Speaker 1: Prime Minister Mark Karney says he doesn't see the value
Speaker 1: in leveraging energy exports against the US amid those threats
Speaker 1: of fifty percent tariffs.
Speaker 2: It's not I don't see the value of doing. I mean,
Speaker 2: I can understand conceptually, but I don't see the value
Speaker 2: of it. We have many things we can do. The
Speaker 2: first and foremost is to work towards an agreement. That's
Speaker 2: what we're going to do. But there's other things we
Speaker 2: can do if we needed to.
Speaker 1: Canada's Minister responsible for Canada US trade, Dominic le Blanc,
Speaker 1: has returned from his recent trip to DC for accelerated
Speaker 1: trade talks with US representatives.
Speaker 3: I'm joined now by Ontario's.
Speaker 1: Representative in Washington, David Patterson. David, the fifty percent tariff
Speaker 1: clock is now ticking pretty loudly, looming in just a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks. Ontario jobs, of course directly exposed. How
Speaker 1: what's your level of concern. How concerned are you that
Speaker 1: this is actually going to go through?
Speaker 4: Well, of course, very concerned when you understand the application
Speaker 4: of that, should we not be able to avoid it?
Speaker 4: And so when you have these tariff threats, which sadly
Speaker 4: we've become more and more used to seeing you know,
Speaker 4: you have some options. You can negotiate, you can litigate,
Speaker 4: or you can retaliate. And I think we had a
Speaker 4: lot of discussion early on about our options in terms
Speaker 4: of retaliation. But I think the good news here in
Speaker 4: the embassy in Washington is that it's a beehive of activity.
Speaker 4: We have all of Canada's best negotiators here. They are
Speaker 4: very active. They've been here all week. I suspect they
Speaker 4: we'll be here all next week. And I think that's good.
Speaker 4: And you know, we've been at this for about seventeen
Speaker 4: or eighteen months, and it really is time for a
Speaker 4: lot of certainly people in many of the cities of Ontario,
Speaker 4: whether it's in Windsor or in Dryden, or in areas
Speaker 4: of forestry or steel or automotive, it's really time for
Speaker 4: us to make progress. And I hope that sitting down
Speaker 4: and taking on these issues seriously over the next week
Speaker 4: or so, we'll get us into a better place.
Speaker 3: I think that's really important insight.
Speaker 1: Given that Mark Karney, after the initial threat of this
Speaker 1: fifty percent tariff, said he'd spoken to the President they
Speaker 1: had agreed to intensify talks. We know that dominic LeBlanc
Speaker 1: and the top negotiator Jennis Shattett, met with jameson Greer.
Speaker 3: They posted a picture on Twitter.
Speaker 1: He said they had talked and had made some progress
Speaker 1: and would agree to meet further. You're saying there's still
Speaker 1: activity happening behind the scenes. Would you describe what you're
Speaker 1: seeing as an intensification of talks between Canada and the US.
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, And I'm not in the room the negotiations,
Speaker 4: but I'm in the embassy with the team, and I
Speaker 4: would very verify that there is a serious focus and
Speaker 4: attention to this here, as there should be. And I
Speaker 4: would point out as well that if you actually read
Speaker 4: through the American document on the Smooth Holly Act to
Speaker 4: section three three eight, it sets out effectively a complaint
Speaker 4: from the United States. And of course we can go
Speaker 4: back to understanding that this started with section two thirty
Speaker 4: two a year ago, and we're into retaliation on retaliation
Speaker 4: in a big spin cycle. But if you read the document,
Speaker 4: it's it's kind of important. And then it points out
Speaker 4: that in the last twelve months, the United States has
Speaker 4: seen a twenty two percent decline in their vehicle exports
Speaker 4: to the United States and just to put that in perspective,
Speaker 4: it really sort of sets the table I think for
Speaker 4: a discussion.
Speaker 3: Why is that.
Speaker 4: Why is that big decline of five point six billion
Speaker 4: dollars versus normal exports from the United States. It's because
Speaker 4: of the retaliation that the federal government did over a
Speaker 4: year ago, and so it has been noticed. And there
Speaker 4: are things that the Americans like, which is the market
Speaker 4: of Canada. Our auto trade is one hundred billion dollars.
Speaker 4: Put that in perspective. Our alcohol purchases are one billion dollars,
Speaker 4: and so it's one hundred times more important in terms
Speaker 4: of the auto sector. Some of the things that are
Speaker 4: irritations for the United States really come from things the
Speaker 4: federal government control, which is their retaliation against the United States,
Speaker 4: and so on a contingent basis, you do this, I'll
Speaker 4: do that, and that's the start I think of a
Speaker 4: significant discussion that needs to be had.
Speaker 1: Absent to deal though, you know, you've been talking about
Speaker 1: what are the retaliations to this retaliation to their initial right.
Speaker 3: Like it is a spin cycle.
Speaker 1: But your boss, Doug Ford has been one of the
Speaker 1: more vocal proponents of saying energy should be on the
Speaker 1: table in terms of one of the things we use
Speaker 1: as leverage in these conversations. The FEDS have said said
Speaker 1: they don't want to see that happen. Ontario controls its
Speaker 1: own energy exports into the US. Is it something that's
Speaker 1: still on the table as far as Ontario is concerned.
Speaker 4: Yeah, everything is on the table because we don't know
Speaker 4: exactly what will take place in the next three weeks,
Speaker 4: and you are wise to think through what your alternatives
Speaker 4: are beyond that period of time. But we did sort
Speaker 4: of just jump to the immediate question of how will
Speaker 4: we retaliate? What are our options? And that's fine. You
Speaker 4: need to be prepared, but you can't skip over the
Speaker 4: stage of negotiation. You have to show up and you
Speaker 4: have to be serious. And when you're here in Washington,
Speaker 4: you perhaps are more inclined to try and understand what
Speaker 4: the specific requests are or the irritants that are there.
Speaker 4: And some of those are the retaliations from Canada, some
Speaker 4: of ours are the initial tariffs from them. But we're
Speaker 4: now in a position where, in the most friendly nations
Speaker 4: on Earth, we have the opportunity to try and calm
Speaker 4: this down. And I want to be one hundred percent
Speaker 4: behind our Prime Minister and our federal team in having
Speaker 4: them take a good shot at that, because if you
Speaker 4: are in the city of Hamilton, or Sue Saint Marie,
Speaker 4: or in Oshawa or in Dryden, it matters. It's hurting,
Speaker 4: and so too is it hurting in the United States.
Speaker 4: If you think of the number of jobs that are
Speaker 4: lost because automobiles are being made in Korea and Japan
Speaker 4: and Mexico that used to be made in the United
Speaker 4: States to ship to Canada but no longer are twenty
Speaker 4: two percent down five point six billion dollars is a
Speaker 4: lot of vehicles that the United States did not get
Speaker 4: to make for their biggest customer, Canada, and they've identified
Speaker 4: that themselves. And so that to me is a starting
Speaker 4: point of Okay, well we've we've affected that in the
Speaker 4: last year. That's a good starting point. Would you like
Speaker 4: to sell to us again? Then we can start building
Speaker 4: on that. I don't think there are final deals with
Speaker 4: Donald Trump. I think just like in real estate, you know,
Speaker 4: when he reaches a deal, that's the beginning of the
Speaker 4: next discussion. And so I think you manage the discussions
Speaker 4: here and we have a burning platform of time, but
Speaker 4: we also have an opportunity and so I'm thrilled that
Speaker 4: we see a real intensification, to quote the Prime Minister,
Speaker 4: and I think that's called for and probably worth focusing
Speaker 4: on right now.
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure folks at home are
Speaker 1: following what you're saying about the auto terraffs. Because the
Speaker 1: Americans imposed tariffs on auto and auto parts, we had
Speaker 1: Canada had the reciprocal terrafts.
Speaker 3: It's basically a deal.
Speaker 1: That if you make so many in Canada, you could
Speaker 1: bring in that same number from the United States into Canada.
Speaker 1: You're saying that that is one of the big points
Speaker 1: of contention, And are you saying that there's an opening
Speaker 1: there that maybe we could back off of that and
Speaker 1: they could start to wind some of their terraffs down.
Speaker 3: Is that what you're saying.
Speaker 4: What I'm saying is, if you read what they put
Speaker 4: forward in the executive order, they point out that it
Speaker 4: is Canada's action in putting a on incoming vehicles, which
Speaker 4: are reciprocal tariffs and a remission program that is also
Speaker 4: somewhat punitive to vehicles. Ironically, the vehicles that are no
Speaker 4: longer coming to Canada are those that are made by
Speaker 4: companies like Nissan or are Mercedes or BMW being made
Speaker 4: in the United States that would now pay a twenty
Speaker 4: five percent tariff if they were to come into Canada
Speaker 4: over the last year, and so guess what. They no
Speaker 4: longer come from the United States. They come from other
Speaker 4: places like Germany or or Japan or the like. And
Speaker 4: that is an enormous shift of trade away from jobs
Speaker 4: in the United States to other places. And that is
Speaker 4: part of the federal government's retaliation that is still in
Speaker 4: place now. They also have a twenty five percent retaliation
Speaker 4: on steel that's been there for over a year, and
Speaker 4: similarly on aluminum, and these things are now being noticed
Speaker 4: and to me, that's a starting point for a good
Speaker 4: discussion as they go forward, there's many other issues. It
Speaker 4: will be complicated, but I think it's important to put
Speaker 4: negotiation ahead of retaliation and ahead of litigation.
Speaker 1: I've been checking in with you, probably monthly for the
Speaker 1: last eighteen months or just getting your sense really quickly
Speaker 1: before you go, where are you in terms of how
Speaker 1: you felt at the beginning of this, how you felt
Speaker 1: six months ago? Are you more or less optimistic now
Speaker 1: than you were at the beginning of the of the
Speaker 1: you know this last round.
Speaker 4: Well, I'd say I'm in a sense, in an odd sense,
Speaker 4: I'm relieved that we are now very focused at the
Speaker 4: table in terms of making concrete proposals back and forth,
Speaker 4: because when you're in Washington, you can more directly assess
Speaker 4: what the frustration level of the Americans is. I think
Speaker 4: we have a tendency in Canada to just write that
Speaker 4: all off as being silliness, and it's actually a genuine
Speaker 4: frustration on the part of Jamison Greer and others. And
Speaker 4: this is an opportunity to actually say, okay, well, could
Speaker 4: we be partners. And you know, when you do seventy
Speaker 4: five percent of your trade with the United States, it's
Speaker 4: worth sitting down and trying to solve problems. That's what
Speaker 4: the Premier of Ontario has tried to do with Fortress
Speaker 4: North America and say, listen, why are we turning tariff
Speaker 4: guns against each other rather than China. Let's build the
Speaker 4: economy together. And just in the last two days we've
Speaker 4: seen the American steel workers coming out saying it's time
Speaker 4: to remove tariff's Canada. And so we see American business,
Speaker 4: American unions, people in Congress and others saying, look, it's
Speaker 4: time for a deal and that will help us lift
Speaker 4: the economy and that's to the benefit of everyone. So
Speaker 4: I am pleased. I don't see magical complete agreements. We're
Speaker 4: not really dealing with the USMCA discussion. We're dealing with
Speaker 4: a side agreement. We need to get through that, and
Speaker 4: I think what we can do is work towards a
Speaker 4: good bit of progress this year, and even Jamison Greer
Speaker 4: said if we can do that, that's great, and then
Speaker 4: we can solve some additional problems next year. To me,
Speaker 4: that's life with uncle, and we have to keep on
Speaker 4: doing it.
Speaker 3: All right, We're gonna have to leave it there.
Speaker 1: But Ontario's representative Washington, Dave Patterson, thank you for this.
Speaker 3: Appreciate it. Thanks to here