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Speaker 1: Tanta, and so we're able to finally get material of

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it from this like explorer that went to the island

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and got it and found out it is nested within Cryptanta.

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So we've been working on a paper to re characterize

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it as a cryptantha from Neeso Carrion.

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Speaker 2: This is this is Mike Simpson's popcorn flower thing. Yeah

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seeah yeah, wait an island? How how far off the

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coast of Chili?

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Speaker 1: Oh it's in the paper. It's hundreds of miles off

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of the.

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Speaker 2: Way the fuck out there?

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Speaker 1: God damn, yeah, it's really far.

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Speaker 2: This is part of that God, what is that island?

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There's where where is dendrosceris? You know that weird that

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weird ask the that like giant chickory? Yeah, oh god,

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I just forget the name of it. What is it?

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That's what's the island off the coat? Let me look

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this up.

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Speaker 1: This one's on This one's on is Lesian Ambrosio. So

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it's nine hundred kilometers.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, can you imagine the kinds of wild

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ship that like if that's out there too? What else?

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Speaker 1: I know, it's so crazy. It's it's a weird one,

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but it's really cool that it that it's in Captantha,

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so that's really exciting. Johnson was the one that originally

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transferred it from helotropium to aneso carium in nineteen twenty seven,

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So now we're answering it.

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Speaker 2: To Captanthasla's ventures. What is I wonder if it's something?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's in there, Yeah it is. It's a group

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of islands yet.

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Speaker 2: God, also everything out there basically got probably got there

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from bird or debris rift at some point since the

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island's inception. How I wonder how old it is too.

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It's probably volcanic, I assume, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it is the same way I'm looking and

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double checking. Yeah, just yeah, that's the same. It's a

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the larger of the two that this one's on on.

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Speaker 2: What's the island? Where then Droceros is from? God? Damn it?

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You know this is I'm already like getting pre Senile.

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I'm only in my early forties. Oh, Robinson Crusoe, That's right.

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Wasn't Robinson Cruz? Wasn't that a book? Wasn't What is Robinson?

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What is it?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: If it's done in Chile, why is it named Robinson Crusoe?

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I don't get Oh Wan Fernandez there you go. Yeah,

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the Wan Fernandez Islands. That's another cool biogy. I guess

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you can go out there. I want to go out

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there anyway. Sorry, sorry, what are you gonna say? I'm sorry,

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I'm so sorry for no.

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Speaker 1: No, that day is less Ambroso I think it's really

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hard to get out there. I'm not sure. I think

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we'd get like special permission.

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Speaker 2: I knew this God, I knew this guy, Frank Callahan.

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I don't know if he's still alive. He was a

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crazy old bastard, but in a cool way. He had

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that kind of like Hunter S. Thompson vibe about him,

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and he was obsessed with connifers. He lived in He

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lived in gold something, Oregon, I forget the name of it,

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but this tiny little cutty town in the Klamath Mountains

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on the Oregon side where it's like super dry and

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the summer, you know, and it's all serpentine around there.

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And he hired some fucking Mexican fisherman to take him

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out to Guadalaloupe Island, like in the seventies or eighties,

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to collect seed of all this stuff. And he got

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I think he got seed to that Guadalupe cypress and

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a bunch of other side. I mean the goats were

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still there, and then before they removed the goats, the

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goats had destroyed everything and all it was left was

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a soil sea bank. But he got a I guess

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he got seed to that cypress where it was probably

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growing on cliffs or something. He was a character, man.

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I remember, yeah, God, I remember, like he took me

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out to look at some baker cypress, or look for

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some baker cypress that was near O'Brien, Oregon, some long

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lost stand. We never found it, but it was. But

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I spent the day with this guy and he was crazy.

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He was like this old Haggard died in the wool,

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you know. Fucking uh it's like southern Oregon plant dude.

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And yeah it was. It was a fucking experience, this experience.

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This was like twenty eleven or something. Anyway, I digress anyway,

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So doctor Mackenzie Maybury, welcome to the Crime Pace Upton.

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I'm recording, by the way too, I snucked in there.

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That was a cool story about about Chile. But doctor

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Mackenzie Maybray, who's studying brass of Kayley's and recently got

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back from the Mibia where you got to see I'm

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so jealous Tigano fighting. What is the species, Karra? What

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is it?

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Speaker 1: The car?

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Speaker 2: Sense?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the Taigano fighting car and sunsay. I think I.

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Speaker 2: Would think, oh God, what is this? You know? Thank

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God for the Internet. Yeah, Cara sense k A R

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A s E N s e. Oh there's my photo

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from the Namibia the wind hook herbarium. How do you

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pronounce wind hook?

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Speaker 1: Is that like a be ben hook?

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Speaker 2: Wind hook? Oh, it's like a German huh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's from.

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Speaker 2: When the Crouch colonized Namibia and then they got thrown out.

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Later you could say crowd. It's fine, it's it's like

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it's an Anglo anyways. But okay, that aside. So when

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Namibia was really cool, it seemed a lot more chill

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to me than South Africa, which still has you know,

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I mean apartheid. Maybe I got its independence before apartheid

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was ended, which was in it. That's when na maybe

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I got its independence.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh wow, I.

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Speaker 2: Thought it was earlier than that, but they had a revolution.

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I mean I noticed it was a little more chill.

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It felt a little more chill when I was there,

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Like it was like it was more equitable. They had

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gotten like more equitable than South Africa, which is not

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saying much because South Africa, I mean, apartheid was so

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fucking crazy. But I know I enjoyed Namibia. I still

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met some crazy racist old white woman though, oh yeah

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they're out there.

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Speaker 1: Everyone I met was super nice.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, that's cool. Okay, anyway, sorry, sorry, we

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won't get into that. But but we got the same

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shit here in the US, of course. But but the

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plants there are fucking incredible and and you were you

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were going out to see so tell eybody about Titanofy tasty.

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This is a this is a not just a genus,

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not just a species, not just a genus, but an

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entire family that was only described in like twenty fourteen,

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right twenty twenty. Wow, I didn't realize it was that recent.

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Holy hell.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's just a really interesting and we're looking.

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I always say, it looks more like an octopus than

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a plant. Has like these little short shoots that kind

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of resemble like suckers, like from an octopus. But it

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is just does not look like any other But you

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commonly think of when you think of Brassic casey or

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brass achilles, but it does. It has very minute, tiny

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little flowers that then kind of start to look a

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little more grassic caseish, but it is. It was a

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surprise for see. So I first went to Namibia in

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twenty twenty four really kind of for fun, but I

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was teaching a workshop in South Africa. So then we

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went over to Namibia to work at Goba Bad. This

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is a research facility in the in the desert, and

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then we went out to find Wowichia, of course, because

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you can't leave Namibia without seeing Wowichia. And then we

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kind of got to talking and they had mentioned that

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there was this, you know, one plant that had been

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described using just herbarium material. So people going through the

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collections and noticing that this one species it was first

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lifted as self Sola, I believe, did not kind of

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fit the expectations, and so these researchers went through and

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then went to look at it in the field and

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then discovered it was not even in the same family.

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It was actually in the bracket case. And so they

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named it. And there's only really three known populations that

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are listed in that original description in twenty twenty and

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so with the director of gob Abub and the head scientist.

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So this is Jillian and Eugene. We drove out there.

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It was like ten hours south from the Kubabab Research

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Facility to try to find his plant. It was quite

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the journey. We did a lot of eye naturalist documentation

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along the way.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. I tell it man, there's people

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there's like, you know, friends of mine who are in

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academia who are scientists whatever studying really cool stuff, and

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I tell them, can you put that on IAT so

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other people can learn about it? And they're like, I

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don't really use on it. I'm like waw why, But yeah,

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so thank you for doing that. That's amazing because your

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photos on IAD are incredible. If anybody wants to look

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at him t I G A N O p H

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y t O N. This thing is fucking bizarre, though,

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what would and no plant is anything without its habitat,

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So describe for us what the habitat here was like

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where these three populations are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so they're on salt pans, are kind of on

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the really like the outside edges of salt pans, so

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super dry and pretty in some populations pretty sandy. But yeah,

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they do not get much water. There's parts of Namabia

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that don't get water for years, and if they do

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it's just millimeters, so just super super dry, extreme environment,

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all sun, pretty short like scrubby spaces. It's not too

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many like tall plants for shading or anything, but these

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like edges of salt pans is where they seem to be.

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And we were able to find a fourth population once

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we got a good search image for it, so we

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put that on I naturalists as well, But it was

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they're so surprising. It was like I thought from the

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photos that they were gonna be like my height, so

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I'm like five but a little bit tall, like I

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thought there would be around like a tall shrub size,

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and they are much smaller. In some areas they were

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like really really tiny, just like maybe I don't know,

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twelve to fourteen inches. And then there were some that

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we found another population that like got to be maybe

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like thirty inches and like kind of wide and more

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like a shrubby plant than like a smaller kind of

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populations the different ages, and then I think, but I'm

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not sure that some they kind of send these shoots

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straight up and I again have no way to prove it.

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We wouldn't interested in is just to see if like

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it's because they get covered in the sand. That there

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was one that I took a photo of that it

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was almost all covered in sand, but then the little

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shoots were sticking up, just like these tiny little green

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shoots just sticking out of the sand. But the main

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part of the plant was all covered in sand, possibly

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kind of to help with these like sandstorms that come through.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, can you tell what was the was

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the sand like an igneous derived sand or was it

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like a limestone? Could you tell?

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Speaker 1: I don't know those types of sands. I'm that about

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soil types, but I can see if they.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it doesn't matter it was it's

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00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:19,600
probably like a quartzite, because I think most of that

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most of this stuff down there is metamorphous, like very

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old metamorphous granite.

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Speaker 1: But could it as it is expected to be in

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like somewhat saline soils. And then cal pllicicle, you know

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that type calic calicle.

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Speaker 2: No, how do you see a L C?

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Speaker 1: I see oh p A L see C A L

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C I see C L C.

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Speaker 2: A Oh probably uh, let's see, yeah, Colich so maybe

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it is calcium based, so maybe it's like a limestone.

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I don't know, but either way, super salty because it's

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super salty, which we expect to see in desert areas

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because you get high evaporation rates and lots of water

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running into valleys that heads weathered the rock around it.

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So I guess it's not surprising. But these things they

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probably grow incredibly slowly too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think they they must. We did see

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it seem like some different like generations are They're like

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the smaller ones and then the larger ones. So I

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hope we don't know about the age though, but we

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took some samples back and going to collaborate with a expert,

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Mark Olsen, you know that is going to try to

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look at the wood of it to see if we

237
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:48,840
can learn anything from that part of it.

238
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Speaker 2: God, that's going to be cool. Probably see if there's

239
00:12:50,759 --> 00:12:52,000
the growth rings or something or what.

240
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,159
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he I sent him some photos that. Yeah,

241
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,200
once we get permits and everything, he will send I'll

242
00:12:59,200 --> 00:12:59,919
ship it to him to.

243
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,480
Speaker 2: Let me see. What do you know, what latitude that

244
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,879
was it? What latitude is na Maybia? Probably like upper

245
00:13:07,879 --> 00:13:13,519
twenties or early early thirties. I don't know. Let's see,

246
00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:15,879
got you man, you got some nice photos up there. Yeah,

247
00:13:15,919 --> 00:13:18,279
thank you for putting those up. It's so cool to

248
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,759
see that. Yeah. Negative. It's twenty five south. Yeah, so

249
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,080
that's cool. So there is like very cool, So there

250
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:30,759
would be yeah, there definitely would be a season. It's

251
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,120
it's far enough south, so there would probably be good

252
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,600
growth rings. Yeah, man, what what is up with that?

253
00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:40,000
So it's got like these little rosettes of leaves, like

254
00:13:40,039 --> 00:13:44,720
attenuated branch It's heavily branched, but the branches are also

255
00:13:44,759 --> 00:13:48,240
heavily attenuated, so that they just basically look like scales

256
00:13:48,879 --> 00:13:54,120
that spiral around the plant, and uh like like scales

257
00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:55,000
of leaf rosettes.

258
00:13:55,039 --> 00:13:59,639
Speaker 1: I guess, right, Yeah, that's like the kind of the

259
00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,519
best guess. But they're they're working, I said. The last

260
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:09,279
author of the original description of the paper is doing

261
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,360
some anatomy on the plant right now, so hopefully that

262
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,000
kind of information can be a little bit more understood

263
00:14:17,039 --> 00:14:20,799
for this group. But I think we just really don't

264
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:21,559
know very much.

265
00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:24,960
Speaker 2: It's one of the most bizarre looking plants I've ever seen,

266
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,120
probably oh weird.

267
00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:28,279
Speaker 1: Do you think it looks like an octopus. I think it's.

268
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,720
Speaker 2: Totally Oh yeah, totally yeah. I mean those little those

269
00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:33,159
leaf rosettes look like the suckers. Yeah, they look like

270
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,799
the the oct Yeah. I was obsessed with this plant, man,

271
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:38,799
I had it. I was down there with my friend

272
00:14:38,879 --> 00:14:42,799
Russell and and he was he was studying Miss Sims

273
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,559
and I was like, we gotta go see tiganaphyting and

274
00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:51,080
and then I had to leave Lamibia, Namibia, but I

275
00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,080
had to cut the trip short. But uh yeah, that's man, God,

276
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,360
it's such a weird place. So but this this is

277
00:14:57,399 --> 00:15:00,440
a great segue in to your work with the Order itself,

278
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,559
press of Kaylee's, which is also fucking weird. I mean

279
00:15:03,639 --> 00:15:08,039
it's the Mustard Order. Got a lot of weird members

280
00:15:08,039 --> 00:15:11,000
in there, and a lot of weird monotypic members like COBERLINEA,

281
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,320
which I don't know what the common name is all theigners,

282
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,480
who gives a shit, I don't know. COBERLINEA is is

283
00:15:16,519 --> 00:15:20,279
so unique, it's it's it's basically like another one of

284
00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:24,639
those crucifixion thorn desert style plant, you know, leafless photosynthetic stems,

285
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:27,440
just looks like a brand, like a big you know,

286
00:15:27,639 --> 00:15:31,879
sometimes colony twelve feet wide by ten feet tall of

287
00:15:32,679 --> 00:15:35,720
spines with no leaves, just green spines with no leaves.

288
00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:38,080
And I'll see them out in West Texas, just forming

289
00:15:38,159 --> 00:15:41,200
these little thickets that have to be great habitat for

290
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,879
all kinds of cool critters to hide from, you know,

291
00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:49,279
raptors and bobcats whatever. It's also good cool.

292
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,320
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that yet. I want to come see it.

293
00:15:51,399 --> 00:15:55,159
Speaker 2: You've never seen COBERLINEA. Yeah, there's a I think there's

294
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,000
a there's a disjunct stand in the Newberry Mountains and

295
00:15:58,039 --> 00:16:01,000
the Mojave, but everything else is like I think other

296
00:16:01,039 --> 00:16:04,879
than that, like Western Arizona Cofa National Wildlife Refuge is

297
00:16:04,919 --> 00:16:06,759
the furthest West. I've ever seen it, but I guess

298
00:16:06,799 --> 00:16:09,159
there's a disjunct in the Mohave. But the Mohave is

299
00:16:09,159 --> 00:16:12,120
so much drier than where it normally grows too, so

300
00:16:12,919 --> 00:16:14,960
but anyway, sorry, okay, So, and then there's such a lant,

301
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,320
the se which is such a lant this. So tell

302
00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:20,120
how did you get into Brassic Kaylee's work and what

303
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,480
is so bizarre about it?

304
00:16:23,799 --> 00:16:27,039
Speaker 1: Yeah? So I got into working on the Brassickeales during

305
00:16:27,039 --> 00:16:31,159
my PhD. And it was really coming at this perspective

306
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,840
of trying to understand where whole genome duplications happen across

307
00:16:35,879 --> 00:16:40,360
the phylogeny, and so we tried to mostly using like

308
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,679
a feed collection, grow as many representatives from the order

309
00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:46,639
that we could. And so it was like growing these

310
00:16:46,759 --> 00:16:50,600
weird plants, which I just kind of feam of them,

311
00:16:50,679 --> 00:16:53,759
like riseidacy, it's so smelly that people either love it

312
00:16:53,879 --> 00:16:56,960
or hate it, and then like kleomis are super sticky,

313
00:16:57,399 --> 00:16:59,799
Like it's just there's just some really cool plants in

314
00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,960
this group, and so kind of fell in love with

315
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,480
them growing them in the greenhouse. And then when we

316
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,920
got their DNA to try to understand how they're related

317
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,480
to one another and trying to place these whole genome duplications,

318
00:17:12,519 --> 00:17:17,200
we found that we were not unfortunately able to confidently

319
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,079
place this one whole genome duplication called at beta that

320
00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:24,839
is somewhere in the middle or near like the base

321
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,160
of the order. Such a land sac is actually going

322
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,160
to be a really important group to understand where that is.

323
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,880
But that a lot of these families have family like

324
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,119
independent whole genome duplication, so like polyploidy and hold gingum

325
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:45,519
duplication is rampant across this group of plants. And it's

326
00:17:45,519 --> 00:17:48,799
cool because we already know that some of are my

327
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:54,880
favorite crops, like the Braska crops of cabbage, cauliflower, canola, blacktoy,

328
00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:00,039
all these delicious vegetables and seeds wells like have the

329
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,119
history of whole genum duplication that may be associated with

330
00:18:04,319 --> 00:18:07,880
their ability to domesticate them for all these unique cultivars

331
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,480
that we enjoy. So polypilidi, you know, we believe is

332
00:18:12,519 --> 00:18:16,920
like one pathway to developing new traits or key innovations,

333
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,359
and so that's one of the that's the way we

334
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:26,400
came at this order. But then kind of luckily started

335
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,720
learning more about the group when we were successful in

336
00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:34,440
getting funding from the Joint Genome Institute, which is through

337
00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:37,880
Doe Department of Energy to sequence a genome or two

338
00:18:38,039 --> 00:18:41,400
mums from every family in the order to look at

339
00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:44,519
just these really interesting traits. So at the base of

340
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:48,079
the order, wittiness is actually ancestral. And so when we

341
00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:52,240
typically think Nebraska, I think most folks will picture a

342
00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:56,200
herbaceous plant, but the ancestral state of this order is woody.

343
00:18:56,759 --> 00:19:01,000
Secondary metabolites like lucosinolates are all across the.

344
00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 2: Order and glucosimilates those are they're like sulfur compounds, correct.

345
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, mustard oil. So the reason you like mustard, Yeah,

346
00:19:11,039 --> 00:19:15,160
with sabby mustard. All of the reason why people used

347
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,000
to hate Brussels sprouts, it's really been bred out of

348
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,720
them so much of buttery. Now they're so good. They're

349
00:19:20,839 --> 00:19:21,359
so good.

350
00:19:21,559 --> 00:19:24,680
Speaker 2: You roast those things. You know what Brussels sprouts, that's

351
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,759
what tiganophyton looks like. It looks like Brussels sprouts.

352
00:19:28,039 --> 00:19:29,599
Speaker 1: Oh, I never thought.

353
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 2: It's the same fucking thing. Yeah, it's like those rosettes

354
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,799
of leaves and there, really and really quick, let me

355
00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:38,480
interrupt you for polyploidy, for any fellow degenerates who may

356
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,720
not be familiar with the you know, humans, mammals, vertebrates

357
00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:45,400
have two copies of the chromosome, or of the of

358
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,559
the genome, right, two two copies of chromosomes. One comes

359
00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:52,559
from the one parent, one comes from another. Plants, of course,

360
00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:56,400
can have multiple copies of the chromosome, so like backup copies,

361
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,559
and this is extremely beneficial. It gives them more in

362
00:19:59,559 --> 00:20:03,279
their quote genetic toolbox. It enables I mean, like all

363
00:20:03,319 --> 00:20:08,079
our crops are polyploid, like people hybridize two wild species, uh,

364
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,559
you know, and the hybrid is polyploid, and it's more

365
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,759
robust and more able to cope with environmental stresses. Lots

366
00:20:15,799 --> 00:20:20,000
of weeds are polyploid, like you know, ruteral plants you

367
00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:23,559
find growing on piss strewn roadsides at truck stops that

368
00:20:23,599 --> 00:20:25,720
are able to cope with like getting the ship beat

369
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,400
out of them by the sun and you know, really

370
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,920
bad soil, et cetera. So polyploid is the thing that

371
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,400
plants do that I think maybe there's probably a couple

372
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,880
of animals. I don't know, I've never looked into polyploid

373
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:39,359
and animals. Salmon are polyploid.

374
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there some fish, there, some frogs.

375
00:20:43,599 --> 00:20:45,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, mammals.

376
00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:47,759
Speaker 1: It's tricky because we have sexual reproduction.

377
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,839
Speaker 2: But yeah, but anyway, but so it's the thing that

378
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,440
you normally associate with plants. But it's a very it

379
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,240
can be very adaptive, it's very it can be very

380
00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,359
beneficial most crops, most weeds, et cetera. And so that's

381
00:21:00,519 --> 00:21:04,279
polyploid is dominant in a Brasschle's order, not downinant, but

382
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,920
very common in the brassicle's orders, as is being monotypic, right,

383
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,039
like having a family that's out there on its own

384
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,000
branch when you look at a phylogeny at a family tree,

385
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,640
but it's only got like one species in it or

386
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:19,400
one genus.

387
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was curious, Like I tried to do a

388
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,119
little like research preparing for this, like to talk about

389
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,119
like how if it is the order with the most

390
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,079
monotypic families, and I think it has to be one

391
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,200
of the most if you consider like percent of order,

392
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:37,960
because there's on.

393
00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 2: Let's go ahead, sorry, sorry, keep going, keep coming.

394
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:48,839
Speaker 1: No, it's okay, there's uh, there's eighteen families on and

395
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,640
I counted that there's like eight or like eight monotypic

396
00:21:53,759 --> 00:21:56,839
or nearly monotypic families. So what I mean by nearly

397
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:02,319
monotypic being like just a couple full of species or

398
00:22:02,839 --> 00:22:05,920
like like two species one genus, and then there's like

399
00:22:06,319 --> 00:22:09,720
sometimes one split into two species that other people recognize

400
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,440
it as one species. So around around eight families, which

401
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,960
is kind of crazy. It's so they're so weird too.

402
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally, Okay. After wasting some water to ask

403
00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:27,039
artificial intelligence something, you know, they're they're doing it, they're

404
00:22:27,039 --> 00:22:30,039
gonna be they're using AI to find ways to fucking

405
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,119
builk consumers and start in new wars. But I can

406
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,680
use it to ask what is the most you know,

407
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,839
the order with the most monotipic fan. It's saying lamey Alies,

408
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,119
but oh, I don't know. I don't know about that.

409
00:22:43,079 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 1: I feel like eight of of just like because lame

410
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,200
alias has so many more families.

411
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, maybe I don't know. I think as full

412
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,079
of shit. Maybe it's maybe it's mixing this so I

413
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,039
use deep Seat because that's the one that pissed off

414
00:22:56,079 --> 00:22:59,279
all the American billionaires and it's you know, I want

415
00:22:59,279 --> 00:23:02,920
to support Chine but uh anyway, okay, but so but Brasilles.

416
00:23:03,079 --> 00:23:04,720
I mean, like I think, I think with this order,

417
00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:08,119
people don't realize how much is in it. Maringa, which

418
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,079
is like the famous abulita plant where I live, Like, oh,

419
00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:13,359
where I live. Every Mexican grant he's got a maringa

420
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:14,119
tree in the yard.

421
00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: Uh, papaya love maringa powder. For like people take maringa

422
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,079
as a stupplement. You can go your local GMC and

423
00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:21,680
buy a maringa.

424
00:23:21,839 --> 00:23:24,119
Speaker 2: Do you think that's snake oil? Do you think that's bullshit?

425
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,039
I mean it's good for you, but enough to be

426
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,640
I've hoized and sold it, you know, however much.

427
00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 1: I've never tried it. But yeah, so speaking for your memory,

428
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:34,799
I'll try.

429
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: I'll try boofing maringa powder next time. You can be

430
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,880
ye subject, okay, yeah a cane ac. Never heard of

431
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,119
that tropy olece. Of course, that's the genus Tropiolum, which

432
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,480
is mega diverse in the Andes, really fucking cool.

433
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:56,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, are sorry desertions. Everyone loves planting. I can't ever

434
00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:56,920
say that genus that.

435
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. But and you can again that glucoscinillites you

436
00:24:01,599 --> 00:24:03,920
can smell or when you touch on me. They got

437
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,319
that mustard. It used to be this thing like every

438
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,839
hippie in the Bay Area would be like, oh, tropy Nosturtium,

439
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,359
you could you could eat it. And then like I realized,

440
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:13,920
and so I just came to know that one species.

441
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,079
Then I realized there's like thirty of them with crazy

442
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,799
flowers and they're all kind of waxy and have that

443
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,359
you know, really heavy on the wax on the leaves.

444
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:25,960
And then I found out that that's the common names nasturtium.

445
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,160
It's not actually Nasturtium's its own genus that's also in

446
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,799
this order, but in a different family.

447
00:24:30,599 --> 00:24:30,759
Speaker 1: But.

448
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 2: Mooringaycy Yeah, and then Mooringaycy, which is the I will

449
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,240
lead a plant, you know, the nice tree see and

450
00:24:39,319 --> 00:24:43,279
like the granny's backyard, but it's also Maringo big genus.

451
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,440
Some of them are bottle trees and the Maybia. Did

452
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:46,200
you see any of those?

453
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're so cool. They're like I saw one. Nothing

454
00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:54,880
else was in flower, like it's just lunar landscapes. And

455
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,839
then off a distance you see one Maringa tree and

456
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,799
a full flower. So we like cart the car, of course,

457
00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:04,559
and ran out. It always looks far, it looks closer

458
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,359
than it is, but we got out there and they're

459
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,039
just like thousands of bees just like so happy because

460
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,440
this one Maringa tree and it was it's so beautiful.

461
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,920
And then we like scaled this rocky mountain or outcrop

462
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,000
to try to like get up to some closer to

463
00:25:20,039 --> 00:25:21,960
some Oh. They're just so cool.

464
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: And they can love them. They can flower and survive

465
00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:28,480
in that because a lot of them are succulent, right yeah.

466
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:33,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well they have that like storage system in their trunk.

467
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 2: The bottle. Yeah, they've got like a bottle shaped trunk.

468
00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:35,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

469
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 2: And then oh wow, that's Mareen Gacy's sister to Kara Casey.

470
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,240
That's the papaya fa correct.

471
00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and sees interesting because we also know that it

472
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,039
has sex chromosomes and that's not too common in the

473
00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:50,720
plant world.

474
00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:52,799
Speaker 2: Okay, explain what do you mean by that?

475
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,799
Speaker 1: So, like humans, we have an X and Y chromosome,

476
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,200
and so that's not too common across the plant plant

477
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,680
world that Casey is one place you found it, you

478
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:05,079
find it.

479
00:26:05,559 --> 00:26:09,519
Speaker 2: Oh, so the chromosomes themselves are like demarketed in the

480
00:26:09,559 --> 00:26:11,640
genome as being one sex or.

481
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: The other cracked. Yep.

482
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy, it's so cool. Yeah. What do you

483
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,000
think the adaptive benefit of that is something having to

484
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:20,799
do without crossing?

485
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would guess something about keeping the nied diversity.

486
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,519
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, okay, And then we got the limb nant theacy,

487
00:26:30,839 --> 00:26:33,359
which sounds familiar, but I don't. I don't. I can't

488
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,400
think of that. Do you know that one?

489
00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a cool one. And there are some really

490
00:26:39,559 --> 00:26:44,599
endemic like natives to California. There is another really small,

491
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:50,319
small family. Uh, and it's just the one in California,

492
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:57,400
I think so. And it's a it's just their nice, cute,

493
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,359
little tiny plants.

494
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, I've seen Yeah, that's right, Lemna.

495
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: In vernal pools, which I think are one of the

496
00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:11,799
coolest ecosystems in California. I only know them in California.

497
00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:15,599
So some of the members of lemon thesis are vernal

498
00:27:15,599 --> 00:27:16,880
pool endemics too.

499
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I haven't thought about this genus in

500
00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:22,759
four years, man, because I haven't been I haven't been

501
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:25,440
out there button. I think, Wow, that's great. Yeah, I

502
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,680
forgot about that. Guy. Oh that's nice. It's nice to

503
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,839
be reminded. Okay. And then we got such a lant thesy.

504
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,519
Tell everybody about such because this is so fucking cool.

505
00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:36,759
This is a really cool there's another monotypic family.

506
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so such Alanthus is just when I'm like just

507
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:43,640
getting kind of familiar with. So with some collaboration with

508
00:27:44,039 --> 00:27:46,880
Mark Olsen and some other colleagues in Mexico where it's

509
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,960
endemic too, he actually thinks that this could be one

510
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,640
of Mexico's only endemic plant families. So really cool group.

511
00:27:55,599 --> 00:28:00,680
And so we believe that it is like really important

512
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,599
to understand where at beta falls in the phylogeny. And

513
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,680
why that's important is and it allows us to kind

514
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,680
of track the fate of genes that are responsible for

515
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:11,720
some of these interesting traits that you and I have

516
00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:15,720
been talking about. But it has a disjunct distribution in

517
00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:20,000
Mexico as well. But really hard to get to these

518
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:24,160
are like multiple day drives into the field to get

519
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,319
to these plants. But they have purple flowers. They're really pretty.

520
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 2: Wait what okay, so at beta again, refresher is what

521
00:28:30,759 --> 00:28:31,359
is this again?

522
00:28:32,599 --> 00:28:35,559
Speaker 1: Well, it's just holding on duplication that we know is

523
00:28:35,599 --> 00:28:38,160
somewhere at the base of the order for this like

524
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,119
file for the phylogeny, but we don't know exactly where

525
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:44,359
it is. And so to kind of the one major

526
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,039
goal that myself and doctor Pat Edger have is to

527
00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:51,079
try to figure out where it is in the order.

528
00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:54,480
And so we haven't been able to sample such a

529
00:28:54,559 --> 00:28:58,279
lands e very get any nuclear DNA for it. So

530
00:28:58,359 --> 00:29:01,440
we're hope we're with this collaboration and we're going to

531
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,240
be able to figure out where that event occurs.

532
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 2: Okay, So when you say where it is in the order,

533
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,359
basically you're going to find where on this cladogram it

534
00:29:09,519 --> 00:29:12,000
is and find what families don't have it, and what

535
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:12,759
families do.

536
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then hopefully we can see as like an

537
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:20,359
expansion of a gene family that's responsible for I don't know,

538
00:29:20,519 --> 00:29:23,960
any kind of interesting trait after that whole genome duplication

539
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:25,519
once we know where it is.

540
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,079
Speaker 2: Would you say as a whole that that brash Achilles.

541
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,359
I mean, there's there's aquatic members too, but would you

542
00:29:32,359 --> 00:29:34,759
say as a whole they're kind of more more of

543
00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:36,720
the species and families in there are more cut out

544
00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:37,640
for dry environments.

545
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: I they're very woody, like a lot of them. But

546
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:47,000
there it depends like for the families. Maybe for if

547
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:48,480
you just look at the families, but I feel like

548
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,440
at individual species, a lot of them are Mediterranean.

549
00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, well that's I mean that's dry, that's somewhat dry. Yeah,

550
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,119
summerre dry. The hottest season is the driest.

551
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: But uh, and then you have like Cape Racey that's

552
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,720
more tropical ish. Yeah, Papaia is a little bit more

553
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:07,720
tropical ish.

554
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:15,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pi is not. But yeah, man, there's some really

555
00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:17,680
cool Okay, so keep it. We're moving down a finelane. Okay,

556
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,880
So such a lant. They see sister to lem nanthis,

557
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,240
they see which is lym Nanthe's yeah, in such a lan. Yeah,

558
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,480
there's like a population in Hidalgo and then a population

559
00:30:27,559 --> 00:30:31,599
in takuakan uh the wa kan take Uaking you know,

560
00:30:31,759 --> 00:30:33,279
take Waking biospe reserve.

561
00:30:35,839 --> 00:30:39,799
Speaker 1: But we're working on that one right now. So working

562
00:30:39,839 --> 00:30:43,519
to first you got it, you need to go into

563
00:30:43,559 --> 00:30:46,440
the communities. But these plants occur, So this is all

564
00:30:46,519 --> 00:30:49,440
information I've learned from Mark, like, and then ask for

565
00:30:49,519 --> 00:30:53,200
permission to sample these plants. And then once you have

566
00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:56,079
permission from these communities, then you're allowed to ask the

567
00:30:56,119 --> 00:30:59,319
government for permission to sample them. So it will be

568
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,880
many year or a year probably till we can get

569
00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:06,880
the proper permissions in order to sample this plant. But yeah,

570
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:07,839
trying to do it the right way.

571
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't. I don't want just a bunch of

572
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,880
random hockeys going down there being like you know, they're

573
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,519
they're skeptical, understandably, I guess. But I mean, you guys

574
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:18,880
are working with Mexican bondanists too though, Yeah, yeah, but

575
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,519
are they are they generally they're not like wary of scientists,

576
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,599
are they? Depending on where you go or what I mean,

577
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:30,319
Like indigenous communities, there's just small farming communities or I haven't.

578
00:31:30,119 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: Been down there, I hope too. So I'm not sure

579
00:31:32,759 --> 00:31:36,240
exactly what the community makeup is, but for sure to

580
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:40,880
small local communities. And I think it's just trying to

581
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:44,759
I know that's required for the permits right now in Mexico,

582
00:31:44,839 --> 00:31:48,960
so getting permits has been really hard lately. Yeah, just

583
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,880
trying to protect resources, which is understandable.

584
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,359
Speaker 2: Well. Also, I think when like the one of the

585
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,319
countries involved, it's like behaving like such a dick to

586
00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:02,319
the you know what I mean. Yeah, I guess they're

587
00:32:02,359 --> 00:32:04,359
asking for visas now to go down there too. I

588
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,720
want like to there, which they're just like, you know,

589
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,559
I think understandably to their attitude is just kind of

590
00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:11,279
like you fuck you.

591
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,599
Speaker 1: Guys, like you guys you know, yeah, no, maybe too,

592
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,519
you know, have to have a visa Jesus really yep.

593
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:20,400
They just went into a fact April.

594
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 2: Oh god, so what does that mean just topply online

595
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,599
and then pay a fee and wait or what?

596
00:32:26,759 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: That's it sounds like it I have it stupid, I mean,

597
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:33,960
we charge them visas to come.

598
00:32:34,559 --> 00:32:35,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's stupid too.

599
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know, man, I agree.

600
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 2: Just think of like Marco Rube Gout. I fucking hate

601
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,640
Marco Rubio. I fucking hate that guy. He's such a phony.

602
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,640
He's such a fucking car salesman. All these people no

603
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,200
offense to actual car salesman, you know what I mean,

604
00:32:49,559 --> 00:32:51,839
insurance salesman, you know what I mean. I'm not knocking

605
00:32:51,839 --> 00:32:53,400
to work. I'm just saying I'm not going to work

606
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,400
in class someone who's got to sell fucking mazdas for

607
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,000
a living. I'm just saying. These politicians, all these specially

608
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:05,000
the right wing ones. Anyway, Okay, sorry, So uh cobralinear

609
00:33:05,119 --> 00:33:09,000
c bad tasty, bad tasty is Ah, that's like a

610
00:33:09,319 --> 00:33:12,839
salty It's a salty dog. It's a salty litter yeat.

611
00:33:13,599 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: An aquatic plant too.

612
00:33:15,559 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, where have I seen I think I've seen

613
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,119
that on the Gulf here in southern Texas.

614
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:25,359
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. It's another really

615
00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:28,400
cool one. That's a kind of nearly monotypic too. Right,

616
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:33,720
there's two species but one genus, and it is I

617
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,240
grew that one at the University of Missouri during my PhD.

618
00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:40,559
And it is so cool. It's just they're very very

619
00:33:40,599 --> 00:33:45,720
cute plants. I really like. Unfortunately, that that one has

620
00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:49,119
not made it, but I really want to come go

621
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,240
try to see some. Also, a lot of these I

622
00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:53,519
grew and then haven't seen all of them. But there's

623
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:55,599
so many to see. It's like a checklist.

624
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,519
Speaker 2: Their baitis is its succulent too? Yeah?

625
00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:02,279
Speaker 1: Mm hm. But it's like you have this plant and

626
00:34:02,279 --> 00:34:04,839
then you have taigonophyton in the same order. This is

627
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,880
so different from one another.

628
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,519
Speaker 2: That's so weird, man. Yeah, so so succulents and salt

629
00:34:10,559 --> 00:34:17,559
tolerance and glucoscinilate fight out chemistry. Does every family have glucosinillates?

630
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 1: I think every family, but uh, cobralin ace o.

631
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 2: Weird, weird Salvador ace Ooh, another one of my favorites.

632
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:36,039
Speaker 1: What we learned about Yeah, so Salvador acey is you

633
00:34:36,039 --> 00:34:38,800
can also find it in the bibia. It's all along.

634
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:44,000
There's actually one growing in the lobby of the globobob

635
00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:49,039
Research facility and it's all along in the washes. And

636
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:52,840
I learned this last trip that the local tribes chew

637
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:57,599
on the sticks of it to like as a toothbrush

638
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:58,760
to keep their teeth white.

639
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,639
Speaker 2: So, okay, how many how many genera in there?

640
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:04,599
Speaker 1: Three?

641
00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:08,679
Speaker 2: Three? God damn man, I want to see that too.

642
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,880
Are there any is there any? Are there any in

643
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,840
North America of Salvador? Yeah?

644
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: Easy? Uh?

645
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 2: Probably not? No man. How long were you in the

646
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:19,760
Mibia for.

647
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: This last trip? I went for because I kind of

648
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,639
fell in love with the country, so I commenced my

649
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,360
husband that he had to come see the country. So

650
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,679
we went for a week before work for just touring around,

651
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:34,679
and so I got to go up to the north

652
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,159
part of the country. That was a week, and then

653
00:35:38,159 --> 00:35:41,000
I did a second week in Namibia doing the research,

654
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,599
and then a third week in South Africa at the

655
00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:45,800
University of Patoria where they just had their one hundred

656
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,519
year celebration for their herbaria.

657
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,679
Speaker 2: Oh shit, that's that's great. Man. Did you see you

658
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,239
see any cool snakes in the Mibia.

659
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: No, I'm afraid of snakes. I was shying not to

660
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,800
see them, but I didn't see any.

661
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:02,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, they got those. They got bigger lapids over there.

662
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,559
They got every vipers and the lapids. There's some cool. Uh,

663
00:36:06,599 --> 00:36:09,559
there's some cool I'd love to see. I've only seen

664
00:36:09,559 --> 00:36:12,440
a lamp at once. The cobra family. It was spitting

665
00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:16,119
at us and my friend Adam was like trying to

666
00:36:16,199 --> 00:36:17,559
I don't know what he was doing. He had a

667
00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:19,639
death wish at that point, so he was trying to

668
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,800
like get to know it better. And it was funny.

669
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,239
And this thing was just pissed off. It was like

670
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,159
a spitting cobra. And I was like, just leave it alone.

671
00:36:28,199 --> 00:36:29,639
He's like, I just want to get close to look

672
00:36:29,679 --> 00:36:32,679
at it and and uh but it was spitting at us.

673
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,639
I was like, Jesus christ Man, this is like a

674
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,639
this this really ups the ante. Like, we got rattlesnakes.

675
00:36:37,679 --> 00:36:39,599
They're very kind. They let you know when you're close

676
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,559
a spitting coat, a snake that spits venom. It's like

677
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:47,079
a you know, he died.

678
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: Is a danger noodle. You stay away from it. Yeah. Yeah,

679
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:53,800
this is why when we went to try to when

680
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,920
we went to go find Taygonophyton, the collaborators are talking

681
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,119
about Jillian and eighteen. They are the coolest people. But

682
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:02,360
they were like, okay, well we just pull over and

683
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,280
sleep on the side of the road. Like and I

684
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,840
was like with these snakes and like all these scary

685
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,559
animals like lions and everything that are going to eat. Yeah,

686
00:37:15,079 --> 00:37:18,320
they don't even use a tent. They are super hardcore.

687
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,559
And I really I do not consider myself like too prissy,

688
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,360
but apparently I am because I needed I.

689
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,079
Speaker 2: Wanted to no man, no, and they have there's scorpions

690
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:31,719
over there that will that can kill you too. They're

691
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,679
not just like the little bark scorpions we have that

692
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:36,639
will you know how, it's like a beast thing. It's

693
00:37:36,679 --> 00:37:38,920
like big ass scary scorpions. Man.

694
00:37:40,039 --> 00:37:43,679
Speaker 1: Yeah. And then uh, Eugene's like, don't worry, I sleep

695
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,320
with an axe and I was like that, I know,

696
00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:50,039
I still don't think I can be sleep.

697
00:37:53,039 --> 00:37:56,079
Speaker 2: Did you see did you see any large predatory mammals

698
00:37:56,119 --> 00:37:56,719
while you were there?

699
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 1: Well, so the first week I was there more is

700
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:04,199
like tourists. We were in Atosha at the National park

701
00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:07,199
in the north part of Namibia, and so we saw

702
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:13,159
lions and lion cubs and very cute que animals. But

703
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:17,880
I didn't see anything like out just a lot of

704
00:38:18,079 --> 00:38:27,119
ors Ostrich What about Secretary, I saw drafts in Oh

705
00:38:27,199 --> 00:38:29,239
we saw them the first year in twenty twenty four

706
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,719
out like and then we saw zebras. We I think

707
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,920
we did see zebras this time too, but yeah, it's

708
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,719
it's so like coming from the US like driving and

709
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,599
doing field work and like you look over after you

710
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:47,800
filled up your car and gas and there's like giraffes.

711
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,719
This hanging out is just like the wildest experience.

712
00:38:51,079 --> 00:38:53,199
Speaker 2: Were you guys collecting for the for the your barium

713
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,679
and Wynd Hook? Vind Hook? How do you say? Vind?

714
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,800
What is it? Vind? Hook?

715
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: Yeah?

716
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:01,280
Speaker 2: Is that right? Vin Hook?

717
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: Then Hook? Yeah?

718
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. Were you guys collecting for the bearing there?

719
00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: So they have a herbarium at Goba Bub Oh god,

720
00:39:12,159 --> 00:39:14,480
it's not digitized or anything, but it's just tiny, like

721
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:17,840
a tiny yeah, but very good, good reference collection.

722
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:19,559
Speaker 2: Were you guys collecting a lot out there?

723
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: We they collected specimens as vouchers did I? We didn't

724
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,039
collect We just mostly did I and at documentation.

725
00:39:29,679 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah? But still what else was growing with

726
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,840
with titana fighting in those salt pan areas?

727
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: So a ton of South Sola, but not much is not.

728
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 2: Bray, Probably not much else though?

729
00:39:47,679 --> 00:39:50,159
Speaker 1: What else? I did see a borage because I'm always

730
00:39:50,199 --> 00:39:56,760
on the look for a borage, and I think it

731
00:39:57,039 --> 00:40:00,639
I think it was a helotropium. I don't remember what

732
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:05,199
I identified it to, but and then I think we

733
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:13,679
saw some other amorans. What else. That's pretty much. But

734
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,840
it's growing like concurrently with the cell soul, which is

735
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,880
why I'm not like surprised that they were like collected

736
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,400
and on the same herbarium sheet if they like kind

737
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,400
of share a little stand mound, so they were.

738
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:31,199
Speaker 2: On the same way with Gigano fighting was on the

739
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,599
same herbarium sheet, like thought to be the same species

740
00:40:33,599 --> 00:40:34,639
as cell Sola.

741
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why it hasn't been described. It basically was

742
00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:43,119
like hiding in the herbaria for many years.

743
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,519
Speaker 2: Oh wow, when was that collection from, you.

744
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: Know, the original collection? I don't remember.

745
00:40:53,119 --> 00:40:54,760
Speaker 2: We see, but like decades ago.

746
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,039
Speaker 1: Yeah wow, let's see. I can.

747
00:41:01,519 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: So someone collected someone collected cell Sola and then collected

748
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,119
a branch of tigain A fighting because it was growing

749
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:10,199
next to it, and just said that these are the

750
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:15,400
same thing. Yeah, wow, crazy, that's wild.

751
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:20,119
Speaker 1: Man, my understanding of it when I like read read

752
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:20,559
the paper.

753
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,599
Speaker 2: So someone was then in the herbarium and looking and

754
00:41:23,639 --> 00:41:25,760
that's how they noticed this is different, then went out

755
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,840
to go why not to go inspected at the collection location.

756
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the first author.

757
00:41:32,119 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 2: Damn, that's that's wild. That's pretty cool. That's it also

758
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,840
highlights the importance of her baria exactly.

759
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:43,079
Speaker 1: Like there's so many taxa that are still like order

760
00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:45,960
specimens that are like, you know, a genius stuff Like

761
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,719
there's I think a lot of biodiversity that's underscribed that's

762
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,960
in the herbaria. And as you know, herbaria are critically

763
00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:57,239
underfunded and being closed, like the do Cerbarium where they

764
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,320
just decided no more.

765
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,599
Speaker 2: That went already. Huh is that closed it?

766
00:42:01,679 --> 00:42:02,079
Speaker 1: Or yeah?

767
00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 2: It's crazy man.

768
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: Right, it is crazy. And so like all these stories,

769
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,719
we would never know about it if you know, people

770
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:13,159
weren't going through their specimens.

771
00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:15,679
Speaker 2: Well yeah. And also but like plants are the base

772
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,599
of everything. Without them, you don't have any life, and

773
00:42:18,639 --> 00:42:21,400
you know on land and then and then an erbarium

774
00:42:21,519 --> 00:42:25,440
is a collection of pressed plants from you know, that region,

775
00:42:26,639 --> 00:42:30,360
you know, dating back a century sometimes two or three centuries.

776
00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:32,159
And if you don't have that, I mean, how can

777
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:37,920
you be like a large mainstream institution and not having erbarium.

778
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:42,480
It's insane. It's totally for them, it's totally embarrassing. Yeah,

779
00:42:42,519 --> 00:42:44,880
but I mean it's it goes along with like the

780
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,400
defunding of science in the US altogether. Unless it can

781
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:54,280
be used for medicine or for some other like technology anthropocentric,

782
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,199
you know, but if.

783
00:42:56,039 --> 00:42:59,039
Speaker 1: We think about it, this one, right, this weird plant

784
00:42:59,039 --> 00:43:04,960
in the middle desert, right is super adapted for salt

785
00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:09,920
salty soils and for super dry areas, And those are

786
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,199
the types of environments we're gonna need to be able

787
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,119
to grow crops when we think about how the climate

788
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,079
is changing. And so we can learn from this plant

789
00:43:19,559 --> 00:43:22,639
and a dot and like try to adapt and like

790
00:43:23,519 --> 00:43:26,199
help our crops, like kind of a it's a cousin

791
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,920
of Ourbraska crops, Like what did it do to survive?

792
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,079
Can we then help our crops?

793
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely. I mean to people like you and me

794
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,800
who see the big picture and can see that little

795
00:43:36,599 --> 00:43:41,679
you know, that that little pin of worth in the haystack.

796
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:43,960
I mean it's easy for us because we're not just

797
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,079
looking for the pin. We're enamored with the whole haystack.

798
00:43:47,519 --> 00:43:50,000
But I think the people that are still indoctrinated in

799
00:43:50,039 --> 00:43:53,880
the cult of just anthropocentric thinking, they don't see that.

800
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,760
They don't find anything wonderful and incredible about the haystack.

801
00:43:58,199 --> 00:44:00,480
So they have to find that little pin. They can't.

802
00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:03,920
You often can't find it until you're looking sitting there,

803
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,000
taking the time to look at the whole fucking haystack.

804
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,519
And that's what that's what drives me nuts man about

805
00:44:08,639 --> 00:44:11,960
I mean everything that the society we live in. It's

806
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,480
just it's so it's so disconnected. And then of course,

807
00:44:15,519 --> 00:44:17,440
you know you always hear like progressive Honkey's time, like

808
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,480
oh the digit is this, the digit is that, but

809
00:44:19,519 --> 00:44:22,360
they never talk about stuff like this. I feel like

810
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,199
they're it's just kind of like this identitarian fetishizing of

811
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,880
a culture, many thousands of cultures, as if they're all

812
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:31,840
the same. But they like this is why I always

813
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:33,960
encurage me. I like talk about like the meat of

814
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,760
the issue, like what is what is the ideology that's

815
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,559
important here? It's like you have reverence for everything. It's

816
00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:42,800
all important. It's all important, and if you don't see

817
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,360
the worth right now, you'll see it later on. But

818
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,519
I fucking assure you it's there. These pieces are these

819
00:44:48,599 --> 00:44:51,239
plants are pieces to a living machine that keeps us

820
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,679
all alive. It's it's a yeah, I could go on

821
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:56,800
a rant forever, but I just wrote a book about

822
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,239
it's all stopped. But it's a fucking depopera worldview. It's

823
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:00,000
very frustrating.

824
00:45:00,199 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, that's what we talk about. Plants keeps

825
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:05,440
this happy.

826
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,039
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah but okay, so okay, moving on

827
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:13,440
down this fucking name. This name is hilarious. M blinge ac.

828
00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:14,719
What the ship is?

829
00:45:16,039 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: I don't know much about this one.

830
00:45:18,639 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 2: Have you heard this? You've heard this name before though, right, yeah.

831
00:45:21,639 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, let me double check what I know about

832
00:45:26,519 --> 00:45:30,199
this one. So Australia, so this one is just in Australia,

833
00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:34,559
so I should have and I have only been to

834
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,440
like Ularu kind of the central part of Australia and

835
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,960
eastern Australia, so it's been like more western Australia.

836
00:45:42,039 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 2: What were you doing there? You were in wait, you

837
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:45,159
were in the central Australia.

838
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:49,519
Speaker 1: I went to Ularu. Yeah, for my honeymoon. Whoa, I

839
00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:51,480
was giving a talk in Sydney, it was. I was

840
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:58,239
also like give a talk at a Nebraska conference in Sydney.

841
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 2: Man, that's when was that? That's pretty cool. You've been

842
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,039
in the Bras. You've been doing brassicas for a while,

843
00:46:03,199 --> 00:46:05,280
you know, I said, I said, Wow, she's been into

844
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,920
these most of things for a long time. I thought this,

845
00:46:08,039 --> 00:46:09,000
you know, I'm a newcomer.

846
00:46:10,039 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: No, I feel like because you and I most we

847
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:16,119
talk about bouradges. Yeah, funny to talk about the bass

848
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,480
is now on. I think I was twenty twenty two.

849
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,400
I was there. It was a conference on canola oil. Actually,

850
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,840
they're interested in understanding some of these other Brassica species

851
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,599
and what we can learn from them, So there's interest

852
00:46:31,639 --> 00:46:32,039
for sure.

853
00:46:32,159 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, this there's only one there's only one photograph. No,

854
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:44,199
there's two. Yeah, yeah, one observation of Emblingia excuse me,

855
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:49,480
and it's by someone calling themselves botanist Bob, just north

856
00:46:49,519 --> 00:46:52,920
of Perth. But it's it's yeah, I mean it's it

857
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,039
looks like it might be a marshy environment. It's kind

858
00:46:55,039 --> 00:46:58,639
of near the uh, the coast. It's near let's see,

859
00:46:58,639 --> 00:47:02,840
what the fuck is this nature preserve? Lake Lake Low

860
00:47:03,079 --> 00:47:06,039
Nature Reserve. Yeah, I'm guessing that's like a marshland. I

861
00:47:06,079 --> 00:47:09,920
can't tell. God, it's another weird Yeah, it looks like

862
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,360
juicy and kind of hairy. And I can't really tell

863
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,280
what the flowers are like.

864
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 1: But in Blinga, right, the flowers are kind of weird looking.

865
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,360
But I don't know if this is in Britannica and.

866
00:47:22,519 --> 00:47:27,559
Speaker 2: Blingia kelciot a weird. I love shit like this. This

867
00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:29,239
is one of the coolest things about INAD is you

868
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:31,480
can go through you go on like the taxonomy chart

869
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:34,559
and you can just look. You go to taxonomy and

870
00:47:34,559 --> 00:47:36,639
then you can click on like family genius whatever, and

871
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,199
just see weird shit you never knew existed. Oh I

872
00:47:40,199 --> 00:47:41,599
think this is monotypic too.

873
00:47:42,599 --> 00:47:46,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's another weird one. We've been trying so

874
00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:51,159
for that funding for the genomes across the order. We've

875
00:47:51,199 --> 00:47:54,480
been working with research in Australia to try to get it,

876
00:47:54,519 --> 00:47:57,840
but we have haven't been able to quite yet. So

877
00:47:58,639 --> 00:48:01,000
hopefully we figured that one out. Oh you have, I'm

878
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:02,000
on a mission.

879
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 2: To get samples that is you mean?

880
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, because to get high molecular weight for a genome,

881
00:48:09,159 --> 00:48:13,400
like so really good quality DNA, it's tricky. So all

882
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:14,400
the way from Australia.

883
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 2: So what is that? What do you mean high molecular weight?

884
00:48:18,159 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: It's just a DNA. So if you like think about

885
00:48:22,039 --> 00:48:25,360
DNA kind of the strands of DNA, just the ones

886
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,760
that are very long rather than little tiny pieces like

887
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:30,719
it's been cut up.

888
00:48:31,079 --> 00:48:34,559
Speaker 2: Right, which is what Yeah, because you're doing whole genome

889
00:48:35,039 --> 00:48:36,840
I guess this is the difference. This is the difference

890
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:41,199
between whole genome sequencing and just doing like looking at

891
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:42,800
certain regions gene regions.

892
00:48:43,079 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, yeah, we're trying to get full chromosome to chromosome,

893
00:48:48,159 --> 00:48:51,119
like the end to end telling you're telling your level

894
00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:54,719
chromosomes or genome issembly.

895
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,119
Speaker 2: Just piecing together? I mean, are you like doing it

896
00:48:57,159 --> 00:49:00,159
by piecing together pieces of it?

897
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: Like, No, we're trying to get like full, like the

898
00:49:05,519 --> 00:49:09,760
full sequence of everything. You're right, but that we can

899
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,480
know all the genes and all the orders and of

900
00:49:13,559 --> 00:49:14,079
the genes.

901
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 2: You know. I never even thought about. But the differences

902
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,440
between like PCR, like just doing gene regions and then

903
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,239
the whole gene I'm like, yeah, how do you do that? Man?

904
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,760
That's so massive? Like are you you're still doing PCR?

905
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:27,480
Presumably right, you have to amplify it.

906
00:49:28,599 --> 00:49:33,599
Speaker 1: So so PCR typically what for like in I don't

907
00:49:33,639 --> 00:49:36,119
I think this is PCR free library prep. I haven't

908
00:49:36,159 --> 00:49:38,480
done any library preps. So we're working with a group

909
00:49:38,519 --> 00:49:45,599
in Arizona, the Arizona Genomics, a GI genomics institute, and

910
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,480
they are experts doing all of this, so I get

911
00:49:49,519 --> 00:49:51,880
the fun part personally, I think I think they think

912
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:53,719
their part is fun, Thank goodness. But I get to

913
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,920
go on the field and try to find these cool plants.

914
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,360
And then they take the tissue that I send them,

915
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,840
so taking some leaf tissue, some different parts of the

916
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,280
plants flowers, and then send that tissue to these folks

917
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,639
in Arizona. They extract the DNA and make sure it's

918
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:13,440
per They have like in house protocols that they do,

919
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,440
and then they send that now DNA that's been extracted

920
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,920
out of the plant to the sequencing team at Hudson

921
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:25,880
Alpha in Huntsville, Alabama, and they do the sequencing. Oh,

922
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,719
it's a full process, takes multiple years.

923
00:50:30,119 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 2: So this is not just like this not just like

924
00:50:33,599 --> 00:50:36,719
Alan Rockefeller doing PCR in the trunk of a fucking

925
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:42,039
Nissan or something. This is like a more a more involved.

926
00:50:43,199 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. But what's cool about it is then rather than

927
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,440
just looking at like a few genes at a time,

928
00:50:48,639 --> 00:50:51,000
or you know, we're able to look at the whole

929
00:50:51,159 --> 00:50:54,559
genome and so try to look at every gene, every

930
00:50:54,679 --> 00:50:56,519
like the order the genes are in, but not even

931
00:50:56,559 --> 00:51:00,920
just the genes, the like repetitive elements, like just everything

932
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,119
about that genome and then we can compare it to

933
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,280
all of the other families in the order and try

934
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:07,679
to underlook at patterns.

935
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you look in at everything, coding, non coding regions, repeat,

936
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,440
all that shit. Yeah, and so all that data is

937
00:51:14,639 --> 00:51:16,679
that's got to be millions of base pairs and that's

938
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,440
just stored on I mean, how much storage space does

939
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:20,840
that take.

940
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 1: I'm probably not that much because it's just code, but yeah,

941
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,800
but it's it's once we have it all, it'll all

942
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,519
be publicly available through like open source data basics.

943
00:51:34,599 --> 00:51:37,639
Speaker 2: God, that's cool, that's so cool. But basically, then at

944
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:39,639
the end of the day, you're taking this code, like

945
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,639
the code from one family and then holding it up

946
00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:45,079
against the code from another family and saying where do

947
00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:46,760
they differ? Where are they the same?

948
00:51:47,679 --> 00:51:51,159
Speaker 1: Yeah? Exactly. So there's like just like each of these

949
00:51:51,199 --> 00:51:54,360
plants are have a book, and all the like letters

950
00:51:54,559 --> 00:51:57,039
in the book is the code for making different genes?

951
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,159
Are the words in the book? Are the codes the

952
00:51:59,199 --> 00:52:01,719
different genes? Then we can ask how are the books

953
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:02,679
different from one another?

954
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 2: And then each and then that information tells the story

955
00:52:06,519 --> 00:52:09,719
is how did how did this family you know, evolve

956
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:14,440
differently under different conditions? In a different place than this family,

957
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,719
which then tells a story about the land that it

958
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:20,800
grew on itself and the climate and the period of

959
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,920
time when they were thought to have evolved whatever. Very

960
00:52:24,199 --> 00:52:28,199
totally interesting shit exactly. Yeah, Okay, Well, in this podcast,

961
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,800
I've learned what in Blingia is, which is fucking cool.

962
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,639
I had no idea. That's weird monotype monotypic plant from

963
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,639
West Australia. Okay, but now moving right along tovari ac.

964
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,320
What's up with tovari ac?

965
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,639
Speaker 1: Another kind of like near monotypic depending on what taxonomy,

966
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:50,519
what taxonomy you want to use, But I another one

967
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:53,159
that I am less familiar with but would like to

968
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:59,239
learn more about because it is another weird one. But

969
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:04,039
it is more more like Central and South America and distribution.

970
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:05,320
Uh huh.

971
00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 2: I'm looking at how many.

972
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 1: Not too much information?

973
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: Forty five observations? One another fucking monotypic? Is this monotypic? Two?

974
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 1: It's nearly It depends on how who you ask, like

975
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,880
sometimes two species, sometimes one species. There's one species. I

976
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:27,199
think it's if you're using this taxonomy, I think it's pendula. Yeah, yeah,

977
00:53:27,199 --> 00:53:29,679
that it's only in Jamaica.

978
00:53:30,599 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 2: What the fuck Colombia. These are from Colombia. Wait, only

979
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,480
in Jamaica. Okay, so there's there's like a there might

980
00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:39,119
be some speciation in Jamaica.

981
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:44,079
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so at least it like has some sort

982
00:53:44,119 --> 00:53:49,079
of different morphotypes or characters that folks have been using.

983
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:53,320
But there is no documentation I believe of that in

984
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:58,119
I not. I think it's only kind of known from

985
00:53:58,159 --> 00:54:00,239
her barium records one.

986
00:54:00,679 --> 00:54:06,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, there's nothing. Nothing from Jamaica. And it's Ecuador, Colombia. Yeah,

987
00:54:06,199 --> 00:54:07,519
so like Central America.

988
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's only like a specimen.

989
00:54:11,599 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: Cool flowers though.

990
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:17,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're weird. They're really like flat kind of.

991
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, well but they've got they have this like stigma

992
00:54:21,679 --> 00:54:26,679
that looks like a poppy stigma. Yeah, it's bizarre. It

993
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:32,960
goes up into Mexico supposedly, if those identifications are correct. Yeah,

994
00:54:33,079 --> 00:54:39,559
northeast of Tawakan. Damn, No, that's probably bullshit. That's just

995
00:54:39,559 --> 00:54:43,199
a photo of leaves. I don't know who. No, No,

996
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,360
it does look like it. Fuck wow, shit.

997
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:52,119
Speaker 1: From ars super tropical this one.

998
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, they like moisture. This this thing's grown in arracrus.

999
00:54:55,519 --> 00:54:59,679
That's fucking humans. So god, damn, I didn't realize it's

1000
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:04,079
another another monotypic Okay, okay, moving right along. Uh pented

1001
00:55:04,119 --> 00:55:06,039
did plant? Dracy? What's what's this?

1002
00:55:07,079 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: Oh? I was so excited. This is one that like

1003
00:55:09,039 --> 00:55:11,960
I have my sights on. I'm hoping to figure out

1004
00:55:12,039 --> 00:55:15,519
a way. But it's a really interesting one to me

1005
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,000
because it's a it has a really huge history in

1006
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:28,159
the United States. So a researcher from Wisconsin, uh I

1007
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:35,239
believe was, Yeah, University of Wisconsin scientists firm that collected

1008
00:55:35,239 --> 00:55:39,000
the plant in Gabon, so it's kind of all across

1009
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:47,280
Western Africa, and they extracted this protein is brazen that's

1010
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,280
like a protein based sweeter, so it makes everything you

1011
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,400
eat very very sweet, but it's protein based, and they

1012
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,559
patent it, but there was no benefit sharing in agreement

1013
00:55:56,679 --> 00:56:00,800
with like Gabon or the Gabanese people, and so it's

1014
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,960
kind of been blacklisted as a biopiracy issue, and so

1015
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:09,079
it makes it really complicated. Want and I want to

1016
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:11,840
know about this plant in terms of its evolutionary story.

1017
00:56:12,679 --> 00:56:18,039
I'm not that interested in being any sort of you know, chemicals,

1018
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,639
So then we have to figure out and I've been

1019
00:56:20,679 --> 00:56:24,039
working with a researcher in actually Cameroon to try to

1020
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:27,559
figure out like what we could do and how we

1021
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:31,960
can manage benefit sharing where like the folks that this

1022
00:56:32,079 --> 00:56:35,280
plant is native to have all these benefit sharings because

1023
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,400
you can imagine the type of money someone can make

1024
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:43,639
from a protein based sweetener, and like, how can we

1025
00:56:44,159 --> 00:56:47,639
do this ethically when then our goals are the genomes

1026
00:56:47,679 --> 00:56:51,800
are open source. So it's like I don't have answer.

1027
00:56:52,079 --> 00:56:56,079
Speaker 2: So some guys, some guys basically what do they do?

1028
00:56:56,079 --> 00:56:58,159
Did they sneak this thing out or something and then

1029
00:56:58,559 --> 00:56:59,400
are using it for this?

1030
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,800
Speaker 1: I don't think it was like an intentional I would

1031
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,320
like to think, I guess I'll say I'd like to

1032
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,639
think that it wasn't necessarily an intentional like misuse, but

1033
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,920
that you know, they were setting this plant and brought

1034
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,239
it back and like you know, it was just different

1035
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,199
in how people were going to countries taking plants and

1036
00:57:21,239 --> 00:57:24,480
bringing them back to the US. Like the whole history

1037
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,400
of colonialism is like strong with this history of going

1038
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:32,119
to different countries collecting plants and bringing them back and

1039
00:57:32,239 --> 00:57:35,000
they were lucky found this really interesting sweeteners. If you

1040
00:57:35,039 --> 00:57:37,960
talk to the folks that are native from this region,

1041
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:42,519
like this is every single human there knows this plant.

1042
00:57:42,599 --> 00:57:44,960
It's like so ingrained in the part of the culture,

1043
00:57:45,079 --> 00:57:47,519
so maybe they did know or had some suspect because

1044
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,599
it's like part of the what I've learned from these

1045
00:57:50,639 --> 00:57:52,960
friends and collaborators is that you like can eat the

1046
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,599
berries and then like everything you eat after tastes really sweet.

1047
00:57:56,599 --> 00:57:59,119
So you could eat like like I think this is dramatic,

1048
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:01,239
but like a fish, the fish would be sweet or

1049
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:02,320
like something like.

1050
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,159
Speaker 2: You could eat a dog. You could eat a dog

1051
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:09,960
turn But I mean either way, you know, colonial lizard

1052
00:58:10,119 --> 00:58:13,119
or not, you're like taking like a plant that's culturally

1053
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:15,519
important to people and not hooking the people up when

1054
00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:18,960
they're broke as fucked, you know, compared to you. It's

1055
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:20,400
just kind of a dick move, you know.

1056
00:58:21,079 --> 00:58:23,559
Speaker 3: Like go to Disibler's day, bro, this is really great,

1057
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:25,760
Like we could we could, you know, turn this into

1058
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:30,760
a boutique coffee roastere and with without any consideration of

1059
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:31,719
the repercussions.

1060
00:58:31,719 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 2: Like it's just kind of shitty. It's just going to

1061
00:58:33,519 --> 00:58:34,320
being disrespectible.

1062
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, And I don't know these people. I

1063
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:38,880
have no idea who they are, and I don't know

1064
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:43,199
you know, the reason or how this all happened, but maybe.

1065
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 2: They're fine that they might be fine. When did this happen?

1066
00:58:48,639 --> 00:58:49,159
Speaker 1: When did it?

1067
00:58:49,559 --> 00:58:52,559
Speaker 2: Now? I'm interested in it, pentadip Plandra. I mean because

1068
00:58:52,639 --> 00:58:55,480
it's you know, if anything like this, like no, no

1069
00:58:55,639 --> 00:58:58,280
culture owns a plant, but it's just if you're going

1070
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:03,239
into someone's area and region, it's good to like just

1071
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:07,480
fucking be respectful and cognizant of you know, of hooking

1072
00:59:07,519 --> 00:59:09,800
them up too, instead of just taking someone shit and

1073
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,000
being like, oh, look local, we just found.

1074
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: And now there are laws right with the Nagoya Protocol

1075
00:59:17,719 --> 00:59:20,880
to provide benefit sharing.

1076
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 2: What was that? When is that? Tell everybody what that is?

1077
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: So the Nagoya Protocol is like just written laws that

1078
00:59:31,039 --> 00:59:36,079
helped prevent colonialism and these buyopiracies from happening. It's just

1079
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:41,719
an agreement to the nineteen ninety two Convention on Biological Diversity.

1080
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:46,000
It's called the Nagoya Protocol because it was signed in Nagoya, Japan,

1081
00:59:46,719 --> 00:59:51,199
and I think it started officially being enforced in twenty fourteen.

1082
00:59:52,559 --> 00:59:57,119
But importantly, the US is not a signatory on it.

1083
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 2: But of course I was gonna say if it was Trump,

1084
01:00:01,079 --> 01:00:03,320
that would be like, you know, Trump signs and executive

1085
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,480
or as like fuck this, but it could.

1086
01:00:06,599 --> 01:00:09,599
Speaker 1: I think what I've heard is that they didn't feel

1087
01:00:09,599 --> 01:00:12,559
like it was enough. That's why the US wasn't a signatory,

1088
01:00:12,639 --> 01:00:15,920
not because they didn't want to play by the rules. Yeah,

1089
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:17,639
I don't know one hundred percent sure, that's just like

1090
01:00:17,719 --> 01:00:20,360
what i've heard on that what I've been told, But

1091
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:25,119
it's really focused on genetic resources, specifically the Noglia Protocol.

1092
01:00:26,199 --> 01:00:30,400
So yeah, I still try to just basically follow it.

1093
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,360
And so we tried there, but I believe most of

1094
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,119
the countries are signatories, so you have to play by

1095
01:00:37,119 --> 01:00:41,280
those rules. Yeah, you're supposed to do at least, but

1096
01:00:42,079 --> 01:00:44,159
it's such a it's it's such a cool one. So

1097
01:00:44,639 --> 01:00:47,360
right now we're trying to see I have to actually

1098
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:52,519
send an email to this field botanists in Cameroon to

1099
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:55,559
see if you can get in chart touch with the government.

1100
01:00:55,719 --> 01:00:58,199
So we had, like our legal team kind of look

1101
01:00:58,239 --> 01:01:00,440
at it over and see like what we could do.

1102
01:01:01,039 --> 01:01:03,039
And so the next step is to get in touch

1103
01:01:03,079 --> 01:01:07,559
with the Cameroon legal team to see what they would

1104
01:01:07,639 --> 01:01:10,960
request as benefit sharing. And then how can we when

1105
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,400
we already know there's this patent for this sweetener, how

1106
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,079
do we protect that when we release the genome that's

1107
01:01:17,119 --> 01:01:20,639
open access. I don't know if they can. Yeah.

1108
01:01:21,079 --> 01:01:23,679
Speaker 2: Oh shit, Wow, I didn't know that. Okay, I mean

1109
01:01:23,719 --> 01:01:25,159
I guess you said that. I just maybe it didn't

1110
01:01:25,159 --> 01:01:29,840
hear it. But man, that's yeah, that's kindpplicate Jesus. So

1111
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,239
this is already so they patent. Is it being sold

1112
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:33,000
or something or what?

1113
01:01:34,199 --> 01:01:37,679
Speaker 1: No, it's kind of been as far as I understand,

1114
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:43,000
like not like blacklisted because of the biopiracy. But I

1115
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:45,320
don't know if they like retain the patent or if

1116
01:01:45,519 --> 01:01:48,599
like because it was biopiracy, like the patent goes away.

1117
01:01:48,719 --> 01:01:52,480
I don't I'm not sure, but it is I mean

1118
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,840
from someone who just wants to like understand the evolutionary biology,

1119
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,480
having to learn all this like legal part is like

1120
01:01:58,519 --> 01:02:02,119
something I did not prepare for or like have the

1121
01:02:02,159 --> 01:02:05,519
skills to do, and like truly it's like a whole

1122
01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:09,320
nother career. So it's been an interesting one for me

1123
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,920
in that sense of like wanting to do right by

1124
01:02:12,079 --> 01:02:14,559
the people or this plant is native too, but also

1125
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:16,519
really interested in the evolutionary biology story.

1126
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, presumably there's there's no one growing

1127
01:02:20,039 --> 01:02:23,440
this like in any conservatory in the United States.

1128
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: No, but like even if there was, like what, we

1129
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,880
would sample it, But wouldn't that still be like I

1130
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,639
would not have benefit sharing to the people and you're.

1131
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:35,159
Speaker 2: Still bound by the requirements for benefits sharing.

1132
01:02:35,239 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, technically it probably maybe you wouldn't, but like me

1133
01:02:39,679 --> 01:02:41,199
my personal I feel like I would.

1134
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 2: Well yeah, and if anything, then you're yeah, now you're

1135
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:48,079
like involved in this thing that's sort of that this

1136
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:49,599
ugly story you know.

1137
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, isn't that so interesting? Though, Like I really

1138
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:58,360
don't know what to do? Yeah, anyone have any ideas.

1139
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:01,519
I'm like up for learning.

1140
01:03:02,519 --> 01:03:04,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I could see. I mean, you know,

1141
01:03:04,599 --> 01:03:06,400
at the end of the day, it's like it's you

1142
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,320
didn't have anything to do with it. You're just sampling

1143
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,119
the genome. But then like, yeah, you know, you're someone

1144
01:03:11,119 --> 01:03:12,960
could come at you in a weird way.

1145
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:19,039
Speaker 1: And like the sequence for that that like sweetener would

1146
01:03:19,079 --> 01:03:21,559
be in the genome. And if it's open access, what

1147
01:03:21,599 --> 01:03:25,559
does that mean? Like how do people like if then

1148
01:03:25,599 --> 01:03:29,960
they turn someone takes it and then synthesizes this sweetener

1149
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,800
and then uses it, Like how does the folks so

1150
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:37,119
this plant is growing, like get any of that benefit.

1151
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,719
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, they don't get shipped of course not

1152
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:44,320
of course, you know any any company you see it

1153
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:47,800
like marketed in like a six dollars drink in a

1154
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,480
health food store. But none of that goes back to

1155
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:57,480
no I hate it here anyway, the h but this,

1156
01:03:57,639 --> 01:03:59,639
I mean so, but being a protein based sweetener, what

1157
01:03:59,679 --> 01:04:02,079
does that? What does that mean? Exactly?

1158
01:04:02,599 --> 01:04:06,639
Speaker 1: Like it just lasts long, so instead of like a carbohydrate.

1159
01:04:06,719 --> 01:04:10,360
So I think it would be very useful as my

1160
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:13,719
understanding for like folks with diabetes, or it could be

1161
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,960
like a more slow release, like just would digest it differently,

1162
01:04:18,159 --> 01:04:21,280
the sweetener think a protein is.

1163
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:24,719
Speaker 2: It's a fucking cool plant either way. I mean it's

1164
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:30,199
a tropical broad leave, tropical plant with these giant baseball

1165
01:04:30,239 --> 01:04:35,119
sized fruits that then open up. There's only one observation

1166
01:04:35,199 --> 01:04:39,280
on a naturalists too. Yeah, this is a It opens

1167
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:42,239
up and then there's like, how what is it? Five carpals?

1168
01:04:42,239 --> 01:04:45,199
How many are in there? I can't even see the

1169
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:49,480
thing just stopped anyway? Yeah, six six carpels?

1170
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:55,199
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, So it says here that the brazen, which

1171
01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:59,800
is a chemical, is a brasin useful as a low

1172
01:05:00,039 --> 01:05:02,760
hllary sweetener, but is not yet allowed as a food

1173
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,719
additive in the United States and European Union.

1174
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 2: Because it was ganked.

1175
01:05:07,039 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 1: Basically, that's what I'm guessing.

1176
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, damn oh, it's a sad story. Yeah where Cameroon.

1177
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 1: It's native to Cameroon and Gaban.

1178
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

1179
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,719
Speaker 1: It says that it's five hundred to two thousand times

1180
01:05:28,719 --> 01:05:29,920
sweetener than sucrose.

1181
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 2: Jesus, I know. I'm just curious about the plant, man,

1182
01:05:36,519 --> 01:05:39,360
I would want to what's the the leaves look? Are

1183
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:42,159
they like pinnate? No? Alternate?

1184
01:05:42,199 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 1: I can't tell in the way alternate? I believe.

1185
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,519
Speaker 2: Two basic forms. It can be a much branched shrub

1186
01:05:50,559 --> 01:05:52,360
that can grow up to five meters tall, or a

1187
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,119
climbing plant with stems up to twenty meters tall. What

1188
01:05:55,239 --> 01:05:57,679
the fuck? Oh? The root system in shrubs is a

1189
01:05:57,719 --> 01:06:02,239
branched complex of bulging roots, whilst climbing plants have a large,

1190
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:06,519
fleshy tuber. The root is a very popular traditional medicine

1191
01:06:06,519 --> 01:06:10,079
in Central Africa, where it's commonly harvested from wild for

1192
01:06:10,199 --> 01:06:13,280
local use. In Portraye. The plant also provides an edible fruit,

1193
01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:15,519
which is attracted wider attention because of the very sweet

1194
01:06:15,519 --> 01:06:21,360
tasting protein it contains all right, wow yeah damn. They're

1195
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:25,159
sold from medicinal purposes in local markets and a fruit

1196
01:06:25,239 --> 01:06:27,079
is supposedly used as a fish poison. I guess I

1197
01:06:27,119 --> 01:06:30,400
don't know anyway. Okay, so oh yeah, I didn't know

1198
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:36,480
about that poor fish. Okay, moving moving along, Uh, Gyros,

1199
01:06:36,519 --> 01:06:38,239
We're gonna do the whole file line. We've got six

1200
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,199
families left, gyro stem and.

1201
01:06:40,199 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 1: Ac another one that I am not familiar with but

1202
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:46,639
is in Australia as well.

1203
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,280
Speaker 2: Really is this I wonder if this is monotypic too?

1204
01:06:51,679 --> 01:06:58,159
Uh No, it's not gyro stem the whole the whole

1205
01:06:58,199 --> 01:07:01,280
concept of monotypic, like a clamping monotypic as we're too.

1206
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:03,480
What do you think that's about? Like it just it

1207
01:07:03,519 --> 01:07:07,960
doesn't speciate, there's no radiation. There's what keeps it? What

1208
01:07:08,079 --> 01:07:12,199
keeps it? Like what keeps a genus from like why

1209
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,079
is why are there no more species of Cobralinea? It's

1210
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:17,239
just so good at what it does, Like I don't understand,

1211
01:07:17,239 --> 01:07:18,440
Like what's the constraint there?

1212
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:22,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be either that it didn't seciate, so

1213
01:07:22,599 --> 01:07:24,800
they're just like, yeah, some sort of constraint that we

1214
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:29,639
get to understand. Could be like a geographic you know thing,

1215
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,840
or just a really pollmic I have no idea. Or

1216
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,559
it could be that there was a lot of other

1217
01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:38,559
species and they've gone extinct, but as of now, we

1218
01:07:38,639 --> 01:07:44,559
don't have any fossils to indicate that's the case. So

1219
01:07:44,599 --> 01:07:47,480
those are the two, you know, reasons it just didn't

1220
01:07:47,519 --> 01:07:51,079
seeciate for some you know, some reason, or there was

1221
01:07:51,119 --> 01:07:53,800
a ton but we don't have fossils to show that

1222
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:57,159
there's been extinction in that family or those fossils.

1223
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:00,079
Speaker 2: With all this stuff though, it seems like it's not

1224
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:03,920
speciating me, I don't know, I don't under I mean.

1225
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:09,119
Speaker 1: The most parsimonious, especially because we don't have fossils, right, because.

1226
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,280
Speaker 2: Then you get families like Astoracy or like the fuck

1227
01:08:11,320 --> 01:08:13,960
the genus on Nathra for christ sakes, how many species?

1228
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:16,159
Like that's a nightmare of a genus because it's like,

1229
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,119
you know, there's so many of them, and there they

1230
01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:23,199
can the differences can be very subtle. There's so many

1231
01:08:23,199 --> 01:08:26,399
of them, especially in arid areas.

1232
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the other thing to think about that,

1233
01:08:30,199 --> 01:08:32,920
it's like, I don't know, this gets into taxonomy and

1234
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:37,199
like decisions like so if you look at like salvador

1235
01:08:37,239 --> 01:08:40,119
ace and bat as, they form a clade, so they're

1236
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:43,439
their sister to one another. So those are two separate

1237
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,159
families and if you think about them there they like

1238
01:08:46,279 --> 01:08:49,359
are live in different parts of the world. They have

1239
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:54,760
incredibly different morphology. But we could collapse that to be

1240
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,600
one family and those are just different like genera or

1241
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:02,720
different parts of the family. But I don't know, that's

1242
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:08,560
like the decision of this the taxonomous right where, Yeah.

1243
01:09:08,359 --> 01:09:10,039
Speaker 2: I guess there's that too. You have to understand, you

1244
01:09:10,079 --> 01:09:12,560
have families are still a human construct. Plant families are

1245
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,239
still a human construct to just denote levels of differentiation,

1246
01:09:17,279 --> 01:09:17,479
you know.

1247
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,239
Speaker 1: But if you look at central lanthis and Layman these

1248
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:24,359
Layman thesy for example, those are just like single lineages.

1249
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,560
Like I don't like, you can't really condense it. So

1250
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,239
I don't know if it's interesting to think about that.

1251
01:09:30,279 --> 01:09:31,319
Speaker 2: You mean you can't condense it?

1252
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:34,199
Speaker 1: What do you mean, Like they're like I can lump

1253
01:09:34,279 --> 01:09:37,560
them branches on the Yeah, like you would have to

1254
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:42,039
like lump the entire Like if you wanted to lump

1255
01:09:43,039 --> 01:09:45,520
Laman thecy for example, you would have to include it

1256
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:49,000
with battascy salvator ac and all the other like cleo

1257
01:09:49,039 --> 01:09:52,680
acy brassa cacy because of where it's positioned in the cladogram.

1258
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 2: Uh huh is it? But is that according to the

1259
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,119
genome though? I wonder like how you know if you

1260
01:09:58,159 --> 01:10:00,319
look at this codes.

1261
01:10:00,039 --> 01:10:07,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so this is based on a chloroplas phylogeny,

1262
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:11,399
but I think my nuclear phylogeny matched it pretty well.

1263
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 2: So do you think do you think that? I mean,

1264
01:10:15,039 --> 01:10:21,720
as whole genome sequencing becomes more common, it's gonna it's

1265
01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,079
gonna like shake up taxonomy again, Like is it gonna

1266
01:10:26,079 --> 01:10:28,119
I mean, not probably at any great level, but maybe

1267
01:10:28,119 --> 01:10:30,680
certain families will be lumped together or something like that.

1268
01:10:31,680 --> 01:10:33,399
Speaker 1: I think we thought it would right when you have

1269
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,680
like the whole book, you should be able to know everything, right,

1270
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,439
But then what we find is that that's not necessarily true.

1271
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:45,399
Sometimes things have speciated so close in time that we

1272
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:50,279
cannot resolve like the order that they speciated, Like it

1273
01:10:50,319 --> 01:10:52,359
happened so quick that we just don't have that type

1274
01:10:52,359 --> 01:10:55,600
of resolution, Like we can't look back in time at

1275
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,720
that sort of detail. So some things I don't think

1276
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:03,399
we'll ever be able to like, like you know, understand

1277
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:07,399
but also the assumption that everything bifurcated. That like, if

1278
01:11:07,399 --> 01:11:11,079
you have a population of organism, some species that they

1279
01:11:11,159 --> 01:11:14,840
always split in two, it is not unreasonable to think

1280
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:17,960
that it's split in three, are split in four. Like,

1281
01:11:18,159 --> 01:11:22,560
so when we build trees, it's resolved when we make

1282
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:26,600
them bifurcating, unless we're looking at like a reticulate or

1283
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:30,279
evolution or more of a web. So my personal belief

1284
01:11:30,359 --> 01:11:33,600
is that most things probably are more weblike in their

1285
01:11:34,159 --> 01:11:37,880
their tree. It's more like a shrub than like a tree.

1286
01:11:38,319 --> 01:11:42,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you say weblike, explain what you mean by that.

1287
01:11:43,319 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 1: So rather than just like you have a line and

1288
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:49,359
then a bifurcating note, or like things dividing into two,

1289
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,800
it divides into three, divides into four, like if I'm

1290
01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:55,279
a single point mm hm, that makes sense.

1291
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:58,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, so more in other words, it's not as simple

1292
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:01,920
as we try to make it. And I think with brassica,

1293
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:04,600
what's what's interesting is that, and especially with whole genome

1294
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:08,399
duplication with polyploid is that I think a lot of

1295
01:12:08,399 --> 01:12:10,800
this might like do you think these these kind of

1296
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:13,560
events where like a new family evolves, Like do you

1297
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:17,279
think it happens overnight? Instead of in baby steps like

1298
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:22,520
some cases of speciation, do you know where like, because

1299
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:24,119
that's a way for it to happen over that I mean,

1300
01:12:24,119 --> 01:12:28,920
if if the whole genome just randomly duplicates during a

1301
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:35,319
hybridization event, there's or you know whatever, whatever's produced during

1302
01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:40,880
genetical combination during plant sex, or there's a mutation whatever.

1303
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:44,199
I mean, do you think that that's kind of what's

1304
01:12:44,279 --> 01:12:44,920
going on here?

1305
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,800
Speaker 1: For sure, that whole genome duplication can lead to a speciation.

1306
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:52,560
We definitely have seen that to be true across the

1307
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:55,960
plant on tree of life. So that could be just

1308
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:58,000
like the major mode that this group has been using.

1309
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 2: And then when it's got, when you've got when your

1310
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:03,399
whole genome is duplicated, it's kind of hard. Now you're

1311
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:05,960
so different from the population you just arose out of

1312
01:13:06,359 --> 01:13:11,920
you can't really mix with them anymore. You can't, so

1313
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:15,600
you're you're already isolated. The isolation for speciations already there.

1314
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:17,560
This is makes sense.

1315
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:23,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, yeah, so basically right, so how you know,

1316
01:13:23,279 --> 01:13:26,359
no matter so when you get the whole genome duplication,

1317
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:31,119
you're isolated from that progenitor you know, species or so

1318
01:13:31,199 --> 01:13:35,960
sometimes you know it'll be you can have whole genome

1319
01:13:36,039 --> 01:13:39,479
duplication within like many different ways which we don't have

1320
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:43,600
to get into. But I think in some cases it

1321
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:48,439
likely will end to speciation events.

1322
01:13:49,119 --> 01:13:52,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, in some cases, right, not always, but that's definitely

1323
01:13:52,159 --> 01:13:53,319
how it.

1324
01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,239
Speaker 1: I think many of them will probably not. I think

1325
01:13:56,279 --> 01:13:58,439
probably more of them don't survive than survive. But we

1326
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:00,279
don't know. This is all like open question.

1327
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,640
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, I'm yeah, like with the brass of

1328
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:06,079
Chailles order, how many families what twelve or fifteen or

1329
01:14:06,119 --> 01:14:10,560
something and we're talking I mean, how many eighteen eighteen?

1330
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:13,880
And we're talking this I mean goes back millions of years.

1331
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:19,239
What's the what's the what's the estimated origin evolutionary age

1332
01:14:19,279 --> 01:14:23,600
of the order, probably like ECN or something older.

1333
01:14:26,079 --> 01:14:29,640
Speaker 1: I know, I do know this. I am just.

1334
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 2: Liking fifty million years. I'm gonna just throw it out there,

1335
01:14:33,079 --> 01:14:34,920
just fifty million years of and I've seen that it

1336
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:38,840
seems like a good time for angiosperm diversity, you know,

1337
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:40,960
I think I think that might be the age of

1338
01:14:41,079 --> 01:14:46,079
astracy two. You know, dinosaurs have been gone what really.

1339
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 1: One hundred and eight million years ago is their best?

1340
01:14:49,119 --> 01:14:53,159
Speaker 2: Oh fuck? Wow? So this is an old order.

1341
01:14:54,159 --> 01:14:54,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1342
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:58,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're only seeing a fragment, of course, of what

1343
01:14:58,279 --> 01:14:59,000
has existed.

1344
01:15:00,199 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, exactly. You know. It's a cool cool okay.

1345
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,239
Speaker 2: So anyway, So back to Gyros stemenac. So this is

1346
01:15:07,279 --> 01:15:09,920
all Australian m yep.

1347
01:15:10,199 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 1: And it's pretty like widespread across Australia.

1348
01:15:13,279 --> 01:15:18,520
Speaker 2: Seventeen species on in app probably more. Codona carpus cotinofolio

1349
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:20,640
seems to be one of the most dominant. God, the

1350
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:23,720
habitat looks cool. Where this thing is from Gyra's stemen

1351
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:28,239
and Codona carpus and these are dry land plants. Do

1352
01:15:28,279 --> 01:15:29,760
you know are you familiar with any more of the

1353
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:30,760
genera in there?

1354
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:34,920
Speaker 1: No? I haven't. I should have looked for them, but

1355
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:37,319
I didn't. It's a cool one though.

1356
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 2: God, Central Australia's so fucking cool man. This isn't even

1357
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:44,359
Central Australia. This is just Inland. I mean, I've I've

1358
01:15:44,399 --> 01:15:49,439
been to Australia. I've been to Tasmania, Melbourne, Perth. I've

1359
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,920
never been to like Inland, anywhere where it's fucking really

1360
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:54,520
hot and dry. I've never been. I want to go

1361
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:58,760
to Queensland. I mean, there's so many there's a lot

1362
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:00,720
of places I want to check out, but I've never

1363
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:02,359
been to any of the super dry areas.

1364
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 1: It's it's fun, gotta bet.

1365
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:10,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the cool cast arrhinas and stuff, and yeah,

1366
01:16:10,319 --> 01:16:11,960
I mean and just I think the cool thing for

1367
01:16:12,039 --> 01:16:16,119
me is just seeing seeing similar, like the same traits

1368
01:16:16,119 --> 01:16:20,239
and plants I know from you know, nine thousand miles

1369
01:16:20,239 --> 01:16:22,560
away from arid areas, nine thousand miles away. That's the

1370
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:24,960
coolest thing about traveling to sea plants. For me, It's like,

1371
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:28,039
oh shit, this is doing the same thing that. In

1372
01:16:28,079 --> 01:16:31,039
other words, the environment is selecting for the same traits,

1373
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:35,199
and the environment itself is breeding the plant. The environment

1374
01:16:35,319 --> 01:16:38,279
is breeding the same traits in a plant that it's

1375
01:16:38,399 --> 01:16:41,880
being bred in a similar environment with a different cast

1376
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:45,920
of plant lineages and families over here. It's so fucking

1377
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:46,800
cool to see, man.

1378
01:16:47,239 --> 01:16:49,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like you're such a wealth of knowledge. It's so

1379
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:51,640
cool to be able to like see that, that's like

1380
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:53,760
because you're such a good field bonus and know that

1381
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:56,319
there's like these groups so well, that's just really cool.

1382
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:59,000
Speaker 2: That's so it's so cool to see. It's so wild. Yeah, man,

1383
01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:01,800
photosynthetic stent. Some of the leaves look some of the

1384
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:07,840
branching looks spiny, obviously resisting bevery leaves are you know,

1385
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:13,840
the surface area is way reduced. The flowers on these

1386
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:21,239
look fucking nuts. Gyrostemon Australia Australasicus australasicus. Yeah, these these

1387
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:24,920
flowers look fucking nuts. Man, you gotta get some of these.

1388
01:17:25,720 --> 01:17:26,680
Have you got any of these?

1389
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, no, trying to trying to figure that out. Still,

1390
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:36,720
eventually we'll figure it out. They're so pretty.

1391
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:40,119
Speaker 2: We're going down the whole list. I didn't I didn't

1392
01:17:40,159 --> 01:17:41,760
intend to do this when we started to call it,

1393
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:44,039
I just think this. I'm just looking at the I

1394
01:17:44,039 --> 01:17:48,119
didn't intend to go through the whole brassicle's phylogeny, you know.

1395
01:17:49,119 --> 01:17:51,720
But while we're here, I figure what this?

1396
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:54,439
Speaker 1: They're just so cool? How can we stop?

1397
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? And then okay, so and then and then residacy,

1398
01:17:59,119 --> 01:18:04,079
which is that's where that weird? That's a fucking weird one.

1399
01:18:04,159 --> 01:18:07,800
The only plant I know from that is Wow, that's

1400
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:11,279
got sixty two species in it. Jesus, wait, where is

1401
01:18:11,319 --> 01:18:14,880
the one I where's the one I know? Aligo maris linafolia, Yeah,

1402
01:18:15,319 --> 01:18:18,239
which we get that in South Texas. We get it into

1403
01:18:18,239 --> 01:18:20,359
Mohave and then it's in like Iran.

1404
01:18:22,079 --> 01:18:23,399
Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, it's.

1405
01:18:23,279 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 2: A weird disjunct. What the fuck? I don't know. And

1406
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:29,359
I think it's like yeah, and it's not widespread like

1407
01:18:29,359 --> 01:18:33,520
on iinad it's like the American Southwest and then like uh,

1408
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:36,079
like Saudi Arabia and like southern Iraq.

1409
01:18:37,399 --> 01:18:39,039
Speaker 1: Weird, Yeah, what the fuck? Oh?

1410
01:18:39,119 --> 01:18:41,239
Speaker 2: And I guess there's some I mean, and you know,

1411
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,239
who knows. Maybe this is like last few hundred years,

1412
01:18:45,279 --> 01:18:49,199
but I don't think. I think the collections were pretty

1413
01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:54,159
early on of where. Okay, but anyway, sorry, so what's

1414
01:18:54,239 --> 01:18:57,399
up with this whole family sixty two? Species? Residacy?

1415
01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:03,079
Speaker 1: I like, it's definitely an understudied one. I really like residency.

1416
01:19:04,359 --> 01:19:09,239
There's just like some really interesting like like stories with

1417
01:19:09,399 --> 01:19:13,199
residacy one. It smells like so crazy that especially Resida.

1418
01:19:14,079 --> 01:19:18,119
So I grew resident. But the first time they think

1419
01:19:18,159 --> 01:19:20,560
Pliny the Elder is the first person that like us

1420
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:23,720
the name Resida. So it's like so cool to go

1421
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:26,439
all the way back then. And then I think it's

1422
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:28,800
one of the I'm trying to double check myself. Yeah.

1423
01:19:29,039 --> 01:19:33,119
Resida or data was used by Charles Darwin. In his

1424
01:19:33,159 --> 01:19:36,520
studies on self fertilization plans, so he like talked about it.

1425
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,920
So it has this like this crazy history but like

1426
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:43,680
it's kind of understudied in a lot of ways, but

1427
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:47,319
it's it's a cool group. There needs more attention with.

1428
01:19:47,359 --> 01:19:51,279
Speaker 2: There's like ten gen era maybe eleven? Who was Who?

1429
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,119
Who was Pliny the Elder? What do you do? Who's

1430
01:19:54,159 --> 01:19:56,039
this guy? He was a Greek.

1431
01:19:57,359 --> 01:20:00,359
Speaker 1: Roman philosopher naturalists.

1432
01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:02,399
Speaker 2: Oh he was a naturalist. I didn't know that.

1433
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:11,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, m hmm, Like he wrote the Naturalists Historica. So

1434
01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:16,520
it was like this huge book on everything in the

1435
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:17,239
natural world.

1436
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 2: Wow, no, ship, I didn't know that. So this is

1437
01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:23,199
a guy that definitely liked he was into plants. He

1438
01:20:23,279 --> 01:20:30,079
appreciated him, Yeah he did. Okay and uh okay, So

1439
01:20:30,239 --> 01:20:34,000
moving on down. What else do we got left? Capa

1440
01:20:34,079 --> 01:20:35,720
racey the Caper family.

1441
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:39,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, who doesn't like cape raise on their bagels and locks?

1442
01:20:40,199 --> 01:20:42,239
Speaker 2: What are what are capers? They're like a pickled It's

1443
01:20:42,279 --> 01:20:45,760
like a pickled little sphere. I'm not even that familiar.

1444
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:48,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like really like they're really salky.

1445
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, yeah, how big is this? This is

1446
01:20:53,039 --> 01:20:54,000
kind of a big family.

1447
01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 1: So we're getting into the last like three. So Brassa, Casey,

1448
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:01,600
Cape Racey and Cleo Macy are the largest, like they're

1449
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:02,560
the most specios.

1450
01:21:03,319 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 2: Oh shit, I didn't know that. Yeah. I think let's

1451
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:10,319
see how many, how many observations of the Caper family.

1452
01:21:10,359 --> 01:21:13,119
I know there's a rare one from South Texas, but

1453
01:21:13,159 --> 01:21:15,800
there's so much rare stuff done here because everything gets annihilated.

1454
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:20,560
So quadrilla, oh, quadrilla, Oh, quadrilla Indica. Yeah, I just

1455
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:25,880
saw that in Costa Rica Bashia, Feta. Where the fuck?

1456
01:21:26,199 --> 01:21:27,720
Oh this has got to be This is in South

1457
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:30,119
Africa Bashia.

1458
01:21:31,359 --> 01:21:35,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, they're cool. They're all cool. I'm so biased,

1459
01:21:35,119 --> 01:21:38,600
but yeah, so what was fun was on I was

1460
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:43,720
looking at Braska and the Mediterranean, so in the genus Brassica,

1461
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:46,720
and it was almost always like near a keep race.

1462
01:21:47,119 --> 01:21:49,359
So they like each other, they're good friends.

1463
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:52,119
Speaker 2: Wow. And what's the I mean the fital chemistry then

1464
01:21:52,199 --> 01:21:57,000
is the same I assume for yeah, like lucosinola, it's

1465
01:21:57,039 --> 01:22:01,079
probably like a pungent I mean, yeah, obviously Caper's pungent smell,

1466
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:03,520
but they're mostly all tropical or what.

1467
01:22:05,439 --> 01:22:09,600
Speaker 1: Are they? I think I think they're everywhere I think

1468
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:12,720
I caught like across global I'm.

1469
01:22:12,600 --> 01:22:15,880
Speaker 2: Not seeing them at the higher latitudes. Well, I guess

1470
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:18,680
there's yeah, South Africa, at least in the United States,

1471
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:19,840
they're not really.

1472
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:21,960
Speaker 1: Oh I see yeah, yeah.

1473
01:22:22,039 --> 01:22:27,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like southern like Florida, South Texas, Southwest Ooh,

1474
01:22:27,199 --> 01:22:32,960
what's in Baja? This seems interesting? What is down air? Oh?

1475
01:22:33,039 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the south two species?

1476
01:22:36,079 --> 01:22:39,159
Speaker 2: Okay, so this thing is diversified and breaking with the

1477
01:22:39,159 --> 01:22:44,000
tradition of the Brassickelees. This this family has many species

1478
01:22:44,039 --> 01:22:45,199
and many genera in it.

1479
01:22:46,279 --> 01:22:50,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yeah, these ones are species diverse for sure.

1480
01:22:50,680 --> 01:22:52,640
Speaker 2: And then okay, now we're going to the fun one

1481
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:56,000
Cleo may Sy which, of course bladder pod in California

1482
01:22:56,079 --> 01:22:59,600
Mojave desert plant, really distinct plant. Anyone who spent time

1483
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:03,960
in the day deserts of California is familiar with. What

1484
01:23:04,119 --> 01:23:07,119
is that? I can't remember the genus name of bladder

1485
01:23:07,199 --> 01:23:07,760
pot again?

1486
01:23:09,319 --> 01:23:11,600
Speaker 1: Is it Clomela? I think so.

1487
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:15,880
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it in four years, so I can't Yeah,

1488
01:23:16,279 --> 01:23:19,279
maybe is it Cliomela? Goddamn.

1489
01:23:19,359 --> 01:23:22,720
Speaker 1: The group just gone has just gone under a pretty

1490
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:28,840
big taxonomic change. It was just published. They're working on

1491
01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:30,960
it right now. So this is yeah, lots of folks

1492
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:37,960
are working on the.

1493
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:38,680
Speaker 2: These are these These are some stinky ones. Yeah, we

1494
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:44,840
get polynicia in Texas. Uh, some really cool ones to Polynicia, Dodochondra,

1495
01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:47,159
polynesia erosa.

1496
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:52,359
Speaker 1: They're really pretty and sticky.

1497
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:58,039
Speaker 2: Is it Cliomela to soifolia? Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah,

1498
01:23:58,079 --> 01:24:01,479
there's yeah, very stinky, very stick he, very glandular, really

1499
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:06,600
cool flowers. Someone who's you know, just a lay person

1500
01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:08,800
might say, oh, it looks like an orchid like. The

1501
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:13,359
flowers got that kind of oh very Uh. I mean

1502
01:24:13,399 --> 01:24:14,880
to me, it looks nothing like an orca. But I

1503
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:18,079
can see how someone would say that, you know, yeah,

1504
01:24:18,239 --> 01:24:23,520
triffid trifolia leaves offen and waxy like, really waxy like.

1505
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:28,159
I don't think any of these things have hairs. Whoa carsonia,

1506
01:24:28,199 --> 01:24:31,479
sparse folia? Wear the shit that I see that Manhattan, Nevada,

1507
01:24:32,239 --> 01:24:37,920
it's over there a boy Tonapa to Nopa, got Nevada.

1508
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:40,319
I miss Nevada. God, it's so fucking nice being out

1509
01:24:40,319 --> 01:24:42,279
in the middle of nowhere there. The whole state is

1510
01:24:42,319 --> 01:24:45,199
public land. Have you spent much time in Nevada.

1511
01:24:47,239 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 1: Just Las Vegas?

1512
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I learned the run freight trains in northern

1513
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:55,239
Nevada between sparks and alcohol, basically going across the whole

1514
01:24:55,319 --> 01:24:58,239
northern half of the state, and it was it's just

1515
01:24:58,279 --> 01:25:00,800
one of the most beautiful places and so empty too,

1516
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:05,359
and like like filled with nut jobs in its own way.

1517
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:08,560
But like their wing, that's enough. You can appreciate them,

1518
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:11,039
you know, just don't get them talking about certain subjects.

1519
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:13,880
But god, there's some cool plants.

1520
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:18,079
Speaker 1: Cleo Macy is really cool. We had one really cool

1521
01:25:18,119 --> 01:25:22,720
trait about the Macy is that it has C four photosynthesis,

1522
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:29,079
so rather than the traditional C three photosynthesis?

1523
01:25:29,199 --> 01:25:29,399
Speaker 2: Is it?

1524
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:29,720
Speaker 1: Though?

1525
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:32,680
Speaker 2: How many families in Brasiclees do that? Is this the

1526
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:33,800
only one?

1527
01:25:34,199 --> 01:25:38,479
Speaker 1: So true? Like C four I think is just in

1528
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:41,600
Cleo Macy. Let me double check myself.

1529
01:25:41,760 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 2: So it's using those bundle sheaths, uh cells, yeah, yeah.

1530
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:53,239
Speaker 1: Let's see Cleo Macy and there is some Embrassic cacy.

1531
01:25:54,239 --> 01:25:56,399
Speaker 2: Oh wow, do you know?

1532
01:25:56,479 --> 01:25:58,199
Speaker 1: Okay four?

1533
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:02,159
Speaker 2: Since we're about to move on to the the family

1534
01:26:02,399 --> 01:26:04,640
and Cleo Mace is sister to Brassa Casey, we should

1535
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:06,000
mess it to since we're about to move on to

1536
01:26:06,000 --> 01:26:10,439
Brassic Casey, do you know I've heard that Brassic, like

1537
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:13,079
Brassic Casey, is one of the only families that doesn't

1538
01:26:13,119 --> 01:26:16,279
associate with micro ryzel fungi, which I don't believe. I

1539
01:26:16,319 --> 01:26:19,640
don't think that's true. That might be bad. It probably

1540
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:22,000
is bad inform I forget where I read that, because

1541
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:25,039
everything does a little. It's at least the Glomero my

1542
01:26:25,159 --> 01:26:28,159
seeds like Glomero my coda. But do you know anything

1543
01:26:28,199 --> 01:26:31,079
about that about Michael Rizel associations in the order?

1544
01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:35,840
Speaker 1: In the order? I don't think I have heard anything

1545
01:26:36,680 --> 01:26:37,840
that interesting, though.

1546
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was just the family. I think

1547
01:26:39,800 --> 01:26:42,479
it was just Brassic Casey. But then I'm curious about

1548
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:45,560
if that one. If that's true, it's I don't think

1549
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:47,920
it's true, but it might be that it's highly reduced

1550
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:50,720
that they don't associate with Michael riise as much as

1551
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:53,399
other families. And I'm wondering why, you know, like, what

1552
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:56,840
would it be that they're able to somehow access nutrients

1553
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:59,479
without what is it about their root morphology that they're

1554
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:02,439
somehow able to access nutrients without needing fungi?

1555
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:08,399
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know that's interesting. So I just

1556
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:13,199
kind of double checked in this one paper popped up

1557
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:18,199
that is in lapidium, which is brass Casey, and it

1558
01:27:18,279 --> 01:27:23,439
talks about dormancy by fun guy. I don't know, so

1559
01:27:23,479 --> 01:27:25,439
I don't know. That's a really interesting question.

1560
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:27,840
Speaker 2: I could also be entirely full of shit. This could

1561
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:31,319
be bad information, but I remember I think it was

1562
01:27:31,359 --> 01:27:33,880
on a book ine on Michael Rise that I read this.

1563
01:27:33,960 --> 01:27:36,560
It's either highly reduced. I don't think they would have

1564
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:38,920
said it's not there at all, because that's impossible to know,

1565
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,119
or maybe that it hasn't been found yet, but I

1566
01:27:42,159 --> 01:27:44,920
think probably since then it has because I don't know,

1567
01:27:45,319 --> 01:27:46,720
at least with Glamara.

1568
01:27:46,319 --> 01:27:50,039
Speaker 1: And Nakota, but I know it's super interesting.

1569
01:27:50,199 --> 01:27:52,159
Speaker 2: Okay, before we move on to the Brassic Casey, anything

1570
01:27:52,159 --> 01:27:54,000
else you want to say about cleam I see anything

1571
01:27:54,039 --> 01:27:54,920
notable about them?

1572
01:27:56,000 --> 01:27:58,600
Speaker 1: Now they're just the sea. I mean doing C four

1573
01:27:58,680 --> 01:27:59,960
Khoto synthesis is really cool.

1574
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:04,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is it's pretty Yeah, that's pretty notable, and

1575
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:09,560
it shows it shows adaptation to really hot places, which

1576
01:28:09,640 --> 01:28:14,000
is where you can find a lot of them. So okay,

1577
01:28:14,039 --> 01:28:18,399
So Brassa Casey, the big, the big one. Now what's

1578
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:26,039
I mean? Obviously so many food crops, human nutrition, polyploidy, rampant.

1579
01:28:26,279 --> 01:28:30,439
Uh you know, cold robbie, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli, all

1580
01:28:30,479 --> 01:28:33,680
the same species. Technically, is that correct?

1581
01:28:34,640 --> 01:28:35,600
Speaker 1: Yeah? Exactly.

1582
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:39,039
Speaker 2: It takes very Yeah, it takes very kindly to human

1583
01:28:39,079 --> 01:28:43,279
domestication apparently and human selection. What else.

1584
01:28:45,199 --> 01:28:49,239
Speaker 1: There is? So the Brassa casey, it's also where we

1585
01:28:49,319 --> 01:28:52,079
have like the model plant. So the first genome I

1586
01:28:52,079 --> 01:28:55,079
ever got for a plant is a rabbit Opsis salina

1587
01:28:55,159 --> 01:28:57,920
and it's a Brassa cacy. So like everything that we

1588
01:28:58,000 --> 01:29:01,800
know about like genes and you know, how they control

1589
01:29:01,880 --> 01:29:04,600
different traits is a lot of that work has been

1590
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:08,079
done in brass case in a rabit Opsis. So it's

1591
01:29:08,119 --> 01:29:10,479
like this powerhouse for genetic models.

1592
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:11,079
Speaker 2: Uh.

1593
01:29:11,279 --> 01:29:14,119
Speaker 1: And so it's kind of cool because you have this

1594
01:29:14,359 --> 01:29:18,760
really important plant that has a ton of resources that thousands,

1595
01:29:18,760 --> 01:29:21,800
if not more people work across the world on. But

1596
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:24,479
then it's closely related to all these cool plants that

1597
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:28,119
we just talked about today. So you can really then

1598
01:29:28,359 --> 01:29:30,720
like kind of take what we've learned from A rabit

1599
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:34,159
oxis and apply outward to some of these really cool species.

1600
01:29:35,079 --> 01:29:38,359
Speaker 2: One of the things why was ais Why is that?

1601
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:40,560
Why was that picked as the model plant? Like why

1602
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:41,039
do you know.

1603
01:29:40,960 --> 01:29:44,279
Speaker 1: Why that is Yeah, so it has a small genome.

1604
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:47,840
So one thing that's true for most of these that

1605
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:50,920
we know so far is that they all have relatively

1606
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:53,439
small genomes, which makes doing a lot of this genetic

1607
01:29:53,479 --> 01:29:56,159
work a little easier because the continue the genome a

1608
01:29:56,239 --> 01:30:01,399
little easier, And so that's why it was chosen originally. Yeah.

1609
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:04,760
Speaker 2: So, I mean, and when you say most of these

1610
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:06,960
have small gems, you're done about every family and Brassic

1611
01:30:07,039 --> 01:30:08,800
Kyley's that.

1612
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:11,840
Speaker 1: We've looked at so far. So we're we're we're just

1613
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:13,720
you know, we're just doing this. We're still in the

1614
01:30:13,720 --> 01:30:17,640
process of collecting tissue and trying to find these plants,

1615
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:19,880
so we're still figuring it all out. But so far

1616
01:30:20,119 --> 01:30:20,840
that's true.

1617
01:30:21,279 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 2: So how long how long do you think this whole

1618
01:30:23,000 --> 01:30:24,000
project's going to take you?

1619
01:30:24,039 --> 01:30:28,479
Speaker 1: And it could be a while, Yeah, probably so once like,

1620
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:31,520
once we get these genomes done, we'll release them as

1621
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:33,319
we get them done, but kind of to have a

1622
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:37,119
full project, I think it'll probably take us a couple

1623
01:30:37,359 --> 01:30:37,960
more years.

1624
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 2: Oh wait, did we did we talk about a Canny

1625
01:30:40,920 --> 01:30:41,880
A c I don't think we did.

1626
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:44,239
Speaker 1: That's another just at the beginning.

1627
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:49,199
Speaker 2: That's another Australasian family. God this thing looks fucking weird too,

1628
01:30:49,359 --> 01:30:53,319
got it? Man, I'm learning so much today about plants

1629
01:30:53,319 --> 01:30:56,479
from all around the world. I had no idea existed

1630
01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:04,600
family of canny ac two genera a Cania and bretch Nidera.

1631
01:31:04,039 --> 01:31:07,880
Speaker 1: Which I think are both mono tipic, Like there are

1632
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:10,319
only one species and both are Mana.

1633
01:31:10,399 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, brech Nidera snensis and Kanya Bidwilli I, which

1634
01:31:16,079 --> 01:31:18,359
that that species up at that bid Willy I tells

1635
01:31:18,359 --> 01:31:23,640
you it's Australian. Uh, both look fucking weird and cool.

1636
01:31:24,079 --> 01:31:27,800
And let me see if there's what photos are there? Yeah?

1637
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:28,359
Speaker 1: What? So?

1638
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:30,960
Speaker 2: Okay? Going back to this one though, So what do

1639
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:33,479
you know about this? Have you been able to collect

1640
01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:36,399
material for this or get your hands on material.

1641
01:31:38,520 --> 01:31:44,880
Speaker 1: This one nor one more on the list? I haven't

1642
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:46,600
been able to. I really hope we can get all.

1643
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:51,920
It's kind of like a goal. But yeah, trying to

1644
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:53,600
do it, Like it'd be easy if I just like

1645
01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:57,319
didn't try to follow any good protocols.

1646
01:31:57,359 --> 01:32:00,840
Speaker 2: But you know, no, you're You're not me. You're doing

1647
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:06,079
it the right way. Just collecting, throwing the fucking notebooks somewhere,

1648
01:32:06,199 --> 01:32:11,720
be fine, put it in here. Damn, this is okay,

1649
01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:14,560
so yeah, like a race seam of white flower, white

1650
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:19,800
pinkish white flowers, golf ball sized to marble sized, and

1651
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:23,039
then a fruit with like an orange seed in it.

1652
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:29,159
What the fuck? Damn? I see these things and then

1653
01:32:29,199 --> 01:32:31,319
I see like pictures of habitat and I'm just like, man,

1654
01:32:31,359 --> 01:32:33,680
what what else grows there? It's so cool?

1655
01:32:34,039 --> 01:32:36,399
Speaker 1: Super serrated leaves too.

1656
01:32:38,199 --> 01:32:41,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what. Yeah, one species in Asia and

1657
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:48,920
one species in Australia, probably very old lineage. So anyway,

1658
01:32:48,960 --> 01:32:50,640
all right, well, I guess that sums up the Brasic

1659
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:51,720
Kyle's order.

1660
01:32:52,039 --> 01:32:57,079
Speaker 1: Uh. I can always talk about Brassica more. That's like

1661
01:32:57,159 --> 01:33:01,079
what I've been focusing mostly on is brascol Erasia. That's

1662
01:33:01,079 --> 01:33:02,319
a whole other podcast.

1663
01:33:03,079 --> 01:33:06,159
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. But are you going back to Namibia at

1664
01:33:06,159 --> 01:33:06,880
any point soon?

1665
01:33:08,359 --> 01:33:10,399
Speaker 1: I always hope I'm going back to Namibia, But I

1666
01:33:10,479 --> 01:33:13,680
have nothing planned at the moment, have it. Maybe you're

1667
01:33:13,800 --> 01:33:16,079
gonna plan something eventually try to get back there.

1668
01:33:16,199 --> 01:33:19,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna, yeah, definitely, definitely. It was. It's I mean,

1669
01:33:19,239 --> 01:33:22,960
there's so much good stuff and I love I mean,

1670
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:26,359
it's like one of the best arid plant habitats in

1671
01:33:26,359 --> 01:33:28,880
the world too. So and that's like my jam. So

1672
01:33:29,800 --> 01:33:31,920
though I have been getting into the tropics lately though,

1673
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:37,159
so's that's nice. The Costa Rica was Costa Rica surprised me.

1674
01:33:37,239 --> 01:33:39,920
I thought it was not going to be as fucking

1675
01:33:40,119 --> 01:33:42,680
crazy as it was, and man, it was amazing. Yeah,

1676
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:46,159
there's just such diversity of habitat, from paramo to oak

1677
01:33:46,239 --> 01:33:48,840
forests at like nine thousand feet to the dry forest

1678
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:52,920
in the northwest where there's cacti growing with Borceros simaruba

1679
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:56,920
in the shade of these like drought deciduous uh, you know,

1680
01:33:57,199 --> 01:34:00,960
dry forest trees that are towering and with monkeys that

1681
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:03,399
are trying to pee on you. It was amazing. It

1682
01:34:03,479 --> 01:34:07,239
was fucking The monkeys are intimidating. You could those little

1683
01:34:07,239 --> 01:34:09,479
bastards if they mobbed up on you, like twenty deep,

1684
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:13,520
they could really do some damage. You know. They're cute there,

1685
01:34:14,119 --> 01:34:16,920
but so weird being around other primate.

1686
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:22,199
Speaker 1: Species and like, yeah, sometimes they're intimidating.

1687
01:34:22,119 --> 01:34:24,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, And these were these were like the little ones,

1688
01:34:24,279 --> 01:34:27,520
like the neotropical monkeys are generally much smaller, you know,

1689
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:30,000
but I saw like howler monkeys I saw and they're

1690
01:34:30,039 --> 01:34:32,199
all in danger too, And so they're all because their

1691
01:34:32,199 --> 01:34:36,880
habitat's gotten fucked. But yeah, I saw like little capuchins,

1692
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:39,359
those little white guy, little white faced guys with the

1693
01:34:39,439 --> 01:34:43,279
fans and shit. Yeah it was funny. Man and and

1694
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:46,880
howler monkeys, which are terrifying. It sounds like like this

1695
01:34:47,079 --> 01:34:49,520
gutt role. I thought it was like a large cat,

1696
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:51,279
and then I heard another one and I was like, oh,

1697
01:34:51,319 --> 01:34:53,720
there's a bunch of them. This isn't a cat. And

1698
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:55,479
it's like because I couldn't tell it was coming from

1699
01:34:55,560 --> 01:34:57,479
up in the tree or up on this like cliff

1700
01:34:58,319 --> 01:35:00,640
and uh yeah, And then I saw there and I

1701
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:02,399
was like, oh, it's just you, Okay, never.

1702
01:35:02,239 --> 01:35:04,439
Speaker 1: Mind, that's scary though.

1703
01:35:04,920 --> 01:35:08,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was really cool. Habitat though, really really cool,

1704
01:35:08,520 --> 01:35:11,279
Like walking through the forest, everything's crunching because it's but

1705
01:35:11,359 --> 01:35:15,000
it's like ninety degrees. You know. You're just like do

1706
01:35:15,079 --> 01:35:17,000
you what are you saying?

1707
01:35:17,359 --> 01:35:20,039
Speaker 1: Sorry? No, do you feel this way with tropical botanies?

1708
01:35:20,119 --> 01:35:22,319
Like so, because I live in Florida right now, but

1709
01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:25,960
like you, I do a lot of desert field working

1710
01:35:26,039 --> 01:35:29,119
from southern California, and so like all the plants go

1711
01:35:29,239 --> 01:35:31,520
on top of one another in the tropics, I'm like,

1712
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:34,199
what is what? Where does this plant end and this

1713
01:35:34,239 --> 01:35:37,720
plant plant start, but in a like desert, like nice

1714
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:40,720
and separate, you know, which is an individual.

1715
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:44,359
Speaker 2: I've never taken so many pictures of just leaves before,

1716
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:48,479
which is really frustrating for trying to identify stuff. Yeah,

1717
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:51,439
you know, when you've got no reproductive structures and like

1718
01:35:51,479 --> 01:35:53,680
the leaves, there's nothing notable about them, like they have

1719
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:57,319
wings or they've got these like super elongated hairs or something.

1720
01:35:57,640 --> 01:36:01,479
I saw this one species of Meconia. God, the mconia

1721
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:04,039
diversity like in Ecuador was wild. We were like thirty

1722
01:36:04,039 --> 01:36:06,600
eight hundred feet and a lot of the maconias there

1723
01:36:06,640 --> 01:36:10,640
have these swollen pettiole bases where ants live inside, and

1724
01:36:11,039 --> 01:36:12,840
like the people eat the ants like you can eat.

1725
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:14,680
Everyone I was with was like, oh yeah, I tried

1726
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:16,760
eating the ants. They're really good. I was like, fuck, no, man,

1727
01:36:16,840 --> 01:36:20,239
I'm like I'm not gonna Oh no, I did. I

1728
01:36:20,279 --> 01:36:22,479
did not know. He's like, oh, they tastes like sweet lemon.

1729
01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:25,439
I'm like, Jesus Christ has some weird chemistry there. But

1730
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:28,960
it was really cool because a number of Myconia species

1731
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:31,840
did that. But there was this one that was growing

1732
01:36:31,920 --> 01:36:35,520
in the shade. It was growing in a shady, humid environment.

1733
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:39,239
But it had these really long, like stiff tricombs on it,

1734
01:36:39,359 --> 01:36:42,199
like it like, uh yeah, I mean I assume it's

1735
01:36:42,239 --> 01:36:45,520
just for defense, like irdicating hairs or something. But it

1736
01:36:45,560 --> 01:36:49,039
had these like beautiful mahogany petioles and then like the

1737
01:36:49,079 --> 01:36:52,880
deep deep green broad leaves it was, and just all

1738
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:56,039
the all the melostomes have crazy flowers. They're all fucking

1739
01:36:56,039 --> 01:37:00,520
insane looking with really cool anthe appendages and stuff. But

1740
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:02,640
I remember seeing that being like, wow, this thing's so hairy.

1741
01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:05,119
But it's not. It's not like high up in the

1742
01:37:05,159 --> 01:37:08,359
paramo and it's not in an arid place because it's

1743
01:37:08,399 --> 01:37:11,239
it's yes, I mean most of the places. Like I

1744
01:37:11,239 --> 01:37:13,159
if I was, if we're going to go in academia

1745
01:37:13,159 --> 01:37:14,439
and you couldn't pay me to do it, but if

1746
01:37:14,479 --> 01:37:16,399
I did, I would probably study something like that, like

1747
01:37:16,479 --> 01:37:19,640
hairs on plants and like different adaptations for hairs on plants.

1748
01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:21,800
I think it's I know, it's just something I'm always

1749
01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:23,520
paying attention to. It's so interesting.

1750
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:26,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, the tri combs, the you know what the plant

1751
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:31,399
hairs are, the tri combs the so for brass Casey,

1752
01:37:32,039 --> 01:37:34,399
the like we could say he's like the grandfather of

1753
01:37:34,399 --> 01:37:36,640
the Rasa Casey. His name is isan Al Shabaz, who

1754
01:37:36,680 --> 01:37:38,479
was at Missouri bot Oh yeah, I.

1755
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:41,000
Speaker 2: Emailed that dude. Yeah yeah, yeah.

1756
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:43,840
Speaker 1: The best. He's so awesome, one of the coolest people.

1757
01:37:44,199 --> 01:37:47,239
But he believes the tricombes are the key to determining

1758
01:37:47,279 --> 01:37:50,479
like the different groups in brass case. Those plant hairs

1759
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:53,560
are incredibly important. So like the some will be look

1760
01:37:53,640 --> 01:37:56,399
like little stars, some will be branched, some will have

1761
01:37:56,520 --> 01:38:00,239
like boldest great bases, like they're so cool looking.

1762
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:02,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I can't Yeah, it's I can't believe

1763
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:05,479
we didn't mention that dude's name yet because he's like, yeah,

1764
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:10,720
he's like the Brassica king. I what was I gonna say? Yeah,

1765
01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:12,279
I had to. I reached out to him because there's

1766
01:38:12,279 --> 01:38:18,760
a really rare plant called Mastelis sastrum vasi that is

1767
01:38:19,239 --> 01:38:21,680
in the population. It's like known from this one park

1768
01:38:21,680 --> 01:38:25,359
in Harlingen, Texas. It's it's used to be more common.

1769
01:38:25,399 --> 01:38:28,600
It's super super rare, and I think I only kind

1770
01:38:28,640 --> 01:38:34,000
of like seventeen individuals and it's an annual too, but

1771
01:38:34,079 --> 01:38:36,840
it's uh, and it's the habitat's fucked. It's like it's

1772
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:38,560
like on the side of a mountain bike trail, and

1773
01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:42,319
then everything else is like dominated by invasive guinea grass

1774
01:38:42,319 --> 01:38:46,399
and buffalo grass. But it's one of those things where like,

1775
01:38:46,439 --> 01:38:48,439
if you've got seed, you could probably you know, after

1776
01:38:48,479 --> 01:38:51,119
a few generations, you could probably have thousands of plants

1777
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:53,680
if someone were to grow it. But you know, it's

1778
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:57,119
South Texas, so there's not many people that care. But

1779
01:38:57,119 --> 01:38:59,039
but but I reached out to them being like, do

1780
01:38:59,119 --> 01:39:00,960
you think that's what this is is? And yeah, he

1781
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:04,079
basically said, yeah, that's definitely what it is. It used

1782
01:39:04,079 --> 01:39:07,800
to be, Yeah, what was it? I forget the name

1783
01:39:07,840 --> 01:39:10,000
it used to be. It wasn't Masilla sastrum. I think

1784
01:39:10,239 --> 01:39:13,479
el schabaz split whatever genes it used to be into

1785
01:39:13,520 --> 01:39:19,239
Masta scilla, masta silastrum. But yeah, really cool plant, really

1786
01:39:19,279 --> 01:39:22,600
waxy and glaucus. But I don't normally see brasicas with

1787
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:25,000
hairs on them. Well that's not true. I just saw

1788
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:31,319
a dimorphal karpa, which is a yeah you know that one, right, Yes, yeah,

1789
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:35,479
super worry fucking awesome plant growing on these sand dunes.

1790
01:39:36,279 --> 01:39:40,279
Speaker 1: But there's even like a genus and so the Braska

1791
01:39:40,359 --> 01:39:43,319
genus itself one the species is Braska Velosa because it

1792
01:39:43,359 --> 01:39:46,640
has all these like Velo's tricombe plant hairs all over it.

1793
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:48,119
So there's a lot of.

1794
01:39:48,479 --> 01:39:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you're right, one of my time talking out

1795
01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:52,479
of my ass, That's true. There's a ton when I

1796
01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:54,439
think of it. I just normally think of them like

1797
01:39:54,479 --> 01:40:00,279
that that kale style, like waxy rubbery, yeah, Farina, you know. Yeah,

1798
01:40:00,279 --> 01:40:03,279
Like so I'm a very greasy Italian. You know, I

1799
01:40:03,279 --> 01:40:06,279
could wipe off like the wax with my thumb on

1800
01:40:06,319 --> 01:40:09,039
the stem, you know, like that's a common thing I

1801
01:40:09,079 --> 01:40:14,039
associate with Brassica's. But uh, yeah, what a cool fucking family.

1802
01:40:14,079 --> 01:40:17,039
Though we didn't even talk about order. We didn't even

1803
01:40:17,039 --> 01:40:21,920
talk about Striptantus. Yeah, the whole order itself, and like.

1804
01:40:22,239 --> 01:40:24,600
Speaker 1: How it likes growing on serpentine soil.

1805
01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:28,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's a couple of Striptanta's in Texas. I

1806
01:40:28,840 --> 01:40:31,239
forget what common name they've got, but it's something that

1807
01:40:31,279 --> 01:40:34,960
alludes to their beautiful flowers. But uh, but I don't,

1808
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:36,600
you know, I don't think a lot of texts and

1809
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:39,600
Bonus even know like how diverse the genus is on

1810
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:44,119
serpentine in California. It's fucking nuts, this thing. There's it's

1811
01:40:44,159 --> 01:40:47,159
like a I think someone had said that someone who

1812
01:40:47,279 --> 01:40:50,880
studied it had told me Striptantus evolved serpentine tolerance like

1813
01:40:50,960 --> 01:40:54,159
five or six times independently like the genus did I

1814
01:40:54,199 --> 01:40:56,600
think it was maybe Givnish mentioned that to me. I

1815
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:57,000
don't know.

1816
01:40:57,840 --> 01:40:58,680
Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense.

1817
01:40:58,720 --> 01:41:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, but anyway, well, I guess I guess we could

1818
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:04,720
wrap it up there and listen. I mean, anything else

1819
01:41:04,760 --> 01:41:08,520
you want to point out or talk about in reference

1820
01:41:08,560 --> 01:41:12,039
to this very cool and enigmatic order of plants.

1821
01:41:14,079 --> 01:41:17,520
Speaker 1: It's so hard to wrap it up. They're just so cool.

1822
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:19,880
Like every time I feel like I turn around, I

1823
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:23,479
learn about a new species and this order and it's

1824
01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:26,640
just a really cool place. I think it's interesting because

1825
01:41:26,640 --> 01:41:30,520
it's Brassa Casey and Brassicas and the like prefix of it.

1826
01:41:31,199 --> 01:41:33,760
People think it's really well studied, like the order, but

1827
01:41:34,079 --> 01:41:37,600
we're just learning so many things, just like just starting

1828
01:41:37,640 --> 01:41:38,079
to learn it.

1829
01:41:38,159 --> 01:41:40,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we just looked at like six families on

1830
01:41:40,840 --> 01:41:43,680
INET that have like one or no observations.

1831
01:41:44,840 --> 01:41:47,399
Speaker 1: It has like this misconception that it's well studied because

1832
01:41:47,439 --> 01:41:49,880
of that, but we're trying to make it so. But

1833
01:41:50,239 --> 01:41:51,319
we still have a lot to learn.

1834
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:54,760
Speaker 2: There's so many cool desert mustards. Yeah, man, yeah, nearris

1835
01:41:54,760 --> 01:41:59,399
Syrenia camporum, since flips is Greggii, and then fucking Fisarius

1836
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:01,079
everywhere there's.

1837
01:42:00,840 --> 01:42:03,239
Speaker 1: Just like you gotta look up, look up Skis of

1838
01:42:03,359 --> 01:42:05,760
pedal on. Are you familiar with Skis of pedalon It's

1839
01:42:05,760 --> 01:42:07,239
a genus in the Brassic casey.

1840
01:42:07,199 --> 01:42:09,039
Speaker 2: I no, no, no, where is it from?

1841
01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:12,600
Speaker 1: Uh? Like the Autocama Desert, So this is where a

1842
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:15,119
lot of the borages I love are as well. So

1843
01:42:15,159 --> 01:42:17,720
that's why I really like this one too. There's a

1844
01:42:17,760 --> 01:42:21,439
few different species in this genus. Oh if it has

1845
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:24,800
these flowers that are like highly divided, but still like

1846
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:29,760
the cross that is like characteristic the four petals. I

1847
01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:35,079
make a cross for the family. But it's like it

1848
01:42:35,239 --> 01:42:37,600
just looks so insane. It's one of my favorites.

1849
01:42:37,960 --> 01:42:41,199
Speaker 2: Well yeah, it's it's damn it's okay. So there's it's

1850
01:42:41,239 --> 01:42:43,520
coastal and then it's way up in the andes too,

1851
01:42:44,199 --> 01:42:44,800
mm hmm.

1852
01:42:45,560 --> 01:42:47,479
Speaker 1: Just like a lot of the borages of panther.

1853
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, damn. Oh yeah, this thing's nuts. Man. They're all

1854
01:42:51,640 --> 01:42:54,159
they're all like white four petals and then it's yeah,

1855
01:42:54,159 --> 01:42:57,640
what's up with those liciniate petals. It's got like divided petals.

1856
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:02,720
I don't know what is this plinated by moths or

1857
01:43:02,760 --> 01:43:04,159
flies or something? You think you know?

1858
01:43:05,439 --> 01:43:08,760
Speaker 1: I know, I only I grew one for DNA, But

1859
01:43:08,880 --> 01:43:11,520
I don't know, like hardly anything about it than I

1860
01:43:11,560 --> 01:43:15,840
think it's super pretty. It's just like a really beautiful plant.

1861
01:43:16,520 --> 01:43:19,119
Speaker 2: God, that's cool. There was a genus in South Africa

1862
01:43:19,199 --> 01:43:21,640
that was everywhere. Al it's got long floral tubes. Maybe

1863
01:43:21,640 --> 01:43:24,520
it is mouthpone it there was a genus in South

1864
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:28,119
Africa in Brassic. Casey, I should give this genus a

1865
01:43:28,199 --> 01:43:31,359
shut up before we pour waves here. Let me, I

1866
01:43:31,359 --> 01:43:33,560
can't remember it. Everything that you saw that was a

1867
01:43:33,640 --> 01:43:36,239
mustard was like in this genus you know that we

1868
01:43:36,239 --> 01:43:42,399
would encounter in South Africa. It was pretty. Why is

1869
01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:44,880
it saying? I don't know? Okay, my eight is fucking

1870
01:43:44,960 --> 01:43:47,479
up now home, let me look this up. Oh it's

1871
01:43:47,520 --> 01:43:57,479
on a tip of my tongue. I can't remember. Let's see. Yeah,

1872
01:43:57,479 --> 01:43:59,800
I don't know. This is what's up.

1873
01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:02,600
Speaker 1: I'm kind of think of what would be in South Africa.

1874
01:44:04,279 --> 01:44:04,600
Was it?

1875
01:44:06,479 --> 01:44:10,239
Speaker 2: Let's see, it's it's a dominant genus down there. It

1876
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:14,720
was Heliophila. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah, I saw like

1877
01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:20,760
six Heliophilus species, some blue, some white, some pink, some yeah,

1878
01:44:20,920 --> 01:44:24,159
some like blue with like a white center. Really fucking cool.

1879
01:44:24,359 --> 01:44:27,439
Oh cool, But anyway, all right, well I'll let you go.

1880
01:44:27,520 --> 01:44:31,079
Thanks so much, Mackenzie. And uh, yeah, I don't know.

1881
01:44:31,079 --> 01:44:32,880
If people want to read about your work, they where

1882
01:44:32,880 --> 01:44:34,960
can they look it up? I guess just the Google

1883
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:37,359
scholar research. Gay, do you have a website?

1884
01:44:38,159 --> 01:44:41,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a website just Mackenzie Maybrey. Can find

1885
01:44:41,399 --> 01:44:45,439
pretty much everything there, but it's also linked on my

1886
01:44:45,960 --> 01:44:49,039
Google scholar. But thank you so much for being interested

1887
01:44:49,039 --> 01:44:51,159
to talk about the Brassic halies, Like I really love

1888
01:44:51,239 --> 01:44:52,760
this group and I don't get to talk about it

1889
01:44:52,880 --> 01:44:56,119
very much. So yeah, thank you. I appreciate that opportunity.

1890
01:44:56,319 --> 01:44:58,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. That was great. And if if anyone

1891
01:44:58,079 --> 01:45:00,800
wants to see your photos that I Gano fighting, that

1892
01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:03,640
weird that weirdo from the Mibia, the beautiful wirdo from

1893
01:45:03,640 --> 01:45:05,239
the Mibia, just go to ain At and type in

1894
01:45:05,319 --> 01:45:10,600
Tygano fighting in the explore bar and Mackenzie's photos are

1895
01:45:10,680 --> 01:45:13,680
like most of what come up T I G A

1896
01:45:14,000 --> 01:45:17,640
N O, P H Y the o N so Okay,

1897
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:19,399
hey thanks, thank you so much again.

1898
01:45:20,279 --> 01:45:24,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks so good to talk to you. Bye bye,