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<v Speaker 1>Willie's intro. But you don't have Willy today, it's me.

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<v Speaker 1>We want to only Mike Allen Senior in for the

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<v Speaker 1>great American Willie Cunningham today. I'm in for him today,

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<v Speaker 1>tomorrow and Wednesday of next week. So I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>try to do a good show for you today. I

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<v Speaker 1>think we got a pretty good lineup. At one o'clock,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk to a guy by the name

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<v Speaker 1>of doctor Robert Marbitt. He just finished producing a documentary

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<v Speaker 1>on the fentanyl crisis. And you know, I know it's

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<v Speaker 1>a holiday season and don't want to bring anybody down,

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<v Speaker 1>but take my word for it as somebody who's in

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<v Speaker 1>the systems, it is a real problem. We will talk

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<v Speaker 1>to doctor Marbitt at one o'clock. Two o'clock. This is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be interesting. We're going to do a deep

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<v Speaker 1>dive into the John Bennet Ramsey case with JT. Townsend.

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<v Speaker 1>He has just been all over this thing and he's

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<v Speaker 1>got a timeline and a lot of interesting kind of

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<v Speaker 1>takes on it. There is a great Netflix documentary out

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<v Speaker 1>on it. I saw it about a month or so ago.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're into that stuff, you got to give it

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<v Speaker 1>a try. So pretty good show lined up for you.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, well, you know, obviously we're just getting out

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<v Speaker 1>of Christmas. I hope you all had a good Christmas.

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<v Speaker 1>Mine was good, but it was kind of interesting. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you don't mind, I'll share it with you, and

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to share with me. Seven four nine,

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<v Speaker 1>seven thousand, one eight hundred, the big one are the numbers.

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<v Speaker 1>I spent last week in Mexico Port of Aarta. I

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<v Speaker 1>love going to Mexico. This is probably, and I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>thirty forty years about my twentieth time down there. Just

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely love it. So went down there last week. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a great trip. It really was. Weather was in

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<v Speaker 1>the mid eighties every day, not a drop of rain

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<v Speaker 1>at all. And it's kind of interesting here in the

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas carols when you're sitting out by the pool drinking

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<v Speaker 1>a beer in December, but you know, they celebrate Christmas.

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<v Speaker 1>Obviously a lot of Catholics down there. It was just

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<v Speaker 1>interesting seeing that. But I gotta tell you too, I

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<v Speaker 1>was dreading. I've never flown around Christmas time. Like I said,

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<v Speaker 1>I've been there a million times, but not around Christmas.

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<v Speaker 1>It was near perfect. I mean, nothing went wrong, we

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<v Speaker 1>flew from Cincinnati into Houston and from Houston into Port

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<v Speaker 1>of Aarda, and I was in Port of Aarda I

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<v Speaker 1>guess about ten years or so ago. And man, it

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<v Speaker 1>has grown. I mean it's grown by leaps and bounds,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's one thing I was kind of hoping that

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<v Speaker 1>didn't but it did. But at any rate, the flight

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<v Speaker 1>was great. TSA. I mean, I can't say enough about

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<v Speaker 1>those guys. They take a lot of grief and I've

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<v Speaker 1>been on the receiving end of some discourteous, if you will,

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<v Speaker 1>comments from them, but they were courteous, efficient. It was

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<v Speaker 1>just impressive. On the way home, It's something happened that

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<v Speaker 1>has never happened to me before. From part of our

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<v Speaker 1>Arta to Houston, we actually got there a half hour early.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how the pilot did that. He must

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<v Speaker 1>have had his foot jammed on the accelerator, but it

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<v Speaker 1>was just it was nice to go through all that

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<v Speaker 1>without any glitches. So TSA takes a lot of crap,

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<v Speaker 1>but well, I'll tell you, I can't say enough about them.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's just not on this trip. It's been on

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<v Speaker 1>just about every trip lately. And by the way, just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of by circumstance. Last night I watched on Netflix

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<v Speaker 1>a great movie about TSA. It's called carry On. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a drama. It's not a real life thing, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>really good and it's all about what some bad guy

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<v Speaker 1>wants to do at an airport and if you get

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<v Speaker 1>a chance, you ought to watch it. One downside though, however,

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<v Speaker 1>and this has only happened to me one time before,

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<v Speaker 1>came home and brought a little bit a case of

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<v Speaker 1>Montezuma's Revenge with me. And for those of you that

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<v Speaker 1>might not know what it is, that's just look it

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<v Speaker 1>up because I don't want to talk about it too much.

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<v Speaker 1>But needless to say, it kind of put me on

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<v Speaker 1>the sidelines for a couple of days. So I missed

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas Eve with my family and Christmas Day as well.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm up and at them today feeling a lot better.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know the thing with Monozumer's revenge, it's don't

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<v Speaker 1>drink the water. Well I didn't drink the water, but

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<v Speaker 1>I mean you can get it anywhere. They can be

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<v Speaker 1>transported through food and anything like that. But still a

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<v Speaker 1>great trip, but it kind of put a damper on

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<v Speaker 1>the holidays. I kind of have a theory about Christmas, though,

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<v Speaker 1>this is what I believe, and I really believe this.

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas is great and it's fun when you're a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, there's just nothing better when you're a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>And then it becomes great again when you have kids.

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<v Speaker 1>How much fun it is to watch them tear open

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<v Speaker 1>their gifts and you know, knock each other on the

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<v Speaker 1>head with whatever they got, And it'll be fun again

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<v Speaker 1>if I ever have grandkids. Other than that, I mean, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a holiday to hook up with family and friends

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<v Speaker 1>and things like that. But I don't know, just a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit too commercial, starts way way too early, and

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. That's just my thought. Hey, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to ask you, and I want to hear from you.

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<v Speaker 1>Seven four nine, seven thousand, one, eight hundred, the big

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<v Speaker 1>one are the numbers your best Christmas gift ever? Best

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas gift ever? And I'll start off with mine. I

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<v Speaker 1>probably was maybe I don't know, nine ten years old

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<v Speaker 1>and I got from Santa Claus to with my mother

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<v Speaker 1>and father. And if you're in my age group, you'll

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<v Speaker 1>remember this a swim stingray bike with the banana seat

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<v Speaker 1>and it actually had a shifter in the middle of it.

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<v Speaker 1>That was a big deal back in those days, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was not expecting it at all, And boy, I

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<v Speaker 1>tell you what, I was kind of the envy of

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<v Speaker 1>the neighborhood for a while until of course I trashed it.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's my best Christmas gift. And I've got a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of good ones since then, but that's mine. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, if you want to weigh in with yours again,

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<v Speaker 1>seven four nine, seven thousand, one eight hundred, the big

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<v Speaker 1>one are the numbers. How about Christmas traditions? Every family

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<v Speaker 1>just about has a Christmas tradition, and my family's no different.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to tell you about it. It's kind of funny. Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>One year, when the kids were young, pretty young, we

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have a lot of money for Christmas gifts. It

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of worked out that way, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we got the gifts and thought, hen, that's not going

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<v Speaker 1>to look like too much under the tree. We better

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<v Speaker 1>do something. So I went to Big Lots and got

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<v Speaker 1>the kids a lot of cheap, cheap toy as well,

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<v Speaker 1>kids being kids, you know, they didn't notice that. I

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<v Speaker 1>kind of kept that tradition up. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>you shop at Big Lots, if you ever have and

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<v Speaker 1>the people there are just so nice and so friendly,

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<v Speaker 1>but they kind of have some off the wall and

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<v Speaker 1>unusual things. So usually on Christmas Eve I'll stop in

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<v Speaker 1>there and kind of try to find the goofiest things.

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<v Speaker 1>I can wrap them up like they're real gifts and

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<v Speaker 1>exchange those on Christmas Eve. And it's kind of gone

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<v Speaker 1>over well for the last, oh my goodness, probably about

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<v Speaker 1>thirty years. So, like I said, I'd like to hear

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<v Speaker 1>your Christmas tradition, your best Christmas gift ever? Seven four nine,

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<v Speaker 1>seven thousand, one, eight hundred the Big One. Give us

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<v Speaker 1>a call and let us know. Hey, we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>take a short break, but we'll be back. Mike Allen

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<v Speaker 1>in for the Great American seven hundred WLW. Hey we're back,

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<v Speaker 1>Mike Gallon in for the Great American. Willie Cunningham. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just telling you about my great Christmas tradition

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<v Speaker 1>of going to Big Lots to buy goofy gifts for

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<v Speaker 1>family members. My great friend Kurt Hartman, lawyer extraordinaire, just

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<v Speaker 1>sent me an article out of the useless A Today,

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<v Speaker 1>Big Lots plans to close all stores. See full list

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<v Speaker 1>of locations around the US. Just a couple of sentences here,

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<v Speaker 1>America is preparing to say goodbye to another big name

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<v Speaker 1>retail chain. Big Lots is planning to shudder all of

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<v Speaker 1>its locations following months of store closures and a September

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<v Speaker 1>filing for Chapter eleven bankruptcy protection. So you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>I can just cross another thing off the list that

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<v Speaker 1>I used to like that is gone. Yeah, the big

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<v Speaker 1>one lately is Frishes and I don't understand that. I

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<v Speaker 1>know the mayor family sold it, and well, i'll tell

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<v Speaker 1>you what you talk about good stewards of that restaurant

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<v Speaker 1>chain and that tradition. They sold it to some out

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<v Speaker 1>of town concern and just want the hell in a handbasket.

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<v Speaker 1>And I just hate to see that. Also, and this

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<v Speaker 1>is very, very very important, Hussmand's potato chips. Man, I

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<v Speaker 1>love their potato chips, especially the barbecue, but they are

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<v Speaker 1>long gone now too, So what are you gonna do?

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<v Speaker 1>I guess it's progress, but not really. Hey, getting back

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<v Speaker 1>to the topic of Christmas, and again would like to

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<v Speaker 1>hear your comments. Seven four nine, seven thousand, one eight hundred.

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<v Speaker 1>The big one are the numbers. Christmas shopping, or as

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<v Speaker 1>they like to call it now, holiday shopping. I pretty

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<v Speaker 1>much did all of my Christmas shopping this year for

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<v Speaker 1>the first time online through Amazon, and a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>that was because I was going out of the country

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<v Speaker 1>for a while. But I'm going to continue to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm one of these guys. It takes me

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<v Speaker 1>a while to buy into technology. It's just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the way it is with my generation. But Amazon, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>they are absolutely amazing. There have been a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>times when I've ordered some kind of obscure things on Amazon.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe I don't know, early afternoon, by the time I

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<v Speaker 1>go to bed, it's already there. Now that's not everything,

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<v Speaker 1>or even close to everything, but still they do a

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<v Speaker 1>great job, I think, And boy, what a great way

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<v Speaker 1>to avoid the nonsense of the shopping malls in the

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<v Speaker 1>box store, which you know, talking about things going out

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<v Speaker 1>of style. They're going the way of the Dodo too.

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<v Speaker 1>I think at some point it's just so much easier now.

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<v Speaker 1>The one thing I haven't had to do yet, and

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<v Speaker 1>I've been told that this actually goes pretty smoothly, is

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<v Speaker 1>to send something back through Amazon. Supposedly they got a

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<v Speaker 1>relatively simple process to do that, and I'm sure at

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<v Speaker 1>some point I'll have to deal with it, But the

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<v Speaker 1>malls themselves, I can't. I just can't do it anymore. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm also too last. What about two or three times

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<v Speaker 1>grocery shopping? I just have Kroger bring it to me.

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<v Speaker 1>I hate going to the grocery store. So as much

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<v Speaker 1>as I bitch and moan about automation and things like that,

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<v Speaker 1>it's making people's lives easier, even old farts like me.

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<v Speaker 1>But the malls in the box to, like I said,

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<v Speaker 1>they're going the way of the Dodo bird. I think,

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<v Speaker 1>although you know, you look out the window here where

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<v Speaker 1>we are, it looks directly on the parking lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the Kenwood Shopping mall, and man, there are people coming

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<v Speaker 1>in and out of there and have been, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know since Thanksgiving. Christmas starts way way too early these

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<v Speaker 1>days too. Hey, good, we got a call here Mike

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<v Speaker 1>and Alexandria. Hey Mike, how you doing good?

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<v Speaker 2>Mike, Hey, glad to hear you every Saturday on your show.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>I just had a story. You were talking about all

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<v Speaker 2>the franchises and stuff that are closing. Yeah, my dad's

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<v Speaker 2>a Westsider. Went to elder hell Y Ben been gone

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<v Speaker 2>about twelve years now, But he used to when I

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<v Speaker 2>was growing up, Mike. He used to eat so back

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<v Speaker 2>in the day when husbands have the big.

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<v Speaker 3>Bags, the four bags or small backs.

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<v Speaker 4>Inside of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, he would eat a bag of chips, trout,

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<v Speaker 2>French onion dip, and free burger beers almost every night.

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<v Speaker 1>How did he get free burger? Now? And my day

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<v Speaker 1>burger was pretty darn cheap. But how did your dad

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<v Speaker 1>get it for free?

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<v Speaker 5>But he didn't get it for free. He drank three

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<v Speaker 5>of them.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh I thought you said free. Okay, there three of them.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 1>And and that was his kind of routine, huh.

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<v Speaker 2>That that was his evening after dinner and stuff.

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<v Speaker 5>And he owned his own he owned his own business, so.

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<v Speaker 1>He worked a ton of hours.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but I'll never forget that.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's pretty fun, you know. If you remember husbands too,

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<v Speaker 1>remember they used to come in like a kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like a big drum if you like had a party

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<v Speaker 1>or something like that. But I don't know, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, people are probably thinking, now, you know, get

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<v Speaker 1>over it, Mike, But a lot of things that you

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<v Speaker 1>grow up with are gone.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah exactly.

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<v Speaker 6>I just I just.

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<v Speaker 2>Wanted to I don't.

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<v Speaker 6>I rarely call.

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<v Speaker 7>In, so I appreciate that, give you that story.

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that. Thank you, Mike.

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<v Speaker 8>Hey, you have a good happy New Year.

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<v Speaker 1>You too, Thank you. By bye. I'm glad he called

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<v Speaker 1>Burger beer. My goodness, I haven't heard that brand uttered

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<v Speaker 1>in quite a long time. Uh. And you know, back

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<v Speaker 1>in the day, we would occasionally and bibe and Burger

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<v Speaker 1>when we couldn't find the Hootie. And I'll tell you

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<v Speaker 1>one thing, it was cheap. It was really cheap. At

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<v Speaker 1>some point, I think in the seventies Burger merged with Hootipol,

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<v Speaker 1>and Hohodipol was making Burger, and you know what, they

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<v Speaker 1>hung in there quite a bit. Linda from Springboro, got

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<v Speaker 1>just a second here to Linda, what you got.

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<v Speaker 9>Hello, Yeah, I'm getting off of speaker.

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<v Speaker 5>Just some moments, okay, all right.

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<v Speaker 1>So hey Linda, Hey Linda, Linda, can you hang on

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<v Speaker 1>through the news because I want to talk to you

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<v Speaker 1>and I don't want to give you short shrifts, So

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<v Speaker 1>hang on and we'll get to you right when we

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<v Speaker 1>come back. Mike Allen in for the Great American seven

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<v Speaker 1>hundred WLW Well thirty eight News Radio seven hundred WLW

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<v Speaker 1>Mike Allen in for Willie Cunningham today and tomorrow as

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<v Speaker 1>well as next Wednesday and next Thursday and Friday. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>in for Sloaney. Anyway, we were talking about Christmas traditions, things,

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<v Speaker 1>all things Christmas, I guess, and I want to get

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<v Speaker 1>back to Linda here from Springboro. Linda, thanks for hanging

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<v Speaker 1>in there.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh that's all right, thank you.

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<v Speaker 9>I want to let you know that it is easy

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<v Speaker 9>to do returns from Amazon. Really send packaging that you

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<v Speaker 9>can reuse to send things back. Or actually I'm on

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<v Speaker 9>my way to the Cools to go ahead and return

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<v Speaker 9>a guest that I got for a daughter that doesn't

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<v Speaker 9>fit and I've already ordered the right size, so so

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<v Speaker 9>it's incredibly easy. They sent me, uh uh that one

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<v Speaker 9>of those codes QR codes, whatever they are, and that

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<v Speaker 9>I will they'll scan there and that shows that, hey, yeah,

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<v Speaker 9>they have started the process of a return.

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<v Speaker 5>So incredibly easy. However, I will tell you that I

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<v Speaker 5>I also.

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<v Speaker 9>Think it's very important for us to get out there

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<v Speaker 9>and shop. Maybe not during Christmas time was so busy,

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<v Speaker 9>but those are big box stores because you know, some

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<v Speaker 9>of us are traditional sizes. Also, a lot of sizes

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<v Speaker 9>are different depending on a brand name. And what I'm

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<v Speaker 9>speaking of is clothing, shoe runs and that sort of

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<v Speaker 9>thing that that that you're just you need to try

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<v Speaker 9>something on, you need to feel the fabric, you need

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<v Speaker 9>to write how it's, how it's made, and and that's

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<v Speaker 9>what is frustrating. I'm tall, and so it's that's always

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<v Speaker 9>been a difficult challenge for me in terms of clothing.

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<v Speaker 9>I have large feet for a woman, and so wear

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<v Speaker 9>size eleven, and so that can be a challenge because

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<v Speaker 9>those often sell out first as soon as they come in.

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<v Speaker 5>To a store.

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<v Speaker 9>But so I do utilize them when I know a

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<v Speaker 9>particular brand I have that the shoes work.

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<v Speaker 5>But I would never order close through Amazon. But you know,

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<v Speaker 5>it's a great company.

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<v Speaker 9>I think it's a great compliment, compliment to.

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<v Speaker 5>Our big box stores.

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<v Speaker 9>But please, we need to get out there and shop

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<v Speaker 9>at our Macy's and our Coals and our you know,

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<v Speaker 9>and our discount drug stores and also our regular pharmacies

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<v Speaker 9>and that sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 5>We need to have them.

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<v Speaker 9>My concern is if we just go to online purchasing

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<v Speaker 9>and we close down too many of these big box stores.

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<v Speaker 9>Right now, there are free returns, are there going to

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<v Speaker 9>be free returns if they have us over a barrel,

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<v Speaker 9>because their choice.

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<v Speaker 1>Sounds like a lost sight ranking.

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<v Speaker 9>Well, no, I'm not going to go that far, but

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<v Speaker 9>I'm going to say we really.

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<v Speaker 5>Need to think in terms of that, you know.

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<v Speaker 9>So I like that that there is a diversity of

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<v Speaker 9>choices for people, you know, during COVID, I certainly when

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<v Speaker 9>I had it and when I didn't have it, there

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<v Speaker 9>were times I've glad that I could order things I

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<v Speaker 9>need it to be delivered to me. I've had things

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<v Speaker 9>delivered to a daughter. I've ordered a Chris's gift for

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<v Speaker 9>a daughter that lives in San Francisco. So it has

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<v Speaker 9>its place, but there's definitely we've got to preserve our

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<v Speaker 9>big box stores.

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<v Speaker 5>You have to.

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<v Speaker 1>And I wanted to ask you if you had seen

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<v Speaker 1>Macy's has a place now at Rookwood where I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's where bed Baff and Beyond used to be, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's a department store in the traditional sense, but

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<v Speaker 1>a very scaled down one. I went in there and

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, a couple of weeks ago, and it

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<v Speaker 1>seemed like they had a pretty good selection. So hopefully

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<v Speaker 1>they hang on, because that's somewhat of a local company,

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<v Speaker 1>or at least it used to be.

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<v Speaker 9>Yeah right, yeah, way back to the Chilitou's days, was

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<v Speaker 9>a beautiful Christmas windows that my parents would take us

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<v Speaker 9>to see when we were a little myself here. So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 9>I want to this is off topic, but I do

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<v Speaker 9>want to say something real quick, because I listened to

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<v Speaker 9>your news in the meantime and do frequently. And about

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<v Speaker 9>the bridge, I'm glad that I'm not having to deal

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<v Speaker 9>with that. I don't get down to that area. However,

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<v Speaker 9>safety comes first, so people need to think they want

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<v Speaker 9>to hurry and get this done. I think it should

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<v Speaker 9>be expedited, but it safety has to be number one.

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<v Speaker 5>Absolutely. I wanted to say, all right, I appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm trying.

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<v Speaker 10>That.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 1>All Right, you're welcome. You know. Linda's right, And you

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<v Speaker 1>know I use that route, the four seventy one south. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not using it now, but I do frequently. And

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<v Speaker 1>you gotta do what you gotta do, I guess. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>one thing I can't wrap my mind around. Why would

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<v Speaker 1>you want to burn a bridge down? Number one? Number two?

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<v Speaker 1>How in the hell do you do that? I guess

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<v Speaker 1>that must have been one heck of a fire, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad they charge some people on that and we'll

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<v Speaker 1>see what happens as far as a possible conviction. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's kind of hard for me to wrap my brain

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<v Speaker 1>around how you do that. But it is a mess

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<v Speaker 1>and we do have to just kind of be patient

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<v Speaker 1>with it. And you know, I'm known in many circles

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<v Speaker 1>as mister Patients, so I don't have a problem with it.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you believe that, I got a bridge to

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<v Speaker 1>sell you anyway, Let's go to Dick from Dayton.

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<v Speaker 10>Hey, Dick, Hey, Merry Christmas.

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<v Speaker 1>Mark you too, buddy, Mike.

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<v Speaker 10>How are you doing, buddy?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm good, I'm good. What you got for me?

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<v Speaker 5>Oh?

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<v Speaker 10>I just wanted to tell you of a big shop

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<v Speaker 10>where I've been going to the swift stores and since.

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<v Speaker 11>The Bengals are doing good in Ohio State, I've stocked

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<v Speaker 11>up in all the jerseys and I say, with four

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<v Speaker 11>or five bags, I've only paid like five or ten bucks.

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<v Speaker 10>How about that.

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<v Speaker 1>That's pretty cool. You know, you'd think, like you said,

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<v Speaker 1>with them doing well, that there wouldn't be too many

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<v Speaker 1>out there at the thrift stores. But that's a great idea.

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<v Speaker 10>Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I've always well my family, as

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<v Speaker 10>you probably know, my musical and my uncles.

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<v Speaker 11>I used to go up to Cleveland and.

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<v Speaker 10>We played for two or three days and my aunt

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<v Speaker 10>would buy me like all CDs and stuff like that,

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<v Speaker 10>and we played for a lot for my family. And

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<v Speaker 10>I'm down here now, I've been retarded four years from

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<v Speaker 10>low So I'm a little bit bummed out because I'm

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<v Speaker 10>going to try to go tomorrow to play, you know,

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<v Speaker 10>because it's part of my life music.

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<v Speaker 1>As you there, where are you gonna play? Can you

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<v Speaker 1>tell us where you're gonna be?

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<v Speaker 10>Oh?

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00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:17.039
<v Speaker 11>I'm usually at uh well, the strummers play in Beaver

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<v Speaker 11>Creek and then I go and Xenia and then uh,

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<v Speaker 11>let's see the Henry banjo will start up and another

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<v Speaker 11>week because it's.

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<v Speaker 10>Here in the Dayton area. But sure I get, you know,

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<v Speaker 10>and I played the dulcimer a little bit. But but

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<v Speaker 10>everybody loves it, you know. They always say we can

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<v Speaker 10>count on Dick. Debbie always says, we hear Dick promoting us.

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<v Speaker 10>So h it's a good little band.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

400
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<v Speaker 1>It sounds like and I tell you what, you can

401
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<v Speaker 1>get a heck of a lot of music out of

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<v Speaker 1>a banjo. As you well know, I.

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<v Speaker 10>Play actually mandolin, but I played the banjo, yuke and

404
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.640
<v Speaker 10>the ukulele banjo, and they're pretty Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I didn't know there was such a thing.

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<v Speaker 10>They've got the blue oh the bluegrass Ben Joe. Oh boy,

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<v Speaker 10>you can go down the fingerboard and hit his loud Mike.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I'll.

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<v Speaker 11>Bet that I'm beat.

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<v Speaker 10>I tell your son, I said, Mary Christmast and everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I appreciate it. I'll pass it on, okay, bye bye, right, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you, Dick, you know, And I wanted to mention

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<v Speaker 1>something about this, but of course I forgot. I'm sitting here,

414
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<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of thinking about what I'm going to

415
00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:32.240
<v Speaker 1>do in the next segment, and what do I hear

416
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<v Speaker 1>is my son doing a spot for his new law firm.

417
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<v Speaker 1>And that's I wasn't expecting it, and I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>I just thought it was kind of cool. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm so proud of that young man. There's just no

420
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.240
<v Speaker 1>way I can explain it, but that was kind of cool. Hey,

421
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:54.559
<v Speaker 1>let's do this. Let's take a short break and then

422
00:24:54.640 --> 00:25:01.480
<v Speaker 1>come back. Mike Allen in for Willie Cunningham seven hundred WLW. Hey,

423
00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:04.640
<v Speaker 1>we're back. Mike Allen in four of the Great American

424
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:09.279
<v Speaker 1>Willie Cunningham seven hundred WLW. I'm going to get back

425
00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:12.240
<v Speaker 1>to the phones in just aminutey. We've got Steve from

426
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.079
<v Speaker 1>Marie Mont Definitely got to get to him. Just a

427
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:19.920
<v Speaker 1>couple statistics here about how much money people spend on

428
00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Christmas and how and what they're spending it on. This

429
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:28.359
<v Speaker 1>is from Capital One Shopping Research, so I'm assuming it's

430
00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:34.079
<v Speaker 1>legit and accurate. The average American spends around one thousand

431
00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:38.119
<v Speaker 1>dollars for the winter holidays, most of it on gift giving.

432
00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:42.680
<v Speaker 1>American holiday shoppers will spend listen to this, folks, and

433
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:48.079
<v Speaker 1>estimated nine hundred and eighty four point three billion dollars

434
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:53.359
<v Speaker 1>on Christmas in twenty twenty four, and projections indicate I

435
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:55.880
<v Speaker 1>don't know how they do that, but by twenty thirty

436
00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:00.720
<v Speaker 1>we'll be spending in this country one point to two

437
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:05.079
<v Speaker 1>trillion dollars. Pretty amazing when you think about it, and

438
00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:11.000
<v Speaker 1>including travel and entertainment expenses, the average consumer spends one thousand,

439
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:16.279
<v Speaker 1>six hundred and thirty eight bucks throughout the holiday season.

440
00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:21.119
<v Speaker 1>And we were just talking about this buying things online

441
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:25.440
<v Speaker 1>holiday shoppers in the United States are expected to spend

442
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:30.079
<v Speaker 1>two hundred and ninety eight billion bucks shopping online. And

443
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:33.160
<v Speaker 1>what would you think, just what would you think the

444
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:39.559
<v Speaker 1>percentage would be? Fifty, fifty, sixty forty. It's actually thirty

445
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:44.759
<v Speaker 1>point one percent of holiday sales in dollars since twenty

446
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.200
<v Speaker 1>twenty four, and that is going up because it's just

447
00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:52.759
<v Speaker 1>so darn easy. Hey, let's talk to Steven Marie Mount. Hey, Steve,

448
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:53.480
<v Speaker 1>how you doing.

449
00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:54.640
<v Speaker 5>What's up, Mike?

450
00:26:54.920 --> 00:26:57.160
<v Speaker 8>I just want to say you can get you off

451
00:26:57.160 --> 00:26:59.599
<v Speaker 8>for prayers up for an officer that died yesterday.

452
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:00.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh.

453
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:05.400
<v Speaker 8>Absolutely, Andrew Lee Lansing. He was a correctional officer. I'm

454
00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:07.960
<v Speaker 8>gonna retire. Correctional officer did twenty one years. So that's

455
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:08.599
<v Speaker 8>why I'm calling.

456
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:09.839
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad he was.

457
00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:13.559
<v Speaker 8>Working for Christmas morning and he got attack. My an

458
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.039
<v Speaker 8>inmate at Ross Correctional.

459
00:27:17.319 --> 00:27:23.039
<v Speaker 1>I read that, Steve, and I am so glad you called. Absolutely.

460
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:25.799
<v Speaker 8>I used to work every holiday and I just feel

461
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:27.400
<v Speaker 8>sorry for the poor guys family.

462
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:30.839
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that something that unfortunately is on the rise in

463
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:33.400
<v Speaker 1>this country and maybe even in Ohio.

464
00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:37.160
<v Speaker 8>It's terrible. I don't know what you can do to

465
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.039
<v Speaker 8>stop it. I mean, you don't. You can't have solved inmates.

466
00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.119
<v Speaker 8>You've got to give him, you know, a good laid

467
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:45.599
<v Speaker 8>way and stuff. It's just a problem. We've got to

468
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:47.720
<v Speaker 8>get around and talk about how to solve it, you know.

469
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:52.079
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you're right, because I mean it's just something

470
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:56.279
<v Speaker 1>that you can't stand for any law enforcement officer, which

471
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:58.880
<v Speaker 1>they are, who is killed in the line of duty

472
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:00.559
<v Speaker 1>obviously or injured.

473
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:02.200
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, he was sixty two.

474
00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh my goodness, My goodness.

475
00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:08.119
<v Speaker 8>So I retired as like sixty about the same age,

476
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:10.640
<v Speaker 8>three or sixty four or something, and it just to

477
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:13.039
<v Speaker 8>get older. You can't. How can you handle a younger guy.

478
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:15.400
<v Speaker 8>You don't have the strength, you know what I'm saying.

479
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, I'll tell you what. I get into

480
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:22.200
<v Speaker 1>the prison sometimes visiting clients, and I so much admire

481
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:25.319
<v Speaker 1>the job that they do, and also in the local

482
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:28.559
<v Speaker 1>lock ups as well. I spent a lot of time

483
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.359
<v Speaker 1>at the Hamilton County Justice Center.

484
00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:33.599
<v Speaker 8>In Hamilton County. They got a lot of problems done

485
00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:35.920
<v Speaker 8>there too. Well, they're doing a better job though.

486
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:38.559
<v Speaker 1>You know what. And I just I look at the

487
00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:44.839
<v Speaker 1>individual deputy and they just do an outstanding job under

488
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:49.400
<v Speaker 1>difficult circumstances. So I am so glad that you called

489
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:50.880
<v Speaker 1>in and recognis.

490
00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:51.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

491
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.720
<v Speaker 8>I just want to remind you about the people working

492
00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:58.039
<v Speaker 8>the holidays that are incorrect or prison police officers and stuff.

493
00:28:58.279 --> 00:28:59.119
<v Speaker 8>It's a tough.

494
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:04.319
<v Speaker 1>Job, it really is. I'm sorry, Okay, it really is.

495
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:07.279
<v Speaker 1>And we definitely will say some prayers for him, or

496
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:08.359
<v Speaker 1>at least I will.

497
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:10.200
<v Speaker 8>Thank you, Mike, appreciate you, love your show.

498
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, thanks Steve oh Man. I am glad he called

499
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:17.960
<v Speaker 1>because I saw that this morning and thought about mentioning it,

500
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:21.279
<v Speaker 1>but of course forgot. I'm telling you, like I said,

501
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:23.720
<v Speaker 1>I get over that Hamilton County Justice Center two or

502
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:27.200
<v Speaker 1>three times a week. And you know, I mean, being

503
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:31.000
<v Speaker 1>a cop in today's day and age is hard enough,

504
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:36.759
<v Speaker 1>but that job where you don't get outside, you're dealing

505
00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:42.039
<v Speaker 1>not exactly with the kremme de la creme of society.

506
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.480
<v Speaker 1>And I don't think those guys make very much money

507
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:51.079
<v Speaker 1>at all at all. And you know what this is

508
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:53.359
<v Speaker 1>probably isn't going to be real popular with some of

509
00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:56.640
<v Speaker 1>my Republican friends. But and I love Jim Neil, but

510
00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:00.000
<v Speaker 1>I think the sheriff, our current sheriff, does a pretty

511
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:03.480
<v Speaker 1>a darn good job. On that, on all that stuff,

512
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:07.000
<v Speaker 1>and it's just a tough job. It's a difficult job

513
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:13.119
<v Speaker 1>that they have to perform under very very difficult circumstances.

514
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:18.559
<v Speaker 1>So I'm glad he recognized that corrections officer, you know,

515
00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:22.319
<v Speaker 1>And we talked about this on my Saturday show. There

516
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:24.359
<v Speaker 1>is a move a foot to get on the ballot.

517
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:25.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it's going to be the November

518
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:31.039
<v Speaker 1>ballot or May ballot, whatever, a proposed constitutional amendment to

519
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:37.000
<v Speaker 1>get rid of qualified immunity for law enforcement officers. Qualified

520
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.839
<v Speaker 1>immunity is where if a police officer acts in good

521
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:47.759
<v Speaker 1>faith and injure someone, even kills someone, and he was

522
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:53.319
<v Speaker 1>not outside of acting in good faith, he's got that immunity.

523
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:57.160
<v Speaker 1>And that doesn't mean that the victim's family is not

524
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:00.720
<v Speaker 1>taken care of. You sue the munition. It's a palady

525
00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:06.559
<v Speaker 1>that that police officer works for, not the police officer privately.

526
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:10.680
<v Speaker 1>We got four states that have it now and it

527
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:14.799
<v Speaker 1>has just been a disaster and it's the worst thing

528
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:19.680
<v Speaker 1>that could possibly happen to cops. And we don't need

529
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:23.440
<v Speaker 1>that now. We don't we need more cops. And I'll

530
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:26.920
<v Speaker 1>tell you what if you think recruiting is difficult. Now,

531
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:30.319
<v Speaker 1>if they pass this thing, which I don't think they're

532
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.440
<v Speaker 1>gonna do, it's even gonna be worse. And we got

533
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:34.799
<v Speaker 1>to take a break for the news. But when we

534
00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:38.359
<v Speaker 1>get back, we're gonna get serious. And I always say this,

535
00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:42.039
<v Speaker 1>but I've had fifty plus years in the criminal justice

536
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:46.000
<v Speaker 1>system and I've never seen anything like what we're going

537
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:51.279
<v Speaker 1>to talk about, and that is the fentanyl epidemic. You know,

538
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:53.599
<v Speaker 1>if you're not in the system, I don't think people

539
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:58.519
<v Speaker 1>really realize that we had a crack crack epidemic in

540
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:02.400
<v Speaker 1>the eighties and early nineties and that this is nothing

541
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:05.079
<v Speaker 1>that is nothing compared to this. When we get back,

542
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:08.640
<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk to a man, doctor Robert Marbitt,

543
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:14.160
<v Speaker 1>and he did a documentary produced it. It's called Death Incorporated,

544
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:17.200
<v Speaker 1>and it's all about fentanyl. And I think you're really

545
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:19.160
<v Speaker 1>gonna want to hear what he is to say, and

546
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:21.920
<v Speaker 1>we'll talk to him when we get back. Mike Allen

547
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:30.400
<v Speaker 1>in for Willy Cunningham seven hundred WLW Preddios seven hundred

548
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:37.079
<v Speaker 1>WLW Mike Allen in for the Great American Willie Cunningham.

549
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:41.279
<v Speaker 1>On the day after Christmas, Well, it was like I

550
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:45.799
<v Speaker 1>was telling you before the break. Of all the challenges

551
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:50.079
<v Speaker 1>that we face in this country, this is one that

552
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:54.279
<v Speaker 1>is just not being talked about enough. And I'm talking

553
00:32:54.319 --> 00:32:58.400
<v Speaker 1>about the fentanyl crisis. I'm old enough to remember, and

554
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:00.559
<v Speaker 1>I was in the system back in the year eighties

555
00:33:00.599 --> 00:33:04.680
<v Speaker 1>and early nineties when we had the crack epidemic, and

556
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:07.480
<v Speaker 1>that was an epidemic. But man, it is nothing like

557
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:10.799
<v Speaker 1>this one. And here to talk about it is doctor

558
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.119
<v Speaker 1>Robert Marbitt. Doctor Marbitt served as a White House Fellow

559
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:19.279
<v Speaker 1>under President George W. Bush. He has most recently served

560
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:24.319
<v Speaker 1>as Executive director of the US Interagency Council on Homelessness.

561
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.920
<v Speaker 1>He served on that from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty one.

562
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.000
<v Speaker 1>But here's why he's here. He has produced a documentary

563
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:38.279
<v Speaker 1>that's getting rave reviews and it's called Fentanyl Death Incorporated.

564
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:43.079
<v Speaker 1>It's scheduled to be released sometime in January. Doctor Marbret,

565
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.400
<v Speaker 1>thanks so much for joining us this afternoon.

566
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:51.359
<v Speaker 7>Thank you so much for having me. And when you

567
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:55.119
<v Speaker 7>go through that crack, you know cochine, Yeah, you can

568
00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:59.880
<v Speaker 7>go all the way back to the angel dust, PCP,

569
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:05.680
<v Speaker 7>black tar plus crack cocaine K two spice. We have

570
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:10.559
<v Speaker 7>never seen anything like fittanol, And you're absolutely right, world's history.

571
00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:13.320
<v Speaker 1>And the problem doctor marvid Is, I'm sure you know

572
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:16.840
<v Speaker 1>is that people seem to be shrugging their shoulders, people

573
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:19.880
<v Speaker 1>who are not in the system about this. We got

574
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.400
<v Speaker 1>a lot of problems in this country, and I don't know,

575
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:26.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't think this one's getting the attention that it should.

576
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:29.880
<v Speaker 1>But tell us about the documentary and where we can

577
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:31.639
<v Speaker 1>see it and when we can see it.

578
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:36.920
<v Speaker 7>The documentary will be out in first quarter of twenty

579
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:40.880
<v Speaker 7>twenty five, and it will probably hit some theaters around

580
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:44.440
<v Speaker 7>the country, select theaters, and then we will go to streaming.

581
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:49.920
<v Speaker 7>You can go see it right now at Salem now

582
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:53.000
<v Speaker 7>dot com. That's like a web based not a traditional

583
00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:57.760
<v Speaker 7>television streaming. And let me give you one stat that

584
00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:02.719
<v Speaker 7>will just really put how bad this situation is and

585
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:06.119
<v Speaker 7>how we've never seen anything like this. In the last

586
00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:10.599
<v Speaker 7>five years, more people have died in Fitnel than in

587
00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:16.559
<v Speaker 7>America than all the US military fatalities of all uniform

588
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:21.079
<v Speaker 7>branches of government plus the intelligence services all added up

589
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:22.320
<v Speaker 7>for the last hundred years.

590
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

591
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:30.519
<v Speaker 7>So World War Two, Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Korea, a few

592
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:37.840
<v Speaker 7>un actions, the several different global War on terrors. Add

593
00:35:38.119 --> 00:35:40.960
<v Speaker 7>all that up for the last hundred years, it still

594
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:44.039
<v Speaker 7>doesn't beat what's happened to fitnel in the United States

595
00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:45.039
<v Speaker 7>in the last five years.

596
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:49.199
<v Speaker 1>That is absolutely chilling. Well, let me ask you, I mean,

597
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:53.360
<v Speaker 1>why do you think that people, not everyone, but a

598
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:56.079
<v Speaker 1>lot of people are just kind of shrugging their shoulders

599
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:56.360
<v Speaker 1>at this.

600
00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:01.320
<v Speaker 7>Well, I think that it comes from the leadership the

601
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:04.559
<v Speaker 7>last four years. The White House has been asleep on

602
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:09.760
<v Speaker 7>this issue, whereas President Trump elect, who's not even in office,

603
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:13.039
<v Speaker 7>is already talking about it and talking about it heavily.

604
00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:16.719
<v Speaker 7>The fact he got the Mexican president to give him

605
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:19.639
<v Speaker 7>a call and, by the way, start cracking down on

606
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:24.559
<v Speaker 7>the cartels, right, and same with our northern border, with

607
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:30.039
<v Speaker 7>the biker games up in Canada, and got a Premier Trudeau,

608
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:32.920
<v Speaker 7>prime Minister of Trudeau to come down to see him

609
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:35.920
<v Speaker 7>in mar A Lago. We've already had more action and

610
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:38.079
<v Speaker 7>he's not even in office yet.

611
00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:41.679
<v Speaker 1>Wow, let me ask you something, because I've listened to

612
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:45.280
<v Speaker 1>and watched an interview that you did, and I think

613
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:49.039
<v Speaker 1>I heard you say that there's more fentanyl coming from

614
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:52.559
<v Speaker 1>the Canadian border than there is from the Mexican border.

615
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Am I right about that.

616
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:58.239
<v Speaker 7>Yes, and that's happened in the last really eight months.

617
00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:03.599
<v Speaker 7>That's a new thing, and it's interconnected with the Southwest border.

618
00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:07.400
<v Speaker 7>Part of it is we have pulled so many agents

619
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.800
<v Speaker 7>to the southwest border to deal with what's going on

620
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:14.719
<v Speaker 7>there that has left the northern border open. And here's

621
00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:18.440
<v Speaker 7>a crazier deal. We have border agents on the northern

622
00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:23.119
<v Speaker 7>border sitting at their desk, at their station, but they're

623
00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:27.239
<v Speaker 7>not patrolling their districts. So they're at their computer and

624
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:31.159
<v Speaker 7>they're processing people coming across from the southwest border.

625
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:33.119
<v Speaker 1>Wow, and so quote.

626
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:37.239
<v Speaker 7>They're on station, but they're not out patrolling. They're not

627
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:39.599
<v Speaker 7>out doing what you need to do to really keep

628
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:44.000
<v Speaker 7>a border. And my deal is this shouldn't be a

629
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:47.559
<v Speaker 7>political issue. This should be common sense. We should have

630
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:52.079
<v Speaker 7>as a sovereign country. We should know who's coming across

631
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:54.960
<v Speaker 7>a border and what are they bringing with them, and

632
00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:59.960
<v Speaker 7>if they're bringing the most lethal chemical drug elis drug

633
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:04.480
<v Speaker 7>we've ever known to the world's history, we want to

634
00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:07.519
<v Speaker 7>know about it rather than just letting them walk it across.

635
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:10.960
<v Speaker 1>You would think, you know, and like you said, hopefully

636
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:14.320
<v Speaker 1>we do get some action when President Trump gets into

637
00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:18.840
<v Speaker 1>office again in about a month or so, I got

638
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:23.079
<v Speaker 1>to ask you this, what I see is just so

639
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:29.239
<v Speaker 1>much misery and heartache that this drug causes. In one year,

640
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:33.079
<v Speaker 1>doctor marbat I, and I'm a criminal defense attorney in

641
00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:37.039
<v Speaker 1>my day job, in one year, I had three of

642
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:42.960
<v Speaker 1>my clients die from fentonyl overdoses. And these were not dealers,

643
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:48.400
<v Speaker 1>these were consumers. These were users, And you know, and

644
00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:51.400
<v Speaker 1>that kind of made me take a pause here and

645
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.360
<v Speaker 1>think about what the heck's going on. I just and

646
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:58.159
<v Speaker 1>I know I'm maybe fixated on this. I don't understand

647
00:38:58.320 --> 00:39:02.119
<v Speaker 1>why the general public isn't up in arms about this.

648
00:39:04.360 --> 00:39:08.480
<v Speaker 7>Well, you got a lot of four or five things

649
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:11.239
<v Speaker 7>in there, and I think the big thing we need

650
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:13.440
<v Speaker 7>to do is that the mere fact you have me

651
00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:16.440
<v Speaker 7>on your show is a help in getting people to

652
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:20.920
<v Speaker 7>understand the magnitude of death. Five years ago, when I

653
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:24.320
<v Speaker 7>started seeing fentanyl and I was President of Trump's first

654
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:27.880
<v Speaker 7>Homelessness Art, I was saying fentanyl on the street in

655
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:31.559
<v Speaker 7>San Francisco, a little bit in La Portland and Seattle.

656
00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:34.960
<v Speaker 7>That was sort of about all I was seeing. And

657
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:41.519
<v Speaker 7>fast forward in the last six months, I've sat down

658
00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:45.119
<v Speaker 7>at every single dinner, I've sat down with or every

659
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:50.320
<v Speaker 7>single sort of business meeting I've had, somehow they say, hey,

660
00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:53.239
<v Speaker 7>I hear about your movie. Let me tell you about

661
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:57.239
<v Speaker 7>my nephew, my niece, sadly, my son or my daughter.

662
00:39:58.280 --> 00:40:02.280
<v Speaker 7>Five years ago, you didn't have that. Now, almost everywhere

663
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:05.920
<v Speaker 7>I go, somebody sits down and tells me their story

664
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:11.480
<v Speaker 7>about a very immediate relative that is dyed, not addicted,

665
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:17.119
<v Speaker 7>not taking, not using, has died. And I think the

666
00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:21.159
<v Speaker 7>more that message gets out. And here's another scary stack.

667
00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:25.079
<v Speaker 7>The fastest growing death rate for children zero to five

668
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:30.079
<v Speaker 7>is fentanyl zero to five, zero to five, fastest growing

669
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:32.679
<v Speaker 7>rate of death rate there. And you sit there and go,

670
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:36.400
<v Speaker 7>they're not calling a dealer, they're not addicts. They're just

671
00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:40.440
<v Speaker 7>getting fittonyl what's called fitnyl poison because finnyl dust is

672
00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:44.639
<v Speaker 7>so dangerous. And let's put in perspective, two grains of

673
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:48.679
<v Speaker 7>salt equivalent of fitnel will kill most people. Three grains

674
00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:52.199
<v Speaker 7>will kill anybody, or one fifteenth of a rice green.

675
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:57.239
<v Speaker 7>And so you can't see it, you can't smell it,

676
00:40:56.800 --> 00:41:00.199
<v Speaker 7>you can't taste it, and it's sort of like dust,

677
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:03.480
<v Speaker 7>you know, And so when you have a bunch together

678
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:07.639
<v Speaker 7>you can see it but a deadly amount is almost

679
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:12.000
<v Speaker 7>non seeable. And so if somebody leaves some fentanyl dust

680
00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:17.000
<v Speaker 7>on a park bench, a restaurant counter, it's some bad

681
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:20.400
<v Speaker 7>actor comes into somebody's home and left it on a side.

682
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:23.840
<v Speaker 7>And then you put your hamburger down, your sandwich down,

683
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:27.239
<v Speaker 7>you pick it back up, your debt. And also the

684
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:31.119
<v Speaker 7>dealers are starting to make pills that look like skillets.

685
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:35.920
<v Speaker 7>They're colorful pills, they look like they're candy. And so

686
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:40.679
<v Speaker 7>this is not just about addicts anymore. It used to

687
00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:43.719
<v Speaker 7>be I get that, but and that may be part

688
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:46.679
<v Speaker 7>of your answers. That's the stigma. Well, they were addicts,

689
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:49.119
<v Speaker 7>they add it coming to them or something like that.

690
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:52.639
<v Speaker 7>That is no longer the case. Now we have cross contamination,

691
00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:57.599
<v Speaker 7>we have lacing, and we have poisoning. And if it

692
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:01.239
<v Speaker 7>wasn't for everything else, just the fact that this is

693
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:04.519
<v Speaker 7>the fastest growing death ray of children's that were before

694
00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:09.159
<v Speaker 7>that should be astonishing enough to stop it, or in

695
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:11.599
<v Speaker 7>another way to think about it, it's a seven thirty

696
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:16.719
<v Speaker 7>seven going down every single day in America, and we

697
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:20.840
<v Speaker 7>knew what happened when two Boeings went down. They stopped

698
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:24.039
<v Speaker 7>the whole fleet in the world. And we're not acting

699
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:25.480
<v Speaker 7>like our house is on fire.

700
00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:29.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and we're not. We're not, and we absolutely have

701
00:42:29.840 --> 00:42:33.440
<v Speaker 1>to and hopefully your documentary will get a lot of

702
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:37.599
<v Speaker 1>people's attention. You had mentioned lacing. I read something not

703
00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:43.079
<v Speaker 1>too long ago that on the college campus, that's something

704
00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:46.599
<v Speaker 1>that's going on quite a bit. Can you comment on that.

705
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:52.480
<v Speaker 7>Absolutely. And there's two sort of sides of this. One

706
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:57.280
<v Speaker 7>is contamination, which generally when you have a contaminator and

707
00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:01.199
<v Speaker 7>they may be doing weed and something more simple or

708
00:43:01.239 --> 00:43:04.280
<v Speaker 7>innocent if you will, Still it's a drug. I get that,

709
00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:09.039
<v Speaker 7>but they don't. They're not going there and taking thinking

710
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:13.079
<v Speaker 7>they're getting fentanyl. And because of the distributors or the

711
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:18.639
<v Speaker 7>wholesalers or the producers, last Thursday, they're producing fentanyl and

712
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:22.119
<v Speaker 7>on Friday they're putting packets a weed together and they

713
00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:27.199
<v Speaker 7>don't clean the table, so it cross contaminates there. Then

714
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:30.599
<v Speaker 7>you get the crazy stuff like up in the h

715
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:34.679
<v Speaker 7>Kensington area up in Philadelphia that's sort of the epicenter

716
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:38.880
<v Speaker 7>of this part of the crisis, where they're purposely putting

717
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:41.920
<v Speaker 7>it in with horse tranquilizers, So you have a mix

718
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:47.800
<v Speaker 7>of horse tranquilizer and fentanyl together and and you see

719
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:51.519
<v Speaker 7>it and you're just like, how can we I mean,

720
00:43:51.880 --> 00:43:55.000
<v Speaker 7>horse tranquilizer is bad enough, but then you add fitanel

721
00:43:55.039 --> 00:44:00.559
<v Speaker 7>to it, and so sometimes it's purposeful, but most of

722
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:04.639
<v Speaker 7>the time the person and often the dealer doesn't even

723
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:08.920
<v Speaker 7>know fentanel's in it. That's what's so how pervasive this is,

724
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:12.400
<v Speaker 7>and part of it is it's such a small dose

725
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.920
<v Speaker 7>as lethal. You know, you basically can't see it or

726
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:19.119
<v Speaker 7>measure it by unless you're a scientist and you're in

727
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:21.280
<v Speaker 7>a lab right of the proper equipment.

728
00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:26.360
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you what. Weed is now legal for recreational

729
00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:29.039
<v Speaker 1>use here in the state of Ohio. I have not

730
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:35.360
<v Speaker 1>seen a case yet that actually was discovered, and the

731
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Coroner's office here does the testing and they do a

732
00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:42.440
<v Speaker 1>great job. I haven't seen any cases yet where weed

733
00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:47.079
<v Speaker 1>has been laced, either accidentally or intentionally with ventanyl. You're

734
00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:49.320
<v Speaker 1>saying that's happening around the country.

735
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:53.480
<v Speaker 7>Too, absolutely, And I think the difference is the states

736
00:44:53.559 --> 00:45:01.519
<v Speaker 7>where you have a state operated or state overseeing regulated dispensaries,

737
00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:05.119
<v Speaker 7>you are not seeing it there. But in the states

738
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:10.039
<v Speaker 7>that you have no official legality in your getting it

739
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:13.280
<v Speaker 7>off the street, that's where it's really happening the most.

740
00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:18.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Okay, I wanted to ask you too, with your background,

741
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:22.159
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily criminal justice, as from what I have seen,

742
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:27.199
<v Speaker 1>what caused you to get involved in this thing and

743
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:30.159
<v Speaker 1>do the deep dive that you obviously have done on it.

744
00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:37.679
<v Speaker 7>Well, I've been involved with homelessness for four decades, right,

745
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.280
<v Speaker 7>and I have a master's in criminal justice from the

746
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:44.599
<v Speaker 7>criminal colleges, and so I've been around the sort of

747
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:50.800
<v Speaker 7>intersection or the nexus of the illicit drugs and homelessness

748
00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:55.559
<v Speaker 7>for a very long time. The difference on what happened

749
00:45:55.559 --> 00:46:03.119
<v Speaker 7>on Fitnel is you had a two prom problem happening initially,

750
00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:05.639
<v Speaker 7>but part of it was what was happening on the

751
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:09.480
<v Speaker 7>streets within homelessness. But there's another one. I think we

752
00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:12.719
<v Speaker 7>absolutely have to be honest about it and talked about it.

753
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:17.280
<v Speaker 7>When Purdue Farm went around and not just Purdue farmat

754
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:20.000
<v Speaker 7>but it was others. But yet there's the one that's

755
00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:23.960
<v Speaker 7>most known. They went around and said that these new

756
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:29.039
<v Speaker 7>synthetic opioids are non addictive, that they wouldn't get you

757
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:33.000
<v Speaker 7>addicted and they would be fine. Well, it turned out

758
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:36.000
<v Speaker 7>not only was that not right, it was almost exactly

759
00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:40.000
<v Speaker 7>the opposite. One of the most dangerous drugs and everybody

760
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:44.880
<v Speaker 7>was getting addicted. So when all those lawsuits occurred, an

761
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:48.800
<v Speaker 7>FDA and everybody got involved in the state attorney generals

762
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:52.400
<v Speaker 7>started saying, all right, we're going to not do these prescriptions.

763
00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:58.119
<v Speaker 7>You had millions of people using the synthetic legal opioids

764
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:03.679
<v Speaker 7>through prescription through their doctors, hundreds of thousand addicted. And

765
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:11.199
<v Speaker 7>the cartels from Mexico they're horrible people doing horrible things,

766
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:14.960
<v Speaker 7>but they're good business people. They understood they had an

767
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:20.119
<v Speaker 7>addicted community ready to fill the supply, and they brought

768
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.719
<v Speaker 7>the supply up. And that's really Phase one of the

769
00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:28.960
<v Speaker 7>Finnel crisis was a criminal justice replacement from the drugs.

770
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:31.719
<v Speaker 7>You know that you were seeing the precursors from China

771
00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:35.320
<v Speaker 7>going through the Mexican cartels, and all they did was

772
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:40.679
<v Speaker 7>backfill the supply for everybody addicted. Through the Purdue Pharma problems.

773
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:44.199
<v Speaker 1>Wow, I didn't realize that. I mean, Perdue Pharma did

774
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:48.000
<v Speaker 1>some as you well know, some serious damage with that.

775
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:49.639
<v Speaker 1>But that makes sense.

776
00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:55.800
<v Speaker 7>There's a direct tie between the how, and I think

777
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:59.280
<v Speaker 7>in retrospect, when the history gets written about it, somebody's

778
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:01.719
<v Speaker 7>going to say, well, if we knew that many people

779
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:07.199
<v Speaker 7>were addicted, and government was complacent because they authorized it.

780
00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:09.760
<v Speaker 7>I think people are going to come back and say,

781
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:13.360
<v Speaker 7>why didn't we spend that money for treatment and recovery

782
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:17.719
<v Speaker 7>as people are coming off that, rather than just leaving

783
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:21.719
<v Speaker 7>an open market wide open to the cartels to backfill

784
00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:22.440
<v Speaker 7>the supply.

785
00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:25.719
<v Speaker 1>You know, you bring up a good point, you know,

786
00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:30.320
<v Speaker 1>talking about where the supply is going and things like that,

787
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:33.400
<v Speaker 1>and treatment, which I don't think we have enough treatment

788
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:36.360
<v Speaker 1>in the system. We really don't. And from what I

789
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:40.519
<v Speaker 1>can see, it's not always successful, and more often than

790
00:48:40.559 --> 00:48:48.119
<v Speaker 1>not it isn't. Can a fentanyl addict be rehabilitated from

791
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:48.840
<v Speaker 1>that addiction?

792
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:53.039
<v Speaker 5>In your opinion, Yes, and it's hard.

793
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:56.840
<v Speaker 7>It's not easy. I don't want to be polyannish about it.

794
00:48:56.960 --> 00:49:02.840
<v Speaker 7>But you can and we have and I know successful people,

795
00:49:03.559 --> 00:49:06.760
<v Speaker 7>and more importantly, I think we have a moral obligation

796
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:11.599
<v Speaker 7>to absolutely try. Yes, our country, and I'm going to

797
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:15.559
<v Speaker 7>talk real philosophical is sort of a person that's worked

798
00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:17.440
<v Speaker 7>in the White House three different times.

799
00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:19.519
<v Speaker 1>We got we only have about a minute doc.

800
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:23.679
<v Speaker 7>Okay, we've made it real easy to get high in

801
00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:26.960
<v Speaker 7>America and hard to get treatment. You need to make

802
00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:29.239
<v Speaker 7>it easy to get treatment and hard to.

803
00:49:29.159 --> 00:49:31.559
<v Speaker 1>Get high in America. You know what, I've never heard

804
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:33.960
<v Speaker 1>it said like that, doc, but that makes a heck

805
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:37.679
<v Speaker 1>of a lot of sense. Really appreciate you joining us

806
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:41.480
<v Speaker 1>one more time, sir, if you could tell people how

807
00:49:41.480 --> 00:49:43.880
<v Speaker 1>they can watch the documentary.

808
00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:48.599
<v Speaker 7>Feitinal Depth Incorporated. It'll be on multiple platforms in about

809
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:51.440
<v Speaker 7>three months, and right now, if you want to stream

810
00:49:51.519 --> 00:49:54.559
<v Speaker 7>it through a web based program, you can go to

811
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:59.199
<v Speaker 7>Salem now dot com and the title of it is

812
00:49:59.239 --> 00:50:00.960
<v Speaker 7>fitnal Depth Incorporated.

813
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:05.599
<v Speaker 1>All right, sir. Again, really appreciates you weighing in on this.

814
00:50:05.719 --> 00:50:07.480
<v Speaker 1>It's extremely important.

815
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:11.199
<v Speaker 7>Thank you so much for caring about the fetnel crisis.

816
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:12.679
<v Speaker 7>I really appreciate it.

817
00:50:12.760 --> 00:50:16.199
<v Speaker 1>All right, thank you, sir. All Right, that was doctor

818
00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:20.519
<v Speaker 1>Robert Marbitt. That's kind of sobering, isn't it. I mean,

819
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:24.960
<v Speaker 1>you hear these statistics about how damaging and how dangerous

820
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:28.519
<v Speaker 1>this drug is, and some people kind of shrug their

821
00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:31.840
<v Speaker 1>shoulders or don't believe it. I mean, there it is

822
00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:35.280
<v Speaker 1>out of the horse's mouth. And we shall see with

823
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:40.119
<v Speaker 1>the border situation, with the new president coming in, if

824
00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:43.920
<v Speaker 1>he can at least somehow stop the bleeding. I guess

825
00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:45.559
<v Speaker 1>we'll see. Hey, we got to take a break, but

826
00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:48.960
<v Speaker 1>we'll be back Mike Allen and for Bill Cunningham seven

827
00:50:49.039 --> 00:51:02.559
<v Speaker 1>hundred WLW Berne, we are back Mike Allen in four

828
00:51:03.320 --> 00:51:07.960
<v Speaker 1>the great American Willie cunning In. I should say Mike

829
00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:12.079
<v Speaker 1>Allen Sr. As opposed to Mike Allen Junior, whom you

830
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:14.320
<v Speaker 1>can hear on Sunday nights here when there's not a

831
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:19.360
<v Speaker 1>football game. You know, some more statistics. And I'm not

832
00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:21.920
<v Speaker 1>trying to bore you with this stuff, but I think

833
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:25.719
<v Speaker 1>people are genuinely interested in this. And by the way,

834
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:28.239
<v Speaker 1>at eleven o'clock and I think we're going to have

835
00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:32.239
<v Speaker 1>him for a full hour, we're going to talk to JT. Townsend.

836
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:38.159
<v Speaker 1>JT has done an incredibly deep dive into the John

837
00:51:38.199 --> 00:51:42.239
<v Speaker 1>Benet Ramsey killing witch. And I didn't realize this till

838
00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:45.159
<v Speaker 1>I read it from some material that JT gave me.

839
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:50.400
<v Speaker 1>It was twenty eight years ago last night that little

840
00:51:50.440 --> 00:51:53.960
<v Speaker 1>girl was sick, so my elder math is right, she'd

841
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:57.440
<v Speaker 1>be thirty four years old. Now. It's just so tragic

842
00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:03.079
<v Speaker 1>and what a screwed up up investigation. And JT said

843
00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:06.039
<v Speaker 1>he will take calls, so I know there are a

844
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:08.679
<v Speaker 1>lot of people out there that are interested in these

845
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:13.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of things, and here's your chance. Okay, back to

846
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:17.760
<v Speaker 1>the boring. I don't I mean interesting statistics. Gift cards

847
00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:23.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't know about you. I get them and I

848
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:27.760
<v Speaker 1>give them out too. It's some people say it's kind

849
00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:30.599
<v Speaker 1>of a cop out, and in some ways it is,

850
00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:35.119
<v Speaker 1>but you know, you think about it, like I've given

851
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:39.039
<v Speaker 1>out gift cards for Amazon. Well, what are people gonna

852
00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:41.800
<v Speaker 1>do with it? They're gonna get whatever the heck they want.

853
00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:45.880
<v Speaker 1>So at the end of the day, it's I guess

854
00:52:45.880 --> 00:52:50.960
<v Speaker 1>it's a little bit more personal than giving cash, but

855
00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:55.000
<v Speaker 1>it's almost like giving cash. But anyway, I use them.

856
00:52:55.159 --> 00:53:00.239
<v Speaker 1>I buy them for some of my gifts, and we

857
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:03.480
<v Speaker 1>use them when they come to me. Get this, though,

858
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:06.599
<v Speaker 1>I didn't think it would be this high. Seventy one

859
00:53:06.679 --> 00:53:12.599
<v Speaker 1>percent of holiday shoppers planned to purchase gift cards in

860
00:53:12.679 --> 00:53:16.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty four. This was done I think in November

861
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:21.559
<v Speaker 1>seventy one percent. And again, this is good, this is

862
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:28.400
<v Speaker 1>good research Capital one shopping research seventy one percent. So

863
00:53:28.480 --> 00:53:30.679
<v Speaker 1>I think a lot of people are doing what I do,

864
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:34.559
<v Speaker 1>and a lot of other people is lightening their load

865
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:39.559
<v Speaker 1>of gift giving. If you will by giving gift cards,

866
00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:44.760
<v Speaker 1>fifty three percent of gift recipients. And this surprises me too,

867
00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:48.679
<v Speaker 1>fifty three percent of gift recipients want to receive gift

868
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:54.679
<v Speaker 1>cards in twenty twenty four. Holiday shoppers purchased an average

869
00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:58.639
<v Speaker 1>of three to four gift cards during the twenty twenty

870
00:53:58.679 --> 00:54:03.400
<v Speaker 1>three holiday season. Like I said, mine were all Amazon

871
00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:07.119
<v Speaker 1>except for one. But here's the thing that I could

872
00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:12.639
<v Speaker 1>not find statistic on. You know, I've been given gift

873
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:16.119
<v Speaker 1>cards for like restaurants and things like that, and that

874
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:19.079
<v Speaker 1>is a big part of these gift cards as restaurants,

875
00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:22.920
<v Speaker 1>and I haven't used them. I just haven't had the chance.

876
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:26.800
<v Speaker 1>It might be a restaurant that's pretty far away. I

877
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:31.079
<v Speaker 1>just wonder how much, let's just use the restaurants as

878
00:54:31.119 --> 00:54:35.440
<v Speaker 1>an example, how much the owners are making on these

879
00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:39.800
<v Speaker 1>things just simply by you know, them selling them and

880
00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:43.920
<v Speaker 1>the person not showing up to redeem them. Now, the

881
00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:46.400
<v Speaker 1>older ones that I've had, when I have tried to

882
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:50.960
<v Speaker 1>use them, I have not been turned back once by

883
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:54.559
<v Speaker 1>somebody saying, hey, sorry, you waited too long. But I

884
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:58.400
<v Speaker 1>wonder about that if you have any knowledge of that

885
00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:02.239
<v Speaker 1>or carred away in four nine seven, eight hundred The

886
00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:07.159
<v Speaker 1>big one are the numbers. Okay, this one is interesting.

887
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:11.800
<v Speaker 1>I think this is what people want, what they want

888
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:16.280
<v Speaker 1>to get for a Christmas gift. Uh, this is in

889
00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:20.400
<v Speaker 1>billions of dollars. So the preferred I'm sorry, that's a

890
00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:26.440
<v Speaker 1>different statistic. Preferred holiday gifts in twenty twenty four. I

891
00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:32.039
<v Speaker 1>just told you fifty three percent gift cards, forty nine percent, apparel,

892
00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:38.239
<v Speaker 1>books and media twenty eight percent, cosmetics. He could give

893
00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:44.719
<v Speaker 1>cosmetics for a Christmas gift. Cosmetics twenty five percent, electronics

894
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:50.119
<v Speaker 1>twenty two percent, home goods twenty two percent, jewelry twenty percent.

895
00:55:50.119 --> 00:55:52.960
<v Speaker 1>I would have thought that would have been more sporting

896
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:58.360
<v Speaker 1>goods seventeen percent. So that's what people want, and fifty

897
00:55:58.360 --> 00:56:03.280
<v Speaker 1>three percent want those gift cards. So hopefully they're not

898
00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:07.719
<v Speaker 1>going to say that was kind of a kind of insensitive.

899
00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:11.440
<v Speaker 1>So anyway, that just gives you an idea. The bottom

900
00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:16.000
<v Speaker 1>line is we're spending a heck of a lot of money. Hey,

901
00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:18.199
<v Speaker 1>let's do this, because my voice is wearing out a

902
00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:20.880
<v Speaker 1>little bit. Let's take a break and then we'll come back.

903
00:56:21.239 --> 00:56:25.119
<v Speaker 1>Mike Allen in for Willie Cunningham seven hundred WLW.

904
00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:30.480
<v Speaker 12>Hey, Mike McConnell, here reminding you if you overslept, or

905
00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:33.320
<v Speaker 12>if your head was encased in plaster, or you're being

906
00:56:33.400 --> 00:56:36.559
<v Speaker 12>chased by dinosaurs on some remote island. The reason doesn't

907
00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:38.719
<v Speaker 12>really matter. Just know if you miss my show, you

908
00:56:38.760 --> 00:56:41.280
<v Speaker 12>can catch what you missed the Mike McConnell Show on

909
00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:44.400
<v Speaker 12>the Mike McConnell podcast on the iHeartRadio app.

910
00:56:47.480 --> 00:56:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Just in time for the new year, the new and

911
00:56:49.480 --> 00:56:57.920
<v Speaker 1>improved free iHeartRadio app is finally here. It's everything eleven

912
00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:01.400
<v Speaker 1>forty eight. News Radio seven Drew Mike Allen in for

913
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Willie Cunningham. Right before we broke, we were talking about

914
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:09.119
<v Speaker 1>gift cards and I don't hit in front of me anymore,

915
00:57:09.159 --> 00:57:12.719
<v Speaker 1>but I believe it was fifty three percent of Americans

916
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:16.280
<v Speaker 1>said that's kind of what they wanted for Christmas. Let's

917
00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:19.360
<v Speaker 1>talk to Hank in cold Water. He wants to talk

918
00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:24.480
<v Speaker 1>about it. How you doing, Hank, Hello, Hank? Yes, how

919
00:57:24.519 --> 00:57:25.320
<v Speaker 1>you doing? Yes?

920
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:25.679
<v Speaker 5>Mike.

921
00:57:26.239 --> 00:57:27.920
<v Speaker 3>First of all, I want to tell you how much

922
00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:32.159
<v Speaker 3>I appreciate your show, especially on Saturday mornings. I think

923
00:57:32.199 --> 00:57:35.679
<v Speaker 3>I've been the best thing b LW did.

924
00:57:36.079 --> 00:57:36.599
<v Speaker 1>Thank you.

925
00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:41.880
<v Speaker 3>The thing with lef cards, I don't think, and you

926
00:57:42.039 --> 00:57:45.800
<v Speaker 3>probably more knowledgeable about that than I am. There's no

927
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:50.239
<v Speaker 3>expiration date. They might put it on there, really that's

928
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:52.639
<v Speaker 3>not that doesn't work.

929
00:57:53.480 --> 00:57:53.599
<v Speaker 9>Now.

930
00:57:54.239 --> 00:58:00.679
<v Speaker 3>I think there's something that they passed oh few years

931
00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:06.199
<v Speaker 3>back that there's no such thing as an expiration date.

932
00:58:06.519 --> 00:58:11.960
<v Speaker 3>They might put it on the card, but it doesn't work.

933
00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:16.199
<v Speaker 1>They gotta honor it now, you know what I'm gonna.

934
00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:19.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna dig down into that, Hank. I appreciate you

935
00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:21.840
<v Speaker 1>letting us know that. I kind of thought at some

936
00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:26.599
<v Speaker 1>point they would expire. But I gotta think, especially restaurants,

937
00:58:27.079 --> 00:58:29.559
<v Speaker 1>they're making some money on this because they're people that

938
00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:34.400
<v Speaker 1>just you know, they for whatever reason, they don't redeem them.

939
00:58:34.519 --> 00:58:36.480
<v Speaker 1>And you know what, if they don't redeem them, it's.

940
00:58:36.320 --> 00:58:42.039
<v Speaker 3>On them, right, I know, I agree, and I don't

941
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:44.480
<v Speaker 3>think you can do that anymore. I think they got

942
00:58:44.599 --> 00:58:45.639
<v Speaker 3>to honor them.

943
00:58:46.119 --> 00:58:49.119
<v Speaker 1>I do too. I mean, but that's the trend. I mean,

944
00:58:49.159 --> 00:58:53.159
<v Speaker 1>the trend is to shop online and purchase get cards.

945
00:58:53.480 --> 00:58:56.800
<v Speaker 1>Guess why, because it's easy and we've kind of become

946
00:58:56.840 --> 00:58:59.760
<v Speaker 1>a little bit lazy I think in this society.

947
00:59:00.679 --> 00:59:01.880
<v Speaker 11>Yeah, you're right.

948
00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:08.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I appreciate the call. Well, thank you, okay, Hank. Yeah,

949
00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:11.559
<v Speaker 1>I mean, if you don't use them. That's on you.

950
00:59:11.679 --> 00:59:15.320
<v Speaker 1>Having said that, I've got you know what. I actually

951
00:59:15.400 --> 00:59:18.440
<v Speaker 1>went out years ago and bought actually one of those

952
00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:25.400
<v Speaker 1>little index card boxes with alphabetical separators that I put

953
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:27.480
<v Speaker 1>the gift cards in. And there are some I know

954
00:59:28.400 --> 00:59:31.280
<v Speaker 1>that have been sitting there. One restaurant in particular, I

955
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:35.159
<v Speaker 1>won't name is across town. It's a great restaurant, but

956
00:59:35.239 --> 00:59:39.119
<v Speaker 1>I just I haven't had the chance to use it yet.

957
00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:43.519
<v Speaker 1>So we'll see how it plays out. But it sure

958
00:59:43.639 --> 00:59:47.519
<v Speaker 1>seems like that is kind of the kind of the

959
00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:52.000
<v Speaker 1>trend that we're seeing. Oh, I'll tell you this has

960
00:59:52.079 --> 00:59:57.239
<v Speaker 1>been It's been an interesting holiday for me, Like I said,

961
00:59:58.280 --> 01:00:01.840
<v Speaker 1>spending a great portion of it out of the country

962
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:07.960
<v Speaker 1>in Mexico and then coming back coming back to Mana

963
01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:10.719
<v Speaker 1>Zuma's revenge and if you don't know what that is,

964
01:00:11.679 --> 01:00:15.800
<v Speaker 1>look it up. It ain't fun. But I am in

965
01:00:15.880 --> 01:00:18.800
<v Speaker 1>the tail end of it. I'm very happy to be here,

966
01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:23.360
<v Speaker 1>and I'll be very happy to be here tomorrow for Willie.

967
01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:26.599
<v Speaker 1>Hey wanted to let you know before we break at

968
01:00:26.599 --> 01:00:28.519
<v Speaker 1>eleven o'clock and we're going to have him for the

969
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:32.599
<v Speaker 1>full hour and he's accepting calls. JT. Townsend. We're going

970
01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:36.239
<v Speaker 1>to talk about the John Benet Ramsey case. And it's

971
01:00:36.360 --> 01:00:41.880
<v Speaker 1>relevant because twenty eight years ago, yesterday, Christmas Night, nineteen

972
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:47.320
<v Speaker 1>ninety six, she was brutally brutally murdered a six year

973
01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:51.320
<v Speaker 1>old little girl. And new documentary out on Netflix that

974
01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:55.079
<v Speaker 1>I think is shedding some light on this. I don't

975
01:00:55.119 --> 01:00:57.400
<v Speaker 1>know that well, I do know. I don't think it's

976
01:00:57.440 --> 01:01:00.559
<v Speaker 1>going to lead to any kind of conviction or anything.

977
01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:03.840
<v Speaker 1>But in these kind of and JT. I'll ask him

978
01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:08.079
<v Speaker 1>about this. Sometimes people just want answers. So anyway, we

979
01:01:08.119 --> 01:01:12.280
<v Speaker 1>will talk to JT. Townsend when we get back. Mike

980
01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:16.840
<v Speaker 1>Allen in for Okay, we're still going here. We're gonna

981
01:01:16.840 --> 01:01:20.239
<v Speaker 1>get a Bengals report in just a few seconds here.

982
01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:25.039
<v Speaker 1>So that's why I have to ramble on. You know

983
01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:28.039
<v Speaker 1>one thing, there is no way that I can get

984
01:01:28.039 --> 01:01:33.119
<v Speaker 1>through this whole show without just a little bit of politics.

985
01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:36.679
<v Speaker 1>Axios came out with something a couple of weeks ago,

986
01:01:37.719 --> 01:01:42.719
<v Speaker 1>Democrats more likely to reduce family time over politics. Listen

987
01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:46.360
<v Speaker 1>to this who says that they will reduce time with

988
01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:49.840
<v Speaker 1>family due to political differences. And this is something that,

989
01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:56.599
<v Speaker 1>without getting into detail, I'm dealing with in my family. Well, no, surprise.

990
01:01:56.800 --> 01:02:02.719
<v Speaker 1>Democrats leading the pack at twenty three percent, Republicans all

991
01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:07.360
<v Speaker 1>the way back at five percent, doesn't surprise me a

992
01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:11.639
<v Speaker 1>darn bit. And again with respect to Democrats and the

993
01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:16.599
<v Speaker 1>left in particular, it's arrogance. You know, they think they're

994
01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:21.199
<v Speaker 1>right about everything. Doesn't surprise me at all. All voters

995
01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:27.000
<v Speaker 1>twelve percent and independence eleven percent. And I'll tell you

996
01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:30.800
<v Speaker 1>something that is something that's going on in a lot

997
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:35.679
<v Speaker 1>of families, and you just heard it. You just heard it.

998
01:02:35.800 --> 01:02:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Overwhelmingly more Democrats are saying, hey, I don't want to

999
01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:43.320
<v Speaker 1>spend any time with you over the holidays because you

1000
01:02:43.599 --> 01:02:47.679
<v Speaker 1>voted for the evil Orange Man. And it's really just

1001
01:02:47.719 --> 01:02:51.960
<v Speaker 1>a shame. I mean it is, I don't know. It

1002
01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:56.199
<v Speaker 1>doesn't surprise me at all. And again this is from Axios.

1003
01:02:56.840 --> 01:03:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Listen to this too. Democrats are are almost five times

1004
01:03:02.039 --> 01:03:06.639
<v Speaker 1>as likely. Let me do another one. Democrats are now

1005
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:11.480
<v Speaker 1>much more likely to view Republican Party as a serious

1006
01:03:11.599 --> 01:03:15.559
<v Speaker 1>threat to the country then they were in twenty sixteen.

1007
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Of course, that was before Trump was elected. It was

1008
01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:26.719
<v Speaker 1>fifty percent back in twenty sixteen versus eighty one percent. Now,

1009
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:28.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, you want to talk about a threat to

1010
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:32.960
<v Speaker 1>the country, maybe Democrats in the left in general ought

1011
01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:36.800
<v Speaker 1>to just kind look to the other side or take

1012
01:03:36.800 --> 01:03:40.400
<v Speaker 1>a look in the mirror. I guess Republicans more likely

1013
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:45.159
<v Speaker 1>to view the Democratic Party as a serious threat. Republican

1014
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:49.960
<v Speaker 1>but it's only six percent. That was twenty sixteen. It's

1015
01:03:50.039 --> 01:03:54.079
<v Speaker 1>kind of up there in twenty twenty four, sixty nine percent.

1016
01:03:54.960 --> 01:03:57.679
<v Speaker 1>And I'll tell you what. We've stayed off of politics

1017
01:03:57.760 --> 01:04:01.840
<v Speaker 1>today for the most part. Will be back at it Saturday.

1018
01:04:02.039 --> 01:04:05.000
<v Speaker 1>There is so much going on, friends, And I said,

1019
01:04:05.760 --> 01:04:11.519
<v Speaker 1>and I meant, I meant that this election, the twenty

1020
01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:16.639
<v Speaker 1>twenty four election, was the most important election in my lifetime.

1021
01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:22.199
<v Speaker 1>And everything went it could have. We could have we

1022
01:04:22.239 --> 01:04:25.480
<v Speaker 1>could have beefed up our majority in the House somewhat,

1023
01:04:26.159 --> 01:04:30.360
<v Speaker 1>but everything went pretty darn good. And guess what, it's

1024
01:04:30.519 --> 01:04:35.360
<v Speaker 1>our turn and we got to come through. I don't understand,

1025
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:40.280
<v Speaker 1>I swear I don't understand the backbiting and the going

1026
01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:44.599
<v Speaker 1>back and forth with Republicans over all this budget stuff.

1027
01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:50.199
<v Speaker 1>It would seem to me to be an exercise in

1028
01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:54.360
<v Speaker 1>being able to count. And we're running the show now,

1029
01:04:54.440 --> 01:04:58.199
<v Speaker 1>and it looks bad for us to be divided on

1030
01:04:58.280 --> 01:05:01.519
<v Speaker 1>those things. And it's going to be really interesting too

1031
01:05:01.559 --> 01:05:05.079
<v Speaker 1>to see Trump's cabinet picks. If he gets every one

1032
01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:06.960
<v Speaker 1>of them through, I don't think he ever would have

1033
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:11.159
<v Speaker 1>got dates through after what's coming out on him. Anyway,

1034
01:05:11.719 --> 01:05:13.480
<v Speaker 1>Now we got to take a break, but we'll be

1035
01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:17.119
<v Speaker 1>back with JT. Townsend Mike Allen in for Willy Conningham

1036
01:05:17.199 --> 01:05:24.000
<v Speaker 1>seven hundred WLWA Mike Allen in for Willy Cunningham, and

1037
01:05:24.039 --> 01:05:31.320
<v Speaker 1>I will be tomorrow as well and next Wednesday. Well,

1038
01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:34.159
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you, like I said before the break, the

1039
01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:41.559
<v Speaker 1>John Bena Ramsey horrible, horrible murder. She was killed twenty

1040
01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:46.239
<v Speaker 1>eight years ago from last night Christmas Night in nineteen

1041
01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:51.960
<v Speaker 1>ninety six. There is a new Netflix documentary which is excellent.

1042
01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:54.360
<v Speaker 1>I saw it I think about a month ago. That's

1043
01:05:54.960 --> 01:05:58.639
<v Speaker 1>raising questions and there are a lot of questions that

1044
01:05:58.760 --> 01:06:04.920
<v Speaker 1>still linger about this case. Did an intruder murderer bent

1045
01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:09.119
<v Speaker 1>on kidnapping or molesting her? Or was she killed by

1046
01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:13.639
<v Speaker 1>a family member, either with malice or accidentally. Some people

1047
01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:17.719
<v Speaker 1>think it was accidentally. Was this a personal cause homicide?

1048
01:06:18.239 --> 01:06:22.320
<v Speaker 1>Was it a kidnapping for ransom gone wrong, a lust murder,

1049
01:06:22.360 --> 01:06:26.840
<v Speaker 1>a conspiracy or all of the above. Here to talk

1050
01:06:26.880 --> 01:06:29.960
<v Speaker 1>about it today and take your calls if you want to.

1051
01:06:30.519 --> 01:06:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Is true crime historian extraordinary j T. Townsend. JT is

1052
01:06:36.079 --> 01:06:40.559
<v Speaker 1>the author of many books. His last one, Summer's Almost Gone,

1053
01:06:40.679 --> 01:06:45.079
<v Speaker 1>It was about the brutal, brutal murder of the entire

1054
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:50.119
<v Speaker 1>three member brick A family back in nineteen sixty six.

1055
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:52.719
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you, I say it every time he's on,

1056
01:06:52.840 --> 01:06:55.360
<v Speaker 1>and I mean it. It was one of the best

1057
01:06:55.400 --> 01:06:59.519
<v Speaker 1>books I've ever read. I read it in one weekend,

1058
01:07:00.039 --> 01:07:03.960
<v Speaker 1>couldn't put it down. So if you're in too true crime,

1059
01:07:05.199 --> 01:07:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Summer's Almost Gone is the book that you should get.

1060
01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:11.800
<v Speaker 1>But we're not talking about that today. We're talking about

1061
01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:16.280
<v Speaker 1>John Benney and JT. Thank you so much for joining us.

1062
01:07:17.440 --> 01:07:19.800
<v Speaker 4>Thank you. My call is a pleasure to be on

1063
01:07:19.840 --> 01:07:20.199
<v Speaker 4>with you.

1064
01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:22.800
<v Speaker 1>You're hearing me, okay, I'm hearing you loud and clear.

1065
01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:26.719
<v Speaker 1>But I did tell one little fib there, JT. I

1066
01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:28.800
<v Speaker 1>do want you to bring us up to date on

1067
01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:32.320
<v Speaker 1>the brick And murders, if there is anything to bring

1068
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:34.800
<v Speaker 1>us up to date on. I had John a couple

1069
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:37.400
<v Speaker 1>of weeks ago, and it didn't sound like there was.

1070
01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:44.960
<v Speaker 4>It's coming down to DNA and whether there is enough

1071
01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:50.119
<v Speaker 4>evidence in DNA left to run another test. I've spoken

1072
01:07:50.159 --> 01:07:52.760
<v Speaker 4>with the coroner. They seem to be reluctant to use

1073
01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:57.480
<v Speaker 4>what little they have left to make another attempt. But

1074
01:07:58.159 --> 01:08:02.199
<v Speaker 4>we're still working on that, and I will be offering

1075
01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:06.719
<v Speaker 4>a coupon code to buy Somemmer's Almost Gone here at

1076
01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:09.440
<v Speaker 4>the end of our at the end of our time here.

1077
01:08:09.599 --> 01:08:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, make sure you remind me JT because I will.

1078
01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:15.039
<v Speaker 1>I want to get that book in as many hands

1079
01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:19.279
<v Speaker 1>as possible, because, like I said, it's excellent. Let me

1080
01:08:19.319 --> 01:08:22.239
<v Speaker 1>ask you this, getting back to John Beney, I really,

1081
01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:25.399
<v Speaker 1>I mean obviously I read things about it, but didn't

1082
01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:31.319
<v Speaker 1>take much of an interest in it until that Netflix documentary.

1083
01:08:32.119 --> 01:08:34.520
<v Speaker 1>What interested you in this case?

1084
01:08:36.159 --> 01:08:41.000
<v Speaker 4>Oh boy, I tell you, Mike, this is really one

1085
01:08:41.039 --> 01:08:44.720
<v Speaker 4>for the books. I think what got me initially was

1086
01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:50.520
<v Speaker 4>the fact it was a statistical aberration. The FBI did

1087
01:08:50.520 --> 01:08:53.840
<v Speaker 4>a study of seventeen hundred child kidnappings for ransom of

1088
01:08:53.880 --> 01:08:58.520
<v Speaker 4>the nineteen nineties, and in only one case was the

1089
01:08:58.600 --> 01:09:02.000
<v Speaker 4>victim found murdered in their own home, and that's John

1090
01:09:02.039 --> 01:09:07.880
<v Speaker 4>Benay Ramsay. Really one case out of seventeen hundred where

1091
01:09:07.920 --> 01:09:12.359
<v Speaker 4>the victim was found murdered in their own home, and

1092
01:09:12.399 --> 01:09:15.239
<v Speaker 4>then I just I saw that, and I'm like, wow,

1093
01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:19.520
<v Speaker 4>this really does stand alone. And then you look at

1094
01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:22.359
<v Speaker 4>the numbers. About only six percent of child murders are

1095
01:09:22.359 --> 01:09:26.560
<v Speaker 4>committed by strangers. Family members commit about fifty four percent,

1096
01:09:27.680 --> 01:09:33.760
<v Speaker 4>family friends maybe another twenty percent. So it appeared, at

1097
01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:37.680
<v Speaker 4>least initially that this was an inside job, as most

1098
01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:41.920
<v Speaker 4>of them are. But you've got this wealthy family and

1099
01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:48.399
<v Speaker 4>an elite, upscale neighborhood, and you've got the police and

1100
01:09:48.439 --> 01:09:54.000
<v Speaker 4>the prosecutors at odds, you've got two separate investigations going on,

1101
01:09:54.159 --> 01:09:57.560
<v Speaker 4>you've got very little cooperation, and then you have at

1102
01:09:57.560 --> 01:10:03.399
<v Speaker 4>the heart of it, this beautiful child. This spawn her murder,

1103
01:10:03.479 --> 01:10:12.199
<v Speaker 4>spawned epic media coverage, sessive national fixation, Her picture was everywhere. Yeah,

1104
01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:14.239
<v Speaker 4>I guess that's when I started getting interested in it.

1105
01:10:14.359 --> 01:10:16.239
<v Speaker 4>I have not seen the Netflix.

1106
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:22.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I'd be interested to know your thoughts on

1107
01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:25.960
<v Speaker 1>it sometime. Well, I thought it was very well done.

1108
01:10:26.079 --> 01:10:29.039
<v Speaker 4>I thought, you know, I'm gonna have to watch it.

1109
01:10:31.079 --> 01:10:35.600
<v Speaker 4>I'll be honest with you, Mike, Uh, I think Netflix

1110
01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:40.840
<v Speaker 4>sucks at true crime really. Uh, Stephen Avery, The Making

1111
01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:44.439
<v Speaker 4>of a Murderer, That that big case of the guy

1112
01:10:44.479 --> 01:10:48.479
<v Speaker 4>who murdered Teresa Hallbach at his uh at his Junkyard

1113
01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:49.159
<v Speaker 4>car lot.

1114
01:10:49.720 --> 01:10:50.479
<v Speaker 1>I didn't see that.

1115
01:10:51.319 --> 01:10:53.520
<v Speaker 4>Uh, well, this was a big sensation a couple of

1116
01:10:53.560 --> 01:10:57.960
<v Speaker 4>years ago. Everybody now thinks this guy is innocent, and

1117
01:10:58.000 --> 01:11:01.520
<v Speaker 4>I've looked at that case. Uh, he's been convicted of it.

1118
01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:04.479
<v Speaker 4>They had tons of evidence to suggest he had done it.

1119
01:11:05.680 --> 01:11:09.520
<v Speaker 4>They had his nephew link him to it and then recan't.

1120
01:11:10.479 --> 01:11:16.000
<v Speaker 4>But Netflix was all over this. They used confirmation bias,

1121
01:11:16.119 --> 01:11:18.960
<v Speaker 4>They started with the idea he was innocent and then

1122
01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:23.239
<v Speaker 4>build a case around him. So I'm not real thrilled

1123
01:11:23.880 --> 01:11:26.920
<v Speaker 4>with how Netflix does true crime, but.

1124
01:11:26.920 --> 01:11:31.239
<v Speaker 1>It seems to me that that documentary has kind of

1125
01:11:31.239 --> 01:11:34.399
<v Speaker 1>put this thing back in the public view, for better

1126
01:11:34.760 --> 01:11:38.159
<v Speaker 1>or worse. I mean, you got this thing down cold.

1127
01:11:38.239 --> 01:11:42.239
<v Speaker 1>You provided me with pages and pages of research that

1128
01:11:42.479 --> 01:11:46.319
<v Speaker 1>you did, so I don't know. Maybe this will kind

1129
01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:52.920
<v Speaker 1>of spawn some kind of additional investigation or do they

1130
01:11:53.479 --> 01:11:55.479
<v Speaker 1>Is there any way that this thing is going to

1131
01:11:55.520 --> 01:11:57.600
<v Speaker 1>be kind of brought up again.

1132
01:11:59.119 --> 01:12:01.319
<v Speaker 4>Well, I don't think it's going to be solved, and

1133
01:12:01.359 --> 01:12:05.439
<v Speaker 4>we've got to We've got two warring factions here now, Mike.

1134
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:10.319
<v Speaker 4>We've got all the circumstantial evidence that suggests the Ramses

1135
01:12:10.319 --> 01:12:14.359
<v Speaker 4>were involved. But now apparently we have DNA evidence unknown

1136
01:12:14.439 --> 01:12:18.600
<v Speaker 4>DNA found under her fingernail and underpants John Benet's that

1137
01:12:19.199 --> 01:12:24.319
<v Speaker 4>indicate an intruder. So we're really seems like we're at

1138
01:12:24.319 --> 01:12:29.920
<v Speaker 4>an impasse. Mike, I tell you you're a prosecutor. I really

1139
01:12:29.960 --> 01:12:35.680
<v Speaker 4>am sad about the denigration of circumstantial evidence as a

1140
01:12:35.800 --> 01:12:40.520
<v Speaker 4>valuable evidence. I mean, how many times you know, direct

1141
01:12:40.520 --> 01:12:45.199
<v Speaker 4>evidence somebody saw defendant enter a house, they saw him

1142
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:49.319
<v Speaker 4>stab somebody BINGO. But if you see the person enter

1143
01:12:49.359 --> 01:12:51.399
<v Speaker 4>the house, you hear screaming, and you see the guy

1144
01:12:51.479 --> 01:12:56.279
<v Speaker 4>leaving with a bloody knife, that's circumstantial and you need

1145
01:12:56.319 --> 01:13:00.279
<v Speaker 4>to have an inference and interpretation and an implication because

1146
01:13:00.279 --> 01:13:05.359
<v Speaker 4>it's not obvious that this is direct evidence. But you know,

1147
01:13:05.439 --> 01:13:11.119
<v Speaker 4>I I like a writer. I used to like Edmund Pearson.

1148
01:13:11.159 --> 01:13:13.680
<v Speaker 4>He wrote about the Lizzie Borden case. He had a

1149
01:13:13.720 --> 01:13:17.680
<v Speaker 4>great quote about circumstantial evidence. When seven or eight clear

1150
01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:22.039
<v Speaker 4>items of circumstantial evidence point directly to the guilt of

1151
01:13:22.079 --> 01:13:26.920
<v Speaker 4>a person, that person is innocent nowhere but in the

1152
01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:31.119
<v Speaker 4>detective novel. Yeah, you know, and you begin to think,

1153
01:13:31.239 --> 01:13:34.960
<v Speaker 4>how could someone be this unlucky to have this many

1154
01:13:35.039 --> 01:13:39.399
<v Speaker 4>coincidences and circumstances pointing at them and still be innocent.

1155
01:13:39.920 --> 01:13:42.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's the criminal defense lawyer to point out and

1156
01:13:43.159 --> 01:13:49.399
<v Speaker 1>sometimes say, with not one hundred percent accuracy, if you will,

1157
01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:55.319
<v Speaker 1>that circumstantial evidence is not very valuable in the real world.

1158
01:13:55.479 --> 01:13:59.319
<v Speaker 1>It is. It is, absolutely if you have enough of it,

1159
01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:02.279
<v Speaker 1>you can get a conviction. I've been on both sides

1160
01:14:02.920 --> 01:14:07.159
<v Speaker 1>of that fence, and I just think there's a lot

1161
01:14:07.199 --> 01:14:10.880
<v Speaker 1>of circumstantial evidence here. I'm gonna wait till the end

1162
01:14:10.920 --> 01:14:16.159
<v Speaker 1>to ask you this sixty four thousand dollars question your thoughts. JT. Townsend.

1163
01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:19.399
<v Speaker 1>And you've done so many of these things. Uh, and

1164
01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:23.840
<v Speaker 1>summer's almost gone. I've talked about that, just broke it down,

1165
01:14:23.920 --> 01:14:28.800
<v Speaker 1>the investigation, the mistakes that were made, so well, just

1166
01:14:28.880 --> 01:14:33.159
<v Speaker 1>give us your thoughts in general on the investigation of

1167
01:14:33.239 --> 01:14:33.840
<v Speaker 1>this case.

1168
01:14:35.800 --> 01:14:39.159
<v Speaker 4>Well, Mike, this has got to be that's got to

1169
01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:47.119
<v Speaker 4>be the most botched criminal investigation I've ever seen. Crime

1170
01:14:47.159 --> 01:14:50.640
<v Speaker 4>scene protocol, Mike, secure the scene, separate the witnesses, search

1171
01:14:50.680 --> 01:14:55.199
<v Speaker 4>for evidence, secure and collect evidence. It was like a

1172
01:14:55.319 --> 01:14:56.800
<v Speaker 4>Roman circus at that house.

1173
01:14:57.000 --> 01:14:57.640
<v Speaker 1>Unbelievable.

1174
01:14:58.199 --> 01:15:02.800
<v Speaker 4>The Ramses called all their friends, people came over there

1175
01:15:02.800 --> 01:15:07.560
<v Speaker 4>were like twenty people in this house. The protocol separating

1176
01:15:07.560 --> 01:15:12.399
<v Speaker 4>the witnesses and clearing the scene was not done.

1177
01:15:12.640 --> 01:15:15.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I tell you. And it just goes on and

1178
01:15:15.199 --> 01:15:18.319
<v Speaker 1>on and on, and you talk about everybody trapesing through

1179
01:15:18.359 --> 01:15:21.359
<v Speaker 1>the crime scene. It kind of reminds me of Brica.

1180
01:15:21.880 --> 01:15:27.239
<v Speaker 1>But that was nineteen sixty six, and right, investigators, I

1181
01:15:27.319 --> 01:15:31.680
<v Speaker 1>weren't I guess as well trained then as they are now.

1182
01:15:32.520 --> 01:15:36.880
<v Speaker 1>It's hard to believe how badly they screwed up that

1183
01:15:37.000 --> 01:15:37.800
<v Speaker 1>crime scene.

1184
01:15:39.239 --> 01:15:43.479
<v Speaker 4>Oh it really is. You know, we can almost start

1185
01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:48.840
<v Speaker 4>at the beginning of this thing. Mike Patsy Ramsey's nine

1186
01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:53.760
<v Speaker 4>one one call. Yeah, and we've seen this before. I

1187
01:15:53.800 --> 01:15:56.720
<v Speaker 4>think of Ryan Widmer with his wife in the bathtub

1188
01:15:57.520 --> 01:16:00.479
<v Speaker 4>and how he immediately said, oh my god, my wife

1189
01:16:00.520 --> 01:16:02.319
<v Speaker 4>fell asleep in the bathtub and drowned.

1190
01:16:02.479 --> 01:16:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

1191
01:16:03.319 --> 01:16:06.159
<v Speaker 4>Will you try and out your your your alibi here, buddy?

1192
01:16:07.039 --> 01:16:09.199
<v Speaker 4>You know how about my wife passed out? I don't

1193
01:16:09.199 --> 01:16:13.279
<v Speaker 4>know what happened, But Patsy immediately said on the nine

1194
01:16:13.359 --> 01:16:18.199
<v Speaker 4>one one call, we have a kidnapping. How about my

1195
01:16:18.359 --> 01:16:19.199
<v Speaker 4>daughter's missing?

1196
01:16:21.039 --> 01:16:24.399
<v Speaker 1>Help Because they hadn't discovered the body at.

1197
01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:29.560
<v Speaker 4>That point, they had not discovered the body Police respond, Mike,

1198
01:16:29.680 --> 01:16:33.279
<v Speaker 4>she is dressed in the same outfit she had on

1199
01:16:33.680 --> 01:16:37.720
<v Speaker 4>the night before at a party, exact same clothing, hair

1200
01:16:37.760 --> 01:16:43.960
<v Speaker 4>and makeup flawless. And it would imply this woman didn't

1201
01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:47.039
<v Speaker 4>go to bed the night her daughter was murdered in

1202
01:16:47.079 --> 01:16:47.600
<v Speaker 4>her house.

1203
01:16:48.039 --> 01:16:48.279
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

1204
01:16:49.600 --> 01:16:53.039
<v Speaker 4>And it just, you know, it just kind of goes

1205
01:16:53.159 --> 01:16:58.399
<v Speaker 4>on from there. Her language in the nine to one

1206
01:16:58.520 --> 01:17:06.520
<v Speaker 4>one call is very unusual. She expressed no concern, none

1207
01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:11.239
<v Speaker 4>for her daughter at any time, what John Bennet might

1208
01:17:11.319 --> 01:17:18.720
<v Speaker 4>be going through. And she says things like she is blonde.

1209
01:17:18.920 --> 01:17:21.279
<v Speaker 4>I'm not sure what that had to do with anything.

1210
01:17:21.920 --> 01:17:26.800
<v Speaker 4>The phrase I am the mother, not I am her mother,

1211
01:17:27.000 --> 01:17:30.399
<v Speaker 4>I am the mother. I mean that sounds like she

1212
01:17:30.439 --> 01:17:32.039
<v Speaker 4>already knows John Benet's dead.

1213
01:17:32.640 --> 01:17:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense. And what

1214
01:17:34.960 --> 01:17:38.760
<v Speaker 1>you're saying is absolutely right. It's not what you would

1215
01:17:38.840 --> 01:17:42.159
<v Speaker 1>normally expect you'd get on a nine to one one

1216
01:17:42.199 --> 01:17:45.640
<v Speaker 1>call from the mother of a child who's missing.

1217
01:17:46.399 --> 01:17:49.960
<v Speaker 4>She should have been hysterical, and yet she said a

1218
01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:52.840
<v Speaker 4>couple of times, help me Jesus. She seemed to want

1219
01:17:52.880 --> 01:17:56.439
<v Speaker 4>a lot of help for herself. There is no concern

1220
01:17:56.520 --> 01:18:01.159
<v Speaker 4>for her daughter's welfare, expressed at any time during this

1221
01:18:01.359 --> 01:18:03.680
<v Speaker 4>nine to one one call. And I find this odd.

1222
01:18:05.399 --> 01:18:07.840
<v Speaker 4>She talks about the ransom note and we need to

1223
01:18:07.880 --> 01:18:13.479
<v Speaker 4>get into that. And she said it says SBTC Victory.

1224
01:18:14.199 --> 01:18:18.399
<v Speaker 4>Well that was page three. But she told the nine

1225
01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:21.479
<v Speaker 4>to one on operator that she hadn't actually read the note.

1226
01:18:22.359 --> 01:18:25.720
<v Speaker 4>But somehow she was able to quote page three on

1227
01:18:25.800 --> 01:18:28.640
<v Speaker 4>the nine to one one call without having read the note.

1228
01:18:29.800 --> 01:18:35.960
<v Speaker 4>And more that note, I have never seen a more

1229
01:18:36.079 --> 01:18:39.760
<v Speaker 4>bizarre clue in true crime history.

1230
01:18:40.039 --> 01:18:43.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree with you, And as you accurately point out,

1231
01:18:44.199 --> 01:18:48.079
<v Speaker 1>in those kind of cases kidnappings, if you will, they

1232
01:18:48.079 --> 01:18:52.479
<v Speaker 1>don't write a three page note. It's probably three sentences.

1233
01:18:52.840 --> 01:18:56.119
<v Speaker 1>I've got your daughter, I want X amount of money.

1234
01:18:56.359 --> 01:18:58.119
<v Speaker 1>If you don't give it to me, she dies.

1235
01:18:58.640 --> 01:19:01.479
<v Speaker 4>Don't call anybody that of thing. So if we've got

1236
01:19:01.479 --> 01:19:05.840
<v Speaker 4>a kidnapper, it's a short note. If indeed this is

1237
01:19:05.880 --> 01:19:11.159
<v Speaker 4>an intruder pedophile, we've got no note. Now I've got

1238
01:19:11.199 --> 01:19:13.319
<v Speaker 4>the note. I've got the note up on my screen

1239
01:19:13.399 --> 01:19:19.000
<v Speaker 4>right here from my PowerPoint. This thing is is just

1240
01:19:19.760 --> 01:19:21.840
<v Speaker 4>you know, I could probably go on and on just

1241
01:19:21.920 --> 01:19:22.880
<v Speaker 4>about this note.

1242
01:19:23.039 --> 01:19:25.279
<v Speaker 1>Well, tell us about it in general. We got about

1243
01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:29.000
<v Speaker 1>three minutes before we have to break for the news,

1244
01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:31.119
<v Speaker 1>so I wanted to get into that too.

1245
01:19:31.239 --> 01:19:34.600
<v Speaker 4>JT tell us about what we need to it's probably

1246
01:19:34.640 --> 01:19:39.640
<v Speaker 4>the most valuable clue DNA notwithstanding, and I understand today

1247
01:19:40.079 --> 01:19:43.880
<v Speaker 4>the CSI effect. Everybody's like, well, what's the DNA say?

1248
01:19:43.920 --> 01:19:48.119
<v Speaker 4>What's the DNA say? I'm a circumstantial evidence guy myself.

1249
01:19:50.279 --> 01:19:56.520
<v Speaker 4>We talked about the note being so long. They call

1250
01:19:56.600 --> 01:20:01.880
<v Speaker 4>themselves a small foreign faction. Who calls themselves a foreigner?

1251
01:20:02.560 --> 01:20:02.640
<v Speaker 2>Ye?

1252
01:20:03.560 --> 01:20:05.199
<v Speaker 4>Are you a foreigner to yourself?

1253
01:20:05.720 --> 01:20:06.359
<v Speaker 1>Bizarre?

1254
01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:11.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? And withdraw one hundred and eighteen thousand from the account,

1255
01:20:11.359 --> 01:20:13.800
<v Speaker 4>why not just say get the money, you know? And

1256
01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:17.079
<v Speaker 4>why such a small amount? Bring an adequate size attest

1257
01:20:17.159 --> 01:20:21.680
<v Speaker 4>shay case, and I advise you to be rested. Why

1258
01:20:21.720 --> 01:20:23.079
<v Speaker 4>are they concerned about that?

1259
01:20:23.359 --> 01:20:26.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, and you point out too that the one hundred

1260
01:20:26.119 --> 01:20:31.119
<v Speaker 1>and eighteen thousand dollars amount just happens to and maybe

1261
01:20:31.119 --> 01:20:36.000
<v Speaker 1>it is a coincidence, coincide with what John Ramsey the

1262
01:20:36.520 --> 01:20:38.600
<v Speaker 1>boss that you've got that's.

1263
01:20:38.479 --> 01:20:41.079
<v Speaker 4>Weir bonus, and then we've got the we've got the

1264
01:20:41.199 --> 01:20:45.000
<v Speaker 4>she dies as mentioned four times. That's absolutely from the

1265
01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:46.000
<v Speaker 4>movie Dirty Harry.

1266
01:20:46.159 --> 01:20:47.600
<v Speaker 1>I know exactly got you're.

1267
01:20:47.439 --> 01:20:51.800
<v Speaker 4>Talking to a stray dog. She dies John Don't try

1268
01:20:51.840 --> 01:20:56.119
<v Speaker 4>to grow a brain. That's from the movie Speed. John

1269
01:20:56.159 --> 01:20:59.720
<v Speaker 4>Maney is never mentioned by name. They're warned not to

1270
01:20:59.800 --> 01:21:05.439
<v Speaker 4>contact anyone or Jean Benet will be beheaded. They contacted everyone, yep,

1271
01:21:06.279 --> 01:21:08.800
<v Speaker 4>and the note said the kidnappers would call between eight

1272
01:21:08.840 --> 01:21:11.479
<v Speaker 4>and eleven. Yet the officer on scene said, no one

1273
01:21:11.520 --> 01:21:15.279
<v Speaker 4>seemed to be expecting a call. But Mike, here's the one.

1274
01:21:16.239 --> 01:21:20.119
<v Speaker 4>Here's the one, and that gets me the most. The

1275
01:21:20.239 --> 01:21:25.720
<v Speaker 4>kidnapper used the phrase, and hence, yeah, that is now

1276
01:21:25.760 --> 01:21:29.439
<v Speaker 4>that is incorrect. It would be hints and hence is

1277
01:21:29.720 --> 01:21:34.159
<v Speaker 4>a duplicate nation, a double negative, so to speak. That's incorrect.

1278
01:21:34.199 --> 01:21:37.239
<v Speaker 4>It's very uncommon. I mean, Mike Coffin, you say, and

1279
01:21:37.359 --> 01:21:41.239
<v Speaker 4>hence when was the last time you used that word?

1280
01:21:42.399 --> 01:21:47.239
<v Speaker 4>But three days earlier, in a Christmas card that she sent,

1281
01:21:48.000 --> 01:21:51.680
<v Speaker 4>Patsy uses the phrase, and hence.

1282
01:21:52.439 --> 01:21:54.760
<v Speaker 1>They got strong JT. I really do.

1283
01:21:55.279 --> 01:21:57.479
<v Speaker 4>I mean, you're not going to get an indictment on that,

1284
01:21:58.119 --> 01:22:02.359
<v Speaker 4>but in the court of circumstantial evidence, and hence she

1285
01:22:02.520 --> 01:22:04.880
<v Speaker 4>puts it in a Christmas card in three days later.

1286
01:22:05.640 --> 01:22:09.880
<v Speaker 4>It's on the ransom note yep. And some of the

1287
01:22:09.920 --> 01:22:17.279
<v Speaker 4>other verbiage at tahe deviation. There's a lot of educated

1288
01:22:17.359 --> 01:22:21.600
<v Speaker 4>kind of words there, yep in this thing. And there

1289
01:22:21.680 --> 01:22:25.520
<v Speaker 4>was a practice note on the pad where it was written.

1290
01:22:25.640 --> 01:22:29.640
<v Speaker 4>It was Patsy's pad. Five of her fingerprints were on

1291
01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:34.520
<v Speaker 4>that pad. The pen used to write the note was

1292
01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:37.680
<v Speaker 4>put back in a cup on the kitchen counter. Mature

1293
01:22:37.720 --> 01:22:40.119
<v Speaker 4>an intruder would put it back in the cup.

1294
01:22:40.279 --> 01:22:42.279
<v Speaker 1>No, hey, listen, we got to take a break for

1295
01:22:42.359 --> 01:22:44.920
<v Speaker 1>the news, but we got the whole next segment, JT,

1296
01:22:45.319 --> 01:22:46.760
<v Speaker 1>can you hang in there with us?

1297
01:22:47.079 --> 01:22:48.119
<v Speaker 4>I will hang in.

1298
01:22:48.079 --> 01:22:52.239
<v Speaker 1>Okay, great, thank you, Yeah, and we will finish talking

1299
01:22:52.399 --> 01:22:56.479
<v Speaker 1>with JT. Towns and about this case when we got back.

1300
01:22:56.600 --> 01:22:59.079
<v Speaker 1>And if you want to ask JT a question, he

1301
01:22:59.119 --> 01:23:02.920
<v Speaker 1>said he would do that. Seven four nine, seven thousand, one,

1302
01:23:03.000 --> 01:23:06.479
<v Speaker 1>eight hundred. The big one are the numbers. Mike Allen

1303
01:23:06.560 --> 01:23:17.119
<v Speaker 1>in for Willie Cunningham seven hundred WLW Hey, we're back

1304
01:23:17.560 --> 01:23:24.359
<v Speaker 1>Mike Allen in for Willie Cunningham on the day after Christmas.

1305
01:23:24.399 --> 01:23:27.239
<v Speaker 1>And well, this has been an interesting segment. We're going

1306
01:23:27.319 --> 01:23:31.840
<v Speaker 1>to start it up again. We are talking to JT. Townshend.

1307
01:23:31.920 --> 01:23:36.039
<v Speaker 1>JT is a true crime historian about the John Bena

1308
01:23:36.239 --> 01:23:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Ramsey case relevant for any number of reasons, but one

1309
01:23:39.640 --> 01:23:44.359
<v Speaker 1>is which is she was killed twenty eight years ago.

1310
01:23:44.600 --> 01:23:47.600
<v Speaker 1>Last night, she would be I believe thirty four years

1311
01:23:47.600 --> 01:23:51.479
<v Speaker 1>old now, JT. We have a couple of questions, and

1312
01:23:51.760 --> 01:23:53.880
<v Speaker 1>I promised the callers I'm going to get to them.

1313
01:23:54.279 --> 01:23:57.199
<v Speaker 1>But there's a couple of points that you wanted to make. First.

1314
01:23:58.039 --> 01:24:02.680
<v Speaker 4>Well, let me let me sum up out the note.

1315
01:24:02.920 --> 01:24:06.159
<v Speaker 4>You know, they've never they said the handwriting was similar

1316
01:24:06.199 --> 01:24:11.239
<v Speaker 4>to Patsy. No one's ever specifically indicated she was the writer.

1317
01:24:11.880 --> 01:24:15.760
<v Speaker 4>Colorado Bureau of Investigation expert claimed the twenty four of

1318
01:24:15.800 --> 01:24:20.600
<v Speaker 4>the twenty six letters in the alphabet from the ransom

1319
01:24:20.640 --> 01:24:25.079
<v Speaker 4>note matched her own handwriting. But here's the thing. I've

1320
01:24:25.119 --> 01:24:27.680
<v Speaker 4>never heard anyone say this, Mike, but me, and I'm

1321
01:24:27.720 --> 01:24:30.560
<v Speaker 4>looking here. Write at the note. She wrote it with

1322
01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:35.880
<v Speaker 4>her left hand. It's very wavy on the first page,

1323
01:24:36.920 --> 01:24:40.119
<v Speaker 4>and then it gets better as it goes on. And

1324
01:24:40.359 --> 01:24:42.800
<v Speaker 4>if you're write with your off hand, you're going to

1325
01:24:42.840 --> 01:24:47.520
<v Speaker 4>see that wavering in the letters. And I don't understand

1326
01:24:47.560 --> 01:24:50.119
<v Speaker 4>why anybody didn't really take a look at that that

1327
01:24:50.159 --> 01:24:52.520
<v Speaker 4>you could have written it with the off hand, because

1328
01:24:52.520 --> 01:24:55.600
<v Speaker 4>it certainly looks at it when you see how squiggly

1329
01:24:56.600 --> 01:25:00.800
<v Speaker 4>the characters are in that. And if she wrote the note, Mike,

1330
01:25:01.800 --> 01:25:06.039
<v Speaker 4>why no got either she killed John man Ay or

1331
01:25:06.079 --> 01:25:09.319
<v Speaker 4>her husband did, or Burke did, or some combination. And

1332
01:25:09.359 --> 01:25:13.319
<v Speaker 4>this is that note is classic staging, trying to divert

1333
01:25:13.760 --> 01:25:16.520
<v Speaker 4>the police away from the real criminal.

1334
01:25:17.359 --> 01:25:20.760
<v Speaker 1>I got it. Anything else you want to get across

1335
01:25:20.840 --> 01:25:21.800
<v Speaker 1>before we.

1336
01:25:21.680 --> 01:25:28.279
<v Speaker 4>Take callers only John Ramsey's unusual behavior. At no point

1337
01:25:28.520 --> 01:25:31.720
<v Speaker 4>during this vigil waiting for the kidnapper call was he

1338
01:25:31.800 --> 01:25:36.920
<v Speaker 4>seen comforting his wife at all. And he was actually

1339
01:25:37.000 --> 01:25:40.800
<v Speaker 4>caught on the phone with his pilot trying to fly

1340
01:25:40.960 --> 01:25:45.039
<v Speaker 4>his family to Atlanta. And the police were like, hey, John,

1341
01:25:46.039 --> 01:25:48.239
<v Speaker 4>we haven't even found your daughter yet, we haven't even

1342
01:25:48.319 --> 01:25:51.720
<v Speaker 4>heard from the kidnappers, and he's trying to fly them

1343
01:25:51.840 --> 01:25:52.680
<v Speaker 4>away from there.

1344
01:25:53.520 --> 01:25:55.319
<v Speaker 1>Well, and let me do this. Let me ask the

1345
01:25:55.319 --> 01:25:56.880
<v Speaker 1>first question here and then I'm going to get to

1346
01:25:56.920 --> 01:26:01.840
<v Speaker 1>the callers. Can you tell us tell the callers in

1347
01:26:02.039 --> 01:26:06.640
<v Speaker 1>me just exactly how John Benet's body was discovered and

1348
01:26:06.680 --> 01:26:08.119
<v Speaker 1>where it was discovered.

1349
01:26:09.279 --> 01:26:12.079
<v Speaker 4>Well, it was down in the basement, and Mike, that

1350
01:26:12.239 --> 01:26:15.079
<v Speaker 4>thing was a labyrinus down there. I don't know how

1351
01:26:15.119 --> 01:26:20.279
<v Speaker 4>a stranger could have navigated in the dark. You know.

1352
01:26:20.359 --> 01:26:23.199
<v Speaker 4>She was found in a room way off to the back.

1353
01:26:23.760 --> 01:26:26.640
<v Speaker 4>She was tucked in with a blanket. There was a

1354
01:26:26.680 --> 01:26:30.840
<v Speaker 4>garret around her neck. She had a horrible skull fracture,

1355
01:26:31.640 --> 01:26:35.359
<v Speaker 4>but because of death was strangulation. It's almost like someone

1356
01:26:35.439 --> 01:26:40.319
<v Speaker 4>struck her in anger and then she was finished off

1357
01:26:40.760 --> 01:26:43.920
<v Speaker 4>and the staging was then done.

1358
01:26:44.600 --> 01:26:46.680
<v Speaker 1>I'm just wondering how they missed it. I mean, you

1359
01:26:46.800 --> 01:26:51.279
<v Speaker 1>gotta think the cops would have done a thorough search,

1360
01:26:52.279 --> 01:26:56.199
<v Speaker 1>or even a perfunctory search of it, wouldn't you agree?

1361
01:26:56.600 --> 01:26:59.000
<v Speaker 4>You know, they left that one. They left that one

1362
01:26:59.000 --> 01:27:02.520
<v Speaker 4>detective there all loan to manage a house full of

1363
01:27:02.600 --> 01:27:06.720
<v Speaker 4>like fifteen people, Mike. They had victims' advocates there who

1364
01:27:06.880 --> 01:27:08.479
<v Speaker 4>write down the kitchen counter.

1365
01:27:08.680 --> 01:27:09.319
<v Speaker 1>I saw that.

1366
01:27:11.000 --> 01:27:12.439
<v Speaker 4>After they fixed coffee.

1367
01:27:12.720 --> 01:27:16.119
<v Speaker 1>It it makes me angry to see how much they

1368
01:27:16.239 --> 01:27:17.279
<v Speaker 1>screwed this up.

1369
01:27:17.960 --> 01:27:22.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and John Ramsey disappeared for a while, and when

1370
01:27:22.640 --> 01:27:25.680
<v Speaker 4>he came back, he sat in a different room from Patsy.

1371
01:27:26.439 --> 01:27:30.920
<v Speaker 4>I think it's possible he had found her body previously

1372
01:27:31.159 --> 01:27:34.319
<v Speaker 4>and didn't mention it. When they finally said, well, John,

1373
01:27:34.359 --> 01:27:36.840
<v Speaker 4>will you search the house again with your friend here?

1374
01:27:37.359 --> 01:27:39.560
<v Speaker 4>He went right to the basement room where she was,

1375
01:27:40.880 --> 01:27:44.399
<v Speaker 4>and people said in that house, you could get lost

1376
01:27:44.439 --> 01:27:46.880
<v Speaker 4>in that house even if you were familiar with it.

1377
01:27:47.199 --> 01:27:51.319
<v Speaker 1>And that comes through in the Netflix documentary. Let me

1378
01:27:51.399 --> 01:27:54.000
<v Speaker 1>do this, JT. Because I, oh, we got a number

1379
01:27:54.000 --> 01:27:56.439
<v Speaker 1>of questions here and I promised i'd get to him.

1380
01:27:57.439 --> 01:27:59.640
<v Speaker 1>Let's see. How about Leonard? I think he was first.

1381
01:28:00.039 --> 01:28:03.640
<v Speaker 1>Hey Leonard, you're on with JT. Townsend. What's your question, sir?

1382
01:28:04.479 --> 01:28:09.199
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, thanks for taking my call. I really think that

1383
01:28:10.640 --> 01:28:16.560
<v Speaker 6>we follow the league detective the hitch. After that, he

1384
01:28:16.640 --> 01:28:17.560
<v Speaker 6>honed in with.

1385
01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:24.840
<v Speaker 13>Laser focus on the Ramseys, never had off, wouldn't let

1386
01:28:24.880 --> 01:28:29.079
<v Speaker 13>anybody else, and you're the case. And then I think

1387
01:28:29.119 --> 01:28:35.600
<v Speaker 13>that Jesus, who which family member would kill a child

1388
01:28:35.680 --> 01:28:40.119
<v Speaker 13>with a garat that was made on the scene out

1389
01:28:40.159 --> 01:28:45.239
<v Speaker 13>of a broken hate for USh handle Good. That investigation

1390
01:28:46.039 --> 01:28:50.159
<v Speaker 13>never went further than those two parents, which is really

1391
01:28:50.760 --> 01:28:54.840
<v Speaker 13>what they teach them in the investigative schools.

1392
01:28:56.359 --> 01:29:00.520
<v Speaker 1>That's stint Okay, thank you for the question, Leonard. Your

1393
01:29:00.600 --> 01:29:02.239
<v Speaker 1>thoughts on his question.

1394
01:29:02.239 --> 01:29:05.000
<v Speaker 4>Well, we'll speak to that. He's talking about Steve Thomas,

1395
01:29:05.159 --> 01:29:07.960
<v Speaker 4>the lead investigator, and I've read his book, Jean Benet.

1396
01:29:08.439 --> 01:29:10.920
<v Speaker 4>I think it's the best book on the case. And

1397
01:29:12.039 --> 01:29:15.880
<v Speaker 4>they ran down every single tip they could. They checked

1398
01:29:15.880 --> 01:29:23.079
<v Speaker 4>out numerous pedophiles, people involved with the pageant situation. The

1399
01:29:23.119 --> 01:29:28.680
<v Speaker 4>biggest problem with his investigation was the prosecutors investigators were

1400
01:29:28.680 --> 01:29:32.560
<v Speaker 4>funneling evidence to the Ramsey attorneys. Mike, I think you

1401
01:29:32.600 --> 01:29:38.159
<v Speaker 4>can appreciate this. They asked Ramsey attorneys asked to see

1402
01:29:38.199 --> 01:29:41.520
<v Speaker 4>all the evidence, in other words, setting up like a

1403
01:29:41.600 --> 01:29:49.119
<v Speaker 4>trial discovery situation. And they weren't even arrested. And yet

1404
01:29:49.119 --> 01:29:53.600
<v Speaker 4>they gave them copies of all the evidence, right, And

1405
01:29:53.640 --> 01:29:56.079
<v Speaker 4>normally that's something to do with trial, Mike, as you.

1406
01:29:56.079 --> 01:30:01.239
<v Speaker 1>Know, absolutely, and discovery you further contaminate the evidence it.

1407
01:30:01.640 --> 01:30:05.680
<v Speaker 4>They gave them copies of the ransom note, they gave

1408
01:30:05.760 --> 01:30:11.960
<v Speaker 4>them everything, and the prosecutors investigators just seemed to you know,

1409
01:30:12.000 --> 01:30:14.880
<v Speaker 4>the caller just said they centered up on the Ramseys. Well,

1410
01:30:14.920 --> 01:30:20.039
<v Speaker 4>the prosecution investigators centered up on anyone but the rams right, right.

1411
01:30:20.079 --> 01:30:23.199
<v Speaker 1>And there were two competing investigations.

1412
01:30:22.439 --> 01:30:28.079
<v Speaker 4>And you competing investigations, no cooperation whatsoever. And I want

1413
01:30:28.119 --> 01:30:32.359
<v Speaker 4>to make this very clear. The Ramseys hired attorneys two

1414
01:30:32.439 --> 01:30:36.439
<v Speaker 4>hours after Jean Manet was found, but it took them

1415
01:30:36.520 --> 01:30:40.640
<v Speaker 4>four months to sit down for a police interview. Yeah,

1416
01:30:40.720 --> 01:30:44.000
<v Speaker 4>and Mike, come on, if could have been my daughter

1417
01:30:44.760 --> 01:30:47.600
<v Speaker 4>or your daughter, we'd have been camped out at the

1418
01:30:47.640 --> 01:30:49.960
<v Speaker 4>police station, no question about it.

1419
01:30:50.079 --> 01:30:52.199
<v Speaker 1>Let me get back to the I got to get

1420
01:30:52.199 --> 01:30:55.840
<v Speaker 1>these callers, Jacobs, go ahead, let's talk to Jim in Mason.

1421
01:30:55.960 --> 01:30:58.800
<v Speaker 1>Jim your question for JP Townsend.

1422
01:31:00.199 --> 01:31:04.079
<v Speaker 14>Yeah, very interesting program.

1423
01:31:04.439 --> 01:31:05.760
<v Speaker 6>My question is.

1424
01:31:07.520 --> 01:31:12.680
<v Speaker 14>Were was there ever a request for lighte detector tests

1425
01:31:13.159 --> 01:31:17.720
<v Speaker 14>for the Ramses? What was their response? Good question then,

1426
01:31:18.359 --> 01:31:24.600
<v Speaker 14>and then secondly, I've seen interviews with the father.

1427
01:31:26.159 --> 01:31:27.520
<v Speaker 6>In the last five years.

1428
01:31:27.640 --> 01:31:32.000
<v Speaker 14>It would be interesting if one of those interviewers said

1429
01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:34.600
<v Speaker 14>to him, would you be willing to take a lie

1430
01:31:34.680 --> 01:31:39.039
<v Speaker 14>detector test today? And I would be interested to see

1431
01:31:39.079 --> 01:31:45.640
<v Speaker 14>his reaction, how he respond have some experts there on speech,

1432
01:31:47.600 --> 01:31:52.399
<v Speaker 14>movements of the eyes in that and then his actual response.

1433
01:31:53.520 --> 01:31:55.720
<v Speaker 1>Your response, JT. That's a good question.

1434
01:31:56.119 --> 01:31:59.960
<v Speaker 4>Good question. A lot of controversy about the lie detect

1435
01:32:00.079 --> 01:32:05.399
<v Speaker 4>There's Steve Thomas indicated several times their attorneys were approached

1436
01:32:05.399 --> 01:32:09.439
<v Speaker 4>about taking polygraphs, and the Ramsays indicated their willingness, but

1437
01:32:09.520 --> 01:32:15.520
<v Speaker 4>they never actually took them. And just like handwriting, analysis

1438
01:32:15.640 --> 01:32:18.439
<v Speaker 4>is not an exact science, Mike, as you know, polygraphs

1439
01:32:18.439 --> 01:32:22.600
<v Speaker 4>are not admissible in trial. To my knowledge, they never

1440
01:32:22.640 --> 01:32:27.199
<v Speaker 4>took polygraphs, and as time would pass, the value of

1441
01:32:27.239 --> 01:32:31.880
<v Speaker 4>the polygraph obviously diminishes. I do know that a stress

1442
01:32:31.920 --> 01:32:35.399
<v Speaker 4>analysis of the nine to one one call that Patsy

1443
01:32:35.479 --> 01:32:43.239
<v Speaker 4>made indicated consciousness of guilt based on her voice, her diction,

1444
01:32:43.520 --> 01:32:46.920
<v Speaker 4>the things she said. And that's maybe the closest thing

1445
01:32:46.960 --> 01:32:50.039
<v Speaker 4>we have in terms of closest thing to the time

1446
01:32:50.119 --> 01:32:54.279
<v Speaker 4>of the crime was her nine one one call, which

1447
01:32:54.399 --> 01:32:59.880
<v Speaker 4>was just very odd. Absolutely, we should have been screaming,

1448
01:33:00.079 --> 01:33:01.880
<v Speaker 4>what the hell is going to happen to my daughter?

1449
01:33:02.119 --> 01:33:04.880
<v Speaker 1>I agree, that's not how a mother would respond the.

1450
01:33:04.880 --> 01:33:07.680
<v Speaker 4>Way, Absolutely not. She never even mentioned her by name.

1451
01:33:07.920 --> 01:33:10.199
<v Speaker 1>We got Tom and Cole Rain. He's got a really

1452
01:33:10.239 --> 01:33:12.479
<v Speaker 1>good question, and I was going to ask you, but

1453
01:33:12.600 --> 01:33:17.000
<v Speaker 1>I want Tom to ask. Hey, Tom, you're on with JT. Townsend. Well,

1454
01:33:17.079 --> 01:33:17.520
<v Speaker 1>thank you.

1455
01:33:18.079 --> 01:33:20.680
<v Speaker 15>I by the way, I read your book on BRICCA

1456
01:33:21.560 --> 01:33:23.000
<v Speaker 15>and it was interesting.

1457
01:33:23.159 --> 01:33:25.159
<v Speaker 8>I've got a couple of copies. I saw you talk

1458
01:33:25.199 --> 01:33:26.000
<v Speaker 8>at the libraries.

1459
01:33:26.039 --> 01:33:26.319
<v Speaker 7>Also.

1460
01:33:27.319 --> 01:33:29.319
<v Speaker 4>Oh, okay, My question is this.

1461
01:33:29.600 --> 01:33:34.640
<v Speaker 15>I've got the feeling that the brother and John Bday

1462
01:33:34.960 --> 01:33:40.800
<v Speaker 15>were had pineapple in their stomach right, and that there

1463
01:33:40.800 --> 01:33:41.640
<v Speaker 15>should have been.

1464
01:33:41.720 --> 01:33:44.680
<v Speaker 8>Sharing it and he got the son, got upset and

1465
01:33:45.159 --> 01:33:47.039
<v Speaker 8>hit her with a flashlight, and then they didn't want

1466
01:33:47.079 --> 01:33:48.039
<v Speaker 8>to lose both kids.

1467
01:33:48.079 --> 01:33:50.760
<v Speaker 5>They already lost their daughter, they didn't want to.

1468
01:33:50.720 --> 01:33:52.880
<v Speaker 8>Lose their son. That's my comment.

1469
01:33:53.119 --> 01:33:56.560
<v Speaker 1>Okay, wow, good question, Tom, Thank you for that. And

1470
01:33:56.640 --> 01:33:58.359
<v Speaker 1>I was going to ask you to, like I said,

1471
01:33:58.479 --> 01:34:04.319
<v Speaker 1>JT that sun at least at the time, there was

1472
01:34:04.439 --> 01:34:07.159
<v Speaker 1>just a lot of things not normal with him.

1473
01:34:07.239 --> 01:34:10.920
<v Speaker 4>Is that a fact. Let's talk about what he just said,

1474
01:34:11.000 --> 01:34:15.079
<v Speaker 4>because I just about believe the very same thing. Jean

1475
01:34:15.159 --> 01:34:20.079
<v Speaker 4>Benet had pineapple in her stomach undigested. She ate that

1476
01:34:20.159 --> 01:34:25.720
<v Speaker 4>pineapple within twenty minutes to a half hour of her murder,

1477
01:34:26.680 --> 01:34:30.000
<v Speaker 4>and they found a bowl in the kitchen with the pineapple.

1478
01:34:31.479 --> 01:34:34.520
<v Speaker 4>Three fingerprints on that bowl, Mike, two of them were

1479
01:34:34.680 --> 01:34:41.800
<v Speaker 4>Patsy's and one was unidentified. And the flashlight was there. Now,

1480
01:34:41.840 --> 01:34:46.079
<v Speaker 4>they were never able to tie the flashlight to the

1481
01:34:46.119 --> 01:34:52.239
<v Speaker 4>skull fracture. But you're thinking burke her fighting over the pineapple,

1482
01:34:52.800 --> 01:34:56.720
<v Speaker 4>hit her with the flashlight. And again, like he just said,

1483
01:34:56.880 --> 01:34:59.960
<v Speaker 4>Patsy didn't want to lose two children the same night.

1484
01:35:00.479 --> 01:35:04.000
<v Speaker 4>Because let's review here, she didn't go to bed that night,

1485
01:35:05.039 --> 01:35:07.560
<v Speaker 4>she was fully dressed and ready to go when the

1486
01:35:07.560 --> 01:35:11.359
<v Speaker 4>police got there. And it would have taken a while

1487
01:35:11.399 --> 01:35:15.199
<v Speaker 4>to have written that note. But her fingerprints were on

1488
01:35:15.439 --> 01:35:20.039
<v Speaker 4>that bowl of pineapple, and Mike, she denied feeding her

1489
01:35:20.159 --> 01:35:24.319
<v Speaker 4>daughter that pineapple. So the kidnapper or the pedophile is

1490
01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:28.560
<v Speaker 4>feeding her daughter pineapple and spending all that time in

1491
01:35:28.600 --> 01:35:32.399
<v Speaker 4>the house writing that note. Yep, that dog don't hunt

1492
01:35:32.439 --> 01:35:32.680
<v Speaker 4>for me.

1493
01:35:33.199 --> 01:35:36.399
<v Speaker 1>No, and I get that. I do. Let me ask you.

1494
01:35:36.800 --> 01:35:40.720
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to ask you about the conduct of the

1495
01:35:41.520 --> 01:35:46.920
<v Speaker 1>boy in later interviews. I guess he was awful cavalier about.

1496
01:35:46.720 --> 01:35:51.920
<v Speaker 4>It, wasn't he boy? You know, I saw the interview

1497
01:35:51.920 --> 01:35:54.560
<v Speaker 4>with him. It was about a month afterwards. They would

1498
01:35:54.600 --> 01:35:58.279
<v Speaker 4>not let him be interviewed immediately. And the thing he

1499
01:35:58.319 --> 01:36:02.199
<v Speaker 4>said about John Benet, how she made him mad all

1500
01:36:02.239 --> 01:36:05.319
<v Speaker 4>the time. And then he said, I don't think about

1501
01:36:05.359 --> 01:36:10.079
<v Speaker 4>her anymore. And you know, he's an eight year old

1502
01:36:10.199 --> 01:36:14.399
<v Speaker 4>kid and his sibling is murdered in their house. He

1503
01:36:14.399 --> 01:36:17.119
<v Speaker 4>should be frightened. Yep, he wasn't.

1504
01:36:18.039 --> 01:36:20.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's sometimes right about that kid.

1505
01:36:21.119 --> 01:36:25.840
<v Speaker 4>And I understand. Burke had a problem with smearing feces

1506
01:36:25.960 --> 01:36:29.000
<v Speaker 4>around the house, and he would often do it in

1507
01:36:29.119 --> 01:36:32.560
<v Speaker 4>Jean Benet's bedroom. Now we're getting into the whole bed

1508
01:36:32.560 --> 01:36:36.560
<v Speaker 4>wedding thing. You know what could have triggered the blow

1509
01:36:36.720 --> 01:36:39.600
<v Speaker 4>to the head, and that was a nasty skull fracture,

1510
01:36:39.640 --> 01:36:43.239
<v Speaker 4>but that was not the cause of death, So what

1511
01:36:43.279 --> 01:36:46.119
<v Speaker 4>could have done it? I think the truth of this

1512
01:36:46.279 --> 01:36:51.600
<v Speaker 4>case lies within the residence of that house, not unlike

1513
01:36:51.640 --> 01:36:55.600
<v Speaker 4>the Lindbergh baby kidnapping of nineteen thirty two, And there

1514
01:36:55.600 --> 01:36:57.760
<v Speaker 4>were five people in that house, Mike, and I've been

1515
01:36:57.760 --> 01:37:01.039
<v Speaker 4>in that house. I guarantee you the truth of the

1516
01:37:01.039 --> 01:37:03.560
<v Speaker 4>Limburg baby was the five people in that house.

1517
01:37:04.800 --> 01:37:08.159
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, And maybe someday we'll get into that one too.

1518
01:37:08.520 --> 01:37:09.319
<v Speaker 4>Oh, I'd love to.

1519
01:37:09.520 --> 01:37:12.920
<v Speaker 1>And we're running out of time here, unfortunately, JT. I

1520
01:37:13.000 --> 01:37:15.600
<v Speaker 1>did want to ask, y'all. I'll just ask it like this,

1521
01:37:16.359 --> 01:37:19.119
<v Speaker 1>And you've looked at a lot of these things. Was

1522
01:37:19.199 --> 01:37:25.560
<v Speaker 1>this the most screwed up, damaged, damage, really in a

1523
01:37:25.680 --> 01:37:29.359
<v Speaker 1>very harmful way crime scene that you have ever seen,

1524
01:37:29.680 --> 01:37:32.439
<v Speaker 1>because I've seen a few of them too, and without.

1525
01:37:32.239 --> 01:37:33.279
<v Speaker 5>Question tho you have.

1526
01:37:36.079 --> 01:37:39.720
<v Speaker 4>It really was. And this is Boulder, Colorado, not a

1527
01:37:39.800 --> 01:37:44.920
<v Speaker 4>huge jurisdiction. You got to clear that house. All these

1528
01:37:44.960 --> 01:37:48.159
<v Speaker 4>people that the Ramsays called. I love that you call

1529
01:37:48.199 --> 01:37:52.680
<v Speaker 4>anyone will behead your daughter. They call twelve people and

1530
01:37:52.920 --> 01:37:56.199
<v Speaker 4>people descend on that house. You clear the house, You

1531
01:37:56.279 --> 01:37:59.079
<v Speaker 4>put the husband upstairs, you keep the wife downstairs. You

1532
01:37:59.479 --> 01:38:02.800
<v Speaker 4>start questioning seeing them separately from each other. And they

1533
01:38:02.800 --> 01:38:06.279
<v Speaker 4>were never questioned separately. And you know about that.

1534
01:38:06.479 --> 01:38:10.199
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's like they teach you that the first damn day. Yeah,

1535
01:38:10.279 --> 01:38:11.680
<v Speaker 1>that investigat.

1536
01:38:11.079 --> 01:38:14.960
<v Speaker 4>Basically interrogation oneh one. They never got a chance to

1537
01:38:15.000 --> 01:38:19.199
<v Speaker 4>do that. And it was a screwed up investigation, a

1538
01:38:19.199 --> 01:38:23.319
<v Speaker 4>compromise crime scene from the start. But I think the

1539
01:38:23.680 --> 01:38:27.439
<v Speaker 4>Bowlder PD pushed off in the right direction, concentrated on

1540
01:38:27.560 --> 01:38:33.079
<v Speaker 4>the parents, and they didn't count on the prosecution investigators

1541
01:38:33.760 --> 01:38:37.359
<v Speaker 4>helping the Ramsey lawyers. I still I said it earlier.

1542
01:38:37.960 --> 01:38:43.039
<v Speaker 4>There's no discovery during an investigation. You don't have to

1543
01:38:43.039 --> 01:38:46.159
<v Speaker 4>give them anything that's right that I found that they

1544
01:38:46.159 --> 01:38:47.439
<v Speaker 4>gave them everything.

1545
01:38:47.520 --> 01:38:52.439
<v Speaker 1>That's that's malpractice, that's insane. Unfortunately, we're out of time,

1546
01:38:52.479 --> 01:38:55.079
<v Speaker 1>But I got to ask you this one question, ask

1547
01:38:55.159 --> 01:38:56.800
<v Speaker 1>Ques and if you want to take a pass on

1548
01:38:56.880 --> 01:38:59.680
<v Speaker 1>an ironer, stand there'll never be a conviction in this

1549
01:38:59.760 --> 01:39:03.840
<v Speaker 1>case in my opinion, too long. It's just not going

1550
01:39:03.920 --> 01:39:07.960
<v Speaker 1>to happen. In your heart of hearts. JT. Townsend, Who

1551
01:39:08.000 --> 01:39:11.520
<v Speaker 1>do you think is responsible for this horrible crime.

1552
01:39:12.520 --> 01:39:17.600
<v Speaker 4>I've really come down to Patsy me staging it. I

1553
01:39:17.640 --> 01:39:21.239
<v Speaker 4>think Burke perhaps started it with the blow to the

1554
01:39:21.279 --> 01:39:25.439
<v Speaker 4>head and Patsy did the staging. It's the most logical

1555
01:39:26.000 --> 01:39:27.760
<v Speaker 4>conclusion at this point.

1556
01:39:27.920 --> 01:39:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Yep, I couldn't agree with you more. Unfortunately, we're out

1557
01:39:31.000 --> 01:39:31.760
<v Speaker 1>of time this.

1558
01:39:32.199 --> 01:39:33.479
<v Speaker 4>You got to give me thirty seconds.

1559
01:39:33.560 --> 01:39:35.439
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's right. I told you to remind me. I'm

1560
01:39:35.479 --> 01:39:36.000
<v Speaker 1>glad you did.

1561
01:39:36.359 --> 01:39:36.760
<v Speaker 10>I am.

1562
01:39:37.159 --> 01:39:41.359
<v Speaker 4>I'm running another special on Summer's almost Gone, Cincinnati's most

1563
01:39:41.359 --> 01:39:45.600
<v Speaker 4>notorious cold case, the Brick and Murders. Go to www

1564
01:39:45.720 --> 01:39:52.359
<v Speaker 4>dot JT. Townsend dot com. Put in WLW in the

1565
01:39:52.479 --> 01:39:57.520
<v Speaker 4>coupon ten dollars off. All books will be signed by me.

1566
01:39:58.439 --> 01:40:02.600
<v Speaker 4>And if you're a Cincinnati native, especially if you're on

1567
01:40:02.640 --> 01:40:06.159
<v Speaker 4>the West Side, you've not read this book? What's wrong

1568
01:40:06.239 --> 01:40:07.640
<v Speaker 4>with you?

1569
01:40:07.680 --> 01:40:09.600
<v Speaker 1>No, it's like I said, and I know I sound

1570
01:40:09.680 --> 01:40:12.279
<v Speaker 1>like a broken record. One of the best books, one

1571
01:40:12.319 --> 01:40:15.880
<v Speaker 1>of the most easy reads that I've ever had. And

1572
01:40:16.239 --> 01:40:18.600
<v Speaker 1>we got to do this again. JT. I think it's

1573
01:40:18.640 --> 01:40:19.560
<v Speaker 1>really been helpful.

1574
01:40:19.600 --> 01:40:21.159
<v Speaker 4>Well, I think you're on I think you're in for

1575
01:40:21.239 --> 01:40:24.399
<v Speaker 4>McConnell next week. Yes, I'm available.

1576
01:40:24.560 --> 01:40:25.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I went again.

1577
01:40:26.000 --> 01:40:30.279
<v Speaker 4>Everybody WLW in the coupon code ten dollars off. All right, brother,

1578
01:40:30.439 --> 01:40:33.000
<v Speaker 4>thank you and Mike as always. I love being on

1579
01:40:33.119 --> 01:40:33.680
<v Speaker 4>with you man.

1580
01:40:33.800 --> 01:40:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, and it's mutual. Thank you. JT all Right, JT.

1581
01:40:38.840 --> 01:40:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Townsend man. He knows this stuff inside out and maybe

1582
01:40:42.960 --> 01:40:46.039
<v Speaker 1>we can do something next week. Hey, I am out

1583
01:40:46.039 --> 01:40:50.079
<v Speaker 1>of here, but Dan Carroll follows me. He's in for

1584
01:40:50.359 --> 01:40:53.560
<v Speaker 1>Eddie and Rocky. I'll be back tomorrow. Mike Allen seven

1585
01:40:53.640 --> 01:40:57.239
<v Speaker 1>hundred WLW. The countdown at twenty twenty five is in

1586
01:40:57.399 --> 01:40:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Bull Switch
