Speaker 1: He was addressing issues of who was superior in the
church Jews Gentiles, who was grafted in, who was grafted out,
and after discussing the relationship between the two and basically
saying that either of you can be grafted in or
grafted out based on your faith. There's only one tree,
there's only one sheepfold, only one branch, only one vine,
and that is the covenant the Church. There's not two covenants.
There's not separate covenants. All the covenants are one in
the person of Christ. And they come to their telos
at the First Advent, that is the inauguration of the
end of the age. The last days began the First Advent.
As the New Testament says over and over and over again,
there is a end of the world, a resurrection, and
so forth. But that is not the Kingdom. The kingdom
is identified as the Church, the New Testament Church. The
New Testament Church is not anybody who just believes. It
is a historic institutional reality that was set up in
the first century. It has a historical lineage based on
the type of lineage that the Israelites had in the
Old Testament. If you read numbers, for example, numbers twelve
or numbers eleven. We'll see this in a minute. There's
a succession and laying on of hands. That laying on
of hands with the promised blessing that you see in Genesis,
that you see with the Moses and the elders. That's
a type of the way that the New Israel would
be set up instructed, where Jesus breathes on the apostles,
commissions them at Pentecost, and then they lay hands on
their successors, as we see from Timothy's from Paul's letters
to Timothy, that passes on. Paul says, the gift to
the Holy Spirit, which is that succession, which is that episcopacy,
which is that priesthood after the Order of Melchis. Today
doesn't mean that every person in the church isn't also
a kind of priest, but there is a ministerial priesthood
that mirrors the three tier priesthood of the Old Testament,
the high priest, the priest, and the levite corresponding to
Christ and the church or corresponding to bishop, priest deacon
in the historic Church. And you'll notice that when Paul
talks about the Covenant promises, he says, receive one another
whether you're due or gentile. He's saying, receive you both
as Christ received us. Jesus has become a servant to
the circumcision, that is, to the Jews for the truth
of God. To confirm the covenant promise is made to
the fathers, all of those old covenant promises, the Fathers
and the Mosaic Covenant and the Ibramic Covenant. And we
know it's a brainment, especially because of circumcision, because Christ
was circumcised. When Jesus was circumcised in the Book of Luke,
that fulfills circumcision. Thus it is said, when he confirms
these promises, they're all confirmed. So there's not dual promises,
separate promises to gentiles, separate promises to some atheist socialist
nation state from nineteen forty eight. No, no, no, there's only
one covenant fulfilled in the one prophet, priest king of Israel,
who is the person of Christ. Thus, Paul says, the
gentiles would also glorify God. I will confess your name
amongst the gentiles and sing to your name. Rejoice, So
gentiles with his people. This is not an aschaeological reality.
Paul is saying in the Roman Church. In the Church
at Rome, Gentiles and Jews together worshiping the One Father
through the Son Christ in the Spirit. So you understand
that Romans fifteen is showing you clear as day that
his people is the Church, who does the root of
Jesse rule over the Gentiles, where in his kingdom the Church.
Paul is interpreting the passage in Isaiah to be a
present reality. This refutes all of you evangelical dispensational heretics,
because you put that at the end of the world
and you don't believe that Christ is the king of
the New Testament, Israel the Church. There is no separate
Israel that He's also king of. That's why Peter says
the first Peter two, the whold I lay in Zion
a chief, cornerstone, elect and precious. He says, you are
the living stones. You are the Holy Priesthood. The gentile
believers are the Holy priests. The gentile believers are Zion.
The gentile believers are the chosen people, the Holy Nation.
That's Israel. Israel alone has the priesthood. Now it is
the Gentiles that have the priesthood and the Jews that believe,
clear as day, there is no other Israel. That's the
only one. Paul says in Galatians six sixteen. As many
as you of you walk according to my rule, Peace
and mercy be upon them some about what He's taught
in the letter to the Galatians, and upon the Israel
of God. Who's the Israel of God? The church? How
do I know that? Well, if I go to Galatians three.
The promise of Abraham is to those who are in Christ.
There's no promise to Abraham. That's a separate fulfillment at
the end of history in a thousand year kingdom in Palestine,
or in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem or wherever. Right there.
It's telling you that everybody in Galatia, in the Church
of Galatian in the first century, that has faith and
is baptized, you are Abraham's seed. That's the only seed
that matters, the divine seed of divine sonship through baptism.
And I want anybody who disagrees, I want you to
call in. I see a lot of people that are
new Joel. I want you to call in if you
disagree Celestial no, that's orthodox, justin. Anybody who disagrees that
none of them will actually come and argue their points.
So it's so bizarre. Carson, call in if you disagree.
We got a lot of people in here. Mixon, call
in now, By a Cow, you talked a bunch of smack.
Are you going to call in? I'm and invite you
to speak. I want you to explain how I'm wrong
in interpreting these passages, because when I go to Galatians four,
Paul is even more forceful than three. Paul says that
the Israel on earth is actually like Hagar. The heavenly
Jerusalem is the Church which is the real mother of
those who believe in our Abraham seat. This is the
same heavenly city of Hebrews eleven, which includes all the
Old Testament saints like Moses and Isaiah, as well as
post Crucifixion resurrection saints like Paul, the Apostles, and all
the Orthodox Church fathers. There's only one city, only one covenant.
They're all in Christ, as we just saw in Romans fifteen.
So how am I wrong in this? By a Cow?
Speaker 2: I actually agree with you that the church is Israel.
My only issue was that it's not the Catholic Church.
Speaker 1: It's the Orthodox Catholic Church. There is no other church.
Speaker 2: No, there is no church period. There's the body of Christ.
Speaker 1: Was my point. How could there be no church when
the ecclasia is the body of Christ according to Paul?
Speaker 2: Right, but what does ecclasia mean?
Speaker 1: That means a gathering?
Speaker 2: Well, doesn't mean a building or an institution or a
corporal body.
Speaker 1: Well, Paul talks about one body of people at Corinth
and an Ephicis. Does he not does he not write
letters to churches at cities?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, one hundred percent? I agree with you.
Speaker 1: Okay, how are they not an institution?
Speaker 3: Well, considering they gave everything away and you know it
was more of a community.
Speaker 1: Where is your evidence that Corinth and Ephesis gave everything away?
Speaker 2: Well, if you read an Axe, what it talks about Corinth.
Speaker 1: And Ephesis, that's not what happens in Corinth and Ephesis.
You're talking about a different situation and acts. Where is
your evidence that at Corinth and Ephesis Paul told them
to do that? I never said that, Okay, So there
is no So there is no evidence. So you're just
you're just asserting that. No, you're just a jackass, Okay,
I say, no arguments and just dumb heresies. So no
idea about church history, no idea what you're talking about,
can't actually debate, and he runs away glad. What's up?
This is what we get with these evangelicals is just
the most extreme arrogance that is equivalent to what we
get with the Muslims. They're actually of the same I'm
now convinced they're of the same spirit. They're all essentially Judaizers.
The Muslims are because the yep less relious waste of
my time. Who's next, It's open for him. We're going
to talk about the actual passagesm Now we get this
other sort of weird line of argumentation that Jesus didn't
establish a church, he didn't establish an institution. Well, first
of all, he called a college of apostles. Surely, he says,
you will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes
of Israel, which is the church. And we know that
because in the Book of Revelation the Church has on
its foundation stone the names of the twelve apostles. According
to Galatians four, that heavenly Jerusalem is the Church. It
is not a only future reality. According to these goofballs
and goobers that postpone everything to the end the world.
It's a present reality. Hagar represents Mount Sinai and corresponds
to earthly Jerusalem, which now is that religion is in bondage.
It's a false religion. It's a dead religion. And we
are of the heavenly Jerusalem, which is the Mother of us.
All that is the Church, a present reality. Exactly what
he had said in chapter three. How do I join
this present reality? Baptism, faith in Christ. That's how that
makes you Abraham seed. There is no other seed. That's
why Paul says in Galatians three, the genetic lineage doesn't
save you. All it does is give you a first offer,
privileged position to hear the message first. As John the
Baptist says, God can raise up children to Abraham from
rocks and stones. He doesn't need the Jews in the Pharisees. Now,
there's so many passages in the New Testament that make
this abundantly clear that I want to again go to
the parable of the Wicked vine Dressers, which is about
the contemporary Jewish leaders of Jesus day, the Pharisees, and
that they rejected the son right, they rejected the one
who surely they will hear my son, and they say
he is the heir. Let's kill him. Jesus predicting his
own murder by the rabbinic authorities, and he asked them
when the vine when the vineyard owner returns, what will
he do? These people, well, they said he will destroy him,
and they perceive that he was speaking of them. The
Jesus says, have you not read the scripture? Is the
stone that the builders reject. It is the cornerstone. Therefore,
the Kingdom of God will be taken from you Jews
and given to a nation the Gentiles spoken under the
title of nation producing the fruits thereof all the heretics
who think that there's still some separate nation state of Israel,
that is somehow part of all of the covenantal promises.
All Romans eleven tells you is that they can still
come into the one tree they have to be grafted in.
There's not two trees, there's only one tree. That fact
right there refutes all of these evangelical liars and heretics
who go to Romans eleven to try to prove that
there's a dual covenant going on. No, there's not. The Jews,
he says, because of unbelief are cast away. How do
you get a dual covenant out of cast away? It's insane.
The only way is that they can be grafted back in,
and if they believe, and if they repent, they can
be grafted back in. And Paul predicts a future conversion.
I believe of the Jews at some point, but there's
nothing at all about some separate promise. In fact, he
says their enemies of the Gospel in verse twenty eight.
Are they still the Jews? Correct, they are, but they
have forsaken their calling. They are enemies of the Gospel,
and so until they repent, they cannot be saved. But
Paul's arguing they can still be saved. God still loves
all people, and especially he still loves Jews. Sure they
can be saved, but not in some dual covenant, separate pathway,
or separate covenant. It's just completely non existence, can totally
made up. As we just saw. Remember remember how powerful
Romans fifteen is in this argumentation. Jesus came to fulfill
the promises to the Jews and to the gentiles. What
do we mean to the gentiles? All throughout the Old Testament,
we've done podcasts on this. There's dozens and dozens of
passages in the Psalms, in Isaiah and the minor Prophets
that predicts that the Gentiles will come into the covenant,
into the kingdom and worship the God of Israel. Well,
guess what that's been happening for two thousand years. That's
the fulfillment of this and those passages. Paul is not
saying this is an end times reality. It's a present reality.
And only the most abtuse of just idiotic people would
act like, no, this is the end of the world.
That's when that happens. He says, Jesus came, he has become,
not he will at the end of the world. He
is the fulfillment of the promises made to the fathers.
That's Noah. Actually, Adam is a covenant too, a damnic covenant,
noeic covenant, mosaic, dividic. All come to their telos, their telos,
their purpose in the First Advent, in the establishment of
the Kingdom. That's why Jesus, throughout the Gospels, which I
guess these people are just ignorant of, constantly refers to
the Kingdom as a present reality. In Luke, he says,
the Kingdom of God doesn't come with signs and omens.
It will at the end of the world and it's
fullest sense. But he says, the King of God is
within you. It's the presence of the Holy Spirit in
your heart. Through Baltism. The King of God is the
presence of love, joy, peace, patience, kind of senterless and
thoughtult of self control, the fruits of this. That's the
presence of the Kingdom of God. And that exists in
the life of the Church that Jesus set up, which
is a historical reality. It's not this amorphous, invisible thing
that makes you a gnostic. It's an actual, historical body,
just as real and just as physical as His body.
That's why in First Corinthians, Paul says, you are the
body of Christ. In corinth you are his eyes, his arms,
his legs, et cetera, because you are that baptized physical embodiment.
Protestants and Evangelicals are gnostics because they have a Nestorian church.
There is a bunch of sects, and then there is
that invisible group that's the real church. There's one visible
body of people. At for example, corinth Paul doesn't have
a thousand different sects at Corinth that are all the church.
But he's only writing his legs to the invisible Christians.
There are these secret church. No, there's one church at Ephesus,
the one that he told Timothy to be the bishop
of because he laid hands on Timothy and said, you
have authority in Ephesus because I laid hands on you.
Therefore you don't lay hands on anybody else hastily. Because
there's the transferring of the gift to the Holy Spirit.
That's not charismatic Protestant gibberish and rolling around embarking and
acting like a retard. That's apostolic succession. That's exactly what
happens in the Book of Numbers when Moses passes on
the Holy Spirit. Gather to me, to the seventy elders,
consecrate yourselves to the Lord, and Moses lays hands on them,
and the spirit is upon them. Upon the elders, the
Holy Spirit. It's not Moses' spirit, you see the typology
of moses Dolic succession. What Moses is doing is a
type a pattern of what will happen when the true
Moses comes Christ, who institutes his church, and then the
apostles do exactly what Moses does.
Speaker 3: Here, Timothy has his hands laid on him by Paul.
Paul established Timothy to be in charge at Ephesus. I
charge you, Timothy, to wage this warfare.
Speaker 1: He says. There's people who have already taught that the
resurrection has happened at Ephesus, named Hymeneus and Alexander. They
are satanic blasphemers. They did not get the charge from Paul.
Paul did not lay his hands on Hymoneus and Alexander.
They are heretics. They are called out as heretics. And
he tells Timothy to boyd those two heretics because I
charged you, He says, I laid hands on you, and
the gift of the Holy Spirit was given to you.
In the Protestant view, there is no such thing as
apostolic succession. There is a succession of ideas. That's their
succession of the supposed Gospel, which was of course lost
immediately after the death of the apostles, because the church
fell into having an episcopacy and having the Eucharist, having
Baptist regeneration, having liturgy, all of these things that ignorant
and foolish Protestants don't even realize is what the apostles
themselves set up. Mendo, what's up, Mando? What's up? I mean,
hey day, thanks for hosting man this.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you're taking general questions about the topic,
and I don't have like a debate to offer, but
I was just wondering.
Speaker 1: I was wondering, Uh, if the.
Speaker 4: Early Church bothers, if they saw that, you know, the
destruction of the Temple and the diaspora of the Jews
to almost corroborate, or did they comment on that in.
Speaker 1: Like of course, yes, most of the Eastern Fathers are
partial preteros absolutely. John christostem and his homilies on Matthew
twenty four, Saint Anthonasius when he talks about Daniel nine,
that's fulfilled at the first avant and the destruction of
the Temple. It's so obvious too when you read Daniel nine.
Where do these idiot evangelicals split the split this week
in this giant time frame, and it's all the Prince
there is actually the anti Christ. No, it's Messiah the Prince.
He's called Messiah the Prince or the Prince in the
Book of Ezekiel too. So why would we think that
the Prince of Daniel nine. Oh, that's a separate Antichrist prince.
It's the same prince that's anointed. Who's the anointed? I
wonder what I wonder who the massa.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and even Jews think it's talking about the Messiah.
Speaker 1: The Messiah will be cut off and the people of
the prince who is to come will destroy the sanctuary
that's talking about. It depends on whether you're reding the
septuagen or whether reading the Mazaretic text this is masaatic,
but here the Masoretic reads it like the Prince is Titus.
But either way, if it's the Messiah, it's of course
what Luke twenty one is saying that Jesus says, I
will send the King, will send his armies and destroy
the city talking about Jerusalem. So it doesn't really matter
how you say prince. But the reason that evangelicals need
prince to be the Antichrist there is because they have
to split the final week of Daniel nine to the
end of the world. But you'll notice the reason that
it's the Messiah is that at the end of this
abomination of desolation, what happens is that there's an end
to sacrifice an offering. When Jesus destroyed the temple in
seventy a d. He put an end to sacrifice an offering,
and when he made reconciliation, he sealed up vision and prophecy.
So after seventy eight D, that's the finality of big
scale revelations. We don't need, I mean until the end
of the world. But there's no new, ongoing revelations. It's
another passage that tells us that we don't have ongoing
new public revelations. So any cults that come along and
teach new revelations Mohammad, Joseph Smith, Montanus Ellen White, they're
de facto heretics because there are no new prophets. The
role of a prophet ceased when the Gospel revelation was complete,
and that was said by Jude and Jude three to
be once for all committed to the Saints. Well, it
was once for all committed, and the New Testant revelation
is complete, and the last apostle died. There's no more
oral or written word of God. It's complete. And yes,
the apostles many times over referred to their oral teaching
as the word of God. Which Protestants don't even know. Bird?
What's that? Bird? Welcome everybody. We are trying to get
the evangelical dispensations to come, but I don't think any
of them will ever ever show up. What's up?
Speaker 5: Yeah, just from the standpoint of that are understanding. Sometimes
you see like news articles of an entire congregation converting
to Orthodoxy. So I'm wondering, like it was, say an
Anglican church, like the whole congregation wanted to become part
of Yah.
Speaker 2: They have.
Speaker 1: I helped an entire Anglican church convert in twenty seventeen,
So what.
Speaker 2: Does what does that look like?
Speaker 6: What does that entail?
Speaker 1: How do you like, how do you cross that barrier? Why?
I don't cross it. I mean they are received under
one of the bishops, So it depends on which bishopric
receives them. So what I don't understand what you mean?
Speaker 5: Like, so obviously the liturgy changes like everything.
Speaker 2: You know. You listen, you have a building with a
bunch of.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean they're not immediate, They're not necessarily
immediately going to make that person a priest. I mean
they may, it depends on the situation. So it's a
case by case basis, So there's not going to be.
But I mean usually there's a you know, canonical times
between how long you can be converted and then how
long before you can become a deacon of a priest.
You can't just typically that's not like overnight.
Speaker 5: Because yeah, because you'd have to phase the whole community
into a different you know, aspect and style of literagy,
change the music, change the Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean it's not going to happen over the weekend. Yeah, okay,
thanks ye Jeff, what's up, Jeff? What's on your mind? Jeff?
Rather you have to unmute man. I'd also like to
ask the evangelical dispensationless what are these passages talking about divorce,
the divorce of Israel, right, because there's quite a few
of these, I mean not tons, but at least a handful. Okay,
what is the divorce in Jeremiah three? Here? What's up?
H Browsey, it's up, Jake.
Speaker 7: I don't even have anything to add. I just thought
you would think this is funny. You know, you've been
posting about how much you've you know, been trying to
get somebody.
Speaker 1: More dispensation listening to a debate and obviously.
Speaker 7: I've been tagging you in dozens and maybe even a
hundred over one hundred like separate posts, or like I'll
retweet somebody's stuff and I'll tag you in it, or
even just like type your name. So my page got
flagged yesterday for spam because of how much I did it.
Speaker 1: Like I thought, well, don't do that, don't get flagged,
but you know I did, like all, so a.
Speaker 7: Couple of days ago, I realized I've been like commenting
on so much of James Lindsay stuff that I was like, yeah,
I might this might be a problem.
Speaker 1: And it was, like I.
Speaker 7: Said, I couldn't post for like an hour yesterday while
they did while they did a little review of my
my page.
Speaker 1: But I'm good now.
Speaker 7: So yeah, that was pretty much it and like nobody, nobody,
no matter how many times I did it, I replied
or retweeted. Then that then that's just stuff. Maybe like
a dozen times past the red block, I hit him
James Lindsay over and over again. I could go on
and on with the names, not a single one. And
I know they saw it. I know for a fact
they've seen it because they will reply to somebody else's
stuff right after.
Speaker 1: Me, Yeah, and I knew they weren't ever going to respond,
So I.
Speaker 2: Did have one more question. Do you remember that you
remember that.
Speaker 1: Polist that called in like two years ago? What the polist?
Speaker 7: You know, people that actually like worshiped Paul that It
was a guy he might have been trolling, but there
was a guy that called in.
Speaker 1: On a stream like two or three years ago. I
don't remember.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I had somebody, I had somebody asked me about
that a few days ago, and I wanted to find
that stream because you were after he got off, like
you said.
Speaker 1: Something about it. But I'm gonna really have to look.
Speaker 7: You know, far back for that stream because that's the
only person that you know, they ascribed to that I've
ever even heard of. So yeah, all I appreciate you
how to do it? Sure, yeah, good good riddance. Not
to you, BROSI, but to the guy talking smack in
the chat. Yeah, don't we don't need you, hear He's like,
I am unsubscribing at this very Yeah, I don't care.
Speaker 1: If you can't call in and defend your stupid positions,
then you're welcome to leave. Dudomie twenty four talks about
the relationship between a husband and a wife, and the
bill of divorce that's given. And so God says, you know,
if there's uncleanness, she's unfaithful, you hand her a bill
of divorce, et cetera. And God's own relationship, as everybody knows,
I think to Israel is characterized as a marriage. But
Israel consistently throughout the Old Testament, as everybody knows who's
familiar with it, was an unfaithful spouse. And by the
time that Jeremiah, God says, I've had enough, I am
going to divorce her. She has played the harlot. Therefore,
I'm giving her a certificate of divorce, just like what
he talked about and did Roe twenty four.
Speaker 3: He says the same thing in Hoseiah. Now when was
this and how does this happen? Well, but God's promises
here forever he could ever divorcel close.
Speaker 1: He said it was eternal. Yeah, So the way that
that's reconciled is that flesh Israel is given a bill
of divorce when the culmination of their sins come to
its full fruition and the crucifixion of the Messiah, and
thus they are divorced as Paul says they are the
bond Woman's children. And Jesus can say Matthew twenty three,
that all of the things written in the prophets, including
the divorce of Israel, will come upon this generation, the
generation that he sees and he's talking to, because of
the culmination of their sins in crucifying the Messiah. Just
like in Genesis when it talks about when Egypt's sins
come to their full measure, such and such will happen.
The same thing happens to spiritual sodom in Egypt, according
to the Book of Revelation, which is Israel, the flesh Israel,
their sins come to a culmination in the crucifixion of
the Messiah. There Messiah, and so all the things written
in the prophets, including the promise of the bill of divorce.
That's why the Book of Revelation is the pouring out
of the Covenant sanctions, the penalties the Covenant penal sanctions
upon Israel written in Deuteronomy and Leviticus for unfaithfulness to
the Covenant. And this is the fulfillment of ultimate unfaithfulness. Thus,
the Book of Revelation is God's bill of divorce to
flesh Israel, and instead he's married the Church, the true Israel,
those who love him and have the law written on
their hearts, which was always how you were saved. Damien,
what's up, Damien? What's up? I'm mute, Damien, unmute.
Speaker 8: If you want to talk, Daniel, I'm mute, Daniel.
Speaker 1: Hey, what's up? Man? How you doing good?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 9: First time listener. I've listened to the Sam Hi show before.
Speaker 1: I love the guy.
Speaker 9: I think the show is amazing. So I see your writer,
so I popped in. Nice to meet you. Hey, yeah, man,
I'm picking up what you're putting down.
Speaker 10: Man.
Speaker 9: I grew up in an evangelical church and have been
sort of radicalized since I wouldn't say radicalize. Actually that's
what they say I am. But I've totally changed my
views since October seventh, like probably millions and millions and
millions of Americans. So I'm like a baby in the
whole Israel thing. But I've learned a lot in a
very short period of time. And there's once you notice
things you can unnotice. It's impossible. So yeah, the we've
been doing spaces lately entitled is Zionism Retardation or supremacy
or racism or all three. And then we invite Zionists
up on the stage and ask them to define Zionism
and what it is to be a Jew. And what
we're discovering is that they cannot define either or and
without surprise to see retardation or.
Speaker 1: Racism.
Speaker 9: And it's pretty incredible.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 9: We give them an opportunity, and when you ask them
what is a Jew, nine times out of ten they
define what a Jew is by the same word by
saying someone who's born whose mother is a Jew, which
is antithetical, like you cannot define a word with the
same word.
Speaker 1: It's a circular argument.
Speaker 9: So basically we are going to be holding these spaces.
Speaker 1: We'd love to have you one day.
Speaker 9: That wasn't the purpose of me coming in, but I
wanted to just say that Judeo Christian its actual meaning
is a Jew who converts to Christianity. And it's been
I'd love to know your thoughts on how it's been
sort of captured by the Zionist movement since I would
say eighteen early eighteen hundreds. Early the Mormons started this,
they were like the old g triple Og Zionists. Before
it was even a thing, and that's acurately. They're actually
literal Jews. They believe they're descendants of the Twelve Tribes
of this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've had a lot of Mormons come in debate.
Speaker 9: Yeah great. So I just think that, like, uh, the Antichrist,
in my opinion, is a spirit and it resides within
the Church. It resides in religious ideologies, mainly mainly the
one that if you are a Christian and you don't
support the nation state of Israel, you will not be
blessed by God.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just to just to let you let you know, like, yeah,
we did two podcasts this week on that on my channel.
So we did a whole debunking of Christian Zionism a
few days ago called Christian Zionism Dispensations and refuted from
the Bible. And then we did another podcast, part two
going into the history of it, and we talked about Schofield,
Plymouth Brethren, rothschildst for that study Bible, Samuel Untermeyer in
the US. So yeah, I'd be happy to come on
a space anytime. Just yeah, you could just tag me
or message me anytime you want me to come up.
But I appreciate that. Daniel, did you want to say
something else. Come back. I thought you were done. Go ahead,
we want to say something else, go ahead? Yeah, yeah,
I was.
Speaker 9: I appreciate that, man, and I was just wanted to
ask you. Can I find those podcasts on your page.
Speaker 1: Here on No No on my YouTube channel. So we
livestream everything through YouTube. So if you go to jay
di or YouTube, you'll see that past live streams. If
you go back about five of them, the fourth and
fifth one are the two podcasts that would be right
up your alley. Great, thank you, yeah, thank you. Manuel.
That's it's funny. I don't know how you got How
do you guys get these people actually come? They won't
actually come and debate with me, So like I'm trying
to figure out how to get them to actually come
in here, Like none of them will actually come. What's
up man? We have one evangelical come in here. He's like,
you're at jagas, I'm madies, I'm mad a damien. If
you want to call back in go ahead, Chris, what's
up man? What's on your mind?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 6: What do we say to these people that believe that
Jews are Israel When Jesus Christ, God in the flesh,
says that they are of a different bloodline entirely, and
that they're actually up their father through the devil.
Speaker 1: Well, the are you a Christian identity person, because that's
an opposite, that's actually a that's a cabalistic heresy itself.
So they're not a different bloodline, there is spiritual descendant
of the devil. Wow.
Speaker 6: So when people say that Jews or Israel, how do
we refute.
Speaker 1: That as Christians? That's literally the first thirty minutes of
this podcast was going through all the texts that refute that. Okay,
I mean fifteen huh, yeah, I just helped in here.
That's all good. I mean, are sorry? Do you believe
in the serpentcyed theory? No?
Speaker 6: But I think it's interesting that the King James Bible
says that I can't remember which book it is, but
Jesus is literally telling them, you're not even remotely related.
Speaker 1: To us to who use? What do you mean? The
children of Israel?
Speaker 6: To the modern Jews today are not even remotely related
to the Jews.
Speaker 1: Of the Bible. Well, that's a different topic than the
Jews Jesus is talking to. So in Matthew twenty three,
he says that the Scribes and the Pharisees are actual Jews.
And John fourth to the Woman of the Well. He says,
salvation is of the Jews. So he's not calling them
all a different bloodline. That's a totally different topic from
Jesus calling them and John, you know, eight and whatever,
sons of the devil. It doesn't mean that their genetic
lineage is of Satan.
Speaker 6: Okay, So is it Paul who says that when the
Jews of today say that we're Israel, Paul says.
Speaker 1: That they are lying. Yeah, they're not the true Israel.
We just we just cover Galatians three and four. Uh,
you know, in Thessalonians, he says that they are enemies
of God, enemies the Gospel revelation says synagogue or Satan. Sure,
but it's not talking about it. It's not talking about
their genetics.
Speaker 6: So like, what would you label the Jews of today
that have the Israeli flag?
Speaker 1: What would be the Orthodox Christian description of them? They
are still Jews. And that's why all the Church fathers
after the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth centuries, they
never stopped calling the people Jews. They just say that
their enemies of the Gospel and they're outside of the church.
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks, sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why Paul talks about in Romans eleven a
future conversion of the Jews. But when how that will happen?
We don't know, k bird, what's something. But it's not
a separate covenant, and it's not a genetic problem like
Jews are not the serpent seed or something like that.
What's up?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Are you there?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I'm there.
Speaker 1: What's on your mind?
Speaker 7: Hi?
Speaker 11: My question is Okay, I came from Romania and I
grew up.
Speaker 2: I was born in Romania.
Speaker 11: And in a Christian family pentecost and I never judge
about different other religion in day if they believe in God,
Jesus as a son and the.
Speaker 2: Holy Spirit, and.
Speaker 1: We have a Romania.
Speaker 2: Well, I live in US.
Speaker 11: Now, but for four years already Romania it was a
lot of prosecution with Christians.
Speaker 2: It was the commonist.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, we know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's why I I was nineteen and I want.
Speaker 11: To get out of there to to taste the freedom
and America and all that. I never judge religion as
long as the way I.
Speaker 2: Said, what do you think about the pope? The symbol
of the.
Speaker 11: Pope and his job like he's on top two, like
ruling the Catholics and all that.
Speaker 2: What do you think his placed in a Bible?
Speaker 3: I think the pope is a street gooy, Bope is
three boy, Jeff?
Speaker 1: What's up?
Speaker 2: Pope?
Speaker 1: Count vampire? He So I lived next to uh.
Speaker 2: Christian High School and this school.
Speaker 12: Has basically banned Orthodox, Like a lot of teachers from
there used to be Orthodox, or they became Orthodox and
they started converting too many people to Orthodoxy where they
changed their declaration of faith where.
Speaker 2: You can basically be a heretic. You can be.
Speaker 12: Different beliefs, but you can't be Orthodox. But they teach
classes like Judeo Christianity.
Speaker 2: Uh, my neighbor is.
Speaker 12: My neighbor is a teacher there and he has an
Israeli flag.
Speaker 1: Out in front.
Speaker 12: Super pro Jewish, but yeah, they will. You can be
a heretic and teach there.
Speaker 1: You can ever Yeah, yeah, Well that's because they deep
down ignorantly are persecuting and opposing the real thing. And
that's really what today is about. I mean, I got
on Twitter, and I rarely do this, but I did
it the past few weeks because I've figured out that
maybe that's how I can get these people to come
and discuss, and I went to the dreaded for you.
As you guys know, I have for years avoided the
for you because it is just.
Speaker 7: Who who I.
Speaker 1: Mean, I'm full Rick Flair over here when it comes
to just the idiocy, dude, it is just like only
topped by TikTok. The only thing dumber than the idiocy
of the for you is TikTok. TikTok is the total
bottom of the barrel. It is the dumbest of the dumb.
It is just chirping, barking dogs and monkeys on Twitter.
I mean on X, I mean TikTok. Excuse me. You
can't even hardly have a conversation. And the last time
I went on there, as you guys know, Agent and
all his goblins got the stream pulled down. So that's
what they'll do. If you go on TikTok and have
a live stream, they will report your live stream. That's
how That's how dishonest and pathetic the Oriental goblins are.
But that's all they have. They can't actually argue their case,
and every time they put forward some loser, he gets
demolished and then three years later they waited for some
other loser to pop up. So it was sever and
Zelat four years ago. In four years it'll be some
other Zelot. And they were so dishonest about my statement
of Brown cult because they know that my point was
to say that when you leave the Gospel, you become
an ethnic tribal cult. So they became the ethnic tribal cult,
which is I'm criticizing their ethnophilitism, but they say I'm
the racist. So they act just like all the social
justice warriors, screaming that I'm racist for calling out them
putting their tribe above the Orthodox faith, and that's exactly
what they did. Nick con what's up anyway? So it's
the same attitude and the same energy from all of
these insane zio freaks across X. So if I go
to X and if I click on the for you,
where's this dreaded for you? Watch this? It's going to
be nothing but just insanity. Watch this. Now, I know
that the for you is intended to this awful, awful,
worst of the worst Protestant profiles of chat, whom I've
asked to debate like twenty times, and you just post
like the worst a AI slop images NonStop. I've tried
to get this Lizzy girl to come chat. What's up man?
What's on your mind? Nick On? This is a Mormon
goofball who won't come debate. What's up? Nick On? I'm you, yo,
what's up?
Speaker 2: Jay?
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at nothing but Ben Shapiro promotion in
my feed everywhere. It's like Ben Shapiro, Candace Bad Tucker.
In fact, Den Desuzo was going off today and he's like,
I'm finally looking into the Trolie Kirk assassination. I'm like, oh,
let me guess Tucker and Candace did it right, because
we know where he's going with it. But what's on
your mind? You know, it would be really.
Speaker 13: Funny sketch sketch comedy idea, as if you were to go, well,
there's a couple of here, so one somebody needs to
troll the Benny Hinn style Protestant megachurches and go in
there and pretend like they need some kind of healing
and then just like freak out.
Speaker 10: As as as soon as it gets slain in the spirit, just.
Speaker 1: Do something really wild or sketch comedy idea.
Speaker 2: You know you have like the TBN.
Speaker 10: Pat Robertson types who are like, somebody in this room
is struggling.
Speaker 1: Somebody's got gout. I can sense it. You've got a
little bit of gout right around your toenails and right
here on your throat.
Speaker 10: Yeah yeah, But like I'm sensing in this room somebody
who hasn't had a bowel movement in forty days, somebody
who hasn't had a battle movement, and then just slain
in the spirit.
Speaker 1: Tons of diarrhea everywhere. I like it. By the way,
look at this, this Mormon goofball actually trying to defend
this laughable, made up thing from Joseph Smith. Yeah. So yeah,
it's like all Zio freaks talking about evangelical nonsense. Well,
there's a couple of atheists popped up in here. I
haven't seen any atheists in a while, So Mormons, and uh,
that's all that's all the for you is. So maybe
we'll get something to come in here. Oh, here we go. No, wait,
I hate Zionism. What's up? I'm mute? All right, he's
not gonna mute. C R. What's up? C R? What's up?
I'm mute? Hey, Jay, how are you doing getting me? Yeah?
Speaker 14: Okay, Yeah, sorry, first time, first time ever trying to
get a question in and ad a couple of things.
So I really respect everything you've been doing, and I
really appreciate the information, and uh definitely looked over a
lot of the the videos and stuff they'll put together.
I haven't got to everything, but I've been debating with
Protestants that I know, et cetera. I come from a
very loose like hippie ish that southern California Protestant sort
of Methodist family. I mean, you're talking about that last week,
and it's been very difficult for me to like find
the right path. And I've been appreciative of the talks
and orthodoxy and I've been coming to that on a
couple of things. But one of the challenges I've had
is the historicity and knowing the information, and uh, one
of one of the things I haven't been able to
fully get to grips with is what potential there is
for corruption with the early Church versus say, like the
Byzantine Empire and.
Speaker 1: Things like that.
Speaker 6: And so that was one of the things I'd gone.
Speaker 14: Over your book listings already for things like theology and
ecclesiarchy and things like this. But I'm curious if I
missed a good recommendation on things like the Byzantine emperors
and any corruption that potentially might have gone on with
the church there that I could learn from maybe have
a good recommendation.
Speaker 1: I mean, there is the I don't know about a
specific book on the corruption. I mean there's a book.
There's a famous book on Byzantine intrigues in corruption by
it's not what's the guy's name not, it's not proclus
it's pro Copious. I think is that's like the famous
book by the guy who didn't like Byzantium. But there
is also and he was a guy who wrote against
Saint Justinian and all that. But I mean there's also
the three volume set by the Byzantine famous businessing historian
Julian Gwen Blank. I had to get up early for church,
so I'm like, oh, yeah, there's a good introduction book
by Steven Runson and the historian, which I read a
long time ago. But John Julian Norwich, uh his uh,
there's a bridge version John Julius Norwich, excuse me. His
abridge version is a readable history and it would talk
about some of the corruption there, but more specifically in
terms of ideological different is the Synicia Glue book Radical
Platonism in Byzantium that would deal more with like the
theological struggles in Byzantium Vrangian. What's up, Clue? Yeah, what's up? Man?
Speaker 2: Hey, longtime listener.
Speaker 15: I'm actually friends with Daniel who came up earlier, and
I became an inquirer back in twenty sixteen, and I
was recently baptized this year into the Greek Orthodox Church
and just wanted to say before I go, you're you're
a big part of that.
Speaker 1: So thank you for everything you do.
Speaker 15: But I guess my question when it pertains to like
Protestantism and Tinian Desigonism, it just seems like even in
the in the past few years, like these megachurches, you know,
like the Kennis Copelands and the Franklin Jensens of the world,
like they're finally kind of starting to exposed. And I
know you've talked about like a lot of their ties
to like the CIA and in government institutions, but even
more so now it's just coming out not just that,
but just how kind of money hungry and fraudulent a
lot of these churches are. Yes, and my question is
what's it going to take for like those parishioners and
just Americans in general to finally like realize what's actually
going on with those churches. Like it just blows my
mind that they continue to function and grow and continue
to feed off of people like that. I just don't
understand how they can't see what's going on. So I
just kind of wanted to get your thoughts on that.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's a combination of things spiritual delusion
and blindness. It's low IQ stupidity. Americans are very uneducated,
very dumb. I mean, it's all of that. We're also
slaves to our vices. I mean, there's a lot going on.
But speaking of that, I forgot there's I think just
two megachurches busting the last couple of weeks for all
kinds of insanity. Here's one look at this.
Speaker 16: Two church leaders with ties to Tampa are facing federal
charges tonight. They're at the center of what investigators are
calling a multi million dollar conspiracy involving money laundering, forced labor,
and abuse.
Speaker 7: This follow what I say.
Speaker 1: These churches are money laundering.
Speaker 16: Including at a home.
Speaker 1: Look at that pastor's home, dude, or the church's home.
That's the damn church right ere. That's time for the church, son.
Speaker 3: We're about to have an eyes watch shut church party
in the basement too. That's what That's what they call
an after party. You know what I'm saying, y'all ever.
Speaker 1: Heard of the after party?
Speaker 3: I put my key incognition high and fresh out of
that kitchen, Ma Morola, and now by they got every
man inhuition sipping on cocaine.
Speaker 1: Wrong.
Speaker 3: I'm like, so what I'm drawing. It's a freaking weekend, baby,
were about to have some some church.
Speaker 16: In the affluent Avalane neighborhood in Hillsboro County. This was
part the nationwide takedown. Fox thirteen is covering this investigation
from multiple angles. Are Kylie Jones is at the Federal
Courthouse in Tampa, diving deeper into the church and its leaders.
But we begin with Aaron Mesmer live in Avala with
more on the raid and reaction from neighbors.
Speaker 17: Aaron, Yeah, Heley and these neighbors were absolutely stunned by
what went on this morning.
Speaker 1: Neighbors in this community, they.
Speaker 17: Woke up to helicopters and FBI agents raiding a home
in Novela and once they found out why those agery
are there, it was even more surprising.
Speaker 18: Some of you say, I don't have one hundred thousand,
but you have twenty thousand, You have fifty thousand.
Speaker 1: Here, you have ten thousand.
Speaker 19: That's video of David Taylor asking viewers to send money
to me.
Speaker 1: I need to adopt the model of David Taylor. All
of y'all right.
Speaker 3: Now, at y'all home, Deacons, wives, moms, close the dough,
close the dough. You ain't getting out until I see
twenty thousand dollars in the super Chit ain't nobody getting
out that house.
Speaker 1: You sitting on the toilet, You staying on the pot
right now.
Speaker 3: You set your ass down and keep shitting until I
see twenty thousand dollars in the super chat.
Speaker 1: Right now, y'all ain't leaving this room.
Speaker 3: Y'all ain't leaving this here ex Twitter space until I
see seeds of faith put right here into the super
a Chat. Huh haight man, twenty thousand dollars, super Chat.
That's our goal today. And ain't none of y'all leaving
until I see twenty thousand right now. I want to
see each one of you reaching into your Grandmama's purse.
Reaching into your aunt is a person, reaching into your
sisters a person and somehow figure out how to put
it into the Internet and send it to the super chat.
Right though, That's what I'm talking about right now.
Speaker 19: Authorities now say Taylor used donations to fund an extravagant
lifestyle that included this massive mansion in Tampa's affluent OVLA community.
FBI agents rated the home Wednesday morning.
Speaker 9: It's very surprising, team.
Speaker 1: I like how the FBI agents can bust this obvious
fake ass church, which everybody in Tampa probably knew was
a fake ass church. But they can't bust nobody else.
They can't find the human traffickers, but they can bust
this dumb ass fake church. And then on top of that,
there was a whole other one. Remember this was a
couple of weeks ago. Here we go, this lovely man.
Speaker 20: Here, the man who once led one of the largest
congregations in America, today walking into an Oklahoma courthouse pleading
guilty to sexually abusing an underage girl.
Speaker 9: This has taken my entire lifetime to get here.
Speaker 20: That girl was Cindy Klemishire, now fifty five.
Speaker 3: Now there was another megachurch, not just this black dude's church.
There was a whole other one somewhere. And see where
that one is. Oh this, this might be it human trafficking.
Oh that's the same one.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: Let's see, really.
Speaker 20: Scared to be honest, because we never suspected something like
that from him when he said he was a pastor.
Speaker 21: And well, you mean the pastor was like totally like
stealing people or whatever?
Speaker 1: Bro, how can a pastor steal people?
Speaker 22: Stuff?
Speaker 23: That a joint FBI operation stretch from Michigan to Texas
to Florida and then right in the heart of North Carolina.
That's the same self professed religious leaders has been taken
into custody in Durham after.
Speaker 1: All, Right, there's another one that happened, and I've shared
it on YouTube, but I can't remember. Let's see Texas megachurch,
FBI mansion And that's not it. There's another one. Where's
the other one? But you know what, this happens like
every few weeks almost, so you could just put in
a Google update for every few weeks one of these
fake ass churches.
Speaker 3: Mexican megachurch. Oh, here's one Mexico.
Speaker 21: A dude all you've got to do Bro, like barely,
you just got a barely super chat or whatever.
Speaker 1: There's like a little bitty see.
Speaker 21: The faith, Bro, And like probably probably I could probably
I could do something with that, but like probably it
needs to be like at least like five hundred dollars
or something.
Speaker 1: Barely. What if it's like barely like four hundred or whatever.
I mean, Okay, that's cool, that's right. Michael.
Speaker 24: The church leader's attorney just gave us a savement a
short time ago.
Speaker 2: You'll hear that in just a short bit.
Speaker 24: He's already serving it right now, state time in state
prison for crimes he committed guilty too. He's been transferred over.
Speaker 1: Bro. They just started the persecute people. Man, It's just
it's just a state.
Speaker 2: The persecuting bro or custody.
Speaker 1: Now a federal agents searches a system. Bro, it's the system. Ro,
that's a freaking system.
Speaker 24: The mass agents swarmed this houncil block away from the
Laalusta Mundo church here in East La Our cameras caught
them carrying out large boxes and the prosecutors believe could
be kind to a massive international racketeering and child export
tation and a problem in this you Federal indictment prosecutors
say Garcia and five others abuse their power, doctrine, and
structure of the La Luce de Mundo church to threaten.
Speaker 14: L lul.
Speaker 21: Labuta, le boa la Mundo, l Moon l Mundo.
Speaker 1: You know, la bota. It's like the most famous Mexican song.
Speaker 21: Lea boa lata lebou.
Speaker 1: We're just having church. What's y'all's problem. Listen, this preacher
game works, y'all. Just send me a ship ton of
super chats. I'm starting to think this preacher game is
where it's at. That's why I should have been a preacher, dude,
to start my own church.
Speaker 3: Get a damn palace, Get a bunch of dang hump slaves,
get a bunch of dang What else do you get? Everything?
Arms gotta go ahead? What else do we get?
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, Private Jetic.
Speaker 15: Tucker actually talked about He interviewed it, dude.
Speaker 2: He talked about that Tampa pastor.
Speaker 15: But he also went after Kenneth Copeland.
Speaker 1: He's got a whole freaking oil.
Speaker 15: Operation going on on the on the what's the name
of it? What do they call the land that's owned
by the parishioners supposedly by that lake.
Speaker 1: Are you talking about? I know you're talking about Pastor
Randy Balls' church.
Speaker 15: Oh okay, I thought it was Kenneth Copeland as well.
Speaker 1: No, no, have you have you looked into Randy Balls.
Speaker 15: I haven't looked into him the rectory, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, I know I know what you're talking about.
I'm talking about Randy Balls, the internet's most famous mega
church pastor. Go look up, go to go to YouTube
and type in Randy Balls and you're gonna see two videos.
And in the second video, it's providential you said that
because in the second video, Pastor Randy Balls talks about
his Middle Eastern oil deal. I'm joking, bro, that's me.
I'm Randy Balls. Oh okay.
Speaker 15: I was like, I can't say it.
Speaker 1: But you know what, what's funny is this in the skit,
I put a Middle Eastern oil deal in there. I didn't.
I never actually conceived of a megachurch pastor actually having
an oil deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, no.
Speaker 15: He So this dude went on to, uh, he went
on a Kenneth Copeland's property where, like you know, he
went past the hangar and apparently the rectory which he
has like a ten thousand square foot house and it's
file lake and like apparently he's got an oil.
Speaker 1: Where he got Oh you know who do you remember
Pat Robertson? Oh? Yeah, you know what he did. One
of the first things he did when he got a
bunch of money, he bought a bunch of diamond mines.
Is that crazy? He took the church, he took all
the church money and bought diamond mines.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Lord put it on his heart.
Speaker 1: Yet right exactly, the Lord's put it on my heart.
I've gotta get some of these some of this drip and.
Speaker 3: Blame and ice. The lords told me, I gotta be
iced out.
Speaker 15: Oh man, I appreciate you having me up.
Speaker 1: Man, I'll drop down the well. Just be sure and
go check into uh Randy Balls and get some b
A W l Z and get some spiritual enlightenment. What's up, man,
cole chat the night Stalk or what's up?
Speaker 2: I'm mute, I'm here as we do, say very good uh.
Speaker 1: Space, Thank you much, man. I appreciate that. Sounds like
it was hard to get that out, but I appreciate
you trying. What's up nikon, Yeah, the money laundering remix exactly.
What's up there? I'm mute barely.
Speaker 3: Dude's calling me from Zack Morris's phone from nineteen ninety three.
Speaker 1: One second through my blue blue Dude, I said, Zach
Morris Nokia right there. No, not at all. This is
that dude right now, He's like he's dud. Dude's trying
to call a C slater. I'm not screeched, dog, I'm
not ac slater. Bro. You can't reach me with that mess.
That's a good idea, dude, And call me on a
modern smartphone, not a zacphone. All right, what's up? Everybody?
Looking forward to any more discussions about Saved by the Bell?
I want to get deep into now. See here we
go with with somebody sent me five hundred n z's okay.
Now that's gonna trip me out because you think.
Speaker 3: Oh shit, you're rich. Now, dude, you just got four hundred,
you got four hundred. Well, let's see what the conversion
rate for in this is. Did he actually give us money?
Speaker 1: Let's find out what's a nizz like three cents probably,
let's see, so half maybe he actually did let's say
four hundred nine nine niz. Well, thank you for the niz.
Speaker 15: Dude.
Speaker 1: He said five hundred niz, which comes to two hundred eight.
So he's winning the super chests. Shout out to my
New Zealand bros. All the nizzes. I don't know where
I'm gonna spend all these niz but thank you so
much to what was his name? Noos? Where'd it go?
Speaker 3: News company? See that, man understands. You take a religious
thing and you turn it into a brand.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. You create El Mundo church,
Lebota church, you create I forget what Randy Balls's church was,
but thank you so much, man, I appreciate that. That's
a very generous super chantes. He's pretty much paid the bills.
We could just call it a day if we want. Greg.
What's up man? See? I like that because I thought
it was yeah, like I thought it was gonna be
like Zimbabwe dollars, which is like you get a billion
of them and you think you're about to retire and
that comes out to like a subway sandwich or something.
What's up, man, I'm mute.
Speaker 2: Hey, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Man? What's on your mind?
Speaker 2: Then I saw this space. I just wanted to pop
in and talking about the Church is Israel. Yes, so
can you elaborate on that, because there's many ways you
could take that statement.
Speaker 1: In the sense of the traditional Orthodox Catholic Church is
the Israel of God of Galatians six sixteen.
Speaker 2: Oh, Okay, So you're basically saying it's like, is that
like super sessionism where the church is like the new Israel,
it's like replacing the nation of Israel.
Speaker 1: I think fulfillment is a better term than replacement, because
it's one faith all the way back to Noah, prior
to even Abraham. It's that same faith all the way
up into Romans fifteen, where Paul says that all the covenants,
whether the Mosaic or whether the Noaic, Thevidic, they're all
fulfilled in the person of Christ.
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense for me. I have a lot
of questions about Paul. I've always had questions about Paul,
and I know Protestants, they starting with Martin Luther, they
really venerate what Paul said. Most of the New Testaments
written by Paul and Luke. But for me, the person
of Jesus seems to be central right to Christianity, not Paul.
So the questions.
Speaker 1: But Paul preaches Jesus. So I don't see a conflict there.
What what specifically do you see as a conflict.
Speaker 2: I see a lot of conflicts between Paul and Jesus
myself personally.
Speaker 1: Okay, Like, what's an example.
Speaker 2: I'll give you many. I'll give you one example. Jesus said,
do not give care for tomorrow, for tomorrow will take
care of itself. Look at the lilies of the field.
Paul said, he who does not work does not eat.
And basically, you know, Jesus said letting men, no man
call himself father. Uh, And Paul says, I am your father.
Darth Vader also said.
Speaker 1: That, Okay, but I mean, doesn't you know does the
Ten Commandments say honor your father and your mother?
Speaker 2: Yeah, your biological father.
Speaker 1: Sure, Okay, So there's qualifications to it.
Speaker 2: Well, Jesus was talking about the iglesia the church, right, ecclesias. Uh.
He's talking about when you are all brothers in the
Church of Jesus and you all come together, when two
or more with you, I am among you. But he's
saying you all are equal.
Speaker 1: If someone was where did he say where? Did he
say where? Did he say you all are equal. You're
you're just saying that. Where did he say that?
Speaker 2: Well, he says, like this, if any one of you.
He said three things. First, he said, let no man
call himself father. Secondly, he said, if you want to
be the leader, you actually have to be the servant
of all. He's always talking about how to be the first.
You got to be the last. Right to find your life,
you have to deny your life. So like this idea
that I can. I can tell you many things where,
but essentially this is the big one. Jesus says. When
a young ruler asked him, how do I enter life?
Jesus said, follow the commandments. Follow the law. He said,
which law? Jesus says, you know, the one honor? You know.
He started to list the commandments. Do not kill, do
not steal your honor.
Speaker 1: He says, well, if you keep the first commandment, then
you will buy necessity to keep all of them. Right,
So love God first, right, let me find the words
of Jesus.
Speaker 2: One second.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Paul says the same thing Paul says in
Galatians that you have to keep the law too.
Speaker 2: This is the interesting thing Paul see Paul taught from
his own visions. Paul was converted on the road to Damascus.
He had a personal vision. I put him in the
same category myself personally. I put him in the same
category as Muhammad, in the sense that he had personal
visions that he interpreted were from God. And then he
went into the inner rooms, into the jail.
Speaker 1: Or the jailer. I understand that, right, I understand you
think that. In Galatians five six, he says the only
faith that counts as the one that works through love,
and he identifies the works are the works of the law.
So Paul doesn't say that you don't teach the law
or you keep the law. He says exact same thing
that Jesus says.
Speaker 2: Oh, I agree. So Paul wanted the Jews to keep
the law, continued to keep the law.
Speaker 1: Paul's writing to the church at Galatia, He's not writing
to the Jews there.
Speaker 2: So this is to unpack everything. So Jesus came only
to the lost sheep of Israel. When Jesus was approached
by a non Jewish woman, a gentile woman, as it
says in the New Testament, she said, please heal my daughter,
Jesus said, I was sent only to the last sheep
of Israel. She keeps telling him, Master, you know, I
please heal my daughter. He says, it is not.
Speaker 1: I'm aware he offered the Gospel was offered to the
Jews first, and Paul says the same thing to the
jew first, to the Greek. How is that? None of
that's a contradiction, Well.
Speaker 2: The first of all. Besides the contradictions, which I'll get
into more contradictions, but look at Paul. Paul comes after Jesus,
many years after Jesus. He was persecuting the students of Jesus.
Do you agree at that point he was persecuting them
before diverted in.
Speaker 19: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Then he went on the road and the desert. You know,
he might have got a sunstroke. Who knows, he might
have had epilepsy.
Speaker 1: We don't know.
Speaker 2: But what we do know is that he was struck
down on the road to Damascus. His companions didn't see
anything he did. And then he describes it as being
caught up to the seventh heaven. He says, here's what
he says. Paul, in his own words of the Galician, says,
I did not go to study with the students of Jesus.
I went to Arabia for three years for my own visions.
I taught for my own visions. He says himself. This
is what I have a problem with. If you believe
that Jesus appeared to why wouldn't you go study in
his church that he set up.
Speaker 1: Because the church isn't only located in Jerusalem. He was
received into the church if you read the Book of
Acts by people from the church, So you don't have
to go to Jerusalem to be received into the church.
Speaker 2: Well, in the Book of Acts, if you go to
Acts fifteen, he does go. Finally, after three years, he
goes and sees what he calls.
Speaker 1: A pillar, the inga. He says, I went after that
to go see Peter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he writes Galatians afterwards. But Luke is who writes
Acts fifteen, and he faithfully records that Paul gets chastised
by the pillars of the church. First he argues with them,
and then he gets told, if you read Acts twenty
one and Acts fifteen, he gets told, there's rumors about
you that you have been spreading. There's rumors people say
about you that you have been teaching the Jews not
to follow the law. So let show people there's no
truth in these rumors. Pay for these purification rights of
these you know Nazarenes, these sort of monks, right to
get their heads pure shape. And he does it. He
shows there is no truth in these rumors. So what
does that mean. He means he wasn't teaching Jews to
abandon the law. So you're right, Paul wasn't teaching Jews. Now,
Gentiles were never under the law, but Jews were. So
I don't think Paul was this radical guy I was
telling the Jews.
Speaker 1: Now, oh, so, I mean this refutes what you said
a minute ago that he you have a problem with Paul,
because now you're saying that he's saying what you say.
Speaker 2: Well, this is what I'm saying. What I'm saying is
Luke recorded Paul being chastised and Paul going along with
disproving these rumors. But then they give him a letter
which is in Acts fifteen, and they give him a
letter that basically invokes the Holy Spirit. It invokes the
entire authority of the Holy Spirit and says there's only
a few things we need you to do, Gentiles, and
that is abstained from meat.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is from the NOA Covenant so it's referring
back to the Noa Covenant because the argument exactly, the
argument is exact. If gentiles could be made righteous at
the time of Noah through those minimal requirements, we ought
to not expect more from them than was expected, then beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree that that's probably the Noaka Covenant. There
here's what I have a problem with. They told Paul
to spread these things, but when he goes to and
they give it to him and Barnabas, and then he
all argues with Barnabas also and then they part ways whatever.
Speaker 1: Fine, But then Paul when.
Speaker 2: He writes to the Galatians, he says, they did not
add anything to my message save that I remember the poor,
which I was anyway going to do all along. It's
like he never even tells the Galicians what they're he's
supposed to, which is that they're not supposed to meet sacrifice,
titles and all that stuff. He never delivers the message
of the pillars of the Church. This is what I
have a problem with.
Speaker 1: Well, hold on, hold on, we don't know that the
only thing that Paul taught or said to the Galatians,
which is what's in Galatia, right, he might have taught
other things. The apostles taught all kinds of things. For example,
Paul taught for three years, day and night at Ephesus,
and most of that was oral and not recorded, so
we only know what he told Timothy in a written form,
what's in the letters.
Speaker 2: So now look, he may have told him something outside
of these letters. But when he talks to the Corinthians
and others, he says, who are these super apostles. I'm
just as much of an apostle as these guys, And like,
the problem I have with this is, first of all,
Peter was supposed to be the apostle to the Gentiles
according to the Great Commission. He was supposed to go
to the Gentiles, and suddenly it's Paul. It's like the
whole thing was a switcheroo.
Speaker 1: Well Peter if yeah, Initially Peter speaks to the Gentiles,
but Peter then has an issue in Acts ten with
the ceremonial law and the food right, the unclean food.
So in that sense, Paul might be a better fit
providentially than Peter, because that's why Paul rebukes Peter at
the beginning of Galatians.
Speaker 2: Do you believe Jesus had prophecy and foresight, and he
appointed Peter to be.
Speaker 1: The Jesus is the son of God, so he has omniscions.
He's not a human person, he's a divine person with
the human nature.
Speaker 2: So well, even more so so then he would would
you say, Jesus made a mistake and it.
Speaker 1: Should have been Paul. No, but we have free will,
and even apostles have free will, so they're not control
like some kind of demonic possession or something. When they
write things, they have the ability to also make mistakes.
So Peter, even in the Gospels, makes mistakes and hence
he gets rebuked by Jesus when he's you know, Jesus says,
you know, you get behind me, Peter. He says later on,
you know, feed my sheep. Because that's a threefold response
to Peter's threefold denial. So there's no idea that apostles
aren't or like, morally impeccable, even though their theology might
be infallible.
Speaker 2: Well, listen, here's the thing. Yes, we all have free
freedom of choice. Absolutely. Sometimes God coerces prophet like Jonah.
You know, he wasn't going to go to Tarshesh and
then the fish ate him anyway, he was going to
go there, and he did finally prophesy how God wanted.
But you're right, a lot of times God uses people
like Joseph's brothers to fulfill something much greater, even though
they rebel. But what I am saying to you is
Jesus specifically chose Peter to be the rock upon which
his church was built. And the reason I have a
big problem with modern Christianity is this is based around Rome.
While they do claim that the seed of Peter is
in Rome, Jesus set up the church in Jerusalem. Jesus
set up his church so that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're Orthodox, so we would agree with the
error of thinking that everything is centered around Rome. So
I oppose Roman Catholicism. And in fact, in Matthew sixteen,
when he says that to Peter, two chapters later, he
says the exact same thing to the entire collogy of
the apostles. So we don't think that Peter has anything
more than a kind of mouthpiece role of the apostles.
He's not the super apostle, He's not above any of
the others in any sense beyond just being honored and
being given a kind of a gift, you could say,
by Christ here, but that same gift tw given to
all of them.
Speaker 2: Oh I like that. I like that. But basically, what
I'm basically saying is to you is this, even if
Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to everybody, even
if that happened, that in no way proves that Paul
a guy who lived decades later, never met the students
of Jesus for three years, studied from his own vision,
started his own churches, and then argued with you know,
his own students.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Well, how about I make
the argument this way, Like, in a roundabout way, I
could just simply say that the only way we even
know who wrote Matthew or any of these gospels is
by the tradition of the church, and the church historically
has received the Pauline epistles. So that tells me that's
all I need to know.
Speaker 2: Wait, you're saying just because the guys, So Muhammad also
was very successful.
Speaker 1: In stunning stuff. Right, It's a total false analogy. It's
nothing like Muhammed an't saying about success. I said the
actual source for how you would even know that Matthew
the Apostle wrote the Book of Matthew is the Church's tradition.
So you can't actually have knowledge of things like aposto
authorship or the canon of Scripture without the tradition and
history of the Church. So that's why it's not really
possible to pit Paul against everybody else, because the Church,
which is where we get all of these texts from,
has already accepted and received Paul.
Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying, But take a step back
for a second. Right, your starting point is the Church.
You're looking backwards through the lens of the.
Speaker 1: Church, right, Yeah, But you're doing the same thing though.
If you say that you're going to cite Matthew or
you're going to cite Paul's epistles, to even know that
those are Pauline texts or Matthew and texts, it assumes
the tradition of the church. I hear you.
Speaker 2: First of all, I never said that Matthew was written
by Matthew, or we don't know who wrote some of
these other things.
Speaker 1: Were okay, Well, then if we don't know the authorship,
then your arguments setting them against would also fail because
we don't know who wrote them. Your argument is premised
Your argument was premised on Luke writing acts, Luke writing
Luke Paul writing to the Galatians.
Speaker 2: No, no, we know that Luke wrote acts much better
than the anonymous authors of the Gospels, much better because
the Gospels were anonymous, whereas these these books call out
who they're written by. Luke wrote them.
Speaker 1: How do you know what Luke that is? That's begging
the question. Matthew says Matthew. But Matthew who There's only
one dude named Matthew in the first century.
Speaker 2: That's fair, But Luke says, I am a student of Paul,
I'm companion of Paul.
Speaker 1: Okay, But Gospel the Gnostic texts, say Thomas, Apostle of Christ.
You know so that there are you aware of the
pseudonymous writings?
Speaker 19: Yeah, I was.
Speaker 2: Gonna say, if you pull in all these pseudopigraphical stuff,
you're gonna have to talk about Marcian and the heretics
of you know, Sinepe. You're gonna have to talk about
Ireneus and the four Gospels. He argued that there has
to be exactly four Gospels because there are four wins.
Do you understand how flimsy the argument did?
Speaker 1: I make an argument that the canon is known from Ireneus.
I never said that. So you're going all over the
place to get away from that argument.
Speaker 2: Was formed, It was formed.
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't. No, it wasn't. There was no a
canon explicitly universally at the time of IRUs Iraineus thought
that that might work, and he made various arguments. He
didn't dis argue from weird things. But the fact that
he made a weird argument, that's what is. How does
that disprove anything that I said about.
Speaker 2: What you're saying. I'm asking a question and my only
so I have two main questions. One of them is
even if Jesus rose from the dead, and the christological
argument that let's say William Lane Craig puts forth right,
you let's say give a hundred percent to that. Okay,
let's say proven that Jesus the Son of God raised
by God from the dead. Okay, what does that have
to do with Paul at all?
Speaker 1: Well? I would argue that the worldview is a holistic thing.
It's not a piecemeal thing. So you could go with
this piecemeal approach. But if you're going to go with
the piecemeal approach, then we would evolve into the arguments
that I was making about how you couldn't even know
who wrote what text. So you can't even argue that
Luke wrote Luke without arguing that the church preserved the
text that Luke wrote. Nobody has autographa right, Let's say.
Speaker 2: I agree with your argument. So that means we're in
a world where we are lost and we don't know
who wrote what, so but that we have to be okay.
Speaker 1: Well, then all of your arguments against Paul fall apart
because you don't know any of the authorship.
Speaker 2: No, my argument against Paul is there is not a
single place outside of his own writings and those of
his buddy Luke.
Speaker 1: But your argument was premised on Luke being the author
of Luke an Axe.
Speaker 3: No, let's say he wasn't.
Speaker 2: Let's say he wasn't. Let's say it was.
Speaker 1: We don't know.
Speaker 2: Let's say we don't know. I'm saying, if you if
you remove for a moment everything written by Paul according
to Paul himself, which is his letters, and everything written
by Luke according to what it says there you remove,
that's most of the New Testament. What you're left with
doesn't mention Paul or Luke at all except in one place,
so at all at all and.
Speaker 1: The one So this is just presupposing your position.
Speaker 2: So what No, I'm bringing evidence for what I'm saying.
I'm saying that it's circular authority that he gives to himself.
Every time he writes a letter, he's saying, I am
equal to the superpostles. They add nothing to my message.
Listen to me. And then he says, these other men
came to lead you astray. Don't listen to those guys.
Listen to me. I am your father.
Speaker 1: But in none of this have I ever actually heard
a real clear, coherent reason as to why Paul is
wrong or not an apostle. I just heard some gripes
with I didn't like the fact that he said. But
then when we actually got in the Galatians, he was like, yeah,
I'm a problem with that. So it's like, what exactly
is the problem I don't understand?
Speaker 2: Well, I have several. I'll start with the first one.
The first one is I don't like circular authority. Someone
gives him self authority and then later, thousands of years later,
you go, well, what's what's the problem. The problem is
you're supposed to give me properly rooted authority in a guy,
Why should I just accept it because he said it?
Speaker 1: Well, we don't accept Paul's authority just because Paul said it.
I argued that it's all part of a package deal.
It's an entire worldview. So if Paul's false Christianity is false,
the whole thing falls apart. There is no Christianity, only
Pauline Christianity. Only Pauline Christianity is what other one is there?
Speaker 9: Oh?
Speaker 2: My goodness, there are many studies of the life of Jesus.
For example, I'll give you one that I find.
Speaker 1: You see, this is all academic. I'm saying Christianity is
a religion with a liturgy and a history and a
lived community. What other Christianity? Not some scholars theory? What
other Christianity is there other than this? Though?
Speaker 2: Well that's what orthodox Jews say that they're the only
ones left, you know, and the Samaritans are gone, so
therefore they must be correct because they're the only link
to the past. Right, So you're saying the same thing kind.
Speaker 1: Of Oh, I see, we're saying yeah, no, yeah, I
would as an orthodox Christian, I would say yes, not
argument holes not for Orthodox Jews, but for us.
Speaker 2: Well, why the same Orthodox Jew said, don't listen to
those sects that you know faded away, listen to the
ones that are still around.
Speaker 1: Right right, Okay, Well, because we have predictions and prophecies
that the Church can't die. So if the Church died out,
if the true Church was some group of say Nazarenes
in the early early centuries, and then it died out
and then we're going to resurrect it from some scholar,
then the prophecies and predictions of the nations being converted
to Christ, to worship the God of Israel, et cetera.
All these you know, Isaiah prophecies and prophecies, and the
psalms about the Gentiles, Gus talking about you know, the
gates of Hell not prevailing against the Church. All of
those things would fail if the true Church was some
you know, third century Nazarite cult or something.
Speaker 2: Okay, interesting, because then that brings that brings up two
major things. One is Jeremiah thirty one. Jeremiah thirty one
says I I love to read the end of it verbatim,
but it basically says until the sun and the moon
and the ocean and the earth vanish from my sight.
My decrees will never vanish. Right, and God says Israel
the nation of Israel. At that time it was the
nation of Israel, not the Church, it says, will it
will always be a nation before me? Hold on, let
me let me read it directly. I just want to.
I don't want to say the wrong thing. Hold on
Jeremiah thirty one.
Speaker 1: Now, I know, yeah, we just we just read this
on a couple of days ago. I'm not saying if
I read verse sure.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, all right. This is I'm reading thirty
five of verse thirty five onwards to the end. This
is what the Lord says, He who appoints the sun
to shine by day, who decrees the moon and starts
to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so
that its waves roar, The Lord Almighty is his name.
Only of these decrees vanished from my sight, declares the Lord.
Will Israel ever cease to be cease being a nation
before me? This is what the Lord says. Only of
the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of
the earth below searched out. Will I reject the descendants
of Israel? Because of all they have done, declares the Lord.
And this is the last few verses. The days are coming,
declares the Lord. When this city will be rebuilt for me,
meaning the city of Jerusalem, from the tower of Hananel
to the corner gate. The measuring line will stretch from
there straight to the Kail of Goap. It's very specific,
and turned to Goah. The whole valley where the dead
bodies and ashes are thrown, and the terraces out to
the Kidrun valley in the east, which is by the
way in Jerusalem east. As far as the corner of
the horse gate will be hould to the Lord. And
this is the most important part. The city will never
again be appruded or demolished. So by your logic, if
the profits are correct, Israel will be rebuilt, and there
will be a city there will Jerusalem. It will never
be appruded or demolished, and the nation of Israel will
never cease to be a nation. So before the.
Speaker 1: Lord, Jeremiah is talking about in the immediate context the
return from captivity and the rebuilding that occurred. If you
go to Jeremiah thirty three, go a couple chapters over, but.
Speaker 2: It says the city will never again.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna explain that. Go to Jeremiah thirty three. Okay,
the days are coming, he says, when this is verse fourteen,
I will perform the good thing which I promised to
Israel and to Judah in those days. At that time
I will cause to grow up to David a branch
of righteousness. He will execute judgment and righteouness in the earth.
In those days you will be saved, and Jerusalm will
dwell safely. This is the name that she will be called,
the Lord our righteousness. For thus says the Lord, David,
will never lack a man to sit on the throne
of the House of Israel, nor the priest, nor the levites,
nor anyone to lack norther levice, lack a man to
offer burnt offering before me, or kindle the green offerings
and the sacrifice continually. This is the work of the Lord.
This is the word Lord, the King. To Jeremiah, says,
if you can break my covenant with day and night.
So it's parallel with the reference to the promises of
providence and the noea covenant in thirty three, that we
just continue, Yeah, that you just don't what you just
read in thirty one is also referencing the NOEA covenant, right,
So both of these statements are making a promise about
when this will occur and when this will never be forgotten.
There will never cease to be what descendants of David
sitting on the throne from the time of Jeremiah after
seventy a d have there been a lack of descendants
on David's.
Speaker 2: Throne, of course, And this is why I'm saying so.
Speaker 1: The fulfillment is the resurrection of Christ. Psalm one, the
Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies your footstool. The Lord will
send the rod of your strength out of Zion rule
in the midst of your enemies. The predictions in both
of these passages are to the church that Jesus established,
and that's why when he ascended an Acts and the
New Testament, every time it cites one ten, it cites
Palm one ten about his ascension as the beginning of
his reign in Zion. Zion is the Church.
Speaker 2: So I just want to understand your position first and
steal man your position right before I respond. So you're
saying that Jesus is sort of a substitution for these prophecies.
Speaker 1: Meaning He is the prophecy.
Speaker 2: He is the prophecy. So when it says that you
know the reason I read the measuring line and the
gate and the valley, the Kidron valley, these are very specific.
Speaker 1: God is the specifics, right, the specifics referred to when
the Jews return from Babylonian captivity. That's the historical immediate context, right.
The fulfillment is the Messianic fulfillment. Disagree, Okay, I got it.
I know you don't believe it. But the Messianic fulfillment
is just like when Jesus is arguing with the Pharisees
and Jesus says, then who is David talking to when
he says, my Lord said the Lord said to my
Lord in some one ten. I'm saying, it's the same
principle in Jeremiah thirty three that David will never lack
a man to sit on the throne. How is that
fulfilled if after seventy a d there's no dividic throne. Well,
turns out Jesus has been on the throne. He's the
son of David, and he's been reigning since his ascension
and he will always reign. That's how he will never
lack him in it.
Speaker 2: I understand your interpretation, and it has a few things
going for it, right, like the fact that Jews don't
have sacrifices for the last two thousand years either.
Speaker 1: Well, it's also Genesis. It's also Genesis forty nine, which
says that right until Shiloh comes, right there will not
be the scepter will not depart from Judah until the
lawgiver comes.
Speaker 2: All right, but let me tell you what an alternative
interpretation that fits everything. And in fact Christians believe this
one also, and that is in the future, maybe the
near future, who knows, because Israel has been sort of
constituted now and nobody could have believed it two hundred
years ago. That there will be everything will be rebuilt,
as it says in Jeremiah thirty one, and the third
Temple will be there and the sacrifices will come, and
from that point on it will never be approuded or
meaning it hasn't happened yet obviously, because until now it
has been approuded demolished, And you're right, there hasn't been
people sitting on the throne. What the prophecy may be about,
and a lot of these prophecies have been could have
been in the far future, which hasn't even happened yet,
just like Jesus prophecies as well well.
Speaker 1: But if you look at Luke twenty one, Jesus is
talking about the destruction of the Temple. It's very clear
because that was written to Gentiles. It's not talking about
primarily the end of the world. I think the Temple
is a type of the whole universe. So there's a
three tier structure to the Temple, and that's why Hebrews
says that when the high priest goes into the Holy
of Holies on the day of Atonement, that's a type,
according to the author of Hebrews, of Christ ascending into
the third heavens, the Holy of Holies, God's throne. So
in that sense, the destruction of the Temple in seventy
eighty is a foreshadowing of the destruction of the universe.
I would say, but why does Genesis to go along
with this theme of fulfillment at the First Advent. Why
does Genesis say that the scepter will not depart from
Judah until the Lawgiver comes, until Shiloh comes.
Speaker 2: Because I'll tell you, first of all, Shiloh was already
it was an earlier time than Jesus. It was about
a thousand years before Shiloh was a city, and the
ark was in Shiloh. But before that Judah was. Remember,
each of the tribes got a place, got a piece
of land, right, okay, And so the Ark of the
Covenant would travel. Each of the brothers got something. So
when it says that the scepter wouldn't depart from Judah,
it can mean one of two things. It can mean
that no other tribe or a descendant could be a king.
So it couldn't be that suddenly, you know, some other
lineage would become king. In fact, Jesus the biographers had
to go and find the lineage for him exactly for
that reason, because we know that every king of Israel
has to go from David. Now, are there gonna be
periods where there won't be anyone on the throne, of course,
but there will be someone on the throne. It has
to be a descendant, and that's what it means.
Speaker 1: Well, But isn't it interesting that, like Daniel nine says
that when he came, there's an end, he's cut off.
There's an end to sacrifice, just like in Genesis forty nine,
the lawgiver, the dividic kingdom ends.
Speaker 2: There's no more dividing anything that is in the first
five books, which is the Torah you got the Sadducees. Sorry,
this is the Samaritans have a Pentateuch, which they only
believe those five books. They don't believe the prophet right,
and this is the time of Jesus. By the way,
I'm just telling the listeners who might not be aware
of this. During the time of Jesus, the Northern Kingdom
was filled with Samaritans. Even today it's called Samaria, Judah
and Samaria by the Jews, which is interesting because the
Samaritans were like numbering maybe a million people, and so
these people did not believe in the prophets or the
other book, so they just believed in the five books.
My point is this, those five books they say that
there will be a king, but they're also leave it
open like there might not be a king because Samuel
told Israel that, you know, guys, maybe you shouldn't have.
Speaker 1: A king at all. So I mean, look, it is
do you do you think like as far as I'm aware.
I mean, I have rabbinic commentaries and you know, Jewish
study Bible, this kind of stuff, Like, do you think
that Genesis forty nine ten is a Messianic prophecy?
Speaker 2: Let me look at it, Genesis forty nine to ten. Sorry,
I'm not familiar with everything that passage. Yeah, okay, that
the rulers staff between his feet. Okay, so this is
where Israel? Who is Jacob?
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like, classic Judaism saw this as a
messian prophecy, right, It's in the targems, this is scena
maybe yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but remember that all these later generations, including the Talmud,
they look at this and the genres of sort of
like one hundred years of this genre. On hundred years
of that genre. It's had a genre called Yeah, it's
like ex of Jesus. Everyone's got their ex Jesus, right,
And so these are men, these are men, and you
you as Christians, agree that these are men trying to
understand these scriptures correct.
Speaker 1: Well and argue it's Jesus that is the god of
the Old Testament and he's the one that's inspiring these
people to write this stuff. So no, I don't I mean, yeah,
men are writing these things. I don't think that it's
that there's no human synergy or anything going on, but
it's ultimately I think a divine inspiration.
Speaker 2: Well, it's hard to say because there were so many
different sects.
Speaker 1: At the time of Jesus. Okay, well, look, I mean
all right, so basically in this view, then we can
make this into anything. This is where it gets into
like a This is almost like the way Muslims do
or Jews do with the Talmud, to the Muslims with
the Hadids, Like we can really craft this into anything.
Speaker 2: Right, I don't want to craft No, I don't even
go by evidence. Right, And remember what I said in
the beginning how we got into this. I said, I
have two problems. One is, you said, according to the prophecies,
we have to take it seriously. I brought up Jeremiah
thirty one to show that he predicts stuff that hasn't
happened yet. It couldn't have happened yet because the physical Yeah.
Speaker 1: And then when I well, hold on, but then when
I show you the same wording two chapters later that
David will never lack a man, you say, oh, well,
but then we can have situations where that doesn't really
mean David never lacks a man. So in other words,
you can interpret it well.
Speaker 2: I just want to be clear from that point on,
David will not lack a man. From the point where
the third Temple is rebuilt and the city is rebuilt,
from that point it will never be approveded. So logically
it hasn't happened yet because it has been approveded, so
there must.
Speaker 1: It must be in the future or or the fulfillment
is the ascension of Christ. And that's how God kept
the covenant and never denied the covenant. Even though he
said in Jeremiah three and in Joseiah two that he
would divorce Israel. When was the divorce? So when was
the divorce?
Speaker 2: First of all, he never he never said I will
reject Israel.
Speaker 1: No, no divorce, you said, you said, He never said that. No.
Speaker 2: No. God says over and over that he will gather
Israel back from the furthest parts of the euroe.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking I know the promises of return. I'm
talking about the statements of divorce. What are the How
do you interpret those?
Speaker 2: Can you give me the exact versus reject.
Speaker 1: Jeremy the first one is Jeremiah three to eight.
Speaker 2: Okay, Jeremiah was made to marry a prostitute.
Speaker 1: And so now Jeremiah, don't.
Speaker 2: No, but I'm saying, I'm giving you the context. Jeremiah
was even told by the Lord to marry a prostitute,
if I remember correct.
Speaker 1: Now, Jeremiah's Hoseiah jose Oh, I'm so sorry. All right,
But Hoseiah is the other text that says that God
will divorce Israel. There's two passages there.
Speaker 2: You go, look, it's an imagery, just like Jesus was
giving imagery about plucking an eye out for having your
old body.
Speaker 1: Okay, but what I'm saying is that your interpretation says, well,
it's just imagery. My interpretation actually explains how there was
a divorce, but also God kept faithful because the real
Israel is those who have faith in Christ. That fulfills
Genesis twelve that all the nations are blessed in abraham seed.
If Abraham's seed ultimately is those who have faith in Yahweh,
not just biological descent, then that fulfills both the passages
of Jeremiah thirty three and Jeremiah three and Joseiah two
of a divorce for.
Speaker 2: While, I'm happy for more people to have faith in
God and to follow his commandments, even if said no
hide commandments, I'm very happy about that. So that's a
good thing. All I'm saying is that you got to
understand in the time of Jeremiah what was happening. There
was an exile, the Jews were worried that they might
not return, and in Jeremiah saying, hey, God is currently
mad at you. He's faithful to you, so you are
the one who has broken the covenant. So in his time,
he's not thinking about Jesus. It could be later you
could say maybe it's a prototype.
Speaker 1: Of Jesus war. I'm saying, okay, but I'm not saying
that Jeremi is immediately thinking of Jesus when he says
that you will be divorced. It's You're correct that during
the period of exile in the babylon in captivity, there
is this concern have we been forsaken? And Jeremi is
using the language of Deuteronomy twenty four of the Bill
of Divorce when God says that a man who wants
to find that his wife is unfaithful, he can give
her a bill of divorce. And so forth. So the
language of Deuteronomi twenty four is being used in Jeremiah
three to say you've been unfaithful, You're going to be divorced.
Now they're brought back to the land, so they're not
at this stage divorced. What I'm saying is that in
the Christian interpretation, in the passage, like Matthew twenty three,
Jesus says that because Israel is rejecting her living horror
of the Messiah, and let's say for the sake of argument,
that Jesus is the Messiah, then the fullness of the
sins from all of these passages, including not just the
predictions of salvation and restoration, but also the Covenant sanctions,
the Bill of Divorce, the warnings come to their full fruition.
That's why seventy eighty leads to the destruction of Jerusalem, which,
if you're consistent and you believe in the Covenant curses
of Deuteronomy and Leviticus, then clearly, whatever you think of Jesus,
there had to have also been a cursing in diaspora
in seventy eighty, which is Covenant curses. So it would
be yet another statement of Jeremiah three Bill of Divorce. Right,
So if at the battle I see where you're.
Speaker 2: I see where you're coming from. And I agree about
the junomy predictions of expulsion and then later gathering when
the Jews return spiritually to God right in their distant lands.
But again, I want to ask you when when Jeremiah
says thirty one, verse thirty seven, he says, this is
what the Lord says. Only if the heavens above can
be measured in the foundations of the earth below searched out,
will I ever reject the descendance of Israel because of
all they have done the Lord?
Speaker 1: And I'm saying that that I'm saying that that promise
was always to those that had the true faith and
not merely the biological descent. So you're saying that ultimately
that's to the biological descent. I'm saying no, No, it's ultimately
to those who have the faith of God and love Him.
And that's not just Jewish people, because it's also before Abraham.
It's people like Noah. So they're all part of that
heavenly city. They're all part of the same faith.
Speaker 2: This is I think we should get into this topic
because this was your original topic, like the super sessionism, right,
the truth.
Speaker 1: It's a fulfillment. It's not a superseding. It's literally like
it's it's more like a te lo ort, a purpose,
like you know, culmination, more so than like fulfillment. Fulfillment
is a good word.
Speaker 2: I'll get to that word fulfillment because it's used when
Jesus talks about I'll read the read letter Bible of
Jesus next. But I just want to get onto this
for a second.
Speaker 1: Let's let's make it. Let's we got let's We've got
a lot of people, so let's do this one. No,
you can make this last argument. Go ahead and make
your last argument. I'll give you the final word here
and then we'll take the next scholars. But it was
a really great discussion, discussion. I want you to call
back in if you want to sometime, but we're going
to move on to the other one. What's that? Thank you?
Speaker 2: Thank you? Okay, follow me?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love this.
Speaker 2: I'm a Jewish person, but I do believe in Jesus
being the Messiah. I you know, I'm a monotheist, so
I don't think that Jesus is God. But I don't
think Jesus claimed to be God. But anyways, give me
sixty seconds, I'll try to.
Speaker 1: Get my point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you look at all the Torah, the five
Books of Moses, or you know, the first five books,
it always talks about biological sentence.
Speaker 1: The word door means generation.
Speaker 2: This is a statute for all generations means biological generations.
Obviously when it talks about you know, the generations after Noah,
and it counts a number of years, So this is
talking about physical biological generations. Jeremiah thirty one talks about
physical places like the value the kidrun valley and how
this will be rebuilt to this you know, over here,
and it will.
Speaker 1: Never be appruded.
Speaker 2: So to me, I mean I read this literally. I
think that it hasn't happened yet because it has been uprooted,
but in the future it hasn't. Now. Christians believe that
Jesus came on a donkey, and he will come on
the clouds of glory in the future. Jews also believe
that the Messiah will come either on a donkey or
on the clouds of glory, and I like to tell
them he's going to come on both. He came once
on a donkey. Next time he's going to come on
the clouds of glory. Here's where I have an issue
with the whole Christianity. When I said Christianity, I mean
the church that came up later. Here's including Orthox Church.
Speaker 1: Here's what I have a problem with.
Speaker 2: The church that Jesus himself set up in Jerusalem was
also unfortunately destroyed when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and they
fade into history. So in other words, James the brother
of Jesus Jacobosen Greek. You know, yeah, his children are
kind of ruling.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, this is moving on to other arguments.
So I got your point about the biological descendants, and
I agree that the immediate contexts at the time of
you know, the promise to Abraham, God is really saying
that your descendants, through you know, Isaac, you know, et cetera,
not through Ishmael, that will be the covenant. Just like
if you go back prior to it being a tribe,
it was a family. So with Noah it was his household.
Prior to that it was Adam and Eve and their children.
So I'm not denying the actual literal, historical biological element,
but I'm saying that even amongst the biological elements. It
is not all Israel that is Israel, as Paul says,
so it would still be even in the time of
Jeremiah when he rebukes the Jews, he says, circumcise your hearts. Right,
That's the same point that Paul makes when he talks
about the purpose of baptism is to show that you
have actually circumcised your heart. So it was always the
case that you needed to circumcise your heart. That was
the only thing that that's what really saved you, so
to speak. Even though yes, of course it is the
flesh descendants of Abraham that make up the nation of Israel.
Who is the covenant when it goes from family or
from household to tribe to nation, right, And we have
a national covenant, you could say with Moses. I don't
deny that. But it's not just the nation state that
saves you. The nation state is the preparation for the
next phase, which is the opening of that up to
the Gentiles. And I think that let me let me
leave you with.
Speaker 2: This one question. Let me just set it up. It'll
take me last sixty seconds.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's very important.
Speaker 2: I believe that the Jewish Mosaic Covenant was given to
the Jews for all generations. Many of the laws. It says,
you must do this for all generations, physical generations. Now,
Jesus said, I came to the law sheep of Israel.
And in Matthew five, this is the key. He says,
do not think I have come to abolish the law
or the prophets. I have come not to abolish, but
to fulfill them. And the key to me is the
original Greek word fulfill, because it's not the same word
as when Jesus dies on a cross and says everything
tell us to lie. Everything is accomplished, everything is fulfilled.
So it's translated in English as saying, but it's actually
a different word. So here's my point. Jesus says, for
I truly tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not
the smallest letter, not this least stroke of a pen,
but by any means, disappear from the law, until everything
is accomplished. Therefore, anyone who sets aside the least of
these commands, it teaches others accordingly, like Paul said, the
law is obsoletes et cetera, will be called the least,
and they can them of heaven, meaning they'll get into heaven,
but they will be the least there. And whoever practices
and teaches these commands will be called great in the
Kingdom of Heaven.
Speaker 1: Understand.
Speaker 2: And so the last thing I want to say is this,
I think that the Gentiles were never supposed to do
everything that the Jews were supposed to do, right. I
think the Jews were taught by Jesus to basically be
more merciful, be more thankful for all the mercies of
their God that they don't deserve. But Jesus never said that,
you know, just believe solo fete, just believe in me
he saved. He said, you've got to follow the law anyway, right.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and we agree with that. Where we disagree
on that point, I thank you for your call. Is
the way that the law is kept is what changes,
not that the law is useless or worthless. For example,
when Paul writes his epistles I'm just using this as
an example, he goes to the uh, you know law,
the ceremonial laws that deal with like not sowing too
patches of garments, not sowing two seeds in a field,
and he says those are pedagogical things that even the
gentile church can learn from in terms of morals and
not being unequally yoked. So politics, even the ceremonial commands
and applies them even to the gentiles in a spiritual way.
And that's what we would say as Orthodox Christians, is that, yes,
you're correct, that you cannot say Leviticus doesn't matter, Deuterami
doesn't matter. In fact, if you look at Revelation two
and three, the Covenant curse language and blessing language is
applied to the seven churches of Asia Minor. So when
Jesus talks to the seven churches, he says, if you
do this, you will be blessed. If you do this,
I will come quickly bring a cursing in judgment, just
like what you read in Deuteronomy and Leviticus. So the
Covenant cursing and the Covenant blessings. So I would disagree
though that the Orthodox Church is some later invention if
you watch this documentary that we made. Actually, I think
that the real messy Judaism is actually Orthodox Christianity. And
that's the purpose of this documentary. It's called Christian worship.
In the Old Testament. Everything that the Church does is
literally crafted, we believe, by the apostles from the Temple
liturgy and the Synagogue liturgy service. It's combined into an
Orthodox Christian worship service, the Divine Liturgy. That's the pattern
of worship that you see when you read Cyprian or
Justin Martyr or Irenaeus or any of these church fallows
when they discuss the pattern of worship and the liturgy.
So everybody should, if you're interested in this question, watch
that documentary. But the last point on the heaven and
earth passing away, ultimately the law is fulfilled in the
person of Christ. We think he is the living Torah.
But when he says to not think of it as
going away until having earth go away, there was a
sense in which heaven and earth went away when the
Temple was destroyed. So in our view in seventy a d.
When he talks about the destruction of the Temple in
Luke twenty one, which happens years later, there is a
sense in which if you read Hebrews, and I know
that guy's not going to like Hebrews. But Paul, assuming
he wrote Hebrews, discusses the temple again like a miniature
of the universe. So when the Temple was destroyed, it
is like the heavens and the earth being rolled up
like a stroll and being done away with. Doesn't mean
that we don't look to Leviticus or whatever to find
spiritual principles. We do, and that's what Paul does in
his epistles. But as he pointed out correctly, the expectation
was never that the Gentiles were supposed to follow the
Jewish ceremonial laws per se as at least as they're
done by the Jews. Like you can't keep the Jubilee
laws if you're in Mexico, right, because the laws pertain
to the land, so the laws for the land of Israel.
That's why the Church in Acts fifteen chose the basic
Noea covenant principles for the reception of gentiles into the Church.
But that church didn't die out, it wasn't destroyed. It
becomes some weird Nazarene sect. It is the Church of
the first, second, and third century, and the Orthodox Church
teaches the exact same thing as that church. Now in
terms of whether Jesus was divine and whether he's the
God of the Old Testament, you can look at all
of the trinitarian discussions and lectures that we have right here,
for example, is this is part one. This is the
Trinity in the Torah. So there's that one. Then I
have another one, which is three hour talk on Theophanes.
That's not it. I can never remember what I titled
these videos. By the way, this is also a good one.
The Jewish Trinity. This would be a good one. This
was the opening statement for the Daniel Hookee get you debate.
Let me see. Oh I know what it is. Yeah,
it's this one right here from seven years ago. Is
Jesus God is God Triune. This goes through many of
the other Theophany passages and Angel of the Lord passages
in the Old Testament. So there's that one. Anyway, it
was a great discussion there. Enjoyed that back and forth.
We got. Let me see, we got quite a few
super chests. Let me catch up on that because we've
got so many of those. Cody five dollars.
Speaker 3: I started watching it in the wait wait, wait bird
ten dollars. Awesome congresation conversation with Greg. For those that
say that you're mean, BASI realize that when smart people
actually have something to say, you will listen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. I mean that was a good discussion,
even though I disagree with the arguments, Like we had
a good discussion bird the Storm of the cat ten dollars.
Anthony Westgate run an article about the Messianic so called
Messianic Jews. They don't worship a real Christ, although on
a surface level they sound like they do. There is
lots of Kabbala in it. Yeah. Well, the thing with
the Messianic Judaism is that it's all over the place.
You can have like Trinitarian Messianic Jews. You know, we
have our friend ken Ami is a Trinitarian Messianic Jew
who's written several books, Is Usus the Messiah. That's that's
a great one by ken Amy, and that, by the way,
would be good for this discussion that we just had,
right is his book because he actually goes to a
lot of the early Rabbinic sources which most of us
don't know about. Is Jesus the Messiah a Judaism versus
Judaism debate. This is a good book for the topics
that we just covered today. If you don't have especially
for a lot of us who don't know, you know,
the specifics of Jewish texts.
Speaker 3: He does, and he's good at that. So that's a
good book for this.
Speaker 1: But then, like you said, yeah, you've got Messianic groups
that are anti Trinitarian. It's all over the place. There's
not really a single Messianic movement per se Sanjoya Savage
five dollars. By the way, the one of the founders
of it became Orthodox, remember that, one of the founders
of and he just passed away, but he was always
nice to me, by the way, He's sent some very
kind messages my way. Father Bernstein, if you don't know
Father James Bernstein, who passed away, I think last year,
and he was I think in the Antiochian Church. But yeah,
he passed away in twenty twenty four. But I think
he was one of the co founders of Jews for Jesus.
I think something like that. Am I right about that?
I can't remember. I have his book, but I haven't
gotten around. I didn't read it yet. Says he was. Yes,
he helped found Jews for Jesus in San Francisco, was
received in the Orthodox Church in the nineteen eighties. He
got his ENDIV and he was a.
Speaker 3: Contributor by the way, to the Orthodox Study Bible, So
I don't even know he was one of the contributors,
but the notes are really good.
Speaker 1: By the way. So that's real Messianic Judaism. It's like, right,
he became Orthodox exactly. That's that's what I was arguing.
But anyway, Daniel would be too. Oh yeah. Also if
you didn't if you don't remember the opening argument against
Daniel Hoikikachu in the Muslim debate, there's that right there.
What's up, Jr? What's on your mind?
Speaker 25: So many Protestants would be it would be good for
them to pick up a copy of the book. We
always mention Yarislav Pelicans the emergence of the Catholic tradition
because on page one eighteen and one nineteen he.
Speaker 1: Specifically talks about it.
Speaker 25: Now, remember he's a Lutheran at the time of writing this,
but even he realizes and points out that scripture and
tradition are hand in hand with each other. It says
here that the church fathers denied Heretics any legitimate claim
to the criterion of the Scripture because Tertullian demanded that
Marcion produce a Marciani church that could trace its descendants
from the apostles and a.
Speaker 1: List of bishops.
Speaker 25: Yes, it also says that when Cyprian is quoting Matthew
sixteen eighteen, he also adds the caveat It means that
the church was built on Peter, but also gave a
similar power that was entrusted to other apostles. Eusebius writes
an ecclesiastical history, the succession of the Church is from
the Holy Apostles.
Speaker 1: So there's early episode of succession admitted by a Lutheran
who ended up Orthodox exactly.
Speaker 25: So that whole section right there of that book is
probably about page one sixteen to about page one does
away with any idea of any early church, low Church, yes,
and Protestantism. It's it's all right there in that book.
Speaker 1: To pick that book up. Yeah, this is a classic,
of course. I mean it's even here at the SA
Vladimir's website. I mean, pretty much anybody in seminary, whether
you're Reformed, Orthodox, and even Roman Catholics, Lutherans, this is
pretty much the universally used, you know, history of Christian
theology set. I've read the first four volumes of it.
The last one I don't really care about modern Carl
Bart and all these kinds of people. So really the
first four of the most relevant. It is a really
great series. I've also I've read also his book on
natural theology and the Cappadocians as a classic metamorphosis of
natural theology. Also his book Whose Bible which tradition is
really good on the history of the Canon.
Speaker 25: That's the book that the Jews should read. Whose Bible
is it? Anyway?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And by the way, if you don't have
that says to the Pelicon book, I did a talk
on volume one, so if you go to I think
I called it. What did I call this? There's a
full lecture here. It is gnostics charismatics in early Christian heresies.
This talk I did six years ago is on volume
one that John is talking about from Pelicon. If you
are not able to get the book, I recommend definitely
getting in reading it. But if you're not able to,
there is my talk on it. Let's see, we got
a lot of super jest so joya savage, Sam joya savage,
Lizzy will not debate. Well, I wasn't trying to debate
Lizzie because she DMed me and said that or the
are mean to her, and I was like, well, I
won't be mean. You can just have a conversation. And
she said, okay, I'll come converse sometimes. So I don't
see her in here, but maybe one time, one day
she'll come converse. I don't know. She decided she thinks
Orthodoxy's pagan. Andrew and Rachel debated her. She lost everyone
in the sewing circles acts the same. I cono class
five dollars. I interacted with an evangelical dude. He said,
says Orthodoxy could not be right because I couldn't explain
the invisible Church and how it contradicts I don't understand.
Then he got oh, he couldn't explain that. Yeah, because
there's like thirty thousand different sects which are the church.
Then he got upset, said orthodox doesn't validate that. Seems
like everyone is part of the church. Well, I mean
we just saw in Timothy, right, remember at the beginning
of the stream, we looked at the first Timothy, and
Paul says, Hymenaeus and Phelidus, who say that the resurrection
is already happened, they're not part of the church. So
so no, not everybody is part of the church. Right,
because Paul specifically, it tells Timbothy in chapter one, those
guys claiming to be Christians there in emphasis, who says
the resurrections already happened. They're not part of the church.
So there's one example. But like when Paul writes to Ephesus,
he only writes to that church. He doesn't write to
the all the sects in Ephesus. He only writes to
the church in Ephesus. Orthozowski five dollars. This is good
and all. But we was kings or where we Israelites
or where we star seeds? All the above? Dude? Did
you not see my live streams where we watched the moonbeaver? Dude,
it's all the above. Bro, you're trying to set up
false dialectics. This is all the above. Julio, Marita, Jay debate,
Ken Wheeler. I don't every day you guys, I'm not
mad because I think it's funny. Every day debate this dude,
debate this dude. Wait this dude, Wait this dude. I'm
not mad. I think it's funny, So don't get your
feelings hurt. Oh this guy the theorya APPA faces this guy,
Uh yeah, he's like a neo platonic Buddhist guy. I mean,
I don't usually these kinds of sort of eccentric philosophy people,
they don't usually do debates. I've never seen that guy
do a debate. I mean, he's he's an intelligent dude.
He's all into like camera optics and studying light and stuff,
which is which is cool. But I don't really think
he does debates, or at least if he does, I
haven't seen any. He has his own community. They say,
you'll have to reach out to him. This would be
the debate of the century. Well, I mean, I appreciate
you thinking of me, but nobody is going to watch that.
There's like, there's like probably five thousand spergs out there
that will actually watch and care about.
Speaker 25: That because of the suffragette and radical feminist movement had
See That's that's another weird thing at that time period,
is that what you would consider, you know, quasi right
wing Christian conservatism at the time was actually connected to
feminism and suffragette movement, even so much that some of
them were eugenics proponents.
Speaker 1: Interesting so so.
Speaker 25: Early early Protestant movements were pro eugenics because obviously, you know,
bad people who do bad stuff needed to you know.
Speaker 1: Be sterilized.
Speaker 25: Yeah, so a lot of that is connected with early
Protestant It is him as well.
Speaker 2: But another thing too is.
Speaker 25: Aaron As in the time of Marcian I heresy or.
Speaker 2: I mean prior to it.
Speaker 1: He's actually talking about he's what well, aaron As talks.
Speaker 25: About second of bishops prior to Marcian, and.
Speaker 1: It's referring to.
Speaker 25: Like easy. Aaron As is even saying something like you
that it's not even really scripture, it's a more apostolic
foundation that is the proponent of the church.
Speaker 1: Mm hm.
Speaker 25: And I'm just reading out of the Pelicon book I
have right here, and so so there were even i mean,
what what whatever is debated later, but in the early
Church there was even a more emphasis on apostolic succession
than there was on quote unquote scripture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean that's you know, when aaron
As begins book three or four, that's the first thing
he says is, well, we don't even have to listen
to these heretics because they don't even have the succession.
So it's like an immediate disqualifier for him, before even
trying to argue like the Biblical text with him.
Speaker 25: Yeah, why would you argue the big Biblical text with
somebody who didn't have the Apostolic succession exactly?
Speaker 1: Yeah. And notice here when you go to these weird
websites like whatever, this is some sort of Protestant thing,
and it's like they're even citing Montanous and his women
as like he was so ahead of the head of
the of the curve with like his women pastors. It
was so sweet, dude. It was so sick, so sick, dude.
If we just had some more womens or whatever, like
then we could have like like really equality in the churches.
We would have so much like massaging or whatever. If
you just had like just had like.
Speaker 3: Some sick prophetesss or like Instagram girls or whatever.
Speaker 1: Like I bet, I bet.
Speaker 25: They said exactly what you just said like that. That's
that's what they said back then.
Speaker 1: That be so sick right now, Ja kwan or j'all
woken sends a lot of money, Dang, y'all are being generous.
My little seeds of faith. Black preacher bit brought in
about five hundred dollars, so he says for one hundred
and sixty nine new Zealand Bucks. Put y'all hand on
the screen and pray with me. Laptop five dollars. Would God,
the Triune God, be physical and non physical? God proper
is no, is not physical. I mean usually that refers
to in our view, the person of the Father, right,
and then God can also refer to the divine nature
which is shared by the Son of the Spirit. But
God is not physical. The Son took on a human nature.
But we wouldn't say that God is physical, at least
not the way that your question is framed. The Son
is uncreated, and the Spirit is the mind of the Father.
The Son, the Spirit, and the mind are immaterial. I
mean there's just Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and all
three we would say have the same divine mind, and
all three are immaterial in their person and their nature.
Except that the Son became material. That doesn't mean that
he changed or transformed into matter. It means that he
added a physical human nature to the divine nature that
he possesses. Judy Steyer, what's up? I thank you if
you can remember, Amy twenty dollars. Thank you for keeping
all this real. I enjoy your channel. I like Jamie's
channel as well. Thank you. Appreciate that. Amy much love
from Tennessee. We'll shout out to all of our fellow
Tennessee people.
Speaker 3: Pastor jayde this will cove of my indulgence. He's twenty dollars.
Put this towards that twenty one thousand. We're doing a
little bit of a fundraiser. Nobody leaves the bathroom or
the party, or the shit of until I see twenty
thousand dollars worth of super chats. I want everybody to
lock themselves in the bathroom, lock themselves in the bedroom
wherever you are. And this is an act of faith.
You don't leave that bathroom with that bedroom son until
I see twenty thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: With the super chats. You'll see the faith offering. Friends.
It's only twenty thousand dollars that I'm expecting tonight. Well,
for those that don't know, there was that black preacher
that I actually said closing doors. Ain't nobody getting out
un till I see forty thousand, yea, remember that. Let's
go see if I can find that man. These black
preachers are off the hook, They're unchained off the hook.
Black preachers are going wild. We just had a giant
black preacher, Mega Church busted by the FBI involved in
everything in Florida. Tristan, you missed that. Shout out to Tristanah.
Let's see black preacher. No one leaves. Wasn't it like
forty thousand? Yeah, here it is Marvin Sap. Now, this
man right here knows how to do church. Okay. This
is how you do church, right lost that is involved.
This is how you do church. I said close them doors.
I said close them doors. Close the doors.
Speaker 3: Close that bathroom door right now. Lock that man, because
a lot of y'all. Right now, y'all watching and listening
on the shitter, you on the pot on the can. Okay,
I know what you're doing. You listening to me while
you go and doodo. Okay. I want you to lock
that door. I want people outside to lock you in
that door. You don't get out until I see forty thousand. Okay,
close the doors.
Speaker 1: We all gonna lead together.
Speaker 22: Y'all ain't going no place but to the restaurant.
Speaker 1: We know where you're going. You're gonna eat this.
Speaker 22: One thousand of you tonight, and those that are watching.
It's a thousand that's watching online.
Speaker 3: I want a thousand of y'all right now to send
me forty thousand dollars. Okay, we're gonna beat Pastor Marvin
over here, Bishop Marvin, because if every one of y'all
in this audience sent me forty thousand dollars right now,
I could retire and I could get so much more done.
Speaker 22: I'm challenging each of you all down here to give
a twenty dollars seed.
Speaker 1: I'm challenging just Tristan right now to give me.
Speaker 3: Forty coconuts because he's down there in the Ecuador where
they got them islands. Okay, he living on an Ecuadorian island,
he got coconuts. He basically built a house out of coconuts.
I want forty thousand coconut from Tristan right now. We
ain't leaving this hut. We ain't leaving this hut until
I see forty thousand coconuts in the super chat right now. Okay,
by the way, did you know that it is possible
to be a bishop and a pimp at the same
time we had a whole dispute, We had a whole schism.
Do you know that there was pimp schisms? I'm not joking,
Bishop don Juan, uh reverend and pimp. Okay, see this
man right here, Bishop don Juan, that's my boy right up.
Speaker 1: Let's listen.
Speaker 3: He had a schism with another pill Okay, this pempo
stalic succession over here. Now is you with Bishop don
Juan or is you with Bishop what was that other
guy's name, Seamen, seamaster, Minister Seymour, that's him.
Speaker 1: So we basically got a pimp schism right now. And
you gotta choose. You gotta choose.
Speaker 3: You're gonna be on the side of Minister Seymour? Are
you going to be on the side of the true
pempostalic succession Bishop don Juan. Now we all know deep
down minister Seymour is a schismatic okay, now me Now.
Speaker 1: You see that he said I'm in the church.
Speaker 3: Okay, only a man lifted up in him pride would
say I'm the church. Now listen to the to the
real humility of Bishop don Juan, who don't speak that way.
This right here, to this a proof right here, this proof,
This is the real authentic succession right here. Or is
this just something that you did, you know, to sort
of keep the women in line, or how would you
really describe that.
Speaker 18: Well, one thing about me is, let me get it
understood that I never had to beat the girls for
money or anything like that, because they wanted to do
everything they could.
Speaker 1: Man, I see that. Listen, Bishop don Juan, don't gotta
beat women. I didn't hear nothing like that out of
Minister Seymour and his schism. What's I tell you right there?
That's how you that's how you know. That's how you
know who's got true pepper solid succession. I'm making sure
they're miss any super jests storm the cat.
Speaker 3: Do you like Brian Eno? Uh, be honest with you, man,
I only know one Brian Eno song.
Speaker 1: Be honest with you.
Speaker 3: I mean, as a full identified black man, I gotta
be honest with you.
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot of these weird white people's songs. Okay,
this is some kind of that weird whitem. This is
what a weird white boy listened to. Okay, I don't
know nothing about that. I ain't an arcle. Okay, you
might have a few articles that listen or something like this,
but this ain't me. Man. Now, listen, we got some
black people in the audience, Ash Brosey, I want you
to be honest. Have you ever heard a white man
do that good of a black man voice. I honestly
think I have the best black man voice. Now, there
is that one unk, the wigger unk, who has probably
the best wigger voice dude on Instagram. I mean, I
cannot even do a wiged voice anywhere near as good
as that dude. But I do feel like my actual
black dude is pretty damn good. I mean, I've called
people before doing my black voice and people don't know it.
They think it's a black dude. Literally, I've called my
family talking like a black dude and they think they're
getting they're getting, they get start getting scared, thinking a
black we got black people calling us. I don't know
who they are.
Speaker 2: I was like, that was me, what, hey, you know
what's funny about that?
Speaker 1: Well, what's funny?
Speaker 7: That's when the Cat Williams thing was blowing up last
last year, maybe a year and a half ago, And
you did your impression of Cat. I've been watching I was.
Speaker 2: I started sending that.
Speaker 6: Well, I sent it to my wife.
Speaker 2: She thought it was like, and It's like I've.
Speaker 7: Been I've been hearing like impressions a cat my entire life. Obviously,
my family I'll I'll try on myself. If I'm listening
to him, you have the best Cat Williams.
Speaker 1: Thank you appreciate that. It's insane.
Speaker 7: No, you sound exactly like him, so like that was
that was pretty funny. I mean, yeah, I know, I
know the wigger on here talking about he he's like
peak wigger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he'd like like a chubby white guy, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like he looks like a gen x uh
you know, with he's got a white beard.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I know, yeah, we're talking about the same.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to find that profile. I think Tristan,
I think Tristan sent me the clip. But I mean
I can I can't do a wigger voice. There's a
little bit of a a a fun ass that's different
for the wigger voice versus a regular black dude voice.
Speaker 7: Yeah, but I mean I'll be boring for him. He
straight up just sounds like a nigga though, like he
doesn't really.
Speaker 1: Have any like he's so he's so wiggered. He sounds authentic, okay,
because I think.
Speaker 7: I think the key for him or for like some
of the wiggers that sound more like just straight up blocks.
Speaker 2: You have to be from the South and oh really,
every yeah, every for everyone.
Speaker 7: I've heard they're all from the South with it because
I think that guy grew up in Baton Rouge.
Speaker 2: Okay, some of some of them are from Florida.
Speaker 7: He might maybe he's from Florida even uh yeah, but
a lot of them are from like anywhere in the
Miami Dade County. Everybody from down there, like the white,
black or whatever. You're gonna sound like a gonna sound
like a nigga.
Speaker 1: So all right, let let's let's hear it. Here's the
here's the uncle I'm talking about right here.
Speaker 26: Stop stop stop asking. I'm in the mall right now,
stop asking. Sent them to see you a good man, man.
I've been snatched out six times out yet.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate it.
Speaker 7: I love him, you love the energy.
Speaker 26: It's black underscoring label, underscoring services sold. Joe y'all start
asking center for a good man. Bro God damn, I
kid gets snatched up in the mall. Man, ain't no
man he's spoken for.
Speaker 1: Anyway.
Speaker 7: Okay, Well, I'd corrected. He actually does have a ten
of whites for him. Because he said he pronounced the
s and asking. He didn't say accent. So it's not
he's no longer a genuine black lad.
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on home, let's give him. Let's see if
we can find another clip of him, because he always
comes up. Do we know what his name is?
Speaker 26: Ladies, ladies, lady, listen to be a favorable Stop stop
stop asking.
Speaker 1: I'm in the mall right now, stop, all right. I
don't know what his profile is. He pops up every
now and then. But anyway, Uh, to answer the question,
I only remember didn't Brian you know? Do she blinded
me with science? Or is that somebody else? I mean
that's the only song I know? Or no, that's not
Briani knows that I can't remember. No, I'm sorry, I'm
thinking of Thomas. I don't remember what. I'm sure John
Adams knows the Brian Eno songs. I don't remember. Man,
I don't know, though, But thank you for that super chat.
Brenda Turner, three dollars. You used to watch Pope Rap
by Trevor Moore.
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well Trevor's funny. So let's see, but I don't
know what. I don't remember the Pope Rap. Oh okay,
this was a Comedy Central thing, not from not from
whitest kid you know, all right, Yeah, Comedy Central won't
let you play any of this stuff because they'll immediately
copyright it. So I'll have to watch that later. But
I'll put in the chat since you recommended it. Andrews saying,
did you watch Destiny debate? Or are you gonna watch
Need God and What debate? I don't, oh Destiny versus
a job to be honest with you? May be honest
with you. May. I don't watch no debates man, for real, y'all,
I've been here trying to as me about a bath.
I don't watch noh of base man. I don't watch
none of these debates. I'm out here doing my own thing, okay,
y'all trying to get me up here a bunch of
other people business now, Man, I'm trying to do my
own thing. By the way, if I actually get a
cold and talk like a black dude, I scare people
because they think that's like the most real black voice
because I get a little bit of a crackle and
it doesn't sound like me at all. But I'm not
trying to be dismissive. But bro, I don't I literally
don't watch anybody else's debates. Ever, the last debate I
did watch, though, was Jim Bob. So I watched Jim
Bob debate that Mormon idiot. I have watched Andrew debates
some maybe in the last year. Uh, but I don't
remember the last I just don't have time to watch
a bunch of other people's debates. I watched some clips
of Nick flintest debating Danesh de Suza. Obviously, Donsha Susa
is awful, and of course he's never gonna do debate me.
But last debate I watched was me and Tim Gordon.
Would it be cool if you had a conversation with
David Bentley Hart? No, dude, I ain't gonna have a
talk with that lunatic. Are you serious? That dude's crazy?
He's an open perennialist member of the Democratic Socialist of America.
Like that, dude's awful. No, I'm not gonna have to
talk with him. By the way, he would never talk
to me anyway. Don Will ten dollars, Thank you so much, Zaane.
What's up? Don Will? What about guns in church? How
does that work? Are you trying to quote? I feel
like you're quoting the insane clown magnets. How does that work? Uh? Magic, yo, miracles?
Speaker 3: Remember this, we got a theory you see, Mike, then
it's a missed what really goes on?
Speaker 1: But I've seen what happened to. Uh what's their cult called?
I just went blank? What's the I c P cult
people called? They have a name? Not wiggers, Juggalos? Our
juggalos died out? What's where's that call? I haven't seen
a lot of juggalos. I want to debate a juggalo.
How's that? Next debate is me versus insane clown posse?
And we're going to debate, uh magic and science? Which
one is real and which one is fake? And y'all
are gonna be surprised. What's I don't know, Bobby C. Jay,
I appreciate work, but on my mom, you need to
put some respect on that. Put some respect on Bishop
don Juan. He got real pepper style that secession listen man.
I said he was the legit one, Okay, I said
Minister Seymour was the schismatic. You need to get your
fact straight. You need to check yourself for your radio self.
Haley's in the chat. Ten dollars, Thank you so much,
Flint Westwood. That's a name. Five dollars J I went
to liturgy Investments. Is the first time I was able
to find an Orthodox church in Wisconsin. I'm glad you were,
but Wisconsin sounds terrible. I'm sure the people are good,
I'm sure your cheese is good. But I just those
Yankee towns just so scary to me. I don't know
new five hundred dollars for the jet baby, I think
I missed. I never did read your I was so
surprised you sent five hundred News New Zealand bucks and
I didn't even read it. Thank you so much so,
Man Dean Limb ten dollars Randy Balls the remix to
Ignition money laundering remix. I like that. I like that. Kyle,
can you break down Revelation two five to six? I mean, honestly,
off the top of my head, I know there's a
lot of debate about what the Nicolaason's taught. I don't,
off the top of my head, have like any insights.
I mean, I would just probably go to the notes
in the Orthodox Study Bible, or I mean, I've got
a bunch of commentaries on Revelation, but I don't have
them with me. My godfather has published a four volume,
so I would say, if you really want to get
deep into the Book of Revelation, my godfather wrote one
volume and then published the three volumes of James Jordan's
Commentary in Revelation, So I would say, you know, check
something like that out. You can get this at Dean
Arnold dot com and I'll put that in the chat
for there. Jordan's are probably one of the best of
the Protestant biblical exegetes. To be honest, not promoting Protestants.
I'm just saying like this, this his commentary is actually
lead a lot of people to Orthodoxy. So zaying this
is a weird question. Were you twoing tobacco? What was it?
ALP which is the non cucked brand of Zen. So
we went hung out with Hesher and spor when when
I was on Alex and they got me doing nicotines again,
so I was I was had an ALP pack in
you know, like Tucker's Zen's. This was ALP, same stuff,
different brand, all right? Is that the last of the
super jests.
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Speaker 9: Uh.
Speaker 1: I think Jamie and I might go see tron Arees.
I don't know. Uh, There's there's been actually three or
two or three movies that were pretty good lately that
I want to do an analysis of, and most movies sucks.
So if I see a movie that I think was
actually pretty interesting and at least had some symbolism in it,
I'm a little bit excited, you know what I mean. Now,
I know tron ares doesn't have the greatest reviews. However,
I did do an analysis of the previous Trons, so
I feel like I need to kind of fill out
the trilogy or whatever or part four whatever this is.
The previous tron was not very good, but I'm willing
to give this one a chance. It looks visually interesting.
But I did like Eden and I did like Bogonia.
Bogunia was pretty funny, I have to say, and I'm
not a huge what was that guys, Your ghosts Lanthromos
whatever that crazy Greek name is, your ghosts lanthemosh. The
The Lobster was okay, So I did see Lobster when
it came out. It was an okay dystopia. I feel
like it could have been better. It's kind of a
little boring. Poor Things was terrible. It would I recommend
Poor Things, And I thought it was going to be
like a I don't know, like a you know, I
don't know, something like twelve Monkeys type of you know,
I mean, not like twelve Monkeys, but like I'm going
blank on them Terry Gilliam. I expected that Poor Things
are going to be like a Terry Gilliam movie, and
usually Emma Stone's pretty good in whatever movie she's in.
But it was gross, dude. It it was like gross
Krollian stuff. And so I didn't actually have very high
expectations for Bogonia at all, and turns out it was
really funny and pretty interesting, So I do recommend it
a little bit of feminism little bit, but also it's
so goofy and satirical that I didn't even really mind
a little bit of feminism in it, because it's just preposterous.
But it's funny preposterous. So much better than all of
his previous outings, I'll have to say. And I'd thought
Eden was actually pretty good. It was better than I expected.
You have Jude Law basically kind of setting up a
atheist nature cult, you could say, although he doesn't really
want to be a cult because he wants to be alone.
So he's trying to kind of set up a m
night Shamalin village situation right out in the middle of nowhere.
It's based on a true story supposedly of these disillusioned
Germans that try to set up some community on an
island and it just turns into a nightmare. But it
ends up being a symbol for quote civilization and the idea,
oh can I set up, you know, a community that
will be free from the troubles.
Speaker 2: Of the world.
Speaker 1: And then what you find is that well, because humans
are fallen, humans bring the troubles. You can't really get
away from it. You can't really escape greed and envy
and lying and all this kind of stuff, even when
you have ten people trying to survive on an island.
So it made for a good allegory for civilization. So
it was kind of like Lord of the Flies or
Mosquito Coast with Harrison Ford, or Lost in the Vein
of those if you like that kind of stuff, So
I might what am I doing a movie stream in
the next few days on these anyway, Thank you guys
so much. A lot of fun tonight, and I will
talk to you soon. Be sure, and head over to
Jason Elsons dot com in the shop get ahold of
the books Star Hollywood one in too. And by the way,
I also bought a bunch of stock of The Red Book,
so there's quite a few copies of the Red Book
if you headn't over to the shop and you can
get Estar Hollywood one, two, and three sign copies of