Speaker 1: John and I Firms. One of Wetherbe casts tells us
Speaker 1: today be mostly cloudy with scattered storms possible later this afternoon.
Speaker 1: They should be leaving the area around sixty m though
Speaker 1: seventy seven on high Today. It's going to be dry
Speaker 1: every night, down of sixty two, Partly cloudy tomorrow with
Speaker 1: a high of eighty four Thursday night, some storms are
Speaker 1: possible low of sixty eight and a high of eighty
Speaker 1: five on Friday, with another chance of rain sixty two degrees.
Speaker 1: Right now, let's hear from hereby traffic conditions from Chuck
Speaker 1: Ingram Chuck.
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Speaker 2: Northbound seventy five continues to run close to an extra
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes out of Florence into downtown, then slow again
Speaker 2: above seventy four to an accident at Town Street. Right
Speaker 2: hand side southbound seventy one breakwlights continue between Fieldsirdle and
Speaker 2: Red Bank. Northbound four seventy one is getting better into
Speaker 2: town coming up next the gang who's probably too humbled
Speaker 2: to admit it, but rumor has it. Our next guest
Speaker 2: gave MLB come Miss Manfred, a stern talking to which
Speaker 2: convinced him to take Pete Rose off the ineligible blist
Speaker 2: from the Hall of Faith.
Speaker 3: Thank you to the judge.
Speaker 2: Cincinnati loves you, Chuck Ingram on fifty five krc the
Speaker 2: talk station.
Speaker 1: Hey, thirty one five KRCD talk station on the heels
Speaker 1: of Congress of MESSI making this my favorite hour of
Speaker 1: radio whenever we get him. Back to back Judge Eddenapolitan
Speaker 1: and welcome back. And I guess most of Cincinnati is
Speaker 1: appreciative of your efforts to get Pete Rose.
Speaker 4: No, yeah, you know it's it's very funny. And Ingram
Speaker 4: couldn't possibly meil on this. And by the way, good morning,
Speaker 4: Brian's a pleasure to be here. I have been a
Speaker 4: fan of Pete Rose since I was a kid. I
Speaker 4: met him many times at Fox and I did talk
Speaker 4: to Rob Manfred real name MANFREDI to Rob Manfred about this.
Speaker 3: This is about five or six years ago, and he
Speaker 3: looked at me.
Speaker 4: He said, Ah, the time might come, Judge, the time
Speaker 4: might come, but I can't do anything about it now.
Speaker 4: Pete was still alive. I don't take any credit for it,
Speaker 4: but I take great joy.
Speaker 3: In it that the.
Speaker 4: Sport fans, not only in Cincinnati but everywhere and history
Speaker 4: will recognize his unparalleled achievements in baseball unparalleled. You know,
Speaker 4: it's interesting, greater than Demaggio. Now that my father in
Speaker 4: Heaven book will send a lightning bolt at me for
Speaker 4: saying this. But the greatest achievement in baseball Pete Rose
Speaker 4: and his number of.
Speaker 1: Hits unquestionable point. You cannot say he wasn't the greatest.
Speaker 1: It wasn't one of the absolute all time greats of
Speaker 1: baseball period in the story. The stats prove it out.
Speaker 1: I guess I struggle with this one. I always have
Speaker 1: because as a believer in the rules and in law,
Speaker 1: as you do, the cardinal rule of baseball is you
Speaker 1: don't bet on baseball. And he lied through his teeth
Speaker 1: for years and years insisting that he did not do it.
Speaker 3: When he did.
Speaker 1: I used to work for the defense attorney criminal defense
Speaker 1: attorney who represented the guy that ultimately blew the whistle
Speaker 1: on him, a guy that was placing bets on behalf
Speaker 1: of Pete Rose, who, as a law clerk, I knew
Speaker 1: advance of everybody that he was doing it, and he
Speaker 1: kept flying, and this whole concept of him lying year
Speaker 1: after year year, and then finally, man, yeah, I bet
Speaker 1: on baseball, but I didn't bet on the Reds. And finally, yeah,
Speaker 1: I bet on the Reds, but I never bet against him.
Speaker 1: That moving position in an effort to try to get
Speaker 1: himself off the permanently band list so he could get
Speaker 1: into the Baseball Hall of Fame, which isn't guaranteed even
Speaker 1: though he's been removed. But that to me was the
Speaker 1: sticking point. You knew the rule going in, you knew
Speaker 1: what happened to the Black Sox and what happened to
Speaker 1: those players, and yet you did it anyway.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 4: It's the Baseball Hall of Fame. It's not the College
Speaker 4: of Cardinals. We're not saying that only Mother Teresa can enter.
Speaker 3: The Hall of Fame.
Speaker 4: I know. Should they have taken the heavyweight championship away
Speaker 4: from Muhammad Ali because he dives the draft?
Speaker 3: In my opinion, of course not.
Speaker 1: Well, that isn't a cardinal rule of box though. I
Speaker 1: mean again, this was a this is a baseball rule.
Speaker 1: Since the Black Sox events back in the early nineteen
Speaker 1: hundreds when they threw the series. So you know, you knew.
Speaker 4: That's pretty that's pretty serious. But if crime is harmed,
Speaker 4: nobody was harmed by what Pete did.
Speaker 1: That I do not have an argument with. And I
Speaker 1: know I'm probably a minority in this town, most notably,
Speaker 1: but I've been on record year after year and I've
Speaker 1: gotten engaged with debates with people over it, So we
Speaker 1: don't need to dwell on it. You're happy. I'm many
Speaker 1: people in Cincinnati are extraordinarily happy, and that's aokay with me.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean I was.
Speaker 4: I was at Yankee Stadium when the Reds played the
Speaker 4: Yankees in the World Series.
Speaker 3: I don't remember what year this was.
Speaker 4: Pete Rose was playing third base Mickey Rivers, who was
Speaker 4: so fast he could get to first before anybody could
Speaker 4: throw the ball from third. Pete Rose picks up a
Speaker 4: little dribbler and shakes the ball at Mickey's face like,
Speaker 4: I'm so good, Mickey, I'm not even going to throw
Speaker 4: the ball until you're halfway to first from and he
Speaker 4: caught him out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some great stories and everybody. I remember the
Speaker 1: Big Red Machine like it was yesterday because that was
Speaker 1: the heyday of baseball here in the city of Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: But I must note they also removed from the permanently
Speaker 1: banned list all of the Black Sox players too, including
Speaker 1: Shoeless Jackson or whatever his name was.
Speaker 3: So I saw the Shoeless Joe from Hannibal.
Speaker 1: No, you know it, You know.
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 1: Pivoting over. As I always point out, I'm a lucky
Speaker 1: man for getting a copy of your column ahead of time.
Speaker 1: It comes out tonight at midnight. What if freedom is suspended?
Speaker 1: A lot of rhetorical questions built into the column, But
Speaker 1: I appreciate it because suspension of the riot of habeas
Speaker 1: corpus is an amazingly serious, serious thing. If you remove
Speaker 1: habeas corpus, we're all thrown to Franz Kafka's the trial.
Speaker 1: We could be held without even knowing why we are
Speaker 1: being held. And that is a profound injustice.
Speaker 3: Correct, It's a profound injustice.
Speaker 4: It's a violation of your natural right to fairness from
Speaker 4: the government, and it's an express violation of the Constitution.
Speaker 4: So habeas corpus, for those dwelling on the Latin, is
Speaker 4: the principle by which anyone detained by the government whether
Speaker 4: it's for spitting on the sidewalk or a mass murder,
Speaker 4: can require the party doing the detaining to bring you
Speaker 4: to court and justify the detention, so you know the
Speaker 4: charges against you, and so a judge is satisfied that
Speaker 4: there is it's a real charge, it's not fanciful, and
Speaker 4: there's serious evidence against you. Without the right to habeas corpus,
Speaker 4: we're back to the divine right of kings, who would
Speaker 4: lock up whoever they want, although even these British monarchs
Speaker 4: are recognized hadeus corpus because it's in Magna Carta which
Speaker 4: was signed in twelve fifteen. But without habeas corpus, we
Speaker 4: have that Franz Kafka situation where people can be arrested
Speaker 4: without trial and just sitting in a jail cell, not
Speaker 4: knowing what the charges are against them, no independent judge
Speaker 4: reviewing it. Who and under what circumstances can suspend.
Speaker 3: A price corpus well has.
Speaker 4: Been suspended three times by American presidents, and all three
Speaker 4: times the court said, wait a minute, only Congress can
Speaker 4: do it, and only Congress can do it when there's
Speaker 4: invasion or rebellion.
Speaker 3: That's in the Constitution itself.
Speaker 4: So When Lincoln did it, he was forced to have
Speaker 4: Congress authorize it. Then he tried to employ it in
Speaker 4: the North, where there was no invasion or rebellion.
Speaker 3: Then he was assassinated.
Speaker 4: Then the case made its way to the Supreme Court
Speaker 4: and they invalidated FDR used it to incarcerate Japanese Americans,
Speaker 4: in one of the lowest points in Supreme Court history.
Speaker 3: The court went along with it. Subsequent courts have reversed
Speaker 3: that ruling.
Speaker 4: A subsequent Congress condemned it and compensated all the Japanese
Speaker 4: America Muricans who were detained.
Speaker 3: George W. Bush attempted to do.
Speaker 4: It right after nine to eleven, saying we were invaded.
Speaker 4: Whereupon the lawyer's challenging this said, your honor, I was
Speaker 4: in Federal Court in Lower Manhattan on nine to twelve,
Speaker 4: the day after nine to eleven, so the courts are
Speaker 4: able to sit Therefore, there was no invasion or rebellion,
Speaker 4: and the Supreme Court invalidated it. This is very very
Speaker 4: dangerous talk in a very very dangerous area. If the
Speaker 4: White House thinks it can do this just to facilitate
Speaker 4: the removal of unlawfully present persons in the United.
Speaker 3: States, well, this will spread like wildfire.
Speaker 4: This will to transform the country from a democracy to
Speaker 4: a monarchy if the White House can pick and choose.
Speaker 4: Because they're saying they can pick and choose, they're saying
Speaker 4: that they're not going to suspend it for everybody, and
Speaker 4: they're saying they're only going to suspend it if they
Speaker 4: don't like the way judges rule. I mean, that is
Speaker 4: simply a reprehensible attitude which defies, defies the president's obligation
Speaker 4: to preserve, protect, and defund the Constitution.
Speaker 1: Well, it flies in the face of the purpose of
Speaker 1: being able to suspend Habeas corpus in the first instance.
Speaker 3: So, but I guess when you.
Speaker 4: Know, Okay, So Congress has defined invasion or rebellion as
Speaker 4: a state of affairs so calamitous that the courts can't sit.
Speaker 4: Which is why being in court the day after nine
Speaker 4: to eleven defeated George W.
Speaker 3: Bush's use of it.
Speaker 4: When FDR suspended Habeas corpus just for Japanese Americans just
Speaker 4: on the West coast there obviously it was.
Speaker 3: No invasion or rebellion.
Speaker 4: He said he feared an invasion or rebellion, and the
Speaker 4: court bought that nonsense.
Speaker 1: It was a very low point in America's history. And
Speaker 1: you know, if they can do it to the Japanese Americans.
Speaker 1: My father had a dear friend, a golfing buddy his
Speaker 1: who was a very small child, and he was put
Speaker 1: in an internment camp because he was of Japanese descent.
Speaker 1: He was born in America.
Speaker 4: These people were as American as Fdr, as American as
Speaker 4: apple Pie. Their ancestors came from Japan. It was one
Speaker 4: of the greatest acts of racism outside of slavery, in
Speaker 4: American history, and it was done by the hero of
Speaker 4: the Liberal Democrats, Franklin Donna Roosevelt.
Speaker 1: Well, and I think it boils down to this. If
Speaker 1: the person is is incarcerated, they have the habeas corpus
Speaker 1: right they go into court. The government should be able
Speaker 1: to present evidence on exactly why they got arrested. He's
Speaker 1: a criminal. We have the evidence. This is why we
Speaker 1: picked him up and locked him up.
Speaker 3: It's a very simple proceeding. It's taken so seriously. You know,
Speaker 3: we have this in New Jersey. If you're in the
Speaker 3: middle of.
Speaker 4: A trial, you stop the trial to review the habeas
Speaker 4: proceeding because you don't want a person to spend one
Speaker 4: minute more in jail, then it's.
Speaker 3: Justified under the law.
Speaker 4: You immediately address the habeast proceeding. Now not all judges
Speaker 4: do that, but most do, and nearly all will do
Speaker 4: it on the same day that.
Speaker 3: They receive the application.
Speaker 4: If the government knows that there's no habeas corpus, then
Speaker 4: it knows it doesn't.
Speaker 3: Need evidence in order to arrest. That can arrest whoever the.
Speaker 1: Hell it want was right, and that comes down to
Speaker 1: the There but for the grace of God go I,
Speaker 1: which is why I'm one hundred percent on your side
Speaker 1: on this one, no wavering whatsoever, you got evidence, show it.
Speaker 1: There's a reason for me to be picked up and
Speaker 1: locked up. Tell the judge exactly why. And if you
Speaker 1: can't do that, I shouldn't be in a cell, judge,
Speaker 1: Editor Politano, appreciate what you do.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: Thanks for the column in advance. I always enjoy reading it,
Speaker 1: and I always enjoy your conversations each and every week.
Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, right.
Speaker 3: Back at you, Brian go Pete rose into.
Speaker 1: The Hall of Fame, and I forgot to tell you,
Speaker 1: Congressman Thomas, And as he did tell me to tell you,
Speaker 1: he said, hello, So I'm want to get that out.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I love him.
Speaker 4: He is such a defender of the Constitution and very
Speaker 4: very few others in the Congress are is opposite number
Speaker 4: also from Kentucky, Senator Ranpaul comes to mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's going to be on the show later this week,
Speaker 1: so I'll look forward to having him on as well.
Speaker 3: To give you my best home time family.
Speaker 1: Friend, Judge Ennena Palatino until next Wednesday. Have a wonderful week,
Speaker 1: my friend. Back at you, Brian, Thank you, Thank you.
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