Speaker 1: Welcome to the second ever episode of Super League three sixty.
Speaker 2: My name is Lee Addison.
Speaker 3: And my name is John Davidson or.
Speaker 1: Santa Claus looking at him today. Obviously Super League three
Speaker 1: sixty has a British rugby league focused mostly and more
Speaker 1: specifically Super League. But such is such is what happens
Speaker 1: in rugby league. John, We've got about eight thousand topics today,
Speaker 1: so we'll have to move quickly through this because whereas
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago rugby league was very good
Speaker 1: at manufacturing some news items, in the last couple of
Speaker 1: weeks happenstance seems to have influenced them a little bit more.
Speaker 3: I think, Yeah, I agree, there's a lot going on
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 1: Like you know, we could end up in all sorts
Speaker 1: of directions today and in any other podcast. Sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: just fidgeting with my microphone. Yeah, that should be.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: No, this oblong thing.
Speaker 1: We'll still dedicate sometime each each session to the NRL.
Speaker 1: We're probably recording fortnightly until the World Cup challenge. John
Speaker 1: will get us some interviews, no doubt coming up soon.
Speaker 1: The intrepid journalist John, tell everybody who you.
Speaker 3: Are freelance Popular Jours and have paying for well at
Speaker 3: least fifteen years.
Speaker 2: Three years. Every time you say you come on.
Speaker 3: Writing for anybody who pays me, but often the Iye Paper,
Speaker 3: League Expressed, The Guardian, Everything, Rugby League forty twenty magazine
Speaker 3: and many others the years.
Speaker 1: If you're listening out there, just pay him, give him
Speaker 1: some work. In fact, your best your best ever, Your
Speaker 1: best ever quote was get get me in the eye
Speaker 1: on the Ashes Rugby League podcast where this is still
Speaker 1: being syndicated in the Rugby League Coach podcast. But if
Speaker 1: you are listening to this podcast on Ashage Rugby League
Speaker 1: or on Rugby League Coach Podcast, can I please encourage
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Speaker 1: super League three sixty because it means less work for
Speaker 1: me when when we just put this podcast out on
Speaker 1: the Super League three sixty thing, give me Bob. I'm
Speaker 1: an Englishman who's coached at n RL clubs and lived
Speaker 1: in Australia for a long time. Can get me at
Speaker 1: Rugby League Coach dot comver te you. I'm also the
Speaker 1: host of Rugby League Coach podcast. Email admin at Rugby
Speaker 1: League coach dot comver te you socials at Rugby League coach,
Speaker 1: I'm going astray.
Speaker 3: And who's lived in the UK for the last thirteen years.
Speaker 3: You can get me on x Johnny D Davidson on Facebook.
Speaker 3: John Davidson, journalist at Rugby League dot com long.
Speaker 2: Breeds straight into it.
Speaker 1: Then maybe an exclusive if Sean Wayne might not be
Speaker 1: the England coach next year.
Speaker 3: No, definitely not an exclusive that that seems to be
Speaker 3: the talk that maybe it's sort of seventy thirty looking
Speaker 3: like Way might be replaced. The RFL did a bit
Speaker 3: of a media bringing ear briefing earlier this week and
Speaker 3: the quotes coming out of it that they were still
Speaker 3: looking into it and Sean will have his chance to
Speaker 3: input the review. But yeah, there is a bit of
Speaker 3: chat that it's likely that he might be going, so
Speaker 3: we will and you know, potentially before the end of
Speaker 3: this year, so we shall see.
Speaker 2: Any replacement has been mooted.
Speaker 3: No, I've not heard any replacements. I mean, I think
Speaker 3: the usual names would would crop up. I mean, I
Speaker 3: think it probably depends on if they want to a
Speaker 3: coach who's not coaching a club, a head coach at
Speaker 3: the moment, or they want someone outside of that.
Speaker 2: But thick, yeah, tick tick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure there'd be no shortage of contenders.
Speaker 3: I think I think Michael Maguire ruled himself out a
Speaker 3: few weeks ago when he was down in London visiting
Speaker 3: the Lone Broncos and doing other things. But yeah, no
Speaker 3: names have cropped up.
Speaker 1: As Yeah, sure, it's not an exclusive John, I've not
Speaker 1: seen it anyway.
Speaker 3: I've seen it. Yeah, it was on a it was
Speaker 3: on another podcast. But yeah, as I said, it's not
Speaker 3: something that I've heard that's been confirmed or locked in.
Speaker 1: There's just a bit of chatter, okay, and it's the
Speaker 1: chatter normally reliable in your journalistic world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's come from a pretty reliable source. But like anything,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't unless I had stood up from numerous sources.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be beating my life at this point because
Speaker 3: I would have if I was sure, I would have
Speaker 3: written it, and I haven't written it.
Speaker 1: So I think the most obvious place to start after
Speaker 1: that story is, since we last recorded, Salford Red Devils
Speaker 1: don't exist and Featherstone rovers are on the brink of
Speaker 1: not existing. If unless something's changed overnight, well, I've been
Speaker 1: asleep and North Wales Crusaders are rumored to have not
Speaker 1: paid their players for a while. So there's three professional clubs.
Speaker 1: As somebody said on ex that's ten percent of the
Speaker 1: professional clubs in England.
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all and acknowledgment that we are
Speaker 1: in a tough time for the sport to suppose.
Speaker 2: But this sulfur thing.
Speaker 1: Mate, you've you've written a big piece today actually as
Speaker 1: we record, which is Friday the twelfth of December in
Speaker 1: Australia and still the eleventh in England. You've wrote a
Speaker 1: huge piece with somebody who used to be a director.
Speaker 3: Yes, I've got a big piece with Paul King, who
Speaker 3: was effectively he was running a club after Marlon Kukosh
Speaker 3: walked away in twenty eighteen. Ran a club for about
Speaker 3: seven years as managing director and then CEO. He's a
Speaker 3: lifelong Saltford fan. And then he handed over the reins
Speaker 3: to the two New Zealand owners from Jacobson's, which is
Speaker 3: Sia Khalily and Curtis Brown in February, and then Chris
Speaker 3: Elmans made CEO and then Paul King came back in
Speaker 3: in June. So he's got a pretty good insight, I
Speaker 3: would say, and what's happened at Salford the history. And
Speaker 3: he's also he put personal guarantees on his house to
Speaker 3: get loans to cover some of the depths, to cover
Speaker 3: the payrolls, and yeah, he's head for bankruptcy now. So
Speaker 3: it's a pretty sad tale of what's happened to Paul.
Speaker 3: But it's a sad tale for the whole city of
Speaker 3: Saltford for one hundred and fifty two year old club
Speaker 3: for fans Selford like yourself ly, and there's lots of
Speaker 3: players and staff still load money, you know, who are
Speaker 3: probably unluckly to get it. So yeah, it's been a
Speaker 3: bit of a black eye for the sport. And yeah
Speaker 3: it's an important story. And I think, you know a
Speaker 3: lot of things that have gone on at Selford haven't
Speaker 3: been reported or come to light, and I think they
Speaker 3: need to.
Speaker 1: There's a few things that come to mind when this happens.
Speaker 1: So firstly, in terms of the up to date story,
Speaker 1: in essence, this is the start of a new Sulfur
Speaker 1: journey as opposed to the end of an old one,
Speaker 1: because in theory a Phoenix Club can emerge.
Speaker 2: In terms of.
Speaker 1: My worry is none of these seem to have the
Speaker 1: finances that a Marwan Kukash did have, So we could
Speaker 1: be going with much of the same with with balancing
Speaker 1: the books every every week, with not too much speculation
Speaker 1: to accume late and going on going on that term
Speaker 1: speculate to accumulate. I think looking at Salford's history over
Speaker 1: the last thirty years, that's where they've gone wrong. Over
Speaker 1: the last decade, they've and King referred to this in
Speaker 1: your article. He was always trying to balance between keeping
Speaker 1: his coach happy, aiming for trophies, etc. Versus keeping the
Speaker 1: club afloat place, basically, And I don't you know, no matter,
Speaker 1: I don't doubt mister King's integrity at all. There's no
Speaker 1: problems there right now. I don't have no reason to
Speaker 1: doubt his integraty. You know, there's two sides, three sides,
Speaker 1: ten sides to every story. But right now, don't doubt
Speaker 1: his integrity. But the reality is that it looks to
Speaker 1: me like Salford have perished because they've done too much
Speaker 1: speculation to accumul late when they couldn't afford it. I mean,
Speaker 1: a simple a simple business premise is if you spend
Speaker 1: more than you are bringing in, you are going to
Speaker 1: be heading south eventually. So under John Wilkinson's stewardship, maybe
Speaker 1: the two decades before Cuckash or if you like this,
Speaker 1: last fifteen years or so, the club used to yo
Speaker 1: yo between what we now know was the Championship and
Speaker 1: Super League and it was frustrating at the time, but
Speaker 1: you just knew the club was always going to be
Speaker 1: there and I think Salford fans would cut their right
Speaker 1: arm off to have that again. Quite frankly, yes, there
Speaker 1: were some great times in the sense that they got
Speaker 1: to the twenty nineteen Grand Final, they got to the
Speaker 1: twenty twenty Challenge Cup Final think it was, and it
Speaker 1: was the COVID one anyway, with no fans I think
Speaker 1: captain hindsight here, they obviously pushed too far. They obviously
Speaker 1: pushed too far. And people that's not mister King who
Speaker 1: I'm having a go out here, I have no doubt
Speaker 1: based on what information I've read and heard, that he's
Speaker 1: done what he thought was best. But there are also
Speaker 1: people who've clearly been involved in the club who don't
Speaker 1: necessarily have salted rugby league best interests at heart, who
Speaker 1: have tried to push the envelope to to get certain
Speaker 1: things out of their journey in life and in football,
Speaker 1: and they've pushed against the financial what's the term I'm
Speaker 1: looking for, where your prudency of the club, if you like. So,
Speaker 1: So look, I'm not saying anybody's done this on purpose,
Speaker 1: but that's clear what's happened to me in terms of
Speaker 1: the new ownership or now the old ownership. Trying to
Speaker 1: get a read on what they are doing to your
Speaker 1: average your average viewer and like myself and outsider, quite frankly,
Speaker 1: is like trying to work out how gravity was formed. Right, So,
Speaker 1: but I do have a little bit of inside information
Speaker 1: in the sense that there are allegations that it was
Speaker 1: all about the stadium, it was all about the land,
Speaker 1: it was about running the club down so that it
Speaker 1: wasn't worth very much, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1: So look, nothing that I can really talk about with
Speaker 1: any authority. But there's no doubt that since that crew
Speaker 1: came on board to own the club this year, the
Speaker 1: football side of things has gone from bad to worse
Speaker 1: to even worse. So it's not been a good thing.
Speaker 1: It's quite frankly, an absolute mess.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a mess. I think, I mean, I
Speaker 3: think I agree with a lot of the points you
Speaker 3: made there. In terms of Paul King, I think, you know,
Speaker 3: and people should go and read the piece that I've done.
Speaker 3: But you know he missed, mistakes were made. You know,
Speaker 3: in hindsight everyone's a genius. I think his intentions were good,
Speaker 3: but he was he was over ambitious. He thought, you know,
Speaker 3: the club was relying on grants from the council and
Speaker 3: loans which they provided before. He was relying on that
Speaker 3: which didn't happen. And obviously they had a model Salford
Speaker 3: and you'll notice league it's not a big fan base,
Speaker 3: and you could argue that the best place from the
Speaker 3: Salford area generally go to other clubs Asia, Marley to Leeds, Wigan,
Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera, Australia exactly. But more recently, you
Speaker 3: know there've been a club where look if you've if
Speaker 3: you've run into some trouble. And I used a few
Speaker 3: examples on two high profile ones that they made money
Speaker 3: off or did well off, Jackson hay Things and Brady Croft.
Speaker 3: If you know you're out of favor in the NRL,
Speaker 3: you know, and they could get you on the cheap
Speaker 3: and you come over and you join sulf and you
Speaker 3: do well and you either get onsold to another club
Speaker 3: like Brady did the Leeds, or you get a better move,
Speaker 3: arguably to Wigan like Jackson did. So there was that
Speaker 3: sort of they were that kind of club and that
Speaker 3: they could take players who were you know, maybe project
Speaker 3: players they could development or you know, improve them and
Speaker 3: then sell them on and they did that with Tila
Speaker 3: Da prew they did it with Andy Akers don't means
Speaker 3: numerous players and you know, I think Paul says this
Speaker 3: in the piece. In hindsight he should have sold Callen
Speaker 3: Watkins and Mars Need last year, but you know that
Speaker 3: he was under pressure from the media, was under pressure
Speaker 3: from fans, the coaching staff. And I think you know
Speaker 3: that that you mentioned about Sulfur being a YAlO club
Speaker 3: and people would be happy to see that, and I'm
Speaker 3: sure they are. But in this world of sport they're
Speaker 3: in now, everyone wants more, don't they And those fans
Speaker 3: aren't content just to you know, well, not to compete,
Speaker 3: just to exist, and probably where Sulford are right now
Speaker 3: is in and I think there will be a new club,
Speaker 3: a new Salford, a Phoenix club, but probably where they
Speaker 3: will be next year is a part time championship team,
Speaker 3: much like Swinton, and how many people will go and
Speaker 3: watch them probably one thousand, you know, but that's probably
Speaker 3: the reality where they are. And it's also the reality
Speaker 3: of rugby league in England and that every super club,
Speaker 3: Super League club, even you know Wigan who gets seven
Speaker 3: ten thousand people each weeks then play. They're losing money
Speaker 3: and they're owned by a billionaire. So unless you have
Speaker 3: a very wealthy individual to cover your losses, you have to. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean essentially you're a part time club because there's
Speaker 3: not a lot of income, there's not a lot of
Speaker 3: revenue in the game. That's just the reality. You know,
Speaker 3: Ken Davey props up Huddersfield, Derek Bowmant props up Lee.
Speaker 3: You know, there's numerous samples across so there's a lot
Speaker 3: of tenants to what's happened at Salford, and you know
Speaker 3: you mentioned Featherston. Slightly different story there, but similar in
Speaker 3: a way. They massively overspent trying to get into Super League,
Speaker 3: you know, signing overseas players and wages they couldn't before.
Speaker 3: But the common threat I think with a lot of
Speaker 3: this and I'm not putting it all the blame on
Speaker 3: the RFL, but they don't government sport as well as
Speaker 3: they should. They don't take action. I think fence sitting
Speaker 3: organization is a great term to describe them. And the
Speaker 3: system's clearly broken because Cornwall went bust earlier this year
Speaker 3: as well. We've had Godell rl FC they went bust.
Speaker 3: I think it was in February March. I dont think
Speaker 3: they even started the league. One season we had West
Speaker 3: Wales was that last year, the year before, London Scholars,
Speaker 3: before that, Toronto and Bradford coming back in to Super Belague.
Speaker 3: But I went into administration three times between something like
Speaker 3: twenty ten and twenty eighteen. Toronto went, Crusaders went bast
Speaker 3: in twenty eleven.
Speaker 2: You know it's not long list.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not a new thing and the problem is
Speaker 3: I think that people don't learn from these things and
Speaker 3: it will probably happen again in not too distant future.
Speaker 1: Nigel Wood, who seems to be pulling the strings at
Speaker 1: the Rugby Football League at the moment, the RFL. His
Speaker 1: first response when asked this by a BBC journalist as well,
Speaker 1: look at what's happening across sport there and he referred
Speaker 1: to a couple of rugby union clubs. I think there's
Speaker 1: one soccer club in a little bit of drama too.
Speaker 1: I think just by listening to you there though, that's
Speaker 1: like saying, well, yes you've got a a frying pan
Speaker 1: that's on fire, but by houses on fire, but you're
Speaker 1: on fire as well.
Speaker 3: He's not wrong, you know, Berry and uh Worcester and
Speaker 3: rugby union and football clubs bus. But just because that's
Speaker 3: happening doesn't mean all everything's okay over here. Now you've
Speaker 3: got to look at how these things development and often
Speaker 3: the characters involved and the decisions are evolved, and also
Speaker 3: how the support really acts. And in terms of UK
Speaker 3: rugby League, people don't learn, they don't take the lessons,
Speaker 3: don't need the lessons.
Speaker 2: No, I mean this is tides of history. Where where's Broxton?
Speaker 1: The same things were happening in the seventies, you know,
Speaker 1: apparently I am G gradings have changed now. I AMG
Speaker 1: is a funny one, so for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: those who are listening from outside the world of Super League,
Speaker 1: I AMG is a world renowned international company in marketing
Speaker 1: and international development if you like, who got in cohoots
Speaker 1: with the Rugby Football League for twelve years? Was a
Speaker 1: deal ten years, yes, a decade anyway. And first of all,
Speaker 1: this is exactly what happened in the nineteen seventies with
Speaker 1: the Kane Report. Apparently what happened was mister Kane came
Speaker 1: up with a lot of recommendations for the game. The
Speaker 1: game chucked out two thirds, if not more, of them
Speaker 1: because we're rugby league. We don't need these things. And
Speaker 1: the game was on its ass then. So everything that's
Speaker 1: old is new again, and IMG the modern version, if
Speaker 1: you like, of the Cane the Cane Report, and same
Speaker 1: things have happened. People have been criticizing IMG left, right
Speaker 1: and center. Clubs have tried to force to get rid
Speaker 1: of them and whatnot. But what has happened recently, John
Speaker 1: is IMG have changed their gradings. So I think if
Speaker 1: you can explain what the gradings are, maybe explain what's
Speaker 1: changed as a result.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean effectively the gratings. Each club in the
Speaker 3: pyramid system gets a score based on numerous criteria, which
Speaker 3: includes their on field performance, their off field performance, so
Speaker 3: their stadium, you know, their finances, their sort of social media,
Speaker 3: digital footprint. There's a lot of criteria there, but effectively
Speaker 3: grading is just a move to a licensing system. So
Speaker 3: promotion and relegation has always been in effect, mostly in
Speaker 3: UK rugby league, and this was a move back to
Speaker 3: licensing of a form, not straight licensing because there is
Speaker 3: still movement between the divisions, but a kind of licensing
Speaker 3: franchising system. Obviously, it's been very controversial to a lot
Speaker 3: of clubs because it can cost them a lot of
Speaker 3: money to improve their criteria, but also it's effectively been
Speaker 3: a kind of way you have to do this if
Speaker 3: you want to progress, because I would say ninety five
Speaker 3: percent of most clubs would rather spend if they're going
Speaker 3: to spare fifty grand, they're going to spend it on
Speaker 3: another prop or or a second role. They are going
Speaker 3: to spend it on another marketing person or their own
Speaker 3: budget or improving their facility. So this is kind of
Speaker 3: heaving forced or has made some clubs lift their games.
Speaker 3: So I think it has been positive, but there's also
Speaker 3: some of the greating criteria has been able to be exploded.
Speaker 3: You know, use the example and I won't name any
Speaker 3: particular clubs, but you get extra points for bringing in
Speaker 3: led boards to the stadiums. So what one club did
Speaker 3: is bring them in for the week before they came
Speaker 3: and visited the stadium, so they got the tick and
Speaker 3: then they got rid of them. So there's ways you
Speaker 3: can get around the criteria and I have clearly been
Speaker 3: manipulated by several clubs quite well.
Speaker 1: I'm a big believer that rugby league issues and sporting
Speaker 1: issues should be started out on the field of play,
Speaker 1: so promotion, relegation and whatnot. And I had to laugh
Speaker 1: when all this money that's been spent on IMG, all
Speaker 1: the money that was spent on the other independent commission
Speaker 1: that decided the extra teams that came into Super League.
Speaker 1: The actual teams that ended up in Super League were
Speaker 1: the top two and three from the championship.
Speaker 3: Anyway they they were, but just just one point therely,
Speaker 3: you know, would you like to see the Maitland Pamlin
Speaker 3: and can pick his play the Brisbane Broncos every week,
Speaker 3: would you like to see? They were? Really?
Speaker 1: Different country, different different country, different different different expectations.
Speaker 3: I think I think, I think promotion relegation and you
Speaker 3: can argue it works for football, you can argue it doesn't,
Speaker 3: but you look at the top league's NBA, NFL, NRL, IFL, A.
Speaker 1: Big one there the English Premier League, where there's a
Speaker 1: part play all the way from the ocion to the
Speaker 1: top division.
Speaker 3: There is and that's probably the most uneven and easy
Speaker 3: to pick because you have men City spending two hundred
Speaker 3: million quid on player salaries and you have the promoted
Speaker 3: team spending six hundred million.
Speaker 1: You know, generally, it's also Britain's biggest export and during
Speaker 1: the BXIC negotiation, Theresa May said we're going to stop,
Speaker 1: We're going to stop the European countries watching the Premier League.
Speaker 1: The Brexit deal would have been done in five minutes.
Speaker 1: And it's also the biggest, the biggest league on the planet.
Speaker 1: It is and it wasn't and it wasn't in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety two.
Speaker 3: But you can't have a salary cap system and promotion relegation.
Speaker 3: I think that the two together you kind of have one,
Speaker 3: you know, one foot in, one foot out. I think
Speaker 3: I think that's one of the key issues.
Speaker 1: Let's look at this way, John, we have a salary
Speaker 1: cap in Super League, in rugby league, and yet still
Speaker 1: clubs are going bust. Yeah, what's the point of having
Speaker 1: a salary cap.
Speaker 3: Well, you can argue that get rid of the.
Speaker 2: Salary cap, maybe more clubs would go bust. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Think probably more would. But my point is I just
Speaker 3: the rugby league and for the amount of fans, dissiplanes
Speaker 3: and money in the game in the UK, I don't
Speaker 3: think promotion relegation works.
Speaker 1: What's interesting though, regardless of our opinions, we've had the
Speaker 1: licensing system in the past, scrapped it for promotion relegation,
Speaker 1: gone back to the license. It's the lack of long
Speaker 1: term thought is somewhat frustrating. Talking of clubs that go bust.
Speaker 1: London has been relaunched. I think I did a very
Speaker 1: quick look and I think this is the ninth reincarnation
Speaker 1: of London of rugby league in the professional rule league
Speaker 1: in London.
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's they're notis, but I know
Speaker 3: they had Office Forum in nineteen eighty and then I
Speaker 3: think they were the London Chargers or the London Crusaders
Speaker 3: for a bit, and then they went to the Broncos,
Speaker 3: and then they were and they went back to the Bronco.
Speaker 3: They've had about fifteen different stadiums in London. Yeah, they
Speaker 3: have a lot of iterations tried.
Speaker 1: They've tried a lot, so they've relaunched or what's going
Speaker 1: to be different?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean we were remained to be seen what's
Speaker 3: it's going to be different, But the early times I
Speaker 3: think have been positive. Obviously Grant weissall a mining magnet
Speaker 3: from Australia, and Darren Lockyer are effectively the owners now
Speaker 3: they've seen well resourced. I mean Darren Lockyer, I don't
Speaker 3: know if you're going to pick a thirteen of the
Speaker 3: best players to ever play rugby league in the history
Speaker 3: of the sport, he probably makes it. I mean, depends
Speaker 3: where you're from and what you're a club. It doesn't
Speaker 3: necessarily mean he can run a club. But he's on
Speaker 3: the board of the Bronco and I think he's very
Speaker 3: well connected and has a better understanding of the sport
Speaker 3: than you know, some of the other people who've run
Speaker 3: London in the past. Look Richard Branston ran London Broadcos
Speaker 3: for a while. When a loss has started Mount RP
Speaker 3: he took a hike. I think it was because he
Speaker 3: sounded like the sport. You know, there's there's been lots
Speaker 3: of money pumped into London by different people. But you know,
Speaker 3: with the changes that they're making, bringing Jason Demetri, the
Speaker 3: signings that they've made, they're actually out there marketing, engaging.
Speaker 3: They've been They've been very good with the media, you know.
Speaker 3: I've done a couple of interviews, planning a few more.
Speaker 3: They're much more engaging with the media than the vast
Speaker 3: majority of social media, so than Super League clubs. So look,
Speaker 3: I think they're they're going to have a real go
Speaker 3: of it, and there's positive science, but it is the
Speaker 3: top market crack. I mean, if you look at what
Speaker 3: News Limited did with Melbourne Storm from nine nine until
Speaker 3: you know, more recently, I think there's about forty million
Speaker 3: quid they pumped in, you know, and they helped the
Speaker 3: storm out in different ways like super Legg's never done
Speaker 3: that with the landon Broncos and a lot of the
Speaker 3: clubs have been against them even existing. A lot of
Speaker 3: the fans don't want they don't want a landon.
Speaker 1: No people in Australia who are who are now getting
Speaker 1: involved and overthinking of getting involved, and obviously there's an
Speaker 1: undercurrent of physic NRL going to be involved in the
Speaker 1: Super LEU going on. They are you know, they're saying
Speaker 1: things in Australia now that we said in England thirty
Speaker 1: years ago, we need a presence in London. It's the
Speaker 1: obvious market, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What people
Speaker 1: miss for me is nobody in London follows a soccer
Speaker 1: team called London or I know there are London Wasps
Speaker 1: or the were London Wasps.
Speaker 3: The land line in the basketball.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean I mean London Lions. I mean
Speaker 1: they don't get forty thousand. So I would like to
Speaker 1: see London attached to a borough or a suburb. That's
Speaker 1: what I would prefer to see. I think it's a
Speaker 1: more chance of succeeding now. I also think in the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties when this happened when they attached to Fulham
Speaker 1: Football Club, that if that was allowed to stick out,
Speaker 1: maybe or maybe it's a different club. Maybe it's maybe
Speaker 1: we need the fellow at Chelsea to take on a
Speaker 1: Chelsea rugby League team or something, you know, somebody with
Speaker 1: deep pockets literally that would be that would be the
Speaker 1: future of rugby league in London for me. Now, I'm
Speaker 1: going to keep going through the topics job because you
Speaker 1: know what you and highlight. We could debate something forever.
Speaker 2: What's this.
Speaker 1: National Conference League Rugby Football League thing. I've heard about
Speaker 1: this quite a bit. People have been quite ray texted
Speaker 1: me about it and stuff. They have really studied this,
Speaker 1: I must admit because of other stories, I've not chased
Speaker 1: it up a lot. But effectively, the National Conference League
Speaker 1: is kind of the elite amateur level, so it's below
Speaker 1: the League one and there's a lot of clubs in
Speaker 1: that division.
Speaker 3: Effectively, the RFL said to them, look, we want to
Speaker 3: regionalize it. We don't want a national we want to
Speaker 3: make it into specific regions. The clubs were not happy
Speaker 3: about this. I don't think they were consulted. The RFL
Speaker 3: is trying to kind of ram row it through, so
Speaker 3: there's been a lot of noses put out a join.
Speaker 3: I think the NCL is considering legal action, and yeah,
Speaker 3: it's very messy. I mean, if you add it up
Speaker 3: to all the other kind of crisises of the RFL
Speaker 3: Super League have been dealing with this year, it's just
Speaker 3: another add to the long list.
Speaker 1: Now, some people say, John, because we get accused of
Speaker 1: this with this is negative negative, you know, you're not
Speaker 1: allowed to say anything that's not warm and fuddy. I've
Speaker 1: got a new quote for your negativity is actually counter accountability.
Speaker 2: That's what it is.
Speaker 3: I'm just merely pointing out what's been happening, not being.
Speaker 1: So negative, John, And you be careful agreeing with me
Speaker 1: because somebody will tweet about it and associate with me
Speaker 1: as if you're in bed with me.
Speaker 3: To I need to point out to that tweeter that
Speaker 3: you know, you do talk a lot of ship and
Speaker 3: you know stupid things. But anyways, opposed.
Speaker 1: To you, Tony Sutton, the man who did a Google
Speaker 1: check to check that Salford's owners were good and we
Speaker 1: all know how that ended up, could be going toole
Speaker 1: f C.
Speaker 3: He is going to my exclusive confirm by the club
Speaker 3: the other day. Yeah. Effectively he was planted from the
Speaker 3: r FL and the sulfur debarcle I think was a
Speaker 3: big reason for that. He had an even lower media
Speaker 3: profile than Ralpha Reniger Wood, who were not you know,
Speaker 3: in the Peter of Landy scale of of me. So
Speaker 3: he was basically mister invisible. And he did work at
Speaker 3: holi C before as the finance director county background. So
Speaker 3: he's gone back to halt. I mean you could just
Speaker 3: say it's another example of English rugby leaver recycling the
Speaker 3: same faces as it always does.
Speaker 1: M let's talk a little bit of rugby league now
Speaker 1: as opposed to it's off field. Shenanigans a Frenchman whose
Speaker 1: name escapes me. And I'm only making making the fact
Speaker 1: norm that he was French because I thought it was
Speaker 1: a really good comment. I really agree with him. He
Speaker 1: said basically, the Rooks are too slow in Super League
Speaker 1: and there was too much wrestling.
Speaker 3: Wholes.
Speaker 1: Yeah he's a good fellow, Yeah, good coach. Yeah yeah
Speaker 1: Sylvan What did he say and what was he on about?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, Steve mathboots story. He was out in France
Speaker 3: and he interviewed Joel Tompkins at Catalans Sylvan and Toulouse
Speaker 3: and numerous other people, and effectively it was just I
Speaker 3: think the Ashes was a real wake up call for
Speaker 3: a lot of people, not only in the English game
Speaker 3: of Australia, because I think in Australia a lot of
Speaker 3: people see super leggs, this bath attacking. You know, defenses
Speaker 3: aren't great, but lots of attack and all this sort
Speaker 3: of thing. And then when it came to England against Australia.
Speaker 3: Actually actually they're quite slow. Yeah, they're not very dynamic
Speaker 3: and the NRAL has changed a lot, particularly with the
Speaker 3: six again rule, but in the last couple of years
Speaker 3: you could said the last five or six and the
Speaker 3: wrestle it's a lot more game built around speed around
Speaker 3: actually throwing the footy around and it's less grinding and
Speaker 3: kind of Melbourne style wrestler that we had ten years ago,
Speaker 3: fifteen years ago, eighteen years ago. But Super League is
Speaker 3: still sort of cut in that restal area. And that
Speaker 3: was basically what those two coaches were advocating. I know
Speaker 3: I'd spoken to Maddy Pete earlier in the year. He
Speaker 3: advocates the same thing. I spoke to Ryan Carr, who
Speaker 3: is the new coach at Castleford has just joined from
Speaker 3: the Saint George of Laworld Dragons where his assistant coach.
Speaker 3: He basically said the same thing to me. You know,
Speaker 3: a lot of you know, long time speed is a
Speaker 3: big thing, but a lot of clubs are just basically
Speaker 3: you know, the ten meters is more like nine or
Speaker 3: eight and a half. So I think effectively there is
Speaker 3: seems to be some acknowledgment across the competition that we
Speaker 3: need to speed the game up in Super League, we
Speaker 3: need to police the ruck better and if players are
Speaker 3: lying all over the ball, then panalize them and I'll
Speaker 3: quickly you know, and well, you know that will improve
Speaker 3: the product and you know will also help England compete
Speaker 3: better on the national stage.
Speaker 1: I remember thinking how slow the roough speed was in
Speaker 1: the Super League Grand Final, having what the NRL Grand
Speaker 1: Final the week before, so it was a very it
Speaker 1: was an Apple and an Apple comparison. That said, I've
Speaker 1: got an analysis of some of who KR's work at
Speaker 1: the end of this podcast and the videos already out
Speaker 1: on YouTube on the Rugby League Coach YouTube channel. I
Speaker 1: would say that looking at the Super League Grand Final,
Speaker 1: Jo k Are were a bit more obsessed with hitting.
Speaker 1: So I talk a lot about the contact line. So
Speaker 1: when the point when the attacker meets a defender, the
Speaker 1: literal point when they make connection, that's the contact line.
Speaker 1: And who k Are tended to tackle, put shoulders in
Speaker 1: and stop the wig and runners, whereas Wigan tended to
Speaker 1: go in to catch. They were open chested, arms wide
Speaker 1: And I once described this better than a about to
Speaker 1: describe it now, but I would describe it as like
Speaker 1: if you imagine three bouncers coming home, taking taking someboday
Speaker 1: home from a night club who's drunk, and then very
Speaker 1: carefully lying them down in bed so that they went
Speaker 1: to sleep without vomiting. That's how I would describe a
Speaker 1: lot of the wrestling that goes on in rugby league.
Speaker 2: And there's a there's.
Speaker 1: A clear clip on in the Super League Grand Final
Speaker 1: where very early on Wigan players came in very aggressively,
Speaker 1: came in very chesty, but actually took Gerard wo Ere,
Speaker 1: Hargreaves and other six meters towards their own try line.
Speaker 1: But Matty Pete and his coaches would have been happy
Speaker 1: because in theory the root would be controlled, whereas I
Speaker 1: don't see how you can have control if you're bringing
Speaker 1: a defense of further six meters back than they needed
Speaker 1: to go. That doesn't sound like control to me. I
Speaker 1: would rather stop the contact line, try and drive Some.
Speaker 3: Say that again, Yeah, I think I think it's the
Speaker 3: difference of I was going to say, I think it's
Speaker 3: probably the difference of whether you want to slow rock
Speaker 3: as the defending team or where you want to place them,
Speaker 3: and you know where you want to set I guess
Speaker 3: you know, there's different strategies and in trickeries and in
Speaker 3: that point.
Speaker 1: I mean either way. Either way, I don't want to
Speaker 1: encourage players to come towards my trial line. I don't
Speaker 1: want to encourage the opposition towards my trial line. That's
Speaker 1: the whole essence of the game is a territory game.
Speaker 1: So has there been a drawer come out in Super
Speaker 1: League since we last recorded?
Speaker 3: There has been yet. Fixtures have been released and Magic
Speaker 3: Weekends selling quite well. I think they've already sold ten
Speaker 3: thousand tickets and the tickets anyway on South today, so
Speaker 3: that's a.
Speaker 2: Good it's a good eleventh of December.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, Signings, any big signings in the last two weeks.
Speaker 3: There has been a couple uh named McDonald has gone
Speaker 3: to Saint Helens obviously. I think there was a bit
Speaker 3: of interest in London, particularly with Jason Demitri being the
Speaker 3: P and G coach, but he has gone through St
Speaker 3: Helens Eastern Marsters. There is another as for player who's
Speaker 3: gone to Bradford. It looks like Carl Lawton from North
Speaker 3: Queensland has got his release from there and he'll be
Speaker 3: going to WHOLEKR. So you know, a bit of utility
Speaker 3: value there can cover Hooker and Locke and second.
Speaker 1: Row graders from state corps coming.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there has been, Yeah, there's been. I'm sure. I
Speaker 3: think I can't remember the name, but there's there is
Speaker 3: someone going to New York and there was announced today.
Speaker 3: I think his name's Henry Okay, I've never heard of him,
Speaker 3: but he's all going to Toulouse, I think from the Rabbits,
Speaker 3: imagine the Rabbits and he's so Well's Cup team.
Speaker 1: And to be fair to York to lose and Bradford,
Speaker 1: they have not got much option apart from to go
Speaker 1: to the lower leagues in Australia because most players are
Speaker 1: signed up in places. So yeah, I mean that's what
Speaker 1: we shall maybe do is signed Kevin Simfield. He's still
Speaker 1: fit and I think it'd be wrong of us not
Speaker 1: to mention Kevin Simfield's efforts in the last week again
Speaker 1: running marathons.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean he's done an amazing job. It's
Speaker 3: kind of unbelievable what he's done raising money for him
Speaker 3: and d charities and research for what's five years, at
Speaker 3: least four years. I actually went saw him talking a
Speaker 3: special event with his mate Barry McDermott last year and yeah,
Speaker 3: it's amazing what he's, what he's done and how he
Speaker 3: pushes his body to do his limited caday. He's you know,
Speaker 3: he's a much bigger name and done a lot more
Speaker 3: good in his current guys as a as a charity
Speaker 3: fan raiser then than he did playing for Leeds in England.
Speaker 2: Because he coaches in rugby union, well he.
Speaker 3: Is the I think he's the skills coat or skills
Speaker 3: of kicking coach now for the England National Rubian and
Speaker 3: doing a good job. I think that wanceibly like eleven
Speaker 3: or twelve in a row.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very connected, don't you when you work in rugby
Speaker 1: union in certain places. Let's go to Australia. The classless society,
Speaker 1: not that there's no class, just that the class distinctions
Speaker 1: don't exist. Apparently, that's what I keep getting told talking
Speaker 1: of things that never changed. No crickets band on this
Speaker 1: podcast right now. West Tigers are imploding. England cricket team
Speaker 1: are imploding. But West Tigers are imploding too again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean to be fair and I don't want
Speaker 3: to be but to be fair of the England cricket team.
Speaker 3: They're not imploding every season West, they.
Speaker 1: Are to Australia and West poor West after play in
Speaker 1: Australia all the time, so.
Speaker 3: Well that it is a bit of poor West because
Speaker 3: you just I mean you kind of half laughed but
Speaker 3: half to shake your head, because they actually had a
Speaker 3: decent season is year, you know, I think they won
Speaker 3: nine games, they'd signed some really good players. They seemed
Speaker 3: to be turning the corner. Like I know, Shane Richardson,
Speaker 3: it can be, you know, he rubbed some people's noses
Speaker 3: out the wrong way, but I think he's proven as
Speaker 3: the CEO of what he did at South and Penrith.
Speaker 2: It was improving the club. It was improving, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was. I think he's a good administrator.
Speaker 3: And it's just more bullshit to do with Balmain v West,
Speaker 3: you know. And I should have finished in nine nine nine,
Speaker 3: like it's a joint venture. You really got to get
Speaker 3: over it. So I do feel storry. I feel sorry
Speaker 3: for the the West Tigers fans because I can remember
Speaker 3: I still remember the two thousand and five Grand Final.
Speaker 3: What a team, one of the best grown and I
Speaker 3: can remember, as you know, watching as a neutral. I
Speaker 3: actually watched it in Copenhagen, in a bar at about
Speaker 3: three in the morning. But the style of foody that
Speaker 3: that Benji, that Robbie Farrer, that Tim Sheen's team played
Speaker 3: and they were massive underdogs, you know, they were nowhere
Speaker 3: near the best team the comp. But they were so
Speaker 3: great to watch and it was a fairy tale they won.
Speaker 3: And they also I think it was two thousand and
Speaker 3: nine to two and eleven twelve they were in two
Speaker 3: of those years they were one went off for another
Speaker 3: Grand Final, you know when Gareth Ellis was playing for them,
Speaker 3: and Robbie Farrer and Benji and all those players, and
Speaker 3: they were just great to watch. And it's just all
Speaker 3: gone to ship for basically were more than a decade,
Speaker 3: more than a decade now twelve third years, so.
Speaker 2: It's gone too shit.
Speaker 3: What yeah, I mean I can say this as a
Speaker 3: mainly thing because we've basically been going to ship for
Speaker 3: about eight years now. But we have one, you know,
Speaker 3: a comp in every decade there is that.
Speaker 1: Talking of going to ship. Is the Golden Boot that's
Speaker 1: given out to the best international player of the year.
Speaker 1: Is the decision making for that going to ship? Because
Speaker 1: most people seem to think Dylan Brown and his performances
Speaker 1: for New Zealand were deserving of that award. Harry Grant
Speaker 1: was okay in the first test, okay in the se
Speaker 1: very good in the third.
Speaker 3: Nah I would say Harry Grant was good in the first,
Speaker 3: pretty average in the second, and very good in the third.
Speaker 3: But the player in the series went to kem Monster
Speaker 3: and I probably I would have probably had Angus Crichton
Speaker 3: and Hudson Young even arguably just slightly ahead of Harry Grave.
Speaker 3: But the thing about the Golden Boot was for decades
Speaker 3: it was the best player in the world in club
Speaker 3: and internationals, and then whatever it was four or five
Speaker 3: years ago, they changed it to internationals. In some years,
Speaker 3: you know, Australian New Zealand played no internationals. So I
Speaker 3: don't I don't see how you can pick the best
Speaker 3: player in the world each year on the back of
Speaker 3: three games or four games. I think it's absolute nonsense.
Speaker 3: Now I'm saying that Harry Grant had a great year.
Speaker 3: He won Origin for Queensland, he made the Grand Final
Speaker 3: with Melbourne. He was very good for Melbourne, and you know,
Speaker 3: I don't think he probably should have got it, but
Speaker 3: he was up there. I think probably Reyes Walsh or
Speaker 3: paying Hearth, even cam Munster probably, and you mentioned Dylan Brown.
Speaker 3: I know he was fantastic in New Zealand, but he
Speaker 3: was absolutely ship for Paramouna. So you look at the
Speaker 3: you look at the list of people who have won
Speaker 3: the Golden Boots. So you've got Wally Lewis, Gary Schofield,
Speaker 3: Cameron Smith, Andrew John's. You know, it was always off
Speaker 3: the back of the whole year, and I think that's
Speaker 3: just what we need to go back to because it's
Speaker 3: quite stude.
Speaker 2: But otherwise.
Speaker 1: Johnny's jab and Lee's laugh. Now Johnny's jab. You want
Speaker 1: to have a job at the journals? Trying to say
Speaker 1: that Pints wants to have a job at the journals.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was going to change. I was going to
Speaker 3: change that mid mid No, okay, but I'll think that
Speaker 3: I just do to do two jobs. No, well, I
Speaker 3: can say the other one for next week because I'm
Speaker 3: sure it will pop up.
Speaker 2: But no, no, no, I'm so excited. Now.
Speaker 3: It's just just some interviews that you read or you
Speaker 3: listen to with whether it be players or whatever, and
Speaker 3: you just wonder where they're thinking. From the journalist is
Speaker 3: like the questions are just soft they don't ask what
Speaker 3: people really want to know. They just kind of skirt
Speaker 3: over things. And look, I'm not saying you have to,
Speaker 3: you know, be like a sledgehammer. Sometimes you have to
Speaker 3: be subtle and sometimes you have to deal with things delicately,
Speaker 3: but you can't just miss, you know, the truth or
Speaker 3: what people actually want to know. Like I think if
Speaker 3: you do that, you treat your readers or your listeners
Speaker 3: or whoever with contempt because you know they're not stupid.
Speaker 3: So I think, you know, I'm not talking anything specifically,
Speaker 3: whether it be a written article, podcast, the documentary, whatever,
Speaker 3: like you have to sort of approach with a bit
Speaker 3: of integrity and a bit of realism and a bit
Speaker 3: of perspective. And I think a lot of things these
Speaker 3: days you just read them or watch them, you just
Speaker 3: what was the person who made that thinking? And have
Speaker 3: they got any idea how that looks or sounds?
Speaker 1: I always say, John, one of the reasons I have
Speaker 1: had a good coaching career in Australia is because I
Speaker 1: was born and raised in England and a lot of
Speaker 1: the coaching and management ecosystem in England and in Europe
Speaker 1: influenced a lot of the way I coach and I
Speaker 1: came to Australia in my late twenties and brought that
Speaker 1: englishness with me. And so if you like part of
Speaker 1: big you know, if Lee Addison was coaching today, it'd
Speaker 1: be a big chunk Australian, a big chunk English, European
Speaker 1: kind of thing.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: You're you're bringing an Australian childhood and young adulthood to
Speaker 1: your journalism approach because it's quite cut throat in Australia obviously,
Speaker 1: because there's there's more to go for in terms of
Speaker 1: news and reality. That said, even Australian journalists over here,
Speaker 1: because because their legacy media organizations are turning staff away, left,
Speaker 1: right and center and getting rid of staff and reducing
Speaker 1: their numbers, journalists over here seem to have become a
Speaker 1: lot more matey matey because they do need they do
Speaker 1: need the players that they're talking to, don't they. Or
Speaker 1: I remember talking to one journalist who used to be
Speaker 1: on crime and he said he quite often preferred doing
Speaker 1: crime because you could really rip into somebody who's just
Speaker 1: gone away for murder for thirty years, because you don't
Speaker 1: need them again. Whereas if I don't know Melbourne Storm
Speaker 1: players caught snorting cocaine. No offense to Melbourne. Well, you
Speaker 1: can't really go to town on that player because you're
Speaker 1: probably going to need them again in six weeks when
Speaker 1: they play Origin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just i'd add to what I was doing before.
Speaker 3: This isn't an Australia of England or I think you
Speaker 3: see it in media all over the world, and I
Speaker 3: think that's partly because of the way the media has
Speaker 3: changed and exposing the Internet and you know people, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's just more of a self respect integrity thing, Like
Speaker 3: you are right, you do have to be careful to
Speaker 3: us because you do have to deal with people. But
Speaker 3: also you have to, you know, do your job properly
Speaker 3: and you have to, you know, write the truth because
Speaker 3: I think reputation matters. And sometimes you sometimes you fall
Speaker 3: out with people you know that you're right about or
Speaker 3: you know, because you have to criticize them. But that's
Speaker 3: the that's the job, that's the profession. But nowadays it
Speaker 3: just seems to be a lot of are just soft.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we'll just you know, we'll we'll quote that,
Speaker 3: we won't ask any questions, we'll just present it, you know,
Speaker 3: as as the pure spin that it is, and it's just, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's very poor in my eyes. Maybe I'm maybe I'm
Speaker 3: just too old and traditional.
Speaker 2: Well also English.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to bring it back to the
Speaker 1: English Australian thing, English rugby league. Even twenty five years
Speaker 1: ago when I was a media manager, the journalists were
Speaker 1: very matey matey then with people because it's a small
Speaker 1: community and they were under pressure from their sports desks
Speaker 1: and if they didn't get decent content they were going
Speaker 1: to lose their jobs basically, And I think I call
Speaker 1: it a learned laziness. You just learned to survive even
Speaker 1: in the in the environment that you're in. You don't
Speaker 1: necessarily push the envelope. When you do push an envelope,
Speaker 1: you end up with some people falling out with you inevitably,
Speaker 1: you know, if you particularly if you start to write
Speaker 1: or think along some fault lines, and you're gonna have
Speaker 1: some people fall out with you. And some people just
Speaker 1: aren't willing to risk that, are they.
Speaker 3: I can't I can't remember the exact quote who said it,
Speaker 3: but I remember it from university or just after that
Speaker 3: was something like, you know, if if you know you're
Speaker 3: a someding that somewhere somewhere some that someone somewhere doesn't
Speaker 3: like then you know, otherwise it's just advertising.
Speaker 1: So you know, negativity is really accountability, John.
Speaker 3: There's not anything about negativity, you know. It's like with
Speaker 3: the just alfered expos that I've been working. It's not
Speaker 3: about negativity. It's just trying to get to the truth
Speaker 3: in the bottom of what's happening.
Speaker 2: It's not accountability.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's accountability. And it's not about you know, hit
Speaker 3: pieces or trying is playing anyone. It's just to actually
Speaker 3: do report what's truthfully what's happened, because people deserve to know.
Speaker 1: Now, Lee's laugh, they've actually got two, so you're allowed.
Speaker 1: The second one this week.
Speaker 3: Is the first one bass ball, your first laugh.
Speaker 1: It's linked to bassball, So go on, what have you
Speaker 1: got your second job? Are you going to save it?
Speaker 1: I'm too excited.
Speaker 3: I all right.
Speaker 2: Lee's laugh.
Speaker 1: Have got to this week and because the cricket is on.
Speaker 3: All right, you're also to share a cricket.
Speaker 1: You know what gets me about you was you're an
Speaker 1: arrogant set of bastards because you've got short memories too, right,
Speaker 1: what was the score in the last Ashes series after
Speaker 1: to Rember.
Speaker 3: I remember, yeah right, Why not? Well, a number of reasons,
Speaker 3: mostly we're playing in Australia. Secondly, the captain's coming back.
Speaker 1: Thirdly, the captain is the worst captain than the standing captain.
Speaker 1: You mean that one the thing?
Speaker 3: We really need to stop this because we can't say
Speaker 3: a way cricket. But an English person talking about Australia
Speaker 3: against when the England team were coming in, saying this
Speaker 3: is the worst Australian team in fifteen years.
Speaker 2: And it's the worst Australian cricket team in fifteen years.
Speaker 3: What does that say about your team and your cat?
Speaker 1: There's plenty, but we've not got time to discuss it
Speaker 1: now because the cricket is on. It brings me to
Speaker 1: David Boone and his achievements on the plane fifty two
Speaker 1: cans of beer apparently flying Australia to England. I'm sorry
Speaker 1: to burst another Australian bubble, but I actually know for
Speaker 1: a fact that that record was broken not long after
Speaker 1: it except it was never recognized in the Guinness Book
Speaker 1: of Records. It was broken by a formal Wigan player
Speaker 1: called Neil Cowie, who had fifty eight cans coming back
Speaker 1: from the Brisbane Broncos versus Wigan World Club Challenge match
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety four. Martin Hall, the old hooker for Wigan,
Speaker 1: also had a crack at it and apparently pissed his
Speaker 1: pants after forty odd bits. So so they had a
Speaker 1: real good crack at that. So yeah, so that brings
Speaker 1: me to that's my first laugh and it's it's it's
Speaker 1: broad to house a laughing you. So that's where the
Speaker 1: second one is this cross colde bollocks, So the cross
Speaker 1: code game.
Speaker 3: So that's my exclusive on the on the back page
Speaker 3: the other week. Let's let's be careful here.
Speaker 1: Well your article wasn't bollocks but the cross cold thing.
Speaker 1: You can be careful, you don't. You don't run me john,
Speaker 1: as I tried to say to old mate on the
Speaker 1: x cross cold thing. So, having been beaten off Australia's thirdeen,
Speaker 1: the Rugby League is now entertaining the idea of playing
Speaker 1: a circus match against the English rub union team.
Speaker 2: Is that right?
Speaker 3: Well, effectively there's Australian company that's been trying to it's
Speaker 3: had it's held a few hybrid games with what would
Speaker 3: you call, I guess second grade teams in Australia and
Speaker 3: schoolboy teams and they've putting an offer to the RFL
Speaker 3: saying I think it was one point five million pounds.
Speaker 3: You know, would you be interested in playing a hybrid
Speaker 3: game against the England rugby union team. Yeah, that's the
Speaker 3: But I think I think what you're probably forgetting Lee
Speaker 3: is we are in this world. And I'm not saying
Speaker 3: necessarily I agree with it, but we are in this
Speaker 3: world where Jake Paul can fight a former heavyweight champion
Speaker 3: of the world in boxing. It's kind of like me
Speaker 3: getting you know, twelve blokes from down the road to
Speaker 3: go and play against the Bristo Bronco. You know, we
Speaker 3: were in this mad circus world of the influences and
Speaker 3: you know, you know, content creators of football getting you know,
Speaker 3: putting on panels on Sky along with Premier League legends
Speaker 3: like the what the Horse has bolted a long time ago?
Speaker 3: And I think this is you know, related to that.
Speaker 2: It still bollocks.
Speaker 1: Media Watch, Media Watch. I'm giving you the award this week.
Speaker 1: The article about Chris Irwin and the counter claims from
Speaker 1: Curtis and whoever who ran Salford into the ground, and
Speaker 1: then of course the thing that you've dropped today, so
Speaker 1: you get the award this week, John talk to us
Speaker 1: about we've mentioned the article with mister King. Talk about
Speaker 1: the article mister Irwin about a week ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess the talk connected effectively. It
Speaker 3: was an interesting one one I boasted last Friday. People
Speaker 3: can can go and read it.
Speaker 2: It's free read John Stoff pay him.
Speaker 3: One of this one doesn't cost anything. So Chris Irwin
Speaker 3: was made when the new owners came in in February.
Speaker 3: He then I'm self for sorry, Yes he was. Then
Speaker 3: he then resigned or it was announced he resigned in May,
Speaker 3: and I remember hearing at that time it was related
Speaker 3: to that he didn't actually resigned, he was sacked. And
Speaker 3: then it was related to off field behavior with allegations
Speaker 3: around alcohol use at Super Higue games. Now i'd heard
Speaker 3: that from a few people, but obviously they're quite big
Speaker 3: allegations that I couldn't stand up, and you've got to
Speaker 3: be careful as a journalist. You can't just someone told you.
Speaker 3: You can't just write it. I though some people think
Speaker 3: that's what we do. And then more recently I was
Speaker 3: leaked some documents which confirmed the action that the club
Speaker 3: took at that period and which I ran, which a
Speaker 3: few fans accused me because obviously Chris Erwin is involved
Speaker 3: in one of the bids set up a new soccer club.
Speaker 3: I was it was suggested that this was just done
Speaker 3: to damage his bid, but there was nothing to be
Speaker 3: honest of the kind. You know, whoever takes over Sulford.
Speaker 3: I ain't influencing that, and you know it's not got
Speaker 3: anything to do with me. I'm just literally reporting a
Speaker 3: very interesting thorian and I think an important story because
Speaker 3: it is related to the whole mess of what's happened
Speaker 3: at Soulford in the last year and the people involved.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, it's the kind of thing that
Speaker 3: if it happened in the NRL, and you could you know,
Speaker 3: I don't, I've not read all these stories, but you
Speaker 3: know what's happened with Shane Richardson about investigation. Yeah, if
Speaker 3: it happened the NRL, it would be you know, a
Speaker 3: backpage in the Telly L three sixty whatever. But in
Speaker 3: Super League, because there's so few media outlets that just
Speaker 3: kind of get signored or no, they should come.
Speaker 1: Back as a soul for Tigers because there's so many
Speaker 1: similarities and what we made me think of. There was
Speaker 1: the league that came out this week that the West
Speaker 1: Tigers chairman of the Holden Barns group or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: followed two hundred girls in bikinis on Instagram like as
Speaker 1: if that's as if that's a crime.
Speaker 3: I'll give you, I'll give you, I'll give you a
Speaker 3: little exclusive el. So it's my understanding that last year,
Speaker 3: I believe it was last year two former heavyweights for
Speaker 3: West Tigers who were kicked out in terms of the
Speaker 3: former CEO Justin Pasco and a former chairman accout his
Speaker 3: lasting but Lee.
Speaker 2: Palace Lee, Yeah, the.
Speaker 3: Lawyer with the Yeah, they were actually I think they
Speaker 3: were interested in in investing in Salford briefly. So there
Speaker 3: you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: If you want to sponsor this podcast, the Rugby League
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Speaker 1: Network for all the Water I drink, so we have
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Speaker 2: But also podcasts.
Speaker 1: We can even have Johnny's job sponsored by Sulford Tigers
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Speaker 1: email Johnny goes through your contact details again.
Speaker 3: I think hopefully we can get Cleanex as a supporter
Speaker 3: because after the rugby league ashes and the cricket ashes,
Speaker 3: you're you'll be needing.
Speaker 2: It, but you'll need to CLEANX.
Speaker 1: You'll need the cleanex for something else that you'll be
Speaker 1: in all the time at the moment.
Speaker 3: Get me on Exit Johnny Davidson, and you can get
Speaker 3: me on Facebook journalist and also on patre league hub
Speaker 3: dot com. Thank you.
Speaker 1: So, as we did in the last podcast, I'm going
Speaker 1: to tag on my analysis of whatever I decided to
Speaker 1: analyze at the end of this podcast. Now it will
Speaker 1: be an audio thing, but also a video thing on YouTube,
Speaker 1: So if you're listening on Apple or Spotify or any
Speaker 1: of those, the analysis segment is on its own on YouTube,
Speaker 1: and Super League three sixty will also be on its
Speaker 1: own on YouTube. So basically, I'm having a deep look
Speaker 1: into okay are johns as. One of the things I
Speaker 1: noticed was about the tackle technique. I've not gone into
Speaker 1: that in this in this video, but what I did
Speaker 1: notice is in the two big games of the year,
Speaker 1: the Chance Cup Final and the Super League Grand Final.
Speaker 1: Okay I started the game very nervously and very poorly.
Speaker 1: If if the rugby league gods were thinking differently, Wigan
Speaker 1: would have been ten mil twelve Noil up in that
Speaker 1: Grand Final quite easily. And ok I made seven bit
Speaker 1: quite seven errors in the first ten minutes basically so
Speaker 1: the Super League Grandfather the Super League Grand Final they
Speaker 1: managed to get over the top Challenge Cup Final they
Speaker 1: started quite poorly too, and if you remember, there was
Speaker 1: a lot of conjecture about the try that separated the
Speaker 1: two teams. I think ok I played quite nervously in
Speaker 1: that game.
Speaker 3: I was out the game, it was pissing down with
Speaker 3: rain and okay I was very very lucky to win
Speaker 3: that game. Warrington with a better team for ninety nine
Speaker 3: point nine percent of it, but the Warranton winger spilled
Speaker 3: the ball right at the end and I got the win.
Speaker 1: So I'm arguing in this video that if they don't
Speaker 1: sort this out in the first ten minutes, then they
Speaker 1: could be twelve or eighteen nail down to the Brisbane Broncos,
Speaker 1: who were a fantastic attacking side. They do Bristo b
Speaker 1: those to have witnesses in defense. But I'll be unpacking
Speaker 1: this over the coming week, so if you're listening, I
Speaker 1: hope you can get something out of this, but don't forget.
Speaker 1: You can get the full clip on the Rugby League
Speaker 1: Coach YouTube channel and we'll see you in the fortnite
Speaker 1: just before Christmas.
Speaker 2: We'll maybe have our Christmas hats on.
Speaker 1: That's good today, nothing else, just our Christmas hats. We'll
Speaker 1: have our jingle balls out, all right, enjoy the analysis,
Speaker 1: see you later. The Brisbane Broncos travel to Hull in
Speaker 1: the UK in February twenty twenty six to contest the
Speaker 1: World Club Challenge against Hulkingston Rovers normally known as h
Speaker 1: k ARE, the British Rugby League champions. Over the next
Speaker 1: few weeks, I'll be analyzing everything that who k Are
Speaker 1: will bring to fight against Brisbane on that day. My
Speaker 1: name's Lee Addison. I'm the owner of Rugby League Coach.
Speaker 1: Welcome to all those listening and watching on the Super
Speaker 1: League three sixty podcasts and also the Rugby League Coach podcast.
Speaker 1: Every team has phases junger game when they get nervous,
Speaker 1: but uk are tend to do this at the start
Speaker 1: of their big games. So their two biggest games last
Speaker 1: year with a Challenge Cup Final in the middle of
Speaker 1: the year and the Super League Grand Final at the
Speaker 1: end of the year, both which they won quite well.
Speaker 1: Now this has to change if they're going to beat
Speaker 1: the Brisbane Broncos, because the Prison Broncos are going to
Speaker 1: come to England prepared. Mage maguire definitely wants his team
Speaker 1: to win this title, so it's going to be onl
Speaker 1: Like Donkey kongin Hull. Let's have a look what HOKR
Speaker 1: might bring in the opening of this big game. Let
Speaker 1: me share mascreen before we look at the screen recording
Speaker 1: of Hunkingston Rovers or ho k Are in the Super
Speaker 1: League Grand Final. Please allow me to tell you about
Speaker 1: the Coach Mentor Program that I am at Rugby League
Speaker 1: Coach dot com dot a U run. I've coached at
Speaker 1: an ROL club, World Cups and elite high schools in Australia,
Speaker 1: amongst many other things, and I like to pass on
Speaker 1: my experiences to coaches coming through the program themselves. The
Speaker 1: Coach Mentor Program twenty twenty six is our fourth year
Speaker 1: of it. We've had eight Grand Final wins, eleven teams
Speaker 1: were competition runners up, ninety two percent of our teams
Speaker 1: finished in the top four, but every single team improved.
Speaker 1: If you're an individual coach or a club looking for
Speaker 1: something better for your coaches, now is the time to
Speaker 1: get in touch. Please go to Rugby League Coach dot
Speaker 1: combat au. If you're just interested in accessing some online programs,
Speaker 1: please go to Rugby League Coach dot COMBA tear you
Speaker 1: Forward Slash shop to see the different options there for monthly,
Speaker 1: yearly and lifetime plans with no luck in contracts. This
Speaker 1: is ho k Are in the red and white, playing
Speaker 1: against Wigan in the Super League Grand Final of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five. This is the first kickoff. What you will
Speaker 1: notice about who k Are is they do wrap across
Speaker 1: the field when they carry the ball forward. What I
Speaker 1: mean by that is instead of going directly down a channel,
Speaker 1: they are going to work across the field from touch
Speaker 1: line to touch line if you like, or scrum line
Speaker 1: to scrum line. What we've just seen there is a
Speaker 1: block play or an X so they didn't just send
Speaker 1: in a forward straight away or an outside back in
Speaker 1: straight away with no support already. They've done a block
Speaker 1: play and a face ball, which is a ball that
Speaker 1: goes in front of an attacker, a dummy running attacker.
Speaker 1: This is the most conventional hit up they've done on
Speaker 1: their fourth player. I think this is They then bring
Speaker 1: the ball back to the middle and we should soon
Speaker 1: see a kick. You will find a problem in Super
Speaker 1: League that the markers aren't off and square. Now here's
Speaker 1: our first problem with Ho k Are. Like I said,
Speaker 1: markers are very rarely square in the Super League. It's
Speaker 1: just something that's been allowed to slip into the officiating
Speaker 1: at super league level in England. I've been noticing this
Speaker 1: for years. However, KR did not have good kick protection
Speaker 1: for their left footed kicker. Here. As you can see,
Speaker 1: nobody is protecting Mikey Lewis who's received the ball. Now
Speaker 1: he's received the ball from his right so he has
Speaker 1: to transfer it over to his left foot and the
Speaker 1: kick is charged down, which is a really poor start
Speaker 1: for Hu k Are. These are basics and they should
Speaker 1: always be dealt with early in a game. Luckily, for
Speaker 1: who k Are they get the ball back. There's the
Speaker 1: block play. Again, it could have been so different. So
Speaker 1: there's the first warning sign for whole k Are. They
Speaker 1: very similar set to the last one that we saw.
Speaker 1: They are moving the ball across the field. Gradually there's
Speaker 1: another block play there. So block play looks like an
Speaker 1: X to the football educated viewer in that regard, and
Speaker 1: this is designed. This whole set construction is designed to
Speaker 1: work the wig and forwards over. So in this collision
Speaker 1: there may have been a penalty in there, but ultimately
Speaker 1: there wasn't. There may have been hands on the ball,
Speaker 1: but poor ball carriage from the whole KR forward so
Speaker 1: we're gonna have their opportunity hook Are survive. That was
Speaker 1: actually a forward pass quite frankly, and it didn't get noticed.
Speaker 1: So there's three errors already in the first few minutes
Speaker 1: of the game. K Are dealt with what we're going
Speaker 1: through at them and they've got the ball again for
Speaker 1: the next set, again working over the middle of the field.
Speaker 1: They've identified that Wigan might be paul laterally in the
Speaker 1: middle of the field. I don't know if this will
Speaker 1: necessarily work against Brisbane Broncos, who have quite a mobile pack,
Speaker 1: with the exception maybe paying pass defensively. That was an
Speaker 1: OK set from Hoo k Are. Then the next set
Speaker 1: they were asked to come out from their own end
Speaker 1: physically manhandled on the kick return. You need to expect
Speaker 1: that in big games, defenses are going to be tough.
Speaker 1: A block play again, so you can't tell me that
Speaker 1: the Wigan defense isn't starting to read this now, So
Speaker 1: they probably need some more variety on that first play.
Speaker 1: They can't do the block play all the time, but
Speaker 1: here's some variety. Now they go back down the short
Speaker 1: side on the next players. The TV replay was being
Speaker 1: shown at the bottom of the screen. Huo kr lost
Speaker 1: the ball again, so we're still with it. In the
Speaker 1: first ten minutes of this game, ho k Are have
Speaker 1: made what I see as four errors. One of them
Speaker 1: didn't get noticed, which was a forward pass. So now
Speaker 1: we go to some Wigan possession. So they've been building
Speaker 1: pressure in this game. Now the who k Are defense
Speaker 1: deals with this relatively well. I want you to look
Speaker 1: at the right center's defense, who does quite well in
Speaker 1: difficult circumstances. In this next few sets, huk Are put
Speaker 1: a lot of emphasis on being aggressive in defense, so
Speaker 1: they get up very quickly. It's not a straight line,
Speaker 1: so there are opportunities for attacks. Wi can take the
Speaker 1: ball to the middle. Their collisions are quite good. They
Speaker 1: do kill the contact line so they can stop the
Speaker 1: runners quite abruptly, but I think you'll agree with me
Speaker 1: that that defensive line is fast, not necessarily a straight line,
Speaker 1: but that can be worked with. What I do have
Speaker 1: concerns about is the is the defensive spreads on the
Speaker 1: edges if Wigan wanted to have an opportunity to pop
Speaker 1: into there, And of course we're thinking in terms of
Speaker 1: what Brisbane Broncos might do too and what they might bring.
Speaker 1: Now this is going to be interesting because now Bevin
Speaker 1: French for Wigan is getting involved and they shift the ball.
Speaker 1: I want you to watch the right center of whole KR.
Speaker 1: He comes out and you can almost see here on
Speaker 1: this clip that we've got a jagged defensive line and
Speaker 1: he's starting to crouch in his defensive position. What he
Speaker 1: does really well, oh here is back pedals. And you're
Speaker 1: quite often hear commentators criticize defenses for being passive. But
Speaker 1: the whole K right center here readjusts it was amazing
Speaker 1: athleticism and he manages to save the day just but
Speaker 1: it was absolutely amazing from that whole KR center there.
Speaker 1: I'm going to take you through that again because the
Speaker 1: camera doesn't zoom in on the right center for whole
Speaker 1: KR on the top of the screen. As you look
Speaker 1: second defender down, I want you to watch how he
Speaker 1: defends here. So he moves up, he moves up, and
Speaker 1: then he sits and he holds, and then he retreats.
Speaker 1: And then as he's retreating he then readjusts and comes
Speaker 1: forward again. That's amazing athleticism and well readjusted. So Wigan
Speaker 1: are on the charge here. Now this is another warning
Speaker 1: shop for hule k Are because their line speed is
Speaker 1: so big. It does put Wigan under some pressure and
Speaker 1: if they do this to Brisbane, Brisbane will have good
Speaker 1: instincts because of the way they've played football in this
Speaker 1: last year. Now Wigan turned to the kick and from
Speaker 1: that kick it's Wigan who bat the ball down, not
Speaker 1: who k Are. So again another warning sign. Wigan get
Speaker 1: possession and you'd think there'd be a try here, wouldn't you.
Speaker 1: So this is the fifth error in terms of hu
Speaker 1: k Are. But luckily for them, Farrell of Wigan drops
Speaker 1: his lollies and there's no try. The kick the attacking
Speaker 1: kick not fielded well. And then Jared Ruira Hargreaves, who
Speaker 1: are no will not be playing against Brisbane, just did
Speaker 1: a shoulder charge there as he comes in to target
Speaker 1: the ball, so the referee gives a penalty. So ooky,
Speaker 1: I've just given away a penalty. So that's another error
Speaker 1: to add to the list. Another piggyback if you like.
Speaker 1: So ok Are the league leaders were favorites for this game.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, I think weign were actually, but I think
Speaker 1: ok Are really tanted their chances. We've got to kick
Speaker 1: through here and ok I retrieve it and return the
Speaker 1: ball physically manhandled and the ball gets lost another era
Speaker 1: from hook Are. This is all in the first ten
Speaker 1: minutes of the game. And if they start like this
Speaker 1: against Brisbane Broncos, who are going to come to Australia prepared, sorry,
Speaker 1: come from Australia prepared, then it's going to be a
Speaker 1: tough afternoon. They could find themselves twelve or eighteen points
Speaker 1: down very early because of the attacking prowess in the
Speaker 1: Broncos outfit. So we can have yet another set. They've
Speaker 1: dominated field position in this game. Admittedly I've not shown
Speaker 1: you all the game. I've just taken the key moments.
Speaker 1: I just need you to trust me that this is
Speaker 1: how the game panned out. The Wigan attack isn't fantastic
Speaker 1: and isn't necessarily exploiting all the opportunities it has. However,
Speaker 1: Bevern French is putting on some footwork and who kr
Speaker 1: are trying to react to that because they're aggressive. They
Speaker 1: are sometimes leaving their defensive line duties and flying out
Speaker 1: and hoping to settle the score with physicality. The kit
Speaker 1: goes through Bevern French, you think will surely score this
Speaker 1: and he actually didn't put the ball down. We now
Speaker 1: go to the Challenge Cup finals. So this is the
Speaker 1: knockout competition in England and this is the start of
Speaker 1: the Challenge Cup Final where many viewers and observers felt
Speaker 1: that Ho k Are were lucky to win with a
Speaker 1: controversial try at the end. Remember I talked to you
Speaker 1: about who k are wrapping their sets across the field
Speaker 1: when they start and something else I want to look
Speaker 1: at too. Have you noticed how often some of the
Speaker 1: runners from jo k Are that to returning the football
Speaker 1: get manhandled. So Broncos have a great chance to do
Speaker 1: this if they kick well, which I'm sure they will.
Speaker 1: So remember last time uk Are started with a block play.
Speaker 1: They've just done that again and they worked across the
Speaker 1: field against Wigan. Well now they're playing against Warrington block
Speaker 1: play faceball, it's exactly the same. So Brisbane can prepare
Speaker 1: for this, I think, and they can defend it accordingly.
Speaker 1: The benefits of moving a defense across like this is
Speaker 1: that you're moving defenders up across and back and if
Speaker 1: you were to attack back at them in theory, some
Speaker 1: of them might not defend the football very well, but
Speaker 1: there's opportunities glore if you know what's coming each week
Speaker 1: and in the big games. Hulk Are have come up
Speaker 1: with the same strategy of exit at the start of
Speaker 1: both games. And then the Mikey Lewis left foot kick.
Speaker 1: We're now going to see hu k Are returning the
Speaker 1: football and again great kickchase that puts pressure on the
Speaker 1: full back and hook are are now carrying the ball
Speaker 1: back out. This was a game they only won eight
Speaker 1: to six from memory, and they are getting physically manhandled
Speaker 1: at the start of it, and I think this is
Speaker 1: a It is something that Brisbane Broncos might pursue. A
Speaker 1: little bit later in the game, Jared Wiger had where
Speaker 1: here a Hargreaves with a head high shot. Now again
Speaker 1: I know he won't be playing, but again, why was
Speaker 1: this not dealt with why why was this still in
Speaker 1: his game at this point of the season. A bit later,
Speaker 1: u k Are trying to shift the ball a lucky
Speaker 1: to get away with that one which looked like a
Speaker 1: knock on. So there's definitely problems the way hu k
Speaker 1: R start these big games. Kickchase led to a penalty
Speaker 1: for a head high shot. Again, their physical defensive style
Speaker 1: doesn't leave much room for error and it can cause penalties.
Speaker 1: There's this Markers not being square again, a kick through
Speaker 1: from the Warrington half and k Are have to return
Speaker 1: the kick.
Speaker 2: These are all very early in the.
Speaker 1: Game and once again a player man handled the ball
Speaker 1: comes loose. So I think you'll notice there that hulk
Speaker 1: Are looked a little bit rusty, quite frankly at the
Speaker 1: start of both of those games. And there are many
Speaker 1: things that influence a game of rugby league, and quite
Speaker 1: often the first ten minutes can be a huge, huge barometer.
Speaker 1: And of course Jared were Hargreaves, who played so well
Speaker 1: in the Super Leader Grand Final, won't be there this time.
Speaker 1: So things that Willie Peters, coach of huk Are, has
Speaker 1: to address before the World Club Challenge game keep in touch.
Speaker 1: Every week there will be video analysis each week to
Speaker 1: help you through the Christmas break.
Speaker 2: Take care