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<v Speaker 1>What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. We're

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<v Speaker 1>getting some new information about Brian Cohberger and how he

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<v Speaker 1>was arrested in twenty and fourteen. Now, the arrest in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty fourteen wasn't for anything violent. He was arrested in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty fourteen for stealing a cell phone from his sister,

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<v Speaker 1>and according to this report, it was his father who

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<v Speaker 1>turned him in. Now, the reason we didn't know about

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<v Speaker 1>this previously is because his record was expunged under a

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<v Speaker 1>program that's offered in the state of Pennsylvania. So let's

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<v Speaker 1>dive into this article from ABC News and let's get

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<v Speaker 1>caught up. Headline. Idaho college killing suspect was first arrested

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty fourteen, record show. Colberger's father reported the incident

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<v Speaker 1>to police. Record show this article was authored by Cana Whitworth,

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<v Speaker 1>Josh Margolin, and Sasha Peasanik. Nine years before he was

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<v Speaker 1>accused of killing four college students in Idaho, Brian Colberger

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<v Speaker 1>was arrested in his native Pennsylvania and charged with misdemeanor

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<v Speaker 1>theft for allegedly stealing his sister's iPhone, according to records

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<v Speaker 1>reviewed by ABC News, When You're on drugs You'll do

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<v Speaker 1>some wild shit. You'll steal from your sister, you'll steal

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<v Speaker 1>from your grandmother, your best friend, It does not matter.

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<v Speaker 1>It was Coburger's father, Michael, who reported the incident to police,

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<v Speaker 1>according to court records. According to the records, Michael Coberger

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<v Speaker 1>told law enforcement Brian had warned him not to do

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<v Speaker 1>anything stupid after learning his son had taken the phone,

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<v Speaker 1>adding that his son had struggled with drug addiction. Don't

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<v Speaker 1>do anything stupid. Sounds like a threat to me. Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Coberger's earlier run in with the law, as described in

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<v Speaker 1>these records, is only now coming to light as he

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<v Speaker 1>prepares to defend himself against charges he killed four University

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<v Speaker 1>of Idaho students last fall. According to the records, Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Kohberger was nineteen years old when he was arrested for

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<v Speaker 1>the alleged theft in twenty fourteen. He served no jail time,

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<v Speaker 1>according to officials, there is now no public record of

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<v Speaker 1>that arrest or the outcome of the case. So nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>years old and he's out here, still still in his

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<v Speaker 1>sister's cell phone. Not exactly a solid mark in the

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<v Speaker 1>category of character building. Monroe County, Pennsylvania, offers first time

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<v Speaker 1>offenders the opportunity to enter into a pre trial program

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<v Speaker 1>called Accelerated Rehabilitative Disposition, which allows for charges to be

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<v Speaker 1>dropped and the record to be expunged once the accused

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<v Speaker 1>successfully completes probation. I think that's a pretty good program. Honestly,

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<v Speaker 1>as long as we're not talking about violent offenders here,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that getting your record exploded is a good thing,

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<v Speaker 1>and it helps society as long as you're somebody who's

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<v Speaker 1>looking to change. If not, well, it doesn't matter because

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<v Speaker 1>you're going to get another charge eventually and your ass

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<v Speaker 1>is gonna end up in jail. But for people who

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<v Speaker 1>just make one mistake, I think a program like this

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<v Speaker 1>is a solid idea, especially for those who aren't committing

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<v Speaker 1>violent crimes. Now, when we start talking about violent crime,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a different story. If you're going to go out

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<v Speaker 1>there and cause all kinds of chaos and be a

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<v Speaker 1>violent scumbag, well you deserve to sit behind bars. Martin

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<v Speaker 1>Sodo Diaz, an attorney representing the Coburger family, declined to

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<v Speaker 1>comment on the record describing the earlier arrest. The District

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney's office in Monroe County also had no comment, and

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<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't expect the county to have any comment whatsoever,

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<v Speaker 1>especially because this record was expunged, so they're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to really comment on anything like that besides to say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>go look at the official record. In a court filing Monday,

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<v Speaker 1>Idaho prosecutor Is announced they intend to seek the death

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<v Speaker 1>penalty against Brian Kolberger for the alleged murders. It remains

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<v Speaker 1>to be seen whether the alleged incident in twenty fourteen

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<v Speaker 1>and his previous alleged history with substance abuse will have

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<v Speaker 1>any bearing or offer any clues in relation to what

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<v Speaker 1>happened in the early morning hours of November thirteenth, twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty two, when four college students Ethan Chapin, Madison Mogan,

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<v Speaker 1>Xana Kernodle, and Kaylee Gonsalvez were stabbed to death at

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<v Speaker 1>an off campus home on King Road in Moscow, Idaho. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think it'll have any direct bearing, but I

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<v Speaker 1>think it goes towards the character of the person who's

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<v Speaker 1>in question here. What kind of dirtbag steals from their sister. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, stealing from your sister doesn't make you a murderer,

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<v Speaker 1>But when you're building a profile of somebody, you have

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<v Speaker 1>to go back to their teenage years and take a

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<v Speaker 1>look at how they were behaving and then work from there.

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<v Speaker 1>And now that this record is becoming available, it certainly

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<v Speaker 1>adds to the fact that Brian Colberger was a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a degenerate, right, A source briefed on the case

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<v Speaker 1>told ABC News the alleged twenty fourteen incident is now

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<v Speaker 1>subject of inquiry for prosecutors in Idaho as they prepare

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<v Speaker 1>for an impending capital trial that could start as early

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<v Speaker 1>as October. And while that's when the trial is set

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<v Speaker 1>to kick off, I have my doubts that we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to see this thing kick off on time. You want

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<v Speaker 1>to get all the puzzle pieces figured out, even as

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<v Speaker 1>you keep finding new pieces, said ABC News Law enforcement

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<v Speaker 1>contributor Richard Frankel, a retired senior FBI official and former

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<v Speaker 1>prosecutor in the New York City suburb of Suffolk County.

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<v Speaker 1>You're working to figure out how they all fit together,

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<v Speaker 1>Frankel said, speaking generally on investigative procedure for building a case.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's that's what it is. It's a gigantic puzzle.

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<v Speaker 1>As an investigator, you start at the corners and you

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<v Speaker 1>build it piece by piece until an image begins to emerge.

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<v Speaker 1>And to do that effectively, you can't leave any stone unturned.

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<v Speaker 1>As an investigator, one that's a big jump to go

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<v Speaker 1>from an alleged non violent theft and from a family

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<v Speaker 1>member to being charged with multiple homicides, and two eight

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<v Speaker 1>years is a long time for nothing to happen, Frankel said,

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<v Speaker 1>So I would want to know, both as a prosecutor

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<v Speaker 1>and as an investigator, what he did in those years

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<v Speaker 1>in between. And I still think that's a pretty big

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<v Speaker 1>mystery what Brian Cohberger was up to all these years

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<v Speaker 1>before these murders happened. Now we've heard from some people

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<v Speaker 1>that knew him, some people that used to hang out

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<v Speaker 1>with them, But how many people really knew Brian Cohberger

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<v Speaker 1>and what he was up to or what sort of

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<v Speaker 1>thoughts he was really Harboring ABC News contributor Robert Boyd,

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<v Speaker 1>the retired chief of detectives for the New York City

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<v Speaker 1>Police Department, said what you look for now is was

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<v Speaker 1>this a foundational moment and was this a precursor for

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<v Speaker 1>things to come? You know, I think that's a bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a leap While this news is a little piece

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<v Speaker 1>of the puzzle, it certainly isn't some kind of groundbreaking

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<v Speaker 1>bombshell that tells us that Brian Coberger is capable of

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<v Speaker 1>committing for homicides. Just because you steal from your sister

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean you're capable of murdering people. It makes you

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<v Speaker 1>a scumbag, of course, but it doesn't mean that you're

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<v Speaker 1>capable of doing what we saw happen in Moscow. A

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<v Speaker 1>trial in the quadruple homicide has been set for October second,

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<v Speaker 1>though that could be delayed. Brian Coberger is due to

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<v Speaker 1>appear at the Layta County Courthouse on Tuesday afternoon for

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<v Speaker 1>another in an ongoing series of pre trial hearings connected

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<v Speaker 1>to the murder case. He is being held without bail

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<v Speaker 1>at the Layta County Jail. Brian Koberger's team is pushing

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<v Speaker 1>for a pause in his case while the defense and

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<v Speaker 1>prosecution argue over the scope of which grand jury materials

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<v Speaker 1>can or should be released. His lawyers are looking to

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<v Speaker 1>determine whether there are grounds to dismiss his indictment based

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<v Speaker 1>on the way the grand jury was selected according to

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<v Speaker 1>court documents, and nobody should be shocked by this loopholes

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<v Speaker 1>being exploited, loopholes being navigated. That's what happens when you

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<v Speaker 1>don't have the evidence on your side. But with that said,

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<v Speaker 1>if the prosecution did make any missteps, if they're stepping

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<v Speaker 1>on Brian Colberger's constitutional rights, then they need to be

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<v Speaker 1>dealt with as well. The defense is asking Idaho prosecutors

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<v Speaker 1>to disclose more information about their investigation, including more detail

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<v Speaker 1>on their forensic DNA analysis and information obtained from cell

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<v Speaker 1>phone records, according to court filings. The hearing Tuesday is

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<v Speaker 1>also expected to focus on Brian Coolberger's requests for more

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<v Speaker 1>time to decide whether to offer an alibi a trial,

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<v Speaker 1>as his attorneys say they are trying to navigate the

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<v Speaker 1>large and still ongoing discovery process. According to recent court filings,

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't that go directly in the face of what they're

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<v Speaker 1>saying that they're not getting enough discovery material. If you

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<v Speaker 1>have all these mountains of discovery to get through, then

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<v Speaker 1>what are you even talking about when you're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>infer that the prosecution is holding stuff back. Prosecutors said

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<v Speaker 1>they wouldn't object to a reasonable extension to decide so

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<v Speaker 1>long as any potential alibi is offered within the next month.

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<v Speaker 1>Back in Pennsylvania, on Saturday, February eighth, twenty fourteen, Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Colberger had recently exited a rehab center and rejoined the family,

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<v Speaker 1>his father told police, according to the records reviewed by

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<v Speaker 1>ABC News, home from rehab, Brian took his sister Melissa's iPhone,

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<v Speaker 1>which had an estimated value of four hundred dollars, Michael

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<v Speaker 1>Colberger told police, According to the records, authority said. According

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<v Speaker 1>to the records, Brian Colberger paid a friend twenty dollars

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<v Speaker 1>to pick him up and take him to a local mall,

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<v Speaker 1>where he sold the phone for two hundred dollars at

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<v Speaker 1>an automated Kiosk for used electronics. The records say Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Colberger was charged with misdemeanor theft and offer no further

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<v Speaker 1>explanation about what happened from there. With any case, we'd

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<v Speaker 1>always do a timeline, and on this case, I'd want

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<v Speaker 1>to do the timeline not just of the actual alleged

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<v Speaker 1>Tomiside incident, minute by minute, but also I would want

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<v Speaker 1>to do a behavioral timeline from his teens into his adulthood,

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<v Speaker 1>because I want to know who this guy is. Frankel said,

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<v Speaker 1>it all goes to the assessment of his character. It

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<v Speaker 1>may also help me when I interview other people about him,

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<v Speaker 1>because I may know what the right questions are going in.

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<v Speaker 1>Frankel added, and that's why it's important to go through

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<v Speaker 1>somebody's whole ass life and figure out what they were

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<v Speaker 1>up to. Now, it doesn't mean that because you were

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<v Speaker 1>on drugs or you stole from your sister that you're

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<v Speaker 1>a murderer. I just want to reiterate that. But when

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<v Speaker 1>you're building a profile of somebody, you have to add

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<v Speaker 1>all of it in so that you get a complete

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<v Speaker 1>and robust picture of who this person is. Brian Coberger,

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<v Speaker 1>now twenty eight, was indicted in Idaho last month and

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<v Speaker 1>charged with four counts of first degree murder and one

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<v Speaker 1>count of burglary. At his Idaho arraignment in late May,

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<v Speaker 1>Brian Colberger declined to offer a plea, so the judge

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<v Speaker 1>entered a not guilty plea on his behalf. Authorities alleged

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<v Speaker 1>that in the early morning hours of November thirteenth, Brian Cohberger,

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<v Speaker 1>a criminology PhD student at Washington State University, broke into

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<v Speaker 1>an off campus home and stabbed to death of four

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<v Speaker 1>students from the nearby University of Idaho. After a more

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<v Speaker 1>than six week hunt, according to police documents, police zeroed

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<v Speaker 1>in on Brian Colberger as a suspect, tracking is why

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<v Speaker 1>Honda a Lantra cell phone signal data and recovering what

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<v Speaker 1>authorities say was his DNA on a knife sheath found

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<v Speaker 1>next to one of the victim's bodies. And that's the

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<v Speaker 1>evidence that looms the largest against Brian Coberger. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>glue that binds all of this together. And if they

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<v Speaker 1>can find a way to challenge that DNA on the

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<v Speaker 1>knife sheath, then we have a whole different conversation. But

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<v Speaker 1>so far they haven't offered anything in the way of

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<v Speaker 1>evidence that that knife sheath didn't belong to Brian Coberger,

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<v Speaker 1>and they certainly didn't say in those court filings that

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<v Speaker 1>one of those three unknown male DNA profiles was the

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<v Speaker 1>real killer. The DNA evidence taken from the knife sheath

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<v Speaker 1>at the crime scene showed a statistical match with a

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<v Speaker 1>cheek swab taken directly from Brian Coberger after his arrest,

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<v Speaker 1>authority said in a recent filing, and that was what

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<v Speaker 1>the bukele swab was. When they went and arrested him.

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<v Speaker 1>They brought the cheek swab with them so they could

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<v Speaker 1>take that DNA swab right there at the scene. Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Coberger's attorneys pushed back on that analysis in several recent

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<v Speaker 1>court filings, casting doubt on whether that DNA evidence irrefutability

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<v Speaker 1>implicates their client, saying the statistical probability is not an

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<v Speaker 1>absolute and pointing to what they called a total lack

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<v Speaker 1>of DNA evidence from the victims in Coburger's home or car.

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<v Speaker 1>He was arrested on December thirtieth, twenty twenty two, at

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<v Speaker 1>his family's home in Pennsylvania, after driving cross country to

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<v Speaker 1>spend the holidays in all Brightsville. Some of Brian Colberger's

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<v Speaker 1>childhood acquaintances have recalled to ABC News that the quiet,

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<v Speaker 1>but funny person they knew began to alienate some of

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<v Speaker 1>his friends in high school as his drug habit developed.

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<v Speaker 1>Casey Arnes, who went to high school with Coburger, told

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<v Speaker 1>ABC News he would ask her for rides that she

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<v Speaker 1>later found out were to buy drugs. Brian used me to,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, drive him around to get heroin. Aren't said.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of people are like, well, why are you

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<v Speaker 1>still friends with them? After that, and I'm like, because

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<v Speaker 1>you gotta forgive him. I mean, you can't fault him

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<v Speaker 1>for being so sucked down this hole. And I did.

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<v Speaker 1>I did forgive him. So while this new revelation of

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<v Speaker 1>Brian Cohberger being arrested at nineteen years old for stealing

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<v Speaker 1>the iPod certainly isn't earth shattering, it is worth discussing

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<v Speaker 1>and adding to the catalog as we continue to build

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<v Speaker 1>a profile and see who Brian Colberger is and who

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<v Speaker 1>Brian Cohberger was. All Right, folks, that's gonna do it

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<v Speaker 1>for this one. All of the information that goes with

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<v Speaker 1>the episode can be found in the description box.