Speaker 1: And so this is all on kind of the investing
Speaker 1: side of the house and then on the building side
Speaker 1: of the house. You know, it really started with that
Speaker 1: tokenized money market fond. And yeah, so the term benji
Speaker 1: relates to, you know, one Benji token is one share
Speaker 1: of ownership in this money market fond that that's on
Speaker 1: chain and fully on chain, No, no duplicate.
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Speaker 2: will be in a description. Hey, folks, welcome into the
Speaker 2: Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and joining
Speaker 2: me today is Christopher Jensen, who is the director of
Speaker 2: Digital acid Research for Franklin Templeton. Christopher, great to have.
Speaker 3: You, Thanks Tony. Happy to be here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Christopher, I'm excited to speak with you. Franklin Templeton
Speaker 2: is certainly a power player and on Wall Street, and
Speaker 2: you've launched some very interesting digital asset tools, products, services
Speaker 2: and much more, and I want to dive into that.
Speaker 2: Let's kick it off with your background. Tell us a
Speaker 2: bit about yourself and your professional background.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: So, I guess, like several both my firm and across
Speaker 1: some of our peers, you know, I do have a
Speaker 1: Tratify background, so you know, always been involved on the
Speaker 1: byside principal investing for about twenty years now, a lot
Speaker 1: of that in credit private credit, you know in particular,
Speaker 1: and then for the last probably eight really at this
Speaker 1: technic intersection of technology and finance, and so you know,
Speaker 1: we were doing a lot of the early fintech activities
Speaker 1: for the firm for Franklin and you know, I think
Speaker 1: once you're at that tip of the spear, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of technology and finance, and you're you're kind
Speaker 1: of deep in fintech and and then you start to see,
Speaker 1: you know, what blockchains can do. You know, I guess
Speaker 1: over time it went from like ninety nine percent fintech
Speaker 1: one percent crypto, and now it's you know, one hundred
Speaker 1: percent uh crypto. But I think I I first got
Speaker 1: the bug slightly later than you did. It was twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: really just started kind of reading white papers paying attention.
Speaker 1: I did wait for the new kind of tax you
Speaker 1: of twenty eighteen to actually you know, dip dip the
Speaker 1: toes in and yeah, the you know, once once, once
Speaker 1: you do that first swap. And for me it was
Speaker 1: actually uh getting involved in some of those early Web
Speaker 1: three video games was that was that was a pretty.
Speaker 3: Interesting aha moment. And you know, once you once you
Speaker 3: get kind of get crypto pilled, right, you know, it was,
Speaker 3: uh the rest is history. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Now, with your plethora of experience in the trad fire
Speaker 2: world and uh this technology comes along, do you see
Speaker 2: it as a natural evolution of of the Internet and
Speaker 2: the way we are going to operate markets and things
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I'm kind of in the camp that it's
Speaker 1: both an evolution and upgrade to the Internet. I love
Speaker 1: that phrase that, Like one of the original sense of
Speaker 1: the of the Internet, right is that it didn't have
Speaker 1: the ability to send money. You know, you can send
Speaker 1: an email anywhere in the world permissionlessly, but you know,
Speaker 1: you can't do that with money. And I think at
Speaker 1: the time it was too hard of a you know,
Speaker 1: computer science problem, the double spending problem.
Speaker 3: And but you know, since.
Speaker 1: Then, with cryptography and blockchains, we've we've figured that out, right,
Speaker 1: So I do think, you know, it's an upgrade to
Speaker 1: the Internet, and I always get a shout out to
Speaker 1: you know, a Christison's Read write own and that kind
Speaker 1: of mental model.
Speaker 3: I think that's that's wonderful.
Speaker 1: Uh, as well as though an upgrade to our financial system,
Speaker 1: and so obviously a Frankel Tembleton. You know, we've kind
Speaker 1: of been sitting at the at the nexus of this,
Speaker 1: you know, having over eighty years kind of you know
Speaker 1: doing investment management, asset management on a global scale, and
Speaker 1: so that that involves lots of ledgers, lots of you know,
Speaker 1: middle ops and backups, and and dealing with lots of
Speaker 1: different ways to move money and value around the world
Speaker 1: and with respect to clients and assets.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And so I think when we saw blockchain technology, right,
Speaker 1: it really was an AHA moment on the financial system
Speaker 1: upgrade side just as much as it was on the
Speaker 1: internet upgrade side.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, So maybe you could take us behind the curtain
Speaker 2: a bit, because I'm very fascinated as to what your
Speaker 2: R and D process looks like when it comes to
Speaker 2: looking at new technology like blockchain. So let's say, you know,
Speaker 2: you guys don't make decisions overnight. It's not like, oh,
Speaker 2: here's bitcoin, let's right away start something. But I'm sure
Speaker 2: there's a lot of trial and error testing happening. So
Speaker 2: Walk goes through kind of the methodology of how you
Speaker 2: look at blockchain and these new technologies and new blockchains
Speaker 2: that are popping up in the market to look at
Speaker 2: to integrate them into your systems.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: So the order of the story there, and I can't
Speaker 1: remember if my colleague Sandy call had gone into I'll
Speaker 1: touch on it briefly, but you know, be coming out
Speaker 1: of that kind of fintech roots, you know, for us,
Speaker 1: we originally were running a validator on the Provedance blockchain right,
Speaker 1: which it tazes back to, you know, kind of figure
Speaker 1: and Mike Cagney, who was the founder of Lending Club
Speaker 1: and so far. So we were running a validator on
Speaker 1: a blockchains, as one does, and you end up with
Speaker 1: you know, native coin on your balance sheet, and so
Speaker 1: in this case, in the case of the Problenance blockchain,
Speaker 1: we end up with a bunch of hash and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it was like, you know, what
Speaker 1: is this new type of asset a token?
Speaker 3: You know, it's on our balance sheet? What what is
Speaker 3: it worth?
Speaker 1: And and so once once you kind of you know,
Speaker 1: start pulling on that threat a little bit, a whole
Speaker 1: host of questions opens up. And so, you know, I
Speaker 1: think initially it was the combination of you know, necessity,
Speaker 1: we have to figure out how to what this is
Speaker 1: and how to value you know, value it as well
Speaker 1: as you know, then you know, what can we do
Speaker 1: with it? So I think from a very early point
Speaker 1: in our kind of digital asset arc, I think we
Speaker 1: realized the need that hey, there's a really powerful technology here,
Speaker 1: and being a global asset manager, like what can we
Speaker 1: do with that technology?
Speaker 3: And like is it a threat or is it an
Speaker 3: opportunity or is it both and so?
Speaker 1: And then we also recognized that, hey, you have this
Speaker 1: totally nascent, you know, the buddings of what could be
Speaker 1: an acid class, and you know, fast forward today and
Speaker 1: it really does seem like a legitimate its own acid class.
Speaker 1: At the time, it was just like, hey, maybe it could,
Speaker 1: you know. And so I think from inception, there were
Speaker 1: these two sides to our business. It was a curiosity
Speaker 1: to what can this technology do? And then a curiosity
Speaker 1: to of, hey, if this involve evolves into like a
Speaker 1: new type of acid. I mean, that's that's pretty unique
Speaker 1: and special because it's not every day that that a
Speaker 1: new acid class comes around, right, So I think I
Speaker 1: think that was the genesis, the origin story.
Speaker 3: And then and then you know, I'll kick it back
Speaker 3: to you.
Speaker 1: We can talk about, you know, how we kind of
Speaker 1: evolved the ball or advanced the ball and I are
Speaker 1: those two initiatives.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's so fascinating because it seems, to your point,
Speaker 2: we couldn't tell what this was initially, right, Is it
Speaker 2: just blockchain and just rails? Or is also an asset class?
Speaker 2: And it seems like it's both right, just tech, this
Speaker 2: next layer on the Internet, but also this new asset
Speaker 2: classes introduced UH to it, and I remember folks were
Speaker 2: trying to go the private permission blockchain space where no
Speaker 2: need for a token, But I think more folks are
Speaker 2: realizing public blockchains are the way you do need the
Speaker 2: token to kind of grease the wheels and make sure
Speaker 2: everything works.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I remember us having some early conversations around
Speaker 1: that that very topic and actually publishing some research around
Speaker 1: our thoughts on you know, public blockchains and this this
Speaker 1: sort of thing. I think, you know, giving a lot
Speaker 1: of credit to our own in house blockchain engineers, and
Speaker 1: you know, just kind of big fans of open source
Speaker 1: software and the importance of that and prior technological movements.
Speaker 1: So I think realizing just how battle tested, you know,
Speaker 1: open source code can be, and then the way that
Speaker 1: the stack works. I think you can you can build
Speaker 1: permission save, permission DeFi applications, you know, on a permission
Speaker 1: list chain, right, but it's it's harder to do the opposite, right,
Speaker 1: So I think from the onset, yeah, we gravitated towards
Speaker 1: these these public chains and you know right now are
Speaker 1: building on I mean, I think it's I think it's
Speaker 1: upwards of ten you know, public blockchains and running. You know,
Speaker 1: it's done all these chains too, So that idea of
Speaker 1: building on them, specifically on public blockchains and supporting consensus
Speaker 1: and validating transactions, you know, very very important us to
Speaker 1: support these networks. And then as we think about new
Speaker 1: products to either put on those chains or how do
Speaker 1: you how do you then package some of these exposures
Speaker 1: so that clients who we are interested in getting access
Speaker 1: to this technology, they have a kind of a menu
Speaker 1: of options for them as well.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you can speak to this because
Speaker 2: it kind of gets behind the scenes, but there is
Speaker 2: some disruption that this technology brings, right. It makes things
Speaker 2: more efficient, can lower costs and so forth. But let's
Speaker 2: say a business that Franklin Tembleton runs. Maybe this eats
Speaker 2: away at some of your revenue and you're not the
Speaker 2: only one Fidelity and all the other players, right, black
Speaker 2: Rock and so forth. But is there kind of a
Speaker 2: initial hit to let's say revenue, But then you find
Speaker 2: new revenue avenues with the technology, like being able to
Speaker 2: tokenize certain market money market funds, and that recoups the revenue.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that makes sense, but yeah, it
Speaker 3: totally does.
Speaker 1: And I think from that investor mindset, which is really like,
Speaker 1: you know, first and foremost, you know, I'm an investor, we.
Speaker 3: Have all the buildings on our side of the platform.
Speaker 1: You know, that's not me. I'm more of the you know,
Speaker 1: investing mindset. So when I'm looking at like this technology
Speaker 1: or any one of these protocols, like I'm constantly asking, like,
Speaker 1: what really is the value proposition here? And to your point,
Speaker 1: is the technology here cost savings exercise or is there
Speaker 1: something new that can be done with it, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of enhance you or an additional revenue line.
Speaker 1: You know, So is that value proposition strictly on the
Speaker 1: cost side or is it also on this you know,
Speaker 1: additive revenue generating side. And so I think with respect
Speaker 1: to our own business, it was first and foremost like, wow,
Speaker 1: if we can bring the transfer agent function on chain,
Speaker 1: you know, we can reduce a lot of those costs.
Speaker 3: And again, you know, we have.
Speaker 1: Funds and you know, stakeholders all over the world, right,
Speaker 1: so there's a lot of there's a lot of kind
Speaker 1: of you know, leakage in the global financial system, and
Speaker 1: certainly as being a player, like you know, we know
Speaker 1: this all too well.
Speaker 3: So there was a little bit of a light bulb
Speaker 3: going off there.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, you know, not only by
Speaker 1: bringing something like a tokenized money market fund on chain
Speaker 1: and realizing those those costs, we realize that, you know,
Speaker 1: blockchains afford new use cases and this idea of programmable
Speaker 1: composable money allows you to just do things that you
Speaker 1: couldn't do before. So this concept of day yield, right,
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't really exist in the old model,
Speaker 1: but now I could pay interest out daily every second, right,
Speaker 1: and so if we transfer it, the yield goes with it.
Speaker 1: That concept of intra day yield is something new and
Speaker 1: really enabled by the blockchain, right. And then you know,
Speaker 1: you hear from the payments, you know, folks, you know
Speaker 1: they're super interested because you can do streaming payments and
Speaker 1: micro payments and programmable payments, and you know, by leveraging
Speaker 1: smart contracts. So this idea of yes, it can bring
Speaker 1: down costs and maybe in certain use cases, yeah, maybe
Speaker 1: our firm is some of those costs. But I think
Speaker 1: it also enhances what you can do with money and value,
Speaker 1: and so that leads to kind of new revenue lines
Speaker 1: which are pretty exciting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And to your point of new revenue lines,
Speaker 2: does it open up more liquidity to come into certain
Speaker 2: funds and products that you have because it's on the blockchain,
Speaker 2: it's trading twenty four to seven and for the first time,
Speaker 2: we can have truly global markets because let's say, I know,
Speaker 2: certain legislations being figured out, you know how we're going
Speaker 2: to handle all these things with global markets twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven trading tokenization. But let's say someone in Africa
Speaker 2: and a country in Africa who couldn't access these products before,
Speaker 2: they have a smartphone, They've got some cash and they're like,
Speaker 2: what I like what Franklin Templeton's offering here, and they
Speaker 2: can do it because of the blockchain and they don't
Speaker 2: have to go through all the crazy red tape that
Speaker 2: was there before.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love those examples, right because you are democratizing access.
Speaker 1: And I think one theme right now is you know,
Speaker 1: democratize and say alternatives.
Speaker 3: But here we're just talking.
Speaker 1: About you know, with us with a smartphone and an
Speaker 1: Internet connection, you can have access to basic banking you
Speaker 1: know that you wouldn't have in those parts of the world.
Speaker 1: So it really is you know, powerful and as we
Speaker 1: think of, you know, kind of where the where the
Speaker 1: world and the industry are headed. And you know if really,
Speaker 1: you know, I just have this wallet that I take
Speaker 1: with me, you know, to you know, and we Sandy
Speaker 1: always talks about moving from that account view to the
Speaker 1: wallet view, and I just think that is that is
Speaker 1: one hundred percent where you know, to use the analogy
Speaker 1: and the puck is headed here and and and the
Speaker 1: assets that you'll hold in that wallet will be you know,
Speaker 1: your your your existing traditional assets, they'll be your cryptonative assets.
Speaker 1: And then there's you know, kind of hybrid acids too,
Speaker 1: and maybe it's your cultural assets. But again it's in
Speaker 1: this wallet that you take with you. You own your data,
Speaker 1: you take them with you, and that that's pretty powerful
Speaker 1: no matter where you are in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I think a lot about that,
Speaker 2: the idea of the wallet replacing maybe some of the
Speaker 2: legacy things that we have with account numbers, and you
Speaker 2: know exactly what Sandy said, and then that wallet being
Speaker 2: interoppable with my devices, my car and it's so it's
Speaker 2: like anywhere I go it's sharing pulling from the same wallet.
Speaker 2: I paid a toll and driving on the highway. U
Speaker 2: my fridge does something right, all these little updates that
Speaker 2: are done and it's coming seating from the same wallet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely. I think you know, since this industry kind
Speaker 1: of got started, people were imagining what could the actual
Speaker 1: total addressable market be for blockchain technology, and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever those wild estimates were at the beginning,
Speaker 1: like you start to realize that, yeah, you could actually
Speaker 1: provide a digital signature, you know, not just for for assets,
Speaker 1: but there are financial assets, but for for capital assets,
Speaker 1: for you know, a whole host of things. You know,
Speaker 1: as we just it gets to it's not just the
Speaker 1: financial system. As the Internet gets upgraded with this technology,
Speaker 1: and I think as it becomes abstracted away, right, it
Speaker 1: just becomes part of our infrastructure and it affords us,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of new tools. So I do think
Speaker 1: that that addressable market, you know, it is quite bigger,
Speaker 1: maybe we than we all initially imagine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, some of it seems like things some
Speaker 2: of the movies and you know, how everything will be
Speaker 2: connected IoT a crypto blockchain. It seems we're at the well,
Speaker 2: I've been talking about it a lot, Fourth Industrial Revolution.
Speaker 2: You have the convergence of all these technologies and they
Speaker 2: compliment each other and uh, you know, I was just
Speaker 2: interviewing someone who's working on robots and AI and they're
Speaker 2: looking to integrate blockchain, and yeah, robots are not gonna
Speaker 2: use cash.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: If we're gonna have robots in our homes or in
Speaker 2: the factories ten years from now, they're gonna probably have
Speaker 2: a built in wallet and use stable coins or some
Speaker 2: digital money.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and especially I mean robots, I think I think
Speaker 1: it's something physical tangible. But even as agents, you know,
Speaker 1: working on your behalf online right, Absolutely, I doubt we're
Speaker 1: going to see a siation you know, fun fun wires around.
Speaker 1: It's it's probably you know, micro payments, you know, riding
Speaker 1: around on blockchain rails.
Speaker 3: So I think that is the way it's added.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Before we go further, I want folks to know
Speaker 2: as much as possible what Franklin Temple is doing with crypto,
Speaker 2: blockchain and so forth. Can you run through all the
Speaker 2: initiatives you have running going on right now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: I'll start on the investment side of the house and
Speaker 1: then we'll get to the building side of the house
Speaker 1: in case you want to a double click on any
Speaker 1: of that. So look on the on the investing side,
Speaker 1: I think you know, we're our kind of mindset or
Speaker 1: our philosophy is is, you know, how do you develop
Speaker 1: kind of a full menu, right to offer exposure to
Speaker 1: this underlying technology. So, you know, we're one of the
Speaker 1: ETF players, and we're really excited about, like, you know,
Speaker 1: the spot ETF market in the US. It's you know,
Speaker 1: we still only have the two approve, but it looks
Speaker 1: like more are common. We're excited for this kind of
Speaker 1: hybrid space of taking the crypto native assets and kind
Speaker 1: of wrapping them in that traditional ETF wrapper and offering.
Speaker 3: Them out to clients. Right.
Speaker 1: Uh, So that's exciting. I think we'll see a lot
Speaker 1: more there. And then we think of that too as
Speaker 1: like a form of low cost beta, right. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's just so many good things about ets but as
Speaker 1: you get your toes, you know, you different toes in
Speaker 1: sometimes you want you know, act management and something more discretionary.
Speaker 3: And so there we kind of are thinking.
Speaker 1: About the world in terms of okay, there's venture capital
Speaker 1: on the one side, and then you have you know,
Speaker 1: active management to figure out that whole tale of the
Speaker 1: long tail of kind of crypto assets, you know, the tokens.
Speaker 3: So we have kind of private.
Speaker 1: Funds and those offerings, and so this is all on
Speaker 1: kind of the investing side of the house and then
Speaker 1: on the building side of the house. You know, it
Speaker 1: really started with that token iszed money market fund, and yeah,
Speaker 1: so the front the term benji relates to, you know,
Speaker 1: one Benji token is one share of ownership in this
Speaker 1: money market fund that that's on chain and fully on chain. No,
Speaker 1: no duplicate you know, books and records off chain.
Speaker 3: It's it's it's fully on chain.
Speaker 1: And so I think it you know, it started with
Speaker 1: that and really on one blockchain, one product, you know,
Speaker 1: and so I guess kind of fast forward, and you
Speaker 1: couldn't do much with it. It was really like you know,
Speaker 1: it was it was fiat currency going in and you
Speaker 1: can buy it and you could hold it, right, And
Speaker 1: so you know where we've kind of come from there
Speaker 1: is is expanding the number of blockchains that we're on,
Speaker 1: so kind of meeting the client where they're at.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I think we're on you know.
Speaker 1: Called it eight eight plus you know blockchains right now,
Speaker 1: public blockchains, uh, and and then increasing the functionality so
Speaker 1: that concept of inter day yield, then the concept of
Speaker 1: being able to transfer this security token back and forth
Speaker 1: between us. You know, these are things that we're added later,
Speaker 1: like the ability to go to swap you know, your
Speaker 1: stable coins into into Benji rather than just use you know,
Speaker 1: go Fiat into it. So I think we're trying to
Speaker 1: enhance utility for the token. And then in parallel to
Speaker 1: putting on more blockchains and different ecosystems on the crypto side,
Speaker 1: we also want to in more jurisdictions around the world.
Speaker 3: So it was this interesting, you.
Speaker 1: Know, how do you bring this to more places on
Speaker 1: chain and how do you bring it to more places
Speaker 1: around the world, and all while doing it in a
Speaker 1: regulatory compliant way. So I think a lot of the
Speaker 1: effort has been creating those pathways from a technological standpoint
Speaker 1: and a regulatory standpoint. And now that you know, we
Speaker 1: we kind of know how to do that, you can
Speaker 1: you can think about other funds or products or or
Speaker 1: services that can travel through these same channels, right, So,
Speaker 1: you know, I think in terms of roadmap there's still
Speaker 1: low hanging fruit to do with with Benji itself.
Speaker 3: That the use case that Benji's also evolved. It originally was.
Speaker 1: Kind of more used for treasury management, for for you know,
Speaker 1: crypto firms for instance, dows and protocols, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: It was used as as some some payments, and now
Speaker 1: it's really seen a lot of use as as collateral.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of an exciting use case that
Speaker 1: that's that's evolved, right, So, you know, excited with where
Speaker 1: that's headed. And I think the idea, the broader idea
Speaker 1: of this, you know, tokenization of real world assets putting
Speaker 1: them on chain, that is the opposite of the etfisation
Speaker 1: of the crypt of native assets and bringing that off chain, right,
Speaker 1: So we think we think we're coming at it from
Speaker 1: both sides and and and that whole space will just
Speaker 1: continue to kind of evolve in and be pretty interesting.
Speaker 3: Oh for sure.
Speaker 2: You mentioned there's about eight to ten blockchains that you've launched.
Speaker 2: They took a nice fund on how what goes through
Speaker 2: the process of selecting a blockchain? Are you looking at security, liquidity,
Speaker 2: the amount of users and activity and things like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I say that's a great question because it really
Speaker 1: highlights kind of the synergy between different parts of our
Speaker 1: digital assets platform. So you know, on the one hand,
Speaker 1: you have the pure you know kind of technology like
Speaker 1: any any web three founders thinking about what you should
Speaker 1: I build on? And so you know they're absolutely approaching
Speaker 1: it from what is the you know, what's the programming
Speaker 1: language and the tech stack, and what's our you know,
Speaker 1: security of the chain look like you know, when it
Speaker 1: was the last you know kind of downtime incident and
Speaker 1: that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: And then there's the you know, well, where are where
Speaker 3: are the users?
Speaker 1: You know, where's where's the capital that actually desires you know,
Speaker 1: an on chain money market fund, and and what's the
Speaker 1: growth of these various ecosystems and so, you know, on
Speaker 1: the on the investment side, we're trying to figure out,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, which of these protocols are gaining
Speaker 1: market share or losing market share?
Speaker 3: What are those native coins worth? You know, so we're looking.
Speaker 1: At you know, user cohorts and retention and fee activity
Speaker 1: and you know all of that, right. And then on
Speaker 1: the building side, you know, you know, they're and we're
Speaker 1: doing this kind of in conjunction. They're going through smart
Speaker 1: contract audits and and and talking to developers and that
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and so we kind of come together
Speaker 1: to really talk about, you know, where where should we
Speaker 1: go next? Right, And a lot of the work that
Speaker 1: we do on the investment side helps inform that process
Speaker 1: and and vice versa.
Speaker 2: And then I'm sure there's some similarities to the ETF
Speaker 2: products selecting new all coins to launch products around. I
Speaker 2: believe you folks have Solana, x RP and some others
Speaker 2: applications in play. You probably can't talk much about it,
Speaker 2: but I'm just curious the methodology there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, it's it is quite so similar.
Speaker 1: And there we get a further collaboration between you know,
Speaker 1: our our kind of traditional ETF colleagues and the digital
Speaker 1: assets team. So, you know, I think the whole launch
Speaker 1: of the ETF was was such an amazing kind of
Speaker 1: collaboration right between tradify and kind of DeFi and I
Speaker 1: think as as people are thinking through, you know, how
Speaker 1: do you do some of these ETFs as a staked version.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that's super interesting, right because there's
Speaker 1: just a lot of open questions that need to be
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, figured out, and that really does
Speaker 1: take the combination of you know, people who understand it,
Speaker 1: you know, crypto natively and from our say note operations
Speaker 1: perspective to you know, how do you integrate this into
Speaker 1: you know, trad FI because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: it's it's an ETF and you know it's going to
Speaker 1: have to have liquidity and that sort of thing. So
Speaker 1: it's a it's a great kind of collaborative discussion there.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you mentioned uh, you know some of the
Speaker 1: ones we have in application and then and the ones
Speaker 1: in kind of production you know, Bitcoin Ethereum, and then we.
Speaker 3: Also have easyps.
Speaker 1: It's it's uh, it does kind of a market cap
Speaker 1: weight of the two of them in the ideas is
Speaker 1: more get approved, Right, this thing could evolve and start
Speaker 1: to look like almost like an index fund, you know
Speaker 1: of crypto.
Speaker 2: You know, in the early days of crypto, and I
Speaker 2: considered myself an early adopter, the way to get access
Speaker 2: to this acid class was simply going to coinbase or
Speaker 2: some exchange, buying the asset, uh keeping it on coin
Speaker 2: based or putting on a hardware wallet.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: But now with these ETF products, do you belie if
Speaker 2: these will become the biggest on ramps given that there's
Speaker 2: already an infrastructure in TRADFI, retirement accounts and all these things.
Speaker 2: Uh R I A S and both managers are gonna
Speaker 2: say they're not gonna buy it directly for the climb
Speaker 2: or go through the ETF route. Do you think the
Speaker 2: ETF has become the biggest on ramp for this asset class.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they become one of the big ones.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's so fascinating because I think there
Speaker 1: are like pros and cons to all these different rappers, right,
Speaker 1: and so while someone I mean, you have to you
Speaker 1: have to choose one first, right, And so you know,
Speaker 1: I know plenty of people as I'm sure you do.
Speaker 1: You know, they they first came into this, you know,
Speaker 1: through kind of self custody or through or through a
Speaker 1: centralized exchange or but but now they're coming in, you know,
Speaker 1: through the ETF. But they start there and then I
Speaker 1: think and maybe they start with bitcoin, right, and just
Speaker 1: like once you start with bitcoin, for why, you kind
Speaker 1: of get curious about some other things too. I think
Speaker 1: once you start with one of these rappers and understand
Speaker 1: and it's pros and cons, you realize, yeah, there's there's
Speaker 1: benefits to these all these different kind of rappers and avenues.
Speaker 1: And so I don't think one is gonna kind of
Speaker 1: trump you know, others, so to speak, or be like
Speaker 1: the end all be all, But I think you'll see
Speaker 1: people use these for different you know reasons, so you
Speaker 1: know when it when it's uh spot, you know, even
Speaker 1: on an exchange, right. But you know, right now, we
Speaker 1: don't have a wash sale rule for crypto if it's
Speaker 1: in an ETF, though, I can put that into a
Speaker 1: tax advantaged account, you know obviously with respect to do
Speaker 1: I need to memorize.
Speaker 3: My my keys or not? Am I okay? You know?
Speaker 1: So am I really okay with self custody? Or am
Speaker 1: I okay? Having someone help me with that?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: With ETF's kind of easier to you know, write covered calls.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's just so many different kind of
Speaker 1: nuances to all these different you know, kind of rappers
Speaker 1: and having that that crypto exposure sitting next to my
Speaker 1: my traditional assets, you know again because we're still in
Speaker 1: that account view world, not fully in the wall at
Speaker 1: view world yet, but uh.
Speaker 3: Heading there right.
Speaker 1: So I think I think there's pros and cons of
Speaker 1: all these different you know kind of avenues channels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. And then the second question was you
Speaker 2: mentioned the index and right now just bitcoin and ether,
Speaker 2: but as the other all coin ETFs get approved, we
Speaker 2: can see those assets get added to the index ETF
Speaker 2: and what we've seen in the for a long time,
Speaker 2: you know, the index have performed better or they're larger
Speaker 2: than the individual socks, so you can get exposure to
Speaker 2: S and P five hundred or the NASDAC. Do you
Speaker 2: think it's going to be the same thing where these
Speaker 2: index ETFs become larger than the individual ETFs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they they certainly could, I think, Uh, you know,
Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see because unlike a company that
Speaker 1: can say, you know, go bankrupt, you know, a protocol
Speaker 1: and it's market cab. It can it can hang out
Speaker 1: around right through cycles and maybe maybe there's some you know,
Speaker 1: market cap erosion to some of its competitors, but it
Speaker 1: can still have a decent valuation for for quite a while.
Speaker 1: So it'll be interesting to see if you know, if
Speaker 1: the if an index that just takes all of these
Speaker 1: you know whatever whatever happens to be in the top
Speaker 1: ten without any kind of overlay or rule based system
Speaker 1: or or any kind of discretion around it. You know,
Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see if those really take off
Speaker 1: or or if it will continue to be kind of
Speaker 1: like it is in the spot market, where you know,
Speaker 1: maybe not tribal is not the right word, but you know,
Speaker 1: there's definitely camps that have their favorite you know, ecosystem
Speaker 1: we're going and so I wonder iful we'll see that
Speaker 1: kind of loyalty with respect to the ETF options as
Speaker 1: as we see you know, with holding it. You know,
Speaker 1: spot that'll be interesting. And then I think to your
Speaker 1: to your question about the e t F as a
Speaker 1: type of buyer and you know, growing in size and
Speaker 1: where will that go? And I think that's super fascinated
Speaker 1: to keep an eye on it. And then obviously in
Speaker 1: recent news, we have a new type of buyer, the
Speaker 1: corporation or the digital ass of treasury company. And it's
Speaker 1: really these two types of buyers almost in tandem, right
Speaker 1: that the ETF complex on the one side, and now
Speaker 1: this group of you know, treasury companies on the other side,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of buying up. And it's making this
Speaker 1: cycle feel a little different. It's feeling a little bit
Speaker 1: more you know, institutional than perhaps prior cycles. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess the nature of that marginal buyer is changing,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of this time around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely feels like institutions are leading the charge
Speaker 2: this time around, not to say, retail is not involved,
Speaker 2: and I believe retail is going to be coming I
Speaker 2: think soon as this market heats up into the fall.
Speaker 2: But it feels like institutions are leading the charge here
Speaker 2: and it's like they they've had that moment at Aha
Speaker 2: moment and they're all going in obviously, just like Franklin
Speaker 2: Templeton launching ETFs building.
Speaker 3: Uh. It's exciting to watch that play out.
Speaker 2: So I guess a good question or good segue is
Speaker 2: to crypto legislation and how that affects what Franklin Templeton
Speaker 2: is doing. I guess we can start with the Genius
Speaker 2: Act with that being passed into law, the stable Coin Bill.
Speaker 3: What does that mean for Franklin Templeton.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that's huge because well, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean look, first time lawmakers took carbon a week
Speaker 1: out to really kind of focus on crypto legislation. I
Speaker 1: mean that that's amazing and to get you know, the
Speaker 1: progress that was made, you know, kind of across the bills,
Speaker 1: but especially a Genius Act and signed into law and
Speaker 1: really having that regulatory framework for for stable coins in particular,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's that's that's huge. So and
Speaker 1: and stable coins obviously you know that they need to
Speaker 1: be now you know part of the rules, it's got
Speaker 1: to be back to you know, one for one and
Speaker 1: certain type of collateral. And this is all quite bullish
Speaker 1: for the US dollar, also quite bullish for for money
Speaker 1: market money market funds and treasuries in general.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: So, but having that framework, I think it's just huge
Speaker 1: because now you know, infrastructure providers, you know, can can
Speaker 1: really kind of embrace this and innovate and iterate on
Speaker 1: different kind of what you can do with this, and
Speaker 1: they don't have to worry about you know, kind of
Speaker 1: regulation by enforcement.
Speaker 3: Right, we have clear rules.
Speaker 1: Well what's interesting though is is we don't have rules
Speaker 1: yet for the rails that these stable coins travel on, right,
Speaker 1: So obviously that's coming next. So while while genius was tremendous,
Speaker 1: you know, I think it is tip of the iceberg.
Speaker 1: Obviously there's more coming and hopefully this is just a
Speaker 1: trend that will continue in a tailwind that will really
Speaker 1: kind of continue for the industry.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you can answer this, but I
Speaker 2: got to ask, are you looking at launching your own
Speaker 2: stable corn or will you just be using the stable
Speaker 2: coins that are out there?
Speaker 1: You know, I think in general we're going to see
Speaker 1: I mean, the banks are clearly say I think we're
Speaker 1: gonna see like lots of different types of firms, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, launch their own stable coin and they'll be
Speaker 1: almost like, you know, a brand connected to it. I
Speaker 1: think the key though, right is obviously there has to
Speaker 1: be enough liquidity between all these stable coins. Yes, they're
Speaker 1: all back one one five dollars, but if if you
Speaker 1: know the supply demand dynamics for a more niche you know,
Speaker 1: stable coin, like if it's not if the depth isn't there,
Speaker 1: you know it could be it. You know, it could
Speaker 1: trade a little off of a dollar, right, just because
Speaker 1: of supply demand dynamics. So one of the things I
Speaker 1: think we're interested in keeping in a close eye on is,
Speaker 1: you know, what are all the stable coins that are
Speaker 1: that are coming out, you know, being launched by who,
Speaker 1: how are they able to kind of build that liquidity?
Speaker 1: And then also, you know, I think so important in crypto, right,
Speaker 1: it's not just building the first thing. We've got to
Speaker 1: integrate it into the rest of it to really take
Speaker 1: advantage of the composability of crypto and blockchain. So you know,
Speaker 1: I think we are going to see lots of different
Speaker 1: types of players launch their own stable coin.
Speaker 3: But that's something I'll be curious.
Speaker 1: To follow and track, and I guess we'll see how
Speaker 1: it progresses.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's to your point, just launching a stable
Speaker 2: coin without the distribution and a proper network. It's not
Speaker 2: And I think of like Circle, you know, partnering with
Speaker 2: coin base, that strategic partnership and Coinbase helped with the
Speaker 2: distribution of USDC. I think that really helped u SEC.
Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, we'll see. It looks like everybody in
Speaker 2: their grandma is going to launch a stable coin and
Speaker 2: there might need to be some consolidation at some point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, And I think obviously there's some some fine
Speaker 1: printing around that, you know, not not everybody can launch
Speaker 1: a stable coin, but I think we're gonna see, you know,
Speaker 1: white label solutions and other things. I do think it's
Speaker 1: gonna be an interesting kind of trend to to follow
Speaker 1: who was actually launching, you know, who's helping with the
Speaker 1: building that out and then how is that all connecting to.
Speaker 3: Form little liquidity and the integrations to really kind of
Speaker 3: get the flybell going. M hm.
Speaker 2: You know you mentioned the market structure Bill right, you
Speaker 2: alluded to it, the Clarity Act that is set to
Speaker 2: pass in September. Knock on board. Hopefully that gets done
Speaker 2: Congress pushes it through President Trump sized into a law.
Speaker 2: Do you think that's just gonna unlock incredible innovation and
Speaker 2: building in this technology and industry because once again no
Speaker 2: regulation by Unfortunately you don't have to look over your shoulders.
Speaker 2: You can just be heads down building.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's I think it's hugually important.
Speaker 1: And I do you think right there there is it
Speaker 1: seems like there's all some more more work to be
Speaker 1: done there. I mean, I'm sure the Senate's gonna have
Speaker 1: some sent change it is, and they'll be you know, iterations.
Speaker 3: But I am optimistic like you are.
Speaker 1: I think I think we'll see you know, positive momentum
Speaker 1: resume here in the fall when they kind of come
Speaker 1: back and uh so super encouraged by I think, what
Speaker 1: can actually get done, you know here in the balance
Speaker 1: of the year, and then what it means for the
Speaker 1: industry because we've got the framework for stable coins as
Speaker 1: kind of digital programmable money. You know, if we can
Speaker 1: get the right you know, framework around the protocols themselves,
Speaker 1: those those execution environments, the blockchains, but also you know
Speaker 1: what it means to be an application building on these chains.
Speaker 1: I think that's huge and and how the regulation works,
Speaker 1: because quite frankly, that's that has held. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the innovation backs are certainly in this this country.
Speaker 3: So very much looking forward to that. I'll just be
Speaker 3: a continued, you know, kind of tailwind I think for
Speaker 3: the industry.
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely all loves to get your perspective on you
Speaker 2: and your competitors on UH in the trad five world,
Speaker 2: UH in this race to now adopt this technology. And
Speaker 2: I know you probably can't give away too much, but
Speaker 2: I'm curious, you know, what are you looking at?
Speaker 3: What are you thinking about? Are you paying.
Speaker 2: Attention to it? You know, your your fellow competitors are
Speaker 2: doing and is in a race? You know, do you
Speaker 2: feel the same way? From my outside view looks that way,
Speaker 2: But how do you feel about it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the the first thing that pops in
Speaker 1: my mind is, I mean one of the benefits of
Speaker 1: of kind of being at the at the cutting edge
Speaker 1: of still a small industry is you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: so much more collaborative, I'd say, then it feels so much.
Speaker 3: More collaborative than competitive. You know.
Speaker 1: So my my peers at at you know, at all
Speaker 1: of our kind of you know, peer firms, you know,
Speaker 1: like we're all trying to kind of push the industry
Speaker 1: forward together, right, and and a lot of times we
Speaker 1: are talking to the same clients and we're doing it,
Speaker 1: you know, globally, and so often you know, I'm in
Speaker 1: a room and I'm not even like pitching product, right,
Speaker 1: and I'm just educating about what, you know, what blockchains
Speaker 1: can do, what digital assets are, you know, how we
Speaker 1: think how an institutional you know kind of asset manager
Speaker 1: thinks about valuation and fundamentals in this space where we
Speaker 1: think it's going what we're seeing in the innovation pipeline,
Speaker 1: it's really just do.
Speaker 3: An education, right.
Speaker 1: And then you know my peers are doing doing that
Speaker 1: as well. And it is a nuanced technical industry. It's
Speaker 1: still nascent, and so I think all this education is
Speaker 1: super important.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: You kind of need to hear it a few different
Speaker 1: times in a few different ways and have that kind
Speaker 1: of surround sound and and then you kind of need
Speaker 1: to see it have the Lendy effect and kind of
Speaker 1: make it through a few cycles before you can start
Speaker 1: to wrap your head around and get comfortable.
Speaker 3: With it and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So on the on the one hand, if it sometimes
Speaker 1: feels you know competitive looking at you know, flows or whatnot,
Speaker 1: but the but really it is much more I think collaborate.
Speaker 3: A lot of the time.
Speaker 1: We're on the same panels as each other. Again, we're
Speaker 1: talking on the same clients and you know, around the world.
Speaker 1: And uh, and I think in terms of product too, right,
Speaker 1: you know, people are everybody's in and so I think
Speaker 1: that's like the great thing, right, So that's my gentle
Speaker 1: I actually you maybe wanted something a little bit spicier
Speaker 1: in that, but it is quite collaborator. And I think
Speaker 1: that goes back to it's still early. You know, we're
Speaker 1: all trying to kind of move this thing forward together.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that definitely makes sense.
Speaker 2: So on that note, we got crypto legislation stable Cooin
Speaker 2: bill passed, of course, but the Cloarity Act is the
Speaker 2: big one.
Speaker 3: Let's say that gets passed.
Speaker 2: And look, it's going to take time for you and
Speaker 2: your competitors to hit the ground running. Fully, there's a
Speaker 2: lot of trial and error, testing, R and D and
Speaker 2: so forth. When do you think we will be at
Speaker 2: a point of maturation where it's ready for full mainstream adoption,
Speaker 2: So where the average Joe and Jane walking down the
Speaker 2: street may not be as tech savvy. You know, they're
Speaker 2: not part of the early adopter crowd. But it gets
Speaker 2: a point where it feels like Web two, but it's
Speaker 2: powered by Web three and you're getting all these additional benefits.
Speaker 2: Is it twenty thirty or beyond that?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think so. Having the right regulatory frameworks is huge.
Speaker 1: And then with that extra clarity you can fill in
Speaker 1: some of the gaps that exists in the infrastructure right too,
Speaker 1: to make this as seamless as I think, where you
Speaker 1: know where your vision's going. So I think those are
Speaker 1: are some critical next steps. And then in terms of,
Speaker 1: you know, continuing to onboard new types of people and
Speaker 1: and one of the amazing things with crypto right it's
Speaker 1: it's it's not just something you buy and hold and
Speaker 1: put it on a shelf. Right crypto is meant to
Speaker 1: be used. And so it's one thing to onboard someone
Speaker 1: in terms of okay, now it's part of the portfolio.
Speaker 1: It's another to onboard them into using it and realizing
Speaker 1: firsthand some of those benefits and that a lot of
Speaker 1: times comes second, right, So I think a lot of times,
Speaker 1: you know, they have a they own it first, and
Speaker 1: then they use it. And so I think, you know,
Speaker 1: in terms of flows, we'll see more people open their
Speaker 1: mind and embrace it as a legitimate NASA class and understand.
Speaker 3: Its role in the portfolio.
Speaker 1: And what's interesting, right, is what we don't think, you
Speaker 1: know necessarily bitcoin plays the same role in a portfolio
Speaker 1: that say, you know, some other digital assets. So you know,
Speaker 1: once you once you kind of figure out where it's going,
Speaker 1: what are you funding it with, and how are you
Speaker 1: sizing appropriately, what's your time horizon, and then you you
Speaker 1: make the investment, then I think you start to do more,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe round out that investment or start to kind
Speaker 1: of use it and play with it. And then I
Speaker 1: think as as we move from this world of account
Speaker 1: view to digital wallet view, you know, it goes back
Speaker 1: to the infrastructure point, some more things need to be
Speaker 1: built out, I think to make this, to make this work,
Speaker 1: and so I think that.
Speaker 3: Part will take a little bit more time.
Speaker 1: Twenty thirty though, Well, the cool thing about the exponential
Speaker 1: technologies is it does move quickly. But I think we'll
Speaker 1: get some good stuff done by twenty thirty for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, because I still see, you know, more
Speaker 2: of the infrastructure needs to be built out for like
Speaker 2: just thinking about like.
Speaker 3: My mom and dad and yeah older.
Speaker 2: But you know, the adoption might come through their banks
Speaker 2: because they trust the bank they store their money in,
Speaker 2: or maybe a social app they use YouTube and Facebook.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's fascinating and I don't know what that's going to
Speaker 2: look like, but maybe it's through the banks because that's
Speaker 2: an institution they trust and it would fit in that
Speaker 2: a category of finance and investments.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: And I think and I think it will be get
Speaker 1: it will become more abstracted away, right, Like if we
Speaker 1: think about who are the power DeFi users five years
Speaker 1: from now, very much right, it could be the institution
Speaker 1: give me bank exast managers and you know, actually using
Speaker 1: DeFi the most, and they're using a kind of behind
Speaker 1: the scenes you're I think you're always gonna have, you know,
Speaker 1: a strong kind of retail component who absolutely loves rolling
Speaker 1: up the sleeves and getting kind of dirty with all
Speaker 1: these different protocols and trying things try not the latest thing,
Speaker 1: but in terms of you know, swaps and and uh
Speaker 1: you know, borrow, lend and some even some of the
Speaker 1: more you know, kind of newer and more or more
Speaker 1: exotic features that defy enables. You know, it might be
Speaker 1: institutions at the end of the day, right, being the
Speaker 1: actual power users of those protocols.
Speaker 2: Do you think that they could do it instead of
Speaker 2: the well, they can give the option of, hey, we'll
Speaker 2: do the whole DeFi set up here and earn this
Speaker 2: additional yield for you. Obviously the banks and these institutions
Speaker 2: will take a cut, but it'll be easy.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The person who's were a client or a customer of
Speaker 2: the bank would have to think about these things. They're like,
Speaker 2: you know, this is too much for me, But if
Speaker 2: the bank doesn't for me, that sounds cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, I mean, there's definitely part of the value
Speaker 1: proposition is simplifying this make it easy.
Speaker 3: You know, I've heard some models where you know that you even.
Speaker 1: Have a phone number to call, like right, like you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like, you know, what does customer service look
Speaker 1: like in a in a product that uses kind of
Speaker 1: defining the back end, you know, but but with you know,
Speaker 1: some kind of more white glove service on the front end,
Speaker 1: you know, for for whatever client you know and market.
Speaker 1: I think I think it's a design space that will
Speaker 1: continue to evolve. I think the key is this is
Speaker 1: where the regulatory comes in, right, you know, it's one
Speaker 1: thing for the software to just you know kind of
Speaker 1: work and that has its own regulatory framework. But as
Speaker 1: soon as there's kind of a centralized actor in there,
Speaker 1: you know, performing some value added service supposedly on top
Speaker 1: of this, you know, I just think they're.
Speaker 3: Right obviously proper oversight and controls around all this.
Speaker 1: But I think in terms of the design space, a
Speaker 1: lot can be done and that can help onboard new
Speaker 1: users as well.
Speaker 3: Mhm, what's on your room map?
Speaker 2: But but what can you share and uh, what can
Speaker 2: we expect over the next six months or so?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think as a as a firm, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of going back to are kind of
Speaker 1: you know, kind of to two full model of being
Speaker 1: builders in the space customers of these blockchains users, and
Speaker 1: trying to do more with our existing product lineup through
Speaker 1: you know, kind of the Benji you know, sweet so
Speaker 1: to speak, you know, maybe bringing new products into the
Speaker 1: into those kind of channels that we've built out now
Speaker 1: as well as on the on the investing side, I think,
Speaker 1: you know, helping with the education and onboarding more clients
Speaker 1: into crypto who will embrace digital acids as as an
Speaker 1: asset class in their portfolio construction. I think, uh, there's
Speaker 1: certainly a lot to keep busy on on both sides,
Speaker 1: So I'll probably spendy more my uh you know kind
Speaker 1: of time on the uh on the investment side. But again,
Speaker 1: what I love about, you know, kind of just the
Speaker 1: way we built up this platform. Uh, you know, we
Speaker 1: work hand in hand right with those in house blockchain engineers,
Speaker 1: and not just in terms of uhh feedback, but also
Speaker 1: thinking about you know, kind of where it's all going,
Speaker 1: you know, try trying to trying to actualize the Sandy calls,
Speaker 1: you know kind of vision, and so I think a
Speaker 1: fun road ahead.
Speaker 3: Well I love it.
Speaker 2: Uh you know, I followed Franklin Templeton for many years
Speaker 2: and you guys have certainly been ahead of the curve
Speaker 2: in many ways with this technology.
Speaker 3: So I'm excited to.
Speaker 2: See what rolls out next, and uh, you know, what
Speaker 2: have you back on talk about the new products and
Speaker 2: services and things like that. I got some wrap up
Speaker 2: questions here for you. First, if you could create your
Speaker 2: own metaverse, what would theme be?
Speaker 1: Ooh, you know, it would definitely be something in I
Speaker 1: think the video game space, as I mentioned, and that
Speaker 1: was where I first got real crypto pilled, you know,
Speaker 1: back in the Accial Infinity days and the Parallel card game.
Speaker 1: You know, before there was a game, right, people just
Speaker 1: collected the cards. I've since kind of played it with
Speaker 1: my son, who's a you know, an avid Pokemon fan.
Speaker 1: So I think a metaverse that that I would either
Speaker 1: design or want to spend time, and especially as I
Speaker 1: think about bringing my kids in more into kind of crypto,
Speaker 1: I think using a using the video game type of
Speaker 1: metaverse is a great you know, kind of uh trojan
Speaker 1: horse if you will to get them exposure to uh
Speaker 1: this new type of technology.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure. Rapid fire questions. Favorite food Korean through
Speaker 2: Korean barbecue. I love barbecue as well.
Speaker 3: Favorite musician or.
Speaker 1: Band Sublime and Mantociajo kind of you know, I like
Speaker 1: that genre. Nice favorite movie, Uh there I go with
Speaker 1: this Matt Damon duo of good Will Hunting and Rounders.
Speaker 2: I good Will Hunting, I mean, just a great movie.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't think I've ever seen Rounders. I
Speaker 3: gotta gotta check down. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1: H and it's you know, most people get into poker,
Speaker 1: they did of my generation, either when Chris Moneymaker, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the world. Here's a poker on ESPN. The
Speaker 1: first time was tall a Lies or by watching the
Speaker 1: movie Rounders, and I got in through the movie Rounders.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna watch it tonight. I got check it out.
Speaker 3: Favorite book, Tell Two Cities. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: When you're not working at Franklin templeton, what are you
Speaker 2: doing for fun?
Speaker 1: Playing with playing with my kids. And I do like
Speaker 1: I do like poker a lot of is kind of
Speaker 1: alluded to. And I like outdoor cooking and I have
Speaker 1: four different types of barbecue grill cooker apparatus in the backyard,
Speaker 1: and I like outdoor cooking.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm we'd there with you because I have a
Speaker 2: regular size grill. Then I just bought a griddle for outside.
Speaker 2: So about you up more outside, So we'll do it.
Speaker 3: Christopher Pleasure chatting with you.
Speaker 2: Love what Franklin Temple's doing in the digital asset blockchain space.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining me. And like I said,
Speaker 2: I'd love to have you back on as new things
Speaker 2: are launch on your front.
Speaker 3: Thanks Tony, take care,