WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:06.759 It's nice side with Ray WBS radiomor right. 2 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:11.759 Welcome back everybody. It is nine oh six. I think 3 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:15.839 it was pretty quick. Uh run down stairs, get a 4 00:00:15.839 --> 00:00:18.320 lit glass of water, and you run back up. Okay, 5 00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:21.760 as simple as that. We are going to give you 6 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:27.600 an opportunity to talk with a researcher, a dream researcher. 7 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:28.120 Uh. 8 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:35.320 His name is Kelly Bulkeley. Hopefully doctor Bulkeley. I'm getting 9 00:00:35.399 --> 00:00:37.280 that correct tonight. How are you. 10 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:40.640 I'm doing good. Yes, that was perfect, Thank you, Yeah, 11 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:41.320 be with you. 12 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:41.960 Uh. 13 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:45.640 Doctor Bulkeley was with us a little over a week ago. 14 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:51.119 He is a psychologist and a dream researcher, and this 15 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:55.320 is an opportunity for us to focus not only upon 16 00:00:56.119 --> 00:01:00.200 his general field work in this field, but all So 17 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:02.600 give you an opportunity if you'd like to call in 18 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:07.719 my producer today during we do a little promotional piece 19 00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:10.519 every day at four thirty for our program, and my producer, 20 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:16.239 Marita aka Lightning was was mentioning that you were going 21 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:19.680 to be our guest tonight, and she said that she 22 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:23.760 had a recurring dream of zombies, that she was a 23 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:27.120 zombie and very disquieted because she's not a fan of 24 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:32.560 zombie movies. So I guess everybody has those dreams. So 25 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:37.200 let's let's first of all explain to us generally, and 26 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:39.719 we'll get to phone calls. I promise there's a few 27 00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:42.560 folks of the line already. You guys will be all set. 28 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:47.519 But how did you get into dream research? You're a psychologist, 29 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:50.920 I understand that. How was it and what drew you 30 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:54.920 to the to the to the whole area of dream research. 31 00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:57.079 As I found out the other night when we talked, 32 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:01.040 everybody dreams in some full we would talking the other night. 33 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:03.040 If you recall between that there was some people dreaming 34 00:02:03.079 --> 00:02:05.480 in black and white, others dream in color, and you 35 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:08.080 can't remember your dreams unless you're writing down. We'll go 36 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:10.240 over some of that again. But how did you first 37 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:12.439 get involved in this? What drew you to this field? 38 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:13.719 Yeah? 39 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:16.800 Well, well, like many people, my own dreams sort of 40 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:21.240 steered me away from the path of normality and got 41 00:02:21.319 --> 00:02:24.560 me very interested in this topic that did lots of 42 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:28.000 people look at, but not everybody sort of tries to 43 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:31.560 bring together all the different strands of research. So I'm 44 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:36.000 actually a psychologist of religion. My graduate school training was 45 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:40.479 in religious studies, the psychology of religion in part because 46 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:43.520 I was interested in dreams and I went to college 47 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:47.199 psychology classes, and you know, it was all about rats 48 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:51.159 and reaction times and behaviorists models of the mind that 49 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:53.879 didn't make a whole lot of sense in relation to 50 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.000 the dream experiences that I had that were strange, chasing 51 00:02:57.120 --> 00:03:00.919 nightmares and sort of other worldly types of things that 52 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:06.759 were I found more insights in looking at dreams through 53 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:11.520 the history of religions, through the history of philosophy, anthropological studies, 54 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.759 as well as modern psychology. So yeah, I try to 55 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:18.240 bring it all together because dreams are complicated and have many, 56 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:19.439 many dimensions of meaning. 57 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:23.439 Yeah, a lot of dreams that I've talked with other people, 58 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:28.120 they will talk about being visited by a relative who 59 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:30.560 had passed, or some people have talked to me about 60 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:33.520 they've had a dream of a pet that had passed. 61 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:35.639 Let me ask you, and you don't have to answer it. 62 00:03:36.159 --> 00:03:36.319 You know. 63 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:40.439 I'm sort of like the lawyer and the judge. I 64 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:42.360 asked the questions. But if you want to invoke the 65 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:43.199 Fifth Amendment and. 66 00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:44.080 Anything, feel fair? 67 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:45.439 Okay, Yeah, no problem. 68 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:48.599 No what I'm saying. So, you got interested in dream 69 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:52.439 research through religion because you were involved in that. Do 70 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:55.199 you happen to be someone who is religious. There are 71 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:58.439 people who also are not religious who study religions. Do 72 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:00.960 you fall any where? Do you fall on that spectrum moment? 73 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:05.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not you know, of course, No, no, no, 74 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:07.719 this is my world. Uh no, I'm going to the 75 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.879 American Academy Religion Conference on a couple of weeks in 76 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:14.080 San Diego. That's my where I've gone for enviral thirty 77 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:14.680 plus years. 78 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:15.080 So no. 79 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:18.759 To going by the way, Yeah. 80 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:22.839 Yeah, yeah, but no, I'm very interested in religion. I'm 81 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:25.920 not personally religious in a kind of conventional way. I 82 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:30.480 have spiritual beliefs and sort of our relations to the 83 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:34.040 universe and nature in particular and all sorts of things. 84 00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:38.399 But but no, I'm fascinated by by religions in human 85 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:42.120 life and how dreams in almost all religions are a 86 00:04:42.680 --> 00:04:47.000 primary source of people's experiences and understandings of what the 87 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:51.000 divine is, what happens after we mentioned dreams of you know, 88 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:53.639 friends and family and pets who have passed away and 89 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:56.959 come back in dreams. That's a that's a universal phenomenon, 90 00:04:57.639 --> 00:04:59.199 and in most of the world's religions. 91 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:04.600 I assume that that phenomenon has they can probably see 92 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:08.839 it or have writings about it, going back millennia. We're 93 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.800 not talking about something that, oh yeah, all of a 94 00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:14.600 sudden has percolated up in the last fifty years. 95 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:15.600 Yeah. 96 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:18.279 Yeah, No, there's a at the end of Homer's Iliat 97 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:21.720 there's a great example where the where Achilles has a 98 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:24.319 dream of his friend petruk Lass, who's been killed, but 99 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:27.079 then comes back to a to Achilles in a dream 100 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:29.360 and says, hey, you've got to go then to my death. 101 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:31.839 Go out there and you know, kick some kick some 102 00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:35.000 trojan booty, and an Achilles gets up and does it, 103 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.480 you know. So so yeah, twenty five hundred, I don't 104 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:39.879 know longer than that. That's that's thousands of years ago 105 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:43.160 people were talking about these kinds of dreams and how 106 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:45.439 poignant they are and memorable and intense. 107 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:49.879 Okay, what what percentage of people? And again I'm asking questions, 108 00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:53.319 and if I ask questions, there is no easy answer. 109 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:56.360 Does everyone dream? Or virtually everyone dream in some form 110 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:56.839 of fashion. 111 00:05:58.160 --> 00:05:58.519 Yeah, so. 112 00:06:00.199 --> 00:06:03.319 At a kind of brain science level of virtually all 113 00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:10.079 humans have the innate neural hardware of the sleep cycle 114 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:12.079 of ram and non rens sleep, we can talk more 115 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:15.160 about that if you like. But familiar with that, Yeah, 116 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:18.319 we do, we do. We typically associate with dreaming. And 117 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:20.879 most people, if you get them in a sleep laboratory, 118 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:23.480 even people say they don't remember their dreams, and if 119 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:24.839 you wake them up in the middle of a rem 120 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:28.040 phase and just say catch them right that moment, they'll 121 00:06:28.079 --> 00:06:32.160 probably remember a dream. There is a very small percentage, 122 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:35.319 perhaps one percent or so, of people who seem to 123 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:38.720 truly not have any dream recall and not have any 124 00:06:38.800 --> 00:06:42.639 other necessarily psychological problems. So, you know, I don't I 125 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:44.439 don't amasize like, if you don't remember your dreams, that 126 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.279 means there's something wrong with you. There's That's the way 127 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:49.879 the case pretty much is the dreamer. 128 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:52.439 Yes, they sort of disappear with me. I can wake 129 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:54.319 up and I know I was dreaming about something before 130 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:57.399 I woke up today, and I don't know if it 131 00:06:57.480 --> 00:07:01.240 was work related or whatever, but I remember whatever it was, 132 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:03.720 I was conscious and that was kind of interesting. And 133 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:06.720 then fifteen seconds later, now, what was that again? You 134 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:09.600 know it's yeah, they flowed away. 135 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:14.519 Well, they have their own way of relating to our 136 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:16.759 waking consciousness. And the thing that we can be sure 137 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:21.079 of is that if there's some important message or something 138 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.839 whether our dreams want to let us know about, they 139 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:26.519 can find us. They know right where we are. So 140 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:31.040 I tend to emphasize the not the quantity of dreams 141 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:33.920 that people remember, but the quality of how they reflect 142 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:36.879 on the few do remember, and that they crossed that 143 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:40.480 threshold into waking awareness. There's probably a reason for that. 144 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:45.319 Has any work or study been done? I'm a huge 145 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:52.560 uh dog guy loved Okay, sure that every dog that 146 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:56.399 I've only had, really three in my in my life, 147 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.600 that they've all they all dream because I'll see them 148 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.399 lie there and they're they're they're kind of twitching and 149 00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:05.879 and sometimes they're almost talking to themselves. Has there ever 150 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:07.279 been a study under dogs dream? 151 00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:12.319 Yeah, they're they're actually a growing number of studies, uh, 152 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:18.759 showing not just dogs, but but many other kinds of animals. Uh, birds, 153 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:22.240 OCTOPI uh, the mice. 154 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:22.680 Uh. 155 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:26.360 Yeah, there's there's were were actually and it's it's an 156 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:29.600 interesting philosophical question because if we grant that these other 157 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:33.720 species have dreams, which as a someone who has dogs, 158 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:35.879 I have cats, you know, I hope you don't cut 159 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:36.440 me off here. 160 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:36.480 But. 161 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:42.759 People, Yeah, yeah, but I love dogs yeah, I mean, 162 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:45.320 I just think of dogs. Cats. Cats to me are 163 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:46.120 a little more. 164 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.879 I mean, I don't know. Well, they're all dreamers. They're 165 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:53.600 all dreamers. We you know, we're not to put it 166 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:57.279 this way. Human rought the only dreaming species on this planet. 167 00:08:57.480 --> 00:08:57.639 You know. 168 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:00.639 Well, now this is good. Of course I know about 169 00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:03.759 dogs because you live with dogs. You see dogs, You 170 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:06.759 see him sleeping in the afternoon. Uh And I have 171 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:10.440 no knowledge of whether elephants or rhinoceros is dream because 172 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:13.000 I've never been in the presence of close enough to 173 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:14.720 one of them when they were sleep to see if 174 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.759 they if their eyes were flickering or anything like that. Okay, Okay, 175 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:21.240 I just wanted to open up the conversation that way. 176 00:09:21.320 --> 00:09:24.480 And we're going to get the phone calls, and you 177 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:27.759 can ask a question, uh and and be happy to 178 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:34.279 take the answer. And if doctor Kelly Bulkeley feels he 179 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:36.200 has to ask you a little bit more about your 180 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:38.480 dream cycle or your pattern, you've got to be honest. 181 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:40.679 Then we'll go from there. The only lines that I 182 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:44.039 have opened, our regular line six, one, seven, two, five, four, ten, thirty, 183 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:46.519 are now fold So don't dial those until some of 184 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:49.879 the callers come on and drop off. Our additional line 185 00:09:49.960 --> 00:09:53.799 six one, seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty are available 186 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:56.000 as two there and you can jump on board. And 187 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.559 I'd like to get probably to about ten callers this hour. 188 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.120 I suspect we shouldn't have any problem with it. I 189 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.200 see that we have Buck up in Gloucester, Glenn and 190 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:06.159 Brighton and Karen checking in from Wisconsin already. We'll be 191 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:09.360 back on Night Side with my guest. He's a psychologist 192 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:13.559 and a dream researcher, doctor Kelly Bulkeley. Right back back 193 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:14.240 right after this. 194 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:18.480 Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World 195 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:21.720 Nightside Studios on WBZ News Radio. 196 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:27.240 We're talking with a dream researcher who's a psychologist, doctor 197 00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:30.480 Kelly Bulkeley, and we'll get to some phone calls. I 198 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:35.639 could certainly talk about my dreams. My recurring dream is 199 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:38.399 that there's always this one class in law school that 200 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:43.159 I forgot to take, and it's like May fifteenth, and 201 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:48.039 the you got to read an entire law school tone 202 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:50.679 and you got to write a research paper, and you 203 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:53.639 got the weekend, and I have plans for the weekend. 204 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:57.320 I have no idea where that comes from. I was 205 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:01.759 a law student that always tried to things done annotated 206 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.080 and ready to go, and I have no idea why 207 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:08.600 that's so buried in my psyche. Any suggestion on that one. 208 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:13.519 Yeah, well, these kinds of dreams can provide sort of 209 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:17.519 templates for life long anxiety, for better for worse. I mean, 210 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:20.919 for me, it's often sports streams where like I'm in 211 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:23.399 a game, you know, I'm basketball or baseball or something, 212 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:26.200 and the ball slits out of my hands or I 213 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.320 can't run fast enough or something that you know, I 214 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:33.120 think becomes then a metaphor later in life, when long 215 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:35.440 after I've been playing sports, long after you've been in 216 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:39.480 law school, where that is kind of a paradigmatic emotional 217 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:42.120 experience of like, whoa, this is how scary it would 218 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:45.080 be if I really messed this up? And ever after, 219 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:49.639 anytime something similar in life comes along, it's anxiety provoking 220 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:52.600 the unconscious mind kind of goes back there and kind 221 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:54.360 of remembers that, like, well, let's see, how is it 222 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:55.120 as scary as this? 223 00:11:55.519 --> 00:12:00.039 As this was sort of a touch point, and we 224 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:02.200 also talked the other vent the star in a way, 225 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:04.879 to be honest, it's what it's a scar. 226 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:07.279 It's almost like a scar, you could say, like kind 227 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:09.399 of a you know, longtime emotional scar man. 228 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:11.600 Yeah, and I think we also talked the other night 229 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.679 briefly about airplane dreams. Uh, and you're on a plane 230 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:20.000 and it's it's, it's, it's, it's it's not going well. 231 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:22.399 Oh yeah yeah yeah. 232 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:25.879 Is that is that a common dream? Or is that 233 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:29.159 from somebody who has never traveled in a plane before 234 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.440 or someone who would travel and had a bad experiences. 235 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:36.840 Yeah, yeah, no, it's uh, it's it's great. And I'm 236 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:39.080 part of a group that's now gathering like a big 237 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.360 database of thousands of dreams that are directly about flying 238 00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:45.559 from different sources. So it's really a great topic. And 239 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:48.559 and going back in history and cross culturally, there are, 240 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:52.759 for example, Native American groups where people would describe flying 241 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:55.120 dreams long before they knew anything about airplanes. 242 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:55.320 Right. 243 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:59.399 It has to do in an ancient Roman dream interpreter 244 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:01.799 talking about dreams of flying over the city of Rome 245 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:04.879 in like second century a d. So this is something 246 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:08.720 that humans have kind of been fantasizing about presumably forever. 247 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:13.799 The uh many mystical dreams in Islam or flying dreams. 248 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:16.559 So if those folks were well ahead of their times, 249 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:21.000 doctor yeah, yeah, yeah, wins You're on a plane and 250 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:24.600 the planes is having trouble finding the airport, and it's 251 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:29.240 flying under bridges and just getting under the bridge, you 252 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:31.919 two feet on each wing, and it's like, can we 253 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.279 find it? Can we find somewhere to land? 254 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:40.879 Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Well, like a plane flying is sort 255 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:45.480 of this defiance of gravity and defiance of the bounds 256 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:47.639 that we have in terms of being on the ground, 257 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:51.279 grounded beings for the most part. So what does it 258 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:53.000 take to rise above that? And what hold? 259 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:53.120 What? 260 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:55.399 What? What brings us back down? It's a sort of 261 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:57.279 a metaphor many people find around. 262 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:02.720 Fine, let's let's go some of other metaphors that with you. 263 00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:05.799 Let me go first off this hour going to go 264 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.120 to a long time listener and a great caller, Bucket Gloucester. 265 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:12.960 Buck Welcome here with doctor Kelly Bulkeley. Go right ahead. 266 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:14.240 We're talking about dreams. 267 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:19.519 He doctor Bulkeley, you have a fascinating profession, and it's 268 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:23.639 ironic these things you were talking about, because that's exactly 269 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.879 what I wanted to share. I love my dreams, okay, 270 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:32.159 and I've always been athletic, but the one recurring dream 271 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:36.679 was that no gravity and I could just jump up 272 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:40.000 and swim through the air. I would always be disappointed 273 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.200 when I woke up and realized it was just a dream. 274 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.679 But it wasn't mindless swimming through the air, but I 275 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.799 propelled myself through the air, and I could, you know, 276 00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:55.919 just do anything I wanted purposely. And I don't have 277 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:59.360 those anymore. I'm seventy four years old. I don't know 278 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:03.559 what don't anymore. I'm still athletic. Any insight on that 279 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:08.399 in particular, you already tell ye that it's universal, it 280 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:13.919 goes back before there were airplanes. That's interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, 281 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:16.799 that's that's that's great to hear. And then and and 282 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:22.279 you know, there is something about gravity or its lacking dreams, 283 00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:26.559 like what like the the reversive flying dreams are falling dreams, 284 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.759 and that's that's many poets. Falling dreams are actually more common, 285 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:33.279 so the dreams when we're liberated from gravity, when we 286 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.679 can do these magical things, that's where it becomes this 287 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:40.399 just wonderful metaphor of possibilities. You know, if you can 288 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:42.759 fly where you know you didn't think you could do 289 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:44.519 that in waking life, well what else can you do 290 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:46.919 in waking life that you didn't think you could do? 291 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:51.000 That's often the like the waking up and feeling disappointed. 292 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:52.679 There is a sense like, oh I wish I could 293 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:57.879 really do that. Yeah, yeah, But oftentimes there's a sense like, well, 294 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.799 it's it's sort of a reminder of our own inner 295 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:04.080 potential and and you know, may not have them as often, 296 00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:06.600 but they're they're they're they're still rattling around in there. 297 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:10.320 I'm sure. Well I like that because I've never had 298 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:13.519 any dreams of falling that I can recall. So thank 299 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:17.519 you very much, just for a great guests, Thank. 300 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:20.840 You, thanks, thanks for participating, appreciate the call. Let's keep 301 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:23.039 rolling here. So now we get one line at six 302 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.919 one seven, two fast four to ten thirty, and we 303 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:29.519 still get get you in at six one seven, nine 304 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:33.519 three one, ten thirty. We've got to Karen, who's in Wisconsin. Karen, 305 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:35.519 what dreams would you like to ask about? 306 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:43.519 Well, rather asking, I'd just like to say that I 307 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:49.879 have always dreamt dreaming before I fell asleep, and they've 308 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:55.399 always been very violent dreams, and you know, dreaming that 309 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:58.279 I'm going to be chased and killed with care. 310 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:01.200 Let me I understand that question. You're talking about you 311 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:03.320 having dreams before you fall asleep. 312 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:08.799 Yes, they're hypnal gogic and kept no pompic dreams you 313 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:13.559 start dreaming before. I'm sure he has done research. 314 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:16.880 Like, let's get let's get him to explain it and 315 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:18.680 then we'll talk about your specific dreams. 316 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:21.799 Yeah, yeah, you know, this is a this is a phenomenon. 317 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:25.440 It's it's hip. As you just said, Karen, hypnogogic and 318 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:28.759 hip hypnogogic is sort of from from waking into sleeping hypnopompic, 319 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:33.240 from sleeping back out and waking. These sort of thresholds 320 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.839 just on the edge of waking and then sleeping. The 321 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.640 mind is special things and they can be very brief, 322 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:43.160 but they can be intense. So, uh so, Karen, you're 323 00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:46.200 saying that in your these experiences for you, there's sort 324 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:48.119 of a violent encounter right away. 325 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:52.519 The pardon, can you just say that? 326 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:56.400 Yeah, so you're saying there's some some sort of violent 327 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.079 interactions that happens in your list. 328 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:04.839 I'm sorry. It was always uh dreaming that I was 329 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:07.599 going to get killed, to the point that I would 330 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:12.119 wake up right before I was being stabbed, and then 331 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:17.200 I always had dreams, beautiful dreams where I'm sore over 332 00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:21.400 the ocean like a pelican. And now now I have 333 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:26.279 to take medicine so that because I would dream and 334 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:32.400 you cannot live and dream. I mean you're paralyzed. When 335 00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.720 you're dreams, you are awake, you could kill someone. So 336 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:39.640 I take medicine so that doesn't happen, but I don't 337 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:40.599 dream anymore. 338 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:42.079 Yeah. 339 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:45.960 Yeah, Well, let me just make sure, Karen, I want 340 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.960 to interpret this. You take medicine that's prescribed by a doctor, 341 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:53.920 so your mind will not be as active when you're 342 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:55.839 in the process of falling asleep or when. 343 00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:57.720 You're right good, okay, right? 344 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:02.319 Is that common, doctor, Yes, there's there's there's many kinds 345 00:19:02.359 --> 00:19:06.519 of sort of conditions where sleep can be disrupted by 346 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.519 things happening. Either he's said a hidden the god to 347 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:14.079 kidnap pumpic uh phenomenon. That that just starts to sound 348 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.359 a little bit like a like a sleep paralysis episode, 349 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:20.480 which is a whole other aspect of of you know, 350 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:21.559 sleep pathology. 351 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:24.599 Or I want to I want to talk about that separate, 352 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.440 separately from Karen. Karen, I'm kind of coming up at 353 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:31.240 my newscast here, right, that was a very interesting I 354 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.640 had never heard of that, so so you have eliminated that. 355 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:37.480 I assume now you can go to sleep without dealing 356 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:39.880 with these sorts of experiences. 357 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:43.359 I don't dream anymore, but i'd like to get off 358 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:47.480 the drugs really because because not good when you're old, 359 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:50.119 you know. But maybe I don't need them anymore. 360 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:53.000 I would. I would suggest you should talk to you doctor, 361 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:57.319 your doctor. Yeah, no, I'm seriously. Maybe maybe this will 362 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.599 prompt you, this conversation that I will prompt you to 363 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:04.400 do that. It's important for you to always tell you 364 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:06.480 your doctor what you're thinking. He may say to you. Know, 365 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.039 you've got to stay on Those dreams are that. 366 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:10.079 I wouldn't do it. 367 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:11.480 Yeah, I don't know that. 368 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:15.319 I just thought it was an interestinct phenomenon. 369 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:17.920 Well, thanks very much for bringing that up. I had 370 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.599 never heard of it. Karen in Wisconsin. 371 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:23.319 Thanks Karen, and I don't dream anymore, and I'm very 372 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:29.240 happy that I don't thank you very much to share that. 373 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.480 We got a newscast coming up which we have to 374 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:35.000 take and then a couple of commercials. If you'd like 375 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:38.000 to join us, one line at six one, seven, two, five, 376 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:40.279 four ten thirty. That is our regular line, the one 377 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:43.279 that's even easier to get through. One is six one, seven, nine, 378 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:46.160 three one, ten thirty. They get you to the same place. 379 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:52.079 If you'd like to talk with doctor Kelly Bulkley, Uh, 380 00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.440 he is a he's a psychologist and a dream researcher, 381 00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:57.839 and any questions you have. I want to talk to 382 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:01.200 you at some point about those paralytic dreams because I've 383 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:03.839 experienced those where you wake up and you think something's 384 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:06.839 going on and you just you're awake, or you think 385 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:11.319 you're awake, but you physically incapacitated, you just can't move exactly. 386 00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:13.920 We'll get to those. We got other callers. We'll continue 387 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:17.599 along with doctor Kelly Bulkeley right after this news break 388 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:19.799 and a couple of commercial messages. You're listening to night 389 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:22.359 Side on WBZ and Boston ten thirty and the AM 390 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:24.240 dial coming back right after this. 391 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:30.480 Boston's News Radio. 392 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:35.960 We're talking about your dreams, talking with psychologists and dream researcher, 393 00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:42.279 doctor Kelly Bokeley. I hope the term dream researcher is 394 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:44.400 an appropriate and accurate characterization. 395 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:49.279 Yeah, so absolutely, that's that's that's my focus. I've been 396 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:51.279 at it for almost forty years now. 397 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:51.720 Yeah. 398 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:53.559 Right, No, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't 399 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:55.720 a more technical term. I didn't. I didn't want to 400 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:57.519 downgrade it, but I want people to understand. 401 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:01.519