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Start having the 50 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:59.640 most fun Ever at Chumbuck Casino dot Com. 51 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.680 It's never there, Idiby lost your conditions eating class. 52 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:15.560 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 53 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:18.680 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 54 00:02:18.759 --> 00:02:26.360 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every week, 55 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:30.319 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 56 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:34.400 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host 57 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:37.919 journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 58 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:51.759 Good Evening. Three time Emmy Award winning investigative reporter Mark 59 00:02:51.800 --> 00:02:54.759 Pettitt returns to write the final chapter in his best 60 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:58.159 selling and now newly updated book, A Need to Kill 61 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:02.759 The Death Row drawings. Dramatic and chilling new evidence comes 62 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.639 to light, exposing the sinister thoughts running through the mind 63 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:09.240 of John Jewbert, the man behind the brutal murders of 64 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:12.680 two young boys in Nebraska. In the spirit of Truman 65 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:16.840 Capodi's In Cold Blood, Pettit delves into the Jubert case 66 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:19.280 to tell the dramatic story from all angles as a 67 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:23.000 non fiction novel. In a series of exclusive face to 68 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:26.360 face interviews with Pettitt, Jubert admits to a string of 69 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:30.800 violent crimes and another killing that sends investigators into a frenzy, 70 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:34.520 ending with Jubert's being convicted for a third murder and 71 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:40.400 ultimately executed in Nebraska's electric chair. Now, Pettitt uncovers shocking 72 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:43.680 new evidence from Jubert's prison records proving the killer was 73 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:49.199 fantasizing about committing more violent crimes. Never before seen death 74 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:52.120 row drawings made by Jubert while he waited to be 75 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:56.280 executed once again send a chill through Nebraska and those 76 00:03:56.360 --> 00:04:00.599 touched by Juwbert's horrific crimes. In the update version of 77 00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:04.039 his book, Pettitt opens his investigative files to the public, 78 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:08.879 sharing never before seen evidence. Pettitt reveals aspects of Jubbert's 79 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:12.680 personality from exclusive interviews and details from the death row 80 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:18.240 discussions that have never been shared publicly. Criminal profiler Keith Howard, 81 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:24.120 who has who has investigated more than one thousand crimes, 82 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:27.000 weighs in with a dramatic assessment of the death row drawings, 83 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:33.199 calling Jubert a sexual sadist, pedophile, and organized killer. Howard's 84 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:36.879 full assessment of Jubert is included in the book. Pettitt 85 00:04:36.920 --> 00:04:39.800 is a twenty five year veteran journalist, a former anchor 86 00:04:39.920 --> 00:04:43.720 at CNN Pettitt also worked as an anchor and investigative 87 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:49.560 reporter at w XIA TV NBC in Atlanta and KMTV 88 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:53.279 three cb S in Omaha. The book that we're featuring 89 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:56.480 this evening is a Need to Kill the Death Row 90 00:04:56.560 --> 00:05:01.319 Drawings with my special guest, journalist and author, Mark Pettit. 91 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:03.560 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 92 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:05.720 agreeing to this interview. Mark Pettit. 93 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:09.240 Hi, Dan, and thank you so much for having me 94 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:10.600 on your show. I'm a big fan. 95 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:15.720 Thank you very much, Mark. This is an incredible opportunity. 96 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:20.639 Thank you for coming on. Let's talk just a little 97 00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:23.439 bit briefly anyway, because we have to. As we mentioned 98 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:27.279 in the introduction, this is the follow up to your 99 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:31.120 best selling book. Tell us when the first edition came 100 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:35.120 out before we get into this incredible story and why, 101 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:39.079 just briefly again, why there was a need for a 102 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:39.639 new edition. 103 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:43.360 All right, Dan, thank you very much. I've been covering 104 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:45.720 this case for almost thirty years. I was a young 105 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:50.639 journalist in Omaha, Nebraska, and I had come from Atlanta, Georgia, 106 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:55.079 a suburb of Atlanta, and you might remember years ago 107 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:58.600 a killer by the name of Wayne Williams. It's the 108 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:01.040 missing and murdered children's case. He said, Atlanta, are you 109 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:02.120 familiar with that? 110 00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:03.000 Yes? 111 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:06.959 Yes, So I grew up in during the time and 112 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:10.360 was in high school when those crimes happened, and I 113 00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:15.439 knew the fear that gripped the metropolitan Atlanta area. And 114 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:18.439 when I went to work in Omaha at KMTV, the 115 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:23.040 CBS assiliate, John Jubert had just been arrested, and I 116 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:26.040 was just blown away by the fear that he had 117 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:29.319 instilled in this community. And he had just pleaded guilty 118 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:33.399 to killing the two boys, and I became fascinated with 119 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:38.319 the case and started writing letters to the killer in jail. 120 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:42.319 I tried several times to go through his attorney to 121 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:44.959 see if he would do an interview, and it was no, no, no, 122 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.160 And so finally I decided to write to John Jubert directly, 123 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:52.639 and I used a self addressed envelope with the TV 124 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:55.639 station's address, and I sent him a letter that you 125 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:58.720 can read in the book, and to my surprise, he 126 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:02.879 wrote back, and it was the beginning of a conversation 127 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:06.199 that lasted over a year. I talked to Jubert seven 128 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:10.879 times on death Row, and you'll see how it unfolded. 129 00:07:11.279 --> 00:07:16.279 But during these interviews on death Row. I think Jubert 130 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:18.720 came to trust me and he started telling me how 131 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:22.800 this all happened, and he confessed to a string of crimes, 132 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:27.759 including a third murder in Portland, Maine. So when the 133 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:31.639 book came out, the original version came out in nineteen 134 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:36.680 eighty eight, and there were only five thousand copies that 135 00:07:36.759 --> 00:07:38.839 sold out in two weeks. I was just blown away. 136 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:45.920 And then the book went national as a paperback. And 137 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.720 there was one thing that I had not reported in 138 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:51.519 the earlier versions of the book, and that was that 139 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:54.759 John Jubert told me during one of our last interviews 140 00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:58.160 that he was still fantasizing about killing more children, and 141 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:01.240 he was drawing out his fantasy. And I said, John, 142 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:04.399 you're on death row, you're going to be executed, and 143 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.360 you're still fantasizing about killing kids. And he said, yeah, 144 00:08:07.720 --> 00:08:09.959 I don't know what's wrong with me. But they confiscated 145 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:13.879 two of the drawings from me recently, and I said, 146 00:08:13.879 --> 00:08:16.519 so the prison has these drawings and he said yes, 147 00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:19.279 And I said, would you let me get those drawings 148 00:08:19.959 --> 00:08:23.079 and have them analyzed by a mental health professional. So, 149 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:25.519 as you'll see in the book, Dan, and you've read 150 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:28.879 the book, so you know he took the pad. There's 151 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:31.800 a yellow pad that I was taking notes on. Gilbert 152 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:35.200 wrote a letter to the warden of the prisoner on 153 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:38.279 that day and said, I would like you to give 154 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:41.360 these drawings to Mark Pettitt so that he could have 155 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:45.399 them analyzed by a mental health professional. So the prison 156 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.960 refused and would not release the drawings. They felt it 157 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:54.320 would jeopardize his appeals. Finally, Jubert was executed in nineteen 158 00:08:54.399 --> 00:08:57.679 ninety six. And it always bothered me that I knew 159 00:08:57.679 --> 00:09:00.480 about those drawings but had not seen them. So with 160 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:04.600 the thirtieth anniversary of the crimes coming up in twenty thirteen, 161 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:10.200 I reapproached the prison through a Freedom of Information Act request, 162 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:13.840 asking them if they had the drawings, and they called 163 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:16.600 me back two days later and said we found them. 164 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:18.759 And I was like, you have the drawings and they 165 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:21.120 were yet, yes, we have them, and I said can 166 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:23.919 you describe them to me? And they said they're too disturbing, 167 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.759 and I said these need to be made public, and 168 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:31.120 the prison system refused. And I thought about it and 169 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:37.120 thought about it, and the prosecutor in Nebraska, Lee Holokov, said, 170 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.759 you should have those drawings. You should sue Mark, you 171 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:43.080 should sue the prison system to have them released. And 172 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:46.399 that's what I did. And initially we won the court 173 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:50.120 decision to have the drawings released, and so we were 174 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:53.600 days away from having the drawings made public so I 175 00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:57.600 could have them analyzed. And the then Nebraska Attorney General 176 00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:01.720 decided to appeal and the case was taken by the 177 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:06.240 Supreme Court of Nebraska and we ended up losing the 178 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:08.480 court case, and so the drawings were not going to 179 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:11.600 be made public. But then Dan, as you know, sometimes 180 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:15.039 fate has a way of intervening in a case like this. 181 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:18.480 And I got a call late on a Saturday night 182 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:23.320 and I answered, and he said, is this Mark Pettitt 183 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:25.919 And I said yes, it is the man that wrote 184 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:28.399 the book about John Jubert. And initially I thought it 185 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:30.200 was a joke, one of my friends calling me, and 186 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:32.919 I said, yes, it is the one that's trying to 187 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:35.679 get those drawings released and they won't let them out. 188 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:38.679 And I said yes, he said, I have the drawings 189 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:41.279 and I'm going to give them to you. And it 190 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:43.440 just gave me cold chills, and it gives me cold 191 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:47.000 chillbumps now hearing that. So, as it turns out, a 192 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:51.039 confidential source came forward and made the drawings available to me, 193 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:53.799 and that's why it was necessary for me to write 194 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:57.320 the sixth version and the final version of A Need 195 00:10:57.399 --> 00:10:59.320 to Kill the Death Row drawings. 196 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:05.720 As you do, you take us back to Lawrence, Massachusetts 197 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:11.799 in nineteen sixty nine, and John Jubat is six years old. 198 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:16.960 His mother's name Beverly, and so they're staunch Catholics. So 199 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:19.879 tell us a little bit about Jack, his father, and 200 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:23.840 Beverly and the life that you describe in the book 201 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:25.679 when John is six years. 202 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:32.440 Old, surprisingly normal life. He came from a divorced set 203 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:35.919 of parents. The mother was very demanding and she would 204 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:39.840 not let the children watch TV or violent shows. And 205 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:44.399 the father she considered a weakling and really didn't want 206 00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:48.159 her son seeing his father. But John Jubert went on 207 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:51.519 to be an Eagle Scout. So it's this dichotomy of 208 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:54.360 this young guy who goes on to be an eagle 209 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:58.159 scout goes on to be a US airman. But what 210 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.600 people didn't know is that there were some sinister thoughts 211 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:05.559 brewing in John Jebbert's head at six years old. He 212 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:10.120 felt that the babysitter and her mother were trying to 213 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:13.279 keep him away from seeing his father. So he told 214 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:17.039 me that he fantasized about killing the babysitter, and he 215 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.200 described it as a light switch, that he could turn 216 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:23.320 off the switch and she would be gone. So that's 217 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:26.440 when it started. He started having fantasies about murder at 218 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:30.480 six years old. It grew to cannibalism. And it's extremely 219 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:33.919 hard to believe until you flash forward thirty years and 220 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:38.399 read the assessment from Keith Howard, the criminal profiler, it 221 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:41.960 starts to all make sense. So Jubert's crimes progress. He 222 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:45.600 stabs a girl in the back with a pencil, he 223 00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.919 slashes a boy's throat, he stabs a young woman on 224 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.960 her way to college in the evening, and then that 225 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:56.320 progressed into the murder of Ricky Stepson, the young boy 226 00:12:56.919 --> 00:13:01.039 in Portland, Maine who was murdered. What I've learned since 227 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:04.039 then is that for a person like John Jebert, who 228 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:08.600 is now classified as a sexual sadist, an organized defender, 229 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:12.519 and a pedophile, the fantasy is never as good as 230 00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:17.200 the crime itself. So they continue to commit violent crimes 231 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.559 in hopes that it will become the fantasy that they 232 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:23.720 have in their heads. And according to the profiler, Keith Howard, 233 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.960 that never happens. So they continue to commit violent crimes 234 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:34.080 and murders in search of the perfect crime, if you will, 235 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:37.519 that will never happen. So that's how it started. Dan. 236 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:39.440 It was, you know, as you said, a young boy 237 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:45.399 in Massachusetts who moved to Portland. His mother was harsh, 238 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:47.679 but there was no abuse that I know of. That's 239 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:51.399 the first question I'm asked. Was he abused? And there 240 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:55.120 is no evidence that John Jubert was abused sexually or otherwise. 241 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:00.919 Now you talk about and again not to Blaine or 242 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:04.200 because many people have traumatic events, but you do get 243 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:07.879 so close to this subject that you can trace some 244 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:12.879 at least significant maybe even again not to throw the 245 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:17.600 term around, but triggering effects or triggering triggering events in 246 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:22.000 John Jewbert's life. So you talk about some of his 247 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:26.759 early life, like you said about the babysitter, but there 248 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:30.600 were other incidents that seemed to contribute to this, again, 249 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:34.039 the anger, and that's an understatement that we see later 250 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:36.840 on in his murderous behavior. 251 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:42.240 That's true. Specifically, Dan, he enlisted in the in the 252 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:45.799 Air Force and was transferred to Amaha, Nebraska and off 253 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:48.399 at Air Force Base, and that's where he really met 254 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:53.399 his first really good friend, and honestly, I think there 255 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:56.840 may have been some sexual attraction to the roommate, and 256 00:14:57.080 --> 00:15:01.320 that's got out that they were close, if you will, 257 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:06.120 and that maybe they were homosexual in the Air force, 258 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:09.960 and the roommate asked to be transferred, and this really 259 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:14.440 affected Hubert deeply because he liked his roommate. He thought 260 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:16.600 they were good friends. And I think that was a 261 00:15:16.639 --> 00:15:21.120 triggering event, as you mentioned, that caused him to start 262 00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:25.840 hunting more victims and ultimately killing more victims. And during 263 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:29.960 this time, he was a Scout leader in Nebraska, and 264 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.000 that's just so hard to believe that on the evening 265 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:38.240 of one of the murders, he was there with the 266 00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:42.320 scout troop speaking them to them that night, telling them 267 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:45.639 not to be afraid of the killer. It's just unbelievable. 268 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:50.600 And you also talk about too that what you do 269 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:53.080 write about in the book is that he befriends a 270 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:56.360 young guy, this don Shipman thinks this guy is not 271 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:59.080 only going to be an assistant boy scout, he's going 272 00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:02.639 to take over this attire thing. He introduces him to 273 00:16:02.679 --> 00:16:05.240 the mayor and the mayor says, well, you have it. 274 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:09.399 In the book, it's very cryptic quote, but again ironic. 275 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:13.879 Can you tell us what the mayor said about him? 276 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:17.080 Basically, we need young men like you in our community, 277 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:23.240 you know, welcome. And as you'll read in the book 278 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:25.559 and as you have read, Dan, he befriends one of 279 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:29.879 the younger Scout members and the little boy is so 280 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.320 confused about what's happening in the community and at one 281 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.919 point asked Gubert to tie him up with rope. He said, 282 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:40.080 I don't understand why these kids didn't fight back. Tie 283 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:44.720 me up, John. So this really triggered in Gilbert both 284 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:48.240 a fear and an excitement that he was like, no, no, 285 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:50.200 I don't want to do this, and he ends up 286 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:54.440 tying up the little boy. And the sheriff who searched 287 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:57.159 for Gilbert was a great man by the name of 288 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:00.799 Pat Thomas. He told me that he firmed believed that 289 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:04.599 that young boy would have been the next child killed 290 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:08.039 because Jubert could not control himself once he got into 291 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:12.960 that situation where the boy was bound and in fear. 292 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:15.119 And we'll talk more about that in a minute, Dan, 293 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.319 of what this was all about for Gibert was eliciting 294 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:21.400 fear from these kids in such a way that they 295 00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:23.720 knew they were going to be killed, and he wanted 296 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:27.240 them to watch him. And that's what's so important about 297 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:29.799 these drawings, the death row drawings that we'll talk about, 298 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.599 I'm sure in depth. I was very interested in what 299 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.200 some of the things meant in the drawings, and I'll 300 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:38.880 tell you more about that as we get into it. 301 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:45.960 Let's talk about the murders themselves, the Eberly Boy and 302 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:51.519 the Walden Boy and stats and so let's talk about 303 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.279 the Eberly Boy and how he comes in to be 304 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:58.160 in a position to be murdered. 305 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.039 And I really want to thank the families of Dandy 306 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.480 Joe Everley and Christopher Walden for first the access that 307 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:09.319 they gave me, the trust that they placed in me 308 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.279 to tell the stories of their young boys. I tried 309 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:16.160 my best to treat them with dignity and respect and 310 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:19.839 to tell their stories. But Danny Joe Eberley was a 311 00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:26.039 young boy, all American, you know, just a handsome, smart 312 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:30.720 kid who was a paper boy delivering the Omaha World Herald, 313 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.400 and that was what he was going to do the 314 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.119 morning that he was kidnapped and murdered. He was off 315 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:41.519 to deliver newspapers. So his mother saw him off in 316 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:44.039 the driveway, and this gives me chills as well. But 317 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:48.039 Judy was saying goodbye to her relatives who had been 318 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:51.319 staying with them that night, and so she was saying 319 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:53.839 goodbye to them as Danny Joe was peddling off on 320 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:57.279 his bicycle, and she said that there was an overwhelming 321 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.240 feeling that came over her that said, stop him, don't 322 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:02.920 let him go. And in the book she tells me, 323 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:06.119 don't be silly, Judy, don't be silly, and that was 324 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:09.680 the mother's intuition kicking in. So Danny Joe is on 325 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:15.079 his paper route and he's parked his bike against a 326 00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:18.839 chain lick sense, and he's down on his knees rolling 327 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:22.480 up the newspapers when suddenly he's approached by John Jibbert 328 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:25.160 and he stands up and he starts to walk, and 329 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.279 that's when Gilbert pulls the knife and says, come with me. 330 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.240 And I think Danny Joe was so shocked he didn't 331 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:34.839 know what to do. But there's also a theory that 332 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:38.680 he had met Gibert before that Gilbert may have approached 333 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:42.240 him weeks or days earlier, and so there might have 334 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.680 been some comfort and that he knew John Gibbert in 335 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.440 some way, and that's why he began to walk with him. 336 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:52.359 But Gilbert places his hand over his shoulder, pulls the 337 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:55.240 knife and says, come with me. And that's when he 338 00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:00.319 takes into the car, wraps his mouth, and Duck Hate 339 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:03.240 ties him up and puts him in the trunk of 340 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.279 the car and drives him to the place where Danny 341 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:10.160 Joe would be murdered. And that's off a dirt road 342 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:15.400 near Omaha, Nebraska. But Danny's family told me and the father, 343 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:19.759 Lynn Everly, said, I'll never understand why Danny Joe didn't 344 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:23.119 fight back. He said, we used to wrestle. He was strong. 345 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:26.480 I don't know why he didn't fight back. And that's 346 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:28.880 one thing I've learned from investigators too. If you're a 347 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:32.200 parent and you're talking to your children about these type things, 348 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:37.440 never go with the killer. Always fight back, scream, kick, 349 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:41.240 whatever it takes, because law enforcement will tell you the 350 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.799 second you get in the car you are that much 351 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:47.599 closer to being killed. You're not going to get away 352 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.799 with this. They're taking you somewhere that you're not coming 353 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:54.240 back from. So that's what happened to Danny Joe. Everley 354 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:58.680 kidnapped him, tied him up, took him to the remote area, 355 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.160 and stabbed. And it's just so sad that both boys 356 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.359 had begged Jubert not to kill them, to take them 357 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:09.240 to the hospital. And I said, John, why didn't you 358 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.680 just take him to the hospital, And he said, I 359 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.480 knew it was too late, and that's when he slashed 360 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:20.400 Danny Joe's throat, stabbed repeatedly. And this is really bizarre 361 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:25.000 and shocking too. He bit the boy's body on near 362 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:29.799 his thighs. And I asked the investigators and the profile 363 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:34.240 a what that meant, and it was all about control 364 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:41.319 and sexual sadism and pedophilia. That there's no evidence that 365 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:46.000 the boys were sexually assaulted or raped, but there is 366 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.440 evidence that if a child is five years younger than 367 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:53.960 the perpetrator, it is considered pedophilia. So that's what happened 368 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:59.559 to Danny Joe. Everley, you talk. 369 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:03.359 About it in your book about the horror that Judy 370 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:08.640 and Leonard experience just realizing they're getting a phone call. 371 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:12.000 He had a paper route, so they were getting concerned 372 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:14.400 phone calls and angry phone calls that the paper hadn't come. 373 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:19.480 And then finally the supervisor so the all the horrifying 374 00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:26.599 news unfolds gradually but quickly. You capture all of that. 375 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:32.359 You also talk about the Sarpee County Sheriff response, Pat Thomas, 376 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:39.160 you introduce the Omaha FBI. John Evans tell us about 377 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:43.599 this little about again the response by the family and 378 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:47.640 they find out because you do talk about the entire experience, 379 00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:50.920 even identification at the morgue before we talk about this 380 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.000 task force that's assembled. 381 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:57.480 Sure, so the family is in panic, you know Dan, 382 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:01.559 and there's a search for Danny Joe. Ever, a cold 383 00:23:02.200 --> 00:23:06.599 front moves in, it begins to snow, and that's when 384 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:10.079 they find Danny Joe's body, Danny Joe's body. But it 385 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:12.839 was so sad for the parents. They're getting phone calls 386 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:16.000 and where's my paper? Danny Joe is late, just like 387 00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:18.480 a child, not to do his job, those kind of things. 388 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.039 And then once they get to the morgue, when you 389 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:26.279 hear the story, it's so heartbreaking of how they have 390 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:30.119 to go in and they're debating what kind of casket 391 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.680 to get and part of them wants to be frugal, 392 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:35.960 they don't have a lot of money. The second part 393 00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:38.960 they want to you know, pay homage and treat Dandy 394 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:42.640 Joe with the respect that he deserves. So you relive 395 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:46.119 that you experienced that in the book, and that's firsthand 396 00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:49.200 from the family, exactly what they told me, down to 397 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.960 the younger brother bringing a pair of white tube socks 398 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.559 that he that he took from Danny Joe's bedroom and said, 399 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:01.119 please bury Dandy Joe in the sock. They were his favorites. 400 00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:04.359 So you really get to learn about these families. You 401 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:08.079