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Speaker 3: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 3: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 3: written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK every
Speaker 3: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 3: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 3: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. When Elizabeth
Speaker 3: Andys was found bound, stabbed, and strangled in her Ohio
Speaker 3: apartment in nineteen seventy eight, police and prosecutors decided within
Speaker 3: hours it was an open and shut case. Within days,
Speaker 3: Bob Young, a twenty three year old football player whod
Speaker 3: found his college sweetheart's lifeless body on their bedroom floor,
Speaker 3: was charged with their murder. To this day, police and
Speaker 3: prosecutors still say they had the right guy. Even though
Speaker 3: two juries, one criminal and one civil, disagreed and Young
Speaker 3: walked away a free man. Beth's case went cold. Nearly
Speaker 3: four decades later, two Cincinnati reporters re examined the murder
Speaker 3: and discovered that law enforcement ignored leeds that might have
Speaker 3: uncovered who really killed Beth Andy's. It wasn't that there
Speaker 3: weren't other people to look at. There were plenty, but
Speaker 3: no one bothered until now. The book they were featuring
Speaker 3: this evening is Accused, The Unsolved Murder of Elizabeth Andys,
Speaker 3: with my special guest journalists and authors Amber Hunt and
Speaker 3: Amanda Rossman. Welcome to the program, and thank you very
Speaker 3: much for agreeing to this interview. Amber Hunt and Amanda.
Speaker 4: Rossman, thank you for having us.
Speaker 6: Thank you very much. I hope I didn't pronounce mispronounced
Speaker 6: Elizabeth's last name.
Speaker 4: No, nope, that was right.
Speaker 6: Andy's Okay, great, Let's talk right away how you both
Speaker 6: came to We alluded to it that you were working
Speaker 6: for the Cincinnati Inquirer. But tell us how you came
Speaker 6: to want to and feel the need to compel to
Speaker 6: write this story do this podcast Accused, but especially this
Speaker 6: book Accused. Tell us about that. The genesis of it, Well.
Speaker 4: It started with a lawyer who was representing Beth's family
Speaker 4: and she had started to do some digging around in
Speaker 4: the case and she hit a brick wall. So she
Speaker 4: happened to be acquainted with the lawyer who represents the
Speaker 4: inquirer in legal matters when we have to sue for
Speaker 4: documents and that sort of thing. So she mentioned it
Speaker 4: to him more like in passing, can you believe I'm
Speaker 4: de with this kind of stuff? He recognized it as
Speaker 4: a possible story, mentioned it to an editor here again
Speaker 4: just sort of in passing, and then it was given
Speaker 4: to me to look at because I've written through crime
Speaker 4: books before and I always seemed to get drawn back
Speaker 4: into crime coverage. So I was looking at the case
Speaker 4: and it didn't take very long to realize that it
Speaker 4: wouldn't just be a story about, you know, a case
Speaker 4: that still isn't solved. There were actual leads to follow,
Speaker 4: and so I asked to be paired up with a photographer,
Speaker 4: which is what Amanda was at the time, and we
Speaker 4: just became really fixated on the case, borderline obsessed.
Speaker 5: At the time, we didn't know what kind of route
Speaker 5: it would take, so we didn't know if it would
Speaker 5: stay a story, if it would lend itself to more
Speaker 5: of a documentary video. Once we started doing the interview,
Speaker 5: hearing the voices of best friends and talking with these
Speaker 5: folks that should have been talked to back in the day.
Speaker 5: It just lended itself to podcast form.
Speaker 6: Now this book is in terms of the podcast. Again,
Speaker 6: we talked about the transcript, So what is it exactly
Speaker 6: the book represents as compared to the podcast or in
Speaker 6: relation to the podcasts.
Speaker 4: The transcript So if you have, if you have the
Speaker 4: podcast memorized, I suppose it won't be that exciting for you.
Speaker 4: But I have to say I wrote the episodes and
Speaker 4: when I read them compiled, I was reminded of things
Speaker 4: that I had forgotten in the reporting process. So I
Speaker 4: think it's a different way to present the case, and
Speaker 4: it allows you to see the information in a different way.
Speaker 4: And we also recognize too that there you know, there
Speaker 4: are a lot of people who don't necessarily listen to podcasts,
Speaker 4: so the book is a chance to reach a wider audience.
Speaker 4: Our goal the entire time was to try and tell
Speaker 4: back story in hopes of hitting the right people. Maybe
Speaker 4: somebody knows something out there. So this is another avenue
Speaker 4: that we can go down.
Speaker 6: To start this. You talk about the again, the place
Speaker 6: where all of this occurs in Oxford, Ohio. Talk about
Speaker 6: being a college town forty five minutes north of Cincinnati. Cincinnati,
Speaker 6: tell us a little bit more about Oxford, Ohio and
Speaker 6: its characteristics and why she would have been in this
Speaker 6: Elizabeth Andy's why she was in Oxford, Ohio.
Speaker 5: Specifically, Elizabeth had just graduated from college and which is
Speaker 5: very much a small college town.
Speaker 4: Oxford is.
Speaker 5: It's very small police department at the time one of
Speaker 5: those places where the college kind of was the town.
Speaker 5: So you have these counties that live there, but kind
Speaker 5: of work in the area as well, so everybody tends
Speaker 5: to know everybody. Elizabeth had just graduated college, she was
Speaker 5: looking to move out of Oxford coming into Cincinnati, had
Speaker 5: gotten i think a new job, right she was set
Speaker 5: to start work and moved to Cincinnati with her boyfriend Bob.
Speaker 6: Now we're talking about this is the crime occurs in
Speaker 6: December nineteen seventy eight, but you were talking about just
Speaker 6: finishing college. Now tell us about Bob Young and their relationship.
Speaker 6: Beth and Bob Young's relationship.
Speaker 4: Sure, and just so you know, the Beth graduated just
Speaker 4: two weeks before she was killed. She was one of
Speaker 4: those students who had an extra semester to finish up,
Speaker 4: and her living boyfriend, Bob young was in the same boat.
Speaker 4: So the two of them had just graduated, along with
Speaker 4: another friend who was a roommate. So Bob was a
Speaker 4: football player at Miami University, really kind of a soft
Speaker 4: spoken guy. It seemed like whatever aggression he had, he
Speaker 4: left it on the field. He really was enamored with
Speaker 4: Beth and they weren't quite sure what they were going
Speaker 4: to do after they graduated. There was talk of moving
Speaker 4: in together. There was talk of him going maybe out
Speaker 4: west and doing some work in his field of study,
Speaker 4: which was geology. But so the deal was that Beth
Speaker 4: was in her soon to be former apartment and she
Speaker 4: was cleaning up the place to move to Cincinnati, and
Speaker 4: she called her boyfriend, who was at home in Fairborn, Ohio,
Speaker 4: and said, hey, you know, come help me. So he
Speaker 4: wasn't in a huge rush to go help clean an apartment,
Speaker 4: so he took a shower, he went and got some gas,
Speaker 4: and then he showed up there about an hour and
Speaker 4: a half after she had called, and things were not right.
Speaker 4: He knew right away something was wrong. There was no
Speaker 4: light on in the apartment, and then when he walked
Speaker 4: in he found her body. So police at the time
Speaker 4: immediately focused on him, which is understandable. He found the body,
Speaker 4: that is the first person you interview, but they interrogated
Speaker 4: him for about fifteen hours straight and ended up getting
Speaker 4: a confession. So he confessed to having killed her, immediately recanted.
Speaker 4: And what's amazing to me is that the jury in
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy nine, at that point, early nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 4: actually believed him that he had falsely confessed.
Speaker 6: Let's go back to the scene of the crime itself
Speaker 6: and what we mentioned that he was volunteered to help
Speaker 6: her move and pack some stuff, and by the time
Speaker 6: he got there then he had this horrible discovery, and
Speaker 6: then he ran to the in the building. There was
Speaker 6: no one home because it was a Christmas break and
Speaker 6: so he had to run to the next building to
Speaker 6: find somebody that he could use a call to make
Speaker 6: the call, the nine one one call, of course, the
Speaker 6: days before cell phones. What did he find and what
Speaker 6: did he again, you talked about the police grabbing him
Speaker 6: right away and then him being arrested the next day,
Speaker 6: So tell us more about what was at the crime
Speaker 6: scene and what he did in response to that.
Speaker 4: He walked in to a darkened apartment and ended up
Speaker 4: turning on a light in the bedroom and he saw
Speaker 4: back she was bound, had her hands tied behind her back,
Speaker 4: her feet were tied together. She clearly had been in
Speaker 4: some kind of struggle. He thought at first she had
Speaker 4: been shot, because she had what looked like holes in
Speaker 4: her chest, but in reality they were knife wounds, apparently
Speaker 4: from a pair of sewing shears that were next to
Speaker 4: her body. So he sees this, he knows immediately that
Speaker 4: she is dead. I mean, it's visibly obvious, and he does.
Speaker 4: He runs out. He is banging on doors, nobody's answering.
Speaker 4: He runs out one building, goes into another, and finally
Speaker 4: finds somebody to use the phone. And you know, when
Speaker 4: police got there, they didn't find any evidence of a
Speaker 4: break in, so that was one of the reasons they
Speaker 4: zeroed in on him. But they brought him in straight away,
Speaker 4: and he never asked for a lawyer. He just went
Speaker 4: through this interrogation thinking. You note that he was helping
Speaker 4: the police figure out what had happened.
Speaker 6: Right right away. They talk about his whereabouts and the trip,
Speaker 6: the amount of time it would take from him to
Speaker 6: come from his apartment and go to Oxford to her apartment.
Speaker 6: What did he say in terms of that amount of time,
Speaker 6: and then you talk about again it's a little bit later.
Speaker 6: We're jumping ahead a little bit. But the police in
Speaker 6: that have have said that they refuted that time that
Speaker 6: he gave. So what's the time he gave and what
Speaker 6: did the police say in response to that?
Speaker 4: Well, Beth's phone call came around seven o'clock and Bob
Speaker 4: showered and all this, and there was an interesting time
Speaker 4: stamp on when he went to the local gas station.
Speaker 4: Somebody saw him there, but they were sure that he
Speaker 4: was there Hill eight, Yeah, because they knew because they
Speaker 4: had to rush home to watch more than Mindy on TV.
Speaker 4: And since this is before DVR days, that was a
Speaker 4: fixed time stamp for them, so that helped situate when
Speaker 4: he was at this gas station. So he said it
Speaker 4: took him an hour and a half to drive from
Speaker 4: the gas station to Beth's apartment in Oxford. So this
Speaker 4: is Fairborn to Oxford, Ohio, and police came. Of course,
Speaker 4: they did the same drive and they claimed that they
Speaker 4: got it done in seventy five minutes. And those fifteen minutes,
Speaker 4: if you believe the police that he shaved that off,
Speaker 4: that means that he walked in, got enraged, killed his girlfriend,
Speaker 4: and clean himself up all within this fifteen minute span.
Speaker 4: We did the drive for our reporting process, and it
Speaker 4: took us an hour and a half and a couple
Speaker 4: minutes change, so very.
Speaker 6: Very similar to what he had said.
Speaker 4: It was. And of course we're doing it, you know,
Speaker 4: nearly forty years later, so we're trying to give the
Speaker 4: benefit of the doubt. But we could not find anybody
Speaker 4: from the time, you know, somebody else did the drive
Speaker 4: as well, Like, there was only one individual who claimed
Speaker 4: he got it done in seventy five minutes, and that
Speaker 4: was one of the police officers, who very clearly believed
Speaker 4: he had the right guy.
Speaker 6: Obviously, you talk about the police zero in on him,
Speaker 6: and as per custom, they look at people that are
Speaker 6: close and so that's why he's a natural suspect. But
Speaker 6: what was their theory as to why he had killed Beth,
Speaker 6: his girlfriend?
Speaker 4: It was a pretty weak theory, to be honest, I think,
Speaker 4: you know, obviously I am no longer unbiased, but when
Speaker 4: I started reporting this, we made a point to keep
Speaker 4: all possibilities on the table. And their theory that they
Speaker 4: presented in trial was that she was nagging him to
Speaker 4: stay because he was considering going west. As I mentioned,
Speaker 4: she was nagging him. He didn't he wanted to break up,
Speaker 4: or he didn't want to break up, like honestly, it's
Speaker 4: a little convoluted. So their theory was just that the
Speaker 4: graduation had messed up the relationship and at some point
Speaker 4: she must have been nagging him, and so he snapped,
Speaker 4: and he grabbed these scissors that were in her room
Speaker 4: and stabbed her. To that.
Speaker 6: Right, was there any witnesses or anyone that they could
Speaker 6: find that they used a trial to say that he
Speaker 6: had any violent disposition or any incidents of him being, say, enraged.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, no one tested fight at trials saying that they
Speaker 4: had seen him fly into any kind of rage. Now,
Speaker 4: we interviewed somebody who mentioned that when he was drinking,
Speaker 4: you know, one time he saw him yell at some
Speaker 4: people in a parking lot. But that's as close as
Speaker 4: we got. And we interviewed more than seventy people for
Speaker 4: this project.
Speaker 6: Now you talk about this trial that was in nineteen
Speaker 6: seventy nine and he's being acquitted. Not to dwell on that,
Speaker 6: because we have this investigation that you undertook, both of
Speaker 6: you undertook to deal with. But given that theory, given
Speaker 6: them the no witnesses, what was the feature of that
Speaker 6: trial that was what made it evident that for the
Speaker 6: jury that he was innocent. What was it that seemed
Speaker 6: to make the jury sway the jury and pronounce him
Speaker 6: and acquit him at try role?
Speaker 4: Well, when Bob Young gave his confession, he provided details
Speaker 4: that ultimately ended up not being true. They didn't match
Speaker 4: the crime scene. So what she was bound with the
Speaker 4: material he used, he got that wrong. For example, the
Speaker 4: order that she would have been tied up versus stabbed,
Speaker 4: because it appeared she had been tied up first. We
Speaker 4: know that because there's a puncture wound in one of
Speaker 4: the ties, so that lets you know she's bound and
Speaker 4: then stabbed. So all of these little details that he
Speaker 4: could have, I mean, a confession should corroborate that stuff,
Speaker 4: and instead it did the opposite. And he was in
Speaker 4: a position to actually hire a lawyer, So he had
Speaker 4: a lawyer who you know, wasn't just punching a clock
Speaker 4: and presented a case saying, look, you know, this stuff
Speaker 4: doesn't line up. So how could his confession be true
Speaker 4: if it doesn't match the crime scene?
Speaker 6: Now, what is the situation, what prompts them to retry
Speaker 6: him and him have another trial. Tell us about those circumstances.
Speaker 4: It wasn't a retry. It was actually switching court. So
Speaker 4: when he was acquitted, he walks away and the prosecutor
Speaker 4: and police at the time say, you know what double
Speaker 4: jeopardy means. We can't retry him and we have no
Speaker 4: other suspects. The jury got this wrong. It happens the end.
Speaker 4: So the family came back around and said, okay, but
Speaker 4: what about civil liability? And so they suit him in
Speaker 4: civil court for wrongful death. So this is the way
Speaker 4: that oj Simpson ultimately was found guilty or liable in
Speaker 4: some way. They were trying to do that with Bob Young,
Speaker 4: but again the second jury found him not liable. Is
Speaker 4: really noteworthy because when you're when you're in civil courts,
Speaker 4: the threshold is preponderance of evidence, like so you're you
Speaker 4: need to be about fifty one percent sure, So it's
Speaker 4: a much lower threshold than beyond a reasonable doubt, and
Speaker 4: the jury still didn't go with it.
Speaker 6: Right now, you talk to all kinds of people that
Speaker 6: we mentioned that the police never spoke to, but you
Speaker 6: also spoke to people that the police did speak to,
Speaker 6: but of course you had more questions for them. It's
Speaker 6: how many years later, forty something years later, thirty seven
Speaker 6: years later, pardon me, let's talk about the friend that
Speaker 6: lived off campus with Beth. Sue parmally tell us about
Speaker 6: some of the conversations you have with her, and regarding what.
Speaker 4: Sue was interesting, I think it was really Sue's interview
Speaker 4: that told us this was an important story to tell,
Speaker 4: and because the way that the case was still affecting
Speaker 4: her nearly forty years later, it just reminds you that
Speaker 4: these horrible things happen, they don't go away. So the
Speaker 4: interesting thing with her was that we were interviewing her
Speaker 4: and she mentions, you know, okay, Beth lived with me,
Speaker 4: and she and Bob shared a room, and then it
Speaker 4: was me and my boyfriend, and we're both like, well,
Speaker 4: whoa hold up? Because nowhere in the case file with
Speaker 4: their reference to a fourth roommate, and we've got fingerprints
Speaker 4: at the crime scene that they have been trying to
Speaker 4: match up with somebody, and it very well could just
Speaker 4: be another roommate. So that was interesting. That was a
Speaker 4: moment where we knew, okay, it wasn't just a matter
Speaker 4: of whether pardon me. It wasn't a matter of whether
Speaker 4: police had I interviewed everybody. They didn't. They didn't ask
Speaker 4: thorough questions at the time, and I'd like to think
Speaker 4: that we did.
Speaker 6: You also talked to another friend named Hallie Chapman tell
Speaker 6: us about the relationship she had with Beth. Who is
Speaker 6: she and what are the kinds of things that she
Speaker 6: spoke to you about.
Speaker 4: Hallie had been really good friends with Beth. They met
Speaker 4: the first week of college and just hit it off
Speaker 4: straight away, and there was sort of this great group
Speaker 4: of friends, and Sue was part of that, and Halle's
Speaker 4: then boyfriend now husband was part of that too. It's
Speaker 4: really from Hallie that we got the clearest picture of
Speaker 4: Beth's personality. That she was sort of like a you know,
Speaker 4: a bit ahead of her time. She's very feminist and
Speaker 4: you know, a bit bra burning and not the type
Speaker 4: to be anybody's doormat. It's through Hallie that I realized
Speaker 4: that I probably would have really liked Beth.
Speaker 6: Right, Let's talk about an issue that comes up between
Speaker 6: the friends in your investigation about just the murder itself,
Speaker 6: and that Beth is speaking to her friends about an
Speaker 6: issue of an unlocked door at her apartment. Tell us
Speaker 6: about this issue and how serious she was about this
Speaker 6: and her feelings about it.
Speaker 5: So Beth was in the process of moving, so she
Speaker 5: had been talking with maintenance about moving out. You know,
Speaker 5: she is ready to give the keys and stuff over
Speaker 5: when during her move she noticed after running errands that
Speaker 5: her door had been unlocked. So she got really mad
Speaker 5: at the maintenance department that they had left her door unlocked.
Speaker 5: You know, she had been moving boxes, she had been
Speaker 5: coming in and out. Her stuff was pretty much left
Speaker 5: open to the rest of the apartment community. So she
Speaker 5: had a confrontation with one of the maintenance men after
Speaker 5: accusing them of leaving her door unlocked. And she had
Speaker 5: told Hallie and maybe Sue, I don't remember.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 5: She was really mad that that happened. And then that's
Speaker 5: where we that's where we meet Steve Green. He's the
Speaker 5: maintenance man that she had yelled at about leaving her
Speaker 5: door unlocked.
Speaker 6: Originally did how much of did police know of this?
Speaker 6: And what's interesting when you in this book is how
Speaker 6: much you took names that you said you took them
Speaker 6: from the police memos and then went from there. But
Speaker 6: how much of this was new to you going in
Speaker 6: in terms of what were the surprises of the information
Speaker 6: it was coming to you from these people.
Speaker 4: It was like we would find that there was a
Speaker 4: kernel of information that they just didn't bother pursuing, So
Speaker 4: there would be there would be baby versions of what
Speaker 4: we ultimately were able to report, but they didn't bother
Speaker 4: to really try and flesh it out. So they knew,
Speaker 4: for example, that Beth was pissed that day for in
Speaker 4: the language that her door had been left unlocked. She
Speaker 4: was telling everybody that she was really angry about this,
Speaker 4: and so they did of course talk to Steve and
Speaker 4: got an alibi from him, but then he moved out
Speaker 4: of state literally the next day, and he was gone
Speaker 4: and they never followed up with him again. And they
Speaker 4: knew another tidbit was that she was a bit uncomfortable
Speaker 4: with somebody that she worked with, and he, upon learning
Speaker 4: that she had been killed, called police and said, hey,
Speaker 4: just so you know, I spent the night before Beth
Speaker 4: was killed in her apartment with her, and they asked
Speaker 4: him about it, but they didn't go far enough with it.
Speaker 4: It just they would ask these superficial questions and then
Speaker 4: just leave it be because they had on blinders. They
Speaker 4: were so sure that the boyfriend did it, they didn't
Speaker 4: pursue anybody else with any seriousness.
Speaker 6: Now you spoke to Bob Young, because again, just because
Speaker 6: he was acquitted doesn't mean he's cleared as a suspect.
Speaker 6: And you're doing a complete investigation of this must have
Speaker 6: been very, very interesting to be able to and again
Speaker 6: a delicate situation trying to speak to him after all
Speaker 6: these years. What were those interviews like with Bob Young?
Speaker 4: That was one of the most interesting parts for me
Speaker 4: as a reporter, because I, of course didn't reach out
Speaker 4: to Bob initially. What I like to do is kind
Speaker 4: of the same thing that a police officer would do,
Speaker 4: in that I interview everybody on the circle so that
Speaker 4: when I finally do the interview with somebody who's, you know,
Speaker 4: really important, I'm coming in with as much information as
Speaker 4: I can. So I interviewed a lot of Beth and
Speaker 4: Bob's friends. I know, read all the trial transcripts we
Speaker 4: had done our drive from Fairborne to Oxford. It was
Speaker 4: it was really one of the last elements of the case.
Speaker 4: One of the last interviews to set up was with
Speaker 4: Bob so By the time I called him, we were
Speaker 4: very familiar with each other. He knew about me because
Speaker 4: his friends had been talking to me, and I knew
Speaker 4: all about him because I'd been researching the hell out
Speaker 4: of him for nearly a year. And so when I
Speaker 4: finally called him, he was just sort of like, Hi, Amber,
Speaker 4: like we knew each other. And I said, yeah, you know,
Speaker 4: i'd really like to do this. I'd like to sit
Speaker 4: down and talk. Yeah, okay, we can do that. And
Speaker 4: then we flew to his home state and did the interview.
Speaker 5: But through his friends, he was able to get a
Speaker 5: sense of who we were and how serious we were
Speaker 5: before he even talked to us.
Speaker 6: Right now, with this investigation, and I know, I'm just
Speaker 6: sort of jumping ahead here to try to capture all
Speaker 6: this incredible journey that you go through for this and
Speaker 6: all the amount of credible amount of people that you
Speaker 6: have to talk to to get to the next person
Speaker 6: of interest. Tell us how you get to the point
Speaker 6: where there's three people of interest, and who do you
Speaker 6: speak to that signals or singles out these three people
Speaker 6: before we talk about those three people that through this
Speaker 6: investigation that you decide that and this through these through
Speaker 6: the person that you interview, that these are people that
Speaker 6: should have been interviewed by police, and that you want
Speaker 6: to interview those people. Tell us about those three people.
Speaker 4: Well, it's funny how that stuff works out, because we
Speaker 4: heard about each of the individuals through you know, trial transcripts,
Speaker 4: through police memos, all of this. But there was also
Speaker 4: a letter written by Bob Young's defense lawyer back in
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy nine, and all three of these names were
Speaker 4: in that letter saying, hey, you guys, you might want
Speaker 4: to look at these guys alternatives to Bob Young plus
Speaker 4: the fourth name. So by the time we were in
Speaker 4: a position to look at that document, we had already
Speaker 4: started pursuing these people on our own. And in that letter,
Speaker 4: like I said, there were four people mentioned. Three of
Speaker 4: them were still alive, and we interviewed all three of
Speaker 4: them and were the first to interview one period and
Speaker 4: the other two we were the first to talk to
Speaker 4: them since the immediate aftermap and best step like they'd
Speaker 4: talked to them, but very little. And then the fourth
Speaker 4: person I tracked down a relative and at least was
Speaker 4: able to try and you know, learn a bit about
Speaker 4: his personality and what the family members thought he was
Speaker 4: capable of. So we you know, we we worked really
Speaker 4: hard trying to figure out who else might have done it.
Speaker 4: Statistically speaking, it probably is somebody that Beth knew, but
Speaker 4: it's you can't know until you go down every avenue.
Speaker 6: Now going down that every avenue, let's get back to
Speaker 6: the unlocked door and the maintenance man. That would seem
Speaker 6: like for a lot of people. We better check that out.
Speaker 6: So you did you you talk about tracking down Steve Green?
Speaker 6: Finally tell us about that those conversations. What did you
Speaker 6: ask him and how did he respond? Tell us a
Speaker 6: little bit about that encounter.
Speaker 4: He was an interesting guy to track down because his
Speaker 4: I have ways to look people up and I can
Speaker 4: sort of see where they've lived, and he bounced around
Speaker 4: the country a lot, and in fact wasn't living in
Speaker 4: Ohio anymore. But I did find somebody who seemed to
Speaker 4: be connected to him through an address, so we kind
Speaker 4: of just hail married drove out there. We couldn't find
Speaker 4: a phone number, so we had to go on person.
Speaker 4: We went out there, knocked on the door, and I
Speaker 4: swear it took about four minutes before somebody said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: I've got a phone number for him. And they just
Speaker 4: gave us his number, and then when I called him up,
Speaker 4: I told him, you know, this is a strange call
Speaker 4: to get, but I'm looking to find out some information
Speaker 4: about a murder that happened in nineteen seventy eight, and
Speaker 4: he knew immediately which one I was talking about, and
Speaker 4: so we set up a time to meet in person.
Speaker 4: He was an interesting character. He was quick to agree
Speaker 4: to meet with us, though, and he answered every one
Speaker 4: of our questions. One thing to note with him is
Speaker 4: that I had already talked to police about how I
Speaker 4: was trying to find Steve Green, and an officer said, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, it's really hard. I've tried, I can't find him.
Speaker 4: And then by knocking on the door we found him
Speaker 4: in about four minutes.
Speaker 6: Yeah, when we first mentioned this, it sounded like, and
Speaker 6: probably sounded like in your investigation as well, that the
Speaker 6: Steve Green had moved to Vegas suspiciously the day after,
Speaker 6: so that would prompt police to maybe want to speak
Speaker 6: to him why he would move to Vegas. What did
Speaker 6: you find out about the reason why he moved to
Speaker 6: Vegas the very next day?
Speaker 4: According to Steve, that was already in the works. He
Speaker 4: already had a plan to move out there because his
Speaker 4: brother was about to get divorced and he wanted to
Speaker 4: be there for emotional support and to help with his
Speaker 4: brother's kid. And we did find that in March I
Speaker 4: believe it was of seventy nine. I mean, there was
Speaker 4: a divorce on record, so it lines up, so you
Speaker 4: know that. I thinks things can always look really suspicious
Speaker 4: when you're when you're looking at them through a certain prism,
Speaker 4: but when you find out more information sometimes that it's
Speaker 4: a it's a little less concerning.
Speaker 6: Overall. When you spoke to him, given that he had
Speaker 6: a good reason, at least he had a response for
Speaker 6: why he moved to Vegas, given the other things about
Speaker 6: the unlocked door. And at first it seemed that there
Speaker 6: was you got the information from I think Sue primally,
Speaker 6: that that there actually was a confrontation, that she actually
Speaker 6: did speak to him, because at first it didn't seem
Speaker 6: at least it seemed like we police didn't have that
Speaker 6: bit of information that there that she had actually been
Speaker 6: told by Beth of the confrontation with the maintenance man
Speaker 6: about the unlocked door.
Speaker 4: She had meant Sue primally had told police at the
Speaker 4: time about this phone call. At least that is her
Speaker 4: memory of it, and I have no reason to think otherwise.
Speaker 4: But they didn't seem to take that very seriously, and
Speaker 4: in fact, Sue during the trial at one point says
Speaker 4: she was concerned that maybe this maintenance man was somebody
Speaker 4: who had committed the crime, and the prosecutor snapped at
Speaker 4: her to stop playing detective.
Speaker 6: Right now, you talk about Hallie Chapman now mcali, and
Speaker 6: Hallie was the first person to tell you about the relationship, well,
Speaker 6: because we talk about buzz Call being her boss, but
Speaker 6: Hallie filled in about d tales about that relationship and
Speaker 6: possibly his motivation to have more of a relationship with her.
Speaker 6: Tell us about.
Speaker 4: That this was an interesting conversation. Buzz Call was bes
Speaker 4: and Halle's boss at a place called Redox in Oxford.
Speaker 4: So this was a deli slash drive through beer shop basically.
Speaker 4: And when we're talking to Hallie, she mentioned, oh, he
Speaker 4: had a crush on her, and she would say things like,
Speaker 4: you know, hey, get back onto your side of the store.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: But he would ask a lot of personal questions about
Speaker 4: what she was planning to do in her off time,
Speaker 4: and there was an ongoing joke, but not really joke
Speaker 4: between the two women. I say not really a joke
Speaker 4: because they were concerned enough that they actually made a
Speaker 4: point not to walk home alone from work when he
Speaker 4: was there. But it was always sort of said between
Speaker 4: the two of them in this lighthearted way, like, oh,
Speaker 4: he's got a crush on you. Yeah, I know he's
Speaker 4: you know. So then the day that Beth dies, buzz
Speaker 4: Call is the one who phoned police and said, hey,
Speaker 4: I spent some time with her Wednesday night, the night
Speaker 4: before she was killed. She invited me to her apartment
Speaker 4: and we watched a movie on TV and she was packing,
Speaker 4: and I figured you guys would want to know that. Well,
Speaker 4: none of Beth's friends had any idea that that encounter
Speaker 4: had happened, or that he had said the encounter happened,
Speaker 4: And in fact, they're pretty sure that she would never
Speaker 4: have opened her door to him because she was supposedly
Speaker 4: uncomfortable with what she saw, as you know, his infatuation
Speaker 4: with her. So that was one of the things we
Speaker 4: learned in our reporting and one of the surprises along
Speaker 4: the way.
Speaker 6: You talk about speaking to somebody about a possible motive,
Speaker 6: a really good motive based on their experience on why
Speaker 6: he would say to police and volunteer police that he
Speaker 6: was in her apartment. What would be the possible reason
Speaker 6: for it? According to the person you spoke to, and
Speaker 6: we talked to.
Speaker 4: An former FBI profiler, and his hypothesis, or at least,
Speaker 4: you know, a suggestion, was that if you were concerned
Speaker 4: that fingerprints or other evidence is going to place you
Speaker 4: in a place, in a location, it might be a
Speaker 4: wise idea to explain why that stuff might show up
Speaker 4: there to begin with. So in short, and I'm dancing
Speaker 4: around it myself, so I'm just gonna say it out right,
Speaker 4: but basically it was saying, hey, it's possible that this
Speaker 4: guy wasn't there the night before she died, but he
Speaker 4: wanted to explain why his fingerprints might be there, so
Speaker 4: he told police that he was there the night before
Speaker 4: or rather than then letting them think that maybe he
Speaker 4: was there the night of, as in he is a suspect.
Speaker 6: What's interesting is along this way in this investigation, you're
Speaker 6: not shy in speaking to people and speaking your mind
Speaker 6: on former police ineptitude and expressing your frustration. What do
Speaker 6: police or the people that you spoke to recently, what
Speaker 6: do they have to say about the idea of this
Speaker 6: former boss having a motive to kill his employee. When
Speaker 6: you spoke to people, what do they have to say
Speaker 6: to that idea?
Speaker 4: Two or they were very receptive to the notion and
Speaker 4: promised us that they would interview him. We've been two
Speaker 4: years out since the podcast first debuted, and as far
Speaker 4: as I know, they hadn't done that. So I'm kind
Speaker 4: of hoping that releasing this in book form again puts
Speaker 4: pressure on them to do their damn jobs, which includes
Speaker 4: interviewing people that we talked to. I mean, these are
Speaker 4: people who are alive, They're able to answer questions right now.
Speaker 4: We were told that they would they would do their jobs,
Speaker 4: and so my job as a journalist is to hold
Speaker 4: people accountable and I'm going to keep trying.
Speaker 5: To do that.
Speaker 6: You also put something very interesting that the original lead
Speaker 6: detective on this case, Detective Patrick Baird, just happened to
Speaker 6: be a good friend of this buzz call. Didn't he
Speaker 6: wasn't he?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Well, Randa mentioned that it is a small town,
Speaker 4: like basically, the students are strangers, but they come in
Speaker 4: and they go, and the people who were left behind,
Speaker 4: the ones who live there, if they all know each other.
Speaker 4: We didn't have any inkling that the two were buddies
Speaker 4: until we actually were interviewing somebody who was friendly with
Speaker 4: Buzz Call because we wanted to make sure that we
Speaker 4: weren't just talking to people who found him unsettling or
Speaker 4: creepy or what have you. So we found a friend
Speaker 4: and she said, oh, you know what, you should talk
Speaker 4: to Patrick Barrett about Buzz. They were really good friends.
Speaker 4: And of course I knew his name because he was
Speaker 4: the lead detective on the case, and so that was like, oh,
Speaker 4: really they were really good friends. Good to know, right.
Speaker 6: You also include this as well with that, Halliet said
Speaker 6: that he would make cracks. This Buzz guy would make
Speaker 6: cracks like are you going to go off with your big,
Speaker 6: big football playing boyfriend tonight? So there was that kind
Speaker 6: of to me that was some red flags when I
Speaker 6: heard that kind of conversation. In terms of possible motive
Speaker 6: for this.
Speaker 4: Well, anytime you look at something and you know through
Speaker 4: a prism of suspicion, it can absolutely look unsettling, and
Speaker 4: so I try not to put too much into how
Speaker 4: it looks in hindsight. But what I'm absolutely certain of
Speaker 4: is that the guy should be talked to. He should
Speaker 4: have been back then, and he should be now. There
Speaker 4: are a lot of questions that need answering. I mean,
Speaker 4: Beth talked to her friends the morning that she died.
Speaker 4: She talked about having gotten pulled over for a speeding
Speaker 4: ticket that day. She talked about yelling at that maintenance man.
Speaker 4: It is very odd that to none of them she
Speaker 4: mentioned the supposed encounter hanging out with her boss in
Speaker 4: her apartment the night before she died. It's just the
Speaker 4: kind of thing that you would expect her to share
Speaker 4: with her girlfriends, especially the one who worked at the
Speaker 4: same place with her.
Speaker 6: Absolutely, absolutely, you have another person of again, incredible interest
Speaker 6: as we go on in this. It's just amazing. What again,
Speaker 6: I know better, but I'm looking at people going, well,
Speaker 6: that person looks good for this. But then we have
Speaker 6: another character that looks very good as well, very very interesting.
Speaker 6: This boyd Glasscock tell us about this incident with Glasscock
Speaker 6: and what he does after the murder of Beth, and
Speaker 6: his relationship with Bob.
Speaker 4: Boy.
Speaker 5: Glassclock was a I guess you could say, an acquaintance
Speaker 5: of Bob's. He painted houses with Bob over the summer.
Speaker 5: I think at some point became fixated on Bob as
Speaker 5: a person.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 5: After Beth's death, came to Bob's parents' house and presented
Speaker 5: Bob with a pin cushion. What we know of the
Speaker 5: pincushion is that it had some sort of red liquidsh
Speaker 5: material on it, so it was you know, in hindsight.
Speaker 5: Bob says, you know, it could have been blood, but
Speaker 5: that he didn't understand why Boyd would be presenting him
Speaker 5: with this pincushion, And of course Bob didn't keep it
Speaker 5: at the time, just wanted him out of his house.
Speaker 5: I think Bob's dad ended up kicking him out. One
Speaker 5: thing to note from of Beth was that she was
Speaker 5: very much into fashion. She was always sewing, and so
Speaker 5: the pincushion seems to be some sort of symbolic nature too,
Speaker 5: but that Bob didn't seem to understand at the time.
Speaker 6: What did what else did he have to say to
Speaker 6: Bob in terms of it's amazing the relationship that he
Speaker 6: thought he had. Would tell us about this, his idea
Speaker 6: of the relationship he had with Bob, and the idea
Speaker 6: he had about the feelings Bob had for Beth. Very
Speaker 6: interesting conversation.
Speaker 4: Boyd said that Bob actually was in love with him,
Speaker 4: with Boyd that he wasn't in love with Beth, and
Speaker 4: and Bob said, what on earth gave you that idea?
Speaker 4: And Boyd said, well, because we were out painting these
Speaker 4: houses and we went to get you know, food, and
Speaker 4: you said, I'll by this time, you get next time.
Speaker 4: And somehow Boyd apparently translated that in his head as
Speaker 4: I'm in love with you, So he had he had
Speaker 4: he had an unusual fixation on Bob, and then inserted
Speaker 4: himself in the in the case by showing up at
Speaker 4: Bob's house and theorizing about what's been the best. It
Speaker 4: ended up being very concerning to Bob, but he didn't
Speaker 4: quite understand like where it all fit in and how
Speaker 4: it might affect the investigation. So Boyd's name was mentioned
Speaker 4: by that defense lawyer once upon a time in the
Speaker 4: letter to prosecutors. They went so far as to ask
Speaker 4: for an alibi. He said he was at the ice
Speaker 4: Capades in Lexington. I believe it was Kentucky, a couple
Speaker 4: hours away, in other words, from Oxford, and that was it.
Speaker 4: That was that was all they looked into him. I
Speaker 4: cannot explain Boyd's behavior giving a griev man a supposedly
Speaker 4: blood covered pincushion as a gift when his girlfriend had
Speaker 4: just been killed with sewing shears is very bizarre.
Speaker 6: What do you think about the idea that this was
Speaker 6: enough motive for him to kill is What evidence do
Speaker 6: you have other than this bizarre altercation? But is there
Speaker 6: any evidence that may include him as possible killer.
Speaker 4: This one's an interesting personality for us to weigh because
Speaker 4: the lawyer in the case, the one who initially mentioned
Speaker 4: it to the Inquirer's lawyer that Andy's family lawyer is
Speaker 4: very certain in her mind that Boyd Glascock is a
Speaker 4: key person of interest needs to be looked at seriously,
Speaker 4: not just for this case, but she believes that he
Speaker 4: might be involved in other murders as well. I have
Speaker 4: found no evidence pointing to that. His behavior is absolutely bizarre,
Speaker 4: but somebody who behaves bizarrely doesn't necessarily become violent, and
Speaker 4: we have not found anything that points to him having
Speaker 4: been violent. He was arrested a couple of weeks before
Speaker 4: Beth's murder, and that's it's clear that he had mental
Speaker 4: health issues. There's no question that there was some kind
Speaker 4: of problem there, and in fact, his family member whom
Speaker 4: I interviewed, she said the same. But if he had
Speaker 4: mental health issues and he was going down a path
Speaker 4: of violence, he would think that in between Beth's murder
Speaker 4: and his death in the nineties that there would have
Speaker 4: been maybe something else tied to him, and there wasn't
Speaker 4: as far as we know.
Speaker 6: Now. They talk about the other person of interest and
Speaker 6: I don't have his last name in front of me,
Speaker 6: but the person named r J. Why is this RJ
Speaker 6: a person of interest? And tell us more about him?
Speaker 4: Well, we didn't include him in our if not Bob
Speaker 4: Who episodes, but we absolutely included him in the overall
Speaker 4: He was mentioned in that defense lawyer letter. R J
Speaker 4: was a friend.
Speaker 6: R J.
Speaker 4: Bialela was a friend of Beth's from the Canton area
Speaker 4: and he had known her since high school. They were buddies,
Speaker 4: and he is when we interviewed him, he made it
Speaker 4: clear that he was very emotionally attached to Beth and
Speaker 4: and in fact said that if she had lived, maybe
Speaker 4: the two of them would have married. But as far
Speaker 4: as we know, there was never any relationship beyond friendship.
Speaker 4: So in the defense letter there's mentioned of her having
Speaker 4: maybe rebuffed in advance at a Christmas party a few
Speaker 4: days before her death, but that was never looked into.
Speaker 4: RJ was not interviewed by a police in any meaningful way,
Speaker 4: and there's no alibi on record for him.
Speaker 6: You right that you find that odd that he wasn't
Speaker 6: asked to provide an alibi? Is that true?
Speaker 4: Well? Neither was buzz for me. The odd part is
Speaker 4: just looking at how many obvious obvious oversights there were
Speaker 4: in the investigation. I mean, when somebody is murdered, you
Speaker 4: think that their friends are going to be interviewed. That
Speaker 4: seems logical, and that everybody acquainted with her would be
Speaker 4: asked their whereabouts the night that she died, but that
Speaker 4: didn't happen.
Speaker 6: Here you talk about the other roommate, did you were
Speaker 6: surprised to find out? And I guess didn't know about
Speaker 6: it all. I believe his name's John Shay. What did
Speaker 6: he have to say when you spoke to him?
Speaker 4: He said he had never been contacted by police, and jeeves,
Speaker 4: I probably should have been, shouldn't I That's one of
Speaker 4: those strange, inexplicable oversights.
Speaker 5: And he had made it clear to us that he
Speaker 5: would be happy going forward. To help with any investigations.
Speaker 6: Interesting, A big part of this story is too is
Speaker 6: the contribution from a volunteer group of experts called and
Speaker 6: again if I mispronounces VIDOC society, tell us a little
Speaker 6: bit about the society and your interaction with them. What
Speaker 6: did they help you do or see? Tell us about that.
Speaker 4: VEDOC is this really cool group of experts in a
Speaker 4: variety of fields. So you might have polygraphers there, you
Speaker 4: might have former homicide detectives, pathologists. They basically get together
Speaker 4: monthly in Philadelphia and look at cold cases that somebody
Speaker 4: will come in with a presentation and they'll look at
Speaker 4: what they've got and say, you know, so and so
Speaker 4: might have done it. And it's this cool thing because
Speaker 4: you've got these people with this huge, you know, so
Speaker 4: much experience in one room that it's mind boggling. But
Speaker 4: at the same time, we did kind of realize that
Speaker 4: they were limited to what the presentation was, so we
Speaker 4: went and talked to them and learned a lot about
Speaker 4: polygraphs because those played a role in the investigation. And
Speaker 4: then we subsequently interviewed they a profiler there who was
Speaker 4: just a real jerk.
Speaker 6: I hold back a lot, so you know, Yeah, why
Speaker 6: tell us? So why you believe? Again? It's very interesting.
Speaker 6: I mean it's been quite a few books of as
Speaker 6: of late that they've been beaten up on profilers by
Speaker 6: showing profiles that were wildly inaccurate. So you didn't ask
Speaker 6: him maybe for a profile, but you spoke to a profiler.
Speaker 6: Why was he a jerk? What was it about? What
Speaker 6: was a jerk about him? What did he have to say?
Speaker 4: Well, he he was, he liked He called me a
Speaker 4: little woman and told me I was being coquettish. I'm
Speaker 4: not sure if I'm coming across as coquettish at the moment.
Speaker 4: I've never been in my life. Basically, the ten the
Speaker 4: tenor of the kind conversation was, hey, little girl, what
Speaker 4: do you know? Why are you looking at this being
Speaker 4: a detective? Stop being a detective? So you're playing detective?
Speaker 4: Well you know the detectives aren't. So what do you
Speaker 4: want me to do here?
Speaker 6: So?
Speaker 4: Yeah, there, the profile role is pretty You need to
Speaker 4: have a certain kind of personality and no doubt, it
Speaker 4: seems to draw big egos and you kind of have
Speaker 4: to stick your line a lot and trust your gut.
Speaker 4: So all of that, maybe it wouldn't that personality type,
Speaker 4: wouldn't make a good journalist.
Speaker 6: Now, let's talk about somebody that has been on this
Speaker 6: program just recently with his fantastic book Sons of Canes
Speaker 6: and that incredible homicide investigation over from the beginning of time.
Speaker 6: Peter Vronsky, historian and author. You asked him about the
Speaker 6: possibility of a serial killer working or in or around
Speaker 6: Ohio being the perpetrator of Best Murder. You looked into this,
Speaker 6: you spoke to Peter Vronsky, tell us a little bit
Speaker 6: about what he had to say and what you found
Speaker 6: in relation to that possibly a serial killer could be
Speaker 6: responsible for this.
Speaker 4: I'm glad to hear you've had him on. He's a
Speaker 4: really interesting guy. Yeah, yeah, I really liked that episode. Well,
Speaker 4: when you're looking at who might have killed somebody, obviously
Speaker 4: you're looking first of people who know him, because, as mentioned, statistically,
Speaker 4: that's the most likely place you're going to find a killer.
Speaker 4: But if it's not one of those people, you're either
Speaker 4: dealing with somebody who happens to have just won off
Speaker 4: killed a human being for no reason but didn't know them,
Speaker 4: or you're looking at somebody who has maybe killed before
Speaker 4: or killed since and then you're dealing with serial killer.
Speaker 4: So in other words, if we if we didn't have
Speaker 4: an idea of who it was, if we weren't hitting
Speaker 4: on the right people, and then serial killer is definitely
Speaker 4: in the realm of possibilities. And there was a lot
Speaker 4: of that going on, and so I reached out to
Speaker 4: Vronsky because he has written a number of books on
Speaker 4: serial killers, and he presented a pretty fascinating theory as
Speaker 4: to why we saw so many in the late seventies
Speaker 4: and through the eighties. And his theory is that these
Speaker 4: are people who were raised by World War Two veterans,
Speaker 4: and that those people came back traumatized and damaged and
Speaker 4: basically in turn damaged their kids. Because the theory is
Speaker 4: that your personality is set, you know, by around age five.
Speaker 4: So instead of looking at what was going on in
Speaker 4: seventy eight, you need to be looking at what was
Speaker 4: happening about, you know, twenty thirty years prior. And there
Speaker 4: you go.
Speaker 6: You did come up with a name that not to
Speaker 6: say this is the person, but a possibility after you
Speaker 6: looked at Again, I laughed because you talked about the
Speaker 6: Edward Wayne Edwards. But again you talked about the author,
Speaker 6: and he his credibility is not so good because he
Speaker 6: claims Edward Wayne Edwards killed almost everybody in America. That's
Speaker 6: high profile case. But you did zero in on a
Speaker 6: guy named Nolan George. Tell us a little bit about why.
Speaker 4: Well, Nolan rayed George was known to kill around here,
Speaker 4: so proximity wise that's a plus. But both strangling and
Speaker 4: stabbing were methods that he used, though usually I don't
Speaker 4: remember it being together, but at least separately he used those.
Speaker 4: And we started to go down this path and we
Speaker 4: were getting pretty excited, and then we realized, oh, well,
Speaker 4: but he was arrested and he was in prison during
Speaker 4: this time, and so then we started to look another direction,
Speaker 4: and then Amanda found Yeah, by chance.
Speaker 5: We were looking at different articles and different things and
Speaker 5: came across a past article from I think it was
Speaker 5: an Inquire archive that said that Nolan Ray George had
Speaker 5: escaped from prison for two months I believe, right around
Speaker 5: the time that Beth was killed.
Speaker 4: Wow, so we have this guy who was looking kind
Speaker 4: of good, and then we take him off the table
Speaker 4: because oh, he's in prison, and then all of a
Speaker 4: sudden we're like, oh wait, but he wasn't. He wasn't.
Speaker 4: Just in this tiny window of time he happened to
Speaker 4: have escaped.
Speaker 6: Yeah, in this investigation too, you mentioned the wild goose chase,
Speaker 6: and so we talk about nineteen seventy eight. We mentioned
Speaker 6: it many times on this there was no DNA so
Speaker 6: and there was protocol on how to keep evidence. There
Speaker 6: even were rules as to gather evidence and keep evidence,
Speaker 6: but they did not know about DNA. So now when
Speaker 6: you look at DNA and somebody says, well, now, all
Speaker 6: you'd have to do is, do you know because of
Speaker 6: the testing advances with DNA, tell us about your journey
Speaker 6: you call a wild goose chase to find evidence that
Speaker 6: was at these trials, evidence that the police should have
Speaker 6: tell us about this evidence.
Speaker 4: There was a lot of evidence gathered from the scene.
Speaker 4: We've got lists describing the evidence. Unfortunately, we don't have
Speaker 4: bags full of the evidence because they lost it. So
Speaker 4: when we heard early on in our investigation that they
Speaker 4: didn't have the evidence, at first, we're like, okay, well,
Speaker 4: then what's the point of all this? What can we do?
Speaker 4: But we started to research what it means for evidence
Speaker 4: to be lost and we discovered that a lot of
Speaker 4: times it's just misplaced. It's in somebody's basement, it's in
Speaker 4: you know, a city building's attic. So we started to
Speaker 4: look through trying to find the paper trail for the evidence.
Speaker 4: You know, it made it through two trials, so we
Speaker 4: followed it to that end, and I would I would say,
Speaker 4: we still have hope that that's going to turn up,
Speaker 4: because yes, the wild Goose Chase part was that you know,
Speaker 4: you place one phone call and they say, ah, we
Speaker 4: can't find it. But if you call so and so,
Speaker 4: and then you call so and so and she says, oh,
Speaker 4: I don't know what you're talking about, but you know
Speaker 4: you can go check with this guy, and this guy
Speaker 4: sends you back to so and so and it's just
Speaker 4: like hitting her head against a wall. But the good part,
Speaker 4: I think for me, in investigating this case and laying
Speaker 4: it out in both the podcasts and the book, we
Speaker 4: got to show people how much work goes into the
Speaker 4: work of journalism, and that has been really rewarding hearing
Speaker 4: from people who just had no idea. You know, when
Speaker 4: somebody declines comment you can't find something, it's not a
Speaker 4: matter of you know, I tried for thirty minutes. It
Speaker 4: can be a matter of we tried for a year.
Speaker 6: Right now with this incredible investigation. You first did this podcast,
Speaker 6: and like you say, this is transcribed, what is next
Speaker 6: after this book? Not to keep people hanging, but what
Speaker 6: is next with this podcast Accused, with this book, with
Speaker 6: this investigation, Well.
Speaker 4: We have a second season that took a look a
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty seven case in Newport, Kentucky. That one's also
Speaker 4: going to be compiled. So if audio isn't your thing,
Speaker 4: we'll have that out in book form, I believe next year.
Speaker 4: And at the moment we are starting research on a
Speaker 4: third season. Accused did very well as a podcast, and
Speaker 4: the nicest part about that is that we were never
Speaker 4: focused on or instructed to pay attention to download numbers
Speaker 4: or that kind of success. We were told do good journalism,
Speaker 4: and we got very lucky in that our good journalism
Speaker 4: was successful commercially. And so now right this moment, my
Speaker 4: job is to reinvestigate cold cases and it's kind of
Speaker 4: a dream job for me. It's what I'm good at,
Speaker 4: so hopefully I'll be able to do it until they
Speaker 4: tell me to stop.
Speaker 5: But we do still keep in touch with the folks,
Speaker 5: you know, best friends, trying to stay on top of
Speaker 5: anything that might become available for best case, and you know,
Speaker 5: Amber still calling police and holding them accountable and checking
Speaker 5: in on where the case may be and if they're
Speaker 5: still looking into it.
Speaker 4: And amazingly, I have to say some of the people
Speaker 4: who follow us are they're doing their best to hold
Speaker 4: the officials accountable too. They call them up and then
Speaker 4: them emails and and that's it means a lot to me.
Speaker 4: The best story has resonated so much that people who
Speaker 4: hear it or read about it are moved to try
Speaker 4: and help her.
Speaker 6: And there is a real possibility too. We've seen things
Speaker 6: happen from documentaries making a murderer. We've seen things in
Speaker 6: cases where podcasts have spurred the law enforcement to reopen cases,
Speaker 6: and so part of this, as you mentioned before, I
Speaker 6: guess it's good to say it stated again. One of
Speaker 6: the purposes is to hopefully again with this publication of
Speaker 6: this book, is to have somebody take this ball and
Speaker 6: run with it, continue this investigation still with the pursuit
Speaker 6: of trying to find the answer to who killed Elizabeth.
Speaker 4: Isn't it absolutely that's what we want. I mean, I
Speaker 4: can't subpoena people, and I can't I can't ask for
Speaker 4: search warrants, so I did my best and I took
Speaker 4: it as far as I can take it as a journalist.
Speaker 4: Now police need to do their jobs and pick up
Speaker 4: from where we left off.
Speaker 6: Absolutely. I want to thank you Amber Hunt and Amanda
Speaker 6: Rossman for coming on and talking about Accused. For those
Speaker 6: that might want to check out your incredible podcast and
Speaker 6: this book tell us about how they can where they
Speaker 6: can find Accused, and how they might if you have
Speaker 6: a Facebook page or website for the book itself, how
Speaker 6: they might just find out more information, where to get
Speaker 6: the book, et cetera.
Speaker 4: There are quick links on my website, reporter Amber dot
Speaker 4: com all of the podcasts and the books and stuff
Speaker 4: like that. But anywhere you listen to podcasts, we're there.
Speaker 4: The book is available on Amazon and at your local bookstore,
Speaker 4: and if it's not there, please ask for it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and on Twitter, We're Accused podcast now on Facebook, we're
Speaker 4: the same.
Speaker 6: We're there easy to find. Well. Again, thank you very much,
Speaker 6: Amber Hunt and Amanda Rossman. It's been a great pleasure
Speaker 6: talking about Accused, the unsolved murder of Elizabeth Andys. Thank
Speaker 6: you very much, and you have a great evening. Hope
Speaker 6: to talk to you again.
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, good night, good night, good Night
Speaker 5: Stand