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<v Speaker 1>Prime Minister Mark Karney says he doesn't see the value

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<v Speaker 1>in leveraging energy exports against the US amid those threats

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<v Speaker 1>of fifty percent tariffs.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not I don't see the value of doing. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I can understand conceptually, but I don't see the value

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<v Speaker 2>of it. We have many things we can do. The

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<v Speaker 2>first and foremost is to work towards an agreement. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what we're going to do. But there's other things we

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<v Speaker 2>can do if we needed to.

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<v Speaker 1>Canada's Minister responsible for Canada US trade, Dominic le Blanc,

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<v Speaker 1>has returned from his recent trip to DC for accelerated

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<v Speaker 1>trade talks with US representatives.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm joined now by Ontario's.

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<v Speaker 1>Representative in Washington, David Patterson. David, the fifty percent tariff

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<v Speaker 1>clock is now ticking pretty loudly, looming in just a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of weeks. Ontario jobs, of course directly exposed. How

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<v Speaker 1>what's your level of concern. How concerned are you that

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<v Speaker 1>this is actually going to go through?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, of course, very concerned when you understand the application

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<v Speaker 4>of that, should we not be able to avoid it?

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<v Speaker 4>And so when you have these tariff threats, which sadly

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<v Speaker 4>we've become more and more used to seeing you know,

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<v Speaker 4>you have some options. You can negotiate, you can litigate,

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<v Speaker 4>or you can retaliate. And I think we had a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of discussion early on about our options in terms

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<v Speaker 4>of retaliation. But I think the good news here in

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<v Speaker 4>the embassy in Washington is that it's a beehive of activity.

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<v Speaker 4>We have all of Canada's best negotiators here. They are

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<v Speaker 4>very active. They've been here all week. I suspect they

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<v Speaker 4>we'll be here all next week. And I think that's good.

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<v Speaker 4>And you know, we've been at this for about seventeen

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<v Speaker 4>or eighteen months, and it really is time for a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of certainly people in many of the cities of Ontario,

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<v Speaker 4>whether it's in Windsor or in Dryden, or in areas

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<v Speaker 4>of forestry or steel or automotive, it's really time for

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<v Speaker 4>us to make progress. And I hope that sitting down

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<v Speaker 4>and taking on these issues seriously over the next week

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<v Speaker 4>or so, we'll get us into a better place.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's really important insight.

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<v Speaker 1>Given that Mark Karney, after the initial threat of this

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<v Speaker 1>fifty percent tariff, said he'd spoken to the President they

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<v Speaker 1>had agreed to intensify talks. We know that dominic LeBlanc

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<v Speaker 1>and the top negotiator Jennis Shattett, met with jameson Greer.

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<v Speaker 3>They posted a picture on Twitter.

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<v Speaker 1>He said they had talked and had made some progress

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<v Speaker 1>and would agree to meet further. You're saying there's still

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<v Speaker 1>activity happening behind the scenes. Would you describe what you're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing as an intensification of talks between Canada and the US.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, absolutely, And I'm not in the room the negotiations,

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<v Speaker 4>but I'm in the embassy with the team, and I

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<v Speaker 4>would very verify that there is a serious focus and

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<v Speaker 4>attention to this here, as there should be. And I

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<v Speaker 4>would point out as well that if you actually read

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<v Speaker 4>through the American document on the Smooth Holly Act to

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<v Speaker 4>section three three eight, it sets out effectively a complaint

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<v Speaker 4>from the United States. And of course we can go

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<v Speaker 4>back to understanding that this started with section two thirty

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<v Speaker 4>two a year ago, and we're into retaliation on retaliation

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<v Speaker 4>in a big spin cycle. But if you read the document,

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<v Speaker 4>it's it's kind of important. And then it points out

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<v Speaker 4>that in the last twelve months, the United States has

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<v Speaker 4>seen a twenty two percent decline in their vehicle exports

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<v Speaker 4>to the United States and just to put that in perspective,

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<v Speaker 4>it really sort of sets the table I think for

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<v Speaker 4>a discussion.

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<v Speaker 3>Why is that.

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<v Speaker 4>Why is that big decline of five point six billion

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<v Speaker 4>dollars versus normal exports from the United States. It's because

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<v Speaker 4>of the retaliation that the federal government did over a

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<v Speaker 4>year ago, and so it has been noticed. And there

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<v Speaker 4>are things that the Americans like, which is the market

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<v Speaker 4>of Canada. Our auto trade is one hundred billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 4>Put that in perspective. Our alcohol purchases are one billion dollars,

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<v Speaker 4>and so it's one hundred times more important in terms

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<v Speaker 4>of the auto sector. Some of the things that are

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<v Speaker 4>irritations for the United States really come from things the

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<v Speaker 4>federal government control, which is their retaliation against the United States,

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<v Speaker 4>and so on a contingent basis, you do this, I'll

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<v Speaker 4>do that, and that's the start I think of a

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<v Speaker 4>significant discussion that needs to be had.

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<v Speaker 1>Absent to deal though, you know, you've been talking about

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<v Speaker 1>what are the retaliations to this retaliation to their initial right.

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<v Speaker 3>Like it is a spin cycle.

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<v Speaker 1>But your boss, Doug Ford has been one of the

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<v Speaker 1>more vocal proponents of saying energy should be on the

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<v Speaker 1>table in terms of one of the things we use

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<v Speaker 1>as leverage in these conversations. The FEDS have said said

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<v Speaker 1>they don't want to see that happen. Ontario controls its

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<v Speaker 1>own energy exports into the US. Is it something that's

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<v Speaker 1>still on the table as far as Ontario is concerned.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, everything is on the table because we don't know

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<v Speaker 4>exactly what will take place in the next three weeks,

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<v Speaker 4>and you are wise to think through what your alternatives

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<v Speaker 4>are beyond that period of time. But we did sort

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<v Speaker 4>of just jump to the immediate question of how will

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<v Speaker 4>we retaliate? What are our options? And that's fine. You

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<v Speaker 4>need to be prepared, but you can't skip over the

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<v Speaker 4>stage of negotiation. You have to show up and you

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<v Speaker 4>have to be serious. And when you're here in Washington,

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<v Speaker 4>you perhaps are more inclined to try and understand what

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<v Speaker 4>the specific requests are or the irritants that are there.

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<v Speaker 4>And some of those are the retaliations from Canada, some

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<v Speaker 4>of ours are the initial tariffs from them. But we're

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<v Speaker 4>now in a position where, in the most friendly nations

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<v Speaker 4>on Earth, we have the opportunity to try and calm

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<v Speaker 4>this down. And I want to be one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 4>behind our Prime Minister and our federal team in having

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<v Speaker 4>them take a good shot at that, because if you

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<v Speaker 4>are in the city of Hamilton, or Sue Saint Marie,

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<v Speaker 4>or in Oshawa or in Dryden, it matters. It's hurting,

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<v Speaker 4>and so too is it hurting in the United States.

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<v Speaker 4>If you think of the number of jobs that are

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<v Speaker 4>lost because automobiles are being made in Korea and Japan

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<v Speaker 4>and Mexico that used to be made in the United

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<v Speaker 4>States to ship to Canada but no longer are twenty

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<v Speaker 4>two percent down five point six billion dollars is a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of vehicles that the United States did not get

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<v Speaker 4>to make for their biggest customer, Canada, and they've identified

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<v Speaker 4>that themselves. And so that to me is a starting

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<v Speaker 4>point of Okay, well we've we've affected that in the

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<v Speaker 4>last year. That's a good starting point. Would you like

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<v Speaker 4>to sell to us again? Then we can start building

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<v Speaker 4>on that. I don't think there are final deals with

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<v Speaker 4>Donald Trump. I think just like in real estate, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>when he reaches a deal, that's the beginning of the

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<v Speaker 4>next discussion. And so I think you manage the discussions

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<v Speaker 4>here and we have a burning platform of time, but

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<v Speaker 4>we also have an opportunity and so I'm thrilled that

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<v Speaker 4>we see a real intensification, to quote the Prime Minister,

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<v Speaker 4>and I think that's called for and probably worth focusing

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<v Speaker 4>on right now.

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to make sure folks at home are

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<v Speaker 1>following what you're saying about the auto terraffs. Because the

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<v Speaker 1>Americans imposed tariffs on auto and auto parts, we had

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<v Speaker 1>Canada had the reciprocal terrafts.

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<v Speaker 3>It's basically a deal.

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<v Speaker 1>That if you make so many in Canada, you could

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<v Speaker 1>bring in that same number from the United States into Canada.

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<v Speaker 1>You're saying that that is one of the big points

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<v Speaker 1>of contention, And are you saying that there's an opening

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<v Speaker 1>there that maybe we could back off of that and

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<v Speaker 1>they could start to wind some of their terraffs down.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that what you're saying.

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<v Speaker 4>What I'm saying is, if you read what they put

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<v Speaker 4>forward in the executive order, they point out that it

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<v Speaker 4>is Canada's action in putting a on incoming vehicles, which

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<v Speaker 4>are reciprocal tariffs and a remission program that is also

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<v Speaker 4>somewhat punitive to vehicles. Ironically, the vehicles that are no

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<v Speaker 4>longer coming to Canada are those that are made by

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<v Speaker 4>companies like Nissan or are Mercedes or BMW being made

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<v Speaker 4>in the United States that would now pay a twenty

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<v Speaker 4>five percent tariff if they were to come into Canada

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<v Speaker 4>over the last year, and so guess what. They no

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<v Speaker 4>longer come from the United States. They come from other

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<v Speaker 4>places like Germany or or Japan or the like. And

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<v Speaker 4>that is an enormous shift of trade away from jobs

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<v Speaker 4>in the United States to other places. And that is

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<v Speaker 4>part of the federal government's retaliation that is still in

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<v Speaker 4>place now. They also have a twenty five percent retaliation

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<v Speaker 4>on steel that's been there for over a year, and

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<v Speaker 4>similarly on aluminum, and these things are now being noticed

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<v Speaker 4>and to me, that's a starting point for a good

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<v Speaker 4>discussion as they go forward, there's many other issues. It

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<v Speaker 4>will be complicated, but I think it's important to put

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<v Speaker 4>negotiation ahead of retaliation and ahead of litigation.

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<v Speaker 1>I've been checking in with you, probably monthly for the

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<v Speaker 1>last eighteen months or just getting your sense really quickly

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<v Speaker 1>before you go, where are you in terms of how

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<v Speaker 1>you felt at the beginning of this, how you felt

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<v Speaker 1>six months ago? Are you more or less optimistic now

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<v Speaker 1>than you were at the beginning of the of the

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<v Speaker 1>you know this last round.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I'd say I'm in a sense, in an odd sense,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm relieved that we are now very focused at the

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<v Speaker 4>table in terms of making concrete proposals back and forth,

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<v Speaker 4>because when you're in Washington, you can more directly assess

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<v Speaker 4>what the frustration level of the Americans is. I think

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<v Speaker 4>we have a tendency in Canada to just write that

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<v Speaker 4>all off as being silliness, and it's actually a genuine

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<v Speaker 4>frustration on the part of Jamison Greer and others. And

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<v Speaker 4>this is an opportunity to actually say, okay, well, could

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<v Speaker 4>we be partners. And you know, when you do seventy

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<v Speaker 4>five percent of your trade with the United States, it's

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<v Speaker 4>worth sitting down and trying to solve problems. That's what

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<v Speaker 4>the Premier of Ontario has tried to do with Fortress

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<v Speaker 4>North America and say, listen, why are we turning tariff

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<v Speaker 4>guns against each other rather than China. Let's build the

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<v Speaker 4>economy together. And just in the last two days we've

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<v Speaker 4>seen the American steel workers coming out saying it's time

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<v Speaker 4>to remove tariff's Canada. And so we see American business,

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<v Speaker 4>American unions, people in Congress and others saying, look, it's

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<v Speaker 4>time for a deal and that will help us lift

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<v Speaker 4>the economy and that's to the benefit of everyone. So

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<v Speaker 4>I am pleased. I don't see magical complete agreements. We're

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<v Speaker 4>not really dealing with the USMCA discussion. We're dealing with

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<v Speaker 4>a side agreement. We need to get through that, and

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<v Speaker 4>I think what we can do is work towards a

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<v Speaker 4>good bit of progress this year, and even Jamison Greer

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<v Speaker 4>said if we can do that, that's great, and then

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<v Speaker 4>we can solve some additional problems next year. To me,

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<v Speaker 4>that's life with uncle, and we have to keep on

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<v Speaker 4>doing it.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, We're gonna have to leave it there.

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<v Speaker 1>But Ontario's representative Washington, Dave Patterson, thank you for this.

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<v Speaker 3>Appreciate it. Thanks to here