WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:07.519 Ready, get ready for. 2 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:16.960 September seventh, twenty twenty five, allegedly according to that thing 3 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:19.760 we call a calendar, this the o'celly effect. Of course, 4 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:21.839 you know that because you found it, and we are 5 00:00:21.839 --> 00:00:24.559 not as easy to find as we used to be. Anyway, 6 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:27.399 it's Sunday, and I don't usually do live broadcasts on 7 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:31.039 a Sunday, but this is one, and I think it 8 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:35.320 is absolutely necessary to get to why. I've got kind 9 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:37.679 of an unusual guest for me. I haven't had him 10 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:40.679 on before, and even though he's been on a few 11 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:44.439 other podcasts. Look, I don't think the world knows about 12 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.280 him as much as they need to. How about that? 13 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:51.439 Why do I say this? Paul Abbott is someone who 14 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:56.840 has studied the JFK assassination aspects let's say, connected to 15 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:02.719 the assassination in detail. And if you decide you want 16 00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:05.519 to follow up, in the show notes, you'll find links 17 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:10.719 to you know, the death Okay, ready for this Death 18 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:17.040 of Justice? All right? And there's a podcast, there is 19 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:22.519 a substack. There is guess what a website okay, which 20 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:26.079 looks like it says Deathojustice dot com, which I kind 21 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:29.359 of appreciate. Right there, that's an interesting short But anyway, 22 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.239 there'll be links in the show notes you'll be able 23 00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:35.799 to follow through. And also, I guess I'll get to 24 00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:37.599 this at the beginning of the show, just so I 25 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:42.400 don't forget. Later November in Dallas the Lancer Conference, Paul 26 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:47.200 Abbott will be there in person and presenting, and I'm 27 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:50.120 looking forward to his presentation. Now. Of course, if you 28 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:52.959 go to Assassination Conference dot com, you can sign up 29 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:56.480 if you use the discount code Ocelle ten. Whether you're 30 00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:59.599 going to be there in person or online, you can 31 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:03.200 attend off. And if you're going there in person, it's 32 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:05.840 going to be at the Fairmont Dallas Hotel, which is 33 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:10.680 at seventeen seventeen North ackerd Street, Dallas, Texas, which is 34 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:14.080 conveniently located near the Plaza. So anyway, now that I've 35 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:17.039 gotten all the ads and all of the references and 36 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:19.560 told you go look at the show notes because most 37 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:22.280 of you will catch the podcast. Anyway, go look at 38 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:25.400 the show notes and you can follow up on Paul's work. 39 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:29.800 Let's get to the conversation. So first of all, I 40 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:31.800 know you're on the other side of the world, so 41 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:35.159 to speak, and it's probably a different day than it 42 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:38.240 is here. See for me, it's Sunday the seventh. I 43 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:39.800 don't know, is it still Sunday there? 44 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:46.680 No, Chuck, it's Monday morning. So yeah, it's the term 45 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:49.520 difference is always is an interesting thing to. 46 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.199 Ne Goshat absolutely so, almost speaking to us from the future. 47 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.840 I'm joking, but literally speaking. You know, he'd have to 48 00:02:56.919 --> 00:02:59.039 mark his calendar and his clock a certain way and 49 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:02.240 it would be Monday or so. All right, anyway, enough 50 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:04.400 of the jokes and enough of all that, let's get 51 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:09.360 to the serious Australian question, which is this. Look, it's 52 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:12.879 an American president, it's an assassination. I can make all 53 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:15.639 kinds of claims about how that directly affected my life, 54 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:19.800 and I do. In fact, that's my motivation. To me. 55 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:22.400 It's the Vietnam War and what resulted there and what 56 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:26.240 wouldn't have happened if someone didn't score a head shot 57 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:34.199 in Deialy Plaza. But that's my oversimplified motivation. What in 58 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:39.319 the world brings an Australian guy to become interested in well, 59 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:44.319 American history, the JFK assassination and the very particular lane 60 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.800 that you've chosen here. Could you give us a brief 61 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:48.759 idea of how it is you decided to do that 62 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:50.879 and why. 63 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.159 Sure, it really started when I watched The Men Who 64 00:03:54.280 --> 00:04:00.159 Killed Kennedy THEHS box set. Well, I had some on 65 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:02.879 holiday with family and had a fair bit of time 66 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:07.319 to spare side. I ripped through that documentary in a 67 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:11.439 couple of days and was just absolutely captivated by the 68 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:14.719 case of a head of state. Even back then I 69 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:18.360 was eleven years old, a president being killed in broad daylight, 70 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:20.720 so brutally and in front of so many people, and 71 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:23.199 it was filmed, and it was still a mystery that 72 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:27.360 just captivated me. And from there I read Garrison's on 73 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:31.199 the trilogy Assassins because I watched JFK the movie, and 74 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:36.040 really it was just a mystery that I've just been 75 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:40.800 absolutely fascinated by ever since, to be honest, and there 76 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:44.360 was only recently that I came to came to I 77 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:48.639 guess contribute to the broader research community, But in terms 78 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:52.959 of being an Australian, I think I think people need 79 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:56.199 to know or I understand a little bit more the 80 00:04:56.199 --> 00:05:01.680 President Kennedy's assassination was a world changing event. Australia is 81 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:06.720 a country, you know, where we are very closely aligned 82 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:10.120 with the you know, with the American experience, if you 83 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:15.199 like our our countries getting along really well. We followed 84 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:20.360 the US escalation into Vietnam as well. Australian troops went 85 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:23.879 into Vietnam so early on. You know that that made 86 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:28.639 me wonder if President Kennedy hadn't been killed, would Australia 87 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:33.319 have become so involved, even more involved in the Vietnam 88 00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:37.360 War as well? And that that impact on history I 89 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:42.160 think has helped me to sty incredibly fascinated by Kennedy's 90 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:45.600 assassination because the world literally changed in that moment, and 91 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:49.639 you know, not not just if you're an American, but 92 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:52.480 all over the world. You know, many people that have 93 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:56.720 written fantastic articles about that because it is true. 94 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:05.439 Interesting. Just a question here, real quick. Which version of 95 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:09.040 the men who killed Kennedy did you see? Because at 96 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:11.680 a certain point there was only three parts, then there 97 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:15.279 were six, then there were nine, and nowadays there are 98 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.959 six depending on what you get. So did you see 99 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:22.079 the whole thing or did you see just part of it? 100 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:25.079 And what year was that? Because VHS it would have 101 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:28.480 had to have been after nineteen eighty eight, but it 102 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:31.439 could have been anywhere. I mean, there was a resurgence 103 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:34.600 of this stuff. Say in two thousand and three at 104 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:37.399 the fortieth anniversary, there was a resurgence of interest in 105 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.319 the men who killed Kennedy and that may have indeed 106 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:42.120 been the time period. So what time period did you 107 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.399 actually engage in that and get fascinated by it? 108 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:50.120 Yeah, ironically enough, it was in dight Pool Levonte ninety 109 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:53.720 four that I watched that the HSS series, And of 110 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:56.399 course that's not related, but it happened to be in 111 00:06:56.439 --> 00:07:00.480 the time that Jackline Kennedy pasted. Why that I probably 112 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:02.800 knew it at the time, but yeah, it was. It 113 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:06.000 was the six part series. I remember that distinctly. So 114 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:11.399 when all the extra extra episodes came out about the 115 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:14.120 Johnson angle, until it all, I kind of watched it 116 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:16.639 with a little bit of interest, but by then it 117 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:18.959 was a little bit more well read on the topic 118 00:07:19.040 --> 00:07:22.160 and kind of just watched it out of curiosity to 119 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:26.839 see if see if it's added to what I thought 120 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:28.959 then Still, you know, a lot of the things in 121 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:33.800 that series, you know, still held up pretty well. I'm 122 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:37.680 not I'm not so sold on the Gordon Island came 123 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:40.800 claim after all this time, But other than that, I 124 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.879 think it's a very interesting series to still watch after 125 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:45.560 all this time. 126 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:48.560 Well, yeah, some things fell apart, you know, from The 127 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:51.240 Men Who Killed Kennedy. And I think that some of 128 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:53.480 that is due to the fact that we have better technology, 129 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:58.319 We've had more access to uh you know, generally speaking, 130 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:01.839 more access to the evidence. One way or another. People 131 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:06.439 have actually seen the Subruder film a lot more. Almost 132 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:09.439 anybody in the world, if they've watched a documentary that 133 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:13.560 was made in the past sixty years, has seen the 134 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:18.319 Mormon photograph at least in passing that wasn't necessarily true. 135 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:21.759 And even Gary Mack at that time was you know, 136 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:24.600 sort of a conspiracy advocate when it was first filmed. 137 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:28.439 And then he becomes the head of the Sixth Floor Museum. 138 00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:32.120 There's a whole change there. The Sixth Floor Museum didn't 139 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:35.320 exist when The Men Who Killed Kennedy was first filmed, 140 00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:38.360 et cetera. I mean, there's a lot to it to 141 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:41.360 put it in its place in history and to say, 142 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:43.279 like you know today, I mean back then, when I 143 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:46.759 first saw it, I thought Badgeman was a very interesting thing. 144 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:54.000 Today I cannot comprehend how it is physically possible to 145 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:57.919 create Badgeman legitimately and have it be anything other than 146 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:03.360 a coincidental collection of different pieces of these silver chemicals 147 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:07.799 that come together, because that was a polaroid photograph that 148 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:11.240 Mary Mormon took. Mary Mormon Kramer, you know who I've 149 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:15.039 spoken to also on the show. And that has changed 150 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:17.879 over time. A lot of things did, and indeed I've 151 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:20.639 even claimed that. Look, when I was younger, I thought 152 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:25.919 the whole French gunman scenario kind of worked, you know, 153 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:29.559 maybe that made sense, et cetera. Some things have fallen 154 00:09:29.600 --> 00:09:35.320 apart over time. The general sort of you know, attitude 155 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:39.480 of it prevails, but does the exact evidence. I mean, 156 00:09:39.480 --> 00:09:41.240 even the guy who's sitting there, you know, looking at 157 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:45.120 these blocky pixels with the best computer technology available in 158 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:48.639 the eighties, you know, clearly we have much better ways 159 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:53.480 to analyze photographs now, digitally and physically. I mean a 160 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:56.320 lot of things have evolved since then. Let's say, yes, 161 00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:59.120 and those last three, of course, you know, you got 162 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:02.320 the Johnson things, the last one, the men who killed Kennedy, 163 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:05.600 the man who killed Kennedy Johnson. You have the Judy 164 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:07.799 Baker episode, and then you have that other one, which 165 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:09.879 is just I don't know what to call it, but 166 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:12.080 it's just kind of out there, some of the more 167 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:15.879 out there things. And yes, indeed all of it has 168 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:20.039 kind of been tested over time, changed a bit, et cetera. 169 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:22.039 But it doesn't mean that it's a bad point for 170 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.440 you to begin. Like I said, at one point, I 171 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:28.279 thought the French gunman scenario was pretty good, you know, 172 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:30.919 the idea of these French assassins, and maybe that was 173 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:35.600 the real reason for it. And anyway, but you know, 174 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:39.080 we learn over time. Beverly Oliver is featured in those 175 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:41.240 things too, and today I would tell you that I 176 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:44.720 don't think she's a legitimate witness, although at one time 177 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:48.159 I might have thought she was. Things have changed, just 178 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:50.799 saying as we have to learn, and we've been given 179 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:55.360 more access and five million, you know, documents now added. 180 00:10:55.960 --> 00:11:00.919 So that's where you began. Now, why is it that 181 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:04.559 you decided to write the book and begin this journey 182 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:06.879 and then tell us a little bit about what it is. 183 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:09.600 You know, you could mix right in there the sort 184 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:13.120 of focus you have, which I find fascinating because it 185 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:17.639 is one of the most underappreciated focuses I think in 186 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:20.279 the case, which is, let's take a look at what 187 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:25.440 we know happened, the procedures, the treatment of the alleged 188 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:29.440 assassin who was never convicted but was convicted in the 189 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:33.639 public's mind, and et cetera, et cetera. You know, you 190 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:35.759 look at the process by which he was handled and 191 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:37.919 things like that. But but I want you to explain 192 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:41.519 how did you go from being inspired to choosing to 193 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:44.919 focus on that and sort of how it You know, 194 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:48.200 the book and the website and the podcast and all 195 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:50.960 of it. You know, why still why are we in 196 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:52.840 that area? And tell us about it? 197 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:57.679 Well, it really started when I I'm not sure if 198 00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:01.320 you've heard of it, Chuck, but I of the Garrison Folders. 199 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:06.279 Uh no. I put together an indix for the surviving 200 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:10.480 Garrison Folders, and it was a toss that took I 201 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:15.679 ten months. That literally was just made physically scanning. I've 202 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:18.679 pages throughout the Garrison folders foot. 203 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:30.960 Oh, Paul, where'd you go? I'm not sure if you 204 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:42.679 can hear me. Hmm, all right, I'm going to take 205 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:44.720 a quick break here on the podcast and see if 206 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:48.000 we can't straighten out whatever's going on here, because suddenly 207 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:50.240 I don't hear Paul, and I don't know if he 208 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:52.960 hears me. So I want to get into that question 209 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:56.000 and ask about where it does he went and why? 210 00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:58.559 As this show continues, stick. 211 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:00.879 One wont do want to in a comedy, Alan Bonnet, 212 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:02.519 This is the Kadia. 213 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.720 Do you like history? Real history that you were never 214 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:10.279 taught in schools? Why the Vietnam War Nuclear Bombs in 215 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:14.440 nation Building in Southeast Asia by author Mike Swanson, with 216 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:18.919 new documentation never seen before that'll open your eyes to 217 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:22.519 events that led up to this. Why the Vietnam War 218 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:27.519 Nuclear Bombs in Nation Building in Southeast Asia nineteen forty 219 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:31.679 five through nineteen sixty one. Get your copy today at 220 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:36.960 Amazon dot com. Why the Vietnam War by author Mike Swanson. 221 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.320 The War State by Michael Swanson explains the great national 222 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:43.360 transformation that took place and put the Kennedy presidency in 223 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:46.840 the context of the times, and reveals never before published 224 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.559 information about the Cuban missile crisis. President Kennedy would not 225 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:53.200 have been assassinated if he had been president two hundred 226 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:56.639 years ago. His assassination took place in the context of 227 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:59.600 the Cold War and the rise of the national security state. 228 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:02.080 Before we were World War II, the United States was 229 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:05.320 a continental republic. In the decade that followed it became 230 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.200 an imperial superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay not only 231 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:11.840 wanted to invade Cuba, but knew that there were short 232 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:14.919 range missiles on the island arn't with nuclear warheads that 233 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.759 they could not destroy because they were on mobile launchers. 234 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.519 Their invasion could have led to a Third World War, 235 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.879 and they wanted to go to war anyway. The War 236 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:27.279 State by Michael Swanson reveals why and will show you 237 00:15:27.320 --> 00:15:30.440 what President Kennedy was up against. For more information, the 238 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:32.360 Warstate dot com. 239 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:36.519 In Denial, The Secret Wars with Air Strikes and Tanks 240 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:41.240 by Larry Hancock. Secret wars became a staple of US 241 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:45.399 covert operations and are still happening today. Larry Hancock's book 242 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:48.840 In Denial rips the cover off many of them, using 243 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:51.639 new files. It exposes things about the Bay of Pigs 244 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:54.679 that no one has ever written about before. It shows 245 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.559 why it really failed and why the United States. 246 00:15:57.159 --> 00:15:58.759 Did not learn from it. 247 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:01.919 It also shows why the actries today are doing secret 248 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:05.200 operations with more success. This is the book that puts 249 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:09.279 what some want to deny into the light. In Denial, 250 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:15.799 Secret Wars with air Strikes and Tanks Larryhncock. For more information, 251 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.200 go to Larry hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up your 252 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:22.799 copy of In Denial at Amazon dot com in digital 253 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:23.840 or physical force. 254 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.400 Ye, I'm doing down about once again the day about 255 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:39.319 I've been luck. 256 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.839 No, no, I just got the time that's gone. 257 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:43.279 I don't use one time. 258 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:45.599 I don't get it out the blue burried on. 259 00:17:53.440 --> 00:18:21.400 No, no, no, no, go ahead call it. And this 260 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:24.440 isn't the truth about the Jayfay assassination. Right, Well, what 261 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:26.200 do you want to know Judy Baker's. 262 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:28.920 Wild claim Oswald girlfriend if he knew Ruby and Barry 263 00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:30.000 answer weapons? 264 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:32.359 Really, I imagine I could claim I have four wheels. 265 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:33.480 It doesn't make me a wagon. 266 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.400 But okay, Oswald's was on the building and I'm trying 267 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:37.920 to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. 268 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.880 Come on now, has a. 269 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:41.480 Real effort on the day of hay assassination. Book into 270 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:41.920 her claim. 271 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:46.119 Go to Amazon dot com enter Judith Baker in her 272 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:48.960 own words. You'll get the results for a digital copy 273 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:52.480 of a book where Walt Brown utilizes her own words 274 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.400 and the known evidence in the case to get at 275 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:59.039 well a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith 276 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:02.319 Barry Baker in her own words from the author himself, 277 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:05.599 signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown at 278 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:08.400 k I A S J F K at A O 279 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:11.039 L dot com. It's a fun book and it actually 280 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:15.960 dissects the many many fantastic claims. Judith very Baker in 281 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:17.319 her own words. 282 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:23.160 Dot Com Radio Network, Chili dot com. 283 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:25.559 This is James CORBNT Corp Report dot com and you're 284 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:31.119 listening to the affected Olly dot Com Relations conversation. 285 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:34.839 What the effect. 286 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:44.519 For a relations conversations. 287 00:19:45.519 --> 00:20:08.759 Show, James effect relation devastation, relations the effect revelation through conversation. 288 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:16.480 Ready for. 289 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:26.319 A brief interruption, because computers have minds of their own anyway. 290 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:30.680 Uh so I'm talking to the man behind, all right, 291 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:32.599 once again, the man behind. 292 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:33.079 Uh. 293 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.799 Death to Justice The Shooting of Lee Harvey Oswald, which 294 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.759 is a podcast you can find on Apple and other 295 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:44.200 pod catcher devices out there of your choice. Obviously hopefully 296 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:46.519 it's spread all over the place, but if you haven't 297 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:49.240 found it, Death to Justice The Shooting of Lee Harvey 298 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:53.160 Oswald by Paul Abbott. It's a true crime podcast and 299 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:56.200 all that, and uh interesting, it's got the black white 300 00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:59.200 red you know logo and all that kind of stuff. Uh, 301 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.319 and he calls it the book cast, So I guess 302 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:05.359 it's in support of the book. I like the idea. 303 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:07.759 I have always said every book should have this now, 304 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:12.759 but not everybody agrees with my ideas. Anyhow, we were 305 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.799 just starting to discuss how you transition from you know, 306 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:21.599 getting interested, starting to read, and you read, you know, 307 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:25.079 Jim Garrison's book. You saw JFK. You saw the Men 308 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:29.640 of Kill Kennedy, Okay, and then you started organizing the folders. 309 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:32.720 Maybe you could give a description about that again, you 310 00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:35.440 know what folders? Are we talking about? The files? The 311 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:40.519 transcripts from the grand jury? You know, were you responsible 312 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.000 for indexing those, et cetera. And then tell us about 313 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:47.519 how it ends up that you start writing about the 314 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:49.960 death of Lee Harvey Oswald, the shooting of him. Well, 315 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.880 not necessarily the death, but how about all the circumstances 316 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:57.319 that come together that end in his death. But maybe 317 00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:00.400 maybe that's a better description, but you'll you'll help me here, 318 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:03.079 so tell us about that transition once again. 319 00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.839 Yeap. So it was the Garrison folders that I got 320 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:12.079 my hands on. Lenosonic sends them out as a link, 321 00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:16.519 but they are publicly available and I had Paul Blow 322 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:19.880 derived a lot of information for articles that he was 323 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:23.400 writing at the time out of these Garrison folders, and 324 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:28.240 they are surviving documents from obviously former New Orleans District 325 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:32.400 Attorney Jim Garrison, who Kevin Coston played in JFKA, of course, 326 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:37.160 and I really just I was at the time, I 327 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:39.640 really didn't know too much about the New Orleans aspect, 328 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.400 you know, the summer of nineteen sixty three, So that's 329 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:44.480 kind of why I wanted to look through them. And 330 00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:46.640 as I was going through the folders, they were just 331 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.960 there was like I think I ended up counting there 332 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:54.599 were thirteen thousand pages in them. And what I started 333 00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:58.160 doing was really just scanning through each of these pages 334 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.119 to look for names and contact next. And as I 335 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:03.559 was doing that, I was putting them on a spreadsheet, 336 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:07.400 and the spreadsheet just kept getting longer and longer, and 337 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:10.920 each name with a little bit of context how it 338 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:15.480 which folder corresponded to and which page and everything like that. 339 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.799 So really it became a resource that I was I 340 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:22.680 was compiling for anyone, you know that I wanted to 341 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.240 find out a little bit more about Garrison and the 342 00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:29.039 work he did, not just in the sixties. But of 343 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:32.599 course as well, I'll probably know he never he never 344 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:38.440 stopped his interest in the there in any assassination case, 345 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:43.200 and he continued to collect in the third decade newsletters 346 00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:46.319 and articles and things like that, and then he went 347 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:49.960 into Scull and Bones and the Builderberg Group and John 348 00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:53.920 Lennon assassination Reagan and everything. Really, it's just it is 349 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:57.920 a fascinating resource. So I didn't go in in any 350 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:05.400 particular with any particular into Bolster Jim Garrison or detract 351 00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:08.359 from him. I just wanted to see how much he 352 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:11.119 collected and make it easy for other people to read through. 353 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:15.880 So yeah, index spreadsheet, it's about forty thousand lines deep, 354 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.079 but that's out there as well for people to use. 355 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:22.319 So really, when I was going through that exercise, there 356 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.759 was one particular folder in there Chuck called I think 357 00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:30.519 it was the Plans and Security for Lee Harvey Oswald's Transfer. 358 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.319 That's literally the name of the folder. And as I 359 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:37.720 was reading through it, it was basically almost know a 360 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:42.599 verbatim copy of the Dallas Police investigation into itself into 361 00:24:43.039 --> 00:24:46.759 obviously how they went about handling Oswald's transfer from Dallas 362 00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:50.839 City Hall to County jail over that weekend of November 363 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:55.440 twenty second, and what it consists of is a summary 364 00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:02.119 report by JW. Fritz, Captain Fritz, and literally statements so 365 00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:08.519 transcribes or transcripts of statements that witnesses to Oswold shooting made. 366 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:13.359 As well as that for Davits, there's even a copy 367 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:18.160 of an architecturally drawn map of the basement at the 368 00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:19.799 time of the shooting. I don't know if you've seen it, 369 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:22.880 but there's a lot of circles with numbers in them 370 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:27.279 that correspond to an index within the Dallas Police investigation 371 00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:31.279 detailing where witnesses were standing at the time Volsewolds shooting. 372 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:37.599 And I'm basically I looked back around to do this 373 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:41.039 fold after I'd done the index, because they were just 374 00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:43.799 even at the time, I was really starting to catch 375 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:49.039 a lot of contradictions between people's own statements. You know, 376 00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:53.480 what they said to Dallas Police on the twenty fourth 377 00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:57.000 of November and then said three or four days later 378 00:25:57.519 --> 00:25:59.079 changed or was completely different. 379 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:02.119 I can I pause you can? I pause you here 380 00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:05.759 real quickly because you know, when I first encountered the 381 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:09.480 shooting of Lee Rby Oswald, and I had videotapes back 382 00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:11.920 in the eighties and stuff. I didn't see it the 383 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:15.680 same way because I hadn't had certain life experiences. Now, 384 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:19.480 I have worked security, and I've worked bodyguard duty, and 385 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:22.240 i've worked bouncer duty. Okay, I know the blind guy 386 00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:25.480 doing that's kind of funny, but I was useful in 387 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:25.920 a team. 388 00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:28.160 You know. 389 00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:30.680 I looked at it the first time and it was like, Wow, 390 00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.079 this is crazy. This guy got shot on live TV. 391 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.440 Now that's my teenage version of looking at it. When 392 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:39.839 I looked at it later, though, something that jumped out 393 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:42.200 at me. And I've always wondered, you know, and I've 394 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:44.119 studied some of the stuff you're talking about. I know 395 00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:47.279 what you're referring to and why, because I had massive 396 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.480 questions when I looked at it later after i'd worked security. 397 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:55.559 For instance, Fritz is an interesting character because he breaks 398 00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:00.200 a four point security hold that they have on the 399 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:03.200 body the subject, the guy you're supposed to be protecting. 400 00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.160 He is at the front point of a four point 401 00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:10.799