Speaker 1: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 1: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
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Speaker 1: another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous
Speaker 1: killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 1: journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 2: Good Evening.
Speaker 3: Award winning author and journalist Ivor Davis, author of Manson Exposed,
Speaker 3: a Reporter's fifty year journey into madness and Murder, discusses
Speaker 3: he and his wife Sally's investigation into their longtime friend
Speaker 3: and neighbor when he is arrested for the murder of
Speaker 3: his wife and stepson. Ivor and Sally Davis were horrified
Speaker 3: when their Malibu neighbors, Verner Rayler, and her son Doug
Speaker 3: died in a terrible boating accident. The nightmare only continued
Speaker 3: when her husband, their friend Fred Rayler, was arrested and
Speaker 3: then convicted for their murder. As investigative writers, they set
Speaker 3: out hoping to find Railer innocent. Instead, they found a
Speaker 3: viper's nest of deceit and murder. The book they were
Speaker 3: featuring this evening is The Devil in My Friend, The
Speaker 3: Inside Story of a Malibu Murder with my special guests,
Speaker 3: journalist and author Ivor Davis. Welcome to the program, and
Speaker 3: thank you very much for this interview, mister Ivor Davis.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Dan, thank you so much, and congratulations on
Speaker 3: this book, The Devil in My Friend. Let's talk about that.
Speaker 3: You write in the preface that for all of you,
Speaker 3: and I include your wife, Sally, it all began on
Speaker 3: January third, nineteen eighty one, and you were sitting in
Speaker 3: your home and you read in the local paper about
Speaker 3: Verna Roller and her son Douglas, who had drowned the
Speaker 3: day before in the water in the ocean that you
Speaker 3: were familiar with. Tell us about what you read and
Speaker 3: how you were involved in this story.
Speaker 4: Well, when I woke up and I remember this, this
Speaker 4: was a Sunday morning, my wife Sally screamed at me
Speaker 4: and I rushed downstairs and she had the morning paper
Speaker 4: in front of her and there on the front page
Speaker 4: with this story about the death of Verna Rayla and
Speaker 4: her young son Douglas, who I knew and Sally knew
Speaker 4: so well because we'd grown up with them in Malibu,
Speaker 4: which was a beautiful, beautiful community. By the beach in
Speaker 4: southern California, the Idellic community. In this horror story happened
Speaker 4: and we were just and we were just paralyzed what happened.
Speaker 4: And then we discovered that what happened, according to the story,
Speaker 4: was that Verner and her new husband Fred Raila and
Speaker 4: her son Douglas, were out on a pleasure trip at
Speaker 4: Santa Cruz Island, which is just literally you can look
Speaker 4: out the window of my house and you can see
Speaker 4: the islands just off the coast of Santa Barbara and
Speaker 4: Ventura and Malible and we just were paralyzed, and of
Speaker 4: course we went to the funeral. Then you know the reason,
Speaker 4: the reason it was such a shock was number one,
Speaker 4: Fred and Werner had been married for a very very
Speaker 4: short period of time, and Douglas was their son. And
Speaker 4: I knew Fred the bereave father, because he had come
Speaker 4: to me when they got married and said to me,
Speaker 4: I want to get close to my young son, who
Speaker 4: was eight years of age at the time. You are
Speaker 4: the soccer coach of our team in Malibu, the Malibu Lions.
Speaker 4: Can I be your assistant coach? Well, I mean, what
Speaker 4: kind of story? I mean, it was just a heartbreaker,
Speaker 4: I said, of course. And Fred was my assistant coach.
Speaker 4: My son was Gideon, was the same age as as Douglas, exactly,
Speaker 4: and Fred was a terrific assistant coach, although he knew
Speaker 4: nothing about soccer. So all of a sudden, the idyllic
Speaker 4: life that we had been leading was turned upside down.
Speaker 5: And then I must say.
Speaker 4: After the morning and the funeral and stuff like that,
Speaker 4: a few months later, Fred Railer was arrested for the
Speaker 4: murder of Douglas and the murder of Werner, and again
Speaker 4: it was like another arrow to the heart, and I said,
Speaker 4: something has got to be wrong here. It can't be true.
Speaker 4: This is a poor guy who loses his wife and
Speaker 4: stepson soon after they be married, and now he's arrested
Speaker 4: for murder. And what actually happened was, and I'll get
Speaker 4: to the quick, was that I didn't realize this at
Speaker 4: the time. All I knew that Fred's first wife had died,
Speaker 4: but apparently she had died. His first wife had died
Speaker 4: also of drowning. And so somebody called the cops, the
Speaker 4: Santa Barbara Police Department because the island was in their jurisdiction,
Speaker 4: and said, losing one wife by drowning is a terrible tragedy.
Speaker 4: Losing two wives is more than a tragedy. You've got
Speaker 4: to investigate. And they did and the bottom line was
Speaker 4: it they discovered that Fred Rayla had eight that eight
Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars insurance on his young step son and
Speaker 4: his new wife.
Speaker 3: Now let's go back to how everything is discovered, and
Speaker 3: in doing this, tell us about the book project that
Speaker 3: you discussed with Fred and what came a bit in
Speaker 3: how you proceeded.
Speaker 4: Initially, Well, Sally and I have been writers all our lives,
Speaker 4: and so we were intrigued by this. Somebody who we'd been,
Speaker 4: who we felt was innocent, was wrongly accused of a terrible,
Speaker 4: terrible murder. And so we spoke to Fred and said,
Speaker 4: you know, I mean to be honest with you, We
Speaker 4: hadn't thought of a book right at the beginning. But
Speaker 4: then we ended up going to the murder trial, which
Speaker 4: took place in Santa Barbara, California, and we sat through
Speaker 4: the trial and we thought, well, Fred Rayler is going
Speaker 4: to get acquitted. He's going to get acquitted. And we
Speaker 4: watched the evidence for about eight or nine months every day,
Speaker 4: and guess what happened they found him guilty. Well, we thought,
Speaker 4: our friend has been wrongly accused and wrongly convicted. We
Speaker 4: have got to do something, and so we embarked on
Speaker 4: an independent investigation into Fred's life and we were very
Speaker 4: friendly with Fred. Sally and I, my own son and daughter,
Speaker 4: visited Fred at the horrible falsehome prison where he was.
Speaker 4: He'd been sentenced to life without possibility of parole, and
Speaker 4: that's instead of the death penalty in California. So we
Speaker 4: visited him, and then at that stage, Fred Rayler said,
Speaker 4: why don't you write a book? Because what have I
Speaker 4: got to lose? And so off we went on our
Speaker 4: journey of discovery and guess what. We discovered that Fred
Speaker 4: Rayler was not only guilty we felt of the murderer
Speaker 4: of Werner and Douglas, but he probably murdered his first wife, Jean,
Speaker 4: a beautiful airline stewardess, and got away with it. So
Speaker 4: we were confronted by this. I went to see him
Speaker 4: in falsehom prison. I said, Fred, we went back to
Speaker 4: your hometown and we spoke to all the people you mentioned,
Speaker 4: and they weren't all flattering. And Fred said, I want
Speaker 4: you to give me every single transcript of your interview
Speaker 4: and I will answer it. And I said, Fred, I
Speaker 4: can't do that because a lot of these people wouldn't
Speaker 4: speak to me in Richmond, Indiana, your hometown, because they
Speaker 4: thought that we were in the private investigators trying to
Speaker 4: get you out of prison, and so.
Speaker 5: I can't do that. And from that moment on, I never.
Speaker 4: Ever spoke to Fred Rayler again, and we pursued the book.
Speaker 4: We actually wrote the book many years ago. But I
Speaker 4: don't want to get too complex here, Dan, but basically
Speaker 4: what happened was Fred was able to block the book
Speaker 4: because he threatened to soothe them. And at that time
Speaker 4: there was another famous murder going on called Jeffrey McDonald,
Speaker 4: the Green Beret captain who was tied up with McGinnis
Speaker 4: and I've forgotten what McGinnis's first name is. And McGinnis
Speaker 4: wrote a book called Fatal Vision about this, about this
Speaker 4: guy and the trial in which in which Jeffrey McDonald
Speaker 4: sued the author McGinnis was on. It lasted nine months,
Speaker 4: it cost eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars, a lot
Speaker 4: of money then, and it was undissolved. So my publisher
Speaker 4: chickened out. Fast forward forty years.
Speaker 5: And my book is out.
Speaker 2: Wow, it was a long.
Speaker 4: Unwinding I'm sorry about but I'm sure if you go ahead,
Speaker 4: go ahead.
Speaker 3: Down, Well, let's go back, because this is what you
Speaker 3: do in the book. You go back to his childhood,
Speaker 3: Fred Rayler's childhood in Centerville, Indiana. You say his hometown
Speaker 3: was Richmond, but he was an inland boy. So anyway,
Speaker 3: you take us to Santa Barbara and January sixth, So
Speaker 3: soon after Fred is discovered with Verna and Douglas are dead,
Speaker 3: and a deputy Larry Gillespie, thirty six year old, he's
Speaker 3: a corner's assistant with the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department, and
Speaker 3: he gets a call from missus Candy Hinman of Malibu.
Speaker 3: Now what she has to say and what does Larry
Speaker 3: Gillespie do other than taking notes?
Speaker 5: Well, you know, the.
Speaker 4: Police always get odd calls here and there, and they
Speaker 4: pay attention to it because this is what they have
Speaker 4: to do. So Larry Gillespie gets his call from Candy Hinman,
Speaker 4: who is a mother and a friend of Verna Rayler
Speaker 4: and also a friend of Jean Railer, the first wife,
Speaker 4: and Candy offers a devastating two liner. She says this
Speaker 4: fred Rayler loses his first wife in a drowning accident
Speaker 4: is a terrible tragedy, but to lose a second wife
Speaker 4: and stepson in a drowning accident needs to be looked into.
Speaker 4: It stinks, and the Gillespie, who the investigator, looks into it,
Speaker 4: and then the whole investigation begins and interviews with Fred
Speaker 4: Rayler and leading to Fred's arrest. When the police discover
Speaker 4: that Fred Rayler has benefited to the tune of eight
Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars. An eight hundred thousand dollars in the
Speaker 4: eighties is worth probably three four million dollars today. There's
Speaker 4: still a lot of money. And the cops are very
Speaker 4: suspicious because why would Fred Rayler take a sixty thousand
Speaker 4: dollars life insurance policy on an eight year old boy.
Speaker 4: The case begins to smell. The cops think they've got
Speaker 4: something going, and they do end up arresting.
Speaker 5: Him, and the trout unfolds in Santa Barbara.
Speaker 3: Now, what are some of the things that they employ
Speaker 3: to be able to as police do narrow a defendant
Speaker 3: to a story and then later requestioning them once he's
Speaker 3: in a certain position with that story. Tell us what
Speaker 3: fred puts himself in that corner. But also his behavior
Speaker 3: during the interrogation.
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, Fred Rayler plays the innocent man.
Speaker 4: First of all, the cops visit him two or three times,
Speaker 4: and he's very sociable and to be honest with you,
Speaker 4: Fred Rayler is one of these guys, it turns out,
Speaker 4: who is I mean, a sociopath or the kind of
Speaker 4: guy who thinks he can sit down with you and
Speaker 4: I and he can explain anything away and if he
Speaker 4: talks about it, you and I will believe every single word.
Speaker 4: Of course, the cops don't believe every single word for
Speaker 4: the reasons I've explained heavy insurance why is that? And
Speaker 4: they kind of get to know Fred Rayler. They come
Speaker 4: and see him two or three times. When they come
Speaker 4: and see him in Malibu, they are impressed by the
Speaker 4: fact that this is a bereaving husband who is looking
Speaker 4: after his two is young children, his daughters, and it
Speaker 4: takes him a bit of time to realize that that
Speaker 4: this is more than it appears. And Fred Rayler of
Speaker 4: course thinks he can talk his way out of anything,
Speaker 4: but he doesn't talk his way out of this because,
Speaker 4: of course he arrested and he's charged and he's convicted,
Speaker 4: and I don't want to spoil the story, but he
Speaker 4: is convicted, as you as you know, and that's that's
Speaker 4: why it's such an interesting story, and that's why when
Speaker 4: we came into it, we thought we could turn the
Speaker 4: tables and get him unconvicted.
Speaker 5: But it didn't happen.
Speaker 3: As you write in this book, you embark on this investigation,
Speaker 3: so you look into his first wife, Jean's suspicious death,
Speaker 3: her drowning death, and what do you find.
Speaker 4: We find that it is very, very suspicious. But the
Speaker 4: amazing thing is you've got to realize this Dan that
Speaker 4: we had attended every day in the in the courthouse,
Speaker 4: and the amazing thing was the jury that was listening
Speaker 4: to the case heard many days of testimony about the
Speaker 4: suspicious death of Fred's first wife, and then, believe it
Speaker 4: or not, the same jury were told by the judge
Speaker 4: the death of Fred Brayler's first wife has nothing whatsoever
Speaker 4: to do with the death of his second wife. So
Speaker 4: you are to forget what you've heard, tear up your notes,
Speaker 4: and let's get on with the case of this murder
Speaker 4: of the second wife and the step son. So you know, psychologically,
Speaker 4: the jury have heard this testimony about he may have
Speaker 4: killed his first wife, but they are asked to forget it.
Speaker 4: Come on, and that you know, in retrospect, Dan, isn't
Speaker 4: that a hard thing to forget?
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 3: You also cite that this became a battle of experts,
Speaker 3: as many of these high profile trials do. But the
Speaker 3: defense had employed two of the best and most noted
Speaker 3: pathologists in the world, if not especially in the US,
Speaker 3: and so that testimony was very compelling, at least in
Speaker 3: its cart, wasn't it.
Speaker 4: It was very compelling testimony. But let me tell you,
Speaker 4: when you are in the jury, and you are you know,
Speaker 4: a common a typical juror, this testimony about, well, was
Speaker 4: their damage to Douglas's head from from a deliberate injury,
Speaker 4: And that we listened to days and days and days
Speaker 4: of technological evidence from so called experts. There was bruising
Speaker 4: to Douglas's head, There was bruising to Werner's head. No,
Speaker 4: there wasn't. Yes, there was. And by the time you know,
Speaker 4: the third week of expert testimony came around, the jury
Speaker 4: were bamboozled. And I'm not surprised because I was bamboozled,
Speaker 4: and so was everybody else in the court, and yet
Speaker 4: I think, you know, without jumping the gun. Then I
Speaker 4: think part of the problem and why Fred Rayler was
Speaker 4: convicted was when he decided, as many defendants do, to testify.
Speaker 5: In his own defense.
Speaker 4: And that was not a good idea, but he did,
Speaker 4: and he got up there and he cried and he
Speaker 4: told the story. But the jury were not impressed with him.
Speaker 4: Later on, the jurors said he was cold, he was calculating,
Speaker 4: and he made a mistake. Because, as you may know,
Speaker 4: and I don't know what it's like in the rest
Speaker 4: of the world, a defendant does not have to testify
Speaker 4: in his own defense. However, jurors sometimes feel, and I
Speaker 4: don't know what your experience has been, Dan, and you're
Speaker 4: widely experienced, duras feel that what this guy is trying
Speaker 4: to hide something? Why doesn't he tell us why he
Speaker 4: is innocent? And of course a defendant doesn't have to
Speaker 4: do that. But Fred decided he was going to get
Speaker 4: up He testified for many, many days. The district attorney
Speaker 4: Stanley Roden had the opportunity to Truss examine him, and
Speaker 4: that was a very hot event and they sort of
Speaker 4: hated each other. But that made made the the the
Speaker 4: actual trial more like a kind of a play, a
Speaker 4: high drama. What was that great film with Gregory Pekin
Speaker 4: of the old days? Oh gosh, I've forgotten about some
Speaker 4: of the great trials. And that's part of the I
Speaker 4: want say, the fun as part of the entertainment. When
Speaker 4: when a good prosecutor goes up against an accused defendant
Speaker 4: and it's it's it's fisticuffs verbally.
Speaker 5: All the way.
Speaker 3: Let's Jesus as an opportunity to stop to hear these messages. Now,
Speaker 3: what we haven't talked about for our audience is Fred's background.
Speaker 3: The the thing that makes the prosecutor part of his
Speaker 3: case is that he can't believe that this person with
Speaker 3: this incredible background could have this incredible misfortune and screw
Speaker 3: up and which resulted in the death of his wife,
Speaker 3: Verna and his son or her son, Douglas. So tell
Speaker 3: us what his official story is when he's rescued by
Speaker 3: this boat and what he says in terms of how
Speaker 3: Verna and Douglas came to their deaths.
Speaker 4: So what happens is this is an idyllic day. Fred
Speaker 4: in his new yacht is showing off the new yacht
Speaker 4: to his parents who've come from the Midwest, and his
Speaker 4: brother and his sister in law, and they're all out
Speaker 4: in the yacht when Fred says, I'm going to We're
Speaker 4: going to go out and take some pictures of an
Speaker 4: area of the island called bird Rock, which is basically
Speaker 4: a beautiful rock covered in bird poop. So Fred goes
Speaker 4: out with Douglas and their new beagle puppy and Werner
Speaker 4: in a little rubber dingy dory to take some pictures.
Speaker 4: And while Fred is taking the pictures, according to him,
Speaker 4: the dog jumps at some seagulls, the dory overturns. Fred
Speaker 4: is trapped by his camera strap underneath the dory and
Speaker 4: when he finally loosens the camera strap and comes up,
Speaker 4: he discovers his wife and his stepson floating on their
Speaker 4: face in this little remote pocket of the island and
Speaker 4: grabs them. I mean, this is an incredible scene. He
Speaker 4: grabs Werner in one hand, Douglas in the other hand.
Speaker 4: He puts the beagle puppy on his head, but he's
Speaker 4: unable to push them onto safety and he and when
Speaker 4: he is rescued, Fred Rayler has this the dog, the wife,
Speaker 4: the step son, and he's pulled aboard, and they try
Speaker 4: and the rescuers who see him screaming for help, give
Speaker 4: him mouth to mouth, and unfortunately, by the time the
Speaker 4: Coastguard gets there, they take they take Douglas and Verna
Speaker 4: in and they're both dead. Fred has survived this terrible ordeal,
Speaker 4: and so has the dog. The dog has been pushed
Speaker 4: onto the island to say to safety. So it sounds
Speaker 4: like an awful tragedy, and it is. But they then
Speaker 4: you look at it and you say, well, Fred Rayler
Speaker 4: grew up in the ocean. Fred Rayler was a powerful swimmer.
Speaker 4: Fred Rayler laid under sea cables for the US Navy.
Speaker 4: Fred rayler Is second home is in the water. Why
Speaker 4: couldn't a guy like that save his wife and stepson.
Speaker 4: But again it's a conflict, I mean, his story versus
Speaker 4: what really happened.
Speaker 5: And so.
Speaker 4: During the trial we hear all this, and we hear
Speaker 4: and we think, those of us who are in sympathy
Speaker 4: with Fred, say, wh my god, it's a terrible tragedy.
Speaker 4: Number one wife died in the swimming pool and number
Speaker 4: two wife dies in the ocean with her son. So
Speaker 4: it adds up to a bizarre kind of scenario. But
Speaker 4: the bottom line is, and this is really important, when
Speaker 4: we go back to his hometown, we discover that when
Speaker 4: Fred Rayler and his family have terrible accidents their car burns,
Speaker 4: a boat, they have burnt, a guest house they have burned,
Speaker 4: and what happens each time they claim on the insurance
Speaker 4: and they get the money. And then my investigation with Sally,
Speaker 4: as soon as I saw that, the hairs on my
Speaker 4: neck kind of stood up because fred Rayler family had
Speaker 4: claimed on all those A burnt car, a burnt a
Speaker 4: burnt guest house, a burnt something else, and they got insurance.
Speaker 4: And Fred Rayler came to California and guess what His
Speaker 4: car burned, his guesthouse burned, and there were other similarities
Speaker 4: and you couldn't And the moment moment I saw that,
Speaker 4: as I said, the hairs of my neck stood up,
Speaker 4: and I said to my wife Sally, this is bizarre.
Speaker 4: I mean a man, a man can be unlucky, but
Speaker 4: this guy is unlucky.
Speaker 5: Well quab ruperly.
Speaker 4: And then that's when I realized that this was a
Speaker 4: racket and the Fred rail had been making money as
Speaker 4: his family did by claiming insurance money and getting the
Speaker 4: money and the inanimate objects like guesthouses and cars and
Speaker 4: boats led to insurance claims on real human beings, and
Speaker 4: that was the moment I realized that he was guilty.
Speaker 3: You talk about the charges that he was convicted for,
Speaker 3: and one of moe was with murder for profit. So
Speaker 3: you talk about when you investigate the character of Fred
Speaker 3: Railer and you speak to other people that were friends
Speaker 3: of Jean, and how she feared for her life and
Speaker 3: was trying was on the verge of getting a divorce.
Speaker 3: Tell us a little bit more about this divorce and
Speaker 3: what Thread supposedly agreed to and what Jean believed in
Speaker 3: her heart.
Speaker 4: The investigation that we did, and we spoke to her family,
Speaker 4: We spoke to her friends in the who were airline,
Speaker 4: airline stewardesses and people like that. They said Jane was very,
Speaker 4: very unhappy in her marriage with Fred, and she was
Speaker 4: about to divorce him. But Fred Rayler and his family said,
Speaker 4: we have never had a divorce in our family, and
Speaker 4: we're not going to have a divorce in our family.
Speaker 4: And so rather than face the ignomy of a divorce,
Speaker 4: Fred obviously and in course he wasn't accused of and
Speaker 4: he wasn't convicted of decided that he would maybe eradicate
Speaker 4: his first wife. Of course, again I say that, but
Speaker 4: he was never found guilty of killing his first wife,
Speaker 4: although there was so much suspicion. So Jean Rayler was
Speaker 4: hoping to get out of her marriage to Fred Rayler.
Speaker 4: She didn't because she died first and her romantic notions
Speaker 4: which were a little bit overblown from what I discovered.
Speaker 4: You know, Fred brainer was not going to give his
Speaker 4: wife a divorce, and so she ended up dying in
Speaker 4: the backyard swimming pool.
Speaker 3: In your investigation, you also found out about Berna as well,
Speaker 3: and her feelings and her background and how she came
Speaker 3: to be involved with Red and her past with her
Speaker 3: own husband, Bill Johnson.
Speaker 4: Yes, again, it's like a jigsaw puzzle, you put it
Speaker 4: all together. We knew that Werner Rayla was a widow
Speaker 4: because her husband, Bill had died in a terrible accident
Speaker 4: in Los Angeles. He was in the building department and
Speaker 4: he was a builder, and he apparently fell off the
Speaker 4: roof of a high rise building. However, it turned out
Speaker 4: that her marriage to her first husband was also tinged
Speaker 4: with tragedy because Bill was a severe depressant. He had
Speaker 4: severe depression problems, and apparently he had jumped off the
Speaker 4: roof of the building and killed himself. But of course
Speaker 4: Bernard didn't want to say it was suicide because the
Speaker 4: suicide would have reflected a rejection of their marriage, so
Speaker 4: she said it was an accident. But that then we
Speaker 4: discovered that it wasn't an accident. So here you had
Speaker 4: this needy, beautiful young widow and Fred who was a
Speaker 4: very handsome young widower, and they came together in Malibu,
Speaker 4: and guess what, they get married, and what a beautiful
Speaker 4: wedding it is on the beach, and everybody in Malibu
Speaker 4: smiles and says, yes, there is a happy ever after
Speaker 4: story here. But of course it's just a new chapter
Speaker 4: in the Fred Railer tragedy. So again we as a viewer,
Speaker 4: but we as a sort of person on the sidelines
Speaker 4: that when I say that, my wife and I see
Speaker 4: what's going on, and we think, isn't this wonderful?
Speaker 5: Too?
Speaker 4: Bereaved people get together, they have a perfect marriage, and
Speaker 4: then it ends in tragedy with the drowning. So there's
Speaker 4: a lot of little pieces to assemble this in this
Speaker 4: true life jigsaw puzzle. Of murder and conspiracy and horror
Speaker 4: and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: You find out and you dig, and you find out
Speaker 3: that that Verna had a, I guess, an odd perspective
Speaker 3: on the marriage, and she had said that she was
Speaker 3: not in love and that he was not in love.
Speaker 3: Explain her rationale for marriage despite not being in love.
Speaker 4: Well, don't forget both of them have lost their spouses.
Speaker 4: They live in a very small community of Malibu, where
Speaker 4: everybody knows what's going on. Verna we know about because
Speaker 4: she taught kindergarten our children, and when you see she
Speaker 4: lives in Malibu, she's very conscious about her social a
Speaker 4: place in society in Malibu. And we discover, of course
Speaker 4: later on, that Berner knows the problems that Fred was
Speaker 4: having with his first wife. In fact, Verne used to
Speaker 4: babysit Fred's children.
Speaker 5: So it's a kind.
Speaker 4: Of a bizarre web of I know what's going on.
Speaker 4: But Berna decides she also wants to look respectable, and
Speaker 4: so she goes along with marrying Fred, the man who
Speaker 4: she knows had a terrible relationship with his first wife.
Speaker 4: But Verna wants Erna is very much a young woman
Speaker 4: of show. She wants to show that even though she's
Speaker 4: had tragedy in her life, she can find true happiness.
Speaker 4: And again, when you look at it, look at it
Speaker 4: the way I'm looking at it, and the way you
Speaker 4: and I are discussing it, you can understand the psychology
Speaker 4: of Werner Rayla, who is also a tragic woman in
Speaker 4: a way, who decides that Fred Rayler, despite his handicaps,
Speaker 4: is the way to true happiness. And of course it
Speaker 4: turns out to be a complete fast and it isn't
Speaker 4: as we know. So you've got to understand that society Malibu,
Speaker 4: it's a show off society, movie stars and regular folk,
Speaker 4: and Fred Rayler and his family were regular folk, mingling
Speaker 4: with the likes of Ali McGraw and Steve McQueen and
Speaker 4: Larry Hagman and all the people that lived in Malibu.
Speaker 4: So front, whether its force or not, was very important
Speaker 4: to Werner, and she actually succumbed. She knew that she
Speaker 4: probably shouldn't have married Fred Rayler, but she did, and
Speaker 4: then it cost her her life.
Speaker 3: He knows also from his wife Jean about Vernon and
Speaker 3: her promiscuity, and despite that, it seems that Brad really
Speaker 3: likes the image of having children.
Speaker 4: It is the image that you're absolutely right down the
Speaker 4: image which I didn't realize. I thought Fred was a
Speaker 4: down to earth guy and his clogs and his beat
Speaker 4: up old car. But he knew what image was. Don't forget.
Speaker 4: Mallible was a small community, movie stars and regular folk.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: Verna was so I mean to marry a handsome guy
Speaker 4: who tragically lost his wife. Was really a feather in
Speaker 4: her cap. She didn't realize what kind of fatal feather
Speaker 4: it was, but it was. And looking back, you can
Speaker 4: see it clearly. But you couldn't see it clearly then
Speaker 4: because things were unfolding on a day to day, month
Speaker 4: to month, week to week basis, and people deluded themselves.
Speaker 4: And this is the way people are, I'm sure in
Speaker 4: your experience of meeting people, you know, people know something
Speaker 4: is awry, something is wrong, but they'll cover the blemishes
Speaker 4: for the sake of a peaceful life.
Speaker 3: Yes, what we haven't spoken about is this very very
Speaker 3: very interesting break for the police when they need more
Speaker 3: evidence Larry Gillespie at first, but detectives Fred Ray and
Speaker 3: his partner Toller, they need more evidence, according to the prosecutor,
Speaker 3: and so they go back and do a second autopsy.
Speaker 2: Tell us about this incredible turn of events.
Speaker 4: Well, the incredible turn of events is that once Vernon
Speaker 4: and dug had died, their bodies were being held in
Speaker 4: the Los Angeles Westwood Mortuary. They were about to be cremated,
Speaker 4: and the cops say, well, we are this stinks. Let's
Speaker 4: get hold of the bodies, and they get they get
Speaker 4: a police order, they get the legal order that they
Speaker 4: enable them to get the bodies. However, they call out
Speaker 4: the mortuary and they say, do you still have the
Speaker 4: bodies of Douglas Johnson and Verna Railer And the mortari says,
Speaker 4: let's see, uh yeah, let's see. We were due to
Speaker 4: cremate them four days ago, but we've been overloaded and
Speaker 4: we still have the bodies. And the cops say, don't
Speaker 4: go away, we'll be over there in an hour. And
Speaker 4: they go over and they pick up the bodies, which
Speaker 4: are then autopsied by their own autopsy people. And according
Speaker 4: to their own autopsy people, they find bruises on the
Speaker 4: head of Douglas and even Werner. And if the bodies
Speaker 4: had been cremated, probably you and I would not be
Speaker 4: talking about this case today.
Speaker 5: What a what a stroke of luck for them and
Speaker 5: you write that.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, Fred Railer thinks that the bodies have been cremated
Speaker 3: a week before he does.
Speaker 5: He does.
Speaker 4: He believes that because, you know, because that's what that's
Speaker 4: what he thinks happens. He doesn't realize that they have
Speaker 4: a backlog at the mortuary. And this is the biggest break.
Speaker 4: The prosecution has to retrieve two bodies that should have
Speaker 4: been cremated days earlier, and it gives them the groundwork,
Speaker 4: if you like, for the medical tests.
Speaker 5: The autopsy is done.
Speaker 4: Again and again and and and it is you know,
Speaker 4: one of those of life that you can't actually predict,
Speaker 4: but it happens and so unpredictable. But fortunately for the
Speaker 4: prosecution it works for them.
Speaker 2: That's incredible.
Speaker 3: You a very vivid scene where you have that they
Speaker 3: have a deadline. They do the second autopsy doesn't seem
Speaker 3: to be enough, but they've recorded it, they've filmed it all,
Speaker 3: and then when it's reviewed by another expert, he says,
Speaker 3: I can conclude that these were pre mortem.
Speaker 4: So yeah, well, I mean that's the interesting thing Dan
Speaker 4: that once the trial unfolded, and I may have mentioned
Speaker 4: this now, I don't think I did. We sat there
Speaker 4: for weeks and weeks of autopsy details that actually finally
Speaker 4: almost put the jury to sleep, because you know, you
Speaker 4: can talk about bruises on the head for a day,
Speaker 4: two days, two weeks, three weeks, and the jury actually
Speaker 4: almost had to, you know, ask for Nodo's pills because
Speaker 4: it's too much for the layman and the lay woman
Speaker 4: to understand all these three mortem, post mortem, middle mortem injuries.
Speaker 4: And we got all that laid out in graphic detail
Speaker 4: during the long trial.
Speaker 3: Let's get back to his downfall in the end, was
Speaker 3: wanting to be the star witness.
Speaker 2: As people may know, this is not a.
Speaker 3: Good idea in almost any case, but if somebody wants to,
Speaker 3: and this narcissistic sociopath would want to. But before we
Speaker 3: talk about a little more about just how we behaved
Speaker 3: on that stand, you say that once the prosecutor prosecution
Speaker 3: rested their case, that Fred Railer gave you a call
Speaker 3: about that book.
Speaker 4: Yeah, once the prosecution rested the case called us and said,
Speaker 4: I know you were planning to write a book about this,
Speaker 4: but forget about it because I'm going to be acquitted
Speaker 4: and and I don't want to disrupt the family again,
Speaker 4: and we'll all get on with our lives, and of
Speaker 4: course Fred Rayler was convicted, and as soon as he
Speaker 4: was convicted, had we got another call from prison in
Speaker 4: which he says, why don't you go ahead with the
Speaker 4: with the book, because I've got nothing to lose, because
Speaker 4: he was now a convicted killer. He was now convicted,
Speaker 4: and he'd been given parole, sorry, he had been given
Speaker 4: life without possibility of parole. I and Iro about a
Speaker 4: dozen other friends and people that knew him testified to
Speaker 4: the jury to ask them to beg them not to
Speaker 4: give Fred Rayler the gas chamber, and of course even
Speaker 4: the daughters testified for their father to the plead to
Speaker 4: the jury not to give them the death penalty. So
Speaker 4: Fred Brayler realized, now he'd been convicted, that he had
Speaker 4: nothing to lose. And as I said at the beginning
Speaker 4: of our conversation, Dan, we believed he was innocent. We
Speaker 4: believed he'd been not railroaded, but we believed there was
Speaker 4: not enough evidence to convict. And so off we went
Speaker 4: on our journey that I mentioned to you earlier in
Speaker 4: our conversation, in the belief we could find that he
Speaker 4: was an innocent man wrongly convicted. And Fred Railer, of
Speaker 4: course had nothing to lose because he was already convicted.
Speaker 4: So off we went on our investigation that I've told
Speaker 4: you about a few minutes ago, and discovered that not
Speaker 4: only did he kill his first wife, but he was
Speaker 4: never charged with Obviously, the death of Werner and Douglas
Speaker 4: was not an accident.
Speaker 3: That Jesus as an opportunity to stop to hear these messages.
Speaker 3: As I mentioned, the very vivid part of this book
Speaker 3: is Fred Railer taking the stand in all confidence and
Speaker 3: then you writing that yourself and Sally and friends, and
Speaker 3: we hadn't mentioned the lawyer that almost takes the blame
Speaker 3: for all of the life insurance and the estate planning,
Speaker 3: his good friend and attorney, Bill Fairfield, even though everyone
Speaker 3: got to see his testimony on the stand. You say that,
Speaker 3: regardless of that, you still believed. And more importantly, Fred
Speaker 3: believed that he was going to succeed over a prosecutor Rodent,
Speaker 3: didn't he.
Speaker 4: Yes, You've got to realize this that Fred Railer is
Speaker 4: a very arrogant man. Fred Rayler decided, much to the
Speaker 4: chagrin of his defense to that he would get up
Speaker 4: in front of the jury and tell them what happened,
Speaker 4: and guess what they would believe every single word he said.
Speaker 4: It didn't happen that way because when Fred Rayler got
Speaker 4: on the stand again, a much much against the advice
Speaker 4: of his defense team, he decided to tell his story.
Speaker 4: There was tears, there was coldness, there was there was
Speaker 4: a combativeness with the district attorney, of course, and I
Speaker 4: think the jury saw the real Fred Rayler. Fred Rayler
Speaker 4: decided he would tell his story and of course the
Speaker 4: jury would believe him. They never did, And when we
Speaker 4: spoke to some of the jurors afterwards, they said he
Speaker 4: was a bit cold, he was a bit calculated. He
Speaker 4: turned on the tears when it suited him. He made
Speaker 4: a terrible witness for himself. And he probably should never
Speaker 4: have testified because the evidence was always somewhat flimsy. The
Speaker 4: bruises were there, bruises where they're not bruises. But Fred decided,
Speaker 4: as he does it did in all his life, if
Speaker 4: he gave them the version of what happened, they would
Speaker 4: believe him. And of course the jury did not believe
Speaker 4: him because he was too cold, and he was too
Speaker 4: you know, just just this whole demeanor. And I think
Speaker 4: if he'd not testified in his own defense. He probably
Speaker 4: would be a free man today. But who knows.
Speaker 3: The strength of this man's charm and to be able
Speaker 3: to fool people, even the judge or more. For some
Speaker 3: of the trial you right believed that Fred was innocent,
Speaker 3: but also the prosecutor Rodin, And maybe you could tell
Speaker 3: us about yourself. Going to the scene of where Fred
Speaker 3: described these events and Saverna and Douglas dying.
Speaker 4: The event happened in this idyllic spot about ten miles
Speaker 4: off the coast of Malibu of Santa Barbara called Santa
Speaker 4: Cruz Island. It's a beautiful spot. It's an uninhabited island.
Speaker 4: It's a beautiful retreat for animals that people don't live.
Speaker 5: On the island.
Speaker 4: And Fred's story was, as I mentioned it a little earlier.
Speaker 4: He had said that he couldn't push the kids the
Speaker 4: bodies of Werner and Douglas onto the rocks. So I
Speaker 4: decided to go out in a boat to see how
Speaker 4: bad it was. Now I'm not a strong swimmer, Fred
Speaker 4: Rayler was a powerful swimmer. I got into the water
Speaker 4: and I discovered you could actually get up onto the rocks,
Speaker 4: and I thought, well, why didn't Fred take the bodies?
Speaker 4: You know, surviving bodies of his wife and his step
Speaker 4: son onto the rocks, but Fred said he couldn't. He
Speaker 4: said the rocks were too jagged. So when I went
Speaker 4: back and told him that I'd gone out to the island,
Speaker 4: he kind of pooh poohed my experiment and said, well,
Speaker 4: you know, you left to go to the islands from
Speaker 4: the wrong place. You should have left from Ventura instead
Speaker 4: of Santa Barbara. And he came up with some cocker
Speaker 4: maimie reason why my personal research was beloney. Maybe he
Speaker 4: was right, but I don't think so, because since then
Speaker 4: I've been out to the island two or three times
Speaker 4: to try and see if what he said could be true.
Speaker 4: And he could have pushed the bodies or he could
Speaker 4: have clambered onto the island. He got the dog onto
Speaker 4: the island. The dog survived, Bernard and Douglas didn't. So
Speaker 4: Fred was very upset when I told him I'd done that,
Speaker 4: because it indicated that I was questioning his veracity, which
Speaker 4: I was, And I thought his explanation of what of
Speaker 4: my experiment, saying you know you left from the wrong harbor.
Speaker 4: It would have been different if you left from Venture
Speaker 4: instead of Santa bar blah blah blah blah was full
Speaker 4: of boloney, and so Fred could kind of explain works
Speaker 4: in his story the way I've just described, which was
Speaker 4: somewhat ridiculous in my mind.
Speaker 3: You're right too that in the investigation by the detectives,
Speaker 3: they do some experiments themselves about this notion or the
Speaker 3: idea that the boat overturned, and then through the prosecution
Speaker 3: and the detectives worked, the prosecution at trial says that
Speaker 3: he could have, basically if the boat overturned, draped the
Speaker 3: two bodies over the boat and been able to survive
Speaker 3: and be able to get the attention of boats that
Speaker 3: were in the area.
Speaker 4: Yes, you're absolutely right on that. But Fred's story, as
Speaker 4: I might have mentioned a few minutes ago, was that
Speaker 4: when the boat this little rubber dinghy overturned, he and
Speaker 4: Werner and Douglas were trapped under the boat, and by
Speaker 4: the time he untangled his camera trap and came up,
Speaker 4: Werner and Douglas were floating lifelessly in the water. So
Speaker 4: who knows. You know that the prosecution tried to recreate it,
Speaker 4: and then the judge ruled it out and said you can't.
Speaker 4: You can't recreate a set of circumstances, but it was
Speaker 4: the whole scenario stank badly, mainly because Fred Rayler was
Speaker 4: a deep sea diver. Fred Rayler knew the water there perfectly.
Speaker 4: He'd laid cables in that area. He knew it like
Speaker 4: the back of his hand. And the story sounded feeble.
Speaker 3: You say that to this day that his daughters, Kirsten
Speaker 3: and Kimberly and I've forgotten the other girl's name, they
Speaker 3: continue to support the idea and in fact have done
Speaker 3: a lot of work to petition governors to let their
Speaker 3: set their father free.
Speaker 4: How many Yes, yes, there's no doubt. I mean, the
Speaker 4: girls are true believers. But but psychologically, I mean, if
Speaker 4: you talk to anybody who who is a psychologist, they
Speaker 4: would explain that they had tied their anchor to their
Speaker 4: father's story, and after all these years, if they were
Speaker 4: to admit that their father was a liar or that
Speaker 4: they didn't believe him, it would destroy their lives. And
Speaker 4: I have great, so much sympathy for them because you know,
Speaker 4: they've gone along with this story for so long, and
Speaker 4: to turn their own lives up side down and admit
Speaker 4: that maybe Fred Rayla is a cold blooded murderer, you
Speaker 4: know you can't live with that.
Speaker 5: So you've got to understand.
Speaker 4: Human nature, and I know you do because you deal
Speaker 4: with a lot of people in these circumstances. That can
Speaker 4: you imagine if they woke up one day, several decades later,
Speaker 4: as it is, and said, you know, my dad did it,
Speaker 4: their whole life lives would be a lie.
Speaker 5: And you know you can't live with that.
Speaker 4: After so many decades of believing one version. And so
Speaker 4: it is a tragedy, a terrible tragedy that they've gone
Speaker 4: along with this for so long and there's no way
Speaker 4: out for them.
Speaker 3: You point out it's very interesting and somewhat compelling to
Speaker 3: note that Camilla Zeitner and John stun School where both
Speaker 3: the daughters were killed by Fred, and yet to the
Speaker 3: end stand behind Fred and history.
Speaker 4: Well, yes, exactly. That's another brilliant observation then, because yes,
Speaker 4: that was the case. I mean, I think I think
Speaker 4: Jean Rayla, the first wife's sisters, believe Fred was guilty,
Speaker 4: but their parents, who are who were true believers and
Speaker 4: had a great religious conviction about them, felt that if
Speaker 4: they I mean, if they had contemplated that their son
Speaker 4: in law was a cold budded killer, it would have
Speaker 4: been a dagger in their hearts, and they probably went
Speaker 4: to their grave realizing that maybe Fred was guilty, but
Speaker 4: they couldn't mention it to their grandchildren. It's a dilemma
Speaker 4: that none of us can imagine experiencing. Just ask anyone
Speaker 4: and then if you know, you lay this scenario out,
Speaker 4: and it's such an awful contemplation of saying, well, I'm
Speaker 4: here's the truth, and we have all been believing this
Speaker 4: man and he's a liar, and he murdered my daughter.
Speaker 4: And cam was an older lady who had very little
Speaker 4: in life and was very much beholden to the good
Speaker 4: graces of her new son in law. So again, a
Speaker 4: gyp saw puzzle of human emotion passion, and you can
Speaker 4: understand why people behaved in the way they did at
Speaker 4: the time. And with the advantage of hindsight, we can
Speaker 4: do what we're doing Dan, which is analyze it and
Speaker 4: see what the real pieces of the puzzle were and
Speaker 4: put them together again. As I say, getting back to
Speaker 4: what I mentioned a few minutes ago, it's so hard
Speaker 4: for the offspring of Fred, Rayla and Erna and to
Speaker 4: contemplate what the truth is.
Speaker 3: Yes, let's use this as an opportunity to hear these
Speaker 3: messages in this investigation that you undertake for this book.
Speaker 3: I thought of you doing this and how you discover
Speaker 3: the true character.
Speaker 2: Of someone you thought you knew their character.
Speaker 4: Well, you think you think you know people, you think
Speaker 4: you're a judge of people, but really, do you really
Speaker 4: know what goes on in the once the bedroom door closes, if.
Speaker 5: You like, And we don't.
Speaker 4: I always say that it was my arrogance and Sally's
Speaker 4: arrogance that we thought we could evaluate the personality of
Speaker 4: this guy. We were one hundred and one percent wrong. Course,
Speaker 4: And I think it's an interesting point of debate. I'm
Speaker 4: sure there are people in your listening audience who have
Speaker 4: found themselves in a similar boat. Oh sorry about boat,
Speaker 4: but who find themselves in a similar situation believing somebody
Speaker 4: told them the truth and then discovering that it was
Speaker 4: not the truth, it was a mythical fiction to suit
Speaker 4: their personalities. And I think this was the case. And
Speaker 4: you know, I've evalue I've tried to evaluate my own mind.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's not important my own mind, but it
Speaker 4: does put me in the minds of the thousands of
Speaker 4: people that may be listening to you right now, who
Speaker 4: have had a similar set of circumstances, fortunately not to
Speaker 4: believe somebody who is their friend is a murderer, but
Speaker 4: certainly to discover that the person they thought they knew
Speaker 4: they never knew.
Speaker 3: Really, speaking of people not understanding or not believing the
Speaker 3: person that they really were, we talk about Bill Fairfield,
Speaker 3: who described himself as the best friend of Fred Rayler,
Speaker 3: who stuck with him right through to the trial, but
Speaker 3: then was a character witness, so he let other more
Speaker 3: experienced attorneys and he did have a good defense team
Speaker 3: to defend Fred Rayler. This person invested the money that
Speaker 3: Fred got despite this conviction, that over eight hundred thousand
Speaker 3: dollars was invested in things you write like cattle ranches,
Speaker 3: and that money grew and then interestingly again another example
Speaker 3: of his psychopathy was that he had sued his friend.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us about that?
Speaker 4: I mean, this is the I mean, this is talk
Speaker 4: about betrayal. Bill Fairfield was a good friend, a boating
Speaker 4: friend of a pal. Bill and his wife Donna were
Speaker 4: friends of Jean and they would go on boating trips
Speaker 4: and they would hang out together. And Bill was an
Speaker 4: expert civil lawyer, not a criminal lawyer. And Bill testified
Speaker 4: that it was he who told Fred Rayla to get
Speaker 4: all this insurance. They were going on a trip, and
Speaker 4: Bill said, he said they were going on a trip
Speaker 4: to unknown Mexican waters, and he suggested that Fred get
Speaker 4: this life insurance. And he testified thus, and then is
Speaker 4: stuck by Fred. When Fred was convicted, he turned Freend's
Speaker 4: insurance money into a small fortune. And then what happens.
Speaker 4: Fred turns around and sues his longtime ally, his friend,
Speaker 4: his confidante, for mismanagement of funds, and the cases thrown out.
Speaker 4: So Bill Fairfield did his best for his friend and
Speaker 4: then got kicked in the groin for doing it. And
Speaker 4: that kind of does indicate the personality of Frederick Rayler,
Speaker 4: who probably owes his life to Bill.
Speaker 5: And Bill is unfortunately no longer with us.
Speaker 4: And you know, it's another horrible piece of irony. And
Speaker 4: the other interesting thing is, can you believe that before
Speaker 4: the verdict came in, Bill Fairfield went to the insurance
Speaker 4: company and said, you have to pay my client is
Speaker 4: eight hundred on eight hundred thousand dollars life insurance. Otherwise
Speaker 4: when he is acquitted, we will sue the living daylights
Speaker 4: out of you, and the insurance company paid up before
Speaker 4: the verdict came in. Wow, And that was all thanks
Speaker 4: to Bill Fairfield's arduous efforts to get them to pay off.
Speaker 4: And then then with that money they bought all the
Speaker 4: ranch property. So it's it is little quirks. And I
Speaker 4: think Bill Fairfield, until the last days of his life,
Speaker 4: believed to some extent that his friend was innocent. But
Speaker 4: then what became somewhat disenchanted when Fred Rayler decided to
Speaker 4: sue his pal. So there you go, it's another quirk
Speaker 4: in this bizarre story.
Speaker 3: One last question about this. After all of this, what
Speaker 3: do you believe was the motive for the murder? Given
Speaker 3: all his property gains, what was the motive for murder
Speaker 3: in your mind?
Speaker 4: Well, I think fred Rayler, it appears, was living above
Speaker 4: his means. After all, he bought a spiffing expensive yacht
Speaker 4: called the Perseverance, and that cost a lot of money
Speaker 4: and Fred Rayler was not earning a lot of money
Speaker 4: as an engineer working at Point Magoo Naval Base. And
Speaker 4: Fred Rayler decided he needed some extra income to finance
Speaker 4: his lifestyle. And although it sounds bizarre, this was his
Speaker 4: method modus operandi to get extra money to get life insurance.
Speaker 4: I mean, you've got to delve into the mind of
Speaker 4: Fred Rayler, which we try and do a little bit,
Speaker 4: but to find out what makes him tick. And he's
Speaker 4: still ticking. And he's ticking in jail right now, where
Speaker 4: he's been for the last forty years, and his I say,
Speaker 4: long suffering children are trying still to get him out
Speaker 4: on parole for medical reasons and stuff like that. And
Speaker 4: one little extra kicker I discovered in the last year
Speaker 4: the Fred Rayler is suing the warden of the jail
Speaker 4: in California where he lives, and he's suing them because
Speaker 4: apparently he was in a wheelchair and was being wheeled
Speaker 4: back to his prison cell and the wheelchair fell in
Speaker 4: a hole or something like that, and Fred Rayler was
Speaker 4: tipped on his side and injured. And so Fred Rayler
Speaker 4: is suing the prison warden and the other residents employees
Speaker 4: of the jail for I'm not sure what, but he's
Speaker 4: suing them. So the beat goes on.
Speaker 3: You're right that he was interviewed on a podcast called
Speaker 3: Lost Hills or some podcast. What did he state on
Speaker 3: that podcast.
Speaker 4: Well, he did a terrific. There was a terrific podcast
Speaker 4: for Lost Hills, which and which. Again Fred Rayler wanted
Speaker 4: to try and prove that he was innocent after all
Speaker 4: these years and hope that maybe the podcast would get
Speaker 4: him out on parole. But I think I seem to recall,
Speaker 4: and it was a few years ago the podcaster concluded
Speaker 4: that Fred was not innocent. It came his efforts came
Speaker 4: to nothing. But Fred Rayler is is persistent, and probably
Speaker 4: to this very day, as he sits in the law
Speaker 4: library at the jail in California, he's trying to come
Speaker 4: up with some way to get out on parole with
Speaker 4: a little help from his from his daughter. So the
Speaker 4: beat goes on. It's not over yet, and Fred Rayler
Speaker 4: is still around and doing what he seems to do
Speaker 4: quite well, if you call being in jail for life
Speaker 4: doing quite well.
Speaker 2: Yes, success.
Speaker 3: I want to thank you so much for coming on
Speaker 3: and talking about your extraordinary book, The Inside Story of
Speaker 3: a Malible Murder, The Devil in My Friend. For those
Speaker 3: people that might want to find out further about this,
Speaker 3: can you tell us about your website and let's talk
Speaker 3: about your previous books, especially the new edition of the
Speaker 3: Beatles and Me on Tour.
Speaker 4: Well, this is a very different book, The Beatles and
Speaker 4: Me on Tour. You can get my books by going
Speaker 4: on to ivordavisbooks dot com. But the best way to
Speaker 4: get the book about Malibu, which is my latest, for
Speaker 4: our latest, it is the way probably to go on
Speaker 4: Amazon and order it that way. It seems like that
Speaker 4: it's the speediest way to do it.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: My Beatle Book, which also came out in the year
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, is my rehash if you like, a
Speaker 4: relook at my travelers with the Beatles, which was really
Speaker 4: fantastic experience. And then of course my books about Charles
Speaker 4: Manson worked about my personal experiences with Manson, the Manson
Speaker 4: family during the notorious murder, after the notorious murder spree
Speaker 4: that took the life of Sharon Tate, the beautiful actress
Speaker 4: who was the wife of Rome and Polanski, the famous director,
Speaker 4: and a lot of other innocent people. So unfortunately or fortunately,
Speaker 4: my life has been enmeshed in murder, mayhem, and music,
Speaker 4: which is.
Speaker 5: Not a bad combo.
Speaker 4: I must prefer the music element to the murder and
Speaker 4: the mayhem. But and my Beatle Book, by the way,
Speaker 4: is a fun book. It's me recapturing an era sixty
Speaker 4: years ago today, nineteen sixty four, when I traveled with
Speaker 4: the Beatles and was George Harrison's ghostwriter, and never knew
Speaker 4: that today, sixty years later, the Beatles would be bigger
Speaker 4: than ever. So it's a real mishmash of stuff. As
Speaker 4: I said, music, murder, medicine and me. You know, I'm
Speaker 4: continuing to enjoy life and continuing to enjoy talking about
Speaker 4: some of my work. I wish I didn't enjoy talking
Speaker 4: about the Mallible murders, but that's life, and we can't
Speaker 4: correct what's happened.
Speaker 5: I don't think.
Speaker 3: Yes, I want to thank you so much, mister Ivor
Speaker 3: Davis for coming on and talking about the inside story
Speaker 3: of a Mallible murder, the devil in my friend. Thank
Speaker 3: you so much for this interview, and you have a
Speaker 3: great evening and good night. Thank you, Dan, thank you