WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.600 --> 00:00:03.640 Welcome to the second ever episode of Super League three sixty. 2 00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:05.400 My name is Lee Addison. 3 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.519 And my name is John Davidson or. 4 00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:12.519 Santa Claus looking at him today. Obviously Super League three 5 00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:17.399 sixty has a British rugby league focused mostly and more 6 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:21.559 specifically Super League. But such is such is what happens 7 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:24.440 in rugby league. John, We've got about eight thousand topics today, 8 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:28.559 so we'll have to move quickly through this because whereas 9 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:30.640 a couple of weeks ago rugby league was very good 10 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:33.920 at manufacturing some news items, in the last couple of 11 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.640 weeks happenstance seems to have influenced them a little bit more. 12 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:41.359 I think, Yeah, I agree, there's a lot going on 13 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:41.880 about it. 14 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:45.880 Like you know, we could end up in all sorts 15 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:48.560 of directions today and in any other podcast. Sorry, I'm 16 00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:53.439 just fidgeting with my microphone. Yeah, that should be. 17 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:56.679 No. 18 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:59.359 No, this oblong thing. 19 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.599 We'll still dedicate sometime each each session to the NRL. 20 00:01:04.760 --> 00:01:08.799 We're probably recording fortnightly until the World Cup challenge. John 21 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:11.239 will get us some interviews, no doubt coming up soon. 22 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:15.760 The intrepid journalist John, tell everybody who you. 23 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:24.200 Are freelance Popular Jours and have paying for well at 24 00:01:24.280 --> 00:01:28.480 least fifteen years. 25 00:01:27.159 --> 00:01:29.120 Three years. Every time you say you come on. 26 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:36.000 Writing for anybody who pays me, but often the Iye Paper, 27 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:42.200 League Expressed, The Guardian, Everything, Rugby League forty twenty magazine 28 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:45.040 and many others the years. 29 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:47.439 If you're listening out there, just pay him, give him 30 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:51.760 some work. In fact, your best your best ever, Your 31 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:54.560 best ever quote was get get me in the eye 32 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:57.599 on the Ashes Rugby League podcast where this is still 33 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.920 being syndicated in the Rugby League Coach podcast. But if 34 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:04.959 you are listening to this podcast on Ashage Rugby League 35 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:08.400 or on Rugby League Coach Podcast, can I please encourage 36 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:11.319 you to type in Super League three sixty on Spotify, 37 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:14.639 Apple or wherever you get your pods, subscribe or follow 38 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:17.719 super League three sixty because it means less work for 39 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:21.439 me when when we just put this podcast out on 40 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:25.000 the Super League three sixty thing, give me Bob. I'm 41 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:28.560 an Englishman who's coached at n RL clubs and lived 42 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:30.639 in Australia for a long time. Can get me at 43 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:33.400 Rugby League Coach dot comver te you. I'm also the 44 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:36.439 host of Rugby League Coach podcast. Email admin at Rugby 45 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.680 League coach dot comver te you socials at Rugby League coach, 46 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:43.159 I'm going astray. 47 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:45.360 And who's lived in the UK for the last thirteen years. 48 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:49.400 You can get me on x Johnny D Davidson on Facebook. 49 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:55.599 John Davidson, journalist at Rugby League dot com long. 50 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.039 Breeds straight into it. 51 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.439 Then maybe an exclusive if Sean Wayne might not be 52 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:02.639 the England coach next year. 53 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:09.479 No, definitely not an exclusive that that seems to be 54 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:12.639 the talk that maybe it's sort of seventy thirty looking 55 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:16.919 like Way might be replaced. The RFL did a bit 56 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:19.800 of a media bringing ear briefing earlier this week and 57 00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:22.719 the quotes coming out of it that they were still 58 00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:25.520 looking into it and Sean will have his chance to 59 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:27.919 input the review. But yeah, there is a bit of 60 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:30.360 chat that it's likely that he might be going, so 61 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:33.199 we will and you know, potentially before the end of 62 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:35.000 this year, so we shall see. 63 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:37.199 Any replacement has been mooted. 64 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:41.240 No, I've not heard any replacements. I mean, I think 65 00:03:41.319 --> 00:03:45.240 the usual names would would crop up. I mean, I 66 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:47.719 think it probably depends on if they want to a 67 00:03:47.800 --> 00:03:51.560 coach who's not coaching a club, a head coach at 68 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.360 the moment, or they want someone outside of that. 69 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:57.400 But thick, yeah, tick tick. 70 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:04.439 Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure there'd be no shortage of contenders. 71 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:06.719 I think I think Michael Maguire ruled himself out a 72 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:09.879 few weeks ago when he was down in London visiting 73 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:12.879 the Lone Broncos and doing other things. But yeah, no 74 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:14.400 names have cropped up. 75 00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:16.560 As Yeah, sure, it's not an exclusive John, I've not 76 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:17.720 seen it anyway. 77 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:20.839 I've seen it. Yeah, it was on a it was 78 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:24.639 on another podcast. But yeah, as I said, it's not 79 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:29.639 something that I've heard that's been confirmed or locked in. 80 00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:32.279 There's just a bit of chatter, okay, and it's the 81 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:35.160 chatter normally reliable in your journalistic world. 82 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:40.199 Yeah, it's come from a pretty reliable source. But like anything, 83 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:44.319 I wouldn't unless I had stood up from numerous sources. 84 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:47.199 I wouldn't be beating my life at this point because 85 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:49.079 I would have if I was sure, I would have 86 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:51.240 written it, and I haven't written it. 87 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:57.720 So I think the most obvious place to start after 88 00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:02.319 that story is, since we last recorded, Salford Red Devils 89 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:06.519 don't exist and Featherstone rovers are on the brink of 90 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:10.600 not existing. If unless something's changed overnight, well, I've been 91 00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:14.439 asleep and North Wales Crusaders are rumored to have not 92 00:05:14.519 --> 00:05:17.560 paid their players for a while. So there's three professional clubs. 93 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:21.120 As somebody said on ex that's ten percent of the 94 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:22.560 professional clubs in England. 95 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:24.720 I think so. 96 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:28.199 I mean, first of all and acknowledgment that we are 97 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:31.560 in a tough time for the sport to suppose. 98 00:05:31.639 --> 00:05:33.600 But this sulfur thing. 99 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:36.360 Mate, you've you've written a big piece today actually as 100 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.639 we record, which is Friday the twelfth of December in 101 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:47.480 Australia and still the eleventh in England. You've wrote a 102 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:51.040 huge piece with somebody who used to be a director. 103 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:55.800 Yes, I've got a big piece with Paul King, who 104 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:00.680 was effectively he was running a club after Marlon Kukosh 105 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:04.519 walked away in twenty eighteen. Ran a club for about 106 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:10.240 seven years as managing director and then CEO. He's a 107 00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:16.560 lifelong Saltford fan. And then he handed over the reins 108 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:20.480 to the two New Zealand owners from Jacobson's, which is 109 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:26.680 Sia Khalily and Curtis Brown in February, and then Chris 110 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:30.519 Elmans made CEO and then Paul King came back in 111 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:34.360 in June. So he's got a pretty good insight, I 112 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:37.720 would say, and what's happened at Salford the history. And 113 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:41.000 he's also he put personal guarantees on his house to 114 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:44.879 get loans to cover some of the depths, to cover 115 00:06:44.920 --> 00:06:48.839 the payrolls, and yeah, he's head for bankruptcy now. So 116 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:52.120 it's a pretty sad tale of what's happened to Paul. 117 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:55.040 But it's a sad tale for the whole city of 118 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:57.959 Saltford for one hundred and fifty two year old club 119 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:03.040 for fans Selford like yourself ly, and there's lots of 120 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:05.560 players and staff still load money, you know, who are 121 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:08.560 probably unluckly to get it. So yeah, it's been a 122 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:13.120 bit of a black eye for the sport. And yeah 123 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:15.399 it's an important story. And I think, you know a 124 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:17.319 lot of things that have gone on at Selford haven't 125 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:19.920 been reported or come to light, and I think they 126 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:20.240 need to. 127 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:24.800 There's a few things that come to mind when this happens. 128 00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:31.879 So firstly, in terms of the up to date story, 129 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:35.680 in essence, this is the start of a new Sulfur 130 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:37.680 journey as opposed to the end of an old one, 131 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:40.240 because in theory a Phoenix Club can emerge. 132 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:42.800 In terms of. 133 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:45.879 My worry is none of these seem to have the 134 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:50.279 finances that a Marwan Kukash did have, So we could 135 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:53.920 be going with much of the same with with balancing 136 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:59.319 the books every every week, with not too much speculation 137 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:03.879 to accume late and going on going on that term 138 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:08.360 speculate to accumulate. I think looking at Salford's history over 139 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:11.519 the last thirty years, that's where they've gone wrong. Over 140 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:18.800 the last decade, they've and King referred to this in 141 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:23.560 your article. He was always trying to balance between keeping 142 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:28.639 his coach happy, aiming for trophies, etc. Versus keeping the 143 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:36.159 club afloat place, basically, And I don't you know, no matter, 144 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:41.279 I don't doubt mister King's integrity at all. There's no 145 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:43.799 problems there right now. I don't have no reason to 146 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:46.759 doubt his integraty. You know, there's two sides, three sides, 147 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:49.639 ten sides to every story. But right now, don't doubt 148 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:54.559 his integrity. But the reality is that it looks to 149 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.600 me like Salford have perished because they've done too much 150 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:02.080 speculation to accumul late when they couldn't afford it. I mean, 151 00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:05.720 a simple a simple business premise is if you spend 152 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:09.919 more than you are bringing in, you are going to 153 00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:15.919 be heading south eventually. So under John Wilkinson's stewardship, maybe 154 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:19.480 the two decades before Cuckash or if you like this, 155 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:23.519 last fifteen years or so, the club used to yo 156 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:27.360 yo between what we now know was the Championship and 157 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:30.159 Super League and it was frustrating at the time, but 158 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:31.919 you just knew the club was always going to be 159 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:36.759 there and I think Salford fans would cut their right 160 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:41.080 arm off to have that again. Quite frankly, yes, there 161 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:44.399 were some great times in the sense that they got 162 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.080 to the twenty nineteen Grand Final, they got to the 163 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:52.320 twenty twenty Challenge Cup Final think it was, and it 164 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:55.519 was the COVID one anyway, with no fans I think 165 00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:02.120 captain hindsight here, they obviously pushed too far. They obviously 166 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:05.840 pushed too far. And people that's not mister King who 167 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:09.480 I'm having a go out here, I have no doubt 168 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:12.759 based on what information I've read and heard, that he's 169 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:16.399 done what he thought was best. But there are also 170 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:19.480 people who've clearly been involved in the club who don't 171 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:23.639 necessarily have salted rugby league best interests at heart, who 172 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:29.000 have tried to push the envelope to to get certain 173 00:10:29.080 --> 00:10:31.879 things out of their journey in life and in football, 174 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:41.080 and they've pushed against the financial what's the term I'm 175 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:44.799 looking for, where your prudency of the club, if you like. So, 176 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:48.159 So look, I'm not saying anybody's done this on purpose, 177 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:50.840 but that's clear what's happened to me in terms of 178 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:56.000 the new ownership or now the old ownership. Trying to 179 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:59.159 get a read on what they are doing to your 180 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:04.399 average your average viewer and like myself and outsider, quite frankly, 181 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:14.039 is like trying to work out how gravity was formed. Right, So, 182 00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:19.480 but I do have a little bit of inside information 183 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:25.919 in the sense that there are allegations that it was 184 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:28.000 all about the stadium, it was all about the land, 185 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:31.639 it was about running the club down so that it 186 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:34.360 wasn't worth very much, and so on and so forth. 187 00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:38.360 So look, nothing that I can really talk about with 188 00:11:38.440 --> 00:11:45.840 any authority. But there's no doubt that since that crew 189 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:49.320 came on board to own the club this year, the 190 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:51.879 football side of things has gone from bad to worse 191 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:55.080 to even worse. So it's not been a good thing. 192 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:58.000 It's quite frankly, an absolute mess. 193 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:00.879 Yeah, it is a mess. I think, I mean, I 194 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:02.960 think I agree with a lot of the points you 195 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:06.879 made there. In terms of Paul King, I think, you know, 196 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:10.000 and people should go and read the piece that I've done. 197 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.799 But you know he missed, mistakes were made. You know, 198 00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:15.799 in hindsight everyone's a genius. I think his intentions were good, 199 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:20.240 but he was he was over ambitious. He thought, you know, 200 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:23.000 the club was relying on grants from the council and 201 00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:25.440 loans which they provided before. He was relying on that 202 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:30.440 which didn't happen. And obviously they had a model Salford 203 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:34.600 and you'll notice league it's not a big fan base, 204 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:37.159 and you could argue that the best place from the 205 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:42.600 Salford area generally go to other clubs Asia, Marley to Leeds, Wigan, 206 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:51.440 et cetera, et cetera, Australia exactly. But more recently, you 207 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.399 know there've been a club where look if you've if 208 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:56.200 you've run into some trouble. And I used a few 209 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.840 examples on two high profile ones that they made money 210 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:03.080 off or did well off, Jackson hay Things and Brady Croft. 211 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:06.320 If you know you're out of favor in the NRL, 212 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:08.720 you know, and they could get you on the cheap 213 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:11.000 and you come over and you join sulf and you 214 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.360 do well and you either get onsold to another club 215 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.440 like Brady did the Leeds, or you get a better move, 216 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.759 arguably to Wigan like Jackson did. So there was that 217 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:21.600 sort of they were that kind of club and that 218 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.360 they could take players who were you know, maybe project 219 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:27.399 players they could development or you know, improve them and 220 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:30.360 then sell them on and they did that with Tila 221 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.679 Da prew they did it with Andy Akers don't means 222 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:36.320 numerous players and you know, I think Paul says this 223 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:39.480 in the piece. In hindsight he should have sold Callen 224 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:43.840 Watkins and Mars Need last year, but you know that 225 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:46.399 he was under pressure from the media, was under pressure 226 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:49.720 from fans, the coaching staff. And I think you know 227 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:53.039 that that you mentioned about Sulfur being a YAlO club 228 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:54.720 and people would be happy to see that, and I'm 229 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.120 sure they are. But in this world of sport they're 230 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.480 in now, everyone wants more, don't they And those fans 231 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:05.080 aren't content just to you know, well, not to compete, 232 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:09.320 just to exist, and probably where Sulford are right now 233 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:11.399 is in and I think there will be a new club, 234 00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:13.600 a new Salford, a Phoenix club, but probably where they 235 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:17.279 will be next year is a part time championship team, 236 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:20.480 much like Swinton, and how many people will go and 237 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:23.919 watch them probably one thousand, you know, but that's probably 238 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:27.039 the reality where they are. And it's also the reality 239 00:14:27.080 --> 00:14:31.480 of rugby league in England and that every super club, 240 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:33.759 Super League club, even you know Wigan who gets seven 241 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:36.799 ten thousand people each weeks then play. They're losing money 242 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:39.360 and they're owned by a billionaire. So unless you have 243 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:46.559 a very wealthy individual to cover your losses, you have to. Yeah, 244 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:48.519 I mean essentially you're a part time club because there's 245 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:49.840 not a lot of income, there's not a lot of 246 00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:53.039 revenue in the game. That's just the reality. You know, 247 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:57.039 Ken Davey props up Huddersfield, Derek Bowmant props up Lee. 248 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:02.080 You know, there's numerous samples across so there's a lot 249 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:05.840 of tenants to what's happened at Salford, and you know 250 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:10.480 you mentioned Featherston. Slightly different story there, but similar in 251 00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:14.759 a way. They massively overspent trying to get into Super League, 252 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:19.279 you know, signing overseas players and wages they couldn't before. 253 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:21.559 But the common threat I think with a lot of 254 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:23.440 this and I'm not putting it all the blame on 255 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:27.000 the RFL, but they don't government sport as well as 256 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:31.200 they should. They don't take action. I think fence sitting 257 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:35.720 organization is a great term to describe them. And the 258 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:39.519 system's clearly broken because Cornwall went bust earlier this year 259 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:45.720 as well. We've had Godell rl FC they went bust. 260 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:47.720 I think it was in February March. I dont think 261 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:51.799 they even started the league. One season we had West 262 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:55.799 Wales was that last year, the year before, London Scholars, 263 00:15:55.799 --> 00:16:00.399 before that, Toronto and Bradford coming back in to Super Belague. 264 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:05.120 But I went into administration three times between something like 265 00:16:05.159 --> 00:16:11.120 twenty ten and twenty eighteen. Toronto went, Crusaders went bast 266 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:11.960 in twenty eleven. 267 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:13.200 You know it's not long list. 268 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:17.240 Yeah, it's not a new thing and the problem is 269 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:19.080 I think that people don't learn from these things and 270 00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:22.399 it will probably happen again in not too distant future. 271 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:25.360 Nigel Wood, who seems to be pulling the strings at 272 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:28.639 the Rugby Football League at the moment, the RFL. His 273 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:32.600 first response when asked this by a BBC journalist as well, 274 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.480 look at what's happening across sport there and he referred 275 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:38.600 to a couple of rugby union clubs. I think there's 276 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:40.919 one soccer club in a little bit of drama too. 277 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:47.679 I think just by listening to you there though, that's 278 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:54.080 like saying, well, yes you've got a a frying pan 279 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:57.720 that's on fire, but by houses on fire, but you're 280 00:16:57.799 --> 00:16:58.679 on fire as well. 281 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:07.359 He's not wrong, you know, Berry and uh Worcester and 282 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:12.079 rugby union and football clubs bus. But just because that's 283 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:16.640 happening doesn't mean all everything's okay over here. Now you've 284 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.200 got to look at how these things development and often 285 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:24.119 the characters involved and the decisions are evolved, and also 286 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.240 how the support really acts. And in terms of UK 287 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:30.079 rugby League, people don't learn, they don't take the lessons, 288 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:31.359 don't need the lessons. 289 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:38.000 No, I mean this is tides of history. Where where's Broxton? 290 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:41.079 The same things were happening in the seventies, you know, 291 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:45.720 apparently I am G gradings have changed now. I AMG 292 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:47.759 is a funny one, so for those who don't know, 293 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:52.240 those who are listening from outside the world of Super League, 294 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:57.000 I AMG is a world renowned international company in marketing 295 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:02.839 and international development if you like, who got in cohoots 296 00:18:02.839 --> 00:18:05.480 with the Rugby Football League for twelve years? Was a 297 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:12.799 deal ten years, yes, a decade anyway. And first of all, 298 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.960 this is exactly what happened in the nineteen seventies with 299 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:21.400 the Kane Report. Apparently what happened was mister Kane came 300 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:23.480 up with a lot of recommendations for the game. The 301 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.799 game chucked out two thirds, if not more, of them 302 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.519 because we're rugby league. We don't need these things. And 303 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:35.880 the game was on its ass then. So everything that's 304 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.559 old is new again, and IMG the modern version, if 305 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:44.720 you like, of the Cane the Cane Report, and same 306 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:48.119 things have happened. People have been criticizing IMG left, right 307 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:51.359 and center. Clubs have tried to force to get rid 308 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:54.240 of them and whatnot. But what has happened recently, John 309 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:57.960 is IMG have changed their gradings. So I think if 310 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.359 you can explain what the gradings are, maybe explain what's 311 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:02.359 changed as a result. 312 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.640 Yeah, I mean effectively the gratings. Each club in the 313 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.920 pyramid system gets a score based on numerous criteria, which 314 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.799 includes their on field performance, their off field performance, so 315 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:22.759 their stadium, you know, their finances, their sort of social media, 316 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.160 digital footprint. There's a lot of criteria there, but effectively 317 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:28.799 grading is just a move to a licensing system. So 318 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:33.839 promotion and relegation has always been in effect, mostly in 319 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.440 UK rugby league, and this was a move back to 320 00:19:37.720 --> 00:19:40.480 licensing of a form, not straight licensing because there is 321 00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:45.000 still movement between the divisions, but a kind of licensing 322 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:49.319 franchising system. Obviously, it's been very controversial to a lot 323 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:53.079 of clubs because it can cost them a lot of 324 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:56.839 money to improve their criteria, but also it's effectively been 325 00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:59.079 a kind of way you have to do this if 326 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:02.799 you want to progress, because I would say ninety five 327 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:04.960 percent of most clubs would rather spend if they're going 328 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.640 to spare fifty grand, they're going to spend it on 329 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:10.400 another prop or or a second role. They are going 330 00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:14.279 to spend it on another marketing person or their own 331 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:18.359 budget or improving their facility. So this is kind of 332 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.559 heaving forced or has made some clubs lift their games. 333 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:25.759 So I think it has been positive, but there's also 334 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:28.720 some of the greating criteria has been able to be exploded. 335 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.680 You know, use the example and I won't name any 336 00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:35.240 particular clubs, but you get extra points for bringing in 337 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.599 led boards to the stadiums. So what one club did 338 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:40.640 is bring them in for the week before they came 339 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:42.599 and visited the stadium, so they got the tick and 340 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:45.920 then they got rid of them. So there's ways you 341 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:48.240 can get around the criteria and I have clearly been 342 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.880 manipulated by several clubs quite well. 343 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:56.039 I'm a big believer that rugby league issues and sporting 344 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:58.519 issues should be started out on the field of play, 345 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:03.720 so promotion, relegation and whatnot. And I had to laugh 346 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:10.640 when all this money that's been spent on IMG, all 347 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.720 the money that was spent on the other independent commission 348 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:16.720 that decided the extra teams that came into Super League. 349 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:19.440 The actual teams that ended up in Super League were 350 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:22.359 the top two and three from the championship. 351 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:28.920 Anyway they they were, but just just one point therely, 352 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:31.599 you know, would you like to see the Maitland Pamlin 353 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:35.039 and can pick his play the Brisbane Broncos every week, 354 00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:36.240 would you like to see? They were? Really? 355 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:42.960 Different country, different different country, different different different expectations. 356 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:47.799 I think I think, I think promotion relegation and you 357 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:49.920 can argue it works for football, you can argue it doesn't, 358 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:57.839 but you look at the top league's NBA, NFL, NRL, IFL, A. 359 00:21:57.799 --> 00:21:59.799 Big one there the English Premier League, where there's a 360 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:02.000 part play all the way from the ocion to the 361 00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:02.640 top division. 362 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:06.240 There is and that's probably the most uneven and easy 363 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:10.160 to pick because you have men City spending two hundred 364 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:13.440 million quid on player salaries and you have the promoted 365 00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:15.160 team spending six hundred million. 366 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:20.240 You know, generally, it's also Britain's biggest export and during 367 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.359 the BXIC negotiation, Theresa May said we're going to stop, 368 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:26.279 We're going to stop the European countries watching the Premier League. 369 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:28.480 The Brexit deal would have been done in five minutes. 370 00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:33.920 And it's also the biggest, the biggest league on the planet. 371 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:37.559 It is and it wasn't and it wasn't in nineteen 372 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:38.119 ninety two. 373 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:44.160 But you can't have a salary cap system and promotion relegation. 374 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:48.160 I think that the two together you kind of have one, 375 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:50.119 you know, one foot in, one foot out. I think 376 00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:52.480 I think that's one of the key issues. 377 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:55.640 Let's look at this way, John, we have a salary 378 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:57.799 cap in Super League, in rugby league, and yet still 379 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:01.559 clubs are going bust. Yeah, what's the point of having 380 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:02.319 a salary cap. 381 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:06.319 Well, you can argue that get rid of the. 382 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:09.559 Salary cap, maybe more clubs would go bust. I don't know, 383 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:10.680 but yeah, I. 384 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:13.400 Think probably more would. But my point is I just 385 00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:17.720 the rugby league and for the amount of fans, dissiplanes 386 00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:20.440 and money in the game in the UK, I don't 387 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:24.720 think promotion relegation works. 388 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:29.000 What's interesting though, regardless of our opinions, we've had the 389 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:32.559 licensing system in the past, scrapped it for promotion relegation, 390 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.240 gone back to the license. It's the lack of long 391 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:40.480 term thought is somewhat frustrating. Talking of clubs that go bust. 392 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.599 London has been relaunched. I think I did a very 393 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:49.240 quick look and I think this is the ninth reincarnation 394 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:52.440 of London of rugby league in the professional rule league 395 00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:53.000 in London. 396 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:53.680 Is that right? 397 00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:57.759 I don't know if it's they're notis, but I know 398 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:02.160 they had Office Forum in nineteen eighty and then I 399 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:05.160 think they were the London Chargers or the London Crusaders 400 00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:08.240 for a bit, and then they went to the Broncos, 401 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:12.079