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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasikos, I am Dan Valley coming at

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you with a brief intro what you're about to listen to.

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Grant and I discussed the NBA TV ratings interest three

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point discourse. There was a riveting discussion happening in our

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discord go join that. It's the podcast in the two description.

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I did not know about it when he asked me

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if we could rip it riff on it. I did

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not see the discussion and we ended up going basically

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the length of a full episode on it. So I

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hope you enjoy it. Let us know what you think

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again in discord or the YouTube comments. Thank you as

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always for your support and since this is the last

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episode will be releasing before the holidays start coming at

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us fast and Louis, or as they're coming at us

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fast and loose. Happy holidays to you and yours in

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whichever holiday you celebrate. But now let's talk some NBA

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TV ratings, the thing that everybody just wants to discuss

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around this time of year. Let's talk about everybody's favorite topic,

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NBA TV ratings. Yeah right there here, For it does

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seem like it crops up anecdotally, like once or twice

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a year that this ratings thing or the way the

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game is played, or why it's not generating more interest.

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I think it's a more nuanced discussion than people they

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try to boil it down to three point attempts or

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why people aren't watching or certain mediums. I'm just curious

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your thoughts, grit. It's out there. I'm not even a

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site of specific source. It is everywhere, including before I

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throw it to you, from the league's media partners that

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are just like out there talking about this in a

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weird they talk about the NBA in a weird lights.

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I'm just curious, where are you at with this discourse

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over not just NBA ratings, but the state of the

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NBA game and overall interest in it.

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Speaker 2: So to take the ratings thing first, I think, like

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I guess, I just wonder at a threshold level, like

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is this actually a concern? I guess, And to your point, like, yes,

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it is a topic of discussion with what percentage of

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NBA fans and the audience. Is it actually something they've

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thought about? Right, Like because we're in the silo, right,

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we're in the echo chamber now, like the commissioner's talking

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about it, but It's like, what out of out of

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every ten NBA fans that watch a handful of games

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every year, like, do nine of them like not even

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know that ratings are being discussed? Like do they? Like

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I get I think what we do sometimes is we

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have an amplification problem. Like that's true of like every

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That's one of the core problems of social media and

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all this other stuff is like every opinion gets treated

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like it's equally loud and it can get amplified depending

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on what silo or echo chamber you're in. So like,

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I don't know that the ratings thing is as big

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a deal as it's. Like Adam Silver like shouldn't have

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to talk about it. I don't think or if he does,

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he should like anyone that says, oh, the ratings thing

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is a problem, it's it's bad for the league. Nobody's

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watching anymore. It's like my shutdown of that would just

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be some version of like, yeah, you're you're right. The

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biggest media companies in the world, who have all the

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resources and incentives and motivation to figure out what the

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NBA is worth, we're wrong to spend tens of billions

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of dollars to have the rights to broadcast to stream

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it going forward, Like you're correct, ratings are a problem.

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All these multi billion dollar companies that just spent a

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lot on it are wrong. Like I just think, Like,

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isn't that dispositive of the issue, Like is it doesn't

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any talk about TV ratings? Just stop mattering when the

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league just signed the biggest TV deal it ever, the

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biggest rights deal it ever has. Like, clearly these companies

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have information that suggests to them there's enough growth potential

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and it's popular enough to spend all this money on.

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Like what why are we still talking about this?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I honestly don't know, especially in the aftermath leading

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up to it. Okay, sure, sure, but the people that

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have predicted and I saw these predictions, by the way,

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before the last TV deal was sign up, the NBA

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is not going to be a league in ten years

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or something.

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Speaker 2: It happens all the time.

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Speaker 1: I do think one of the problems is and I'm

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probably I won't speak for you, I'm probably guilty of

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this too, of being too dismissive to people that have

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these counter opinions, probably because I'm tired of hearing them.

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So people have them and their fans like who I

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just don't know fans that actually care about ratings, like

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if you're not watching, if you decided I'm not going

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to watch the NBA, so you're part of the ratings problem,

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Like why are you caring about it? Then? But in

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so far as you care, we probably need to be

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receptive because fans do drive the interest level in the game.

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But I just so much of it seems disingenuous. And

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the thing that I struggled to wrap my head around

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is my second point, the way these ratings are measured,

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Like do we what's the efficacy level of encompassing all

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the different forms that the way in which the games

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are consumed, where it's across all these different platforms. We're

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going about the death of regional sports networks basically how

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are they tracking it beyond just regular television? But also

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like how are you tracking it there? And then Amazon

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of course effort going in on an MBA package has

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to have other datas like how are these ratings factoring in?

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And the other thing I wonder too, is that the

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NBA has tried to make itself more marketable to the

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younger generation, and that lends itself to I guess a

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lot of highlight culture or consuming on social media or

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via YouTube. How do you track that in the interest

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level in that I'm not saying there's not a problem,

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but I'm just saying, like the way that everything is

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consumed has changed, and that I think companies understand that

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maybe the ratings are going down like relative to years past,

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but we live in such a different world now to

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the way that stuff is consumed. Whereas live sports, even

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if they're generating a smaller share of average viewers, like,

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they're still the one thing that bring people together around,

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like I'm going to tune in at this time to

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watch this thing. We don't have appointment viewing television anymore.

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And I also think, before I throw back to you,

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I don't want to hear comparisons to the NFL. The

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NBA doesn't have the same scarcity of product, right that

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every game in an NFL regular season accounts for what

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five or six percent.

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Speaker 2: Shorthanded it matters, Yeah, And so.

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Speaker 1: If you want the NBA to shorten the season, that's

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an entirely different discussion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think, like you can be objectively right and

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say ratings are down if what you mean is fewer

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people watch full games on TV like that, Sure, that's

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fewer people align on what they watch on TV, just

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across the board, like you talk about just think about

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like I don't know, the finale of Friends got like however,

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like more you know, it's tens of millions and viewers

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and like I don't know, just because there were fewer

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things and now everything is so dispersed that like it

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just you're never going to see that again. So like

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you can be right, But if if you're using that

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argument about the ratings to say the league has a

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crisis of fan interest in some regard and then we

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need to look at like what's causing that, and that

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gets you into like ohgenous offense two many three's all

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this other stuff. I don't think you can say that

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because conventional TV ratings are down there is a crisis

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of interest. And I would just say again, like maybe

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I'm being naive, but I don't think you would have

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a bidding war that topped out at the crazy numbers

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it did for the rights to NBA games and content

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if there were a crisis of fan interest, Like I

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just don't think you can make that connection. It's because

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you're right, Like it's just being consumed differently, and that

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does not involve sitting down for two hours and watching

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a game like it used to. And that's like not

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at all surprising given the way that everything is consumed

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now certainly compared to how it used to be. So

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like that does get into some of the unless you

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have more to add on the ratings thing, like the

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state of the game stuff that Lebron is talking about

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that talking heads all across the board are bringing up,

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and Adam Silver's talking about like all the three point

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stuff like do you do you? Are you again? I

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think you're right to say people are saying that and

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do think that, So we shouldn't be totally dismissive of it.

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And I'm guilty of being extremely dismissive of like both

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the ratings and the like threes are a problem conversations

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because I just disagree. But like, so if we're gonna

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charitably engage with those arguments like where are you on

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the threes thing, on the state of the game thing,

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and on it being like a problem we need to address.

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Speaker 1: So, as you mentioned, us being in our silo, it

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gets difficult because when I'm watching I forget. I don't

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watch any NBA games right in my mind when I'm

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dreaming watching NBA games, I don't, Yes, there are teams

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that are trying to take the same shots the methods

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by which they get there. I don't feel like I'm

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seeing all this repetition specifically across thirty teams, but let

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alone across Oh there are like even ten five to

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ten teams that play exactly the same way, and I

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think that there are probably Maybe that's worth a podcast,

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like rule changes the NBA could consider, but like getting

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rid of the corner three as an example, just no,

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that would just cram up the floor so much. I'm

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more receptive to should the floor be expanded so that

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the corner three, then we might be taking away court

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side seats, but that is longer. I just think I

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can't remember who likened it to this. But do you

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get annoyed in the NFL that running backs are standing

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in a different position now than they were years ago?

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And that's kind of what's happening with the NBA, where

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it's players know to take steps back rather than in,

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especially if they're not dribbling with the ball or playmakers.

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I'm oversimplifying this. Yeah, I totally understand, but I don't

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the homogeny of NBA offense or NBA play style, It's

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non existent. It's like the shot profile. Okay, threes have

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gone up, but like the game has changed, we have

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more skill than ever. Teams are built in all these

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different ways, and a lot of the clips you see

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going around are also just like garbage time, where okay,

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if there's gar garbage time, do you want to have

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a conversation about parody? There's also when's the less time

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there was this much parody where you might say that

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there are two or three teams that you were Tier

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one title contenders. How many Tier two title contenders do

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we have right now? Or how many teams can you

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talk yourself into making a conference finals? There's real parody

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half the league easy and I can't help but thinking.

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I have another question on this for you, But I

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can't help with thinking. Do you think this comes down

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to if you view this as a problem, are we

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then because I did say we shouldn't be dismissive? There

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are smart people who do feel this way. The too

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many threes argument, for instance, I just I'm totally against

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getting rid of the corner three. I don't know where

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you land on that okay.

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Speaker 2: So before you ask the question, I want to there's

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two points I want to hit that you brought up.

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The first is the offense is homogeneous like that. That's

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not true. That's wrong. I think, like, I don't know

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if you've seen all the recent discussions about Memphis offense,

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where essentially, like the pick and roll took over basketball

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fifteen twenty years ago, became ubiquitous. Everybody was running pick

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and rolls and even now like ball screens and handoffs.

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Credit to Ben Taylor who did an awesome video about this.

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I'm thinking basketball, Go watch it about the Memphis Grizzlies offense.

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So Memphis is running essentially like forty three pick and

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rolls or on ball screens and handoffs per game this year.

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That's like half of the league average. So Memphis is

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doing something that is wholly unique like that their offense.

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Draymond Green talked about it after a couple games ago

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the last time they played him, is like, he's like,

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nobody plays like that. Basically, like they they run this

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unique space and drive and replace and rotate offense that

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does not involve on ball screens. And it's like if

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you're watching that and then you're watching a pick and

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roll heavy team and you say offense is the same

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because they're generating threes out of both of these, Like

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that's that's absurd, Like the process is could not be

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more different. The end goal, because of math, is to

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shoot a lot of threes, and okay, cool, that's just

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how you optimize offense. So one offenses are not the

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same two. If you're saying there are too many threes

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and we need to change the dimensions of the court

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or move the line back or whatever, okay, let's be

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receptive to that. But what is it you want to

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look different? Do you want there to be more long

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twos because that's what you'll get? Like that, I think

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that's what's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: If you move the three point line back, like the

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RF back, are you even gonna get more long tours

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or you're just going to get even like more dramatic

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spacing than you have right now.

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Speaker 2: It depends on the fix. Moving the lineback might not

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be the best example, because I think you're right, you

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just would get more space, more threes, more whatever. But

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like I think it was on dunked on they were

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talking about like if you look at the historic shot

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frequency data before everybody was taking a lot of threes.

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The percentage increase in three point attempts basically pulled only

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from long twos. What like rim attempt rates and short

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mid range stuff has been pretty constant as percentage of

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shot attempts. But what you're trading are long twos for threes,

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and so, like, I think you need to if you

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don't like the three point volume, you need to make

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the specific suggestion that is going to result in a

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changed offensive landscape that is not a bunch of long

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twos because you're not going to eradicate jump shots. Like

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and also, this is the last thing I'll say, And

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sorry for discord people who were having a great discussion

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before we started recording. I'm just going to regurgitate.

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Speaker 1: I think like.

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Speaker 2: You if you say this is a broader point, I guess,

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but we'll apply it to basketball. If you say, like

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you liked how bald was played in the eighties, nineties,

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two thousands, whatever, because it wasn't just guys chucking up threes,

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I think you got to think pretty hard about like

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how old you were when your formative experience with basketball happened.

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Because your favorite music is still from then, like your

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favorite movies, your favorite whatever happened between a certain age range,

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and that's when you were just more emotional and receptive

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to stuff and like codified like I like this, It

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doesn't mean it was objectively better. That's just one thing

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to think about when we're asking for like I wish

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it was how it used to be.

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Speaker 1: Just the myth of nostalgia.

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Speaker 2: Sure, sure, exactly good good, good label to put on it. So, like,

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I think you got to be careful when you're talking

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about threes being a problem with just saying that and

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not considering what some of the changes to limit threes

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would do to the product, and assuming that fewer threes

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would make it better. I just think what you might

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be trading for would make the game worse potentially, because

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there's not really a lot of evidence to suggest that

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fewer threes would lead to like more wide open dunks

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or like good post ups or you know, I don't

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know that you want to.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that you can engineer.

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Speaker 2: Those types of things, and I don't know that you

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necessarily want to, because like watching eighties or nineties or

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early two thousands game and that's not a fun experience.

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Speaker 1: It's slow.

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Speaker 2: It's if there's a bunch of guys out there that

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are unskilled. Like we've really made it so that every

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position is skillful now. So I don't know to stop

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there because I've gone for too long. But does any

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of that resonate with you?

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Speaker 1: Am? I does?

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Speaker 2: Like like what like? I just don't understand the knee jerk.

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Too many threes thing?

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Speaker 1: Right? And look to back up your point, So let's

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go back more than twenty years to two thousand and three,

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two thousand and four, which is as far back as

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cleaning the glasses. Data is right now, eighteen point three

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percent of all shot attempts came as three pointers. That

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number this year is thirty nine percent of all shot

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attempts for three pointers. That is a draft that's more

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than double. It's a drastic difference the rim frequency. Again,

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in two thousand and three two thousand and four, thirty

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one point five percent of all shots came at the rim.

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This year thirty two point five percent of all shots

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come at the rim. The shots that have left too.

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I'm just backing up your point that there was.

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Speaker 2: No data because I was being vague about it.

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Speaker 1: It was it was long tuos and I here's the

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other thing, and this maybe ties into the nostalgia aspect

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of it or maybe not. And this is not I'm

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not I'm really I'll speak for my own experience here

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the game now, I feel like it's harder to understand

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because there are all these different things happen I think offensive.

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So generally everyone says it's they're just trying to drive

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and kick, or they're dribbling off the floor or dribbling

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up the floor and shooting. They're not look at all

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the stuff that's happening away from the ball. But here's

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what I'm saying, that can be hard to track because

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the game, it's a faster paced game. It's not football.

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There's not all this time in between downs to break

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down a play, and then there's all these games that

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are constantly coming at you. Do you think there's anything

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to the effect of And I really am promising not

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to say that I think anybody is stupid, that's not

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my point here, but that there is just an over

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saturation of the product on top of all these different

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complexities that it's easier to simplify it down to. Well,

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the problem with the NBA is this, it's all these

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threes rather than is there even time? Because look, we

341
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criticize media partners a bunch, and where media partners receive

342
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a ton of criticism and a lot of it is fair.

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You could talk about the game differently, but I think

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we're some people have missed the mark. And JJ Reddick's

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been a really big advocate for this, and I agree

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with a lot of what he recently said, but he's

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also come across and maybe we've sometimes too of condescending

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of people who don't consume that exact type of content

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or watch the game in that way. Is the NBA?

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And I'm also not trying to make excuses. I'm not

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trying to give the NBA carte blanche and say coverage

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is perfect, the game is perfect, and I'm not trying

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to call people stupid. But do we just have this

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weird expectation of what the game is supposed to be

355
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and even maybe what different types of coverage are supposed

356
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to be? Because when you have eighty two games of

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such a like I don't tune into hockey, but like,

358
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are they breaking down like that's a fast paced game?

359
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Are you able to break off all the nuances of

360
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what's happening away from the puck with different players, when

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you don't have as much time in between all these

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different possessions, when there are so many games coming at you.

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I just I find too much of this coming back

364
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to I think, like the NFL being mentioned the ratings

365
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discussions just isn't even worth mentioning there. But when it

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comes to what we've seen ESPN like cater do a

367
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certain demographic of NFL where there's this mark coverage, I agree.

368
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I'm just wondering how much that level of coverage resonates

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with the normal fan when the time investment I think

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would have to be greater because there's not as much

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when you're just following a team or trying to cover

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the whole league, and there's not as much time in

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between games. I think it makes it harder on everyone's

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behalf the fans, the media is I think it's just

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a little bit more difficult.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all right.

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Speaker 1: I think like so, I agree.

378
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Speaker 2: I thought what JJ Redick said was was mostly right about.

379
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You know, part of the problem with this perception that

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the NBA is struggling with viewership or or people are

381
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criticizing style of play has to do with like, you

382
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just don't under you don't get it, and like the

383
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way that it's being talked about is a result of people.

384
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I'm going to be negative about this because I don't

385
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like I don't understand it, and so that's hard to

386
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not conflate with like that is talking down. I would say, like, well,

387
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,839
can't can't We still just defer to the opinions of experts,

388
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of people like JJ Reddick that wanna that understand what's

389
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happening and want to talk about it intelligently and not

390
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,279
knock it because one you don't understand it, and two

391
00:19:15,319 --> 00:19:18,079
it doesn't look like the NBA that you remember best

392
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from from years ago. At the same time, like, if

393
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it were true that the league was actually suffering as

394
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a result of fans not liking the product, then you

395
00:19:30,599 --> 00:19:33,160
can't ignore that anymore. I think, to circle all the

396
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,279
way back, you can't convince me that that the NBA

397
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,079
is struggling because fans don't like the product. I don't

398
00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,960
think that's actually a true. That's not a baseline truth

399
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,880
we can start making decisions off of.

400
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Speaker 1: And there's also this is my final thought on the

401
00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:50,160
entire matter, is and as a super peak behind the curtain.

402
00:19:50,279 --> 00:19:52,880
Let's look at how this podcast changed over the past

403
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,519
few months. The amount of time we were investing in

404
00:19:55,599 --> 00:19:58,319
creating shorts, editing them, coming up with ideas for them,

405
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,440
it was exponential. Now we've punted on them and the

406
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,920
whole point of shorts for us. It didn't make us money.

407
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All it did was drive in new members of the

408
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audience that I don't know what the conversion was on.

409
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Are they listening to the content that Grant and I

410
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enjoy consuming if we're consuming other content or creating the

411
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most and we made the active decision to stop, and

412
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it's we're here. I want the show to grow. I

413
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think we're incredibly underrated in my totally unbiased opinion, But yeah,

414
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I want the show to grow. But like, we have

415
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an audience built up over a period of time though

416
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that's the like, those are the people that we want

417
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to reach because they're the people that have been interested

418
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in us for X And I'm not saying the NBA

419
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,119
shouldn't want to draw in new viewership, but do you

420
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,839
think there's something too I'm liking it. Back to Mott,

421
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,039
I shouldn't say your crazed focus on it. I kind

422
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of forced you down the shorts rabbit hole for like

423
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a year, but like that focus on drawing in more

424
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and more and exponential growth. Do you think that's part

425
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,880
of the problem here where it's are we just not

426
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,400
catering enough to the people that do enjoy the game

427
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,000
of basketball? And that might touch upon maybe an excuses

428
00:20:58,039 --> 00:20:59,839
the ratings, but it certainly touches upon like, well, then

429
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,160
there is room for a wholesale shift in coverage.

430
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Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to not talk about it like all

431
00:21:06,759 --> 00:21:10,720
as a piece now, So I would say it would

432
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be a I would be concerned if the league as

433
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a result of believing that fan interest is dropping or

434
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not growing, If the league is convinced that fan interest

435
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,599
is not growing because fans broadly speaking do not like

436
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,759
what the product is anymore, or like too many three's,

437
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:33,440
whatever criticisms are out there, If the league starts making

438
00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:39,680
rule changes because there is what I think is like

439
00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:42,680
a too vocal of a minority or a minority that

440
00:21:42,759 --> 00:21:46,880
is being too loudly amplified talking about this, this, this,

441
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,960
the criticisms being made about the style or whatever. If

442
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the league makes changes to the product based on that

443
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,279
in the face of I think broader information that it

444
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is in fact growing, then that's really the problem where

445
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,160
you're making decisions because you're you're bending to like the

446
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,559
wrong forces. I think, so, like, yeah, you want to

447
00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:10,480
grow as a product. That's that's especially as with as

448
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,640
many stakeholders as something like the NBA has, and any

449
00:22:13,839 --> 00:22:16,400
any business of any size, you want to grow because

450
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,880
that's just you know, you're growing or you're dying. But

451
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,279
I think that's just not the way to make the

452
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:24,759
best product all the time. Like right, Like if you

453
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you want to appeal to something to a broader base,

454
00:22:27,559 --> 00:22:32,720
like okay, then everybody becomes the Big Bang theory or whatever,

455
00:22:32,759 --> 00:22:35,359
and you don't have you don't have like you know,

456
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,960
better done TV shows that appeal to a smaller niche

457
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of fans.

458
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Speaker 1: I don't know.

459
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Speaker 2: I think the growth over everything model is a problem,

460
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and I would hope the NBA is smart enough when

461
00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:51,160
I saw I read Adam Silver's comments about it, like

462
00:22:51,559 --> 00:22:54,359
we're taking these we're thinking about these things, We're we're

463
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,400
listening to these concerns about the All Star Game, for example,

464
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,039
we're taking steps. He els their game is an exception

465
00:23:01,079 --> 00:23:03,599
because they are changing it. But that's every that was unanimous.

466
00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:07,119
Everybody agreed it needed to change players apparently.

467
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

468
00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 2: I viewed what he said as what a smart lawyer

469
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,680
would say, which is, we're taking that under consideration, we're

470
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,160
thinking about this, we hear you. He didn't say anything

471
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other than we're going to look at it and make

472
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the best decisions we can. I think he realizes the

473
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,519
game is doing great and I need to appease people

474
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that disagree, but I'm not going to make any real changes,

475
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and so I just that's kind of how I took that,

476
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and that's kind of how I feel about it overall.

477
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: Do you think it's problematic or do you just write

478
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,000
it off as like Lebron just having about of hypocrisy

479
00:23:42,279 --> 00:23:46,160
where he, like unprompted, brought up the three pointers the

480
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,319
other day that there's too many of them. And I'm

481
00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:50,079
not saying Lebron is right, because I think he's wrong,

482
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,240
but like he's also so he wants that to change back.

483
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,680
There needs to be a change there. But the NBA

484
00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:58,960
then changed the All Star game format and players have

485
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,880
shit all over it. So it's if Lebron Lebron specifically

486
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,279
saying it was bad, and I think he did acknowledge,

487
00:24:04,279 --> 00:24:06,440
like I guess they made change, and change isn't always good.

488
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,240
But at the same time, like you can't say, like

489
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,359
this is wrong, we need to change it, and then

490
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,039
they try to do something to change it and immediately

491
00:24:14,079 --> 00:24:15,039
say it's it's the end.

492
00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:16,279
Speaker 2: I haven't it yet.

493
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: But it's also the NBA Cup. We're two years into it.

494
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,000
It's not going to mean anything, and maybe look, maybe

495
00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:24,519
it flops and you can never get teams to care

496
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:27,200
about it. But like we can't just say after like

497
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,880
you can't try something, give it in the NBA's lifespan,

498
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,319
give it a millisecond, and then just no, it sucks,

499
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,440
it doesn't work. And so I just wonder if for

500
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,680
even the people that are complaining or think that they

501
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,240
want change, do you think that that I don't know

502
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,039
if that change is going to actually play Kate anyone,

503
00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:45,440
because then there'll be people that are mad that they

504
00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:47,960
made the change to play Kate, these other people that

505
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,400
maybe didn't like Washington League is closely so they're I

506
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,599
want to be clear, I think because people are saying

507
00:24:53,599 --> 00:24:56,279
it when when you do have like maybe the best

508
00:24:56,279 --> 00:24:58,279
player of all time saying it, but then it kind

509
00:24:58,279 --> 00:25:00,640
of falls into the bucket of if you've Lebron is

510
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,039
like in quasi retirement when you hear all these former

511
00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:05,599
players criticize him. The game today is Lebron just entered

512
00:25:05,599 --> 00:25:07,480
that phase of his existence.

513
00:25:07,599 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: That was my very first thought is that, Yeah, that's

514
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:11,000
kind of what that felt like to me.

515
00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:13,759
Speaker 1: It's it's an issue because I do think that there

516
00:25:13,799 --> 00:25:15,960
are enough like it's something to talk about. But it's

517
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,039
probably the Adam Silver response. It's like, yeah, we're listening

518
00:25:18,079 --> 00:25:19,599
to it, but that doesn't mean we're going to implement

519
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,799
changes because I don't think the state of the game

520
00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:24,400
is as dire as people think. I think the thing

521
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,880
growth over everything, as you said, And I also just

522
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:31,799
feel like we probably haven't adjusted our expectations or embraced

523
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,319
nuance the way we should when we're talking about things

524
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,480
such as shot distribution or ratings at a time when

525
00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:42,160
consumption is so decentralized, just so decentralized.

526
00:25:42,279 --> 00:25:43,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a good way to end it.

527
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,519
Like I just complaints are always going to be aired

528
00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:50,799
louder than like approval. I think generally speaking, that's part

529
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,839
that's maybe that's what we should have started with. Is

530
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:57,480
it's not news if if Steph Curry comes out and says,

531
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,240
I kind of like how the game has evolved.

532
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: It suits me.

533
00:26:00,319 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 2: It's going well, Like I think everybody's contracts are bigger,

534
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:03,720
We're all making more money.

535
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:04,279
Speaker 1: That's cool.

536
00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:07,039
Speaker 2: That's never going to get as much amplification as Lebron

537
00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:09,359
saying there's too many threes or Kevin Durant saying the

538
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,519
All Star Game sucks. So that's as a culture, that's

539
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:15,519
a problem we have in general. But yeah, I just

540
00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:19,319
think let's if you don't like the game as it is,

541
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:21,720
I think you're in the minority. Just that's what the

542
00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:25,640
numbers and the investments and the skyrocketing revenues and franchise

543
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,640
valuations say. Everybody seems to like the product pretty well.

544
00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:30,640
Doesn't mean you should stop trying to make it as

545
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,319
good as it can be. But let's just be a

546
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,920
little more thoughtful and not quite as reactionary, and let's

547
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,200
be more nuanced about what that means.

548
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,759
Speaker 1: Let us know what you think in the comment section

549
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,880
of that What is Up, Fellows, Tako's I am damn

550
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,279
Valley coming at you all by my loansome to talk

551
00:26:46,319 --> 00:26:51,880
about the one, the only, the wildly disappointing, upsetting your curial.

552
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,200
Whatever you want to call them. Twenty twenty four, twenty

553
00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,119
five Sacramento Kings working off their fourth consecutive loss the

554
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,480
Inana Pacers. All of them came at home, and they

555
00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:05,079
include back to back losses to the Los Angeles Lakers,

556
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,839
which is just a weird thing to happen in this economy.

557
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,960
People are sounding the alarm. The alarm was being sounded

558
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,160
even beforehand. There was a report from Tony Jones of

559
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,440
the Athletic and Sam Amik as well that teams are

560
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,799
going to be watching Daron Fox as he comes up

561
00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:23,000
for He's been extension eligible for a while, he declined

562
00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:26,079
one this pass offseason. Teams are wondering whether he is

563
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,079
going to ask for a trade. His agency, Clutch Spoords,

564
00:27:29,079 --> 00:27:31,160
already met with the team, so of course that becomes

565
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,000
headline fodder. I don't read too much nothing. I don't

566
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,440
read too much into the Aaron Fox stuff just now,

567
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,400
but we can get into whether we think that they

568
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,440
should actually be looking at a darn Fox trade independent

569
00:27:42,519 --> 00:27:45,400
of has he asked for out. But he will be

570
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,519
eligible for a four year, two hundred and twenty eight

571
00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:51,079
point six million dollar extension this coming offseason. I still

572
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,559
view that as the most likely reason that he was waiting.

573
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:55,279
That could of course go up to five years in

574
00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:57,359
three hundred and forty three point three million if he

575
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,440
makes an All NBA team. We'll see if the Kings

576
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,359
are good enough. Where's voting isn't hurt by that, but

577
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,960
he's look, he has the numbers to be In that discussion,

578
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,440
I saw people floating around that the issue is for

579
00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:09,319
the Kings is that the Aaron Fox isn't an All

580
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,599
NBA caliber player, And I just disagree. If you're saying

581
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,240
he's not one of the ten best players in the

582
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,079
NBA and therefore can't be the best player on a contender,

583
00:28:17,319 --> 00:28:19,880
it's not really an insult. They're just so the most

584
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,640
The vast, vast majority of the NBA falls into that bucket.

585
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,200
But there's clearly something going on in Sacramento. And I've

586
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,160
been a proponent of patients with them. Their vitals say

587
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,119
that they could be a better team. When I watch them,

588
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,039
I feel like I see these stretches of they could

589
00:28:34,079 --> 00:28:37,240
be a better team. I think what's most uncomfortable about

590
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:39,599
where they're at now, which again, as we record this

591
00:28:40,079 --> 00:28:44,359
thirteen and seventeen twelfth place in the Western Conference, their season.

592
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,079
We like to frame things in terms of doom and

593
00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:48,759
gloom and relative to expectations. I know fans are mad,

594
00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:50,839
I know analysts have killed them, and they pretty much

595
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,160
deserve everything for the most part that I have seen said,

596
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,920
they are still just a couple of games in the

597
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,920
lost colmback of the plan, But you don't want to

598
00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:03,160
enter Christmas essentially being four losses out of ten place

599
00:29:03,519 --> 00:29:06,359
in the Western Conference, where the only teams that have

600
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,279
a worse record than you are the New Orleans Pelicans,

601
00:29:09,279 --> 00:29:11,559
who a lot of people can't even if I gave

602
00:29:11,599 --> 00:29:15,599
you five guesses to tell me the three most played

603
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:17,920
players on that team. I bet you most people would

604
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,279
get it wrong than the Utah Jazz and the Portland

605
00:29:20,319 --> 00:29:22,880
Trail Blazers, neither of whom we're trying to win. Now,

606
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,359
it's a terrible spot in which to be and I

607
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:30,559
think what's most uncomfortable about it is it's no one issue.

608
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,759
It's a confluence of issues with the players, with the

609
00:29:33,799 --> 00:29:36,480
coaching staff, with the front office. Of course, I think

610
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,960
you could argue that they might deserve the most blame.

611
00:29:39,359 --> 00:29:41,640
And you're sitting there and thinking, Okay, this is a

612
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,480
team that's ninth in offense. Now, even after that disaster

613
00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:48,400
against the Pacers, that was a second half to behold, folks,

614
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,200
if you're a Pacers fan anyway, So your ninth in

615
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,319
offense and your fourteenth in defense filtering out garbage time,

616
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,000
that's not Again, that's not the worst spot spot to be.

617
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:02,599
And you're still fourteenth in point differential on the season,

618
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:05,079
so it doesn't look like that's the worst spot to be.

619
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,440
But when you dig into their actual record, it's a

620
00:30:08,519 --> 00:30:12,400
terrible spot to be, and you start to get into

621
00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:14,759
all of the issues that are plaguing them on the court.

622
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:16,799
And I know a lot of people are citing the

623
00:30:16,839 --> 00:30:19,279
shot profile is an issue. On the offensive end, they

624
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:21,680
are dead last by a mile in rim and three

625
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,039
point at ten frequency. It also does not help that

626
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,839
Kevin Herder Keegan Murray specifically, they're two most important shooters.

627
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:30,799
I think you would argue from beyond the arc, you

628
00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:32,319
could throw them a leak monk into there, and de

629
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,599
Aaron Fox, of course, who's below thirty four percent himself.

630
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,720
That stuff all matters, but Keegan Murray and Kevin Herder.

631
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:41,839
Murray's been mostly down from beyond the arc, where Herder

632
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,000
he's had He's had some injury luck caked in there.

633
00:30:44,039 --> 00:30:48,160
He's been more up and down. But when those dudes

634
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,640
are shooting so poorly from three in net, it diminishes

635
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,279
what was already like a really thin margin for you.

636
00:30:55,559 --> 00:30:57,799
And so when you look at it per one hundred possessions,

637
00:30:57,799 --> 00:31:00,559
the Kings are losing the three pointers made a battle

638
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,400
by about three. It's a little bit less. But so

639
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,799
you're just giving up nine points per one hundred possessions

640
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,720
right there. You're not winning in more of the macro categories.

641
00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:14,599
You're not winning those by enough to just overright that

642
00:31:14,759 --> 00:31:18,160
margin you. And look, some of these buckets will overlap

643
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,920
with one another, but they're a plus two plus zero

644
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,400
point two points per one hundred. When it comes to

645
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,240
turnover scoring versus their opponents, there are plus one point

646
00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:28,440
two points per one hundred. When you get into second

647
00:31:28,519 --> 00:31:31,480
chance opportunities, there are plus two points per one hundred

648
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:34,119
in transition and a plus three point eight points per

649
00:31:34,119 --> 00:31:36,680
one hundred in the paint. And while DeMar de Rosen

650
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:39,200
has certainly helped their ability to get to the found line,

651
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,799
there are plus zero point two again in free throws

652
00:31:41,839 --> 00:31:44,559
made per one hundred possessions. Again, some of these can overlap,

653
00:31:44,599 --> 00:31:47,079
certainly the turnover scoring, the points in transition, points in

654
00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:50,920
the paint, but you're not obliterating teams by any of

655
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,799
those margins to where we can just write off and say,

656
00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:55,160
all right, well they're minus nine from three point from

657
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,880
three point range per game. That's not the end of

658
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,720
the world. If you're spotting teams nine points per one

659
00:31:59,759 --> 00:32:01,799
hundred possessions or for an entire game, however you want

660
00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:04,519
to frame it, that's a really big problem. And I

661
00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:08,039
think that's that certainly albed them. And now would they

662
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:11,359
be in a different position had Kevin Herder and Keegan

663
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,400
Murray played some better games, been hotter from beyond the arc. Yeah,

664
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,119
you're probably talking about a couple extra victories. They're also

665
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,559
a team that they have played more crunch time minutes

666
00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:22,839
than anybody this season. Their record in those spots, which

667
00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:25,599
I think is down to six and twelve, is not great,

668
00:32:25,759 --> 00:32:28,839
and you start to really get concerned there where you

669
00:32:28,839 --> 00:32:31,400
could say, well, that will flip. But at some point

670
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:34,680
we're getting to the thirty game threshold. Teams are what

671
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,160
they've told us they are, and the Kings are kind

672
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,240
of screaming that they're mediocre and I have issues with

673
00:32:41,279 --> 00:32:44,640
the offense. I think the defense could probably be an

674
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,960
even bigger concern, though, as could some of their rotations.

675
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:52,319
I mean, I still don't understand the lack of Keon

676
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,359
Ellis Keon Ellis usage here, or at least the inconsistent

677
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,400
deployment of him where it just seems like he can

678
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,799
play a huge role. One game he log against the

679
00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:03,720
Pacers five minutes, and there's just been too many instances

680
00:33:03,759 --> 00:33:07,759
of that or something similar across the board this season.

681
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,480
And I think the top heaviness of the Kings has

682
00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:13,240
also hurt them when you're looking at who their most

683
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:15,559
important bench players are. Do they go more than seven

684
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:20,039
trustworthy players? Deep? Absolutely not at this point. I've seen

685
00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:21,880
a lot of people say that, well, Keon Allis, if

686
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,000
he was bigger, it'd be a different story. I don't

687
00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:26,119
care whether you think Keon Elis is six three or

688
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,880
six six. He's still one of your best defensive options.

689
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,119
He's been one of your most effective three point shooters

690
00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:33,119
on wide open looks this year. I get you want

691
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,680
him to be more aggressive. He looked more aggressive, and

692
00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:38,119
I think it was that second Lakers game. Seems like

693
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,559
he was comfortable getting him up. I gain it's frustrating there,

694
00:33:40,599 --> 00:33:43,119
but he also brings something to the table that you're

695
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,440
not getting from well, I mean, let's use Kevin Herder.

696
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,640
It's the low hanging fruit. Let's use Kevin Herder as

697
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,359
an example. Who has been the worst shooter this year,

698
00:33:51,759 --> 00:33:54,440
but just by percentage, Kevin Herder. Who's the worst defender

699
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,559
Kevin Herder. And so that shouldn't even be a debate

700
00:33:56,599 --> 00:33:58,759
in my mind. But let's give credence to this idea

701
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:02,839
that maybe keon el isn't big enough. This roster construction

702
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,160
isn't new to the front office. You looked at your needs.

703
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,400
I know what Derozen brings to you. Over the offseason.

704
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,360
I thought we were pretty much neutral, saw the risks

705
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,679
other rewards of bringing Tomarto rosen In as that other

706
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,000
shot creator. But to look at this roster and say like,

707
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:18,760
we don't really need any other wings, then if you

708
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,920
think that Kean Ellis can't qualify as a wing defender

709
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,960
or someone who's gonna log a bunch of minutes for

710
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,719
you consistently, that's on the front office for them doing

711
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:31,000
what this past offseason. Even use the Devin Carter draft

712
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,880
pick that no one expected them to have because they

713
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,239
didn't think that the Kings were going to be a

714
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,840
lottery team. Last year, you took he's injured, had the

715
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,440
shoulder issues, he might tap you soon. I will always

716
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,280
be skeptical of how rookies fare on really good teams

717
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,320
and how much they lean on. You know, there's for

718
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,079
every Jared McCain, there's just instances of and that's it.

719
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:50,880
Do you even qualify the Sixers as a good team

720
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,719
before the Jared McCain injury? I have zero idea. But

721
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,679
it's just like Minnesota Timberwolves fans counting on Rob Dialing

722
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,920
Hammer just be the answer as that secondary playmaker, creator,

723
00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:03,239
secondary guard right off the bat in his career, and

724
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,760
Timberwolves has not really used him as such, but it's

725
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,800
been tough sledting when he does. I can't look at

726
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,760
Devin Carter and say, all right, reinforcements are on the

727
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,440
way when he plays. But even more so than that,

728
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,719
if you thought your biggest need was on the wings,

729
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,599
you then drafted another six foot three guard, and so

730
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,719
what is the vision there? And you got to a

731
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,599
point very early on in the season where you felt

732
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:27,559
it necessary to hit the Jay crowder free agency button,

733
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,400
and that's very uninspiring. And I think this can also

734
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:36,559
stem back to Okay, you had that just majestic twenty

735
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,199
twenty three campaign, the Kings are back. They pushed the

736
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:40,920
Rainning champs to seven games and what was one of

737
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,480
the most entertaining first round series in recent memory. And

738
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:47,519
then you don't really do anything major over the offseason.

739
00:35:47,519 --> 00:35:49,679
You futz in fiddle, get rid of a Shawn Holmes,

740
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,960
you have bring in Sasha va Zankov that backfires. But

741
00:35:53,079 --> 00:35:56,039
to see that your team wasn't as lights out offensively,

742
00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:59,039
I'm looking at last year and then to go through

743
00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:02,199
that season and do absolutely nothing there, to wait until

744
00:36:02,199 --> 00:36:05,719
the offseason to make moves that I think addressed one

745
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,239
of your concerns while creating a bunch other a bunch

746
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,639
of other concerns or exacerbating some of the concerns that

747
00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:14,360
you already have. That's just a monumental failure on the

748
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,199
front offices part. And then you look at Okay, Mike

749
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,800
Brown specifically, I think a ton of blame has to

750
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,519
go to him, just the coaching staff in general, because

751
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,599
is he you can't kill him for the personnel that's available,

752
00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:29,800
but he does not seem like he has optimized the

753
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,159
group that is at his disposal, and the key on

754
00:36:33,199 --> 00:36:35,119
Elis playing time is going to be the harbager of that.

755
00:36:35,159 --> 00:36:37,639
But just leaning on your main guys so much and

756
00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:39,519
still trying to kind of settle on well, who am

757
00:36:39,559 --> 00:36:41,239
I going to go to and what's going to happen

758
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,840
on a night to night basis this late into the year,

759
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,639
when the experimentation isn't going all that well, and when

760
00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:48,639
the numbers all tell us that the Kings are going

761
00:36:48,639 --> 00:36:51,039
to be better with their core lineup. If Keon Ellis

762
00:36:51,079 --> 00:36:52,639
is on the floor, I think you look at the

763
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,880
Kings through the lens of okay, you have Domasa Bonis,

764
00:36:56,119 --> 00:36:58,880
you have Demartrosen, and you have Baron Fox, and you

765
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,440
have Key Murray. Those are kind of your four locks

766
00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:04,239
or your four staples, and who needs to be that

767
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,960
fifth guy in core lineups. We've seen Kevin Herder a bunch,

768
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,360
We've seen Keon Ellis some and we've of course seen

769
00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:12,280
Malik Monk. When you get into all those lineups, the

770
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,320
key on Elis one is most effective by far. It's

771
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,559
also played the least. It's a plus twenty three point

772
00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:19,159
four points per one hundred possessions per creting and glass

773
00:37:19,199 --> 00:37:21,880
when it's on the court. The issue with all of

774
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,639
those lineups, though, is that none of them solve the

775
00:37:25,679 --> 00:37:30,280
math problem. On the offensive end. They are all in basically,

776
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,960
they're all below average when it comes to rim frequency,

777
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,719
and then they're all like in the twentieth percent higher

778
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,000
or lower when it comes to three point frequency. And

779
00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:39,079
only one of those three lineups, I believe it's the

780
00:37:39,079 --> 00:37:42,079
one with Kevin Herder, is even close to league average

781
00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:44,800
when it comes to rim frequency specifically. Otherwise we're looking

782
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,920
at the twentieth percent higher or lower in that category

783
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,400
as well, And so think about that when you're doing

784
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,079
the Kings through. To simplify it even further, they're three

785
00:37:53,159 --> 00:37:57,119
most important lineups where none of them are like giving

786
00:37:57,159 --> 00:38:00,679
you enough offensive firepower from the shots that most And

787
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:02,920
even though the Kings hit their mid rangers are a

788
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,039
good rate relative to the league average, we all know

789
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:06,639
how that math problem can come out to bite you,

790
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,199
especially if you're not dominating in other areas, which the

791
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,159
Kings really aren't right now. And you can look at

792
00:38:13,199 --> 00:38:15,960
their defense, and I certainly have at points and I

793
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,800
appreciate a lot of the things they do with the

794
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,480
personnel they have. I do think they do an excellent

795
00:38:20,559 --> 00:38:23,599
job of getting back after they miss jump shots. They

796
00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:25,880
do an excellent job for the most part getting set

797
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:28,679
after they're making a shot, but they're not like this

798
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,320
super explosive or athletic team, and so on those offensive

799
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,000
possessions where they do get deep into the paint, whether

800
00:38:34,039 --> 00:38:36,079
it's a make or miss, it feels like they're always

801
00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:39,519
lagging on the defensive possession thereafter because they're not back

802
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,920
in time enough. And I think we're getting to a

803
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,400
point where, all right, it's cool that they not cool,

804
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,000
but your fourteenth in points allowed per possession, that's a

805
00:38:47,039 --> 00:38:49,559
fine spot to be if you're a top five offense

806
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,400
or better. They're not that right now. And when you

807
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,840
start to get into what separates you know, ninth from

808
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,760
fifth place, Okay, they might be close, but you look

809
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,320
at the defense and there's just a chance that it's

810
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,239
way worse than what the numbers are. Kind of screaming

811
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,400
at us. Because there's been a lot of issues with

812
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,800
their three point percentage allowed this year, there's definitely something

813
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,920
going on there. They don't give up a ton of

814
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:14,800
quote unquote wide open looks with defenders being six or

815
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,320
more feet away. But because they're so dead set, since

816
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,239
they know that they don't have great room protectors on

817
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,719
the floor, really, at any given moment in the game,

818
00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:24,599
they're going to sell out to take away those shots,

819
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,599
and that's going to cost them when it comes to

820
00:39:26,639 --> 00:39:31,039
the ground that's covered contesting three point shooters. So they're

821
00:39:31,199 --> 00:39:34,000
twenty sixth in points allowed per spot up possession. That

822
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:37,199
is really bad. And while their defense might be fourteenth overall,

823
00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:40,559
they're twenty second in half court defense, and they run

824
00:39:40,559 --> 00:39:42,800
into issues guarding the pick and roll all the time.

825
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,519
They're in the bottom five overall pick and roll defense,

826
00:39:45,559 --> 00:39:47,679
and their twenty eighth in points allowed per possession to

827
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,079
the pick and roll ball handler, specifically the crunch time evidence.

828
00:39:52,119 --> 00:39:54,000
Even I've used it as a means to say, okay,

829
00:39:54,039 --> 00:39:56,199
look this team has been close. But now you start

830
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,039
to dig into that a little bit more. And PBP

831
00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:02,480
stats has this really effective tool where you can filter

832
00:40:02,599 --> 00:40:04,760
out possessions by leverage, and so you look at just

833
00:40:05,199 --> 00:40:08,400
high and very high leverage situations, which is simply just

834
00:40:08,519 --> 00:40:12,119
how much do these possessions impact the probability of winning?

835
00:40:12,119 --> 00:40:14,280
So we're looking at the possessions in every game that

836
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,039
impact the probability of winning the most. The Kings were

837
00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:19,840
twenty third in points allowed per possession in those situations.

838
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,159
So the defense isn't holding up, which I think a

839
00:40:22,199 --> 00:40:23,800
lot of the time. Will you kind of look at

840
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,760
their core lineups and they're not on paper even if

841
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,719
you have Kean Ellison Keegan Murray on the floor, depending

842
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,199
on what version of the Aaron Fox you're getting any

843
00:40:32,199 --> 00:40:34,960
given night, are you really supposed to be the only

844
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:38,320
defensive unit? Still? Those are going to be concerns, And

845
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,199
you knew that these were going to be concerns and

846
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,960
you did nothing to address them, and you could go

847
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,760
to other solutions. I don't know what the most the

848
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,840
most nuclear option, not the most nuclear, maybe the most

849
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,760
nuclear without making a roster change, would be can we

850
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,920
bring to Martin Rosen off the bench and see what

851
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,239
this team looks like in that vein? Politically? Will they

852
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:58,800
get away with that? Would they be able to do it?

853
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,559
How would de Marta Rosen feel? I have zero idea,

854
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:03,199
But they're also going to need to find a way.

855
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:08,199
Then maybe it's starting to roseen and more drastically staggering

856
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,519
the units in in which they're deploying players because one

857
00:41:12,519 --> 00:41:14,440
of the biggest issues for this team when you look

858
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,599
at the offensive end two and they could stand to

859
00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:18,880
be a lot better, is because of the way defenses

860
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,639
are guarding them right now, where you don't have these

861
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,440
caps lock three point threats. In terms of again not

862
00:41:25,559 --> 00:41:29,039
just efficiency, but really high volume on the court. It

863
00:41:29,119 --> 00:41:33,639
makes life harder on anyone you're looking at just like

864
00:41:33,679 --> 00:41:36,880
the shot quality of these players, and you can look

865
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,519
at b Ball Index as a tool where you could

866
00:41:38,519 --> 00:41:41,159
just look at general openness rating you go year over

867
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,159
year for some of the Kings's most important complimentary players

868
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:49,119
Malik Monk, Kevin Herder, Kean Ellis even and Keigan Murray.

869
00:41:49,199 --> 00:41:52,639
Of course, their openness ratings in the half court from

870
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,360
three point range, they've been yanked down for the most part.

871
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,400
There's some noise in there where Kean Ellis has maybe

872
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,880
seen some better quality opportunities. But that's not good because

873
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,960
you've now increased your overall top end talent on the team,

874
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,599
but you've effectively made life harder for your supporting cast.

875
00:42:09,039 --> 00:42:11,239
While also saying we don't really have the margin for

876
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:13,719
error to overcome that because we're not deep enough. We're

877
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,280
not versatile enough at any end of the floor to

878
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,280
overwrite two of our top seven players working through whether

879
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,440
you believe they're slumps or in the case of Kevin Herder,

880
00:42:22,519 --> 00:42:25,639
is this just the new normal because of how just

881
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,599
uneven his performance has been quite frankly since the twenty

882
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:33,239
twenty three playoffs, and you've materially changed the way you're

883
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,079
using some of these guys as well. I mean, look,

884
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:38,440
Keegan Murray, one of the most underrated defenders in the league,

885
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,760
probably still Kings fans might just be frustrated in general,

886
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,760
but I still just believe that to be true. The

887
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,360
workload that he has shouldered since coming into the league

888
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,360
and done so while like fighting through it and actually

889
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,400
being effective. I don't think anyone had him build for

890
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,000
that coming into the NBA, including the Kings themselves. Is

891
00:42:55,039 --> 00:42:57,280
this an issue of okay, looking what's happening on offense?

892
00:42:57,559 --> 00:42:59,639
Is he gased from everything he's trying to do on defense?

893
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,800
There's also the element of two, though he is being

894
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,360
used differently, the same volume isn't going to be there.

895
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,440
Last year he finished three possessions off of handoffs. That

896
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,519
has been more than halved this year. He's down to

897
00:43:10,559 --> 00:43:12,679
one point four. It's been the same thing basically with

898
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,559
Kevin Herder, where you've seen his handoff frequency decrease by

899
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,960
basically half. And that was always going to be a

900
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,639
potential symptom of getting Tomarta Rosen and kind of shrinking

901
00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:25,159
the floor in theory in the half court even further.

902
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,199
But what have you done to overcome it? It seems

903
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,800
like you're either then playing the wrong guys or you're

904
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,199
not staggering your lineups more aggressively enough and you're leaning

905
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,599
again too heavily on your top players. But you look

906
00:43:37,639 --> 00:43:38,920
at what the Kings have done, and you look at

907
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,039
who's available on the bench in the minutes that they're

908
00:43:41,039 --> 00:43:43,719
giving to Isaac Jones or Kobe Jones, and it's well,

909
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,840
what are they supposed to do? That's where it comes

910
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,639
back to the front office, where this isn't news. Nothing

911
00:43:48,679 --> 00:43:51,440
that has happened that they had the Demarta Rosens missed

912
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,599
a little bit of time relative to the rest of

913
00:43:53,639 --> 00:43:55,320
the league. This is not a team that has been

914
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,199
gutted by injuries. Unless you expected Devin Carter to come

915
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:02,159
in here and just be excellent right off rip and

916
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,360
I don't know how you could have expected that especially

917
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,599
because they have so many of these let's call them

918
00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:11,440
guards or just non wings who also aren't forwards. Because

919
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,599
if you think that Keon Ellis is too small, do

920
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:16,760
you just believe that Devin Carter maybe because he was stronger,

921
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,199
he's not going to be too small. I'm not going

922
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,440
to buy that. And so there's an inherent roster construction

923
00:44:23,519 --> 00:44:26,119
flaw here that I think was an issue that we

924
00:44:26,199 --> 00:44:28,239
always could have seen coming. And so you look at

925
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,960
this and you say, okay, yeah, like they're four most

926
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,760
frequent or important complimentary shooters, they're not shooting well on

927
00:44:35,159 --> 00:44:37,400
semi open or open three. So any three that has

928
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,760
a defender four or more feet away. Kiya Murray specifically

929
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,639
on seven open semi open threes this year fifteen point

930
00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:46,559
one percent. That's really bad. And then in general, just

931
00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:48,920
looking at Ellis, he's at thirty one percent on semi

932
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,800
open threes, but he's hitting his wide open threes at

933
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,559
a forty five point five percent clip, so he's bridging

934
00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:55,159
the gap a little bit. A lot of those other

935
00:44:55,199 --> 00:44:57,760
guys they're not doing the same. Even if you're shooting

936
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,480
thirty seven or thirty nine percent on wide open three,

937
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,000
that's like thirty seven percent. I haven't checked this in

938
00:45:03,039 --> 00:45:05,280
a minute, but that's gonna be below league average on

939
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:09,039
wide open threes, and so to not have maybe have

940
00:45:09,159 --> 00:45:11,719
one or two go to players you can count on

941
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,480
to hit that. Look, even Daron Fox has slumped from

942
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:16,880
beyond the arc relative to what we know that he

943
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:19,039
is capable of. And look a lot is on the

944
00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:22,480
shoulders of him and de Rosen and of course sa Bonis,

945
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,760
who has actually been more efficient by and large this year.

946
00:45:26,039 --> 00:45:29,480
But those pieces, all of these pieces together, there is

947
00:45:29,559 --> 00:45:33,280
a level of counterintuition to the way this team is built.

948
00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:35,480
And I don't know the I think the problem here

949
00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:37,079
is you look at them and say, is there one

950
00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:39,760
acquisition that can tie it all together? And the same

951
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,880
names are kind of being bandied about here, Cam Johnson

952
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,880
or Dorian Finney Smith, let's just name all these NETS

953
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:48,239
players they've been tangentially linked to Kyle Kuzma, and I

954
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:53,199
think in general, like you're probably at least considering the

955
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,559
right archetype where it's hey, is there someone that could

956
00:45:55,559 --> 00:45:59,519
potentially scale across all three wing positions, the two three four,

957
00:46:00,199 --> 00:46:03,840
specifically on the defensive end. Cam Johnson, to me, of

958
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,760
those three could potentially be the most ideal just because

959
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,920
he gives you a lot of the off ball lethality

960
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,960
plus the three point shooting in general, both volume and efficiency,

961
00:46:15,039 --> 00:46:17,159
and then he's not going to be a sieve on

962
00:46:17,199 --> 00:46:20,360
the defensive end, but he's also not going to check

963
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,559
maybe enough boxes on the defensive end to get you

964
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:25,320
to say, okay, like that's just our fifth best guy.

965
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,519
And then you also have to get into the problem

966
00:46:28,559 --> 00:46:31,159
of who are they giving up to get these players?

967
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,599
And I think the package that's been bandied about is

968
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:37,000
Kevin Herder plus stuff picks? Do they need to attach

969
00:46:37,039 --> 00:46:39,199
Trey Lyles to him? What I really do think you

970
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,719
need to consider, though, is you might be fine just

971
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,159
trading Kevin Herder, and okay, are you getting back to

972
00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:47,920
someone who's going to replace enough of his three point

973
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,800
volume to where you're upgrading I guess the defense and

974
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,760
then a net neutral or better from three point range

975
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,559
that would have to be the move. And are you

976
00:46:56,599 --> 00:46:59,440
willing to give up first round equity or more? Because

977
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,320
my guess would be that the Nets don't trade Cam

978
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,360
Johnson for Kevin Herd er Trey Lyles in one first

979
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,119
round pick or any like anything that's equivalent to that,

980
00:47:07,519 --> 00:47:10,280
Are you gonna be prepared to include more when you're

981
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,679
not going to get another star? And so it might

982
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,400
be time for the Kings to maybe consider what would

983
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,079
be more seismic scenarios. Where should they be looking at

984
00:47:19,119 --> 00:47:22,480
moving mo League monk As just because primary salary filler,

985
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,000
super useful to teams could start up certainly on more

986
00:47:26,039 --> 00:47:27,719
than a handful of them. Do you even look at

987
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,280
would there be a market for DeMar de Rosen? Is

988
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,920
it worth kind of seeing? Well, what would it be

989
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,280
like if we tried to I'm not even I'm not

990
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,239
endorsing this, to be clear, I'm just this is stream

991
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,679
of conscious me throwing stuff out. Are they a team

992
00:47:38,679 --> 00:47:41,000
where it's we know Miami is saying that they're not

993
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,880
gonna move Jimmy Butler unless it's for a great offer,

994
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,079
but he's approaching free agency. If they're not looking at

995
00:47:45,119 --> 00:47:48,119
totally rebuild like does the Rosen and Herder and the

996
00:47:48,119 --> 00:47:50,400
other salary to make it work? Going in on a

997
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,800
trade like that maybe make more sense because no, you're

998
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,360
not getting a shooter there, but you're not really hurting

999
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,920
your three point volume anyway. You're helping your defense. You're

1000
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,719
giving yourself some of that same optionality on the offensive

1001
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,480
end in the half court, and you're kind of just

1002
00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:05,679
by virtue of that then ensuring that all right, like

1003
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,039
we keep Malik Monk and his importance from the perimeter,

1004
00:48:08,079 --> 00:48:11,400
and we keep Kevin Hurder, who is still conceptually important

1005
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,280
to their perimeter rotation. I don't expect the Kings to

1006
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,960
go down that route. What the Kings can ill afford

1007
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,960
to do is nothing. And yet that gets into really

1008
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,079
almost an existential question of is this season worth doubling

1009
00:48:25,119 --> 00:48:28,159
down on to give up first round equity and more

1010
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,239
to try and fix some of these issues knowing that

1011
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,159
there's probably not gonna be one player who fixes all

1012
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,559
of them. And then the answer to that is, I

1013
00:48:35,559 --> 00:48:37,760
don't know. I mean, at this rate, this early into

1014
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,079
the season, unless you're bowling a team over, you're probably

1015
00:48:41,199 --> 00:48:43,280
gonna have to wait anyway until there's will be different

1016
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,639
if giving up a first round pick a little bit

1017
00:48:45,639 --> 00:48:46,920
more than a quarter of the way through the season

1018
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,519
versus having to wait until February sixth, where it's just

1019
00:48:49,639 --> 00:48:53,639
there's less time to correct course here. If you're not

1020
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,559
bowling teams over, are they really going to accept your

1021
00:48:56,639 --> 00:49:00,400
offer for a Dorian Finney Smith for I don't I

1022
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,760
don't love Kak Kuzman here, but for a Cam Johnson,

1023
00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:05,239
for a Larry Nance Junior, if you like, that would

1024
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,880
be an interesting target for them out of Atlanta. I

1025
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:09,679
don't know if they want to go and get John

1026
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,199
Collins where Utah if it's just the offer'st Trey Lyles

1027
00:49:12,199 --> 00:49:14,280
and Kevin Herder, would Utah just prefer to wait see

1028
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,159
if they can get more out of another team. That

1029
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:18,239
might be an example where okay, it feels a little

1030
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:20,480
bit more doable, But then how much are these moves

1031
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:24,920
that aren't like super Stark going to do for you.

1032
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:26,559
I'm not saying it needs to be on the level

1033
00:49:26,599 --> 00:49:29,199
of getting a Jimmy Butler or the names they were

1034
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,760
linked to last year, whether it was siakam Rojiannaobi, neither

1035
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,840
of whom reportedly wanted to go to Sacramento. I don't

1036
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:36,400
know that they need to be that good. But if

1037
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,360
you're not going to go and take a bigger swing,

1038
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,760
you need to take a series of like mid end swings.

1039
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,719
And so if you leave the trade deadline with Larry

1040
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,239
Nance Junior and dory Phinny Smith, let's just say as

1041
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,639
just one hypothetical. That's probably okay. You've now deepened your rotation,

1042
00:49:52,679 --> 00:49:56,039
you've checked some boxes. Who's going out in that though?

1043
00:49:56,079 --> 00:49:57,960
How much better are you if you do go from

1044
00:49:58,039 --> 00:50:00,599
Kevin Herder to Dorian and Finney Smith? Are you better

1045
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,159
at all? And that's why a lot of these questions

1046
00:50:03,159 --> 00:50:05,559
probably should have been more addressed over the off season,

1047
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:08,199
because yes, you have now more information on what your

1048
00:50:08,199 --> 00:50:11,559
biggest weaknesses are, but you're kind of in this weird

1049
00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:14,280
spot where it's all right, it doesn't make a ton

1050
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,320
of sense for us to go all in because we've

1051
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,800
been worse than we expected, and yet we can't do

1052
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:21,440
nothing because then we're just consigned to what making this

1053
00:50:21,519 --> 00:50:24,199
another not another? Since you didn't consider last year a

1054
00:50:24,199 --> 00:50:26,960
gap year, but does this then just become a gap year?

1055
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,599
I will say I don't expect anything along the lines

1056
00:50:31,639 --> 00:50:34,119
of Wilde Aaron Fox get traded. I would be kind

1057
00:50:34,119 --> 00:50:37,079
of surprised if Demarta Rosen got traded to any of

1058
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:39,840
the real nuclear options, whether it involves them going out

1059
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,679
and getting another star, or whether it involves oh, we're

1060
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,119
hitting the blow up button then starting over. That's not

1061
00:50:45,199 --> 00:50:47,360
a decision you make in the middle of the year.

1062
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,039
The middle of the year is for the names that

1063
00:50:49,079 --> 00:50:51,119
we just mentioned, Where can we just go out and

1064
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:53,920
get a Cody Martin to kind of deepen our defense

1065
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,800
of versatility and the outgoing money isn't backbreaking to match?

1066
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,519
Do we see? What does it take to get Bouchet

1067
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:02,880
out of Toronto? Is he big enough upgrade over a

1068
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,599
trade Lyles for us? Those are the types of moves

1069
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:08,239
that you're basically going to make, especially in a situation

1070
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,039
like the Kings where it's like we have Derozen and Fox.

1071
00:51:11,039 --> 00:51:13,119
It's a bonus and we're not going to get another

1072
00:51:13,199 --> 00:51:15,519
star probably unless we're giving up Keegan Murray. And I'm

1073
00:51:15,519 --> 00:51:17,480
certainly not giving up him in a Jimmy Butler trade

1074
00:51:17,519 --> 00:51:20,079
right now, just the age the upcoming free agency. That's

1075
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:22,760
not what I was implying by mentioning Jimmy Butler's names.

1076
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:24,760
They're not going to do that, and I don't think

1077
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,679
there's a ton of value in doing that right now. Either.

1078
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:28,960
Let's use Fox as the analog here. Let's say he

1079
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,079
is getting a little frustrated. Let's say Clutch Sports did

1080
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:33,360
kind of propose the idea of well, like, if things

1081
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:36,039
don't turn around, maybe you should start looking at trade options.

1082
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,400
If the Aron Fox X for trade demands a trade, yes,

1083
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,920
then you're forced to look at it. But objectively speaking,

1084
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,880
teams are going to have more flexibility over the offseason,

1085
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,559
certainly in terms of roster spots, definitely in terms of

1086
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,639
cat flexibility, and so you're not making people could dream

1087
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,000
up all the Darron Fox trades they want. Unless you

1088
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,000
believe or have information that he is going to request

1089
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:56,880
a trade. I just don't place a ton of value

1090
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:58,679
in them right now because the Kings will get more

1091
00:51:59,079 --> 00:52:01,639
I would think over theseason, even with another year being

1092
00:52:01,679 --> 00:52:04,360
ticked off his deal and quote unquote free agency on

1093
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:09,000
the horizon for him. That's not a decision you're making midstream.

1094
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,760
And if you go from going after DeMar Derozen to

1095
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,840
that without a darn Fox trade request, I would question

1096
00:52:15,039 --> 00:52:17,920
just what the general direction of your franchise is. Anyway,

1097
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,840
you still need to do something, and I think that's

1098
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,599
kind of I think they're obligated to not give up

1099
00:52:23,639 --> 00:52:25,920
on this season or kind of let's wait and see

1100
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:27,800
if the pieces figure it out. We now have enough

1101
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,360
evidence to say, do I think that this team could

1102
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:32,400
be a little bit better than expected? You even look

1103
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,000
at their point differential relative to their record. There's only

1104
00:52:35,039 --> 00:52:37,679
one team that has a bigger discrepancy between those two

1105
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,519
right now. So, yeah, there's a better team in here somewhere,

1106
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:43,360
but there's a fragile There's a fragile team in here everywhere.

1107
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,360
I'm not talking in terms of injuries. I'm just talking

1108
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,880
in terms of their ability to win enough of the

1109
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,000
mid game on court battles to decidedly be more than

1110
00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:55,079
a playing contender in the Western Conference. I think we

1111
00:52:55,159 --> 00:52:58,039
now have evidence that their margin for error is never

1112
00:52:58,119 --> 00:53:00,559
going to increase unless they do something to change the

1113
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:03,519
makeup of the roster and maybe the way it's run.

1114
00:53:03,639 --> 00:53:06,239
I'm not an advocate of firing Mike Brown right now,

1115
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,639
but I would say, like I certainly have questions, even

1116
00:53:08,639 --> 00:53:11,239
if someone who's not watching every King's game, about the

1117
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,119
playing time distribution here and even some of the lineups

1118
00:53:14,119 --> 00:53:16,960
that you're going turn out. But I think the real

1119
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,480
moral of their story here, or their cardinal sin, is

1120
00:53:21,559 --> 00:53:26,440
building a roster where there are clear weaknesses, like among

1121
00:53:26,519 --> 00:53:29,599
your top like all your bet like just your best players.

1122
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,639
But there's almost this counterintuitive feel to the idea of them,

1123
00:53:33,679 --> 00:53:36,800
like the minutes have been fine, but this is not

1124
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:38,840
something you want to say when you're playing Monk with

1125
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:41,639
the other four. So dearon Fox, Malik Monk, demart Row's

1126
00:53:41,639 --> 00:53:44,360
and Keige Murray Domasa Bonis, you're winning those minutes by

1127
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,519
not even two points per one hundred possessions. And here's

1128
00:53:47,559 --> 00:53:50,880
the kicker, You're just below average during those stretches. That's

1129
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,159
almost a five hundred possession sample size. There's something you

1130
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,159
and you all by the way. You can't talk to me.

1131
00:53:56,199 --> 00:53:58,960
I know Malik Monk is higher volume on the offensive end,

1132
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,199
but you can't say key On Ellis is too small

1133
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:02,559
and then be like, well, the answer is like we

1134
00:54:02,599 --> 00:54:05,440
can play those five together. There's something that feels inherently

1135
00:54:05,519 --> 00:54:09,480
uneven about that, and maybe that's being complicated by the

1136
00:54:09,519 --> 00:54:12,039
fact that they're not in at least elite offensive unit

1137
00:54:12,119 --> 00:54:16,079
together just yet. So I would argue they've overachieved defensively

1138
00:54:16,079 --> 00:54:18,519
either in the forty six percentile defensively with those five

1139
00:54:18,599 --> 00:54:21,760
on the floor, and there is one above average defender

1140
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,840
in that group, you could make the case for dearon

1141
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:27,599
Fox there's one certain above average defender in Keegan Murray,

1142
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,679
So that's where they're at and it's something that I

1143
00:54:30,679 --> 00:54:32,440
think they could have foreseen, and a lot of people

1144
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,719
did foresee over the offseason after making the DeRozan move,

1145
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,119
even more so before making the Derozean move. But I

1146
00:54:38,119 --> 00:54:41,079
think it's in paramount for this team and even their

1147
00:54:41,079 --> 00:54:43,920
fans to not treat this as just well, there's the

1148
00:54:44,039 --> 00:54:46,920
either or of or there's a bunch of different options

1149
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:48,519
where we might just need to blow it up. And

1150
00:54:49,039 --> 00:54:52,679
I'll be more willing to entertain that if more reporting

1151
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:54,480
comes out on the dearon Fox front that he doesn't

1152
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:56,079
want to be there. I just don't buy that he

1153
00:54:56,119 --> 00:54:58,679
doesn't want to be there. I think that story is

1154
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:00,519
more way of putting pressure on the Organis to do

1155
00:55:00,559 --> 00:55:02,719
exactly what I believe is they're only option, and that's

1156
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,280
you're not doing anything MEGA. You're going out there and

1157
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:07,280
you're trying to expand your rotation. Look, if you're not

1158
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,320
gonna use Keon Ellis, then use him as an asset

1159
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,719
in another deal to get someone that you're prepared to

1160
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,920
pay play twenty five to thirty minutes a game. Then,

1161
00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:17,199
but you have to get I would say, another two

1162
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:20,480
playable bodies on this team, like real playable bodies can

1163
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,440
be in your playoff rotation, can certainly be in your

1164
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,480
regular season rotation. I think the areas in which those

1165
00:55:25,519 --> 00:55:28,199
need to come are just pretty clear. It's more, it'd

1166
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:29,880
be cool if it's a combo big where can you

1167
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,559
get away with a Larry h junior at the four

1168
00:55:31,599 --> 00:55:33,239
and the five. But it's if it's even just a

1169
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,519
matter of backup center. If this team just suddenly said

1170
00:55:35,519 --> 00:55:37,519
that you're able to take a flyer on Robert Williams

1171
00:55:37,519 --> 00:55:39,000
the third and I floated this to the Kings in

1172
00:55:39,039 --> 00:55:40,760
the past, not gonna play a ton of minutes. You

1173
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,199
don't really want him playing with the bonus. That's fucking fine,

1174
00:55:43,559 --> 00:55:46,679
because you just need upgrades kind of in the reserve

1175
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,559
four or five area, and then certainly in the combo

1176
00:55:49,679 --> 00:55:52,440
wing area just across the two, three, four. If you

1177
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,599
get someone who can check, you know, let's say you

1178
00:55:54,639 --> 00:55:56,639
get I don't know who would be the best option here.

1179
00:55:56,679 --> 00:55:59,239
It's it's either Dorian Phinney Smith or Cam Johnson among

1180
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,039
the most gettibles. But if you get someone who can

1181
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:06,119
defensively play across the maybe like the two and a half,

1182
00:56:06,159 --> 00:56:08,159
like it's fringe when you're getting to some guards. But

1183
00:56:08,199 --> 00:56:10,480
the two three, four. It then allows you to be

1184
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:12,639
wide in your scope when it comes to the five.

1185
00:56:12,679 --> 00:56:14,440
Whereas we don't necessarily need a tru room protector, we

1186
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:15,920
don't need someone who else needs to play the four,

1187
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,360
though we go after more of a pure five in

1188
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,920
that respect, but you need two more playable bodies. And

1189
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,719
you don't get to use the excuse of we're worse

1190
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:24,679
than expected. We're we're not going to throw good money

1191
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:28,239
after bad. You've built a team that needs to have

1192
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,159
some sort of an immediate window. And if you go

1193
00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:34,039
a second year in a row of just disappointing return,

1194
00:56:34,119 --> 00:56:36,199
not even making the playoffs, and at this rate you're

1195
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,519
not even going to make the play in inexcusable. And

1196
00:56:38,559 --> 00:56:40,079
so the time to act would be now. And I'm

1197
00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:42,920
not saying be irresponsible with what you're offering, but you're

1198
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,320
not out of trade chips to play. My guests would

1199
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:46,639
be they're not going to want to pay the tax

1200
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:48,880
this year. So you're using that as maybe the hard

1201
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:50,840
and fast cut off of they only have two point

1202
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,480
one million dollars under the tax, they're not going to

1203
00:56:52,519 --> 00:56:54,800
take in any more money after that. They have five

1204
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:57,079
point nine million under the first apron. If that you

1205
00:56:57,079 --> 00:56:59,440
know is something that's going to matter. Does give them flexibility.

1206
00:56:59,599 --> 00:57:01,519
They have future picks they could trade. Even with that

1207
00:57:01,559 --> 00:57:04,360
protected one heading to Atlanta this year, Devin Carter might

1208
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,840
still have some intrigue, although you're likely trading him at

1209
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,119
the nadea of his value because he's injured and as

1210
00:57:09,119 --> 00:57:12,760
of right now hasn't played just yet. You have matching salaries,

1211
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,639
and some of them are uncomfortable. But aside from Fox

1212
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,760
Murray and some bonus, I'm still there's no one on

1213
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,880
this roster that I'm just viewing as completely untouchable. Ellis

1214
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:22,599
would come close because of his salary, but if you're

1215
00:57:22,599 --> 00:57:24,840
not going to play him consistently, you need to explore

1216
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,679
what's out there. And I just don't see the value

1217
00:57:27,679 --> 00:57:30,599
in Waiting anymore. I think clearly I was probably I

1218
00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:32,360
thought I was too low on this team entering the season,

1219
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,800
and then I overcorrected, and I still think there's a

1220
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:37,719
better team in there overall, based off some of the

1221
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,000
games that we've seen, some of the stretches I've watched,

1222
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:41,519
and then of course some of the data that you

1223
00:57:41,519 --> 00:57:43,800
can just see in the macro. But this team has

1224
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,239
to do something. It's at def Con two. I don't

1225
00:57:47,239 --> 00:57:49,000
think it's necessarily def Con one because that's what you

1226
00:57:49,039 --> 00:57:52,519
consider any and all scenarios. I do think it's important

1227
00:57:52,519 --> 00:57:54,639
to couch it by saying we're not in the realm

1228
00:57:54,639 --> 00:57:57,519
of unless you really just believe if you're a title

1229
00:57:57,599 --> 00:57:59,679
or bust mentality, which I know a lot of people are.

1230
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:03,079
I don't necessarily watch or cover the league that way,

1231
00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:04,400
So I'm not gonna say, well, they might as well

1232
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:06,840
blow it up or go all in for Jimmy Butler,

1233
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,719
because otherwise what are they doing. There's like there can

1234
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:11,559
be a happy medium in between, and you can let

1235
00:58:11,639 --> 00:58:14,280
things marinate and see if you get lucky breaks elsewhere.

1236
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,559
And that's the line that the Kings need to tow.

1237
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,039
And I think you can argue they did it over

1238
00:58:19,079 --> 00:58:21,840
the offseason. They did it imperfectly, and it was on

1239
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,960
delay because that the fact that they made no moves

1240
00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:28,119
last year during the middle of the season was was criminal.

1241
00:58:28,199 --> 00:58:30,480
If you're if you're a fan of that franchise and

1242
00:58:30,519 --> 00:58:33,400
you can't do the same thing now, you operate as

1243
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:38,280
buyers until I would say semi aggressive buyers, just intuitive buyers,

1244
00:58:38,599 --> 00:58:40,760
until that you know this season has gone off the rails.

1245
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,000
Like for good and I don't think they're at that point.

1246
00:58:43,039 --> 00:58:44,840
But if you let it get to that point again,

1247
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,719
that's gonna fall. It falls on everybody. But I'm starting

1248
00:58:47,719 --> 00:58:49,440
from the top down there, and that's gonna go to

1249
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,400
the front office and then to the coaching staff and

1250
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,079
of course the players who look some of them just

1251
00:58:54,199 --> 00:58:56,800
you can't force Kevin Hurder to make more threes and

1252
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:00,000
the Keegan Murray the shooting splits there. You can't necessar

1253
00:59:00,239 --> 00:59:02,079
force that to be better either. But I also keep

1254
00:59:02,079 --> 00:59:04,719
coming back to the fact that life feels a lot

1255
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,079
more difficult for a lot of the supporting cast members,

1256
00:59:07,119 --> 00:59:09,400
even if they're not having to generate as much of

1257
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:11,960
their own looks. The quality just isn't there. You could look,

1258
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,719
I mean Keithan Murray's shot quality and transition and at

1259
00:59:14,719 --> 00:59:18,079
the rim this year, night and day compared to last year.

1260
00:59:18,199 --> 00:59:21,719
And that is a personnel issue, which I think, really

1261
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:23,760
you could talk about whatever lineups you want to play.

1262
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:25,119
I really need that has more to do with the

1263
00:59:25,119 --> 00:59:27,880
front office than anybody else. Let me know what you

1264
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:29,639
think the King should do, whether it's in the YouTube

1265
00:59:29,639 --> 00:59:31,800
comments or join our disport and come talk there. The

1266
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:35,239
link that's the podcast, the description. Remember please to subscribe

1267
00:59:35,239 --> 00:59:36,800
to us as always if you have not done so,

1268
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:39,960
already pumping out content around these parts all the time

1269
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,000
until next time, and as always I leave cancel one

1270
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,960
the only frank Niordina, and happy holidays to whichever one

1271
00:59:47,159 --> 00:59:47,840
that you sell.