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Speaker 1: Hey.

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Speaker 2: My name is John O'Keefe and I live in Petaluma, California.

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Speaker 1: My favorite golf course is Rooster Rhyme. This is Golf Smarter,

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episode one thousand and two.

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Speaker 2: We were fortunate to be at the Masters. Number ten

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requires a draw off. The team Colin Morrikawa prefers to

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hit a fake, so part of preparation was him hitting

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a lot of three woods with the draw. He hit

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that fairway four out of four times. Now, it's not

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a preference, but we prepared for it in advance, thus

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we have a strategy for it. I think it's also

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that people are thinking they're forcing something. Oh I don't

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like back right hoole locations him at the middle of

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the green. It's not saying you have to do anything,

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but you're right. I think we get trauma because it

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does trigger something that we've done poorly before. So it

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reminds us, Oh, I don't like holes like this because

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I did blank on yesterday and so intend to flipping

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it go. Yeah, that might have been just a poort

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off swing, had nothing to do with the shot itself.

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But how do I now shift gears of what is

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the shot required? Have I done it before? If I

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can do a different shot, I can lay up. I

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think people pigeonhole themselves a little bit too much. But

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I would also say what's required, A smooth little three wood,

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it's all that's required. I've done that before, I can

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do it again. But replacing that initial threat with what

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we've done before in a positive way is what I

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like to do.

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Speaker 1: The difference between confidence over cockiness is subtle, but it's

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effective in lowering scores with reccessing.

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Speaker 3: Hosts, this is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights

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from great golf minds to help you lower your score

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and raise your golf IQ.

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Speaker 1: Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome back to the Golf

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Smarter podcast.

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Speaker 2: Rick, Hello, Fred, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I am fine? I'm excited. I love this celebration that

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I've been doing on episode one thousand and everything around it,

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and getting a short list of people that I've wanted

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to have come back and just you know, air their

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complete knowledge and just grind you as best as I can.

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And you are high on the list because I just

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love our conversation. So thank you for.

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Speaker 2: Coming back, Thank you for the invite.

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Speaker 1: Unbelievable. So you know, we we've had multiple conversations. We

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talk about the flow code, we talk, we've and I've

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talked to many people about the mental aspect, and that's

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really the focus of this, uh this podcast. And it

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seems as if over the last twenty years of this

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podcast that the conversation about the mental game has only

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strengthened and maybe even came out of nowhere from before

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where it was all swing mechanics. And you are following that,

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especially with the flow code at theflow code dot com.

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Please check it out. What if you witness because you've

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been coaching for more than those twenty years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's the evolution like I talk about

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with performance in goal specific I've been a member of

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the I am a member of the PGA, been coaching

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for over thirty years. I've seen a transition happening through coaching.

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And again, at first it is about swing mechanics and

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getting good fundamentals. We have to teach technique and skills,

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of course we do. And I think when we look

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at maybe what happened almost twenty years ago, we started

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seeing physical Fitness TPI come on board a little bit more,

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which was awesome. We started understanding the structure of your

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body is going to govern your function what you can

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and cannot do. Right. I'm a lot older now, I'm

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a little bit tighter than I was playing college golf.

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I can't do the same things I used to be

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able to do with this swinging right. So there's a

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physical component. I think we're getting more knowledge on that.

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I think we've got club fitting has improved. We've got

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even biomechanics, which is a fascinating the industry of force

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plates and three D and vests and all these things

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to understand how the body's working in real time is

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all fantastic. And yet I think that puzzle piece, which

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we have always believed has been important, but we are

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finally talking about it, is the mental side of the game.

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And we go back to you and I read tons

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of books. You go back to Nicholas books and Harvey

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Panic books. I mean there's some mental game stuff thrown

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in there, a little bit if you really want to

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dig in, right. Of course, management a little bit here

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and there. So I've seen a huge upswing in mental

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game coaching. Slash acceptance, I guess is the first word

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of why are we talking about it more? Because I

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think the players are talking about it more in their

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post round interviews and when they win, it's like, hey,

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what was this week about? You don't hear Yes, I

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got my great position of my takeaway. It's more like, hey,

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I got my mindset right, I got my focus right.

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I dealt with the pressure in this way. I did

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some breathing, and because it's out there, more people were going, oh, Rory,

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he's like me. I'm like him, Oh my gosh, we're

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on the same I can't swing like him, but I

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could go through some of the other mental stuff like him. Huh.

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Maybe that's something I can address. And I think there's

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some wonderful I mean, you have some of the best

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mental game coaches and experts on so you know, that's

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a growing field and us coaches, I believe we have

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a lot to say and it's starting to be accepted

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and applied finally.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I'm curious from your perspective as we

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talk about that twenty years, there's also been a tremendous

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amount of change in golf through technology, right, and a

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lot of it of course being you know ball speed

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and your launch angle and you know your dispersion all

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that stuff. The technology is there a GPS. But how

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has that impacted the mental aspect of what we do?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think part of it is the certainty, like

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the measurables.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: So you mentioned that when Backman or the first radar

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systems came out, we had factual data of what a

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ball did, and we also knew what the club and

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club face was doing to make it produce this and

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the attack angle, and so it wasn't guessing anymore, and

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I think that was liberating for a lot of coaches,

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like we're not guessing. Great when you have certainty of

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when the club does this and the ball does this,

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we can then reverse engineer the swing mechanics. That's a

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great space to be. Okay, then you start seeing this

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technology of the force plates and of the three D

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and all this to get even more of those specific measurements,

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and for some people in the industry that's been a

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key thing of knowing what works and what doesn't. Now

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I would we can go on a whole other discussion

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on is the technology being overused and we're not coaching

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enough that we can talk about here in a moment.

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I don't want the technology to be the coach right now,

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with the mental side, though, is I'm excited on two fronts.

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Is technology is starting to be used in the mental

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side of the game. If we want to measure the

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mental game. Up to this point, it's been very challenging.

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How do you measure the mental game. You take people's opinion, Hey,

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did you focus on the course? And if they said yes,

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then I guess that's our measurement. It was very subjective, right,

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But now it's exciting. And I've experimented with some of

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these technologies in the last fifteen years and they've accelerated.

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Is you know, eg, brain brain wave sets. Right, we

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can actually measure brain waves in real time while somebody's

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hitting a golf ball. We have heart rate variability, and

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we can measure not only the heart rate, but the

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stress response somebody is having in real time. We have

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more wearables on right, people are wearing I have this

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aura ring that measures heart rate and sleep patterns, and

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we have whoop. We have all these wearables now, so

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we're starting to uncover a little bit more about what's

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happening maybe deeper in somebody. Right, And it's going to

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only accelerate with virtual reality and augmented reality. We're gonna

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be able to put people in stressful environments, provide interventions

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to help them understand how to deal with those stressful environments.

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Just like if you're trying to make a let's say,

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a four foot put to win the Masters in the

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Career Grand Slam or something like that, right, I.

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Speaker 1: Wonder what it could be talking about.

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Speaker 2: So when we have these different environments, can we train

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for those? And that's what I'm excited moving forward as

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we go. So technology can be used for good or

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for evil, depending on how much we want to mess

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people's heads up and what are they focusing on. But

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I think a lot of coaches are relying on it

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to get more of the factual data of cause and effect.

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I think the mental game is still a few years behind,

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let's say the swing stuff, but it's getting there and

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we're gonna have some pretty cool stuff here in the

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next few years. Why behind because the wearable technologies still

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need to work in real time better. So like there's

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a lot of players on the PGA Tour that wear

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the whoop band, right, it does measure heart rate variability,

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but it can't do it by second by second, and

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in real time is where we as much as we

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would like it's close, it's getting there, but if it's

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giving a vague thing of what happened in the last minute,

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But we want to know what's happening when we make

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the golf swing. That's why I say the wearable technology

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is going to get better. I think we'll be able

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to measure more things and more accurately. You know, right now,

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we don't put a EEG headband on and somebody when

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they're playing a PGA tournave. I think in the future

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we're going to have some fun with that. So I

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think there it's still a little bit the accuracy, how

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quickly the data can be utilized, and how many markers

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we can we can start to measure.

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Speaker 1: To the wearables, is that instant information and or is

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it something that posts around You can go back and

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look at like your arcos and looking at your.

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Speaker 2: Stats correct a lot. It's going to be post right son.

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We can download like I have the AURA ring, I

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can download what my activity was for the last few hours.

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It will tell me activity score, stress response, all these

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time of things. It'll give me a heart rate variability score.

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But again it becomes a little too vague for when

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we're talking about a shot by shot basis, So yes,

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and I think it's gonna happen relatively quickly. We'll be

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able to put a marker there that oh I hit

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a drive on number one, I hit a putt on

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number two, and put markers there in real time to

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now look back and go, oh, why did that heart

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rate variability change here? Or why did the EEG go

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a little bit with faster brain waves beta instead of

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lowering humh. Then it's easy to have that conversation about

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the mental game. But yeah, how quickly the data can

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be uploaded is one key thing. And then in real time,

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Like again, if I'm playing in a tournament, I can't

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utilize that technology to improve my golf game, right art goes, Yeah,

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you can put your stats in and all that stuff,

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but you look at it afterwards and look for patterns.

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Right now, we can look for patterns, but it still

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needs to improve a little bit on the second by second.

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Speaker 1: As a golf coach who works with some players at

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the highest level on the on the PGA Tour, can

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a wearable help you and will it get to the

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point where it can help you While you're doing, say

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a practice round with that player and you're there as

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their coach. Can you get that data and say, oh

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that the last shot, we could let's discuss what happened,

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what was going on in your body? Is that doable now?

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Speaker 2: I think it's pretty close. My company Flow Coaching realize

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with a company called Focus Calm, which is a brain wave.

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Speaker 1: He's bending over to pick something up.

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Speaker 2: Yes, picking it up, and so we can then pop

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it on the forehead and measure brain wave activity in

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real time and I can swing with it on. So

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I could go out on the range and use it.

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I could go for a practice round and use it,

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and then it's downloaded to an app and we in

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real time could see a certain score of how we

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call active or stress somebody is, or how focused or

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calm somebody is. We can do that. I think again,

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you're going to get more acceptance of that in the

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future when the technology just gets a little bit quicker

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and easier to translate.

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Speaker 1: And that data is of value to a coach.

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Speaker 2: For me particularly, it is because I know the brainwave

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activity is correlates with somebody who's able to get into

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a flow state or not. Flow state is optimal experience.

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I'm completely immersed in the present moment, I believe I

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can take on this challenge in front of me, and

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the brainwave activity is a lot less. It's a lot lower.

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When somebody is in a highly stressed environment and they're

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more in a fear state, it goes beta waves. They

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get really really thinking a lot and that's harder now

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to perform at our best. Right, we're at our best

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when we're actually thinking less. So when we're now measuring

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brainwave activity, we have some marker. Now we don't know

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what they're thinking. Right, I can still be thinking happy thought,

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but I'm thinking way too many thoughts of the future.

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Oh my god, I'm going to have this trophy of

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my guess that's positive, but probably don't want to be

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thinking about that when I'm trying to make a four

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foot putt. So it's like, where are we focusing on.

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We will want to have less brainwave activity happening during

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the execution of a golf shot, and so we can

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use brain waves to help us understand the state somebody's in,

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like I said, along with heart read variability, and there's

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other you know, not that we could ever do this

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in real time, but blood markers we would want to know,

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like hormone levels coming in cortisol, all these type of

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things that could also, of course affect our state that

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we're in.

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Speaker 1: As Again, as a coach who coaches at the highest level,

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we know what the amateurs go through. We know what

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recreational golfers go through when they step up to the ball.

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The swing thoughts are overwhelming and disabling in many ways.

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But pros who've really grooved their swing, I mean, their

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pinpoint accuracy is remarkable to watch. Are they thinking swing

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mechanics at all? Are they trying to stay mentally healthy

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when they're stepping up to the ball. Where are they

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from your experience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a loaded question. It's like week

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week to week. Yeah, it could be a different answer,

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oh for that player. So confidence has a big part

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of how much I'm thinking. Right, So if I'm playing

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well and I'm practicing well and I'm getting good results,

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there's a higher likelihood that my brain wave activity is

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going to be lower because I do trust what I have. Yet, again,

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it doesn't matter the level of player. When Tuesday, the

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ball's going a little sideway, Wednesday it's going a little sideways,

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they may get into panic mode, like oh, crap. I've

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got to figure out a way to find the fairway, okay,

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And I think everybody's experienced that, so I think it

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player to player. Yes, some players I think are able

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to accept that they don't have their A game and

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they can go out there a little more and go, okay,

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let's just get it around the golf course. Let's try

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to not to force anythings, while other, maybe inexperienced players

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press the panic button because they don't have their A game.

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And so I think it's a little bit of a

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gray area for players is when do they press a

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panic button, which is now I have three swing thoughts,

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or it's like, nope, here's my ballflight. I'm going to

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play with what I got. Let's go round one. Then

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after let's try to figure something out. But I think

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that comes through experience also. But all humans are humans,

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and we will tend to try to fix things with

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thinking and logic and analytical stuff. And if we go

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down that rabbit hole too much, it actually hinders the

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performance even more.

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Speaker 1: Who has more of an impact on confidence And we're

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going to talk a lot about confidence. We have to

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coach or the caddy.

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Speaker 2: That's a great question. I'm gonna. I'm going to say

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before they tee it up on the first hole, it

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would be the coach and then of course, shot by shot,

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the caddy now has a huge role. And I think

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if you work together, that you're now saying the same

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message and there's a consistency of message.

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Speaker 1: Together being the coach and the caddy.

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Speaker 2: Correct yes, that that we're using the same verbiage or

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or how we're going to go through preshot routines in

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a certain way, and it can be similar. But that

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end goal of what is the player need to hear?

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Maybe need is too strong of a word, but how

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do we put them in an optimal state with what

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we say, the questions we ask, and even how we

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react to how a player is going about it. But

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I think part of the coaches is to help them

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prepare for the event, and the caddies there is the

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anchor on a shot by shot basis.

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Speaker 1: M h Okay, now let's get to confidence important, critical

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or yeah it's okay, we talk about loaded questions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I look at because flow in the optical state,

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it starts with focus, so flow follows focus. The only

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way to get into a flow state is to be

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in the present moment. So we always say it starts

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with focus. Yet and next piece of this is somebody

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needs to believe they have the skills to match the

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challenge in front of them. So the belief system is confidence,

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my belief in my ability that I can execute the

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shot in front of me. Okay, now, we can certainly

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talk about what could enhance confidence, what could I do

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in the present moment, which we'll get into in a moment,

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But confidence is a core of it. If I believe

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I can do something, I'm in a much different attitude

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than oh crap, I hate this whole oh my gosh,

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and that's going to create a threat response, which is

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to stress fight or flight. So yes, confidence has a

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lot to do with how we perceive the shot in

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front of us. Can I do it or not? I

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think that's a big question to ask. And if the

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answer is no, I can pick another shot certainly, or

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I go, oh well, let's just try it anyways, and

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then good luck with that. So confidence is a core

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of the mental game. Our belief is very important.

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Speaker 1: How do we convince ourselves? Right? Well, let me finish

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this question in the sense that I was once told

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by a listener, and we've used this all the time.

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Never follow a bad shot with a stupid shot. Yeah, right,

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So how do we get to the point where we're

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standing over the shot going just because I can see

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the flag doesn't mean I can make the shot.

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Speaker 2: So now we're talking about either we're making a decision

355
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based on emotion, like I'm mad or I'm frustrated because

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of the last hole and I need to get it back.

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That's a post shot routine emotional regulation question. The other

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one is somebody who's just ultra aggressive risky. They're ego

359
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gets in the way I'm going to go for that

360
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whole location. Now it sounds like it's confidence, but it

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is it cockiness to the point where that is not

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playing the percentage of course, right, So I think that

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that those are two different things, and I think confidence,

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you know when you said convince ourselves or something like that.

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Of course, we want to get to the point where

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we're not trying to convince ourselves. It's either I believe

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I can do it or I can't. And some of

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that has been with past results. Have you hit the

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shot successfully in the past before the answer is yes, okay,

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at least I can maybe go back into my memories like, yeah,

371
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this is a five arm, I've hit plenty of really

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good fibers. Went oh last week I had that, And

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we can now change the memory. Because most people are

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geared to what they don't want because oh crap, I've

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done this bad on this whole before, we're trying to

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replace a memory with what we've done in the past.

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I think preparation and practice that can build confidence, you know,

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having practice rounds, getting a game plan. All the best

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players in the world do that the moment. A lot

380
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of the research is self talk. What am I saying

381
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to myself three seconds before I hit the shot? That

382
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thought will trigger an emotional response in us. I don't

383
00:20:10,839 --> 00:20:12,799
like this shot. I'm in between clubs. I never do

384
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,519
well with this right And to the outsider, it's like, well,

385
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now the ball's in the fairway, it's one hundred and

386
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,200
thirty five yards. What's their problem? But they're interpreting it

387
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,960
as I don't like hitting three quarter shots. If I

388
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forced this, you don't know what the mental warfare is

389
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going on upstairs. But if the self talk is like, yeah,

390
00:20:29,079 --> 00:20:30,559
I know how to hit a three quarter nine iron,

391
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I go here to hear I've done it before, Let's

392
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do it again. That self talk now can can change

393
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,279
us and it can change our emotions. So visualizing success right,

394
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,400
seeing success before it happens is a way a precursor

395
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for confidence. Right in recovery shots, It's not something we've practiced,

396
00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:49,960
but we hit these unbelievable trouble shots because we see

397
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it so clearly underneath the tree in here, right, It's like,

398
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where'd that come from? Clarity? It came from clarity of

399
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what you wanted to do, and then you allowed yourself

400
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to do it. So confident, I think has many it

401
00:21:01,799 --> 00:21:06,920
has a foundation. But in that moment, in those twenty

402
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,920
seconds before you hit a shot, what am I thinking?

403
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,039
What am I saying to myself? What am I seeing?

404
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Will set the table for our commitment to the shot.

405
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Speaker 1: When you mentioned replace a memory, I frequently will when

406
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I walk up to a tea box and I'm playing

407
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with someone who goes, oh I hate this hole. It

408
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beats me up every time. I always you know that

409
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golf history has nothing to do with your next shot.

410
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:40,960
Do you realize that? I mean like, you're talking yourself

411
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into a real problem here. Don't do that? How well?

412
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Speaker 2: I think is what we're doing is we're trying to

413
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superimpose what is the shot required? So let me give

414
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you an example. If I like to fade the ball

415
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and I come up to a hole that is a

416
00:21:56,279 --> 00:22:00,000
dog leg left. At first, it's like that doesn't match

417
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,839
my eyes fair enough, right, I prefer to hit a fade,

418
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but it's a draw biased type shot. Well, I still

419
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,680
have options. Do I have to hit a draw? Maybe not?

420
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Maybe I hit a three wood to the corner of

421
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the dog leg, so don't have to do anything. Or

422
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I could say, what is the shot required? Actually, it's

423
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just requiring me to hit a driver that I hit

424
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all the time. I am a little more left even

425
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I know that's not correct for a dog leg left,

426
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and I play my natural pattern. I could do that too,

427
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And then would be have I ever hit a draw before?

428
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And I said, well, yeah, I'm not as comfortable though,

429
00:22:35,319 --> 00:22:37,599
but I would remember a time that I've done that.

430
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Have I done it on the range before? Yes? I

431
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:46,319
can now superimpose that memory onto the present shot as

432
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much as I can. It's the same thing like Augusta. Right,

433
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,559
we were fortunate to be at the Master's and there's

434
00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:56,920
number ten requires a draw off the tee. Colin Morrikawa

435
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,920
prefers to hit a fade, so part of preparation was

436
00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:01,960
him hitting a lot of three woods with the draw.

437
00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:05,880
He get that fair way four out of four times. Awesome. Okay,

438
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,240
Now it's not a preference, but we prepared for it

439
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,759
in advance. Thus we have a strategy for it.

440
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Speaker 1: Okay.

441
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,839
Speaker 2: But I think it's also that people are thinking they're

442
00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:19,440
forcing something. Oh I don't like back right whole locations

443
00:23:20,079 --> 00:23:22,480
came at the middle of the green. It's not saying

444
00:23:22,519 --> 00:23:26,079
you have to do anything, but you're right. I think

445
00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:28,359
we get and I know this will sound like a

446
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,720
weird word, but trauma because it does trigger something that

447
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,720
we've done poorly at before. So it reminds us, Oh,

448
00:23:35,839 --> 00:23:38,000
I don't like holes like this because I did blank

449
00:23:38,079 --> 00:23:41,119
on this type of hole yesterday and so intead of

450
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:42,640
flipping it go. Yeah, that might have been just a

451
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,119
poort offswing, had nothing to do with the shot itself.

452
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:49,920
But how do I now shift gears of what is

453
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,440
the shot required? Have I done it before? If not,

454
00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:54,440
I can do a different shot. I can lay up

455
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,160
I could. I think people pigeonhole themselves a little bit too. Much.

456
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But I would also say it's required. H a smooth

457
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,480
little three wood, it's all. It's required. I've done that before,

458
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:09,200
I can do it again. But replacing that initial threat

459
00:24:09,319 --> 00:24:12,000
with what we've done before in a positive way is

460
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what I like to do.

461
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Speaker 1: You just brought up Colin. You did, I didn't, But

462
00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:21,759
now that you did, y Well. When we first spoke,

463
00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:24,839
you were working with Colin, and the next time you weren't,

464
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,079
and now you are again. That's all we need to

465
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,839
talk about as far as that's concerned. But here you

466
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,599
are coaching you know somebody who he was one of

467
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,480
my picks before the Masters started this year, and he

468
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,839
is always one of my picks because I just love

469
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,000
watching this kid play. And he won in San Francisco

470
00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:45,759
and it is you know, it's major during COVID. But

471
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,200
you've been with him since he was a child, right.

472
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Speaker 2: Eight years old? Yes?

473
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Speaker 1: Yeah, Can you share with us some of your greater

474
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:02,079
challenges as a coach with someone since from being an

475
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,400
eight year old to being a high level professional.

476
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,039
Speaker 2: Sure? So, first off, I'm extremely fortunate to have that opportunity,

477
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,640
right so, meeting him as an eight year old and

478
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,559
being with him for twenty years we had a small

479
00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:21,480
little break. But what happens at every level is we

480
00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:25,279
achieve goals, we raise the level again and again, and

481
00:25:25,319 --> 00:25:29,519
sometimes expectations can get in the way of performance. Is

482
00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:32,400
we think we should always fill in the blank, always

483
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,599
break eighty for maybe some of your listeners, maybe win

484
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,720
a major once a year. I mean, they're all different expectations,

485
00:25:39,839 --> 00:25:43,240
and when we don't meet those, there's frustration that incurs. Okay,

486
00:25:43,519 --> 00:25:45,839
So I think the most challenging things working with really

487
00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:49,519
good players is expectation management. And then if we don't

488
00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:52,799
meet those expectations, how do we deal with frustration? How

489
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:55,720
do we deal? And I think Colin and I worked

490
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:57,880
very well together along with his team as caddie, as

491
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,039
putting coach and manager and everything is that we're always

492
00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:03,519
trying to get the old aditor, trying to get a

493
00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:06,559
little better every week. It doesn't always mean that there's

494
00:26:06,599 --> 00:26:08,519
going to be a win at the end of the week.

495
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,319
He would like to It doesn't always mean it's going

496
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,759
to happen, right, And the best example would be in

497
00:26:15,839 --> 00:26:18,599
Maui this year at Kapalua. Right we're at the Century

498
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:21,160
event and we've done a lot of prep. He had

499
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,640
a true offseason, he felt ready, felt refreshed, ready to go.

500
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,359
And I may get this incorrect, but I think he

501
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,200
shot thirty one under par for the four rounds. Okay,

502
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,240
it's the fourth lowest score in PGA Tour history. But

503
00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:37,519
he lost to Hideki Matsayama, who had the lowest score

504
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,039
in PGA Tour history. So what do we take away

505
00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:44,759
from that week? We lost? Or did we play really well?

506
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:46,880
I mean, and that's the torn part is that we

507
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,359
are assess based on wins, and I get that wholeheartedly.

508
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,720
Yet are we getting better or not? And I think

509
00:26:54,759 --> 00:26:59,480
that's the fine line that this game it's tough, and

510
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,519
then even when you're playing really well, it's tough to win.

511
00:27:01,799 --> 00:27:03,559
And then if you win, then people are expecting you

512
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,519
to do it more often. It becomes a vicious circle. So,

513
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:10,799
you know, I'm proud that you know, Colin works real hard,

514
00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:14,319
he's moving forward, he's had it. You know, this is

515
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,559
where we're taping it. Here is still first quarter of

516
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:20,400
twenty twenty five, and he's had a good, solid start

517
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,720
of his year and very optimistic that it's going to continue.

518
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,519
So that's the biggest thing is expectation management.

519
00:27:28,319 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: That's fascinating. You know, you talk about he shoots thirty

520
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,559
one under and gets beat And one thing that you know,

521
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,039
recreational golfers have to realize, these guys are not going, oh,

522
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,440
you got to give me three strokes, right. They don't

523
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,200
play with an index on the tour, right, these guys

524
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,119
are like, we all count every single shot and we'll

525
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,799
see what happens at the end. There's no strokes given here,

526
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:59,519
but expectation management on that level where we again, as

527
00:27:59,599 --> 00:28:03,240
amateur recreational golfers, even if we're club you know, playing

528
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:08,759
for club championships, we're not as good in expectation management.

529
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:11,359
I'm sure you've worked with a lot of people who

530
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,279
you have to like tamp that down.

531
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,759
Speaker 2: Yes, And yet I think it's the nature of just

532
00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:20,920
golf in and of itself, right, Okay, a lot of

533
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,039
our play, a lot of the listeners here have broken

534
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:25,200
a hundred. Well, then they expect to break a hundred

535
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,519
all the time, and then ninety, and it just keeps

536
00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:30,039
ratcheting it up. So once you've done it a few times,

537
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,119
you have a new expectation. Totally get it. That makes sense.

538
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,359
The problem is is that there's so many variables in

539
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,200
performance with golf is that if we just looked at

540
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,599
the score alone and say, oh my gosh, I shot

541
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,880
eighty one. I didn't break eighty how to and you

542
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,720
forgot you made a quad on one hole where you

543
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:48,799
got a bad bounce off of this that you know,

544
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:50,480
It's like, we have to put it in perspective a

545
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,000
little bit. But it's interesting. I don't work with as

546
00:28:55,039 --> 00:28:59,599
many amateurs as I used to, but giving a golf

547
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,759
school weeks ago, and we had a player who had

548
00:29:02,759 --> 00:29:07,640
never broken ninety before, okay, and he hit a shot

549
00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:10,440
and hit a drive about one hundred and eighty yards

550
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,440
down the middle, and we're going, oh my gosh, and

551
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,599
he goes, Rick, I just want to do that every time. Now,

552
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,720
for everybody out there, one hundred and eighty yards is

553
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,559
not a huge shot. I get that, and he hit that.

554
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,640
But here's somebody who struggles with keeping it in the

555
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,680
same zip code. But now once he hits a good shot,

556
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,559
he says, oh, I just want that every time. He's like,

557
00:29:28,599 --> 00:29:31,039
come on, how about we shoot for four out of

558
00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:33,960
ten right now? Right? It's just what we get the

559
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,400
taste of success in this game, and it just brings

560
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,079
us in. It's like, well, Rick, I just did it.

561
00:29:39,079 --> 00:29:41,119
I should do that every time I go. We're not robots.

562
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,960
We're not. And so that's where I don't care what

563
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,279
level we have, this disassociated of what should happen, right,

564
00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:52,079
which is an expectation. I should do that more often.

565
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,359
I should I get that, but holy smokes, it is

566
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,519
making the game very frustrating because we were probably not

567
00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:02,880
going to meet those expectations. So now how do you

568
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,920
deal with that? And then we have all that other stuff.

569
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,279
But I actually try to use stats for diameters too.

570
00:30:08,279 --> 00:30:10,960
It's like, let's say the old adage of what's a

571
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,839
PGA tour make rate from roughly eight feet? It's right,

572
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,960
roughly right. So this person's getting mad because they didn't

573
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,440
make an eight footer. I'm like, well, the best players

574
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,359
in the world, it's flip a coin, okay, and yet

575
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,240
you think you should do it three out of four times.

576
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,680
It's like wait time out here, okay. So I think

577
00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:33,799
stats is what's been been very useful for expectation management

578
00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:36,119
on a shot by shot basis. But I think again,

579
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,599
once we taste some success, we think, well, I've got it.

580
00:30:39,759 --> 00:30:41,920
I said, well, I don't know if you've got it.

581
00:30:42,039 --> 00:30:45,000
You tapped into it. Now can we get it more often?

582
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: Taste it?

583
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,559
Speaker 2: You've tasted it, right, So I think it's a challenge

584
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:50,119
for all of us golfers.

585
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: No question about it. But when you say we're not robots,

586
00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:58,000
let's remember that there's a golf ball in between all

587
00:30:58,039 --> 00:31:01,720
of this. And even the robots don't hit the exact

588
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:04,519
same shot every single time. It's not like you're looking

589
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:06,920
at a dispersion rate of a robot, you know, would

590
00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:10,440
iron byron. You're not going to see the ball landing

591
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,480
within a yard of each other every single time. Correct.

592
00:31:14,599 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: I mean, we've got wind direction, we've got how the

593
00:31:17,119 --> 00:31:20,079
you know, we've got water on the face of the

594
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:22,519
club and then the ball. I mean, yes, we can

595
00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:26,799
do it as close position conditions as possible to minimize variables.

596
00:31:27,519 --> 00:31:31,920
But golf is in a randomized environment with all kinds

597
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,599
of variables. So I think it's people are very unfair

598
00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:38,079
to themselves. Again, thinking they can do the same thing

599
00:31:38,279 --> 00:31:40,839
over and over and over again when they can't control

600
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:42,799
all those variables.

601
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:49,519
Speaker 1: Is the lesson of the story.

602
00:31:49,559 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: Stop thinking, it's when to think and what are you

603
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,119
thinking about? Right?

604
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:55,839
Speaker 1: Okay?

605
00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 2: If I am with doing a playing lesson and we

606
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,119
walk up to a second shot on a par four,

607
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,759
I hope somebody's thinking about the lie and the wind

608
00:32:05,799 --> 00:32:07,880
and the yardage and how firm the green is and

609
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,200
where the whole location is, and I hope they're thinking

610
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,319
about those things to make a proper decision. Once we

611
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:16,359
make a decision, which is still analytical and still kind

612
00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:18,920
of going, Okay, I'm going to hit a nine iron

613
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,920
and I'm going to aim at fifteen feet left of

614
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,480
the hall, I'm still thinking I'm creating an intention. Once

615
00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:26,480
I get over the shot is when we start to

616
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,799
wine down that thinking pattern, and we would want the

617
00:32:30,839 --> 00:32:33,440
thinking to go to more of a creative side of

618
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,720
either a visualization or a feel, and back to I

619
00:32:36,759 --> 00:32:39,559
want to be athletic, is what people say. Right, Well,

620
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,960
I've now turned down the thoughts and my thought maybe

621
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:48,160
just target. It may be just the feel of hitting

622
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,319
a cut. It may be so I've minimized the thinking. Okay,

623
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,880
I think it's very difficult to tell people not to think,

624
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,160
but I think we've funneled it down to a lot

625
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,200
of thoughts, down to very few by the time we're

626
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,039
executing the shot.

627
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: Earlier in the conversation, you said, is tech being overused?

628
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,759
We can talk about that later. It's time. Is tech

629
00:33:11,839 --> 00:33:12,720
being overused?

630
00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 2: Short answer is yes, because and you know, golfers there's

631
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,359
the most passionate sportsmen will call it because they get

632
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:24,720
hooked into all the equipment.

633
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: They love it.

634
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: They're watching their players on TV. They go play the

635
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,400
same course as their players play. They're really connected to

636
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,720
the sport. Right. We golf nuts, right, That's why we

637
00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:35,640
call them golf nuts, right. And I think part of

638
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,079
that is that they've got wrapped into what's happening in

639
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:41,920
our coaching industry is that because we can measure it,

640
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,119
it's useful. So let's measure our the force plates and

641
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,200
where our ground forces, and let's measure that, did your

642
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,319
spin rate go to twenty five hundred or twenty seven

643
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:56,279
hundred with your driver? And it's all really cool. It is. Okay, Yet,

644
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,880
how useful is the information to that fifteen handicap? And

645
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,480
I would argue it's very little for them to hit

646
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,160
a golf shot. The coach needs to do a better

647
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,679
job of filtering the information. So they don't show them

648
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:13,480
all the information. They just say, hey, now that we

649
00:34:13,559 --> 00:34:16,440
got kind of your fingerprint of your swing, this is

650
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,079
what we're going to work on. And we get the

651
00:34:18,119 --> 00:34:20,599
player to be very specific on one thing at a time,

652
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,440
then we're fine. But we have a lot of people

653
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,320
who are downloading the apps on their own phone. They

654
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,480
have simulators in their basements now, and they're seeing all

655
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,760
this stuff. They don't know what they're looking at, you know,

656
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,519
And then it's the analysis paralysis idea. So the technology's cool,

657
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,000
they overthink it. They see something on Instagram. I got

658
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,199
to do this, and they're down so many rabbit holes

659
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:45,920
and it's hard for them to come out.

660
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,119
Speaker 1: Again. You brought it up. I had my notes to

661
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,559
bring it up, but you brought it up. Simulators. I

662
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,320
there's a lot of people playing on simulator golf now

663
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,519
and I think it got a huge booth this year

664
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:06,440
with TGL yes and dealing with and watching Colin have

665
00:35:06,519 --> 00:35:09,320
a blast with that. And one of my favorite parts

666
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,199
of TGL was listening to these guys not only give

667
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,320
each other a hard time and play with each other,

668
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:23,360
but the strategy involved. Right of simulator golf, But where's

669
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,559
the mental game and simulator golf?

670
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,199
Speaker 2: Great question, I still think because performance matters, and because

671
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,119
that the result is ultimately they want to hit a close,

672
00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:35,599
they want to make a birdie, they want to win.

673
00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:38,880
The whole performance is always at the core. So now

674
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,800
what are they focusing on, what are they thinking about,

675
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,400
what are they feeling emotionally? I know talking to Colin,

676
00:35:45,639 --> 00:35:49,159
he really enjoyed the TGL experience, especially in see with

677
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,400
that stadium right and does your heart pump a little

678
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,920
different than even the first team maybe and.

679
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 1: Celebrat and you get the shot clock ticking off on

680
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,519
your start pounding got way.

681
00:36:00,559 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 2: I'm not used to seeing a clock right in front

682
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,119
of me and I have to And now you see

683
00:36:04,119 --> 00:36:06,199
them change how they're feel So I think it's the

684
00:36:06,199 --> 00:36:10,239
mental game of that is still the same, maybe different.

685
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,360
Like you said, the shot clocks in their face, they're

686
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,199
working in a team environment, They're working on environments like

687
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,119
an artificial green, like I'm not totally comfortable with this

688
00:36:19,519 --> 00:36:21,920
because this is different than what I play on and

689
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,960
then hitting into a screen depth perception. I mean, there's

690
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,440
things that they're trying to process that is very mental.

691
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:31,239
And I think simulators are here to stay, and I

692
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,400
think it's a good thing. I've coached on simulators. I

693
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,079
think the technology is getting better and better where I

694
00:36:38,119 --> 00:36:42,239
can actually change environments. I can put different wind patterns on.

695
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,000
I can put people in stressful situation in a simulator

696
00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:48,000
and help with those interventions, help them hit shots that

697
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,840
it's like, yeah, you're going to take this out when

698
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,760
you go play that dog leg left, Let's do it

699
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,719
on the simulator first. So I think it's really cool

700
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,559
that it's growing. It's having people have a golf club

701
00:36:58,559 --> 00:37:01,559
in their hand even more different situations, which to me

702
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,800
is the old adage growing the game.

703
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what do you want to see out of

704
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,719
tg L? Do you want to I mean it seemed

705
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,440
to be a successful first season. It was a lot

706
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,280
of fun for the viewers. It seemed like it was

707
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,440
a ton of fun for the players. I think there

708
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:17,239
are you a future?

709
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,199
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a huge future and I know

710
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,000
nothing inside information. I think, of course they're looking to

711
00:37:24,039 --> 00:37:27,039
grow and I think, you know, do you bring an

712
00:37:27,159 --> 00:37:30,679
LPGA team on? Do you do you put in celebrities?

713
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,079
Do you put I don't know if they'll go down that.

714
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,519
Speaker 1: Co ed co ed team totally right, right.

715
00:37:36,079 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: So we're trying to get more eyeballs on golf for

716
00:37:38,039 --> 00:37:40,199
trying to get the younger generation. So now, how do

717
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,719
you bring do you bring influencers in? I don't know that.

718
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,239
The actual competition I think is pretty solid. I think

719
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,960
even in the in the season with the hammer and

720
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,199
stuff like that, they made adjustments, so I think there'll

721
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,880
be some adjustments there. It'll be interesting what kind of

722
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,440
simulator courses they'll use. Do you use now of course

723
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,119
that people are familiar with, or do you make it

724
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,280
just computer based or do you put them on pebble

725
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,840
b shue. I don't know. So I think there's there's

726
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,280
some cool stuff. I like the entertainment value, I like

727
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,679
them getting outside of their shell and the personality coming out.

728
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,480
I think they'll feel more comfortable with that moving forward.

729
00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:16,880
But again it's more eyeballs on golf.

730
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had Aggie pis On, who is one of

731
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:25,039
the three architects who designed courses for TGL, which was,

732
00:38:26,519 --> 00:38:30,760
you know, fascinating because one of the great elements of

733
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,960
golf is that like we get to play the course

734
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,519
that they get to play. Not really, but you know,

735
00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:41,000
there's a couple of courses we get to play that

736
00:38:41,079 --> 00:38:43,400
they get to play. But here is something that's a

737
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,880
complete challenge to these guys, only to the hand picked

738
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,119
few who are the best in the world. They get,

739
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,079
you know, get to play these unique holes. I loved

740
00:38:57,119 --> 00:38:58,280
that element of it.

741
00:38:58,599 --> 00:39:01,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's there's there's a novelty to it. I

742
00:39:01,199 --> 00:39:03,119
was like, Wow, I've never seen something like that before.

743
00:39:03,159 --> 00:39:04,559
And then how are they going to deal with it?

744
00:39:04,599 --> 00:39:08,400
And I think it is pretty cool. Maybe they throw

745
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,760
in one hole that everybody knows about, right, and I

746
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,599
think the familiarity, like we see with Augusta, is that

747
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,320
everybody knows what to expect from the Masters. It's the

748
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,360
same course, the same environment, you have those memories and

749
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,599
stuff like that. I think there's something to be said

750
00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:25,280
on that. Yet, if we're talking technology, we're creating new

751
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,159
golf courses and the creativity part of that I think

752
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:29,239
is really cool too.

753
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,159
Speaker 1: One of the elements that I did truly love about

754
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:37,440
it was like, Tiger cannot walk seventy two holes anymore.

755
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,880
It's pretty obvious that he'll never be able to. Even

756
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,280
if he does, he's not going to be that competitive.

757
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,800
You know. They've left him behind on that and it's

758
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:51,599
exhausting for him physically and emotionally and mentally. But with

759
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,960
tgl oh, the seniors can really play the game now, right,

760
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,760
if they can get used to the idea of hitting

761
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,159
into a screen thirty five yards away. I think bringing

762
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,880
seniors in, I'd love to I'd love to see call

763
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,559
and play against you. I'd like to see these guys,

764
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,079
a team of players and their coaches playing against each other.

765
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 2: I got to talk to my agent on that one,

766
00:40:13,199 --> 00:40:15,039
and I think that's the fun part is like you

767
00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:17,119
and I play golf, and a lot of why we

768
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,320
play golf is the camaraderie. Our friends are the trash

769
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,400
talking with dad, and I think if you bring that

770
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,599
to this and yes, you're bringing a coach, a caddie,

771
00:40:26,599 --> 00:40:30,159
a whatever, you know that it's kind of like what

772
00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:32,480
you would be doing on your Saturday morning, you know,

773
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,440
and you're throwing down ex show. I'm going to press

774
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,079
you on this and all that kind of stuff. That

775
00:40:37,159 --> 00:40:39,519
kind of terminology people get and they want to see

776
00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:42,239
the best players being able to do that too.

777
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So I cannot let you go without giving

778
00:40:45,599 --> 00:40:47,840
us an update on what's going on with flow code.

779
00:40:48,199 --> 00:40:49,159
Speaker 2: Oh thank you. Yes.

780
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 1: So.

781
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 2: Flow code theflow code dot com a company that I

782
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,039
started about six years ago, and it's basically tools, frameworks,

783
00:40:57,039 --> 00:40:59,199
and strategies to help somebody go from a fear state

784
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,480
to a flow state. We have online, we have an app.

785
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:04,920
We work with a lot of golf academies and golf

786
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,519
coaches to be their official mental game partner. We have

787
00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:10,599
a junior academy. We do a lot of live events.

788
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:13,239
I was fortunate to go to China and Thailand and

789
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,280
Denmark and Slovenia last year, and we got some more

790
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,519
world travel going on this year. So it's really cool

791
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,719
to get the mental game out there for all those players.

792
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: Is flow Code gonna end up with a simulator? Are

793
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,119
we going to be on the golf course?

794
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,119
Speaker 2: We'll see, We'll see. There's some stuff we're talking about.

795
00:41:32,039 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: Well, again, I want to thank you because you were

796
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,599
a big part of what I wanted the celebration of

797
00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:41,679
a thousand episodes to be of Golf Smarter because you've

798
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,920
been How do I explain how I feel about what

799
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,400
you've taught us in the times that you've been with us.

800
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,920
It's been remarkable, and your passion for it and your

801
00:41:53,039 --> 00:41:56,840
understanding and your ability to articulate it has just made

802
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,119
it so important to me to get you back. So

803
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:00,000
thank you for coming back.

804
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 2: Thank you Fred, and thanks for spreading the word on

805
00:42:02,559 --> 00:42:03,159
the Metal game