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<v Speaker 1>Eight oh five, the fifty five KRCD Talk station. A

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<v Speaker 1>very happy Friday to you, Brian Thomas, wishing everyone very

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<v Speaker 1>happy Friday and happy as I can be to welcome

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<v Speaker 1>with the fifty five KRC Morning Show Chris Pihote. And

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<v Speaker 1>what an impressive resume Chris is got. He served as

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<v Speaker 1>a chief executive for FBI Science and Technology Programs. In

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<v Speaker 1>his earlier career, he was with the US government senior

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<v Speaker 1>executive service official. Retired from the FBI after twenty five years.

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<v Speaker 1>And I just mentioned part of the FBI Science and

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<v Speaker 1>Technology program he was a one point director of the

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<v Speaker 1>US government twenty four hour Global Terrorist Screening Center, also

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<v Speaker 1>Special Agent in charge of the FBI's Buffalo, New York

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<v Speaker 1>Field office. In his early career, he worked on programs

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<v Speaker 1>in areas regarding counter terrorism, counterintelligence, technical programs, physical and

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<v Speaker 1>informational security, weapons of mass destruction, intelligence collection. I could

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<v Speaker 1>go on, we wouldn't be able to talk about his

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<v Speaker 1>book Wanted the FBI. I once knew how to restore

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<v Speaker 1>faith in the world's premier law enforcement agency. Chris pyhotame

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<v Speaker 1>to the Morning Show. It's a pleasure to have you on.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's a pleasure to be with you this morning,

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<v Speaker 2>and thanks for the opportunity to visit with.

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<v Speaker 3>You and your audience.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh and I'm sure they are excited to hear from you.

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<v Speaker 1>And the name of the book I think suggests it

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<v Speaker 1>all how to restore faith, suggesting of course that a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of us have lost faith in the FBI. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to get your impressions where you think it

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<v Speaker 1>went wrong. But as I observe from the notes and information,

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<v Speaker 1>somewhere after September eleventh, that's when the problems kicked in.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you connect September eleventh and how has the

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<v Speaker 1>direction of the FBI deteriorated leading to you writing about

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<v Speaker 1>this in the book Wanted the FBI.

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<v Speaker 3>I once knew.

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<v Speaker 2>Well after nine to eleven there are some obvious, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>shortfalls that allowed that tragedy to happen. So the FBI

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<v Speaker 2>made a very violent shift in its organizational operations, moving

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<v Speaker 2>from a traditional law enforcement kind of the cops and

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<v Speaker 2>robbers organization that it was into being a national security

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<v Speaker 2>focused intelligence organization domestic security related function that it became.

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<v Speaker 2>And as all things in the government do, they start

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<v Speaker 2>with good intention and then move into other areas of

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<v Speaker 2>mission creep and then a lack of mission focus after

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<v Speaker 2>a while, and what we saw was certain decisions were

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<v Speaker 2>being made that led the FBI to becoming what we

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<v Speaker 2>what I call corporatized. There were a lot of private sector,

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<v Speaker 2>private sector approaches, private sector ideas brought into the FBI

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<v Speaker 2>to change its culture after nine to eleven, and the

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<v Speaker 2>corporatized FBI moved away from the beliefs and values and

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<v Speaker 2>practices that made the FBI legendary leading up to that point. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I think we threw out the baby with the bathwater.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I understand, and I guess you know, when I

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<v Speaker 1>think a traditional FBI, you know, going back to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the television program and busting people for you know, RICO violations,

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<v Speaker 1>organized crime and all those complex criminal investigations. The world

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<v Speaker 1>has changed dramatically because of the Internet and cybersecurity, and

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<v Speaker 1>you are an expert in cyber operations and security practices.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that part of the challenge the FBI faced in

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<v Speaker 1>this culture shift, dealing with the realities of this mean,

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<v Speaker 1>wide open and insecure systems that we have.

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<v Speaker 3>It was definitely a challenge.

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<v Speaker 2>Back when the Internet came online very quickly, we found

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<v Speaker 2>that the Internet enhanced our lives, but it also made

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<v Speaker 2>better bad guys and it gave them better opportunities to

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<v Speaker 2>attack people from afar. And we saw a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the traditional criminal activities become enhanced and unlimited by geography

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<v Speaker 2>and other logistics that used to limit the criminal activity

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<v Speaker 2>and effectiveness.

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<v Speaker 3>So what we found and also.

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<v Speaker 2>Was that the national security threat environment changed with the

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<v Speaker 2>Internet as well when it came to terrorism and counterintelligence activities.

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<v Speaker 2>So the FBI had a lot of searching to do

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<v Speaker 2>when it came to looking at how we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>protect the American people while still upholding the constitutional freedoms

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<v Speaker 2>that our society enjoys.

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<v Speaker 3>And it was a difficult transition.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I guess it seemed to have become very politicized

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<v Speaker 1>in you know, the the investigations of January sixth, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems to me that the entire resources of all

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<v Speaker 1>the FBI we were turned on every single individual that

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<v Speaker 1>happened to be in the area of the of the

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<v Speaker 1>Capitol building during that riot. It would that have been

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<v Speaker 1>the norm under earlier FBI times that they would spend

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<v Speaker 1>so much time and effort to go after those folks.

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<v Speaker 2>No, what you saw there was the result of the

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<v Speaker 2>last iteration of CI leadership allowing their own personal and

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<v Speaker 2>political views to overly influence SBI operational decision making and

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<v Speaker 2>resource allocation. Used to be where the FBI would have

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<v Speaker 2>been very reluctant and almost unwilling to do something like that,

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<v Speaker 2>But we've seen that cultural decline and erosion over time

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<v Speaker 2>where the leadership was either amenable to it or unable

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<v Speaker 2>to resist the maybe the influence of the last administration.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, as a lawyer, I viewed the law as the law.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, as long as it's equally applied, it says

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<v Speaker 1>what it is. There are crimes on the book. You

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<v Speaker 1>go after people regardless of political stride. But is this

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<v Speaker 1>politization that seems to have gone on, is that because

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<v Speaker 1>of the hiring practices. Did they actually seek out and

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<v Speaker 1>seek to hire and hire people who were of a

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<v Speaker 1>particular political mindsets that they would embrace this.

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<v Speaker 3>Kind of.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not I don't think it's the recruitment of new people.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the promotion of people inside the organization who

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<v Speaker 2>showed a I guess you can call it a likeness

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<v Speaker 2>to the senior leadership's political views. So what you saw

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<v Speaker 2>was all those people of like mind rising into very

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<v Speaker 2>senior and influential positions that then pushed those ideas and

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<v Speaker 2>practices down into the workforce.

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<v Speaker 1>And I suppose a frontline agent who was interested in

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<v Speaker 1>the old school idea of just finding criminals and prosecuting

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<v Speaker 1>bad guys. They were told and instructed by their politicized

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<v Speaker 1>seniors that you do the job that I'm telling you

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<v Speaker 1>to do, and they probably had no say in the matter.

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<v Speaker 3>Then, yeah, you have very.

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<v Speaker 2>Little say in what you can actually do. You accept

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<v Speaker 2>direction and order.

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<v Speaker 3>And this is what I tried to explain to somebody

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<v Speaker 3>the other day.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're given an order or direction that's not illegal

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<v Speaker 2>or unsafe, you know, causing bodily harm, I mean, you're

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<v Speaker 2>you're obligated to do what you're told on a certain level.

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<v Speaker 2>And I said, there's a difference between being an independent

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<v Speaker 2>investigator versus being an insubordinate investigator.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's a fine.

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<v Speaker 2>Line you walk, and people will voice their displeasure and

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<v Speaker 2>their disagreement, but ultimately, if it's a lawful, legal order

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<v Speaker 2>that comes from the White House to the Attorney General,

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<v Speaker 2>from the director of the FBI, the folks are going

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<v Speaker 2>to grit their teeth and still do their best to

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<v Speaker 2>you know, conduct a mission and protect the American people.

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<v Speaker 1>And my recollection is the FBI was at least on

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<v Speaker 1>some level involved with and sometimes inside social media suppressing

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<v Speaker 1>speech of the certain viewpoints. Your reaction to that even happening,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems to me to be something that should be

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<v Speaker 1>way beyond and outside of the FBI's job to tell

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<v Speaker 1>people what they can and cannot say on social media

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<v Speaker 1>or direct social media companies to suppress certain types of

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<v Speaker 1>speech or messages.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, there was no there was no place for that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the relationship that the FBI has with social

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<v Speaker 2>media is a cooperative one to identify potential threats to

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<v Speaker 2>public safety and then work with social media to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>to to put messaging out to people on how they

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<v Speaker 2>can remain safe and then take care of themselves, not

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<v Speaker 2>to suppress speech, not to target certain types of speech,

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<v Speaker 2>whether conservative or liberal, or whatever your your flavor is.

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<v Speaker 2>But the FBI, and it's in its last iteration again,

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<v Speaker 2>allowed its own personal at the leadership level, allowed its

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<v Speaker 2>own personal ideas and beliefs to form some of those

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<v Speaker 2>relationships that were to me unhealthy and took took us

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<v Speaker 2>down a bad path toward that I would call almost

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a certain level of censorship.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, with Cash Mattel being confirmed as the new FBI director,

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<v Speaker 1>your reaction to the confirmation to Cash Hotel generally, and

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<v Speaker 1>do you think he's in a position and can sort

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<v Speaker 1>of right the ship if I can use that term again.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, Well, first of all, I'd like to offer congratulations

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<v Speaker 2>to Director Patel. I'm glad he made it through the confirmation.

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<v Speaker 3>Process as he did. I saw it was a It

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<v Speaker 3>was a.

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty close vote, but these days, I think we received

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<v Speaker 2>voting on these matters that roll along.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, political lines, So it wasn't unexpected.

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<v Speaker 2>As far as mister Patel's future goes, I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's the right guy.

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<v Speaker 3>For right now.

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<v Speaker 2>He has the confidence of the Chief Executive and the

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<v Speaker 2>Attorney General, and I think he actually wants to be

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<v Speaker 2>part of a foundational change of the FBI, and he

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<v Speaker 2>wants to be part of that return of the FBI

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<v Speaker 2>to being that trusted and dependable organization that so many

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<v Speaker 2>people counted on for decades. And you know, he wants

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<v Speaker 2>to return the FBI to the trust of the American people.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think he has a good background. He understands

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<v Speaker 2>the threat environment, that the FBI will be working in

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<v Speaker 2>with him, and I think he's got a form a

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<v Speaker 2>senior leadership team around him to help him make some.

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<v Speaker 3>Of those foundational changes. Those are one of his first

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<v Speaker 3>orders of business.

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<v Speaker 2>He's got to figure out where his command and control

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<v Speaker 2>is going to come from in the organization.

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<v Speaker 1>What kind of reminds me of, in some parallels with

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<v Speaker 1>Pete Hegseth, trying to return the military to its core

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<v Speaker 1>mission of as I boil it down, kill people, and

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<v Speaker 1>break things the military ethos as opposed to DEI and

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<v Speaker 1>expanding you know what, wolf policies and the like, and

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<v Speaker 1>to that end, do you think that had a deleterious

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<v Speaker 1>effect on the FBI those types of policies, the DEI

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<v Speaker 1>and and focusing on things that seem totally unrelated to

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<v Speaker 1>law enforcement.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely terribly damaging to the FBI. The FBI, in

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<v Speaker 2>its core mission set is or to protect us from

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<v Speaker 2>national security threats and crime problems.

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<v Speaker 3>That's what the FBI does.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're good at it when they're allowed to do

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<v Speaker 2>it and they're given.

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<v Speaker 3>The proper leadership environment.

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<v Speaker 2>What we saw over the past four years was a

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<v Speaker 2>series of distractions from the core mission set and we

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<v Speaker 2>also saw again the substitution of some of the senior

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<v Speaker 2>leadership's personal political ideas and ideologies and personal preferences versus

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<v Speaker 2>the objective, apolitical, skilled investigative work that the FBI was

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<v Speaker 2>known for.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and you speak of national security threats and crime,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm rather concerned, and of course I don't. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>alone in my concerns. With the last multiple years of

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<v Speaker 1>open borders. We know of significant numbers of Chinese military age.

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<v Speaker 1>Man not picking on the race of China, but we

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<v Speaker 1>know if they're here and they got here, they probably

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<v Speaker 1>had the approval of the Chinese Communist Party. And therein

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<v Speaker 1>as the challenge, we know that CCP has hacked into

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<v Speaker 1>all kinds of our operations, both in private industry but

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<v Speaker 1>also into the federal government. You're an expert in security

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<v Speaker 1>matters like cyber operations and security practices. Do you view

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<v Speaker 1>this as significant a threat? Is at least I perceive

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<v Speaker 1>it to be, And if so, what can we possibly

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<v Speaker 1>do about it?

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<v Speaker 2>It is an absolutely significant threat. I mean, we have

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<v Speaker 2>allowed a threat environment to form and intensify over the

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<v Speaker 2>past four years like we've never seen before. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the last administration had certain I think ideological or political

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<v Speaker 2>views that they allowed this to happen, and now the

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<v Speaker 2>American people will suffer for it. The FBI has to

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<v Speaker 2>take a look at the current threat environment. We can't

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<v Speaker 2>be fighting the last threat, the last threatn environment like

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<v Speaker 2>the military gets accused of fighting.

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<v Speaker 3>The last war.

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<v Speaker 2>We can't be stuck in the last threat environment.

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<v Speaker 3>We have to look at what we have now.

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<v Speaker 2>When it comes to international adversaries and opponents versus the

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<v Speaker 2>internal threat that is now within our borders. You said

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<v Speaker 2>the unchecked migration of unvetted personnel. These people have come

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<v Speaker 2>to the United States, some seeking a better life, some

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<v Speaker 2>looking to be here for I would say, reasons that

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<v Speaker 2>are not good for our communities. And the FBI has

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<v Speaker 2>to reallocate its resources, reprioritize its operations, and look at

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<v Speaker 2>its current partnerships with other federal, state, and local law

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<v Speaker 2>enforcement to go out and find these people and quantify

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<v Speaker 2>the threats to our communities and keep everybody safe.

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<v Speaker 1>Indeed, and you know, it's just I sit here and

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<v Speaker 1>I look at my watch, going, well, it's just a

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<v Speaker 1>moment in time away for a sleeper cell to launch

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<v Speaker 1>its nefarious activities, and I have to I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>feel just as confident as I can be that part

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<v Speaker 1>of the illegal immigration population are here for the purposes

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<v Speaker 1>of launching nefarious operations like terrorist actions. You're just waiting

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<v Speaker 1>for the green light.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I think you have a group of folks,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, factions of people who may be here for

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<v Speaker 2>something like that, but you also have factions of people

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<v Speaker 2>who are here simply to commit crime, and they're here

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<v Speaker 2>to damage the safety and security of our communities. The

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<v Speaker 2>United States is a relatively soft target. These people come

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<v Speaker 2>from hard, hard lives, and they come from rough places,

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<v Speaker 2>and the United States has always been a fairly high trust,

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<v Speaker 2>high security community, and they come from different places that

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<v Speaker 2>we're not used to certain behaviors and activities, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think we're going to find that the American people are

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<v Speaker 2>going to be subjected to increase crime, violence, and possible,

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<v Speaker 2>as you said, terrorism, Not to mention the national security

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<v Speaker 2>counterintelligence espionage activities that largely go on quietly but also

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<v Speaker 2>damage our national security and welfare.

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<v Speaker 1>Well be up to the FI maybe perhaps engage in

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<v Speaker 1>more widespread use of RICO to go after some of

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<v Speaker 1>these criminal enterprises, like the gangs, for example, if they're

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<v Speaker 1>coordinating efforts two or more people and further and so

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<v Speaker 1>of a criminal activity you're in rico and that's going

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<v Speaker 1>to subject into some serious prosecutorial possibilities there.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, And also the you know, the administration has just

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<v Speaker 2>designated certain international crime international gangs as terrorist organizations, which

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<v Speaker 2>opens up another avenue for use of certain investigative and

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<v Speaker 2>legal tools. So the FBI's got to also make sure

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<v Speaker 2>that it's not overly concerned, which it has been, about

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<v Speaker 2>offending people. Oh, just like other organizations, they're worried about

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<v Speaker 2>offending people and notwith keeping the American people safe.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think that was a mistake. Amen.

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<v Speaker 1>Christopher Plihotel, the name of the book wanted the FBI,

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<v Speaker 1>I once knew how to restore faith in the world's

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<v Speaker 1>premier law enforcement agency a guide to do that. So

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<v Speaker 1>I gotta draw from the name of the book and

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<v Speaker 1>our conversation today. You do have at least some measure

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<v Speaker 1>of hope and this this thing can get turned around

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<v Speaker 1>and they can get back to their core mission.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I think there are people, there are enough people.

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<v Speaker 3>With any FBI who will respond.

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<v Speaker 2>Very favorably to a proper principled leadership environment that focuses

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<v Speaker 2>on upholding the Constitution, protecting the American people, and being

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<v Speaker 2>the SBI of old. And there are enough people who

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<v Speaker 2>are waiting for that environment to come back. They'll snap

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<v Speaker 2>back into place, and they're going to give the people

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<v Speaker 2>back the FBI that we all deserve and need.

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<v Speaker 1>Chris, I'm so happy we're able to end on a

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<v Speaker 1>little dose of optimism at the end.

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<v Speaker 3>There.

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<v Speaker 1>Get a copy of the book.

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<v Speaker 3>You can get it.

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<v Speaker 1>I put your book up at fifty five KC dot

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<v Speaker 1>com on my blog page so people can easily buy

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<v Speaker 1>a copy of an all the courage them to do that. Chris,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for your time today, Thanks for writing the book,

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<v Speaker 1>and I appreciate your, uh well, your work for the

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<v Speaker 1>American people throughout your entire career.