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Within the 51 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:53.879 pages of The Bundy Secrets, Hidden Files of America's worst 52 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:57.960 serial Killer is a unique, never before published look at 53 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:03.199 the investigations undertaken stop the depredations of America's most infamous 54 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:07.439 serial killer, Ted Bundy. Presented here in an easy to 55 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:11.960 follow chronology are the raw, unedited in most fascinating official 56 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:15.560 case files as they appeared to the detectives from the 57 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:20.680 Pacific Northwest to the Rocky Mountains to Florida. Book three 58 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:25.360 in Sullivan's The Bundy Trilogy, The Bundy Murders, A Comprehensive History. 59 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:29.479 The first book in Sullivan's Comprehensive trilogy was a dramatic 60 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:33.120 narrative of the killer's life, and book two, The Trail 61 00:03:33.159 --> 00:03:36.560 of Ted Bundy, Digging Up the Untold Stories, was dedicated 62 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:42.280 to recollections of various friend witnesses and detectives associated with Bundy. Now, 63 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:46.840 The Bundy Secrets complete Sullivan's opus by presenting readers with 64 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:50.840 adjust the facts, rendition of the formerly classified files of 65 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:54.919 the manhunt, as well as contemporary interviews gathered by Sullivan 66 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:59.199 from dozens of sources along Bundy's trail of terror. This 67 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:02.159 is a must have for true crime students of Ted Bundy. 68 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:04.960 The book that we're featuring this evening is The Bundy Secrets, 69 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:09.439 Hidden Files on America's Worst serial Killer, with my special guest, 70 00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:13.439 journalist and author Kevin Sullivan. Welcome back to the program, 71 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:15.520 and thank you very much for a green in this interview. 72 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:19.120 Kevin Sullivan, Well, thank you Dan. 73 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:22.639 For having me. It's always a great time that we 74 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:24.720 have on the show talking about the books and stuff 75 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:26.319 like that, so ill looking forward. 76 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:31.000 To it absolutely. Thank you for returning again. Always good 77 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:33.560 to talk to you, especially good to talk to you 78 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:38.120 about Ted Bundy. Now, this is the third book, as 79 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:43.879 we mentioned in the trilogy, the end of this long 80 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:50.879 examination of Ted Bundy. In this you have reproduced various 81 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:54.079 entire portions of the official record, so you say that 82 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:57.240 people can read and appreciate all that's in there, and 83 00:04:57.399 --> 00:05:00.959 you've pulled out it out of the archives, original interviews 84 00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:04.319 and put it all together now. And we also talked 85 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:10.000 just before the program about what you've also included is 86 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:12.360 one of the most fascinating parts of this is the 87 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:16.399 long hidden story of Louise Cannon, who spoke with Bundy 88 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.600 only a couple hours before he kidnapped and murdered Melissa Smith, 89 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:25.639 which was about four blocks away. So tell us a 90 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:29.720 little bit about the reason for or the difference between 91 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:33.160 what is the Bundy Secrets? What does it give those 92 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:36.600 people that have never read anything about Bundy, but more importantly, 93 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:39.480 the people that think they know everything about Bundy. What 94 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:43.800 does Kevin Sullivan provide in the Bundy Secrets? 95 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:49.240 Well, just let the audience know. For some people out 96 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:51.560 there that might not be familiar with with all three 97 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.279 of the books. My first book was The Bundy Murders 98 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:58.079 of Comprehensive History. Now, that was my first book about Bundy. 99 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:03.160 Was an in depth biography of the man and a 100 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:05.759 deep look at the murders. It was where I was 101 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:11.000 able to uncover new and never before published important information 102 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:13.439 about three or four of the murders, and a lot 103 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:16.439 of new information in general. And that's the book that 104 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:19.920 really put me on the map as a true crime writer. 105 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:24.360 And so again that was I didn't think I would 106 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:28.920 write anything else past that. And in twenty fifteen I 107 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:32.360 decided to write a companion by him to that, and 108 00:06:33.879 --> 00:06:36.759 that book was called The Trail of Ted Bundy, Digging 109 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:41.319 Up the Untold Stories. And in that book, I retraced 110 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:45.279 Bundy's steps. I described the locations how they appear today. 111 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:50.079 I took photographs, and I also interviewed a lot of 112 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:55.360 people that have never been interviewed before and got all 113 00:06:55.399 --> 00:07:00.199 that testimony in print, a lot of testimony from these 114 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:05.079 Mormons friends in Utah, and so I thought again that 115 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:09.759 that would be it. Now, what usually happens when I 116 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:13.079 write a book, especially a book about Bundy, I have 117 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.680 people contact me after the book is published. I mean 118 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:21.519 they they come out from various directions. They're usually friends 119 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:25.000 of the victims. I don't think I've had anybody so 120 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:28.160 much to contact me that was connected to Bundy, but 121 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:30.000 I sure have had it happen a lot with friends 122 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:35.720 of the victims. And so what happens is after the 123 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:38.560 second book was published, I'm gaining all this new testimony. 124 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:41.439 And I remember when I published a second book, the 125 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:45.680 Trail of Ted Bundy. I put in that book various 126 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.720 case files portions of case files that I thought would 127 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:54.399 be interesting to the reader. Now, what makes this last 128 00:07:54.480 --> 00:08:00.120 book in this trilogy so interesting is that the that 129 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:03.439 the entire book is a republication of the case of 130 00:08:03.879 --> 00:08:06.800 many of the case files that I have found most 131 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:12.040 the most important, and they are most of them are 132 00:08:12.120 --> 00:08:15.120 in their entirety. Now I had I had to pick 133 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:17.480 and choose, because if you were to publish everything that's 134 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:19.759 out there, the case files, you'd have a book with 135 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.759 like maybe ten thousand pages. But I have picked out 136 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:27.839 that which is important, and I got to do something 137 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:30.079 in the Bundy Secrets that I never thought I would 138 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:34.159 be able to do. I remember researching for the Bundy Murders, 139 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.039 all of these case files thousands, and my personal file 140 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:44.200 is probably somewhere in about eight eight seven, eight thousand pages. 141 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:46.720 It could be a little bit more of its probably, 142 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:51.600 but probably the range. And reading this stuff, I thought, 143 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:54.120 my gosh, I pick and choose from these various case 144 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:57.399 files to put in the book. I thought to myself, 145 00:08:57.399 --> 00:09:01.159 wouldn't it be nice if one day people could read 146 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:04.279 these files like I'm having a chance to read them? 147 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.399 To see all of this stuff that's in here that's interesting, 148 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:11.960 really interesting, but you can't put everything in the book. 149 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:15.000 And I thought, well, but that's never going to happen 150 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:17.159 because the only way you can see something like this 151 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:20.000 is to go into the archives and dig it out. 152 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:22.360 And you can do that if you want to, but 153 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:25.759 you know, ninety nine nine percent of the population is 154 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:28.519 never going to do that. So as I began to 155 00:09:29.279 --> 00:09:34.440 receive new testimony from people after my second you know 156 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:38.559 Bundy book was published, I thought, I'm going to do 157 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:41.080 something I never thought i'd be able to do. And 158 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:43.840 I ask my publisher if they agree with it, I'm 159 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:46.279 going to do it. I said, how about a book 160 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:50.519 on the case files? The unedited 're aw case files, 161 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:53.039 but people can see what it's really like. And I 162 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:56.000 knew what I would be presenting to them because these 163 00:09:56.080 --> 00:10:01.559 case files are exceedingly interesting. They like the idea. So 164 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:03.919 that's what this book is, and people are going to 165 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:06.399 be able to see stuff. I mean, actually, there's not 166 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:10.000 another book like it on Bundy out there that shows 167 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:13.879 the case files like this. And with that, I have 168 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:17.039 a chapter at the end with all new, brand new 169 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:20.759 testimony of various people who knew Bundy, or you know, 170 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:24.600 knew the victim so well worked on the case. So yeah, 171 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:27.840 it's it's a really unique book. So as you put 172 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:31.720 all three books together to make this trilogy, each one 173 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:34.360 is a little bit different, but they all go together 174 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:38.679 very well. And I, like I often say, after writing 175 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:42.559 some six hundred plus pages in these three books, I'm 176 00:10:42.799 --> 00:10:45.639 fashed with Theodore. I may write an article one day 177 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.519 about him somebody new comes up, but there won't be 178 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:51.320 a fourth, you know, Bundy book anyway. 179 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:55.080 I think that's as you said after the first one. 180 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:59.600 I'll have to look that up, anyways, I did. Yeah, 181 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:05.159 you start this book in the murders began in Washington 182 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:08.240 State in early nineteen seventy four, and you would say 183 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:10.840 it would take over eighteen months before Bundy became a 184 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:14.159 primary suspect. And you have fur fascinating stuff about that. 185 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:17.279 So you first start off with the Washington, Utah, and 186 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:23.080 Colorado reports and a victim named Linda Ann Heally from Seattle, 187 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:30.759 and you say that this abduction is unique, and so 188 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.279 tell us why you think this is in the annals 189 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:36.159 of true crime. What's the uniqueness of this and the 190 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:40.440 strangeness and the tell us about this abduction that Bundy does. 191 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:44.799 Tell us why you think it is so fascinating and 192 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:45.600 unique as well? 193 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.720 Okay, yeah, it really is. That you can take the 194 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:52.840 Linda and Heally murder. I mean, I'm sixty two years old. 195 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:55.200 I've been writing true crime a number of years. I've 196 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:57.639 been reading about through crime since I was ten years old. 197 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:02.440 I've never encountered anything like the Linda Heally abduction, and 198 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:05.039 I don't ever expect to encounter anything like it. So 199 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:09.279 here's the setup on that. There there were five like 200 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:14.200 five co eds who had rented a room a home 201 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:21.559 in Washington in the University district in Seattle on I 202 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:24.720 think it's twelfth Street, and you know, it's just a 203 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:27.360 neighborhood house, a nice big house. And if you go 204 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:29.440 up to the front of the house, you have to 205 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:33.519 walk up some steps and and you know, you walk 206 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:36.600 up two sets of steps, so it's it's steep, and 207 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:39.159 they have a front door, or you work up, walk 208 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:40.879 up the first set of steps and you can go 209 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:44.919 around and there's a side door that's on the side 210 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:48.159 of the house that leads down to the basement. Well, 211 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:53.519 Ted Burndy one night he went in there and he 212 00:12:53.799 --> 00:12:58.879 probably was following Linda and Healing and her friends from 213 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:02.720 a place called Taste Tavern, which is a few blocks 214 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:07.279 away on Roosevelt Avenue, and he probably followed them home. 215 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:15.080 And he intimated to Stephen Michaud that after dark he 216 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:18.240 tried the front door, saw that the handle was open, 217 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:21.919 and he but he did not go in. And here's 218 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:24.200 what he did later that night, in the middle of 219 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:27.000 the night, I guess Linda and Heally went to bed 220 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:30.360 around one am something like that, and then the lady 221 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:32.679 next to her drifted off around one on one thirty. 222 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:36.159 They were separated in the basement by partition of plywood. 223 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:39.960 There was two rooms down there. So what Blundy did, 224 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.039 this is just astounding. This is the stuff of fiction, 225 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.639 but it's true. He came down, He came through the 226 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:52.240 front door. He h most likely did. He went down 227 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:56.200 to the basement steps, and he went in Linda Heey's 228 00:13:56.279 --> 00:14:00.960 room and he choked her into un consciousness. That's what 229 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:03.919 he told Michael and the third person speaking of what 230 00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:08.480 that person probably did. He didn't beat her. She started 231 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:10.840 to bleed, she started to have a nosebleed. It ran 232 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:15.039 behind her, you know, oliver her nose and onto the sheet, 233 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:17.840 you know, you know that was there. She was she 234 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.879 was laying on her back, so he choked her into unconsciousness. 235 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:24.840 I don't know if she was sleeping in the nude, 236 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.919 but he moved her off of the bed. He took 237 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:33.480 the night, her little nighty off of her or whatever. Yeah, 238 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.399 that's right, that's right, because she did that on but 239 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:38.960 I don't think she had probably anything else on. But 240 00:14:39.039 --> 00:14:40.960 he took that off of her, that head blood on it, 241 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:44.639 and he hung it up in the closet. He then 242 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:46.879 made the bed, if you can imagine this, he made 243 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:51.320 the bed. He grabbed like a book bag and he 244 00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:54.799 put some clothes in it. And we don't know if 245 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:56.600 he covered her up with a sheet or a blanket 246 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:59.120 or anything. But what he did was he hauled her 247 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:02.440 up the steps and he went out that side door. 248 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.759 Now there's only two ways that you can go. You 249 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:09.559 can go around the few feet for five feet and 250 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:12.519 you turn right and you can go down those steep 251 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:14.879 steps onto the street. Now, keep in mind of the 252 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:21.159 university district. There's street lights, there's kids. You know, it 253 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:22.799 may not be a lot out at that time, but 254 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:24.720 you never know who you're going to run into in 255 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:30.440 a university district. So he takes either that way and 256 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:33.279 puts in this car and leaves, or he has one 257 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.039 other option. He can go to the back of the 258 00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:41.600 house if he parked his VW in the alleyway and 259 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:45.639 he could put her in there. However, the alleyway is 260 00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:50.320 so narrow you almost effectively are blocking it. If you 261 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:53.879 do that, then you also run a risk with that. Also, 262 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:58.000 you expose yourself to anybody looking out of the window 263 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:03.159 on the other side of all that. So a normal abductor, 264 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:06.919 you would think, would probably not do that that way. 265 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.000 So he doesn't kill her there, but he takes her 266 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:13.600 from there, throllows her into unconsciousness and takes her from 267 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:17.440 there and zips her away, and nobody is the liser. 268 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:22.519 Now to me, that's an exceedingly bold abduction. And nobody 269 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:25.080 in the house woke up. Nobody heard a thing to 270 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:26.679 think of that. He took time to make the bed. 271 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:29.519 Is that something that you would do or I would 272 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:32.279 do if I was an abductor, I know I wouldn't 273 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:33.679 do there. I would get out of there as quickly 274 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:36.000 as I could. But nobody made the bed. She didn't 275 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.000 even make her bed. That's what her housemate said, I, 276 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.759 if that's what they said, she might do it on 277 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:46.200 the weekend. But she got up so early to go 278 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:49.240 to the radio station and do the ski report. She 279 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:51.480 had to be there like at six thirty am. So 280 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:54.360 through the week she never made the bed and she'd 281 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.240 hop on her bicycle in the morning and go. So 282 00:16:56.919 --> 00:16:59.360 that is the Linda Healy abduction. And as I say, 283 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:01.519 I've never heard of anything quite like that. 284 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.599 Now, just to do a contrast to what you have 285 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.200 is you have now in the book you reproduce a 286 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:17.440 letter from a a friend named Tim Clancy. Yeah, so 287 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:21.960 it speaks again to just the total contrast that Ted 288 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:25.400 Bundy was. So tell us what he has to say 289 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:29.119 about his friend and how and really how he knew 290 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:31.240 Ted Bundy. 291 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:38.079 Well, yeah, that's interesting because the guy who wrote Tim 292 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:40.039 that letter, his name was Larry Boushaw. 293 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:40.920 Uh. 294 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:45.160 He he passed away a number of years ago, even 295 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:47.279 before I wrote The Bundy Murgs. But but I had 296 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:49.799 talked to Clancy on the phone. I actually got his 297 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.880 his you know, permission to use that letter in the 298 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:57.400 first book. Actually, McFarland actually you know, you know, required it, 299 00:17:57.480 --> 00:17:59.799 even though it was a part of the public record 300 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:02.440 and what I did for the Bundy murders. I use 301 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:04.599 a very small portion of that, so you can see 302 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:06.759 in the Bundy Secrets, I use it all. And it's 303 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:10.000 a very long letter. Well to give people the back story, 304 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:14.799 Planty liked him, you know, Bundy, and they worked on 305 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:20.559 some political campaigns together. Now, Larry Vallshaw wasn't that impressed 306 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:24.880 with Bundy. And I tell the story and the Bundy 307 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:30.599 murders of how Vashaw went rafting with Bundy and these 308 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:33.799 girls and there were some other people there and Bundy 309 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:37.799 it's like his personality changed and he did some things 310 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:42.720 that to his date that you know, but to where 311 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:45.359 he pushed her into she was in a little raft 312 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:47.319 thing and he acted like he was going to cut 313 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.720 the strings so she'd flowed away, and then he undid 314 00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:54.119 her top as a joke. Vallshaw didn't like what he 315 00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:57.160 saw out of Bundy, so his opinion of Bundy was 316 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:01.920 pretty low anyway. But be that as it may. When 317 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:05.599 it turned out that they were looking at Bundy, uh, 318 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.200 you know, as the ones who had done these things, 319 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:15.519 it's surprised Vosho and Clancy. Clancy was off in he 320 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:19.960 was actually in Europe was he was in Italy, and 321 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:23.400 I say in the Bundy Murders that he was living there, 322 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.440 but actually he wasn't. He was, and I correct that 323 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:29.359 for actually this book. But he was actually there in Italy, 324 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:32.039 he was visiting, and in two weeks after that he 325 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:36.000 was going to be in Pariss. But so Valshaw contacted him. 326 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.920 What I found interesting, even though Clancy liked him, there's 327 00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:44.920 a portion in that where he talks about, you know, 328 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:49.079 we don't want to think, like I'm going to paraphrase 329 00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:52.039 here that Bundy is this way, that he could be 330 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.759 this fiend. But I mean they were considering it. Most 331 00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:02.160 people that knew Bundy wouldn't even consider that he could 332 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:07.240 be involved in that. But this conversation between Larry Vaushall 333 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:11.559 and Tim Clancy, Clancy basically says to him, you know, 334 00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:15.519 I mean you could tell that he was considering it. Also, 335 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:20.799 Clancy said something smart. He said, you know, keep this 336 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:24.000 to yourself for now. Don't report on an alpar phrase 337 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:28.160 again to the authorities, because you know they'll take anything 338 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:31.000 I say now it's fact. And he was wanting to 339 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:32.880 think about this for a while because he had just 340 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:36.519 received the letter. But it is a real interesting insight 341 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:41.799 into how his friends had to come to terms with this. Now. 342 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:44.079 Hello, it is Ryan and I was on a flight 343 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:46.319 the other day playing one of my favorite social spin 344 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.839 slot games on Chumpa Casino dot com. I looked over 345 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:50.759 the person sitting next to me, and you know what 346 00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:53.559 they were doing. They were also playing Chumba Casino. Coincidence, 347 00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.039 I think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumpa 348 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:58.480 Casino's home to hundreds of casino style games you can 349 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:02.319 play for free anytime, anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet. 350 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.720 So sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com to 351 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.839 claim you're free welcome bonus. That's Chumbuck Casino dot com. 352 00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:09.440 And lived at Chumba Lane. 353 00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:12.240 Were necessary day where everybody lost the terms conditions eighteen plus. 354 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:16.720 I've spoken to people beyond Tim Clancy. I mean, I've 355 00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:19.400 spoken with Ross Davis, he worked closely with him. I've 356 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:24.119 spoken to Danny Lazarus and and some other people, and 357 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:28.039 all of these folks that knew, you know, Bundy. They 358 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:33.240 they gradually had their own epiphany as to Bundy's guilt, 359 00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:36.880 and it came at different stages. And I remember Ross 360 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.799 David David said, and I quote this in the Bundy Meurs, 361 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:43.000 but that he said it was over a period of 362 00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:47.279 time when like circumstantial evidence just kept adding up and 363 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:50.119 adding up and adding up, that we decided, yeah, this 364 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:53.160 is the this is the killer of all these women 365 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:56.920 in the Northwest. It's it's it's Bundy. And it was 366 00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.599 a real shock. And I remember one of his friends said, 367 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.559 and I quote this fella in the book, but his 368 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:07.200 name is escaping me right now. He said, after Bundy, 369 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:12.759 after this happened, he said, we had to reevaluate what 370 00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:16.440 we believed about even our own friends. And so you know, 371 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:19.839 it shook these people up. But I thought that Tim 372 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:24.440 Clancy letter back back back to Larry, which Larry then 373 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:29.160 turned over to the authorities or mate. Yeah, that that 374 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.279 that actually will Yeah, Larry would have had to have 375 00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:36.799 done that. I thought it was very insightful. And there's 376 00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:40.000 a few things that Clancy says in that letter and 377 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:43.440 the way he says them that are just very very interesting. 378 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:46.200 So you can you can tell that he even then, 379 00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:48.160 even though it was new, he was given some real 380 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.720 thought to the possibilities of Ted being being the killer 381 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.920 of all these women. Just an interesting letter. 382 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:01.319 You include after this, Uh, One of the most fascinating 383 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:05.440 and important parts of this book is interviews with Liz 384 00:23:06.079 --> 00:23:11.519 Klopfer or aka or Liz Kendall. And you say they 385 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.960 did met in September nineteen sixty nine. So tell us 386 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:18.400 a little bit about this Liz Kendall and all that's 387 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:20.000 contained in what she had to say. 388 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:26.839 Well, you know, you have to really feel sorry for 389 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:30.279 this lady. She was. She seems like a really nice lady, 390 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.000 you know, Liz Kendall. I mean, she's still in Seattle today. 391 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:37.720 She got married after the fiasco with Bundy, and I 392 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.359 think her husband's path away. But I've seen a recent 393 00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:42.359 picture of her and she looks just the same. But 394 00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:46.599 she's older, just like all of us. Okay, But you know, 395 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:51.079 she opened her life up to Ted and she really 396 00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:53.880 loved him. And you know, Ted was good to her 397 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.559 for you know, the most part was good to her daughter, Tina, 398 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:02.279 and you know they had a good relationship for a 399 00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:04.680 long time. But then you know, this other stuff started 400 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.960 popping up. And when when Bundy became a sust even 401 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:12.440