WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Meaning a light man like this man letting butterfly flapping

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<v Speaker 1>his wing. They've down in a forest.

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<v Speaker 2>Man, it gonna cause the tree fall, letting five thousand

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<v Speaker 2>miles away.

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<v Speaker 1>Many nobody seen it. Nobody else. You might seem like

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<v Speaker 1>you don't need to know, man Big, like you followed

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<v Speaker 1>him another story and you got back in fact that

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<v Speaker 1>that's don't win. Man got back and dag on panel. Man,

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<v Speaker 1>Now you don't don't matter.

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<v Speaker 2>Man, all right, So we're finally back normal monologue schedule.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll continue on, but the foreseeable future back from travel

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<v Speaker 2>hopefully won't happen again. So today's episode is with John Carter,

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<v Speaker 2>a great substacker, one of the elite few for whom

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<v Speaker 2>I read religiously. And he did a great article about

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<v Speaker 2>the boomers, about a clip from Kevin O'Leary, at least

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<v Speaker 2>in my mind, the guy from Shark Tank talking about

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<v Speaker 2>people making seventy k a year wasting their money on

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eight dollars lunches, the idea, of course, being that

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<v Speaker 2>if you take that money, if you invested into an

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<v Speaker 2>index fund, you'd have enough money for a down payment

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<v Speaker 2>on a house. Now, look, I realize it. It is

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<v Speaker 2>cheaper to pack lunches at home. But the sentiment really

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<v Speaker 2>ticked people off. Felt like, hey, man, look, you're worth

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<v Speaker 2>a couple billion dollars. Why are you telling me you

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<v Speaker 2>know how to make it right? It seems out of

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<v Speaker 2>touch when housing prices are exploding at the same time

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<v Speaker 2>as wages are stagnant. Oh and also food is more

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<v Speaker 2>expensive than it's ever been. It rubs people the wrong way.

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<v Speaker 2>They get really mad, and understandably so. Carter makes the point,

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<v Speaker 2>I think quite insightfully that this is sort of the

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<v Speaker 2>marshmallow test gone. For those who aren't familiar, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>classic experiment where you give a kid a marshmallow, you

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<v Speaker 2>put it on the table, and you say, if you

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<v Speaker 2>can wait five minutes, I'll give you two. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>this is checking a kid's time preference. Are they able

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<v Speaker 2>to defer a win now for a bigger win later?

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<v Speaker 2>Are they able to defer their enjoyment? And what the

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<v Speaker 2>authors of this study found is that you can track

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<v Speaker 2>those kids over time and they're much more successful. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>the kid who's likely to do that is likely to

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<v Speaker 2>out earn his counterpart with low impulse control. And it

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<v Speaker 2>makes sense now what Carter said What he wrote, and

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<v Speaker 2>I thought this was particularly interesting, is that this experiment

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<v Speaker 2>has been broken. The idea coming from boomers is that

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<v Speaker 2>you're the kid who couldn't wait. You're too stupid, You

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<v Speaker 2>just didn't have enough self control. You didn't offer the

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<v Speaker 2>marshmallow a firm handshake, you didn't pull yourself up by

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<v Speaker 2>your bootstraps. Simply was a failure of character. And while

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<v Speaker 2>certain I think we can all think of people who

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<v Speaker 2>do manage their money poorly, that doesn't account for the

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<v Speaker 2>scope of the breakdown we're seeing. Seems as if, at

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<v Speaker 2>a very basic level, something is wrong, well past the

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<v Speaker 2>ability of people to make good decisions. There's an additional

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<v Speaker 2>layer to this. You don't need me to tell you this,

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<v Speaker 2>You've no doubt seen it.

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<v Speaker 1>I know.

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<v Speaker 2>I've said before that in my social circle almost everyone

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<v Speaker 2>is downwardly mobile. Almost everyone is doing worse than their

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<v Speaker 2>parents or their grandparents. And so, yeah, we feel that

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<v Speaker 2>we see that. And the argument that John Carter made is, well,

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<v Speaker 2>that isn't the way the experiment was set up. What

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<v Speaker 2>actually happened is that the kid who waited, oh, he

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<v Speaker 2>didn't get anything at all. The rules were broken. He

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<v Speaker 2>was promised if you do this, you will reap a reward.

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<v Speaker 2>And he didn't get anything. Look at education, he went

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<v Speaker 2>to school, you got the good degree, you kept your

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<v Speaker 2>debt down, and now what you're a professional podcaster in

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<v Speaker 2>my case at least, or you're working at a restaurant.

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<v Speaker 2>You're working two or three jobs which all combined seem

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<v Speaker 2>to take you a lot of time and don't actually

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<v Speaker 2>get you out of the consumption trap. You can never

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<v Speaker 2>push through into actually saving You're keeping your head above

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<v Speaker 2>water maybe, but if then not by much. And the

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<v Speaker 2>idea that in that situation where you followed the advice,

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<v Speaker 2>you did what Dave Ramsey told you to and it's

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<v Speaker 2>not working, that you are simply an idiot for not

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<v Speaker 2>being born in nineteen fifty three. Well, it rubs people

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<v Speaker 2>the wrong way. It's sort of insulting. It sort of

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<v Speaker 2>brings out this sort of murderous rage that I think

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<v Speaker 2>we've all seen all too many times, especially because you

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<v Speaker 2>look at how our elders got to their position. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>they had the advantage of an immense amount of cultural capital.

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<v Speaker 2>They acquired assets before explosive inflation and were able to

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<v Speaker 2>rise that value up throughout their entire life. But now

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<v Speaker 2>on the back end, they're turning around and saying, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I did it, so can you. You just need a

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<v Speaker 2>push harder, You just need to work more. Failing to

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<v Speaker 2>appreciate the advantages they had and the disadvantages their children

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<v Speaker 2>or grandchildren do as well. It's a profound inversion, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's particularly frustrating from the conservative world, whether religious or

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<v Speaker 2>political leaders, because they will defer to these sort of aphorisms,

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<v Speaker 2>these sort of harmless sayings we've all heard a hundred times.

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<v Speaker 2>I've mocked them already. But then they will say, well,

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<v Speaker 2>why are you so angry? There's something wrong with you

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<v Speaker 2>for objecting to this situation. You are a virile and

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<v Speaker 2>anti semi living in your mother's basement. You are an untouchable,

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<v Speaker 2>unlovable insect because you won't go along, you won't sit down,

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<v Speaker 2>shut up, and let us dispossess you again. Can you

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<v Speaker 2>imagine why young men are angry? And look, it's not

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<v Speaker 2>just young men. Young women are equally miserable, maybe if

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<v Speaker 2>not more so, although they express it differently, and they're

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<v Speaker 2>afforded different advantages and costs than we are. And when

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<v Speaker 2>I say we, I just ran my analytics, it's I

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<v Speaker 2>think there's one percent at one point nine percent. We're

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<v Speaker 2>trending up. But you know what I mean, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>are equally trapped in this cycle of downward mobility and misery.

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<v Speaker 2>And when we look at why politics is breaking down, well,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a huge part of it. Every issue, whether

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<v Speaker 2>it's Israel or anything else, has tinge of this in it.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't get away from it, you can't escape it.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was going up to the Old Glory Club conference,

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<v Speaker 2>I was writing from the airport with Dave Green, the distributist,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's mentioned this live, so I'm not telling a

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<v Speaker 2>tale out of school. But he was talking about going

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<v Speaker 2>to the beach with his family, wife and children. All right,

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<v Speaker 2>sorry about that, duties.

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<v Speaker 1>Of a landlord.

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<v Speaker 2>Anyway, I have completely and totally lost my train of thought. See,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what boomers are annoying. This issue touches everything.

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<v Speaker 2>Dave Green, That's where we were anyway, and he was

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<v Speaker 2>describing the process of going to the beach with his

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<v Speaker 2>family in an area that he grew up in area

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<v Speaker 2>of a state renowned for its beaches. And at the

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<v Speaker 2>time when he was there, it was families, right, that's

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<v Speaker 2>who went there. But in the time since the people

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<v Speaker 2>who grew up there as baby boomers, have bought houses

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<v Speaker 2>which have ballooned in value that they have become million

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<v Speaker 2>dollars luxury investments. Right, what used to be is sort

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<v Speaker 2>of towns where working class families would go for a

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<v Speaker 2>weekend at the beach, maybe rent a place for not

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<v Speaker 2>all too much money. And you know what, even with

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<v Speaker 2>these inflated prices, he and his family went, and what

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<v Speaker 2>did he find there? Old people scowling at him because

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<v Speaker 2>his son was being too loud. The families that had

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<v Speaker 2>made this speech what it was are now inconvenient to

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<v Speaker 2>the elderly folks retiring there. You see it everywhere. It

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<v Speaker 2>drives you completely and totally crazy because you can't get

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<v Speaker 2>away from it. Oh, you have an objection to well,

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<v Speaker 2>the situation with Israel, Well boomer pops up and says, no,

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<v Speaker 2>you're not allowed to. Similar to dating, similar to anything else,

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<v Speaker 2>this generational traction, It runs through everything. You can't get

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<v Speaker 2>away from it. And the worst part is, well, things

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<v Speaker 2>get worse when they're gone. Right, you have the institutional knowledge,

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<v Speaker 2>you have the belief in the American system, which you

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<v Speaker 2>or I might not share, but does at least keep

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<v Speaker 2>the lights on does keep the wheels of this political

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<v Speaker 2>machine running. When they're gone, that all stops. And that

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<v Speaker 2>may be, as Kevin Deanna said the last time we spoke,

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<v Speaker 2>the deepest cruelty of the boomer that will miss them

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<v Speaker 2>when they're gone. And when I say boomers, of course

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<v Speaker 2>we understand, I don't mean all. You know, there are

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<v Speaker 2>a great many of them that are good. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>huge generation. But this issue is everywhere. You can't escape

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<v Speaker 2>from it, even on vacation. And so that's why I

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<v Speaker 2>thought this essay by John Carter so interesting, so worth

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<v Speaker 2>your time. It's a good episode. I think you guys

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<v Speaker 2>are going to enjoy it. But before we start, should

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<v Speaker 2>mention if you want the episodes early in ed free,

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<v Speaker 2>you can check them out on Patreon, Substack, or gum Road.

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<v Speaker 2>You can also head over to Axios Remote Fitness and

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<v Speaker 2>Coaching and get some training. So, without further ado, here's

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<v Speaker 2>John Carr. All right, John Cotter, welcome to the Jay

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<v Speaker 2>Burdon Show. How you doing man?

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty good? It's good to be back. Thanks for having

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<v Speaker 1>me on again.

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<v Speaker 2>You know it's a good episode, man. Where we are

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<v Speaker 2>approximately eight seconds in and I've already managed to flub

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<v Speaker 2>the name of a guest, and it is two of

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<v Speaker 2>the most simple names in the English language. So you

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<v Speaker 2>know what if this is, if this is how this

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<v Speaker 2>is gonna go, it's gonna be an absolute disaster.

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<v Speaker 1>I completely missed that. What did you say?

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<v Speaker 2>I said, John kotta like you live in Massachusetts because

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<v Speaker 2>apparently despite taller girl living, I can't manage to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>But in all seriousness, man, you wrote a really great article.

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<v Speaker 2>And look, you know what, I'm not going to have

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<v Speaker 2>you read back through it. You know, we're not going

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<v Speaker 2>to do it blow by blow. The article will be

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<v Speaker 2>linked down in the description if you want to go

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<v Speaker 2>through it. But uh, you've entered into the generational debate.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's just get into it with the inciting incident, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>what prompted you to write this piece?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, you know, what was it Kevin O'Leary

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<v Speaker 1>that that troud that I that I think he's Canadian

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<v Speaker 1>and then I apologize for that. So he had a

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<v Speaker 1>tweet that enraged large numbers of people talking about how

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<v Speaker 1>the younger generation, you know, they they were just very

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<v Speaker 1>financially irresponsible, you know, spending twenty six dollars on lunch

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<v Speaker 1>or something, and how if they took that money and

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<v Speaker 1>they just invested it instead, you know, they would and

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<v Speaker 1>put it into like an index fund, they would they

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<v Speaker 1>would have enough for a down payment on a house,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, after ten years or something. And of course

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<v Speaker 1>this this precipitated the usual generation slop debate, where like

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<v Speaker 1>all the boomers and the spiritual boomer boomer con types

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<v Speaker 1>were sort of taking a side, and you're like, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, these these millennials and zoomers, like they're just

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<v Speaker 1>terrible with money, and they they're lazy, and they complain

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<v Speaker 1>too much, and not all the younger people just just seething,

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<v Speaker 1>just be just just so furious. So my sort of

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<v Speaker 1>take on it is that they do have kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a limited point and that yeah, a lot of younger

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<v Speaker 1>people are terrible with money. You know, I'm not great

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<v Speaker 1>with it myself, frankly. Uh, But that this is very

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<v Speaker 1>much a function of of the conditions that they were

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<v Speaker 1>raised in. So use the example of the marshmallow test,

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<v Speaker 1>which I think was like done in like Stanford or

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<v Speaker 1>something back in the nineteen seventies, where you know, for

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<v Speaker 1>you for the small fraction of your listeners who don't

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<v Speaker 1>know what the marshmallow test is that's when the experimenter

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<v Speaker 1>puts a marshmallow in front of a kid and says,

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<v Speaker 1>you can eat the marshmallow now if you want, but

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<v Speaker 1>if you wait ten minutes, I'll come back and give

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<v Speaker 1>you a second marshmallow. And then they would track the

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<v Speaker 1>kids after that look at their academic performance and their

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<v Speaker 1>life outcomes, and they found that the kids who had

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<v Speaker 1>the self controlled weights, who had low enough time preference

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<v Speaker 1>that they could postpone immediate gratification for a larger future reward,

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<v Speaker 1>would tend to do better in life. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>that obviously makes sense, and there's gonna be confounding factors there,

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<v Speaker 1>Like you know, obviously it's related to intelligence, the variability

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<v Speaker 1>to conceptualize the future in the first place, and intelligence,

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<v Speaker 1>of course is related to is related to, like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>good life outcomes in general. And then you know, some

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<v Speaker 1>people in my comments they pointed out, yeah, if the

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<v Speaker 1>kid doesn't like marshmallows, like you know, maybe they wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to play, which is also a good point. You

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<v Speaker 1>have to want the reward that's on offer. But what

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<v Speaker 1>happens if the experimenter doesn't give the kid a second marshmallow,

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<v Speaker 1>or like when they come back and they snatch away

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<v Speaker 1>the first marshmallow and they put down two marshmallows each

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<v Speaker 1>other one third the size of the original marshmallow. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>And if you run that experiment a second time after that,

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<v Speaker 1>you would probably find that not a single one of

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<v Speaker 1>the kids would wait. They would just cram that marshmallow

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<v Speaker 1>right into their face. Because the thing with the marshmallow

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<v Speaker 1>test is that you're not just testing the kid's ability

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<v Speaker 1>to postpone gratification. You are also testing the trustworthiness of

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<v Speaker 1>the experimenter. And the point that I was making is

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<v Speaker 1>that with all of the rug pulls that have been

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<v Speaker 1>inflicted on Gen X and Millennials and zoomers over the

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<v Speaker 1>last you know, thirty years, a lot of young people

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<v Speaker 1>quite rationally conclude there's there's no point in saving because

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<v Speaker 1>by the time, you know, for instance, I save up

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<v Speaker 1>enough for a down payment on a house, the only

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<v Speaker 1>twice as much to get like a down payment on

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<v Speaker 1>a house. You know, like that, there's you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>future is just going to be worse than the present,

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<v Speaker 1>so you might as well enjoy what you can in

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<v Speaker 1>the presence. Thus the avocado toast.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and this is a concept my buddy Sean Wiland,

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<v Speaker 2>who's writing a book it should come out sooner or later,

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<v Speaker 2>has been talking about for a while. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if he originated it, but financial nihilism the idea that, well,

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<v Speaker 2>the game is so rigged it doesn't even make sense

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<v Speaker 2>to play out your hand, you know, why try it's

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<v Speaker 2>an unclimbable mountain. And I think it's important to make

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<v Speaker 2>a distinction between a understand bowl and correct reaction, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously the correct answer is to be, you know, like

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<v Speaker 2>the rat in the bucket of water, right, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>swimming until the very end. Right, it's not a great shot,

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<v Speaker 2>but yeah, it's right, It's better than nothing, and so

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<v Speaker 2>look like it. It is grim, but it is understandable.

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<v Speaker 1>You can see it, like like, even though even though

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<v Speaker 1>all the rats in that experiment died because the entire point, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, maybe maybe we are as you know, Billy Corgan said,

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<v Speaker 2>all just rats. And I don't know if the solog

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<v Speaker 2>would have gone quite as well, but the message would

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<v Speaker 2>have been just as true. But the uh, I see

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<v Speaker 2>it constantly and I feel the poll of it, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, look, part of the reason I'm a semi

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<v Speaker 2>professional podcaster with a you know, less than total grasp

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<v Speaker 2>of the English language is effectively you know, after throwing

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<v Speaker 2>your elfit you know, multiple different careers and you know

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<v Speaker 2>due to you know, no real fault of your bouncing off, right,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, company gets shut down, you couldn't advance up

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<v Speaker 2>the ladder. It's like, well what do I got? And

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<v Speaker 2>I see a lot of guys in that same situation.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I'm an exactly of that situation, right, Like

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<v Speaker 1>I put like a decade of my life into cultivating

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<v Speaker 1>an academic career and then, like, you know, just the

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<v Speaker 1>very vulnerable point in that career, I got slammed by

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<v Speaker 1>the DEI stuff, which is why I'm a professional racist

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<v Speaker 1>on some stack now, you know, like.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a it's a growing club. And look, as much

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<v Speaker 2>as I appreciate it, don't join this. And it's way

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<v Speaker 2>better race to make money. And do I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>that a circular economy of racist podcasters is the way

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<v Speaker 2>to get out of this.

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<v Speaker 1>No, uh no, we're we're just like I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>the guys of mynest write in the Cedrilist papers or something,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think that's maybe giving us too much credit.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they were also all rich, you know, which is

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<v Speaker 2>really the way to start it. There's an old joke

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<v Speaker 2>about uh, you know, race like having a race car,

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<v Speaker 2>where it's like, what what's the fastest way to become

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<v Speaker 2>a millionaire driving a race car? And the answer is

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<v Speaker 2>start with ten million dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>There's something similar to being a political dissident, right, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>which is it's it's apparently much more fun if you're

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<v Speaker 2>if you're generationally wealthy. But yeah, one of the things

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<v Speaker 2>that you brought up in this that I think is

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<v Speaker 2>continually aggravating is the incredibly dismissive attitude that the stereotypical

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<v Speaker 2>boomer has towards tho the words those who are younger

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<v Speaker 2>than them, right, that oh, you are just too lazy

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<v Speaker 2>or stupid to have made the decisions I have. And sure,

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<v Speaker 2>look there are many cases like that. I've this is

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<v Speaker 2>a breach of multiple different laws. But you know, albred

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<v Speaker 2>acted enough. I've told the story before of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>meeting with a client who was explaining to me her

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<v Speaker 2>situation with debt and she had taken out a twelve

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars loan to buy a dog. So I no,

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<v Speaker 2>that's true. Yeah, no, she got a dog loan. It

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<v Speaker 2>didn't go well, as you can imagine. That is a h.

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<v Speaker 1>That guy I always forget his name with one of

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<v Speaker 1>the show who like.

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<v Speaker 2>Advised kalb Hammer Yes yeaheah, yeah, like four years before

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<v Speaker 2>he came her out. I was just actually doing that

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<v Speaker 2>for a job, which, let me tell you, Uh, the

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<v Speaker 2>boomers aren't all wrong. Don't get me wrong. There is

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<v Speaker 2>a shocking amount of just uh, you know, a financial retardation.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think a lot of people who look at

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<v Speaker 2>it and say, well, no, I don't finance pure bread dogs.

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<v Speaker 2>I live within my means, I save money, I went

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<v Speaker 2>to school, got the degree I was supposed to, and

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<v Speaker 2>now what. And I think that's where a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the rage comes from that, like I did what you

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<v Speaker 2>said and I ended up here. I listened to Dave

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<v Speaker 2>Ramsey and yet here I am.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, yeah, exactly. You study hard, you go to school,

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<v Speaker 1>you pick a major which is you know, practical, you

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<v Speaker 1>do all all the right things, and then you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you get screwed anyhow, right, and that sort of I

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<v Speaker 1>mean the other the other aspect isn't just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>financial literacy. It's also the kind of general demoralization, right,

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<v Speaker 1>like the quiet quitting phenomenon of just like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>why would I work harder then I'm being paid to

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<v Speaker 1>work and I'm not being paid that well, so screw you.

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<v Speaker 1>Like it's like, you know, that's the general destruction of

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<v Speaker 1>work ethic, right. He's this in academia amongst like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the the undergraduate population who were quite happy to submit

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<v Speaker 1>essays written by chat GPT because you know, it's all

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a scam. Why I waste more time than

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<v Speaker 1>you have to studying? It's all bullshit, right, And so,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean the first time that I had this kind

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<v Speaker 1>of discussion with the marshmallow test actually was a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of years ago with an older gentleman, uh sort of

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<v Speaker 1>connected to my family, who was bemoaning the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>he couldn't find good help these days. I think he

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<v Speaker 1>was running like a contracting business or something, and he's

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<v Speaker 1>just sort of, you know, the work ethic of these

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<v Speaker 1>kids is so terrible, and I so I explained exactly

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<v Speaker 1>like this, this Marshmallow test dynamic to him, and he's

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<v Speaker 1>just the look on his face like he'd never heard

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<v Speaker 1>anything like this before, he'd never thought about it before.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you know, a couple of years later, he

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<v Speaker 1>actually came up to me in an event. He lives

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<v Speaker 1>on the other side of the country, so I don't

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<v Speaker 1>see him very often, and he was like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>that really affected me. That really made me see it

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<v Speaker 1>like a different way. I never thought about that before.

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<v Speaker 1>And you're just you're just absolutely right, like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>why would they work hard? Like I was like, yeah, So,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, that was part of my motivation in writing that,

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<v Speaker 1>because I think a lot of the boomers, like they're

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<v Speaker 1>not actually bad people for the most part, they just

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<v Speaker 1>uh don't understand things very well. And if they can

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<v Speaker 1>be made to understand them, you know, maybe that can

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<v Speaker 1>do a little bit of good. You know, at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the day, they're going to be around for

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<v Speaker 1>a while and they vote, and they've got a ton

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<v Speaker 1>of money. And if we can harness that for our

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<v Speaker 1>purposes by converting them ever so slightly to like away

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<v Speaker 1>from evil, uh, you know, like that that could be

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<v Speaker 1>very important. And we're gaining control of our countries and

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<v Speaker 1>like these sort of like you know, wider political struggle.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean a couple of things there, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the correlation or that I guess that the relationship to

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<v Speaker 2>academy is easy to see, like I was in COVID,

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<v Speaker 2>or I was in school during COVID, and my grades

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<v Speaker 2>and my work ethic, to be honest, dropped off a

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<v Speaker 2>cliff because it's sort of it was apocalyptic, right, It

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<v Speaker 2>pulled back the curtain, made all things known, and you're like,

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<v Speaker 2>wait a minute, this is a giant scam. I'm paying

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<v Speaker 2>good school prices to go to the University of Arizona.

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<v Speaker 2>Was getting a degree?

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<v Speaker 1>Mill Is the University of Arizona like making you pay

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<v Speaker 1>like full ride.

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<v Speaker 2>No, No, the University of Arizona has a big online program.

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<v Speaker 2>So I was saying, you know, this ostensibly august educational institution.

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<v Speaker 2>They were giving me the same thing I could have

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<v Speaker 2>done basically via a correspondence course. You know, they're kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like lowest quality degree mill And once you've seen that,

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<v Speaker 2>like if you have a certain personality, it's very very

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<v Speaker 2>hard to care because you're like, oh, well, okay, this

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<v Speaker 2>this was kind of a shell game all along. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>sure it probably would have been you know, ethically, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, perhaps you know, career wise better to have

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<v Speaker 2>maintained that, you know, a average through college, but just

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<v Speaker 2>psychologically it's really tough to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Motivated, to motivate yourself, Yeah, exactly. So the reason I

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<v Speaker 1>asked that question was that the university that I was

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<v Speaker 1>working at during COVID, so they sent all the students

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<v Speaker 1>home as soon as the lockdown started in March, and

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<v Speaker 1>then shortly after that they announced that, you know, they

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<v Speaker 1>would refund residence fees, but they were going to charge

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<v Speaker 1>exactly the same tuition fees. And I was just appalled.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, like, this is not like an online

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<v Speaker 1>like zoom school is not the same as being in

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<v Speaker 1>a lecture theater. You know, like you don't have that

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<v Speaker 1>in person interaction. It's it's just not comparable, and you're

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<v Speaker 1>charging the same for that. And then of course, like

414
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:59.160
<v Speaker 1>there's all the intangibles that like, you know, students aren't

415
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:01.319
<v Speaker 1>just paying for the coursework, right, Like you know, you're

416
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:05.519
<v Speaker 1>paying for the university experience, like you know, running around

417
00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:07.640
<v Speaker 1>drunk at two o'clock in the morning with your friends

418
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.200
<v Speaker 1>and like doing pranks and you know, like all going

419
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:14.640
<v Speaker 1>to parties and stuff like joining clubs like all all

420
00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:16.920
<v Speaker 1>of the universities, which they can't do because they're in

421
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:20.119
<v Speaker 1>their bedrooms at home, in their pajamas, right, but they're

422
00:25:20.119 --> 00:25:23.240
<v Speaker 1>still getting charged the same amount, And all of the

423
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:25.640
<v Speaker 1>sort of boomer professors were kind of like, wha, well,

424
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:27.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, which, there's much work for us to In fact,

425
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:29.920
<v Speaker 1>it's even more work for us to do this online.

426
00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:31.440
<v Speaker 1>We're st long to figure this out, like of course

427
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:32.720
<v Speaker 1>we have to charge the same And I was like,

428
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:37.039
<v Speaker 1>I was like, but like they could just go to

429
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:40.920
<v Speaker 1>con academy, man, like, which is free. And you're basically

430
00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:47.720
<v Speaker 1>sending the message to them that there's no functional difference

431
00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:56.359
<v Speaker 1>between like a good nominally good state school and like

432
00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.839
<v Speaker 1>some fly by night online correspondence academy so which is

433
00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:02.880
<v Speaker 1>like one tenth the price. So like, why wouldn't they

434
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.000
<v Speaker 1>just do that? Like you're shooting yourselves in the foot,

435
00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:08.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, absolute warrants and uh yeah, sure enough, like

436
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:10.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, enrollments dropping off a cliff since then, So

437
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:17.160
<v Speaker 1>typical short sighted boomers frankly, yeah.

438
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:20.640
<v Speaker 2>And it's it's incredibly frustrating because you scale, you see

439
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:23.839
<v Speaker 2>that same behavior happen in kind of every segment. So

440
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:27.160
<v Speaker 2>obviously you have education, you have you know, the economy

441
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.359
<v Speaker 2>as well. Right when you are it has made very

442
00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:33.519
<v Speaker 2>clear to you that your place of work has no

443
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:37.079
<v Speaker 2>loyalty to you whatsoever. Yeah, right, that they will, at

444
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the drop of a hat outsource your position, hire someone

445
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:43.079
<v Speaker 2>who looks a different way.

446
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Right, And if you're that happen to your older siblings,

447
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:50.599
<v Speaker 1>you see that happen to your parents, you know, like

448
00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:54.480
<v Speaker 1>like that's been going on, that that zero loyalty to employees,

449
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:57.039
<v Speaker 1>Like that's that's been the case since like the nineteen seventies.

450
00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Now, oh one hundred percent. Like one of the examples

451
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:06.200
<v Speaker 2>I think of is how incredibly competitive college admissions have become, right,

452
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.640
<v Speaker 2>where you have a wider and wider group of people

453
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:13.599
<v Speaker 2>competing for kind of a smaller and smaller kind of

454
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:18.480
<v Speaker 2>roadway to you know, the upper middle class. And what

455
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:20.559
<v Speaker 2>I've seen, you know, even when I was applying to

456
00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:25.119
<v Speaker 2>schools ten years ago, right I'm old now, but was

457
00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:28.920
<v Speaker 2>that it was sort of comedic, Right, how much better

458
00:27:29.559 --> 00:27:31.960
<v Speaker 2>even you know, the white girls in class would do

459
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:35.160
<v Speaker 2>than you. You know, you a small school like I

460
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:37.200
<v Speaker 2>went to, you kind of knew how smart everyone was.

461
00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:39.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, sure there's some who were, you know, particularly

462
00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:42.319
<v Speaker 2>good test takers, but you kind of know, right, and

463
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:45.319
<v Speaker 2>you're looking around and you're like, wait a minute, how

464
00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:48.279
<v Speaker 2>did she how did he manage to get into that

465
00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:51.400
<v Speaker 2>school that I got denied from. I know that I've got,

466
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:54.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, a better GPA. You start to get a

467
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:56.720
<v Speaker 2>little bitter about it. I even think of guys who

468
00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:58.799
<v Speaker 2>are younger than me, you know, who are who are

469
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:00.519
<v Speaker 2>in kind of my social group, you know, who are

470
00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.640
<v Speaker 2>applying now were already have and man, it's it's grim.

471
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:08.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, You've got kids that are you know, academically gifted,

472
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.880
<v Speaker 2>captain of you know, sports teams, and they're you know,

473
00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.640
<v Speaker 2>happy to get into kind of like third tier state

474
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:16.880
<v Speaker 2>schools which look like there's there's other elements to it.

475
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:18.039
<v Speaker 2>College is kind of fake.

476
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:18.319
<v Speaker 1>You know.

477
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:20.480
<v Speaker 2>There's a big article and I think Bloomberg that came

478
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:25.079
<v Speaker 2>out basically tracking your return on investment, which basically said,

479
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:28.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, anything out of the top fifty is functionally

480
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the same.

481
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

482
00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:32.079
<v Speaker 2>That's again a discussion for another day. But it is

483
00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:35.839
<v Speaker 2>a huge status game. Yeah, and it's demoralizing when you

484
00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:38.480
<v Speaker 2>think about, you know, your parents are kind of older

485
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:44.039
<v Speaker 2>people in your family who didn't apply themselves particularly much

486
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:47.359
<v Speaker 2>and got into that kind of upper echalot.

487
00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:51.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they've all reasoned about how they would screw around

488
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:54.359
<v Speaker 1>when they were kids, and you know, all the mistakes

489
00:28:54.440 --> 00:28:56.519
<v Speaker 1>they made and then they just kind of stumbled into

490
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:58.200
<v Speaker 1>a good life and you're like, oh, it's not nice,

491
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.799
<v Speaker 1>you know, and like and then meanwhile you look around

492
00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:05.680
<v Speaker 1>and because of that intense competition, you've got like just

493
00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:09.559
<v Speaker 1>insane levels of striverdom of like, you know, kids like

494
00:29:09.880 --> 00:29:13.039
<v Speaker 1>trying to min max their college applications starting when they're

495
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:16.759
<v Speaker 1>fourteen years old. You know, particularly with like Asian and

496
00:29:16.839 --> 00:29:20.640
<v Speaker 1>South Asian students are pretty bad for that, although well

497
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:23.119
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of the white girls do this as well.

498
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:29.279
<v Speaker 1>And then you know, and that's like soul crushing all

499
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:32.119
<v Speaker 1>on its own, right, Like it's demoralizing seeing people that

500
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:33.960
<v Speaker 1>live like that. You're like is it worth it? Though?

501
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:37.200
<v Speaker 1>Like do I want to succeed if that's the price.

502
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:39.079
<v Speaker 1>And then on top of that, of course, you have

503
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:42.160
<v Speaker 1>all the DEI from of action stuff where you consistently

504
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:47.319
<v Speaker 1>see people getting elevated to levels that you know that

505
00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:52.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, like you're like, well, I would have been

506
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:56.200
<v Speaker 1>qualified to do that, more qualified because that person's an

507
00:29:56.359 --> 00:29:59.319
<v Speaker 1>idiot how they get in because they were a black

508
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:03.319
<v Speaker 1>woman or you know whatever, And yeah, like all of

509
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:09.000
<v Speaker 1>that contributes to just like the general like destruction of motivation.

510
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:13.759
<v Speaker 1>And that's actually a really bad thing, right, Like, I'm

511
00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:19.839
<v Speaker 1>not making excuses for in action or laziness. It's actually

512
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:28.359
<v Speaker 1>incredibly poisonous because like that, when you get like that demoralized,

513
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:31.920
<v Speaker 1>you have a tendency to just kind of like sit

514
00:30:32.079 --> 00:30:33.839
<v Speaker 1>back and be like, Okay, screw it, and then you

515
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:40.640
<v Speaker 1>don't do anything with yourself, right, it's uh, And then

516
00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:45.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, and then you start developing bad, lazy habits

517
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:47.079
<v Speaker 1>as a result of that, and you come back like

518
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:49.039
<v Speaker 1>ten years later and like and you're kind of a

519
00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:51.480
<v Speaker 1>piece of shit actually, right. It turns into this sort

520
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:54.200
<v Speaker 1>of like self feel like prophecy where the system deprives

521
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:56.680
<v Speaker 1>you of opportunity and then as a result, you end

522
00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:58.400
<v Speaker 1>up being the kind of person that shouldn't be given

523
00:30:58.480 --> 00:30:59.119
<v Speaker 1>opportunity to.

524
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.759
<v Speaker 2>Well. And funny enough, this is actually a point from

525
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:07.920
<v Speaker 2>famous Canadian Kermit the Frog impersonator Jordan B. Peterson. We're

526
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.640
<v Speaker 2>gonna mention rats a lot in this one. I didn't

527
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:12.920
<v Speaker 2>mean to, but you know what, I guess it's the

528
00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:15.440
<v Speaker 2>theme of the episode. But he has the example of

529
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, rats playing and one of the things he

530
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.400
<v Speaker 2>said is that look like if you know in this

531
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:25.200
<v Speaker 2>this sort of play, this cooperative game. The rats fight,

532
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.000
<v Speaker 2>it's like you know, puppies or whatever. And if the

533
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:34.200
<v Speaker 2>weaker rat isn't allowed to win at least a certain percentage,

534
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:37.400
<v Speaker 2>he gives up. The game ends. He just slops over

535
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:42.359
<v Speaker 2>and accepts it. And again, much like our earlier rat example,

536
00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:45.839
<v Speaker 2>that is not, I guess you could say that the

537
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:49.440
<v Speaker 2>correct thing to do on sort of a mathematical level.

538
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:55.079
<v Speaker 2>But man is an animal, right, we have those same instincts.

539
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:57.680
<v Speaker 2>And you hear a lot you know, of course you

540
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:00.400
<v Speaker 2>mentioned quiet quitting, but also you've heard, you know, a

541
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:04.640
<v Speaker 2>number of articles about the phenomenon of you know, young neats.

542
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:06.759
<v Speaker 2>They don't quite use the term, but men who've just

543
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:10.960
<v Speaker 2>checked out. You're seeing this already in education, where higher

544
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:14.039
<v Speaker 2>education's on track to be about sixty forty female male.

545
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:17.599
<v Speaker 2>You're seeing this in the corporate world, you know, and

546
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:20.960
<v Speaker 2>look understandably, there's another part of this which is just

547
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:25.400
<v Speaker 2>blatant discrimination and hiring. The sort of a chilling example.

548
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.319
<v Speaker 2>One of my buddies is, you know, running out. He's

549
00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:30.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, moving on to something else, and so he

550
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:34.440
<v Speaker 2>has kind of a long runway before that, and you know,

551
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:36.559
<v Speaker 2>he's kind of a dead man walking, and so people

552
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:41.000
<v Speaker 2>are talking to him quite frankly, and he recounted an

553
00:32:41.079 --> 00:32:43.920
<v Speaker 2>experience with one of his higher ups who is basically

554
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:47.559
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, you know, bemoaning the low quality

555
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:51.599
<v Speaker 2>of the diversity hires and then wondering why quote, why

556
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:54.759
<v Speaker 2>don't we ever see people like you? And you know,

557
00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:58.440
<v Speaker 2>Jesus might listen to this, but he was sort of

558
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:01.720
<v Speaker 2>struck by that, right, like, you mean, you would.

559
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Would be in a murderous rage of that right.

560
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.759
<v Speaker 2>And to be fair, I don't think this woman was malicious.

561
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:11.720
<v Speaker 2>She was also complaining about hr but an older woman

562
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:15.440
<v Speaker 2>from a previous generation who clearly doesn't get it. Yeah,

563
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:17.799
<v Speaker 2>one d there is a problem with guys dropping.

564
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:22.720
<v Speaker 1>I can't find like competent diversity God dammage. And then

565
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:26.440
<v Speaker 1>this is like, you know, at a societal level, this

566
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:31.880
<v Speaker 1>is going to shape up to potentially be one of

567
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:35.359
<v Speaker 1>the greatest tragedies has ever befallen our civilization, because like

568
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.519
<v Speaker 1>expertise needs to be passed on, people need to be

569
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:42.720
<v Speaker 1>trained into it. They need to be given those education

570
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:46.440
<v Speaker 1>and it's a very delicate process of you know, mentors

571
00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:56.359
<v Speaker 1>identifying the potential mentees who have the qualities required like

572
00:33:56.359 --> 00:33:59.680
<v Speaker 1>they have the potential to actually learn the things that

573
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.240
<v Speaker 1>need to learn, and then going through all the extremely

574
00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:06.920
<v Speaker 1>difficult work of educating them, which you know, for a

575
00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:09.519
<v Speaker 1>lot of professions like that can take like ten years, right,

576
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:15.960
<v Speaker 1>And so you know, if you have someone who has

577
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.840
<v Speaker 1>all the potential but they're not given that opportunity, God,

578
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:20.519
<v Speaker 1>I sound woke now, right like, because like this is

579
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:22.400
<v Speaker 1>exactly the kind of talking point that you'd hear from

580
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.000
<v Speaker 1>them all the time back when de I was getting

581
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:25.960
<v Speaker 1>rolled out in the first place.

582
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:28.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, John Carter, I'll have you know you are a

583
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:31.639
<v Speaker 2>member of the woke, right even totally right?

584
00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, guilty, right, Like, but you know this was like

585
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:37.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, under the under the the assumption that you know,

586
00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:40.719
<v Speaker 1>like the perfect human equality, right Like they always say like,

587
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:42.599
<v Speaker 1>oh well, they're just not given the opportunities. That's why

588
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:47.800
<v Speaker 1>they can't succeed. And they've now inflicted that, right So

589
00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:51.519
<v Speaker 1>they they you know, yanked all that opportunity away from

590
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the young white guys, which has led to them being demoralized.

591
00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:59.199
<v Speaker 1>But you know, just as importantly, they haven't gotten that

592
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:02.320
<v Speaker 1>education that t training uh to do what they could

593
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:05.960
<v Speaker 1>have done otherwise. And in a lot of cases, it

594
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:07.519
<v Speaker 1>will just be too late for them by the time

595
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:10.039
<v Speaker 1>this all sort of the fever burns itself out. And

596
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:15.159
<v Speaker 1>then meanwhile, all of the efforts of education was then

597
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:20.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of squandered on these people who couldn't benefit from

598
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.960
<v Speaker 1>it because they're they're idiots, or in the case of

599
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:26.320
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the girl boss types, they might not

600
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:30.159
<v Speaker 1>be stupid exactly, it's just like temperamentally, they don't have

601
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:33.639
<v Speaker 1>what it takes to be you know, a high level

602
00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:38.480
<v Speaker 1>creatives or you know, like good doctors or scientists or

603
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:42.360
<v Speaker 1>engineers or what have you. You know, they're probably well

604
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:47.400
<v Speaker 1>suited to to raising babies who will like smart babies

605
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:49.960
<v Speaker 1>who will then later become scientists, doctors and engineers, but

606
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:52.679
<v Speaker 1>like they're not suited to it themselves because they're women.

607
00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:57.639
<v Speaker 1>And then we're going to have that sound of the

608
00:35:57.679 --> 00:35:59.920
<v Speaker 1>situation where like all of the people in the profession

609
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:06.880
<v Speaker 1>don't have the talent necessary to actually carry out their

610
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:09.920
<v Speaker 1>professional duties. All the people who could have been trained

611
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:12.719
<v Speaker 1>to do that weren't and are kind of rotting in

612
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.840
<v Speaker 1>the fields. And then what happens after that, right, because

613
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:19.519
<v Speaker 1>now you've got this like, you know, the people who

614
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:21.840
<v Speaker 1>would then have to do the training, like the new

615
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:26.000
<v Speaker 1>body of professionals are too retarded to have actually learned

616
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:27.880
<v Speaker 1>what they needed to learn, so they can't pass it

617
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:28.360
<v Speaker 1>on either.

618
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:34.519
<v Speaker 2>Well, and here's the thing, I've remarked on this several

619
00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:40.960
<v Speaker 2>times that almost everyone in my peer group is downwardly mobile. Yeah,

620
00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:45.039
<v Speaker 2>with a few notable exceptions. And look, you know the

621
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:48.239
<v Speaker 2>old adage about you know, if you meet one bad driver,

622
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:51.719
<v Speaker 2>it's them, If you meet meet three, it's you.

623
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Holt.

624
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:56.199
<v Speaker 2>You know, if it were just simply me and all

625
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:59.559
<v Speaker 2>my peers were wildly successful, then you know what, I'm

626
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.760
<v Speaker 2>a loose all right. I feel like that's not true, because,

627
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:06.639
<v Speaker 2>to be honest, most people I know are not doing

628
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:09.840
<v Speaker 2>as well as their parents, and the guys who are

629
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:11.760
<v Speaker 2>are uniquely talented.

630
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:15.320
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, I don't know anyone who is as

631
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:18.440
<v Speaker 1>doing as well as their parents, unless unless in the

632
00:37:18.519 --> 00:37:20.800
<v Speaker 1>rare case where they really came from, like a particularly

633
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:25.960
<v Speaker 1>impoverished background. But yeah, anyone who's like middle class.

634
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:29.519
<v Speaker 2>Like no, Yeah, I mean I can legitimately think of

635
00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:34.639
<v Speaker 2>two off the top of my head. And even if

636
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:37.960
<v Speaker 2>we lower the standard to simply having a professional job

637
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:43.039
<v Speaker 2>or having benefits, we're probably hit around forty to fifty percent, right,

638
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:46.320
<v Speaker 2>less than half, and you know, I'm nearly thirty at

639
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:48.199
<v Speaker 2>this point, right, the kind of point where you're supposed

640
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:52.559
<v Speaker 2>to be through that figuring it out stage, and yeah,

641
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:57.000
<v Speaker 2>it's it's incredibly radicalizing, especially when you kind of do

642
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:00.159
<v Speaker 2>the math, because you're like, okay, well, the argument that

643
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.960
<v Speaker 2>all of these disadvantaged groups could be they are simply

644
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:08.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, aspiring astrophysicists, right that just given the opportunities,

645
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:11.480
<v Speaker 2>they could go to space camp and we'll have you know,

646
00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:12.360
<v Speaker 2>a new golden age.

647
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:14.400
<v Speaker 1>I'll be rocket scientists exactly.

648
00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:19.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like you know, rocket surgeons and all that. And well,

649
00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:20.559
<v Speaker 2>has it happened?

650
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:23.039
<v Speaker 1>No, it hasn't.

651
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:25.360
<v Speaker 2>If you've been in the corporate world, if you've been

652
00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:28.679
<v Speaker 2>in education, it hasn't. And when you're thinking, well, you know,

653
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.039
<v Speaker 2>even within my own family, like setting aside the broader

654
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:35.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of like cultural or ethnic block, seemingly people a

655
00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:37.320
<v Speaker 2>lot like me, you know, shared a lot of my

656
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:41.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, genetic makeup. Certainly my culture seem to have

657
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:46.440
<v Speaker 2>done fine. And if everyone in that you know, similar

658
00:38:46.519 --> 00:38:52.599
<v Speaker 2>culture and genetic background is downwardly mobile, the individual explanation, well,

659
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.559
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't seem to hold up. But it can't just

660
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:58.679
<v Speaker 2>be that everyone under the age of thirty is retarded.

661
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:01.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, and this is why whenever you

662
00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:07.440
<v Speaker 1>see like boomer con types handing out advice this this

663
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:10.440
<v Speaker 1>gets right to the heart of why that always elictits

664
00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:16.599
<v Speaker 1>such rage, because everyone under a certain age understands full

665
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:20.280
<v Speaker 1>well that this is these are systemic issues, right, this

666
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:23.480
<v Speaker 1>is this is a matter of we'll go into the

667
00:39:23.559 --> 00:39:25.199
<v Speaker 1>issues because we all kind of know what they are.

668
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:30.800
<v Speaker 1>And then everyone over a certain age sort of refuses

669
00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:32.880
<v Speaker 1>to see that in a large part because they were,

670
00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:37.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, participants in creating that those systemic issues, and

671
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:39.320
<v Speaker 1>they individualize it. They're like, oh, well, you just need

672
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:41.280
<v Speaker 1>to work harder, right, it doesn't matter if you're talking

673
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:45.199
<v Speaker 1>about like you know, the economy or getting married and

674
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:48.280
<v Speaker 1>having kids or you know whatever it happens to be.

675
00:39:48.519 --> 00:39:50.440
<v Speaker 1>Like they always kind of like focus it on this

676
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:55.360
<v Speaker 1>like individual level. And it's like, yeah, you know, obviously,

677
00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:57.320
<v Speaker 1>like you want to have you want to be a

678
00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:00.639
<v Speaker 1>high agency person. You don't want to like sit there

679
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:03.400
<v Speaker 1>bemoaning like woe is me. But at the same time,

680
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:08.239
<v Speaker 1>like you need to be aware of these systemic conditions

681
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:13.039
<v Speaker 1>because like you know, those kinds of things cannot be

682
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:15.320
<v Speaker 1>solved at the individual level. They can only be solved

683
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:16.840
<v Speaker 1>at the political level.

684
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:23.239
<v Speaker 2>And I think that look, a lot of that advice

685
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:28.960
<v Speaker 2>is is mel well meaning, and I get it, right.

686
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I understand that if someone you know asks you for

687
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:35.000
<v Speaker 2>trouble or asks you for help with their trouble landing

688
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:37.960
<v Speaker 2>a date, for instance, you'll offer that kind of boom

689
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:40.880
<v Speaker 2>er advice. You'd be like, I don't know, man, get

690
00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:44.920
<v Speaker 2>in better shape, you know, maybe get a new barber, go.

691
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:49.800
<v Speaker 3>Talk to girls more, right, And because it's directionally to

692
00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:53.400
<v Speaker 3>the bar and buy a girl a drink, Yeah, Like,

693
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:57.119
<v Speaker 3>directionally that is correct, And particularly in some examples, I

694
00:40:57.159 --> 00:40:59.559
<v Speaker 3>think we can all think of guys who actually do

695
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:02.000
<v Speaker 3>need that advice, you know, regardless of the culture that

696
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:02.440
<v Speaker 3>they'd be in.

697
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:05.679
<v Speaker 2>If you're you know, BMI starts with a four and

698
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:08.199
<v Speaker 2>you know you kind of look a little bit like

699
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:13.400
<v Speaker 2>Asmin Gold, that probably wouldn't help you, you know. But

700
00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:16.519
<v Speaker 2>at the same time, the frustration comes from the fact of, like, well,

701
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:22.360
<v Speaker 2>look like that's peanuts in comparison to these deep structural

702
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:28.679
<v Speaker 2>systemic issues, Like the problems that we've outlined are very

703
00:41:29.039 --> 00:41:32.800
<v Speaker 2>very real, and when you've especially if you feel as

704
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:35.360
<v Speaker 2>if you've already run through to kind of pull yourself

705
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:38.079
<v Speaker 2>up by your bootstrap's advice. You know, you've done the

706
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:41.400
<v Speaker 2>hard work, you've done the entry level career where you

707
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:44.360
<v Speaker 2>grind to try and press your boss, and when it

708
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:47.239
<v Speaker 2>doesn't come around, it's like, well look, man again. It's

709
00:41:47.320 --> 00:41:52.559
<v Speaker 2>like when you're offered two slightly smaller marshmallows. It's like, well, look,

710
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:56.239
<v Speaker 2>at a certain point, I'm the idiot for continuing to play.

711
00:41:56.519 --> 00:41:58.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm Charlie Brown running up to the football

712
00:41:58.840 --> 00:42:00.519
<v Speaker 2>for the twenty fifth time. I saw some.

713
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:04.559
<v Speaker 1>I saw some I saw some tweets several months ago,

714
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.639
<v Speaker 1>because this is just like a perennial part of the

715
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:12.639
<v Speaker 1>discourse right time is a flat circle. And it was

716
00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:16.039
<v Speaker 1>like the guy was saying something like how every every

717
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.920
<v Speaker 1>like really intelligent guy he knows who has like, you know,

718
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:25.280
<v Speaker 1>like a physics degree and uh giant IQ or whatever,

719
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:29.039
<v Speaker 1>Like they've all dropped out and they're like beach bums

720
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:32.440
<v Speaker 1>working at like bars down and like the Caribbean or something,

721
00:42:32.599 --> 00:42:35.960
<v Speaker 1>and like and it's like, yeah, actually, and I've met

722
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:38.679
<v Speaker 1>those guys, you know, and like, and the fact is

723
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:41.519
<v Speaker 1>they're they're actually happier. You know, their their lives are

724
00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:47.320
<v Speaker 1>completely aimless, but like they're way happier they were than

725
00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:48.920
<v Speaker 1>they were in they were striving because like and it's

726
00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:51.079
<v Speaker 1>like the fight club things need to let go, right,

727
00:42:51.159 --> 00:42:55.400
<v Speaker 1>It's like they've just like abandoned any hope of like

728
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:59.679
<v Speaker 1>being upwardly mobile, of having that kind of upper mobile

729
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:04.719
<v Speaker 1>class life and professional respects and all of these kinds

730
00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:06.199
<v Speaker 1>of things. And they're just like, you know what, I'm

731
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:09.239
<v Speaker 1>just gonna it's gonna go hang out in the sun,

732
00:43:10.480 --> 00:43:16.280
<v Speaker 1>serve people muyeties on the beach and like have sex

733
00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:17.440
<v Speaker 1>with the waitresses.

734
00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:21.159
<v Speaker 2>And look you meet one of those. It's kind of

735
00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:24.840
<v Speaker 2>a charming eccentricity. You know. Oh that's a funny path

736
00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:28.000
<v Speaker 2>through life. But once you know half a dozen, it's like, well,

737
00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:31.199
<v Speaker 2>this is a grave miss out location of human resources.

738
00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh put it mildly.

739
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:35.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is this is this is the pathways

740
00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:37.440
<v Speaker 1>was getting out before. This is how we end up

741
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:44.679
<v Speaker 1>losing indoor plumbing inside two generations, right, because like, if

742
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:48.440
<v Speaker 1>you're not cultivating your high quality human capital, like if

743
00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:53.599
<v Speaker 1>you're not making sure that knowledge is getting passed to

744
00:43:53.960 --> 00:43:57.000
<v Speaker 1>those people who can use it, then that knowledge will

745
00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:01.079
<v Speaker 1>just get lost and it happens very quickly, like that

746
00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:04.199
<v Speaker 1>could happen in one generation, and then once it's lost,

747
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:09.239
<v Speaker 1>it's gone and can be rediscovered. But usually, you know,

748
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:12.039
<v Speaker 1>like rediscovering something is a lot more work than just

749
00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:16.519
<v Speaker 1>passing it on. And uh, I feel like we're already

750
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:21.639
<v Speaker 1>seeing like signs of that that kind of systemic instability,

751
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:25.360
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of sort of just like little experiences

752
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:27.800
<v Speaker 1>I've had over the last year or so of like

753
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:32.679
<v Speaker 1>things that should work but don't. And it's always like,

754
00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:37.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, things like scheduling scheduling issues or like you know,

755
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:40.360
<v Speaker 1>database type stuff that like like the kinds of things

756
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:42.960
<v Speaker 1>that would be handled at the corporate head office, which

757
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.239
<v Speaker 1>you just know is packed full of diversity hires, and

758
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:49.199
<v Speaker 1>just like just retarded mistakes that just cause like immense

759
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:52.760
<v Speaker 1>amounts of chaos downstream because like someone forgot like didn't

760
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:58.519
<v Speaker 1>do the logistics properly. And uh yeah, it was like

761
00:44:58.599 --> 00:45:00.639
<v Speaker 1>that that I'd say in play em a couple of

762
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:04.760
<v Speaker 1>years ago. It's like the uh, what was it a

763
00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:10.320
<v Speaker 1>competency crisis and the collapse of complex systems or something

764
00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:15.400
<v Speaker 1>like that, which is prophetic.

765
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:21.519
<v Speaker 2>So the the reaction to this has been extraordinarily poor. Look,

766
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:24.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, some of this is simply, you know, old

767
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:27.400
<v Speaker 2>men looking at young men's problems. That's a certain amount

768
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:34.320
<v Speaker 2>of that's perennial. But the reaction, particularly from right wing

769
00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:38.599
<v Speaker 2>cultural institutions, you know, whether those are our churches, whether

770
00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:41.280
<v Speaker 2>those are you know, political parties, whether those are just

771
00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:44.000
<v Speaker 2>the kind of you know, think tanks and media organizations,

772
00:45:44.039 --> 00:45:47.719
<v Speaker 2>has been astonishingly poor. You, of course, remember what happened

773
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:51.599
<v Speaker 2>at Heritage not too long ago. What's happened at all

774
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:54.360
<v Speaker 2>of the different kind of Republican feeder organizations. There was

775
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:55.239
<v Speaker 2>an all out war.

776
00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:57.239
<v Speaker 1>Remind me what happened at Heritage.

777
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, when the president of Heritage refused to ritually

778
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:07.599
<v Speaker 2>denounced Tucker Carlson because one of the usual suspects demanded it,

779
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:11.119
<v Speaker 2>they went on a full scale witch hunt, which included

780
00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:18.360
<v Speaker 2>trying to force quite conservative, practicing Roman Catholics to eat

781
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:24.559
<v Speaker 2>Shabbat dinner, which is not permitted, and then when they

782
00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:28.119
<v Speaker 2>didn't do that, that was used as a proof of

783
00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:33.559
<v Speaker 2>their deep and abiding ethnic hatred. Yeah. Of course, but

784
00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:36.840
<v Speaker 2>we've seen these same purges directed primarily at young men

785
00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:41.440
<v Speaker 2>on the idea justified because they are all quote unquote gropers.

786
00:46:41.960 --> 00:46:45.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like the young Republicans like a year exactly.

787
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And here's a tweet, actually a tweet with a

788
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:56.320
<v Speaker 2>response from Meghan Basham, who is sort of a kind

789
00:46:56.360 --> 00:47:02.079
<v Speaker 2>of like IDW adjacent of conservative watchdog, you know, big

790
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:05.000
<v Speaker 2>about you know, the kind of rooting out the woke stuff,

791
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:07.880
<v Speaker 2>but very much on the kind of worried about the

792
00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:13.199
<v Speaker 2>woke right train. So if you can put yeah, yeah,

793
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:18.360
<v Speaker 2>well she she writes for the Daily Wire, So yeah,

794
00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:23.239
<v Speaker 2>you got the type total. So I'll read this one

795
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:25.800
<v Speaker 2>and then I'll read a response because I think this

796
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:30.760
<v Speaker 2>this perfectly describes the issue, right, So Meghan says, discussing

797
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:33.480
<v Speaker 2>why young white men are suddenly much more attracted to

798
00:47:33.559 --> 00:47:37.280
<v Speaker 2>the wicked ideologies of Nazism and white supremacy no more

799
00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:41.480
<v Speaker 2>legitimizes or exposes their sins, and discussing how the breakdown

800
00:47:41.559 --> 00:47:43.360
<v Speaker 2>of the black family has led to higher rates of

801
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:46.800
<v Speaker 2>black crime legitimizes those sins. Why are we suddenly not

802
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:49.960
<v Speaker 2>allowed to talk about how we got here? So fairly reasonable,

803
00:47:50.199 --> 00:47:52.840
<v Speaker 2>you know. She takes a different view on several things

804
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:55.280
<v Speaker 2>in that than I have, but a legitimate question.

805
00:47:55.440 --> 00:48:00.280
<v Speaker 1>But she's not like Condemntory in the same in an

806
00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:01.440
<v Speaker 1>unreflective way.

807
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I agree with, yes, like she has a conservative view

808
00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:07.039
<v Speaker 2>of many things which I don't agree with, but it

809
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:10.880
<v Speaker 2>seems to be, you know, in good faith. And then

810
00:48:11.199 --> 00:48:14.960
<v Speaker 2>a secondary guy replies and all sort of surmise this

811
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:17.559
<v Speaker 2>because or summarized this rather because it's quite a long post.

812
00:48:18.199 --> 00:48:21.559
<v Speaker 2>But a character Will Spencer, who's again sort of an

813
00:48:21.639 --> 00:48:25.920
<v Speaker 2>infamous character really going after you know, the Christian nationalist types,

814
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:28.159
<v Speaker 2>which I'm not a Christian nationalist, but a lot of

815
00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:32.599
<v Speaker 2>my friends are, so I have no great affection for him.

816
00:48:33.000 --> 00:48:36.840
<v Speaker 2>So basically he goes on to talking about how really

817
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:40.320
<v Speaker 2>what this is is all a giant op right, It's

818
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:45.559
<v Speaker 2>a giant plan to get at exactly how George Lincoln

819
00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Rockwell infiltrated the space. And he says that if you

820
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:52.360
<v Speaker 2>have objections to the way things are set up, it's

821
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:55.800
<v Speaker 2>because you are a secret member of the American Nazi Party.

822
00:48:56.239 --> 00:49:00.000
<v Speaker 2>The only way you can have criticisms of the current

823
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:04.119
<v Speaker 2>system is either if you are an insane, woke leftist

824
00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:08.559
<v Speaker 2>or the mirror image the so called woke right woke.

825
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:11.039
<v Speaker 1>The surprise he didn't rise, he didn't connect that to

826
00:49:11.119 --> 00:49:13.559
<v Speaker 1>the the SPLC. Now that we know that the SPOC

827
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:15.599
<v Speaker 1>was literally funding the American Nazi Party.

828
00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:18.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, John, I don't mean to break it to you.

829
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:22.079
<v Speaker 2>He's not particularly bright. He'll probably get there. We'll give

830
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:24.679
<v Speaker 2>him a couple of weeks of hard thinking and maybe

831
00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:26.880
<v Speaker 2>he'll get there. But that's that's at least one level

832
00:49:26.920 --> 00:49:29.199
<v Speaker 2>of abstraction. And I think that we're dealing with a

833
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.599
<v Speaker 2>with a you know, a real smooth brained individual. But

834
00:49:32.679 --> 00:49:36.320
<v Speaker 2>suffice it to say that reaction that, oh, you have

835
00:49:36.519 --> 00:49:40.559
<v Speaker 2>complaints when someone says like, yeah, guys are being driven

836
00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:44.039
<v Speaker 2>into a dark place by this. Now, I may disagree

837
00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:48.920
<v Speaker 2>with her diagnosis on exactly what part of radical young

838
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:51.239
<v Speaker 2>men is the dark part, although I think we can

839
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:53.920
<v Speaker 2>all say there clearly is something there. You know, look

840
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:56.320
<v Speaker 2>at a lot of the a lot of what happens

841
00:49:56.360 --> 00:49:58.400
<v Speaker 2>in the in cell community, a lot of what happens

842
00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:01.280
<v Speaker 2>in the kind of like really you know, dark kind

843
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:06.800
<v Speaker 2>of nihilist, violent extremist category. I realized that's a goofy term,

844
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:09.800
<v Speaker 2>but like, there are guys like that, and you can say, like,

845
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:12.760
<v Speaker 2>there's clearly a danger to pushing that, to pushing guys

846
00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:15.440
<v Speaker 2>to that limit, to convincing them there's no point in

847
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:18.679
<v Speaker 2>playing the game. You're screwed. You can't get into politics,

848
00:50:18.719 --> 00:50:21.559
<v Speaker 2>you can't get into academia, you can't enter the professional world.

849
00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:26.920
<v Speaker 2>They go somewhere, and the reaction from the nominal right wing,

850
00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:31.960
<v Speaker 2>who is perhaps best set to answer these concerns, to

851
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:35.960
<v Speaker 2>answer these questions, they are, at least on their face,

852
00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:40.519
<v Speaker 2>not ideologically opposed to the existence of young white men,

853
00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:43.480
<v Speaker 2>as our counterparts on the left are, well, what are

854
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:46.800
<v Speaker 2>they met with? They're met with exactly the same thing. Oh,

855
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:51.159
<v Speaker 2>you're not doing well. It's because of you. You are inherently,

856
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:56.000
<v Speaker 2>unredeemably broken. It's exactly the same thing that drove so

857
00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:59.280
<v Speaker 2>many people away from the left half a generation before.

858
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:04.239
<v Speaker 1>You're literally a Nazi, yes, yes.

859
00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:07.760
<v Speaker 2>Which to your point time is a flat circle because

860
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:11.440
<v Speaker 2>many people from for instance, the Daily Wire, like one

861
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:14.480
<v Speaker 2>Benjamin Shapiro, loved to make fun of people for saying

862
00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:16.519
<v Speaker 2>that ten years ago.

863
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:21.679
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, the Hitler on the Rainbow Slide means like, yeah,

864
00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:26.519
<v Speaker 1>totally everyone I don't like his Hitler. I know there

865
00:51:26.599 --> 00:51:28.639
<v Speaker 1>was like a Rod Dreer, I think it was Rodreyer,

866
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.519
<v Speaker 1>one of those typically sort of like wet John Wyn.

867
00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:34.280
<v Speaker 2>You have to be you have to be careful with

868
00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:37.119
<v Speaker 2>me and Rodreer, I will say things that will lend

869
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:40.599
<v Speaker 2>to the deletion of my channel if we go on

870
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:43.800
<v Speaker 2>for about Rod Dreer for too long, So I will

871
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:46.519
<v Speaker 2>try to keep myself from interjecting.

872
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:50.199
<v Speaker 1>I do not like him with that. Yeah, no, I'm

873
00:51:50.360 --> 00:51:54.719
<v Speaker 1>not not a huge fan myself. So he had but

874
00:51:54.840 --> 00:52:00.400
<v Speaker 1>he had this very typical kind of Dreer essay months

875
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:05.360
<v Speaker 1>ago where he went to DC and he was sort

876
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:10.840
<v Speaker 1>of mixing with all of the Republican staffers. Yeah.

877
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:14.440
<v Speaker 2>I actually I wrote my first ever magazine article in

878
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:16.480
<v Speaker 2>response to this because it made me that bad.

879
00:52:17.159 --> 00:52:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah, no, it got under my skin too.

880
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:28.159
<v Speaker 1>But what kind of struck me is the they have

881
00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:33.920
<v Speaker 1>very little like insight into like why this happens, right,

882
00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:38.639
<v Speaker 1>Like they don't and they don't actually understand what is happening,

883
00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:43.440
<v Speaker 1>which I think it's so the number of like un

884
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:49.360
<v Speaker 1>ironic like gnat socks that I've run into is very small,

885
00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:54.239
<v Speaker 1>Like it's the number of people who will make painter

886
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:58.960
<v Speaker 1>jokes is almost one hundred percent inside of a thing, right,

887
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:03.480
<v Speaker 1>so what you know what's going on there? Uh? And

888
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:11.400
<v Speaker 1>basically we've all grown up inside this oppressive system that

889
00:53:13.039 --> 00:53:17.760
<v Speaker 1>uh you know, using the painter and his whole thing

890
00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:22.960
<v Speaker 1>as like the excuse makes us the permanent villains of

891
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:28.199
<v Speaker 1>every narrative and then uses that to justify taking everything

892
00:53:28.280 --> 00:53:32.559
<v Speaker 1>from us. And you know this and this kind of dynamic,

893
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:35.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, you know it goes back to like elementary school,

894
00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:41.679
<v Speaker 1>you know, if you're young enough. So like when you

895
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:45.960
<v Speaker 1>sort of click to that and understand what's going on there,

896
00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:50.719
<v Speaker 1>you know there's obviously gonna you're going to feel a

897
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:54.559
<v Speaker 1>certain degree of injustice there. And by you know, making

898
00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.480
<v Speaker 1>sort of jokes about you know, happy merchants or what

899
00:53:59.639 --> 00:54:03.519
<v Speaker 1>have you. You you're essentially signaling. It's a form they

900
00:54:03.599 --> 00:54:06.920
<v Speaker 1>call it vice signaling. Sometimes you're especially signaling to the

901
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:10.360
<v Speaker 1>other guys around you that you do not hold these

902
00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:15.679
<v Speaker 1>things sacred, which you know that your oppressors hold sacred.

903
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:18.239
<v Speaker 1>It's a it's a way of sort of saying, like

904
00:54:18.360 --> 00:54:20.320
<v Speaker 1>saying to all the other guys, like, listen, it's okay

905
00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:23.760
<v Speaker 1>to like talk frankly with me, because I get it

906
00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:26.360
<v Speaker 1>too right. So it doesn't necessarily mean that you like

907
00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:29.800
<v Speaker 1>you hate the Jews or whatever. It just means that

908
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:32.519
<v Speaker 1>you don't take anything about that discourse seriously at all.

909
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:35.960
<v Speaker 1>It's not a concern for you, Right, you're not going

910
00:54:36.039 --> 00:54:39.000
<v Speaker 1>to like get like you're not going to like you know, uh,

911
00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:41.239
<v Speaker 1>You're not the kind of person who's going to have

912
00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:47.199
<v Speaker 1>a nervous breakdown if some kind of emotional trigger word

913
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:54.239
<v Speaker 1>is used in your presence. And guys like Dreyer like

914
00:54:54.320 --> 00:54:56.840
<v Speaker 1>they're still deep inside that they still have all those

915
00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:59.639
<v Speaker 1>triggers implanted in their mind. They still have a lot

916
00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:03.760
<v Speaker 1>of motional conditioning layered and layered on them, which makes

917
00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:05.519
<v Speaker 1>it so that you just you can't talk to them

918
00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:08.599
<v Speaker 1>actually because like you know, like you know, if you

919
00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:13.840
<v Speaker 1>say the wrong thing, they will denounce, right. And you know,

920
00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:16.519
<v Speaker 1>to a large that there's a large amount of like

921
00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:22.400
<v Speaker 1>generational separation there because like that's you know, amongst younger people,

922
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:25.119
<v Speaker 1>like it's generally just like liberal women who are like that.

923
00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:31.039
<v Speaker 1>But amongst the older generation, they're pretty much all like that.

924
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:33.639
<v Speaker 1>Whether they're conservative or liberal, it doesn't really make a

925
00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:39.480
<v Speaker 1>difference actually, Like so yeah, I mean that's basically in

926
00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:42.559
<v Speaker 1>my opinion, that's kind of what's going on there. They

927
00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:45.679
<v Speaker 1>just like they don't understand that, Like they're like, oh,

928
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:49.480
<v Speaker 1>it's you worship Hitler. It's like no, no, I mean

929
00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:53.159
<v Speaker 1>some small number of guys have kind of an unhealthy fascination.

930
00:55:53.239 --> 00:55:55.039
<v Speaker 1>But that's not really that common. It's more that we

931
00:55:55.159 --> 00:55:59.679
<v Speaker 1>just you know, aren't holding him up as like, you know,

932
00:55:59.800 --> 00:56:03.599
<v Speaker 1>this centerpiece of our fucking universe, right, and because of that,

933
00:56:03.719 --> 00:56:05.800
<v Speaker 1>we can make jokes about him and about everything else.

934
00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:09.280
<v Speaker 1>And that's I think actually like that actually scares them

935
00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:12.400
<v Speaker 1>more than like, you know, being an unironic nat sock,

936
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:15.159
<v Speaker 1>because like, if you just don't take the things as

937
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:19.119
<v Speaker 1>sacred that they hold sacred, that's a dangerous thing.

938
00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, and you see this in the whole sort of

939
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:27.800
<v Speaker 2>dialogue around quote unquote media literacy, you know, the idea

940
00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:30.559
<v Speaker 2>that there is exactly one way to interpret any film.

941
00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:33.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, recently with the conclusion of The Boys, where

942
00:56:33.679 --> 00:56:36.480
<v Speaker 2>you know, this character Homelander, who's kind of memes into

943
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:42.199
<v Speaker 2>being a right wing symbol, was uh, kind of garishly humiliated.

944
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:44.119
<v Speaker 2>It was really embarrassing for.

945
00:56:44.199 --> 00:56:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Them took his powers away and then tortured him to

946
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:52.480
<v Speaker 1>death or something. I ye, like two seasons of the

947
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:55.119
<v Speaker 1>Boys and then sort of lost interest.

948
00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and look, I don't pretend you have watched it.

949
00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:00.280
<v Speaker 2>I am enough of a zoomer that I don't really

950
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:06.719
<v Speaker 2>watch television. But point is the that that what came

951
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:10.119
<v Speaker 2>before that, Right, Why are a lot of young guys

952
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:14.559
<v Speaker 2>identifying with the villain now? Part of it is that

953
00:57:14.679 --> 00:57:18.679
<v Speaker 2>sort of vice signaling, Right, Darth Vader has always been cool.

954
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:20.599
<v Speaker 2>You know, there are a whole lot of bikers who

955
00:57:20.679 --> 00:57:24.840
<v Speaker 2>have you know, mid century German symbology who don't seem

956
00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:28.679
<v Speaker 2>to particularly know a whole lot about the painter himself,

957
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:31.679
<v Speaker 2>right as the symbol as a rebel.

958
00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Remembered like ten probably over ten years ago. Now, there's

959
00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:39.280
<v Speaker 1>like this like map of this I forget, like what

960
00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:41.599
<v Speaker 1>the game was. It was a Star Wars game, and

961
00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:46.559
<v Speaker 1>you could play either as the Empire or as the

962
00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:51.199
<v Speaker 1>rebellion and they and it was a map of the

963
00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:54.800
<v Speaker 1>world according to like with countries like color coded according

964
00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:57.800
<v Speaker 1>to like which side they played and like how likely

965
00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:00.719
<v Speaker 1>they were to play that side. It was pretty funny

966
00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:03.280
<v Speaker 1>because like the entire global South, we're all rebellion, and

967
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:06.960
<v Speaker 1>then like the entire global North, we're all Empire. Yeah.

968
00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:09.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, and I think a big part of that, at

969
00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:12.480
<v Speaker 2>least for guys like us, is that, like, to be honest,

970
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.800
<v Speaker 2>really the only way we are represented as the bad

971
00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:19.840
<v Speaker 2>guys and any time where you are confidently existing as

972
00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:22.000
<v Speaker 2>a man, you know, as a white guy, is displayed

973
00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:25.480
<v Speaker 2>as villains, and I think that many people.

974
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Unless there's one exception to that, at least in modern media,

975
00:58:29.119 --> 00:58:32.320
<v Speaker 1>which is which is the sort of middle aged, older

976
00:58:32.840 --> 00:58:37.840
<v Speaker 1>white guy who is using his influence and abilities to

977
00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:42.840
<v Speaker 1>protect and to protect the younger diversity and sort of like,

978
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:47.199
<v Speaker 1>you know, hand over to them the world essentially, like

979
00:58:47.320 --> 00:58:50.000
<v Speaker 1>you see that trope brought out every now and then.

980
00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:53.639
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, but what I'm but I think that, you know,

981
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:56.000
<v Speaker 2>the reason that you know so many of the right

982
00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:58.920
<v Speaker 2>wing symbols or villains is that it's sort of accepting

983
00:58:58.960 --> 00:59:02.079
<v Speaker 2>that role, like, yeah, I am the villain in your story.

984
00:59:02.880 --> 00:59:06.800
<v Speaker 2>We are are mutually incompatible here, so you hoist the

985
00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:11.519
<v Speaker 2>black flag and you can tell you're right one hundred

986
00:59:11.519 --> 00:59:14.639
<v Speaker 2>percent that that makes them very uncomfortable. This whole discussion

987
00:59:14.639 --> 00:59:17.239
<v Speaker 2>about media literacy is the idea that, oh, you're stupid

988
00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:19.719
<v Speaker 2>for behaving that way. It's like, oh, well, what happened

989
00:59:19.719 --> 00:59:20.519
<v Speaker 2>to death of the author?

990
00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Guys?

991
00:59:20.920 --> 00:59:22.719
<v Speaker 2>You know, I thought we could reinterpret things and.

992
00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:25.079
<v Speaker 1>We ever, I don't. I don't know if you ever

993
00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:27.679
<v Speaker 1>talked about Starship Troopers that's come up on.

994
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:29.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh we should.

995
00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Actually this is because I last year I played my

996
00:59:36.079 --> 00:59:41.800
<v Speaker 1>part in reviving the perennial Starship Troopers discourse, and I

997
00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:43.639
<v Speaker 1>and I and I wrote like a pretty long essay

998
00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:46.760
<v Speaker 1>about this, which I think, you know, you and your

999
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:49.360
<v Speaker 1>readers might enjoy it because, like I opened the first

1000
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:51.760
<v Speaker 1>the essay, the first like few pages of it are

1001
00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:59.920
<v Speaker 1>my take on what a good opening to a starsh

1002
01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:03.199
<v Speaker 1>Troopers movie. That was like that was actually trying to

1003
01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:08.199
<v Speaker 1>do like the original book, well, like how that would look.

1004
01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:11.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's kind of like like scene by scene,

1005
01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:14.599
<v Speaker 1>but like the sort of you know, philosophical point I

1006
01:00:14.679 --> 01:00:17.679
<v Speaker 1>was trying to make. There was that like the media

1007
01:00:17.760 --> 01:00:22.159
<v Speaker 1>literacy people. First of all, like you know, there's the

1008
01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:26.519
<v Speaker 1>fact that Verhoven was not practicing media literacy himself, because

1009
01:00:27.239 --> 01:00:29.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, obviously he tried to invert the meaning of

1010
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:37.760
<v Speaker 1>the original of Heinleine's original work. But then if you

1011
01:00:37.880 --> 01:00:46.039
<v Speaker 1>consider each layer of media, you know, there's the book

1012
01:00:46.320 --> 01:00:48.559
<v Speaker 1>that has like a certain pretty obvious meaning. I mean,

1013
01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:51.840
<v Speaker 1>it's quite didactic. It's hard to misinterpret the Starship Troopers.

1014
01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:56.440
<v Speaker 1>And then there's the movie which sort of flips that meaning,

1015
01:00:56.760 --> 01:00:58.880
<v Speaker 1>tries to flip that meaning on its head, but it's

1016
01:00:58.880 --> 01:01:00.760
<v Speaker 1>so hamd fisted about it, and actually just you know,

1017
01:01:03.320 --> 01:01:06.159
<v Speaker 1>but then after the movie came out, you have the

1018
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:09.000
<v Speaker 1>mean layer that gets gets put on top of that

1019
01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:13.039
<v Speaker 1>as a new layer of media, and that actually has

1020
01:01:13.079 --> 01:01:15.840
<v Speaker 1>to be interpreted sort of on its own as something

1021
01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:19.360
<v Speaker 1>somewhat independent from the movie itself, because there's meaning there

1022
01:01:19.880 --> 01:01:23.840
<v Speaker 1>that's like not in the movie, and then that was

1023
01:01:24.039 --> 01:01:27.639
<v Speaker 1>used to like reinvert the movie back to like its

1024
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:31.000
<v Speaker 1>original the original meaning of the book.

1025
01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:34.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, I will have to have you back on because

1026
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm actually and this is horrible podcasting because I have

1027
01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:40.119
<v Speaker 2>no idea when this episode will come out. But in

1028
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:42.039
<v Speaker 2>the next day or two I'm actually going to be

1029
01:01:42.159 --> 01:01:45.920
<v Speaker 2>recording an episode on the Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

1030
01:01:46.519 --> 01:01:49.320
<v Speaker 2>And I've been sort of thinking, oh, it would be

1031
01:01:49.360 --> 01:01:52.760
<v Speaker 2>a ton of fun to do Hindlin's three works of

1032
01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:58.039
<v Speaker 2>speculative political fiction and sort of an unofficial series right

1033
01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:01.360
<v Speaker 2>to hit all of them. And I've already honest.

1034
01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:05.360
<v Speaker 1>What are you considering for your third work, Stranger and

1035
01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:05.960
<v Speaker 1>a Strange Land.

1036
01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Stranger in a Strange Land just is sort of

1037
01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:14.320
<v Speaker 2>to round it out, But what might be fun, Josh, I've.

1038
01:02:14.199 --> 01:02:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Already the civic fascism, the anarcho libertarianism, and the hippie

1039
01:02:20.199 --> 01:02:21.519
<v Speaker 1>liberalism basically.

1040
01:02:22.039 --> 01:02:23.360
<v Speaker 2>Well and two things.

1041
01:02:23.679 --> 01:02:23.880
<v Speaker 1>One.

1042
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:27.119
<v Speaker 2>I've read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress before and

1043
01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:31.519
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed it, but it's been years, so going back through it. One,

1044
01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:35.199
<v Speaker 2>the libertarians are never beating the allegations because there is

1045
01:02:35.239 --> 01:02:38.239
<v Speaker 2>a fifteen minute digression in that book about how the

1046
01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:39.639
<v Speaker 2>age of consent is stupid.

1047
01:02:40.360 --> 01:02:44.119
<v Speaker 1>Dude, that's not even like you think that's bad. I

1048
01:02:44.159 --> 01:02:45.840
<v Speaker 1>don't know if you how much Highline have you read.

1049
01:02:46.840 --> 01:02:48.800
<v Speaker 2>I've read that and Starship Troopers.

1050
01:02:49.320 --> 01:02:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you've read, like those are kind of somewhat

1051
01:02:51.920 --> 01:02:56.519
<v Speaker 1>earlier works. So if you read his works from the

1052
01:02:56.639 --> 01:03:00.239
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventies, where by that point he become sort of

1053
01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:04.880
<v Speaker 1>a literary star, and the science fiction firmament and editors

1054
01:03:04.920 --> 01:03:07.199
<v Speaker 1>were scared of him, so his books started to have,

1055
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:13.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, very self indulgent, so that he got I

1056
01:03:13.920 --> 01:03:19.000
<v Speaker 1>think worse than Anne Rands for like, like I remember,

1057
01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:24.800
<v Speaker 1>I think it was like Friday, which is nominally a

1058
01:03:24.920 --> 01:03:31.480
<v Speaker 1>book about this genetically engineered super assassin or something, but

1059
01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:39.480
<v Speaker 1>somewhere in there there's like this conversation about sex between

1060
01:03:40.599 --> 01:03:44.880
<v Speaker 1>the genetically engineered superassassin and like I don't know, some

1061
01:03:45.320 --> 01:03:49.719
<v Speaker 1>some guy that goes on for like one hundred pages,

1062
01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:53.320
<v Speaker 1>like it's it's just it's interminable. Like it's basically it's

1063
01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:56.199
<v Speaker 1>like hindline, like laying all of his fetishes there, you know,

1064
01:03:56.360 --> 01:03:59.880
<v Speaker 1>like it's just like come on, man, and he did

1065
01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:03.079
<v Speaker 1>a lot in his later books. I mean, he's another one.

1066
01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:07.159
<v Speaker 1>Basically the entire thing is like a work of fetish fiction.

1067
01:04:07.320 --> 01:04:14.039
<v Speaker 1>It's I Shall Fear No Evil, which is about a

1068
01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:18.760
<v Speaker 1>billionaire having like an eight like an aged billionaire like

1069
01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:22.199
<v Speaker 1>on his deathbed who has his brain transplanted into the

1070
01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:24.400
<v Speaker 1>body of his hot secretary.

1071
01:04:26.480 --> 01:04:27.840
<v Speaker 2>And it's just lovely.

1072
01:04:31.719 --> 01:04:35.239
<v Speaker 1>And then like you know her, like her her ghost

1073
01:04:35.400 --> 01:04:38.079
<v Speaker 1>or whatever like remains inside the body and starts like

1074
01:04:38.199 --> 01:04:41.559
<v Speaker 1>talking to him. So she's like inside him, and it's yeah,

1075
01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:47.320
<v Speaker 1>it's a and he's he's fully enjoying being a young woman.

1076
01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:48.159
<v Speaker 1>I'll just put it that way.

1077
01:04:50.159 --> 01:04:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Less you doubt that that some people just should not

1078
01:04:53.719 --> 01:04:56.400
<v Speaker 2>have been allowed to escape middle school without being shoved

1079
01:04:56.400 --> 01:04:59.199
<v Speaker 2>in a locker and give it wedgies. Uh, this is

1080
01:04:59.239 --> 01:05:02.039
<v Speaker 2>what happens when you let people do whatever they want.

1081
01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:08.400
<v Speaker 2>I say, like I actually enjoy hindlines like kind of

1082
01:05:08.440 --> 01:05:12.039
<v Speaker 2>speculative political faction. It's interesting and not looking to spoil

1083
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:15.639
<v Speaker 2>the discussion on spoil the discussion on the Moon is

1084
01:05:15.639 --> 01:05:19.400
<v Speaker 2>a harsh Mistress. I'm I'm almost done with it, but

1085
01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:19.760
<v Speaker 2>it is.

1086
01:05:20.039 --> 01:05:20.280
<v Speaker 1>It is.

1087
01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:25.679
<v Speaker 2>I will say this, It is interesting the constraints required

1088
01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:29.840
<v Speaker 2>to make a narco libertarianism feasible, and I will leave

1089
01:05:29.880 --> 01:05:30.199
<v Speaker 2>that there.

1090
01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:35.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean also, Moon is a harsh mistress?

1091
01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Is the original polycool?

1092
01:05:37.599 --> 01:05:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, no, it It gets a little freaky. And

1093
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:43.360
<v Speaker 2>one of the other parts where you sort of roll

1094
01:05:43.400 --> 01:05:46.599
<v Speaker 2>your eyes is damn, I'm supposed to be doing this

1095
01:05:46.599 --> 01:05:48.039
<v Speaker 2>another day, but you're just gonna go for it.

1096
01:05:48.519 --> 01:05:48.559
<v Speaker 1>Is.

1097
01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:52.400
<v Speaker 2>There's this very heavy handed moment where our main character

1098
01:05:52.599 --> 01:05:57.280
<v Speaker 2>explains to these sort of backward country yokels his polycool situation,

1099
01:05:58.400 --> 01:06:02.159
<v Speaker 2>and then he's he's thrown in jail for bigamy, and

1100
01:06:02.679 --> 01:06:06.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, of course he's morally outraged, and apparently both

1101
01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:11.960
<v Speaker 2>the Moon and Earth unite in condemning the backwards rednecks

1102
01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:15.400
<v Speaker 2>of Kentucky who said, hey man, it's kind of weird

1103
01:06:15.559 --> 01:06:18.320
<v Speaker 2>to have like an eight person pollicule where one of

1104
01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:23.199
<v Speaker 2>your wives is fifteen, And yeah, it's again, man, every

1105
01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:27.719
<v Speaker 2>stereotype about libertarians is completely and totally true. It's all

1106
01:06:27.800 --> 01:06:33.840
<v Speaker 2>based in fact. Well, John, this has been a ton

1107
01:06:33.920 --> 01:06:37.599
<v Speaker 2>of fun. Man, I enjoyed this. I've said this a

1108
01:06:37.679 --> 01:06:40.760
<v Speaker 2>couple times, but you are one of an elite few

1109
01:06:40.840 --> 01:06:44.639
<v Speaker 2>people on substack where I read your articles religiously. They're

1110
01:06:44.719 --> 01:06:47.639
<v Speaker 2>quite good. Although I will say I was a little

1111
01:06:47.679 --> 01:06:50.400
<v Speaker 2>behind on this one, so I didn't catch it when

1112
01:06:50.440 --> 01:06:52.920
<v Speaker 2>it first came out, but one of my good friends

1113
01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:55.280
<v Speaker 2>sent it to me, so at least in my social circle.

1114
01:06:55.360 --> 01:06:58.800
<v Speaker 2>You're sort of a literary celebrity. But where can people

1115
01:06:58.840 --> 01:06:59.360
<v Speaker 2>find you, man?

1116
01:07:00.400 --> 01:07:03.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean substack, barsoom dot substack dot com, postcards from

1117
01:07:03.960 --> 01:07:07.760
<v Speaker 1>barsoom and uh that's you know when I when I

1118
01:07:07.880 --> 01:07:11.280
<v Speaker 1>publish for every week or two, I try to get

1119
01:07:11.320 --> 01:07:14.960
<v Speaker 1>something out, and you can find me pretty much every day, uh,

1120
01:07:15.880 --> 01:07:18.880
<v Speaker 1>coal posting on x You know I've I've been on

1121
01:07:19.559 --> 01:07:26.760
<v Speaker 1>on there all day doing the the migrant rape gangs reports,

1122
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:29.119
<v Speaker 1>participating in that.

1123
01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've got I'm gonna have to do an episode

1124
01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:34.880
<v Speaker 2>about it, but I'm not even trying to.

1125
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:37.360
<v Speaker 1>I think on this one, I just can't read it

1126
01:07:37.960 --> 01:07:44.440
<v Speaker 1>as I've been reading it all day and it's it's

1127
01:07:44.519 --> 01:07:47.400
<v Speaker 1>like an info hazard, man, Like it leaves scars on

1128
01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:49.199
<v Speaker 1>your soul reading some of that stuff.

1129
01:07:50.360 --> 01:07:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, my my reaction uh at probably much to

1130
01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:58.440
<v Speaker 2>the distress of my legal counsel, is uh. There are

1131
01:07:58.519 --> 01:08:03.159
<v Speaker 2>traditional British solutions for problems like these. William Wallace didn't

1132
01:08:03.199 --> 01:08:05.760
<v Speaker 2>do anything this bad and look what they did to him,

1133
01:08:06.400 --> 01:08:10.280
<v Speaker 2>exactly before I further incriminate myself, John, this was a

1134
01:08:10.360 --> 01:08:13.000
<v Speaker 2>ton of fun and everyone at know keep your head

1135
01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:14.199
<v Speaker 2>up like it last forever.

1136
01:08:14.400 --> 01:08:15.199
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for having me on