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Every week, another 56 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:31.000 fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous killers 57 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:35.520 in true crime history. True Murder with your host, journalist 58 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:50.599 and author Dan Zupanski. Good evening. Robert Picton inherited a 59 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:53.680 pig farm outside of Vancouver worth a million dollars and 60 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:57.280 used his wealth to lure skid row hookers to his farm. 61 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:02.960 This surreal murder investigation the biggest, longest, and costliest in 62 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:07.919 Canadian history. He confessed to murdering forty nine female victims, 63 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:12.120 dismembering and feeding their body parts to his pigs, some 64 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:15.800 of the pork which he supplied to Vancouver area restaurants. 65 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:18.680 The book that we're featuring this evening is Robert Picton, 66 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:22.719 The Pig Farmer Killer, with my special guests ce L Swiney, 67 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:25.439 Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much 68 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:26.599 for agreeing to this interview. 69 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:31.719 Ce L Swiney, heybody, it's a pleasure to be back again. 70 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:33.400 I appreciate you having me on the show. 71 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.599 Well, thank you very much. It's always our pleasure. You 72 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.439 seem to, well not seem to. You absolutely deal with 73 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:47.360 some of the more shocking subject matter, even in true 74 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:54.199 crime standards. Let's get to write to why you wanted 75 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:58.840 to write about. What was it, especially about the Robert 76 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:02.000 Picton story, that compelled you to write this book. 77 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:06.360 I kind of got suggested to write this book by R. J. Parker, 78 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:09.840 who was another true crime author who lives in Canada. 79 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.120 But I was interested in this book a lot, in 80 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:17.480 the whole story because it involved law enforcement and whether 81 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.879 or not they did their jobs and then Canada law 82 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:26.199 and the fact that only one person, Robert Picton, was 83 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:29.879 convicted in this case. And I had a strong sense 84 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:32.160 when I started reading it, especially when I learned about 85 00:04:32.160 --> 00:04:36.160 his brother at this farm and the whole environment, that 86 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:38.759 I felt other people should have been charged or could 87 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:41.879 have been charged. So just the fact that so many 88 00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:46.680 women went missing, the fact that the Vancouver Police Department 89 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:49.680 seemed to drop the ball several times in this case, 90 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:54.360 and just the nature of how Robert Picton was raised 91 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:57.759 and what went on at the Piggy Palace, as they 92 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:02.120 called it, just kind of caught me. So I started 93 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.040 digging into it years ago. I wrote this one about 94 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:06.680 five years ago, I think, and it was my first 95 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:09.439 true crime book, so it's interesting to look at it 96 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:11.519 now and where I've come on my ninth book. So 97 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:15.360 it was a great story, and it kind of keeps 98 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:19.000 coming up. Robert Picton keeps popping up on everybody's radar 99 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:21.439 in the true crime world. So I'm happy I did. 100 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:25.959 It absolutely Now as you do, as you find out 101 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.240 in the book you talk about his early life. There's 102 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:32.879 not incredible about information, but there's some really telling and 103 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:36.839 demonstraive information that you provide. You say, was born in 104 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:39.839 October nineteen forty nine, So tell us about his mother, 105 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:44.800 Louise Wright, and his father, Leonard Picton, and what their 106 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:47.319 life was like and what it was characterized by. 107 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:51.120 Yeah. So the reason why it wasn't a ton of 108 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:54.199 information available for his upbringing, if you will, was his 109 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:57.600 mom and dad had passed away before I started the project, 110 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:02.560 and Robert himself doesn't typically talk a ton about his childhood, 111 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:05.839 but there was enough for me to grab from some 112 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:07.959 of his statements and some of the people involved in 113 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.600 the case when I first wrote the book, and since then, 114 00:06:11.639 --> 00:06:14.639 I've been contacted by twenty or thirty people who were 115 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:17.680 actually involved with the case. And I'm actually considering writing 116 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.959 a second version of this, or maybe an update to it. 117 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:27.040 But his family life was tough, but it turned into 118 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:35.680 more of a situation in which three children were abused physically, emotionally, 119 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:40.000 verbally on a pig farm. And basically his mom, Louise 120 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:43.600 kind of ran the show the dad. His father, Leonard 121 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:46.319 would do kind of the grunt work if he will, 122 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:50.000 on this farm, but Louise made the decisions. She was 123 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:54.360 the one who negotiated with local families and restaurants on 124 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:58.240 their pork products, and she kind of had the iron fist, 125 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:01.560 but she'd get mad and basically do the old Leonard 126 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:06.519 take care of the kid type thing. So Robert was 127 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:09.519 exposed to a lot of violence, but he was also 128 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:12.199 exposed to a lot of death. He saw these animals, 129 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:16.519 these pigs, being slaughtered daily. There's a story that he 130 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:21.120 shared when he was being interviewed after he'd been apprehended 131 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:25.600 about how he used to flee his mom's wrath and 132 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:31.839 his father's wrath by locating large carcasses of hogs on 133 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:33.519 the farm that had been butchered, and he tried to 134 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:37.600 hide in them to try to get away from the abuse, 135 00:07:37.639 --> 00:07:40.160 the punishment, the physical punishment that was going to come 136 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:43.879 his way if his dad got a hold of him. So, 137 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:46.839 you know, he had the upbringing of a rough childhood. 138 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.240 He saw a lot of death, and then there was 139 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:54.480 one kind of incident that he specifically brought up and 140 00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:58.000 he's talked about numerous times, and essentially what happens is 141 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:02.399 he kind of falls for a calf that they had 142 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:04.079 because they had other animals on this farm, but he 143 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:08.439 kind of came attached to a certain calf and made 144 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:10.040 it known to the family that that was kind of 145 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:16.199 like his personal pet, and literally out of kind of 146 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:18.720 spite and out of kind of like trying to show 147 00:08:19.160 --> 00:08:21.600 Robert who was in charge of what life was really 148 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:24.839 all about. His mom had the calf butchered one day 149 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.560 when he was at school before he dropped out, and 150 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:30.680 he came home looking for this calf and his mom 151 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:32.919 said it wanted to go down to the farm, and 152 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:36.600 he responded down there and found his you know, his pet. 153 00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:38.159 Kind of like you and I with our first dog. 154 00:08:38.200 --> 00:08:41.200 If you will hanging butchered and gut it out in 155 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:44.080 the farm, so you know he's exposed to quite a bit. 156 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.159 You also talk about the character of his mother to 157 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:53.559 explain some things on an incident when he was fourteen 158 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:55.600 years old, or in pardon me, a fourteen year old 159 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:58.519 neighborhood boy named Tim Barrett tell us a little bit 160 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.799 about this again another telling story for the environment in 161 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:03.279 which Robert Picton grew up in. 162 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:07.240 Yeah, that was a pretty annother example of kind of 163 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:11.080 how Luis spot She's kind of a no nonsense type 164 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:15.039 of person. But what happened in that incident was his brother, 165 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:20.039 Robert's brother David, was driving down the road from the 166 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:24.720 farm and he ended up striking that child, a younger child. 167 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:28.080 His brother was I believe he was sixteen, and he 168 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:32.559 struck this kid, and you know, he he he panicked 169 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:34.559 and but he stopped the car, he stopped the truck, 170 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:40.159 if you will, and got out and this kid was 171 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:43.080 injured severely. He wasn't dead, but he was he had 172 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:47.559 obvious injuries. So he ran back to his mom and said, hey, Mom, 173 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:49.759 you need to come over here. I need your help. 174 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:53.279 And she literally walked up on the scene, looked at 175 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:57.519 this poor kid who was still breathing, looked at her son, 176 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:01.159 kind of shrugged her shoulders, if you will, rolled the 177 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:06.080 kid over to the embankment and down into to some 178 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:09.840 standing water that was at the opposite end or at 179 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:13.360 the bottom of that embankment, and left the kid to die. 180 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:18.960 And you know, obviously David went in town, tried to 181 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:20.440 cover up what he had done and tried to get 182 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.080 some work done on the truck to replace the bumper 183 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:28.720 in the headlight. And then you know, Robert saw that 184 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:31.840 and the fact that Louise just calmly walked up, saw 185 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:34.519 this child that her son had run over with a 186 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:37.200 truck but was still alive, and calmly dumped him in 187 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.159 the water and left him for dead. You know, it 188 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:44.120 got to David, it got to Robert and their sister, 189 00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:47.120 and you know, it was just another example of how 190 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:51.879 if it didn't involve Louise and her children and her husband, 191 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:56.200 it didn't really connect in her mind, just didn't compute. 192 00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:58.720 She didn't care, So they left that kid for death. 193 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:04.240 Now you talk about his life working at this farm 194 00:11:04.279 --> 00:11:09.039 and that school was basically neglected for the work that 195 00:11:09.399 --> 00:11:13.559 Louise wanted. These her siblings to do so along with 196 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:18.960 his sister Linda, and also David and David and Robert 197 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:25.480 working together. Tell us a little bit about his dating life, 198 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:28.879 We talk about his hygiene, you talk about all the 199 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:31.039 things that made up the kind of person that he 200 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.000 was regarded as. Maybe not so much in his own family, 201 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.600 because you say he had that little thing going on 202 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:42.720 his family, but outside in high school and out in society, 203 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:48.120 how did people look at and regard Robert Picton. 204 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:52.720 Yeah, so, you know, because of his upbringing and because 205 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.039 of working on that pig farm and anybody who has 206 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:57.799 been around I've never worked on a pig farm, but 207 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.240 I've been around them and any farm in general. Role 208 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.039 you work your butt off. It's it's not an easy job, 209 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:07.240 and you're always going to be dirty. And Robert didn't 210 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:09.919 really care for showers. He didn't really care about hygiene. 211 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:17.840 He was picked on, uh, relentlessly in school, and it 212 00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:20.559 was because he was he was perceived as being a 213 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:22.879 little bit slow. And we know that, you know, children 214 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:26.720 can be mean to other children, and even back when 215 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:29.159 Robert was going to school, it was the same thing. 216 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:33.600 And so because of his received kind of slowness, because 217 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:35.519 he's stunk, so bad that he used to tease him 218 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:39.639 and call him stinky and names like that, and the 219 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.600 constant pressure from Louise to basically, you know, you know, 220 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:46.200 hector school, We don't we don't really care about that. 221 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:48.399 We have the farm, you know, That's what we deal 222 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:51.879 with that. We're pig farmers. That's what we do. He 223 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:54.679 didn't have any you know, love life, if you will. 224 00:12:54.919 --> 00:13:00.799 There was one girl who felt terrible for him and 225 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.679 at times would convince him to go take a shower 226 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:07.480 because she just couldn't stand being around him. And sometimes 227 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:10.480 he would kind of hesitate, and he would basically say hey, 228 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:12.919 or she would say, hey, you know, I'm really your 229 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:16.440 only friend, and so if you're not gonna go shower 230 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:18.919 and at least try to clean up some, you know, 231 00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:21.120 I'm not going to spend time around you. And so 232 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:25.039 he would reluctantly go take a shower and try to 233 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:26.919 clean up a little bit. But it was pretty rare. 234 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:31.879 Kid is exposed to violence. He's around killing animals. His 235 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:35.639 mom has no regard for human life other than her 236 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:38.360 own and her children and her husband. He has no 237 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:41.639 friends at school, he's constantly picked on school, and all 238 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:44.240 that stuff combined, he just basically steps out as he 239 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:47.320 drops out of school, and his mom is like, you know, 240 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:49.360 thank god, finally you did it. You know, I need 241 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:50.320 your help out the farm. 242 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:56.360 Now you talk about work on the farm. But eventually 243 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.559 Louise dies and soon after, do you say, Leonard dies, 244 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:05.720 So the Robert and his siblings are left to run 245 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:09.039 this meat producing farm. But after a few years it 246 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:10.919 seems to be too much work. So tell us what 247 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:15.679 happens with the farm, and then tell us about what 248 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:19.320 happens in nineteen ninety four and ninety five that changes 249 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:21.600 their fortunes forever. 250 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:27.440 Yeah. So even though Robert and his sister and brother 251 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:29.600 were you know, quote unquote working on a farm, they 252 00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:33.399 kind of didn't really know the ins and outs, the 253 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:39.200 subtle intricacies and for what it's where Louise and Leonard 254 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:43.120 actually ran a pretty productive farm and were kind of 255 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.120 well respected, but they were also all kind of like misfits, 256 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:51.120 you know. But when they passed, first Louise passed and 257 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:55.720 then Robert's father passed away, the three siblings try to 258 00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:57.720 take over the farm and try to run it, but 259 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:00.559 they just didn't have the experience. Even though they worked 260 00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:02.840 there and lived there, they didn't they didn't know the 261 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:06.039 day in and day out operations that were needed to 262 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.279 keep it successful. They didn't have a lot of communication 263 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:13.120 skills to meet with other families nearby that they would 264 00:15:13.159 --> 00:15:16.559 sell pork with, or the restaurants and stuff. So they 265 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:22.399 had a tough time selling product. But they basically had 266 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:26.799 to shut the pig farm part of it down, and 267 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:31.600 it was it was actually beneficial to the three siblings 268 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:35.559 because their property was quite large, and so they were 269 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:39.279 actually able even though they kind of the pig farm 270 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.080 went under, if you will, they were able to sell 271 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.960 portion of their property and it wasn't even a large portion. 272 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:48.639 I think it was like I think it was like 273 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.639 four or five acres or something like that, but they 274 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:55.360 made a couple million dollars on that transaction, and now 275 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:59.519 things that simple transaction, if you will, or that change 276 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:03.000 in that that family dynamic of mom and dad running 277 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:05.960 the farm, they passed away. Siblings try to run it 278 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.639 and it doesn't work. They're thinking they're down out and 279 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:11.159 they're in real trouble. But investors show up and give 280 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.320 them a couple million dollars for a chunk of their property, 281 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:18.360 and that's when things changed. That's when they went to 282 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:20.480 I think I wrote in the book how they started 283 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:21.960 living high in the hog and I was just kind 284 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:26.559 of playing on words there. But they they went from 285 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:31.799 dirty clothes, hand me down clothes, nothing nice at all 286 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:34.480 because it was work, work, work, and get the farm 287 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:37.919 to keep going, to actually having some stuff. And it 288 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:44.679 kind of changed the mentality of the siblings. And that's 289 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:49.039 when the two brothers, when Robert and David started to 290 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:51.960 convince their sister that they should, you know, live a 291 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:53.960 little kind of live. You know, we have a little 292 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:55.519 bit of money, now, let's live a little bit. And 293 00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:58.559 so they started having these parties, these lavish parties on 294 00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:02.720 the farm, and that's when things dramatically changed for how 295 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.960 Robert Pickton becomes or is involved in being a serial killer. 296 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.960 You talk about they they got a zoning variance for 297 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.240 this property and then called it the Piggy Palace. And 298 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:16.240 now they were putting on big parties. And you say 299 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.160 Hell's Angels was down the road. We're talking about parties 300 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:22.359 up to one thousand people. And they had the ability 301 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:26.000 to do that. And this is where they also sold, 302 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:30.160 as they were already done, pork to their neighbors and 303 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.720 they would provide they had some pigs to provide pork 304 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:35.319 for themselves and for their neighbors. So tell us a 305 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:39.559 little bit about this piggy palace, good time society and 306 00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:46.240 these parties and what eventually happens with this party scene. 307 00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:49.960 Yeah, so Robert now kind of, you know, they've made 308 00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:52.799 some money on this transact transaction, and kind of feels 309 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.200 like he's maybe kind of business savvy, right, and he's 310 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:00.319 made some money and stuff, and so he starts having 311 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:02.799 these lavish parties. And what he's doing is he's going 312 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:05.720 down to an area called the Low Track and he's 313 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:09.720 picking up girls that obviously are interested in him because 314 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:12.799 he's flashing money at them, and he kind of basically 315 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:15.359 gets these girls to come with him. And mind you, 316 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:17.680 he didn't have a lot of In fact, what I 317 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:21.119 can tell, he didn't have any girlfriends up until the 318 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:24.119 point that he came into money, and he really didn't 319 00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:26.200 have girlfriends, but he had women that were interested in 320 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:28.880 him because of his money. So he would go down 321 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.519 and pick up girls for him. His brother would go 322 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:33.599 down and pick up girls in the Low Track area 323 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:36.759 and bring them back to the farm. And at this 324 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:41.440 kind of point, the sister sort of kind of starts 325 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:46.240 divorcing herself from the situation. She's not hugely involved, she's 326 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:49.400 not really into the party scene, and kind of distance 327 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:53.519 herself a little bit from that scene. But you know, 328 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:56.880 I work in law enforcement, and I can tell you 329 00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:59.960 that if you have a location that is away from 330 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.839 the general public, away from police, the you know, watchful eye, 331 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:09.759 and there's money and prostitution and drugs going on, these 332 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:14.599 kinds of locations attract people who live those lifestyles, and 333 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:19.799 so eventually this Piggy Palace Robert thought. He tried his 334 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.920 society angle, which was kind of like a club, and 335 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.359 he kind of fashioned it marginally on what he thought 336 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.400 the Hell's Angels would have a club on. But he 337 00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:31.119 learned quickly that he was not going to be a 338 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:34.119 Hell's Angel. He was not, you know, a biker. He 339 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:36.519 had really nothing to do with that world. But they 340 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:40.599 did associate at some point because he would buy narcotics 341 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:45.359 from them from local hs. But at that point, as 342 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:49.920 this thing starts to grow infester, the neighbors are saying, hey, 343 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:53.559 there's this is too much. You know, there's parties every night, 344 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:58.359 there's screaming. It sounds like women are being assaulted. They're 345 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:02.960 not having fun. There's drunk people walking down the dirt road, 346 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:08.240 there's car crashes. I mean, they start basically complaining to 347 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.440 Robert and his brother and they say, hey, this is guy, 348 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:14.359 to stop. Well they don't and they keep going. Well 349 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.440 it brings the attention of the local law enforcement and 350 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:21.279 so they Vancouver PD responds out there and says, hey, 351 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:25.039 you know, don't make us come out here again. Stop 352 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:27.480 what you're doing. We know you're you know, he's coming 353 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.480 to some money and there's some stuff out here going on. 354 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:35.839 Just keep it down, stop doing it. Eventually the PD leaves. 355 00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:38.559 Robert says okay, but they don't stop, and at some 356 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:43.519 point the city's able to get kind of an ordinance 357 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:46.720 pass if you will, that shuts down the Ticky Palace. 358 00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:49.519 They actually go to court and get an injunction slapped 359 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.799 on the society. And it kind of crushes Robert because 360 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.279 it shuts down this society that he was so high on. 361 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.599 He was so fancy. He felt like he was sophisticated, 362 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.079 and you know, he's got all these women that want him. 363 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.400 He feels loved. Even though it was, you know, fake, 364 00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:08.240 he was it was about drugs and sex, but you 365 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.160 know it crushed them. They crushed them pretty good. But 366 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:15.559 there was no sentiment at that time with the parties, 367 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.279 with the prostitution, drug the monies, all that stuff, that 368 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:21.359 there was any killing going on at the farm. It 369 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:24.599 was just kind of kind of considered like a brothel 370 00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:27.200 of just kind of craziness, you know, and that's why 371 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:29.119 they had that Piggy Palace name for it. 372 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:35.799 Now you talk about the missing women, tell us and 373 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:40.039 we alluded to this police investigation and whether there was 374 00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:46.559 some ineptitude or improper procedural work done by the police 375 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:50.960 during this talk about the investigation that in the task 376 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:56.119 force that's eventually formed, But tell us about how they 377 00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:59.599 do discover or come to think that there may be 378 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:04.079 a serial killer in their midst operating in the Vancouver area. 379 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:09.880 So, you know what does Robert keeps pushing the button 380 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:13.680 of a Vancouver PD. And on the sidebar there are 381 00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:19.599 groups basically family members of women working as prostitutes in 382 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:23.400 the Low Track area where who are basically bombarding the 383 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:27.319 police department saying, I know my family member is a prostitute, 384 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:31.440 but she's missing, she's been missing, it's not her way 385 00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:36.160 she works. And they continually hound Vancouver PD and at 386 00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:38.599 some point I think it was in the maybe the 387 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:43.880 early part of ninety nine. Nineteen ninety nine, Vancouver PD 388 00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:50.720 with RCMP, working on a tip from a guy named 389 00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:54.359 his Cocks, which is a friend of Roberts, and I'll 390 00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:57.160 go into more detail about him in a minute, they 391 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:01.759 formed this task force about these Vancouver missing women and 392 00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:05.160 the number goes from forty to fifty to over two 393 00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:10.640 to three hundred missing women and it causes a huge 394 00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:14.559 concern in the community. Finally, the family members feel like 395 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:16.720 the police department is going to get involved. But you're 396 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:19.799 the time that this started, the time that the women 397 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:24.079 started missing was around nineteen seventy one, and this task 398 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:28.240 force is not put together until nineteen ninety nine. That's 399 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:32.200 a twenty eight year gap. Almost the generation goes by 400 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:36.960 before law enforcement starts to pay attention to this growing 401 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.240