Speaker 1: Welcome to the Good Trouble Show.
Speaker 2: I'm Matt Ford.
Speaker 1: Today's guest has spent six years interviewing every major witness, researcher,
and insider in the UFO world over a thousand podcast episodes,
and now he's picked the thirty cases that actually matter
and put them into one book.
Speaker 2: His podcast is that UFO podcast.
Speaker 1: His new book is called Atlas of Unidentified Flying Objects
and Unidentified Nominalistnamas. Everyone can see that there without the
glare anyway. Please welcome to the show. Andy mcgrillan, Andy,
how are you, sir?
Speaker 3: Good morning, afternoon evening, Matt wherever you are, what our
time zone folks are, and I'm very well. Thanks for
having me.
Speaker 1: Excellent, excellent little thanks, thanks, thanks for joining us. So
I have been a fan of your show for quite
some time. Your interview style is absolutely fantastic. I love
the guests and your show is definitely on my regular
list of shows that I definitely listen to. So thanks,
thanks for coming on the show. So this is your
first time on the show. Tell us a bit about yourself,
where did you grow up, what's your sort of background,
and then we'll get into the whole thing of how
you got into this whole UFO business.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, thank you for the kind words, obviously. So
my name is Andy mcgrillan. I am quite clearly not
from the US. I was born and raised in Glasgow, Scotland,
and that's part of the UK, and yesterday there. Most
of my life, the last thirteen years I've lived in
the northeast of England, just outside of a place called Newcastle.
And yeah, as a kid, always had a big interest
in the UFO topic.
Speaker 4: Generally you'd call them mysteries. I suppose.
Speaker 3: As a kid, I used to be really into like
the Locknest Monster, the Pyramids of Egypt, UFOs, not so
much ghosts. That always scared me and still does so.
I'm not a big fan of the ghost topic. That
not through any lack of belief, but just I don't
want to see any so you know, don't send any
of my way, folks. And yet I had a sighting
when I was about.
Speaker 4: Ten and eleven years old. Want me to talk about
that just now? Yeah, yeah, go on ahead, Yeah why not?
Speaker 3: So? Yeah, I used to go to the Boys Brigade
in the UK and that's similar to like a Scouts
type organization and leaving the church one night. I always
have to preface I'm not religious. They just host these
things in churches. And I was crossing the road in
a really busy area with four other people, my mum,
my sister, my friend and his mum, And it was
like a winter's night, late October November time in Glasgow,
clear sky. But this object wasn't high up in the sky,
about half a mile a long, a really busy road,
no fearn countryside, all houses and shops that were opening,
cars driving up and down. There was a kind of
big sports field and just sort of behind that you
could see almost like a ferris wheel, but it was
tilted at an angle about maybe thirty degrees twenty five
degrees something like that, spinning incredibly fast. Now, if it
was a ferris wheel, everyone was dead because of the
speed this thing was going, or they would have been
thrown off it. And besides, it was so local to
where I lived. It was the mid nineties. You would
have known if there was something like that on in
the area, and I wasn't. You couldn't even see the
bottom of this object for the houses and trees, that's
how kind of close it was.
Speaker 4: And we kind of saw it. We looked at it
for a short while.
Speaker 3: And I remember my mum and my friend's mum thinking
and saying, that looks weird. I thought, wow, that looks
like a big ufo on its side. It couldn't make
out if I said it was a flying saucer, I'd
be lying. Just it was kind of saucer ish in
shape on its side, with the lights going round and
round really fast. And we didn't stay for too long.
We carried on home. We lived sort of diagonally the
other direction. If this was at two o'clock, we lived
at ten o'clock, and we headed on home. And yeah,
that all was stuck with me to this day, I
can imagine.
Speaker 1: So does your mom still talk about this particular incident.
Speaker 3: She will talk about it. She doesn't remember much other
than we saw something weird. It's funny anyone who was
with me that night. My friend too. I'm not really
in touch with our Facebook friends, you know, as many
folks are.
Speaker 4: Thirty odd years on.
Speaker 3: I asked him about it a few years ago when
I started the podcast, and he says he remembers it,
but not too much. Couldn't tell you exactly what he saw.
My sister says something similar, saw some strange object, couldn't
draw it down. I tend to remember most of the detail.
I remember it really clearly, still in my memory. Some
folks might raise an eyebrow and say, isn't that convenient
for a UFO podcast host? That memory for me, however,
has never changed, and for yeah, it's kind of stuck
with me, the detail of the night.
Speaker 1: It's interesting you hear that so much from so many people,
especially a kind of group siding where one person remembers
one thing and another person may be recalled seeing something
completely different than same with the third. But also what
is interesting is what you're pointing out. You will often
hear one person will vividly remember the entire thing, but
then other people will be like, yeah, I don't really
kind of remember what I saw or was a little
bit fuzzy. It's I just think it's really fascinating. I
don't know if it's if it's an issue of like
how people process it or whether they think it was
like a big deal, But yeah, that's really something else.
I'm curious, did your mom ever say that she had
seen anything anomaloists prior to that, Like, did it any
indication that it runs in the family.
Speaker 3: Nah, she is not interested in the UFO topic whatsoever.
She knows I've got a book, she's got a copy
of that. She's very proud she knows I do a podcast.
I think if I asked her what's my podcast called,
she wouldn't have any idea. If you ask about the
subject of UFO, she'll say, well, there must be something
out there, but I don't believe these things are coming here.
Speaker 4: That's as far as her interest goes. So yeah, nothing ever.
Speaker 3: Going back, my interest in all the kind of weird
stuff that I was into growing up as a kid
that was quite geeky would come from my gran no
sightings that remember, and she passed away a few years ago.
But yeah, it was all kind of stemmed from those
kind of conversations as a kid with her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I was about nine when I really
sort of became interested in all that kind of stuff.
And I think it may have actually started with the
Locknext Lockness Monster. I was very fascinated by that whole thing,
and then of course Bigfoot and whatnot. So andy, when
did you decide to start a podcast about this whole issue?
And you know what made you pull the trigger. Was
there one thing that you said, you know what, it's
time to do this thing?
Speaker 4: Yeah, just the money I could see in UFOs Matt.
Speaker 2: No, it's a get rich quick scheme.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see you're a fellow grifter as well, so.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I'm grifting my arse off in this cold shed.
So the UFO thing COVID basically around March twenty twenty.
I'll always say I could talk about podcasts all day
and drive away your whole audience tonight, but we won't
do that. I've been a fan of the podcast format
since I was really young, and it first came out
what fifteen years ago. I think the first kind of
podcasts sprung up around roundabout then. Ricky Gervais had one
of the first big ones. I used to listen to
a lot of radio growing up as a really young child.
I would listen to a lot of music on the radio,
and then around two thousand, two thousand and one, I
found talk radio stations in the UK, so this is
still around the burgeoning days of the Internet and getting
AOL discs in the post. I started listening to kind
of late night talk sport. They would they would go
into political affairs, the Iraq War kicked off after nine
to eleven, things like that. So I've always been a
fan of radio. Podcasting for me is on demand radio,
That's what it is. So big fan of the format
and always had that thing of I'd love to start
a podcast one day. It seems like any old idiot
can do it, so why couldn't I, but never decided
to do it. And then around around the first couple
of weeks of COVID, as people started talking about this
is getting bad, we might go into a lockdown. There
was all those videos online in the UK of the
army preparing for whatever it was going to be. I thought,
do you know what? It was my birthday around that time, March,
middle of March, and I bought a microphone with my birthday,
and I thought, this is either going to sit in
a box in my room, never be used and I'll
sell it in a month's time, or if indeed we
do have a couple of weeks coming up of free time,
then this is the only time I'm ever going to
start a podcast, if I'm going to do it. So
sure enough that the microphone sat in the box for
about a month, and then as the lockdown was extended
out and we realized we were going to have a
little bit more time. I still worked. I wasn't fur loughed.
I've got a full time job, the same one I
had then I have now. I decided for a hobby.
Do you know what, let's give this a go. I
remember the day I was driving down the street deciding
was it going to be Football slash Soccer or UFOs?
And I decided it was a lot of football podcasts,
but not quite as many on UFOs, and I started
reaching out to guests.
Speaker 4: Sadly, Nick Pope was one of the.
Speaker 3: First people I emailed, who's just passed away, very well
known name. He gave me a very polite decline, but
he at least replied it was very much. He was
really busy, and I didn't even have a name for
the podcast at this point, just that I wanted to
interview someone, so I thought, who have I seen on
some documentaries? But they haven't had too much exposure? Someone
no offense, lower level. You know, if you want to
start a soccer podcast, Matt, you want to speak to
Ronaldo and MESSI, don't you? But they're not coming on
your first episode with no one listening, so you have
to look for someone newer to the game, someone lower level,
And I remember looking up unidentified the first series had
been on, who were some of the guys that who
had maybe just came out for the first time, And
I found Gary Voorhes who And I remember looking on
YouTube and I think he'd done like two interviews. One
of them he was standing on a beach and it
was kind of talking head format.
Speaker 4: The other was unidentified.
Speaker 3: So I reached out to him and Gary really kindly
said he would come on with no audience, no title,
and sort of from there it was Sean ky Hill
was episode two, Jason Gleaves from the UK was episode three,
and then come episode seven, I managed to get Nick
Pop on. No one should ever go back and listen
to it because due to bandwidth issues on Nick's end,
the audio is almost criminal to listen to. I swear
they would play in guant animal be to torture people.
But yeah, it's a learning curve, especially in the early days.
We all make a lot of mistakes with these things.
But from there it grew. It grew really quickly, and
as COVID kind of subsided and we had that big
explosion of podcasts early on, I just kept going with
mine and it's here. We are, almost six years later
to the day. Probably in a couple of weeks it'll
be six years, like you say, almost a thousand episodes.
It's been fun, it's hard work. It is my main
job essentially now. I still do work full time aside
from it. But yeah, it's a really interesting subject, very
close to my heart, incredibly frustrating, incredibly interesting.
Speaker 4: There's so much to it.
Speaker 3: There's so many questions, and I think what's happened in
the United States from twenty seventeen to now with the
political progress has been a real eye opener. And yes,
people like yourself coming on the shows are looking better,
are getting more professional, and someone like me sitting here
in a shed with a tumble dryer behind us black curtain,
is just kind of along for the ride.
Speaker 4: To throw in my two cents.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, at the end of the day, I mean,
you can have a glitzy set and all that kind
of stuff, but if you're not a good host and
you don't have good guests, uh, you know, those are
the two most important things in my book, And that's
why I've always admired your work because you're I love
your interview style as I as I said earlier, and
you've always always had great guests.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was actually pretty late to this, pretty late to.
Speaker 1: This whole thing. And I'll tell you a story. My
first big, big guest. I've never told this publicly. I
went to the Soul Foundation and I, you know, and
I completely understand what you mean. It's very you're not
going to like book President Obama on your first your
first podcast. So uh So I was at the Soul
Foundation and I got up at like second second uh
talk or whatever that started that morning, and I get
up to go to the men's room and I'm going
there doing my thing at the you know, at the urinal,
and I look over and who walks up but Gary Nolan,
doctor Gary Nolan. So I start talking to him and
I just said, hey, would you like to come on
my show? Right in the men's room. And He's like sure,
I've never told anybody that story, but it's uh yeah,
It's funny how those kinds of how those kinds of
connections can can sort of come about. I'm curious who
who were some of your inspiration? You know, you mentioned
Nick Pope But in terms of podcasters that were doing
the UAP UFO thing, were there any in particular that
were inspirational to you?
Speaker 3: I don't want to be sounding big headed. I wouldn't
say there was anyone inspirational. More ego to see if
they if people can do this, and I mean all
genres of podcasting I would listen to. I listened to
a lot of grassroots podcasts. People who had fifty downloads
at a couple of hundred downloads of show really low level
stuff that I really enjoyed. It's almost like finding a
band before it gets popular when you like the early stuff.
And I liked a lot of those kind of podcasts.
But I used to listen to Ryan Sprague, still still do.
Ryan's a friend now somewhere in the skies. I'd listen
to Open Minds with Alejandro Rojas Martin Willis podcast UFO.
I was just a guest on that the other night.
Those were the kind of three main ones that I
knew of. Aside from that, I would watch documentaries or
Unidentified had just came out a couple of years before,
So yeah, those were the kind of UFO podcast I
would listen to. Nil deGrasse Tyson's Star Talk before he
got really Ufo Bashy and Brian Cox and Robin In's
Infinite Monkey Cage. If anyone's aware of that in the US,
I don't know how big it was over there, but yeah,
So it was a case of I enjoyed those podcasts
and I think I had a little bit of that
when I do an interviewer, and I'm sure people do
this mat with you or when they're listening to me,
that they would be like, Oh, I wish you would
ask this question, or do you know what, Matt, you
should have asked this question? Why didn't you ask it?
And that two and a half hour interview, you idiot,
you missed that off. And I was that guy thinking, well,
do you know what? Why don't I put my money
where my mouth is and I'll ask those questions. And
I still have the notepads from the first shows, and
I'm still and I'm still a notepad and pen guy,
like I'm old school. As much I've got all this
wonderful technology around me now with PCs and max and
stuff like that, I still like to do that. So
I thought I could do this, and I jotted down
a whole host of bullet points, and that's how it
kicked off and how I still can I do it now.
I don't think in six years, as much as the
quality has got better, it sounds better, it looks better,
as much as YouTube people have to see this face
that's had apologies for that, folks, it's it's still I
think got the same the same kind of tone it
had when it started, and I think that probably people
who have been around from some beginning will appreciate that.
Speaker 2: I think I would agree.
Speaker 1: I'm curious, when you started this, did you have any
idea that you would be where you are today in
terms of one of the biggest UFO podcasts in the world.
Speaker 2: Did you see that coming at all?
Speaker 3: One of the biggest UFO podcasts in the world is
like being the nicest guy in prison, isn't it. I
think sure, it depends how that lands with you, and
I'm sure Jesse Michael's, Chris Ramsey and others would say
about that, But no, I didn't think. You couldn't imagine
it would ever get popular. I remember day one, two
people listening to the podcast. On day one, one of
them is me checking the episode had gone out, okay,
And then I remember after like a couple of weeks,
it was like ten downloads and then fifty downloads, and
after a month I had like two thousand downloads, which
was my wife thought was ridiculous. This stupid little hobby
that I was doing was gaining traction. And then I
remember like, I don't mind. The numbers are all relative,
and if anyone's out there starting their own show, and
whether you get ten downloads or a million downloads, great,
you know someone's choosing to listen to you. You should be
happy with that. Success is relative. But I remember having
like eighty thousand downloads after the end of the first
year and being like, wow, this is this is getting
more popular and reputation I think helped along with that
for whatever reason. And I remember probably that the big
break for me was George Napp coming on. That was
one that a lot of people seem to pick up.
I mean you could literally look at the graph of
my numbers and see the George Nap episode go like that,
and people kind of stuck around, which was really nice.
So I appreciate anyone's time who's ever given me time
to come on the podcast. I've never paid for a guest.
The only folks that ever asked for money were the
Ancient Aliens Crew. Some of those no offense to them.
I've been on that show, but I've never had to
pay a guest. I've offered guests money. I've offered charitable
donations if someone There are a few really high profile
names I've not had on, but I've offered to make
donations to to servicemen and women in the United States
and the UK and animal charities, all that kind of
stuff if they'll come on. So yeah, it's it's been
an interesting journey along the six years. You see, I've
had everyone, I've not had everyone yet. Chris Mellon's always
said no to me a very nice way. Tom Delong's
a bit of an illusive character for most of us,
and Bob Blazar seems to now be on some podcasts,
but mainly if you're out in California and a bit
of a tech bro. But other than that, I've been
very fortunate with the names who have chosen to come on,
and some of the best interviewers are with the names
that aren't quite as big and popular. I think those
can be some of the conversations folks really miss out on.
But yeah, maybe similar to yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely completely agree.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you have this new book Gap that is
just wonderful hardcover atlas of unidentified flying objects and unidentified
anomalous phenomenon. So what made you decide to write a
book and this is your first book?
Speaker 2: Correct?
Speaker 4: Yes, it's the grift, Matt, it's the grift.
Speaker 2: You have to go, yeah, big g word.
Speaker 3: Yes, listen. I was never much Oh yeah, listen. Do
you know what I'm not complaining about the money? The
money was nice. I wasn't the guy who though, who
wanted to sit down and write a book because I wanted.
Speaker 4: To do it. Far from it.
Speaker 3: I after the Grush coming out and the congressional hearing
where he talked about the non human biologics that the
craft the pilots, I was contacted by a few radio
stations have been very fortunate in the UK over the
years to have like a reasonable reputation that BBC and
other big stations like that last to speak to me
about any UF news. And with Grush coming out, I've
done like a five minute appearance one morning and I
kind of big BBC station. I sat in the car
outside my house in a really cold morning while my
wife got the I was ready for school, and off
the back of that, I got a text message from
a producer for BBC five Live and it was for
host Nicky Campbell. He used to do a Wheel of
Fortune in the UK back in the day, and they
were like, do you want to come on this afternoon?
We're doing like an hour. It'll be a call in
and you'll be one of the quote unquote experts on
the panel. And I said, yes, that was fine. I
thought it was radio. It turns out it was radio
and TV. So I had to go into my work
and get an office and during my lunch hour, I
sat an iPhone on top of a bunch of boxes
and folders and recorded an hour on TV as glamorous
it may have looked a setting. I was literally just
recording on my iPhone. Off the back of that, a
week later, a publisher reached out to me to say,
are you Andy who does that UFO podcast? Yes, would
you like to discuss an opportunity. I've been really fortunate
to be asked to do lots of little things and
big things over the time. I tend to listen to
things people want to ask me, but I say no,
to a lot of things, because I don't always think
I'm the best guy, of the right guy for it.
If I don't think I've got anything to add and
I want to say yes for the sake of money
or a couple of minutes in the spotlight, It's genuinely
not my style. So I listened to it and they
said they had this series Atlas of Vanishing Places paranormal places,
and they wanted to do a UFO series, and given
how I had spoken on radio, TV and the podcast, would
I be interested? And from there it kind of went well.
They were very gracious and giving me multiple deadline extensions
to the tune of about six months book because it
was taking me that long to do it. I had
a really good team of people help me make it
sound nice, make it look good. I think the book
looks incredible. It's a proper hardback book. I would never
have published something without that sort of help behind me.
Speaker 4: I don't think I could have.
Speaker 3: And hats off to people who do self publish, especially
friend of mine, Graham Rendell, who have got many of
his books historical books in the background behind me. He
self publishes and does a wonderful job. So yeah, the
book came about through a publisher. It took me eighteen
months probably to write start to finish, and yeh, it's
done pretty well since coming out, so I can't complain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's really just a beautiful book. Like I said,
it's you know, it's hardcover. Uh, And I'll show you
show some of the images here in a bit. When
when we get into some of the cases that that
you're you know that you're you're in particular particularly interested in.
But you know, so you've had thousands of hours of
podcast interviews with with these various people. In your mind
like what what does the book bring that a podcast
couldn't or is it is it just a different form
of media.
Speaker 3: Both, because I think there's in twenty twenty six especially,
I've got three young children, I've got two full time jobs,
I've got a life, you know, to live, and I
don't always have time to read a book. So I
was thinking what type of book would I like to
see on this topic? And I'm lucky to have all
these wonderful books behind me, written by all these different people,
covering so much of the UFO topic. But I was thinking,
if Richard Dolan can write three novels on Roswell for example.
I'm not that guy, but what I can do is
create a snapshot of a case, put it down in
a couple of pages in a chapter, and give people
a glimpse of the UFO topic and updated glimpse at
the UFO topic, especially since twenty seventeen, because I don't
think we maybe had that since then. And think of
those kind of classic coffee table books. You know, when
you go to a friend's house and they've got something
sitting whether it's in the toilet, on a shelf, or
it's in a bedroom, or it's on a coffee table.
Speaker 4: You pick it up.
Speaker 3: You can have a glance, you can skip to a
certain section, read a little bit, and then put it down.
You don't have to read it beginning to end, and
it just peques your interest and you can pick and
choose what you want to read. I thought that's what
I could deliver, That's what I could give especially going
into a bookshop, having all those options on a shelf,
picking a really nice book off the shelf and being
able to say, UFOs catchy cover. What are Some of
these cases are well known Roswell Virginia. You have to
put some of those in there, but then some of
the lesser known cases of folks even in the United
States wouldn't known. The only remit I had from the publisher.
They were really good letting me do what I kind
of wanted with the book. But the big one was
we have to make it worldwide. There's thirty four cases
in the book. Seventeen are from the US, and I
think seventeen are from outside of the United States. I
could have done an entire book just on the States.
There are cases missing, such as the Phoenix Lights, which
is my favorite. I purposely left that out one in
case they wanted extra material in two. In case they
ever asked me to do a second volume of it,
I could at least start with one case that I
still know more about. So yeah, it's a mixed a
mixed bag in terms of cases. Some really well known
lit up into different sections as well. But that's what
I thought I could provide that perhaps long form podcasting.
It's the TikTok of books. I think that's a good
way to put it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that now.
Speaker 1: Diana Walsh Pasoka wrote the forward. She of course, is
a religious religion professor U N. C. Wilmington, author of
American Cosmic. How did that come about? It's a really
lovely introduction. I absolutely, I mean, I love anything that
she writes, but that is really, I think, pretty special
having her introduce write the introduction for your book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And Diana Pisolka and Richard Dolan has a piece
on the back of the book praising it as well.
And Diana was the first and only name I reached
out to genuinely to write the introduction, the first person
I thought of. She's one of the people I respect most.
She's one of my favorite interviews to do for the podcast,
and she's got such a unique angle. Think again to
sell it to a mainstream publisher to say it's not
a crazy UFO person, and again, sorry to use that
kind of terminology, but when you're speaking to members of
the public and mainstream television, news, broadcasting, print media, they're
looking for, you know, what, what is credible And to
be able to bring up Diana Pasilka's background and her
her religious history professorship and all that, someone with that
level of knowledge and intellect, I think sold it to
them that that was a good person to do that,
and I was.
Speaker 4: She was so so nice to do that too.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I really appreciate Dana and then Richard Dolan
writing the piece for it as well. Lends a lot
of credibility because those are those are folks that I
really respect absolutely.
Speaker 1: Now, of course, there are thousands of UFO cases out there.
You picked thirty. How did you decide what made the cut?
What made it into this book.
Speaker 3: I I could make this sound really grand, grandiose, but
I remember I went to Sunney World one night to
see a movie and I can't remember what one it was,
and I took a big folder with me in a notepad,
and I sat for an hour before the movie with
a coffee and wrote down all the cases I could
think of off the top of my head, just like what
comes to me instantly. And it was like, okay, well
here's all the US ones. Okay, this was in France,
this was in Iran, this was China. And then starting
to look through the internet and do, okay, any cases
in Africa, any cases in Asia, any cases you know,
and just start to pick out some lesser known ones
as well. And that's literally how I've done it, first
off the top of my head. And then there was
other cases again like the Phoenix Lights, where I was like,
I could write about this one, but let's leave that
to the side and try and focus again on some
of the lesser known cases, because otherwise you're literally writing
a book that if it's a UFO audience buying it,
they're going to have heard of all of these. So
let's try and make it a little bit more interesting
and a little bit more internationally internationally based, because I think, like,
like we all say, this is a worldwide phenomenon, as
much as it's led by the United States, that this
happens all over and I think the book illustrates that.
Speaker 1: And all of these or a lot of these folks,
or maybe perhaps all of them are people that you've interviewed.
What was it like writing about these cases with people
that you've actually interviewed on your show. I mean, I
think that certainly had to have given you an incredible
amount of insight versus perhaps someone that you had not
met or interviewed.
Speaker 3: I'm not a fan of listening back or watching myself back.
It's hard enough doing this and having to see myself
on the laptop, Matt, So I had a base knowledge
from the guests I've had on the show, for example Virginia,
but I would use that kind of base level knowledge
to go and watch. The typical process for one of
the chapters would be, for example, Virginia, watch James Fox's documentary,
read a couple of articles, and then watch some smaller
documentaries or shorter episodes people have done with podcasts with
James Fox, and then from that, make a lot of
notes and start to write a base out and then
kind of fill it in as I went along. Some
of the cases were far easier if it was something
I had a real knowledge of or had spoken about
multiple times, had heard people speaking about multiple times. Virginia, Roswell,
that was fine, But then you've got some of the
lesser known cases.
Speaker 4: For an ezy.
Speaker 3: China Jaoshan, there was a lot less to go on.
I think one of the cases or something like one
or two little YouTube documentaries which give differing details, and
a couple of articles which are loosely translated from Chinese.
So some of those are more difficult to write about.
So maybe you've got a couple of pages on a case,
whereas others you could have written fifty pages on. So yeah,
having the base level knowledge is speaking to many of
these people through the podcast over the years. But I
like you in on a secret map. My memory is it?
Can I say, yeah, my memory is awful. I may
have written the book, but I've never read it back. Genuinely,
I've not read the book. I don't plan on reading it.
I don't think because I wrote it, I kind of
remember writing it.
Speaker 4: I loved it, so yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: People will say to me, like days, I record an
episode and tend to get stuff out pretty quickly afterwards,
and folks will comment on the discord channel, which right
now people are in there saying, hello, they're watching this,
so high to them. Or folks will email me something
I've said and they'll be laughing, or they'll ask a
question I don't remember saying it.
Speaker 4: So much of what I say or do is off
the cuff. I think I.
Speaker 3: Probably wrote the book a lot more that way than
people would realize. I'll say right now, if I can
do a podcast, and if I can write a book,
should as held. Any of you out there can do
it and better than me, So never let that put
you off. But yeah, it was interesting, and I think,
like I said about early podcast episodes, if I wrote
and it's a big if if I ever wrote another book.
I've learned a lot doing the first one. Things I
definitely would do, but things I definitely wouldn't do again.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we spoke beforehand about some of your favorite
cases in this book, and you know, so came up
with three that you're interested in. So let's start with
your first pick. Best straight, walk us through that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, Bastrait is an incident from Australia nineteen seventy.
I've got some of the details down to my left ear, folks. So,
like I said, my memory is shocking. And we had
a young pilot, twenty year old Frederick Valentik, flying solo.
He reports an unknown craft pacing him around one thousand
foot above him. What's really interesting with this, and it's
in the book because folks are on the YouTube they
can see it there. There's a transcript from himself in
the radio control tower and they're basically having a conversation
of our you know, I can see this object blah
blah blah blah, and you have the real time radio
of what happened. The plane disappears. At the end of it,
he says, it's right above me. No confirmed wreckage was
ever found. And it's a really interesting potential abduction story
with live audio accompanying it, which I found fascinating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again here these are the pages from this
from this this particular thing. And you know, and as
I mentioned, one of the things I just absolutely love
about it are the graphics. It's it's just a just
a beautiful, beautiful book.
Speaker 3: So it's just a quick side a quick side note.
I sent you the PDF like an early version, so
that the stamps all over that one. For example, some
of the pictures don't quite line up or it's like
a holding pattern. So if they do buy the book,
you will see the actual picture and not, for example,
those beautiful shiny rocks with albumy written all over it.
So yeah, that was just the PDF that I sent folks.
Apologies for that one, Matt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no problem. So in the in this particular case,
so the book included, as you mentioned, this air traffic
control transcript and one of his last words are chilling.
What was there anything in that in that transcript that
stood out to you?
Speaker 3: The fact that you've got this young pilot who says
it's not an aircraft, it's not a miss identification unless
he really had no clue what he was looking at.
But we're going back to the seventies. He's flying out solo.
He can see this thing circling above him at long
metallic object green lights. He says, it's moving at high speed,
it's hovering. It's been stalking him, tracking him. And it's
that that to me that it's not an aircraft. He
knew he was looking at something that wasn't meant to
be there, that he had not seen before, and it
was the last time anyone saw heard from him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is which is just in just insane. Now, Okay,
so your next pick was about Tehran.
Speaker 2: Tell us about that one.
Speaker 3: Tehran's quite a well known case. So nineteen seventy six,
Tehran in the news right now for all kinds of reasons, obviously,
but multiple civilians reported bright objects over Tehran at night.
The Iranian Air Force, as we now know, Iran. Tehran
is now Iran. They scramble F four phantom jets. I'll
give a shout out to my friend here, Graham Rendell,
who helped me with some of the detail, including the
aircraft numbers and things like that through the book. Pilots
locked onto objects they tried to fire instrumentation failed. That's
something we know famously can happen in so many of
these cases. But it's just nice to have one of
these incidents reported outside of the United States, like this object. Reportedly,
the larger object object really smaller luminous objects one appears
to move towards the jet wanted an attempted missile lock,
and the weapons systems failed at that exact moment, either
by pure coincidence due to the technology or the object
itself stopping the craft being able to fire upon it.
Once the smaller object disappeared, the systems returned to normal.
It was detailed in a US Defense Intelligence Agency memo.
It was described and classified as highly credible. It did
involve secondary aircraft ground radar confirmation. So we've got here
classic multiple witnesses, radar, military and yeah, it's detailed and
there are multiple points of reference and data for this case,
which makes it really interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it definitely is one of the more interesting cases
for sure. And you know, as you mentioned, the DiiA
called this a classic case.
Speaker 2: How well known is this case?
Speaker 4: Do you think it's talked about quite often?
Speaker 3: I know it's come up with some of the kind
of higher level conversations when you hear military four talking
about cases that happen outside of the United States. So
it's well known, it's well quoted, and again I think
to have that sort of region, that kind of that
kind of level of you know, going to the point
of firing upon an object is pretty pretty extreme. So yeah,
for me, it's one of the far more credible, credible cases.
Speaker 4: Again, just a shame. It goes back to nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 3: Perhaps if the United States want to make friends with Iran,
they could maybe ask for some of those files to
be sent over, But I think right now they've probably
got some more pressing things are trying to do, like
open up the strait of her moves rather than open
up the UFO files between countries.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think I don't get me started on
that whole thing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 1: Okay, your third pick, and I'm probably gonna butcher the
name here vrinds that I said that.
Speaker 3: Right, I would say or an easy But you know,
I imagine all kinds of all kind of accenter in different is.
Speaker 4: I'm not going to tell anyone how to speak. Matt.
Listen to this accent.
Speaker 3: So yeah, this was again I tried to pick some
different cases. We've had a potential abduction one person siding
with not a lot of data. We've then had the
tran with multiple data points.
Speaker 4: Military. Really interesting.
Speaker 3: This one goes to mostly primary children, primarily children, young
children in a park in Voroneze, southern Russia, and they
spotted large glowing spheres or discs which not only landed,
but then witnesses described tall beings emerging, one entity describing
and it goes about old school classic alien type here
with metallic suits, three eyes. I think a lot of
these descriptions tended to fade away as time went on,
didn't they that kind of classic orson Wells Philip K.
Dick science fiction look of an alien and what those were?
Reports of beings interacting with the environment. There's talk that
one of the beings shot a kid with some kind
of ray gun and froze them in place.
Speaker 4: This is all documented.
Speaker 3: This is all not to meet say what that was real,
but this is what people witnesses reported when the military
came to speak to them, and they were impressions left
on the ground from the craft. There were reports of
elevated radiation levels. It was covered by Soviet state news
at the time. Western media picked up on it, adding
to its notoriety. And it's a rare example of a
state the USSR acknowledging a UFO landing claim to especially
a pretty out there one with so many witnesses the
ray gun. It sounds like classic sci fi. But again,
just with the documentation and all the witness testimony, it
wasn't just a couple of children, for example. This is
a lot of folks in a busy spot. Really interesting,
pretty strange, a bit more out there, but one I
thought was definitely worth including well.
Speaker 1: And I think that's interesting that Tests ran this story.
Was this really kind of one of the first UFO
stories that that Tests, excuse me, had had run. Any
idea why, and if so, any idea why they chose
this one.
Speaker 3: I'm not too sure, Probably about a question for George Knapp,
who we know smuggled many things out of Russia and
involving UFOs. But it's certainly the one that got the
biggest coverage that I was managing to find anyway, But yeah,
really interesting, Like you say, being covered by state news
was massive, especially nineteen eighty nine was a tumultuous time
for the Soviet nation and Soviet Union, and we went
too far from its collapse. So I'm not history buff,
but I'm sure it wasn't the greatest of times for it.
Speaker 1: And you connect this to the school sidings as you
mentioned in Zimbabwe, Wales in Australia. I'm not too familiar
with the Wales in Australia sort of connections. What are
the similarities kind of what happened with those the Zimbabwe
Zim one I know, but the others are.
Speaker 4: Again Wales.
Speaker 3: They reported craft coming down low landing at West of Australia.
I don't believe the children reported a landed craft. I
know it's the sixtieth anniversary just now. Grant Lovac, Shane
Ryan are doing a lot of promotion on that in
discussing it. But for me, I just think there's something too.
When it's children reporting these things, especially large groups of children,
there's a kind of innocence that comes along and you
could say naivete. But when you've got ten or fifteen children,
thirty children or something like Ruas and Babie one hundred
children reporting this incredible event, reporting beings, reporting craft, it
just adds a certain interest or intrigue or a weight
to what's being said, because for them to make something
up and all stick to the same story sound really strange.
But with this one you had adults said as well,
because they were monitoring, they were looking after their children
in the park. So I think a lot of folks
find themselves drawn to those cases where there are lots
of children involved. Is there something to these craft or
beings being drawn to kind of the younger generation? Are
they implanting messages for the future, like perhaps with Ruizimbabwe
that yes, the case may have happened thirty years ago,
but does it happen then for the message to be
spread now that the documentary is coming out now, the
book's coming out now, The fact that we now we're
all connected to social media allows the witnesses and experiencers
of that time to share their story to a world
that's maybe more ready for that conversation than it would
have been had we had the same capabilities fifteen, twenty
twenty five years ago.
Speaker 2: Sure, sure that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Is there another case in the book that you want
you want to make sure people know about another one
that maybe a fourth one that you think is important
impactful other than the three that you've mentioned here.
Speaker 4: Remember they're now, Like I say, my memory is shocking.
Speaker 3: I do like some of the kind of smaller cases, like,
for example, there's a there's one in India where the
it's flight students to see an object and that's got
a few different radar points. There's an incident that happens
in China with an airport being closed.
Speaker 4: Again pretty short, lacking in data.
Speaker 3: I spoke to Richard Dolan recently around Chinese ufology and
why the secrecy around that is so much more. I
think that's a really intriguing place because we get I
think the US is such a wealth of information, both
good and bad on the UFO topic.
Speaker 4: It's certainly the go to nation for any UFO stuff.
Speaker 3: Something I'm asked often about when we might get to
talk about the UK and UFO stuff Matt is why
does this stuff always happen in the United States? Why
is it always Bible Belt United States? While all these
folks are seeing these things. You know, a lot of
stigmatization involved in it. But the US is the UFO
hub for many different reasons. So yeah, I think some
of those less stories that people can pick up and
look at and go, this is happening all around the world.
This is not a phenomenon that has stuck in the
United States that that old nineteen nineties trailer park crazy
you'll call Cletis type Simpson's character, because those are the
people that report UFO is that's not true. Just because
someone may have those circumstances doesn't make them any more
or less credible. But you're getting such a breadth society
now reporting UFO sightings through through the years to the decades,
especially as you as you'll know better than anyone, Matt
Or as well as anyone all these military folks, all
these folks and US politics. This is a this is
a societal issue now, and that's starting to come out
more and more.
Speaker 1: I think I totally agree.
Speaker 2: It's funny.
Speaker 1: I have people that are kind of new to the
topic or are curious about the topic almost and it's
almost inevitably they say, well, why therees A song happened
in the US, And I always reply, well, that's not
the case. Why do you think that there seems to
be a perception that it is only a United States
sort of phenomenon, which we clearly know it's not. Do
you think it's it's how it's dealt with in the press,
or maybe perhaps like you know, you do hear our
government speak about it, although in kind of confusing terms. However,
at least as far as I know, I've never heard
anyone from the from the British government.
Speaker 2: Speak about it.
Speaker 1: What do you sort of attribute all that that sort
of misperception of that too.
Speaker 3: In modern day as we sit now, it's because of
the progress happening in the United States. Someone could see
lack of progress, but the transparency of the governmental movement
and the political movement is certainly happening in Congress at
quite quite a mainstream level. Now. It's picked up in
a lot of the main channels, the big podcast the
main newspapers all talk about it. I think classically, things
like Hollywood would have had a lot to do with it,
the big movies, the UFO events always happened in the States,
I suppose, from the forties with Roswell all the way
through to the nineties. All the cases people spoke about
the Phoenix likes Betty and Barney Hill, Calvin Parker, all
these incidents happened in North America. So there wasn't a
whole lot else to talk about outside you'd maybe mentioned
Rendellshum that's a well known but again it happens on
a US Army base. Might be in the UK, but
it's still US land technically at the time, with nuclear weapons,
with US servicemen and women. So again there's always that
tag there if you want to go into the y.
Perhaps it may be is as simple as the US
is such a large land mass that these objects would
be drawn to it. Perhaps it's the fact that maybe
there are bases located off various different coasts. I know
that's something you've spoken about on your program before, Matt.
I've spoken about online and this idea that like the
tic Tac event where that happened the West coast, the
East coast, other bases literally off of there where NYH
hydrones are a.
Speaker 4: Pairing are made.
Speaker 3: You can go into all kind of weird and wonderful
theories around it, but it may be something as simple
as that.
Speaker 4: Again, it's a big place.
Speaker 3: It had to originate somewhere, or at least the lower
and legend had to and stemming from Roswell the US government,
the US military admitted they had a flying saucer for
a couple of days they changed the press release that
then went to a weather bloon. It's the father of
the cover up or the grandfather of the cover up,
and it's led the way through the Five Eyes.
Speaker 4: Agreements these days.
Speaker 3: And I think it just is the case that the
US were the early adopters of the cover up. They're
in charge of it. They've got the technology, the power
of the means, and it's best at Australia, the UK, etc.
Allow the US to deal with these things. And we
hear about it in Brazil with various different cases. Calarez
the US and volved Virginia at the US involvement. Whenever
these things happen, un marked uniforms, black helicopters turn up,
and the folks involved in these collections and retrievals tend
to have American accents when they speak.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now for sure, do you like here in the
US we have lawmakers that are clearly they know something's
going on, some more than others. But you have people
like Congressman Congressman excuse me, Tim Burshett, Congresswoman Annapolina Luna.
Speaker 2: Senator Jillibrand has worked on this topic.
Speaker 1: Do you see any new interest or increased interest with
lawmakers in your government, the kind of waking up to
the reality of this thing.
Speaker 4: None.
Speaker 3: No, there's no interest politically on this. This is a
career ender in the UK if any politician came forward,
and this is just my opinion, folks in the UK
might be watching or listening to this now saying I'm wrong.
I don't see that anyone could come out and discuss
this in any serious form or fashion without ridicule, without
them being laughed out of whatever our House of Commons
are speaking. In our politics, Matt is really boring and
really dry. Maybe right now in the United States, some
of you would yearn for a time of boring politics
given the show that goes on and has done for
many years now. In the United States, our news networks
are dull and boring compared to the States, the politics
is dull and boding, the characters within it. Keir Starmer
couldn't be any more of a dull, boring politician, And
I'm not getting political. As just a person he is.
I'd rather watch Paint Dry than listen to him top
for an hour, honestly, or another Stephen Greer documentary.
Speaker 4: Just having watched one of those recently that was particularly hard.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, it's a very different set of in the States,
and perhaps that lends itself more to the conversations around
the UFO topic.
Speaker 4: But you've got to be fair to some of the
folks leading the charge.
Speaker 3: They've picked it up, they've ran with it, and as
we discussed this match, I think we're two days away,
the fourteenth of April. We're due this deadline, aren't we
for a release of up to forty six files videos
that we are hoping to have released, whether that gets extended,
because we are going to get some stuff. I imagine
it will drop on the aliens or alien dot gov
domain that was purchased. Again, Matt, you're well connected, you
might know better than me. I'm expecting some stuff to
get uploaded onto there in the coming days, if not weeks.
Speaker 4: Do I think it's all going to be good? Nope.
Speaker 3: I think some of it will be just as frustrating
or bloody or could it be a balloon, could it
be a flock of birds. But I do think there
will be some stuff on there that does genuinely raise eyebrows,
and that's the stuff that I'll be focusing on. Yeah,
the US leads the way with this as it has
so many things for good or or bad, and I'm
grateful for that.
Speaker 4: On the minute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And speaking of political circus, do you think
that President Trump, our current president, will disclose? You know
you're hearing You're hearing people on on the congressional side
of things, in the legislative side here in the US saying, oh, yeah,
he's going to do it.
Speaker 2: What's your what's your take?
Speaker 1: And I know you're you're on the other side of
the pond, but I think even more so, I'm really
interested in your take because you're a little bit more
removed and you sort of see what happens, uh, what's
going on in the US in terms of the political
circus that we seem to be constantly living in.
Speaker 3: I know so much more about the US political political
arena than I do the UK, and I pay more
attention to it because it seems to affect me a
hell of a lot more. Do I think he'll disclose?
Are we talking Epstein or UFOs? So at first I can.
If we're sticking with UFOs, we'll leave the Epstein stuff
to Milania.
Speaker 4: That was funny. If we're sticking with UFO, is he's
had his opportunity.
Speaker 3: I mean, first time round, he had his he sit
down conversations, didn't he with his son at the time
that that famous quote around. You know, Roswell's really interesting.
He's always had this line around. He doesn't he said
multiple times. I don't particularly believe. However, you know, there's
good pilots, men and women, folks in military uniform who
have seen things, and you know, but I don't particularly believe.
Speaker 4: He's always been very quick to say that.
Speaker 3: Then we had the drone incursions just before he came
into office for the second time, where a lot of
that campaign and for parity here to show him generally
not political. I find it all hilarious, and that's all politics.
The Biding administration were just dead silent on those drones
and all that weird stuff that was happening. Trump very
much campaign day one. I'm going to tell you what
those were, what day we on now we are still
waiting on that. So he's had his opportunities. I think,
like any good politician, if and when Trump gives us
anything newsworthy in terms of anything close to a disclosure,
it will be for personal and political and professional gain.
So I must seeing that coming anytime soon, not unless
he has to because he's had the opportunity. But then again,
Donald Trump's the kind of guy who on a whim
could drop a truth bomb on truth social or you know,
if someone just irks him on an Air Force one
press junket, he can see what he likes, like he
did with Obama a couple of months ago. That started
this ball rolling a little bit. So, yeah, the opportunities there.
If anyone is going to say something, why not Donald Trump?
But I don't know, what about you, Matt, what you
think I mean?
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's the guy's completely unpredictable. You know.
Part of me thinks, okay, he's got the whole Iran
debacle which is happening. Then of course he has the
Epstein thing, which Millennia went out and went out in
front of the cameras and said what she said.
Speaker 2: So when I'm thinking about.
Speaker 1: It, like if if I were a little bit nutty
and I were Trump, I would be like, hey, what
better way to distract from Iran and distract from Epstein
then to dump.
Speaker 2: The UFO files?
Speaker 1: Because I guarantee you if he were to do that,
well maybe not Iran and and unfortunately, you know, the
whole Epstein thing is tragic. But I think that that
the media would absolutely focus on on the UFO thing.
But like you said, it's Trump, you know, he he
you know, he could wake up in the morning and
decide I'm going to bomb Iran. I mean, I'm sorry
you already did that. But but I don't know, man,
it's uh, it's I think it's I think it's anyone's
guess at this point.
Speaker 2: But but I do.
Speaker 1: Think that if I think that, if there's a good
chance of it happening, I think it's going to be Trump. Uh.
I think, if you know, my prediction is is Republicans
are going to get hammered in the midterms and Trump
is going to get impeached and he'll be out and
it'll be JD. I'm hoping that JD would would certainly
do it. There certainly seems to be some kind of
some kind of interest. What are your thoughts from where
you sit across the pond as far as JD Vance
and what he said on this topic.
Speaker 3: I'm the the best I know about JD. Van's where
a couple of years ago he hated Trump and said
a lot of really derogatory things about him, and then
when the opportunity became a knocking to be number two,
he jumped at that opportunity and changed his chin.
Speaker 4: Do you know what, he won't be the the last
person to do that. He's certainly not the first.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I think in terms of legacy, this
is what I look at in terms of if you,
if you were a president and you you get into
office day one, you're probably already thinking about the end
of your your your time, your end of your service,
and what's your legacy going to be. Is it going
to be a great healthcare program? That's one thing by
that I find utterly incredible the US Health Service.
Speaker 4: We're very lucky in the UK.
Speaker 3: People slight the NHS, but people get treated here for
basically free, and I think it's crazy what what you
guys have to go through over there in terms of healthcare.
But if you, if you want to think of of legacy,
if you were the disclosure president, to quote Stephen Bassett,
and I've probably summoned him by saying that, Now I
like Stephen, but you know it's the disclosure president, then
that's that would be a big one to go with
but as a world changing road to go down. I
think is it a decision that one person can make?
Speaker 4: Perhaps not. And I think in the background the people
who truly run and I don't. This isn't even conspiratorial.
Speaker 3: But you can't tell me a president runs the United
States and at Putting runs Russia and at Xijingping runs China.
There are people in the military background who are their
first thirty forty fifty years that you do not know
their names, you barely ever see their faces. Those are
the people making real decisions. And I wouldn't be shocked
if those folks speak to each other pretty regular especially
on the subject of UFOs. And it's those folks that
would have to come together to make some kind of
massive statement short of whatever this phenomena is, or an
aspect of this phenomena Phoenix Lights twenty twenty six. You know,
massive craft over New York, Washington.
Speaker 4: Whatever it may be.
Speaker 3: Then you'll get people shouting project Bluebeam, You'll get folks
saying hoax, hologram, all these kind of things. It would
have to be something pretty unequivocal. But yeah, if you're
looking in terms of legacy, why not be the UFO President.
Speaker 2: I completely agree.
Speaker 1: I'm curious in the UK, are there any well known
celebrities in your world that have come out with their
personal UFO experience.
Speaker 3: Well, Robbie Williams, I was a big fan of his
in the late nineties, early two thousands, some absolutely classic albums.
I know he's friends with Jeremy Corbel and others, and
he's talked about an incident where he was with a
woman and there was a shape shifting happened in front
of his eyes. Robbie Williams, wonderful artist, does have a
history of drug abuse and alcohol abuse, which he has
written about and talked about, so a lot of folks
instantly jumped to that.
Speaker 4: It's not like it as in the United States.
Speaker 3: I think anyone in the UK that I would find
credible is relatively standoffish on the UFO topics. Still, I'd
like to think that the perhaps Steven Spielberg's upcoming movie
gets a lot of the influencers and celebrities out of
the woodwork to view the UFO topic and a new light.
And I think things like Hollywood and the mainstream can
drive that I would love to see in the UK.
You've got sixty minutes in the United States or some
of these big news networks that cover the UFO topic.
We would need a Channel four in the UK or
a BBC to cover it at the top of the
hour and make it a real serious piece and story.
Speaker 4: And we still don't get that.
Speaker 3: The closest we have had in the UK to major
coverage of the US topic, and I'm going to go
back thirty years, forty years, maybe ever was David Grush,
because for four or five days, I think the hearings
were like a Tuesday or a Wednesday. And I think
until at least that Fridays, Grush.
Speaker 4: Was a story in the UK.
Speaker 3: Maybe not mega mainstream, but I had a lot of
broadsheet journalists, really serious journalists who laugh and scoff at
the UK at the US and the UFO topic, contact
me and other folks asking like they almost couldn't believe
they were talking about it. But seeing Grush, seeing how
well he spoke, the professional setting he's spoken, and the
terms he was using, non biologics, you know, craft pilots,
they were like, there's something to this, isn't there? But
it was gone by the weekend, so that the door
was kind of cracked open there, but we need something
big to happen in the UK. And whether that's because
the mainstream media gets controlled or told what to write,
and do they control the narratives and they don't want
that narrative out The British public will largely go along
with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean and that certainly is the case here.
Speaker 1: We have often spoken about how corrupt a lot of
the mainstream media is.
Speaker 2: Here in the US.
Speaker 1: Now. I don't know if you heard, and I just
this papped into my mind, so I don't have the
graphic to show. But Casey Musgraves, who is this country star,
she posted a video from I guess a flight that
she was going, that she was coming out of Nashville
or something like that, and she posts this video and
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Mick
West actually replied to.
Speaker 2: It, have you seen this thing? Okay? So, so Bick
says here.
Speaker 1: The Casey musk Graves UFO siding video has been identified
by Flarky, one of his sort of meta buck metabunk minions,
as being one hundred percent consistent with Starlink horizon flares.
Her plane was in the flare zone for the entire flight,
and the flares appeared in the right position, moving and
fading at the same speed as seen on the video.
If she could share.
Speaker 2: He always does this.
Speaker 1: If she could share the exact time the video was recorded,
then we could identify the exact exact the exact satellites. Uh.
Speaker 2: And did you did you see her reply to mixed
tweet something? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, so you know, I'll just read
it here for people that haven't seen it. It's on
her her ex account, which is at Casey Capital k
A c e Y Capital, M Musgraves Heymick. If you
zoom your way into the videos, you can If you
zoom way into the videos, you can also see a
really clear angle bigfoot writing your mom. And I thought
I thought that was I thought that was pretty comical.
And I can't it's not going to show up well
on my cell phone. But disclosure memes UH put out
this just wonderful image of Mick West's mom, who surprisingly
looks a lot like mcwest. I I encourage everybody to
go have have a look at that. That's at Feticini Split. Anyway,
I thought that was I thought that was interesting. When
we were talking about celebrities in what they have seen,
and of course there have been a number of US
celebrities that that have come out and you're hearing from
Steven Spielberg that he indeed thinks that that something is
going on. Now I want to kind of turn to
maybe something at the opposite end, which of course is
not funny, which is the loss of Nick Pope last week.
He's never been on my show I or had never
been on my show. I had the pleasure of meeting
him just very briefly at Contact in the desert, tell
our viewers a bit about him, what he was like
as a human being. He certainly seemed like just a
wonderful individual.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I got to meet neck Pulpe just once
at So here's a story for you, Matt.
Speaker 4: So I used to be a holiday wreck.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if you get those in the
United States, but in the UK you would apply to
work abroad and somewhere in Europe, and essentially tourists go
on holiday and you would work around the hotels and
make sure their their stay was comfortable, they had what
they wanted.
Speaker 4: You laid between them and the hotels.
Speaker 3: So I was out in Greece for nine months back
in two thousand and nine, and as the season kind
of drew to a close, there were less tourists going about.
You had a lot more spare time and free time.
And in a bookshelf I found one of Nick Pope's
books and I recognized the name, and it was there's
Operation Lightning Strike and Operation thunder Child, and I can't
remember which one comes first. I think it might be
thunder Child. But anyway, I picked up the book and
saw it was on UFOs and I thought, oh, I'm going.
Speaker 4: To kind of have a little flick through. And I
really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: And it was actually second of the two books I
read first. I took that book home with me and
it's behind that curtain on top of a tumble dryer.
Still okay, So when I came back, I bought the
other book, or I think my wife bought it for
me actually when we first met for a birthday of
a Christmas. But anyways, so those are two fictional books
by Nick Pope, sort of Independence Day esque about alien
invasion UFOs.
Speaker 4: Really enjoyable.
Speaker 3: So I got to meet Nick Pope then a couple
of years later, in twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen in
Berrick in the UK. He was over visiting and put
on an impromptu talk in Berrick town Hall.
Speaker 4: Lovely gentlemen, really nice guy.
Speaker 3: Obviously Saddler now passed away after a cancer diagnosis a
few months ago and seemed to go downhill really quickly
at the end, as often happens. I've just had a
very close friend of mine pass away from stage four
cancer just less than two weeks ago. That's shit, happens,
it's life, and yeah, these things go on.
Speaker 4: Nick Pope as a guy, was well.
Speaker 3: Known for coming forward in the nineties, having worked at
the Ministry of Defense's UFO desk. Now Nick Pope's now
passed away, there are lots of different folks. We'll see
lots of different things about what Nick Pope actually did,
whether he embellished, what his role was. The UK media
labeled him the UK's Fox Malder. Bear in mind this
was the mid nineties late nineties. The X Files was
massive anything UFO related, and it still is quite often
in the British tabloids. You are it's Fox, Molder and Scully,
it's the X Files logo. Whenever a UFO story comes out,
there will have been tabloids. When Grush came forward, will
have ran the X files logo as part of the print.
Speaker 4: That's just what happens.
Speaker 3: But what we do know is Nick Pop worked in
the UK's UFO deesque. Whether that was people making reports
he would answer the phone, write them down and file
them away, or if he was a bit more hands on,
highly debated. Not for this conversation, other folks could go
and do that research themselves. But off the back of
that he became a go to guy, not only in
the UK but in the United States for conferences. He
helped consult on movie shows. He was typically British and
that he wouldn't speculate too much about origins, He wouldn't
go off on wild tangent. In terms of the conversation.
He kept things quite straight laced and kept things relatively
factual to never kind of put too much emphasis on
what he thought or believed. Heavily involved in the Calvine photo,
famously having that essentially pinned to his wall.
Speaker 4: Lovely gentlemen.
Speaker 3: I've never seen anyone have a bad word to say
about him personally, and you think he's a big loss
to the UFO topic in terms of what he brung
that gravitas a credibility for many. He was a go
to a guy for the media, and I think it
speaks to maybe a larger time we're going to live
through where so many names involved in the UFO topic
from the eighties and nineties onwards, they are no longer
as young as they once were.
Speaker 4: So there's a famous Doctor.
Speaker 3: Who episode where they travel forward in time to the
last Star, and it's like, we live in a time
now of so many stars throughout the galaxy and the universe,
and we're actually really fortunate to live in this time
because one by one over infinity, these will die out.
And I think we're in a place where we've got
a lot of really great names across the UFO topic
who are getting on in years, and there will be
a time where names have to come up and replace those,
where new work will be done, new revelations will come out.
So I think Nick Pope's position and passing probably just
reminds a lot of folks of not only their own mortality,
but you know what we've got in this topic, and
how we use personality, how we use the kind of
those backgrounds and trying to be kind of good role
models for anyone coming into the topic or having been
involved in a topic for a long time.
Speaker 2: I think ye, I completely agree.
Speaker 1: He just sounded like a wonderful individual. I, as I mentioned,
just had a sort of brief conversation with him, but
I have had never once heard a bad thing about him,
and he certainly certainly is a loss to the UFO community.
If you have time, we'll get to some audience questions
here in a few But I'm curious, in you know,
the thousands of conversations that you've had in what you know,
the six years or so that you've been doing, is
is there anything that you didn't believe when you started
versus that you do believe now after having spent all
of this time and talked to so many people.
Speaker 3: I definitely think there is something to there being bases
under the water off the coast of the US manufacturing something.
I think A big swing in my thinking has been
that a lot of these craft aren't manned, but they
are not human. So, for example, the tic tac, I
don't think there's anything inside of those tic TACs. I
think those are empty. I think they're manufactured. They have
all the classic hallmarks of a drone, but not human drone.
And I think a lot of what visits us or
perhaps is based here more long term, is unmanned nyhhidrones.
That's not something I thought about too much or too
often coming into the not into the topics. I've been
into it since I was a kid, but I think
maybe since since twenty twenty. I came into this with
have we got craft of alien origin visiting us on
this planet? And I think I've had to change that
word visiting to interacting with living amongst It's a multifaceted phenomena.
There's so much, there's so much involved in it. One
thing that I came into the topic not being too
keen on, and I'm definitely still not keen on, is
when people tell you that they are in touch with
beings from name that star system, Palladian beings, and they
contact them and they take them on their spaceships for
a couple of days, cruise around Alpha Centri and bring
them back And yeah, not my bag. And I know
other folks do like it. I've got listeners and viewers
who are into that kind of stuff. But yeah, I
look at some of these big conferences with fifty faces
and I'll know maybe five of them, and maybe that's
my ignorance.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: But when you've got you know, the crystal healing room
off to this side, and you know, you can meet
all these folks who know the Palladians over this side.
Not my particular area of expertise or interest in the
UFO topic, but isn't that the wonderful world of upology.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm you and I are where I think we're
possibly brothers from another mother. I'm with you on that.
So yeah, So let's get to a few audience questions here.
This is from Triple eight. Out there there are the
two nicest guys in the biz. Grateful they are serving
us great news that the mainstream media refuses to. So yeah,
thank you, thank you for that comment. This is from
The Truth is Up There. Both to Matt and Andy.
You both joked about grifters in the subject area without
naming anyone to help us spot them. What makes a
grifter in your eyes?
Speaker 2: That's a really great question.
Speaker 3: I've got an answer for this that I'm really comfortable giving.
When someone can't say, I don't know, if you have
someone that is so certain that every single thing they
say is correct, that everything that you say they don't
agree with is wrong, and that it's their way or
the highway, it's their narrative or no narrative. Then for me,
that is a huge red flag. I'm not going to
name names, but whether you're selling CE five or whether
you're doubling down on orbs that are actually the space station,
then if you can't turn around and say, I don't know,
I got that one wrong, then for me, that's that's
an issue. And I think we see a lot of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I'm usually not too shy about
these things. I mean, I can I consider a doctor
Stephen Greer in that boat. Essentially, it's like if if
anybody is going to say like, oh, you know this
is this is not a threat, or if this is
all peace and love or uh, these things are from
a planet p and all of that kind of thing,
it's like, dude, how.
Speaker 2: Do you know all of this?
Speaker 1: And to me it's just my bullshit meter goes goes
to eleven, and you know, and and the same thing,
it's like if you're if you're selling CE five conferences
or you know, these humongous speaking.
Speaker 2: Fees and you know, and I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't fault anyone for wanting to make a good
living at this. People should be paid well for doing
things that they enjoy doing. But I think that that
it crosses a line once once you're kind of shoveling this,
that kind of kind of stuff. So anyway, my two
cents worth, okay from Tracy.
Speaker 4: Hot Mott, please, Yeah, really So.
Speaker 3: I just watched the recent Steven Greer documentary, and I
will always say to folks, never listen to my opinion
on anyone in this topic. Make up your own mind.
I've shared my thoughts on Stephen Greer so many times.
I believe he had good intentions, some good sources, some
good knowledge. Whether that's still the case now many decades later,
I don't necessarily think so. His new documentary was an
incredibly difficult watch for me because I actually forgot at
the beginning. They've set it up as Stephen Greer takes
a group of I'm guessing people who have paid him,
but they don't mention that, but a group of folks
attending his workshop to initiate CE five contact NHI, and
it's all about them. The documentary is meant to be
focused on the group. You then see ninety minutes of
Stephen Greer talking, and then at the end he bring
the group back in. Now I'm being a bit facetious.
There are small snippets of individuals speaking, but it's a
mix of Stephen Greer's opinion and some Stephen Greer stand
up because he puts in so many quips which are
actually some of them are quite funny and cutting. But
I forgot it was about the group until the end
when they bring it back in with the monologue around
the group and the journey they've been on, and it
really just brought it home to me. This is all
about him, and this isn't about what he's trying to
do or convey. And if people there get something out
of it, wonderful. If your thing is standing in front
of a sixty five inch TV and being told what
you're looking at is a when actually it's probably something
else like B, then that that's absolutely fine and that
that's you're right. Much like I've got that book. You
don't have to buy it. It's optional. I promise you
appreciate it if you do. But for me, it's just
something out there for people. But I'm not going to
tell you it's something. It's not giving you the answers,
it's not giving you the definitive guide on UFOs, isn't that.
It's just one guy's opinion on thirty four cases.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 3: And I'm not going to tell anyone who reads it
and tells me it's crap or shit or lacked depth
or anything like that that they're wrong because that said
opinion and then entitled to it.
Speaker 4: And I think there should be more of that in
the UFO topic.
Speaker 3: And yeah, if anyone wants to watch that Stephen Greer
documentary and get in touch with me and tell me
they like it, I'd love to hear other reasons why.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I'm with you on that. It's like, I
have no idea what any of this stuff is. I
couldn't tell you. I'm not going to even venture you
venture to guess. I mean, I've you know, I've experienced
this stuff quite a few times, and I have no
better opinion or whatever it could be, you know who
who who knows? I actually I have a very interesting
theory about Stephen Greer.
Speaker 2: Do you want to hear it?
Speaker 4: Go for it.
Speaker 1: I actually my theory is that he was probably a
medical officer in the UAP Deep Legacy Program and then
at some point bailed out. He probably I don't know,
maybe he got screwed or what ever. And he he
has uh has a bunch of stuff that they won't
mess with him on and that's why they seem to
leave him alone.
Speaker 2: Just my personal theory. I have no idea. I just yeah,
for what it's for what it's worth. Okay.
Speaker 1: So from Tracy Hutchings ninety six seven one, It's nice
to see Andy on the other side of the microphone.
That UFO podcast is one of my favorites. Thanks Matt
and Andy.
Speaker 4: All right, thank you, Tracy.
Speaker 1: Okay, great, same here, all right, Mistletoe forty nine sixty one.
Speaker 2: Love Andy's pod.
Speaker 1: Everyone should should catch and subscribe. So yeah, so how
can folks find your show?
Speaker 3: They can find on any podcasting platform, on YouTube, on
x on anything, if they just type in that UFO podcast.
It's got a website, that UFO podcast dot com. And
if they really like it, there's YouTube and Patriot memberships
and Apple for each files. But the content goes out
almost all of it's free. Anything that isn't free as
sort of opinion pieces or bonus shows and content stuff
like that. But like you say, I've done nearly a
thousand shows. I'm a dad of three little kids. My
wife puts up with me doing this kind of hobbied
it turned into a full time job. I put a
lot of time and effort into it, and I hope
people enjoy it, much like you do, Matt as well.
And all I want to do is offer my opinion,
my thoughts, and platform folks to share their opinion thoughts
and work that allow people to make informed decisions, whether
they like what I say, whether they like what the
guests say, or they don't. And I think that just
kind of helps us all make better decisions moving forward.
Speaker 1: With you on that. Okay, this is from the truth
is up there question? Could the UAP movement benefit from
a comic Con level of events touring cities annually with
podcasters hosting panels with the likes of Nolan Pasoca and Streaber.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we kind of get it though, don't we.
Speaker 3: And I think this is one of the issues with
the UAP topic or community now. I mean, back in
twenty twenty one, it was really quite united, and that
includes the social media presence as well. And there was
a lot of folks involved doing some really good work
who maybe don't do that anymore for various different reasons.
I mean, even back in the day, Stephen green Street
was one of the people championing the topic along with
Nick Pop believe it or not. And I think now
it's so much more. It's almost more compartmentalized that we
keep hearing everyone talk about. It was like you had
most folks behind Aluela Zondo, and then other folks came forward,
and now everyone seems so splintered, and often little groups
and militias and people don't trust each other, and it's
a much more fractured place. And that kind of goes
across the board. Everyone's got their own piece of the pie,
and people are a lot more wary of put themselves
into groups and clicks and you get them. And I've
just had Darcy Weir on not long ago talking about
his book The Cosmic Con his books, sorry, documentary, The
Cosmic Con. And you see, you see some of these
I won't name conferences, right, And it's no offense to them,
these people sitting at tables giving themselves awards every year
for best this or best that, and it's like, for
fuck's sake again, sorry folks, but the Scottish onmy comes
out sometimes. I just don't have a lot of time
for that kind of stuff, that kind of self aggrandize
and pats on the back well done as for being
you know in the US. And maybe it's a US thing, folks, apologies, right,
I'm going to I'm going to take a beat in here, probably,
But you know when you called something the World Series
or that the other world Champions, yet only folks in
the US can enter, Like, what's what's the point that?
And it seems like there's UFO groups that do the same,
where there's like a champion championing of themselves and they're
protecting whatever money they bring in. My Stephen Greer thoughts
he had a lot of good opinions, a lot of
good ideas, and over the years, as the money came
in and he realized he could really make good for
himself more power to them, he went with it. And
that's why he now shares pictures of the back of
chairs and claims aliens that only talk to him and
no one else. Remember that, folks, So yeah, I think
there could be a place I like that comic constyle idea,
But I think you would have to get a truly
good mix of people across that, and I don't know
if for all those people would allow their egos to
do that and be vulnerable. I've got ideas for shows.
I'm sure you'd be the same I would love to host.
Let me just pick some names out of hat. Louilazondo,
Stephen Greer, Danny Shean, Richard Dolan, and George Napp. Right,
give me the five of those live for three hours
on a podcast and let me direct questions at them
and for each other.
Speaker 4: Would any of those do that?
Speaker 3: Maybe some of them, but I tell you I know
someone that definitely wouldn't. And I think there's a and
that's not to benefit me. Put it on anyone's put
them on Rogan?
Speaker 2: Right, do that?
Speaker 4: Put them on Joe Rogan. They won't do that.
Speaker 3: And I think there's folks and that'll be another that
wouldn't talk to each other because they very quickly get
found out.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the whole sort of self aggrandizing thing and giving
giving people awards, I don't know, And where I come from,
we call that a circle jerk. So yeah, all right,
Now this question I really debated whether I wanted to
ask you on air. It's probably going to put you
in a really difficult spot, but you know, hey, it's
it's my job to ask.
Speaker 4: Difficult as it is that guy saying well no.
Speaker 1: Well okay, so and if you don't, if you if
you want to pass on this, I understand and I
hope still in an spat. Okay, this is from dub
Snapper forty seven eighty seven. Here it goes, and again,
pass on it if you want. Will Andy ever support
Celtic rather than Rangers?
Speaker 4: Absolute ridiculous question. No, I certainly will not.
Speaker 3: I'm a Ranger supporter. That's my football club, that's my team.
Celtic are not a nice club, delusional fan base. Thanks
to all those who sign up to my patren who
are Celtic fans and regularly remind me of it when
Rangers don't win. But right now things aren't too bad
and we've got a sugar daddy from the United States.
Funding is currently so thank you Andrew Kavana and his
multi billion dollar empire. So yeah, no, I will never
be a Celtic fan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, leave that one there here.
Speaker 2: All right, there you go.
Speaker 1: Okay, Louis Walcianca sevent three. Do you cover Rendallsham in
your book? Andy, I don't I think you about this.
I believe that I don't recall your answer.
Speaker 3: Oh that's a great question. I'm really fond of that question.
Off the top of my head. Having to look through
the book, I think the answer is yes, I do
in chapter fourteen. So yeah, I was thinking that was
that one of those that I didn't include, but I did, Yes,
So Rendall Schum is in there. I was really fortunate
to I've done a series called Encounters, which was not
me in the podcast. It was with another podcast company
and myself and another host went through over six or
eight episodes the Rendal Shum for his story, and we
had various folks.
Speaker 4: Was Nick Pope a part of that?
Speaker 3: He might have been, and I didn't interview him for it,
but Charles Halt was. When I view Charles Halt, and
there's a lot of great audio from him on that story.
So yeah, yeah, cover Rendal Shum. Really interesting, really interesting story.
A lot of misinformation over the years. I think a
lot of folks have tried to make money, make a
name off of that still to this day.
Speaker 4: But fascinating case.
Speaker 3: Something definitely happened there, something more than likely I believe
is extraterrestrial, and it's linked to the fact there was
nuclear weapons or on that base.
Speaker 2: Got it okay? On the show here.
Speaker 1: When we do do live shows, we're very fortunate to
have moderators that kind of keep things together in the
chat and that questions and whatnot. And this is from
one of our moderators, Duane. I wouldn't mind getting Andy's
take on Jim Lekatski's latest statement on weaponized of someone
lying to Congress if you.
Speaker 2: Basically he's saying.
Speaker 1: That, I think Lekatski said that if if you know
they're part of a SAP or whatever, that they can
lie to Congress if they choose, if they choose to.
Speaker 2: I think that's what he means by that.
Speaker 1: Curious if you have any any any thoughts about that
or Jim Jim Lekatski in general.
Speaker 3: For a start, I don't believe just because someone says
they are doing it under oath that makes any difference.
I think when you talk about things like legacy UAP
programs or high level cases of people being unalive drugs Epstein,
people will lie regardless of being under oath or not,
that makes no difference.
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't think. I know Lakatski has hinted.
Speaker 3: I know folks have a lot of folks online have
said he's talking about Elizondo. I know some folks have
said he was talking about Schellenberger when he was presenting
the Macculate constellation stuff that I know Jerry mccorbell was
thrilled about. So I'm guessing one of those two, or
he's hinting at Grush. Yeah, so I'm guessing it's one
of those three. Lakatski is a funny character because he's
he's been very coy. I was close to getting them
on my podcast, but it never happened through a through someone. Basically,
he keeps himself very much through weaponized and I get
that he's comfortable with George and George Napp's one of
the best people to ask these questions to be fair.
Speaker 4: So yeah, do.
Speaker 3: I think people have sat if I had answered it
more broadly? Do I think people have sat and lied
in front of Congress and these hearings, Yes, Brain Moulitiz
certain certainly did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, A big daddy run Ronald Moultriey is what
I like, what I like to call him.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, awesome, Well, thank you for being here.
Speaker 1: Of course the book is once again holding it up
here in just a beautiful book.
Speaker 2: This is definitely coffee table material.
Speaker 1: Just really fantastic atlas of unidentified flying objects and unidentified
anomalous phenomena. How can people find this lovely book? Purchase
this book.
Speaker 3: It's on all kinds of websites, including Barnes and Noble,
some really ethical selling companies. I know some folks are
against Amazon, but Amazon is the easiest place to get it.
If they buy it, please leave a review. If you
bought it already, leave a review. It's available on Kindle,
and it's on audiobooks soon, which I will be reading,
believe it or not. Yes, I am reading with this
accent and audiobook. So yeah, And even if you don't
read it, folks, great coffee table book. If your coffee
table has one of those wobbly legs, you can put
the book under it and it all kind of steady
it out.
Speaker 4: It's pretty sturdy.
Speaker 3: If any intruders break into your home, smack them over
the head with it.
Speaker 4: I'll do some damage.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's multipurpose, multi use book like it's like
the original iPad with infinity battery life.
Speaker 4: So yeah, go pick it up.
Speaker 1: Awesome, right, well, highly highly highly recommend it. And of
course your show, that UFO podcast. I imagine everyone can
find that on their favorite podcasting platform.
Speaker 4: Correct, Yeah, their favorites are the ones they hate.
Speaker 3: They all host it one and the same, so yeah,
thank you if they drop it a follow.
Speaker 2: Awesome, Andy, thank you, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: This has really been just fantastic, huge fan of your work,
a huge fan of this book. I encourage everyone to
certainly subscribe to your show, support your show, and.
Speaker 2: Buy this book.
Speaker 1: You know what a great way to open up the
conversation when you have friends and family over at your home,
then to have this sitting on the coffee table and
people can go through it and have a educated conversation
about this topic.
Speaker 2: So very much appreciate that.
Speaker 3: Awesome, And people can get signed copies of it if
they just contact me directly.
Speaker 4: You just have to pay the postage.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so there's that final plug to grift away
all right.
Speaker 1: Well, ended on that grifting note, all right, Well, next
time I see you, I'm sure you're going to be
living on some massive island with all of the money
that you've made off of this book, and I certainly
hope you'll pay for my airfare to come over there.
Speaker 3: Can I just say not Epstein's Island, not.
Speaker 1: Going there yet?
Speaker 4: I was not there.
Speaker 3: I was not on the island, but some other nondescript
island that does not have lots of young children other
than my own.
Speaker 4: So I just have to get out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1: Awesome, Well, Andy, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4: Thanks Matt, Okay, cool, all.
Speaker 2: Right, great, fantastic.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I just love love his work, and I
think one of the things that I love about Andy
is is he is just just a very genuine, humble
guy who's just doing a really great job at at
this at this topic. And then also I want to
say too, for those of you that have been watching
the show, we really appreciate it. If you're not subscribed,
please please hit that button, ring the bell, leave a comment,
give us a thumbs up. I know all that sounds
like a bunch of blowney.
Speaker 2: But but here's why it matters.
Speaker 1: YouTube sees all of that and basically says to itself. Hey,
maybe we should reckon The Good Trouble Show to people
who do not know it exists. And that's how all
of that works. And of course you can find us
on all of your favorite podcasting platforms if you'd like
to listen to us on the go. And last thing,
and I promise we have no sponsors on this show.
Speaker 2: Zero.
Speaker 1: We are completely kept alive entirely by people like you
who are watching. So if you want to help us
pay the studio rent here in La, super chats are
always open. I think you can always donate via Superchat
even after the show is done. And we are also
on Patreon at www dot patreon dot com forward slash
the Good Trouble Show and yeah, like I said, you
can support us with the super chats And anyway, just
a couple of thoughts and a bit unprepared today. We
had some technical issues right up until right up until
we were about to air, so I didn't really have
kind of the normal amount of time that I have
to prep on this on this kind of stuff, sort
of my exteporaneous thoughts. A couple of things regarding Trump
revealing anything on this I certainly hope that is the case.
I think that we are very fortunate to have members
of Congress such as Anna Paulina Luna, who I had
the pleasure of meeting personally backstage at real time with
Bill Maher and had a very extensive conversation with some
members of her staff regarding ARROW, the Pentagon's UFO office,
the All Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, and essentially I was
making the case that ARROW needed to be defunded. They
are not who they say they are. They cannot be trusted.
I think that you're going.
Speaker 2: To see some.
Speaker 1: Signs of collusion, if that's the right word, between doctor
Sean Kirkpatrick and the current Arrow, the current ARROW leadership.
I've mentioned on the show that I received even an
invitation to apply for a job from their recruiter. There.
Speaker 2: There actually was their recruiter. It's there.
Speaker 1: Their new contractor that runs everything. Uh it era excuse me,
Arow was is no longer run by uh by Blanket
on the Dame. That's what I get for trying to
do this on the fly.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: They are now run by a contractor called Arlow Arlow Solutions.
It is no longer the previous contractor, sand Corp. That's
what it is.
Speaker 2: Uh SANDCRP lost the job.
Speaker 1: Arrow basically fired them and it is now run by
Arlow Solutions, who uh and we're going to do an
episode about that coming up pretty soon. H Arlow actually
does the meat of the work. It appears at at
UH at Arrow, and it was Arlow Solutions that reached
out to me via LinkedIn and said, hey, we we
think you would be a good fit for this job.
Speaker 2: And of course part of the desired job.
Speaker 1: Qualifications was they wanted me to have the background in
information operations, information activities, and deception activities, which is essentially propaganda,
and that's what they were looking for. And as I
understand it, they actually reached out to another podcaster I
don't know who that is, but made a similar sort
of hey, we would love for you to apply to Arrow,
which of course I declined.
Speaker 2: I'm not.
Speaker 1: You know, if anyone knows me, I speak the truth.
I speak truth to power. I really don't give a
fuck what the powers of be think, be it at
the Pentagon, CIA or whatever, fuck them, As Ross Coltart says,
So the last thing I'm going to go do is
work for the Pentagon. You know this show, I'm pretty
much working for free and have the whole time. We
barely are able to pay our rent here at the studio.
Uh So even if they offered me a bajillion dollars
to go work for the Pentagon, uh there's no there's
there's no f and way that I would ever would
ever do that because at the end of the day,
we don't need people anymore, people lying to the public
about what is going on. And we know that that
is what the government, that is what the Pentagon, that
is what the CIA, that is what the National Security
uh uh national Security Council has done is continually lie
to the American public about what is going on with
the UFO UAP issue, as well as lying to Congress.
And and again, I just my head is off to
Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna. She's a Republican, I'm a Democrat,
but you know what, I have such immense respect for her.
We may not agree on every issue, being on different
sides of the aisle, but you know what we need,
We need more members of Congress by Congresswoman Luna. She
is not afraid to call it like is. She's not
afraid to call out the corruption that that exists on
both sides of the Aisle, Republican and Democrat. You know
this woman, Ay, she's she's brilliant. She is uh. I
think many people are some people under underestimate her. She
is a a brilliant lawmaker, a brilliant mind, a very
strategic thinker. Her her staff, they are they are absolutely wonderful.
And if if we didn't have people like Annapoline A
Luna out there pushing uh, the Trump administration to move
on this and understand, you know, she's got.
Speaker 2: To be careful politically for you know, for herself.
Speaker 1: She can't push the Trump administration so much so that
she catches heat from from the president. So she's really
walking a tight rope and I think she's done so
in just a very brilliant manner. And again, we are
very lucky to have members of Congress like ANNAPOLINEA A Luna.
We need more people like her in Congress. There are
far too many that are afraid to speak the truth,
are afraid to hold their administration on their side of
the aisle, that are afraid to hold their president president's
feet to the fire. And I think that she certainly
has done that in a very careful, strategic way. But yeah,
I just I just think that she's fantastic. Of course,
we have other members of Congress that are doing really
great work, such as Congressman Eric Berlason, Congressman.
Speaker 2: Tim Bershett. I love Tempershett. I've tried to get.
Speaker 1: Him on the show and have not had any luck
with that. But what I would say to Congressman Burshett,
if you are watching the show, and again I would
love to have you on as my guest. I have
a huge amount of respect for you as well. Is
I know that you put forth this legislation to defund Arrow,
which Annapolina Luna called for, and I'll just say that
my conversation had its intended effect with her staff. But
what I would say to Congressman Timbershett, firstly, thank you
for your advocacy and your fearlessness on this topic. You've
got balls of steel, my friend, and I really do,
really do respect that. But I and I don't have
the legislation in front of me. But as I understand it,
what Congressman Burshett is wanting to do is decentralize, get
rid of Arrow. But as I understand it, have it
exist in multiple places under the Department of War or
the Pentagon. And and I know this legislation is very
well meaning and much as Congressman of Luna and Congresswoman
Luna and Burlison, we are wildly, wildly grateful as a
nation to have lawmakers such as such as all of
you that are advocating for this. But what I would
say to Congressman Burshett, I hope you will reconsider this
is to put this problem set back under the purview
or to keep it within the purview of the Pentagon,
I think is a really, really big mistake. I say
this out with all due respect to Congressman Burshett. This problem,
the UAP problem set needs to be removed completely from
the Pentagon and placed under the Department of Homeland Security.
And for a couple of reasons. Number one, we know
that the Department of War. And it doesn't matter if
it's a Democrat in office or Republican in office, it
doesn't matter. It's the deep state, the deep staters that
have existed in the Pentagon. These guys, women and men
that sit in there for twenty years their entire career,
those are the folks in the Pentagon that are responsible
for really kind of where we're at. They are responsible
for the disinformation. They are responsible for the line to Congress,
They are responsible for this continuous shell game of how
they are hiding it from all of you in Congress.
And you know Anna Pauline a Luna, she has spoken
publicly about how doctor Sean Kerpatrick has lied under oath
two members of Congress. So, Congressman Burushette, I really would
encourage you to not put this, not keep it in
the Pentagon. I agree, got to get rid of Arrow.
It's a gigantic waste of money. I'll be doing an
episode on that soon. It's at gigantic waste of money.
But Congressman Bershette, to keep it in the Pentagon. Even
if you disperse it under different areas, it's going to
be the same thing. It's going to be more the
same bullshit, more the same line to all of you
in Congress, all these folks in the Pentagon laughing at
all of you in Congress behind your backs. That's just
the way it is. And the second thing I would
say is legally, legally, the UAP problem set is supposed
to be under the Department of Homeland Security. DHS has
the legal authority over this issue. If I did some
research on this. The land mass in the continental United
States that is under Pentagon control is something like I
think it was one point four percent, So one point
four percent of the entire land mass of the continental
United States, the United States of America is under Pentagon control.
The military bases, missile missile silos, and whatnot, the rest
of it where all of this UAP stuff is happening.
The Department of Homeland Security is responsible for all of that.
They are responsible for the defense, the oversight, the defense
of critical infrastructure of the United States airports, water treatment plants,
nuclear facilities, you name it. That is under the DHS purview.
So Congressman burshett I would encourage you to revise this
legislation and make the case which your staff will easily
find the laws that will support exactly what I'm telling
you right now, legislation that specifically puts the UAP problem
set under the Department of Homeland Security. That's where it belongs.
It needs to be removed from the Pentagon, from the
Department of War, to whatever extent it can be removed
from the Central Intelligence Agency, who is the major stakeholder
in this whole thing.
Speaker 2: It needs to be given to DHS. Yes, get rid
of Arrow.
Speaker 1: Arrow is a shit show. They're wasting taxpayer money like
you wouldn't believe. It is a disinformation operation. Arrow is
meant to make all of these congressional hearings go away.
Arrow is there to try and make all of you
in Congress look like fools for examining and holding hearings
on all this stuff. You got to get it away
from the Pentagon. They are going to lie to you
on a continual basis. They're going to continue to lie
to the American public so long as the UAP problem
set is under the Pentagon. Congressman Bushet Burlison, Luna, you
got to get it out of the Pentagon. You've got
to stick it in DHS. That's where it legally is
supposed to be. That is what the federal law states
in terms of the domains that that DHS is uh
IS is has oversight of. So so burshett a band, brother.
I love what you're doing. We are lucky to have
lawmakers such as yourself, Luna and Burlison. But but out
of with all due respects, sir, the legislation needs to
be changed such that the UAP problem set is taken
out of the Pentagon and put under DHS. So that's
enough enough of that. Finally, I just I asked Andy
this question earlier, and I think the question I have
to look at my notes, but but it essentially was
is there anything that you did believe when you first
got into this topic that after Andy has been at
this six years and done all of these wonderful shows
that now he believes And you know, he basically spoke
about the TIC TAC possibly being a drone type thing,
if you want to call it, that, some kind of
autonomously or intelligently controlled vehicle without having any kind of
living entity inside of it, which I thought was a
really fascinating point. I think he brought up some really,
really really great points there. For me, my personal journey
in this certainly has been the shock of seeing UAP
over twenty times. I've never seen a solid craft. It's
always been an orb that has been above my home.
But having experienced that, certainly, experiencing the kind of paranormal
stuff that came along.
Speaker 2: With it, which I had no idea about.
Speaker 1: All of that for me personally has been exciting, disturbing
all of that. But I think for me the one
thing that has disturbed me probably the most out of
all of this, and I think I've been doing this
only three years now, is the really bad things that
the United States government and in particular, some defense contractors
have done to American citizens, to men and women that
have worn the uniform that have dared to speak up
about this. I encourage all of you to go and
look at the episode I've weaponized. I think it was
a Dylan Borland that's about some of the just absolutely
absolutely criminal things that were done to him that very
easily could have have taken taken his life. I think
as well.
Speaker 2: Again, I'm on the left side of the aisle.
Speaker 1: I used to think that everything Trump said was a
bunch of bullshit until I found out that there is
a decent amount that he has said that is not bullshit.
Speaker 2: And one of those things is this deep state thing.
Speaker 1: Uh. It is true what this uh machine of unelected
bureaucrats that exists consistently from administration to administration. These these lifers,
these uh, these deputy assistants of or or deputy of
all of those folks that are that are a part
of this deep state machine. And when I say deep state,
I'm not trying to color it in in a in
a Trump way or a Republican way, because this deep
state thing is regardless of party, uh it. It doesn't
care who is in office, doesn't care if it's a
Republican or Democrat. This, this machine is there to control
this entire narrative. And it's also there to retaliate against whistleblowers,
against contract member of contractors, engineers, people that were that
were working for defense contractors that are are involved in
these waved under unacknowledged special access programs. This, this machine
is there to do some really horrible things to people.
I there's a lot that I do on this topic,
A great percentage of what I do that all of
you at home are not privy to. There's a lot
of behind the scenes stuff that I've involved with for
quite some time that I don't publicly speak about and
I will not speak about. And I have relationships with
many people in and out of the Department of Defense
and the intelligence community, current and former folks. And when
you when you get to know these people on a
personal level over many years, and you hear firsthand details
of things that have been done to these individuals that
the public is not aware of They may know, they
may be aware of that they've been harassed or things
like that, but they don't know the gritty details of
what has been done to destroy their lives, destroy their marriages,
destroy them financially, to either kill them or certainly endanger
their lives, or to try and mentally affect them.
Speaker 2: It's it's horrible stuff.
Speaker 1: And I'll be honest with you, there are a lot
of times that I say to myself, I wish I
didn't know what I know, because I think for me
it has made me very very sad about about what
is going on in the world is certainly what is
going on in the United States of America. And you know,
so when you when you have people like John Greenwald,
who you know I made made a comment a while
back on the show that if if something ever happens
to me, it wasn't suicide, it wasn't a petty crime,
it wasn't a a crash or a mechanical failure, it
wasn't drugs, it wasn't you know, alcohol, I don't don't
do any of that. John Greenwald went in and basically
fun of it and had some kind of asinine comment
that John Greenwald usually has anyway.
Speaker 2: But you know, here's the truth of the matter.
Speaker 1: And this is where I don't trust John Greenwald, and
I personally think he is some kind of shill for
the Deep Legacy program, is my personal opinion. I don't
think John Greenwald is who he says he is knowing
firsthand and hearing the pain and knowing firsthand what has
happened to people's health, what has happened to people's marriages.
Out of that, we're all a function of the retaliation
from this deep State, from these contractors. It's it's disturbing
and it's sad. And when I hear someone like John
Greenwald from the Black Vault, or Douglas Dene Johnson or
others who.
Speaker 2: Go in.
Speaker 1: Make light of it or belittle the people that have
had that kind of retaliation, it's sad and it really
makes you wonder why people like John Greenwald to do that,
or others why they seem to put a lot of
effort into discrediting whistleblowers and more importantly, discrediting concerns that
whistleblowers publicly talk about. It really makes you wonder who
they're working for, and remember, part of people that are
working in intelligence. They'll give they'll tell you fifty percent
that is true, maybe seventy five percent that is true.
That will help buttress their credibility. But then the twenty
five percent that they're putting out is intentional disinformation or
part of some kind of intelligence operation or whatever.
Speaker 2: And all I got to say is.
Speaker 1: The conversations that I have had with people who have
lost their spouses because the Air Force Office of Special
Investigation went in and specifically targeted their wives and through
whatever means, talk their wives into leaving their spouses. The
stories I won't say stories, because they're not stories.
Speaker 2: When I'm told about.
Speaker 1: Legacy Program security contractors, namely wacken Hut and the Pinkerton Group,
who are now two totally different renamed something Else, when
they're going into the homes of whistleblowers and rooting around
in their addicts, when they're placing tracking devices on their
spouse's cars, When when you know these engineers and whatnot
are receiving that kind of harassment is kind of a
message that you better shut the fuck up. All I
got to say to people like John Greenwald is you
can fuck right off. Because when people like Greenwald go
out there and say, you know, you know, put out
some bullshit post. So I can't believe Matt Ford is
saying this or whatever about you know, me feeling that
I need to publicly state that if something happens to me,
that it wasn't what you think it is, or what
the what the police might say it is or whatnot.
I'm one of many. I've been harassed once by the
intelligence community in Vegas at.
Speaker 2: The Waldorf Astoria.
Speaker 1: I've had that happen one time, and it scared the
shit out of me. But what I've experienced is nothing,
nothing compared to what these whistleblowers and engineers and others
have experienced.
Speaker 2: Nothing.
Speaker 1: So when you have people like John Greenwald going out
there and trying to throw cold water on it, he
can fuck right off. And I mean that in every
sense of the word, because it's a slap in the
face to the men and women who have done way
more for disclosure than John Greenwald and his black Vault thing,
way more. They have sacrificed, way more or for this
country and this democracy than John Greenwald will ever do
in the entirety of his life. And again, it's not
just Greenwald you're hearing this from Sean Kirkpatrick. You're hearing
this from Tim Phillips, You've heard this from Dean Johnson,
This concerted effort to do anything to discredit certain whistleblowers.
They're not just talking out of the side of their mouth.
It is intentional. So when you have people posting on
x that anybody going on and saying publicly, hey, if
something happens to me, it's not you know, I didn't
kill myself. Was an alcohol, wasn't drugs, It wasn't a
petty robbery, none of that stuff. When they go out
there and they're trying to throw cold water on that,
they can fuck right off because I know firstthand from
deep personal relationships with these individuals who have had just
about everything taken from them, their spouses, their retirements, their careers,
their security clearances, people cutting their brake lines, putting tracking
devices on their cars and their spouses cars. So when
John Greenwald goes out there and makes fun of it,
he can fuck right off. It's bullshit, and it is
a slap in the face to any man or woman
who has tried to do the right thing for this country.
People getting microwaved with havana syndrome because all of a sudden,
they're on the radar, and even not publicly on the radar,
but they're on the radar of these defense contractors, of
these defense contractors and their security contractors, and then they
end up getting microwaved and they end up having a
chemia or other physical ailments. This kind of stuff, folks,
is real. This isn't some fantasy thing. This isn't some
bullshit world that John Greenwald and others live in. This
is happening, and people are getting hurt. We're already hearing
about circumstances revolving around scientists and engineers and former people
in the from the military that are all of a
sudden disappearing. You have General mccasslan, there's a whole host
of people. Something is going on. I don't know what
it is, but it is not good.
Speaker 2: It is not it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not by chance. At this point, I certainly don't
believe in any coincidences, but what is happening with these
people that are former Air Force engineers for defense contractors
or for the ffrdcs of federally funded research and development centers.
I read just the other day another individual who worked
for a contractor that built or builds the majority of
many of the components used in our nuclear weapons disappeared.
He walked out of the house with nothing but his handgun,
and he's gone, this is happening.
Speaker 2: You have people like.
Speaker 1: Amy Estridge, who was a scientist an engineer in Huntsville Alley, Bama, who,
by the evidence I have seen, did not commit suicide.
Speaker 2: She was murdered.
Speaker 1: Someone who was being continually harassed by private contractors in
the United States for something like five years and she
lost her life. She was working on this whole anti
gravitic thing. And I have seen evidence related to this
that the public has not seen, and it is it's disturbing,
and it makes you realize that when you have have
people that speak up, scientists that work on anti gravity
or a whole host of things that the Northrop Grummings
of the world and the deep state and the Legacy
program do not want out. When you have people like
that that are fearless like Amy Eskridge was, who were
brilliant minds and had the method, had the scientific background
and knowledge to create these things. These contractors, the deep
Legacy program, that's a threat to them, that's a threat
to their revenue. That is a threat to their livelihood,
that is a threat to their place in the power structure.
And when you have someone like her that if you
go and you watch some of her live stream interviews
she did one with her boyfriend, I want you to
listen to the people that she talks about and the
work she was doing, And when you listen to it,
it is crystal clear she was going to be a
threat to a lot of people in power. And it
is crystal clear that she wasn't being targeted by China
or Russia. She was living in a town that is
the epicenter of all development of technology for our intelligence community,
our space, military and space programs, missileed fence. This town, Huntsville,
is teeming with people from the FBI because that town
is also teaming with spies from our foreign adversaries, from China,
from Russia. So, in a town that has who knows
thousands of FBI agents running counterintelligence operations against all of
these spies that are in there, to come in and
do things like sit at bars and listen to engineers
and scientists talk about things that maybe they shouldn't be
talking about in a non classified setting. You have a
town that is teaming with FBI agents, and yet you
have a scientist who is being systematically harassed, her home
being broken into, or apartment being broken into, her friends
being their residence is being broken into, and calling cards
being left. And I can tell you again the people
that I speak to all the time that all of
you at home will probably never know about what I
have learned from them, and the retaliation that they have received,
and the particular calling cards that are left in their
homes by these members from these security contractors working for
Northrop Grumman and others.
Speaker 2: It all completely.
Speaker 1: Matches with the stuff that I've certainly read about Amy
Estridge and things that I have seen that the public
has not been privy to. There is zero doubt in
my mind she was murdered, and there is zero doubt
my mind that it was from Americans. It was not
from our foreign adversaries. So I say all of this
to say this and there and there will be more
that that you're going to be hearing from myself on
this on the particular topic of Amy Estridge. But I
say all of that to say that people's lives are
being threatened, their way of living is being threatened, their
marriages are being threatened, their physical safety is being threatened.
This happens, and this continues to happen, and Members of
Congress that are watching, this is something that you got
to look into because our democracy cannot survive with this
kind of stuff going on. This is not the America
I want to be living in, and I would venture
to guess all of you watching at home don't want
to live in either. But people their lives are in jeopardy,
and this has got to come to a stop. Anyway, folks,
thanks for tuning in. Thank you very much to our
mods for volunteering their time today. I truly truly appreciate it.
And again, if you enjoy our program, please hit the
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Speaker 2: So anyway, thanks tuning in.
Speaker 1: I hope everyone has a wonderful, wonderful Sunday, and I
can't announce the guests that we will have this coming Sunday,
but it's gonna be big, so you're gonna want to
tune in, tell your friends about our show, and thanks
for tuning in.