WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:41.520 Weird Being Way Media. 2 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:48.719 Welcome to episode one hundred and fifty one of the 3 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:52.320 Filmiamentories podcast. This is Me as usual, Jamie Benning here 4 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:55.320 sitting in my little office at home with just my 5 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:58.719 laptop and my microphone. And in this episode I chat 6 00:00:58.759 --> 00:01:02.960 with model maker, VFX supervisor and filmmaker Ian Hunter, a 7 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:05.599 legend in the industry, about his career that spans some 8 00:01:05.640 --> 00:01:08.640 of the most technically ambitious and visually inventive films ever made. 9 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:12.760 From the flooded reactor tanks of James Cameron's The Abyss 10 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:16.159 to the surface of Mars in total recall. Ian grew 11 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:19.040 up in Monrovia, California, and his parents would give him 12 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:21.040 and his brother's model kits just to get them out 13 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:24.640 of their hair, and inavertently launched at least one of 14 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:28.120 those kids into a forty year career in Hollywood. We 15 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:31.040 hear about stealing his dad's German black velvet to make 16 00:01:31.079 --> 00:01:33.680 a starfield in the garden shed after seeing Star Wars, 17 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:37.159 making Super eight movies in high school, and the genuinely 18 00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:40.120 draw dropping story of walking into a Wells Fargo bank 19 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:43.439 to fake Robert for a school film and coming face 20 00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:48.040 to face with a relation of another Hollywood legend. Ian 21 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:50.840 talks about drifting away from an aerospace path at cow 22 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:54.000 poly Pomona and stumbling into the movie business fire a 23 00:01:54.040 --> 00:01:58.480 classified ad, swapping one job involving plastics, chemicals, and toxic 24 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:02.000 fumes for another, Landing on the ABYSS, working under the 25 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:06.040 mentorship of the legendary model supervisor Mark Stets and the 26 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:09.000 Boss Films, and the long road that would eventually take 27 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:13.360 him to some of cinema's most celebrated practical effects sequences. 28 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:17.960 It's been a long time coming this interview. I've been 29 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:19.759 wanting to talk to Ian for some time now, and 30 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:21.840 I'm really glad that we did it. It's such a 31 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:23.960 cool guy to speak to. He's got a great attitude, 32 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:27.759 he's very articulate. I think you're going to enjoy this one. 33 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:31.360 So sit back, make a cup of tea, and here's 34 00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:34.520 my interview with Ian Hunter, and I'll be back at 35 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:35.719 the end for a bit more jabbering on. 36 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:54.080 Ian. 37 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:56.479 Thanks so much for joining me. It's a pleasure to 38 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:56.960 have you here. 39 00:02:58.039 --> 00:02:59.879 I always like to ask people like where it all 40 00:02:59.879 --> 00:03:02.479 be a I mean, were you building stuff as a kid, 41 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:05.479 and do you remember the first time that you built something? 42 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:07.080 And it really kind of clicked for you. 43 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:12.280 Yeah. I was very fortunate looking back that I had 44 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:16.479 parents who were artists. My father especially was an artist 45 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:20.400 who was a trained interior decorator. He was a musician. 46 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:25.039 He painted in oils and acrylics, he did pastel portraits. 47 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:27.719 And I had two older brothers, and so he always 48 00:03:27.800 --> 00:03:31.280 encouraged us to do art and gave us things to 49 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:34.639 do project wise, and I think at some point, which 50 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:38.800 was very formative later on in my career, was we 51 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:40.919 were doing art. I have these brothers who I always 52 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:44.240 wanted to stick with them to do these hobbies. At 53 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.919 some point my father gave us all model kits to build, 54 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:49.599 and I think that was mainly to get us out 55 00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:54.000 of his hair. So I took to the model building 56 00:03:55.360 --> 00:03:59.719 right away at a very young age, and then encouraged 57 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:02.560 to do drawing and building our you know stuff on 58 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:05.080 her own. We're always you know, told, you know, to 59 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:07.199 go out and play and you know, make things. And 60 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.960 we'd steal my dad's paint STERI sticks and make Roman 61 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:14.759 swords and stuff like that. And and then eventually he 62 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:19.199 used to paint black velvet paintings, these beautiful black velvet paintings, 63 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:23.079 not concase it ors fighting bulls, but usually like the 64 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:25.639 head of Christ. That was his favorite thing was Maxiwan 65 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:30.279 Seatau dying in Agony and and so so he had 66 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:34.319 this expensive black velvet, and my my brother's older brothers 67 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:36.800 and I watched Star Wars and one of them said, 68 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:40.519 you know, I'm gonna do my own space opera. So 69 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:43.079 we built some spaceship models and then we got my 70 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.879 dad's really expensive German black velvet, hung it in the 71 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:49.560 garden shed and punched holes in it and backled it 72 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:53.199 to be a starfield. So it was a beautiful starfield, 73 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:55.959 but it was useless to do any more painting on. 74 00:04:56.079 --> 00:05:00.839 But but my father and my mother likes saw that 75 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:05.399 we had, you know, potential in terms of being creative kids, 76 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:08.199 and sort of forgave us for ruining everything that they 77 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:12.560 gave us. But yeah, that was the best thing, was 78 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:16.079 to have a set of parents who were understanding and 79 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:20.560 encouraging and kind of dropped us on. Yeah. 80 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:22.720 I often sort of talk about how I think we're 81 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:27.360 kids are all instinctively kind of creative and sometimes destructive, 82 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:30.560 but then you learn about creating as well through that, 83 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:33.759 I think, But sometimes that's kind of sort of bash 84 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:36.959 out of us in school, particularly in secondary school, where 85 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:39.800 people start to hone in what your skills are and 86 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:42.399 what you need to do to achieve a career, and 87 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:47.240 often the arts aren't kind of a popular choice in schools. 88 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:49.839 It certainly wasn't the choice in my school particularly. Did 89 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:51.800 you find that as you went, as you grew older, 90 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:53.839 as you went to high school, that you were able 91 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:57.360 to kind of continue these these hobbies and and sort 92 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:00.439 of start to form them in your head in a 93 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:02.680 way that could be an actual career in the future. 94 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:06.680 Well, funny enough, I also had a great interest in 95 00:06:07.319 --> 00:06:11.319 aerospace aviation, so I always thought, you know, I took 96 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:14.480 this sort of more advanced classes when I when I 97 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:19.959 was going through it would be elementary school. Here. I 98 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:22.240 took some tests and they're like, oh, these are IQ tests, 99 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:24.480 aren't they? Like, yes, they are. So I was I 100 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:27.279 was sort of pushed into the more advanced classes, and 101 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:30.279 I thought I was going to go into aerospace more 102 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:33.759 but near the end of that. So it sort of 103 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:36.120 makes sense because you know, visual effects, you're doing a 104 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.040 lot of sort of on the fly engineering and things, 105 00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:43.920 but aerospace would have been much more formative or restrictive. 106 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:46.600 But one thing it did happen, which I thought was 107 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:50.839 very funny, is for extra credit in some of these classes, 108 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:53.839 we would make Super eight movies. That's how far back 109 00:06:53.879 --> 00:07:00.199 I'm going on Super eight film. And and so the 110 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.360 teachers at our school also encouraged us to be creative, 111 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:04.920 to like, you know, throw these things in there. So 112 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:07.160 it was it was great growing up. I grew up 113 00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:10.360 in Monrovia, California, and it was great because not only 114 00:07:10.399 --> 00:07:12.959 were my parents supportive, but once we got to school, 115 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:17.040 they were supportive also to let us do these things. 116 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:23.360 And one interesting moment was this also affected my later 117 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:26.560 desire to get into the movie business. Was we were 118 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:29.319 making a movie trying to explain the Fourth Amendment of 119 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:32.519 the Constitution of the United States, which is unlawful search 120 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:36.800 and seizure. And so we went to We're high school kids, 121 00:07:36.800 --> 00:07:38.600 you know, pimply faced high school kids, and we went 122 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:44.360 to the local Wells Fargo bank in Monrovia, and we 123 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:46.639 were going to rob the bank that was part of 124 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:49.639 the Super eight movie. And so we show up there 125 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:52.000 and I said, you know, guys, we should probably tell 126 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:54.759 them that we're just high school students and we're faking 127 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:58.399 robbing the bank, not actually robbing the bank. They said, 128 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:00.160 do you think that'd be a problem. They said, yeah, 129 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:02.959 it could be a problem. They might not take ninely 130 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:05.519 to us attempting to rob the bank, even though we're 131 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:12.600 simulating it. So we go into the Wells Fargo and 132 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:14.160 we go up to the teller and I'm of course 133 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:16.240 they push me up because I'm the oldest looking one, 134 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:19.240 and they say. I say to her, Hi, we're from 135 00:08:19.240 --> 00:08:21.879 the high school. We're making a little movie, super eight movie, 136 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:24.800 and we're simulating a bank robbery, and so we just 137 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:26.720 want to know if we have permission to rob your bank. 138 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:32.480 And she gets all very weirded out, nervous and shakingly, 139 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:36.159 grabs the phone and calls somebody, and then she says, 140 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:39.320 the vice president of the bank's going to come over 141 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:41.240 and talk to you. Like okay, So we all walk 142 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:45.440 over to her in a big cluster of nervous looking 143 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:48.360 kids looking down at the ground, and this woman comes 144 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:51.600 up who is super excited. She's an older woman with 145 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:54.080 glasses in her hair up and she's super excited. She's like, 146 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.639 are you from the high school? Yeah, you guys are 147 00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:59.639 making a movie, like absolutely, yeah, yeah, what do you 148 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:01.360 want to do? Well, we want to fake like we're 149 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:03.879 robbing the bank. Oh that sounds really fun. Like she's 150 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:09.879 enthusiastic about the whole thing. And I said, yeah, do 151 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:11.960 you mind? He says, oh, no, I love. I love 152 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:14.320 when kids make movies. You know, my son makes movies. 153 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.039 I said, really, who's your son? And she said, oh, 154 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.720 my son's Rick Baker. He does make up effects. 155 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:21.519 And no way. 156 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:25.960 And I was so on the floor. Come on, it 157 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:28.919 was a hero of mine. Still A yeah, of course, 158 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:32.440 so amazing. Uh, you know, you know, going from mom 159 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:35.720 to the teachers. Now even the bank vice president of 160 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:38.759 Wells Spargo encourages us to make movies. So that was 161 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:41.159 a that was a great moment. We got extra credit 162 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:41.679 and everything. 163 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:43.360 That is crazy. 164 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.440 I mean, what are the odds of those of your 165 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:48.120 world crashing into. 166 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:51.440 I mean, that's just bizarre, isn't it. 167 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:54.840 But how wonderful that it all started to link up 168 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:56.759 for you at this point. It sounds like you know, 169 00:09:56.840 --> 00:09:59.120 you've you've been through the kind of Star Wars phage 170 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:01.559 and now into you make can your movies and making 171 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:02.360 it on Super eight. 172 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.360 You know, it's such a great way because. 173 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:07.879 You've got the camera in your hand, you're responsible for 174 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:10.039 the film, you've got to get it developed, so there's 175 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:12.960 time to sort of percolate as well while you're waiting 176 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:14.720 for it to be developed. Then when you get it back, 177 00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:16.799 you've got to edit it yourself, if you want to 178 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:18.639 do that, or were you just doing it all in camera? 179 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:21.600 We were trying to do in camera, but also when 180 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:24.159 we came when it came back, of course, for the lasers, 181 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:28.399 we had to get in there with magnifying glass and 182 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:36.279 a pin and you know, scratch the scratch the image. 183 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:38.600 And then we were doing things like we knew that 184 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:43.440 if you overamped electric resistors, like if you had like 185 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:47.360 a you know, say a twelve old resistor and you 186 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:51.120 you end it with house current, it would explode. So 187 00:10:51.200 --> 00:10:56.679 we would often do our explosions by literally shooting resistors 188 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:00.559 exploding and giving us, you know, explosions. I'm black that 189 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:06.159 we could can't be it was it was, yeah, we 190 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:08.279 were really trying anything we could just to make these 191 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:08.840 things better. 192 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:13.000 Yeah, I mean that approach of being well, that sort 193 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.720 of linear destructive approach and that nature of film having 194 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:17.559 to you know, scratch it. 195 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:20.000 On the film. Oh that scratch wasn't a great scratch. 196 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:23.039 Well, we're stuck with it now, and I mean, it's 197 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.080 it's kind of a great discipline and a great way 198 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:25.480 to start. 199 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:28.240 But I imagine, I'm sure we'll talk about it later 200 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:28.879 when we get there. 201 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:32.559 But I imagine in many ways, you do things in 202 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:34.759 reverse in the real world. You you sort of designed 203 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:37.840 the shot first and then reverse engineer, whereas you know, 204 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:39.759 when you're starting out, of course, you just you're just 205 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:43.360 using whatever you've got and you're you're sort of making 206 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:46.000 it up on the fly. But did did you did 207 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:49.279 that connection to to Rick go any further? 208 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:54.440 Not until years and years later. I mean we we 209 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:58.360 would work on movies that he worked on, but never together. 210 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:04.039 My specialty was miniatures and it went off that direction 211 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:08.879 and you know business of course creature effects. So yeah, 212 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.080 well we worked on the same films, but but not 213 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.720 not directly. The only in fact, the time when it 214 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:19.799 finally happened was you know, Rick sort of retired and 215 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:23.080 he and he closed down his studio and I still 216 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:26.679 had a studio in Silmar, California at the time, so 217 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.639 we needed a forklift, so went over and bought his forklift. 218 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:33.320 So for a while I was using his forklift. That's 219 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:35.720 hopefully some magic was coming off of that. 220 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:39.200 Did you ever have the opportunity to say you met 221 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:39.879 his mum once? 222 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:45.440 Oh? Absolutely, I took care to tell them the whole story. 223 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:49.879 Something else. I hate going off on a tagent about Rick. 224 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.519 But years ago this also sort of got me into 225 00:12:52.519 --> 00:12:55.039 the business. Was or or drove me to be in 226 00:12:55.039 --> 00:13:00.879 the business. Was There was a moving museum exhibit of 227 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:06.080 special effects that was at our local Los Angeles Museum 228 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:08.440 of Science and Industry, and it traveled around the country 229 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:12.399 and they had different displayed models. They had some stuff 230 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:18.240 from Masters of the Universe, and they had the makeups 231 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:21.120 from Masters Universe. And the other thing that really impressed 232 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.480 me was a matte painting from the Birds that Albert 233 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:26.759 Whitlock had done, and it was nice, very small. My 234 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:28.519 dad had been a painter, so to look at that 235 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:32.360 and sort of see what the approach he took. He 236 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:36.080 actually painted the it in different focuses, so where the 237 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:38.399 where the live action was going to be composited in 238 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:41.120 that was in focus, but as you got further back 239 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:45.879 it got softer and more out of focus. H and 240 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.840 just amazing stuff. And so I'm looking at the makeups 241 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:52.200 for Masters Universe and they were nice, and I'm not 242 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:58.120 you know, I'm not gonna knock them, but but they 243 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:03.039 looked like makeups you would find in a in a movie. Yeah. 244 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:06.279 And then sort of often a corner in the dark, 245 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:10.240 like not really part of the central display was a case, 246 00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:12.720 and I'm like, what is in there? So I walked 247 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:14.480 over the case and it was the back was to 248 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:17.360 us as we walked up, and I came around the 249 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:21.440 corner and in the case was Rick Baker's head from 250 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:27.639 American Werewolf in London. And this didn't look like a makeup. 251 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:30.759 This looked like a taxidermied animal. I mean the quality 252 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:36.799 that the difference between what had gone into making this 253 00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:42.759 rubber monster with yak hair or whatever look real and 254 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:47.000 look believable and look, you know, even static look frightening. 255 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:50.679 Just there's just the the world of difference in terms 256 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:55.840 of of of the input of the artist to you know, 257 00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:58.360 to create this piece. I mean, he get you know, 258 00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:01.360 used the same techniques, use this same you know methods 259 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:03.519 a lot of times you use the same people. But 260 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:08.039 the but the quality, the sort of personal input that 261 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:13.159 he put exhibited and that well really impressed me. And 262 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:17.159 it was the kind of thing that my father, growing 263 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:19.559 up again with my brothers. You know, we're all artists. 264 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.200 You know. He always said that you should be your 265 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:25.919 own worst critic. Like other people will tell you how 266 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:29.960 bad you are. But if you're harder on yourself, if 267 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.759 you if you strive to like do better the next 268 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:36.519 time than you did the last time, you know, no 269 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:38.559 one can get to you because you're always going to 270 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:42.639 be judging your own work and trying to to do better. 271 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:44.960 And so I I was just so impressed by his 272 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:49.399 work and always wanted to sort of like know that 273 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:51.639 if I'm going to make the effort, I might as 274 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:54.559 well try to put the best effort out and and 275 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:57.960 and have something that's gonna, you know, sort of last 276 00:15:58.120 --> 00:15:59.120 if you will. 277 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:02.519 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Now that is an amazing sequence 278 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:05.240 in that movie. I mean, it sort of still scares 279 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:06.679 me to this day. I think I've talked about it 280 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:09.759 before on this podcast, but I watched it in circumstances 281 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:11.559 where I shouldn't have been watching it as a kid. 282 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:13.960 I'd me and my sister had recorded it off the TV. 283 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:15.799 My dad was out washing the car, so there was 284 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.080 like this double scariness, double jeopardy going on. 285 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:19.360 But what. 286 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.840 Was the kind of shift from Okay, so this could 287 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:26.519 be a career. Then, and how did you go and 288 00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:28.000 finally enter the industry. 289 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:31.480 Well, so I remember back I wanted to be an 290 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:37.240 aerospace guy. So I yeah, actually attended cal poly Pomona, 291 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:43.639 which is a technical school in lot in California, and 292 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:48.039 was taking aerospace and long and short of it was, 293 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.279 I ended up dropping out of school. I had financial difficulties, 294 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.440 I had difficulty getting my core classes, and so it 295 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:01.600 was just not really working out. Attended for about a 296 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:03.639 year and a half, but it but it wasn't working out. 297 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.319 And this is the this is the funniest thing, because 298 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:09.480 so I never thought I'd actually be able to get 299 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.240 into the business. But I was working at a place 300 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:19.640 where I was making out of plastic acid baths. If 301 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:25.920 you imagine, you know, you're doing photochemical etching on circuit boards, okay, 302 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:33.440 and that acid has to go into a chemical resistant bath. 303 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.680 So the tubs that we that they're made from polyethylene plastics. 304 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:42.599 So I'm working in plastics, I'm working in chemicals. I'm 305 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:47.039 working and like welding all this stuff together, toxic fumes everywhere, 306 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:52.839 and I just couldn't stand like working with plastics, chemicals 307 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.319 and toxic fumes. So I said, I got to get 308 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:56.880 out of here. I got to find, you know, a 309 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.839 way to get out of this job. So I actually 310 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:04.599 got a newspaper and there was a small ad in 311 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.759 the in the classified sections looking for model makers. And 312 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:10.319 I had done some model making. I've been monitoring all 313 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:14.200 model making all my life. And so I called the 314 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:17.200 phone number and they said, oh, yeah, come on down, 315 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:20.319 you know, interview We're we're desperately looking for model makers. 316 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:26.519 So I quit the acid bath factory that day and 317 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:31.000 drove down to get interviewed, and the guy's like, oh, 318 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:33.559 you know, what have you done. I showed him my resume, 319 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:35.960 which wasn't very impressive, and I showed him some pictures 320 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:37.599 of some models I made, and he said, great, you're 321 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:40.480 you're you can start tomorrow. So I'm like so excited. 322 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:45.319 I was going to work in the movies now building models. 323 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:50.039 And of course I traded working with plastics, chemicals and 324 00:18:50.119 --> 00:18:52.799 toxic fumes to work in a place that has plastics, 325 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:56.079 chemicals and toxic fumes. So but it was but it 326 00:18:56.119 --> 00:19:00.160 was exciting stuff. And so I'm working away and the 327 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:02.039 guy next to or this girl next to me, she's 328 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.079 working and I said you know, I'm a model maker. 329 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.640 What do you do? And she says, I'm a student 330 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:11.200 at cal Arts, which is a local school that trains 331 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:17.680 animators and filmmakers. That's nice, you know, not necessarily professional 332 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:20.759 momo maker, but at least a student. And then the 333 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:23.759 guy next to me has got blonde hair and blue eyes, 334 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:27.480 and I said, I'm a model maker. What have you done? 335 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:29.440 What have you been as a model maker? And he says, 336 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:34.640 I'm Dmitri. I'm a ballet nswer from Russia and I've 337 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:37.559 just landed here and they were hiring anyone off the street. 338 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:43.920 It turns out, so I was not very special. So 339 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:47.319 I sort of like felt crestfallen because I'm like, oh man, 340 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:52.400 you know, I'm just anybody. But it was fortunate because 341 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:55.400 the movie that I was working on, I was building 342 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.599 what we call wet for wet models, and it was 343 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:01.599 for the movie The Abyss. So yes, my first big 344 00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:04.799 feature happened to be Jane Scammeron's The Abyss, which is 345 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:09.319 like a great movie in my opinion. Yeah, yeah, it's 346 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:10.519 a fine film. 347 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:12.519 Yeah, it doesn't get much. 348 00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:16.359 There's not much talk about The Abyss these days from 349 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:19.480 maybe from a sort of visual effects perspective in as 350 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:21.480 much as you know, you've got the water snake thing, 351 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:24.319 and it's sort of a precursor to terminate it to 352 00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:27.799 and therefore Jurassic Park. But there's some great work in 353 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.480 that film in terms of effects, and some really good 354 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.759 performances as well. I remember getting that on VHS and 355 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:36.240 then finding like the director's cut on laser disc, and 356 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:38.759 I love that film. Yeah, that's a great film. 357 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:40.119 Yeah, I agree. 358 00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:43.720 So what what what we're working on? Specifically on the Abyss. 359 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:47.079 So, so the company I was working for was called 360 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.799 wonder Works, which was run by a guy named Brick Price, 361 00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:55.440 and we were working on the wet for wet models, 362 00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:58.920 which meant that any model that was actually going to 363 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.839 be put in the water, we were working on that. 364 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:06.480 And I specifically built at the beginning of the movie, 365 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:09.640 the Montana, the Ohio class submarine you know, hits the 366 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:13.440 rocks and floods, and so me and one other model 367 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:18.440 maker named Jim mcgeechee built the engine room which gets flooded. 368 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:20.799 And that was the thing, and that was, you know, 369 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:23.039 that was my introduction to the movie business. And I 370 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:26.440 remember to this day. The instructions were very simple. It 371 00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:30.799 was directly from James Caermon, and he said, it's fit scale. 372 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:34.519 It's ten feet long, five feet wide, three feet tall, 373 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:39.640 nuclear submarine engine room, and there has to be a 374 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:42.079 path down the middle that looks like people could run out. 375 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:46.480 And that was the instruction. So I drew the thing. 376 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:49.839 I designed it. I looked up and it was very 377 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:52.880 hard back then because the internet wasn't as robust as 378 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:57.279 it is today. You know, pictures of what the atomic 379 00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:02.839 engine looks like in aular submarine, and kind of finagled 380 00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:05.960 that into the space and Jim and I built that 381 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:10.480 and we got pretty much no direction other than that 382 00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:14.720 description I gave you. And built it and then we 383 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:17.839 shipped it out to South Carolina where they shot the 384 00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:22.640 movie in a abandoned atomic reactor, if I remember. 385 00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:24.680 Correctly, Yeah, yeah, that's right. 386 00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:29.440 Yeah. And what's funny is that I used to work 387 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:32.480 at a hobby shop in Pasadena, California. It was a 388 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.880 train store called the Original whistle Stop, and occasionally people 389 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:39.720 would come in and this one guy named Jim, older 390 00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:42.000 guy would talk to me about how he's proud about 391 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.039 his son because his son was a model maker and 392 00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:45.759 he worked in the movies, and he'd described all the 393 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:50.880 things he worked on, and eventually I found out that 394 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.160 Jim's son was a guy named Pat McClung. And Pat 395 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:59.519 McClung was a model builder and model and supervisor and 396 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:02.680 he actually worked on aliens and then he was the 397 00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:04.759 he was the guy at the other end in South 398 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:06.799 Carolina that I was sending the model to that was 399 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:11.279 running in the shop for the ABYSS. And so later 400 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.400 when Pat became a supervisor, we were able to work together. 401 00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:16.319