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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna talk next about some high tech findings and

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<v Speaker 1>some forgeries from some ancient documents. So we're gonna talk

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<v Speaker 1>about this really cool guy named Mike Langlois. I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>I said that wrong, Mike, and I'm terribly sorry about that.

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<v Speaker 1>But this guy, Okay, so it's worth pointing out. This

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<v Speaker 1>guy has like, I don't know, what was it, like

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<v Speaker 1>seven degrees, you guys, in all kinds of different stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this man has been studying the Dead Sea scrolls. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure a lot of our audience is familiar, but

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<v Speaker 1>for those that aren't familiar, I'll give just a quick

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<v Speaker 1>little rundown, which is a while ago, there was this

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<v Speaker 1>cave and it had all these like really old documents

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<v Speaker 1>in it that had to do with like the Bible

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<v Speaker 1>and stuff, and we didn't know about those for a

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<v Speaker 1>really really long time, and then we found them, and

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<v Speaker 1>then we've been searching through them and there's been a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of really interesting information in there. Obviously, there is

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<v Speaker 1>a probably more technical way to say all that, but

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<v Speaker 1>that gets us up to speed for the most part.

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<v Speaker 1>But one of the really really cool things that he

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<v Speaker 1>is doing is he is using some high tech stuff

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of scan over these documents and that has

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<v Speaker 1>given us a lot of really really cool information. So

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to go through all of that, but

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<v Speaker 1>before I pass it off to Richard, I just want

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<v Speaker 1>to point out that when I started reading this, I

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<v Speaker 1>thought it was really cool because very early on I

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<v Speaker 1>noticed that one of the things that Michael had published

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<v Speaker 1>on also one of those publishers is a man by

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<v Speaker 1>the name of doctor Kip Davis aka doctor Kill. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you don't know who this guy is, he is

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<v Speaker 1>a dead Sea Scroll scholar. He's been hanging out, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>with all kinds of incredible people, just debunking all kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of things, and I just thought that was really cool

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<v Speaker 1>because I've seen a lot of his stuff that I

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<v Speaker 1>enjoyed the crap out of it. And anyway, I will

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<v Speaker 1>stop talking so that we can have some more technical

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<v Speaker 1>discussion on this from our resident professor, Richard. What do

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<v Speaker 1>you got for it?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I was going to say, an active and still

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<v Speaker 2>professional musician, a PhD in obscure history reaches corpus linguistics

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<v Speaker 2>and programming and language analysis, good looking, talented, sharp dressed.

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<v Speaker 2>Enough about me, this guy's pretty cool. I really like him.

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<v Speaker 2>I suspect we get on quite well, should we meet.

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<v Speaker 2>I've the technology that's coming into the field of things

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<v Speaker 2>like textual analysis. I was back in the day. I

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<v Speaker 2>was doing very very very simple corpus linguistics, where I

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<v Speaker 2>put a Python three program together that was kind of shoddy,

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<v Speaker 2>and it will pick out certain words from certain texts

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<v Speaker 2>from about twenty three thousand books, which was great because

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<v Speaker 2>once upon a time you do a history degree by

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<v Speaker 2>sitting in a cellar for three years reading things very slowly.

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<v Speaker 2>But that amazed me at the time that I could

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<v Speaker 2>do that. But this, this isn't a whole of the level.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the satellites that are mapping Egypt and the

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<v Speaker 2>Amazon and finding cities level of stuff. And it's important,

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<v Speaker 2>I think, to know which historical documents are real which

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<v Speaker 2>ones aren't, because there are lots and lots of arguments

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<v Speaker 2>out there amongst historians and archeologists this is real and

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<v Speaker 2>that isn't. And it's usually based on stuff that is

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<v Speaker 2>more subjective than they would admit, like certain forms of paleography.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that little curly r means it's from the first century,

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<v Speaker 2>And you're like, yeah, but does it though? And someone

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<v Speaker 2>else comes along to say no, no, no, no, it's

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<v Speaker 2>from the second century, whereas this what he's doing, the

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<v Speaker 2>kind of analysis is no, no, that curly ar is

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<v Speaker 2>definitely from the first center. I can prove it. Look

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<v Speaker 2>at the readout on my system, and I just find

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<v Speaker 2>that brilliant. It's going to make my life easier because

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have to whenever I'm doing anything all that,

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<v Speaker 2>don't have to look at a text and go, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>who actually wrote this? And it's going to make other

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<v Speaker 2>peoples easier in the field. And it's so important to

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<v Speaker 2>studying religious texts because so often you get the latest

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<v Speaker 2>this is the real Bible? Well is it again? You

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<v Speaker 2>need to go and see this guy's work and see

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<v Speaker 2>if you're looking at the right thing. It's ground it's

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<v Speaker 2>groundbreaking stuff. And I think not just religious text but

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<v Speaker 2>all texts need this kind of tech and it's only

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<v Speaker 2>going to get better. But you also needs someone like

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<v Speaker 2>him who is fluent in all these areas to pull

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<v Speaker 2>it together. And there's another area that I'm interested in,

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<v Speaker 2>which is sort of not just focusing on one subject.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I'm a bit of a neglector. I can't focus

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<v Speaker 2>on one thing at a time. I can't focus on

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm just far too fidgety. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>he sounds like he's the same. He's like, yeah, I've

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<v Speaker 2>done that. I need to bring this into it. And

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<v Speaker 2>I've done that. I need to bring this into it,

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<v Speaker 2>so let's study it. And without that, I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>you can have this kind of innovation. You need people

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<v Speaker 2>weirdos like us who are multidisciplinary and so what what

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<v Speaker 2>subject do you do? And like him like me or

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<v Speaker 2>go ah, you need to sit down and it's he's great.

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<v Speaker 2>I think he's fantastic and I think his results are fantastic,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think it's bodes so well for this kind

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<v Speaker 2>of research. I you can tell I'm a little excited

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<v Speaker 2>about this kind of It's kind of in my wheelhouse

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<v Speaker 2>just a bit.

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<v Speaker 1>It is pretty cool stuff. Yeah it is, Helen. What

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<v Speaker 1>did you think about this, this all around awesome guy.

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<v Speaker 3>I have feelings because, as a woman that is married

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<v Speaker 3>to an intelligent, well read basis, part of my brain

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<v Speaker 3>was like this part this is Megan Helen A little

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<v Speaker 3>oh sorry, sorry, I mean, you know, happy, happy and smart.

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<v Speaker 3>I love happy and smart man. Sorry, so, but this

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<v Speaker 3>is the type of shit I love where someone starts

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<v Speaker 3>on because he was a person of faith, the person

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<v Speaker 3>of faith, and he just started following the evidence and

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<v Speaker 3>he was was and he, like many of us that

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<v Speaker 3>were in that been in person of faith, had tooken

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<v Speaker 3>the Dead Sea scrolls for gospel. You know that they

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<v Speaker 3>were legitimate, and then by using all the vaiable scientific technologies,

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<v Speaker 3>bam so many forgeries. And this is helping people that

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<v Speaker 3>have certain documents and their private collections and they're finding

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<v Speaker 3>out that they were frauded. They're re examining the pieces

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<v Speaker 3>that are in museums to go is this actually authentic?

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<v Speaker 3>And I just find this so fascinating the way that

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<v Speaker 3>modern technology and these scientific discoveries are reconstructing not only

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<v Speaker 3>how we look at nature, but how our faiths and

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<v Speaker 3>mythologies have developed over time and giving this reconstruction of

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<v Speaker 3>how things are, which I think is really fascinating because

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<v Speaker 3>the thing is, though it's kind of my feeling on it,

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<v Speaker 3>the people that lived in those ancient times and followed

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<v Speaker 3>certain myths and part of the culture and the religion,

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<v Speaker 3>it shaped them who they were for that culture. And

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<v Speaker 3>if someone comes around and wants to rewrite their history

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<v Speaker 3>and we're looking back on on them our time to

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<v Speaker 3>where we got. Now we have to adjust with that

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<v Speaker 3>new information and if we and I can't help but

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<v Speaker 3>think that there's gonna be some people, just like with

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<v Speaker 3>a Shot of Turn when that was proved to be

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<v Speaker 3>a fake, that they're going to bury their heads in

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<v Speaker 3>the sand and they're gonna put their fears in.

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<v Speaker 1>Their ears, and like.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm hearing you, I want to believe what I want

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<v Speaker 3>to believe, and that's the thing we're going to see again,

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<v Speaker 3>even as this comes out where he's saying, like, I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not saying that some of the texts is for our forgeries.

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<v Speaker 3>There is some legitimate history here, but we have to

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<v Speaker 3>separate it all from what it's authentic versus what people

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<v Speaker 3>kind of threw in over time. If you especially if

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<v Speaker 3>you're a believer, because as a believer, wouldn't you want

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<v Speaker 3>to know the exact truth of your faith?

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<v Speaker 1>Just saying yep, And I think that that brings me

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<v Speaker 1>to one of the quotes that I really loved from him.

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<v Speaker 1>It says, but with forgeries, if you don't pay attention

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<v Speaker 1>and you think they are authentic, then they become part

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<v Speaker 1>of the data set you use to reconstruct the history

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<v Speaker 1>of the Bible. The entire theory is then based on

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<v Speaker 1>data that is false. And I just I love that

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<v Speaker 1>because I think I think that's so powerful. Again, like

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<v Speaker 1>you pointed out, Helen, he this is a man who

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<v Speaker 1>who is a believer. This is a guy that does

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<v Speaker 1>have faith. He's not an atheist, He's not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>an anti theist, none of that. This is somebody that

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<v Speaker 1>truly believes and is wanting the most accurate information because,

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<v Speaker 1>like we always say around here, the more true information

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<v Speaker 1>you have, the better you can understand things, and the

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<v Speaker 1>better decisions you can make and stuff. And like both

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<v Speaker 1>of you pointed out, I think this is just amazing

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<v Speaker 1>because even as somebody who is not religious, it is

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<v Speaker 1>so fascinating to understand the nuances of these cultures better. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>And just just because I thought this was funny, I

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<v Speaker 1>I thought there was a list at one point. And

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, folks, this article is amazing. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>it comes from the Smithsonian magazine. It is It is

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<v Speaker 1>super duper in depth. And every single time we have

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<v Speaker 1>an episode of nonprofits, we always encourage you to read stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to double triple down on this article because

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<v Speaker 1>you will learn quite a lot. But at one point,

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<v Speaker 1>there's there's one section where it talks about a handful

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<v Speaker 1>of the different places that had to admit that they

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<v Speaker 1>had forgeries. Okay, so we've got a Zuza Pacific University

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<v Speaker 1>in southern California, We've got a Southwestern Baptist Theological seminary,

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<v Speaker 1>We've got the Museum of the Bible in Washington, DC

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<v Speaker 1>had to announce that its entire collection, entire collection was forgeries.

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<v Speaker 1>That's amazing and we only really have that information because

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<v Speaker 1>of this scholarship, right, I mean, it is so freaking

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<v Speaker 1>cool to me that we were able to discover so

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<v Speaker 1>much and on I'm just I'm excited. I want more

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<v Speaker 1>information to come out on this, you know it. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know what next cool discoveries will be made, but

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<v Speaker 1>I am I am going to say there are probably

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<v Speaker 1>going to be a heck of a lot still to come. Richard,

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<v Speaker 1>your thoughts, I think, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And what I also like is when you find the

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<v Speaker 2>forgery like this, sometimes there'll be a modern, fairly modern forgery,

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<v Speaker 2>but sometimes they won't be. There'll be an addition or

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<v Speaker 2>a change, or a forgery that was done five hundred,

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<v Speaker 2>one thousand, and fifteen hundred years ago. And that's a

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<v Speaker 2>whole new area of study. Who forged you? Why did

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<v Speaker 2>they forward? Where did they come from? How did that

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<v Speaker 2>map onto their culture?

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<v Speaker 3>Later on?

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<v Speaker 2>Are they doing it to map it onto their culture?

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<v Speaker 2>What's going on there? This whole PhDs to be written

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<v Speaker 2>in just that before you get to the new reading

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<v Speaker 2>of the text themselves. And so that's why I love

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<v Speaker 2>this kind of thing. I love extra textural analysis is

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<v Speaker 2>a wonderful thing. I remember once buckered my university days.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember going to Trinity College and finding a book

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<v Speaker 2>and open in it and there was a page folded

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<v Speaker 2>though it was a very very old book, and I

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<v Speaker 2>know that the person who folded that page was a

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<v Speaker 2>young lad called Isaac Newton. And I remember going, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>and suddenly the guy who read the book was as

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<v Speaker 2>important as the book. So that kind of stuff, it

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<v Speaker 2>really fascinates me, this history of this guy who used

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<v Speaker 2>to go and fold all the pages over so he

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<v Speaker 2>could find certain words in them, being Isaac, it's great.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a great way to go and having something more concrete.

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<v Speaker 2>And yes he's a person of faith. But here's a

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<v Speaker 2>weird thing. Not everybody who's religious is a bibiolity. Not

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<v Speaker 2>everyone who's religious, absolutely, you know, doesn't want to know

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<v Speaker 2>the truth. You know, it could be argued, and this

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<v Speaker 2>is a longer conversation, but it could be argued that

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<v Speaker 2>the reason we have empiricism is because a bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>religious people when you know that America continent, well, Aristotle

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<v Speaker 2>in the Bible didn't mean it, which means we've got

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<v Speaker 2>a problem with our brain. So we need to work

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<v Speaker 2>out a way of seeing the truth of God in

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<v Speaker 2>nature without using our brains and without reading that book.

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<v Speaker 2>So do we do it? Well, we'll test things and

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<v Speaker 2>see if it matches a prediction. And that's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>your Francis Baker than people did that. There are them

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<v Speaker 2>out there. It's amazing. There's a world of religious, rational

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<v Speaker 2>people that's kind of all weird things they but there

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<v Speaker 2>are and he's a great example of that. Yeah, he's

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<v Speaker 2>a person of faith, but he wants to know what

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<v Speaker 2>the truth of these things. He wants to get to

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<v Speaker 2>the bottom of it. And yes there's one little area

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<v Speaker 2>that he's kind of compartmentalizing, but he's a I don't

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<v Speaker 2>mind that so long as he's true to the science

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<v Speaker 2>and he doesn't try and comment to me or anything

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<v Speaker 2>or force his beliefs and everybody else. So it's great.

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<v Speaker 2>It's great as a person whose background is for primarily history. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>as you can see, I don't care at all, not bothered.

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<v Speaker 3>I just love what you said though about like the

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<v Speaker 3>Isaac Unon thing, like knowing he had full Like there's

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<v Speaker 3>something very like I don't I'm using this term, but

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<v Speaker 3>I mean like magical, but I don't mean magical, but

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<v Speaker 3>there's just something about that idea that like generations before

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<v Speaker 3>us had these really incredible ideas, uh, and that brought

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<v Speaker 3>us into modern society. Like it gives me chills, Like

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<v Speaker 3>that's like, that's like my jammy jam jams because because

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<v Speaker 3>I think as secularists and atheist, because we know life

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<v Speaker 3>is finite, we somehow get a little cynical. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think it we need to take a moment as

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<v Speaker 3>as as human beings to kind of take a step

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<v Speaker 3>back and go, you know what, we got here because

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<v Speaker 3>of people before us that had good ideas and they

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<v Speaker 3>wanted to push humans forward and society forward and culture forward,

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<v Speaker 3>and let let like Okay, I'm gonna call him leglass

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<v Speaker 3>because it has the one I keep saying in my head.

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<v Speaker 3>Fuck tolkn okay, it's just embedded in there. But he

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<v Speaker 3>is one of these people as a scholar and someone

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<v Speaker 3>that was going to follow the evidence that what he did,

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<v Speaker 3>And I think that's I think that's really cool. Like

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<v Speaker 3>I just even like, you know, we will have we

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<v Speaker 3>can have a discussion about faith. But like if I

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<v Speaker 3>could be in his lab and watch his work like

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<v Speaker 3>I might, I would have like a big brain orgasm,

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<v Speaker 3>Like I get really impressed. So, yeah, this type of

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<v Speaker 3>stuff that I love.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, honestly, there's there's just so many cool things. Like seriously,

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<v Speaker 1>like a third of the a third of this whole

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<v Speaker 1>article I think is just talking about how cool of

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<v Speaker 1>a duty is, which is like true.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like true.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like every single time I read the next thing,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, damn, Mike, like chill, like save something for

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of us, you know, like calm down, man, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm on the steak. You mount and jam with him.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, It's like you have a ten minute jam session

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<v Speaker 1>and then just be like yeah, so what do you

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<v Speaker 1>think about the mesha stele A, Like what are your

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<v Speaker 1>thoughts on that? Where where did you go with the Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean honestly, this is this is some incredible, incredible

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<v Speaker 1>stuff to me, and this is where I love to

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<v Speaker 1>direct my attention. You know, I don't, I don't. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't care so much for what the internet, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the apologist, the the shit they say, just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>teasing where we're going next from here. But these are

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<v Speaker 1>the type of people that I love listening to, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Somebody like Dale C. Allison, you know, just a true scholar,

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<v Speaker 1>a believer, yes, but somebody that that does the work

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<v Speaker 1>and looks at it critically and is willing to provide

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<v Speaker 1>their sources, you know, give you the evidence so that

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<v Speaker 1>you can see it too, And isn't just coming up

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<v Speaker 1>with these wild fanciful conclusions and so forth just because

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<v Speaker 1>they want to. Like Richard said, yeah, you're gonna notice

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<v Speaker 1>that there seems to be kind of a piece of

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<v Speaker 1>it where they just kind of compartmentalize the stuff. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's fine.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think that that destroys the scholarship in any way,

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<v Speaker 1>shape or form. Because of the fact that we are

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<v Speaker 1>going about this in a rigorous method and we do

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<v Speaker 1>have that data to back it up, right, we can

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<v Speaker 1>make the predictions, we can find those freaking things when

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<v Speaker 1>we go look for them. That's huge. And just the

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<v Speaker 1>more that we do on that, the more we are

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<v Speaker 1>gonna understand this. And I really do believe that as

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<v Speaker 1>we present more and more of this information to the

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<v Speaker 1>average believer, I think they're going to start shifting a

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<v Speaker 1>little in their world. I think this stuff really takes

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<v Speaker 1>hold for a lot of people. I can't tell you

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<v Speaker 1>how many friends of mine right that are that are

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<v Speaker 1>atheist or agnostic now, And and they would say to

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<v Speaker 1>me things like, yeah, it's because I thought all of

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<v Speaker 1>this history stuff was true, that I was such a

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<v Speaker 1>big believer, and then as I started looking into it

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<v Speaker 1>and I found out, hey, some of this doesn't really

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<v Speaker 1>match up with a historical timeline that really that really

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<v Speaker 1>was the first crack. I love it, honestly, and and again,

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<v Speaker 1>even if even if it doesn't cause a mass amount

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<v Speaker 1>of people to step away from their faith, I just

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<v Speaker 1>love the fact that we do have, you know, critical

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<v Speaker 1>scholarship on something that for so long we we really

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have, especially not at this level. So again, just hardcore,

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<v Speaker 1>hardcore want to suggest to everybody out there, read this.

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<v Speaker 3>It is so fascinating. Yeah, it's it's so good.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, truly, it's it's and again it's like really

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<v Speaker 4>it's kind of just worth it just to hear about Michael,

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<v Speaker 4>like just hear all the cool stuff that he does,

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<v Speaker 4>like not even the not even the tech stuff with

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<v Speaker 4>the Dead Sea scrolls.

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<v Speaker 3>But anyway, apparently he's a snappy dresser.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's exciting.

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<v Speaker 1>He probably beats me for for the best hair award.

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<v Speaker 1>I really I don't feel like I know. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like I feel bad about having to get it up,

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<v Speaker 1>but game got a record.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, you and j Mike are just competing for

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<v Speaker 3>best hair at this point, so.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we're both losing in the category. That's all right,

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<v Speaker 1>Well we'll get there one of these things. But any

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<v Speaker 1>other thoughts y'all before before we go on and round

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<v Speaker 1>out this with a little bit of our our old

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<v Speaker 1>friend Helen or Richard.

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<v Speaker 2>The only thought to me is actually, in some way

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<v Speaker 2>is a positive thing having someone of faith doing this

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<v Speaker 2>kind of research, because there's one criticism that can be

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<v Speaker 2>taken away from the theist, which is you're just an atheist.

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<v Speaker 2>You would say that, we can't say that to him.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, good point, good point, Helen.

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<v Speaker 3>Anything else? Yeah, And like I'm just going to reiterate

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<v Speaker 3>I said four, Like, I love the fact that he

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<v Speaker 3>just followed the evidence. You know, he was and the

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<v Speaker 3>person of faith and he wanted to know because of

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<v Speaker 3>that more about his faith. And he didn't stop looking.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think that's wonderful. Like I like, i I'm like, oh, humanity, yay,

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<v Speaker 3>good feeling. So I just think it's fantastic because this

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<v Speaker 3>article is a trip and so and that gives me

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<v Speaker 3>hope from humanity like people like him, like he's a

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<v Speaker 3>person of faith, that he's doing he's doing the God's work.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, That is right.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and again, seriously, I'll read this, read this article,

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<v Speaker 4>take the time.

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<v Speaker 1>It is super worth it. But you know, unfortunately, as happens,

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<v Speaker 1>we have to eventually say goodbye, and we're getting close

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<v Speaker 1>to that time. But before we do, let me tell

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<v Speaker 1>all of you wonderful people out there another great way

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<v Speaker 1>you can support us here on the nonprofits. You can

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<v Speaker 1>become a member of the channel for as little as

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<v Speaker 1>ninety nine cents a month. All you got to do

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<v Speaker 1>is click the join button below the video, and this

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<v Speaker 1>will give you access to special chat emojis. I have

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<v Speaker 1>been told that if we get more members we can

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<v Speaker 1>get more emojis. So if you're out there right now

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<v Speaker 1>and you're watching us live and you are a member,

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<v Speaker 1>just go ahead and just throw all those emojis in

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<v Speaker 1>chat and make everybody else jealous. And again, if you

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<v Speaker 1>do feel that jealousy, it's fine, we understand, but just

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<v Speaker 1>join and then you won't be jealousy