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Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone to a new episode of You're Wrong

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with Molly Hemingway, editor and chief of the Federalist and

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David Arsani, a senior writer at The Washington Examiner. Just

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as a reminder, if you'd like to email the show,

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please do so at radio at the Federalist dot com.

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Speaker 2: Oh, on that note, David, do you think you got

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enough feedback on your request for information about what type

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of gun you should carry? Because I think we got

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enough feedback.

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Speaker 1: I knew that when I threw that in there, I

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was going to get a ton of email because gun owners,

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especially when you ask them about what is the best

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sort of gun for X like concealed carry, as I did,

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they have a lot of opinions.

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Speaker 2: My favorite thing was that the very first email was like,

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what have you done? You just asked for feedback, and

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then there was just a deluge, yeah, of commentary.

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Speaker 3: But it was.

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Speaker 2: Actually interesting, you know, even though it wasn't my question

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to read through what people were recommending.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's funny because they had like back to back

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emails where one person's like, oh, yeah, the Glock forty

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three X is the best, and then the next one's like,

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you shouldn't get that. That's you know.

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Speaker 3: Some people will say to get the glove for you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I actually will go and test out a few

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and see which one I like best, and that's the

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one I shall buy.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's one right answer, but there are

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definitely going to be better. You need to have what

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you feel most comfortable with and that works with your body,

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your handle, like the grip, yeah, I.

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Speaker 1: Think, and then the one you feel most comfortable shooting.

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So let's move on to we should tell people that

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we are. We are taping this on Tuesday night, Election

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Day in a couple of plays in a few places

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in Virginia, in New York City for instance, Pennsylvania. I

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think I have some racist calign has some races. You

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are in actually Los Angeles right now, right?

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Speaker 3: I am.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of Los Angeles. Did

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you know that I love it? Really? Oh? Yeah, you

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told me you have friends out there, don't you.

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Speaker 2: Well, No, I love Los Angeles because it's a beautiful

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city with beautiful weather. The people are beautiful. I mean,

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every time I go in and get a coffee, it's

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like starlits are making my perfectly crafted pistachio latte.

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Speaker 3: Or whatever. It's just like a nice place to be.

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Speaker 1: It's a place where I where I've when I've been there,

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I've just been on highways that have like fifty five

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lanes for hours. Basically, that's what I feel like.

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Speaker 2: So on that note, I will say that the California

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of my youth, I remember it being so pristine. It

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was almost like you couldn't tell the difference between being

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at Disneyland and being on the one oh one. You know,

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it just looked like the same lovely, manicured.

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Speaker 3: Road.

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Speaker 2: And now it's just lots of trash and lots of

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homeless encampments and stuff like that. So that's sad to see.

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What a downer. Anyway, we're taping this, we should pretend

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that this is after the election and just act very

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confident about who we say has won or hasn't won.

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Speaker 1: The one prediction, as you well know, that I've ever made,

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was that I thought Trump would lose in twenty sixteen,

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and since that day I have not even come close

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to I'm not going to be confident. I'm not going

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to pretend I don't know. Do you want to actually

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do you want to throw out some predictions.

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Speaker 2: Kind of I feel like it's only going to make

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people mad at me, but I still feel compelled to

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do it. And my prediction and I am a bit

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of a Debbie Downer at all times for the right,

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but when it comes to election results, I anticipate no

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victories for Republicans.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't know about all the races, but in Virginia,

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I predict Democrats are going to win. Actually, I don't

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want to say it's a prediction.

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Speaker 3: I think he's going to win. Do you think Jay

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Jones is going I think.

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Speaker 1: That's incredibly close. And I in the end, I just

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don't think the messaging got through.

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Speaker 2: So I was thinking about this as he was embraced

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by the highest echelons of the Democrat Party this past weekend.

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Barack Obama was campaigning with him. Abigail Spanberger was fully

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embracing him. And I fear that not only will he win,

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but that he will win in part because he wants people.

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Speaker 3: Like me killed and my children killed.

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Speaker 2: And that's what's so terrifying about It's like, it's not

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just him, It's like that I worry that there's way

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too large a percentage of the population that's very cool

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with public calls for assassination and child murder.

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Speaker 1: I believe that there are a large group of people

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Democrats but Republicans in some sense to who are going

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to vote for their party's candidate for them no matter what,

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like for they'd have to do so. They literally we

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have to shoot someone, right, I'm not even sure that,

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you know, I'm not even sure, and I'm not I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't even hate that in general. But there's something

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where after the Charlie Kirk assassination, when I had that

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realization that there are neighbors of mine that would celebrate

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my getting killed, it just makes it makes it so

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that I don't want.

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Speaker 3: To live here or live there.

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Speaker 1: I get it.

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Speaker 3: I know, I should just calm down about it. I really, I.

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Speaker 1: Think J Jones, Oh my lord, I always forget that

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dude's name. But anyway that he is, it's not just

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those texts. He is literally a criminal himself who got

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you know, got off with this lenient sentence. I mean,

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he does not should not be a g you know.

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So I get that there's partisanship, but this is a

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law enforcement position, you know, I mean for for a

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great state, right.

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Speaker 2: Like, in a way it wouldn't be so bad if

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you were running for as a member of Congress or.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like a delegate at the House or something.

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Speaker 2: Now, I do have still thoughts on what to think

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about what happens, even though I've just said that, I

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think it will be a very good night for Democrats,

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or it will have been, since most people will be

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listening to this on Wednesday. But I think that the

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percentage by which mum Donnie wins actually is kind of significant,

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or whether he has more people voting for him or against.

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Speaker 3: Him, And I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, he might win with sixty percent of the

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vote for all I know, or he might lose. But

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if he doesn't have like a really strong mandate, I

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think that means something in New York because you saw

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how Kathy Hokeel was like following him around like a

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puppy dog, like she's scared about having a primary challenge.

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And if he turns out not to have strong majority

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support in New York, that might make his left wing

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policies seem less exciting to the New York Life legislature

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or governor. So that might sound like cope, but I

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actually think it kind of does matter a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me go back to Virginia just from my

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perspective for a second. So no, it's okay, Earl Sears.

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I just don't think that she had ran a very

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compelling campaign. I have to be honest, I just don't

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think she was a great candidate. Watch her win and

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I'll look like an idiot. But it just doesn't seem

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like she could really she had this one great moment

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where she asked Spanberger why she didn't say anything about

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those texts of Jay Jones. Other than that, I can't

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really think of a great moment in her campaign. And

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I'm not really even blaming her. I just, you know,

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I just don't think I just don't think she was

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that effective. And maybe that's a problem with the Virginia

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Democrats Republicans. I don't know enough about the internal politics

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of Virginia to say. As far as mom, Donnie, I

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think you're exactly right. I feel like there is I

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could be wrong again, thinks because we're going to be

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people going to be, you know, dunking on us.

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Speaker 3: When we're on it was by forty points, it'll be like, oh,

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we know.

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Speaker 1: It feels like there is a little that that race

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has closed a little. It's very difficult to tell.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I want to say something about that.

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Speaker 2: People talk about this, and I particularly notice it during

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big national elections. They'll do polls in like a month

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out Trump is way down, but by election day he's

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way up, and people forget that what matters is the

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day you voted. Like, yeah, maybe maybe people are kind

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of souring on Mom, Donnie. I have no idea. I

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don't really trust boles that much anyway, but let's say

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they are. Who cares if they voted a month ago

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for him?

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like people have been voting

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for how long? For a while, that's true.

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Speaker 1: And I actually, even as I was saying closing in

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and stuff like, I don't I hate when pollsters say,

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like the race is getting closer, Actually no one has

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had when no one votes, it's not getting closer or

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father it has no one has voted, right, It's just

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I just it's it's an It's a misleading way to

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speak about something because first of all, we don't need

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to trust the polls anyway. What I mean is it

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feels like more as you get closer to election, more

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and more people pay attention and maybe what they were

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learning about Mom Donnie they're not liking. Obviously, I am

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against early voting. It's just a joke. But I just

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think it's not How can I say this. I think

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it's a big deal because he's been normalized by national Democrats.

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I don't think it's a big deal that he won

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New York. He's the Democratic Party candidate. He's a socialist,

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AOC is a socialist. Shee won in a district in

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one of the New York City districts. And there are

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other wacky mayors out there. There's a guy running in Minneapolis, right,

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isn't he a socialist as well? This Somalian guy Somali.

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So I don't know how big a deal it is.

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What makes me interested in the race is that a

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lot of left wing commentators and magazines have now essentially

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made the argument that he is the template for how

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everyone should be running in the country, which I find

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very humorous because Spamberg or Abigail Spamberger is a leftist

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and portrays herself as a moderate, and she's probably going

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to win a state that is you know, that's all

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kinds of.

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Speaker 3: It currently has a Republican governor.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, or like I said last week, I think Fetterman.

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Fetterman is very popular in Pennsylvania and he rejects socialism.

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Pennsylvania's the state that Donald Trump won. Why isn't that that?

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I mean, Fetterman can't be the template. But you know

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what I mean, why can't this more moderate type of

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Democrat be the template? I don't know, So I think

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maybe the Democrats are fooling themselves a little with Mom Donnie.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's also the fact that a lot of people

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are voting for Mom Donnie, who he's appealing to people

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that it is surprising for some you know, I found

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like forty percent of Jews in New York are voting

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for Mom Donnie. So if you can pull forty percent

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of Jews with is views like, why not be that extreme?

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Speaker 1: I think we have to put that in context. I

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thought maybe I mentioned this last week, But the context

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is this, it's usually ninety percent of Jews voting for Democrats.

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A B. Yeah, you know a lot of Jewish people

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who are incredibly secularized. Some of them are beyond secularized.

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They have a new religion called socialism. I bet you

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of the forty percent of Jews, and we'll see what

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the number turns out, I've seen polls that show him

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pulling in fewer than from that. If you're more religious,

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you are probably the less inclined you are to vote

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for him. The more orthodox you are, the less inclined

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your vote for him. And those people take their Judaism

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a lot more seriously than others.

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Speaker 2: There's this morbid thing that I saw from the Babylon

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b where it said New York's elderly Jews torn between

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man who would kill them for being Jewish and man

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who would kill them for being elderly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and that's another thing think about. There is

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no organ exactly.

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Speaker 2: Wait, that's something that is important context.

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Speaker 3: Yes, go on, Sorry, I mean.

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Speaker 1: I mean Cuomo is a failed, corrupt governor of the

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state that basically sent old people to their debts, and

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isn't you know terrible was a terrible governor. And then

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you have this, you know, Curtis Sliwa, who has been

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around forever. He's just a publicity hound. He's not a

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serious person. I think though, that if he dropped out,

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everyone's like, oh, you know, he's he's getting the socialist selected.

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I'm not sure about that. I think the vote for

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him is like a libertarian vote, it's a protest vote.

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Libertarians don't all of a sudden vote Republican when you

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get rid of the libertarian candidate. It's not that simple.

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So even when Eric Adams dropped out, Mamdanie's total went

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up a little. Like, I just think people are confused.

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Most voters aren't as ideological. So yep, okay, we'll see

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those are the two. Are there any other important races?

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Speaker 4: Prop?

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Speaker 3: Sixty.

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Speaker 2: I assume we'll pass here in California with the party

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dynamics being what they are out here to increase the

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number of Democrat districts. It's worth remembering that when Texas

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wanted to do some mid census redistricting, the left said

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that that was the most terrific thing you know, in

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the history of mankind. And yet you have these Democrat

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states where the districts greatly already preference Democrats. There's like,

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not much you can do to improve it. And even

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in California, they're like, well, what if we did a

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little bit more just to squeeze out a few more votes.

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So that's happening, and I guess interesting mayoral races that

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will be We'll have to see.

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Speaker 1: So Okay, well we'll see how we did next week.

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Speaker 3: Well, did we have we talk about that show?

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Speaker 2: It's like, not Bob Odenkirk, but who's the other guy

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that was always his.

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Speaker 1: Partner, mister show, David Cross?

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Speaker 3: Maybe David Cross.

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Speaker 2: And he's doing this thing it's called like the pre

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tape call in show. He's very frustrated because people keep

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calling in to talk about the topic that's airing while

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they're pre taping next week's show, which is what they're

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supposed to.

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Speaker 3: Call in for.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like we did a little bit of

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that with the pre tape call in the post election

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analysis of an election that technically is going on while

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we're taping.

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Speaker 1: We'll have to u on, you know, when we have

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national election bitterms, we'll have to alter our schedule maybe

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and do it afterwards or have a special episode, yeah,

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or live episode.

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Speaker 4: Talking heads are preaching that you're entitled to your social

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security but are you the watch Doout on Wall Street

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podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day Chris helps unpack the

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connection between politics and the economy and how it affects

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your wallet. Two Supreme Board decisions have said condors can

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cancel social Security tomorrow and you can get nothing. You

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may want to believe the Social Security myth, but you're

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not entitled to it. Whether it's happening in DC or

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down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially.

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Speaker 1: Be informed.

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Speaker 4: Check out the Watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with

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Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So former Vice President Dick Cheney passed away. I

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believe he was eighty four years old. Now, listen. I

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think that his reputation has taken an immense beating over

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the years, and he is disliked, deeply disliked. I think

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by a lot of people who are in power now

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i'd call them more realist or paleo cons or whatever

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you want to call them. Dick Cheney is very unpopular

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with them. I know, I am less, as you might imagine,

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I am less. You know, I've never was a huge

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fan of Dick Cheney, but I don't have this anger

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towards him and stuff. I think that the entire Bush

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administration deserves discredit for what happened there. I don't think

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it's one person or the other. I think Dick Cheney

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was actually a pretty impressive man overall his whole career

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when you look at it, you know, I think he

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was the youngest chief of staff maybe ever, I'm not

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sure if that still holds for in the Ford administration.

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I think he's a pretty impressive guy in many ways

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and a smart man. And I think he also kind

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of redefined the vice presidency for a while as not

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a person who was waiting in the wings, but a

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person who was running, helping run things, who brought some

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use the word gravitas, you know. I was going to

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say then Obama had Biden for the same reason, But

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did Biden really bring any gravitas? I don't think so.

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I think Dick Cheney was a lot smarter man than

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Joe Biden. Anyway, he was a big part, you know,

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for younger people might not know. He was just a

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really big part of American politics for a pretty long time,

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and he was definitely the most influential probably vice president,

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you know, in a long time. So I don't know

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what are your thoughts on Dick Cheney as well.

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Speaker 2: I'm just, you know, feel sad for his family and

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loved ones. He had had heart trouble for a long time,

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but that art kept on ticking, which you know, I'm

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sure his family really appreciated. And when someone dies, pretty

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much all I think about is how sad his loved ones,

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his friends and family are. And I, as you might imagine,

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you know, did not support his policies. But he never

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made me crazy, like the left was made crazy by

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Dick Cheney when he was prosecuting the Iraq War, and

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I was opposed to that war, but he still didn't.

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Not only did he not make me crazy, I kind

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of like found him almost likable.

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Speaker 3: I remember.

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Speaker 2: My mom had liked him at the time. She's a

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pretty typical Republican type person. Now she definitely doesn't like

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him because her views have changed.

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Speaker 3: I shouldn't say that she doesn't like him.

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Speaker 2: She's disappointed in him, and her views on his foreign

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policy have changed in twenty years. It's okay to change

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your views. But she really liked him at the time.

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And I'd found this headshot of him or a picture

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of him, and I had someone pretend to sign it

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with an expletive. Oh, because he'd like set a cuss

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word on the floor of the like at the State

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of the Union or something he'd told someone to f

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off or something.

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Speaker 1: Oh, right.

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Speaker 2: I had like a friend fake sign it to Carolyn

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with that phrase, and she's a pastor's wife, so it

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was it was meant as a joke, and she took.

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Speaker 3: It very appropriately. She thought it was funny.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, dear Carolyn blankety blank.

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Speaker 3: But you know, he his legacy is not great.

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Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is you're absolutely right

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that he played this outsize role in the George W.

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Bush administration. He was tasked with finding a vice president.

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He determined that he would be the right person for it,

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and he might have been right, you know, in terms

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of winning the election. And then he was the person

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who kind of led the effort to do the Iraq War,

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and that ended up not just tarnishing George W. Bush's legacy,

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but it hurt the Republican Party. That foreign policy became

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quite toxic for the Republican Party. And so he was

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this like big Republican from Wyoming sort of. And then

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in the end he's campaigning for Kamala Harris and renouncing

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most conservative positions. And so i'd seen someone tweet, you know,

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rest in peace to Democrat activist Dick Cheney because he

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campaigned for the Democrats last two cycles. But I'm okay

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with him having made that switch, and I, you know,

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hope he rests in peace.

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Speaker 1: Well, it is funny that you brought up his I'm sorry,

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it is not funny in like a haha way, but

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you brought up his heart trouble because I remember everyone

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thinking he was going to just drop out of a

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heart attack at any minute throughout his vice presidency. His

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first heart attack at in nineteen seventy eighty was thirty

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seven years old. He had them in eighty four, eighty eight,

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two thousand, twenty ten or arrested.

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Speaker 3: For attempted manslaughter.

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Speaker 2: Just kidding, I'm joking, but I had to get the

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reference to him shooting someone.

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Speaker 1: One said he's the only vice president who could shoot someone,

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and then the person who she shot apologized that it happened.

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It's not funny, but.

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Speaker 2: Imagine being in the White House the day that they

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that They're like, okay, we have to deal with the

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fact the VP just accidentally shot someone.

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Speaker 1: In them Yes, accidentally shot someone. Sorry, accidentally. But what's

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funny is that he was perhaps the most hated person

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in that administration by the left, and then once you

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know he didn't like Trump, it is what it is,

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and once he didn't all of a sudden, you like,

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even now they talk about him and stress that part

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of his life as being the most important, when really

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I didn't. I know that he was anti Trump, but

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I didn't see him around a ton his his his

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time as vice president, his time in the Ford White

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House were hugely important compared to his you know, his

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activism against against I.

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Speaker 2: Saw a friend said something, who does not like Dick

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Cheney and never did, but he said, it's nice that

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he took an interest in his daughter's activities. So like

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as his daughter was leading the never Trump hysteria, he

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just took an interest in you know, he was supporting

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his daughter.

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Speaker 1: Now he has two daughters, right, he has another daughter.

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I interviewed the other daughter once when I was in Denver.

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She might I don't know what she was doing there anyway,

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but she seemed very nice. I never met with Cheney.

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I did see Dick Cheney speak a few times during

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the two thousands.

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Speaker 2: Was he also because his other daughter was is gay?

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He was an early gay rights activist for the Republicans too,

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But with that back when he was a.

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Speaker 1: Republic he was his pro gay marriage before Barack Obama's

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pro gay marriage. I think I'd like to turn to.

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Speaker 2: We talk about the Trump wanting to do the filibuster

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end really quickly.

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Speaker 1: Sure, obviously, I think I honestly believe this. I think

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the filibuster right now is one of the only tools

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left preserving some sort of federalism. Right you're going to

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just have if you just need a bare majority, you're

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just going to have one giant bill after the next

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passing I get by people of clustrulls.

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Speaker 3: That is, you wouldn't like.

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Speaker 2: It would be one thing if Republicans would use the

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end of the filibuster to fix a bunch of stuff

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they wouldn't like, they wouldn't do anything with it. But

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then when Democrats came in, they would probably use it

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to pack the Supreme Court or do other things they're

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not able to do. And so I think of the

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many arguments against it, it's like I don't see Republicans

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even using it for good for a short period of time.

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I just think they would do nothing with it.

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Speaker 1: I've always thought this. I mean, if you think about

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concerns see.

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Speaker 2: The government open, like get rid of the filibuster so

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you can keep the government open.

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Speaker 1: No, that's another thing. So you're going to get rid

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of the filibuster to keep the government open, when though

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Democrats to put themselves in a terrible spot. In my

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opinion right now, it doesn't make any sense but as

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a political matter. But I think Conservatives suffer from this problem.

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If you think about conservatism in the old in the

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in the Reaganite sense, you know, or in the smaller

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government sense, is that Republicans have far fewer big giant

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bills to pay, like. They just don't have the kind

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of big giant ideas thankfully the Democrats have. So I

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think they're always at a loss. I've seen I've seen

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people argue this Republicans should get rid of it and

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then just jam through right now a whole slew of

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bills that are going to make put Democrats on their

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heels for you know, a decade. It doesn't work that way.

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If they regain power, they will overturn those bills one

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after the next. These bills aren't in perpetuity. You can

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overturn existing law pretty easily, right, So I just think

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it's a big mistake.

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Speaker 2: So, like I hate the idea, I understand that this

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is not like a constitutional requirement decision people can make

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about how they order things, just like having a Supreme

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Court with nine members isn't required by the constitution. But

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these are things that have turned out to be good

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for governance and the idea. The only barrier against insanity

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right now, as you point out, is that we have

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this filibuster and you can still do an actual verbal

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filibuster if you want, or you know you they don't

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even use that hardly any or.

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Speaker 1: They do for no like no like for reasons.

475
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, never makes sense.

476
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 2: But the only good thing about the stupidity of this

477
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:42,039
push for ending the filibuster is that it forces the

478
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,319
media to be honest about who is causing the shutdown.

479
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:54,200
Forces people to understand that Democrats are forcing this. Like

480
00:24:54,319 --> 00:24:55,920
if you have to explain it, you have to, you

481
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:56,640
have to explain it.

482
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: Then you have to.

483
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,200
Speaker 2: Then it means that even though Republicans have the majority,

484
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,200
they don't have enough of a majority to keep the

485
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:02,920
government open.

486
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,839
Speaker 1: It's it's I just remember the coverage of Republican instigated

487
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,839
shutdowns Hill. It's just like the nihilists who don't care,

488
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,799
you know, but I think it's a completely legitimate form

489
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,119
of political Uh. You know, strategy to shut to have

490
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,559
a shutdown, you want to block something that's up to you.

491
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,440
But this idea that Democrats aren't doing it is nuts.

492
00:25:26,599 --> 00:25:28,480
And they keep saying, who runs the House and the

493
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:31,119
Senate and the president, how could we shut down the government? Well,

494
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,880
you're doing it just like Republicans did because they tried

495
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,839
to you know, you know, extract something. So when you know,

496
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,759
I just wonder though, how much of that message messaging

497
00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:44,480
is getting through the voters because their icy polls where

498
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,519
they're blame blame split, which honestly is very good for

499
00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:53,119
Republicans because typically Republicans are blamed at a much higher level.

500
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:57,000
But here's the thing. I don't think that it's hurting

501
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,160
Republicans now. I don't think it's going to hurt them

502
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,279
in the midterms. And at some point Democrats are going

503
00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:07,119
to have to give in. So when Donald Trump says

504
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,799
let's get rid of the filibuster, it almost sounds like

505
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,359
he feels like they are the pressures on them and

506
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,000
that they have to do something to fix us, And

507
00:26:16,039 --> 00:26:24,839
I think that undermines their overall argument. Maybe we want

508
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,480
to talk about Comy a little, right.

509
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:27,079
Speaker 3: I do.

510
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:34,519
Speaker 2: So Comy was indicted for lyne to Congress, right, and

511
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,400
two charges. Yeah, I think obstruction. Maybe I'm so sorry

512
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,680
that I don't know I need to. I'm very much

513
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,200
wanting to do my deep dive, but I have a

514
00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:45,640
few other things that are preventing me from doing that.

515
00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:49,240
But he wants the charges dismissed for a variety of reasons,

516
00:26:49,319 --> 00:26:54,039
and so the government put out a lot more evidence

517
00:26:54,079 --> 00:26:58,559
than you normally would see at this point in a prosecution,

518
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:05,319
and it shows that Komy was, you know, openly willing

519
00:27:05,519 --> 00:27:11,240
engaged in leak operations about the DJ And I know

520
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:14,359
how frustrating it is for people that thus far, basically

521
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,240
no one has been held accountable for the horrific coup

522
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,799
attempt of the first russiacclusion hoax, and other nefarious activity

523
00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:25,079
from deep state actors. But you and I've spoken before,

524
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,559
David about the importance of just the truth coming to

525
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,079
light too, and I appreciate it when I know what's

526
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,799
going on, and I feel like I understand things so

527
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,640
much better now, precisely the means by which bad actors

528
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,759
in the media used other people to push things they

529
00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:45,000
had to know were lize and so seeing these email

530
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:49,480
communications where Komy by the way, the judge overseeing the

531
00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:52,000
trial I think literally used to work for Komy. I'm like,

532
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,599
there's so many conflicts of you know, he's got his

533
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,200
legal team or all people that were possibly going to

534
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,960
be called to testify in their own participation in the leagues.

535
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:08,000
But anyway to see how Comy used his one of

536
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,319
his best friends to be a conduit who would work

537
00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:16,319
with broadcast in print media as one of these like

538
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,759
government officials. He had like a quasi governmental position, so

539
00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:23,039
he could have this air of authority, and then Komy

540
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,519
would tell him what to tell people, and then so

541
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,799
Comy could be like, well, I never leaked, just talking.

542
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,039
He made this guy like kind of a legal advisor,

543
00:28:32,079 --> 00:28:34,400
so it was all protected. And just seeing how that

544
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,599
works and how Michael Schmidt won a Pulitzer for being

545
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:42,319
a stooge of these very bad people, very evil people

546
00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:45,839
who should be in jail. I like knowing about it.

547
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:49,279
Knowing is a big part of the battle. So I'm

548
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:51,680
a little depressing. And who knows, Like maybe he really

549
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,960
will be convicted, that's also a possibility, but just knowing

550
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,279
he's guilty from the evidence that we've had this far,

551
00:28:58,599 --> 00:28:59,759
not in a court of you know, not in a

552
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,599
court of law, but in what we can read with

553
00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:02,119
our own eyes.

554
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 3: It's just great.

555
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,039
Speaker 1: It's like we needed for this historical record. I want

556
00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:07,880
to know what went on and why it went on.

557
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,599
It's obviously something we should know about. It's a sad

558
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,640
thing that we need to learn through courts what's going on.

559
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:17,160
They should have been congressional true congressional hearings on all

560
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:18,839
of us, like they had for Watergate for.

561
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: Instance, you know, related to this, though there were good

562
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,359
people in Congress who, using their constitutional authority, were asking

563
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,839
for information, and people at DOJ were obstructing those investigations,

564
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,359
many people at DOJ. But one of the things that's

565
00:29:32,359 --> 00:29:35,839
interesting about these handwritten notes from Komy and other communications

566
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,160
from his private email, his rhine hold maybe your private

567
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:47,720
email account, are that they were found in these you know,

568
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,440
the common like burn bags in a room where normally

569
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,400
things would be set to burn, but they weren't. Just

570
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,359
kind of wondering like how'd they get there? And were

571
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,400
there good actors in the FBI who were hoping that

572
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,680
a good person would find them, you know, like I

573
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:01,200
don't know.

574
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: Just interesting, yeah, I mean, in that kind of environment,

575
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,279
even if you're a good person, it's probably very hard

576
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:12,519
to do the right thing. You know, you essentially have

577
00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:16,599
to be a whistleblower or or not. Okay, so now

578
00:30:16,839 --> 00:30:21,880
let's turn to a less fun topic and talk about

579
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:27,039
what happened with Tucker Carlson, Nick Quintas, Kevin Roberts at

580
00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:29,920
the Heritage Foundation. It's a big story on the right, right,

581
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,400
I mean, it's it's it's I think an important one.

582
00:30:33,039 --> 00:30:35,440
I never thought i'd say this, thinking back to twenty sixteen,

583
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,559
but I think Trump is a moderating force on the

584
00:30:37,599 --> 00:30:40,000
GOP in a way, right, So I think that these

585
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:41,240
just that he's.

586
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 2: He's like a blanket that covers a lot of debates

587
00:30:43,519 --> 00:30:45,240
that will happen once he's gone.

588
00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: Right, So I don't think it's any secret what I

589
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,400
think about Tucker Carlson. He had on Nick Quentas no

590
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:53,759
secret that I think that that was going to happen.

591
00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:58,279
Nick Fuentes is a just a horrible person, a provocateur

592
00:30:59,319 --> 00:31:03,960
in my view. Tucker had him on to to make

593
00:31:04,039 --> 00:31:06,039
him seem far more moderate than he was, to bring

594
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,480
him into the fold, to bring his people into the fold.

595
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,799
I think it was disgusting. And then Kevin Roberts came

596
00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:15,519
out with this video. I happened to be on Twitter

597
00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:18,839
when he like pushed send and I saw it immediately,

598
00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:23,359
and which says I'm on Twitter too often, I think.

599
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,559
But so I immediately saw it, and I was I

600
00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:27,799
thought it was reprehensible, but I was taken aback by

601
00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:29,559
it in the sense like I'm like, why is he

602
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,920
doing why is he even doing this? Like what's the

603
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:34,519
why is he doing this? And there was a you know,

604
00:31:34,559 --> 00:31:36,119
I think that's fair to say there was a pretty

605
00:31:36,119 --> 00:31:40,480
big blowback to it from from certain people, myself included.

606
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,960
I wrote a long piece on the first free expression

607
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,839
parts of it. I think people are gaslighting me when

608
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,839
I criticize all of this. Anyway. I found a lot

609
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,039
wrong with his statement, starting with the beginning part, where

610
00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:58,640
there's a bunch of red herrings and intimations that people

611
00:31:59,759 --> 00:32:02,440
who or pro Israel put America second and all of

612
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,319
that without giving any specific people or instances of that,

613
00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:08,160
which I think is very wrong. And then I think

614
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,759
it's also a red herring to talk about cancelation of

615
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:15,559
Nick Fuentes and he says we have to meet these

616
00:32:15,599 --> 00:32:18,480
people and the realm of ideas and debate them. Well,

617
00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:21,079
you know what, I think the debate over Hitler is cool.

618
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:23,640
I thought we tabled that. I thought we'd moved on.

619
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,960
I don't feel like I should have to debate that again,

620
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,519
and if I do something seriously wrong with this country.

621
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: So I remember this piece I wrote in twenty sixteen

622
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,319
that was called something like when it comes to Donald Trump,

623
00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:41,640
I hate everyone, and it was about how I hated

624
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,279
Donald Trump, and I hated people who loved Donald Trump,

625
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:48,039
and I hated people who hated Donald Trump, and I

626
00:32:48,079 --> 00:32:49,880
hated the media. Like I just kind of went through

627
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,440
everybody and everyone was annoying me. And that is very,

628
00:32:54,359 --> 00:32:57,759
very much how I feel this week with this story,

629
00:32:57,839 --> 00:33:01,599
Like I hate everything up it and I don't even

630
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:07,519
know totally where to begin. So like, there's so much

631
00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:10,000
we could talk about, so let's just like, let's just like,

632
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,720
you know, are there any like particular angles that you

633
00:33:14,839 --> 00:33:19,000
are frustrated by or that you're upset by?

634
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: Well, I, yeah, well I believe that there's a problem

635
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,599
on the right. I wouldn't even call them people on

636
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,319
the right, but obviously there are a lot of people

637
00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:34,440
who are drawn to very ugly ideas and ugly people.

638
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,559
I have to say this though, it's like a lot

639
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:39,960
of people, if you like Nick Fuentis, I forgot. I

640
00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:42,960
wish I could credit the writer. You're talking about a

641
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,680
bunch of people who are really excited by seeing moral pornography.

642
00:33:48,839 --> 00:33:52,440
It's fun to say Hitler's great, Like you really pissed

643
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,319
the boomers off, right, Like, I don't know how serious

644
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,119
all that is, but it's not something that serious people

645
00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:03,119
to talk about in a serious way. So when when

646
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,920
when Kevin Roberts is like, don't cancel him, you know,

647
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,400
don't cancel him, don't can't It's what do you mean.

648
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,119
Speaker 3: Don't cancel him? Who's him?

649
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,599
Speaker 1: Nick Clentis, That's exactly what Kevin Roberts said.

650
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:20,079
Speaker 2: No, that's not he was talking about Tucker. So let's

651
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:22,920
just kind of like start at the beginning.

652
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 3: So the thing.

653
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not sure if I'm proud of this

654
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,920
or not. But prior to last week, I had successfully

655
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,119
avoided ever having to listen to Nick Flintees at all.

656
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:41,639
And when this became a huge thing, I watched the

657
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:43,920
Tucker Carlson interview.

658
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,039
Speaker 3: Did you watch it?

659
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:46,119
Speaker 1: Yes?

660
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:47,599
Speaker 3: Okay, so.

661
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,159
Speaker 2: I came out of it. I obviously had a negative view.

662
00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:59,079
I am not a supporter of Nick Flentis or his views.

663
00:34:59,079 --> 00:35:01,800
So I already had an negative view going in, but

664
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,679
I came out of that interview with a more negative

665
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,000
view of him. I assume you did too, if it's

666
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,719
possible to have a more negative view.

667
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,519
Speaker 1: I had a more negative view of Tucker, not Flentis,

668
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:16,199
because I've looked at what Quentis has said. Yeah, and

669
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,360
I realized that, first of all, I need to correct you,

670
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,199
and I do this very with very with respect. Okay,

671
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,960
I have the transcript of Kevin Roberts's initial statement, and

672
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:29,559
here is, verbatim quote. I disagree with and even the

673
00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:33,760
poor things Nick Quentas says, but canceling him is not

674
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:34,599
the answer.

675
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:35,119
Speaker 3: Okay.

676
00:35:35,199 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: Sorry, when we disagree with the person thoughts and opinions,

677
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,000
or challenge our ideas, debate, et cetera, et cetera. So

678
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:45,119
for me, that was incredibly ridiculous because he deserve worse

679
00:35:45,159 --> 00:35:47,440
than Jimmy Kimmel, or does he deserve worse?

680
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go back to what I just said.

681
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 2: Though, So, like I had my first encounter at length

682
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,679
with Nick Flentis making a like he had the floor

683
00:35:59,119 --> 00:36:01,960
to make the case for himself and I came out

684
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,039
with a more negative view of him. I mean to

685
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:08,280
the point that, like, one of the things that I

686
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,400
saw by watching the interview was that one of the

687
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,679
things people say is Tucker did not push back at all,

688
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:16,599
and that's just not true.

689
00:36:17,039 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: Barely. That's not push That is barely barely. But that's

690
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,239
not the point. The point is this, he never asked

691
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,119
him about the real problems with Nick. Foind this. Now,

692
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,519
I don't want to say these words on this show,

693
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:34,400
But when a guy says that Jews are responsible for

694
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,119
every war in the world and they should be deported

695
00:36:36,199 --> 00:36:39,719
or executed, Tucker doesn't bring that up. When he says

696
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,960
women are whrrores and stupid dirty b words who want

697
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,719
to be raped and having the and having men beat

698
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,440
the s out of them, he doesn't ask him about that.

699
00:36:49,559 --> 00:36:54,480
He moderates the guy's views by pushing back on things

700
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:57,159
that are making him seem like he's kind of wacky

701
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,760
and he has some weird opinions, but not the real

702
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,760
opinions that he has on his show all the time.

703
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:08,159
Speaker 2: So that's in so far as those things were said,

704
00:37:08,599 --> 00:37:11,199
like I'd had in those kinds of encounters with Nick,

705
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:15,039
pointis just enough to know that, like, no matter what

706
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:18,519
the context is there, it's not a good situation. Although

707
00:37:18,559 --> 00:37:22,320
it's also true that sometimes people take these little snippets

708
00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:29,840
and sometimes the context actually is significant somehow. Whereas hearing

709
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,159
him speak it was a weird thing, but just bear

710
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:36,760
with me here. Hearing him speak without someone shouting like

711
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,400
you're a Nazi and you're crazy, for me was more

712
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:45,159
devastating to encounter that, Like he had the ability to

713
00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:47,119
make a case for himself. I think he was trying

714
00:37:47,159 --> 00:37:50,039
to moderate and I'd heard from someone else that he's

715
00:37:50,119 --> 00:37:52,000
been on a recent tour of sort of like trying

716
00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:56,000
to moderate some of his hard edges, and it didn't

717
00:37:56,079 --> 00:38:00,199
really work well for him. And Tucker pushed back, like

718
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:05,480
specifically on the issue of blood guilt, on the issue

719
00:38:05,599 --> 00:38:08,480
of whether we live in a pluralistic society or not,

720
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:11,079
and whether his views are compatible with living in a

721
00:38:11,079 --> 00:38:15,280
pluralistic society. And then another thing that you don't hear

722
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,599
people talking about right now, but.

723
00:38:19,039 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 3: What he did to reveal.

724
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: Nick Flantis as someone who has never had the touch

725
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:33,000
of a woman was humiliating, I think, and it was subtle.

726
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,239
It was almost like fatherly in a way, and so

727
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,079
I agree with you that he if he's going to

728
00:38:41,119 --> 00:38:44,559
have this guy on, which I would not recommend, but

729
00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:47,440
if he's going to do it, he should push back

730
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:49,440
much more than he did.

731
00:38:50,199 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 3: But I also saw in it.

732
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 2: Him trying to get this guy to not have odious views.

733
00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:02,800
And I'm not sure if that's the worst thing or

734
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,559
if it should have the reaction that we have seen

735
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:09,239
to it.

736
00:39:10,559 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 1: I guess I just We're just going to have to

737
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,960
disagree on what Tucker's goal is here, even if he

738
00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:19,280
by some chance made Nick Fuentes can only make himself

739
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:20,880
look stupid. But that's not the point.

740
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,679
Speaker 3: He's just what He gave him an opportunity to do that,

741
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:24,320
and he did.

742
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,079
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, he gave him an opportunity to

743
00:39:28,119 --> 00:39:33,960
seem less of a terrible person than he is. And listen,

744
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,960
this is but I take this, I view it holistically. Okay, Yeah,

745
00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:43,559
Tucker has eighty ninety percent of his guests are obsessed

746
00:39:43,559 --> 00:39:48,400
about one thing, Israel and making American Jews look like

747
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,199
they are trying to undermine America and send us into war.

748
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,239
And he is not an idiot. You don't interview Nick

749
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,360
fuents with that. First of all, let's talk about this.

750
00:39:56,679 --> 00:40:00,480
When he interviewed Ted Cruz, I saw his hyper antic

751
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:04,000
filibustering when he didn't like someone and when he likes someone.

752
00:40:04,039 --> 00:40:06,639
There's a difference. Now who deserves more respect and a

753
00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:10,559
debate Ted Cruz or flent Tests and who does Tucker

754
00:40:10,599 --> 00:40:13,599
show more respect to? Ted Cruz or flent Tests? That

755
00:40:13,679 --> 00:40:15,760
says something about him.

756
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,320
Speaker 2: So like all of his interviews, all of Tucker's interviews

757
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,239
have been so friendly, and as long as all.

758
00:40:23,039 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 3: Of them more friendly, you could say like, oh, this

759
00:40:25,519 --> 00:40:26,360
is just his approach.

760
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,599
Speaker 2: He wants to have conversations with people you're not supposed

761
00:40:28,599 --> 00:40:30,800
to have conversations with and just see where they go.

762
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,960
The Ted Cruz one was so like back to an

763
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,159
old style of Tuker interview where he might push back more.

764
00:40:38,159 --> 00:40:41,079
And it also showed he was capable of doing that.

765
00:40:41,079 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: That'd be great for if he did that with every

766
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:43,639
interview he had.

767
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 3: Whatever, I just I'm just not sure, like there have

768
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,440
been ways. So I just said this like I would not.

769
00:40:55,119 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 2: Have a Nick Fuentas on a show if I had

770
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,679
the If I had that show, I don't think that's

771
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,639
like great and I would not have have failed to

772
00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:09,519
push back. But I also heard people saying things that

773
00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:13,360
did make me feel concerned, like where they say you

774
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:19,559
shouldn't quote unquote platform this person. I don't like that language.

775
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:24,360
That's language of the left. Well, first off, he already.

776
00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 3: Has the platform. He already has millions of followers, So like,

777
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:27,239
I don't like.

778
00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 1: The word platform because it's kind of obnoxious. But I hear.

779
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:33,400
But you're saying you wouldn't do it, but yet you don't.

780
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,440
You're literally saying what the people you're saying you don't

781
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,079
like hearing are saying that you wouldn't platform him.

782
00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 3: I said I would not, Yes, why.

783
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,039
Speaker 2: Or maybe a better way to say it is, if

784
00:41:48,079 --> 00:41:49,960
I did it, I would conduct it differently.

785
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 3: But I'm a different person too.

786
00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 2: And I do think that a lot of the pushback

787
00:41:56,039 --> 00:41:59,199
on this has has you just said you think it's

788
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,920
gaslighting to talk about freedom of expression or.

789
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 1: What would you go into that?

790
00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think the question is partly too, And

791
00:42:07,679 --> 00:42:10,320
I think this is a I think this is a

792
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,800
good question because I'm not one hundred percent sure what

793
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:17,480
the answer is. The standards that people have for journalists

794
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,800
on who they should talk to are different than the

795
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:27,880
standards people have for thought leaders, right and as a journalist,

796
00:42:28,559 --> 00:42:30,719
he should be able to talk to anybody he wants to.

797
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 3: Right.

798
00:42:32,559 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 2: Yes, As a thought leader, there are responsibilities involved and

799
00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:41,159
tons of effects, and I think he's kind of a

800
00:42:41,159 --> 00:42:44,840
combination of those things and that's what's making it. That's

801
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:49,559
what's making people kind of excites here and muddying the issue.

802
00:42:49,639 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 3: Does that make sense.

803
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,280
Speaker 1: Sort of? But I would push back on that. I

804
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,239
think we've already determined that it was a friendly interview

805
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,719
with him, So it wasn't any kind of into top

806
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:05,239
level intellectual discussion. It wasn't an antagonistic interview where you're

807
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:11,440
trying to pin someone down on their actual beliefs. And

808
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,840
I determined that you would.

809
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:18,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think because it wasn't a hostile interview that

810
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:21,119
it might have been more effective at pushing back against

811
00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:25,880
the Nazism of Flentes than if it had been hostile.

812
00:43:26,159 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 3: And I just want to say another thing.

813
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,599
Speaker 2: I saw some people, by the way, there's so many

814
00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:32,719
people I love and respect who have kind of be

815
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,679
clowned themselves on it's like just getting like way too

816
00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:38,360
emotional about everything. And I get that it's an emotional issue,

817
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,000
but like it would be nice to have people just

818
00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:44,800
calm down a little bit. But during the interview, since

819
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,360
you watched it, you know, this quent it says something like,

820
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,960
I remember it was this date because the date was

821
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:56,039
Stalin's birthday and I'm kind of a Stalin fan. And

822
00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:00,119
Tucker is like, I'm sorry, what, and he's like, yeah,

823
00:44:00,159 --> 00:44:02,239
I kind of like him, and he's like, we'll get

824
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,840
back to it. And then they never do, right, They

825
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,559
never get back to why is Nick Foente's a Stalin

826
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:12,320
pan But it's also true that him saying that, which

827
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,519
he does, I'm sure thinking like as eighteen year old

828
00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:18,239
boys do, and he's not eighteen any longer, that this

829
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:20,639
is like a cool, edgy thing to do to excite

830
00:44:20,679 --> 00:44:23,199
the stupid boys. It just made him look like a

831
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:28,480
complete and utter loser, and also was self contradictory, like

832
00:44:28,519 --> 00:44:31,000
does he know what Stalin did to the Nazis and

833
00:44:31,039 --> 00:44:33,559
he's also a Nazi? And like it just didn't even

834
00:44:33,559 --> 00:44:35,159
make any sense, and it showed he was kind of

835
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,159
not as smart.

836
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:37,519
Speaker 3: As I had.

837
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes these really evil people are actually quite smart,

838
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:44,000
And in that case, I didn't find that to be

839
00:44:44,039 --> 00:44:46,679
a particular evidence of intelligence.

840
00:44:47,679 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: I guess our disagreement here is just that I do

841
00:44:51,079 --> 00:44:54,880
not concede that Tucker is doing some kind of interview

842
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,880
to make Puents look bad. I think he's trying to

843
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:58,840
make him look good.

844
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 3: I said, he might be trying to help him.

845
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:04,599
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, or or that he's doing it for some

846
00:45:05,039 --> 00:45:05,840
good Marion.

847
00:45:05,639 --> 00:45:07,639
Speaker 3: Help help him get away from.

848
00:45:07,599 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: I believe Tucker Carlson hates Jews, right, that's just something

849
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,079
I believe. You don't have to agree. I'm just going

850
00:45:13,079 --> 00:45:14,480
to tell you so from me might.

851
00:45:14,639 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 2: Say in the interviews contrary to that, because he doesn't

852
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,760
have a racist or an identitarian view of it.

853
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: First of all, I don't care that he says that.

854
00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:25,760
I see what he does. He has people on his

855
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,719
show constantly personally, he lies constantly, and he lifts up

856
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,679
people who lies lie and does not challenge them. But

857
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,239
more than that, it's always some kind of smear of

858
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,639
American Jews. And that's fine. People want to listen to it.

859
00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:43,119
It's fine. But then he has an acquentisas he has

860
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,960
Candice Owens on before he has the guy, you know,

861
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,639
a fake historian who talks about how the Holocaust happened

862
00:45:48,639 --> 00:45:51,760
because of Churchill or whatever, like one thing like that.

863
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:54,159
You're like, all right, that's a weirdo, and he likes

864
00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:57,320
to have some conversations like that. Week after a week

865
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:01,039
of that tells me something different. But I want to

866
00:46:01,039 --> 00:46:04,559
talk about the canceling part. Yes, I think canceling is wrong.

867
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,719
It corrodes discourse in civil society right. Canceling is going

868
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,639
after someone you know, who wears a maga hat at

869
00:46:11,679 --> 00:46:18,559
a baseball game or a media a tweet that is inelegant,

870
00:46:18,599 --> 00:46:20,440
you know, and or it's taken out of context, and

871
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,679
then people get them fired and rally to get them fired.

872
00:46:23,639 --> 00:46:27,679
All the people are claiming, like Roberts, who are claiming

873
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,440
that people are trying to cancel here, he's just trying

874
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,119
to tone police other people. He's just telling me that

875
00:46:34,159 --> 00:46:37,159
we can't criticize. He called people who criticized Tucker a

876
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,360
venomous coalition. Not Tucker who brings on a Nazi on

877
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,519
his show. Not Tucker who says that Christian Zionists are

878
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:48,239
worse than anyone in America. He hates the more. That's

879
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,679
fine with him. Why can't he just say Tucker's my friend?

880
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,039
He says, you know whatever, And I want to defend

881
00:46:53,119 --> 00:46:58,440
him rather than trying to create this gaslighting over an

882
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,440
issue of people being mad about something legitimate. Surely you

883
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,400
can concede that you can see why, let's say a

884
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:08,199
Jewish person would be anxious about what Talker is up to. Right,

885
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,719
are they part of a venomous coalition? Am I part

886
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:12,920
of a coalition?

887
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,800
Speaker 2: Because like, there's so many parts of this of like awfulness.

888
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,000
So the first part we've talked about, right, Talker brings

889
00:47:20,039 --> 00:47:28,119
on Nick Foantes and drops a bomb into conservative discourse

890
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,000
right ahead of elections. But then I don't I still

891
00:47:32,039 --> 00:47:36,920
don't understand why Kevin Roberts, who's someone who I know

892
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,159
to be a very good man, why he felt compelled

893
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:44,760
to issue a video about this.

894
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,519
Speaker 1: You'll have to ask him. But you'll have to ask him.

895
00:47:48,639 --> 00:47:51,599
I say this, Everyone tells me he's a good man, right,

896
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,320
A lot of people have told me that, and I

897
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,880
believe it. I have no reason to think he's not

898
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,199
a good man. But the bottom line is we live

899
00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:00,320
in a world where we're out in the look. To

900
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,079
some extent, he's a lot more out in the public

901
00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:04,320
than I am. He runs a big thing tank, and

902
00:48:04,679 --> 00:48:07,519
good men also have to defend their actions and words.

903
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:10,320
And he has not said I shouldn't have said those

904
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:15,440
things or anything like that. He pulled the Oh, you

905
00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:18,719
just misunderstood the nuance of what else said. I'm sorry

906
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:20,920
that you misheard what I said, David.

907
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:25,639
Speaker 2: I will say I saw you responding to it right away,

908
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,400
and I know that you're operating in good faith. And

909
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,079
I know other people were horrified by what he said

910
00:48:31,079 --> 00:48:33,280
and they thought it had the wrong tone and everything,

911
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,159
and even just like the fact of it. But if

912
00:48:36,199 --> 00:48:39,239
you listen to what he actually said, I don't think

913
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,719
he said what he's being accused of. Like people keep

914
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:49,679
just kind of asserting things without substantiating it. And I

915
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,119
don't think he should have issued a statement. I don't

916
00:48:52,119 --> 00:48:54,119
love how he said. I mean, I actually, but I

917
00:48:54,159 --> 00:48:55,920
don't even have a problem with like what he said.

918
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,239
What is your problem with what he said?

919
00:49:00,199 --> 00:49:03,599
Speaker 1: Virtually everything? Now, I went initially heard it and was upsetting,

920
00:49:03,639 --> 00:49:06,199
and I'm like, maybe I'm I think about this, by

921
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,960
the way, maybe I'm being too sensitive here, right, I

922
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,400
think that I'm not melting down about what Nick Fuente

923
00:49:12,519 --> 00:49:15,159
says because he's just a provocateur. I get that. It's

924
00:49:15,199 --> 00:49:18,199
like he thinks it's funny. I think it's stupid. Right.

925
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,000
It's the people who try to bring him into the fold.

926
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,239
Who lift him up? You know, who think that, oh,

927
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,599
these are just some young men looking for ideas. No

928
00:49:26,679 --> 00:49:30,559
they're not. But anyway, the first paragraph I wrote out

929
00:49:30,599 --> 00:49:32,840
the whole his whole statement, so I could read it

930
00:49:33,039 --> 00:49:34,519
on paper on my computer.

931
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 2: Can you like literally read the part that's a problem.

932
00:49:39,079 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 3: For you to us?

933
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,519
Speaker 1: Okay, I can read the whole first paragraph if you'd like. Okay,

934
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,760
Christians can critique the state of Israel without being anti Semitic.

935
00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:53,039
Do you have a problem that's a complete I almost

936
00:49:53,119 --> 00:49:55,599
just dropped an F bomb. That is the biggest straw

937
00:49:55,679 --> 00:49:58,880
man on earth. Okay, I haven't.

938
00:49:59,199 --> 00:50:03,079
Speaker 2: I mean, I fel it's some kind of what we're

939
00:50:03,119 --> 00:50:04,280
talking about right now.

940
00:50:04,159 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: Right criticism of Israel. Where is their criticism Israel in

941
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,280
this statement? It's it's a defense of someone who put

942
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,599
Nick flintest on. Do you think Nick Flents has good

943
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:16,280
criticisms of Israel? I mean what criticism? I want specifics?

944
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:19,519
You know this, I can criticize Israel. Memo did not

945
00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:22,480
go after the New York Times, Washington Post, every single

946
00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:25,840
major legacy you know outlet, and now every single right

947
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,599
wing outlet almost like so give me a break with that.

948
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,639
I mean, I'm not saying, are you. I'm sure you've

949
00:50:31,639 --> 00:50:33,599
been critical of Israel. Don't think you're an anti sementy

950
00:50:33,599 --> 00:50:35,519
People critical of Israel all the time who.

951
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 3: Aren't actually not not so critical. I'm like people.

952
00:50:39,199 --> 00:50:44,079
Speaker 1: Engaged in a genocide, for instance. That goes farther. But anyway,

953
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:46,840
the point is he doesn't mention what this, What does

954
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,199
that have to do with Tucker? What does that have

955
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,239
to do with what happened with Tucker and Nick flintest?

956
00:50:51,800 --> 00:51:02,559
Speaker 2: But aren't Doesn't it seem that there has been some

957
00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:07,320
conflation here. So speaking back to Ted Cruz, I think

958
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,800
it was maybe in that Tucker interview where he says,

959
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,880
I believe that there's this scripture verse that says those

960
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:17,039
who bless Israel will be blessed, Which do you want

961
00:51:17,039 --> 00:51:21,639
to say, for many Orthodox Christians would be a misreading

962
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,159
and to say that as a way of supporting the

963
00:51:24,159 --> 00:51:27,039
current secular state of Israel, that would be viewed by

964
00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:30,480
many Christians as a misreading of that scripture, not by all,

965
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:34,719
but by some by many. And then, like Mike Pence

966
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:40,440
today said, there is no room in the conservative movement

967
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,840
for people who do not support like the support of Israel.

968
00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:46,159
Speaker 3: Did you see that?

969
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:50,159
Speaker 1: No, it's like saying there's no room in the Conservative

970
00:51:50,159 --> 00:51:53,119
party for someone who kills who's in a pro abortion

971
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,679
Let's say, I mean people can have opinions about an ally.

972
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,079
I don't know why that's so offensive.

973
00:51:57,199 --> 00:52:00,039
Speaker 2: No, I'm just saying you sometimes act like, Okay, there's.

974
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 3: No room in the conservative moment. I'm I'm reading the.

975
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 2: Pence quote because I want to get it right. There's

976
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:10,840
no room in the conservative movement for opposing American support

977
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:15,800
for Israel. So you can act like it's crazy that

978
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,199
people feel like a need to react against him.

979
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: Does he say that's where? Does he say it's anti Semitic?

980
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,320
He's what we're talking about here?

981
00:52:23,639 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 2: Well, and then hold on he I feel like there

982
00:52:27,039 --> 00:52:29,320
was something else he said, but I don't remember where

983
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:29,679
it was.

984
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 1: Can I get to the point that one question.

985
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,119
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like I have been spending some of

986
00:52:37,159 --> 00:52:40,039
the last few days trying to help people who are

987
00:52:40,119 --> 00:52:47,280
not Jewish understand why Kevin's statement hurt so much. I

988
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:54,079
would also like people to understand how the environment for

989
00:52:54,599 --> 00:52:58,920
conversations here has also made it hard for people to

990
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:03,800
speak freely about not supporting Israel, and the Mike Pence quote,

991
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:05,559
to me is a great example of that. He's not

992
00:53:05,599 --> 00:53:07,840
a nobody. He's former Vice president of the United States.

993
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,119
He's well liked by many people. And when he says

994
00:53:10,159 --> 00:53:12,320
that there's no room in here for debate about how

995
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:18,679
much support to give Israel, that's restrictive to what and

996
00:53:18,679 --> 00:53:19,400
it's unhelpful.

997
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:20,519
Speaker 3: Actually, I think it's not good.

998
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,599
Speaker 1: That's what politics is. There's restrictions on a lot of things.

999
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,519
I'm sure that JD. Vans would say there's no room

1000
00:53:26,599 --> 00:53:32,239
for pro choice people in the conservative movement. It's a position.

1001
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,639
It has nothing to do with the Constitution or anything

1002
00:53:34,679 --> 00:53:38,039
like that. It's a moral position, and people have a

1003
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:41,559
moral position on Israel anyway. We can discuss that later.

1004
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,840
But here's the thing. This whole paragraph, he goes on

1005
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,199
and on about this right no reflexively supporting government for

1006
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,320
the globalist class and inte you know, and mouthpieces in Washington,

1007
00:53:52,599 --> 00:53:54,800
and then at the end he says, the the Heritage

1008
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,960
Foundation did become the intellectual backbone of the conservative movement

1009
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:03,280
by canceling our own people or policing the consciences of Christians,

1010
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:06,320
and we won't start doing it now. One paragraph later,

1011
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,320
he says that we should not cancel Nick Fuents. He

1012
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:14,239
basically puts Nick Flentis on the same side as on

1013
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,719
the right, on Heritage's side, and on the other side

1014
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:21,960
the venomous coalition of anyone who dares critique what Tucker

1015
00:54:22,039 --> 00:54:24,519
put Nick Flentis on, which has almost nothing to do

1016
00:54:24,599 --> 00:54:25,199
with Israel.

1017
00:54:25,679 --> 00:54:27,280
Speaker 2: When he tweeted it out, he said it was a

1018
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,559
statement about Tucker, not Nick Fuente's.

1019
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:31,159
Speaker 3: So I think.

1020
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 2: I think someone true though that there is a debate

1021
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:45,480
about whether you should have any engagement with roeper stuff,

1022
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:48,679
with Nick Fuente's stuff, or not. And you and I've

1023
00:54:48,679 --> 00:54:50,559
had this debate for a long time, like long before

1024
00:54:51,199 --> 00:54:54,400
Nick Pointes existed, I'm sure, which is like, is it

1025
00:54:54,519 --> 00:54:58,800
worth it to fight back against evil people? Or should you,

1026
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:02,280
like do buying engaging with them? Do you legitimize them somehow?

1027
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,760
This is a longstanding debate, and I don't totally know

1028
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:10,400
what the answer to it is, but I do think,

1029
00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:16,119
actually we there's benefit to winning in the marketplace of ideas,

1030
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,599
to engaging and defeating.

1031
00:55:19,199 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: There's something wrong with a person who hates and vilifies

1032
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:29,920
Christian Zionist and that's a theological argument for you guys

1033
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,239
to deal with. Okay, I'm happy I like Christian Zionists,

1034
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:37,679
but that's I don't have a stake in that treating

1035
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,760
them with who are venom and vilifying them. Then you

1036
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,079
do a guy who says women want to be raped

1037
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,119
and then not bringing that up when you interview him,

1038
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:50,000
tells me something very seriously wrong with Tucker. So he's

1039
00:55:50,039 --> 00:55:54,400
in an ideological and moral freefall in my view, And

1040
00:55:54,599 --> 00:55:57,159
won't not that he doesn't debate twent This doesn't debate

1041
00:55:57,199 --> 00:55:59,920
anyone like you know. And all I'm saying is that

1042
00:56:00,119 --> 00:56:02,119
Kevin Roberts didn't even have to be involved with this.

1043
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,440
His name didn't even come into my head when this

1044
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:07,280
was going on there. I don't know why he has to.

1045
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 2: That's what I'm like, Why did this even happen? And

1046
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,079
how did this help anything or did it hurt?

1047
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 3: Now?

1048
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 2: I do think there's some benefit to actually having some

1049
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:22,239
of this out about foreign policy, and I think there's

1050
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:27,760
something we should mention, which is the reality that views

1051
00:56:28,679 --> 00:56:33,840
toward Israel are becoming much more negative in the last

1052
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:34,400
few years.

1053
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:36,679
Speaker 3: There was a Pew.

1054
00:56:36,599 --> 00:56:41,800
Speaker 2: Pole from March that just asked if you had a

1055
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:46,679
favorable or unfavorable view of Israel, and among adults in general,

1056
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,519
the percent that had had an unfavorable view in twenty

1057
00:56:50,599 --> 00:56:54,159
twenty two was a minority forty two percent, still pretty high.

1058
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,599
In twenty twenty five it was a majority fifty three percent.

1059
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:04,039
Among Republicans, it went from only twenty seven percent had

1060
00:57:04,039 --> 00:57:08,280
a negative view to thirty seven percent, but among Republicans

1061
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:15,079
under fifty, it's now half have an unfavorable view of Israel.

1062
00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:20,039
Among Democrats, the situation is dire. Basically, it's like three

1063
00:57:20,159 --> 00:57:24,039
quarters of Democrats under the age of fifty have a

1064
00:57:24,039 --> 00:57:29,039
negative view. This is just a real thing that we

1065
00:57:29,159 --> 00:57:31,599
have to deal with and that I think people are

1066
00:57:31,639 --> 00:57:36,440
panicking over and not showing wisdom about how to respond.

1067
00:57:36,519 --> 00:57:39,760
And I don't think saying you're an anti Semit if

1068
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:41,840
you don't like Israel, like even if you believe that,

1069
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,840
I don't know if that's going to be effective.

1070
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to need you or anyone to show me

1071
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:50,880
a serious person in the world who says you're an

1072
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,119
anti Semite if you don't like Israel. I've not met

1073
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:55,679
that person. I've not seen that quote. No one can

1074
00:57:55,719 --> 00:57:59,159
ever provide one for me. They when people say someone's antisemitic.

1075
00:57:59,199 --> 00:58:04,199
They give specific of why, But when when Robert says,

1076
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,639
my loyalty as a Christians to christ firus to America,

1077
00:58:06,679 --> 00:58:10,199
always and on and on his intimating that people who

1078
00:58:10,239 --> 00:58:13,360
disagree with Tucker do not have America in their minds.

1079
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,639
And I want to know, I want someone to explain

1080
00:58:15,679 --> 00:58:18,320
to me when Israel has undermined American interests. You don't

1081
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,159
have to support Israel, but you keep pretending, like that

1082
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,119
kid who asked JD. Vans a question at a TPUSA

1083
00:58:24,679 --> 00:58:28,679
event the other day, that Israel is trying to drag

1084
00:58:28,719 --> 00:58:31,559
America into a world war and blah blah blah blah blah,

1085
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:36,000
and Jdvance doesn't say, that's that's hysterical what you're saying.

1086
00:58:36,119 --> 00:58:37,920
You know, the Adelsons don't want us in a world

1087
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,599
war or whatever. No, he says, don't worry. Donald Trump

1088
00:58:40,599 --> 00:58:42,760
won't let them do it. So to me, that's a

1089
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,840
problematic statement. And people I see are connecting Vance and

1090
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,039
this and that. Well, yeah, I mean, Tucker's friends with Vance.

1091
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:51,719
It's very fair for people to wonder about his opinion.

1092
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,199
I'm not you know, you said before you wish we

1093
00:58:54,199 --> 00:58:58,039
were talking about real issues. Yeah, Tucker did this Robas

1094
00:58:58,119 --> 00:58:59,039
Knows was saying, like I want.

1095
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 2: To write the piece like when it comes to this,

1096
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,199
I hate everybody, like I've just annoyed with everybody, But

1097
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,599
I'm also annoyed by this mob mentality.

1098
00:59:07,719 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 3: I will totally.

1099
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:11,599
Speaker 2: Grant that I think it was unwise for Kevin Roberts

1100
00:59:11,599 --> 00:59:14,440
to issue this statement that he could praise things differently.

1101
00:59:16,199 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 3: One of the things I wish people would do.

1102
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:22,559
Speaker 2: And I fail at this all the time, and it

1103
00:59:22,599 --> 00:59:26,000
would probably mortify people to know how much I actually

1104
00:59:26,079 --> 00:59:28,199
work on this, given how much I fail at it.

1105
00:59:28,679 --> 00:59:30,559
Speaker 3: But in the Lutheran.

1106
00:59:30,199 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: Catechism, the when we study the Aidh commandment about not

1107
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:38,199
bearing false witness, and then we talk about how how

1108
00:59:38,199 --> 00:59:42,039
do you keep that commandment, we learn that it's not

1109
00:59:42,239 --> 00:59:46,719
just about not lying about people or saying falsehoods or gossiping,

1110
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:50,800
but also about putting the best construction on what they said.

1111
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,880
And I think we would all do better to do

1112
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,719
that and think about the sum total of someone's work.

1113
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:03,039
And you know, I know Kevin Roberts. I know he's

1114
01:00:03,039 --> 01:00:05,119
a good man. I know he loves his fellow man.

1115
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:07,599
I know he loves Jews. I know he supports Israel.

1116
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,719
I know because of the things he's said in private

1117
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:15,280
and public, and I wish people were showing him far

1118
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,280
more grace than they are. And it just seems like

1119
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,760
there's this like braying mob just you know.

1120
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,119
Speaker 1: You know, out for him and it What about the mob?

1121
01:00:25,199 --> 01:00:29,559
What about the mob that that defends Tucker in no

1122
01:00:29,559 --> 01:00:31,440
matter what he says. What about that mob that's a

1123
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:31,960
mob too?

1124
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:32,679
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1125
01:00:32,679 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 1: You know, you know, you know, Kevin.

1126
01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 3: Real sounds like a defense instead of a First.

1127
01:00:37,239 --> 01:00:39,159
Speaker 1: Of all, he doesn't have to be pro Israel whatever.

1128
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:40,920
I don't think he's pro Israel. He didn't say a

1129
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:44,239
single pro Israel thing here. Maybe he is a job Okay, I'm.

1130
01:00:44,119 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 2: Just saying I know that personally. His job at the

1131
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:50,199
Heritage Foundation is not to be necessarily pro any other country.

1132
01:00:50,679 --> 01:00:53,039
It's to be pro America. And he's very good at that.

1133
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:56,639
Speaker 1: Why do we keep pretending that there's some That's my

1134
01:00:56,719 --> 01:00:59,760
problem right there. I'm pro Taiwan. I think bring protai

1135
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,639
one great. I'm thinking undermindes American interest. I can say it,

1136
01:01:02,679 --> 01:01:04,800
and I can say I love America and pro Taiwan.

1137
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,519
I could say in pro is there's no there's no

1138
01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:09,760
conflict there. What's the cost there?

1139
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:10,079
Speaker 4: Is this.

1140
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:15,119
Speaker 2: So when Nick Fuentes, I think Tucker was talking about

1141
01:01:15,159 --> 01:01:17,760
how Nick had said all these horrible things about Tucker,

1142
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,679
and he was like, yeah, I hate the way you

1143
01:01:20,719 --> 01:01:23,519
say things, and I even hate that you say that

1144
01:01:23,599 --> 01:01:27,000
we should treat Israel like any other country. He's like,

1145
01:01:27,039 --> 01:01:29,480
it's not like any other country. And so he's like,

1146
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:33,880
because of their history and the Holocaust and everything, their

1147
01:01:34,039 --> 01:01:37,960
diaspora is different than the diaspora of other countries. And

1148
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,239
he means this as like a negative against against the

1149
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:42,360
Jews in America.

1150
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:44,400
Speaker 3: But I think of it.

1151
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 2: As like a positive thing. And it's why I do

1152
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,000
think America has a special relationship with Israel, because we

1153
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:52,880
are a country with a lot of Jews, and because

1154
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,480
we care about what happens to Jews when they don't

1155
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,000
have protection, either in our country or in their own country.

1156
01:02:00,559 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 3: I mean that sounded that sounded that.

1157
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 2: I didn't mean that that way, like either in America

1158
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,039
or in Israel. I think we do have a special

1159
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:08,800
relationship because we have a lot of Jews here and

1160
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:11,239
I'm not upset about it. And like once I it's

1161
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:13,800
not the most like principled thing in the world, but

1162
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,079
it is just who we are as a people, it's

1163
01:02:16,119 --> 01:02:18,480
okay to have a special relationship with another country.

1164
01:02:18,559 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 3: I think.

1165
01:02:19,239 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: I think it's a good ally and I think it's

1166
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:25,159
worked out well. I think it helps the United States

1167
01:02:25,199 --> 01:02:27,519
when it can, and and all of that. But you know,

1168
01:02:27,559 --> 01:02:31,400
I kind of think about it this way. If the Vatican,

1169
01:02:31,519 --> 01:02:33,119
you know, if that was its own country and it

1170
01:02:33,159 --> 01:02:36,079
was constantly under attack and it was constantly a threat,

1171
01:02:36,159 --> 01:02:38,480
you know, there was a threat of nuclear annihilation and

1172
01:02:38,519 --> 01:02:41,559
Catholics were being slaughtered elsewhere and so forth and so on,

1173
01:02:42,039 --> 01:02:44,320
Catholics in this country would rally around that. That doesn't

1174
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,480
mean they didn't love America. It doesn't mean that they

1175
01:02:46,599 --> 01:02:50,519
put America second. There's no conflict there. These people, Tucker

1176
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:52,519
and others want there to be a conflict. They're mad

1177
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,800
at the dispensational list. There's some kind of theological thing

1178
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:57,960
going on, you know what have at it. I don't

1179
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:02,199
really care, but this idea, uh that Jews are fifth

1180
01:03:02,239 --> 01:03:05,320
columnists in this country is very offensive, and he pushes that.

1181
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:08,000
I get it also when you're not if you're not Jewish,

1182
01:03:08,039 --> 01:03:10,719
sometimes like I'm not Lutheran, right, someone's saying something about

1183
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,440
Luthany that I might not understand. It, and you know what,

1184
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:14,920
maybe I wouldn't even care that much. I'd be like,

1185
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,079
who cares about the Lutherans right now? I get that

1186
01:03:17,079 --> 01:03:19,079
people aren't involved in this as much as I am.

1187
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:22,000
But I think there's a moral question here that we

1188
01:03:22,039 --> 01:03:24,360
have a moral imperative not to lift up people who

1189
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,880
you know, Nick Quentez said that Charlie Kirk was you know,

1190
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,519
he called him really ugly, things said he wasn't a patriot,

1191
01:03:30,559 --> 01:03:33,440
so forth and so on. So if if Jimmy Kimmel

1192
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,760
can be canceled and I don't have to lift him up,

1193
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:38,679
the Conservative celebrated when they thought he was going to

1194
01:03:38,719 --> 01:03:41,159
be canceled celebrated, I have to.

1195
01:03:41,159 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 3: Treat what do you want to canceled from?

1196
01:03:44,159 --> 01:03:46,519
Speaker 1: I don't want him canceled. What I'm saying is we

1197
01:03:46,559 --> 01:03:48,960
don't have if he says something bad and people are

1198
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,960
critical of him and stigmatize his views and stigmatize him,

1199
01:03:53,639 --> 01:03:57,320
make him toxic to be around, like you should with

1200
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:59,719
other you know, terrible people on the left or whatever.

1201
01:04:00,039 --> 01:04:01,360
First of all, I don't even think the guy's on

1202
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:02,679
the right in any way.

1203
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 2: I don't even know if he would say he's on

1204
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:05,239
the right.

1205
01:04:05,639 --> 01:04:07,480
Speaker 1: You saw What's Happened, and New York Times is a

1206
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,480
big piece about how Nick Fintess has taken over for

1207
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:13,320
Charlie Kirk, Right. I don't think that's true. This blowback

1208
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:18,079
shows me that that's not really true. But the thing

1209
01:04:18,239 --> 01:04:19,760
is that's going to be you know. And they use

1210
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:21,320
this picture of him where they make him look like

1211
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:25,199
handsome and masculine. I don't know how they did that. Yeah,

1212
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:27,719
I tweeted out a picture of myself taken by the

1213
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:29,840
same photographer, but it was a picture of Brad Pitt.

1214
01:04:30,559 --> 01:04:35,320
But that's going to be hung on people if we

1215
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:40,719
have this chorus of people pretending that it's censorship and

1216
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:45,880
canceling and whatever. Tone policing, and yeah, we tone police

1217
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:47,960
because we're moral people. How am I going to be

1218
01:04:48,159 --> 01:04:50,119
a lot of the people who defend Tucker are the

1219
01:04:50,119 --> 01:04:53,840
most you know, are religious people. They say, right, and

1220
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:56,559
they are always talking about morality and the importance of

1221
01:04:56,599 --> 01:04:59,519
it of it in our society. And then they defend

1222
01:04:59,519 --> 01:05:02,079
a person who says things like that, or did they

1223
01:05:02,119 --> 01:05:05,239
defend the lifting up of that person? I think that's

1224
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:07,880
problematic for the right. This could really hurt them in

1225
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:12,159
a way with people who aren't as forgiving or I

1226
01:05:12,159 --> 01:05:14,519
would say, like independents who don't understand really even what's

1227
01:05:14,559 --> 01:05:16,559
going on, they're not going to make these distinctions that

1228
01:05:16,559 --> 01:05:18,079
you and I are making anyway.

1229
01:05:18,159 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 2: So this was not for publication, but someone who does

1230
01:05:21,519 --> 01:05:24,880
listen to our podcast was talking, and he listens to

1231
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:27,480
a lot of podcasts, and he was getting very annoyed

1232
01:05:27,559 --> 01:05:30,760
by how sanctimonious some of the podcasts he was listening

1233
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:34,840
to were being about this topic. And he said, I'm

1234
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:38,440
getting very annoyed here when people say America is so divided,

1235
01:05:38,559 --> 01:05:41,719
so polarized, we need to treat each other with more charity,

1236
01:05:42,199 --> 01:05:46,039
what do they think that means? And he referenced this

1237
01:05:46,119 --> 01:05:50,239
situation where a prominent neo con called Sean Davis Adolph

1238
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:54,920
junior and said that Hitler, like Hitler's brain, was in

1239
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,840
Sean Davis's brain. He says, first, it means not calling

1240
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:02,400
Sean Davis Adolph junior. It also means giving a respectable

1241
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:06,400
hearing to people with whom we disagree, even Nick Fuente's,

1242
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,000
this is his argument. It means chilling the heck out

1243
01:06:09,039 --> 01:06:11,960
before someone else gets shot. Would it be acceptable to

1244
01:06:12,039 --> 01:06:14,599
delight in the death of Nick Fuentes if you were shot.

1245
01:06:15,119 --> 01:06:17,320
Charlie Kirk is the easy case because he was so

1246
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:21,039
beloved and conducted himself so well, and yet leftists celebrated.

1247
01:06:21,639 --> 01:06:24,000
Was it okay to celebrate the shooting of George Wallace?

1248
01:06:24,559 --> 01:06:26,960
The right needs to get a grip. People have a

1249
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:31,199
variety of ideas. They clash. Goodness, gracious. There's a difference

1250
01:06:31,199 --> 01:06:34,159
between being happy that the head of Hamas was assassinated

1251
01:06:34,199 --> 01:06:36,639
by the idef and being happy that any of our

1252
01:06:36,639 --> 01:06:40,199
fellow citizens was assassinated for any reason. I'm sure we

1253
01:06:40,239 --> 01:06:42,199
can come up with counter examples, but they should be

1254
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,719
banishingly rare. But it was kind of just like the hysteria.

1255
01:06:46,199 --> 01:06:52,119
I do worry is assassination the ish meaning like to

1256
01:06:52,159 --> 01:06:56,840
say that someone is not even worthy of debunking, that

1257
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:59,599
there's no nothing to do like.

1258
01:07:01,199 --> 01:07:01,239
Speaker 4: It.

1259
01:07:02,639 --> 01:07:04,599
Speaker 3: It could be dangerous, right or no.

1260
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:07,559
Speaker 1: I think that's a terrible email, terrible thinking and filled

1261
01:07:07,559 --> 01:07:09,880
with straw men. I have every I'm not gonna have

1262
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:13,440
my speech chilled because some fanatic somewhere is going to

1263
01:07:13,559 --> 01:07:15,920
kill someone over it. I've said that never would say anything,

1264
01:07:16,039 --> 01:07:18,880
you know me, I never would call for violence on anyone.

1265
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:20,719
I don't want Nick Fuentes to be shot. I want

1266
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:25,039
him to be safe. I want him to be stigmatized.

1267
01:07:25,079 --> 01:07:28,000
I want him to be toxic to normal people because

1268
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:32,760
his ideas are violent. He preaches violence, he talks about violence.

1269
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:37,480
Lifting him up makes us more violent. And it seems

1270
01:07:37,519 --> 01:07:40,840
like just listen, Tucker can bring a million people on

1271
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:43,000
who are going to say stuff about Israel, a million

1272
01:07:43,119 --> 01:07:46,000
people who are terrible. But this is the person he

1273
01:07:46,039 --> 01:07:49,400
brings on. He made it more famous. We're talking about him.

1274
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:50,800
I don't know what to do. I'm like, I shouldn't

1275
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:53,199
talk about these people, these people terrible. I'm a small voice.

1276
01:07:53,199 --> 01:07:55,920
Speaker 2: I'm actually happy not talking about him for the longest time,

1277
01:07:56,079 --> 01:07:57,360
for forever.

1278
01:07:57,519 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: What are we going to do? And then you know,

1279
01:07:59,119 --> 01:08:01,119
I hear and I don't know if it's true that

1280
01:08:01,239 --> 01:08:03,239
tons of people are big fans of his who work

1281
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:06,639
in DC, who work at Like initially, here was my

1282
01:08:06,679 --> 01:08:09,199
theory on Kevin Roberts. I felt like he didn't know

1283
01:08:09,199 --> 01:08:11,960
what was really going on fully right, and someone wrote

1284
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:14,119
him this script. Like I didn't think he wrote this

1285
01:08:14,239 --> 01:08:17,920
script right. He has this guy who works for him

1286
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:20,560
who has been fired or let go or whatever, resign.

1287
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:24,079
Maybe he did it right. Who's a younger person younger

1288
01:08:24,079 --> 01:08:28,119
people more into this stuff, and instead of I think

1289
01:08:28,239 --> 01:08:31,239
saying something to bring people together in a real way,

1290
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:34,960
there's this reactionary thing on the right now where you

1291
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,359
can I saw someone I'm not going to say their

1292
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:40,439
name on Twitter saying well, David French is mad and

1293
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:44,000
this one's mad, so they Tucker must be right. Yeah,

1294
01:08:44,039 --> 01:08:48,800
like that is just yeah, it's just vacuous. And there's

1295
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:50,439
a lot of that that goes on on both sides.

1296
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:51,920
But there's a lot of that that goes on.

1297
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:56,680
Speaker 2: And to that point, I remember once talking to a

1298
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,239
pastor and I said something like, well, if so, I'm

1299
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:03,039
miseration Lutheran and there's this very left wing Lutheran branch

1300
01:09:03,079 --> 01:09:05,399
called the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and I once

1301
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:07,520
said something like, well, if we ever wondered what to do,

1302
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,600
we should just do the opposite of what they're doing.

1303
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:12,600
And he was like, no, they're extreme. So if you

1304
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:14,880
do the opposite of what they're doing, we're just an

1305
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:18,000
extremist too. If you do the opposite of David French,

1306
01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:20,760
you're just being an extreme in an equally stupid direction.

1307
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:25,279
And conservatism really is about a balance there.

1308
01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 1: Well, man, one quick thing. I'm sorry. I just want

1309
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,960
to say that I think the left kind of do

1310
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,359
you remember like in the New York Times newsroom, some

1311
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,279
editorial assistant would like run the newsroom and the head

1312
01:09:38,279 --> 01:09:40,960
guy would like apologize to them for insulting them. Like

1313
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:44,000
there's a sense of this going on on the other side.

1314
01:09:44,039 --> 01:09:48,039
It's like the blue haired, genderless thrupple has taken over

1315
01:09:48,159 --> 01:09:51,319
the Democratic Party and now we're going to let the

1316
01:09:52,039 --> 01:09:54,920
groyper you know, frog face have a say in what's

1317
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:57,239
going on On the right. It gets more every time

1318
01:09:57,279 --> 01:09:59,680
you remove one stigma, keeps going another step, and you're

1319
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,439
going to ge crazier and crazier. And these people are

1320
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:05,560
not normal. They're not normies. The Republicans one last time

1321
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,560
in my view, because they were normal, Like that's all

1322
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:10,920
you have to be is normal to win in this country,

1323
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:12,880
and they're not. And I think it's going to be

1324
01:10:13,399 --> 01:10:15,479
you know, it could get worse and there could be

1325
01:10:15,920 --> 01:10:18,079
some guy quickly. One more thing. David From had a

1326
01:10:18,359 --> 01:10:20,520
you know, I never quote David From, but he said

1327
01:10:21,279 --> 01:10:23,319
that it was interesting. People like attacked him, but I

1328
01:10:23,319 --> 01:10:25,319
think they misread what he said. He said. I do too,

1329
01:10:25,319 --> 01:10:26,960
I know what you're going to say, yeah, so there's

1330
01:10:27,119 --> 01:10:29,199
there's anti semitism on the right and left, but on

1331
01:10:29,239 --> 01:10:33,000
the right there's actually a big debate about whether that's okay,

1332
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:35,800
And I think that speaks well of the right, So

1333
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:39,239
we shouldn't just try to chill speech of the people

1334
01:10:39,279 --> 01:10:42,680
are critical of Tucker either, just because he's very popular anyway.

1335
01:10:42,359 --> 01:10:43,960
Speaker 3: So I do I do not.

1336
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:48,079
Speaker 2: I did not get the impression that Nick Fuintes was

1337
01:10:48,199 --> 01:10:51,520
some intellectual giant worth paying attention to, so I don't

1338
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:57,600
want to give that impression here. But I saw Mark

1339
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:02,119
Levin say something like, cancelation is awesome, and cancelation works.

1340
01:11:02,199 --> 01:11:05,720
We canceled Pat Buchanan, didn't we, And I was like thinking,

1341
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,159
I don't think that worked very well for the people

1342
01:11:08,159 --> 01:11:13,680
who did it. Meaning people are complicated creatures. And Pat

1343
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:18,920
Buchanan is a brilliant man with many good ideas and

1344
01:11:19,279 --> 01:11:21,920
also had some ideas.

1345
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:22,800
Speaker 3: That weren't so good.

1346
01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:26,840
Speaker 2: And it's okay to engage with someone that way, like

1347
01:11:27,119 --> 01:11:30,640
to take what's good or to yeah, to take what's

1348
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,279
good and to renounce what's bad. And you know, there

1349
01:11:34,279 --> 01:11:37,640
are all sorts of views on Buchanan, but like, canceling

1350
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,279
isn't a good idea, and also it didn't work because

1351
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,840
the ideas he had that were good, I think are

1352
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,920
still around and people are you know, enjoying reading what

1353
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,199
he had to say about them, or even like people

1354
01:11:50,239 --> 01:11:56,039
always comment on how Buckley canceled him, how he wrote

1355
01:11:56,039 --> 01:12:02,000
that like completely unedited screed about him being an anti semit.

1356
01:12:02,279 --> 01:12:05,319
Speaker 1: Are you talking about David against Oh.

1357
01:12:05,279 --> 01:12:08,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, Buckley did something like that.

1358
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:10,880
Speaker 1: I have the book right here with all those essays

1359
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:15,720
in it. He goes through, Uh, buck I just I'm

1360
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:18,359
sorry to interested, So yeah, I guess say something like.

1361
01:12:18,359 --> 01:12:20,119
Speaker 2: Good about it. Though what I want to say is

1362
01:12:22,279 --> 01:12:26,439
ha Buchanan loved William Buckley and honored him and credited

1363
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,239
him with being like this really important leader of conservatism,

1364
01:12:30,319 --> 01:12:32,159
and then they also had a falling out that was

1365
01:12:32,319 --> 01:12:35,359
like really bad and everything and vice versa, like there

1366
01:12:35,399 --> 01:12:39,800
are people are complicated and it's okay to deal with

1367
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:41,000
the complication there.

1368
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 3: And one of the things that.

1369
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:50,279
Speaker 2: I learned from watching this interview was that uh Fuentes

1370
01:12:50,399 --> 01:12:55,880
was really I don't know, like like his origin story

1371
01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:59,760
involves a lot of his feeling that the right wasn't

1372
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:03,159
doing enough about immigration, And I was thinking about how

1373
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:06,199
one of the reasons why you want to do good

1374
01:13:06,319 --> 01:13:08,079
You want to do a good job with your position

1375
01:13:08,119 --> 01:13:08,680
of authority.

1376
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:09,920
Speaker 3: Is that so you don't.

1377
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:16,560
Speaker 2: Like create people who get radical and sometimes failing to

1378
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:22,039
do good things can lead to radicalization of voting blocks.

1379
01:13:22,079 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?

1380
01:13:23,199 --> 01:13:27,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, But we don't make excuses for the far left

1381
01:13:27,359 --> 01:13:30,439
wing young person who's psychotic, you know, Commy, we don't.

1382
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:32,520
We're not like, oh, you know, no.

1383
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:34,560
Speaker 2: I think I think it's good to understand it on

1384
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,680
that side too, right, Like what am I always talking about?

1385
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:41,319
Like it's it's hard to blame people when it's hard

1386
01:13:41,359 --> 01:13:43,560
to buy a house or form a family. I'm not

1387
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:47,760
excusing left wing terrorism or radicalism, but I do think

1388
01:13:48,359 --> 01:13:53,399
there's no harm in understanding the particular plight of individuals,

1389
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,159
or understanding how they've been educated for decades to hate

1390
01:13:56,159 --> 01:13:59,119
America and they do, you know, Like, I'm not saying

1391
01:13:59,119 --> 01:13:59,880
that's a good thing, but.

1392
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:03,239
Speaker 1: I think the same thing is happening on the flinta side.

1393
01:14:03,239 --> 01:14:05,079
I think they also hate America in a different yeas.

1394
01:14:05,079 --> 01:14:06,960
Speaker 2: I think I think they don't even realize, like they've

1395
01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:10,920
accepted this left wing framing of America being evil without

1396
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,800
realizing that they've accepted it in some cases.

1397
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:17,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I don't think Bukenan had many ideas, but

1398
01:14:17,119 --> 01:14:20,399
I respect him a lot more than I do. Nick

1399
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:25,279
Tuentes is an intellect. It's funny because I grew up

1400
01:14:25,319 --> 01:14:28,439
I watched Honestly, why I do what I do. Probably

1401
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:29,880
one of the main reasons is when I was a

1402
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:31,880
kid with my dad, I sat down and watched CNN

1403
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,279
and I watched Pap Buchanan debate on Crossfire like and

1404
01:14:34,319 --> 01:14:36,439
he was great. And I didn't even know he was

1405
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:38,479
kind of like I was too young to know, probably,

1406
01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:40,479
but you know, he just seemed like a regular conservative

1407
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,359
in many ways. I saw someone tweet out Buckley lost

1408
01:14:43,399 --> 01:14:46,800
and Buchanan one, which is the stupidest thing I ever heard.

1409
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:49,159
I don't think Buckley or Buchanan, either of them would

1410
01:14:49,199 --> 01:14:50,880
say that, you know that they.

1411
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:53,560
Speaker 3: Were on there's a complix.

1412
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:57,600
Speaker 1: Well, Nick Quentas has nothing in common with me. And

1413
01:14:57,640 --> 01:14:59,520
by the way, last thing on this and I'm going

1414
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:03,880
to but it's very hard for me to hear from you, fine,

1415
01:15:04,079 --> 01:15:06,439
but from others about how we all have we have

1416
01:15:06,479 --> 01:15:08,479
this big tent and blah blah blah, when they have

1417
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:12,800
been trying to chase out the so called libertarians and neocons.

1418
01:15:12,840 --> 01:15:16,319
I mean, is there anyone that paleocons hate worse than

1419
01:15:16,319 --> 01:15:18,800
a neokon? They would rather have Democrats in their party.

1420
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:21,239
I mean so, And by the way, I think that

1421
01:15:21,279 --> 01:15:24,000
those words are misused. You know, if I'm pro Israel,

1422
01:15:24,039 --> 01:15:26,600
I'm a neocon, which is not how that works, That's

1423
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:27,520
not what it means.

1424
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:30,720
Speaker 2: So I do think though that this is also what's

1425
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:34,199
making me hate everybody involved in this is people are

1426
01:15:34,399 --> 01:15:38,159
using all of this kerfuffle as a proxy war for

1427
01:15:38,279 --> 01:15:41,680
not about the who's in the tent, but who's who's

1428
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:44,479
at the top of the podium, you know, who's controlling

1429
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:46,199
the party and who's directing it.

1430
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:48,680
Speaker 3: And I think.

1431
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:54,039
Speaker 2: There's a lot of just like good faith concern about

1432
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:59,439
any encounters with antisemitism on the right, you know, I

1433
01:15:59,439 --> 01:16:03,159
think that's I think that's real and valid and good

1434
01:16:03,359 --> 01:16:05,760
that people have that concern. I also think there are

1435
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:11,880
some people who are trying to push a foreign policy

1436
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:17,039
that might not be as favorable with the party in

1437
01:16:17,119 --> 01:16:19,960
general as they would like it to be. And so

1438
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,279
we need to just keep having these debates, keep talking,

1439
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:24,399
keep working it out.

1440
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:25,359
Speaker 3: I think.

1441
01:16:28,319 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 2: It's good to be united and We are strong when

1442
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:36,800
we're united in purpose and understanding that when you have

1443
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:41,520
even people with strongly held foreign policy differences tearing each

1444
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:44,920
other apart, it is just making it easier for.

1445
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:46,039
Speaker 3: Us all to be destroyed.

1446
01:16:46,520 --> 01:16:51,560
Speaker 2: And I genuinely appreciate the debate and I'm all for

1447
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:56,119
it continuing. But we have really serious problems in our

1448
01:16:56,159 --> 01:17:00,680
country and in our world, and if we are tearing

1449
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:06,039
each other down and getting engaged in really stupid conflict

1450
01:17:06,159 --> 01:17:07,880
is just it's not going to work well for anybody.

1451
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:09,960
It's going to be much easier for the left, which

1452
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:13,720
wants all of us dead, to kill us all.

1453
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:15,239
Speaker 3: That's not a little extreme, but you know what I mean.

1454
01:17:15,439 --> 01:17:18,800
Speaker 1: Like, no, nobody's like in my faction. I'm not running

1455
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:20,560
to faction. But I am not on the same side

1456
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:24,279
as Tucker Carlson. So I'm perfectly fine. Not that he

1457
01:17:24,319 --> 01:17:26,319
gives us a crap about me or whatever, but I

1458
01:17:26,359 --> 01:17:30,000
am perfectly fine with me and my few people pointing

1459
01:17:30,039 --> 01:17:33,119
that out. So I don't I don't want him running

1460
01:17:33,119 --> 01:17:35,359
anything on this side. I mean that that to me

1461
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:39,199
is a worse faith than having a moderate Democrat running something.

1462
01:17:39,239 --> 01:17:41,039
So why should I be on the same side as

1463
01:17:41,039 --> 01:17:41,600
the Stomart, you.

1464
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 2: Should be more tolerant here and more strategic. So for instance,

1465
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:50,439
and I don't this might be a too personal a question,

1466
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:52,479
but did you vote for Donald Trump?

1467
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:55,720
Speaker 1: I don't vote. You know that, Okay, don't vote for anyone.

1468
01:17:57,239 --> 01:17:59,520
If I had to vote last time, if I told you,

1469
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,000
I've said is I don't vote. I've never I haven't

1470
01:18:02,079 --> 01:18:04,319
voted in almost my whole life. If I had to

1471
01:18:04,399 --> 01:18:07,640
vote for in twenty sixteen, I would never have voted

1472
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:10,119
for Donald Trump. I probably, I don't know what I

1473
01:18:10,159 --> 01:18:13,920
would have done. Right in the last election, I would

1474
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:16,520
have voted for Donald Trump for sure. I would have

1475
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:18,960
voted for Donald Trump for sure. And I think Donald

1476
01:18:19,039 --> 01:18:21,359
I think Donald Trump has got is much better than

1477
01:18:21,399 --> 01:18:24,640
his rhetoric as a in foreign policy. I think he's

1478
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:28,199
a foreign policy Here's my point to you, though. All

1479
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:30,960
these people you're talking about on this infighting it they're

1480
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:35,720
the ones who opposed Donald Trump's foreign policy. Tucker Carlson

1481
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:39,760
is the one who poses Donald Trump's and I think.

1482
01:18:39,199 --> 01:18:46,359
Speaker 2: A bit more, a bit more, that's preposterous and ridiculous.

1483
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:49,760
Vice president who's an advocate for the president disagrees with Okay,

1484
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:50,119
that's just.

1485
01:18:50,039 --> 01:18:52,760
Speaker 1: I don't think he would have bombed any Iranian nuclear sites.

1486
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:53,760
I don't think so.

1487
01:18:55,199 --> 01:18:58,520
Speaker 2: That may be true, but that's still let's talk about

1488
01:18:58,560 --> 01:18:59,319
another time yet.

1489
01:18:59,319 --> 01:19:00,119
Speaker 1: But no, I just.

1490
01:19:00,039 --> 01:19:02,640
Speaker 2: Want to say for everybody else, I get that you

1491
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:05,239
are a party of one and you join with no

1492
01:19:05,279 --> 01:19:07,520
one and you're an individual, and that's great and I'm

1493
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:09,439
happy for you, But like the rest of us need

1494
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:13,920
coalitions to achieve good things and to save the country.

1495
01:19:14,079 --> 01:19:17,359
And I would just say I would love some leaders

1496
01:19:17,439 --> 01:19:19,880
of the conservative movement to think a little bit more

1497
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:23,960
prudentially and like it, be more savvy about how delicate

1498
01:19:24,520 --> 01:19:26,920
a work it is to keep a coalition together that

1499
01:19:27,079 --> 01:19:31,680
does in fact include probably Liz Cheney and Dick Cheney

1500
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:35,640
accepting for different reasons, the neocon those types of neocons,

1501
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:39,000
but like neocons in general, and people who have a

1502
01:19:39,039 --> 01:19:43,840
more non interventionist foreign policy. It's there are people who are,

1503
01:19:44,039 --> 01:19:46,319
you know, pro choice that might be part of the

1504
01:19:46,359 --> 01:19:49,600
coalition that pro lifers wish weren't there, but like sometimes

1505
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:55,039
it just helps. We can have some contradictions here, but

1506
01:19:55,159 --> 01:19:57,039
like people need to keep there.

1507
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,399
Speaker 3: They need to just they just need to be thinking

1508
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:02,239
more like statesmen and less like.

1509
01:20:03,760 --> 01:20:07,199
Speaker 2: How can I jockey for power here in this particular moment.

1510
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:11,319
Speaker 1: And you don't think you do you think, Tucker Tucker.

1511
01:20:11,119 --> 01:20:15,640
Speaker 3: Carlson speaking, I'm speaking to My point.

1512
01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:17,600
Speaker 1: Is if I, if I were a big podcast and

1513
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,560
millions of followers like he does, who do you think

1514
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:23,359
would have be more open to having a bigger ten coalition?

1515
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:28,600
He or I, Yeah, I think it would be me.

1516
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:35,600
He called He decided it's me. He called pro Israel people,

1517
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:38,880
he called them, he called them all kinds of names.

1518
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:43,920
I mean, like if you are not you know, if

1519
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:47,079
you're like a you know, not totally pro Israel, not

1520
01:20:47,119 --> 01:20:48,880
a neok on whatever. I think there has to be

1521
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:51,479
room for that group in a coalition on the right.

1522
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:53,199
I asked. There has to be a group of pro

1523
01:20:53,279 --> 01:20:55,199
Israel people in the right, even though they're on a

1524
01:20:55,239 --> 01:20:58,600
ton of left, I guess, but there's still a significant faction.

1525
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:02,239
Tucker's the one who wants to get rid of Christian Zionists.

1526
01:21:02,319 --> 01:21:05,319
He says it's a heresy. He hates them more than anyone,

1527
01:21:05,359 --> 01:21:09,680
more than pedophiles of Satanists or any Calm down a bit,

1528
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:12,479
I don't want to come.

1529
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:16,359
Speaker 2: He's hyperbolic in how he talks he's very like he

1530
01:21:16,399 --> 01:21:20,520
immediately goes to the extreme, but is also shown himself

1531
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:23,239
to be kind of open minded in talking to other people.

1532
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:26,479
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about there, He's only open.

1533
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,359
Speaker 2: You just said, you put it this way. Like he lies,

1534
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:36,560
he will speak in a hyperbolic fashion on I've listened

1535
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:37,960
to many of his podcasts, and.

1536
01:21:39,680 --> 01:21:41,720
Speaker 1: I think he lies. But my point more is that

1537
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:43,960
he brings on people to lie and then you know,

1538
01:21:44,079 --> 01:21:46,359
lets them do it when he knows it's false. Can

1539
01:21:46,359 --> 01:21:48,159
I say something quick about Tucker I read a piece

1540
01:21:48,159 --> 01:21:50,720
from him today, but from I'm sorry from Politico. He

1541
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:52,880
wrote in twenty sixteen about Donald Trump. It's like one

1542
01:21:52,920 --> 01:21:54,399
of the best things I've written. I think he's like

1543
01:21:54,399 --> 01:21:55,279
a masterful writer.

1544
01:21:55,359 --> 01:21:56,680
Speaker 3: I know he's a small good writer.

1545
01:21:57,199 --> 01:22:01,000
Speaker 1: That's why we know something's we or something weird is

1546
01:22:01,039 --> 01:22:05,279
going on with him. This is not a person who's thoughtful, really,

1547
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:11,159
And I don't think he wants a coalition of Israel supporters. Yeah,

1548
01:22:11,199 --> 01:22:14,920
I don't accept it. I don't think he'd accept Christian Zionists,

1549
01:22:15,039 --> 01:22:15,720
which is there.

1550
01:22:15,800 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 2: Very non interventionists, and he seems to have had a

1551
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:24,800
focus on Israel. Yes, but he's not an interventionist with everybody.

1552
01:22:25,039 --> 01:22:27,560
It's not just that he's not an interventionist when it

1553
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:32,199
comes to Israel, so he he's been leaning into that

1554
01:22:32,239 --> 01:22:33,000
position more.

1555
01:22:33,319 --> 01:22:34,439
Speaker 3: What I wanted to say.

1556
01:22:34,319 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 2: Was that one of them, I'm not proud to have

1557
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:40,239
once identified as a libertarian. It's kind of embarrassing how

1558
01:22:40,319 --> 01:22:43,680
late in life I was still identifying as a libertarian.

1559
01:22:44,079 --> 01:22:47,000
But one of the things I liked about that phase,

1560
01:22:47,039 --> 01:22:49,680
of that lengthy phase of my life was there was

1561
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:52,159
just like a culture of being okay with talking about

1562
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:55,399
any argument. Nobody was you know, someone could come up

1563
01:22:55,399 --> 01:22:59,279
with really outlandish claim and they would just be heard out.

1564
01:23:00,119 --> 01:23:02,800
And I do think we could use just like a

1565
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:06,640
tad more of that right now as we battle through

1566
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:10,359
some of these issues and just don't fear some of

1567
01:23:10,399 --> 01:23:15,760
these conversations and win through the quality of our ideas

1568
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:18,720
which we have. I think it shouldn't be that hard

1569
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:22,479
to win. And you but we're good at it too.

1570
01:23:22,359 --> 01:23:25,119
Speaker 1: So I am not interested in really litigating if rape

1571
01:23:25,159 --> 01:23:27,520
is good or if Hitler's good. I think it's crazy

1572
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:28,840
that you can say that hold on.

1573
01:23:29,199 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 2: You sometimes need to, you might not want to, but

1574
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:36,439
if people are embracing really odious ideas, and the rape

1575
01:23:36,439 --> 01:23:39,159
thing is a great example to slavery is good. Like

1576
01:23:39,239 --> 01:23:41,760
you might be like, this is preposterous. We've advanced past this,

1577
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:43,720
we shouldn't have to do it, but there you are,

1578
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:46,520
and you need to. You need to make the cues again,

1579
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:48,720
and it's okay, Like, don't freak out about it, just

1580
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:50,800
make the game again and just not freak.

1581
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:53,560
Speaker 1: Sad about that. I'm not freaked out about the person

1582
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:56,399
making saying that because there's no real intellectual reason for

1583
01:23:56,439 --> 01:23:58,279
them to say it to other than to piss off

1584
01:23:58,319 --> 01:24:01,920
boomers or to like I said, moral pornography. That's the point.

1585
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,840
It's provocation, just for provocations.

1586
01:24:05,039 --> 01:24:07,840
Speaker 3: They didn't have a good education because they were cated

1587
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:09,439
an impersion the school.

1588
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:13,880
Speaker 1: The problem for me is normal I hate using that word,

1589
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:17,159
but normalizing that sort of discussion when we should be

1590
01:24:17,199 --> 01:24:19,039
way past that, Like why don't we start talking about it.

1591
01:24:19,079 --> 01:24:21,960
Pedophilia is okay? I mean just because someone says it,

1592
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:24,479
maybe they have a big audience on Twitter on well

1593
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:25,239
by the way.

1594
01:24:25,159 --> 01:24:26,920
Speaker 2: Or how about we don't and we live now in

1595
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:28,920
a world where people are doing.

1596
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:30,920
Speaker 1: It right and relative.

1597
01:24:31,279 --> 01:24:33,279
Speaker 2: But my point is you need to keep fighting the

1598
01:24:33,319 --> 01:24:36,399
battle over and over and over again. We don't get

1599
01:24:36,399 --> 01:24:39,239
an escape from it. We have to fight evil wherever

1600
01:24:39,279 --> 01:24:41,079
we see it, and we just have to keep doing it.

1601
01:24:41,159 --> 01:24:43,239
And other people might not handle things the way you

1602
01:24:43,239 --> 01:24:45,439
wish they would. You just keep fighting.

1603
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 1: It's the LEPs moral relativism that made that be normalized

1604
01:24:50,479 --> 01:24:52,520
and happen, and now you have to beat it back.

1605
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:54,399
The right should not be doing the same thing in

1606
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,640
some other ugly way. In my view, all right, we're

1607
01:24:57,680 --> 01:24:59,000
just going in circles. But I think it was a

1608
01:24:59,000 --> 01:24:59,720
good conversation.

1609
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:04,279
Speaker 2: I yell at each other, which is good, Well, I do,

1610
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:06,439
I do think so. I think people are very discouraged

1611
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:09,039
having seen this and it's been such a mess. They

1612
01:25:09,119 --> 01:25:14,079
should feel some optimism that this will produce a good

1613
01:25:14,119 --> 01:25:19,640
outcome here at some point, and having the relitigation that

1614
01:25:19,680 --> 01:25:22,439
you hate should produce some good results.

1615
01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:25,520
Speaker 1: I think it doesn't look like we're head in that direction,

1616
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:27,760
but we'll see. I am, I am. I should say

1617
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:30,000
just to leave on a positive note for this conversation

1618
01:25:30,079 --> 01:25:33,039
that I am happy that there was blowback to what happened.

1619
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,000
It shows me that there I think there are more

1620
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,039
and more people willing to say, okay, let's do it

1621
01:25:38,119 --> 01:25:43,000
let's have this debate, right, I think Trump really glues

1622
01:25:43,079 --> 01:25:43,960
most of it together.

1623
01:25:44,399 --> 01:25:47,199
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and like, yeah, he's gone, it's kind of

1624
01:25:47,399 --> 01:25:49,640
it's gonna it's when he's gone.

1625
01:25:49,560 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 3: It's going to be a mess.

1626
01:25:51,079 --> 01:25:54,359
Speaker 2: And so the more that we can manage some of

1627
01:25:54,399 --> 01:25:58,079
this stuff or like work through it now, it's probably good.

1628
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:02,239
Speaker 1: Okay, mom, let's talk about culture. Do you have anything

1629
01:26:02,279 --> 01:26:02,720
this week?

1630
01:26:03,079 --> 01:26:04,039
Speaker 3: I don't really I had.

1631
01:26:04,239 --> 01:26:06,760
Speaker 2: I have been so busy and I had some medical

1632
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:10,720
issues and so I haven't done anything at all whatsoever.

1633
01:26:11,119 --> 01:26:17,840
I traveled to Los Angeles and I was actually out

1634
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:22,199
here doing a Prager You book talk with Michael Knowles,

1635
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,399
which i'll talk about when like it probably won't come

1636
01:26:24,399 --> 01:26:27,239
out for months and months, but we read through the

1637
01:26:27,279 --> 01:26:29,439
book We by Guinny Zimya.

1638
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:31,680
Speaker 3: Oh you like that book.

1639
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:34,600
Speaker 1: I haven't read it in many years. I remember being

1640
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a very good or maybe a Norwellian dystopian world that

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sort of thing, right, Well, you say.

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Speaker 2: Rowellian, but he wrote it twenty oneth so he's kind

1643
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:46,680
of like the original, the father of dystopic fiction. So

1644
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I reread that, which was fun to reread. And you

1645
01:26:49,319 --> 01:26:51,920
can listen to my book talk when it comes out

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here in a couple of months, and gosh, I have like,

1647
01:26:57,439 --> 01:27:02,239
oh no, I think we already talked about that. Did

1648
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I talk about the show? I think we did already

1649
01:27:04,159 --> 01:27:08,039
talk about it. Yeah, the the Magnum p I or yeah,

1650
01:27:08,239 --> 01:27:11,760
the Island thing. Okay, yeah, So I watched a few

1651
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more of those, but it wasn't it's not really that great.

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Speaker 1: I have nothing really either. I watched I continued watching Foundation.

1653
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I was so into it that I'm like remembered how

1654
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much I loved the books, even for even it's so anyway,

1655
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:27,760
I started reading the books. But what's funny is there

1656
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Paul Krugman's favorite book because it's about this massive technocracy.

1657
01:27:32,159 --> 01:27:37,159
Uh yeah, technocracy is that right where you know, equations

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01:27:37,199 --> 01:27:39,439
can tell you the future and every you know, controlled

1659
01:27:39,439 --> 01:27:41,359
by government and this and that. For me reading it's

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like dystopia. For him, it's like pat you know, utopia.

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01:27:44,199 --> 01:27:47,920
But it's such a well thought out world and book

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01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:50,680
and it it and and then the show takes ideas

1663
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:54,000
from him, but you know, it's not exactly really faithful

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to the novel or anything. But anyway, Isaac Asimov's Foundation,

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and he's got a bunch of sequels, one thing. I

1666
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:03,039
actually have a podcast that I've been listening to that's

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really good for music lovers. I think it's called Life

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01:28:07,199 --> 01:28:10,840
of the Record. What the guy does is he takes

1669
01:28:11,079 --> 01:28:13,720
he interviews everyone in a so he'll take a record,

1670
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twenty fifth anniversary of a record, whatever, and he'll interview

1671
01:28:17,199 --> 01:28:19,720
everyone in the band who's alive and get really in

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01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:21,720
depth on each song. Where did the lyrics come from?

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01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:22,640
How is it recording?

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01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 4: Like?

1675
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:25,560
Speaker 1: He talks to them. Really good Life of the Record.

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01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:28,439
If you're into music, I think you will enjoy it.

1677
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:31,680
And if you'd like to email a show, please do

1678
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:34,920
so at radio at the Federalist dot com. You'd love

1679
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:37,079
to hear from you, and we'll be back next week.

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Until them be lovers of freedom and anxious for a friend.