WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:02.480 And so this is all on kind of the investing 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.080 side of the house and then on the building side 3 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:08.519 of the house. You know, it really started with that 4 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:13.720 tokenized money market fond. And yeah, so the term benji 5 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.199 relates to, you know, one Benji token is one share 6 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:20.239 of ownership in this money market fond that that's on 7 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:23.000 chain and fully on chain, No, no duplicate. 8 00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:31.120 This content is brought to you by v chain, which 9 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:35.000 is a leading enterprise grade Layer one public blockchain spear 10 00:00:35.079 --> 00:00:39.159 hitting a digital revolution from a sustainable, highly scalable smart 11 00:00:39.159 --> 00:00:43.159 contract platform. The v chain blockchain has many unique features, 12 00:00:43.399 --> 00:00:46.960 which makes it an ideal choice for Web three applications. 13 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:50.960 V chain is working with many great enterprises such as PwC, G, 14 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:55.320 von Chi, BMW and Walmart China. Most recently, they partnered 15 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:59.960 with the Boston Consulting Group to build a revolutionary decentral 16 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:01.799 application ecosystem. 17 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:03.000 I'm a big. 18 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:05.799 Believer in this project. I have been since twenty eighteen. 19 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:08.599 I've been a VET token holder for years. And this 20 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:12.959 blockchain is highly scalable, great with security and speed, and 21 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:16.599 it has low energy consumption. If you'd like to learn 22 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:20.079 more about v chain, please visit vchain dot org. Link 23 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:23.000 will be in a description. Hey, folks, welcome into the 24 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:26.200 Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and joining 25 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:29.000 me today is Christopher Jensen, who is the director of 26 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:33.400 Digital acid Research for Franklin Templeton. Christopher, great to have. 27 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:35.280 You, Thanks Tony. Happy to be here. 28 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:38.879 Yeah, Christopher, I'm excited to speak with you. Franklin Templeton 29 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:42.319 is certainly a power player and on Wall Street, and 30 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:48.879 you've launched some very interesting digital asset tools, products, services 31 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:50.719 and much more, and I want to dive into that. 32 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:53.200 Let's kick it off with your background. Tell us a 33 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:55.159 bit about yourself and your professional background. 34 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:56.239 Yeah, thank you. 35 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:01.239 So, I guess, like several both my firm and across 36 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:03.000 some of our peers, you know, I do have a 37 00:02:03.079 --> 00:02:07.359 Tratify background, so you know, always been involved on the 38 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:11.960 byside principal investing for about twenty years now, a lot 39 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.400 of that in credit private credit, you know in particular, 40 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:19.159 and then for the last probably eight really at this 41 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:22.960 technic intersection of technology and finance, and so you know, 42 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:26.360 we were doing a lot of the early fintech activities 43 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:29.919 for the firm for Franklin and you know, I think 44 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:31.560 once you're at that tip of the spear, you know, 45 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:34.120 in terms of technology and finance, and you're you're kind 46 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:36.719 of deep in fintech and and then you start to see, 47 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:39.800 you know, what blockchains can do. You know, I guess 48 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:42.439 over time it went from like ninety nine percent fintech 49 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:45.120 one percent crypto, and now it's you know, one hundred 50 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:49.240 percent uh crypto. But I think I I first got 51 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:54.400 the bug slightly later than you did. It was twenty seventeen, 52 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:57.680 really just started kind of reading white papers paying attention. 53 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:00.960 I did wait for the new kind of tax you 54 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:04.960 of twenty eighteen to actually you know, dip dip the 55 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:10.520 toes in and yeah, the you know, once once, once 56 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:12.520 you do that first swap. And for me it was 57 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.400 actually uh getting involved in some of those early Web 58 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:19.360 three video games was that was that was a pretty. 59 00:03:19.120 --> 00:03:21.360 Interesting aha moment. And you know, once you once you 60 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.360 get kind of get crypto pilled, right, you know, it was, 61 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:26.479 uh the rest is history. Yeah. Absolutely. 62 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:29.479 Now, with your plethora of experience in the trad fire 63 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.879 world and uh this technology comes along, do you see 64 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:38.199 it as a natural evolution of of the Internet and 65 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:41.000 the way we are going to operate markets and things 66 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:41.360 like that. 67 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:44.879 Yeah, definitely, I'm kind of in the camp that it's 68 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:48.840 both an evolution and upgrade to the Internet. I love 69 00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:51.520 that phrase that, Like one of the original sense of 70 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:53.319 the of the Internet, right is that it didn't have 71 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:55.840 the ability to send money. You know, you can send 72 00:03:55.879 --> 00:03:58.159 an email anywhere in the world permissionlessly, but you know, 73 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:00.360 you can't do that with money. And I think at 74 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:01.800 the time it was too hard of a you know, 75 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:03.919 computer science problem, the double spending problem. 76 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:05.199 And but you know, since. 77 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:08.400 Then, with cryptography and blockchains, we've we've figured that out, right, 78 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:11.280 So I do think, you know, it's an upgrade to 79 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:14.360 the Internet, and I always get a shout out to 80 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:16.680 you know, a Christison's Read write own and that kind 81 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:17.439 of mental model. 82 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:20.240 I think that's that's wonderful. 83 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:22.720 Uh, as well as though an upgrade to our financial system, 84 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:25.720 and so obviously a Frankel Tembleton. You know, we've kind 85 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:27.959 of been sitting at the at the nexus of this, 86 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:31.639 you know, having over eighty years kind of you know 87 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:36.160 doing investment management, asset management on a global scale, and 88 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:38.920 so that that involves lots of ledgers, lots of you know, 89 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:42.600 middle ops and backups, and and dealing with lots of 90 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:46.160 different ways to move money and value around the world 91 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:48.399 and with respect to clients and assets. 92 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:49.160 Uh. 93 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:52.399 And so I think when we saw blockchain technology, right, 94 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:55.839 it really was an AHA moment on the financial system 95 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:58.680 upgrade side just as much as it was on the 96 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:00.680 internet upgrade side. 97 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:01.079 Yeah. 98 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.160 Absolutely, So maybe you could take us behind the curtain 99 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:06.759 a bit, because I'm very fascinated as to what your 100 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:09.279 R and D process looks like when it comes to 101 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:13.839 looking at new technology like blockchain. So let's say, you know, 102 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:16.360 you guys don't make decisions overnight. It's not like, oh, 103 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:19.800 here's bitcoin, let's right away start something. But I'm sure 104 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:22.199 there's a lot of trial and error testing happening. So 105 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:24.879 Walk goes through kind of the methodology of how you 106 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:28.279 look at blockchain and these new technologies and new blockchains 107 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:30.759 that are popping up in the market to look at 108 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:32.600 to integrate them into your systems. 109 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:33.959 Yeah, definitely. 110 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:36.920 So the order of the story there, and I can't 111 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:39.839 remember if my colleague Sandy call had gone into I'll 112 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:43.120 touch on it briefly, but you know, be coming out 113 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:46.000 of that kind of fintech roots, you know, for us, 114 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:50.839 we originally were running a validator on the Provedance blockchain right, 115 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:53.319 which it tazes back to, you know, kind of figure 116 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:56.439 and Mike Cagney, who was the founder of Lending Club 117 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:59.879 and so far. So we were running a validator on 118 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:02.920 a blockchains, as one does, and you end up with 119 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:05.680 you know, native coin on your balance sheet, and so 120 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:08.680 in this case, in the case of the Problenance blockchain, 121 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:10.959 we end up with a bunch of hash and then 122 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:12.560 all of a sudden it was like, you know, what 123 00:06:12.680 --> 00:06:15.319 is this new type of asset a token? 124 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:17.639 You know, it's on our balance sheet? What what is 125 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:18.240 it worth? 126 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:22.000 And and so once once you kind of you know, 127 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:24.480 start pulling on that threat a little bit, a whole 128 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:27.680 host of questions opens up. And so, you know, I 129 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:32.560 think initially it was the combination of you know, necessity, 130 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:34.240 we have to figure out how to what this is 131 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:37.079 and how to value you know, value it as well 132 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.360 as you know, then you know, what can we do 133 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:43.040 with it? So I think from a very early point 134 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:45.600 in our kind of digital asset arc, I think we 135 00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.879 realized the need that hey, there's a really powerful technology here, 136 00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:52.959 and being a global asset manager, like what can we 137 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:54.439 do with that technology? 138 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:56.920 And like is it a threat or is it an 139 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:00.199 opportunity or is it both and so? 140 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:02.439 And then we also recognized that, hey, you have this 141 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:06.439 totally nascent, you know, the buddings of what could be 142 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:08.439 an acid class, and you know, fast forward today and 143 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:11.759 it really does seem like a legitimate its own acid class. 144 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:14.879 At the time, it was just like, hey, maybe it could, 145 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:18.560 you know. And so I think from inception, there were 146 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:22.160 these two sides to our business. It was a curiosity 147 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:26.480 to what can this technology do? And then a curiosity 148 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:30.319 to of, hey, if this involve evolves into like a 149 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:32.959 new type of acid. I mean, that's that's pretty unique 150 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:34.920 and special because it's not every day that that a 151 00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:38.079 new acid class comes around, right, So I think I 152 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:40.600 think that was the genesis, the origin story. 153 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:43.279 And then and then you know, I'll kick it back 154 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:43.480 to you. 155 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:45.639 We can talk about, you know, how we kind of 156 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:48.079 evolved the ball or advanced the ball and I are 157 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:49.160 those two initiatives. 158 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:53.920 Yeah, it's it's so fascinating because it seems, to your point, 159 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:57.240 we couldn't tell what this was initially, right, Is it 160 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:01.199 just blockchain and just rails? Or is also an asset class? 161 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:03.399 And it seems like it's both right, just tech, this 162 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:06.040 next layer on the Internet, but also this new asset 163 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:09.519 classes introduced UH to it, and I remember folks were 164 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.839 trying to go the private permission blockchain space where no 165 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.240 need for a token, But I think more folks are 166 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:18.839 realizing public blockchains are the way you do need the 167 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.160 token to kind of grease the wheels and make sure 168 00:08:21.160 --> 00:08:21.920 everything works. 169 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:26.120 Yeah, definitely, I remember us having some early conversations around 170 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:29.600 that that very topic and actually publishing some research around 171 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:32.519 our thoughts on you know, public blockchains and this this 172 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:34.960 sort of thing. I think, you know, giving a lot 173 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.480 of credit to our own in house blockchain engineers, and 174 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:39.799 you know, just kind of big fans of open source 175 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:43.600 software and the importance of that and prior technological movements. 176 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:47.480 So I think realizing just how battle tested, you know, 177 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:51.600 open source code can be, and then the way that 178 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:54.120 the stack works. I think you can you can build 179 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:59.080 permission save, permission DeFi applications, you know, on a permission 180 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:03.159 list chain, right, but it's it's harder to do the opposite, right, 181 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:06.919 So I think from the onset, yeah, we gravitated towards 182 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:10.240 these these public chains and you know right now are 183 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:12.559 building on I mean, I think it's I think it's 184 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:16.039 upwards of ten you know, public blockchains and running. You know, 185 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:19.480 it's done all these chains too, So that idea of 186 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:24.200 building on them, specifically on public blockchains and supporting consensus 187 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:27.960 and validating transactions, you know, very very important us to 188 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:31.360 support these networks. And then as we think about new 189 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:34.799 products to either put on those chains or how do 190 00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:37.679 you how do you then package some of these exposures 191 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:40.279 so that clients who we are interested in getting access 192 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:43.320 to this technology, they have a kind of a menu 193 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:45.000 of options for them as well. 194 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:48.759 I don't know if you can speak to this because 195 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:51.799 it kind of gets behind the scenes, but there is 196 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:55.559 some disruption that this technology brings, right. It makes things 197 00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:58.720 more efficient, can lower costs and so forth. But let's 198 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:02.200 say a business that Franklin Tembleton runs. Maybe this eats 199 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:04.159 away at some of your revenue and you're not the 200 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:07.600 only one Fidelity and all the other players, right, black 201 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.720 Rock and so forth. But is there kind of a 202 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:15.159 initial hit to let's say revenue, But then you find 203 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.080 new revenue avenues with the technology, like being able to 204 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:23.120 tokenize certain market money market funds, and that recoups the revenue. 205 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:25.679 I don't know if that makes sense, but yeah, it 206 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:26.600 totally does. 207 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:30.159 And I think from that investor mindset, which is really like, 208 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:34.080 you know, first and foremost, you know, I'm an investor, we. 209 00:10:34.039 --> 00:10:36.000 Have all the buildings on our side of the platform. 210 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:38.240 You know, that's not me. I'm more of the you know, 211 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:41.840 investing mindset. So when I'm looking at like this technology 212 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:45.600 or any one of these protocols, like I'm constantly asking, like, 213 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:48.879 what really is the value proposition here? And to your point, 214 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:55.399 is the technology here cost savings exercise or is there 215 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:58.240 something new that can be done with it, you know, 216 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:02.320 in terms of enhance you or an additional revenue line. 217 00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:05.240 You know, So is that value proposition strictly on the 218 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:08.080 cost side or is it also on this you know, 219 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:11.559 additive revenue generating side. And so I think with respect 220 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:14.799 to our own business, it was first and foremost like, wow, 221 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:18.440 if we can bring the transfer agent function on chain, 222 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:21.879 you know, we can reduce a lot of those costs. 223 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:23.759 And again, you know, we have. 224 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:26.320 Funds and you know, stakeholders all over the world, right, 225 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.679 so there's a lot of there's a lot of kind 226 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.840 of you know, leakage in the global financial system, and 227 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:33.879 certainly as being a player, like you know, we know 228 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:34.759 this all too well. 229 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.679 So there was a little bit of a light bulb 230 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:38.559 going off there. 231 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:41.200 But at the same time, you know, not only by 232 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:43.960 bringing something like a tokenized money market fund on chain 233 00:11:44.120 --> 00:11:48.120 and realizing those those costs, we realize that, you know, 234 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:53.039 blockchains afford new use cases and this idea of programmable 235 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:56.720 composable money allows you to just do things that you 236 00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:01.080 couldn't do before. So this concept of day yield, right, 237 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:05.080 you know, it doesn't really exist in the old model, 238 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:08.919 but now I could pay interest out daily every second, right, 239 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:11.200 and so if we transfer it, the yield goes with it. 240 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.720 That concept of intra day yield is something new and 241 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:17.679 really enabled by the blockchain, right. And then you know, 242 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:19.919 you hear from the payments, you know, folks, you know 243 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:22.879 they're super interested because you can do streaming payments and 244 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:27.200 micro payments and programmable payments, and you know, by leveraging 245 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:30.519 smart contracts. So this idea of yes, it can bring 246 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:34.840 down costs and maybe in certain use cases, yeah, maybe 247 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:37.200 our firm is some of those costs. But I think 248 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:41.200 it also enhances what you can do with money and value, 249 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:43.399 and so that leads to kind of new revenue lines 250 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:44.320 which are pretty exciting. 251 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:49.000 Yeah, absolutely, And to your point of new revenue lines, 252 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:52.799 does it open up more liquidity to come into certain 253 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:56.840 funds and products that you have because it's on the blockchain, 254 00:12:57.240 --> 00:13:00.200 it's trading twenty four to seven and for the first time, 255 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:04.360 we can have truly global markets because let's say, I know, 256 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:07.360 certain legislations being figured out, you know how we're going 257 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:09.879 to handle all these things with global markets twenty four 258 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:14.120 to seven trading tokenization. But let's say someone in Africa 259 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:17.519 and a country in Africa who couldn't access these products before, 260 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:20.600 they have a smartphone, They've got some cash and they're like, 261 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:24.080 what I like what Franklin Templeton's offering here, and they 262 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:25.799 can do it because of the blockchain and they don't 263 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:28.960 have to go through all the crazy red tape that 264 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:30.159 was there before. 265 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:31.440 Yeah. 266 00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:36.080 I love those examples, right because you are democratizing access. 267 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:38.360 And I think one theme right now is you know, 268 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:40.000 democratize and say alternatives. 269 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:41.120 But here we're just talking. 270 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:43.879 About you know, with us with a smartphone and an 271 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:47.039 Internet connection, you can have access to basic banking you 272 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:49.639 know that you wouldn't have in those parts of the world. 273 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:52.519 So it really is you know, powerful and as we 274 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.720 think of, you know, kind of where the where the 275 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:58.080 world and the industry are headed. And you know if really, 276 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:00.879 you know, I just have this wallet that I take 277 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.559 with me, you know, to you know, and we Sandy 278 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:06.879 always talks about moving from that account view to the 279 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:09.200 wallet view, and I just think that is that is 280 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.440 one hundred percent where you know, to use the analogy 281 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:14.360 and the puck is headed here and and and the 282 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:17.679 assets that you'll hold in that wallet will be you know, 283 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:22.799 your your your existing traditional assets, they'll be your cryptonative assets. 284 00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:26.080 And then there's you know, kind of hybrid acids too, 285 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.799 and maybe it's your cultural assets. But again it's in 286 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:31.480 this wallet that you take with you. You own your data, 287 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:33.960 you take them with you, and that that's pretty powerful 288 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:35.440 no matter where you are in the world. 289 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:38.600 Yeah, and you know, I think a lot about that, 290 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:42.320 the idea of the wallet replacing maybe some of the 291 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.360 legacy things that we have with account numbers, and you 292 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:49.480 know exactly what Sandy said, and then that wallet being 293 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:53.519 interoppable with my devices, my car and it's so it's 294 00:14:53.559 --> 00:14:56.759 like anywhere I go it's sharing pulling from the same wallet. 295 00:14:56.799 --> 00:14:59.919 I paid a toll and driving on the highway. U 296 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.440 my fridge does something right, all these little updates that 297 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:05.679 are done and it's coming seating from the same wallet. 298 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:10.399 Yeah, definitely. I think you know, since this industry kind 299 00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:14.039 of got started, people were imagining what could the actual 300 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:17.720 total addressable market be for blockchain technology, and I think, 301 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:20.279 you know, whatever those wild estimates were at the beginning, 302 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.240 like you start to realize that, yeah, you could actually 303 00:15:24.919 --> 00:15:28.600 provide a digital signature, you know, not just for for assets, 304 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.960 but there are financial assets, but for for capital assets, 305 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:34.519 for you know, a whole host of things. You know, 306 00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:36.519 as we just it gets to it's not just the 307 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:39.879 financial system. As the Internet gets upgraded with this technology, 308 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.559 and I think as it becomes abstracted away, right, it 309 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.639 just becomes part of our infrastructure and it affords us, 310 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:47.919 you know, kind of new tools. So I do think 311 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.039 that that addressable market, you know, it is quite bigger, 312 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:53.639 maybe we than we all initially imagine. 313 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:56.480 Yeah, you know, some of it seems like things some 314 00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:58.519 of the movies and you know, how everything will be 315 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:04.200 connected IoT a crypto blockchain. It seems we're at the well, 316 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.320 I've been talking about it a lot, Fourth Industrial Revolution. 317 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.399 You have the convergence of all these technologies and they 318 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.399 compliment each other and uh, you know, I was just 319 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.200 interviewing someone who's working on robots and AI and they're 320 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:18.840 looking to integrate blockchain, and yeah, robots are not gonna 321 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:19.360 use cash. 322 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:19.600 You know. 323 00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:21.720 If we're gonna have robots in our homes or in 324 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.080 the factories ten years from now, they're gonna probably have 325 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:27.360 a built in wallet and use stable coins or some 326 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:28.120 digital money. 327 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.759 Yeah, and especially I mean robots, I think I think 328 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:34.200 it's something physical tangible. But even as agents, you know, 329 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:38.440 working on your behalf online right, Absolutely, I doubt we're 330 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:42.879 going to see a siation you know, fun fun wires around. 331 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:45.600 It's it's probably you know, micro payments, you know, riding 332 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:47.039 around on blockchain rails. 333 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:49.279 So I think that is the way it's added. 334 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:53.679 Absolutely, Before we go further, I want folks to know 335 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:57.799 as much as possible what Franklin Temple is doing with crypto, 336 00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:00.559 blockchain and so forth. Can you run through all the 337 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:02.759 initiatives you have running going on right now? 338 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:04.000 Yeah, definitely. 339 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:06.799 I'll start on the investment side of the house and 340 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:08.440 then we'll get to the building side of the house 341 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:10.759 in case you want to a double click on any 342 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:14.079 of that. So look on the on the investing side, 343 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:16.279 I think you know, we're our kind of mindset or 344 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:19.359 our philosophy is is, you know, how do you develop 345 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:23.599 kind of a full menu, right to offer exposure to 346 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:26.839 this underlying technology. So, you know, we're one of the 347 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:30.160 ETF players, and we're really excited about, like, you know, 348 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:32.799 the spot ETF market in the US. It's you know, 349 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:35.240 we still only have the two approve, but it looks 350 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:37.559 like more are common. We're excited for this kind of 351 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:40.720 hybrid space of taking the crypto native assets and kind 352 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:44.799 of wrapping them in that traditional ETF wrapper and offering. 353 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:45.599 Them out to clients. Right. 354 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:48.119 Uh, So that's exciting. I think we'll see a lot 355 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:51.599 more there. And then we think of that too as 356 00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:54.000 like a form of low cost beta, right. I mean, 357 00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:56.480 there's just so many good things about ets but as 358 00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:58.599 you get your toes, you know, you different toes in 359 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:02.079 sometimes you want you know, act management and something more discretionary. 360 00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:04.119 And so there we kind of are thinking. 361 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.319 About the world in terms of okay, there's venture capital 362 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:08.720 on the one side, and then you have you know, 363 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:12.319 active management to figure out that whole tale of the 364 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:15.599 long tail of kind of crypto assets, you know, the tokens. 365 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:17.960 So we have kind of private. 366 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:20.720 Funds and those offerings, and so this is all on 367 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:23.000 kind of the investing side of the house and then 368 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:25.200 on the building side of the house. You know, it 369 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:30.799 really started with that token iszed money market fund, and yeah, 370 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.799 so the front the term benji relates to, you know, 371 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.559 one Benji token is one share of ownership in this 372 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:41.240 money market fund that that's on chain and fully on chain. No, 373 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:44.640 no duplicate you know, books and records off chain. 374 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:46.160 It's it's it's fully on chain. 375 00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:48.519 And so I think it you know, it started with 376 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.079 that and really on one blockchain, one product, you know, 377 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:54.960 and so I guess kind of fast forward, and you 378 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:58.119 couldn't do much with it. It was really like you know, 379 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:01.839 it was it was fiat currency going in and you 380 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:04.839 can buy it and you could hold it, right, And 381 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:07.640 so you know where we've kind of come from there 382 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.640 is is expanding the number of blockchains that we're on, 383 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:14.119 so kind of meeting the client where they're at. 384 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:17.000 And so yeah, I think we're on you know. 385 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:20.960 Called it eight eight plus you know blockchains right now, 386 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:26.000 public blockchains, uh, and and then increasing the functionality so 387 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:29.200 that concept of inter day yield, then the concept of 388 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.279 being able to transfer this security token back and forth 389 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.720 between us. You know, these are things that we're added later, 390 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:39.279 like the ability to go to swap you know, your 391 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:43.400 stable coins into into Benji rather than just use you know, 392 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:46.279 go Fiat into it. So I think we're trying to 393 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:50.400 enhance utility for the token. And then in parallel to 394 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:55.039 putting on more blockchains and different ecosystems on the crypto side, 395 00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:58.079 we also want to in more jurisdictions around the world. 396 00:19:58.160 --> 00:20:00.240 So it was this interesting, you. 397 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.640 Know, how do you bring this to more places on 398 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:05.680 chain and how do you bring it to more places 399 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:09.279 around the world, and all while doing it in a 400 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:12.799 regulatory compliant way. So I think a lot of the 401 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:17.319