WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.279 And welcome on board everybody. We appreciate you joining us 2 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:06.120 for another edition of mid Rats and put forward the 3 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:08.599 altar call if you happen to be with that esteemed 4 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.480 cohort that is with us Live if you'd like to. 5 00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:13.880 We've already got a few folks that have jumped into 6 00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:17.199 the chat Kent Nec and a couple of brothers. That's 7 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:20.359 a great place, especially for today's show that if you 8 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:22.920 have some observations you want to share, or even some 9 00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:25.719 issues that you would like addressed during the course of 10 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:28.039 the show, that's the perfect place to do it. You 11 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:30.359 got to leave and run off. If you don't already, 12 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:35.000 you can go over to Spotify, iTunes, Spreaker, wherever you 13 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.359 are and pick up the show where you might have 14 00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:40.960 to have left us by subscribing to the podcast. It's free, 15 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:42.840 don't cost you a penny, and it's the best way 16 00:00:42.840 --> 00:00:45.280 to keep up with you. And when I mentioned about 17 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:48.560 the extra joy of the chat room, that's because today 18 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.479 is in our free for all format. Mark and I 19 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:55.159 have some ideas that we want to chat about, and however, 20 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:58.759 we are open to questions or topics that you might 21 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:00.359 want for us to bring up during the Horse of 22 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:02.840 the day, and I'll be watching the DMS on Twitter 23 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:07.040 and we'll all be watching the chat room there on Riverside. 24 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:09.000 So we're going to go ahead and dive into it. 25 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:11.200 Because we cheated, we did a pre show. I think 26 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:14.040 we do want to talk about. So hey, Mark, good afternoon, 27 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:16.120 and why don't we kick it off with what you 28 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:17.959 and I both wanted to pick at, which is the 29 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:22.120 topic that remember us being very skeptical about back in 30 00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:25.519 the previous decade when Maybus was second now and that 31 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:28.400 is how exactly big is our fleet? 32 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:31.599 Yeah, it's a some Some people may have noticed that 33 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:36.959 John cud and I had a He cited an article 34 00:01:37.719 --> 00:01:39.840 that had question, you know we had a three hundred 35 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:42.879 ship navy or something. Anyway, he said we had about 36 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:47.000 two hundred and thirty USS ships that his worships, and 37 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.719 I said, it not that high. Basically, we have eleven carriers, 38 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:54.719 sixty eight subs, nine cruisers, maybe seventy eight destroyer, seventy 39 00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:59.959 six destroyers, which I think includes the DDG one thousand, 40 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:02.400 which I think is a three ship group that we 41 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:05.560 don't know what to do with, twenty six lcs's, and 42 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:09.080 then we have eight mine warfare ships and several lcs's 43 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:11.439 are going to be going taking over that role with 44 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:14.400 their new mine hunting system that's finally coming to effect, 45 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:17.080 what fifteen twenty years later than they should. And we 46 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:20.360 have thirty four amphibs, and you can add all the 47 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:22.199 numbers anyway, done at it, we don't have that many 48 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:27.439 ships surface ships to fight. And then those sixty eight 49 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:33.719 submarines I referenced, those include the the SSBNs and the 50 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:38.719 ss gns. So how many of those are actually attacked submarines? 51 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:41.280 You can do the math yourself, but the navy is 52 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:43.879 not as big as many of us think, particularly if 53 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:47.520 you subtract the thirty four amphibs. You don't and you 54 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:54.240 and as John pointed out, you don't count the auxiliaries 55 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:57.319 which are operated by military Seal of Command and manned 56 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.639 by siv mars. So you know, and it depends on 57 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:04.199 how you want to count things. And the LCS accounting 58 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:08.680 as a worship now we've they've been improved, but you know, 59 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:11.280 there's a question there as to what we're actually doing 60 00:03:11.319 --> 00:03:11.919 with those ships. 61 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:14.599 I resigned myself to the fate of LCS years ago, 62 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:16.919 but when you look at numbers, you really have to 63 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:19.000 even if you want to be fair two thirds of 64 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:21.840 a ship, because she's not kind. A multi mission ship 65 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:25.360 has a lot of limitations. If many years late after 66 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:28.240 commissioning the first one, if they were really that useful, 67 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:30.199 we'd see them a lot more. So you've got to 68 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:33.039 be careful with that. And I think another thing did 69 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:36.879 especially when you look west towards the world's now largest 70 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:40.120 navy with the People's Republic of China. Unlike China, we are, 71 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:45.080 by requirement, a two ocean navy. The PRC can at 72 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.520 their luxury stay east of Singapore and south of No 73 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:51.759 Malaska and just focus on the Pacific. We don't have 74 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:55.039 that luxury. Regardless whether we have a conflict to the 75 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:57.280 west of US or conflict to the east of US. 76 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.879 We can't totally abandon one ocean or the other. So 77 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:04.639 that rarely is a situation that I think I was 78 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:07.599 going to say, that is a situation that you can't 79 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:11.199 really appreciate unless you take out the map and look 80 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.199 at that. And that impacts the amount of numbers of 81 00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:18.319 actual warships that you can take west to the International 82 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:20.480 date Line if we have to, and if you want 83 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:23.560 to break those down by those ships that actually carry 84 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:27.199 usable offensive weapons. That means you have a VLSSELL that 85 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.639 fits something more larger than a hell fire missile that 86 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:34.040 even necks it down further. It's not a gnashing of 87 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:36.759 teeth or rending a closed things. But I think it's 88 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:40.000 important that we, as in all things, that we're honest 89 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:43.439 with ourselves and we're very upfront by what type of 90 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.839 battle fleet we can actually put west to the international 91 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:49.959 date line. Because those who play in the game, they 92 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:54.360 can whisper sweet nothings to each other in a hushed voice, 93 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:58.240 but they understand what's between the lines. However, a lot 94 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:02.600 of the civilian leadership in this country, they they don't 95 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:06.879 have that nuanced understanding. And they see two eighty two 96 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:09.879 eighty five preten whatever number you want to put up there. 97 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:13.120 They think that's the actual number of warships that we 98 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:15.639 could take west if we had to. And even if 99 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:18.839 you're optimistic and use you it takes three to make one, 100 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:21.319 or Brian McGrath says it's more like four or five 101 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:25.279 to make one. That's a very realistic number that I 102 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:28.839 don't think that we are as open to each other about. 103 00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:31.360 And the PRC has similar limitations when it comes to 104 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:35.879 maintenance but there are certain characteristics about our nation and 105 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:40.360 our requirements that's distinctly different from our greatest challenger in 106 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:40.800 the Pacific. 107 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:44.360 Yeah. And what's happening is that, you know, we, because 108 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:46.879 our ships are so expensive even take so long to make, 109 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.680 we're beginning to look at people suggesting and rightfully so, 110 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:54.639 you know, stopgap measures to get a force that can 111 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:58.279 supply our fleet when it goes across the ocean. And 112 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:01.560 that's part one. Part two, fend our own shores and 113 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:04.040 take up pick up the slack of what would be 114 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:07.279 left behind when when all our big gray halls go 115 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:10.439 someplace else. And so there was an article in Proceedings 116 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:14.600 called crash Fleet Emergency ship Building Program by Lieutenant Commander 117 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:17.759 Brian Adornato, US Navy Reserve, and he, you know, he 118 00:06:17.800 --> 00:06:19.879 makes some good points that there are a lot of 119 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:23.319 ships in reserve. We don't these days. Platforms don't matter 120 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:25.639 as much. There are a lot of ships off when 121 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:28.920 you I've argued for years about these offshore platforms. Were 122 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:33.519 used them to prototype the unmanned surface vessels. But you 123 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:35.639 know they can be manned. They can you can put 124 00:06:35.720 --> 00:06:38.160 weapons systems on them. Our weapon systems aren't like the 125 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:40.920 old days where he had a sixteen inch gun mount 126 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:44.439 that required you know, eight decks and the huge storage 127 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:46.759 bind We have other things that can fit on these 128 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:50.319 smaller units and would provide homeland security along with the 129 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:52.800 coast guard units that are out there. You know, the 130 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:56.040 the the whole effort the Navy itself is making to 131 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:01.600 do unmanned stuff is important. By x posts today on 132 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:04.839 the number of ship boat builders in the United States 133 00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:07.680 are like forty three hundred of these of these companies 134 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:10.839 making small craft. You know, if we really cranked the 135 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:14.160 levers and every one of those produced ten craft that 136 00:07:14.240 --> 00:07:17.000 the Navy could use and convert to unmanned and arm 137 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:19.759 up in some way. You know, that's that's that's a 138 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:23.480 forty three thousand unit size unmanned stuff. Then you can 139 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:26.439 use these ampibs for something useful, which is to help 140 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:29.240 tote those things across the ocean where they could be used. 141 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:32.560 They're they're low cost snuffs since they're generally made out 142 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:34.839 of fiberglass, and we're taking lessons here from the bog 143 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.120 ammers of the the Iranians. But you know, we could 144 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:40.560 we can weaponize those things, use them, and they are 145 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.000 as expendable as anything much more expendable than say the 146 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:48.399 old pt Boat movie with John Wayne and Robert Montgomery, with. 147 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:51.120 A couple of the systems that we already have developed 148 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:53.199 and we've talked about here a few times, like the 149 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:58.759 Mark seventy thick system, container eyed missiles that can carry 150 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:01.920 a couple of tea lambs are an S and six even, 151 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:05.040 and there's a few other variants of things. I mean, 152 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:08.759 there's even a maritime version of the iron Dome system. 153 00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:11.399 And of course you always have the bolt On anti 154 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:15.079 ship cruise missiles for NSM and harpoon, and we have 155 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:18.439 the portable which is pretty much what the piratee system is, 156 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:22.120 is the Mark forty one VLS and a container, and 157 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:25.199 it melds up pretty well. With that innocent question I'll 158 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:29.800 put up earlier, is just saw an a notice about 159 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:35.960 the HCMS Sacksville, which is a Canadian Naval Museum ship, 160 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.480 which was which is one of the surviving Flower class 161 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.440 corvettes that before the Second World War was a type 162 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:45.200 of whaler, and there was as we always find out 163 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:47.600 when war takes place, we don't have enough ships to 164 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:50.639 cover second and third tier missions. In this case, it 165 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:53.879 was convoy escort and it wasn't a perfect solution, but 166 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:57.200 it was a ship that was already in production. Everything 167 00:08:57.279 --> 00:08:58.840 was done. They just need to modify it. And they 168 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:00.600 did a good job in the core of the war. 169 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:03.279 But every time the ship came in, the good idea 170 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:05.879 fairy came down to the pier, not just with ideas, 171 00:09:06.039 --> 00:09:08.000 but with boatloads of stuff that they were going to 172 00:09:08.039 --> 00:09:10.879 improve on it. So they did nice iterative improvements during 173 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:12.519 the course of the war. And so I put out 174 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:14.519 a question, you know, what type of ships do we 175 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:17.080 have that the engineering work is done. They can be 176 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:19.960 produced all over the place in number. Are not a 177 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:23.240 perfect solution, but we'll displace water and you can slap 178 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:27.200 some weapons on it. And our favorite yardbird Byron he 179 00:09:27.320 --> 00:09:29.519 mentioned what always is in the back of my head, 180 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:31.120 and I think we've talked about it here before, and 181 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:36.159 those are the platform supply vessels, offshore supply vessels osvs, 182 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:41.399 things such as the people use for construction support. They 183 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:45.240 use them a lot to the offshore hydrocarbon, oil and 184 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:49.240 gas wells. And they're they're interesting ships because they go 185 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:52.759 from one hundred and fifty to three hundred and thirty 186 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:57.200 feet long. They have the superstructure and the accommodations forward. 187 00:09:57.240 --> 00:09:59.919 But then because they bring a lot of equipment back 188 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.440 and forth to the platforms, they have a huge flat 189 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:07.879 area in the back that is easily customizable with a 190 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:12.080 little bit of imagination and some weld qualified people. And 191 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.639 I think that is the right answer. If a balloon 192 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:16.240 went up somewhere and all of a sudden, we had 193 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:18.960 a big requirement that we didn't have time to have 194 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:22.159 a five year development cycle and three years to build, 195 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:24.000 and it had to be perfect, and it had to 196 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:27.840 meet all of navisty seas exquisite requirements. We just needed 197 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:30.080 holes in the water that can carry something forward. I 198 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:32.720 think that's the right answer. We probably also would give 199 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:35.080 us an opportunity not just for building them, but there 200 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:37.720 are a lot of them out there on the civilian 201 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:40.960 market in the place of in case of a real 202 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:44.320 national emergency, Uncle Sam can can take what it needs 203 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:46.440 to execute. So I think that's probably what we would see. 204 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:50.480 The modern version of the Flower class corvettes and similar 205 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:53.480 vehicles would be those offshore supply vessels. 206 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:56.960 Yeah, and that follows along the fineavy tradition of calling 207 00:10:57.080 --> 00:10:58.799 up like in World War One. I think they have 208 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:03.080 yachts and other private former you know ship's boats that 209 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:06.039 were being used for anti submarine operations. They'd fit them 210 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:08.679 up with a couple of I guess depth charges or 211 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:11.039 something and maybe a deck kun of some kind and 212 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:13.559 let them and turn them allers looking for submarines. You know, 213 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:15.759 that wasn't the best program in the world, but sometimes 214 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:17.200 you just got to do what you got to do 215 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:19.360 that would work. You know, an article that I talked 216 00:11:19.399 --> 00:11:21.000 about from proceedings I'll put a link up on our 217 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:23.200 website or eventually says there are three hundred of those 218 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:27.000 offshore vessels right now that are are sitting idol. You know, 219 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:29.159 it wouldn't take a genius to say, you know, if 220 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:31.639 they're sitting iidol, we'd probably buy them for or rent 221 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:34.120 them for a song, harm them up, and then all 222 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.480 you need to do is find the people to operate them. 223 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:39.320 And I suspect if we got that many sitting idol, 224 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:43.759 there's some some offshore crew guys who would like to 225 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:47.279 earn some extra money, being chiefs or first class petty 226 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:50.399 officers or ensigns in the Navy, who you could organize 227 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:54.200 into squadrons and have them operate to provide some assets. 228 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:55.720 Do a lot of the jobs that we're now doing 229 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:57.840 with DDGs and even nlcs. 230 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:00.559 Yeah, and you can. You could poop poo their cabildies 231 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:02.200 all day long if you want to. But we're not 232 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:06.799 building frigates. We're not building destroyers for first tier missions. 233 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:09.960 And if you read back in my base of my thirties, 234 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.600 I read every first hand account I could get hold 235 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:15.799 of of the both US and German U boat and 236 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:18.679 submarine skippers in World War Two, as when they are 237 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:21.080 out there operating and doing what they did so well, 238 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:24.840 if they had a submarine chaser, or the Japanese had 239 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:26.559 a lot too, or one of those trawlers that they 240 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:32.320 knew was equipped with depth depth charges, they reacted as 241 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:34.440 if they did have a destroyer coming down on it, 242 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:37.720 because yeah, it may only carry you know, a half 243 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:42.240 dozen to fifteen anti submarine depth charges, but it only 244 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:45.120 takes one to knock out a sub And it's the 245 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:47.480 same thing if you have a bunch of ships out 246 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.600 there that aren't carrying you know, one hundred and twenty 247 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:54.519 eight land attack cruise missiles, but they are carrying a 248 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:56.960 half dozen of something that might be interesting, and you 249 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:00.440 have twenty of them, that really complicates an enemy because 250 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:03.279 now they no longer have this body of water. I 251 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:05.559 don't have to worry about or this line of approach. 252 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:08.279 I don't have to worry about it. It makes their 253 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:11.919 job much more difficult. Numbers matter, even if it's not 254 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:14.799 a first tier ship. Think the love the teenth and 255 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:18.360 nineteenth century definitions of I guess it hurt people's feelings 256 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.879 that we don't use them anymore. First class, second clap class, 257 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:24.240 third class, fourth class ship. And then you had your 258 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:27.159 brigs and your sloops, and they had a very diverse, 259 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:31.120 worse set of tools to choose from. And those empires 260 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:32.519 pretty much cover the globe with them. 261 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:35.480 Yeah, and it's you know, we get worried about things 262 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:38.840 like escorting ships across the Pacific. And I think I've 263 00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:43.879 said before that if you using modern aviation technology, which 264 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:47.559 means long range patrol planes and putting helicopters on the 265 00:13:47.600 --> 00:13:49.960 decks of some of these vessels you're trying to get 266 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:52.320 across the ocean, and many of them already, especially our 267 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:55.480 military seedlift command ships, many of them already have flight 268 00:13:55.559 --> 00:14:00.559 decks and can support and sustain helicopter operations. Know, those 269 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:02.960 helicopters can drop SOUNA buys you can you can, and 270 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:05.600 they can drop torpedoes and depth charges and things, so 271 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:08.600 you can you can escort vessels using that most of 272 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:11.279 the way across the Pacific. And that's probably most of 273 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:13.840 the way is good enough because the range of the 274 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.759 current Chinese submarines is such that they're probably not going 275 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.399 to to be bothering us too far east of the 276 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:21.360 International Dayline. 277 00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:23.200 Yeah. But and I think again, you know, you have 278 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.639 to look to prior conflicts, how regards how long they are, 279 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:29.960 ago to look at various conops. And I think you 280 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:32.639 made a very good point is there's not unlike what 281 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:35.879 we did in the Pacific. Everybody likes to talk about 282 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:39.399 the jeep carriers and the light carriers. Yes, you know, 283 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:42.320 everybody knows Tappy three. They were used in frontline, but 284 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.759 a lot of what they did was just burying aircraft 285 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:48.559 across the ocean. That you had a couple of JEP 286 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:51.000 carriers that carried a squadron to two and they would 287 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:53.679 get west of the Midway and Wake Island until they 288 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:55.480 got in range of the fleet carriers and then the 289 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:58.919 air wings would fly off to their to replace combat losses. 290 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:02.679 You had, I forget the technical term, maybe you know 291 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:07.960 it the tanker relay system where the tankers would come 292 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:11.039 off the West coast and would meet the fleet tankers 293 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:13.960 somewhere in the Pacific and transfer their loads, and that 294 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:17.279 made it much more efficient fight forward. So if we 295 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:21.240 have a low density threat east of the International Dateline 296 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:23.480 or east of Guam, wherever you want to draw that line, 297 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:27.320 that requires an escort, John Conrad, your concern, as we've 298 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:30.279 talked about for years, Yeah, maybe you can't afford to 299 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:33.480 have a DDG out there, But what if you had 300 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:39.039 a good enough former all shore supply vessel that had 301 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:44.039 enough service to air missiles to handle. If the Chinese 302 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:46.120 were lucky enough to get a unit or two out there, 303 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.919 or had the ability should a submarine show up or 304 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:50.919 something they think as a submarine, can go out there 305 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.120 and at least make it go away, just like our subchasers, 306 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:57.039 hence the name chased away submarines. They sunk a few, 307 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.399 but they got mission kills on a lot more. It's 308 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:04.000 an idea that has been used before with great success. 309 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:06.759 Technology has changed, the challenge has changed, but I think 310 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:07.919 the logic remains sound. 311 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:10.159 Yeah, I don't. I don't have any problem with that. 312 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.639 I think that the challenge is that we have to 313 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.960 quit thinking that everything has to be perfect and we 314 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:18.679 just need good enough for a lot of this. And 315 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.480 somebody was talking about we'd have to to h on 316 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:24.759 the chat the same way we would have to give 317 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:27.600 physicals to all these guys that want for the offshore crew. Well, 318 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:30.559 Cirrosi's deliver is not a big issue if you're only 319 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:32.519 going to use these people for four or five years. 320 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:35.399 But I'm not sure whether medical other medical issues. We 321 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:37.679 want people who know how to operate the boats are 322 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:39.840 and are good enough sailors. They can they can do 323 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:42.039 the job, and are motivated to do the job. You know, 324 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.279 it's one of those things. And you know, we also 325 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:46.480 have to be aware. And John, there's an article that 326 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:49.759 John had in this Marine Corps thing that I can't 327 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:52.559 Marine Corps University publication. I'm going to put the link 328 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:55.200 up here a minute. I'll called carriers and amphibs and 329 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:57.679 he's talking about that, you know when and you you 330 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:01.240 mentioned it earlier. When civilian leadership of the Navy they 331 00:17:01.279 --> 00:17:04.279 think of carriers and amphibious ships, and that is a 332 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.720 problem for us because he also points out in this article, 333 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:11.440 as many others Sampton Greedy Tan Greedy for another name. 334 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:14.240 You know, we've got a problem. They going after the 335 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:18.519 Chinese in their backyard is a hard, hard problem. And 336 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:22.000 our carrier aircraft don't have range, and we don't want 337 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:24.480 to put our carriers and arms away because they're expensive 338 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:26.440 and have a lot of people on them. So and 339 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:31.400 when're amphibs, they're slow, they're not well equipped defensively, and 340 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:33.880 we're going to put thousands of marines and equipment on 341 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:37.400 these things and send them east or west in this case, 342 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:40.640 that is that's a problem. And he's pointing out that 343 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.400 maybe we don't. That's not the navy we currently need. 344 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:45.240 So we really need to think. But we need to 345 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:47.799 think fast, because we don't have enough time to be 346 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.279 messing around with the waiting for the perfect solution to 347 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.720 our shipbuilding problems. When we have solutions that will be 348 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:57.759 would present a challenge to any enemy. As I said, 349 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:00.839 if you put forty three thousand small boats out there 350 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:03.079 that are armed and we can control them, and I 351 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:07.039 believe we could do that, then that that creates incredible 352 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:09.599 issues for anybody on the other side. And they don't 353 00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:11.319 even have to be I mean, they could just carry 354 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:13.559 they could go out and sink on purpose and be 355 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:15.920 and lay minds that way if you had nothing else 356 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:18.839 to do, you know, let's let's let's make things hard 357 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.279 on the on the other folks. 358 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:22.960 And I'll repeat what I think I've been saying every 359 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:26.359 third show now also because I think the concern is 360 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:28.200 where we going to get the people to man then 361 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.799 we don't have a huge emergant fleet roger that acknowledged. However, 362 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:33.880 one thing we do have in the Navy is actually 363 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:36.680 what we don't have is the Army and Air Force 364 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:41.440 do a great job of repurposing the experience they have 365 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:44.640 when people leave active duty to take them into the 366 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:48.480 National Guard, the reserves, and the Air National Guard doing 367 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:50.480 pretty much what they did on active duty, but on 368 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.680 a part time basis. The Navy Reserve, we don't re 369 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.240 don't recapture a lot of our experience at all. So 370 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:59.319 a little bit of imagination and uh, maybe a funding 371 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.119 line you could you could fill a lot of that gap, 372 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.680 or at least do some experiments out of a couple 373 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:07.559 of coasts. Nor iFolk would be a great place San Diego, 374 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:09.079 where you have a lot of people who leave active 375 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:12.359 duty and stay who might actually enjoy a reserve gig 376 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.839 that has a ship attached to it. 377 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:16.720 Yeah, I was. I was CEO of a mobile inshore 378 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:19.519 undersea warfare And for those of you unfamiliar with that, 379 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:23.039 it is a command information a combat information center in 380 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:25.960 a box. So we had radars, we had we had 381 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.000 a sonar. We took SONA buoys and dropped them and 382 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.279 we you know, you can run those things if you 383 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.880 can do that from a shore base, and we could 384 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:37.119 also be mounted on a on a offshore vessel. Did 385 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:39.759 some operations with the Coast Guard and some other people, 386 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.640 and that provides the kind of asset you need because 387 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:46.440 it's the same same SONA. If I'm not too far wrong, 388 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:48.880 it was in your p threes and you know that 389 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.200 may not be the current technology, but it wouldn't be 390 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:54.640 hard to bang together some of those things again and 391 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:59.359 use those to make the undersea aspect, the ASW aspect 392 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:02.200 of using commercial type vessels viable. 393 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:05.960 Especially some of our frontline allies, like our allies and 394 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:09.640 friends like the Filipinos or even the Taiwanese, they would 395 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:11.440 love to have somebody walk off a plane with that 396 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:14.279 ability take this bay and make me feel more comfortable 397 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:14.599 with it. 398 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.640 Well, my point was that that we have former sonar 399 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:21.640 techs that and if they want to be in the reserves. 400 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:24.599 There aren't too many reserve billets for sonar techs here. 401 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.599