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<v Speaker 1>In today's episode, we look at how a food safety

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<v Speaker 1>complained at an Amdabad school turned into a wider controversy

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<v Speaker 1>over books by Malala Yusufzai and An Frank. We also

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<v Speaker 1>turned to Kashmir, where the United States is considering whether

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<v Speaker 1>to review its travel advisory for American citizens visiting the region.

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<v Speaker 1>But we begin today by discussing three bills passed by

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<v Speaker 1>the Punjab government that it says will bring a digital

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<v Speaker 1>revolution to the state's education system. Hi a Michasharma and

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<v Speaker 1>you're listening to three Things the Indian Express New show.

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<v Speaker 1>Last week, the Punjab with Han Sabha passed three bills

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<v Speaker 1>pertaining to digital universities. These bills will legally enable the

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<v Speaker 1>establishment of three private digital open universities in Punjab, which

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<v Speaker 1>the ruling arb government says will pave the way for

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<v Speaker 1>digital revolution. But the opposition has objected to the three bills,

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<v Speaker 1>saying the flout guidelines and regulations of the University Grants

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<v Speaker 1>Commission for Online Education. So to learn more about these bills,

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<v Speaker 1>why the Punjab government is introducing them and the concerns

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<v Speaker 1>raised by the opposition, my Khalagiharakananda speaks to the Indian

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<v Speaker 1>Expresses one a month Singh China who reported on the

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<v Speaker 1>story for the newspaper. So, mana man, what do.

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<v Speaker 2>These three digital university bills passed by the government say.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, these three digital universities are supposed to offer courses

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<v Speaker 3>in the online mode to students of the state and

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<v Speaker 3>also students beyond the state because this is not going

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<v Speaker 3>to be a physical university and these are going to

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<v Speaker 3>be online modes of education. Out of these three universities,

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<v Speaker 3>two are going to come up in Patala and one

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<v Speaker 3>is going to come up in Oshiarpur. So basically there

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<v Speaker 3>will be a physical campus only for the purpose of

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<v Speaker 3>having administration facilities. There will not be any classes or

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<v Speaker 3>laboratories or any teaching which will be done on campus.

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<v Speaker 3>So the entire syllables or entire course will be taught

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<v Speaker 3>in an online mode. So which is why these universities

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<v Speaker 3>are being called digital.

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<v Speaker 2>But why does the Punjab government want to start digital universities?

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<v Speaker 2>Is there any specific reason behind it.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, one of the reasons, they says, they want to

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<v Speaker 3>expand it in the online mode because you know, more

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<v Speaker 3>and more students rather they feel are more interested in

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<v Speaker 3>education through online mode. And number two, they also want

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<v Speaker 3>to promote teaching of art subjects like artificial intelligence and

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<v Speaker 3>matters connected to that. So they feel that, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>this can be better taught in an online manner. But

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<v Speaker 3>it is basically just yet another mode of education which

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<v Speaker 3>they are promoting because Punjab already has several physical universities.

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<v Speaker 3>And what the government says, and we spoke to the

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<v Speaker 3>Minister for Education, he says that, you know, this is

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<v Speaker 3>a new method which is coming forth and Punjab was

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<v Speaker 3>taken it.

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<v Speaker 2>And Mnaman you mentioned that these universities will have physical campuses,

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<v Speaker 2>So what will their purpose be?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, yes, they will be having administrative complex. They are

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<v Speaker 3>required to have a certain acreage of land, so there

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<v Speaker 3>is a minimum land requirement. But that will not be

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<v Speaker 3>for holding classes or for you know, inviting students to

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<v Speaker 3>come and attend classes. So this will all take place

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<v Speaker 3>online in online mode. Only administrative facilities and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>for whatever office work they would require some sort of

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<v Speaker 3>a campus. So that is enshrined in the bill.

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<v Speaker 2>And tell us about the three universities that will be

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<v Speaker 2>established as a part of this, who will be their promoters?

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<v Speaker 3>So the promoters of all these three universities have a

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<v Speaker 3>background in education. One university which is named Cloud University

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<v Speaker 3>that will come up in Patala and that is being

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<v Speaker 3>promoted by educational group called the Riata and Barra Group.

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<v Speaker 3>They already run two universities in Punjab, so this will

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<v Speaker 3>be their third university. The other two universities of physical campuses,

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<v Speaker 3>so this is going to be their first online university.

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<v Speaker 3>Then there is a university which is going to be

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<v Speaker 3>called the Physics Swala Digital University. So Physics Swala is

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<v Speaker 3>a very well known brand as far as coaching is

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<v Speaker 3>concerned for NEAT exams or for JE so this is

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<v Speaker 3>a very well known group. So they are also going

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<v Speaker 3>to come up with a campus in Punjab. And the

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<v Speaker 3>third is another well known educational group which already has

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<v Speaker 3>educational institutions in and around Patiala, so they would be

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<v Speaker 3>coming up with the Digital University in Patiala. So the

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<v Speaker 3>first one, the Cloud University, is going to come up

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<v Speaker 3>in Hosharpur, and the MS University is going to come

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<v Speaker 3>up in Patiala and the Physics Swala University is also

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<v Speaker 3>going to come up in Patiala.

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<v Speaker 2>But we understand that these bills are facing criticism from

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<v Speaker 2>the opposition. What are their concerns yes.

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<v Speaker 3>The opposition has several concerns as far as these bills

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<v Speaker 3>are concerned, and particularly the Congress which opposed the introduction

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<v Speaker 3>of these bills in with Hansama. The first concern is

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<v Speaker 3>that there are violations of UGC guidelines. So what that

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<v Speaker 3>bill mentions is that these universities would be free to

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<v Speaker 3>offer medical, paramedical and engineering courses as well as MFILL

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<v Speaker 3>and PhD. So what the Congress says is that the

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<v Speaker 3>UGC Act, the University Grants Commission Act and their rules

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<v Speaker 3>and regulations they expressly prohibit online teaching methods as far

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<v Speaker 3>as medical, paramedical and engineering subjects are concerned, as also PhD.

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<v Speaker 3>So these subjects cannot be taught in an online mode.

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<v Speaker 3>As we know, law also cannot be taught in online mode.

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<v Speaker 3>So they have said that why has this been included

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<v Speaker 3>in the Act when this is a flagrant violation of

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<v Speaker 3>what UGC says. Their other concern is the lack of

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<v Speaker 3>oversight which the Punjab government will have on this private

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<v Speaker 3>university because the governor will have visiting rights to the

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<v Speaker 3>university and he can inspect the university. But the opposition

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<v Speaker 3>says that which governor has the time to go and

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<v Speaker 3>inspect universities and ombudsman has been provided for in the bill,

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<v Speaker 3>but that ombudsmen will also be appointed by the universities themselves,

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<v Speaker 3>So therefore the opposition says that this is not a

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<v Speaker 3>valid check, so there have to be some checks and

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<v Speaker 3>balances when if the university is going to appoint its

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<v Speaker 3>own person who's going to have a check on them,

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<v Speaker 3>then that will lead to inadequate checks. And there is

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<v Speaker 3>also concern over funding of the university. While the bill

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<v Speaker 3>says that the state government will not be funding these

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<v Speaker 3>universities and they will be funded by the promoters themselves, however,

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<v Speaker 3>there is a clause in the bill which opposition says

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<v Speaker 3>which says that state agencies can fund these universities, so

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<v Speaker 3>that also is one of the major objections. The final

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<v Speaker 3>objection is that there is a sort of a time

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<v Speaker 3>bound manner in which the statutes can be amended. For

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<v Speaker 3>first five years, the statutes cannot be amended without the

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<v Speaker 3>consent of the state government, but after the five years

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<v Speaker 3>the universities are free to amend their statutes. The opposition

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<v Speaker 3>also raises concerns on this issue. So overall, there are

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<v Speaker 3>several areas of concern which the opposition has flagged.

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<v Speaker 2>So Manaman, now that these bills have been passed, what

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<v Speaker 2>happens next? How do we see this process moving forward?

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<v Speaker 3>So the bills which have been passed by the Wahansaba

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<v Speaker 3>will now be put up to the Punjab Governor for

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<v Speaker 3>his assent, and in case he gives his assent to

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<v Speaker 3>these bills, then they become an act and the universities

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<v Speaker 3>can then come up in the finality, however, one of

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<v Speaker 3>the MLAs of the Congress has already gone and met

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<v Speaker 3>the Governor of Punjab and voiced his opposition to these

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<v Speaker 3>bills and given a complete charter of the points which

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<v Speaker 3>I've mentioned to you that they feel that they have

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<v Speaker 3>been inadequately addressed. So if the Governor feels that there

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<v Speaker 3>are some points which needs to be gratified, he can

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<v Speaker 3>send the bill back for reconsideration. But if he's satisfied

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<v Speaker 3>that there are adequate safeguards, he may give his assent.

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<v Speaker 3>In that case it will become a finality.

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<v Speaker 1>And next we talk about m Dabad, where a protest

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<v Speaker 1>over a school meal has spiraled into a much wider controversy.

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<v Speaker 1>It began at the Anna and Nicaithan School in Shillajs

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<v Speaker 1>locality after a class eighth student allegedly found a piece

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<v Speaker 1>of glass in the lunch served on campus. The student's

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<v Speaker 1>parents said he may have swallowed part of it, and

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<v Speaker 1>several parents later gathered at the school demanding answers. But

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<v Speaker 1>the issue did not remain limited to food safety. During

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<v Speaker 1>the protests, some parents also objected to the books that

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<v Speaker 1>students were allegedly being required to read, including books by

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<v Speaker 1>education activist Malala Yososai and The Diary of a Young

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<v Speaker 1>Girl by Anne Frank, one of the most well known

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<v Speaker 1>accounts of the Holocaust. So to understand how did a

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<v Speaker 1>complain about glass in a school meal turn into a

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<v Speaker 1>larger controversy over curriculum, we were joined by the Indian

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<v Speaker 1>expresses Ritu Sharma, who reported on the story for the

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<v Speaker 1>paper Rutu, could you start by telling us how this

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<v Speaker 1>controversy began?

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<v Speaker 4>So what happened was that last week on August eleven,

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<v Speaker 4>so several parents they reached at a popular private school

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<v Speaker 4>in Amherbad after a suspected glass piece was found in

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<v Speaker 4>a meal of a class eight student. Now, the student

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<v Speaker 4>felt something hard in his mouth while he was having

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<v Speaker 4>his lunch of normal bindi the alta pati rice which

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<v Speaker 4>was served in the school as a part of the

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<v Speaker 4>school meals only. So while he claimed to have swallowed

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<v Speaker 4>some bits, the remaining pieces he said that that looked

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<v Speaker 4>like glass. He said he handed it over to the

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<v Speaker 4>one of the teachers was in the dining area at

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<v Speaker 4>that time. This incident then led to a protest by

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<v Speaker 4>parents outside the school. So when they alleged that the

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<v Speaker 4>school management was not handing them over the suspected glass piece.

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<v Speaker 4>The parents of the boy alleged that they were showed

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<v Speaker 4>by the school to resolve the issue, but they waited

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<v Speaker 4>for hours and the school was not communicating with the parent.

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<v Speaker 4>There was no communication from the school and they were

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<v Speaker 4>forced to protest now. The parents said that the doctor

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<v Speaker 4>had asked for the piece their son had swallowed for

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<v Speaker 4>further diagnosis and treatment, so whether the child needs to

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<v Speaker 4>go under an endoscopy or not, else there is a

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<v Speaker 4>risk of internal bleeding. The parents also alleged that the

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<v Speaker 4>school was well aware about the medical issue but still

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<v Speaker 4>was risking the child's life. They said that the school

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<v Speaker 4>teachers were there because the school teachers had taken the

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<v Speaker 4>boy to the hospital to the doctor and they knew

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<v Speaker 4>when the doctor had kind of briefed the parents that

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<v Speaker 4>the doctor needed to have the remaining suspected glass piece

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<v Speaker 4>which the boy had swallowed for the medical diagnosis, else

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<v Speaker 4>they could be medical complications. Now the school informed the

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<v Speaker 4>parents about the glass piees that in a hurry to

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<v Speaker 4>take the boy to the doctor, they misplaced and lost

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<v Speaker 4>the glass piece. Now, but the parents in return, they

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<v Speaker 4>alleged that the school was kind of trying to save

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<v Speaker 4>its image and not handing them over the piece.

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<v Speaker 1>And for our listeners from outside and the bad what

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<v Speaker 1>all do we know about the school?

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<v Speaker 4>So the school we're talking about is Ana Nikitin School,

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<v Speaker 4>one of the campuses which is in Chilaj. Now, this

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<v Speaker 4>is a prominent private school in Gujarad. There are several

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<v Speaker 4>branches I would say is seven branches in Amdaba and

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<v Speaker 4>even outside Ambabad in cities like Masana, Baruch, Kaparada and

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<v Speaker 4>even Jaipur in Rajasthan.

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<v Speaker 1>And as you mentioned, initially it was over a piece

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<v Speaker 1>of glass. So how did it become a controversy about

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<v Speaker 1>children reading books by activist Malala Yosufzai and and Frank

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<v Speaker 1>because there is no obvious connection between the two issues.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you have correctcha. So now, however, soon the protest

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<v Speaker 4>over they suspected glass piece in Bindi soon snowballed into

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<v Speaker 4>an allegation against the school management for discrimination towards a

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<v Speaker 4>particular religion. As members of right wing organizations including Vishua,

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<v Speaker 4>Hindu Parishad and Badranda reached the school to join the

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<v Speaker 4>parents protest, it turned into allegations of school participating into

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<v Speaker 4>our practicing anti Hindu activities. Now what followed was open

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<v Speaker 4>allegations against the school promoting a particular religion its festivals,

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<v Speaker 4>ideology and even books. Now soon the parents also joined

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<v Speaker 4>these allegations. They alleged that the school has made it

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<v Speaker 4>compulsory for students to study books by Pakistani female education

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<v Speaker 4>activist Malala Yusuzai and trangu Is, the German born Jewish

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<v Speaker 4>diarist and Holocaust victim. Now they also started questioning the management,

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<v Speaker 4>claiming that they have heard the management of the school

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<v Speaker 4>has changed, even the school principle was changed. And there

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<v Speaker 4>were other allegations also that for the first time, there

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<v Speaker 4>was a holiday declared on Id and not on Ratiyatra.

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<v Speaker 4>And also the students have exams during Navratri, which is

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<v Speaker 4>one of the biggest festivals in Kudrat. The allegations even

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<v Speaker 4>came out as like now these were from by the

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<v Speaker 4>right wing demonstrators who had reached the school, that they

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<v Speaker 4>have even changed the school has even changed the morning prayers. Now.

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<v Speaker 4>In response to all these allegations, both by their parents

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<v Speaker 4>and the right wing activists, the school issued a statement

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<v Speaker 4>the same day and said that they would like to

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<v Speaker 4>clarify that literary works for internationally recognized authors including Malala

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<v Speaker 4>Yusubzai and Ann Frank are part of widely recognized education

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<v Speaker 4>literature and are included in the school's book club with

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<v Speaker 4>the objective of encouraging age appropriate reading, reflection, empathy, and

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<v Speaker 4>global awareness among students.

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<v Speaker 1>Andto in a broader sense. Most of the stakeholders you

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<v Speaker 1>spoke to talk about how these books are out of syllabus.

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<v Speaker 1>But then the obvious question is aren't schools expected to

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<v Speaker 1>encourage children to read beyond their textbooks? Like does a

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<v Speaker 1>book being outside the prescribed syllabus itself create a problem?

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<v Speaker 4>Apparently it should not, and it did not till August eleven. Now,

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<v Speaker 4>as some of the students said, these books were a

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<v Speaker 4>part of the book club for years now, and these

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<v Speaker 4>allegations also led to other show cause noticed by the DOO,

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<v Speaker 4>particularly regarding these accusations of these books and the morning Prayers,

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<v Speaker 4>though these were not a part of the regular curriculum,

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<v Speaker 4>but these were mandatory. These were compulsory in the book

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<v Speaker 4>club of the school, but not as a regular curriculum.

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<v Speaker 1>And so were these objections limited to Malala an or

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<v Speaker 1>are there others as well? No?

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<v Speaker 4>No, though there are other books also by other acclaimed

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<v Speaker 4>authors in the book club and even in the library.

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<v Speaker 4>But they were allegation accusations majorly on these two, and

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<v Speaker 4>even between the two, it was more about Malala now

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<v Speaker 4>to these. The school management also responded in its written statement.

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<v Speaker 4>This decision came after the protest a day after the

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<v Speaker 4>protests that these books which were mandatory for students as

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<v Speaker 4>part of the book club, so they were made optional.

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<v Speaker 4>So the school declared that these would be made optional

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<v Speaker 4>in the book club and the library, which are intended

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<v Speaker 4>solely to encourage reading a literary appreciation. So the school

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<v Speaker 4>said that the said books are not part of the

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<v Speaker 4>school's compulsory curriculum, not as students mandatorily required to read

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<v Speaker 4>them as part of their academic course of study. And

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<v Speaker 4>then they also assured that the school management has always

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<v Speaker 4>remained committed to complying with all the applicable rules and regulations.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, and you highlight how the curriculum consultant was removed.

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<v Speaker 1>So why was that?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, since the parents are alleged that the curriculum consultant

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<v Speaker 4>has tweaked the curriculum to add these books of Malalai

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<v Speaker 4>use of zi in anfrang, making it mandatory for students

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<v Speaker 4>of the school. Now, in response to these allegations, the

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<v Speaker 4>chairmen of Anna Nikatin Group of Schools Kamal Mangal give

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<v Speaker 4>it in writing to the state government stating that these

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<v Speaker 4>were incomplete and frivolous reports. The statement read, I quote

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<v Speaker 4>as for the incomplete and frivolous reports circulating that the

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<v Speaker 4>curriculum consultant is handling the profile of the head of school,

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<v Speaker 4>which are totally baseless. The school has never declared the

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<v Speaker 4>consultant as head of school in any of its communications.

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<v Speaker 4>She has always maintained that she would be a visiting

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<v Speaker 4>consultant to be invited as and when require, while also

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<v Speaker 4>providing her expertise to other organizations as per her discretion.

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<v Speaker 4>She is an independent consultant who travels across India as

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<v Speaker 4>well as abroad, imparting her knowledge and experience at various

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<v Speaker 4>other institutions. So the school announced to terminate the services

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<v Speaker 4>of the curriculum consultant, declaring that they would not be

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<v Speaker 4>inviting her for further consultations now. On the termination of

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<v Speaker 4>services of this curriculum consultant, the chairman. While we spoke

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<v Speaker 4>to the chairman, so he told the Indian Express that

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<v Speaker 4>since parents had protested her role in the school's operations,

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<v Speaker 4>it was decided to stop taking her services. He also

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<v Speaker 4>came out and said that the school celebrates all festivals

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<v Speaker 4>with equal fervor and all these are misinformations and rumors

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<v Speaker 4>that are being spread among parents. So after these protests,

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<v Speaker 4>the school also initiated the process of appointing an in

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<v Speaker 4>charge principle as the post of the principle was lying vacant.

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<v Speaker 1>And what happened to the original food safety investigation?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, interestingly, so there was an action taken by the

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<v Speaker 4>DOO against the school and this was against the show

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<v Speaker 4>cause notice which was issued to them. The DEO slapped

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<v Speaker 4>a finer Rupees ten thousand on the school under the

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<v Speaker 4>Right to Education at two thousand and nine, and you know, interestingly,

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<v Speaker 4>later towards the weekend, the parents came out with a

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<v Speaker 4>message on social media that they are standing with the school,

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<v Speaker 4>their full support for the school. So they were these

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<v Speaker 4>kind of messages which were going out on the social

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<v Speaker 4>media parents groups that they're supporting the school and they

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<v Speaker 4>do not have any issue with the safety of students.

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<v Speaker 4>And after these show cause notices the school they announced

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<v Speaker 4>that they have changed the canteen contract. They had also

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<v Speaker 4>suspended the canteen supervisor with the immediate effect, and kitchen

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<v Speaker 4>and food preparation areas are thoroughly cleaned and sanitized, so

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<v Speaker 4>there was an additional food safety and quality checks being implemented,

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<v Speaker 4>and the canteen service was also made optional and parents

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<v Speaker 4>who want to opt out of the same, the school

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<v Speaker 4>said they could be defunded.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the end, we talk about a possible shift

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States travel advisory for Kashmir. Yesterday, US

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<v Speaker 1>Ambassador to India Sergio Gore said that Washington is open

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<v Speaker 1>to reviewing whether the warning for American citizens traveling to

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<v Speaker 1>the Kashmir region should be downgraded. As reported by the

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<v Speaker 1>Unene Express is Navidritpal. Gore made the remarks after meeting

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<v Speaker 1>jamu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah in Shinakar. He

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<v Speaker 1>also described Jammu and Kashmir as an important part of

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<v Speaker 1>India and said this was his first visit to the region.

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<v Speaker 5>And so we will be looking at if the travel

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<v Speaker 5>warning that is imposed, that is recommended by the United

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<v Speaker 5>States is something that should be downgraded, because, as I

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<v Speaker 5>said earlier, this is a beautiful area. I think a

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<v Speaker 5>lot of Americans would enjoy coming here and seeing the

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<v Speaker 5>beauty and the opportunity says that exists here.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, the United States periodically reviews that travel warnings it

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<v Speaker 1>issues for its citizens. Gore said he could not make

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<v Speaker 1>any announcement yet, but that Washington would examine whether the

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<v Speaker 1>advisory concerning Kashmir still reflects the situation on the ground

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<v Speaker 1>and the reason he gave was significant. Gore said the

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<v Speaker 1>government's in New Delhi and Jamuyan Kashmir had taken what

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<v Speaker 1>he described as important steps to make the region safer.

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<v Speaker 1>He also pointed to Kashmir's tourism potential, saying many Americans

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<v Speaker 1>would like to visit and experience the region. Following their meeting,

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<v Speaker 1>Omar Abdullah said the discussion focused on India US relations,

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<v Speaker 1>but specifically on what greater engagement with the United States

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<v Speaker 1>could mean for Jamwan Kashmir. He also referred to what

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<v Speaker 1>he called certain legacy issues, saying these would need to

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<v Speaker 1>be addressed over time through discussions involving Washington, the Government

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<v Speaker 1>of India, and the Jamyan Kashmir administration. But Abdullah was

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<v Speaker 1>also careful to draw a boundary around that engagement. Before

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<v Speaker 1>the meeting, He said that Jamu and Kashmir's political problems

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<v Speaker 1>were ultimately matters to be resolved within India, and that

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<v Speaker 1>he was not interested in taking domestic grievances to a

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<v Speaker 1>foreign ambassador. So the significance of the meeting lies less

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<v Speaker 1>in any immediate policy change and more in the signal

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<v Speaker 1>being sent. If Washington eventually downgrades its travel advisory, it

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<v Speaker 1>could be read as an acknowledgment of improved security conditions

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<v Speaker 1>in Kashmir and could potentially encourage greater international tourism. For now, however,

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<v Speaker 1>there has been no formal change. Gore has only said

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<v Speaker 1>that the United States will review the advisory, while Abdullah

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<v Speaker 1>has indicated that conversations of a broader US engagement with

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<v Speaker 1>jam and Kashmir will continue. You were listening to Three

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<v Speaker 1>Things by the Indian Express. Today's show was edited and

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<v Speaker 1>mixed by Sesh Pawar and produced by Anaharikananda and me Ishasharma.

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<v Speaker 1>If you like the show, do subscribe to us wherever

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<v Speaker 1>you get your podcast. You can also recommend it to

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<v Speaker 1>someone you think may like it, with a friend or

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<v Speaker 1>in your family. This is the best way for people

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<v Speaker 1>to get to know about us. You can also tweet

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<v Speaker 1>us at Express podcast or write to us at podcast

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<v Speaker 1>at Indianexpress dot com.