WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.000 Now one of your pudding. I got a string going 2 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:06.120 on here, something just cause my dog. Something killed your dog, 3 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:08.960 My dog. We're flying through the air over the tree. 4 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:13.640 I don't know how it did it, Okay, Damn, I'm 5 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:16.120 really confused. All I saw was my dog coming over 6 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:17.800 the fence and he was dead. And once you hit 7 00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:19.679 the ground like, I didn't see any cars. All I 8 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:38.320 saw was my dog coming over the fence. Sat, what 9 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:42.960 are you putting? We got some wonder or something crawling 10 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:51.759 around out here? Did you see what it was? Or 11 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:54.159 was it was? Standing enough? I'm out here looking through 12 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:55.920 the window now and I don't see anything. I don't 13 00:00:55.960 --> 00:01:03.880 want to go outside. Jesus Quice, you better hello, get 14 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.120 the Boddy out here. What quent on out there? I 15 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:08.959 thought of a bench about tech forty nine. I don't know. 16 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:11.959 Easy him out there. Yeah, I'm walking right head uh. 17 00:01:12.439 --> 00:01:17.040 Chapter twenty six, home Fires. Daniel settled into his new 18 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:19.560 life with the contentment of a man who'd found his place. 19 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:23.840 The pizza Place, a family owned joint called Mountain Pies 20 00:01:24.280 --> 00:01:27.239 had opened in March about six miles down the road 21 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:30.799 from our property. It was a small operation, just a 22 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:33.599 kitchen and a few tables, but the food was good 23 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:36.799 and the owners were good people. The Hartley family had 24 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:39.640 moved up from Georgia a few years back, looking for 25 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:42.959 a quieter life, and they'd poured everything they had into 26 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:47.120 making the restaurant work. Daniel started as assistant manager but 27 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:51.560 quickly became indispensable. He handled the books, managed the staff, 28 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:55.120 dealt with suppliers. He came home smelling of dough and 29 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:59.319 tomato sauce, tired but happy, talking about the day's challenges 30 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:03.040 with an enthusias I hadn't seen in years. You know 31 00:02:03.079 --> 00:02:05.480 what I love about this, he said one evening, as 32 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:08.840 we sat on the porch watching the sunset. Nobody's trying 33 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:13.039 to kill me, nobody's threatening us, nobody's making mysterious phone 34 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:15.159 calls in the middle of the night. I just make 35 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:20.280 pizza and go home. Sounds boring, I teased. Boring is underrated. 36 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:24.240 After everything we've been through, boring is exactly what I needed. 37 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:28.800 He was right. The intensity of the investigation, the threats, 38 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:32.280 the constant sense of danger, it had taken a toll 39 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:35.280 on both of us. We'd been living on adrenaline for 40 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:39.199 so long that we'd forgotten what normal felt like. Now, finally, 41 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:41.960 we had a chance to remember. Our life had found 42 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:46.400 a rhythm. I spent my morning's researching, my afternoon's interviewing, 43 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:51.039 my evening's editing, and preparing episodes. Daniel worked his shifts 44 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:55.120 at the restaurant, came home, cooked dinner. We talked about 45 00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:58.199 our days, about the stories I was collecting, about the 46 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:01.199 funny things that happened at the pizza play. We went 47 00:03:01.240 --> 00:03:04.360 to bed together, slept soundly, woke up ready to do 48 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:08.520 it all again. It was simple, it was peaceful. It 49 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:11.000 was everything we dreamed of when we'd first moved to 50 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:15.479 these mountains. But the work continued. The work always continued. 51 00:03:16.039 --> 00:03:18.960 The podcast had become something bigger than I'd ever imagined. 52 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:22.280 By the end of my second year, Sasquatch Odyssey had 53 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:26.280 been downloaded over five million times. The community had grown 54 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:29.680 to tens of thousands of active members. I'd been featured 55 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:34.240 in magazines, interviewed on radio shows, invited to speak at conferences. 56 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:38.280 The money was coming into enough to cover our expenses, 57 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:42.000 enough to invest in better equipment, enough to feel secure 58 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:45.080 for the first time in years. We weren't rich by 59 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.680 any means, but we weren't struggling either. The podcast was 60 00:03:48.759 --> 00:03:52.719 working and more importantly, it was making a difference. I 61 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:55.840 knew this because of the emails. I received hundreds of 62 00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:58.879 them every week from people who'd found the podcast and 63 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:02.360 felt validated for the first time in their lives, people 64 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:05.759 who'd been carrying their encounters in secret, afraid to speak, 65 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:10.080 convinced they were alone, people who'd finally found a community 66 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:14.840 that understood. One email in particular stood out. It came 67 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:18.240 from a woman named Margaret, seventy eight years old, living 68 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:21.480 in a nursing home in rural Pennsylvania. She'd had an 69 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:24.600 encounter in nineteen fifty two. She was a young girl 70 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:27.240 walking home from school through the woods when she'd seen 71 00:04:27.279 --> 00:04:30.839 a creature watching her from behind a fallen tree. I've 72 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:34.720 never told anyone, Margaret wrote, seventy years, I've kept this secret. 73 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:38.519 My husband didn't know, my children don't know. I was 74 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:41.439 always afraid they'd think I was crazy. But I'm old 75 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:43.920 now and I don't have much time left, and I 76 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.079 needed to tell someone before I die. I needed someone 77 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.480 to know that what I saw was real. Thank you 78 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:53.480 for creating a space where people like me can finally speak. 79 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:57.040 Thank you for believing us. Thank you for carrying our 80 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:01.240 stories forward. I read that email with tears in my eyes. 81 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:04.720 This was why I did this work, not for the money, 82 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:09.040 not for the recognition, for Margaret, for all the Margarets 83 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:12.639 out there carrying secrets they were afraid to share, For 84 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:15.720 the witnesses who deserved to be heard, for the truth 85 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:18.680 that had been hidden for too long. The podcast was 86 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:21.199 giving them a voice, and I would keep doing it 87 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:24.439 as long as there were stories to tell. The third 88 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:28.000 year brought new challenges. As the podcast grew, so did 89 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:32.839 the scrutiny. Skeptics came out in force, attacking MY credibility, 90 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:37.920 dismissing my witnesses, demanding scientific proof that I couldn't provide. 91 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:41.720 Some of them were genuine debunkers, committed to rational inquiry. 92 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:46.079 Others were trolls looking to stir up trouble. A few 93 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:50.079 I suspected were more sinister, part of the same apparatus 94 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:52.920 that had tried to shut us down before I learned 95 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:56.920 to handle them, to respond calmly, to present the evidence 96 00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:00.160 without getting defensive, To acknowledge the limits of what I 97 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:02.759 could prove while standing firm on what I knew to 98 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:07.319 be true. It wasn't easy, but it was necessary. The 99 00:06:07.319 --> 00:06:10.560 bigger challenge was maintaining quality. As the volume of potential 100 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:14.800 interviews exploded, I was receiving dozens of requests every day, 101 00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:18.959 too many to possibly accommodate. I had to develop systems 102 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:23.000 for screening, for prioritizing, for identifying the stories that were 103 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:26.519 most worth telling. I hired a part time researcher to 104 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:30.079 help with the workload, then a second one. The podcast 105 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:33.519 was becoming a business, and while that brought benefits, it 106 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:38.160 also brought complications. I hadn't anticipated. One of those complications 107 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:40.560 arrived in April in the form of a phone call 108 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:44.439 from a producer in Los Angeles. Mister Patterson, my name 109 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:48.439 is Amanda Gardner. I'm with Meridian Productions. We've been following 110 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:51.199 your podcast for some time, and we'd like to discuss 111 00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:56.439 a potential partnership. What kind of partnership a television series, 112 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:01.800 documentary style based on Sasquatch Odyssey. We'd feature your interviews, 113 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:05.439 recreate some of the encounters, add production value that you 114 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:09.160 can achieve with a podcast alone. It would reach millions 115 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:12.120 of viewers who've never heard of your show. I was 116 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:16.560 skeptical television meant giving up control. It meant letting other 117 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:20.079 people make decisions about how the stories were told. It 118 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:23.959 meant the kind of sensationalism that I'd always tried to avoid. 119 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:27.600 But it also meant exposure. It meant reaching people who 120 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:31.399 wouldn't find the podcast on their own. It meant amplifying 121 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:35.079 the voices of witnesses who deserve to be heard. I'll 122 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:37.839 think about it, I said, take all the time you need, 123 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.040 But mister Patterson, I want you to know that we're 124 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:44.279 committed to doing this right. We've seen too many shows 125 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:47.639 exploit this subject for cheap thrills. That's not what we're 126 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:50.319 interested in. We want to tell these stories with the 127 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:54.639 respect and authenticity they deserve. I told Daniel about the 128 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:58.360 offer that evening. What do you think, I asked, I 129 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:01.959 think you should be careful, he said. Television changes things. 130 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:06.199 It's not like the podcast, where you control everything. Once 131 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:09.959 you sign a contract, you're playing by their rules. I know, 132 00:08:10.519 --> 00:08:13.720 but the reach, the reach is tempting. But is it 133 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:16.240 worth it if they turned these stories into a freak show. 134 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:20.800 I didn't have an answer, not yet, but the question 135 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:23.639 stayed with me, turning over in my mind as I 136 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:27.680 continued the work that had become my life's calling. The 137 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:30.439 four hundred and fiftieth interview happened on a rainy Tuesday 138 00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:34.039 in September. The witness was a man named Jacob Whitehorse, 139 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:37.799 a Navajo elder from Arizona. He'd reached out to me 140 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:40.840 through the community forum, asking to share stories from his 141 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:44.960 people's tradition. We call them the Yet it's so, Jacob said, 142 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:48.679 his voice carrying the weight of centuries, the big Giant. 143 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:51.960 They've been part of our stories since the beginning, not 144 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:55.279 as monsters to be feared, but as neighbors to be respected. 145 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:59.159 Different from us, living by different rules, but part of 146 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:03.879 the same world. Tell me about your personal experiences. I've 147 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:06.919 seen them three times in my life, once as a child, 148 00:09:07.399 --> 00:09:10.919 once as a young man, once as an elder. Each 149 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:15.759 time the encounter taught me something, something about respect, about humility, 150 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:19.279 about our place in the web of life. What did 151 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:22.960 you learn? Jacob was quiet for a moment. When he 152 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:26.639 spoke again, his voice was soft. I learned that we 153 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:29.559 are not alone. I learned that the world is bigger 154 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:32.320 than we think, full of beings and forces that we 155 00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:36.200 can't fully understand. And I learned that our job, the 156 00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:39.840 job of humans, is not to conquer or control, but 157 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:42.879 to live in balance, to take what we need and 158 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.039 give back what we can to be good neighbors to 159 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:49.440 all the creatures who share this earth with us. Do 160 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:53.000 you think these creatures are spiritual beings? I think the 161 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:56.759 line between physical and spiritual is thinner than you Westerners believe. 162 00:09:57.559 --> 00:10:00.960 These beings walk in both worlds. They have bodies you 163 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:03.879 can see in touch, but they also have spirits that 164 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:07.279 can reach across the divide. They are teachers if we're 165 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:12.000 willing to learn, guides, if we're willing to follow. What 166 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:15.200 do you think is happening now? Why are the sightings increasing? 167 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.840 Because the balance is broken. Humanity has taken too much, 168 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:24.799 destroyed too much, forgotten too much. The old ways are dying, 169 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:29.039 the web of life is fraying, and the Yaidzo are concerned. 170 00:10:29.759 --> 00:10:33.080 They've watched us for millennia, hoping we would find our way, 171 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:36.960 but time is running out. The world is changing, and 172 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:41.559 not for the better. What can we do? Listen, learn, 173 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:45.879 remember what our ancestors knew. These beings are trying to 174 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:50.559 tell us something through their appearances, through their communications, through 175 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:54.120 the very fact of their existence. They're reminding us that 176 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:56.960 we're not the only ones who matter, that the world 177 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:00.440 doesn't belong to us. Alone, that we have responsible abilities 178 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:04.519 we've been ignoring for too long. Jacob's interview stayed with 179 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:07.639 me long after we hung up. His words echoed through 180 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:10.559 my mind as I edited the episode, as I fell 181 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:13.440 asleep that night, as I woke up to another day 182 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:17.360 of searching for truth, a reckoning was coming. I didn't 183 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:20.679 know when, didn't know how, but I knew that Jacob 184 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:24.759 was right. We had responsibilities, we had lessons to learn, 185 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:27.600 and the creatures in the shadows were waiting to see 186 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:31.039 if we'd finally pay attention. As the third year drew 187 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.759 to a close, I took stock of everything I'd built. 188 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:38.759 Four hundred and fifty interviews, five million downloads, a community 189 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:44.919 spanning dozens of countries, Witnesses validated secret, shared, truth spread, 190 00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.879 and yet it felt like we were just beginning. The 191 00:11:47.960 --> 00:11:51.679 creatures were still out there, watching from the darkness. The 192 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:55.039 cover up was crumbling, but not yet collapsed. The truth 193 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:58.240 was emerging but had not yet been fully revealed. There 194 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.120 was so much more to do, so many more stories 195 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:04.759 to tell, so many more people to reach. I looked 196 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:07.919 out at the mountains, at the endless forest that surrounded 197 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:11.240 our home, and I made a promise to myself I 198 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:14.759 would keep going, no matter how long it took, no 199 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:18.519 matter what obstacles appeared, I would keep searching for the truth, 200 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:22.559 keep giving voice to the witnesses, keep preparing the world 201 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:25.440 for what was coming, because That's what I'd been called 202 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:29.039 to do. That's what I'd been preparing for my whole life, 203 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:31.600 since that day in the woods behind our house in Lyrey, 204 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.679 when I was twelve years old. The odyssey continued, and 205 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.840 I was ready for whatever came next. Chapter twenty seven, 206 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:44.519 Separating Wheat from chaff. Not every interview was a gem. 207 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:48.159 In fact, as the podcast grew and more people reached out, 208 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:51.759 I found myself spending increasing amounts of time filtering through 209 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:55.519 stories that ranged from the dubious to the outright absurd. 210 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:00.039 For every Earl Hutchins or Mary Catherine O'Brien witness this 211 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:04.000 whose sincerity and detail convinced me of their authenticity, there 212 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:07.600 were a dozen others whose accounts raised red flags. Some 213 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.320 were obvious hoaxers, looking for attention or trying to capitalize 214 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:15.399 on the podcast's growing audience. These were usually easy to spot, 215 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:20.799 inconsistent details, borrowed elements from famous cases, an eagerness to 216 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:24.000 be featured that felt more like self promotion than truth telling. 217 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.919 Others were harder to categorize. People who genuinely believed what 218 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:32.080 they were saying, but whose stories didn't hold up under scrutiny, 219 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:37.600 people who'd conflated dreams with reality, who'd embellished mundane experiences 220 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:42.039 into extraordinary, ones who'd convinced themselves of encounters that had 221 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:45.279 never actually happened. And then there were the ones that 222 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:48.679 made me question whether I was wasting my time entirely. 223 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:52.000 The interview that nearly broke me came in the spring 224 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:55.679 of my third year. His name was Derek Fontaine, a 225 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:59.360 forty two year old construction worker from British Columbia. He'd 226 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:01.919 reached out through the website, claiming to have had an 227 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:06.279 encounter unlike any I documented before. His initial email was 228 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:10.279 vague but intriguing, promising details that would change everything I 229 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:13.720 thought I knew about these creatures. I should have known better. 230 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:19.039 The vague promises, the grandiose claims, these were warning signs 231 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:23.159 I'd learned to recognize. But I was tired, stretched thin 232 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.080 by the volume of requests, and his location in the 233 00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:30.399 Pacific Northwest Prime Sasquatch Territory made me give him the 234 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.480 benefit of the doubt, We scheduled a video call for 235 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.240 a Tuesday evening. Derek appeared on screen, looking exactly like 236 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:40.879 I'd expected, a stocky, bearded man in a flannel shirt 237 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:43.440 sitting in what appeared to be a basement wreck room. 238 00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:48.600 He seemed nervous, fidgeting with something off camera, avoiding eye contact. 239 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:52.120 Thanks for taking the time, Derek, I said, why don't 240 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:55.840 you start by telling me about your encounter and stay 241 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:58.039 tuned for more sasquatch ott to see. We'll be right 242 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:05.519 back after these messages. Well, it happened back in twenty fifteen, 243 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:08.360 he began. I was on this camping trip up near 244 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:12.000 Harrison Lake, a men's retreat, you know, bunch of guys 245 00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:15.200 from my church getting back to nature, doing the whole 246 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:19.720 bonding thing. How many people were on the trip, about fifteen. 247 00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:22.639 I think we had a base camp set up, tents 248 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:26.120 all around, fire pit in the middle, real nice setup. 249 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:31.919 And what happened Derek shifted uncomfortably. Well, the first couple 250 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:36.559 nights were normal, hiking, fishing, sitting around the fire, telling stories. 251 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:41.600 But on the third night something changed changed. How I 252 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.519 couldn't sleep. It was hot and I'd had too much 253 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.120 coffee after dinner. So I was just lying there in 254 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:52.159 my tent, staring at the ceiling when I heard something outside. Footsteps, 255 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:57.960 heavy footsteps circling the camp. This was familiar territory. I 256 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:01.440 nodded encouragingly. I didn't think much of it at first, 257 00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:04.159 figured it was a bear, maybe one of the other 258 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:06.679 guys going to take a leak. But then my tent 259 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:11.320 flap opened. Someone came into your tent. Something came into 260 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:14.480 my tent. Derek's voice dropped to a near whisper. 261 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:15.559 It was. 262 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:20.120 It was a sasquatch, a female. I could tell, because 263 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:24.120 well I could tell. I felt a nott forming in 264 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:27.840 my stomach. I'd heard stories like this before, claims of 265 00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:31.399 intimate encounters with these creatures that stretched credulity beyond the 266 00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:36.080 breaking point. What happened next, Derek, He wouldn't meet my eyes. 267 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:41.159 She we look I know this sounds crazy, but she 268 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:46.159 came into my tent and she we had relations, sexual relations. 269 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:49.320 She wanted it. I could tell the way she looked 270 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.240 at me, the way she touched me. I held up 271 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:55.879 my hand hold on. You're telling me that a sasquatch 272 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:58.639 entered your tent while you were surrounded by fourteen other men, 273 00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.519 and you had sexual inn intercourse with it her with 274 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:07.000 her and yes, that's what I'm saying. Did anyone else 275 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:09.440 see this creature? Did anyone hear anything? 276 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:10.359 No? 277 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.880 She was quiet, real quiet, and it was it was 278 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:18.680 over pretty quick, Derek. I tried to keep my voice 279 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:23.720 level professional. I've interviewed hundreds of witnesses. I've heard stories 280 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.279 that would make most people's hair stand up. But this 281 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.799 is not consistent with anything we know about these creatures behavior. 282 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:35.480 I knew you wouldn't believe me. Nobody believes me. It's 283 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:40.079 not about belief, it's about evidence. It's about patterns. In 284 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:43.920 all the documented encounters, across decades of research, there's never 285 00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:47.240 been a credible report of this kind of interaction. These 286 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:51.279 creatures avoid human contact. They don't seek out intimate encounters 287 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:55.599 with strangers in tents. Maybe I'm special. Maybe she saw 288 00:17:55.640 --> 00:18:00.160 something in me, Derek, My patience was wearing thin. Did 289 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:02.559 you report this to anyone at the time? Did you 290 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:06.400 tell the other men on the retreat? No? I was embarrassed. 291 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:10.039 I didn't know what to say. Are there any physical traces, 292 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:12.240 any evidence at all that this happened? 293 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:13.119 Well? 294 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:16.519 No, but I know what I experienced. It was real. 295 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:19.359 It was the most real thing that's ever happened to me. 296 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:24.039 I took a deep breath. I appreciate you reaching out, Derek, 297 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:25.960 but I'm not going to be able to feature this 298 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:30.000 story on the podcast. The lack of corroborating evidence, the 299 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:34.839 inconsistency with known behavior patterns that I stopped myself, it 300 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:37.000 just doesn't meet the standards I've set for the show. 301 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:41.680 Derek's face hardened. You're just like all the others. You 302 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:44.200 say you want the truth, but when someone gives it 303 00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:47.759 to you, you can't handle it. I want credible truth, 304 00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:52.880 I want verifiable experiences. What you're describing is what happened, 305 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:56.759 whether you believe it or not. The call ended shortly 306 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.799 after that, with Derek hanging up in obvious frustration. I 307 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:04.359 sat in my studio, staring at the blank screen, wondering 308 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:06.599 for the hundredth time if I was doing this right. 309 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.400 Daniel found me on the porch an hour later, nursing 310 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:13.839 a beer and watching the stars come out rough interview. 311 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:17.079 He asked, sitting down beside me, you could say that 312 00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.799 I told him about Derek, about the story about my frustration. 313 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.200 The thing is he seemed to genuinely believe it. He 314 00:19:26.240 --> 00:19:31.799 wasn't lying exactly, he was just, I don't know, deluded fantasizing. 315 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:35.720 Does it matter. You can't put every story on the show, 316 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.799 I know, but it's getting harder to sort through them all. 317 00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:43.559 For every legitimate witness, there are five Derek Fontaines, people 318 00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:47.519 who've convinced themselves of experiences that never happened, people who 319 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:51.119 want attention or validation, or just someone to listen to 320 00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:55.599 their fantasies. That's the price of success, Daniel said. The 321 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:58.680 bigger the platform, the more noise you have to filter out. 322 00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:01.400 I just don't I want to become one of those shows, 323 00:20:01.880 --> 00:20:03.920 the ones that'll put anything on air as long as 324 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:07.119 it's sensational. That's not what this is supposed to be about. 325 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:11.559 Then don't let it become that you've built something real here, Brian, 326 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.200 something that helps people. Don't let the Derek Fontanes of 327 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.079 the world make you forget that. He was right, of 328 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:23.200 course he usually was, but the frustration lingered a reminder 329 00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:28.119 that this work, this calling, wasn't always easy. Sometimes it 330 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:31.720 meant disappointing people, sometimes it meant being the bad guy. 331 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:35.039 But if I didn't maintain standards. If I didn't filter 332 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.319 the wheat from the chaff, the podcast would become worthless, 333 00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:42.519 just another collection of tall tales and wishful thinking, and 334 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:46.359 that would help no one. So I kept filtering, kept sorting, 335 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.000 kept searching for the real stories buried under the mountain 336 00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:53.279 of noise. The next interview couldn't have been more different. 337 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.960 Her name was Gloria Reyes, a sixty four year old 338 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.759 retired nurse from rural New Mexico. She'd i'd hesitant to 339 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:04.920 reach out, her email full of apologies and disclaimers, convinced 340 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:08.079 that no one would take her seriously. I've never told 341 00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:12.000 anyone about this, she said when we connected, not my husband, 342 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:15.440 not my children. I was afraid they'd think I'd lost 343 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.119 my mind. Tell me what happened to Gloria. It was 344 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.200 nineteen ninety two. I was working at a small hospital 345 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:26.079 in Las Vegas. That's Las Vegas, New Mexico, not Nevada. 346 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:29.720 We served a lot of the outlying communities, ranches and 347 00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:33.880 pueblos that didn't have their own medical facilities. What happened 348 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.079 that year? A young man was brought in late one night, 349 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:41.480 a Navajo boy, maybe nineteen or twenty. He'd been found 350 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:46.759 wandering on the highway, dehydrated, confused, covered in scratches and bruises. 351 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:49.880 The people who found him thought he'd been in an accident, 352 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:54.039 but there was no damage vehicle anywhere nearby. What was 353 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:58.880 his condition? Physically? He was okay, dehydrated and scraped up, 354 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:04.119 but nothing serious. But mentally he was somewhere else. He 355 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:08.279 kept mumbling about the big people, about being taken, being held, 356 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:13.359 being examined. We assumed he was delirious, maybe on drugs, 357 00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:18.359 maybe suffering from heat stroke. What did he describe as 358 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.400 his condition stabilized the story became clear. He said he'd 359 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.519 been camping in the mountains when something grabbed him, something 360 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:30.000 big and hairy, walking on two legs. Multiple creatures, actually, 361 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:32.799 he said there were at least three of them. They'd 362 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.119 carried him to a cave, held him there for what 363 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:37.759 he thought was several days, and then released him near 364 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:42.000 the highway. Did you believe him? At the time, I 365 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:45.920 didn't know what to believe. His story was consistent, detailed, 366 00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:49.640 specific in ways that didn't seem like fabrication, but it 367 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:53.640 was also impossible. Creatures like that didn't exist. That's what 368 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:57.519 I told myself. What made you change? Your mind. The 369 00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:02.559 physical evidence. Gloria's voice grew quieter. When we examined him 370 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:06.319 more thoroughly, we found things we couldn't explain. Hair caught 371 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:09.839 in his clothing that didn't match any known animal, bruises 372 00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:13.240 on his arms, and patterns that suggested large humanoid hands, 373 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:16.680 and his feet. His feet were injured in a way 374 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:21.079 that suggested he'd been carried for miles, not walked. What 375 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:25.480 happened to the evidence, that's the strangest part. The next morning, 376 00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:29.240 two men showed up at the hospital, federal agents, they said, 377 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.839 though they never showed proper id they took all the 378 00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:36.680 physical evidence, the hair samples, the photographs we'd taken of 379 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:40.240 the bruises. They interviewed the young man for hours, and 380 00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:42.759 when they were done, he signed a statement saying he'd 381 00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:45.240 been confused and didn't remember what had happened to him. 382 00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:49.720 He recanted he was terrified. I saw his face when 383 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:52.240 those men were done with him. He'd been threatened. I'm 384 00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:54.759 sure of it. They made him afraid to tell the truth. 385 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.920 And you've kept this secret for thirty years. What choice 386 00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:01.839 did I have. I was a nurse at a small hospital. 387 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.839 Those men made it clear that talking about what happened 388 00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:08.119 would have consequences, and I had a family to think about, 389 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.920 a career to protect. She paused, But I'm retired now. 390 00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:16.519 My husband passed two years ago, and I'm tired of 391 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:21.240 carrying the secret. That boy, that young man, he deserved 392 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:23.960 to be believed, and I need someone to know what 393 00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:31.079 really happened. Gloria's story was everything Derek Fontaine's wasn't, specific, verifiable, 394 00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:35.799 consistent with known patterns. The involvement of mysterious federal agents, 395 00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:40.559 the confiscation of evidence, the intimidation of witnesses. It all 396 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:43.279 fit with what I'd learned about the cover up, And 397 00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:48.319 unlike Derek's fantasy, Gloria's account came with something else, corroboration. 398 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:52.759 The young Navajo man she treated, she still remembered his name, 399 00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:56.279 and with some digging, I might be able to find him. 400 00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:59.079 This was why I did this work, This was why 401 00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:01.519