WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.080 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.839 written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every week, 4 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:25.800 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 5 00:00:25.879 --> 00:00:29.879 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 6 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:33.359 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 7 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:40.479 Good Evening. 8 00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:46.799 Award winning author and journalist Ivor Davis, author of Manson Exposed, 9 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:51.719 a Reporter's fifty year journey into madness and Murder, discusses 10 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:55.679 he and his wife Sally's investigation into their longtime friend 11 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:59.039 and neighbor when he is arrested for the murder of 12 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:04.000 his wife and stepson. Ivor and Sally Davis were horrified 13 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:07.200 when their Malibu neighbors, Verner Rayler, and her son Doug 14 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:12.040 died in a terrible boating accident. The nightmare only continued 15 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:16.400 when her husband, their friend Fred Rayler, was arrested and 16 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:21.640 then convicted for their murder. As investigative writers, they set 17 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:26.599 out hoping to find Railer innocent. Instead, they found a 18 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:31.400 viper's nest of deceit and murder. The book they were 19 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:35.359 featuring this evening is The Devil in My Friend, The 20 00:01:35.480 --> 00:01:39.840 Inside Story of a Malibu Murder with my special guests, 21 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:45.480 journalist and author Ivor Davis. Welcome to the program, and 22 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:49.400 thank you very much for this interview, mister Ivor Davis. 23 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:54.560 Thank you, Dan, thank you so much, and congratulations on 24 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:59.519 this book, The Devil in My Friend. Let's talk about that. 25 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:02.400 You write in the preface that for all of you, 26 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:05.920 and I include your wife, Sally, it all began on 27 00:02:06.040 --> 00:02:10.400 January third, nineteen eighty one, and you were sitting in 28 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:13.879 your home and you read in the local paper about 29 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:17.439 Verna Roller and her son Douglas, who had drowned the 30 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:20.199 day before in the water in the ocean that you 31 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.639 were familiar with. Tell us about what you read and 32 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:26.560 how you were involved in this story. 33 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:30.960 Well, when I woke up and I remember this, this 34 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:36.120 was a Sunday morning, my wife Sally screamed at me 35 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:41.360 and I rushed downstairs and she had the morning paper 36 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:45.479 in front of her and there on the front page 37 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:51.520 with this story about the death of Verna Rayla and 38 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:56.039 her young son Douglas, who I knew and Sally knew 39 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:59.960 so well because we'd grown up with them in Malibu, 40 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:04.680 which was a beautiful, beautiful community. By the beach in 41 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:09.000 southern California, the Idellic community. In this horror story happened 42 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:13.520 and we were just and we were just paralyzed what happened. 43 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:17.120 And then we discovered that what happened, according to the story, 44 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:23.360 was that Verner and her new husband Fred Raila and 45 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:27.599 her son Douglas, were out on a pleasure trip at 46 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:31.360 Santa Cruz Island, which is just literally you can look 47 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:34.080 out the window of my house and you can see 48 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:37.280 the islands just off the coast of Santa Barbara and 49 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:42.800 Ventura and Malible and we just were paralyzed, and of 50 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:47.919 course we went to the funeral. Then you know the reason, 51 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.840 the reason it was such a shock was number one, 52 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:55.240 Fred and Werner had been married for a very very 53 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:59.560 short period of time, and Douglas was their son. And 54 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:04.719 I knew Fred the bereave father, because he had come 55 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:06.599 to me when they got married and said to me, 56 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:10.719 I want to get close to my young son, who 57 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:14.000 was eight years of age at the time. You are 58 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:17.519 the soccer coach of our team in Malibu, the Malibu Lions. 59 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:21.279 Can I be your assistant coach? Well, I mean, what 60 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:25.120 kind of story? I mean, it was just a heartbreaker, 61 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:28.600 I said, of course. And Fred was my assistant coach. 62 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:33.240 My son was Gideon, was the same age as as Douglas, exactly, 63 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:37.079 and Fred was a terrific assistant coach, although he knew 64 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:41.199 nothing about soccer. So all of a sudden, the idyllic 65 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:44.639 life that we had been leading was turned upside down. 66 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:47.279 And then I must say. 67 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:50.560 After the morning and the funeral and stuff like that, 68 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:56.399 a few months later, Fred Railer was arrested for the 69 00:04:56.519 --> 00:05:00.480 murder of Douglas and the murder of Werner, and again 70 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:05.120 it was like another arrow to the heart, and I said, 71 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:07.639 something has got to be wrong here. It can't be true. 72 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:11.040 This is a poor guy who loses his wife and 73 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:15.720 stepson soon after they be married, and now he's arrested 74 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:20.000 for murder. And what actually happened was, and I'll get 75 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:25.319 to the quick, was that I didn't realize this at 76 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:28.199 the time. All I knew that Fred's first wife had died, 77 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:32.600 but apparently she had died. His first wife had died 78 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:38.680 also of drowning. And so somebody called the cops, the 79 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:42.279 Santa Barbara Police Department because the island was in their jurisdiction, 80 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:48.120 and said, losing one wife by drowning is a terrible tragedy. 81 00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:52.439 Losing two wives is more than a tragedy. You've got 82 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:55.639 to investigate. And they did and the bottom line was 83 00:05:55.680 --> 00:06:00.560 it they discovered that Fred Rayla had eight that eight 84 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:06.319 hundred thousand dollars insurance on his young step son and 85 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:08.480 his new wife. 86 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:13.519 Now let's go back to how everything is discovered, and 87 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:17.079 in doing this, tell us about the book project that 88 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:20.600 you discussed with Fred and what came a bit in 89 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:21.800 how you proceeded. 90 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:27.720 Initially, Well, Sally and I have been writers all our lives, 91 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:32.399 and so we were intrigued by this. Somebody who we'd been, 92 00:06:32.600 --> 00:06:36.399 who we felt was innocent, was wrongly accused of a terrible, 93 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:41.279 terrible murder. And so we spoke to Fred and said, 94 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:43.360 you know, I mean to be honest with you, We 95 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.160 hadn't thought of a book right at the beginning. But 96 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:51.279 then we ended up going to the murder trial, which 97 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:56.040 took place in Santa Barbara, California, and we sat through 98 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:58.839 the trial and we thought, well, Fred Rayler is going 99 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:02.079 to get acquitted. He's going to get acquitted. And we 100 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:05.399 watched the evidence for about eight or nine months every day, 101 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:11.639 and guess what happened they found him guilty. Well, we thought, 102 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:16.399 our friend has been wrongly accused and wrongly convicted. We 103 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:20.399 have got to do something, and so we embarked on 104 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:26.079 an independent investigation into Fred's life and we were very 105 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:30.319 friendly with Fred. Sally and I, my own son and daughter, 106 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:34.480 visited Fred at the horrible falsehome prison where he was. 107 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:40.560 He'd been sentenced to life without possibility of parole, and 108 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:44.519 that's instead of the death penalty in California. So we 109 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:49.360 visited him, and then at that stage, Fred Rayler said, 110 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:53.000 why don't you write a book? Because what have I 111 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:56.360 got to lose? And so off we went on our 112 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:02.240 journey of discovery and guess what. We discovered that Fred 113 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:08.519 Rayler was not only guilty we felt of the murderer 114 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:13.920 of Werner and Douglas, but he probably murdered his first wife, Jean, 115 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:18.240 a beautiful airline stewardess, and got away with it. So 116 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:22.519 we were confronted by this. I went to see him 117 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:25.600 in falsehom prison. I said, Fred, we went back to 118 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:28.279 your hometown and we spoke to all the people you mentioned, 119 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:33.000 and they weren't all flattering. And Fred said, I want 120 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:37.639 you to give me every single transcript of your interview 121 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:40.799 and I will answer it. And I said, Fred, I 122 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:44.840 can't do that because a lot of these people wouldn't 123 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:49.440 speak to me in Richmond, Indiana, your hometown, because they 124 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:52.159 thought that we were in the private investigators trying to 125 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.080 get you out of prison, and so. 126 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:57.279 I can't do that. And from that moment on, I never. 127 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:02.039 Ever spoke to Fred Rayler again, and we pursued the book. 128 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:06.559 We actually wrote the book many years ago. But I 129 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:10.519 don't want to get too complex here, Dan, but basically 130 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.559 what happened was Fred was able to block the book 131 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:18.240 because he threatened to soothe them. And at that time 132 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:23.200 there was another famous murder going on called Jeffrey McDonald, 133 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:27.759 the Green Beret captain who was tied up with McGinnis 134 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:31.120 and I've forgotten what McGinnis's first name is. And McGinnis 135 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:34.039 wrote a book called Fatal Vision about this, about this 136 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:37.360 guy and the trial in which in which Jeffrey McDonald 137 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:42.200 sued the author McGinnis was on. It lasted nine months, 138 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:44.840 it cost eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars, a lot 139 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:48.279 of money then, and it was undissolved. So my publisher 140 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:53.320 chickened out. Fast forward forty years. 141 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:54.200 And my book is out. 142 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.679 Wow, it was a long. 143 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:02.440 Unwinding I'm sorry about but I'm sure if you go ahead, 144 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:02.960 go ahead. 145 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:06.120 Down, Well, let's go back, because this is what you 146 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:09.240 do in the book. You go back to his childhood, 147 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:14.720 Fred Rayler's childhood in Centerville, Indiana. You say his hometown 148 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:18.240 was Richmond, but he was an inland boy. So anyway, 149 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:22.799 you take us to Santa Barbara and January sixth, So 150 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:27.519 soon after Fred is discovered with Verna and Douglas are dead, 151 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:32.240 and a deputy Larry Gillespie, thirty six year old, he's 152 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:36.000 a corner's assistant with the Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department, and 153 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:40.840 he gets a call from missus Candy Hinman of Malibu. 154 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:44.120 Now what she has to say and what does Larry 155 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.240 Gillespie do other than taking notes? 156 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:48.559 Well, you know, the. 157 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.120 Police always get odd calls here and there, and they 158 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:54.080 pay attention to it because this is what they have 159 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:58.120 to do. So Larry Gillespie gets his call from Candy Hinman, 160 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:02.759 who is a mother and a friend of Verna Rayler 161 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:07.720 and also a friend of Jean Railer, the first wife, 162 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:15.519 and Candy offers a devastating two liner. She says this 163 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:21.559 fred Rayler loses his first wife in a drowning accident 164 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.600 is a terrible tragedy, but to lose a second wife 165 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:32.039 and stepson in a drowning accident needs to be looked into. 166 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:37.639 It stinks, and the Gillespie, who the investigator, looks into it, 167 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:43.399 and then the whole investigation begins and interviews with Fred 168 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:48.639 Rayler and leading to Fred's arrest. When the police discover 169 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:53.720 that Fred Rayler has benefited to the tune of eight 170 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:57.360 hundred thousand dollars. An eight hundred thousand dollars in the 171 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:02.279 eighties is worth probably three four million dollars today. There's 172 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:04.919 still a lot of money. And the cops are very 173 00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:09.759 suspicious because why would Fred Rayler take a sixty thousand 174 00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:13.639 dollars life insurance policy on an eight year old boy. 175 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:17.799 The case begins to smell. The cops think they've got 176 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:21.240 something going, and they do end up arresting. 177 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:25.679 Him, and the trout unfolds in Santa Barbara. 178 00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.720 Now, what are some of the things that they employ 179 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:33.840 to be able to as police do narrow a defendant 180 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:38.360 to a story and then later requestioning them once he's 181 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:42.720 in a certain position with that story. Tell us what 182 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:46.840 fred puts himself in that corner. But also his behavior 183 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:48.480 during the interrogation. 184 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:53.159 Well, first of all, Fred Rayler plays the innocent man. 185 00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:56.759 First of all, the cops visit him two or three times, 186 00:12:57.200 --> 00:13:00.240 and he's very sociable and to be honest with you, 187 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:04.000 Fred Rayler is one of these guys, it turns out, 188 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:09.039 who is I mean, a sociopath or the kind of 189 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:11.120 guy who thinks he can sit down with you and 190 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:15.720 I and he can explain anything away and if he 191 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:19.679 talks about it, you and I will believe every single word. 192 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:22.840 Of course, the cops don't believe every single word for 193 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:27.360 the reasons I've explained heavy insurance why is that? And 194 00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:29.879 they kind of get to know Fred Rayler. They come 195 00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:32.399 and see him two or three times. When they come 196 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.799 and see him in Malibu, they are impressed by the 197 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:40.159 fact that this is a bereaving husband who is looking 198 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:46.120 after his two is young children, his daughters, and it 199 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:49.159 takes him a bit of time to realize that that 200 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:53.279 this is more than it appears. And Fred Rayler of 201 00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:56.360 course thinks he can talk his way out of anything, 202 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:59.440 but he doesn't talk his way out of this because, 203 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:03.399 of course he arrested and he's charged and he's convicted, 204 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:05.600 and I don't want to spoil the story, but he 205 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:09.200 is convicted, as you as you know, and that's that's 206 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:11.759 why it's such an interesting story, and that's why when 207 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:14.799 we came into it, we thought we could turn the 208 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:17.000 tables and get him unconvicted. 209 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:19.240 But it didn't happen. 210 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.159 As you write in this book, you embark on this investigation, 211 00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:29.399 so you look into his first wife, Jean's suspicious death, 212 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:31.799 her drowning death, and what do you find. 213 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:37.600 We find that it is very, very suspicious. But the 214 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.840 amazing thing is you've got to realize this Dan that 215 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:44.639 we had attended every day in the in the courthouse, 216 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:50.399 and the amazing thing was the jury that was listening 217 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:55.399 to the case heard many days of testimony about the 218 00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:00.799 suspicious death of Fred's first wife, and then, believe it 219 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:04.399 or not, the same jury were told by the judge 220 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.080 the death of Fred Brayler's first wife has nothing whatsoever 221 00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:12.360 to do with the death of his second wife. So 222 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:17.120 you are to forget what you've heard, tear up your notes, 223 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:21.000 and let's get on with the case of this murder 224 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:25.480 of the second wife and the step son. So you know, psychologically, 225 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:28.279 the jury have heard this testimony about he may have 226 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:32.559 killed his first wife, but they are asked to forget it. 227 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:36.919 Come on, and that you know, in retrospect, Dan, isn't 228 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:38.240 that a hard thing to forget? 229 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:40.120 That's right. 230 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:44.159 You also cite that this became a battle of experts, 231 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:48.039 as many of these high profile trials do. But the 232 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:51.879 defense had employed two of the best and most noted 233 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.639 pathologists in the world, if not especially in the US, 234 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.519 and so that testimony was very compelling, at least in 235 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.559 its cart, wasn't it. 236 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:04.480 It was very compelling testimony. But let me tell you, 237 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.320 when you are in the jury, and you are you know, 238 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:14.879 a common a typical juror, this testimony about, well, was 239 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:21.559 their damage to Douglas's head from from a deliberate injury, 240 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:25.879 And that we listened to days and days and days 241 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:32.360 of technological evidence from so called experts. There was bruising 242 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:36.559 to Douglas's head, There was bruising to Werner's head. No, 243 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:40.639 there wasn't. Yes, there was. And by the time you know, 244 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:45.200 the third week of expert testimony came around, the jury 245 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:50.000 were bamboozled. And I'm not surprised because I was bamboozled, 246 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:52.799 and so was everybody else in the court, and yet 247 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:57.399 I think, you know, without jumping the gun. Then I 248 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:00.759 think part of the problem and why Fred Rayler was 249 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:08.839 convicted was when he decided, as many defendants do, to testify. 250 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:09.599 In his own defense. 251 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:13.160 And that was not a good idea, but he did, 252 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:15.440 and he got up there and he cried and he 253 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:20.880 told the story. But the jury were not impressed with him. 254 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:25.880 Later on, the jurors said he was cold, he was calculating, 255 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:29.640 and he made a mistake. Because, as you may know, 256 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:31.240 and I don't know what it's like in the rest 257 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:36.279 of the world, a defendant does not have to testify 258 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:42.079 in his own defense. However, jurors sometimes feel, and I 259 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.559 don't know what your experience has been, Dan, and you're 260 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:50.720 widely experienced, duras feel that what this guy is trying 261 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:54.200 to hide something? Why doesn't he tell us why he 262 00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:58.240 is innocent? And of course a defendant doesn't have to 263 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:01.519 do that. But Fred decided he was going to get 264 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:06.680 up He testified for many, many days. The district attorney 265 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:12.039 Stanley Roden had the opportunity to Truss examine him, and 266 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:15.960 that was a very hot event and they sort of 267 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:19.279 hated each other. But that made made the the the 268 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:24.799 actual trial more like a kind of a play, a 269 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:28.559 high drama. What was that great film with Gregory Pekin 270 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:32.400 of the old days? Oh gosh, I've forgotten about some 271 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.319 of the great trials. And that's part of the I 272 00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:39.359 want say, the fun as part of the entertainment. When 273 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:44.000 when a good prosecutor goes up against an accused defendant 274 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:48.279 and it's it's it's fisticuffs verbally. 275 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.200 All the way. 276 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:54.480 Let's Jesus as an opportunity to stop to hear these messages. Now, 277 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:59.000 what we haven't talked about for our audience is Fred's background. 278 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:03.200 The the thing that makes the prosecutor part of his 279 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:05.839 case is that he can't believe that this person with 280 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:10.960 this incredible background could have this incredible misfortune and screw 281 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.960 up and which resulted in the death of his wife, 282 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:18.599 Verna and his son or her son, Douglas. So tell 283 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:23.160 us what his official story is when he's rescued by 284 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.640 this boat and what he says in terms of how 285 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:28.839 Verna and Douglas came to their deaths. 286 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:36.480 So what happens is this is an idyllic day. Fred 287 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:41.079 in his new yacht is showing off the new yacht 288 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.359 to his parents who've come from the Midwest, and his 289 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:49.359 brother and his sister in law, and they're all out 290 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:53.279 in the yacht when Fred says, I'm going to We're 291 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:55.920 going to go out and take some pictures of an 292 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.359 area of the island called bird Rock, which is basically 293 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:05.240 a beautiful rock covered in bird poop. So Fred goes 294 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:10.559 out with Douglas and their new beagle puppy and Werner 295 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:16.359 in a little rubber dingy dory to take some pictures. 296 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:21.160 And while Fred is taking the pictures, according to him, 297 00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:29.240 the dog jumps at some seagulls, the dory overturns. Fred 298 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:34.920 is trapped by his camera strap underneath the dory and 299 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:39.599 when he finally loosens the camera strap and comes up, 300 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:45.759 he discovers his wife and his stepson floating on their 301 00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:50.440 face in this little remote pocket of the island and 302 00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:54.960 grabs them. I mean, this is an incredible scene. He 303 00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.799 grabs Werner in one hand, Douglas in the other hand. 304 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:04.200 He puts the beagle puppy on his head, but he's 305 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:08.920 unable to push them onto safety and he and when 306 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:13.559 he is rescued, Fred Rayler has this the dog, the wife, 307 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:19.119 the step son, and he's pulled aboard, and they try 308 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:23.279 and the rescuers who see him screaming for help, give 309 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:28.079 him mouth to mouth, and unfortunately, by the time the 310 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:32.160 Coastguard gets there, they take they take Douglas and Verna 311 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:37.680 in and they're both dead. Fred has survived this terrible ordeal, 312 00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:42.000 and so has the dog. The dog has been pushed 313 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:47.200 onto the island to say to safety. So it sounds 314 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:51.079 like an awful tragedy, and it is. But they then 315 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:53.160 you look at it and you say, well, Fred Rayler 316 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:58.880 grew up in the ocean. Fred Rayler was a powerful swimmer. 317 00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:05.000 Fred Rayler laid under sea cables for the US Navy. 318 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:09.799 Fred rayler Is second home is in the water. Why 319 00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:13.319 couldn't a guy like that save his wife and stepson. 320 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:17.680 But again it's a conflict, I mean, his story versus 321 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.319 what really happened. 322 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:20.240 And so. 323 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:23.720 During the trial we hear all this, and we hear 324 00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:27.079 and we think, those of us who are in sympathy 325 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:30.759 with Fred, say, wh my god, it's a terrible tragedy. 326 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.960 Number one wife died in the swimming pool and number 327 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:38.720 two wife dies in the ocean with her son. So 328 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:43.839 it adds up to a bizarre kind of scenario. But 329 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:48.440 the bottom line is, and this is really important, when 330 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:51.720 we go back to his hometown, we discover that when 331 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:57.599 Fred Rayler and his family have terrible accidents their car burns, 332 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:02.240 a boat, they have burnt, a guest house they have burned, 333 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:06.039 and what happens each time they claim on the insurance 334 00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:11.000 and they get the money. And then my investigation with Sally, 335 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:15.160 as soon as I saw that, the hairs on my 336 00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:20.799 neck kind of stood up because fred Rayler family had 337 00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:24.000 claimed on all those A burnt car, a burnt a 338 00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:28.240 burnt guest house, a burnt something else, and they got insurance. 339 00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:31.880 And Fred Rayler came to California and guess what His 340 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:37.240 car burned, his guesthouse burned, and there were other similarities 341 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:41.160 and you couldn't And the moment moment I saw that, 342 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:44.079 as I said, the hairs of my neck stood up, 343 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:47.279 and I said to my wife Sally, this is bizarre. 344 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:50.559 I mean a man, a man can be unlucky, but 345 00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:53.759 this guy is unlucky. 346 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.960 Well quab ruperly. 347 00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:58.559 And then that's when I realized that this was a 348 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:02.359 racket and the Fred rail had been making money as 349 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:07.160 his family did by claiming insurance money and getting the 350 00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:11.359 money and the inanimate objects like guesthouses and cars and 351 00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:17.680 boats led to insurance claims on real human beings, and 352 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:21.160 that was the moment I realized that he was guilty. 353 00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.519 You talk about the charges that he was convicted for, 354 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.400 and one of moe was with murder for profit. So 355 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:33.839 you talk about when you investigate the character of Fred 356 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:37.960 Railer and you speak to other people that were friends 357 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.400 of Jean, and how she feared for her life and 358 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:44.200 was trying was on the verge of getting a divorce. 359 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:47.839 Tell us a little bit more about this divorce and 360 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:52.319 what Thread supposedly agreed to and what Jean believed in 361 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:52.759 her heart. 362 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:57.920 The investigation that we did, and we spoke to her family, 363 00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:01.240 We spoke to her friends in the who were airline, 364 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:07.200 airline stewardesses and people like that. They said Jane was very, 365 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:11.640 very unhappy in her marriage with Fred, and she was 366 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:17.599 about to divorce him. But Fred Rayler and his family said, 367 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:21.720 we have never had a divorce in our family, and 368 00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:23.960 we're not going to have a divorce in our family. 369 00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:30.279 And so rather than face the ignomy of a divorce, 370 00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:34.960 Fred obviously and in course he wasn't accused of and 371 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:41.200 he wasn't convicted of decided that he would maybe eradicate 372 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:44.759 his first wife. Of course, again I say that, but 373 00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:47.359 he was never found guilty of killing his first wife, 374 00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:51.319 although there was so much suspicion. So Jean Rayler was 375 00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:54.279 hoping to get out of her marriage to Fred Rayler. 376 00:25:54.960 --> 00:26:00.680 She didn't because she died first and her romantic notions 377 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:05.480 which were a little bit overblown from what I discovered. 378 00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:07.880 You know, Fred brainer was not going to give his 379 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.720 wife a divorce, and so she ended up dying in 380 00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:13.839 the backyard swimming pool. 381 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:20.559 In your investigation, you also found out about Berna as well, 382 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:25.200 and her feelings and her background and how she came 383 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:29.559 to be involved with Red and her past with her 384 00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:30.920 own husband, Bill Johnson. 385 00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:36.279 Yes, again, it's like a jigsaw puzzle, you put it 386 00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:42.160 all together. We knew that Werner Rayla was a widow 387 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:47.240 because her husband, Bill had died in a terrible accident 388 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:50.920 in Los Angeles. He was in the building department and 389 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:54.400 he was a builder, and he apparently fell off the 390 00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:58.400 roof of a high rise building. However, it turned out 391 00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:03.799 that her marriage to her first husband was also tinged 392 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:08.319 with tragedy because Bill was a severe depressant. He had 393 00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:12.880 severe depression problems, and apparently he had jumped off the 394 00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:16.359 roof of the building and killed himself. But of course 395 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:20.519 Bernard didn't want to say it was suicide because the 396 00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:25.079 suicide would have reflected a rejection of their marriage, so 397 00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:27.960 she said it was an accident. But that then we 398 00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:31.079 discovered that it wasn't an accident. So here you had 399 00:27:31.119 --> 00:27:36.480 this needy, beautiful young widow and Fred who was a 400 00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:41.440 very handsome young widower, and they came together in Malibu, 401 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:44.839