Speaker 1: You know. I have the New York Times obituary up
Speaker 1: for Val Kilmer and they have not referenced Tombstone as
Speaker 1: one of the movies in the obituary. Is that wild?
Speaker 1: How do you not do that? It seems like quite
Speaker 1: the omission. Oh all right, A source indicates our next guest.
Speaker 1: I was also unhappy about that. He is social media
Speaker 1: influencer Bill orm on the program on a Wednesday, Bill,
Speaker 1: Happy Wednesday, sir, how are you you know?
Speaker 2: It took me a second to figure out where that
Speaker 2: would have come from, because I was absolutely on fire
Speaker 2: about this last night in the group chat. They did
Speaker 2: update it after about thirty minutes, though, so it got
Speaker 2: in there. But I was just on fire that you
Speaker 2: could have a full obituary for Val Kilmer and not
Speaker 2: include his iconic role as doc Holiday. So I'm glad
Speaker 2: the New York Times came around on that. But it's
Speaker 2: great to be here, Spez. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for the time. You should know that we
Speaker 1: had one Christopher Camaraddie live in studio for an hour today,
Speaker 1: so there were several old Bill Orang stories that were shared.
Speaker 1: Just so you know, do I need to.
Speaker 2: Go back and listen to it and make sure that
Speaker 2: no secrets were spilled.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Bill, I thought you were a daily listener live.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm mistaken.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I was on deadline over here. I apologize.
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, Well, young man, you went viral recently,
Speaker 1: and as I reference, you have certainly leaned into the
Speaker 1: social media content sharing and no hatred. I don't know
Speaker 1: that I could do it. You're better at it than
Speaker 1: I am. But tell our listeners what happened, how this
Speaker 1: all went down. Let's go from there.
Speaker 2: Oh it's funny. I was at the TAA tournament in
Speaker 2: Seattle and sitting ended up being seated behind the TNT
Speaker 2: broadcasting crew directly behind Jalen Rose for the Oregon Arizona game,
Speaker 2: and I was seated next to a local television reporter
Speaker 2: here in Portland, Brenda Green from Channel six, and she
Speaker 2: happens to co host my podcast, which is the Oregonian
Speaker 2: Sports Podcast. So we were joking around about using that
Speaker 2: as an opportunity to to pimp the Oregonian Sports podcast.
Speaker 2: So with about a minute left in the game, you
Speaker 2: can see us having a very spirited conversation and good
Speaker 2: lip readers would be able to tell that she and
Speaker 2: I were both saying Oregonian Sports Podcast or Agonian Sports
Speaker 2: podcast or Agonian Sports podcast. But there weren't a lot
Speaker 2: of lip readers on the internet apparently, and they thought
Speaker 2: something else was going on, and I got labeled a
Speaker 2: riz god and basically basically became a hero of the
Speaker 2: Internet for spitting game with a minute left in the
Speaker 2: in the NCLA tournament, which was not what was going on.
Speaker 2: In case my wife is listening, but yes, riz God, Bill,
Speaker 2: thanks for putting it on TNT.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Bill, Are you claiming to not be a
Speaker 1: riz god? That was always my understanding?
Speaker 2: Okay, I am. I am also a riz god. It's
Speaker 2: just at that moment, wasn't the proof that people thought
Speaker 2: it was okay?
Speaker 1: Fair enough because I didn't catch it live. But whoever
Speaker 1: set it out initially on Twitter, I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's because I've interacted with you before I came across
Speaker 1: my feed, and of course I promptly shared it with
Speaker 1: Aaron and Chris and everybody, and they were already on it.
Speaker 1: Of course, you can't get anything by ck.
Speaker 2: You know that you got some of the best reporters
Speaker 2: in the country right there. In Salt Lake.
Speaker 1: Did this Did this turn into tangible results for the pod?
Speaker 2: You know, we've only had one episode since, and so
Speaker 2: we're still waiting for those metrics to come in on
Speaker 2: whether or not it is, whether it's going to give
Speaker 2: us the boost that we hoped. But I think that,
Speaker 2: you know, continued media appearances like this one where I'm
Speaker 2: able to talk about the exposure for the Oregonian Sports
Speaker 2: Podcast Oregonian Sports Podcast, it can only help. And I
Speaker 2: should also plug my new video series, the ORUM Forum,
Speaker 2: which you can find on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1: Oh, you're leaned into the TikTok side of things, now, Okay,
Speaker 1: So we were talking about during the Cko, which you
Speaker 1: listen to live and you'll listen to later later in
Speaker 1: the replay, of course, how you have leaned into this
Speaker 1: social media influencer content, you know kind of approach. What
Speaker 1: motivated this? Now you I did not know this about
Speaker 1: you until earlier, but Christopher shared with us that you
Speaker 1: or a fan of the art. You are a musical fan.
Speaker 1: You enjoy play. So maybe there's a thesbian that's late
Speaker 1: that's been inside you this entire time.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I played Rusty Charlie and Guys and Dolls
Speaker 2: get back into sech A High School in two thousand
Speaker 2: and two. So I mean that was kind of the
Speaker 2: beginning of my Well, that's actually not true. In nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety four, I played Winthrop Peru in The Music Man
Speaker 2: and the Sega High School. I was in the first
Speaker 2: grade that they needed a first grader to play Winthrop,
Speaker 2: so I was up there on stage singing Gary Indiana
Speaker 2: and playing the little Cornett. So yeah, I mean, really
Speaker 2: it all began then. I think you could safely say,
Speaker 2: but no, I mean, I think, you know, we're just
Speaker 2: trying to embrace the moment, the media moment, and meeting
Speaker 2: our readers and our consumers where they are. And they're
Speaker 2: not just on the printed pages of the Oregone In anymore,
Speaker 2: as much as sometimes we wish they were. You know,
Speaker 2: they're online, They're on TikTok, they're on Instagram, and so
Speaker 2: we go. We go where our readers are, where their
Speaker 2: eyeballs are, and so we're trying to, you know, present
Speaker 2: our information in a lot of different ways. I wrote
Speaker 2: a column today that will be in print in The
Speaker 2: Oregonian tomorrow, but it's online right now about Toomani Kamara
Speaker 2: from the Blazers and his bid for an all defensive
Speaker 2: team spot. And then we just made a video about
Speaker 2: it too where I'm where I'm talking about it, and
Speaker 2: we had a lot of fun with it that way.
Speaker 2: So trying to reach trying to reach our you know,
Speaker 2: our subscribers in different places. But it's it's fun for
Speaker 2: me because I do like to have fun with, you know,
Speaker 2: with with these sorts of things, and so it gives
Speaker 2: me a different way to sort of flex those art
Speaker 2: kid muscles. For sure.
Speaker 1: Was that the character ron Howard played in the film
Speaker 1: adaptation Winthrop cam I remember that correctly.
Speaker 2: You absolutely are. When he was Ronnie Howard, he played uh,
Speaker 2: he played Winthrop Peru singing Gary, Indiana and the Wells
Speaker 2: Fargo Wagon with this q little lisp I had. I
Speaker 2: had a lisp and everything.
Speaker 1: Wait, wait, do we have video evidence of this? Bill?
Speaker 2: You know? I am just I am just uh uh,
Speaker 2: I'm self destructive enough that I will I will try
Speaker 2: to find the video and get it to you.
Speaker 1: Please. Oh, I want nothing more. No, I'd appreciate that.
Speaker 1: And look, I want to I want to be clear.
Speaker 1: I respect the attempt, I respect the endeavor. I respect
Speaker 1: the desire to be front facing. Is there any part
Speaker 1: of it that you're not that comfortable with? I just
Speaker 1: I don't know that I've ever really been able to
Speaker 1: lean into stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm concerned about my wardrobe spence. I don't have
Speaker 2: a wardrobe budget from the Oregonians. So it's pretty soon
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to start repeating, repeating outfits on the
Speaker 2: orum Forum. And I think that, you know, the viewers
Speaker 2: are gonna are gonna are gonna object to that, and
Speaker 2: so I'm gonna have to talk to my bosses about,
Speaker 2: you know, increasing a bit of a wardrobe budget here
Speaker 2: so I can keep it fresh, keep the fit fresh
Speaker 2: for a viewers.
Speaker 1: Is this all sports related? Is it all sports related
Speaker 1: surrounding the great city of Portland in the area in
Speaker 1: which you work now?
Speaker 2: It is right now, but I mean, like I think
Speaker 2: we'd be open to expanding it beyond sports really if
Speaker 2: you if you ever wanted to submit a question or
Speaker 2: have me address it. I mean, it is the Oorum Forum,
Speaker 2: so we like to think of it as a bit
Speaker 2: of a two way street. So last week we did
Speaker 2: an episode where I was answered questions about the Blazers
Speaker 2: Ducks baseball to Portland. I know that baseball issue, the
Speaker 2: Portland versus Salt Lake thing has been has been going strong.
Speaker 2: So try and tackle all those issues. But I mean
Speaker 2: we could, we could expand beyond sports. I mean the
Speaker 2: video I recorded today, I dropped a Sabrina Carpenter reference. Nice,
Speaker 2: so be on the lookout for that.
Speaker 1: I like it. I like it. Hey, what's been You know,
Speaker 1: we we're pretty similar markets Salik and Portland. You know,
Speaker 1: Portland a little bit, a little bit bigger when you
Speaker 1: look at the rating system, I think we're twenty twenty eight,
Speaker 1: twenty nine. Portland's like nineteen or twenty. But when it
Speaker 1: comes to NBA teams, great college teams, then MLS is well,
Speaker 1: and then the desire to expand, we're we're pretty similar.
Speaker 1: And we also find ourselves as strange bedfellows with two
Speaker 1: NBA teams that are unserious about winning. What's the what's
Speaker 1: the public support or lack thereof? With this Blazers team
Speaker 1: that's still trying to find their way with a bunch
Speaker 1: of young players. It's been rough down here trying to
Speaker 1: cover the jazz. They just lost their sixtieth game. We've
Speaker 1: never had that happen here, And you wrote here and
Speaker 1: you were a medium member here for a while, and
Speaker 1: we're spoiled because the Jazz more often than not, are
Speaker 1: good and when they're not, they find their way back.
Speaker 1: And they're not close to finding their way back. What
Speaker 1: are the challenges trying to cover a team that's un
Speaker 1: serious about competing.
Speaker 2: Well, not just unseerious about competing, but in a town
Speaker 2: where fans have, like you said, spoiled, but just been
Speaker 2: really accustomed to having a team that you know, was
Speaker 2: in the mix every year. And you know, the Jazz
Speaker 2: obviously had a brief period where they were true championship contenders,
Speaker 2: but you know, for the most part, you could just
Speaker 2: count on them to be in the mid of that
Speaker 2: Western Conference race and win a playoff series and be
Speaker 2: a tough out and that was, you know, something the
Speaker 2: city could sort of be proud of and rally behind.
Speaker 2: Portland it was the same. So these are two teams
Speaker 2: and franchises and fan bases that are not accustomed to
Speaker 2: the idea of tanking really historically, and so in Portland,
Speaker 2: I think there's actually been a bit of a I
Speaker 2: think there's been a bit of a reversal in public opinion.
Speaker 2: If you'd ask me this in December or January, I
Speaker 2: would have said, oh, fans are sick of the Blazers
Speaker 2: tanking and all this, you know, you know, this this
Speaker 2: uncertainty around who they're building around. I think people are
Speaker 2: buying in on this Blazers team finally because they've gotten
Speaker 2: so much better since January fifteenth. They had kind of
Speaker 2: a rough March, but they're gonna finish the season with
Speaker 2: like thirty five thirty six wins, and that's kind of
Speaker 2: a disaster in the tanking realm, right, Like they've basically
Speaker 2: taken themselves out of having you know, well you consider
Speaker 2: to be a good shot at Cooper Flag. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's still a chance statistically that they could jump into
Speaker 2: that top four, but you know, they have basically said, hey,
Speaker 2: you're gonna embrace you know, letting our young guys play
Speaker 2: and compete and win the games they can. And you know,
Speaker 2: it's I think it's brought people back. You know, you're
Speaker 2: able to see the growth that Danny Advia has had
Speaker 2: in his year in Portland. I mean, I mean, Spence,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here and try to say
Speaker 2: that like Denny Advia is a number one option going forward.
Speaker 2: But he's been a really good player. I mean, he's
Speaker 2: you know, he's scored thirty plus, you know, in several
Speaker 2: straight games. He's you know, his numbers over the last
Speaker 2: month are all star level. And again I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that's who he is, you know, going forward, but you know,
Speaker 2: he's really asserted himself as a a really, really really
Speaker 2: good player TOI Monti Kamara, like I mentioned, deserves to
Speaker 2: be on an all defensive team. And so with Portland,
Speaker 2: there's those signs of growth that show that they're kind
Speaker 2: of pointing in the right direction. Now. Kind of taking
Speaker 2: those steps before you really have an identity in terms
Speaker 2: of like a star that you're building around can be
Speaker 2: dangerous because that is how teams do end up kind
Speaker 2: of getting stuck in the middle. So I think that's
Speaker 2: the risk that the Blazers are facing. It's it's kind
Speaker 2: of like, Okay, you've got some pieces here, but who's
Speaker 2: your guy? They need to go find a guy, and
Speaker 2: that's what you know, I think they need to do basically,
Speaker 2: you know, this summer and if it's not going to
Speaker 2: be in the draft and it's not going to be
Speaker 2: a Cooper Flag Dylan Harper type guy. You know, what
Speaker 2: can you go? Do you know? On the trademarket? And
Speaker 2: I mean that's that's the challenge they face, you know.
Speaker 1: It's it's interesting and I haven't had John for a minute,
Speaker 1: so we can talk about things that I've talked about
Speaker 1: with a lot of my NBA guests. And the most uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the most conservative guess here is eight teams
Speaker 1: now in pro basketball have been unserious and it makes
Speaker 1: the product so hard to watch. And yes, I'm operating
Speaker 1: off the prism of watching our local team completely bail
Speaker 1: on any sort of competitive nature. And the debate turns
Speaker 1: into Bill like is this a problem for the league?
Speaker 1: And I think the answer is yes, and ratings would
Speaker 1: back this up. And then the other side of it
Speaker 1: is they're about to enter a seventy two billion dollar
Speaker 1: broadcast deal. So if you ask the league office, they're
Speaker 1: gonna look at you and say, oh wait, what exactly
Speaker 1: is our problem? Like look at our P and L statement,
Speaker 1: I get it. Do you think this is do you
Speaker 1: think this is an issue where the Wembin Yama injury
Speaker 1: causes san Antonio to go on on tanking Philadelphia has
Speaker 1: a pick that could go to OKC unless they lose
Speaker 1: the rest of their game, so they bench everybody. They've
Speaker 1: lost nine straight. So again conservative estimates, seven or eight teams.
Speaker 1: More realistic, probably a third of the league unseerious about competing.
Speaker 1: Do you think this is a problem in pro basketball?
Speaker 2: I think it's a problem in the individual markets for sure.
Speaker 2: You know, Like I don't think that, you know, I
Speaker 2: think I think that it is so taxing on a
Speaker 2: fan base to have to punt on a season, you know,
Speaker 2: one season after the next and hope for lottery on.
Speaker 2: I don't know that it is doing enough damage to
Speaker 2: the league at large to get change affected. But I
Speaker 2: think you know what you're talking about with you know,
Speaker 2: the fatigue in Salt Lake and having never seen a
Speaker 2: team like this, say, you know, same in Portland over
Speaker 2: the last few years where they pulled the chair out
Speaker 2: in the final, you know, after the All Star break
Speaker 2: each of the last three years. I mean they you know,
Speaker 2: had you know, stretches where they went like I want
Speaker 2: to say, like three and twenty two over the last
Speaker 2: two months of the season a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just absolutely a miserable flog and it's
Speaker 2: really hard to see the payoff when you're stuck in it.
Speaker 2: So I do think that what you lose potentially is
Speaker 2: you lise lose in market fans for teams that have
Speaker 2: traditionally had really good fan support. And what these teams
Speaker 2: bank on, you know, is that hey, when we start
Speaker 2: winning again, those people are going to come back. And
Speaker 2: you know, look, I mean Philadelphia went through one of
Speaker 2: the most miserable tanking you know, stretches ever and once
Speaker 2: they were you know, I know they're bad again, but
Speaker 2: once they were, once they were kind of back in
Speaker 2: the mix, I mean, Wealth Fargo Center was full. And
Speaker 2: so you know, I think that I think that NBA
Speaker 2: teams have kind of started to take that that fan
Speaker 2: loyalty for granted that they will come back once you
Speaker 2: put a winning product on the floor. And I think
Speaker 2: that that is and I think that is unfortunate that
Speaker 2: there isn't more consideration about the fan experience year to
Speaker 2: year and those teams that are trying to get back
Speaker 2: on top through the.
Speaker 1: Lottery on the One of the things that motivated us
Speaker 1: to book you is we had Howard Beck on the
Speaker 1: show on Friday, and I asked Howard about the week
Speaker 1: that occurred, you know, last week in the ecosystem of
Speaker 1: media and NBA basketball where Lebron James went on Pat
Speaker 1: McAfee's show and took shots at Stephen A. Smith after
Speaker 1: Steven A. Smith was talking about Brownie on his show.
Speaker 1: Then there's the clip of Lebron confronting Steven A at
Speaker 1: a game. He even took a shot at Windhorse, which
Speaker 1: was wild. Nobody has stood up for Lebron James and
Speaker 1: the media ecosystem more than Brian Winhorse. So I was
Speaker 1: asking Howard about it, and his reaction was predictably curmudgeon
Speaker 1: and didn't want to discuss it, and said, my friend
Speaker 1: Bill orm wrote a piece on his beef with Lebron,
Speaker 1: which I remembered, but then I pulled up what you
Speaker 1: had written. Have it in front of me. Now. So
Speaker 1: before we get into this, Bill, I want you to
Speaker 1: give our listeners some context about what happened with you
Speaker 1: and Lebron, the actual incident that took place.
Speaker 2: Well, so the background there, Spence, was that in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty two, the Lakers, you know, were kind of limping
Speaker 2: toward another you know, unimpressive finish with Lebron James and
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis. Lebron was getting restless at the All Star Game.
Speaker 2: He actually told one of our reporters when I was
Speaker 2: at the Athletic, Jason Lloyd, that you know, a return
Speaker 2: to Cleveland wasn't out of the realm of possibility. And
Speaker 2: so I had written something to the effect of, you know,
Speaker 2: this is how Lebron does it. He's exerting pressure on
Speaker 2: the franchise by kind of starting to drop breadcrumbs that
Speaker 2: he could leave if things don't get better, you know,
Speaker 2: as they don't start making moves. He did quoted less sneak,
Speaker 2: you know, f them picks, you know, trade the picks
Speaker 2: for help. Now, you know. It was just it was
Speaker 2: clear what was happening, and so I wrote about that,
Speaker 2: and Lebron or somebody close to Lebron felt like I had,
Speaker 2: that it wasn't true. I think it was. I think
Speaker 2: the problem really was that it was more true than
Speaker 2: they wanted to admit. And so in a press conference,
Speaker 2: Lebron had, you know, taken a shot at me and
Speaker 2: said that, you know, nobody should listen to me. And
Speaker 2: then the internet, of course did what it did what
Speaker 2: it does, and you know, I got a lot of
Speaker 2: you know, mean mean comments and threats, including you know,
Speaker 2: a Google Earth image of my home from somebody who said,
Speaker 2: you know, you better stop lying about Lebron. And so
Speaker 2: I had a conversation with Lebron about it, and the
Speaker 2: point I wanted to sort of you know, this was
Speaker 2: after a press conference in the hallway at Staples Center,
Speaker 2: and the point I wanted to kind of make to
Speaker 2: him was, you know, when he uses his platform to
Speaker 2: come after people like me, people like Brian Windhorst as well,
Speaker 2: even though Brian has a bigger platform than I do,
Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't have security, you know, he has
Speaker 2: you know, presumably you know, the same amount of security
Speaker 2: as I have, which at the time was a ring
Speaker 2: doorbell and a golden Retriever. And so I told Lebron,
Speaker 2: when you use a platform to come after people like that,
Speaker 2: even though we might be critical of you, when you
Speaker 2: are as directly and vocally critical of us, it puts
Speaker 2: a target on us in a way, you know, and
Speaker 2: it gives people like kind of the the bad actors
Speaker 2: permission to come out of the woodwork and think they're
Speaker 2: acting on his behalf. And he really rejected that. So
Speaker 2: we went back and forth, and as the conversation regressed,
Speaker 2: he finally just said it, well, better buy a gun,
Speaker 2: and that was sort of the uh, that was sort
Speaker 2: of the acme of our of our encounter on that
Speaker 2: particular issue.
Speaker 1: What was your reaction, because I had a similar situation
Speaker 1: I had, and you know, every time I tell the story,
Speaker 1: I have to put the context on it. I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that all BYU fans are like this, but a
Speaker 1: number of years ago I was working at a different
Speaker 1: station where a coworker of mine broke a story. I
Speaker 1: didn't even break the story, but a coworker of mine
Speaker 1: broke a story about a guy named Dwayne Busby, who
Speaker 1: was some BYU super fan, if I remember correctly, he
Speaker 1: was on staff down there, and they found out it's
Speaker 1: wild to say this with the current landscape of college athletics,
Speaker 1: but he was providing some assistance to athletes and you know,
Speaker 1: things that right now are a legal and B you
Speaker 1: just don't even think about. But back this was like
Speaker 1: two thy twelve or thirteen, a coworker of mine reported it,
Speaker 1: and our entire station became the you know, the target
Speaker 1: for a grip of BYU fans, and one of them
Speaker 1: did the same thing sent a picture of my house
Speaker 1: to my feed with a threatening message, and that was
Speaker 1: the first time I went, oh, my gosh, okay, this
Speaker 1: is It's no longer sending me pictures of certain things
Speaker 1: or making fun of me for mistakes I made when
Speaker 1: I was younger, Like, this is real, this is personal.
Speaker 1: That's where I live, that's where I'm at right now.
Speaker 1: It was one of the most disconcerting, uncomfortable things that
Speaker 1: ever happened to me. What was your reaction and your
Speaker 1: wife's reaction when that message spilled in.
Speaker 2: You know, I had maybe I maybe I had a
Speaker 2: detachment from it, just because I had at the time
Speaker 2: was spending so much time on social media and Twitter,
Speaker 2: and I kind of rolled my eyes and a lot
Speaker 2: of the stuff that happens there, even something as personal
Speaker 2: as that. But my wife was really was really frightened,
Speaker 2: and just the idea, you know, let me listen to me.
Speaker 2: We had young children, you know, she you know, I
Speaker 2: was traveling a lot for work, all those things, and
Speaker 2: the idea that somebody had gone to that level of
Speaker 2: effort to spook us at that point, you don't know,
Speaker 2: you know, maybe you assume that it's not a real threat,
Speaker 2: but that's not something that's something you can only be
Speaker 2: wrong about once, and so we you know, like that's
Speaker 2: why I wouldn't have the conversation with Lebron, Like not
Speaker 2: because I expected him to undo it, but I wanted
Speaker 2: him to think about it next time. And then he
Speaker 2: did send a tweet subsequently telling people to leave me alone,
Speaker 2: which surprised I was surprised because I thought I thought
Speaker 2: that that would actually only further stoke the fire, but
Speaker 2: it did sort of subside after that.
Speaker 1: I wonder, as a guy who covered Lebron in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles for a number of years, like, look, I'm not
Speaker 1: a Lebron hater. Okay, this this guy was put on
Speaker 1: the cover of a magazine at seventeen and we all
Speaker 1: told him your next and he was. And he has
Speaker 1: done everything from an on court standpoint to justify the
Speaker 1: attention he received as a child, okay, and off the court,
Speaker 1: you know, there are there aren't a ton of Lebron
Speaker 1: James controversies that look really, really bad. So I wonder
Speaker 1: if you could help me understand why does Lebron wade
Speaker 1: into these battles with Bill orm Why does Lebron wade
Speaker 1: into these battles with even Stephen A. Smith, And look
Speaker 1: the Stephen A Smith skip bailification of media is something
Speaker 1: I push back on all the time. I don't do
Speaker 1: the show the way they do. I understand that the
Speaker 1: you know, the piece of real estate he's carved out
Speaker 1: puts him on a different level than most of us.
Speaker 1: That's he's one hundred million dollar media personality. But you know,
Speaker 1: Steven A. Smith, Bryan Windhorse, who again, what are you?
Speaker 1: Brian Winhorse has stood up for Lebron more than any
Speaker 1: media member or or if it's Bill arm whatever it is.
Speaker 1: Why do you think Lebron wades in these waters when
Speaker 1: he does not have to at all? I don't understand what, what,
Speaker 1: what service the what purpose this serves for him? I
Speaker 1: don't get it, Bill, I don't.
Speaker 2: And I think the best thing that I've been able
Speaker 2: to kind of land on is that, in any sort
Speaker 2: of spew, if you will, the power dynamic with Lebron
Speaker 2: and literally anyone else is so dramatically skewed towards Lebron
Speaker 2: that he can't lose. Like he cannot, you know, in
Speaker 2: terms of like winning or losing the argument, Like he
Speaker 2: has the fan base, he has the support. You know,
Speaker 2: what he says goes. So if he's feeling like he's
Speaker 2: in a back and forth, all he has to do
Speaker 2: is basically signal boosts his opinion or his point of view,
Speaker 2: and he gets the support so he can't lose. And
Speaker 2: so it's like, you know, it's you know, it's it's
Speaker 2: flyswatter against the fly. Even even Steven a by the way,
Speaker 2: who has a massive platform, you know, his audience and platform,
Speaker 2: and the people who would stand for Stephen A. Smith,
Speaker 2: you know, whoever they are, is is nowhere near what
Speaker 2: Lebron has. And so I think that it's you know,
Speaker 2: you're he's so accustomed to winning and by ascension being
Speaker 2: right that I think that he ends up kind of
Speaker 2: abusing his his his power in those dynamics. Now the
Speaker 2: thing that I think ends up happening. And listen, I'm
Speaker 2: not a Lebron hater by any stretch. I have incredible
Speaker 2: respect from Lebron. I enjoyed my four years covering him,
Speaker 2: getting to know him on a professional level. But I
Speaker 2: do think that by wading into these waters, it it
Speaker 2: shows a level of like pettiness and insecurity that I
Speaker 2: don't think that he would really want to be part
Speaker 2: of his resume or his image, and the more he
Speaker 2: does it and the more times he takes on these
Speaker 2: silly battles, I do think it has a negative impact
Speaker 2: on like what we would call his legacy, right, And
Speaker 2: I'm not I don't think this hits like knocks him
Speaker 2: down in the you know, who's greater him, Jordan whatever, whatever,
Speaker 2: But like it does sort of feed into some of
Speaker 2: these stereotypes about him on the court, right, which is like,
Speaker 2: you know, he's not as mentally tough, or he's not
Speaker 2: as clutch or you know, I mean obviously that you know,
Speaker 2: didn't want to take the last shot for a long time,
Speaker 2: dogged him in his career. He's not as clutch as
Speaker 2: much as Jordan was. You know, these things I realized
Speaker 2: they're not a one to one comparison, but I do
Speaker 2: think they sort of feed into some of these stereotypes
Speaker 2: that Lebron faces. And when we think about like, you know,
Speaker 2: late career Kareem, you know, Kareem was a guy who
Speaker 2: who picked you know, various you know, various battles with
Speaker 2: writers and media, and you know, would was you know,
Speaker 2: overly focused on these perceived slights and that becomes a
Speaker 2: big part of his legacy and how he remembered. I
Speaker 2: think there is a risk for Lebron that if he
Speaker 2: continues to take these battles, this will be part of
Speaker 2: what people remember about late career Lebron, and I just
Speaker 2: don't think it's very flattering.
Speaker 1: Well, Riz King, appreciate the time today. Where can people
Speaker 1: go get all the work, whether it's the videos, the podcast,
Speaker 1: what you're doing, as far as your writing goes, where
Speaker 1: can everybody go find it?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm doing most of my social media on Blue
Speaker 2: Sky these days, Spence. I've mostly jumped off of the
Speaker 2: the X machine except for infrequent, infrequently sharing a column
Speaker 2: I've written there, So Blue Sky, Bill Orum, Instagram, Bill Oregonian,
Speaker 2: TikTok too. And then I got to tell you, I'm
Speaker 2: loving these videos we're doing. I'm posting them when I can.
Speaker 2: But you know, give the Oregonian a follow on social, Instagram,
Speaker 2: everywhere else, and then of course the column regularly. You know,
Speaker 2: various various topics, points of view on orgon live dot
Speaker 2: com and if you happen to be in Portland, Oregon
Speaker 2: listening to Spence from here where I am pick up
Speaker 2: a print newspaper. We're back in broadsheet.
Speaker 1: O love it, love it. I still whenever I can
Speaker 1: I pick up a paper, I still read books. I
Speaker 1: don't know, man, maybe I'm old about Bill. It's always
Speaker 1: great catching up. Are you coming into town anytime soon?
Speaker 1: We'd love to catch a beverage with you.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just not entirely. I still have I still
Speaker 2: have the Lebron haters who are who are concerned themselves
Speaker 2: with my whereabouts. So I don't know if I needed,
Speaker 2: if I should, if I can actually give you my
Speaker 2: travel schedule on air smart, But let me just say
Speaker 2: that there's a chance will be in Utah at some
Speaker 2: point in the not so distant future, and I'd love
Speaker 2: to see you too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, buddy, don't be a stranger. Thanks for the time.
Speaker 2: Be good, Okay, hey, thank you, good tiking.
Speaker 1: All right. The great Bill Orm spent a number of
Speaker 1: years down here with the trip, and now he's back
Speaker 1: home in the backyard where he grew up, riding for
Speaker 1: the Oregonian. His piece on the Lebron Beef I thought
Speaker 1: was really good and make some really really fair and
Speaker 1: salient points. I don't understand why Lebron wades in these
Speaker 1: he doesn't have to like at all, but I appreciate
Speaker 1: Bill's time. Bill stops by today courtesy of our good
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