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<v Speaker 1>You know. I have the New York Times obituary up

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<v Speaker 1>for Val Kilmer and they have not referenced Tombstone as

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<v Speaker 1>one of the movies in the obituary. Is that wild?

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<v Speaker 1>How do you not do that? It seems like quite

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<v Speaker 1>the omission. Oh all right, A source indicates our next guest.

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<v Speaker 1>I was also unhappy about that. He is social media

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<v Speaker 1>influencer Bill orm on the program on a Wednesday, Bill,

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Wednesday, sir, how are you you know?

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<v Speaker 2>It took me a second to figure out where that

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<v Speaker 2>would have come from, because I was absolutely on fire

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<v Speaker 2>about this last night in the group chat. They did

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<v Speaker 2>update it after about thirty minutes, though, so it got

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<v Speaker 2>in there. But I was just on fire that you

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<v Speaker 2>could have a full obituary for Val Kilmer and not

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<v Speaker 2>include his iconic role as doc Holiday. So I'm glad

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<v Speaker 2>the New York Times came around on that. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>great to be here, Spez. Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thanks for the time. You should know that we

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<v Speaker 1>had one Christopher Camaraddie live in studio for an hour today,

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<v Speaker 1>so there were several old Bill Orang stories that were shared.

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<v Speaker 1>Just so you know, do I need to.

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<v Speaker 2>Go back and listen to it and make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>no secrets were spilled.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, Bill, I thought you were a daily listener live.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I'm mistaken.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, I was on deadline over here. I apologize.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, fair enough, Well, young man, you went viral recently,

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<v Speaker 1>and as I reference, you have certainly leaned into the

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<v Speaker 1>social media content sharing and no hatred. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>that I could do it. You're better at it than

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<v Speaker 1>I am. But tell our listeners what happened, how this

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<v Speaker 1>all went down. Let's go from there.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh it's funny. I was at the TAA tournament in

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<v Speaker 2>Seattle and sitting ended up being seated behind the TNT

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<v Speaker 2>broadcasting crew directly behind Jalen Rose for the Oregon Arizona game,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was seated next to a local television reporter

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<v Speaker 2>here in Portland, Brenda Green from Channel six, and she

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<v Speaker 2>happens to co host my podcast, which is the Oregonian

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<v Speaker 2>Sports Podcast. So we were joking around about using that

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<v Speaker 2>as an opportunity to to pimp the Oregonian Sports podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>So with about a minute left in the game, you

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<v Speaker 2>can see us having a very spirited conversation and good

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<v Speaker 2>lip readers would be able to tell that she and

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<v Speaker 2>I were both saying Oregonian Sports Podcast or Agonian Sports

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<v Speaker 2>podcast or Agonian Sports podcast. But there weren't a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of lip readers on the internet apparently, and they thought

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<v Speaker 2>something else was going on, and I got labeled a

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<v Speaker 2>riz god and basically basically became a hero of the

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<v Speaker 2>Internet for spitting game with a minute left in the

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<v Speaker 2>in the NCLA tournament, which was not what was going on.

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<v Speaker 2>In case my wife is listening, but yes, riz God, Bill,

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<v Speaker 2>thanks for putting it on TNT.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, Bill, Are you claiming to not be a

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<v Speaker 1>riz god? That was always my understanding?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I am. I am also a riz god. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just at that moment, wasn't the proof that people thought

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<v Speaker 2>it was okay?

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<v Speaker 1>Fair enough because I didn't catch it live. But whoever

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<v Speaker 1>set it out initially on Twitter, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>it's because I've interacted with you before I came across

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<v Speaker 1>my feed, and of course I promptly shared it with

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron and Chris and everybody, and they were already on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, you can't get anything by ck.

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<v Speaker 2>You know that you got some of the best reporters

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<v Speaker 2>in the country right there. In Salt Lake.

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<v Speaker 1>Did this Did this turn into tangible results for the pod?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we've only had one episode since, and so

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<v Speaker 2>we're still waiting for those metrics to come in on

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<v Speaker 2>whether or not it is, whether it's going to give

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<v Speaker 2>us the boost that we hoped. But I think that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, continued media appearances like this one where I'm

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<v Speaker 2>able to talk about the exposure for the Oregonian Sports

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<v Speaker 2>Podcast Oregonian Sports Podcast, it can only help. And I

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<v Speaker 2>should also plug my new video series, the ORUM Forum,

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<v Speaker 2>which you can find on Instagram and TikTok.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, you're leaned into the TikTok side of things, now, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>So we were talking about during the Cko, which you

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<v Speaker 1>listen to live and you'll listen to later later in

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<v Speaker 1>the replay, of course, how you have leaned into this

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<v Speaker 1>social media influencer content, you know kind of approach. What

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<v Speaker 1>motivated this? Now you I did not know this about

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<v Speaker 1>you until earlier, but Christopher shared with us that you

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<v Speaker 1>or a fan of the art. You are a musical fan.

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<v Speaker 1>You enjoy play. So maybe there's a thesbian that's late

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<v Speaker 1>that's been inside you this entire time.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I played Rusty Charlie and Guys and Dolls

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<v Speaker 2>get back into sech A High School in two thousand

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<v Speaker 2>and two. So I mean that was kind of the

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<v Speaker 2>beginning of my Well, that's actually not true. In nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety four, I played Winthrop Peru in The Music Man

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<v Speaker 2>and the Sega High School. I was in the first

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<v Speaker 2>grade that they needed a first grader to play Winthrop,

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<v Speaker 2>so I was up there on stage singing Gary Indiana

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<v Speaker 2>and playing the little Cornett. So yeah, I mean, really

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<v Speaker 2>it all began then. I think you could safely say,

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<v Speaker 2>but no, I mean, I think, you know, we're just

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<v Speaker 2>trying to embrace the moment, the media moment, and meeting

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<v Speaker 2>our readers and our consumers where they are. And they're

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<v Speaker 2>not just on the printed pages of the Oregone In anymore,

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<v Speaker 2>as much as sometimes we wish they were. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>they're online, They're on TikTok, they're on Instagram, and so

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<v Speaker 2>we go. We go where our readers are, where their

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<v Speaker 2>eyeballs are, and so we're trying to, you know, present

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<v Speaker 2>our information in a lot of different ways. I wrote

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<v Speaker 2>a column today that will be in print in The

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<v Speaker 2>Oregonian tomorrow, but it's online right now about Toomani Kamara

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<v Speaker 2>from the Blazers and his bid for an all defensive

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<v Speaker 2>team spot. And then we just made a video about

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<v Speaker 2>it too where I'm where I'm talking about it, and

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<v Speaker 2>we had a lot of fun with it that way.

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<v Speaker 2>So trying to reach trying to reach our you know,

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<v Speaker 2>our subscribers in different places. But it's it's fun for

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<v Speaker 2>me because I do like to have fun with, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>with with these sorts of things, and so it gives

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<v Speaker 2>me a different way to sort of flex those art

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<v Speaker 2>kid muscles. For sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Was that the character ron Howard played in the film

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<v Speaker 1>adaptation Winthrop cam I remember that correctly.

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<v Speaker 2>You absolutely are. When he was Ronnie Howard, he played uh,

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<v Speaker 2>he played Winthrop Peru singing Gary, Indiana and the Wells

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<v Speaker 2>Fargo Wagon with this q little lisp I had. I

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<v Speaker 2>had a lisp and everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, wait, do we have video evidence of this? Bill?

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<v Speaker 2>You know? I am just I am just uh uh,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm self destructive enough that I will I will try

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<v Speaker 2>to find the video and get it to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Please. Oh, I want nothing more. No, I'd appreciate that.

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<v Speaker 1>And look, I want to I want to be clear.

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<v Speaker 1>I respect the attempt, I respect the endeavor. I respect

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<v Speaker 1>the desire to be front facing. Is there any part

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<v Speaker 1>of it that you're not that comfortable with? I just

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that I've ever really been able to

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<v Speaker 1>lean into stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm concerned about my wardrobe spence. I don't have

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<v Speaker 2>a wardrobe budget from the Oregonians. So it's pretty soon

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna have to start repeating, repeating outfits on the

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<v Speaker 2>orum Forum. And I think that, you know, the viewers

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<v Speaker 2>are gonna are gonna are gonna object to that, and

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm gonna have to talk to my bosses about,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, increasing a bit of a wardrobe budget here

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<v Speaker 2>so I can keep it fresh, keep the fit fresh

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<v Speaker 2>for a viewers.

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<v Speaker 1>Is this all sports related? Is it all sports related

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<v Speaker 1>surrounding the great city of Portland in the area in

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<v Speaker 1>which you work now?

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<v Speaker 2>It is right now, but I mean, like I think

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<v Speaker 2>we'd be open to expanding it beyond sports really if

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<v Speaker 2>you if you ever wanted to submit a question or

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<v Speaker 2>have me address it. I mean, it is the Oorum Forum,

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<v Speaker 2>so we like to think of it as a bit

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<v Speaker 2>of a two way street. So last week we did

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<v Speaker 2>an episode where I was answered questions about the Blazers

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<v Speaker 2>Ducks baseball to Portland. I know that baseball issue, the

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<v Speaker 2>Portland versus Salt Lake thing has been has been going strong.

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<v Speaker 2>So try and tackle all those issues. But I mean

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<v Speaker 2>we could, we could expand beyond sports. I mean the

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<v Speaker 2>video I recorded today, I dropped a Sabrina Carpenter reference. Nice,

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<v Speaker 2>so be on the lookout for that.

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<v Speaker 1>I like it. I like it. Hey, what's been You know,

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<v Speaker 1>we we're pretty similar markets Salik and Portland. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>Portland a little bit, a little bit bigger when you

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<v Speaker 1>look at the rating system, I think we're twenty twenty eight,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty nine. Portland's like nineteen or twenty. But when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to NBA teams, great college teams, then MLS is well,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the desire to expand, we're we're pretty similar.

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<v Speaker 1>And we also find ourselves as strange bedfellows with two

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<v Speaker 1>NBA teams that are unserious about winning. What's the what's

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<v Speaker 1>the public support or lack thereof? With this Blazers team

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<v Speaker 1>that's still trying to find their way with a bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of young players. It's been rough down here trying to

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<v Speaker 1>cover the jazz. They just lost their sixtieth game. We've

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<v Speaker 1>never had that happen here, And you wrote here and

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<v Speaker 1>you were a medium member here for a while, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're spoiled because the Jazz more often than not, are

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<v Speaker 1>good and when they're not, they find their way back.

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<v Speaker 1>And they're not close to finding their way back. What

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<v Speaker 1>are the challenges trying to cover a team that's un

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<v Speaker 1>serious about competing.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, not just unseerious about competing, but in a town

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<v Speaker 2>where fans have, like you said, spoiled, but just been

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<v Speaker 2>really accustomed to having a team that you know, was

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<v Speaker 2>in the mix every year. And you know, the Jazz

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<v Speaker 2>obviously had a brief period where they were true championship contenders,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, for the most part, you could just

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<v Speaker 2>count on them to be in the mid of that

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<v Speaker 2>Western Conference race and win a playoff series and be

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<v Speaker 2>a tough out and that was, you know, something the

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<v Speaker 2>city could sort of be proud of and rally behind.

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<v Speaker 2>Portland it was the same. So these are two teams

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<v Speaker 2>and franchises and fan bases that are not accustomed to

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<v Speaker 2>the idea of tanking really historically, and so in Portland,

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's actually been a bit of a I

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<v Speaker 2>think there's been a bit of a reversal in public opinion.

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<v Speaker 2>If you'd ask me this in December or January, I

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<v Speaker 2>would have said, oh, fans are sick of the Blazers

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<v Speaker 2>tanking and all this, you know, you know, this this

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<v Speaker 2>uncertainty around who they're building around. I think people are

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<v Speaker 2>buying in on this Blazers team finally because they've gotten

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<v Speaker 2>so much better since January fifteenth. They had kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a rough March, but they're gonna finish the season with

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<v Speaker 2>like thirty five thirty six wins, and that's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>a disaster in the tanking realm, right, Like they've basically

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<v Speaker 2>taken themselves out of having you know, well you consider

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<v Speaker 2>to be a good shot at Cooper Flag. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>there's still a chance statistically that they could jump into

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<v Speaker 2>that top four, but you know, they have basically said, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>you're gonna embrace you know, letting our young guys play

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<v Speaker 2>and compete and win the games they can. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's I think it's brought people back. You know, you're

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<v Speaker 2>able to see the growth that Danny Advia has had

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<v Speaker 2>in his year in Portland. I mean, I mean, Spence,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to sit here and try to say

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<v Speaker 2>that like Denny Advia is a number one option going forward.

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<v Speaker 2>But he's been a really good player. I mean, he's

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he's scored thirty plus, you know, in several

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<v Speaker 2>straight games. He's you know, his numbers over the last

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<v Speaker 2>month are all star level. And again I'm not saying

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<v Speaker 2>that's who he is, you know, going forward, but you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's really asserted himself as a a really, really really

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<v Speaker 2>good player TOI Monti Kamara, like I mentioned, deserves to

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<v Speaker 2>be on an all defensive team. And so with Portland,

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<v Speaker 2>there's those signs of growth that show that they're kind

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<v Speaker 2>of pointing in the right direction. Now. Kind of taking

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<v Speaker 2>those steps before you really have an identity in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of like a star that you're building around can be

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<v Speaker 2>dangerous because that is how teams do end up kind

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<v Speaker 2>of getting stuck in the middle. So I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>the risk that the Blazers are facing. It's it's kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like, Okay, you've got some pieces here, but who's

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<v Speaker 2>your guy? They need to go find a guy, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's what you know, I think they need to do basically,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, this summer and if it's not going to

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<v Speaker 2>be in the draft and it's not going to be

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<v Speaker 2>a Cooper Flag Dylan Harper type guy. You know, what

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<v Speaker 2>can you go? Do you know? On the trademarket? And

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<v Speaker 2>I mean that's that's the challenge they face, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's interesting and I haven't had John for a minute,

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<v Speaker 1>so we can talk about things that I've talked about

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<v Speaker 1>with a lot of my NBA guests. And the most uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the most conservative guess here is eight teams

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<v Speaker 1>now in pro basketball have been unserious and it makes

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<v Speaker 1>the product so hard to watch. And yes, I'm operating

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<v Speaker 1>off the prism of watching our local team completely bail

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<v Speaker 1>on any sort of competitive nature. And the debate turns

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<v Speaker 1>into Bill like is this a problem for the league?

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<v Speaker 1>And I think the answer is yes, and ratings would

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<v Speaker 1>back this up. And then the other side of it

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<v Speaker 1>is they're about to enter a seventy two billion dollar

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<v Speaker 1>broadcast deal. So if you ask the league office, they're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna look at you and say, oh wait, what exactly

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<v Speaker 1>is our problem? Like look at our P and L statement,

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<v Speaker 1>I get it. Do you think this is do you

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<v Speaker 1>think this is an issue where the Wembin Yama injury

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<v Speaker 1>causes san Antonio to go on on tanking Philadelphia has

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<v Speaker 1>a pick that could go to OKC unless they lose

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of their game, so they bench everybody. They've

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<v Speaker 1>lost nine straight. So again conservative estimates, seven or eight teams.

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<v Speaker 1>More realistic, probably a third of the league unseerious about competing.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think this is a problem in pro basketball?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's a problem in the individual markets for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Like I don't think that, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>think I think that it is so taxing on a

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<v Speaker 2>fan base to have to punt on a season, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>one season after the next and hope for lottery on.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know that it is doing enough damage to

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<v Speaker 2>the league at large to get change affected. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think you know what you're talking about with you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the fatigue in Salt Lake and having never seen a

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<v Speaker 2>team like this, say, you know, same in Portland over

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<v Speaker 2>the last few years where they pulled the chair out

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<v Speaker 2>in the final, you know, after the All Star break

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<v Speaker 2>each of the last three years. I mean they you know,

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<v Speaker 2>had you know, stretches where they went like I want

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<v Speaker 2>to say, like three and twenty two over the last

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<v Speaker 2>two months of the season a couple of years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's just absolutely a miserable flog and it's

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<v Speaker 2>really hard to see the payoff when you're stuck in it.

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<v Speaker 2>So I do think that what you lose potentially is

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<v Speaker 2>you lise lose in market fans for teams that have

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<v Speaker 2>traditionally had really good fan support. And what these teams

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<v Speaker 2>bank on, you know, is that hey, when we start

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<v Speaker 2>winning again, those people are going to come back. And

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<v Speaker 2>you know, look, I mean Philadelphia went through one of

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<v Speaker 2>the most miserable tanking you know, stretches ever and once

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<v Speaker 2>they were you know, I know they're bad again, but

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<v Speaker 2>once they were, once they were kind of back in

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<v Speaker 2>the mix, I mean, Wealth Fargo Center was full. And

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, I think that I think that NBA

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<v Speaker 2>teams have kind of started to take that that fan

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<v Speaker 2>loyalty for granted that they will come back once you

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<v Speaker 2>put a winning product on the floor. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>that that is and I think that is unfortunate that

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<v Speaker 2>there isn't more consideration about the fan experience year to

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<v Speaker 2>year and those teams that are trying to get back

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<v Speaker 2>on top through the.

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<v Speaker 1>Lottery on the One of the things that motivated us

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<v Speaker 1>to book you is we had Howard Beck on the

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<v Speaker 1>show on Friday, and I asked Howard about the week

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<v Speaker 1>that occurred, you know, last week in the ecosystem of

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<v Speaker 1>media and NBA basketball where Lebron James went on Pat

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<v Speaker 1>McAfee's show and took shots at Stephen A. Smith after

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<v Speaker 1>Steven A. Smith was talking about Brownie on his show.

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<v Speaker 1>Then there's the clip of Lebron confronting Steven A at

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<v Speaker 1>a game. He even took a shot at Windhorse, which

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<v Speaker 1>was wild. Nobody has stood up for Lebron James and

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<v Speaker 1>the media ecosystem more than Brian Winhorse. So I was

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<v Speaker 1>asking Howard about it, and his reaction was predictably curmudgeon

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<v Speaker 1>and didn't want to discuss it, and said, my friend

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<v Speaker 1>Bill orm wrote a piece on his beef with Lebron,

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<v Speaker 1>which I remembered, but then I pulled up what you

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<v Speaker 1>had written. Have it in front of me. Now. So

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<v Speaker 1>before we get into this, Bill, I want you to

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<v Speaker 1>give our listeners some context about what happened with you

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<v Speaker 1>and Lebron, the actual incident that took place.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so the background there, Spence, was that in twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty two, the Lakers, you know, were kind of limping

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<v Speaker 2>toward another you know, unimpressive finish with Lebron James and

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<v Speaker 2>Anthony Davis. Lebron was getting restless at the All Star Game.

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<v Speaker 2>He actually told one of our reporters when I was

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<v Speaker 2>at the Athletic, Jason Lloyd, that you know, a return

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<v Speaker 2>to Cleveland wasn't out of the realm of possibility. And

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<v Speaker 2>so I had written something to the effect of, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>this is how Lebron does it. He's exerting pressure on

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<v Speaker 2>the franchise by kind of starting to drop breadcrumbs that

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<v Speaker 2>he could leave if things don't get better, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>as they don't start making moves. He did quoted less sneak,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, f them picks, you know, trade the picks

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<v Speaker 2>for help. Now, you know. It was just it was

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<v Speaker 2>clear what was happening, and so I wrote about that,

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<v Speaker 2>and Lebron or somebody close to Lebron felt like I had,

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<v Speaker 2>that it wasn't true. I think it was. I think

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<v Speaker 2>the problem really was that it was more true than

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<v Speaker 2>they wanted to admit. And so in a press conference,

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<v Speaker 2>Lebron had, you know, taken a shot at me and

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<v Speaker 2>said that, you know, nobody should listen to me. And

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<v Speaker 2>then the internet, of course did what it did what

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<v Speaker 2>it does, and you know, I got a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, mean mean comments and threats, including you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a Google Earth image of my home from somebody who said,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you better stop lying about Lebron. And so

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<v Speaker 2>I had a conversation with Lebron about it, and the

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<v Speaker 2>point I wanted to sort of you know, this was

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<v Speaker 2>after a press conference in the hallway at Staples Center,

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<v Speaker 2>and the point I wanted to kind of make to

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<v Speaker 2>him was, you know, when he uses his platform to

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<v Speaker 2>come after people like me, people like Brian Windhorst as well,

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<v Speaker 2>even though Brian has a bigger platform than I do,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he doesn't have security, you know, he has

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<v Speaker 2>you know, presumably you know, the same amount of security

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<v Speaker 2>as I have, which at the time was a ring

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<v Speaker 2>doorbell and a golden Retriever. And so I told Lebron,

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<v Speaker 2>when you use a platform to come after people like that,

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<v Speaker 2>even though we might be critical of you, when you

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<v Speaker 2>are as directly and vocally critical of us, it puts

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<v Speaker 2>a target on us in a way, you know, and

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<v Speaker 2>it gives people like kind of the the bad actors

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<v Speaker 2>permission to come out of the woodwork and think they're

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<v Speaker 2>acting on his behalf. And he really rejected that. So

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<v Speaker 2>we went back and forth, and as the conversation regressed,

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<v Speaker 2>he finally just said it, well, better buy a gun,

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<v Speaker 2>and that was sort of the uh, that was sort

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<v Speaker 2>of the acme of our of our encounter on that

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<v Speaker 2>particular issue.

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<v Speaker 1>What was your reaction, because I had a similar situation

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<v Speaker 1>I had, and you know, every time I tell the story,

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<v Speaker 1>I have to put the context on it. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>saying that all BYU fans are like this, but a

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<v Speaker 1>number of years ago I was working at a different

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<v Speaker 1>station where a coworker of mine broke a story. I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't even break the story, but a coworker of mine

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<v Speaker 1>broke a story about a guy named Dwayne Busby, who

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<v Speaker 1>was some BYU super fan, if I remember correctly, he

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<v Speaker 1>was on staff down there, and they found out it's

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<v Speaker 1>wild to say this with the current landscape of college athletics,

375
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<v Speaker 1>but he was providing some assistance to athletes and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>things that right now are a legal and B you

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<v Speaker 1>just don't even think about. But back this was like

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<v Speaker 1>two thy twelve or thirteen, a coworker of mine reported it,

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<v Speaker 1>and our entire station became the you know, the target

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<v Speaker 1>for a grip of BYU fans, and one of them

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<v Speaker 1>did the same thing sent a picture of my house

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<v Speaker 1>to my feed with a threatening message, and that was

383
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<v Speaker 1>the first time I went, oh, my gosh, okay, this

384
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<v Speaker 1>is It's no longer sending me pictures of certain things

385
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<v Speaker 1>or making fun of me for mistakes I made when

386
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<v Speaker 1>I was younger, Like, this is real, this is personal.

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<v Speaker 1>That's where I live, that's where I'm at right now.

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<v Speaker 1>It was one of the most disconcerting, uncomfortable things that

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<v Speaker 1>ever happened to me. What was your reaction and your

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<v Speaker 1>wife's reaction when that message spilled in.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I had maybe I maybe I had a

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<v Speaker 2>detachment from it, just because I had at the time

393
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<v Speaker 2>was spending so much time on social media and Twitter,

394
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<v Speaker 2>and I kind of rolled my eyes and a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the stuff that happens there, even something as personal

396
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<v Speaker 2>as that. But my wife was really was really frightened,

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<v Speaker 2>and just the idea, you know, let me listen to me.

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<v Speaker 2>We had young children, you know, she you know, I

399
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.960
<v Speaker 2>was traveling a lot for work, all those things, and

400
00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:26.359
<v Speaker 2>the idea that somebody had gone to that level of

401
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:29.079
<v Speaker 2>effort to spook us at that point, you don't know,

402
00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:33.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe you assume that it's not a real threat,

403
00:19:34.359 --> 00:19:35.920
<v Speaker 2>but that's not something that's something you can only be

404
00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:40.079
<v Speaker 2>wrong about once, and so we you know, like that's

405
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<v Speaker 2>why I wouldn't have the conversation with Lebron, Like not

406
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<v Speaker 2>because I expected him to undo it, but I wanted

407
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<v Speaker 2>him to think about it next time. And then he

408
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<v Speaker 2>did send a tweet subsequently telling people to leave me alone,

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<v Speaker 2>which surprised I was surprised because I thought I thought

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<v Speaker 2>that that would actually only further stoke the fire, but

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<v Speaker 2>it did sort of subside after that.

412
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<v Speaker 1>I wonder, as a guy who covered Lebron in Los

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<v Speaker 1>Angeles for a number of years, like, look, I'm not

414
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<v Speaker 1>a Lebron hater. Okay, this this guy was put on

415
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<v Speaker 1>the cover of a magazine at seventeen and we all

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<v Speaker 1>told him your next and he was. And he has

417
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:24.279
<v Speaker 1>done everything from an on court standpoint to justify the

418
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:28.559
<v Speaker 1>attention he received as a child, okay, and off the court,

419
00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:31.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, there are there aren't a ton of Lebron

420
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:36.119
<v Speaker 1>James controversies that look really, really bad. So I wonder

421
00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:40.759
<v Speaker 1>if you could help me understand why does Lebron wade

422
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:44.160
<v Speaker 1>into these battles with Bill orm Why does Lebron wade

423
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:47.359
<v Speaker 1>into these battles with even Stephen A. Smith, And look

424
00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:50.920
<v Speaker 1>the Stephen A Smith skip bailification of media is something

425
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:52.640
<v Speaker 1>I push back on all the time. I don't do

426
00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:55.440
<v Speaker 1>the show the way they do. I understand that the

427
00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:58.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, the piece of real estate he's carved out

428
00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:59.720
<v Speaker 1>puts him on a different level than most of us.

429
00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:03.680
<v Speaker 1>That's he's one hundred million dollar media personality. But you know,

430
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:06.519
<v Speaker 1>Steven A. Smith, Bryan Windhorse, who again, what are you?

431
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Brian Winhorse has stood up for Lebron more than any

432
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:12.200
<v Speaker 1>media member or or if it's Bill arm whatever it is.

433
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Why do you think Lebron wades in these waters when

434
00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.559
<v Speaker 1>he does not have to at all? I don't understand what, what,

435
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:22.079
<v Speaker 1>what service the what purpose this serves for him? I

436
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:24.920
<v Speaker 1>don't get it, Bill, I don't.

437
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:27.400
<v Speaker 2>And I think the best thing that I've been able

438
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:30.359
<v Speaker 2>to kind of land on is that, in any sort

439
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.240
<v Speaker 2>of spew, if you will, the power dynamic with Lebron

440
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:40.640
<v Speaker 2>and literally anyone else is so dramatically skewed towards Lebron

441
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.839
<v Speaker 2>that he can't lose. Like he cannot, you know, in

442
00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:47.920
<v Speaker 2>terms of like winning or losing the argument, Like he

443
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.559
<v Speaker 2>has the fan base, he has the support. You know,

444
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.680
<v Speaker 2>what he says goes. So if he's feeling like he's

445
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.039
<v Speaker 2>in a back and forth, all he has to do

446
00:21:57.079 --> 00:21:59.960
<v Speaker 2>is basically signal boosts his opinion or his point of view,

447
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:02.960
<v Speaker 2>and he gets the support so he can't lose. And

448
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:04.920
<v Speaker 2>so it's like, you know, it's you know, it's it's

449
00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:08.759
<v Speaker 2>flyswatter against the fly. Even even Steven a by the way,

450
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:12.519
<v Speaker 2>who has a massive platform, you know, his audience and platform,

451
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.319
<v Speaker 2>and the people who would stand for Stephen A. Smith,

452
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:18.720
<v Speaker 2>you know, whoever they are, is is nowhere near what

453
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:21.559
<v Speaker 2>Lebron has. And so I think that it's you know,

454
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:26.440
<v Speaker 2>you're he's so accustomed to winning and by ascension being

455
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:28.599
<v Speaker 2>right that I think that he ends up kind of

456
00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:33.039
<v Speaker 2>abusing his his his power in those dynamics. Now the

457
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:35.920
<v Speaker 2>thing that I think ends up happening. And listen, I'm

458
00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:38.720
<v Speaker 2>not a Lebron hater by any stretch. I have incredible

459
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:42.119
<v Speaker 2>respect from Lebron. I enjoyed my four years covering him,

460
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.079
<v Speaker 2>getting to know him on a professional level. But I

461
00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.680
<v Speaker 2>do think that by wading into these waters, it it

462
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:53.960
<v Speaker 2>shows a level of like pettiness and insecurity that I

463
00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:56.160
<v Speaker 2>don't think that he would really want to be part

464
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:59.160
<v Speaker 2>of his resume or his image, and the more he

465
00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:01.480
<v Speaker 2>does it and the more times he takes on these

466
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:05.920
<v Speaker 2>silly battles, I do think it has a negative impact

467
00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:08.480
<v Speaker 2>on like what we would call his legacy, right, And

468
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm not I don't think this hits like knocks him

469
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.039
<v Speaker 2>down in the you know, who's greater him, Jordan whatever, whatever,

470
00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:17.359
<v Speaker 2>But like it does sort of feed into some of

471
00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:20.759
<v Speaker 2>these stereotypes about him on the court, right, which is like,

472
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:24.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's not as mentally tough, or he's not

473
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:27.240
<v Speaker 2>as clutch or you know, I mean obviously that you know,

474
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:29.240
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to take the last shot for a long time,

475
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:31.720
<v Speaker 2>dogged him in his career. He's not as clutch as

476
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.839
<v Speaker 2>much as Jordan was. You know, these things I realized

477
00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:37.000
<v Speaker 2>they're not a one to one comparison, but I do

478
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:40.559
<v Speaker 2>think they sort of feed into some of these stereotypes

479
00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:43.720
<v Speaker 2>that Lebron faces. And when we think about like, you know,

480
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:47.359
<v Speaker 2>late career Kareem, you know, Kareem was a guy who

481
00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:52.000
<v Speaker 2>who picked you know, various you know, various battles with

482
00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:55.079
<v Speaker 2>writers and media, and you know, would was you know,

483
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:58.359
<v Speaker 2>overly focused on these perceived slights and that becomes a

484
00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:01.160
<v Speaker 2>big part of his legacy and how he remembered. I

485
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:03.079
<v Speaker 2>think there is a risk for Lebron that if he

486
00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:05.880
<v Speaker 2>continues to take these battles, this will be part of

487
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:08.279
<v Speaker 2>what people remember about late career Lebron, and I just

488
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:09.440
<v Speaker 2>don't think it's very flattering.

489
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:15.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, Riz King, appreciate the time today. Where can people

490
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.640
<v Speaker 1>go get all the work, whether it's the videos, the podcast,

491
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:21.279
<v Speaker 1>what you're doing, as far as your writing goes, where

492
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:22.240
<v Speaker 1>can everybody go find it?

493
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:25.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm doing most of my social media on Blue

494
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Sky these days, Spence. I've mostly jumped off of the

495
00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:34.319
<v Speaker 2>the X machine except for infrequent, infrequently sharing a column

496
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:40.000
<v Speaker 2>I've written there, So Blue Sky, Bill Orum, Instagram, Bill Oregonian,

497
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:43.160
<v Speaker 2>TikTok too. And then I got to tell you, I'm

498
00:24:43.160 --> 00:24:46.559
<v Speaker 2>loving these videos we're doing. I'm posting them when I can.

499
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:50.160
<v Speaker 2>But you know, give the Oregonian a follow on social, Instagram,

500
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:55.000
<v Speaker 2>everywhere else, and then of course the column regularly. You know,

501
00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:59.440
<v Speaker 2>various various topics, points of view on orgon live dot

502
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.319
<v Speaker 2>com and if you happen to be in Portland, Oregon

503
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:06.920
<v Speaker 2>listening to Spence from here where I am pick up

504
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.880
<v Speaker 2>a print newspaper. We're back in broadsheet.

505
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.160
<v Speaker 1>O love it, love it. I still whenever I can

506
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:14.000
<v Speaker 1>I pick up a paper, I still read books. I

507
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:17.240
<v Speaker 1>don't know, man, maybe I'm old about Bill. It's always

508
00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:19.319
<v Speaker 1>great catching up. Are you coming into town anytime soon?

509
00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:20.680
<v Speaker 1>We'd love to catch a beverage with you.

510
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm just not entirely. I still have I still

511
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:28.160
<v Speaker 2>have the Lebron haters who are who are concerned themselves

512
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:29.599
<v Speaker 2>with my whereabouts. So I don't know if I needed,

513
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:31.200
<v Speaker 2>if I should, if I can actually give you my

514
00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:34.720
<v Speaker 2>travel schedule on air smart, But let me just say

515
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:37.160
<v Speaker 2>that there's a chance will be in Utah at some

516
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:39.480
<v Speaker 2>point in the not so distant future, and I'd love

517
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:40.000
<v Speaker 2>to see you too.

518
00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:41.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, buddy, don't be a stranger. Thanks for the time.

519
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:44.279
<v Speaker 2>Be good, Okay, hey, thank you, good tiking.

520
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:46.359
<v Speaker 1>All right. The great Bill Orm spent a number of

521
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:48.480
<v Speaker 1>years down here with the trip, and now he's back

522
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:50.960
<v Speaker 1>home in the backyard where he grew up, riding for

523
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:54.400
<v Speaker 1>the Oregonian. His piece on the Lebron Beef I thought

524
00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:56.880
<v Speaker 1>was really good and make some really really fair and

525
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.960
<v Speaker 1>salient points. I don't understand why Lebron wades in these

526
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.079
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't have to like at all, but I appreciate

527
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Bill's time. Bill stops by today courtesy of our good

528
00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:08.559
<v Speaker 1>friends at IFA Country Stores, and he drive to the

529
00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:10.720
<v Speaker 1>basket begins with the first step on the court. That's

530
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:14.799
<v Speaker 1>the ultimate power move IFA Step one. Crabgrass Preventor plus

531
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:16.720
<v Speaker 1>their lawn Food is the first choice to give your

532
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:19.400
<v Speaker 1>yard the healthy, thick green look you desire. The neighbors

533
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.599
<v Speaker 1>will be green with envy. Shop IFA online at IFA

534
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:25.160
<v Speaker 1>dot co Op, or stop by one of their eighteen

535
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Utah locations today