Speaker 1: For the nationally recognized and award winning segment we call
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Speaker 1: Because if you're a company, you have computers, and you
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Speaker 1: scare Welcome back to the Morning Show, Dave hat or
Speaker 1: love talking to you.
Speaker 2: Always good to be here, Brian. I feel the same
Speaker 2: way and helpful. They're doing some good out there.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean also freaking people out. I didn't
Speaker 1: get the article because Joe's not here and it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: but I know what the topic is. Tell us about
Speaker 1: this car exploit that allows you to spy on drivers
Speaker 1: in real time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is just one of many, I would say, Brian.
Speaker 2: You may recall we talked about this briefly the Mozilla
Speaker 2: Privacy non included website, and they're expose of newer model cars.
Speaker 2: I think it was the end of twenty twenty three
Speaker 2: when it came out. But this is pointing out though,
Speaker 2: just reiterate something you and I talk about all the time.
Speaker 2: These so called Internet of things aaka smart devices, your
Speaker 2: smart coffee maker, your smart TV, your thermostat, your doorbell,
Speaker 2: and now your car are vulnerable in the same way
Speaker 2: that your computers are because essentially everything is computer at right,
Speaker 2: It's got computer chips in it, It's got software embedded
Speaker 2: in it that gives it the wow factor and cool
Speaker 2: functionality that people like, including your car. And you may recall, Brian,
Speaker 2: way back we talked about a Wired article where a
Speaker 2: reporter worked with two hackers and they were able to
Speaker 2: remotely control this jeep Jeep Grand Cherokee while the reporter
Speaker 2: was driving. They did all kinds of things to it
Speaker 2: caused a giant recall back in the day. And this
Speaker 2: is another illustration of this where in this case this
Speaker 2: is a third party pioneer head unit, right, Pioneer the
Speaker 2: people that make car stereo and stereo equipment. But they
Speaker 2: the hackers, you know, they're thankfully Brian, there are good
Speaker 2: people out there, white hat hackers, trying to find vulnerabilities
Speaker 2: in these products, inform the manufacturers, get them picked, and frankly,
Speaker 2: inform the public at large about why so many of
Speaker 2: these things are privacy and security dumpster.
Speaker 1: Buyers basically doing the job that the manufacturer should have
Speaker 1: done ahead of time to avoid this stuff from happening
Speaker 1: in the first place. As you always point out, they
Speaker 1: don't think about privacy and security when they're building these devices.
Speaker 1: They just rush to get the device out because it
Speaker 1: does something really cool, but failed to incorporate the requisite
Speaker 1: security measures in there.
Speaker 2: Excellent summary. Well, I was going to say almost the
Speaker 2: exact same thing, which is again, their whole privacy model
Speaker 2: or their whole business model on most of this IoT
Speaker 2: stuff is backwards. It's market share, speed to market, ease
Speaker 2: of use for the consumer, not privacy and security. And
Speaker 2: you know, at one time it would be bad if
Speaker 2: there was a bun them software and you could do
Speaker 2: your job. But now everything is that are connected. You
Speaker 2: have systems that interface with and if it's a manufacturer
Speaker 2: system control your car, which means your vehicle could potentially
Speaker 2: get hacked and be turned into a weapon of some sort.
Speaker 2: You and I have talked about that many times over
Speaker 2: the past, and you know I'm not the only person
Speaker 2: saying this. There are lots of people in the industry
Speaker 2: and security experts that are warning about this kind of thing.
Speaker 2: But in this case, the hackers went to a conference
Speaker 2: and demonstrated that they could chain together various flaws and
Speaker 2: the software inside this thing, and once they had access
Speaker 2: to it. Now, admittedly, you either have to get hotspot
Speaker 2: access to it or you have to have physical access
Speaker 2: to it, so it's not as easy as just and
Speaker 2: over the air exploit to this head unit. But you know,
Speaker 2: if you're take it in for repairs, could it get hacked,
Speaker 2: could someone get in your car, you know, perhaps a
Speaker 2: spurned spouse or lover. I mean, they lay all these
Speaker 2: things down in the article, but the bottom line is
Speaker 2: once it's been hacked, yes, they can basically see who
Speaker 2: you're calling, they can watch you where you're driving, and
Speaker 2: do a variety of other things. Not nearly as bad
Speaker 2: as some of the manufacturer based systems that have been hacked,
Speaker 2: because you know, they interface directly with the systems of
Speaker 2: the car, the brakes, the engine, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, before you go out and you
Speaker 2: change the electronics in your car. Nowadays, you know I'm
Speaker 2: sure Brian, like me, you're old enought to day it's like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm going to upgrade the steario of my car because
Speaker 2: the thing that came from the manufacturer is no good,
Speaker 2: right Delco yeah or something right yeah. And you didn't
Speaker 2: have to worry about these kind of things then, right,
Speaker 2: because you know it was just you know, or.
Speaker 3: Maybe just hold on one second. Explains something to me.
Speaker 1: First off, that people still replace they had units in
Speaker 1: their car. So that's that's the thing. I guess that
Speaker 1: means you bought an older car that doesn't have one
Speaker 1: of those you know, built in wired up to the
Speaker 1: entire system sort of units. You buy a substitute unit
Speaker 1: from Pioneer. It's got a camera in it that records
Speaker 1: the inside of the automobile.
Speaker 2: H some of them do because they want to give
Speaker 2: you a video capability, just like the stuff that's built
Speaker 2: into the car.
Speaker 1: Why in the hell would I want video of me
Speaker 1: driving the car?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, think about it, Brian, I don't know. Again, I'm,
Speaker 2: as you know, against almost all of this.
Speaker 1: No, I know, but I'm just saying, is a fundamental
Speaker 1: proposition why I mean, exterior of the car to record
Speaker 1: accidents or you know, what's going on around you at
Speaker 1: least have some comprehension of why you might want that.
Speaker 3: But you know, picking my nose or eating a.
Speaker 1: Sandwich or doing whatever I'm doing in my car, I
Speaker 1: don't need a video record of anything going on to
Speaker 1: the inside of the car.
Speaker 2: I agree with you wholehearted. Okay, people Still, people still
Speaker 2: replace the head unison cars. You know, you can buy
Speaker 2: these and really advanced ones that sound better. It's getting
Speaker 2: harder though, because you know, again, most of these so
Speaker 2: called infotainment systems in modern cars are deeply integrated in
Speaker 2: the overall folks Now in the car. It's not just
Speaker 2: a radio anymore, right, Oh, all kinds of things. So,
Speaker 2: but they make like replacement kits because to your point,
Speaker 2: you know, the thing is a weird shape. They do
Speaker 2: it by design. It takes up all this weird space.
Speaker 2: You got to have a special kit. But apparently there
Speaker 2: are still companies out there making you know, aftermarket stereo
Speaker 2: systems for your car, and like most of this IoT stuff,
Speaker 2: they have a lot of the same problems. So while
Speaker 2: you know, I would be careful about upgrading your cars
Speaker 2: systems simply because of the impact on the car. You
Speaker 2: have to think about this kind of stuff, and the
Speaker 2: bigger point is Internet of things in general. Moldering dumpster fire.
Speaker 1: Period every week, the reminder and you can't say it
Speaker 1: enough day maybe people will start listening to you don't
Speaker 1: hook your coffee maker up to the internet. Five six
Speaker 1: thirty seven will continue with Dave. Apparently they're sending drones
Speaker 1: to nine to one one calls in New York. You
Speaker 1: dream of a forty okerecy de talk station chech right
Speaker 1: with Dave Hatter. All right, so Eric said, you might
Speaker 1: want to be able to have that camera in your
Speaker 1: car to track your kids driving, which I guess I
Speaker 1: kind of get, but he said recording passengers. He said,
Speaker 1: for like uber lit to people, they may want that,
Speaker 1: but you know, I guess you can just go ahead
Speaker 1: and get one of those independent, non Internet connected cameras
Speaker 1: and just put it on your your your your, your
Speaker 1: windshield and record the passengers in the car.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's not something that I have any concern or care
Speaker 1: about and think it's either it's creepy and stupid. But
Speaker 1: Internet of things is the broader point on that one.
Speaker 1: Moving on, New York Police Department using drones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an interesting story, and I think this
Speaker 2: is unavoidable Brian and probably happening in other places. And
Speaker 2: this particular writer seems to not be a fan of
Speaker 2: the NYPD based on the tone of this article. But again,
Speaker 2: you know, drones get cheaper and cheaper and cheaper and
Speaker 2: more and more capable, whether it's you know, the flight time,
Speaker 2: it's altitude, it's cameras, microphones, et cetera in the drone.
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying I don't I don't like it.
Speaker 2: Don't misunderstand what I'm saying I think, but I think
Speaker 2: it's inevitable that we're headed in this direction because you
Speaker 2: know they mentioned here these particular drones that the NYPP
Speaker 2: are using can go forty five miles an hour. Obviously,
Speaker 2: they can fly in a straight line. So if you
Speaker 2: have some sort of unfolding events, even something like a
Speaker 2: bank robbery, it doesn't have to be a terrorist event
Speaker 2: or something, right, you can get eyes on the scene
Speaker 2: quickly understand what you're up against. But the point they make,
Speaker 2: which I fully agree with, is as these drones get
Speaker 2: smaller and more capable, you know, they can hover high
Speaker 2: enough that you can't hear or see them. Yet with
Speaker 2: their telephoto limbs, they can zoom in on you see
Speaker 2: what's in your hands. This article claims that these particular
Speaker 2: devices the NYPP are using can recognize people and license
Speaker 2: plates from a mile away. And the concern, Yeah, the
Speaker 2: concern they're raising is that, Okay, you send out the
Speaker 2: drone to wherever you know alleged crime is taking place. Well,
Speaker 2: it has the potent with to suck up everything in
Speaker 2: its path along the way. Right, so you know, you're
Speaker 2: just out for a stroll, and you know, now you're
Speaker 2: you're on the drone footage. I know that you know
Speaker 2: you have no expectation of privacy out in public indeed,
Speaker 2: but you know, I have some concerns about this. Again,
Speaker 2: I think it's inevitable, but I think it's important for
Speaker 2: people to understand and there ought to be a public
Speaker 2: conversation about this kind of technology and do we want
Speaker 2: this sort of super invasive technology. You know, you're in
Speaker 2: your backyard, the drone is up there, it's you know,
Speaker 2: hovering around, it's filming you, you know, with parabolic microphones.
Speaker 2: I don't know how far away you could probably listen
Speaker 2: to you. I'm sure pretty far, I know that's the thing.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's interesting to see where all this
Speaker 2: is going. And again, I just don't see away around it,
Speaker 2: because it's only going to get less and less expensive
Speaker 2: to put this sort of technology out there.
Speaker 1: True that that's why I'm a fan of sporting clays
Speaker 1: and skeet and trap shooting.
Speaker 3: Dave, Yeah, me too, you know how to lead.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: The other thing that I think about is that there
Speaker 1: are so many satellites up there, and they have to
Speaker 1: be positioned properly so they don't run into each other
Speaker 1: in outer space. And I don't know how they manage
Speaker 1: that with the thousands and thousands of satellites. But I'm
Speaker 1: thinking of, you know, someday in the very near future,
Speaker 1: all these drones are flying around, and then we have
Speaker 1: these individual car sized drones and fly people around in
Speaker 1: drone taxis. You know, at some point we're gonna have
Speaker 1: a lot of mid air accidents and collisions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you have to be super confident in
Speaker 2: the technology for these things to avoid each other. And
Speaker 2: you know, obviously we don't have enormous amount of these
Speaker 2: things now, but I think over time, you're just going
Speaker 2: to see more and more of it. And to your point, Brian,
Speaker 2: larger ones, air taxis that sort of thing. As far
Speaker 2: festered as that may sound, I think it's coming. There
Speaker 2: are already companies claiming to be able to do this. Now.
Speaker 2: I'd be the first to say, not a chance I'll
Speaker 2: ride in any of these things anytime soon, because I
Speaker 2: don't trust the software and cars rolling on the ground,
Speaker 2: much less something that's flying me around. But you know,
Speaker 2: I believe certainly within our lifetime you're going to see
Speaker 2: a lot more of these things. And you know there
Speaker 2: are instances where these things fail, fall out of the sky,
Speaker 2: hit something, hits somebody. Again, I'm not too too worried
Speaker 2: about that. But when you think about this from a
Speaker 2: surveillance perspective, and you know you mentioned the satellite, right,
Speaker 2: we know there have been satellites in the sky that
Speaker 2: can you know, read something in your hand and that
Speaker 2: sort of thing for a long time. But to your point,
Speaker 2: they have to be positioned. They only fly over every
Speaker 2: so often, or they're stuck in one place. You know,
Speaker 2: this gives you, This gives a government entity the capability
Speaker 2: for a relatively small amount of money to surveil you
Speaker 2: or anything they want. Pretty much any time they want,
Speaker 2: for as long as they want. And you know this
Speaker 2: is going to be abused, Brian. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 2: We've seen We've seen examples of companies like ADP where
Speaker 2: their technicians go in and you know, set up cameras
Speaker 2: to film attractive women in their house. I mean, they're
Speaker 2: well documented. People have gone to jail over there.
Speaker 1: Well, look, you know that we know that the NSA
Speaker 1: is soaking up and basically soaking up every piece of data, email,
Speaker 1: text message that anybody in the United States or anywhere
Speaker 1: else in the world sends. So if our own government's
Speaker 1: doing it, you know, nefarious actors are going to take
Speaker 1: hold of this technology into for nefarious purposes. It's just
Speaker 1: it's so obvious. Oh well, we live in a frightening
Speaker 1: or Wellian world day. You prove it every single week.
Speaker 2: But again, and I mean I think all at this point,
Speaker 2: all you can really do is be aware, you know,
Speaker 2: act accordingly, and then you know, try to raise awareness
Speaker 2: with other people and talk to your legislators and you know,
Speaker 2: see what you can do to try to keep as
Speaker 2: much of his teenie in the bottle as possible.
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly. We'll continue coming up next.
Speaker 1: Latest car technology is starting to drive people nuts. One
Speaker 1: more Dave Hatters Tech Friday six fifty one. It's five
Speaker 1: care CD talk station in trust it dot com where
Speaker 1: you find Dave Hatter and his crew for your business
Speaker 1: computer needs. And I'm sure you probably have thanks for
Speaker 1: sponsoring the segment day. I've always enjoyed talking, will you
Speaker 1: about it? Let's find out what's driving people nuts with
Speaker 1: the latest car technology.
Speaker 2: Yeah, back to cars. And it's interesting because then in
Speaker 2: one of the articles talking about this, they have another
Speaker 2: article about how your modern car is spying on you
Speaker 2: and you don't know it. Kind of back to our
Speaker 2: first segment, and I encourage people go out and check
Speaker 2: out privacy not included in particular exposity on modern cars.
Speaker 2: But this is all about and I get this because
Speaker 2: I have a newer car. It's like at twenty eighteen,
Speaker 2: and my wife has a newer car, it's like at
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, and you know, almost everything in it is
Speaker 2: no longer mechanical, right, everything is electronic. You've got to
Speaker 2: go to the entertainment screen, or you've got some kind
Speaker 2: of weird control that's not very precise, versus just I
Speaker 2: want to I just want to press the button and
Speaker 2: go to a certain channel, or I want to turn
Speaker 2: on the air conditioning or turn off the air conditioning
Speaker 2: without having to go through fifteen screens to figure out
Speaker 2: how to do it right. And that's one of the things,
Speaker 2: one of the things they point out. It's not only
Speaker 2: irritating for people, because.
Speaker 3: A lot of you, I agree with this, it's dangerous.
Speaker 2: Or increasingly it's not only less intuitive. Yes, it's dangerous
Speaker 2: because you have to take your eyes off the road. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I hit a button, then you got to go to
Speaker 2: another button.
Speaker 1: Dave, think about this. It's illegal to use your cell
Speaker 1: phone in the state of Ohio Wi.
Speaker 3: You're driving.
Speaker 1: And yet yeah, and they got that giant screen which
Speaker 1: you have to use and operate to navigate through, to
Speaker 1: deal with really literally anything you want to do in
Speaker 1: the car. How Now you drive down the road and
Speaker 1: just your air cognition, you're like, oh, what screen do
Speaker 1: I need? And you're staring down at that your your
Speaker 1: your your your eyes aren't on the road.
Speaker 3: It's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that's a pro recent study, driver's feelings on
Speaker 2: the intuitiveness of car controls fell from seventy nine percent
Speaker 2: and twenty fifteen, when you've had a lot less of
Speaker 2: the text and entertainment and digital buttons and so forth,
Speaker 2: to fifty six percent and twenty twenty four. Honestly, I'm
Speaker 2: surprised it's that high because you know, I can't tell
Speaker 2: you them because I've runted a car that I'm not
Speaker 2: familiar with, and then I have no idea what I'm doing, right,
Speaker 2: and unlike the old school. Again, here's a button, it
Speaker 2: turns on the air conditioning. Here's a button that turns
Speaker 2: on the deeproster. You know, some cars still have some
Speaker 2: combination of that, but a lot of it is increasingly digital.
Speaker 2: And I get it. But also I think a part
Speaker 2: of the people overlook when they think about these things.
Speaker 2: All of this tech is very expensive when it goes bad.
Speaker 2: Versus I just need to replace a switch that opens
Speaker 2: and closes a circuit to turn on the air conditioning
Speaker 2: or whatever. You know, if I got to replace the
Speaker 2: whole entertainment system, very expensive. And you know, I think
Speaker 2: one of the greatest innovations in cars in the last
Speaker 2: several decades or backup cameras, right, yeah, backup cameras super helpful.
Speaker 2: Reduces a lot of danger but you know, when those
Speaker 2: things go bad, and now cars have sensors all around them,
Speaker 2: those things can be extremely expensive to replace when they
Speaker 2: go bad, So you're not only adding to the cost
Speaker 2: of the car, you're adding to the maintenance of the car.
Speaker 2: And again, I understand the benefit of some of these things,
Speaker 2: but I agree wholeheartedly with this article that most modern
Speaker 2: cars are a lot less intuitive in the way you
Speaker 2: operate them. And I agree with your point, Brian, that
Speaker 2: it's it's dangerous to have to constantly keep taking your
Speaker 2: eyes off the road to go three screens in to
Speaker 2: figure out how to change something you want to change
Speaker 2: about the environment or the behavior of the car. I
Speaker 2: find it very frustrating person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you all day long.
Speaker 1: And I hate to even admit this out loud, but
Speaker 1: since we gave our son the old Honda, we had
Speaker 1: to replace. We needed a larger vehicle because we have dogs,
Speaker 1: we have a yard, and you have to deal so anyway,
Speaker 1: we got a modern used vehicle and it's got one
Speaker 1: of those systems in it. And when they were trying
Speaker 1: to upsell us on the extended warranty and was really
Speaker 1: expensive for the extended warranty, the guy said, well, you know,
Speaker 1: something goes wrong with that. You know that screen, that
Speaker 1: infotainment system that's connected litterally everything. It's more expensive to
Speaker 1: fix that than it is then replacing the engine in
Speaker 1: the car.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is crazy.
Speaker 1: That was his you know, his upsell. You know it's like,
Speaker 1: well it's still under warranty, and how often this happens. Well,
Speaker 1: basically they don't have any problems with it, so anyway,
Speaker 1: it's just it's scary stuff. I mean, I hate having
Speaker 1: one of those cars that's literally recording everything. And you know,
Speaker 1: to your point about the car spying on you, that
Speaker 1: information can be purchased by insurance companies.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes it can. In fact, you know, that was
Speaker 2: another recent scandal. You may recall we talked about it briefly.
Speaker 2: GM had to come off. They were essentially selling the
Speaker 2: data collected from people's cars to insurance companies, and people
Speaker 2: were getting premium increases and canceled without voluntarily signing up.
Speaker 2: It's one thing, like the progressive thing, right, you get it,
Speaker 2: you pluge it into your car. You're volunteering to do
Speaker 2: that because you know your partents are going to get
Speaker 2: better raids. It's another thing and they talk about that
Speaker 2: and that privacy not included thing. I keep referencing about
Speaker 2: how these cars are collecting all this data and potentially
Speaker 2: selling it to third parties, including your insurance company, who
Speaker 2: might decide you're not a good sable risk based on
Speaker 2: the driving it's coming from your car. So things to
Speaker 2: think about as we head into this increasingly dystopian world
Speaker 2: where everything has sensors in it, and everything wants to
Speaker 2: track you if you'll let it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just so scary. Anyway, important information, know and
Speaker 1: think about. Dave Hatter. I always appreciate you bringing it
Speaker 1: to our attention every week here in the fifty five
Speaker 1: Caresy Morning Show. Look forward to next Friday in another
Speaker 1: edition of Tech Friday with Dave Hatter, again brought to
Speaker 1: you by intrust it dot com. Get in touch with
Speaker 1: Dave and the team at interust it dot com. Take care, Dave,
Speaker 1: Thank you again. Have a wonderful weekend, and I won't
Speaker 1: be around next week. I'm taking all week next off,
Speaker 1: so I think if you're doing the segment, you'll be
Speaker 1: doing it with Kevin Gordon next Friday.
Speaker 2: All right, Well, Brian, you enjoy your time off and
Speaker 2: I want God to chat with you when you're back.
Speaker 1: Thanks brother, Take care Man six fifty seven and fifty
Speaker 1: five care City Talk Station. We're in here from Troy Day.
Speaker 1: The program is Trust and Valor and it's a program
Speaker 1: for veterans and first responders. Should be really interesting. Plus
Speaker 1: the Daniel Davis Deep Dive Special Friday editions since we
Speaker 1: didn't get him on Tuesday.
Speaker 3: That'll take place at seven thirty. I'll be right back