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Speaker 1: The following presentation Isndel Marvis Studio's production.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to the fact Hunter Radio Network. Here is

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your host, George Hobbs. Welcome back truth seekers from around

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the world. It's time for another edition of the fact

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Hunter podcast. As we record on this Tuesday, April twenty eighth,

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twenty twenty six. Another month on its way. Can you

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believe the next time we meet it's going to be May?

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Almost halfway done this year. How are you doing? I

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hope you had a great weekend. The weather here has

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been pretty decent. Cut the grass this morning, so I'm

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sure you can hear it my voice with the algae's.

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But we're going to get through this. As we mentioned

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last week. Today we're going to be talking about the

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events of April nineteenth, nineteen ninety five. But before we

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get into that, just a couple of quick reminders. If

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you'd like to send us an email, that is the

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fact Hunter at mail dot com. Again, it's the fact

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Untre at mail, not gmail dot com. And by the way,

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if you'd like to support us, check out our twenty

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four to seven streaming faith radio that is Foundations infaith

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dot net. Go ahead and check us out there. So

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you know, two years to the day from Waco, you

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have this bombing in Oklahoma City. We were blessed enough

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to go there two years ago and to see it

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would have been the twenty ninth anniversary. It was April nineteenth,

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twenty twenty four. I was there and you could see

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the pain on the family member's face was just as

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fresh as it was twenty nine years prior to that.

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And all the memorabilia and memories that pictures of children

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and you know that has taped to all the walls

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around there. It's very memorable experience. And you know, as

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we always say, there's the truth, there's what they tell us,

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what happened, and what we think happened, and somewhere in

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the middle there is the truth. The more I've researched

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it and over the last few weeks, you know, the

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Kenneth Michael trying to do name and his quote unquote

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suicide where even the chief medical examiner in Oklahoma City

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said he was murdered. You know, he was John Doe

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and he was a bigger part of the group that

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was going after the government because of what happened at

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Ruby Ridge and Waco. The Aryan Republican Army, They robbed

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twenty banks, they derailed a train, and really who knows

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what other you know, activities that weren't linked to them.

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You know, they saw as an active war against a

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government that look it extremely radical. You know, through those

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patriotic lenses we claim we're the land of the Free

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and the home of the brave. But when you take

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off the patriotic lenses, and again I'm not saying we

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live in an awful place, but you can't say we're

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one nation under God and then say, oh, the evil

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that goes on around us. What really happened, you know,

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really kicking it off with Ruby Ridge and that's something

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we'll revisit again here in the very near future. And

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then Waco and Oklahoma City, and you had twa eight

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hundred which was shot out of the sky and all

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these things, and we just continue to move on to

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the next thing. Right, there was another fake assassination attempt,

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and it's just you know, whereas thirty years ago, it

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would have been in the news for weeks, right that

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they were even replaying a clip from it would have

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been the very beginning was either March thirty first or

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April first of nineteen eighty one, and it was the

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Academy Awards, and was the day after Ronald Reagan had

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been shot, and there was even talk of canceling the awards. Right,

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that's when they still held reverence for, you know, the presidency.

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And now they've used it to just you know, have

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people tear each other apart. It's become a joke. But

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the Oklahoma City bombing, these things that happened in the nineties,

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we can't let them go forgotten. We can't let them

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go unnoticed.

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Speaker 1: We have.

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Speaker 2: To remind our fellow countrymen, our younger countrymen, about how

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evil and tyrannical this government truly is, and whether it's

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the left or the right, they're truly not looking out

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for our best interests. And Oklahoma City is certainly one example.

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Now I have precisely an hour to do this today,

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so it's going to be a multi part series. On

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the back end of this, I'm going to drop in

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some classic audio Ted Gunderson and his infamous tell all.

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I haven't played that in a while. He gets into

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the Illuminati, Satanism, what went on in the White House

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in the eighties, Pizzagate, before it was known as pizzagate

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if you smell what I'm cooking right. But Oklahoma City,

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April nineteenth, nineteen ninety five, the official version is this

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anti government extremist by the name of Timothy McVeigh, assisted

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by Terry Nichols, detonated a makeshift bomb in a stored

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rental truck parked in front of the Alfred P. Mura

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Federal Building in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. And the attack killed

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one hundred and sixty seven people, injured six hundred and

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eighty four, destroyed a third or thirty three percent of

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the building. The attack also destroyed or damaged three hundred

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and twenty four other buildings, and on and on and on,

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and of course McVeigh, this sinisterly you know, sinisterly smart individual,

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within ninety minutes of the explosion, was pulled over by

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Charlie Hager, an Oklahoma Highway patrolman, for driving without a

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license plate and having an illegal weapon laying on a sea.

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So again, this mastermind drove off without a license plate.

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Now we can kind of put out some ideas at

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the beginning, speak about them and put them out at

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the end. Was it the government running a test for

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what was to come six years later, and he was

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a federal agent, and you know, you heard the stories

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of his execution. Did he really even die? There's an

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FBI agent that looks exactly like him today and you

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can just you can even go into Google and put

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FBI agent that looks like McVeigh and you'll see the

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picture side by side. But you know, here's McVeigh. We're

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told who hated the government. You know, here's this army

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veteran awarded a Bronze Star during the Persian Gulf War.

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He was assigned guard detail to the most famous man

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of that time outside of Bush, General Norman Schwartzkoff. He

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was an American hero thirty five years ago. He guarded

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him during the negotiations and Sefwan Iraq in ninety one.

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You can't be assigned to a you know, the highest

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ranking person of wartime without having serious background checks done

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and serious trust. So I perceive, I believe that's when

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he was. You know, the CIA and the powers that be,

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they get their folks from colleges, right like the Carps

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and the Gates. They scour the guy who plays mister Facebook, right,

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but also the military. If you score a certain way,

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you're pointed out. There's a reason that asfabtasks, it's not

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just to see what your GTS score is. If you

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score it in a precise way, there's something about that

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that they know that you can be used and be trusted.

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And that's what happened. He assumed the role of this

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anti government terrorist. That's my belief, all right, And then

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you know, next week we'll get into Kenneth trying to

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do and more into that as well. But today I

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really just wanted to focus on this article that was

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written ten years ago by Roger Landry because it thinks

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outside the box. And then again, we'll go for an hour,

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we'll pause, we'll bring you Ted Gunderson's speech, and then

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we'll come back next week for part two, and if

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a part three is necessary, so be it. We'll continue

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running and then we're gonna follow that up with Ruby

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Ridge and we'll see where we go from there. But

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you have to understand, it's just been thirty years ago

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and that was really one of the biggest tragedies in history.

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But again, like everything else, we just go on to

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the next thing. It's nine to eleven, it's COVID, it's banks,

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it's this, it's that, we have a society that's been

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so conditioned right to think that only instant gratification and

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returns those dopamine hits, forsaking the lessons of history to

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our ultimate misfortune. You look at history from forty one

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on Pearl Harbor, the Gulf of Tonkin, Oklahoma City, nine

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to eleven Sandy Hook, Benghazi. Right, many of us are

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aware on some level that things just don't add up.

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We're being spoon fed, spoon fed, pardon me, by our

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own government, the people who are sworn to protect us,

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our quote unquote leaders and their complicit mainstream media is

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worthy of suspicion and doubt. But it doesn't fit into

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our comfort bubble. That's why we can't get people to

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put on those sunglasses like and they live. We got

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to get in a fight and rough them up. Say,

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for the love of peak, can you just put these

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on for a second, because once you see, there's no

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going back. But people are happy being in their comfort bubble.

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So you know, people avoid, they push back, and they

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just you know, submerge themselves in football and the television

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and just the mainstream And this is the result of generations.

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You have to understand this conditioning goes back to the

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late eighteen hundreds. I mean, obviously it goes back further

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than that, but the plan with starting to get technology

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in place with the radio and television and being able

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to broadcast that mockingbird message in unison to some extent, Yes,

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the Hearst newspapers could do that, but you still had

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quite a bit of independent newspapers, and there was actually

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people making an effort to do journalism. Back in the day.

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Journalism wasn't reading a teleprompter and you know, having your

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haircombed nicely. It was hitting the phones and hitting the

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streets and interviewing people and finding out the truth. My

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grandfather believed that the media was the fourth unofficial arm

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of the government to keep the other three in check.

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Now they're just as powerful as an arm for the

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government because they compare it that message in Unison. Right,

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go back to the made by the CIA director forty

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five years ago, William Casey, And this is the CIA director.

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He said, we will know our program of disinformation has

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succeeded when everything in America believe is false. So you know,

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this is a pretty comprehensive look at the historical and

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political happenings that surround one of the country's most catastrophic events,

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and like many change altered or ended the lives of

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so many people. Right, Pearl Harbor three thousand, Gulf of Tonkin,

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which was a lie fifty eight thousand, nine to eleven,

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three thousand, and that doesn't even count all the wars

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and everything after that, and not just the Americans, but

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the people in those regions. And your conditioned to believe

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it's okay, they're a towel head, right, it's okay to

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kill those people. They're bad. If you read the Bible

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and come away with that mindset, you might want to

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read it again. Today's lesson the Oklahoma City bombing and

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the politics of terror. And this is part one of fifteen.

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It had to be mined, said the gruff, gnarly voice

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on the other end of the line. It's real simple.

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You cannot bring down a building like that without cutting

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charges set on the support pillars, as we saw on

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nine to eleven. But this man speaking was an ex

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Green Beret who saw heavy combat in Vietnam. I was

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an engineer too before I changed my mos for eight

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years and we did Bangalore torpedoes seafour and all that stuff.

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We can, you know, take trees down with sea four

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and deckcord to make it fall a certain way and

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then we build it back up combat heavy, but had

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military demolitions training, the kind that taught men who need

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to know how to blow up hardened targets. He said

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it couldn't have been done externally like that with an

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AMPHO bomb without cutting charges. There was no way it

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could do it. Now. I don't think there was cutting

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charges for that. Do I believe that there was a

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bomb inside? And was that the reason they killed Tarren Shiaki?

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Did he see an unexploded ordinance in there? I think

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it's something similar to that. But Bud who that's not

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his real name, he didn't want to use his full

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name because he was worried about his VIA benefits. And

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yes they can if they deem you irresponsible, they can.

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Not irresponsible, that's not the correct term. But you anti American.

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Maybe I've heard stories of people losing their benefits. One

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man who wasn't worried about the government reprisals was General

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Benton K. Parton. He was a retired US Air Force

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Brigadier General. Parton had responsibility for the design and testing

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of almost every non nuclear weapon device that was used

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in the Air Force, including precision guided weapons designed to

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destroy harden targets like the Alfred P. Mura Building. Now

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he has exhaustively researched the bombing and the results, pattern

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of the damage. Now he sent a letter just a

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couple weeks after the events of April nineteenth, nineteen ninety five,

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and he had delivered this letter to each member of

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Congress and Senate. Now Here is part of his letter.

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This is a brigadier general. When I first saw the

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pictures of the truck bomb's asymmetrical damage to the Federal Building,

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my immediate reaction was that the pattern of damage would

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have been techedchnically impossible without supplementing demolition charges at some

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of the reinforcing concrete column bases. For a simplistic blast

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truck bomb, which was an ANFO bomb of the size

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and composition reported to be able to reach out on

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the order of sixty feet and collapse a reinforced column base.

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The size of column A seven is beyond credulity. And

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you can find his full text anywhere on the Internet.

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It's not hard to find, and it's a little too complex,

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and it would get boring to rate here. But what

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he's saying is a truck filled with ammonium nitrate could

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not have caused the degree of damage done to the

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Murrah Building, not when it was parked at least twenty

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feet away without direct contact. The fall off from the

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block asked would have been too great to do any

246
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structural damage. Another man who knows a thing or two

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about bombs is Samuel Cohen, inventor of the neutron bomb.

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Cohen began his career on the Manhattan Project at Los Alamos,

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where he was charged with studying the effects of the

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atomic bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. During his forty

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year career, he worked with every application of nuclear weapons

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design and testing. He writes a letter to the Oklahoma

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state Representative, Charlie Key. He said, it would have been

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absolutely impossible and against the laws of nature for a

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truck full of fertilizer and fuel oil, no matter how

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much was used to bring that building down. Now, interestingly enough,

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the writer truck bomb earned the name the Manlooker carsanobamb

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after the cheap Italian made rule. And I'm sure I

259
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:05,079
probably said that wrong. With a defective scope, which, by

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the way, that name does sound familiar, that was the

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weapon allegedly used to kill JFK. District Attorney Jim Garrison

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joked about the Shaw conspiracy trial that the government's nuclear

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physics lab could explain how a single bullet could travel

264
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through JFK and Governor Colony Connolly pardon me five times

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while making several U turns, then land in pristine conditions

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on the President's gurney. And of course, the magic bullet theory.

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I'm sure you guys have seen the Seinfellow, the episode

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that mocks it. But in the Oklahoma bombing case, it

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appears the government is attempting to perform a similar feat

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of light and magic. Same with nine to eleven, and

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same with many of the things that we could go

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on and on the eyes of this government. The fact

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that a non directional, low velocity fertilizer bomb parked about

274
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I think it was twenty eight feet from a modern

275
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steel reinforced superstructure could not have caused the pattern and

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degree of damage it did, being widely touted by the

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government or the mainstream press. So again, the government expects

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00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:33,200
the public to believe that two disgruntled amateurs blow up

279
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the Oklahoma City Federal Building with a homemade fertilizer bomb.

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Doctor Roger Rabac doesn't believe the government. He did his

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PhD in physical chemistry and served on the research faculty

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at Stanford University. He goes on to reinforce General Parton's

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assessment is one hundred percent correct. I don't care if

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they pulled up a semi with twenty tons of ammonium nitrate,

285
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It wouldn't do the damage we saw there. And this

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00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:14,559
gentleman who was technical director of a chemical company explained

287
00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:17,319
in an interview for the New American magazine, quote the

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detonition velocity. Detonation velocity pardoned me of the shockwave from

289
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,440
the ANFO, which again ammonium nitrate and fuel oil and

290
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:32,759
FO is on the order of thirty five hundred meters

291
00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:39,279
per second. In comparison, military explosives generally have detonation velocities

292
00:20:39,279 --> 00:20:45,039
that hit between seven and eight thousand plus meters per second. Now,

293
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the most energetic single component explosive, of course, is C four,

294
00:20:50,599 --> 00:20:53,599
which is about eight thousand meters per second and above.

295
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You don't start doing big time damage to heavy structures

296
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until you get into that minimum eight thousand met and

297
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that's minimum. That's why the military uses that type of explosives. Now,

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the government's not happy. The powers that be is not

299
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happy about people like not your Roger Raback. They don't

300
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,680
want you to know that he knows what Sam Grinning knows,

301
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a license perfessional blaster in Casper, Wyoming with over thirty

302
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,759
years experience and explosives. He told The New American that

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the part in letter states, in very precise technical terms,

304
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what everyone in this business knows. No truck bomb out

305
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,640
in the open is going to cause the type of

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damage that we had in Oklahoma City. In my thirty

307
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:52,720
years of blasting using everything from one hundred percent nitrogel

308
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to info, I have never seen anything remotely close to

309
00:21:58,319 --> 00:22:04,279
supporting that theory. In an interview, Gronning said that I

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set off a five thousand pound, five thousand pound pardon

311
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me and fox charge. I was standing one thousand feet

312
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away from it, and all it did was must my hair,

313
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take out the mud and the creek that we were

314
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,160
trying to get rid of. It shattered a few leaves

315
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:26,079
off the trees around it, but it caused zero collateral damage.

316
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Not one tree fell over and some trees were within

317
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:37,960
twenty feet of the five thousand pound a FOE bomb. Now,

318
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,920
of course, the FBI claims that Timothy mcveay and Terry

319
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:47,759
Nichols bought several thousand pounds of AFO the ammonium nitrate

320
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from a farm supply store in Manhattan, Kansas, which is

321
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:58,480
what's there now right Plumb Island moved to Manhattan, Kansas.

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Uh oh. Then, by the way, I got a tick yesterday.

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H be careful guys, especially all you homesteaders. But they

324
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drove to Gary State Park where they mixed a bomb.

325
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The FBI claims that the suspects then hauled their magic

326
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bomb a distance of over five hundred miles, where twenty

327
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four hours later they blew up the Federal Building in

328
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Oklahoma City. Yet, what the FBI, those bastions of truth

329
00:23:29,759 --> 00:23:32,359
and justice, what they don't want you to know is

330
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,559
that fertilizer great ammonia nitrate isn't a very good blasting agent.

331
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:43,039
ASA publication from the Atlas Powder Companies states that quote

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00:23:43,799 --> 00:23:50,039
agriculture fertilizer prills, when made into info, had very poor

333
00:23:50,079 --> 00:23:58,160
explosive characteristics. They would not detonate efficiently because of their

334
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,279
high intensity, lack of paros city, and heavy inert coatings

335
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:07,440
of anti setting agents. The ability of an oiled prill

336
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,599
to be detonated depends greatly upon the density of the prill.

337
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:18,200
Dense prills, such as agricultural grade often are not detonal,

338
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,880
able to be detonated at all, or if initiated, they

339
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,799
perform at a very low rate of detonation and may

340
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,240
die out in the borehole of performing no useful work. Now,

341
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,160
if a bomb bigger than the one they used couldn't

342
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,039
even knock down a tree twenty feet away, go look

343
00:24:38,079 --> 00:24:41,079
at the picture of Oklahoma City that day and tell

344
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me it makes sense. And look at again. I've cited

345
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,599
ARMYTMS on this podcast before. This is Army Technical Manual

346
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:57,200
or TM nine DASH nineteen ten. The grade of ammonia

347
00:24:57,319 --> 00:25:01,960
nitrate used in the manufacture of binary explosives is required

348
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,319
to be at least ninety nine percent pure, contain not

349
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,640
more than one point five percent of moisture, and have

350
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:17,119
maximum a maximum ether soluble, water, insoluble acidity, sulfate and

351
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,559
chloride contents, et cetera numbers. So again, you have a

352
00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:25,759
bomb that is not very easy to mix. Some pool

353
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off So what Grinning is saying here is you'd have

354
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to stir and stir and stir, just get the right

355
00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:38,359
mixture for proper combustibility. And then if it isn't used immediately,

356
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the oil settles to the bottom and it doesn't go off.

357
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I'm going to repeat that in case you missed it.

358
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If it isn't used immediately, the oil settles to the

359
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:57,400
bottom and the bomb doesn't go off. Now, info is

360
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,279
easy to make if you know how to do it,

361
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,599
adds Jeff He is the executive director of the International

362
00:26:03,599 --> 00:26:08,359
Society of Explosives and Engineers. But it takes years of

363
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,119
experience to work with safely. It's almost impossible for an

364
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,039
amateur to properly mix the ammonium nitrate with the fuel

365
00:26:17,079 --> 00:26:23,200
oil because clumps of AFO would inevitably fail to detonate.

366
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:29,960
So again, the scenario of two men mixing these huge

367
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:34,839
barrels of fertilizer and fuel oil in a public park

368
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where you know, gym's over there grilling hot dogs and

369
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burgers and the kids are playing soccer. Hey what you doing, mister, Oh, nothing,

370
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just mixing fuel and fertilizer. Oh, I have a good day, right,

371
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And it's just insulting. Such a spectacle would have been

372
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somebody would have called somebody hikers, people picnicking, somebody fishing

373
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playing softball. That would have drawn way too much attention.

374
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Even Rick Cherrow, who was a former ATF guy had

375
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,319
twenty five years experience with explosive He said it would

376
00:27:16,319 --> 00:27:18,920
have required an area twice the size of the truck

377
00:27:19,079 --> 00:27:21,559
just to walk around, and he said that would have

378
00:27:21,599 --> 00:27:28,000
not gone over okay, So naturally the expert who testified

379
00:27:28,039 --> 00:27:33,880
for the government disagrees. Linda Jones, an explosive specialist who

380
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,720
surely cashed a pretty check from the government who has

381
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:41,680
studied ira bombings in Great Britain, concluded there was one

382
00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:45,480
device and that was in the rear cargo compartment of

383
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:48,599
a rider truck. She added that it wouldn't be difficult

384
00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:51,519
to build such a large bomb, provided they had basic

385
00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:54,880
knowledge of explosives and access to the materials. It'd be

386
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,960
fairly simple. One person could do it on their own.

387
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,000
So I don't know how these people sleep at night,

388
00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:07,960
obviously in satin sheets in a five thousand dollars bed,

389
00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:13,839
But man, you're willing to there's people out there willing

390
00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:17,920
to take a check, to lie to the public, and

391
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,920
while the government built its case on witness accounts of

392
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:27,440
the single rider truck, numerous witnesses uncalled to testify by

393
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,079
the prosecution for the trial, recall seeing not one but

394
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:36,880
two trucks. Could two trucks, one runted by McVeigh, one

395
00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:42,680
known as John Doe number two. Who was it Kenneth

396
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:47,480
trying to do? I mean, who knows? Chero said, I

397
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,319
would buy two trucks simply for logistics, one truck full

398
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,160
of barrels of ammonium nitrate. And then you still have

399
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,880
to get the fuel into it. Because you don't want

400
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,319
to put the fuel in and let it settle for

401
00:29:01,319 --> 00:29:03,799
a day at a time. They would have to bring

402
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,240
something together to mix it, and that's going to take

403
00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:11,440
more than one truck. Two days prior to the Murrah

404
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,720
Building bombing at April seventeenth, David King, staying at the

405
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,920
Dreamland Motel in Junction City, Kansas, where McVeigh and John

406
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,000
Doe number two spent time, remembered seeing the rider truck

407
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,920
with a trailer attached to it. Inside the trailer was

408
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,160
a large object wrapped in white canvas.

409
00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:32,079
Speaker 1: Quote.

410
00:29:32,119 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: It was a square of shape and it came to

411
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,119
a point on top, said King. It was about three

412
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,160
or four feet high. King said later in the day

413
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,519
the trailer was gone, but the truck was still in

414
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:48,720
the lot. So was this witness describing some sophisticated explosive

415
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:54,000
device or was he describing something like a leelly fharm mixer.

416
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,960
Now that farm mixer is about four feet high with

417
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,000
a point at top. But what happened to the trailer?

418
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,559
Why did we never hear about it again? And then

419
00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:06,519
two am April nineteenth, the day of the bombing, a

420
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,720
rider truck pulled into a Save a Trip convenience store

421
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:14,119
in King Kansas, followed by a light colored car in

422
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,839
a brown pickup. Assistant manager Richard Sinnett clearly recalls three men,

423
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:23,759
including McVeigh and a man resembling John Doe number two,

424
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,279
enter the store. Yet Sinnate who was particularly struck by

425
00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:34,359
the odd contraption they were towing, this large plastic, semi

426
00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:39,880
transparent tank of full clear liquid. Now was this diesel

427
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,880
that the bombers intended to add to their ammonium nitrate

428
00:30:44,759 --> 00:30:50,079
at the last minute. Despite amountain of evidence against the

429
00:30:50,119 --> 00:30:54,240
government's ANFO theory, the government has gone two great lengths

430
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,599
to convince the jury and the public that the Murror

431
00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:01,799
Building was destroyed by a single ANPHO bomb delivered by

432
00:31:01,839 --> 00:31:07,599
a pair of disgruntled right wing extremists. In fact, the

433
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,039
ATF televised a demonstration of an ANFO truck bomb detonating

434
00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:17,200
in an effort to prove their contention. Groening said, they

435
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:20,799
fired the thing off. We saw it. It was on CNN.

436
00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:24,000
So what all it did was set off an explosion

437
00:31:24,039 --> 00:31:26,720
and wiggle the trees behind it. It didn't even knock

438
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:32,039
them over. He says, my knowledge comes from practical handling

439
00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:36,279
of explosives, and my belief is that forty eight hundred

440
00:31:36,319 --> 00:31:42,640
pounds of ANFHO wouldn't have scuffed the paint off the building. Now,

441
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,920
the FBI changed the size of the bomb numerous times.

442
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:51,000
If you remember, it was originally a twelve hundred pound bomb,

443
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:53,599
then it was a two thousand pound bomb, then it

444
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,079
was a four thousand pound bomb, before finally stating in

445
00:31:57,119 --> 00:31:59,680
a press release it was forty eight hundred pounds. So

446
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:03,799
they had to keep upgrading the size of the vehicle

447
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,440
and the fertilizer bomb to coincide with the damage. If

448
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,799
you will, and I think you'll actually hear that statement.

449
00:32:12,319 --> 00:32:16,039
When you hear Gunderson speak, he definitely talks about Oklahoma City,

450
00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:19,240
if I recall correctly. But the government also originally claimed

451
00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:22,240
the bomb costs less than one thousand dollars to build,

452
00:32:23,559 --> 00:32:26,799
then just before the trial, the figure was upgraded to

453
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,759
five thousand dollars, and their rationale was based on the

454
00:32:30,039 --> 00:32:34,519
discovery almost two years after the fact, that the suspects

455
00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:39,039
had constructed their magic bomb with racing fuel. You see,

456
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:42,039
it wasn't diesel fuel racing fuel, so it was much

457
00:32:42,119 --> 00:32:48,359
more expensive. And to maintain a semblance of credibility in

458
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:52,519
light of increasingly publicized reports of General Partner and others,

459
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:58,279
the government conceded right before the start of mcveigh's trial

460
00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:05,359
forget this. They publicly conceded that the suspects probably hadn't

461
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:10,359
built their bomb at Geary State Park after all. So

462
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,680
if they admit to one falsification, what else is a lie?

463
00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:22,920
If Timothy McVeigh or anyone else with military training wanted

464
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,920
to destroy that building, it's highly unlikely they would have

465
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:34,960
used ANFO. Okay, as the Army tms clearly state, ANFO

466
00:33:35,079 --> 00:33:39,880
is not good for destroying concrete or steel. And you know,

467
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,319
if you look at who he was, and you know,

468
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:49,039
here's this consummate soldier who studied every conceivable army manual

469
00:33:49,039 --> 00:33:52,799
in a spare time. That's what we're told, including TM

470
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:57,759
thirty one two ten, the Improvised Munition's Handbook. He would

471
00:33:57,759 --> 00:34:03,119
have known this. But the FBI insists that amateur bomb

472
00:34:03,119 --> 00:34:08,920
makers McVeigh and Nichols built this amazing anfho bomb that

473
00:34:09,039 --> 00:34:12,719
killed one hundred and sixty nine people and destroyed a

474
00:34:13,039 --> 00:34:19,880
modern nine story steel reinforced concrete building. Of course, that

475
00:34:20,039 --> 00:34:24,920
was before the government's damage control apparatus went into effect.

476
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:33,960
Now listen, there are hundreds of theories of why they

477
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,840
did it. Most people believe it was a multifaceted test.

478
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,360
One number one, if you look at the time it

479
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:46,639
went off, it basically coincides with the time, you know,

480
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,400
just after nine in the morning, just like nine to eleven, right.

481
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:58,119
But also there's rumors that, you know, the trial that

482
00:34:58,199 --> 00:35:03,159
Clinton was under, and if I'm not mistaken, his wife Hillary,

483
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,679
she was due to speak a couple of weeks after that,

484
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:13,239
and that distracted from that case. And there's rumors that

485
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,400
some documents were kept in that building. That there is

486
00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:23,639
rumors of the vaccine that was undisclosed that was used

487
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:27,159
in Desert Storm. There's your Desert Storm connection. Those documents

488
00:35:27,159 --> 00:35:30,599
and the soldiers who were given that was kept there,

489
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:43,280
We'll never know. Vince Canastrero, ABC News correspondent and former

490
00:35:44,159 --> 00:35:48,920
CIA Intelligent Advisor to the National Security Council said, this

491
00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:52,719
is something professional, and it really implies that the person

492
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:58,920
who constructed the explosive device had experience, was trained in

493
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,800
the use of explode, and they knew what they were doing.

494
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,840
Before he began attacking critics of the government's case. The

495
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,360
government and by the way, go look at Keating's brother's book.

496
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,800
That's no coincidence, right, But Oklahoma governor and former FBI

497
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,039
agent Frank Keating said, obviously whatever did the damage to

498
00:36:20,079 --> 00:36:26,760
the Murrow building was a tremendous, very sophisticated explosive device.

499
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,639
And if you're not familiar with that book, I'll pull

500
00:36:29,679 --> 00:36:32,199
it up here here real quick. It's not in my notes,

501
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:41,480
but I can google it real quick. Dramatic pause. How's

502
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:46,519
everybody doing? So the basic facts. Frank Keating was the

503
00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:51,039
governor of Oklahoma nineteen ninety five. His brother Martin Keating

504
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,119
wrote a novel called The Final Jihad and of course,

505
00:36:55,199 --> 00:36:58,320
Google is quick to say it was written prior to

506
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:03,360
the Oklahoma City bombing, that it was published after the bombing.

507
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,039
I love when Google gate keeps right. And yes, the

508
00:37:08,039 --> 00:37:12,119
book included a terrorist plot involving a bombing in the

509
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:17,800
US heartland. And do you know what the character's name was,

510
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:26,559
Tom McVeigh. It included a plot of bombing and a

511
00:37:26,639 --> 00:37:33,360
traffic stop involving the suspect. And then it goes right

512
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:38,079
back into you know, gatekeeping. But you can't make this

513
00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:42,880
stuff up. The very next day, the government was insisting

514
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:48,639
that a homemade AMPHO bomb made with agricultural grade ammonium

515
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:53,880
nitrate did the job. FBI special agent John Hursley contends

516
00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:58,119
that traces of a military type debt cord known as PDTN,

517
00:37:59,199 --> 00:38:03,599
commonly known as primodete, were found on mcveagh's clothing at

518
00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:09,559
the time of his arrest. Senior FBI chemist Frederick Whitehurst

519
00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:13,800
conducted a test on mcveah's clothing, but he found no residue,

520
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,039
nor did they find any in his car. Whitehurst came

521
00:38:18,039 --> 00:38:22,440
forward with allegations that the FBI has been slanning results

522
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,840
of its forensics tests for years. Collected a thirty page memo,

523
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,679
Whitehurst criticized FBI lab personnel for incompetence. As a Justice

524
00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:38,920
Department memo states, quote, doctor Whitehurst contends that the explosive

525
00:38:39,039 --> 00:38:45,320
units and the Chemistry and Toxicology Unit inappropriately structure their

526
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:51,159
conclusions to favor the prosecution. Wow, you're kidding me. I

527
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,920
can't believe it. You're telling me that I shouldn't trust

528
00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:01,280
the government. No way. According to The Wall Street Journal,

529
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:08,599
Whitehurst's accusations of bias and even manufacturing evidence have called

530
00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:14,679
into question several high profile government cases, including not just

531
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:22,800
Oklahoma City but the World Trade Center bombings. So his

532
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:28,679
allegations were further elaborated on revealing a report issued by

533
00:39:28,679 --> 00:39:34,519
the dog IJ try that again the do IG the

534
00:39:34,519 --> 00:39:40,360
Inspector General's Office, which concluded that Williams repeatedly reached conclusions

535
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:46,719
that incriminated the defendants without a scientific basis that were

536
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:51,400
not explained in the body of the report. So it

537
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:56,320
appears Williams reached his conclusions based not on evidence, but

538
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:01,119
on the fact that Terry Nichols allegedly purchased large qualities

539
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:08,320
of ANFHO and the OIG. The Office of Inspector General

540
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,920
report states that without the evidence of these purchases, Williams

541
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,159
admitted he would have been unable to conclude that ANFO

542
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,559
was used. Indeed, Williams stated that based on the post

543
00:40:20,639 --> 00:40:26,239
blast scene alone, it could have been dynamite. So again,

544
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:31,719
and then of course there's Michael Riconosuto. We've done podcasts

545
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,360
on him before. He told Ted Gunderson that the theory

546
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:40,039
of the drums of ANFO being detonated with his debt

547
00:40:40,119 --> 00:40:44,519
cord was impossible. The only way to obtain blast control

548
00:40:44,639 --> 00:40:49,079
is with volumetric initiation. You can go back and listen

549
00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:50,719
to that podcast. I'm not going to get into the

550
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,480
technical aspects of that. So it pulls us to why

551
00:40:54,599 --> 00:40:58,320
is the government going to such great lengths in spite

552
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,320
of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, to make us believe

553
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,440
the Alfred P. Murrah Building was destroyed by an ANFO bomb,

554
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,920
Because the government's case is built on the premise that

555
00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:16,960
Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols built their alleged bomb with

556
00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:23,480
ammonium nitrate. The calls allegedly made by McVeigh were to

557
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:29,360
stores that sell racing fuel and ammonium nitrate. Mcveigh's fingerprint

558
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,960
is allegedly on a receipt for ammonium nitrate, and a

559
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,320
small trace of that nitrate was allegedly found at the scene,

560
00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:43,840
So the government's case must proceed along those lines. Any

561
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,280
evidence that proves the bomb was made of anything other

562
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,800
than ANFO would not destroy the government's case, or I

563
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,199
should say, not only destroy the government's case, but it

564
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,119
would open up inquiries about who really bombed the Murrah

565
00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:04,559
building and why. So you know, the government had to

566
00:42:04,599 --> 00:42:08,760
stick with the ANPHO theory because Michael and Laurie Fortier

567
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,559
agreed to testify in a plea bargain that their friend

568
00:42:12,679 --> 00:42:17,840
McVeigh arranged soup cans in their kitchen to demonstrate how

569
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:23,239
to make a shaped charge. Yet his bomb experts explained

570
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,559
that there is no way to make a shape charge

571
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:32,039
out of a collection of ANFO barrels. But the government

572
00:42:32,079 --> 00:42:35,360
doesn't want any serious inquiries as to who really blew

573
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,039
up the Murror building. They liked their story, neat tidy.

574
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:43,320
We executed them onto the next thing, right, The government

575
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,760
expects us to believe that two loan amateurs with a

576
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,199
crude fertilizer bomb out in the open twenty to thirty

577
00:42:50,199 --> 00:42:56,039
feet away from a hardened target destroyed eight reinforced columns

578
00:42:56,079 --> 00:43:00,000
and killed one hundred and sixty one hundred and sixty

579
00:43:00,159 --> 00:43:05,239
nine people, And as General Parton said, such a scenario

580
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:12,840
is beyond credulity. Another former ATF agent, Rick Cherrow, he

581
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,239
wrote an article for Soldier Fortune magazine. I used to

582
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:17,639
be a big deal back in the day. I'm not

583
00:43:17,679 --> 00:43:21,039
even sure if that's still a thing, but he wrote

584
00:43:21,039 --> 00:43:28,239
an article entitled bomb bast, bomb Blasts and Bologney. He

585
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,239
contends that General Parton's assessment of the bombing is somehow inaccurate.

586
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:36,679
Cheryl claims that the pressure wave would have struck the

587
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:41,880
building from the rapidly deteriorating blast and the ANFO bomb

588
00:43:42,039 --> 00:43:44,880
three hundred and seventy five psi, according to Parton's figures,

589
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:49,679
would be more than enough to destroy reinforced concrete columns.

590
00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:55,840
And again to Sam Groning, such a statement is preposterous.

591
00:43:58,199 --> 00:44:01,639
Now those who rushed to refuse the evidence presented by

592
00:44:01,679 --> 00:44:07,280
Parton and Raubach and others, They cite evidence of the

593
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,320
nineteen eighty two destruction of the marine bunkers in Beirut Lebanon,

594
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,440
which was a truck bomb driven by what we're told

595
00:44:17,159 --> 00:44:22,559
was an Islamic terrorist. In that instance, however, the truck

596
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:27,480
was driven directly into the building, and it was a

597
00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:33,760
structure much smaller and much lighter than the Murra building. Now,

598
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,360
if you look at August of nineteen seventy, there was

599
00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:42,119
seventeen hundred pounds of info parked in a van outside

600
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:45,960
of the Army Math Research Lab at the University of

601
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:51,519
Wisconsin in Madison Where's Wisconsin again, although parked closer than

602
00:44:51,559 --> 00:44:56,000
the rider truck to the Mura building. Remember, the truck

603
00:44:56,119 --> 00:45:00,519
was I think fifteen feet away, whereas in Murray it

604
00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:04,800
was twenty eight. The bomb barely blew a hole in

605
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:09,719
the outer wall and took out some windows. Nineteen eighty nine,

606
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,159
Columbian Narco terrorists detonated a truck bomb outside the National

607
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:20,159
Security Department in Bagota, Columbia. The vehicle was parked approximately

608
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,199
ten feet from a modern high rise building. Now, the

609
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,840
bomb did indeed decimate the face of the building, but

610
00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:36,559
the support columns were left perfectly intact. The summer of

611
00:45:36,639 --> 00:45:41,960
ninety six, year after Oklahoma City, an IRA truck bomb

612
00:45:42,199 --> 00:45:47,320
detonated in the heart of Manchester's financial district. Now this

613
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:51,440
device again constructed a vanfo and it had about thirty

614
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,840
five hundred pounds of semtex and that's a high velocity,

615
00:45:55,599 --> 00:46:01,800
military grade plastic explosive. Now, that did cause considerable damage

616
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:06,960
to the surrounding buildings, but they were relatively left intact.

617
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,239
Although the device managed to break a lot of windows,

618
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,000
and yes it did Injure two hundred and six people,

619
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:18,239
not a single person was killed. We'll do one more example.

620
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,519
June twenty fifth, nineteen ninety six. Everybody remembers this, and

621
00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:24,519
we all know who got the contract. It was a

622
00:46:24,599 --> 00:46:30,159
tanker trailer packed with RDX plastic explosives blew up outside

623
00:46:30,199 --> 00:46:34,880
the Kobar Towers. I was there, no exactly where it

624
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:38,000
is watched. We were there that night the war started.

625
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:43,000
We watched F sixteen's take off. One after another RDX

626
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:49,360
plastic explosives blew up outside the Kobar Towers, killing nineteen

627
00:46:49,679 --> 00:46:55,400
American servicemen in injuring hundreds. While the blast produced a

628
00:46:55,440 --> 00:47:00,559
crater thirty five feet deep eighty five feet across, the

629
00:47:00,599 --> 00:47:03,880
crater in Oklahoma was what six deep and sixteen across,

630
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,400
it didn't do the same amount of damage done to

631
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:12,239
the Mirror building. The building constructed again. The Mirror Building

632
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:17,719
was constructed to be much more rigorous, more rigorous codes

633
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:26,519
and specifications, and Parton offered this analogy. He said, it

634
00:47:26,519 --> 00:47:30,440
would be as irrational or impossible as a situation in

635
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,559
which a one hundred and fifty pounds man sits in

636
00:47:33,599 --> 00:47:37,760
a flimsy chair, causing the chair to collapse, while a

637
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,480
man weighing fifteen hundred pounds sits in the same chair

638
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:47,599
and it doesn't collapse. It's impossible. And yes, by the way,

639
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:52,960
after that explosion in Cobar and ninety six, yeah, the

640
00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:58,119
bin Laden Construction Company got the award to fix those buildings.

641
00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:01,559
You can't make this stuff up. Jim Loftus, one of

642
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:04,440
the building's architects, said that they were asked to make

643
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,519
the building bomb resistant due to the left wing radicals

644
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:11,639
who were blowing up federal facilities in the early seventies.

645
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,159
The weathermen or what were they called the weather something

646
00:48:16,559 --> 00:48:18,559
and one of them went on to be a government

647
00:48:18,599 --> 00:48:21,199
agent as well. You can't make this stuff up. He

648
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:25,840
said that the building was designed to meet earthquake standards.

649
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:31,159
So he said that the north side of the lower level,

650
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,159
which was the area impacted by the truck bomb, was

651
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:42,320
a steel rebar reinforced concrete without windows. He concurred with

652
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:47,679
both Rawback and Parton that the pressure necessary to destroy

653
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:52,639
the concrete is in the four thousand psi range, which

654
00:48:52,679 --> 00:49:00,320
is a far cry from the thirty psi sighted from Chery. Now,

655
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,119
all of these things may sound tedious, but it's to

656
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:08,000
make a point. It's to reinforce the fact that someone

657
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:12,840
is lying. Look at the Athenian Restaurant, which sat about

658
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,320
one hundred and fifty feet northwest of the Murrah Building.

659
00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:21,199
It was almost completely destroyed, or pieces of the Murrah

660
00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:26,239
Building were actually blown into the Athenian. As video producer

661
00:49:26,679 --> 00:49:31,960
Jerry Longspoull points out, only a bomb inside the Federal

662
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,159
Building would be capable of projecting parts of the building

663
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:41,800
one hundred and fifty feet away. As Groaning notes in

664
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:46,599
a letter to Representative Key, not in your wildest dreams

665
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:51,880
with that much info affect peripheral damage at that distance,

666
00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:55,719
which leads me to suspect that another more powerful device

667
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,679
was used. Now, again, did the atf have devices inside

668
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:03,199
that went off accidentally and they covered that up? Was

669
00:50:03,199 --> 00:50:06,599
it a trial run for nine to eleven? Well, who knows.

670
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,360
There's so many avenues that they could have done this.

671
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:17,079
But again, it takes an absolute evil psychopath to allow this,

672
00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:19,719
And I don't care about your job, or your retirement

673
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,719
or your pension. Everybody involved should be held accountable and

674
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,079
should be in Guantanamo Bay the rest of their lives,

675
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:30,480
and those families should have been compensated and taken care of.

676
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,119
But instead we move on to the next thing, all

677
00:50:35,159 --> 00:50:48,480
in the name of security. So again, if the CIA

678
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,800
or one of its tentacles, and they have many, were involved,

679
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,119
as they invariably tend to be in many cases like this,

680
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,880
they would have a strong motive to cover up the

681
00:51:00,199 --> 00:51:05,159
involvement and redirect the investigation. The most common way of

682
00:51:05,199 --> 00:51:09,440
doing this, It's what they always do propaganda and disinformation.

683
00:51:12,079 --> 00:51:16,360
While Cheryl himself has criticized the ATF and wrote several

684
00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:22,039
articles debunking the government's theory regarding militia groups, this particular

685
00:51:22,159 --> 00:51:25,679
article appeared to be a hit piece designed to discredit

686
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,360
any legitimate analysis of the bombing. And that's what they do, right.

687
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,960
You can put all your cards on the table to

688
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,480
make perfect sense. Two plus two equals four, you know,

689
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:40,320
and they just say you're a conspiracy theorist. That's it.

690
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:43,679
They say three words and you're debunked and everybody else

691
00:51:43,679 --> 00:51:46,519
goes on with their day, but critics of the government

692
00:51:46,599 --> 00:51:51,639
story have gone beyond the ordinary explanations, you know, part

693
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:57,840
and groaning others veterans. Today, there's hundreds, if not thousands,

694
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:05,960
of articles out there debunking the official Narra Larren's Emmanuel,

695
00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:09,480
a Berkeley assistant physics professor who has studied the bombing

696
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,840
is an advocate. His analysis, appeared in the Veritas newsletter,

697
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,840
indicates that the wide extent of the collateral damage was

698
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:27,400
not consistent with a conventional explosion. This paper cites hundreds

699
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:33,199
of examples proving there's no way an anphobomb could have

700
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:38,719
done that type of damage. Ted Gunderson, who you'll be

701
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:43,360
hearing here in the next few minutes, he what did

702
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,039
he run? The Dallas and LA office for the FBI

703
00:52:47,599 --> 00:52:52,880
independently investigated the bombing, included numerous letters and memorandums in

704
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,840
his report, which pointed to the existence of such a device.

705
00:52:58,039 --> 00:53:01,239
He reported that the government contrary number for the bomb

706
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:07,320
was DAAA DASH twenty one DASH ninety C DASH zero

707
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:13,440
zero four five and was manufactured by Dino Noble in

708
00:53:13,519 --> 00:53:19,159
Salt Lake City. There's Utah again. Hmmm, Dino Noble was

709
00:53:19,199 --> 00:53:26,119
previously connected with Hercules Manufacturing, where Raconnosseuto worked. The Department

710
00:53:26,159 --> 00:53:30,320
of the Army denies that contract. Dino Noble refused to

711
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:37,039
respond to inquiries from Gunderson and others. So the bomb

712
00:53:37,159 --> 00:53:41,880
specialist that the government called as its expert witness during

713
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:47,880
the federal grand jury testimony was Robert Hoppler, and Hoppler

714
00:53:48,119 --> 00:53:54,639
had recently retired from Noble. You know, play the old coincidence, jar,

715
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,920
I need to reprogram that. In Chero raised the issue

716
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:02,639
of the electro hyd hide dro dynamic gaseest fuel device

717
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,920
in his Soldier of Fortune magazine. Now, there was one

718
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,280
victim in the Hut office in the Murrah building described

719
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,840
in a National Public Radio or NPR on May twenty third,

720
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:21,199
nineteen ninety five, how she felt a heat wave and

721
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:28,840
a static electricity charge immediately before the windows blew in.

722
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,760
Dana Bradley, who lost her mother and two children in

723
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,960
the bombing, said that she felt electricity running through her

724
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:41,119
body right before the bomb went off. Then you have

725
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,719
another victim, Ramona MacDonald, who was driving a block away.

726
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,480
She remembers seeing a brilliant flash and described the feeling

727
00:54:49,559 --> 00:54:54,360
of static electricity. Quote it made a real loud, static

728
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,679
electricity sound. It sounded like a big swarm of bees.

729
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,360
You could actually hear it. And the next thing was

730
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,840
a real sharp clap like thunder. MacDonald also described both

731
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,599
gold and blue flashes of light. Now Raccona Shudo called

732
00:55:10,639 --> 00:55:15,519
his device blue Death. So again, these people believe that

733
00:55:15,559 --> 00:55:18,840
this top secret weapon was used. Maybe that was the test.

734
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,119
But another survivor of the blast was quoted on CNN

735
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:24,320
as saying that it was just like an atomic bomb

736
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,440
went off. The ceiling went in, all the windows came in,

737
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,639
and there was a deafening roar, and then, of course,

738
00:55:30,119 --> 00:55:33,039
you know, next week we'll play the audio. There was

739
00:55:33,079 --> 00:55:36,360
definitely two blasts. They were very close to each other,

740
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:42,480
but there was definitely definitely to two blasts. And look,

741
00:55:42,599 --> 00:55:48,559
Gunderson Kna Shudo. Of course they've received ridicule and called

742
00:55:48,599 --> 00:55:54,840
conspiracy theorist for suggesting that a super secret pineapple sized

743
00:55:55,280 --> 00:56:00,840
device may have destroyed the Murrah Building. People cautioned that Cohen,

744
00:56:01,639 --> 00:56:03,519
one of the designers of those bombs, said, when I

745
00:56:03,519 --> 00:56:06,000
first came up with the concept of the neutron bomb,

746
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,159
the ridicule I took from the scientific community was something

747
00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:14,119
awful and this included the scientist at the Nobel Prize level,

748
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:22,000
So you know what technology do we have? Who knows

749
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:26,760
One of the more interesting interviews, and we're going to

750
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,280
wrap up today. We'll have part two next week. Gene Wheaton,

751
00:56:31,039 --> 00:56:37,039
a former Pentagon CID investigator, claims that the fuel air

752
00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:41,719
bomb was deployed in the Golf War, along with other

753
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,880
experimental weapons responsible for much of the massive devastation inflicted

754
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:52,320
in Iraq. The fuel air explosive, they call FAE, can

755
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,719
cover an area of one thousand feet wide with blast

756
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:03,639
pressures of two hundred psi. Now, it seems that the

757
00:57:03,679 --> 00:57:09,760
Messerschmidt Vocal Blown company supplied Iraq with plans for this

758
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,920
fuel air explosive. The blueprints were allegedly passed to the

759
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:18,920
Iraqis by the Egyptians, and the word is Iraq commenced

760
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:23,760
commercial production of this weapon. Now, it should be noted

761
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:26,920
that a few minutes before nine am on April nineteenth,

762
00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:30,599
nineteen ninety five, there was a young Arabic man carrying

763
00:57:30,639 --> 00:57:36,400
a backpack seen in the Murrh building hurriedly pushing the

764
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,840
elevator button as trying to get off. And that's something

765
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,760
that you never hear reported right, a few minutes after

766
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,920
he exited the building, well two minutes to be exact,

767
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,480
a bomb went off the elevator doors, which were on

768
00:57:53,559 --> 00:57:55,960
the opposite side of the building from the truck bomb.

769
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,000
Their doors were blown outward. What does that make sense

770
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:06,199
if all the destruction came from the outside. Another military

771
00:58:06,239 --> 00:58:09,880
source agreed that a device similar to the fuel air

772
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:14,960
explosive does exist. They call it the Special Atomic Demolition

773
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,480
Munitions or sodom ah little little shot at Saddam Hussein,

774
00:58:19,519 --> 00:58:24,800
I guess, and it goes on about more Iraq nonsense.

775
00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:28,079
I think this is the perfect place to stock. We'll

776
00:58:28,119 --> 00:58:31,480
get back into it next week and more into the

777
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:34,760
nitty gritty the people involved. We'll place some audio of

778
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,079
the bomb going off and it sounds like two bombs

779
00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:42,119
the Richter scale and what was why did this occur?

780
00:58:44,079 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 1: Right?

781
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 2: And if you missed the Sunday Classic audio, please go

782
00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:50,840
back and listen to it. The Terrence Yakey story massive

783
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:54,679
cover up in itself. This is a deep, deep rabbit

784
00:58:54,719 --> 00:58:57,760
hole and it connects to many others. If you have

785
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:01,000
thoughts insight into it, send me an email The fact

786
00:59:01,079 --> 00:59:03,960
Hunter at mail dot com. Again, the fact Hunter at

787
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:05,840
mail dot com. I won't say your name. I'll just

788
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,880
read your information because there are, I know, dozens and

789
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:13,079
dozens of theories on this. So there you go. Check

790
00:59:13,079 --> 00:59:16,239
out our websites Foundations and faith dot net. Send us

791
00:59:16,239 --> 00:59:18,320
an email the fact hunter dot com. God bless you

792
00:59:18,679 --> 00:59:22,800
stick around for Ted Gunderson. He speaks for about an hour,

793
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,119
so the total will run you about two hours today.

794
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:27,599
There you go, God bless Keep your head on a

795
00:59:27,639 --> 00:59:29,440
swivel and Christ in your heart. Until we meet again,

796
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:31,400
my friends, we will see you.

797
00:59:32,159 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: I want to make it very clear in the beginning

798
00:59:35,519 --> 00:59:40,920
I'm not anti government. I don't believe in terrorism, and

799
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,920
I want to make it especially clear that there are

800
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:48,280
a lot of good people in the FBI and the CIA,

801
00:59:49,199 --> 00:59:56,519
Naval Intelligence, Army Intelligence, Military Intelligence NSA. Unfortunately, there are

802
00:59:56,639 --> 01:00:01,199
a few key people in key possessions who have made

803
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:06,360
a difference, a big difference in what's happening in America today.

804
01:00:07,159 --> 01:00:13,320
So looking back my personal experiences, I retired from the

805
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:18,800
FBI March nineteen seventy nine. At that time, I was

806
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,280
in charge of the FBI Los Angeles Division. I had

807
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,719
more than seven hundred personnel under my command. The Attorney

808
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:29,840
General of the United States. Griffin Bell asked me after

809
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,800
I retired, if I coordinate security for the Pan American Games.

810
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:36,559
I did. I was a consultant in the nineteen eighty

811
01:00:36,559 --> 01:00:41,639
four Los Angeles Olympics. I was a consultant for former

812
01:00:41,679 --> 01:00:48,000
Governor Jerry Brown California California Narcotic Authority. So I do

813
01:00:48,079 --> 01:00:54,320
have credentials. My first major and credibility. Believe me, if

814
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,519
you read the Internet, you may not think so, because

815
01:00:56,559 --> 01:01:00,760
there are some heavy duty FBI and forms out there,

816
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,880
like Stu Webb and Barbara Hartwell, who are MK ultra

817
01:01:04,039 --> 01:01:08,760
mind control victims, CIA mind control victims who are making

818
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,239
all kinds of disparaging remarks about me. But I don't

819
01:01:11,239 --> 01:01:13,679
want to deal with those people because if you read

820
01:01:13,719 --> 01:01:17,920
their material, you'll see that it's designed to discredit people

821
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:23,079
like me, former State Senator John D. Camp and other

822
01:01:23,239 --> 01:01:28,360
leaders who are trying our best to expose what's happening

823
01:01:28,559 --> 01:01:34,840
in America today and actually around the world. Let's go

824
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:40,960
back to seventeen seventy six May. The first Adam Weissoff

825
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:47,559
was commissioned by the Rothschild family to set up the

826
01:01:47,679 --> 01:01:54,400
goals to control and take over the world with a

827
01:01:54,559 --> 01:01:59,800
one world government. Adam Weissoff came up with twenty five.

828
01:02:01,599 --> 01:02:08,039
Among these goals were control the press, corrupt the youth

829
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:13,559
through sex and drugs, elect our own people our own people,

830
01:02:13,719 --> 01:02:18,760
meaning the Illuminati, to key positions in all levels of

831
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:24,639
the government city, county, state, and federal, and it goes on.

832
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:29,719
The final goal was to take over the world the

833
01:02:29,719 --> 01:02:34,800
one World government. Information is very well documented by William

834
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:38,440
guy Carr and his magazine, his book Excuse Me Pawns

835
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:43,119
in the Game. When I retired, I had no idea

836
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:47,559
what was going on. I had no idea about the Illuminati.

837
01:02:47,639 --> 01:02:52,360
I had no idea about Adam Weissoff. However, my first

838
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:57,320
major investigation when I returned from Puerto Rico was a

839
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:02,599
doctor Jeffrey R. A. McDonald case. He's a former Green

840
01:03:02,639 --> 01:03:05,360
Beret doctor who was convicted of murdering his wife and

841
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:12,840
two children at Fort Bragg February seventeenth, nineteen seventy. He'd

842
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:18,119
been tried and convicted and sentenced to three consecutive life sentences.

843
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:23,119
I was asked by the defense team to investigate the

844
01:03:23,159 --> 01:03:27,800
case because they claimed that doctor McDonald was innocent. I

845
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,719
said I would, but if I learned that he murdered

846
01:03:30,719 --> 01:03:34,400
his wife and two children. I would discontinue my investigation

847
01:03:34,559 --> 01:03:39,239
no longer become involved. I want you to know I'm

848
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:47,159
still working for doctor McDonald's he is an innocent man. Now.

849
01:03:47,239 --> 01:03:49,079
Once I became involved in the case, I had to

850
01:03:49,079 --> 01:03:53,039
read everything, and I learned that evidence was lost, evidence

851
01:03:53,159 --> 01:04:00,000
was stolen, evidence was altered. An FBI Gt. Paul stamenbaught

852
01:04:00,199 --> 01:04:07,800
lied before the grand jury, and most important of all, Collette,

853
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,960
the wife had skin where she had fought off the

854
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:15,440
assailants under her fingernails. Bad skin was handed over to

855
01:04:15,519 --> 01:04:19,760
William f Ivory, the chief investigator for the army, and

856
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:25,239
it has disappeared. Ten months into the case October twenty five,

857
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:30,159
nineteen eighty, I, through a series of circumstances I don't

858
01:04:30,199 --> 01:04:33,039
have time to go into the details now, obtained a

859
01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:40,400
sign confession from one Helena Stokeley. I had three sessions

860
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,239
with her ten days east total of thirty days. Helena

861
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,880
told me that doctor McDonald did not commit those crimes,

862
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:53,559
that they were committed by her Satanic cold group. And

863
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:55,840
I said to myself, what's this all about. I don't

864
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,880
know think about Satanism. I read about it in the Bible,

865
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:02,519
of course, and that's about it. But as I delved

866
01:05:02,559 --> 01:05:09,760
into the case, I learned that drugs from Southeast Asia

867
01:05:10,119 --> 01:05:13,719
were being flown into the United States the various military

868
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:18,840
bases in plastic bags in the bodies of the dead gis.

869
01:05:21,159 --> 01:05:25,519
I further learned from Elena that her Satanny Colt group

870
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,480
was involved in distributing these drugs up and down the

871
01:05:29,519 --> 01:05:34,840
East Coast. They were mad at doctor McDonald because he

872
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:39,679
was abusive to the cult members and the gis who

873
01:05:39,719 --> 01:05:43,440
went to the civilian hospital where he was moonlighting for

874
01:05:43,559 --> 01:05:47,280
relief of some sort. They went in and attacked him

875
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,880
that night. There were totally seven involved in the crime.

876
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,360
She named them all for me right now today I

877
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:59,079
know where some of them are located, but further check

878
01:05:59,199 --> 01:06:03,679
and document them. I went to the UCLA Library and

879
01:06:03,719 --> 01:06:08,239
I found out, in fact, in the Time magazine January one,

880
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:13,280
nineteen seventy three, there was an article about bringing drugs

881
01:06:13,519 --> 01:06:16,000
and plastic bagging the body cavities of dead g eyes.

882
01:06:17,199 --> 01:06:20,400
There was no question in my mind that Lena was

883
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,519
telling the truth. I gave her a polygraph test and

884
01:06:23,639 --> 01:06:26,880
she passed. I had her examined by a psychiatrists she passed,

885
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,440
and as a matter of fact, the government themselves had

886
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:33,800
given her a polygraph examination early in their investigation before

887
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:38,159
I entered the case, and Brisantine, the Army polygraph operator,

888
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,079
said that she thought that she was telling the truth.

889
01:06:41,119 --> 01:06:44,159
She thought she was there that night. Now, the most

890
01:06:44,199 --> 01:06:47,519
recent series of events in the McDonald case. Now, I'm

891
01:06:47,519 --> 01:06:49,840
telling you a little about the McDonald key because that's

892
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,159
what woke me up as to what was going on.

893
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,679
It was after that that I started researching and went

894
01:06:55,719 --> 01:07:01,679
back and found out about the Illuminati, Illuminati, Satanism. It

895
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:06,800
was after that that I learned considerable more about what

896
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:12,840
was going on. And the most recent information, Doctor McDonald,

897
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,840
who's been in the penitentiary for some twenty five or

898
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:20,280
twenty six years now appeared before a parole board just

899
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:24,599
two days ago, his first that he's ever appeared before

900
01:07:24,639 --> 01:07:26,719
a parole board. And the reason he had never appeared

901
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:31,079
before is because, in his opinion, had he appeared before,

902
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:35,840
it would be an admission of guilt in this particular innsence.

903
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:38,639
He still claimed he was innocent. But he did appear

904
01:07:38,679 --> 01:07:42,639
before the board because a newly wed individual with a

905
01:07:42,679 --> 01:07:46,840
woman named Kathy, and of course, if you read the papers.

906
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,920
In the last two days, his parole was turned down

907
01:07:51,039 --> 01:07:54,679
and the parole board made him eligible for another hearing

908
01:07:55,400 --> 01:08:01,559
in fifteen years. This poor man not only lost his

909
01:08:01,719 --> 01:08:05,960
wife and two children, he has served twenty five years

910
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:09,320
in the penitentiary and another fifteen years ago. He's sixty

911
01:08:09,559 --> 01:08:14,800
one years old. I am still working the case. What

912
01:08:14,880 --> 01:08:19,119
are the latest developments on the case. In nineteen ninety seven,

913
01:08:20,279 --> 01:08:27,119
the judge, federal judge, agreed to do DNA tests and

914
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:33,640
they chose fifteen individual pieces of evidence to be examined. However,

915
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:38,479
the judge said that when you open the evidence envelopes,

916
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:44,720
only the prosecutor can be present. Well, they opened the

917
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:49,479
evidence envelopes, the prosecutor did, how many do you think

918
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:56,239
were empty? Five? Five evidence envelopes were empty. The skin

919
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:02,119
under Klett's fingernails would have established doctor McDonald's innocence alone.

920
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:07,560
Now we have DNA authorized nineteen ninety seven. Here we

921
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,800
are in two thousand and five. They still have not

922
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:16,079
completed the DNA is from the McDonald case. The next

923
01:09:16,119 --> 01:09:20,399
case I worked of a major consequence was the McMartin

924
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:26,319
preschool case in Manhattan Beach, California. The children there claimed

925
01:09:27,279 --> 01:09:31,439
there were tunnels under the school. They were taken into

926
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:35,520
the tunnels and through the tunnels up into the trap

927
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:40,840
door of a bathroom in the triplex next door, placed

928
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:46,960
in automobiles, and prostituted in the community. These are two

929
01:09:47,199 --> 01:09:50,760
three and four year old children before they entered kindergarten.

930
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:56,960
In addition, the children claimed that they were flown into

931
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:02,159
the mountains where they were involved with adults in robes,

932
01:10:02,239 --> 01:10:09,199
black robes, chanting candles. They talked about the brown babies

933
01:10:09,199 --> 01:10:13,760
who were who were cut up, actually sacrificed, and then

934
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:16,960
checking into this and researching this. Of course, this was

935
01:10:17,079 --> 01:10:22,520
obviously a satanic ceremony. The McMartin family who owned the preschool,

936
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:27,079
they were tried of Dray Bucky and his grandmother. The

937
01:10:27,119 --> 01:10:30,920
grandmother was acquitted hung jury on Ray Bucky. The second

938
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:37,399
trial another hung jury. I had an opportunity in nineteen

939
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:44,399
ninety to gain control of the school. Now the school

940
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:50,000
had been given to Danny Davis, the defense attorney, and

941
01:10:50,039 --> 01:10:52,680
he had sold it even though he made fifteen million

942
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:55,840
dollars on the case. By the way, he had sold

943
01:10:55,880 --> 01:11:00,680
it to a contractor who was going to tear it down.

944
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,880
When I learned this, I contacted the contractor. I said,

945
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:09,640
I want to be given an opportunity to go on

946
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:14,520
that school and look for the tunnels. The authorities had

947
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:17,800
looked for them in nineteen eighty seven they said they

948
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:22,600
could find no tunnels. Along with some of the parents,

949
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:30,039
we hired doctor Gary Stickle, UCLA archaeologists. He hired his

950
01:11:30,199 --> 01:11:34,399
crew and brought them in and in thirty four days

951
01:11:35,399 --> 01:11:39,439
doctor Stickle said there had been tunnels under that school.

952
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,960
They were covered up and they were covered in. An

953
01:11:43,039 --> 01:11:46,920
informant of mine told me that there was an abandoned

954
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:51,720
Satanic site in Crestline, California, up in the mountains. I

955
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:57,640
went up into the mountains and obtained copies, photocopies, photographs,

956
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:02,319
excuse me of the site. I have a lecture that

957
01:12:02,399 --> 01:12:06,159
I give where these pictures are available. It's called Gundersen

958
01:12:06,239 --> 01:12:09,279
Chronicles number two. It's a four hour lecture that I

959
01:12:09,319 --> 01:12:12,560
gave in Kansas City a number of years ago. It

960
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:16,920
number of years ago, which shows this abandoned site and

961
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:23,560
also pictures from the McMartin Tunnel's school day. From there,

962
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:31,960
I became involved in another case, very frightening case, because

963
01:12:32,039 --> 01:12:34,800
I established with the help of people like John DeCamp,

964
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:39,840
former State Senator Nebraska, that we had in this country

965
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:50,520
today a covert military criminal enterprise government enterprise primarily by

966
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:57,600
US military intelligence that is operating full throttle, and everybody

967
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:03,199
refuses to investigate it. In the Nebraska case, it's called

968
01:13:03,199 --> 01:13:06,359
the Franklin cover up. This is the book here that

969
01:13:06,399 --> 01:13:08,960
I that Johnny Camp wrote. By the way, it's all

970
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:13,880
documented in there. And in that particular instance, they were

971
01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:21,479
taking children out of foster homes, orphanages, boys town, driving

972
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,199
them from Omaha, Nebraska to Sussi I one hundred and

973
01:13:24,239 --> 01:13:30,119
eighty four miles away, placing them in private jets and

974
01:13:30,159 --> 01:13:35,039
flying them in Washington, DC for sex orgies with prominent

975
01:13:35,079 --> 01:13:40,520
people including congressman, senators, and certain people in the White House.

976
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:47,359
It's well documented. I have personally talked to Paul Banazi.

977
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,760
I have five hour interview with him. It's it's a

978
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:51,560
tape that's available. I don't have it with me here,

979
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,159
but you can order it. I have a five hour

980
01:13:54,159 --> 01:13:56,800
interview with Paul that I gave that he gave me

981
01:13:56,840 --> 01:14:01,000
in nineteen ninety three. Paul told me now he was used.

982
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:06,039
He was part of the kidnapping crew and was used

983
01:14:06,079 --> 01:14:08,560
as a decoy and when he was ten, eleven, twelve

984
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:14,319
years old, in parks shopping malls, to attract the children

985
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:18,000
over near where the adults were in a car waiting

986
01:14:18,039 --> 01:14:21,680
for them. They throw them in the backseat, chloroform them,

987
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,319
and make off with them. Paul also told me that

988
01:14:25,359 --> 01:14:30,760
these children, many of them, become sex slaves, medium are

989
01:14:30,920 --> 01:14:34,680
used as toys. The boys. They call the boys toys.

990
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,960
I don't know what they call the girls, but these degenerate,

991
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:42,119
sick people, the men are more interested in the little

992
01:14:42,159 --> 01:14:45,800
boys than they are the girls for some reason. But

993
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:50,960
it's all well documented. Paul drew the inside living quarters

994
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:54,880
of the White House. Now, this information broke in about

995
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:58,439
nineteen eighty seven, that's about right after I entered. Just

996
01:14:58,479 --> 01:15:01,600
before I entered the case, I replaced the fellow named

997
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:09,000
Gary Karadori, who was the investigator for a Nebraska Senate committee.

998
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:14,680
Gary met the official photographer of the group who had

999
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:22,640
split from the group, defected and agreed to take the

1000
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:26,960
pictures that this official photographer gave him, and they met

1001
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:31,079
in Chicago agreed to take the pictures back to the committee.

1002
01:15:31,119 --> 01:15:34,520
He flew out of Chicago in his private plane short

1003
01:15:35,319 --> 01:15:38,760
period a short distance out of Chicago. The plane exploded

1004
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:43,119
mid air, and his briefcase has never been found. He

1005
01:15:43,159 --> 01:15:47,039
and his eleven year old boy were died. His briefcase

1006
01:15:47,039 --> 01:15:50,720
has never been found. The rear seat of the airplane

1007
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:55,640
has never been found. I made every attempt possible to

1008
01:15:55,680 --> 01:16:03,319
obtain and obtained possession of or control of that plane

1009
01:16:04,039 --> 01:16:09,079
because I wanted to examine it for bomb chemicals, particularly

1010
01:16:09,079 --> 01:16:12,000
in the back seat. It's no longer available. Nobody knows

1011
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,720
what happened to it. Gary Carrydar was a civilian, yet

1012
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:22,039
it was taken to a military base for examination. A

1013
01:16:22,119 --> 01:16:25,760
deputy sheriff was the first one on the scene. He

1014
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:29,479
saw the pictures. He started picking up the pictures. An

1015
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,800
FBI agent came along, took the pictures away from him

1016
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:37,359
and told him to keep his mouth shut. He started

1017
01:16:37,399 --> 01:16:40,960
talking to a few people. A year later, his wife

1018
01:16:41,039 --> 01:16:47,600
was murdered. He's no longer talking. This international child kidnapping ring,

1019
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:54,479
I later learned was out of Washington, d C. It

1020
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:59,159
was very active, and the organization is known as the Finders,

1021
01:17:00,039 --> 01:17:02,239
and I have a report on the Finders back there.

1022
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:06,640
Everything I'm telling you is documented by the way the

1023
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:12,039
Finders has been established and operating throughout the nineteen sixties

1024
01:17:12,119 --> 01:17:16,199
up to the present time. It was exposed in nineteen

1025
01:17:16,239 --> 01:17:20,279
eighty seven, they moved their operation to which dalk Kansas,

1026
01:17:20,319 --> 01:17:24,159
and they're operating right today in which dalk Kansas. I

1027
01:17:24,279 --> 01:17:30,039
have taken my report to the FBI half a dozen times,

1028
01:17:31,039 --> 01:17:35,520
demanded an investigation, and I have yet to be interviewed.

1029
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:43,319
So we have the finders. We have the Franklin cover up,

1030
01:17:43,319 --> 01:17:46,520
which documents what I'm telling you. We have the pawns

1031
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:50,079
in the game. Pawns in the game is the Illuminati.

1032
01:17:50,199 --> 01:17:54,119
This is the Illuminati, slice Satanic movement in this country today.

1033
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,039
And the last thing I'm gonna mention in the way

1034
01:17:58,039 --> 01:18:03,439
of a book is why Johnny can't come home. Johnny

1035
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:11,439
Gosh was September the fifth, nineteen eighty two, a newspaper

1036
01:18:11,439 --> 01:18:16,319
boy on a Sunday, and he was about to deliver

1037
01:18:16,399 --> 01:18:22,159
his newspapers in Western Wine, Iowa. He never delivered any newspapers.

1038
01:18:23,319 --> 01:18:29,479
He disappeared. The mother of Marine Gosh was dumbfounded, didn't

1039
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:35,319
know what happened, demanded an investigation of the FBI and

1040
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:39,760
by the Western Wine Police Department. The chief of police

1041
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:45,680
in Western Wine said to her, even though he disappeared.

1042
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:48,119
We do not have any witnesses who saw him being

1043
01:18:48,199 --> 01:18:52,439
grabbed and placed in a car or being taken control of,

1044
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:55,920
so we're not going to investigate it. The FBI used

1045
01:18:55,920 --> 01:19:00,600
the same premise. They refused to investigate it. Involved in

1046
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:05,399
kidnappings in the FBI, and I can tell you that

1047
01:19:05,479 --> 01:19:08,239
it's automatic within twenty four hours, at the end of

1048
01:19:08,279 --> 01:19:12,039
twenty four hours that we had to go in. In my day,

1049
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:16,640
this is back in the fifties, sixties, and seventies, we

1050
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:21,399
had to go in and start investigating the case after

1051
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:27,600
they've disappeared for twenty four hours. Today, as I stand

1052
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:32,199
here and you sit there, the children are disappearing in

1053
01:19:32,239 --> 01:19:37,119
this country at the rate of eighty three per hour.

1054
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:43,640
That's over seven hundred thousand children a year. Now, I

1055
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:47,760
can go back to July nineteen eighty two, the Reader's

1056
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,720
Digest claimed there were one hundred thousand children disappearing every year.

1057
01:19:52,359 --> 01:19:56,800
There's another statistic that I find very interesting, and that

1058
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:01,760
is that it is estimated two thousand and five hundred

1059
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:06,279
children are kidnapped and murdered in this country every year.

1060
01:20:08,279 --> 01:20:13,960
That's an unbelievable figure. Yet the FBI refuses to investigate

1061
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:22,520
it now after the Nebraska case and part of the

1062
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:27,920
Nebraska case. Most recently, we have an young man named

1063
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:34,960
Jeff Gannon who has appeared in the White House using

1064
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:38,000
a fraudulent press pass. This has happened within the last month.

1065
01:20:42,119 --> 01:20:44,439
Certain people in the White House were questioning him and

1066
01:20:44,479 --> 01:20:48,199
were suspicious of him because but he would engage in

1067
01:20:48,239 --> 01:20:51,760
a press conference with the President President Bush. He was

1068
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:57,439
asking what they call soft questions, soft questions meaning the

1069
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:03,079
President would have an answer for them. He'd look. Somebody

1070
01:21:03,079 --> 01:21:07,720
start checking into his background. They learned that he was

1071
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:14,079
actually an individual named Jim Guckert. This is all on

1072
01:21:14,119 --> 01:21:20,479
the Internet, by the way, and Guckert had a homosexual website.

1073
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:28,520
So Jeff Gadden is an alias of Jim gucker Now

1074
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:35,960
his picture appeared in the Internet and he is believed

1075
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:42,199
to be Johnny Gosh, who was kidnapped September the five,

1076
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:48,520
nineteen eighty two. The mother and Irene Gosh who wrote

1077
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:52,159
this book Why Johnny Can't Come Home. I have a

1078
01:21:52,159 --> 01:21:56,840
two hour interview with her on video available again if

1079
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:02,159
you want to check my order blank. She did not

1080
01:22:02,279 --> 01:22:04,359
sit still for this. Can you imagine if the eighty

1081
01:22:04,399 --> 01:22:08,199
three mothers of children who disappear every hour. Would do

1082
01:22:08,239 --> 01:22:10,760
what the ring Gosh has done, we wouldn't have this

1083
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:17,000
problem today. She went to the FBI demand an investigation.

1084
01:22:17,079 --> 01:22:20,239
They refused to investigate. The police refused to investigate because

1085
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:25,680
the case tied into the Franklin cover up. Some of

1086
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:32,199
our top politicians in the country, leading businessmen Harold Anderson,

1087
01:22:32,199 --> 01:22:34,399
had done fighted by the children past published of the

1088
01:22:34,399 --> 01:22:38,399
Omo World Herald. The head of the Nebraska Forestry Service

1089
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:41,840
was identified by these children or eighty children came forward

1090
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:46,680
in this Nebraska case. And it goes, as I said,

1091
01:22:47,159 --> 01:22:50,079
right up to the White House in nineteen eighty seven.

1092
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:57,079
According to Paul Banassi, he was furnishing toys or little boys,

1093
01:22:57,159 --> 01:23:03,479
young boys to the sick people, certain sick individuals in

1094
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:09,359
the White House itself. I have the names of some

1095
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:13,720
of these people, no need to mention it here. Some

1096
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:17,720
of them are mentioned in the Franklin cover of But

1097
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:22,520
it does appear that Jeff Gannon is in fact Johnny

1098
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:27,359
Gosh Green Gosh. The mother has looked at the pictures.

1099
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:31,960
She believes it's Johnny Gosh because he has a scar

1100
01:23:32,239 --> 01:23:34,439
on his right cheek. But the size of the nickel,

1101
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:41,680
it's white Dannon has a scar there. Also, little Johnny

1102
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:45,159
Gosh had a birthmark on his left chest about eight

1103
01:23:45,199 --> 01:23:49,640
inches long. From looking at pictures of Jeff Cannon on

1104
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:53,239
the Internet, it appears that he had a birthmark at

1105
01:23:53,239 --> 01:23:56,199
one time, and there's been an attempt to erase it.

1106
01:23:58,079 --> 01:24:02,600
I personally talked to one of the youngsters who was

1107
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:06,720
involved in this network. I've talked to several of them,

1108
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:09,880
and he assures me that Jeff Cannon is in fact

1109
01:24:10,039 --> 01:24:15,840
Johnny Gosh. Well, how did Johnny Gosh get from Western Maine, Iowa,

1110
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:20,399
twelve years old, all the way with the phony press

1111
01:24:20,439 --> 01:24:26,239
pass into the White House as of a few weeks ago. Well,

1112
01:24:26,239 --> 01:24:30,680
what happened to Johnny is that he was transported from

1113
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:36,960
Western Maine, Iowa, to Sioux City. He was placed on

1114
01:24:37,039 --> 01:24:42,439
a farm for three weeks, sexually molested. He was taken

1115
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:48,159
to the mountains in Colorado, placed in a cage in

1116
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:52,359
a house of some sort or a cabin, and then

1117
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:56,600
later he was used as a sex slave, a sex slave.

1118
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:00,720
They didn't kill him, they didn't sacrifice number of these

1119
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:07,560
kids are sacrificed in Satanic ceremonies. Now he escaped with

1120
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:11,439
another young man. They stole a car. And in nineteen

1121
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:15,760
ninety seven, Johnny knocked on his mother's door at two

1122
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:20,359
thirty in the morning, marine Gosh and said he wanted

1123
01:25:20,359 --> 01:25:23,640
to talk to her. He was there with another young boy.

1124
01:25:24,359 --> 01:25:28,720
He came in. He told Loraine. He says, mother, I

1125
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:39,119
was kidnapped. I've been placed in a covert military CIA

1126
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:45,239
controlled mind controlled project and used as a sex slave.

1127
01:25:47,319 --> 01:25:50,640
He said, I can't come forward at this time, they

1128
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:55,520
will kill me, and then he left. Lorraine says that's

1129
01:25:55,520 --> 01:25:59,399
the last time she talked to him. Nineteen ninety seven. Now,

1130
01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:05,199
several years after that, a girl named Burns, who was

1131
01:26:05,199 --> 01:26:09,560
a producer for twenty twenty, decided to do a story

1132
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:14,600
on the Johnny Gosh kidnapping and the Nebraska case, and

1133
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,319
she interviewed me. In fact, I had spent five days

1134
01:26:17,319 --> 01:26:19,359
with her, gave her the benefit of all my research,

1135
01:26:19,399 --> 01:26:23,079
which is available to you folks also. And then she

1136
01:26:23,159 --> 01:26:26,359
got a lead that Johnny was hiding out on an

1137
01:26:26,399 --> 01:26:30,600
Indian reservation in northern Minnesota. She went there and flushed

1138
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:36,319
him out, and he basically went into hiding. And now

1139
01:26:36,359 --> 01:26:38,479
he shows up at the White House. He was a

1140
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:41,920
mind control victim. If you don't know anything, about MKLTR

1141
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:47,039
mind control program. It came into this country through the

1142
01:26:47,119 --> 01:26:52,119
German Scientus after World War Two. They were involved with

1143
01:26:52,239 --> 01:26:56,000
the Nazis during the war and prior to World War

1144
01:26:56,039 --> 01:27:04,079
two and developing robots and individuals to be used on

1145
01:27:04,239 --> 01:27:10,319
command for anything that they wished, including assassinations and other

1146
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:16,279
nefarious activity. The Mkoltry program CI mind control program was

1147
01:27:16,319 --> 01:27:20,840
investigated by Congress in nineteen eighty seven. Congress said, see

1148
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:23,880
how you got to quit doing that. That's your bad boys,

1149
01:27:25,159 --> 01:27:29,239
and they said, we will quit. Don't kid yourself. It's

1150
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:33,920
very active today. There are people like Barbara Hartwell out

1151
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:36,319
there who are a mind control victims. He's another one

1152
01:27:36,319 --> 01:27:38,520
that's been bashing me. I must have been doing a

1153
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:41,000
pretty good job, because they wouldn't have these people criticizing

1154
01:27:41,039 --> 01:27:43,840
me on the internet like they do. And of course

1155
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:47,319
it doesn't bother me in the least. But going back

1156
01:27:47,399 --> 01:27:50,920
to the Nebraska case, mk Ultra, a lot of this

1157
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:54,399
training took place at off at Air Force Base in Omaha, Nebraska,

1158
01:27:54,439 --> 01:27:58,119
which was says str Teaching care Command headquarters. You recall,

1159
01:27:58,199 --> 01:28:01,880
after nine to one one the President flew to I

1160
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:04,720
think it was to the south, someplace in Louisiana or

1161
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,800
New Orleans. And then he flew to off At Air

1162
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:12,520
Force Base in the afternoon of September eleventh, o one,

1163
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:14,800
and they had a party there that morning at nine

1164
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:16,359
thirty in the morning. He missed the party. He was

1165
01:28:16,399 --> 01:28:18,439
sorry he missed the party. Warren Buffo was there by

1166
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:23,119
the way, And the mk ULTU program has been very

1167
01:28:23,119 --> 01:28:27,399
actively administered, not only at off At Air Force Base

1168
01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:32,039
at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, the pace where Dr McDonald's

1169
01:28:32,039 --> 01:28:39,800
family was slaughtered in nineteen seventy. Now the Nebraska case.

1170
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:45,479
I don't want to leave that without telling you that

1171
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:50,079
in the early nineteen nineties, Yorkshire TV came to the

1172
01:28:50,159 --> 01:28:54,159
United States with a camera crew for seven months to

1173
01:28:54,239 --> 01:29:00,000
do a documentary on it. They went back to England,

1174
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:06,199
produced the documentary, and they brought it over into the

1175
01:29:06,279 --> 01:29:12,000
United States. It was listed in the TV Guide to

1176
01:29:12,079 --> 01:29:17,640
be aired or May the third, nineteen ninety four. When

1177
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:22,239
certain members of Congress found out about it, they have

1178
01:29:22,319 --> 01:29:28,960
threatened the cable industry with restrictive legislation. Somebody anonymously bought

1179
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:34,279
up the rights to the videotape for the documentary and

1180
01:29:34,399 --> 01:29:38,079
ordered all copies destroyed. I just happened to have a

1181
01:29:38,079 --> 01:29:43,520
bootleg copy of that documentary, and it is available. I

1182
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:47,000
have been selling these and these books and getting this

1183
01:29:47,079 --> 01:29:50,840
report out of mind to anybody that's interested in it.

1184
01:29:51,319 --> 01:29:53,880
And by the way, I have a five package deal

1185
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:57,079
for you at about the fifteen percent discount fifteen to

1186
01:29:57,119 --> 01:30:01,840
twenty percent discount if you buy all five items. So

1187
01:30:03,079 --> 01:30:07,520
about six months ago, as any good investigator would do,

1188
01:30:09,239 --> 01:30:10,640
I said, I'm going to get a copy of that

1189
01:30:10,720 --> 01:30:13,880
TV Guide. I didn't have a copy. John and Camp

1190
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:16,680
had one one time, couldn't find it as typical of

1191
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:22,319
John by the way, good friend, great guy, And so

1192
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:24,159
I said, I'm gonna eat my own copy. So I

1193
01:30:24,199 --> 01:30:28,760
wrote to TV guide people and I received a copy

1194
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:31,439
of the TV Guide from May third, nineteen ninety four,

1195
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:38,479
ten PM Discovery Channel. It's not listed a Nature show

1196
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:45,760
is listed instead on the new reprinted edition. I'm not

1197
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:48,920
going to be out fox with these people. I went

1198
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:54,840
to the Los Angeles Times TV log. It's listed Conspiracy

1199
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:58,880
of Silence. I called a friend of mine in Philadelphia,

1200
01:30:59,000 --> 01:31:00,600
and I said, check the TV me love for the

1201
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:04,920
Philadelphian Choir. Conspiracy of Silence is listed in the Philadelphian

1202
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:10,279
choir the power of the press, they changed and reprinted

1203
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:16,800
the whole TV guide. It never has been shown publicly

1204
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:19,319
in the United States, and I doubt if it ever

1205
01:31:19,399 --> 01:31:21,520
will be shown publicly. But as I said, it is

1206
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:27,640
available to you. Now. That's not the end of the

1207
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:34,640
story for me, because I am continuously probing, continuously working,

1208
01:31:35,399 --> 01:31:39,640
continuously talking to various sources and putting it on paper

1209
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:43,399
and documenting and getting the word out. This is the

1210
01:31:43,439 --> 01:31:47,039
direction that we have to go. Americans, for the most part,

1211
01:31:47,119 --> 01:31:51,359
are oblivious to what's really going on behind the scenes.

1212
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:56,680
One of the things that in addition to the McDonald's

1213
01:31:56,680 --> 01:32:02,159
case that got me thinking was the Jack Kennedy assassination.

1214
01:32:04,319 --> 01:32:06,119
So I checked into that. And by the way, I

1215
01:32:06,199 --> 01:32:08,119
used to be in charge of the FBI in Dallas,

1216
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:12,239
and also I was in charge in Los Angeles after Dallas.

1217
01:32:14,119 --> 01:32:18,920
So in checking into the Jack Kennedy assassination, I learned

1218
01:32:19,159 --> 01:32:22,479
no question about it that it was a joint hit

1219
01:32:22,600 --> 01:32:26,359
by the CIA and the Chicago mob. Sam Jean Canna,

1220
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:29,960
head of the La Cosa ouster in Chicago, three days

1221
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:34,119
before he was to testify before Congress, was shot and

1222
01:32:34,199 --> 01:32:44,560
killed murdered. This encouraged me to do some more checking

1223
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:49,239
in some of these national terrorist acts that have taken

1224
01:32:49,279 --> 01:32:52,680
place and other cover ups in the United States. I

1225
01:32:52,800 --> 01:33:00,680
interviewed the naval intelligence officer who on December fourth, nineteen

1226
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:08,760
forty one, received information that the Japanese were going to

1227
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:13,119
bomb Pearl Harbor. We had broken the secret code of

1228
01:33:13,159 --> 01:33:18,960
the Japanese, he told me personally. On December the fourth.

1229
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:23,000
He gave it to his superiors. They passed it up

1230
01:33:23,039 --> 01:33:28,880
the line. After Pearl Harbor, he was subpoened and testified

1231
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:33,439
for Congress. His boss called him in said, don't worry

1232
01:33:33,439 --> 01:33:36,800
about it. Don't respond to this opoenion. Someday you'll know why.

1233
01:33:37,359 --> 01:33:42,199
He never did testify for Congress, and he recently passed

1234
01:33:42,199 --> 01:33:45,720
on by the way, So we have not only a

1235
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:48,199
cover up in these other areas, but looking at the

1236
01:33:48,279 --> 01:33:56,039
national picture Pearl Harbor and look at Waco. The military

1237
01:33:56,560 --> 01:34:01,359
was involved in destroying and un and killing and also

1238
01:34:01,399 --> 01:34:05,760
the FBI women and children. In Waco. They used tanks,

1239
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:10,319
military tanks in violation of Posse commatatis, which is a

1240
01:34:10,399 --> 01:34:13,640
law that says in military cannot be used to enforce

1241
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:19,560
the civilian population. They got away with it. There's an

1242
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:23,199
interesting story. I did some research on Waco. As I've

1243
01:34:23,239 --> 01:34:25,880
told you, I've done a lot of research, and I've

1244
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:28,760
in many instances, I've not only been there, I've done

1245
01:34:28,760 --> 01:34:32,399
that and I've been on the scene. I've spent most

1246
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:37,359
of my retirement money investigating these matters, including Oklahoma City,

1247
01:34:37,359 --> 01:34:38,880
and I've going to that in just a minute, nine

1248
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:45,000
to one one and so forth. But in Waco, there

1249
01:34:45,039 --> 01:34:49,880
were four BTF agents who were shot and killed. Some

1250
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:55,239
of the Branch Davidians were tried, senced for these quote murders,

1251
01:34:56,680 --> 01:35:01,720
and are serving prison terms today, probably for life. In

1252
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:07,800
researching the four BATF agents who were shot, I learned

1253
01:35:09,199 --> 01:35:13,439
every one of them was shot in the head. Now,

1254
01:35:13,479 --> 01:35:16,119
for those of you who have been in the military,

1255
01:35:17,279 --> 01:35:21,640
that's a sniper shot, no question about it. One of me,

1256
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:25,479
the bullet projector of the bullet was from above, down

1257
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:31,079
through his lip and into his body, probably from a helicopter.

1258
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:37,119
It's interesting to note that these four men BATF agents

1259
01:35:38,239 --> 01:35:45,840
at one time were all bodyguards for former President Bill Clinton. Wait,

1260
01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:52,720
that was Waco. Ruby Rich Randy Weaver was set up

1261
01:35:53,960 --> 01:36:00,079
by a BATF Bureauacal Tobacco Farm's informant. He bought a

1262
01:36:00,119 --> 01:36:02,720
shotgun that was about a quarter of an inch too

1263
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:09,199
short by law. They arrested him and served him with

1264
01:36:10,199 --> 01:36:14,159
a warrant. He refused to appear before the courts, and

1265
01:36:14,199 --> 01:36:17,720
they sent an army after him. Or are you chief?

1266
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:22,079
The FBI sharpshooter shot and killed his wife while she

1267
01:36:22,159 --> 01:36:25,319
was standing in the doorway. He used to brag about

1268
01:36:25,479 --> 01:36:29,600
what a great shot he was. Another instance where they

1269
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:34,079
tried to railroad, good loyal American who who fell in

1270
01:36:34,159 --> 01:36:39,279
the trap? And then we have the nineteen ninety three

1271
01:36:39,560 --> 01:36:42,720
continued with the great conspiracy. I call this a great conspiracy,

1272
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:46,439
and that's what it is. Car bombing of the World

1273
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:52,239
Trade Center. I have a copy of the New York Times,

1274
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:57,199
October twenty eighth, nineteen ninety three, and in the article

1275
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:03,000
this was reporting from the trial to place. An FBI

1276
01:37:03,039 --> 01:37:09,720
informant named So, who was in among the terrorists, testified

1277
01:37:11,319 --> 01:37:14,319
that he was commissioned by the terrorists to put the

1278
01:37:14,359 --> 01:37:17,960
bomb together, the car bomb together to bomb the World

1279
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:25,760
Trade Center in February nineteen ninety three. And fortunately for him,

1280
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:32,880
when he met with the terrorists, he wore mike so

1281
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:36,600
he could record every word that was said. Unknown to

1282
01:37:36,640 --> 01:37:39,119
the FBI, when he met with the FBI. He also

1283
01:37:39,319 --> 01:37:41,600
when he met with the FBI, he also wore a BodyMark.

1284
01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:45,199
That was probably what kept him from being set up

1285
01:37:45,199 --> 01:37:50,520
and framed and sent to prison. This is actually in

1286
01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:54,560
this newspaper article. He went to his FBI superiors says,

1287
01:37:54,720 --> 01:38:00,840
I've been commissioned to put the bomb together. We're going

1288
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:03,600
to use the bomb, aren't we? And he was told

1289
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:06,720
by his FBI superiors, no, we're going to use a

1290
01:38:06,760 --> 01:38:14,079
real bomb. Now. I don't understand why Congress and Senate

1291
01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:19,239
investigators and and our leaders in Washington, DC are not

1292
01:38:19,560 --> 01:38:23,239
jumping up and down over that situation. The FBI now

1293
01:38:23,239 --> 01:38:28,279
only new in advance of the car bombing, they furnished

1294
01:38:28,319 --> 01:38:31,000
the ingredients for the bomb. Why doesn't somebody take some

1295
01:38:31,079 --> 01:38:36,479
action in that area. Why doesn't somebody investigate this international

1296
01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:41,399
child kidnapping ring being operated by the CIA. Why are

1297
01:38:41,439 --> 01:38:47,920
these congressmen voting on bills like the Patriot Act which

1298
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:51,119
takes away many of our constitutions rights and civil liberties

1299
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:58,159
in the best interests of quote, protection for our country

1300
01:38:58,319 --> 01:39:02,520
and protection from the terrace. Let me tell you something,

1301
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:06,439
ladies and gentlemen, there are people in our government, a

1302
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:11,359
rogue outfit whatever. I'm not sure who are actually behind

1303
01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:16,640
these terrorist acts. And the reason they're behind the terrorist

1304
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:23,079
acts is so they can pass bills like the Patriot Act.

1305
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:26,640
And the reason the Congressmen and the Senators vote for

1306
01:39:26,680 --> 01:39:31,560
these stupid bills, stupid by our terms and our definition,

1307
01:39:32,279 --> 01:39:34,159
is because they've been many of them have been set

1308
01:39:34,239 --> 01:39:39,880
up and framed through sex and drugs. So then we

1309
01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:44,640
have Oklahoma City. In nineteen ninety five, I personally made

1310
01:39:44,640 --> 01:39:51,079
two trips to Oklahoma City. I investigated Oklahoma City because

1311
01:39:51,119 --> 01:39:59,079
of my report. The defense attorney for Timothy O. McVeigh

1312
01:40:00,600 --> 01:40:03,880
two of his investigators to interview me. I spent four

1313
01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:09,279
hours with them. Actually, I got a lot of information

1314
01:40:09,359 --> 01:40:13,000
out of them. For example, they told me that they

1315
01:40:13,039 --> 01:40:19,319
were allowed to tour the remains of the Murror Building

1316
01:40:19,319 --> 01:40:23,039
in Oklahoma City in the presence of a US marshal,

1317
01:40:23,119 --> 01:40:25,800
but they were not allowed under any circumstances to take

1318
01:40:26,279 --> 01:40:31,239
soil samples or to pick up any evidence for examination.

1319
01:40:33,119 --> 01:40:37,279
Stephen Jones was their turning. I heard that they were

1320
01:40:37,279 --> 01:40:42,279
going to tear down the building. Now you can trace

1321
01:40:42,439 --> 01:40:47,680
bombs through what they call the taggets, the chemicals. When

1322
01:40:47,680 --> 01:40:51,640
I heard this, I called John DeCamp. I said, John,

1323
01:40:51,680 --> 01:40:56,840
we've got to prevent that building from coming down. And

1324
01:40:56,920 --> 01:41:01,479
I actually called an outfit in Chicago, the Pat Kennedy Group,

1325
01:41:02,159 --> 01:41:09,079
who were specialists in examining the evidence of this type.

1326
01:41:09,600 --> 01:41:16,600
And John called mcveigh's attorney, Jones, and because John had

1327
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:19,760
a client he was represented who was involved in the case,

1328
01:41:20,319 --> 01:41:24,000
Jones said, I'll handle the paper, we'll have a hearing.

1329
01:41:25,159 --> 01:41:30,000
We will prevent that building from coming down. The next

1330
01:41:30,039 --> 01:41:35,000
thing we heard the building was coming down. John called Jones,

1331
01:41:35,479 --> 01:41:39,039
what's going on? And he had no good answer for it.

1332
01:41:40,479 --> 01:41:44,880
That was evidence. I've been at many a crime scene

1333
01:41:45,079 --> 01:41:48,840
and it is critical that the evidence be preserved. That

1334
01:41:49,199 --> 01:41:53,960
was a huge cover of McVeigh wrote a letter to

1335
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:58,359
his sister. McVeigh was in Special Forces. The government says,

1336
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:02,479
military says, oh no, he flunked out. He didn't flunk out.

1337
01:42:02,560 --> 01:42:06,119
He was recruited out of Special Forces, according to him,

1338
01:42:06,119 --> 01:42:09,000
a letter he wrote to his sister to be trained

1339
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:16,840
to be a CIA assassin and also to work for

1340
01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:22,079
the CIA International Drug Operation, both against the competition and

1341
01:42:22,239 --> 01:42:31,000
for the CIA pro drug people. McVeigh was, in my opinion,

1342
01:42:31,159 --> 01:42:36,600
m chaultra mind control victim. He was visited in prison

1343
01:42:36,840 --> 01:42:41,920
in Oklahoma and in Colorado by doctor Jolly West. This

1344
01:42:42,079 --> 01:42:45,000
was secret, by the way, I happened to find out

1345
01:42:45,119 --> 01:42:47,600
because I made some phone calls to the right people.

1346
01:42:49,039 --> 01:42:51,560
Jolly West was one of the foremost leaders, along with

1347
01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:57,520
Sidney Gottlieb and the CIA's MK Ultra mind control operation.

1348
01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:03,239
Why would somebody like Jolly westco interview McVeigh not only

1349
01:43:03,279 --> 01:43:07,479
in Oklahoma but also in Colorado during the trial because

1350
01:43:07,520 --> 01:43:11,560
he was a mind control victim himself. At one time,

1351
01:43:12,680 --> 01:43:14,479
it was reported, I think in the US News and

1352
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:20,079
Will report that McVeigh had a microchip in his buttocks.

1353
01:43:21,159 --> 01:43:26,079
Our military reportedly had been using microchips to keep track

1354
01:43:26,640 --> 01:43:35,680
of their soldiers. The bomb in the truck allegedly was

1355
01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:39,039
a fertilizer bomb. The government first announced that it was

1356
01:43:39,079 --> 01:43:41,239
a fifteen hundred pound bomb, and then a twenty five

1357
01:43:41,279 --> 01:43:43,680
hundred pound bomb, and I think it ended up being

1358
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:48,479
forty eight hundred pounds. That bomb that was in the

1359
01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:53,439
truck destroyed half the building. A forty eight hundred pound

1360
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:59,159
fertilizer bomb ammonia nitrate fertilizer bomb dissipates and did not

1361
01:43:59,319 --> 01:44:03,640
have the PENTI The possibility of destroying that much of

1362
01:44:03,680 --> 01:44:08,199
the building. After the Oklahoma City bomb went off, I

1363
01:44:08,199 --> 01:44:11,039
had a call from a friend of mine, Michael Reconnaisseuto.

1364
01:44:12,239 --> 01:44:14,039
For those of you who are making notes, looked up

1365
01:44:14,039 --> 01:44:22,279
in the internet, ri Co Nsciuto Michael Reconnaisseudo. I've been

1366
01:44:22,479 --> 01:44:25,640
working with Michael since the early nineteen eighty eighty two.

1367
01:44:25,640 --> 01:44:28,199
That's when I first met him. He was a CIA

1368
01:44:29,359 --> 01:44:34,720
agent operative for some two decades. He was also an

1369
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:38,880
FBI in format At one time. His father owned the

1370
01:44:38,920 --> 01:44:46,840
Hercules Manufacturing Silicone Valley, California. Hercules Manufacturing developed what is

1371
01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:52,640
known as the electro Hydrodynamic Gaseous Fuel device, which is

1372
01:44:52,720 --> 01:45:00,640
a highly classified bomb. The bomb was actually manufactured by

1373
01:45:00,680 --> 01:45:05,680
dinnand o'bill out of Salt Lake City. Now, Michael the meantime,

1374
01:45:05,800 --> 01:45:08,399
is in jail now right today. In fact, I talked

1375
01:45:08,399 --> 01:45:14,119
to him yesterday because he started to talk before the

1376
01:45:14,159 --> 01:45:20,680
Books Committee about a very interesting case involving the Promised Software.

1377
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:26,279
The promised software was in a computer operation that developed

1378
01:45:26,279 --> 01:45:30,239
all kinds of intelligence information on you and I and

1379
01:45:30,319 --> 01:45:37,119
every citizen in America. The Department of Justice leased it

1380
01:45:37,159 --> 01:45:38,680
for two years. At the end of two years, they

1381
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:41,760
refused to pay Bill and Nancy Hamilton the ten million

1382
01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:45,439
dollars they owed him. Then the Department of Justice, through

1383
01:45:45,439 --> 01:45:50,039
Earl Bryan Best, president of the United Press International, took

1384
01:45:50,119 --> 01:45:55,000
that computer and sold it around the world, so that

1385
01:45:55,199 --> 01:46:04,960
to the French, to the English, Israelis, Canadians, unknown excuse me,

1386
01:46:05,039 --> 01:46:08,399
unknown to these foreign countries, the officials in these foreign countries.

1387
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:12,720
There was a trapdoor in the computer. Very clever HU.

1388
01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:17,680
A trapdoor secretly allowed US, the US government, to retrieve

1389
01:46:17,680 --> 01:46:24,079
all the information they developed. Michael Raconnoisseur was the CIAgent

1390
01:46:24,119 --> 01:46:28,399
who developed the trap door in the promised software computer.

1391
01:46:30,479 --> 01:46:34,319
And when Congress started to investigate it in the late

1392
01:46:34,439 --> 01:46:38,960
nineteen eighties, they called on Michael and we want you

1393
01:46:39,039 --> 01:46:43,000
to testify. Michael received a threatening phone call two weeks

1394
01:46:43,039 --> 01:46:45,479
before he was to testify. He claimed from a fellow

1395
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:50,079
name VITNICKX Peter Vitnix, US Department of Justice. If you testify,

1396
01:46:50,119 --> 01:46:54,920
you'll be sorry. Michael testified anyway. A few weeks later

1397
01:46:54,960 --> 01:46:57,840
was arrested for drugs is now serving a thirty year

1398
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:05,319
prison sentence because he dared to expose these nefarious activities

1399
01:47:05,359 --> 01:47:09,560
by this rogue criminal enterprise operating within the confines of

1400
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:13,079
the US government. I got off little on I gave

1401
01:47:13,079 --> 01:47:16,840
you a little background on Michael going back to Oklahoma City. Now,

1402
01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:20,119
I want you to understand who Michael is. He's not

1403
01:47:20,239 --> 01:47:23,960
some guy walking down the street with a grocer basket

1404
01:47:23,960 --> 01:47:28,520
looking for a recycling center. Okay, he has credibility. Now,

1405
01:47:28,560 --> 01:47:31,399
Michael called me right after the Oklahoma City bomb went

1406
01:47:31,439 --> 01:47:34,720
off and he said, ted, he called from prison, By

1407
01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:39,880
the way, that's my bomb, meaning that Hercules developed him.

1408
01:47:40,920 --> 01:47:45,399
That was not a pneumonia nitrate bomb. Now, when that

1409
01:47:45,439 --> 01:47:49,319
bomb was tested in nineteen eighty two, I happened to

1410
01:47:49,319 --> 01:47:52,119
be with a group of intelligence agents in Palm Springs

1411
01:47:52,119 --> 01:47:54,760
waiting for the results of that test. It was tested

1412
01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:59,840
in every fifty one. It was underestimated because the power

1413
01:48:00,479 --> 01:48:03,199
it was so powerful that two of the technicians die.

1414
01:48:03,239 --> 01:48:08,279
They underestimated the strength of it. I'll call a barometric bomb.

1415
01:48:08,560 --> 01:48:12,279
This barometric bomb, according to Michael, was what was in

1416
01:48:12,319 --> 01:48:15,399
the car, not a fertilizer bomb. I have an Oklahoma

1417
01:48:15,399 --> 01:48:18,319
City report on that. So what did I do as

1418
01:48:18,319 --> 01:48:24,760
an investigator? Well, I went to the piccaninny Arsenal in

1419
01:48:24,800 --> 01:48:29,720
New Jersey, and I gave him the contract number which

1420
01:48:29,760 --> 01:48:33,800
I obtained through a science magazine. One of my associates

1421
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:36,840
actually did the research on that, and I gave the

1422
01:48:36,840 --> 01:48:41,800
pic Tenny Arsenal contract number. This is public available to

1423
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:44,199
the public, by the way, and the pic co Tenny

1424
01:48:44,279 --> 01:48:46,560
Arsenal came back and said there's no such contractor, even

1425
01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:48,800
though I had the contractman. But by the way, that's

1426
01:48:48,840 --> 01:48:54,319
documented in my report. And I went to Dinahobell, who

1427
01:48:54,319 --> 01:48:58,319
I knew manufactured it, and they didn't even bother to respond.

1428
01:48:58,479 --> 01:49:01,800
It's interesting to note that a Dina Nobel expert witness

1429
01:49:02,840 --> 01:49:09,239
testified at the grand jury when they indicted McVeigh in

1430
01:49:09,279 --> 01:49:16,239
September of nineteen ninety five, some five or six months

1431
01:49:16,319 --> 01:49:21,760
after the nineteenth of April nineteen ninety five, Oklahoma City.

1432
01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:29,560
In September, there was a I lost my trend that

1433
01:49:29,600 --> 01:49:33,359
thought there for a minute. Oh, there was an article

1434
01:49:34,319 --> 01:49:39,399
in Fireman's Magazine. It was written by the editor of

1435
01:49:39,479 --> 01:49:43,520
Fireman's Magazine. The information was obtained from the Oklahoma City

1436
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:48,680
Fire Department, and in that article, again that's in my report.

1437
01:49:48,760 --> 01:49:55,119
In that article it states that four unexploded devices were

1438
01:49:55,159 --> 01:49:58,880
taken out of the building when people were in the

1439
01:49:58,880 --> 01:50:04,680
building after the bomb dying. They discontinued the rescue efforts

1440
01:50:04,680 --> 01:50:08,159
for some five hours while they carried out a bunch

1441
01:50:08,199 --> 01:50:14,319
of government files, men in blue suits of some sort sweatsuits.

1442
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:24,720
So what I'm telling you is Oklahoma City was perpetrated

1443
01:50:24,800 --> 01:50:33,000
by certainly people other than McVeigh and Nichols and now

1444
01:50:33,479 --> 01:50:36,239
Roger Moore. If you read the paper recently, the gun

1445
01:50:36,279 --> 01:50:39,039
dealer who claims that he was robbed of his gun's

1446
01:50:39,039 --> 01:50:41,399
in Arkansas and that that money was used to finance

1447
01:50:41,439 --> 01:50:45,199
Oklahoma City bombing. Roger Moore has been accused by Terry

1448
01:50:45,279 --> 01:50:52,199
Nichols of being involved in it. Roger Moore denies it.

1449
01:50:52,840 --> 01:50:56,920
Roger Moore at the time the Oaklhoma City bombing was

1450
01:50:56,920 --> 01:51:02,560
an f behind formant. I had an insight investigator in

1451
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:07,680
Oklahoma City tell me that there were at least eleven

1452
01:51:07,880 --> 01:51:15,560
other individuals involved in Oklahoma City, Okay. That brings us up.

1453
01:51:15,560 --> 01:51:20,000
We've gone through Pearl Harbor, Waco, Ruby Ridge carbombed ninety three,

1454
01:51:20,039 --> 01:51:23,479
Oklahoma City ninety five. That brings us up to nine

1455
01:51:23,560 --> 01:51:30,079
one one. As I said, Michael's in prison, I'm his

1456
01:51:30,239 --> 01:51:33,960
quote investigator of record, which means I'm like an attorney.

1457
01:51:34,680 --> 01:51:36,960
I should have access to him on a regular basis.

1458
01:51:38,039 --> 01:51:42,399
I represent this man for a year prior to nine

1459
01:51:42,439 --> 01:51:46,399
one one, actually a year and a half. I tried

1460
01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:50,119
to get in and see Michael. He was in prison

1461
01:51:50,159 --> 01:51:55,760
in northern Pennsylvania. I was in the Philadelphia area. The

1462
01:51:55,840 --> 01:51:57,920
Bureau of Prisons would not allow me to see him.

1463
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:04,359
Finally I was able to talk to Michael. In January

1464
01:52:04,439 --> 01:52:08,119
two thousand and three. I flew to the East Coast

1465
01:52:09,199 --> 01:52:14,000
spent three days with him. Michael told me that he

1466
01:52:14,119 --> 01:52:19,960
had developed information from among his contacts in advance of

1467
01:52:20,159 --> 01:52:23,720
nine to one one that they were going involved in

1468
01:52:24,720 --> 01:52:30,359
using missiles, airplane missiles, and they were going involved in skyjackings,

1469
01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:37,119
they were training Arab terras. And also he knew the

1470
01:52:37,159 --> 01:52:41,039
identity of the person in the United States, an Arab

1471
01:52:42,159 --> 01:52:45,479
who lived in Patterson, New Jersey, who was the leader

1472
01:52:46,960 --> 01:52:53,119
of terrorist activity by the Arabs in this country. Now

1473
01:52:55,399 --> 01:52:59,000
Michael had this information, because you're saying, how can Michael

1474
01:52:59,039 --> 01:53:03,680
develop this information being in prison, Because I met with

1475
01:53:03,920 --> 01:53:08,199
Osama van Laden, along with Michael, and along with the

1476
01:53:08,199 --> 01:53:13,439
State Department representative in the spring of nineteen eighty six.

1477
01:53:13,560 --> 01:53:17,680
At that time, I was contacted by former top Reagan

1478
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:21,079
Ronnie Reagan official, who said, can we help the Afghan rebels?

1479
01:53:21,119 --> 01:53:24,760
They were our friends in and I called Michael. I

1480
01:53:24,800 --> 01:53:26,680
said what do you think and he said, let's meet.

1481
01:53:26,840 --> 01:53:30,239
So there was a fourth fellow there. We didn't know

1482
01:53:30,279 --> 01:53:32,239
at the time. It was Osama Vian lad has actually

1483
01:53:32,319 --> 01:53:36,399
used the name tim Osmon to travel under Turkish passport.

1484
01:53:37,239 --> 01:53:39,880
But because of Michael, I passed the ball to him.

1485
01:53:39,920 --> 01:53:42,479
I just arranged for the meeting and went on. But

1486
01:53:42,560 --> 01:53:45,199
Michael traveled all over the world putting this package together,

1487
01:53:46,399 --> 01:53:50,199
furnished the Afghan rebels with the surfaced air missiles that

1488
01:53:50,640 --> 01:53:55,199
defeated the Soviets, really shot down their helicopters. As a

1489
01:53:55,199 --> 01:53:59,279
result of this, Michael developed sources inside the Arab world,

1490
01:54:00,359 --> 01:54:07,239
and that's how Michael knew in advance about nine one one.

1491
01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:14,199
Michael told the FBI on March the twentieth, two thousand

1492
01:54:14,199 --> 01:54:20,600
and one about this plan to use Skyjack aeroplanes and

1493
01:54:20,760 --> 01:54:26,760
use them as missiles. He also furnished to the FBI

1494
01:54:27,520 --> 01:54:31,079
one of his sources, one of his confidential sources inside

1495
01:54:31,119 --> 01:54:37,840
the Arab group. The FBI interviewed him, threatened him with prosecution,

1496
01:54:38,239 --> 01:54:42,720
and deported him. That man, along with his family had disappeared.

1497
01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:47,840
We think that they're dead. The FBI refuse, absolutely refused

1498
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:54,159
to look into this situation. More shocking is that Michael

1499
01:54:54,279 --> 01:55:02,439
had the names of the people who were obtaining the

1500
01:55:02,520 --> 01:55:04,920
false names of the people the Arabs who were obtaining

1501
01:55:04,920 --> 01:55:08,319
false passports had their names. He had the source who

1502
01:55:08,319 --> 01:55:13,000
could furnish them that information. He told fbij Keith Coutrie

1503
01:55:13,199 --> 01:55:16,880
March the twentieth, nineteen ninety, two thousand and one. Excuse me,

1504
01:55:17,840 --> 01:55:22,640
he told, Coutrie, says, I'll give you these names, the

1505
01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:26,239
name of this person who was coordinating the whole project

1506
01:55:26,439 --> 01:55:30,479
for the Arabs, providing I be given immunity and he'd

1507
01:55:30,479 --> 01:55:35,840
be given immunity. Mister Coutrie, in spite of the fact

1508
01:55:35,920 --> 01:55:38,640
he was armed with this information six months prior to

1509
01:55:38,720 --> 01:55:43,960
nine to one one, came back two days after nine

1510
01:55:44,079 --> 01:55:48,479
one one on the thirteenth and saw Michael in prison again,

1511
01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:58,039
accused Michael of be an anti government NIFBI, being a

1512
01:55:58,079 --> 01:56:05,520
publicity seeker and sold forth being disloyal, and so Michael

1513
01:56:05,760 --> 01:56:09,119
of course didn't have much to say after that. Michaels

1514
01:56:09,119 --> 01:56:13,039
still in prison. As I said, but we had this information.

1515
01:56:13,079 --> 01:56:18,760
The FBI, this information did nothing with it. Coutry admitted

1516
01:56:18,880 --> 01:56:23,840
on March September the thirteenth, admitted that the FBI did

1517
01:56:23,880 --> 01:56:30,039
nothing with it. So after I visited Michael excuse me,

1518
01:56:31,039 --> 01:56:34,239
two thousand and three, I felt it was important that

1519
01:56:34,319 --> 01:56:36,960
I confirmed that the FBI did meet with him. The

1520
01:56:37,000 --> 01:56:41,000
Bureau Prisons would not furnish Michael with the visitor's list

1521
01:56:41,119 --> 01:56:46,279
to confirm it, and so I started writing letters to

1522
01:56:46,359 --> 01:56:51,479
the FBI through Senator George Allen, Oh, thank you, thank you,

1523
01:56:53,439 --> 01:56:56,079
and to confirm that he did in fact meet with him.

1524
01:56:56,079 --> 01:56:58,640
I wanted to document it. I also asked for the

1525
01:56:58,680 --> 01:57:01,880
identity of the other agent who with the agent Kutrie

1526
01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:03,760
and I had a terrible time. It took me a

1527
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:08,159
year and a half writing letters for the FBI to

1528
01:57:08,199 --> 01:57:10,520
get them to admit that they'd interviewed Michael on marsh

1529
01:57:10,520 --> 01:57:12,680
A twenty two thousand and one. I finally did have

1530
01:57:12,720 --> 01:57:17,760
that information. That information is available again in one of

1531
01:57:17,760 --> 01:57:21,560
my reports, my terrorism report that I have in the bag.

1532
01:57:23,560 --> 01:57:27,880
So that basically brings me up to the present time.

1533
01:57:28,960 --> 01:57:33,439
I think my time is up, but I feel compelled.

1534
01:57:34,680 --> 01:57:37,159
As a former FBI agent, I had all this training,

1535
01:57:38,920 --> 01:57:42,439
and I feel compelled to do everything I can to

1536
01:57:42,560 --> 01:57:47,239
educate as many fellow Americans as I can as to

1537
01:57:47,279 --> 01:57:53,279
what's going on behind the scenes. We have being operated

1538
01:57:53,319 --> 01:58:00,560
and orchestrated primarily by US military intelligence covert Criminal Prize

1539
01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:06,199
involving the FBI and the CIA acting in this country today.

1540
01:58:06,239 --> 01:58:10,399
It's being covered up right from the beginning. They're using

1541
01:58:10,520 --> 01:58:14,840
FBI informants. They've set up and framed people. By the way,

1542
01:58:14,840 --> 01:58:16,680
they've tried to frame me on a drug deal back

1543
01:58:16,720 --> 01:58:21,720
in nineteen eighty four and didn't work. The girl that

1544
01:58:21,800 --> 01:58:25,279
they used to try to frame me contacted me said

1545
01:58:25,279 --> 01:58:28,359
I need to meet with you. We met, she told

1546
01:58:28,399 --> 01:58:30,560
me the whole story. I took a signed statement from her.

1547
01:58:30,600 --> 01:58:34,439
Her name was Pam Fossa, and I said to Pam,

1548
01:58:34,479 --> 01:58:38,720
I said, Pam, you're working for these people, the DEA

1549
01:58:38,800 --> 01:58:41,560
and the FBI and Modesto. By the way, she was

1550
01:58:41,600 --> 01:58:44,760
making phone calls to me, I said, you're working with

1551
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:47,720
these people trying to set me up. Why have you?

1552
01:58:47,760 --> 01:58:49,680
And of course in the phone calls, she kept sitting

1553
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:52,880
trying to get me to make admissions that had knowledge

1554
01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:54,880
of a felony, and I wouldn't. I said, I don't

1555
01:58:54,920 --> 01:58:57,560
have any knowledge of that or it was involved in

1556
01:58:57,600 --> 01:59:03,800
a felony. Actually said, Pam, Look, you were working with

1557
01:59:03,800 --> 01:59:06,439
these people for six months. They gave you two thousand dollars,

1558
01:59:07,399 --> 01:59:10,520
You had the run of the FBI office, you had

1559
01:59:10,520 --> 01:59:15,079
your own coffee cup. Why did you come to me

1560
01:59:15,159 --> 01:59:19,199
and tell me this now? And I'd helped her give

1561
01:59:19,199 --> 01:59:21,359
her a little advice about her fourteen year old son

1562
01:59:22,039 --> 01:59:24,079
in the interim, you know, talking back and forth as

1563
01:59:24,079 --> 01:59:27,079
any individual would do who might be able to help,

1564
01:59:28,079 --> 01:59:31,720
And she said, Ted, I woke up the other morning

1565
01:59:32,840 --> 01:59:34,720
and I realized you're the only honest son of a

1566
01:59:34,760 --> 01:59:38,000
bitch I've talked to in six months. Those were her

1567
01:59:38,239 --> 01:59:42,119
exact words. The FBI, I only tried to set me

1568
01:59:42,199 --> 01:59:46,800
up on a drug deal. They've also I've also been

1569
01:59:46,840 --> 01:59:51,479
the victim of four separate investigations. They tried to set

1570
01:59:51,560 --> 01:59:54,079
me up on a fraud case in Denver, in Dallas,

1571
01:59:55,720 --> 02:00:00,279
and most recently, very frankly, I've been under survey. It's

1572
02:00:00,319 --> 02:00:06,279
heavy surveillance, as I've had illegal entries into my car,

1573
02:00:06,359 --> 02:00:13,119
into my apartment. There's been attempts to gas me within

1574
02:00:13,159 --> 02:00:17,680
the last month, and I was able to anticipate it

1575
02:00:17,840 --> 02:00:21,760
and avoid it. But they don't want people like me

1576
02:00:23,680 --> 02:00:28,439
out telling the truth, and that's what I'm doing and

1577
02:00:28,479 --> 02:00:31,720
I will not stop. I will continue to do so

1578
02:00:31,800 --> 02:00:35,760
in the future. So that's basically it. I brought you

1579
02:00:35,800 --> 02:00:39,760
from seventeen seventy six to the present time, we went

1580
02:00:39,800 --> 02:00:44,199
through one conspiracy after another. Brian Gimble was interviewing Jim Nichols,

1581
02:00:44,439 --> 02:00:50,800
Terry Nichols's brother, on National TV after the Oklahoma City bombing,

1582
02:00:50,840 --> 02:00:53,239
by the way, and I had given Jim Nichols my

1583
02:00:53,239 --> 02:00:58,600
Oklahoma City bombing report, and Jim said to Brian Gumble,

1584
02:00:58,640 --> 02:01:02,159
He says, have you did at Ted Gunnerson's Oklahoma City report?

1585
02:01:02,960 --> 02:01:08,520
And Gumba says, oh, Ted Gunnerson's a conspiracy theorist. I

1586
02:01:08,560 --> 02:01:11,359
want you to know I'm not. I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

1587
02:01:12,199 --> 02:01:18,399
I'm a conspiracy realist. It is there. All you have

1588
02:01:18,479 --> 02:01:23,800
to do is get your own website, get your own Internet,

1589
02:01:24,640 --> 02:01:26,760
go out. There's a lot of disinformation out there, but

1590
02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:30,039
you can pick out what's really solid and what's really truthful.

1591
02:01:31,880 --> 02:01:34,960
And I have twenty five years of researcher on that

1592
02:01:35,000 --> 02:01:38,359
back table back there, And if you buy any my reports,

1593
02:01:39,760 --> 02:01:44,960
or this video tape or any of my material, I

1594
02:01:45,159 --> 02:01:48,680
want you to make a promise that you will make

1595
02:01:48,880 --> 02:01:54,800
copies and distribute it foreign mind. We need to wake

1596
02:01:54,920 --> 02:01:59,880
up America right now. Let me emphasize again, I'm not

1597
02:02:00,199 --> 02:02:03,359
anti American. I don't believe in violence. I believe in

1598
02:02:03,840 --> 02:02:08,359
change through legal means. But we need to wake up

1599
02:02:08,399 --> 02:02:14,600
an apathetic, sleeping society that is active in America today.

1600
02:02:15,560 --> 02:02:20,680
And this not only ties into a mchaotist CIA, that

1601
02:02:20,800 --> 02:02:27,760
ties into Satanism. There are approximately four million practicing Satanists

1602
02:02:27,760 --> 02:02:31,399
in America today involved in the Nebraska case. And I

1603
02:02:31,560 --> 02:02:34,760
go on about Satanic cults for another hour, but I

1604
02:02:34,760 --> 02:02:37,479
think my time is almost up. I might mention that,

1605
02:02:37,560 --> 02:02:42,359
speaking of Satanism, there are between fifty and sixty thousand

1606
02:02:42,399 --> 02:02:47,079
human sacrifices, according to three different sources, in this country

1607
02:02:47,119 --> 02:02:54,159
every year. The Satanic cults operate secretly. The Satanic cults are,

1608
02:02:54,439 --> 02:02:59,560
along with our covert criminal enterprise within the government, serious

1609
02:02:59,560 --> 02:03:03,479
threat to our society. And I thank you very much.

1610
02:03:07,239 --> 02:03:09,600
Speaker 2: You're listening to the fact Hunter Radio Network.

1611
02:03:13,239 --> 02:03:13,920
Speaker 1: Just the facts, ma'am.