WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>I am going to die. At some point, I will

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<v Speaker 1>take my last drink, I will eat my last food,

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<v Speaker 1>I will stare at my last sunset. In twenty years,

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<v Speaker 1>very few people will remember me. In fifty years, I

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<v Speaker 1>will probably be a distant memory. There are human beings

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<v Speaker 1>who've been alive. I have no knowledge of whatsoever. The

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<v Speaker 1>vast majority of humanity who is to come will have

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<v Speaker 1>no knowledge of me. Do you know what. I'm absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>fine with that. I have no fear about it, I

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<v Speaker 1>have no existential dread about it. I accept it. But

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<v Speaker 1>I'm really interested in those people who don't. I'm interested

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<v Speaker 1>in those people who believe that there is an eternal afterlife.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm interested in those people who think they'll be going

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<v Speaker 1>to heaven to kiss God's toes and make him a

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<v Speaker 1>very happy man. I'm interested in those people who think

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<v Speaker 1>that they will be reborn again and again and again

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<v Speaker 1>in some endless cycle until enlightenment is eventually achieved in

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<v Speaker 1>a release from that rebirth comes. If you are one

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<v Speaker 1>of these people who thinks that there is utility in

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<v Speaker 1>believing in an eternal you, please give us a call,

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<v Speaker 1>because the show is about to begin. Welcome, Welcome, Hello, everybody,

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<v Speaker 1>Today is November the seventeenth, twenty twenty four. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Richard Gilliver. I'm joining me today. It's a very very

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<v Speaker 1>wonderful Godless engineer. How are you, Godless Engineer.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I'm doing great. I'm excited to be here, excited

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<v Speaker 2>to take calls today, and just in general just doing great.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm looking forward to this one. I've just done

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<v Speaker 1>the pre show TikTok, and I was encouraging people to

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<v Speaker 1>call from there, and it's very rare that we get

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<v Speaker 1>two people on the show who were kind of soting

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<v Speaker 1>to the scholarship of religion. So, and we're coming from

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<v Speaker 1>different angles. You know, my background's in Buddies, I hav

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<v Speaker 1>at a little Christianity a little bit, and Islam a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit. John, you're more in the Christian end of things.

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<v Speaker 1>But it really gives people a great perspective if you

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<v Speaker 1>are a believer in the afterlife, or if you're a

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<v Speaker 1>religious person from any tradition and you really are convinced

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<v Speaker 1>and you think the scholarship is convincing for your position,

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<v Speaker 1>today is the day you need to call and give

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<v Speaker 1>us a call, because you know you are talking to

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<v Speaker 1>the two people here who are really really on the

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<v Speaker 1>same wave length as you. So are are you excited

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<v Speaker 1>about this.

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<v Speaker 2>John, Oh, definitely. I'm always excited to interact with people

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<v Speaker 2>like you know about the stuff I think about, I guess,

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<v Speaker 2>especially when it comes to like religious scholarship and scholarship

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<v Speaker 2>on like Christian origins and things of that nature. I know,

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<v Speaker 2>the chat pol is actually on slavery, which is another

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<v Speaker 2>interesting aspect because that plays a lot into the scholarship

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<v Speaker 2>concerning Christianity and like how we interpret it, like the

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<v Speaker 2>scriptures and all this other stuff, and so like there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of different I guess avenues that we could

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<v Speaker 2>go down on that particular topic.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's going to be a very interesting one, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>And we've already got calls queuing up, which is always exciting.

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<v Speaker 1>It's great to have those calls coming early so we

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<v Speaker 1>can give those callers the time they deserve when they're

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<v Speaker 1>calling into the show. But let's get let's get the

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<v Speaker 1>legal stuff out of the way first. TOKI then, is

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<v Speaker 1>a product of the Earthist Community of Austin, a five

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<v Speaker 1>h one c three nonprofit organization which is dedicated to

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<v Speaker 1>the promotion of atheism, critical thinking, secular humanism and the

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<v Speaker 1>separation the separation of religion and government at Tolkiden is

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<v Speaker 1>a live calling show and we have open lines, so

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<v Speaker 1>get your calls in at five one two nine nine

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<v Speaker 1>two four to two or from your computer at tiny

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<v Speaker 1>dot c c slash call th and as I said,

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<v Speaker 1>those phone lines are filling up. So if you do

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk to us, if you want to get

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<v Speaker 1>in on this show where you've got myself and John

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<v Speaker 1>hosting together, really now is the time to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Get your call in quickly so we can give you

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<v Speaker 1>the time that you deserve. Before we take calls. We

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<v Speaker 1>do our weekly segment talk Heathen to me which and

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<v Speaker 1>last week we asked you it was a petty move

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<v Speaker 1>when God blank And here are our top three answers.

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<v Speaker 1>Number three, Colin Mattz, it was a petty move when

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<v Speaker 1>God psyched Abraham. John, what do you think of that one?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's honestly an interesting story and has a funny

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<v Speaker 2>little mirror, you know, in the Newer Testament. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>definitely a funny prank right there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, this is a strong prank. I think maybe

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<v Speaker 1>a strong word for that really bad abuse. Maybe another

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<v Speaker 1>way of phrasing it. Miranda Rensburg says, creating an entire

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<v Speaker 1>universe just because you want to be worshiped is pete

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<v Speaker 1>as fuck. I absolutely agree, John.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, I've got an insulin pod problem that's happening to

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<v Speaker 2>me right now. It's causing a loud beep. But yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I think the creating entire universe just because you want

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<v Speaker 2>to be worshiped is pretty petty.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Number one is x million who says it was

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<v Speaker 1>pretty It was pete for God to demand for skin

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<v Speaker 1>sacrifice the things that Christians have done around that, John,

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<v Speaker 1>from your perspective, because I've got some call stuff to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about on there, but for skin sacrifice, yeah only, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely do not vote for that particular thing at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Nope, there were some if you have a look at

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<v Speaker 1>particularly medieval history, there were lots of stories of Jesus

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<v Speaker 1>foreskins in history. And I say for skins because there

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<v Speaker 1>would be numerous ones claimed to be the fal skins

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<v Speaker 1>throughout history. There was one particularly one particular lady saint

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<v Speaker 1>in the Christian tradition whose name I forget off the

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<v Speaker 1>top of my head, but she had a penchant for

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<v Speaker 1>sucking on these foreskins. I don't know whether she thought

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<v Speaker 1>it would give her some kind of magical Jesus power

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<v Speaker 1>or what they Go and look them. Go and look

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<v Speaker 1>the four skins stories over. You might want to be

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<v Speaker 1>careful how you phrase it when you're doing the Google

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<v Speaker 1>search for that, but go and look up those four

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<v Speaker 1>skins stories from the Middle Ages. There were some huntingers

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<v Speaker 1>out there. There really really are.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, I was just going to say, there are some

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<v Speaker 2>really crazy foreskin stories, like going up through history, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>to the point where people actually thought that they had

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<v Speaker 2>that they had the foreskin of Jesus that they used

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<v Speaker 2>as a ring, if I remember correctly. When my wife

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<v Speaker 2>and I took a trip out to Italy last year,

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<v Speaker 2>she looked up some interesting history and there was actually

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<v Speaker 2>a rumor of one person actually using Jesus's four skin

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<v Speaker 2>as a ring. So that was quite interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>As I said, though, there are many many of Jesus'

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<v Speaker 1>four skins throughout history. I don't know whether maybe there

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<v Speaker 1>were just three. Maybe he's got three raving the Trinity.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe I don't know. Go and have it. We'll come

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<v Speaker 1>talking shit now. The front for next week is without

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<v Speaker 1>lying market the Bible to drive sales and see your

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<v Speaker 1>best answer below the video in the comments, and next

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<v Speaker 1>week we will reveal the top three answers. But of

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<v Speaker 1>course we don't let the guest get off scot free

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<v Speaker 1>as usual, So I'm going to ask the co host,

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<v Speaker 1>without lying market the Bible to drive sales, do you

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<v Speaker 1>have an answer for that one?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, I'm so sorry.

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<v Speaker 1>I do.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually I wrote it down, so one second. Okay, so

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<v Speaker 2>without lying market the Bible. So listen, do you want

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<v Speaker 2>a DIY morality handbook? I'm sure that you do. I

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<v Speaker 2>know that I do, And so you can pick and

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<v Speaker 2>choose your ethics as long as you get this magical

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<v Speaker 2>book called the Bible. You can love your neighbor or

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<v Speaker 2>you can stone them to death for like, literally no

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<v Speaker 2>reason at all. It's all in there. You can customize

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<v Speaker 2>your values based on your mood or your political affiliation.

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<v Speaker 2>Either one. Get the Bible today.

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<v Speaker 1>That's great that you know what I think? After that,

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<v Speaker 1>we should have a Bible in every classroom.

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<v Speaker 2>Jokes jokes storm right, Ryan Walters here in Oklahoma is

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<v Speaker 2>not taking that lightly. Okay, He's going to force you

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<v Speaker 2>to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was great, Thanks for that. So we do

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<v Speaker 1>we don't do this on our own. Of course, we

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<v Speaker 1>have a great team behind us, so wonderful, wonderful, wonderful

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<v Speaker 1>people mostly not mentioning any names.

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<v Speaker 3>Greg.

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<v Speaker 1>So there we go. Look at those lovely, lovely people.

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<v Speaker 1>They're the ones who make it happen that we just

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<v Speaker 1>turn up here and talk shit. I'm gonna lie, that's

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<v Speaker 1>all we do. We have. I'm looking forward to the

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<v Speaker 1>calls today. I'm looking forward to working with Godless Engineer.

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<v Speaker 1>I am pumped. And I also got to meet Jamie

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<v Speaker 1>the Blind Limey in real life last week. He came

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<v Speaker 1>over and we had a few drinks and a meal together.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, I'm on a talk Keith and high

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<v Speaker 1>I really really am. I love this show. I loved

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<v Speaker 1>doing this show, and you know, I think it's time

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<v Speaker 1>we got in to those calls. We have Matt from

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<v Speaker 1>Illinois who is a church organist and wants to know

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<v Speaker 1>how to talk to a pastor about their response to

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<v Speaker 1>the threat of Christian nationalism. Matt, Hello, thanks for calling

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<v Speaker 1>the show.

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<v Speaker 5>Hi Richard, nice to talk to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you. Hy. Let's let's get into it. You want

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<v Speaker 1>to know how to talk to your pastor about their

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<v Speaker 1>response to the threat of Christian nationalism. Give us an

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<v Speaker 1>outline of kind of what you're thinking. I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>let godless engineer jump because I'm sure he's got more

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<v Speaker 1>of a ball in this game than I have been

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<v Speaker 1>over there with you, and let's let's see where it goes.

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<v Speaker 5>Excellent.

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<v Speaker 4>So, yes, I have been a lifelong atheist basically, and

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<v Speaker 4>I've been a church organist sort of just due to

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<v Speaker 4>a set of circumstances where I took a job a

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<v Speaker 4>couple of years ago, about two years ago, and I

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<v Speaker 4>can tell you guys that that I have been offsetting

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<v Speaker 4>the sort of mixed feelings I have about doing the

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<v Speaker 4>job to begin with, by listening to talk Ethan on

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<v Speaker 4>my trips to and from work when I do that.

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<v Speaker 4>So I've appreciated that, but I've I've just felt that lately,

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<v Speaker 4>especially in the last couple of weeks, as I pay

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<v Speaker 4>attention to sermons, I feel like there's just this is

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<v Speaker 4>a Lutheran e LCA Lutheran church, and they're very nice people.

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<v Speaker 5>I really really adore them.

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<v Speaker 4>And it's it's more of a sort of a community

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<v Speaker 4>thing then it is a hyper religious organization. But in

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<v Speaker 4>light of events of the last year or so, it

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<v Speaker 4>just seems like this very very nice pastor has to

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<v Speaker 4>play this sort of oh, there's good people on both

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<v Speaker 4>sides type of an argument when world events are going

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<v Speaker 4>on and I think I've calmed down since since a

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<v Speaker 4>week ago, but you know, in these last couple of

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<v Speaker 4>weeks or just things I see in the in the

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<v Speaker 4>sermons today was talking about a apocalyptic preaching and had

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<v Speaker 4>a similar kind of vent to it of speaking like, hey,

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<v Speaker 4>this is all a bunch of nonsense that people have.

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<v Speaker 4>Some people think this, people have thought this for years,

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<v Speaker 4>kind of debunking it, and then at the same time

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<v Speaker 4>using that as a springboard to then talk about how

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<v Speaker 4>much God loves us. So that's kind of where I'm at.

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<v Speaker 4>It's not the biggest emergency. You know, I'm not going

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<v Speaker 4>to quit tomorrow. I do like these people quite a bit,

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<v Speaker 4>but at the same time, I feel like it weighs

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<v Speaker 4>on me. I kinn't want to just ambush anybody out

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<v Speaker 4>of nowhere if I were to have a conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, so what are you are you specifically asking like,

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<v Speaker 2>how do you how do you talk about like the

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<v Speaker 2>Christian nationalists feel that you have without like causing some

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like massive emotional reaction from anybody that you're

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<v Speaker 2>talking to, is that is that what you're asking?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, or myself included. I don't want to go into

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<v Speaker 4>I don't want to just come out to people in

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<v Speaker 4>this in this community and put and and kind of

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<v Speaker 4>put them in that position. I'm not that confrontational a person,

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<v Speaker 4>but I kind of am concerned that if I broach

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<v Speaker 4>the subject at all and kind of say, hey, live

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<v Speaker 4>you know, where do I Where would I start? You know,

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<v Speaker 4>because I could easily start with just any number of

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<v Speaker 4>things that really irked me about Christianity to begin with.

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<v Speaker 4>But I don't accept and I don't want to. I

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<v Speaker 4>don't want to put anyone in a position where they

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<v Speaker 4>feel like they need to legitimately convert me either, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, it's kind of context dependent, like

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<v Speaker 2>whatever is being talked about, Like if somebody's saying, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 2>there's you know, good people on both sides or whatnot,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, typically how I address it is like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe that can be true. But I mean the two

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<v Speaker 2>sides that we're talking about here are like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>one is you know, seeking to make sure that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>everybody has equal treatment under the law. They're seeking to

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<v Speaker 2>make sure that people are taking care of you know

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<v Speaker 2>when they can't necessarily do it for themselves, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>and alleviating a lot of the financial ills of the

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<v Speaker 2>lower middle class. And then the other side just wants

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<v Speaker 2>to milk the working class and the lower class for

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<v Speaker 2>all that their work. They're wanting to destroy the economy

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<v Speaker 2>and all this other stuff. And that's even on top

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<v Speaker 2>of all the social issues that this side has and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, persecuting minorities and all this stuff. So I mean, like, sure,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe there's good people on both sides, but the topics

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<v Speaker 2>that we're actually talking about here are not like a

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<v Speaker 2>both sides kind of issue. Like it's it's a very

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<v Speaker 2>clear decision between both sides. And I would think that

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<v Speaker 2>if you're truly wanting to embody what most people think

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<v Speaker 2>of as the Christian ethics I guess, or the Christian

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<v Speaker 2>way of life, I feel like you would want to

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<v Speaker 2>err on the side of the non conservatives. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>there are several different passages you could think of in

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<v Speaker 2>the Gospels alone that portray Jesus as this woke person

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't care about like monetary value of things in

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<v Speaker 2>their life, and they care Jesus cares way more about

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<v Speaker 2>providing you know, social safety nets for the lower and

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<v Speaker 2>middle class people, while at the same time not like

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<v Speaker 2>bucking your responsibilities to like pay your taxes and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like it's it's Christian nationalism at its heart,

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<v Speaker 2>seeks to twist what people have become to associate as

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<v Speaker 2>the Christian narrative. They're twisting it into this whole conservative

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<v Speaker 2>type of mindset, thereby weaponizing their religion and against them

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<v Speaker 2>to make them understand like that kind of rhetoric as

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<v Speaker 2>being purely like basically being a conservative Jesus when in reality, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you could easily portray Jesus as being like one of

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<v Speaker 2>those woke leftists. It's just it's really kind of weird,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's very contextually sensitive as far as like what

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<v Speaker 2>you're wanting to talk about, So like, uh, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe if you could give me like one or two

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<v Speaker 2>more topics that you feel like you want to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about with you know, people in your congregation or people

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<v Speaker 2>in your life in general, and I can tell you

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<v Speaker 2>how I might tackle it, but that would purely just

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<v Speaker 2>be like how I would handle those conversations.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think the thing that keeps coming back to

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<v Speaker 4>me in my head when I envisioned this conversation happening.

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<v Speaker 4>Is just that it that that that I would start

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<v Speaker 4>a sentence with how do I reconcile and then length,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, and that if that these are almost fantasy

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<v Speaker 4>conversations that I that I have because I guess and

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<v Speaker 4>this is the the maybe the thing I'm realizing as

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<v Speaker 4>we're talking is that, you know, it's there is a

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<v Speaker 4>fear of sort of uttering myself, and I feel like

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<v Speaker 4>there's like I I increasingly I'm the one who is

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<v Speaker 4>very acutely aware that that I see myself as sort

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<v Speaker 4>of apart from a congregation. And and I guess that

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<v Speaker 4>that makes me feel shy about asking any questions about

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<v Speaker 4>theology because I'm going to expose myself in some way too.

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<v Speaker 5>So yeah, yeah, that.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I'm sorry. You go ahead, Richard.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was just going to say that that can

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<v Speaker 1>be quite difficult a position to be in. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I've been in the position where I've been a guest

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<v Speaker 1>at mosques, at churches, Buddhist monasteries, and and you have this,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I host this show, and I've been doing

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<v Speaker 1>this ship for decades and decades, and I have always

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of urge to go out and challenge these

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<v Speaker 1>people head on and might really grab them and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>shape them by the collar and say, you know, let's

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<v Speaker 1>have this conversation. You can't always do that. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>always appropriate to do that. And I think if you're

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<v Speaker 1>friends with these people, you take it, as John said,

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<v Speaker 1>on an individual basis, how these conversations run. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think making yourself available is a really good way to

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<v Speaker 1>do that, you know, to say, you know, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily agree with you on all this stuff. If you

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<v Speaker 1>ever want to have that discussion, my door is open,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, come to me, and you know, I'm more

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<v Speaker 1>than happy to talk about that with you. I think

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<v Speaker 1>one thing we should avoid doing, and you know this

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<v Speaker 1>is me speaking from experience in those kinds of situation

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<v Speaker 1>is putting yourself forward as kind of not necessarily aggressive,

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<v Speaker 1>but as being pushy to try and say, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>why do you believe this, why do you believe that,

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about it. Let's you know, that's not necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>the best way of going about having these conversations. When

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<v Speaker 1>you're doing it with your friends, you're doing it with

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<v Speaker 1>your peers, you're doing it in an environment that you

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<v Speaker 1>enjoy being in. You know, you want to keep those relationships,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, open. I've just read literally and I have.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not making this up. I was just saying before

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<v Speaker 1>the show to Kelly, who's back up host and Godless engineer.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in a band. I'm in a jazz band, Jets,

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<v Speaker 1>and the drummer in that band I've found out this week. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I found out this week that the drummer for that

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<v Speaker 1>band is a very new band. We've only met a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of times, and it transpires that the drummer actually

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<v Speaker 1>trains priests to be priests. And we had a brief

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<v Speaker 1>conversation about you know, you know, just different aspects of things.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing too heavy, you know, just saying, you know, our

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<v Speaker 1>talk we're talking mostly about religious scholarship. And you know

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<v Speaker 1>that has opened the door now for any future con

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<v Speaker 1>sas that guy wants to have. He knows I'm interested

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<v Speaker 1>in the subject. He knows that if he raises it,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm happy to talk about it. And where that goes

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<v Speaker 1>in the future, we don't know it will be. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>what transpires will transpire from that. But the door is open,

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<v Speaker 1>and it you know, I didn't approach him. I was,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I was just saying that I had not

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<v Speaker 1>learned I've been lazy. I've not learned a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>songs because i'd actually been writing a paper about religious scholarship.

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<v Speaker 1>And I just said, off the cuff, you know, I've

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<v Speaker 1>not learned this song because I've been writing this paper.

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<v Speaker 1>He said, Oh, that's very interesting. My job is training priests.

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<v Speaker 1>It was as simple as that. But it has opened

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<v Speaker 1>the door for kind of future dialogue. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's the way for me. That's the way. That's always

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<v Speaker 1>been the best approach. Just be open, not force it

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<v Speaker 1>on anyone. Let people understand that you are there and

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<v Speaker 1>you are interested if they want to have those conversations.

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<v Speaker 1>But don't don't jump down the throats because inevitably, if

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<v Speaker 1>you jump down someone's throat with it, they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>back off and the not going to want to talk

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<v Speaker 1>to you, especially and in that environment when you're there

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<v Speaker 1>week after week and you're talking to them consistently, it

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<v Speaker 1>can cause problems for really wider relationships as well. So

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<v Speaker 1>i'd be very cautious about that.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I agree, I think this, Uh, you know, this

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<v Speaker 4>is coming from a lot of a lot of time

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<v Speaker 4>lately being out feeling outnumbered, and uh, and I think

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<v Speaker 4>I needed to to call some atheists and and talk

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<v Speaker 4>about to not just have the the turning wheels of

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<v Speaker 4>my of my brain going about it, because I do.

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<v Speaker 4>I do feel like I've been pure enough in my

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<v Speaker 4>atheism for long enough that it actually, aside from the

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<v Speaker 4>many ways that I that it makes me angry in

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<v Speaker 4>reality in real one on one conversations, it's it's not

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<v Speaker 4>something that I can't whether if it's if it's you know,

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<v Speaker 4>launched at me. And also I don't need to be

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<v Speaker 4>aggressive with it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wouldn't suggest being aggressive with it. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think that, you know, there's also the fact that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>when we started the show, I had to provide you

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<v Speaker 2>know that that that sort of selling the Bible without

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<v Speaker 2>lying about it. And I mean I was genuine when

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<v Speaker 2>I said that you could do like a di y

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<v Speaker 2>sort of ethics, you know foundation you know, using the Bible.

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<v Speaker 2>You can literally justify any position that you want to

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<v Speaker 2>using the Bible in various ways. So like if you

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to ease into the conversation, like for instance, if

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<v Speaker 2>somebody's talking about, you know, being pro choice or or

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<v Speaker 2>being pro life or whatnot, and you wanted to bring

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<v Speaker 2>up scriptures in the Bible. There's actually more scriptures in

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<v Speaker 2>the Bible that support life beginning at first breath rather

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<v Speaker 2>than at conception. And you actually have to sort of

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<v Speaker 2>priss the Bible's words about, you know, certain verses about

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<v Speaker 2>you know, God knowing somebody at the moment of conception

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<v Speaker 2>and all this other stuff, when in actuality, at every point,

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<v Speaker 2>life is not acknowledged until the breath of life has

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<v Speaker 2>entered into you, and that is something that's given by God.

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<v Speaker 2>And so like, you could go that route talking about

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<v Speaker 2>those particular topics with the social safety nets topics. You

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<v Speaker 2>could also go the route, you know, using the Gospels

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<v Speaker 2>and the social safety nets. You could talk about how,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Jesus was there to provide for the lower

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<v Speaker 2>middle income families and he regularly spoke against the richest

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<v Speaker 2>one percent, and you know how they valued money and

404
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<v Speaker 2>all this other stuff. You could bring up that whole

405
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<v Speaker 2>camel through the or I cameled through the eye of

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<v Speaker 2>a needle sort of thing. There's that on like on

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<v Speaker 2>the diversity of genders that we understand now about human sexuality.

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<v Speaker 2>There's this one verse I believe it's maybe Matthew nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>or something. It's in one of the gospels where Jesus

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<v Speaker 2>and his burros are compared to eunuchs, and Jesus speaks

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<v Speaker 2>favorably about unix and like, you know, speaks favorably about

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<v Speaker 2>abstinence and all this other stuff. And you know, you

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<v Speaker 2>could definitely use that as an argument for the LGBTQ

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<v Speaker 2>plus community because of how unis were treated at that time.

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<v Speaker 2>They were, you know, well regarded at that point in time,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were also not as gender binary, like they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't strictly adhere to a gender binary and Jesus seemed

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<v Speaker 2>to be pretty fine with them. So, like, for a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of these social issues that you're talking about, you

420
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:34.079
<v Speaker 2>can definitely find scriptural verses that you can bring to

421
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:36.599
<v Speaker 2>the table and at least get them to think along

422
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:39.720
<v Speaker 2>the lines that they are willing to accept as opposed

423
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:43.400
<v Speaker 2>to like directly coming out and challenging like why should

424
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.240
<v Speaker 2>we believe in this you know, nearly two thousand year

425
00:23:46.279 --> 00:23:50.119
<v Speaker 2>old book that you know has chattel slavery and sexual

426
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:54.160
<v Speaker 2>slavery and all these other different things that it endorses

427
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:57.759
<v Speaker 2>and has God endorsing, and that we shouldn't necessarily you know,

428
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:01.279
<v Speaker 2>take as good moral a good world foundation to build upon.

429
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.680
<v Speaker 2>So I mean, like you, there's definitely ways in which

430
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:08.119
<v Speaker 2>you can attack it without directly offending their sensibilities.

431
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:11.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that makes sense. I think I think I have

432
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:14.920
<v Speaker 4>I certainly have things to h to offer, you know,

433
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:20.079
<v Speaker 4>kind of conversationally without without ever even even going there.

434
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:22.440
<v Speaker 4>I think I'm I think I'm just really acutely aware of.

435
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:23.359
<v Speaker 5>My inner monologue.

436
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:27.200
<v Speaker 4>Uh, and I you know, feel feel that that that

437
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.559
<v Speaker 4>little fear of being exposed, even though that's not much

438
00:24:30.559 --> 00:24:31.079
<v Speaker 4>of a threat.

439
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:31.680
<v Speaker 5>They're very good.

440
00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:34.440
<v Speaker 1>That's really there's there's not not nothing wrong with having

441
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:39.319
<v Speaker 1>in a monologue. I defy anybody who listens to these calls.

442
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.039
<v Speaker 1>And I know this because I've done this before I

443
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:44.359
<v Speaker 1>was a host, and then I've been hosting these things forever.

444
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:46.200
<v Speaker 1>But before I was a host, I used to do

445
00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:49.119
<v Speaker 1>this as well. You listen to the shows and you

446
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:52.799
<v Speaker 1>sit there and you say, you know, you answer the questions.

447
00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:56.440
<v Speaker 1>And Kelly's doing it right now as a backup host.

448
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:59.839
<v Speaker 1>I can guarantee you he's listening to these conversations and

449
00:24:59.880 --> 00:25:02.960
<v Speaker 1>he he's answering the questions in his mind as though

450
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:07.079
<v Speaker 1>he's actually having the conversation saying this is how I

451
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:10.200
<v Speaker 1>would respond to this. And you know, I read the

452
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:13.759
<v Speaker 1>comments every week because I'm sad. I read the YouTube

453
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:16.599
<v Speaker 1>comments every week, and every week we get people saying, well,

454
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:18.880
<v Speaker 1>the host should have said this, the host should have

455
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:21.680
<v Speaker 1>said that, and like, you know, when you're a fucking host,

456
00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:24.000
<v Speaker 1>you can say what you want. Mate. But at the minute,

457
00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:26.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm in this chair and John's in this chair, so

458
00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:28.839
<v Speaker 1>we're going to say what we're saying. And you know,

459
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:32.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, Foisier displeasure with it in the cap and

460
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.079
<v Speaker 1>the fucking comments, so I can just ignore you anyway.

461
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:36.359
<v Speaker 6>Anyway.

462
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:41.880
<v Speaker 1>I think just one last quick thing I would also

463
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:45.960
<v Speaker 1>maybe consider doing is when these you know, if they're

464
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.599
<v Speaker 1>having conversations and they're touching on subjects that you think

465
00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:54.119
<v Speaker 1>might not necessarily you might not necessarily be comfortable to

466
00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:57.519
<v Speaker 1>talking about, it might be worth just having a look

467
00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:01.440
<v Speaker 1>and seeing what other Christians think about this and saying, well,

468
00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:03.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, there are other Christians who disagree with you

469
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:06.799
<v Speaker 1>on this subject. May I recommend you look at such

470
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.839
<v Speaker 1>and such and because they have a different opinion to

471
00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:12.400
<v Speaker 1>you on this, and that might give them, you know,

472
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:17.559
<v Speaker 1>open their eyes that this isn't a Christian versus atheist

473
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:21.519
<v Speaker 1>kind of discussion. This is a wider discussion where people

474
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:26.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, even within their own faith, have different opinions

475
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:29.559
<v Speaker 1>to them. So it might open their eyes that, you know,

476
00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:31.400
<v Speaker 1>it might not be you don't have to be a

477
00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:34.799
<v Speaker 1>Christian and be conservative or an atheist and be liberal.

478
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Thinks the world isn't simply that black and white. There

479
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:41.680
<v Speaker 1>are lots of different spectrums on both sides of the argument.

480
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:44.119
<v Speaker 1>So maybe point them in the direction of people on

481
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:47.200
<v Speaker 1>their own side of the wall who disagree with them,

482
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.079
<v Speaker 1>and kind of say and go and have a look

483
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.519
<v Speaker 1>at what this person thinks, you know, have a think

484
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:53.519
<v Speaker 1>about it, and come back and let's have a conversation

485
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:57.079
<v Speaker 1>about that about the differences of opinion within Christianity.

486
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:00.960
<v Speaker 4>Sorry, go on, please, Yeah, I would say overwhelming that

487
00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:05.559
<v Speaker 4>my my read of of everyone seems to be something

488
00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:08.680
<v Speaker 4>of of Wow, these are people who are all still

489
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:11.440
<v Speaker 4>learning quite a bit about you know that, and that

490
00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:14.400
<v Speaker 4>maybe that's some some of where my in trepidation comes, right,

491
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:17.799
<v Speaker 4>because I can overhear conversations and and certain things that

492
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:20.079
<v Speaker 4>people say where I'm likeing and and and there, and

493
00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:22.920
<v Speaker 4>then my judgment comes in where I'm like, oh, if

494
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:26.000
<v Speaker 4>I know that, if I know who wrote the Gospels

495
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:28.240
<v Speaker 4>or didn't write the Gospels, then you know. But but

496
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:32.400
<v Speaker 4>I can I can accept that for being something that's

497
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:34.680
<v Speaker 4>that it could be far worse. There could be far

498
00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:37.240
<v Speaker 4>more dogmatic views that I'm that I'm hearing. These are

499
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:40.279
<v Speaker 4>just things that people are really intrigued. Then they they

500
00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:43.680
<v Speaker 4>they have a faith and they have an understanding of it.

501
00:27:43.720 --> 00:27:47.160
<v Speaker 4>But that's that does seem to be open and and

502
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:48.640
<v Speaker 4>there there are those discussions.

503
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Ma, I'm gonna let you go shortly because we

504
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:55.200
<v Speaker 1>do have calls lining up. Thank you for colling, and

505
00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:57.559
<v Speaker 1>thank you for your kind words about the show. I'm

506
00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:00.920
<v Speaker 1>glad that you know, with with being able to get

507
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:03.279
<v Speaker 1>you to think about these things and think about what

508
00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.720
<v Speaker 1>you would say, and that you know that makes me happy.

509
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:10.799
<v Speaker 1>It really does give me the warm smile is inside

510
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:13.480
<v Speaker 1>to know that people are thinking about the show positively

511
00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:16.160
<v Speaker 1>like that. But I do appreciate your call. Please call

512
00:28:16.279 --> 00:28:19.039
<v Speaker 1>back and let us know how these conversations go if

513
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:21.440
<v Speaker 1>you do end up having them. I would love to

514
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:24.880
<v Speaker 1>follow your journey on this and you know, especially if

515
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:27.359
<v Speaker 1>you're talking to a range of different people and on

516
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:29.680
<v Speaker 1>a range of different subjects. I would love to follow

517
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:32.359
<v Speaker 1>your story on this, so please Matt give us a callback.

518
00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:35.200
<v Speaker 1>I do appreciate your calling us, John. That was a

519
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:36.440
<v Speaker 1>great call to start off.

520
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I agree, and I do have to hear howse

521
00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:44.000
<v Speaker 2>conversations go so totally interest in that.

522
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, stay tuned for more exciting calls. As many of

523
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:52.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, we haven't not going to do that accident again.

524
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:55.599
<v Speaker 1>I apologize to all Americans, Canadians, or anyone who sounds

525
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:57.759
<v Speaker 1>vaguely like that, because it's all you all sound the

526
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:00.079
<v Speaker 1>same to me. As many of you know, we have

527
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.480
<v Speaker 1>initiated phrase two of our brick fundraiser. We want to

528
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:06.960
<v Speaker 1>highlight some of the standout orders we've received. This week's

529
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.039
<v Speaker 1>featured brick goes out to Joseph. They are always saying

530
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:13.039
<v Speaker 1>God loves us. If that's love, I'd rather have a

531
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:16.000
<v Speaker 1>bit of kindness. Thank you for your purchase, Joseph, and

532
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:18.920
<v Speaker 1>you too can get your brick at tiny dot cc

533
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:23.119
<v Speaker 1>slash Acea Bricks. I'm not going to lie. I've had

534
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:25.200
<v Speaker 1>an idea for a brick for a long time and

535
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.079
<v Speaker 1>I don't know whether they'd let me do it, so

536
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:31.480
<v Speaker 1>I've not put it forward because it is a bit naughty.

537
00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:37.920
<v Speaker 1>So anyway, brushing swiftly moving on. If we get ten dollars,

538
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:43.640
<v Speaker 1>that's real US dollars plus worth of superchats, godless Engineer

539
00:29:43.720 --> 00:29:48.119
<v Speaker 1>will channel the spirit of Jesus Christ into a puppet

540
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:54.519
<v Speaker 1>for the world to enjoy. That's ten ten dollars plus superchats.

541
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:57.400
<v Speaker 1>So if we get one hundred dollars in superchats, we

542
00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:02.319
<v Speaker 1>are going to get John channeling uh and I almost

543
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:08.279
<v Speaker 1>came over came over himself then, because I'm and of

544
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:12.400
<v Speaker 1>course available on tiny dot cc slash ACA, flyers are

545
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:15.799
<v Speaker 1>principal calling flyers post these with permission. Of course, we

546
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:19.279
<v Speaker 1>don't want anybody getting into trouble, so community bulletin boards

547
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.480
<v Speaker 1>so people know they should call our show and defend

548
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.240
<v Speaker 1>their faith. If you do post any flyers, make sure

549
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:28.079
<v Speaker 1>to snap a picture of it and place it of

550
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:32.400
<v Speaker 1>it in place and send it to TV at Atheist

551
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:36.519
<v Speaker 1>Hyphencommunity dot org, and we may feature your photo on

552
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:41.000
<v Speaker 1>an upcoming show. And as always we have merch you

553
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:43.440
<v Speaker 1>can get your talk he then merch at tiny dot

554
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:47.640
<v Speaker 1>cc slash slash merch aca, where you can get teas, hoodies,

555
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:51.359
<v Speaker 1>crop tops, hats, tumblers, mugs, all sorts of things. If

556
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:54.559
<v Speaker 1>you like one of our hosts, Sophia, who has just

557
00:30:54.599 --> 00:30:56.880
<v Speaker 1>had a brand new little baby, you can get little

558
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:00.720
<v Speaker 1>baby clothes on there and everything. So you get yourself

559
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:05.000
<v Speaker 1>over there and proudly represent and I will be very

560
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:08.400
<v Speaker 1>very happy if I see see In fact, I will

561
00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:11.759
<v Speaker 1>make this pledge now if I see any person in

562
00:31:12.279 --> 00:31:15.240
<v Speaker 1>real life, if I bump into any of you in

563
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:20.119
<v Speaker 1>real life. This largely applied to British fans of the show.

564
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:22.240
<v Speaker 1>But if I bump into you in any of you

565
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:27.680
<v Speaker 1>in real life wearing Talk Heathen merch I will personally

566
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:31.400
<v Speaker 1>buy you a second item of merchandise. I promise you.

567
00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:33.960
<v Speaker 1>I will have a selfie with you, we will post

568
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:37.119
<v Speaker 1>it on the Talk Heathen Facebook page, and I will

569
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:40.240
<v Speaker 1>personally buy you a second item of merchandise and send

570
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:44.000
<v Speaker 1>it to you. So get representing people, especially if you're

571
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:47.200
<v Speaker 1>over on my side of the pond. Like the video

572
00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:51.559
<v Speaker 1>and subscribe to the channel. Enable notifications and comment below

573
00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:56.680
<v Speaker 1>on your favorite caller. We have calls lining up. I

574
00:31:57.319 --> 00:32:00.759
<v Speaker 1>am going to take. I'm going to take because I

575
00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:03.319
<v Speaker 1>asked Dee to call in on this subject and we

576
00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:06.559
<v Speaker 1>love d on this show. Anyway, But I kind of

577
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:09.880
<v Speaker 1>I challenged a little bit something I heard D say

578
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:12.440
<v Speaker 1>to another couple of hosts a couple of weeks ago.

579
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:15.640
<v Speaker 1>So I wanted to just bring that D. Hello, how

580
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:16.079
<v Speaker 1>are you.

581
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:17.039
<v Speaker 2>Hi, Richard.

582
00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:18.799
<v Speaker 7>Nice to talk to you again.

583
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:26.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to no, don't worry.

584
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:29.720
<v Speaker 7>I just wanted to say, John, I'm really glad to

585
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:32.200
<v Speaker 7>finally talk to you as well.

586
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:35.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I'm glad that you called in today. So

587
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:37.480
<v Speaker 2>what question did you have?

588
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:43.279
<v Speaker 7>So I had a discussion with Sophia and objectively Dan

589
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:48.960
<v Speaker 7>two or three weeks ago, Mike uh and Richard let

590
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:51.920
<v Speaker 7>me know that he kind of wanted to have a

591
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:55.640
<v Speaker 7>further discussion on that. So tell me what you want.

592
00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:58.079
<v Speaker 7>You want to know, Richard.

593
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:01.599
<v Speaker 1>So I actually wanted to such on two aspects of

594
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:03.920
<v Speaker 1>something you brought up in that call. Firstly, that you

595
00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:09.359
<v Speaker 1>were a secular Buddhist and Buddhism is my it's my bag, baby,

596
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:11.720
<v Speaker 1>So I wanted to kind of go into that a

597
00:33:11.720 --> 00:33:15.960
<v Speaker 1>little bit with you. But also, you know, we had this,

598
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:19.920
<v Speaker 1>you had this conversation with Sophia and Dan, and you

599
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.400
<v Speaker 1>were talking about people who were coming out of religion.

600
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:26.039
<v Speaker 1>And tell me if I'm misrepresenting you at any point year.

601
00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:28.519
<v Speaker 1>This is how I understood it, and you know, you

602
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:31.359
<v Speaker 1>were kind of saying you shouldn't, we shouldn't kind of

603
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:35.079
<v Speaker 1>challenge them so hard because they're in a transitional phase.

604
00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:38.680
<v Speaker 1>So they might have come out of an orthodox religion

605
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:42.799
<v Speaker 1>and be going through some kind of spiritual phase, still

606
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:46.880
<v Speaker 1>holding on to supernatural beliefs, and when they're in that stage,

607
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:49.920
<v Speaker 1>we shouldn't challenge people as hard. Am I on the

608
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:55.920
<v Speaker 1>right lines there generally yes, right, So this is this

609
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:59.200
<v Speaker 1>is this is kind of what my objection was to that,

610
00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:02.519
<v Speaker 1>And I'd love to hear your response to this. I

611
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:05.480
<v Speaker 1>don't know when I'm talking to somebody whether you know,

612
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:08.800
<v Speaker 1>unless they specifically state I have come out of a

613
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:11.920
<v Speaker 1>religion and I now believe this, And even then, I

614
00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:15.199
<v Speaker 1>do not know for certain that that is a transitional phase.

615
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Somebody could have left mainstream religion, somebody might have always

616
00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:23.639
<v Speaker 1>held onto this supernatural belief and I think making the

617
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:29.559
<v Speaker 1>assumption that's a transitional stages is quite dangerous thing to do.

618
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.480
<v Speaker 1>And to say, then, well, I'm not going to challenge

619
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:34.480
<v Speaker 1>this person as hard as I would if they were

620
00:34:34.760 --> 00:34:38.760
<v Speaker 1>within religion. I think that's doing the disservice to kind

621
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:45.840
<v Speaker 1>of educating and education using critical thinking and skepticism and things.

622
00:34:46.039 --> 00:34:48.719
<v Speaker 1>You know. I want to I want people to have

623
00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:52.679
<v Speaker 1>a better toolbox, regardless of whether they're in a transitional

624
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:56.639
<v Speaker 1>phase or what their beliefs are. You know, if they

625
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:59.320
<v Speaker 1>don't believe in a god, but they believe in some

626
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:04.239
<v Speaker 1>kind of expirit ghosts, things like that, I think those

627
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:09.079
<v Speaker 1>people still should be challenged on those beliefs. And in fact,

628
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:11.800
<v Speaker 1>in my experience, and I can only talk from my

629
00:35:11.880 --> 00:35:16.039
<v Speaker 1>own experience here, I've found much more pushback from people

630
00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:20.039
<v Speaker 1>who hold those kind of vague supernatural beliefs than I

631
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:23.159
<v Speaker 1>have from people who hold on to kind of orthodox

632
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:26.960
<v Speaker 1>religious beliefs. I've found people with orthodox religious beliefs are

633
00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:30.039
<v Speaker 1>much more open to talk about it, whereas people with

634
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:35.360
<v Speaker 1>kind of vague supernatural beliefs tend to really really kind

635
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:38.840
<v Speaker 1>of not want to have the conversation. They kind of

636
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:42.119
<v Speaker 1>really reluctant to have the conversation. And I don't know

637
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:46.039
<v Speaker 1>whether that is because, you know, the kind of inner

638
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:50.039
<v Speaker 1>head space where they kind of maybe know that it's

639
00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:53.000
<v Speaker 1>all bullshit, that they don't really want to acknowledge that.

640
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:57.000
<v Speaker 1>So I'm going to ask you as a person who

641
00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:01.480
<v Speaker 1>is you know, self identified being in that space. Is

642
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:05.960
<v Speaker 1>it possible the reason you think that we should not

643
00:36:06.039 --> 00:36:09.360
<v Speaker 1>be as hard on people in this transitional stage or

644
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:13.760
<v Speaker 1>hold these beliefs because you think within yourself that you

645
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:16.559
<v Speaker 1>might have to acknowledge that they are irrational.

646
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:21.400
<v Speaker 7>You know what, Richard, You're absolutely right. I was speaking

647
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:28.800
<v Speaker 7>out of personal experience on several occasions, and having said that,

648
00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:33.800
<v Speaker 7>I want to mention that I challenge myself almost daily,

649
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:38.039
<v Speaker 7>you know, when I come up or whenever those thoughts

650
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:41.920
<v Speaker 7>or feelings come up, I challenge myself. And number one,

651
00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:45.320
<v Speaker 7>you know how important is it to how important is

652
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:49.679
<v Speaker 7>it to me to believe it? And I shed a

653
00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:53.480
<v Speaker 7>little bit every time I do that. I want I

654
00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:59.800
<v Speaker 7>mainly wanted to talk about some of the things I've heard.

655
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:07.079
<v Speaker 7>I'm talking about people who aren't interested in educating so

656
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:10.599
<v Speaker 7>much as they are in having gotcha moments.

657
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:12.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I've got.

658
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:14.159
<v Speaker 7>It wasn't very clear about that, I don't think.

659
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:14.599
<v Speaker 4>No, I.

660
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Really appreciate the clarification. I really really do, because you know, I,

661
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:23.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's very I'm probably one of the most

662
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.719
<v Speaker 1>vocal people on this in this space that I know of,

663
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:32.480
<v Speaker 1>But I have as many arguments with atheists as I

664
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:38.119
<v Speaker 1>do with theists in these social media spaces, because you know,

665
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:42.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm all about kind of giving people better, better frameworks

666
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:45.800
<v Speaker 1>to think by, you know, better ways to assess what

667
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:48.639
<v Speaker 1>they believe. That's that's really what my bag is. And

668
00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:52.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, atheists are as guilty of needing that as

669
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:56.760
<v Speaker 1>many theists are in a lot of respects. And you know,

670
00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:00.440
<v Speaker 1>so I appreciate that clarification from you, I really really do,

671
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:03.519
<v Speaker 1>because a lot of atheists are out there to give

672
00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:07.639
<v Speaker 1>gotcha moments to people, So I completely understand where you're

673
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:10.719
<v Speaker 1>coming from that. On that, Having said that, I want

674
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:14.000
<v Speaker 1>to hear from John because this isn't the Richard Gilliver Show.

675
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:16.800
<v Speaker 1>It's the Talk Ethen and we have two horse on here,

676
00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:19.079
<v Speaker 1>so I'm gonna let John kind of take over for

677
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:22.000
<v Speaker 1>a while give his opinion on the matter. Yeah.

678
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.840
<v Speaker 2>So, I mean, I generally am perceived to be like

679
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.239
<v Speaker 2>a pretty strong personality, and and and I generally come

680
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:34.880
<v Speaker 2>out strong. I usually try. I don't I don't try

681
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:39.239
<v Speaker 2>to give any quarter I guess to somebody in a conversation,

682
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:43.519
<v Speaker 2>but that that's real, that really is depending on the

683
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:47.920
<v Speaker 2>topic that's being discussed, you know, because if it's if

684
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:51.639
<v Speaker 2>it's a conversation over like whether or not women should

685
00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:55.159
<v Speaker 2>have bodily autonomy, and they're basing their whole argument on God,

686
00:38:55.800 --> 00:39:00.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm less likely to you know, give somebody an e

687
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:03.800
<v Speaker 2>time on that particular topic as opposed to like a

688
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:08.360
<v Speaker 2>topic about Christian origins. Yeah, and so like, it is

689
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:12.280
<v Speaker 2>very context sensitive for me as to when I'm more

690
00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:17.920
<v Speaker 2>understanding and more accepting of people going through a transitional phase,

691
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:21.599
<v Speaker 2>either coming out of religion or whether they're still in

692
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:25.119
<v Speaker 2>religion and they're just questioning their beliefs. It really kind

693
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:29.519
<v Speaker 2>of depends, like general conversation about God. You know, I'm

694
00:39:29.559 --> 00:39:31.639
<v Speaker 2>gonna be a lot easier on people. But if we're

695
00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:34.280
<v Speaker 2>talking about God in a moral aspect or like why

696
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:37.800
<v Speaker 2>or like you know, how you have to be a

697
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Christian or some kind of religious person in order to

698
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:44.320
<v Speaker 2>really be able to ground your morality. You know, in reality,

699
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:48.159
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I'm less likely in those situations to

700
00:39:48.239 --> 00:39:53.239
<v Speaker 2>be understanding of those things because like my mind immediately

701
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:57.039
<v Speaker 2>goes to how immoral the Bible is and how that

702
00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:00.760
<v Speaker 2>causes people on a number of different topics to just

703
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:05.159
<v Speaker 2>say horrible things and they think that it's just normal,

704
00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:08.199
<v Speaker 2>like it's because it's normalized to them, so they don't

705
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:11.559
<v Speaker 2>understand the depravity of what they're saying. And so I

706
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:15.360
<v Speaker 2>guess I feel like, in the conversation, my goal is

707
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:19.079
<v Speaker 2>to really highlight the depravity of their statements. And if

708
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I have to be a little forceful or a little

709
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:28.920
<v Speaker 2>maybe bombastic or you know, harsh, if you will, in

710
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:31.320
<v Speaker 2>that conversation in order to get them to understand the

711
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:35.800
<v Speaker 2>depravity of their statements, then I don't have a problem

712
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:39.039
<v Speaker 2>with doing that. I know, on a call in show recently,

713
00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:44.400
<v Speaker 2>we were talking about sexual slavery in the Old Testament,

714
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:47.360
<v Speaker 2>how God commanded it and everything like that, and I

715
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:51.239
<v Speaker 2>phrased it in a very uncomfortable way because I, you know,

716
00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:54.639
<v Speaker 2>I was talking about how God commanded Israelite men to

717
00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:58.039
<v Speaker 2>fluck children, because that's what it was. It was a

718
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:02.679
<v Speaker 2>grown ass man that we're you know, having sex with children,

719
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:04.679
<v Speaker 2>and so I phrased it in a very uncomfortable way

720
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:06.920
<v Speaker 2>for the caller, and so the caller was like, can

721
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:09.480
<v Speaker 2>we not talk about it in this kind of way?

722
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:12.800
<v Speaker 2>And so I just asked them, I was like, Okay,

723
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:16.320
<v Speaker 2>in what way can we talk about fucking children? That

724
00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:20.320
<v Speaker 2>would placate your sensibilities because I feel like there's no

725
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:22.599
<v Speaker 2>way that we can talk about that particular subject and

726
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:25.920
<v Speaker 2>how that subject exists in the Bible in a way

727
00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:29.320
<v Speaker 2>that's nice, in a way that makes them not feel

728
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:32.239
<v Speaker 2>icky about it, because it should make you feel icky.

729
00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:36.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, it should be a disgusting conversation to have.

730
00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:39.400
<v Speaker 2>But the fact that somebody wants to make the conversation

731
00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:43.000
<v Speaker 2>easier to have, I feel like it just shows how

732
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:46.159
<v Speaker 2>they don't actually want to talk about the harsh realities

733
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:49.039
<v Speaker 2>of the Bible. They just you know, they're used to

734
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:51.159
<v Speaker 2>the Bible giving them comfort and everything like that. And

735
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:54.199
<v Speaker 2>I totally agree. I totally understand that, not trying to

736
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:56.719
<v Speaker 2>take that away from anybody, but at the same time,

737
00:41:56.760 --> 00:41:59.559
<v Speaker 2>you have to acknowledge these harsh realities that are portrayed

738
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:03.159
<v Speaker 2>in the Bible. And so I guess all to bring

739
00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:05.559
<v Speaker 2>this all back together and so I can stop talking,

740
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:11.119
<v Speaker 2>is that, you know, it depends on the context, and

741
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:14.159
<v Speaker 2>it depends on what topic is being discussed as to

742
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:17.199
<v Speaker 2>whether or not I'm harsh or if I'm more understanding.

743
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:19.639
<v Speaker 2>And so I think having a good gauge of that

744
00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:22.199
<v Speaker 2>in the conversation you're having is key.

745
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:28.239
<v Speaker 7>And I absolutely agree. I want to make it clear

746
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:32.440
<v Speaker 7>that my opinion was never that we shouldn't push back

747
00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:38.320
<v Speaker 7>on the horrible ship that people say to defend their religion.

748
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:40.480
<v Speaker 7>That was never my position.

749
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:43.280
<v Speaker 1>I think I think for me it's that clear in

750
00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:47.119
<v Speaker 1>previous calls as well. The quite halfit's a push back

751
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:50.840
<v Speaker 1>on her things, you know, and we appreciate that from

752
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:51.719
<v Speaker 1>you on this show.

753
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:55.320
<v Speaker 7>Thank you, thank you well, thank you for allowing me

754
00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:58.400
<v Speaker 7>to clarify and for giving me your thoughts. I really

755
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:00.920
<v Speaker 7>do agree with both of you, and I probably could

756
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.159
<v Speaker 7>have phrased it all a little better, So thank you.

757
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:05.000
<v Speaker 8>I appreciate it.

758
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:08.079
<v Speaker 1>The more conversations we have, the better we have a

759
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:10.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, get at having them. And you know, I'm

760
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:14.400
<v Speaker 1>aware that you're new to this space of having these conversations,

761
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:18.400
<v Speaker 1>and you know, and you've always been a welcome caller.

762
00:43:18.840 --> 00:43:21.239
<v Speaker 1>Before you go, I'm not letting you go, leting you're

763
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:24.000
<v Speaker 1>off the hook that easily. I want to talk to

764
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:26.599
<v Speaker 1>you a little bit about secular Buddhism and what it

765
00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:29.159
<v Speaker 1>means to you, because I never get a chance to

766
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:31.320
<v Speaker 1>talk about Buddhism on this show. So I'm going to

767
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:33.960
<v Speaker 1>gosh darn it, grab it with both hands while I

768
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:38.719
<v Speaker 1>do have the opportunity. What what what does secular Buddhism

769
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:43.960
<v Speaker 1>mean to you? And how do you view Buddhism on

770
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:47.280
<v Speaker 1>the whole. Do you think secular Buddhism is a good

771
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:49.400
<v Speaker 1>representation of Buddhism on the whole.

772
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:54.679
<v Speaker 7>Well, I think it is because good Talma never claimed

773
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:59.920
<v Speaker 7>to be a supernatural being. He was just someone who

774
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:07.360
<v Speaker 7>will had some really insightful I don't know Tiffany's or

775
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:09.599
<v Speaker 7>whatever about.

776
00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:13.119
<v Speaker 1>How I just feel any to intrupt you at this point.

777
00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Have you ever read the Buddhist scriptures?

778
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:19.559
<v Speaker 7>I've read some, not.

779
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Not a lot, having a hard copy of the Tipy Tarka,

780
00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:30.320
<v Speaker 1>which is the you know, the Buddhist equivalent of the Bible,

781
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:33.000
<v Speaker 1>if we want simplify things to that extent, which is

782
00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:37.800
<v Speaker 1>eleven times longer than the Christian Bible. Roughly give a take.

783
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.719
<v Speaker 1>There is plenty of supernatural stuff, both claimed by the

784
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:46.559
<v Speaker 1>Buddha and performed by the Buddha. He you know, it

785
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:49.239
<v Speaker 1>says that a monk who has achieved such a level

786
00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:54.119
<v Speaker 1>of kind of insight, of power, of meditative powers can

787
00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:58.559
<v Speaker 1>transport themselves through walls. It says that they you know,

788
00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:03.599
<v Speaker 1>he himself claims to and have outstretched his arms and

789
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.320
<v Speaker 1>traveled to one of the Brahma heavens to talk to God.

790
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:11.440
<v Speaker 1>He claims to have the psychic powers of being able

791
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:15.239
<v Speaker 1>to read them people's minds and see the future. You know,

792
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:20.039
<v Speaker 1>he has all these mystical powers, all these supernatural powers

793
00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 1>that many people who kind of come to Buddhism from

794
00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:28.599
<v Speaker 1>the Western or secular perspective. And I'm certainly not criticizing that,

795
00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:31.840
<v Speaker 1>by the way, because you know, the secular perspective of

796
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:35.360
<v Speaker 1>looking at Buddhism is a legitimate way of looking at it.

797
00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:38.599
<v Speaker 1>So I'm not saying that, you know, you are not

798
00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:41.800
<v Speaker 1>a true Buddhist by any stretch of the imagination. What

799
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:44.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying is there is a wider perspective. And you know,

800
00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:47.920
<v Speaker 1>in religious studies, and I was talking about this before

801
00:45:47.960 --> 00:45:49.920
<v Speaker 1>the show with the other guys. You know, when you've

802
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:53.519
<v Speaker 1>got a religion, whether you've got Christianity or Islam or Buddhism,

803
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:57.920
<v Speaker 1>what we say is that there are Buddhisms or Christianities

804
00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:02.639
<v Speaker 1>because you don't have the whole scope of a religion

805
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:07.880
<v Speaker 1>is so wide that you don't have a one size

806
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:11.360
<v Speaker 1>fits all kind of thing. And whereas secular Buddhism is

807
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:16.039
<v Speaker 1>perfectly legitimate to practice and not accept those supernatural beliefs.

808
00:46:16.119 --> 00:46:19.239
<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't accept the supernatural beliefs of Buddhism,

809
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:22.280
<v Speaker 1>and I've been practicing Buddhist meditation for over twenty years,

810
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:25.719
<v Speaker 1>so I certainly get it, as I certainly do get it.

811
00:46:26.039 --> 00:46:30.119
<v Speaker 1>But that is not to say that Buddhism or Buddhisms

812
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:34.039
<v Speaker 1>are devoid of those beliefs. And certainly, if you're coming

813
00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:38.079
<v Speaker 1>from a scriptural point of view, whether that's the terra Vada,

814
00:46:38.119 --> 00:46:40.880
<v Speaker 1>which is the kind of oldest school of Buddhism we have,

815
00:46:41.320 --> 00:46:45.119
<v Speaker 1>or the Mahayana, which is the other major school of Buddhism,

816
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:49.199
<v Speaker 1>and Vadriana, which is sometimes classed as a separate school,

817
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:54.159
<v Speaker 1>but it's a subset of Mahaiana. All of those traditions

818
00:46:54.199 --> 00:46:58.760
<v Speaker 1>contain significant supernatural elements. When you're looking at the scripture,

819
00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:02.760
<v Speaker 1>and the scripture, you know, the tippy Taka, especially the

820
00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:06.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, the section of it that deals with the

821
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Buddha's direct teachings and the teachings of his disciples, they

822
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:15.199
<v Speaker 1>contain lots and lots and lots of examples of the supernatural.

823
00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:17.960
<v Speaker 1>So I would really really encourage you to kind of

824
00:47:18.039 --> 00:47:22.599
<v Speaker 1>go out and look at those scriptural references, to have

825
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:26.119
<v Speaker 1>a look at the wider perspective of Buddhism and kind

826
00:47:26.199 --> 00:47:29.480
<v Speaker 1>of just have a look and like educate yourself. I

827
00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:34.039
<v Speaker 1>guess a little bit more on the religion as a whole,

828
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:36.360
<v Speaker 1>because I think you'll find some of the stuff in

829
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:37.880
<v Speaker 1>there very very interesting.

830
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:39.679
<v Speaker 8>Yeah.

831
00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:45.920
<v Speaker 7>Mostly what I have been reading are the Dalai Lama's books.

832
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:50.119
<v Speaker 7>Right now, I'm trying to work my way through some

833
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:56.880
<v Speaker 7>teaching he's written on the four Noble Truths.

834
00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:00.920
<v Speaker 1>The dala Alama comes from from the high on the school.

835
00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:03.599
<v Speaker 1>Tibetan Buddhism is a subset of them are high on

836
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:07.199
<v Speaker 1>the school, and you know, just to give you an example,

837
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:09.840
<v Speaker 1>and you know, it's a communicator. The Dalilong is a

838
00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:15.039
<v Speaker 1>communicator for Buddhism to a largely Western audience. The West

839
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:19.199
<v Speaker 1>has been very good to him in Tibet's exile, you know,

840
00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:23.679
<v Speaker 1>Tibetan Buddhism's exile from Tibet into India and other places.

841
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:27.079
<v Speaker 1>And you know, he's you know, from being very very young,

842
00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.079
<v Speaker 1>he has developed a good relationship with the West and

843
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:34.880
<v Speaker 1>communicating Buddhist ideas to the West. What it doesn't necessarily

844
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:39.960
<v Speaker 1>do very clearly is put forward these, you know, the

845
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:43.320
<v Speaker 1>more supernatural claims. I mean, in Tibetan Buddhism, for example,

846
00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:48.800
<v Speaker 1>you have you have stupas which they burn. I can't

847
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:53.039
<v Speaker 1>remember what planet is, but it sends he's fragrant, you know,

848
00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:57.480
<v Speaker 1>plumes of smoke into the skies. And you know, from

849
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:01.719
<v Speaker 1>the religion perspective, they are there to help people who

850
00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:04.679
<v Speaker 1>have died and are going to be reborn to kind

851
00:49:04.760 --> 00:49:08.360
<v Speaker 1>of climb up into the heavens and achieve a good

852
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:11.280
<v Speaker 1>rebirth and the like. And you know the Dalai Lama

853
00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:14.760
<v Speaker 1>talks himself about you know, the dial Lama is supposed

854
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:20.239
<v Speaker 1>to be a reborn figure himself, a body satva, reborn

855
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:24.840
<v Speaker 1>from a figure called Avalog Savara and or kwan Yin

856
00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:28.719
<v Speaker 1>if you want the simpler name. That's another aspect of

857
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:32.559
<v Speaker 1>that figure is supposed to have been born from. And yeah, yeah,

858
00:49:32.599 --> 00:49:38.000
<v Speaker 1>and when when it is better, monkey is reborn. In fact,

859
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:40.159
<v Speaker 1>there's a there's a film out from then. I think

860
00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:44.679
<v Speaker 1>it's from the nineties with starring Keanu Reeves. Now I

861
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:49.159
<v Speaker 1>will warn you because this is not it's very unacceptable.

862
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:53.039
<v Speaker 1>This Reeves does do blackface in the film, so you know,

863
00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:55.880
<v Speaker 1>it's something to be aware of before watching it. But

864
00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:59.840
<v Speaker 1>in that that film actually talks about this reincarnation pro

865
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:03.840
<v Speaker 1>that all the alarmers go through, that all significantly high

866
00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:09.199
<v Speaker 1>ranked larmers go through of demonstrating that they have been reborn,

867
00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:13.000
<v Speaker 1>that they are the reincarnation of a particular figure. So

868
00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:17.599
<v Speaker 1>when this current Diali Lama dies, his successor will be

869
00:50:17.679 --> 00:50:22.079
<v Speaker 1>chosen because they believe it is his. It's not a soul,

870
00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:25.519
<v Speaker 1>because there is no soul in Buddhism, but the five candors,

871
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:28.199
<v Speaker 1>which are the things that are reborn in Buddhism, goes

872
00:50:28.280 --> 00:50:31.800
<v Speaker 1>on into a new body. And when that body it

873
00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:34.760
<v Speaker 1>comes to fruition, and that that child is born, they

874
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:38.000
<v Speaker 1>will put them to a test and give personal items

875
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:41.199
<v Speaker 1>of the current ally Lama so that child to see

876
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:44.480
<v Speaker 1>if he can pick out his items, and if he

877
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:47.000
<v Speaker 1>can't do so, it will be called the you know,

878
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:49.800
<v Speaker 1>it will be announced as the reincarnation of the fourteenth

879
00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:52.960
<v Speaker 1>current Ali Lama and be announced the fifteenth dial Lama.

880
00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:57.480
<v Speaker 1>So even though the Dalai Lama is a spokesperson for Yeah,

881
00:50:57.559 --> 00:50:58.079
<v Speaker 1>so we go on.

882
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:01.679
<v Speaker 7>I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I saw that in a movie

883
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:04.559
<v Speaker 7>about the Darling law Man. I thought I didn't. I

884
00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:07.679
<v Speaker 7>thought that was just Hollywood, but that really will know that.

885
00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:10.559
<v Speaker 1>Is that is the actual process that they go through

886
00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:15.840
<v Speaker 1>of choosing, you know, the red next reincarnated Lama. But

887
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:17.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to leave you with that because we have

888
00:51:17.719 --> 00:51:19.599
<v Speaker 1>lots of callers and I will talk for it. He

889
00:51:20.360 --> 00:51:22.440
<v Speaker 1>buddies and if I get chance to do so, which

890
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:26.039
<v Speaker 1>probably not monologue, so you know, hit us up again.

891
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:27.760
<v Speaker 1>They let us know how you get on. But I

892
00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:31.119
<v Speaker 1>do appreciate the call. I always enjoy it when people

893
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:33.360
<v Speaker 1>call up and want to talk to me directly about,

894
00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:36.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, either something I've said or something I'm challenging

895
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:39.440
<v Speaker 1>them on personally. So I really really do appreciate that.

896
00:51:39.639 --> 00:51:41.079
<v Speaker 1>And we'll see you again soon.

897
00:51:42.199 --> 00:51:42.679
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

898
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:45.599
<v Speaker 1>That was John. I know I kind of left you

899
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:45.960
<v Speaker 1>out a.

900
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Bit that, but no, no, that's perfectly fine. I was

901
00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:51.079
<v Speaker 2>actually thinking the way that you were describing that reminds

902
00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:54.760
<v Speaker 2>me of Avatar the Last Airbender. How the aer Nomads

903
00:51:55.119 --> 00:51:58.639
<v Speaker 2>were able to identify who the reincarnated Avatar was is

904
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:01.719
<v Speaker 2>the exact same way that you were describing them pitching

905
00:52:01.719 --> 00:52:05.280
<v Speaker 2>out the I guess it's the next Darli Lama is

906
00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:06.800
<v Speaker 2>that who you ye?

907
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Any any high ranking dark larmas in Tibetan Buddhism tend

908
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:15.719
<v Speaker 1>to go through this same process we have. We have

909
00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:19.480
<v Speaker 1>some superchats. We're also I'm going to do some super chats.

910
00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:22.119
<v Speaker 1>Then we're going to read the patrons out the top

911
00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:25.440
<v Speaker 1>five patrons, and let's look at the superchats.

912
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:27.840
<v Speaker 5>First. We have do do.

913
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:34.079
<v Speaker 1>Miranda Rensburger, who has posted this twice, very kindly. Miranda,

914
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:36.320
<v Speaker 1>you could have said something else, you know as well,

915
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:43.360
<v Speaker 1>ten dollars saying November twentieth it's transgender Date of Remembrance

916
00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:46.480
<v Speaker 1>data honor trans people who have lost their lives to

917
00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:50.239
<v Speaker 1>violence or self arm. Let's work against people using religion

918
00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:54.639
<v Speaker 1>as an excuse for their hate. Absolutely, Miranda, I'm totally

919
00:52:54.679 --> 00:52:58.039
<v Speaker 1>behind that, and in fact, not just religious people, because

920
00:52:58.039 --> 00:53:01.039
<v Speaker 1>there are many many non religious people will have this weird,

921
00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:04.280
<v Speaker 1>fucking I thing against trans people which I don't get

922
00:53:04.519 --> 00:53:07.760
<v Speaker 1>or to go out and read the fucking science. So

923
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:12.760
<v Speaker 1>onic people, please, Daniel show a shower. I'm going to

924
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:15.800
<v Speaker 1>get this wrong because I always do with pronunciation. So

925
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:18.599
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety nine, thank you for that who said

926
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:23.039
<v Speaker 1>I want to hear from puppet Jesus. Well, maybe you

927
00:53:23.159 --> 00:53:26.159
<v Speaker 1>will get to hear from puppet Jesus. We just needed

928
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:29.119
<v Speaker 1>a few more people to throw us some ten dollars

929
00:53:29.239 --> 00:53:32.960
<v Speaker 1>super chats and le's let's go down that route. We

930
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:36.400
<v Speaker 1>have the patrons, John, can you see those? Do you

931
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:37.440
<v Speaker 1>want to read those out?

932
00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:37.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

933
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:44.599
<v Speaker 2>Sure I can so. Top five patrons are Oops, all Singularity, Klevey,

934
00:53:45.480 --> 00:53:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Hell very sorry. I'm terrible pronouncing names on occasion except

935
00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:54.480
<v Speaker 2>for this next one. Dingle Berry Jackson left in the leaves.

936
00:53:54.559 --> 00:54:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Brian zoup Key honorable mentioned number six and Paul Sherman.

937
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:03.079
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely thank you for that. If you want to become

938
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:06.559
<v Speaker 1>a Patreon you can is you can go to our

939
00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:10.800
<v Speaker 1>patreon at tiny dot c set slash patreon th And

940
00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:15.639
<v Speaker 1>on that note, we have started recording the Tokienen Discord

941
00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:18.960
<v Speaker 1>after show for all levels of paid patrons. I'm going

942
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:21.480
<v Speaker 1>to be there today, John's going to be there today,

943
00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:25.239
<v Speaker 1>and Kelly, our backup host, will also be there today.

944
00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:27.960
<v Speaker 1>So you're going to get a lot of content out

945
00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:30.679
<v Speaker 1>of that. So if you can't join us live, join

946
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:33.440
<v Speaker 1>the patreon and you can get all of those recorded

947
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:36.360
<v Speaker 1>after shows and sometimes we get some great insights We

948
00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:39.000
<v Speaker 1>get to see a little bit more into the host's

949
00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:41.800
<v Speaker 1>kind of personal lives, and it's all there for you

950
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:45.320
<v Speaker 1>on that Patreon for you to get. So I'm going

951
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:48.840
<v Speaker 1>to jump into another call. We have calls up on

952
00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:53.000
<v Speaker 1>calls on calls, and we're to take Stephen from Florida,

953
00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:57.880
<v Speaker 1>who wondering why is lamotophobia it is called is lamophobia.

954
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:01.360
<v Speaker 1>Steven took us through it. Well, ye're asking us.

955
00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:06.199
<v Speaker 3>Right, Like, I'm just wondering, like, Islam is the religion

956
00:55:07.239 --> 00:55:11.840
<v Speaker 3>for the Muslim people, and so when people say transphobia

957
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:17.480
<v Speaker 3>or homophobe, they're talking about you know, those groups of people.

958
00:55:18.039 --> 00:55:21.559
<v Speaker 3>And so I don't understand why we call it Islamic phobia,

959
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:26.400
<v Speaker 3>because anybody who basically believes in separation of church and

960
00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:30.159
<v Speaker 3>state would be an Islamic phobe just the way they

961
00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:34.000
<v Speaker 3>would be a Christian, you know, nianity phobe.

962
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:34.360
<v Speaker 1>No.

963
00:55:34.920 --> 00:55:39.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, so as far as Islamophobia goes, Islamophobia is more

964
00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:45.760
<v Speaker 2>about making generalized statements or conclusions about someone simply because

965
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:49.199
<v Speaker 2>they are Muslim or they or you perceive them to

966
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:52.519
<v Speaker 2>be Muslim. So like if you automatically think that they're

967
00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:56.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, a terrorist or something like that just because

968
00:55:56.800 --> 00:55:59.960
<v Speaker 2>they are Muslim that would be a case of islam

969
00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:04.119
<v Speaker 2>a phobia. Simply being for the separation of church and

970
00:56:04.199 --> 00:56:08.639
<v Speaker 2>state is not any kind of phobia because we're I mean,

971
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:12.320
<v Speaker 2>while we are afraid of, you know, what would happen

972
00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:16.000
<v Speaker 2>if religion takes over our government, that's not the main

973
00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:19.400
<v Speaker 2>driving force behind it. And it's also we're not also

974
00:56:19.559 --> 00:56:23.840
<v Speaker 2>making these statements because of like vast generalizations about you know,

975
00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:27.440
<v Speaker 2>religious people in general. It's about the mixture of state

976
00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:31.719
<v Speaker 2>and religion that we're fighting against because we already know

977
00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:35.000
<v Speaker 2>what the problems are there. So there's a number of

978
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:37.760
<v Speaker 2>different nuances that we're talking about here when we're speaking

979
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:43.159
<v Speaker 2>about those things. I do think that just assuming somebody,

980
00:56:43.480 --> 00:56:46.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, if you do perceive them to be a Christian,

981
00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:50.599
<v Speaker 2>assuming that they're homophobic or transphobic or racist or something

982
00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:53.960
<v Speaker 2>like that is not warranted. So I would similarly speak

983
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:57.440
<v Speaker 2>out against that. But at the same time, I feel

984
00:56:57.559 --> 00:57:01.519
<v Speaker 2>like if you dig down deep enough, either the person,

985
00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:05.719
<v Speaker 2>if they're not transphobic, homophobic, and racist as part of

986
00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:10.480
<v Speaker 2>their uh uh, as part of Christianity, then they're they're

987
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:13.639
<v Speaker 2>better than their own religion. Because there you can definitely

988
00:57:14.239 --> 00:57:17.519
<v Speaker 2>uh you know, use Christianity, the Christian scriptures in order

989
00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:20.039
<v Speaker 2>to justify all of those things, and they have been

990
00:57:20.119 --> 00:57:23.480
<v Speaker 2>done in the past to justify those things. And so

991
00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:26.559
<v Speaker 2>I feel like that just highlights how the person is

992
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:29.159
<v Speaker 2>way better than the religion that they claim to practice.

993
00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:34.039
<v Speaker 2>And so, yeah, So to answer your question, Islamophobias called

994
00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:37.280
<v Speaker 2>Islamophobia because of the vast generalizations people make just because

995
00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:39.679
<v Speaker 2>they perceive someone to be a Muslim or they know

996
00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:43.199
<v Speaker 2>about somebody being a Muslim, and so they automatically think, uh,

997
00:57:43.320 --> 00:57:45.079
<v Speaker 2>some prejudicial things about.

998
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:47.320
<v Speaker 8>Them, right, And that's what I'm saying. It kind of

999
00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:49.679
<v Speaker 8>makes no sense to say that.

1000
00:57:49.719 --> 00:57:52.679
<v Speaker 3>It would be like saying like, I'm an atheist.

1001
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:54.920
<v Speaker 5>Does that mean that you don't believe in Zeus?

1002
00:57:55.039 --> 00:57:57.000
<v Speaker 3>And then be like, yeah, I don't believe in Zeus,

1003
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:00.400
<v Speaker 3>but you're a Zeus phobiast, and you know, meaning you're

1004
00:58:00.440 --> 00:58:00.880
<v Speaker 3>like wow.

1005
00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:02.079
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no,

1006
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:04.639
<v Speaker 2>hold on, hold on, Sorry, sorry to interrupt you, Stephen,

1007
00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:06.800
<v Speaker 2>But no, that that that is not anything that I

1008
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:10.280
<v Speaker 2>just said. So what I said was making vast prejudicial

1009
00:58:11.239 --> 00:58:15.000
<v Speaker 2>generalizations about a person and that and uh, and that

1010
00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:18.280
<v Speaker 2>affects how you treat that person and how you see

1011
00:58:18.360 --> 00:58:21.119
<v Speaker 2>that person. If I just simply say I don't believe

1012
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:23.719
<v Speaker 2>in Zeus, that doesn't mean that I'm afraid of somebody

1013
00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:27.079
<v Speaker 2>that practices the ways of the Greek or Roman pantheon,

1014
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.920
<v Speaker 2>which I believe in the Roman pantheon Zeus is actually Jupiter.

1015
00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:33.880
<v Speaker 2>But in any case, however you want to portray that,

1016
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:37.519
<v Speaker 2>it's not that I'm afraid of somebody that practices the

1017
00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:41.599
<v Speaker 2>Greek pantheon. I just don't believe in those gods. So

1018
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:46.559
<v Speaker 2>there's a vast difference in in our terminology here and

1019
00:58:46.679 --> 00:58:48.519
<v Speaker 2>how we're using these words.

1020
00:58:48.599 --> 00:58:50.360
<v Speaker 3>Right, And that's what I was trying to say, is

1021
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:55.000
<v Speaker 3>like I just don't understand like Islamic phobia when when

1022
00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:58.440
<v Speaker 3>they're talking about like you said that, like Muslim people,

1023
00:58:59.800 --> 00:59:03.239
<v Speaker 3>wouldn't it be like Muslim phobia and not and not

1024
00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:04.920
<v Speaker 3>Islamic phobia.

1025
00:59:04.599 --> 00:59:07.519
<v Speaker 8>Because Islam is a religion.

1026
00:59:07.599 --> 00:59:10.320
<v Speaker 3>It's not a group of people, but it's it's a

1027
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:15.280
<v Speaker 3>word that like Christian nationalists and Republicans.

1028
00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:21.119
<v Speaker 2>Views like you said, Stephen, Stephen, what religion do Muslims practice?

1029
00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:21.880
<v Speaker 8>Islam?

1030
00:59:22.480 --> 00:59:26.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, if you are irrationally afraid of Muslims and you

1031
00:59:26.920 --> 00:59:31.119
<v Speaker 2>project your prejudices upon a person without actually knowing the

1032
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:35.840
<v Speaker 2>content of their character or how they implement their understanding

1033
00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:39.039
<v Speaker 2>of Islam. Uh, does it really matter whether or not

1034
00:59:39.119 --> 00:59:43.960
<v Speaker 2>we call it Islamophobia or muslimophobia Muslamophobia?

1035
00:59:44.079 --> 00:59:44.320
<v Speaker 1>Maybe?

1036
00:59:44.480 --> 00:59:47.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't really think the wording matters or

1037
00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:51.800
<v Speaker 2>what words we use. We're still using Islamophobia to describe

1038
00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:56.199
<v Speaker 2>it when somebody irrationally has a hatred or a fear

1039
00:59:56.360 --> 01:00:00.360
<v Speaker 2>of somebody that practices Islam. And I don't don't think

1040
01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:03.400
<v Speaker 2>that there's like, I feel like you're pulling nut hairs

1041
01:00:03.400 --> 01:00:04.599
<v Speaker 2>off of a fly at this point.

1042
01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:07.760
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I just I just wonder, you know, the

1043
01:00:07.960 --> 01:00:11.719
<v Speaker 3>terminology really and how it makes sense if if you

1044
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:16.840
<v Speaker 3>use a religion to uh, you know, codify a.

1045
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:17.760
<v Speaker 8>Group of people.

1046
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:21.760
<v Speaker 3>I believe you know, anybody, you know, everybody has a

1047
01:00:21.880 --> 01:00:24.199
<v Speaker 3>right to their their own religion as long as it

1048
01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:27.480
<v Speaker 3>doesn't affect anybody else. Once it starts affecting other people,

1049
01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:29.159
<v Speaker 3>that's when it becomes a problem.

1050
01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:33.400
<v Speaker 8>So I just didn't understand why we uh call it.

1051
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:37.519
<v Speaker 3>That when when that is the religion that Muslims practice.

1052
01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:40.719
<v Speaker 2>That's right, I get Stephen, can can you can you

1053
01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:45.480
<v Speaker 2>attempt to steal man how I've explained Islamophobia? So far

1054
01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:47.639
<v Speaker 2>in this call, can I what do you know what

1055
01:00:47.719 --> 01:00:51.320
<v Speaker 2>the term steel man is. Steel Man basically is where

1056
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:53.960
<v Speaker 2>you try to present my argument to the best of

1057
01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:56.039
<v Speaker 2>your abilities as as you understand it.

1058
01:00:56.320 --> 01:00:58.320
<v Speaker 8>Oh, I wasn't presenting your arguments.

1059
01:00:58.400 --> 01:00:59.519
<v Speaker 3>I was asking a question.

1060
01:00:59.639 --> 01:01:01.079
<v Speaker 8>I don't I don't know how you think.

1061
01:01:01.159 --> 01:01:04.920
<v Speaker 2>I understand out of a question. No, no, no, So

1062
01:01:05.079 --> 01:01:07.840
<v Speaker 2>I was asking you to try to steal man what

1063
01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:11.719
<v Speaker 2>I've told you in this particular conversation. So, like, as

1064
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:14.440
<v Speaker 2>far as you understand what I've told you in this conversation,

1065
01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:18.760
<v Speaker 2>can you repeat back to me what I've clarified about Islamophobia.

1066
01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:24.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that it's basically a fear of of of of

1067
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:29.320
<v Speaker 3>of Islam, of of a group of people who would

1068
01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:31.400
<v Speaker 3>be associated with Islam.

1069
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:36.519
<v Speaker 2>Well, so a few key adjectives I guess maybe you're

1070
01:01:36.559 --> 01:01:40.400
<v Speaker 2>missing here. That would be an irrational fear of and

1071
01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:45.800
<v Speaker 2>a prejudicial generalizing of the of this group of people

1072
01:01:46.119 --> 01:01:50.719
<v Speaker 2>to where you think that anybody that practices Islam would

1073
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:54.559
<v Speaker 2>match like your worst ideas about them, so you automatically

1074
01:01:54.599 --> 01:01:59.119
<v Speaker 2>assume the worst ideas about them. That is a start

1075
01:01:59.239 --> 01:02:03.239
<v Speaker 2>contrast for I'm just you know, not wanting a religion

1076
01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:08.280
<v Speaker 2>to infect our government or our way of life. Somebody

1077
01:02:08.360 --> 01:02:11.280
<v Speaker 2>can practice their religion as long as it doesn't negatively

1078
01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:15.360
<v Speaker 2>affect other people. That is not the same thing as

1079
01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:22.760
<v Speaker 2>like prejudicially generalizing somebody in a particular kind of mindset

1080
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:25.360
<v Speaker 2>just because they practice a certain kind of religion.

1081
01:02:25.519 --> 01:02:28.559
<v Speaker 3>So I mean that would since America is like eighty

1082
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:31.199
<v Speaker 3>percent Christian, are we not Americans anymore?

1083
01:02:31.239 --> 01:02:33.719
<v Speaker 8>Where Christians? Where the Christians?

1084
01:02:33.800 --> 01:02:37.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't understand the non secutor here that this is

1085
01:02:37.400 --> 01:02:40.320
<v Speaker 2>a non secutor because I don't understand how we got

1086
01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:44.639
<v Speaker 2>from talking about islamophobia to now how people aren't American

1087
01:02:44.760 --> 01:02:45.039
<v Speaker 2>and it.

1088
01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:47.559
<v Speaker 3>Goes back, because it goes back into the same thing.

1089
01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:51.119
<v Speaker 3>It's more like special pleading. One case, it's like saying,

1090
01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:52.920
<v Speaker 3>if you don't believe in any.

1091
01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:56.440
<v Speaker 8>Gods, you could pick one of the five thousand.

1092
01:02:56.159 --> 01:02:58.360
<v Speaker 3>That have been created and been like, so you don't

1093
01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:01.960
<v Speaker 3>believe in this god, and it would it would only

1094
01:03:02.079 --> 01:03:04.440
<v Speaker 3>go that you don't believe in that god.

1095
01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:10.679
<v Speaker 1>Stephen, Look, let's let's let's cut to the chase. What

1096
01:03:11.840 --> 01:03:16.039
<v Speaker 1>why does it matter whether we call it muslimophobia or islamophobia.

1097
01:03:16.360 --> 01:03:19.199
<v Speaker 1>The point is, and the important point is, is that

1098
01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:22.119
<v Speaker 1>the phobia is in there. So there were a group

1099
01:03:22.199 --> 01:03:28.159
<v Speaker 1>of people being you know, unfairly called out or treated

1100
01:03:29.079 --> 01:03:32.119
<v Speaker 1>or dismissed or whatever whatever way he wants phrase it,

1101
01:03:32.679 --> 01:03:36.000
<v Speaker 1>because of the way they identify being a set of

1102
01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:39.400
<v Speaker 1>people who practice a certain religion, and Muslim is someone

1103
01:03:39.440 --> 01:03:42.199
<v Speaker 1>who practices Islam. So it doesn't what what.

1104
01:03:44.199 --> 01:03:46.800
<v Speaker 3>Kind of like kind of like Christians believe in that

1105
01:03:46.920 --> 01:03:48.159
<v Speaker 3>there was a global flood.

1106
01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:50.639
<v Speaker 8>It's it is comical and it is funny.

1107
01:03:50.679 --> 01:03:55.159
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't matter what we believe. It doesn't believe, It

1108
01:03:55.239 --> 01:03:57.840
<v Speaker 1>doesn't matter what they believe. It doesn't matter what they believe.

1109
01:03:58.079 --> 01:04:02.079
<v Speaker 1>It's irrelevant what they believe. Right, Why does what we

1110
01:04:02.199 --> 01:04:05.880
<v Speaker 1>call what we call the term of them having you know,

1111
01:04:06.360 --> 01:04:11.639
<v Speaker 1>unfair prejudice shoved their way? Why does that term itself?

1112
01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:14.719
<v Speaker 1>Why is that the important aspect to not the fact

1113
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:18.079
<v Speaker 1>that they're having this prejudice thrown their way? Why is

1114
01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:20.679
<v Speaker 1>that not the important part of this rather than what

1115
01:04:20.800 --> 01:04:24.599
<v Speaker 1>we call it? Is it not? What? What?

1116
01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:24.840
<v Speaker 2>What?

1117
01:04:25.039 --> 01:04:25.559
<v Speaker 3>What? Are you as?

1118
01:04:26.920 --> 01:04:30.639
<v Speaker 2>The unfair prejudice, The unfair prejudice against a group of

1119
01:04:30.679 --> 01:04:34.320
<v Speaker 2>people based solely on one aspect of their life. That's

1120
01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:37.920
<v Speaker 2>what we're talking about here, The unfair prejudice against a

1121
01:04:37.960 --> 01:04:38.559
<v Speaker 2>group of people.

1122
01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:41.599
<v Speaker 3>And that's what I'm asking exactly when when when we

1123
01:04:41.800 --> 01:04:45.760
<v Speaker 3>call it Islamic phobia and we're associating that with a

1124
01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:49.440
<v Speaker 3>group of Muslim people, we are associating them with the

1125
01:04:49.639 --> 01:04:52.440
<v Speaker 3>religion that they practice and not the group of people

1126
01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:54.880
<v Speaker 3>that they are. So that's why, that's why I'm saying

1127
01:04:54.920 --> 01:04:59.159
<v Speaker 3>that Islamic phobia is already kind of a racist term.

1128
01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:05.280
<v Speaker 1>What the difference if we call it Muslim phobia? Because

1129
01:05:05.360 --> 01:05:09.119
<v Speaker 1>the thing that is the active ingredients, if you like,

1130
01:05:09.639 --> 01:05:12.719
<v Speaker 1>of what is happening is the same regardless of what

1131
01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:17.480
<v Speaker 1>we call it. Islamic phobia, Muslim phobia, people who wear

1132
01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:21.119
<v Speaker 1>things on the head phobia, people who wear sandals in

1133
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:24.400
<v Speaker 1>the desert phobia, people who choose not to drink alcohol

1134
01:05:24.559 --> 01:05:28.880
<v Speaker 1>because some big bad God says it phobia. It doesn't

1135
01:05:28.960 --> 01:05:31.719
<v Speaker 1>matter what we call it. The important part is that

1136
01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:36.679
<v Speaker 1>there is this phobia taking place. That is the important

1137
01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:39.320
<v Speaker 1>part of it. And this is what I think you're

1138
01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:43.360
<v Speaker 1>kind of missing. You're brushing this very very important part

1139
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:46.119
<v Speaker 1>aside to say, well, why are we calling it this

1140
01:05:46.280 --> 01:05:48.840
<v Speaker 1>instead of this? Well, who fucking cares what we call it.

1141
01:05:49.159 --> 01:05:52.400
<v Speaker 1>Let's address the actual issue. The actual issue at hand

1142
01:05:52.840 --> 01:05:56.280
<v Speaker 1>is that these people have been treated unfairly because of

1143
01:05:57.320 --> 01:06:00.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, and you know this isn't defender Muslim This

1144
01:06:00.920 --> 01:06:03.320
<v Speaker 1>is talk key then, but you know, when we get

1145
01:06:03.400 --> 01:06:06.000
<v Speaker 1>calls like this, I feel is very very important to say,

1146
01:06:06.360 --> 01:06:10.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, we shouldn't be, you know, mistreating people unfairly,

1147
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:15.400
<v Speaker 1>being unfairly prejudiced against people because of an aspect of

1148
01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:18.840
<v Speaker 1>their lives in which they choose to identify. And it

1149
01:06:19.039 --> 01:06:21.679
<v Speaker 1>can go across the board. It doesn't have to be

1150
01:06:22.119 --> 01:06:26.239
<v Speaker 1>a religious person. We can pluck any any person out

1151
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:29.320
<v Speaker 1>of any minority group and say, well, this person is

1152
01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:32.360
<v Speaker 1>being unfairly treated because of this aspect of their life.

1153
01:06:32.719 --> 01:06:36.480
<v Speaker 1>What we call it is largely irrelevant that we address that.

1154
01:06:36.719 --> 01:06:40.119
<v Speaker 1>Unfairness is the important part. It's what John's trying to

1155
01:06:40.159 --> 01:06:42.159
<v Speaker 1>get across to you. It's what I'm trying to get

1156
01:06:42.159 --> 01:06:43.880
<v Speaker 1>across to you, and you've seem hung up on what

1157
01:06:44.039 --> 01:06:47.519
<v Speaker 1>it's called rather than the action of this unfair treatment.

1158
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:48.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1159
01:06:48.719 --> 01:06:50.280
<v Speaker 2>You know, Stephen, I feel like you're trying to play

1160
01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:52.360
<v Speaker 2>an Uno reverse cord and it's just not working out

1161
01:06:52.440 --> 01:06:54.400
<v Speaker 2>for you here because I feel like what you're trying

1162
01:06:54.440 --> 01:06:56.559
<v Speaker 2>to do is trying to be like, oh, people that

1163
01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:01.719
<v Speaker 2>claim that others are islamophobic, are being racist themselves, and

1164
01:07:02.599 --> 01:07:05.320
<v Speaker 2>that just doesn't make a whole hell of a lot

1165
01:07:05.360 --> 01:07:08.920
<v Speaker 2>of sense to me. I feel like you're getting lost,

1166
01:07:09.320 --> 01:07:12.840
<v Speaker 2>like like Richard was saying, I feel like you're kind

1167
01:07:12.840 --> 01:07:15.559
<v Speaker 2>of getting lost in terminology here, and you're not really

1168
01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:21.559
<v Speaker 2>focusing on the irrational generalizations that occur. Because like if you,

1169
01:07:22.039 --> 01:07:25.320
<v Speaker 2>let's say, if we can run through this real quick there, Steven,

1170
01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:28.280
<v Speaker 2>if you meet a person who says that they are

1171
01:07:28.360 --> 01:07:32.000
<v Speaker 2>a Muslim and their name is Mohammad, do you automatically

1172
01:07:32.119 --> 01:07:35.480
<v Speaker 2>think that they have like a bomb or something like?

1173
01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Is that something that you would naturally think?

1174
01:07:38.400 --> 01:07:40.960
<v Speaker 3>No, I don't think that, And I think you're irrationally

1175
01:07:41.400 --> 01:07:42.119
<v Speaker 3>group No.

1176
01:07:42.239 --> 01:07:48.400
<v Speaker 2>No, awesome, So you you do not adhere to islamophobic tendencies.

1177
01:07:48.840 --> 01:07:52.039
<v Speaker 2>I commend you for that. It would be islamophobic for

1178
01:07:52.119 --> 01:07:54.760
<v Speaker 2>you to automatically think that that person is on the

1179
01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:58.679
<v Speaker 2>way to commit a jihad or something. That would be islamophobia.

1180
01:07:59.119 --> 01:08:01.440
<v Speaker 2>But if you meet a person who is a Muslim

1181
01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:03.960
<v Speaker 2>and be like, oh, okay, well, I don't believe in

1182
01:08:04.239 --> 01:08:06.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, your particular religion. I'm not part of your

1183
01:08:06.639 --> 01:08:10.000
<v Speaker 2>particular religion. Just don't believe in that do you understand

1184
01:08:10.119 --> 01:08:13.239
<v Speaker 2>the stark contrast that I've kind of highlighted here in

1185
01:08:13.639 --> 01:08:16.840
<v Speaker 2>in in you know, one way is islamophobic, the other

1186
01:08:16.920 --> 01:08:18.880
<v Speaker 2>way is not. Do you understand the difference.

1187
01:08:18.960 --> 01:08:20.680
<v Speaker 3>I think you're a fo.

1188
01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you don't seed insult people because you have ship arguments.

1189
01:08:32.960 --> 01:08:36.199
<v Speaker 2>Hey, listen, my name is fat fuck. Now okay, that's

1190
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:36.680
<v Speaker 2>my name.

1191
01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:43.680
<v Speaker 1>I apologize for that godless engineer a welcome guest on

1192
01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:48.960
<v Speaker 1>our show. I do not calm doone anyone calling any

1193
01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:52.039
<v Speaker 1>of the guests on this show such names, you pee

1194
01:08:52.159 --> 01:08:53.760
<v Speaker 1>self shades. Please, don't have a.

1195
01:08:57.439 --> 01:08:57.600
<v Speaker 5>Right.

1196
01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:01.199
<v Speaker 2>You know, you know, you know you've always gotten the

1197
01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:03.680
<v Speaker 2>upper hand in the conversation when they have to break

1198
01:09:03.760 --> 01:09:07.199
<v Speaker 2>down and be like, I think you're a fat fuck. Okay,

1199
01:09:07.319 --> 01:09:09.359
<v Speaker 2>that has nothing to do with what we were talking about.

1200
01:09:09.479 --> 01:09:10.279
<v Speaker 2>But by.

1201
01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:16.279
<v Speaker 1>Moving on, I'm going to take Oh shall I take?

1202
01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:18.199
<v Speaker 1>Shall I do it? Shall I do it? Shall I

1203
01:09:18.319 --> 01:09:18.520
<v Speaker 1>do it?

1204
01:09:18.880 --> 01:09:18.920
<v Speaker 4>No?

1205
01:09:19.119 --> 01:09:22.479
<v Speaker 1>They can wait. I'm going to take comma from Ken Tuke.

1206
01:09:23.279 --> 01:09:28.279
<v Speaker 1>What's the point of debating free zopes? Asks Conna Comma.

1207
01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:35.840
<v Speaker 6>So yeah, I'm there, Yeah, Oh yeah, I'm here. I

1208
01:09:36.119 --> 01:09:40.680
<v Speaker 6>guess I wanted to ask why hmm, okay, sorry, let

1209
01:09:40.720 --> 01:09:42.640
<v Speaker 6>me figure out how to phrase this. I've watched a

1210
01:09:42.720 --> 01:09:46.079
<v Speaker 6>lot of videos from various sorts of like talk, even

1211
01:09:47.439 --> 01:09:50.960
<v Speaker 6>a experience, you know, the whole shebang. And the thing

1212
01:09:51.000 --> 01:09:53.720
<v Speaker 6>I always get is, you know, we get people on

1213
01:09:53.880 --> 01:10:00.920
<v Speaker 6>here who have the presuppositionalist you can't have without God.

1214
01:10:01.399 --> 01:10:05.520
<v Speaker 6>And it always strikes me as odd to even continue

1215
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:09.520
<v Speaker 6>the conversation past like three minutes because and I'm sorry,

1216
01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:12.960
<v Speaker 6>I'm autistic. So maybe I'm just like missing a social

1217
01:10:13.039 --> 01:10:16.239
<v Speaker 6>cu somewhere. But is it not just axiology? Is it

1218
01:10:16.359 --> 01:10:18.600
<v Speaker 6>not just you have all the same axioms as me,

1219
01:10:19.079 --> 01:10:22.840
<v Speaker 6>but I have one more, which is God must exist.

1220
01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:25.600
<v Speaker 6>Like at that point, like you can't debate someone out

1221
01:10:25.600 --> 01:10:26.880
<v Speaker 6>of an axiom, right.

1222
01:10:27.159 --> 01:10:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to let let the

1223
01:10:29.720 --> 01:10:38.720
<v Speaker 1>folk take this, John, please take it away.

1224
01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Uh yeah, So I mean I actuld totally agree with

1225
01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:45.960
<v Speaker 2>that that, you know, if if you don't want to

1226
01:10:46.079 --> 01:10:49.079
<v Speaker 2>have conversations with preeze ups as soon as you identify

1227
01:10:49.159 --> 01:10:51.640
<v Speaker 2>them as a preeze up. I mean, I don't hold

1228
01:10:51.680 --> 01:10:53.760
<v Speaker 2>it against anybody to just throw their hands up and

1229
01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:55.960
<v Speaker 2>be like, okay, there's no point to have a conversation

1230
01:10:56.079 --> 01:10:59.880
<v Speaker 2>with you at all. But I typically like to have

1231
01:11:00.119 --> 01:11:04.159
<v Speaker 2>these kinds of conversations, and that's primarily just because I'm

1232
01:11:04.680 --> 01:11:08.399
<v Speaker 2>hoping to sort of pull them out of the precept

1233
01:11:08.479 --> 01:11:11.000
<v Speaker 2>mindset is what I generally want to try to do,

1234
01:11:11.640 --> 01:11:14.640
<v Speaker 2>and that's just by highlighting like the disconnection, you know,

1235
01:11:14.840 --> 01:11:17.640
<v Speaker 2>between you know, what they're hoping to prove and what's

1236
01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:21.520
<v Speaker 2>actually being proved in the conversation. Because you're right, they

1237
01:11:21.680 --> 01:11:24.000
<v Speaker 2>just have to tack on one more axiom. But I mean,

1238
01:11:24.279 --> 01:11:27.439
<v Speaker 2>as we understand from like Oukham's razor, the more ad

1239
01:11:27.520 --> 01:11:31.439
<v Speaker 2>hoc stuff that you have to tag tap onto or

1240
01:11:31.560 --> 01:11:35.680
<v Speaker 2>ta tack onto your argument, the weaker your argument becomes.

1241
01:11:36.159 --> 01:11:39.039
<v Speaker 2>And so I feel like highlighting that to them and

1242
01:11:39.119 --> 01:11:41.560
<v Speaker 2>being like, oh, well, that's just ad hoc stating that

1243
01:11:41.680 --> 01:11:44.319
<v Speaker 2>God is necessary for logic, or that's just ad hoc

1244
01:11:44.439 --> 01:11:46.840
<v Speaker 2>stating one thing or another and trying to get them

1245
01:11:46.880 --> 01:11:50.800
<v Speaker 2>to justify it. That either highlights that you know, they're

1246
01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:55.720
<v Speaker 2>they're dogmatically adhering to their position, or if they're actually

1247
01:11:55.880 --> 01:11:58.720
<v Speaker 2>trying to figure things out, and if they're actually trying

1248
01:11:58.760 --> 01:12:00.920
<v Speaker 2>to figure things out and they're just so happen to

1249
01:12:01.000 --> 01:12:03.920
<v Speaker 2>be convinced by this argument, maybe you can highlight the

1250
01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:06.399
<v Speaker 2>problems with the argument, and you know, maybe they can

1251
01:12:06.439 --> 01:12:09.439
<v Speaker 2>be become better for it, for the conversation that you

1252
01:12:09.520 --> 01:12:12.279
<v Speaker 2>have with them. But at the same time, I don't

1253
01:12:12.279 --> 01:12:15.520
<v Speaker 2>think that you should really stress yourself out over presuppositionalist

1254
01:12:16.239 --> 01:12:18.760
<v Speaker 2>because you can basically run the same script on them,

1255
01:12:18.800 --> 01:12:21.840
<v Speaker 2>because they always have the exact same script. And so

1256
01:12:22.039 --> 01:12:24.560
<v Speaker 2>like anytime you encounter one it, you know, you just

1257
01:12:24.720 --> 01:12:27.279
<v Speaker 2>run through the basic talking points and if they're still

1258
01:12:27.399 --> 01:12:30.079
<v Speaker 2>not you know, listening to you, or they're still adhering

1259
01:12:30.119 --> 01:12:33.079
<v Speaker 2>to it, then I mean I would say, just get

1260
01:12:33.119 --> 01:12:35.960
<v Speaker 2>out of the conversation, stop talking to them.

1261
01:12:36.359 --> 01:12:38.560
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, so I guess when I when I say that,

1262
01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:41.319
<v Speaker 6>like I personally myself take it a point to not

1263
01:12:42.199 --> 01:12:45.600
<v Speaker 6>talk to preseports for that exact reason. But I'll watch

1264
01:12:45.880 --> 01:12:47.600
<v Speaker 6>the show and I'll and I'll see and I'm not

1265
01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:49.880
<v Speaker 6>I've actually watched a little bit of you godless engineer.

1266
01:12:49.880 --> 01:12:52.000
<v Speaker 6>I don't think i've watched the other host. I'm not

1267
01:12:52.079 --> 01:12:55.479
<v Speaker 6>sure their name. I'm sorry, but I you know, I'll

1268
01:12:55.520 --> 01:12:58.399
<v Speaker 6>watch them and the videos will be like thirty minutes

1269
01:12:58.479 --> 01:13:01.680
<v Speaker 6>long or longer. And I guess I understand, like if

1270
01:13:01.720 --> 01:13:04.600
<v Speaker 6>someone's coming in and they feel like they've been partially convinced.

1271
01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:07.199
<v Speaker 6>But I guess like frequent callers, I can't think of

1272
01:13:07.600 --> 01:13:09.760
<v Speaker 6>any names on top of my head or whether that

1273
01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:11.840
<v Speaker 6>would be okay to name them. But just like you know,

1274
01:13:11.960 --> 01:13:15.359
<v Speaker 6>you get frequent callers like uh oh, like Darth Dawkins, you.

1275
01:13:15.359 --> 01:13:15.960
<v Speaker 1>Know, calls in.

1276
01:13:16.359 --> 01:13:18.399
<v Speaker 6>It's the saying of every single time, and.

1277
01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:19.800
<v Speaker 5>You know you're not You're not.

1278
01:13:20.439 --> 01:13:24.159
<v Speaker 6>You're not going to change your fucking mind. Yeah, look money,

1279
01:13:24.159 --> 01:13:24.600
<v Speaker 6>and I am.

1280
01:13:25.399 --> 01:13:27.960
<v Speaker 1>I think this now, I'm kidding. I have heard of him, unfortunately,

1281
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:33.039
<v Speaker 1>and I'm Richard. By the way, I think it's important,

1282
01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:36.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, on on the one hand, when when we're

1283
01:13:36.560 --> 01:13:38.800
<v Speaker 1>on a call and show, which is essentially what we're

1284
01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:41.640
<v Speaker 1>talking about here, or on the platform where you've got

1285
01:13:41.760 --> 01:13:46.520
<v Speaker 1>other people witnessing the conversation, I think it's very important

1286
01:13:46.640 --> 01:13:49.760
<v Speaker 1>to try and have those conversations if we can, if

1287
01:13:49.800 --> 01:13:54.039
<v Speaker 1>we're able to, because it highlights as godless engineers pointing

1288
01:13:54.079 --> 01:13:57.600
<v Speaker 1>out the flaws in their argument. And it doesn't matter

1289
01:13:57.800 --> 01:14:01.199
<v Speaker 1>because whether I disagree with you someone, it matters what

1290
01:14:01.439 --> 01:14:04.279
<v Speaker 1>other people who are you know, we were talking to

1291
01:14:04.359 --> 01:14:07.760
<v Speaker 1>an earlier caller about, you know, people from their own

1292
01:14:07.840 --> 01:14:10.359
<v Speaker 1>religion or from you know, when your people from a

1293
01:14:10.479 --> 01:14:15.359
<v Speaker 1>religious perspective have different opinion to other people within that

1294
01:14:15.520 --> 01:14:18.880
<v Speaker 1>same religion. And that's really important to bear in mind

1295
01:14:18.920 --> 01:14:21.560
<v Speaker 1>when we're doing these shows, is that when we get

1296
01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:25.079
<v Speaker 1>these callers that are throwing out really bad arguments, and

1297
01:14:25.520 --> 01:14:28.039
<v Speaker 1>we have a regular one on here who does it

1298
01:14:28.199 --> 01:14:31.359
<v Speaker 1>quite often, when we have callers who were throwing out

1299
01:14:31.399 --> 01:14:35.399
<v Speaker 1>these bad arguments, that there are other people from their

1300
01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:39.800
<v Speaker 1>religious background who are watching these shows and who are

1301
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:43.359
<v Speaker 1>listening to them, and when we challenge them, they get

1302
01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:46.640
<v Speaker 1>to listen to both sides of the story. And very often,

1303
01:14:46.760 --> 01:14:49.439
<v Speaker 1>and I know this for a fact because I have

1304
01:14:49.560 --> 01:14:52.079
<v Speaker 1>had these people contact me and tell me this. I

1305
01:14:52.359 --> 01:14:55.399
<v Speaker 1>you know, we get religious people saying thank you for

1306
01:14:55.520 --> 01:15:00.000
<v Speaker 1>breaking it down because that's actually given me a different perspective.

1307
01:15:00.600 --> 01:15:03.239
<v Speaker 1>You know, I would have been in the same shoes

1308
01:15:03.319 --> 01:15:05.520
<v Speaker 1>as this, you know, as that call and making these

1309
01:15:05.560 --> 01:15:09.000
<v Speaker 1>bad arguments, but having listened to both sides of the conversation,

1310
01:15:09.439 --> 01:15:11.760
<v Speaker 1>I've now got a different viewpoint to it. So I

1311
01:15:11.800 --> 01:15:13.840
<v Speaker 1>think it's important to bear that in mind that we

1312
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:16.640
<v Speaker 1>have an audience when we're doing it. Talking to freezeups

1313
01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:20.840
<v Speaker 1>in general, I think is difficult. It really really is,

1314
01:15:20.920 --> 01:15:23.560
<v Speaker 1>and I totally get where you're coming from, and it

1315
01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:28.000
<v Speaker 1>can seem pointless. If you come from the perspective of, well,

1316
01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:30.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to start with my worldview and you've got

1317
01:15:30.920 --> 01:15:34.880
<v Speaker 1>your worldview, these conversations can be non starters and you

1318
01:15:34.960 --> 01:15:37.239
<v Speaker 1>cannot be having a conversation for half an hour and

1319
01:15:37.359 --> 01:15:41.399
<v Speaker 1>get nowhere because you're constantly trying to say, well, these

1320
01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:45.159
<v Speaker 1>worldview against your worldview. And it's why these people always

1321
01:15:45.319 --> 01:15:49.199
<v Speaker 1>lead with worldview comparisons. You will notice that they always

1322
01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:52.800
<v Speaker 1>lead with worldview comparisons. And it's why when I have

1323
01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:55.560
<v Speaker 1>a conversation with them, what I try and do is

1324
01:15:55.680 --> 01:15:59.079
<v Speaker 1>break that down. And what I talk about is reality.

1325
01:15:59.479 --> 01:16:03.000
<v Speaker 1>What is real reality? What is a reality that we

1326
01:16:03.279 --> 01:16:07.720
<v Speaker 1>can agree on? Now, let's take that shared reality? Please,

1327
01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:09.079
<v Speaker 1>so and so.

1328
01:16:09.199 --> 01:16:11.079
<v Speaker 6>I feel but like the thing that always gets me

1329
01:16:11.159 --> 01:16:13.199
<v Speaker 6>and this is like that that right there is like

1330
01:16:13.439 --> 01:16:17.279
<v Speaker 6>That's often the approach that posts tend to take is like, well,

1331
01:16:17.399 --> 01:16:17.960
<v Speaker 6>what is real?

1332
01:16:18.039 --> 01:16:18.359
<v Speaker 3>What is not?

1333
01:16:18.560 --> 01:16:22.880
<v Speaker 6>And as far as I've noticed, uh, preshoppers always basically

1334
01:16:23.000 --> 01:16:25.560
<v Speaker 6>like if if they can't defend the reality, it always

1335
01:16:25.680 --> 01:16:27.720
<v Speaker 6>just goes back to the hard solipsism, like can you

1336
01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:29.359
<v Speaker 6>prove you're not a brain in a vat? And it's

1337
01:16:29.439 --> 01:16:32.479
<v Speaker 6>like like, well, no I can't, but like that doesn't

1338
01:16:32.520 --> 01:16:35.199
<v Speaker 6>mean that I suddenly have to assume this thing. And

1339
01:16:35.680 --> 01:16:36.960
<v Speaker 6>I did want to go back to one thing that

1340
01:16:37.199 --> 01:16:40.880
<v Speaker 6>uh a godless engineer mentioned was like, oh, Aukham's razor,

1341
01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:43.800
<v Speaker 6>you know the simplest thing. Well, Auckham's razor is a

1342
01:16:43.880 --> 01:16:44.840
<v Speaker 6>part of logic.

1343
01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:45.800
<v Speaker 4>And how do you know that?

1344
01:16:46.359 --> 01:16:49.920
<v Speaker 6>You know that, like auction, you can't use Aucaham's razor

1345
01:16:50.319 --> 01:16:53.520
<v Speaker 6>without God? Who is the thing that gives us Aucham's razor?

1346
01:16:53.600 --> 01:16:56.319
<v Speaker 6>And it's always like and the thing I notice is

1347
01:16:56.600 --> 01:16:58.920
<v Speaker 6>or at least the thing I never noticed, I never

1348
01:16:59.039 --> 01:17:03.800
<v Speaker 6>noticed to point out that, like, you know you are like, hey,

1349
01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:06.840
<v Speaker 6>you person who is the pre supper, you have all

1350
01:17:06.920 --> 01:17:09.279
<v Speaker 6>the same axioms as I do. You've just tacked on

1351
01:17:09.359 --> 01:17:09.960
<v Speaker 6>an axiom.

1352
01:17:10.600 --> 01:17:10.880
<v Speaker 9>You're not.

1353
01:17:11.439 --> 01:17:12.119
<v Speaker 5>It's not This.

1354
01:17:12.239 --> 01:17:14.960
<v Speaker 6>Axiom doesn't do anything for you. It doesn't give you

1355
01:17:15.000 --> 01:17:16.159
<v Speaker 6>any explanatory value.

1356
01:17:16.279 --> 01:17:18.680
<v Speaker 1>That is exactly what I was to go down the

1357
01:17:18.760 --> 01:17:22.520
<v Speaker 1>reality connor. That is exactly what I was going to say.

1358
01:17:23.760 --> 01:17:27.319
<v Speaker 1>When we talk about shared reality, I'm not talking about

1359
01:17:27.520 --> 01:17:31.239
<v Speaker 1>like when we do this, I'm trying to avoid this

1360
01:17:31.640 --> 01:17:35.079
<v Speaker 1>very thing of saying I have this axiomic belief and

1361
01:17:35.119 --> 01:17:38.680
<v Speaker 1>you have this axiomic belief in their different worldview comparisons.

1362
01:17:38.960 --> 01:17:41.239
<v Speaker 1>Let's start with the things that we agree on. This

1363
01:17:41.399 --> 01:17:43.880
<v Speaker 1>is what I mean by shared reality. So we start

1364
01:17:43.960 --> 01:17:46.960
<v Speaker 1>with the shared reality. We start with the things we

1365
01:17:47.119 --> 01:17:50.319
<v Speaker 1>do agree on, we do have axiomic beliefs on that

1366
01:17:50.479 --> 01:17:55.680
<v Speaker 1>we agree exist in or as reality. And from there

1367
01:17:55.840 --> 01:17:58.479
<v Speaker 1>what we do is we then look at what John

1368
01:17:58.640 --> 01:18:03.880
<v Speaker 1>was saying, those extra suppositions, so those extra layers, So

1369
01:18:04.119 --> 01:18:07.079
<v Speaker 1>we agree on all of these things that exist that

1370
01:18:07.239 --> 01:18:10.520
<v Speaker 1>are real. This is our starting point. Now let's look

1371
01:18:10.640 --> 01:18:14.600
<v Speaker 1>at additional claims. Let's look at those additional claims, because

1372
01:18:14.680 --> 01:18:18.279
<v Speaker 1>what that does is it avoids falling back to this

1373
01:18:18.439 --> 01:18:21.199
<v Speaker 1>pre supposition, well God gives you this. Well, if we're

1374
01:18:21.199 --> 01:18:23.560
<v Speaker 1>going if you're just going to insist God gives you that,

1375
01:18:23.960 --> 01:18:26.840
<v Speaker 1>then we don't need to have this conversation at all.

1376
01:18:27.079 --> 01:18:29.399
<v Speaker 1>That it's pointless because we're going to be talking about

1377
01:18:29.479 --> 01:18:32.560
<v Speaker 1>nothing for half an hour. Goodbye. But let's talk about

1378
01:18:32.600 --> 01:18:34.760
<v Speaker 1>the things we do agree on. Let's talk about the

1379
01:18:34.840 --> 01:18:38.319
<v Speaker 1>things we do agree are real and build from there.

1380
01:18:38.720 --> 01:18:41.439
<v Speaker 1>That is, it's a really really important method and and

1381
01:18:41.720 --> 01:18:44.920
<v Speaker 1>I maybe condenting it too much to be like really

1382
01:18:45.039 --> 01:18:50.039
<v Speaker 1>understandable here because it's you know, I've I've really wrote

1383
01:18:50.079 --> 01:18:54.119
<v Speaker 1>a lot on this subject before, about subject to reality

1384
01:18:54.199 --> 01:18:57.079
<v Speaker 1>and all that kind of stuff. It's really really interesting,

1385
01:18:57.239 --> 01:18:59.119
<v Speaker 1>but it takes a lot to get through. But yeah,

1386
01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:02.119
<v Speaker 1>what we need to do in J Mike does it

1387
01:19:02.199 --> 01:19:05.239
<v Speaker 1>in a really really good way as well. J Mike says, Look,

1388
01:19:05.479 --> 01:19:08.079
<v Speaker 1>you're saying that this is our starting point, that God

1389
01:19:08.199 --> 01:19:11.119
<v Speaker 1>is our starting point, but how are you getting to God?

1390
01:19:11.399 --> 01:19:13.800
<v Speaker 1>And that's essentially what I'm saying. It's the same thing,

1391
01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:16.640
<v Speaker 1>it's just phrased in a different way. We have a

1392
01:19:16.680 --> 01:19:19.840
<v Speaker 1>shared reality, we agree with, we agree on, we agree

1393
01:19:19.880 --> 01:19:22.399
<v Speaker 1>all these things in reality real Let's look at those

1394
01:19:22.439 --> 01:19:25.840
<v Speaker 1>additional claims. And because what pre supposition that is do

1395
01:19:26.319 --> 01:19:30.800
<v Speaker 1>by definition is they pre suppose something exists, and they

1396
01:19:30.920 --> 01:19:34.800
<v Speaker 1>never ever show they're working out. They take it as axiomic.

1397
01:19:35.119 --> 01:19:39.119
<v Speaker 1>Now you need to show the working out, show your work.

1398
01:19:39.520 --> 01:19:42.239
<v Speaker 1>If you don't show your work, then there's no point

1399
01:19:42.319 --> 01:19:45.079
<v Speaker 1>in having the conversation. And it is so important to

1400
01:19:45.279 --> 01:19:48.920
<v Speaker 1>get that across. And it's why people like like dark

1401
01:19:49.000 --> 01:19:52.399
<v Speaker 1>Talkings or you mentioned earlier. I won't even entertain him.

1402
01:19:52.560 --> 01:19:55.520
<v Speaker 1>I have no interest in talking to that person. Whatsoever,

1403
01:19:56.119 --> 01:19:59.560
<v Speaker 1>because and he has tried to talk to me, but

1404
01:19:59.640 --> 01:20:01.720
<v Speaker 1>I'll just simply won't talk to him because he doesn't

1405
01:20:01.800 --> 01:20:04.760
<v Speaker 1>want a conversation. What he wants to do is throw

1406
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:08.319
<v Speaker 1>verbal garbage out and try and prove himself right. That's

1407
01:20:08.359 --> 01:20:10.640
<v Speaker 1>all he wants to do. I'm right, I'm right, I'm right,

1408
01:20:10.680 --> 01:20:13.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm right. Well, that's fantastic, Go and fucking suck on

1409
01:20:13.039 --> 01:20:15.720
<v Speaker 1>an orange. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in

1410
01:20:15.800 --> 01:20:19.760
<v Speaker 1>people who want genuine conversations, who want to explore these

1411
01:20:19.840 --> 01:20:23.960
<v Speaker 1>subjects genuinely. And you know, I've had great conversations. I've

1412
01:20:24.000 --> 01:20:27.720
<v Speaker 1>had conversations with people who have degrees in philosophy, you know,

1413
01:20:28.079 --> 01:20:32.880
<v Speaker 1>both online and my peers who are into this stuff,

1414
01:20:33.119 --> 01:20:37.960
<v Speaker 1>who are religious, and I've had fantastic, fantastic conversations because

1415
01:20:38.000 --> 01:20:41.760
<v Speaker 1>we're both interested in having an honest conversation. And if

1416
01:20:41.840 --> 01:20:44.119
<v Speaker 1>you want an honest conversation, whether you're a preet up

1417
01:20:44.199 --> 01:20:46.560
<v Speaker 1>or not, then we can talk about we can find

1418
01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:49.880
<v Speaker 1>common ground. But when you're talking to kind of online

1419
01:20:50.239 --> 01:20:54.800
<v Speaker 1>internet personality prease ups, you know, don't even bother, that's

1420
01:20:54.880 --> 01:20:59.560
<v Speaker 1>not even worth having that conversation. From my mind, Please respond,

1421
01:20:59.600 --> 01:21:01.960
<v Speaker 1>and then I'll John jump in, and I say, I.

1422
01:21:02.239 --> 01:21:04.520
<v Speaker 6>Suppose that's kind of the heart of what I was

1423
01:21:04.920 --> 01:21:09.039
<v Speaker 6>getting at, is like Dark Dawkins is the most obvious example.

1424
01:21:09.119 --> 01:21:11.960
<v Speaker 6>But it feels like, especially with like the talk shows

1425
01:21:12.000 --> 01:21:14.439
<v Speaker 6>and earlier you said like talk shows are mostly about

1426
01:21:14.439 --> 01:21:17.119
<v Speaker 6>the audience, which I of one hundred percent agree, It's

1427
01:21:17.319 --> 01:21:20.359
<v Speaker 6>just I guess I look at it as like, you know,

1428
01:21:20.960 --> 01:21:22.319
<v Speaker 6>like you said, you want to you want to take

1429
01:21:22.359 --> 01:21:24.319
<v Speaker 6>them down this path of let's let's see what we

1430
01:21:24.399 --> 01:21:26.680
<v Speaker 6>can hash out and what's real and like, what can

1431
01:21:26.760 --> 01:21:29.239
<v Speaker 6>we agree on. Let's not talk about the axiology bit

1432
01:21:29.319 --> 01:21:32.000
<v Speaker 6>of it because it's just whatever, Let's talk about what

1433
01:21:32.159 --> 01:21:34.720
<v Speaker 6>we agree on. But I feel like, at least for me,

1434
01:21:35.119 --> 01:21:36.960
<v Speaker 6>at the point where someone's calling into one of these

1435
01:21:36.960 --> 01:21:41.520
<v Speaker 6>shows with presuppositional apologetics instead of some other thing, they

1436
01:21:41.560 --> 01:21:43.600
<v Speaker 6>don't want to have a conversation about that. They they

1437
01:21:43.680 --> 01:21:45.680
<v Speaker 6>want to have the Dark Dawkins. I'm right, I'm right,

1438
01:21:45.720 --> 01:21:49.319
<v Speaker 6>I'm right. And I feel like like instead of taking

1439
01:21:49.439 --> 01:21:51.640
<v Speaker 6>thirty minutes to try to go down this lane of well,

1440
01:21:51.680 --> 01:21:53.640
<v Speaker 6>what do we agree on? What you know and then

1441
01:21:53.680 --> 01:21:56.560
<v Speaker 6>they're just like, oh, well, could you prove hard solidsism? No,

1442
01:21:56.760 --> 01:21:59.479
<v Speaker 6>we'll go suck an egg like why, Like, I guess

1443
01:21:59.520 --> 01:22:02.239
<v Speaker 6>it just feels like that thirty minute segment could be

1444
01:22:02.359 --> 01:22:04.359
<v Speaker 6>cut down to like a ten or even five minute

1445
01:22:04.359 --> 01:22:07.680
<v Speaker 6>segment of Okay, So like you have these actiums, I

1446
01:22:07.760 --> 01:22:10.319
<v Speaker 6>have these axioms. You just have an unproven axiom that

1447
01:22:10.399 --> 01:22:13.159
<v Speaker 6>you are saying is essential to all thought. And any

1448
01:22:13.239 --> 01:22:15.439
<v Speaker 6>time I bring up any of the other axioms, you

1449
01:22:15.640 --> 01:22:18.119
<v Speaker 6>just say, you can't have that axiom without this axiom.

1450
01:22:18.359 --> 01:22:21.640
<v Speaker 6>I disagree, you disagree. We're not going to get anywhere.

1451
01:22:22.119 --> 01:22:27.840
<v Speaker 1>For the difficulty is connor. The difficulty is that we

1452
01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:30.840
<v Speaker 1>all out we all start from axioms, all of us.

1453
01:22:31.119 --> 01:22:35.319
<v Speaker 1>Everybody starts from axioms, and it's very difficult just to

1454
01:22:35.520 --> 01:22:37.840
<v Speaker 1>You can't just kind of out of hand I don't

1455
01:22:37.880 --> 01:22:43.399
<v Speaker 1>think anyway dismiss out of hand and an axiom without

1456
01:22:43.600 --> 01:22:45.960
<v Speaker 1>challenging it. You can't just get kind of do that.

1457
01:22:46.239 --> 01:22:48.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, if someone's going to the hard solib sism thing,

1458
01:22:48.640 --> 01:22:50.800
<v Speaker 1>which they have to do if they are in the

1459
01:22:50.920 --> 01:22:53.199
<v Speaker 1>you know these kinds of people were talking about. You know,

1460
01:22:53.319 --> 01:22:54.880
<v Speaker 1>they'll say, well, how do you know you're not a

1461
01:22:54.960 --> 01:22:58.119
<v Speaker 1>brain in a A I don't but but and this

1462
01:22:58.279 --> 01:23:02.800
<v Speaker 1>is vitally important you share your opinion. That opinion with me.

1463
01:23:03.119 --> 01:23:06.199
<v Speaker 1>You don't think we're a braining avt either. And I

1464
01:23:06.479 --> 01:23:09.720
<v Speaker 1>know this for a fact because if you genuinely believed

1465
01:23:09.760 --> 01:23:12.239
<v Speaker 1>you were a braining of art, you wouldn't spend time

1466
01:23:12.399 --> 01:23:16.560
<v Speaker 1>eating or drinking or having stupid philosophical conversations with an

1467
01:23:16.640 --> 01:23:19.880
<v Speaker 1>aspect of yourself on a made up internet that is

1468
01:23:19.920 --> 01:23:23.319
<v Speaker 1>an aspect of yourself. So just fucking throw that out

1469
01:23:23.399 --> 01:23:26.680
<v Speaker 1>of the ballpark altogether. We don't need to talk about

1470
01:23:26.760 --> 01:23:30.000
<v Speaker 1>brain in vats because we're starting from a position, both

1471
01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:33.199
<v Speaker 1>of us that we exist. So let's talk about the

1472
01:23:33.359 --> 01:23:38.159
<v Speaker 1>reality that appears to be the case in which we exist.

1473
01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:40.520
<v Speaker 1>That is where we're starting from. And if you're going

1474
01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:43.199
<v Speaker 1>to come with, well what about you know, if we're

1475
01:23:43.239 --> 01:23:47.800
<v Speaker 1>all brains in vats, cooled, wonderful, You know you're contradicting

1476
01:23:48.119 --> 01:23:51.399
<v Speaker 1>your own belief if you genuinely believe that by having

1477
01:23:51.439 --> 01:23:55.479
<v Speaker 1>a conversation with an aspect of yourself, you know, what's

1478
01:23:55.520 --> 01:23:58.800
<v Speaker 1>the point You're wasting your time. I don't exist, so

1479
01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:01.359
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't matter to me, John, Do you want to

1480
01:24:01.439 --> 01:24:01.720
<v Speaker 1>jump in?

1481
01:24:02.920 --> 01:24:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So whenever I'm having a conversation like I typically

1482
01:24:08.000 --> 01:24:10.239
<v Speaker 2>won't have a conversation with a pre's up like on

1483
01:24:10.359 --> 01:24:12.560
<v Speaker 2>a private, you know, one on one kind of level.

1484
01:24:13.000 --> 01:24:15.279
<v Speaker 2>The only time that I would actually have a conversation

1485
01:24:15.399 --> 01:24:18.680
<v Speaker 2>with a pre sub is if it were like for

1486
01:24:18.840 --> 01:24:21.399
<v Speaker 2>some kind of content, either like a Collin Show or

1487
01:24:22.000 --> 01:24:24.760
<v Speaker 2>like on like a TikTok Live or something like that.

1488
01:24:25.319 --> 01:24:30.399
<v Speaker 2>But but that's because I know, I really value people

1489
01:24:30.520 --> 01:24:34.640
<v Speaker 2>that engage those types of arguments, and because then I

1490
01:24:34.720 --> 01:24:38.439
<v Speaker 2>can understand, you know, how to respond to those arguments

1491
01:24:38.560 --> 01:24:41.920
<v Speaker 2>or like why those arguments don't make sense or why

1492
01:24:41.960 --> 01:24:44.840
<v Speaker 2>they shouldn't make sense, and so like that just gives

1493
01:24:44.920 --> 01:24:49.880
<v Speaker 2>me the ability to actually understand, you know, why I'm

1494
01:24:49.920 --> 01:24:52.359
<v Speaker 2>not convinced by those arguments or why I should be

1495
01:24:52.479 --> 01:24:54.640
<v Speaker 2>convinced by those arguments. So, I mean, that's where the

1496
01:24:54.720 --> 01:24:58.199
<v Speaker 2>value that I see it coming in at is the

1497
01:24:58.920 --> 01:25:02.720
<v Speaker 2>diving deep into the conversations, even with pre suppositionalists that

1498
01:25:03.119 --> 01:25:06.479
<v Speaker 2>might get you into a certain area of argumentation that

1499
01:25:06.640 --> 01:25:10.239
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people either are encountering and they need

1500
01:25:10.319 --> 01:25:12.800
<v Speaker 2>to know how to respond to it, or they haven't

1501
01:25:12.880 --> 01:25:15.000
<v Speaker 2>encountered it yet and they may need to know about

1502
01:25:15.039 --> 01:25:17.800
<v Speaker 2>it in the future. I just feel like it's it's

1503
01:25:17.880 --> 01:25:21.880
<v Speaker 2>a great way to arm people that are watching your

1504
01:25:21.920 --> 01:25:26.680
<v Speaker 2>content because they genuinely want to understand, like why theists

1505
01:25:26.800 --> 01:25:29.279
<v Speaker 2>are wrong about these things, or why one side is

1506
01:25:29.319 --> 01:25:31.479
<v Speaker 2>wrong and the other side is right. So that's where

1507
01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:34.239
<v Speaker 2>I kind of focus my conversation, or at least the

1508
01:25:34.399 --> 01:25:38.159
<v Speaker 2>value of the conversation at And I do want.

1509
01:25:38.000 --> 01:25:41.279
<v Speaker 6>To say I'm not like, I'm not dismissing their axiom.

1510
01:25:41.319 --> 01:25:43.800
<v Speaker 6>I'm not saying like your axiom is just wrong or

1511
01:25:43.840 --> 01:25:46.319
<v Speaker 6>saying like you can't have that axiom, because that's basically

1512
01:25:46.359 --> 01:25:49.119
<v Speaker 6>what they're saying, you can't have the non axiom of

1513
01:25:49.399 --> 01:25:50.960
<v Speaker 6>my god. I'm not I don't want to say that

1514
01:25:51.039 --> 01:25:53.920
<v Speaker 6>I'm like dismissing their axiom. It's more so it feels

1515
01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:56.800
<v Speaker 6>like not enough focus is not enough of the spotlight

1516
01:25:56.920 --> 01:25:58.640
<v Speaker 6>is put on the fact that that is what the

1517
01:25:58.800 --> 01:26:01.439
<v Speaker 6>argument is. It is I have an extra axiom that

1518
01:26:01.560 --> 01:26:03.720
<v Speaker 6>you do not have. You have to have that axiom,

1519
01:26:03.960 --> 01:26:08.640
<v Speaker 6>And it's it's like I feel like, like, I agree,

1520
01:26:08.760 --> 01:26:13.239
<v Speaker 6>like learning to combat these people is sorry combat that

1521
01:26:13.359 --> 01:26:17.239
<v Speaker 6>liked that idea is important, But I feel like the

1522
01:26:17.720 --> 01:26:20.239
<v Speaker 6>I guess, for me, uh, the way I look at it,

1523
01:26:20.359 --> 01:26:22.279
<v Speaker 6>the best way to go about that would be, like,

1524
01:26:22.680 --> 01:26:24.920
<v Speaker 6>you know, you know, you shine the spotlight on what

1525
01:26:25.079 --> 01:26:27.880
<v Speaker 6>it is. It is just an extra axiom. It is

1526
01:26:28.039 --> 01:26:30.840
<v Speaker 6>playing tag. But you are always it. I'm never it.

1527
01:26:31.039 --> 01:26:33.199
<v Speaker 6>If you touch me, I touched you back, you didn't

1528
01:26:33.239 --> 01:26:35.800
<v Speaker 6>feel it, but you're it. It's like, I'm not saying

1529
01:26:35.840 --> 01:26:36.960
<v Speaker 6>that that axiom is wrong.

1530
01:26:37.359 --> 01:26:38.159
<v Speaker 8>It's not wrong.

1531
01:26:38.119 --> 01:26:41.600
<v Speaker 6>Necessarily to say all this stuff, but that they're saying.

1532
01:26:42.000 --> 01:26:43.439
<v Speaker 6>And it makes sense in.

1533
01:26:44.239 --> 01:26:48.960
<v Speaker 5>A way, not really, but in a way, but it's not.

1534
01:26:50.479 --> 01:26:54.239
<v Speaker 6>I guess the the the the lesson to the people

1535
01:26:54.279 --> 01:26:54.840
<v Speaker 6>who watch it.

1536
01:26:55.520 --> 01:26:57.279
<v Speaker 8>As far as I'm considered.

1537
01:26:56.880 --> 01:26:59.600
<v Speaker 6>Barely reason those videos are thirty but it's longer as

1538
01:26:59.680 --> 01:27:05.680
<v Speaker 6>a war to anybody else, that's fair.

1539
01:27:05.800 --> 01:27:08.079
<v Speaker 1>That's fair enough. And look, I think I'm gonna have

1540
01:27:08.079 --> 01:27:09.319
<v Speaker 1>to let you go in a miniges. We do have

1541
01:27:09.399 --> 01:27:10.760
<v Speaker 1>more calls we have to get to, and we are

1542
01:27:10.800 --> 01:27:11.640
<v Speaker 1>already over time.

1543
01:27:12.760 --> 01:27:13.279
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely.

1544
01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:17.640
<v Speaker 1>The thing is this. Look, if in all honesty, if

1545
01:27:17.880 --> 01:27:21.159
<v Speaker 1>I didn't do this as something that I do in

1546
01:27:21.279 --> 01:27:23.840
<v Speaker 1>day to day life, I probably wouldn't talk to pres

1547
01:27:23.920 --> 01:27:27.399
<v Speaker 1>ups either. And you know, sometimes you have to grab

1548
01:27:27.520 --> 01:27:30.680
<v Speaker 1>the bull by the horns. And I think up so

1549
01:27:31.760 --> 01:27:35.359
<v Speaker 1>those sets of people that they thrive on being in

1550
01:27:35.479 --> 01:27:38.159
<v Speaker 1>control of the call and if you're going to talk

1551
01:27:38.279 --> 01:27:41.000
<v Speaker 1>to them, don't let them control the call, don't let

1552
01:27:41.039 --> 01:27:43.760
<v Speaker 1>them control the conversation. Say to them, look, we're going

1553
01:27:43.840 --> 01:27:45.560
<v Speaker 1>we're going to put this aside, and we're going to

1554
01:27:45.600 --> 01:27:47.760
<v Speaker 1>put this aside, and we're going to put this aside,

1555
01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:50.560
<v Speaker 1>so there's no point even going there. If we're going

1556
01:27:50.600 --> 01:27:53.520
<v Speaker 1>to have the conversation, we're going to have it honestly,

1557
01:27:53.840 --> 01:27:56.600
<v Speaker 1>and we're going to have it in on an even keel.

1558
01:27:56.840 --> 01:28:02.800
<v Speaker 1>And I think most genuine pre so genuine like academic presups,

1559
01:28:03.039 --> 01:28:05.319
<v Speaker 1>the people I tend to talk to one this stuff,

1560
01:28:05.479 --> 01:28:08.520
<v Speaker 1>are absolutely fine with that. It's like I say, it's

1561
01:28:08.600 --> 01:28:12.159
<v Speaker 1>the internet celebrity ones that want to make a name

1562
01:28:12.239 --> 01:28:15.680
<v Speaker 1>for themselves by you know, taking down the atheists that

1563
01:28:15.880 --> 01:28:19.319
<v Speaker 1>on and fuck those guys anyway. Who cares what they

1564
01:28:19.399 --> 01:28:22.960
<v Speaker 1>think because I don't. And on that note, thanks Connor

1565
01:28:22.960 --> 01:28:24.319
<v Speaker 1>for your call. I am going to let you go.

1566
01:28:24.920 --> 01:28:27.640
<v Speaker 1>We do have other callers I'm going to take, but

1567
01:28:27.760 --> 01:28:31.439
<v Speaker 1>we do have another super chat. Did you do where

1568
01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:35.279
<v Speaker 1>our we? Oh? We are getting there through six six six,

1569
01:28:35.479 --> 01:28:38.239
<v Speaker 1>A member for one year sent ten dollars and says,

1570
01:28:38.319 --> 01:28:42.680
<v Speaker 1>when does a human life logically begin at conception or

1571
01:28:42.840 --> 01:28:47.600
<v Speaker 1>at first breathing interesting question. Give the show a call

1572
01:28:47.720 --> 01:28:52.239
<v Speaker 1>next week and let's have the conversation. Jimmie Julia member

1573
01:28:52.359 --> 01:28:56.319
<v Speaker 1>six months, four ninety nine. Thank you, Jimmy says, Hey

1574
01:28:56.439 --> 01:29:01.399
<v Speaker 1>Richard and hey fat fuck with a pH. I apologize

1575
01:29:01.439 --> 01:29:05.439
<v Speaker 1>godless engineer. If people start calling you a do it

1576
01:29:06.880 --> 01:29:09.800
<v Speaker 1>please it says, please spell it with a pH. If

1577
01:29:09.840 --> 01:29:13.359
<v Speaker 1>you do, in fact change your name, that would be sick. Heyl,

1578
01:29:13.479 --> 01:29:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Satan and Nero sent ten dollars and says Boltzmann Brain's

1579
01:29:18.039 --> 01:29:22.720
<v Speaker 1>total solidism or just part trick hypotheticals of their respective fields,

1580
01:29:22.920 --> 01:29:26.920
<v Speaker 1>the conclusions necessity that the logical foundations they are built

1581
01:29:27.000 --> 01:29:31.560
<v Speaker 1>upon are assumed and worthless. We are five out of

1582
01:29:31.680 --> 01:29:34.359
<v Speaker 1>ten for the superchat challenge people. If you want to

1583
01:29:34.399 --> 01:29:37.880
<v Speaker 1>see John challenge Jesus through his puppet, we need five

1584
01:29:38.079 --> 01:29:41.920
<v Speaker 1>more ten dollars superchats, just saying let's have a look

1585
01:29:42.039 --> 01:29:45.720
<v Speaker 1>we have. I'm going to take Troy next. We do

1586
01:29:45.920 --> 01:29:47.720
<v Speaker 1>have two calls left. I'm going to try and get

1587
01:29:47.760 --> 01:29:50.520
<v Speaker 1>to both of them. So stay on the line, and

1588
01:29:50.640 --> 01:29:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Troy wants to know if the hello, to tell us

1589
01:29:54.880 --> 01:29:56.000
<v Speaker 1>what you want to talk about.

1590
01:29:56.960 --> 01:30:00.199
<v Speaker 5>Hi, I was just wanting to talk about the end

1591
01:30:00.279 --> 01:30:04.960
<v Speaker 5>times prophecies. I grew up a Presbyterian, and I knew

1592
01:30:05.039 --> 01:30:08.760
<v Speaker 5>some JW's and some Pentecostals. But I've met my first

1593
01:30:09.119 --> 01:30:13.439
<v Speaker 5>real life Seventh Day Adventist not very long ago, and

1594
01:30:14.800 --> 01:30:20.000
<v Speaker 5>I understand, like Jehovah's witnesses eschatology, but the Seventh Day

1595
01:30:20.039 --> 01:30:23.640
<v Speaker 5>Adventist guys seem to think that they're just like the

1596
01:30:23.720 --> 01:30:26.359
<v Speaker 5>world's going to end, like later this week or maybe

1597
01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:31.640
<v Speaker 5>before dinner. And I just wanted to know where. I mean,

1598
01:30:31.720 --> 01:30:34.840
<v Speaker 5>I understand what JW's. It's the governing body. They tell

1599
01:30:34.880 --> 01:30:37.279
<v Speaker 5>you what it is, and that's what it is. But

1600
01:30:37.680 --> 01:30:42.600
<v Speaker 5>where the Seventh day Adventists are technically a Protestant thing,

1601
01:30:42.800 --> 01:30:47.000
<v Speaker 5>and they're like the twelfth biggest Protestant faction in America.

1602
01:30:47.760 --> 01:30:50.720
<v Speaker 5>So where do they get the eschatology that, like, you know,

1603
01:30:52.000 --> 01:30:57.640
<v Speaker 5>me reading the Bible as a Protestant, I'm thinking Jesus

1604
01:30:57.760 --> 01:31:00.199
<v Speaker 5>never came into the apostles lifetimes that he said was

1605
01:31:00.239 --> 01:31:03.119
<v Speaker 5>going to so two thousand years later, I'm not really

1606
01:31:03.159 --> 01:31:08.319
<v Speaker 5>holding my breath. Well, yeah, so it's this, It's going

1607
01:31:08.359 --> 01:31:08.800
<v Speaker 5>to be over.

1608
01:31:09.880 --> 01:31:13.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm not exactly sure where they're getting this from.

1609
01:31:14.840 --> 01:31:16.840
<v Speaker 2>The only thing that I can think of is that, like,

1610
01:31:17.359 --> 01:31:19.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, they're really hanging up on the whole we

1611
01:31:19.680 --> 01:31:22.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know the time, the day, or the hour in

1612
01:31:22.640 --> 01:31:25.520
<v Speaker 2>which you know it's going to come, or you know

1613
01:31:25.600 --> 01:31:27.119
<v Speaker 2>it's going to come like a thief in the night

1614
01:31:27.199 --> 01:31:29.439
<v Speaker 2>and all this other stuff. So I don't know if

1615
01:31:29.479 --> 01:31:32.760
<v Speaker 2>it's just preparing or just like preparing them to think, oh,

1616
01:31:33.079 --> 01:31:35.239
<v Speaker 2>it could be anytime, it could be later this week,

1617
01:31:35.920 --> 01:31:40.159
<v Speaker 2>just like it's definitely portrayed as an immediate thing like

1618
01:31:40.279 --> 01:31:43.920
<v Speaker 2>in the Bible, And so I think that for their purposes,

1619
01:31:44.119 --> 01:31:47.600
<v Speaker 2>like always acting like it is upon them, like it

1620
01:31:47.680 --> 01:31:50.680
<v Speaker 2>could happen directly after dinner, it could happen later this week,

1621
01:31:50.760 --> 01:31:53.720
<v Speaker 2>it could happen next year. Like it just throws a

1622
01:31:53.760 --> 01:31:57.159
<v Speaker 2>bit of uncertainty into the mix. And I feel like

1623
01:31:57.319 --> 01:32:00.479
<v Speaker 2>that's part of the whole fear mongering thing, trying to

1624
01:32:00.600 --> 01:32:02.680
<v Speaker 2>get people to fear it so that they you know,

1625
01:32:02.960 --> 01:32:04.680
<v Speaker 2>clean and hold on to the faith.

1626
01:32:04.560 --> 01:32:06.239
<v Speaker 5>Better terror management theory.

1627
01:32:08.840 --> 01:32:10.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it sounds right.

1628
01:32:11.239 --> 01:32:14.039
<v Speaker 5>It's really interesting to me because I know Forrest talks

1629
01:32:14.039 --> 01:32:17.359
<v Speaker 5>about that all the time, where people read about this

1630
01:32:17.399 --> 01:32:20.520
<v Speaker 5>stuff in the book and then they have to figure

1631
01:32:20.520 --> 01:32:24.439
<v Speaker 5>out how to score that circle with the life of

1632
01:32:24.520 --> 01:32:27.560
<v Speaker 5>living today. But I mean, how many generations are going

1633
01:32:27.640 --> 01:32:30.199
<v Speaker 5>to go by where it's like, stay alive till sixty

1634
01:32:30.279 --> 01:32:33.640
<v Speaker 5>five before everyone's like, you know what if Jesus comes back,

1635
01:32:33.680 --> 01:32:36.800
<v Speaker 5>that it'd be great. But I'm not holding their breath anymore.

1636
01:32:38.439 --> 01:32:41.920
<v Speaker 1>How many people have predicted it to zoo of commen,

1637
01:32:42.560 --> 01:32:46.479
<v Speaker 1>the time has been and gone, nothing's happened. Eschatology literally

1638
01:32:46.600 --> 01:32:49.880
<v Speaker 1>means the study of the last that's got the kind

1639
01:32:49.920 --> 01:32:54.199
<v Speaker 1>of the literal translation from the Greek. And it's amazing

1640
01:32:54.720 --> 01:32:58.159
<v Speaker 1>how many of these people who profess the end times

1641
01:32:59.479 --> 01:33:03.479
<v Speaker 1>don't actually seems to have done any study whatsoever. One

1642
01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:07.279
<v Speaker 1>thing I see and challenge a lot, especially on that

1643
01:33:07.479 --> 01:33:14.600
<v Speaker 1>wonderful social media platform called TikTok is this which if

1644
01:33:14.640 --> 01:33:17.119
<v Speaker 1>you want, if it is like a kind of a

1645
01:33:17.319 --> 01:33:21.279
<v Speaker 1>shitty ladder rung above X, is you get this kind

1646
01:33:21.359 --> 01:33:28.479
<v Speaker 1>of this idea that you get all these videos made

1647
01:33:28.560 --> 01:33:31.520
<v Speaker 1>saying Jesus is coming and this is important part, Jesus

1648
01:33:31.720 --> 01:33:36.119
<v Speaker 1>is coming back soon. And I always ask the same

1649
01:33:36.279 --> 01:33:39.199
<v Speaker 1>question when I see that, what do you mean by soon?

1650
01:33:39.479 --> 01:33:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Because when you're saying the word soon, you are talking

1651
01:33:43.239 --> 01:33:48.359
<v Speaker 1>as if you have a quantified period in mind and

1652
01:33:48.920 --> 01:33:53.680
<v Speaker 1>without exception when I have asked this question without exception.

1653
01:33:54.119 --> 01:33:57.640
<v Speaker 1>If I do get an answer, the answer is, well,

1654
01:33:57.760 --> 01:34:00.399
<v Speaker 1>we don't know the exact day and the time. We're

1655
01:34:00.399 --> 01:34:02.159
<v Speaker 1>told that we're not to know. So why the fuck

1656
01:34:02.199 --> 01:34:04.960
<v Speaker 1>are you using soon? Then? Why why are you using

1657
01:34:05.199 --> 01:34:10.159
<v Speaker 1>that word? Because that gives soon's very indication of a quantity,

1658
01:34:10.399 --> 01:34:11.600
<v Speaker 1>So we go on, please.

1659
01:34:11.880 --> 01:34:15.359
<v Speaker 5>I'm sorry, soon just seems very disingenuous. I'm currently sitting

1660
01:34:15.399 --> 01:34:18.439
<v Speaker 5>here with a copy of the New World Translation Jehovah's

1661
01:34:18.439 --> 01:34:22.039
<v Speaker 5>Witness Bible, right, and was tell me all about what

1662
01:34:22.279 --> 01:34:27.159
<v Speaker 5>was going on in uh Mesopotamia in two thousand years ago.

1663
01:34:28.039 --> 01:34:31.439
<v Speaker 5>I've got a whole Hebrew calendar here, and Jesus is

1664
01:34:31.479 --> 01:34:33.800
<v Speaker 5>still right around the corner. And I just don't get it, Like,

1665
01:34:34.039 --> 01:34:37.199
<v Speaker 5>is there really? I mean, you have Seven day Adventists,

1666
01:34:37.279 --> 01:34:42.600
<v Speaker 5>you have Jova's Witnesses, you have some flavors of Pentecostal

1667
01:34:42.880 --> 01:34:47.479
<v Speaker 5>and some flavors of like these new charismatic uh you know,

1668
01:34:47.680 --> 01:34:52.640
<v Speaker 5>prophecy churches. Like how many times can you count the

1669
01:34:53.079 --> 01:34:56.680
<v Speaker 5>hits and not the missus? I mean, like how many times?

1670
01:34:57.520 --> 01:35:00.600
<v Speaker 5>I just don't understand. I wonder, I wonder if there

1671
01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:03.039
<v Speaker 5>was a Bible a verse in a chapter and verse

1672
01:35:03.119 --> 01:35:05.279
<v Speaker 5>it's like, Yep, this is when it's gonna happen. Other

1673
01:35:05.439 --> 01:35:08.600
<v Speaker 5>than the whole I'll be back before you're dead thing

1674
01:35:08.680 --> 01:35:10.239
<v Speaker 5>that you said, Yeah.

1675
01:35:10.199 --> 01:35:15.479
<v Speaker 2>No, you know it's everything there has has uh pretty

1676
01:35:15.560 --> 01:35:18.760
<v Speaker 2>much just been like very you know, we don't know

1677
01:35:18.800 --> 01:35:21.159
<v Speaker 2>when it's going to happen, like it not even not

1678
01:35:21.239 --> 01:35:24.000
<v Speaker 2>even Jesus knows the day, and even he's supposed to be,

1679
01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:27.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, all knowing and everything about it.

1680
01:35:27.960 --> 01:35:28.079
<v Speaker 9>Uh.

1681
01:35:28.560 --> 01:35:31.199
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, the Bible doesn't give specific dates. But I

1682
01:35:31.239 --> 01:35:33.920
<v Speaker 2>mean I feel like that's probably why they're continuously like

1683
01:35:34.039 --> 01:35:38.039
<v Speaker 2>the end is coming. They also identify common events in uh,

1684
01:35:38.239 --> 01:35:42.479
<v Speaker 2>the sociopolitical environment to adhere to the coming signs of it.

1685
01:35:42.640 --> 01:35:45.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you've got who is it like Pastor Haggy

1686
01:35:46.119 --> 01:35:49.760
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe who was spouting a whole bunch of

1687
01:35:49.920 --> 01:35:53.920
<v Speaker 2>like end time stuff whenever the uh that red moon

1688
01:35:55.199 --> 01:35:57.399
<v Speaker 2>was with the blood moon, I think it is, uh

1689
01:35:57.640 --> 01:35:59.720
<v Speaker 2>when that was going to be showing up and talking

1690
01:35:59.720 --> 01:36:02.560
<v Speaker 2>about end time. So I mean it's literally like fear

1691
01:36:02.680 --> 01:36:08.159
<v Speaker 2>mongering this very religious base, trying to convince them that,

1692
01:36:08.479 --> 01:36:12.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, they are going to be experiencing the end

1693
01:36:12.319 --> 01:36:17.600
<v Speaker 2>times and they either are grifting or they're just totally

1694
01:36:17.960 --> 01:36:21.119
<v Speaker 2>believing it, so like they truly believe in this, They

1695
01:36:21.239 --> 01:36:23.680
<v Speaker 2>truly believe that the end times are coming, and so

1696
01:36:23.840 --> 01:36:27.119
<v Speaker 2>they're doing their best to like warn people. But at

1697
01:36:27.159 --> 01:36:30.399
<v Speaker 2>the same time, like I get what you're saying, like

1698
01:36:30.520 --> 01:36:32.760
<v Speaker 2>how many times can you actually expect them to buy

1699
01:36:32.840 --> 01:36:35.239
<v Speaker 2>this whole end times or coming thing? And I think

1700
01:36:35.279 --> 01:36:38.560
<v Speaker 2>that it's as long as people are holding on to

1701
01:36:38.720 --> 01:36:41.640
<v Speaker 2>this idea of the end times coming or the end

1702
01:36:41.680 --> 01:36:44.279
<v Speaker 2>of the world coming, which seems to have been forever

1703
01:36:45.159 --> 01:36:47.039
<v Speaker 2>that people have held onto these kinds of things, I

1704
01:36:47.079 --> 01:36:49.079
<v Speaker 2>think they will continue to hold onto those things.

1705
01:36:49.399 --> 01:36:53.880
<v Speaker 5>It's improbable like every single time they have said it

1706
01:36:54.039 --> 01:36:56.720
<v Speaker 5>was going to end, it hasn't ended yet. So currently

1707
01:36:56.760 --> 01:36:58.000
<v Speaker 5>we're bat and zero here.

1708
01:36:59.199 --> 01:37:01.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I totally agree.

1709
01:37:01.720 --> 01:37:03.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And that's that thing that.

1710
01:37:05.880 --> 01:37:10.079
<v Speaker 5>Content and uh, he's he deals with all these crazy

1711
01:37:10.119 --> 01:37:12.840
<v Speaker 5>profits that are talking about like the Great Controversy, and

1712
01:37:13.800 --> 01:37:16.000
<v Speaker 5>and I just I didn't realize how far deep that

1713
01:37:16.199 --> 01:37:19.800
<v Speaker 5>rabbit hole in an actual sect like Seventh Day Adventists

1714
01:37:19.840 --> 01:37:25.399
<v Speaker 5>that are really technically like uh, pretty popular Protestant group

1715
01:37:25.680 --> 01:37:29.399
<v Speaker 5>around America. You know, I live in the Midwest, and

1716
01:37:30.079 --> 01:37:33.920
<v Speaker 5>I didn't realize how hardcore. They were into how bad

1717
01:37:34.000 --> 01:37:36.159
<v Speaker 5>it's going to end, and I'm like, damn, dude, that

1718
01:37:36.279 --> 01:37:39.399
<v Speaker 5>must that must just stress you out all day long.

1719
01:37:41.479 --> 01:37:44.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it's important as well just to kind

1720
01:37:44.640 --> 01:37:47.319
<v Speaker 1>of switch on what cardless engineers said with the science thing.

1721
01:37:47.640 --> 01:37:52.399
<v Speaker 1>You know that all signs is in the same kind

1722
01:37:52.479 --> 01:37:57.239
<v Speaker 1>of category of veguess as the words soon and then well,

1723
01:37:57.479 --> 01:38:00.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, one one thing they mentioned specifically was the

1724
01:38:00.800 --> 01:38:03.319
<v Speaker 1>blood moon, the moon turn into blood. And you see

1725
01:38:03.399 --> 01:38:07.039
<v Speaker 1>these kind of and for the Christians who believe this

1726
01:38:07.199 --> 01:38:09.520
<v Speaker 1>who are watching now and need to spell this out

1727
01:38:09.560 --> 01:38:12.199
<v Speaker 1>for you, you know, you see these posts put upen

1728
01:38:12.319 --> 01:38:15.680
<v Speaker 1>these you know, these sinks said that the moon is

1729
01:38:15.760 --> 01:38:20.119
<v Speaker 1>turning to blood exactly as it was prophecied in the Bible.

1730
01:38:20.439 --> 01:38:23.880
<v Speaker 1>Let me spell out to you what is actually happening. Okay,

1731
01:38:24.199 --> 01:38:28.800
<v Speaker 1>so the moon isn't turning to blood in small areas

1732
01:38:29.119 --> 01:38:33.760
<v Speaker 1>of the moon. They have found that oxydization takes place

1733
01:38:34.159 --> 01:38:39.239
<v Speaker 1>in very very small areas, So it appears that small

1734
01:38:39.600 --> 01:38:43.239
<v Speaker 1>areas on the moon are turning red. That's it. That's

1735
01:38:43.359 --> 01:38:46.319
<v Speaker 1>what the scientists have actually found. So if you see

1736
01:38:46.560 --> 01:38:51.399
<v Speaker 1>anybody saying that scientists have confirmed that the moon is

1737
01:38:51.479 --> 01:38:55.199
<v Speaker 1>turning to blood. Please dismiss them out of hand. Sorry, Troy,

1738
01:38:55.560 --> 01:38:55.840
<v Speaker 1>go on.

1739
01:38:56.079 --> 01:38:57.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm sorry, like firs oxide, like.

1740
01:38:58.119 --> 01:39:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Rest apparently so yes, apparently it has been detected on

1741
01:39:03.760 --> 01:39:07.640
<v Speaker 1>the moon in very very small amounts. But on that note,

1742
01:39:07.800 --> 01:39:11.279
<v Speaker 1>we are going to have to let you go. I'm

1743
01:39:11.359 --> 01:39:14.159
<v Speaker 1>going to I'm going to ask my geology friend who

1744
01:39:14.439 --> 01:39:17.039
<v Speaker 1>is not a million miles away about that very very

1745
01:39:17.119 --> 01:39:19.600
<v Speaker 1>short late. Thank you for your call, Troy. We lost

1746
01:39:19.680 --> 01:39:22.760
<v Speaker 1>out other caller. It isn't a fucking shame because it

1747
01:39:22.880 --> 01:39:27.000
<v Speaker 1>was Jackie, so nobody's going to be disappointed. And I'll

1748
01:39:27.079 --> 01:39:31.399
<v Speaker 1>be honest with you. Thank you for those calls. We

1749
01:39:31.479 --> 01:39:33.199
<v Speaker 1>have had some great calls. I think we've got some

1750
01:39:33.319 --> 01:39:38.560
<v Speaker 1>more superchats and the superchat progress it's ten out of ten.

1751
01:39:39.000 --> 01:39:42.039
<v Speaker 1>So I will be waiting for Godless engineer while while

1752
01:39:42.119 --> 01:39:45.960
<v Speaker 1>he prepares himself to channel Jesus through his puppet. I'm

1753
01:39:46.000 --> 01:39:48.520
<v Speaker 1>going to read out the rest of these superchats some

1754
01:39:48.760 --> 01:39:52.159
<v Speaker 1>kind of Dickay a member for two months and one

1755
01:39:52.199 --> 01:39:56.159
<v Speaker 1>of our wonderful hosts no less tender dollars, saying Hayley

1756
01:39:56.479 --> 01:40:02.039
<v Speaker 1>Mary Annette, bring on puppet Jesus king off strings. David

1757
01:40:02.159 --> 01:40:09.439
<v Speaker 1>Hackso member for six months has sent us fourteen or

1758
01:40:09.640 --> 01:40:12.439
<v Speaker 1>nine dollars. What CA mean? I don't know what that means.

1759
01:40:12.680 --> 01:40:15.000
<v Speaker 1>It's a CAA fourteen or nine. I don't know if

1760
01:40:15.039 --> 01:40:18.199
<v Speaker 1>that's a normal Canadian. I've got it. See this brain's

1761
01:40:18.279 --> 01:40:21.560
<v Speaker 1>not as slow as it first appears. Canadian dollars fourteen

1762
01:40:21.640 --> 01:40:23.359
<v Speaker 1>or nine, Thank you very much. I don't know the

1763
01:40:23.399 --> 01:40:26.000
<v Speaker 1>difference between them and American money, so it's all the

1764
01:40:26.079 --> 01:40:29.399
<v Speaker 1>same to me. We need three more superchats people, and

1765
01:40:29.640 --> 01:40:33.920
<v Speaker 1>David Axo, helping himself out no less a member of

1766
01:40:34.039 --> 01:40:37.800
<v Speaker 1>six months, sends another Canadian dollars fourteen oh nine, saying

1767
01:40:37.960 --> 01:40:41.319
<v Speaker 1>could you imagine being a lifelong Christian and then die

1768
01:40:41.399 --> 01:40:46.119
<v Speaker 1>suddenly without asking for forgiveness and spending eternity in hell

1769
01:40:46.399 --> 01:40:52.640
<v Speaker 1>while Jeffrey Doma is in heaven? And another super chat

1770
01:40:52.680 --> 01:40:56.800
<v Speaker 1>from David Hackso, Thank you very much. David Hackso sent

1771
01:40:56.880 --> 01:41:01.239
<v Speaker 1>another fourteen or nine Canadian and say Jesus gonna lick

1772
01:41:01.319 --> 01:41:06.439
<v Speaker 1>you with his sword tongue. Revelations nineteen fifteen. I'm sold

1773
01:41:06.960 --> 01:41:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Miranda Nsburger member for six months and twenty dollars, and

1774
01:41:10.960 --> 01:41:14.079
<v Speaker 1>says every time someone calculates the date of the rapture,

1775
01:41:14.159 --> 01:41:17.680
<v Speaker 1>God says me. Damn it, those little shits keep figuring

1776
01:41:17.720 --> 01:41:19.520
<v Speaker 1>out the day and the hour. I'm going to have

1777
01:41:19.600 --> 01:41:23.840
<v Speaker 1>to reschedule the rapture again, and I already booked the trumpeters.

1778
01:41:24.079 --> 01:41:27.319
<v Speaker 1>Thank you all for your superchats. I am going to

1779
01:41:27.439 --> 01:41:29.920
<v Speaker 1>pass it over to Godless engineer who is going to

1780
01:41:30.039 --> 01:41:32.600
<v Speaker 1>channel Jesus Sus poppet.

1781
01:41:33.439 --> 01:41:37.439
<v Speaker 10>Yes, I would really appreciate it if people didn't figure

1782
01:41:37.479 --> 01:41:40.039
<v Speaker 10>out when I'm going to be coming back, because you know,

1783
01:41:40.119 --> 01:41:43.119
<v Speaker 10>I've got to reschedule that shit every single time.

1784
01:41:43.359 --> 01:41:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, And yes I do have a sword tone.

1785
01:41:48.239 --> 01:41:48.439
<v Speaker 10>See.

1786
01:41:48.560 --> 01:41:50.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean it doesn't look like a sword now, but

1787
01:41:50.399 --> 01:41:52.600
<v Speaker 2>it's a lot like the Eucharist. It turns into a

1788
01:41:52.680 --> 01:41:54.560
<v Speaker 2>sword as soon as I lick you, so it's just

1789
01:41:55.039 --> 01:41:55.880
<v Speaker 2>it's sharp like a.

1790
01:41:55.960 --> 01:41:56.560
<v Speaker 9>Cat, you know.

1791
01:41:57.800 --> 01:42:02.359
<v Speaker 10>Anyways, God, bless all you, and I guess I'll be

1792
01:42:02.479 --> 01:42:04.920
<v Speaker 10>taking the next call or something until they tell me

1793
01:42:05.079 --> 01:42:06.840
<v Speaker 10>to get away from them or so.

1794
01:42:06.960 --> 01:42:07.319
<v Speaker 5>I don't know.

1795
01:42:08.000 --> 01:42:10.640
<v Speaker 2>Bless all of you, and I hope Christ will be

1796
01:42:10.840 --> 01:42:11.239
<v Speaker 2>upon you.

1797
01:42:11.800 --> 01:42:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for that disarmingly scary display. Jamiks in the comments,

1798
01:42:21.159 --> 01:42:24.960
<v Speaker 1>by the way, making reference to you having a puppet

1799
01:42:25.000 --> 01:42:26.239
<v Speaker 1>of him. I don't know if it's some kind of

1800
01:42:26.279 --> 01:42:31.079
<v Speaker 1>weird sexual fetish. You've got amke he is there and

1801
01:42:32.039 --> 01:42:33.800
<v Speaker 1>with the receding Helline know Less.

1802
01:42:34.640 --> 01:42:37.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know this Jmike character, but he sounds lovely.

1803
01:42:39.439 --> 01:42:42.520
<v Speaker 1>I'll stop telling lies now, only kidding. We all love

1804
01:42:42.640 --> 01:42:47.239
<v Speaker 1>Jamike here and his weird pizza fetishes. Right, So the

1805
01:42:47.319 --> 01:42:50.359
<v Speaker 1>prompt for this week is without lying, market the Bible

1806
01:42:50.520 --> 01:42:53.279
<v Speaker 1>to drive sales, replying the comments and tune in and

1807
01:42:53.399 --> 01:42:55.680
<v Speaker 1>the beginning of next week's episode to hear the top

1808
01:42:55.760 --> 01:42:59.000
<v Speaker 1>three answers. And we want to thank Kelly for helping

1809
01:42:59.119 --> 01:43:03.359
<v Speaker 1>us out today. Let's bring Kelly op here. Kelly, come

1810
01:43:03.439 --> 01:43:07.439
<v Speaker 1>the moon rushed canoxidization? Yes, yes, thank you.

1811
01:43:08.479 --> 01:43:11.800
<v Speaker 9>Yes, there there is iron on the moon, and there

1812
01:43:11.880 --> 01:43:14.800
<v Speaker 9>is also oxygen on the moon, so you're not going

1813
01:43:14.880 --> 01:43:18.039
<v Speaker 9>to get vast amounts of rust happening, but yeah, it

1814
01:43:18.199 --> 01:43:19.880
<v Speaker 9>can happen in isolated places.

1815
01:43:20.199 --> 01:43:21.399
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Kelly.

1816
01:43:21.520 --> 01:43:23.680
<v Speaker 2>I have to disagree. We all know that the moon

1817
01:43:23.800 --> 01:43:26.479
<v Speaker 2>is a light and the source is me. Okay, I

1818
01:43:26.560 --> 01:43:29.279
<v Speaker 2>wrote it in my book. The source is alight. I'm

1819
01:43:29.319 --> 01:43:33.359
<v Speaker 2>just saying right now, Okay, nobody, nobody accept this. Harlan

1820
01:43:33.479 --> 01:43:35.880
<v Speaker 2>over here is being a day kind of truth.

1821
01:43:38.119 --> 01:43:44.640
<v Speaker 1>I expect you to think I was expect Kelly, what

1822
01:43:44.800 --> 01:43:45.680
<v Speaker 1>did you think of the show?

1823
01:43:46.439 --> 01:43:48.560
<v Speaker 9>I was going to make a joke about cheese, but

1824
01:43:49.560 --> 01:43:51.239
<v Speaker 9>I was going to make a joke about cheese, but

1825
01:43:51.279 --> 01:43:53.159
<v Speaker 9>I didn't want to make it around a fat fuck.

1826
01:43:54.560 --> 01:43:58.000
<v Speaker 2>You know what, Kelly, I'm gonna I'm gonna smite you

1827
01:43:58.119 --> 01:44:00.880
<v Speaker 2>for that. Smiting you right now.

1828
01:44:01.239 --> 01:44:05.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Kelly, what did you think of the show? Let's

1829
01:44:05.840 --> 01:44:06.880
<v Speaker 1>bring it back in line.

1830
01:44:08.000 --> 01:44:08.479
<v Speaker 6>Oh it was.

1831
01:44:08.560 --> 01:44:10.439
<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed the show. I really did.

1832
01:44:11.159 --> 01:44:13.760
<v Speaker 9>I really did. And and you know, Steven, if you're

1833
01:44:13.760 --> 01:44:16.640
<v Speaker 9>going to designate a group of people as being first

1834
01:44:16.720 --> 01:44:20.000
<v Speaker 9>followers of Islam and that's the reason why you're hating them,

1835
01:44:20.159 --> 01:44:22.439
<v Speaker 9>then yeah, it's okay to call it islamophobia.

1836
01:44:23.560 --> 01:44:25.640
<v Speaker 2>Cool Jesus agree.

1837
01:44:26.359 --> 01:44:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we have an ACD discorde which all three of

1838
01:44:30.880 --> 01:44:34.239
<v Speaker 1>us people will be attending shortly after the show after

1839
01:44:34.359 --> 01:44:37.000
<v Speaker 1>our debriefs, So head on over to tiny dot cc

1840
01:44:37.439 --> 01:44:43.000
<v Speaker 1>slash ACD Discode. If you don't believe this is your community,

1841
01:44:43.319 --> 01:44:47.039
<v Speaker 1>and we really really do appreciate you being here. We've

1842
01:44:47.119 --> 01:44:50.880
<v Speaker 1>had some great calls from the community today and I

1843
01:44:51.119 --> 01:44:54.760
<v Speaker 1>very much appreciate those people who want to ask questions,

1844
01:44:54.840 --> 01:44:59.079
<v Speaker 1>who are appreciative of what we do. And you know,

1845
01:44:59.239 --> 01:45:03.439
<v Speaker 1>I'm really do enjoy when you guys call in, when

1846
01:45:03.520 --> 01:45:05.960
<v Speaker 1>you listen to the show week after week, and you

1847
01:45:06.479 --> 01:45:09.760
<v Speaker 1>know you take on board the conversations that we're having

1848
01:45:10.199 --> 01:45:12.680
<v Speaker 1>and you put them into practice in your own lives

1849
01:45:12.720 --> 01:45:14.359
<v Speaker 1>and you give us a call to tell us how

1850
01:45:14.399 --> 01:45:17.600
<v Speaker 1>that's going. I love that shit, so please please do it.

1851
01:45:17.760 --> 01:45:21.079
<v Speaker 1>Don't feel put off by calling. Don't think arm an atheist.

1852
01:45:21.159 --> 01:45:23.920
<v Speaker 1>I haven't really got anything to say. If you have

1853
01:45:24.159 --> 01:45:27.199
<v Speaker 1>gained something from watching the show, please do feel free

1854
01:45:27.279 --> 01:45:29.000
<v Speaker 1>to give us a call and let us know. Do

1855
01:45:29.159 --> 01:45:32.920
<v Speaker 1>appreciate those calls. If you do believe, if you're Muslims,

1856
01:45:33.199 --> 01:45:37.560
<v Speaker 1>if it is Lamists, you know we weren't defending you earlier.

1857
01:45:37.880 --> 01:45:41.920
<v Speaker 1>You are wrong. God doesn't exist. However, nobody has the

1858
01:45:42.079 --> 01:45:47.840
<v Speaker 1>right to be abusive towards you, to denigrate you just

1859
01:45:48.119 --> 01:45:51.880
<v Speaker 1>because of that aspect of your personality. You know you

1860
01:45:52.039 --> 01:45:55.520
<v Speaker 1>are welcome here too. Religious people are welcome in this community.

1861
01:45:55.760 --> 01:46:00.520
<v Speaker 1>Let's have good conversations. We are here for everybody. And

1862
01:46:00.800 --> 01:46:05.279
<v Speaker 1>on that note, we don't hate you. We're just not convinced.

1863
01:46:24.880 --> 01:46:28.560
<v Speaker 1>We want the truth. So watch Truth Wanted live Friday

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<v Speaker 1>at seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot cc slash y

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<v Speaker 1>t tw and call into the show at five one

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<v Speaker 1>two four two, or connect to the show online at

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<v Speaker 1>tiny dot cc slash call tw