Speaker 1: And this is Michael Rosenbaum Alex Luthor, and you're listening
Speaker 1: to Always hold on to Smallville.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Always hold On to Smallville. In this podcast,
Speaker 2: we've talked about each and every episode of the Young
Speaker 2: Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to
Speaker 2: twenty eleven on the WB and the CW. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Zach Moore, and we're back with another Top ten episodes.
Speaker 2: That's right, we are determining the top ten episodes of
Speaker 2: Smallville as voted by you, the listeners, and this time
Speaker 2: the number two entry Justice Justice is an iconic episode.
Speaker 2: If you search Smallville online, you're gonna come up with
Speaker 2: three images. Clark Kent from the pilot with the S
Speaker 2: on his chest strung up in the cornfield, the very
Speaker 2: last shot of the series with Clark ripping open his
Speaker 2: shirt to reveal the Superman costume running towards camera, or
Speaker 2: the cool Guys don't look at explosions. Shot of Clark
Speaker 2: and the Proto Justice League walking away from the Luther
Speaker 2: Core facility as it explodes. You have Clark Kent, Green Arrow,
Speaker 2: the Flash, Impulse, Aquaman, and Cyboard. This episode was an event,
Speaker 2: still is an event.
Speaker 3: You look back.
Speaker 2: What other on screen Justice League things were there? Well,
Speaker 2: the failed Justice League of America pilot from nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 2: It is out there to find. I do not recommend
Speaker 2: watching it. It is terrible. But other than that, you
Speaker 2: had the Challenge of the Superheroes kind of a TV
Speaker 2: special with Adam West and Bert Ward returning as Batman
Speaker 2: and Robin. Those are interesting curiosities from the seventies, but
Speaker 2: that's more of a sketch TV show special. They did
Speaker 2: two of those. But other than those things, this is
Speaker 2: the first time these DC comics characters sand some notable
Speaker 2: exceptions like Batman, Wonder Roman, Greenlantern, we know they were
Speaker 2: not available to be used. So this was the Justice League.
Speaker 2: Predates the Marvel Cinematic Universe, it predates the DCEU, it
Speaker 2: predates the DCU right an animation. Those guys with the
Speaker 2: DC Animated Universe were killing it. The gold standard Justice
Speaker 2: League and Justice League Ulimited, which are apparently two different
Speaker 2: TV shows, but totally nail what the Justice League is
Speaker 2: all about. But in live action. This is the first
Speaker 2: and still one of the best, and to see it
Speaker 2: small villified, but like in the best way. You know,
Speaker 2: a lot of times we use that as a derogatory.
Speaker 2: You think of things like mister Mixus Pedelic or death Stroke,
Speaker 2: for example. You put the Justice League through the Smallville filter,
Speaker 2: and that's the difference between something like the Jeff Johns
Speaker 2: episodes later in the series, right where it's the Comics
Speaker 2: coming to Smallville. Right, it's the Legion of Superheroes, it's
Speaker 2: the Justice Society, it's Booster Gold. It's literally stepping out
Speaker 2: of the common Book into the world of Smallville. Those characters,
Speaker 2: those ideas, those teams. Here, it's Smallville going to the comics.
Speaker 2: It is Hey, we have these characters. We've established them
Speaker 2: all the Flash, Impulse, Aquaman, Cyborg, They've all had their
Speaker 2: own individual episodes before this. Of course, Green Arrow has
Speaker 2: been a recurring guest star the first half of season six,
Speaker 2: so you're not just meeting them for the first time
Speaker 2: here in this episode. They have pre established relationships. The
Speaker 2: interplay between them and Clark, it feels like a payoff
Speaker 2: to what you've been watching. Was this payoff necessary? No,
Speaker 2: because those individual episodes are some of the best episodes
Speaker 2: of the show, right, the Cyborg Aqua run, those are
Speaker 2: some of the best episodes of Smallville, and they would
Speaker 2: still be if they didn't team up in this Justice episode.
Speaker 2: But it feels like a culmination of things level thirty
Speaker 2: three point one activity with Lex here. We get some
Speaker 2: micotic stuff right with him and capturing Impulse and him
Speaker 2: in Green Arrow's confrontation, and this is you know, season
Speaker 2: six is the height of Lex Luthor's villainy on the show.
Speaker 2: I've said that over the years on the podcast and
Speaker 2: between what he's got going on here and what he
Speaker 2: does to Lanta, absolutely this is the height of his villainy.
Speaker 2: Of course, he does kill Lionel in season seven, so
Speaker 2: that is a that is a definite it's up there.
Speaker 2: Killing your own father is definitely on the list there.
Speaker 2: But Lex Leer does some evil, evil things, and uh yeah,
Speaker 2: he's the villain here, right, So we have our superhero team,
Speaker 2: we have a super villain. Is there a physical confrontation? No,
Speaker 2: But the way this episode plays to the strengths of
Speaker 2: all the characters that we know, the personalities, it just
Speaker 2: works so well. And as I recall, this is the
Speaker 2: first episode of Smallville that Lana Lang is it in
Speaker 2: that Kristen Kirk isn't in, and you know, Lona gets
Speaker 2: a bad rap, I think on the show. So I
Speaker 2: feel bad that so often we're like, well, there's no
Speaker 2: silly A lot of scenes in this episode, so that's
Speaker 2: a plus, you know, It's it is unfortunate because that's
Speaker 2: a character who we all love when the show started,
Speaker 2: and they did not know what to do with her,
Speaker 2: as became the case with Chloe after her and Lois
Speaker 2: in reverse, you know, like if you follow my thinking here, right,
Speaker 2: they don't know what to do with Lana after a while,
Speaker 2: they don't know what to do with Chloe after a while.
Speaker 2: They can't do what they want to do with Lois
Speaker 2: for a while. So she actually her reverse character trajectory
Speaker 2: plays to her favor because she becomes more and more
Speaker 2: than lowis we always wanted obviously in those last three
Speaker 2: seasons where characters like Lana and Chloe they just kind
Speaker 2: of fizzle out, they like outlive what their characters were.
Speaker 2: And so anyway, I say that here in season six
Speaker 2: to say, yes, this is the first episode with Allana
Speaker 2: as I recall again, unless I'm forgetting another episode she
Speaker 2: wasn't in, but I can't think of any So I
Speaker 2: feel bad that it's like, yes, finally an episode with
Speaker 2: Alana one of the best of the show according to
Speaker 2: all the number two episodes of the show. So I
Speaker 2: just I do want to say that the writing let
Speaker 2: her down. Kristen Kirk's a great actress. Alana was a
Speaker 2: good character until they started doing some crazy stuff with her. Anyway,
Speaker 2: all that to say, this is a great episode. It
Speaker 2: deserves to be in the top ten episodes of Smallville.
Speaker 2: So let's look back on what we gave justice on
Speaker 2: the letter grade scale. On the podcast Proper Justice had
Speaker 2: myself and John Lee Brody. I gave it an A
Speaker 2: plus and John gave it an A plus, So there
Speaker 2: you go again. Can't get much higher than an A plus.
Speaker 2: Literally cannot scientifically get higher than an A plus on
Speaker 2: the letter grade scale. So here on the top ten Episodes,
Speaker 2: I once again joined by Lance Laster from Always Hold
Speaker 2: On to Arrow. Now, due to scheduling, we could not
Speaker 2: assemble the majority of our panel, so Lance and I
Speaker 2: recorded together and Victoria Malee, Matt Schruix from Wilson Clark
Speaker 2: to the new podcast of Superman and many of the
Speaker 2: podcasts here on the Always Hold On To network and Patreon,
Speaker 2: and Matthew Rocca. The three of them all sent in
Speaker 2: individual thoughts to contribute to this episode, so a little
Speaker 2: different than the converse sational format we've been doing here,
Speaker 2: but I wanted to make sure that everyone's voices and
Speaker 2: opinions were heard for this one. So without further ado,
Speaker 2: let's discuss the number two episode of Smallville Justice.
Speaker 4: What would you do if one day you realized someone
Speaker 4: close to you it's been keeping.
Speaker 5: The biggest secret of val hiding is true identity from everyone.
Speaker 2: He supposedly cares out people.
Speaker 5: Keep things private for a reason.
Speaker 1: I want to spend the rest of my life with you.
Speaker 5: Will you marry me?
Speaker 6: Chloe?
Speaker 7: Lex proposed something wouldn't let me say yes?
Speaker 1: You knew she was vulnerable, and you played her until
Speaker 1: she thought she was in love with you.
Speaker 3: Must be killing you.
Speaker 1: That she's hesitating, you see. I highly doubt she'll say no, Clark.
Speaker 7: I'm pregnant. Clark.
Speaker 4: You said that you'd take a love of me anymore,
Speaker 4: and I tried to cut everything off. But I'm not
Speaker 4: made that way.
Speaker 7: Lex.
Speaker 3: Luthor's building an army.
Speaker 5: He's starting a war.
Speaker 8: You can't let that happen.
Speaker 5: Don't worry, my team's on it.
Speaker 7: Let's go save the world.
Speaker 6: Small Fair All new episodes Thursdays at eight seven Central
Speaker 6: on the new CW.
Speaker 2: Justice. Does this surprise you? Its placement on the top
Speaker 2: ten list? Not on the top ten list?
Speaker 3: I think?
Speaker 2: And we'll talk a better buy his list here in
Speaker 2: a second. Yeah, but I think most people who are
Speaker 2: fans of small Ball, and even most people who aren't,
Speaker 2: they know.
Speaker 3: About this episode.
Speaker 2: Yes, and they would say, yeah, that's a top ten episode.
Speaker 2: But being number two does that surprise you at all?
Speaker 2: It's so hot?
Speaker 1: Being number two surprises me. Being part of the top
Speaker 1: ten does not.
Speaker 3: Why is that?
Speaker 1: Because I think I think there are better episodes now,
Speaker 1: not very many because it was part of my top ten,
Speaker 1: but there are better episodes. So again, like it's placement
Speaker 1: in the top ten, I'm not questioning. I am questioning
Speaker 1: it being two because I don't think, in my personal opinion,
Speaker 1: I don't think that this is the second best episode
Speaker 1: of small though.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's go through our top ten list. Justice
Speaker 2: ranked seventh on my Top tens. It ranked tenth on
Speaker 2: her top ten list, A true bubble episode for lanceover
Speaker 2: There Right Victoria, it ranked eighth on her list. Roca
Speaker 2: ranked it ninth on his list, and Matt Truex yet
Speaker 2: again leaving these top episodes off of his top ten.
Speaker 2: Justice is nowhere to be found on his list. He
Speaker 2: did put Absolute Justice.
Speaker 1: And that's an interesting thing. I have Absolute Justice higher
Speaker 1: on my personal.
Speaker 2: You have Absolute Justice fifth, and I have Absolute Justice ninth.
Speaker 3: Okay, Trux has Absolute.
Speaker 2: Justice as eighth on his list, and Roca Victoria do
Speaker 2: not have it on their list. So for those listening
Speaker 2: at home, Justice is the one with the green Arrow
Speaker 2: and Impulse and Ackaman and Cyborg. Yes, and Absolute Justice
Speaker 2: is the two parter in season nine with.
Speaker 3: The Justice A side.
Speaker 1: I think that we kind of got it right. It's
Speaker 1: part of the top ten, but not part of the
Speaker 1: top half.
Speaker 2: It's part of the you know, right, everybody here who
Speaker 2: had it on their list had on the bottom half.
Speaker 2: And I think a reason why that is it's a
Speaker 2: great episode, but it's not Smallville in its DNA correct
Speaker 2: now that this is unrecognizable and there's a lot of
Speaker 2: continuity payoffs here, right, so that goes a long way.
Speaker 2: I mean, these were turning characters alone, it's huge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's honestly, that's the biggest deal.
Speaker 2: To see these interactions of these characters, and it is like,
Speaker 2: this is a superhero episode. It's almost and you know,
Speaker 2: it's almost like a backdoor pilot for a Justice League show,
Speaker 2: which is kind of what they were thinking. You know,
Speaker 2: they always they're always thinking about these like it's it's
Speaker 2: so weird that we've talked about this, but you look
Speaker 2: at a show like this and you're like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: Green Arrow was on the show Flash Gone, Flash was
Speaker 2: on this show. Aw Come man Cybarc All these characters.
Speaker 2: If this was the CW of twenty twelve onward, yes,
Speaker 2: all these characters that have shows, or there'd be a
Speaker 2: Justice League show of them going around the world and
Speaker 2: adventures and having like this camaraderie thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it'd be like this was Legends before Legends.
Speaker 3: They throw in the Angel of Vengeance. Yeah, just whoever.
Speaker 2: Else they got. That's a great point. That would be
Speaker 2: Legends tomorrow for Legends. This ragtag mish smash group of
Speaker 2: leftover characters Legends is it's like, who are all these
Speaker 2: characters we have? When we do some with them, it's like,
Speaker 2: let's get the Adam in here, Let's get a Firestorm,
Speaker 2: you know, the third Black Canarya, but really the first
Speaker 2: Black and area technically the fourth anyway, it's comedy. They
Speaker 2: immediately established Lana's Lana's in Paris nel shot dress Nell
Speaker 2: reference right, yeah, so she she does not appear in
Speaker 2: this episode. Nell all right, well we'll see here and
Speaker 2: promise Christian Kirk's nine in this one. There's all I mean,
Speaker 2: there's so many other characters it wouldn't go to be
Speaker 2: in place for her. You know, Martha gets you know,
Speaker 2: half a scene and a classic scene between two characters.
Speaker 2: One character literally ex ex screen left, other character inter street.
Speaker 2: But when Bart's eating all this food and Mark the
Speaker 2: maid because he has to keep his calories up, and
Speaker 2: she's like, where does it all go? You're you eat
Speaker 2: more than Clark and you're half his size.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for a lot of calories.
Speaker 2: And so she goes to like leaving, like picks up
Speaker 2: a jacket and then use that as an edit point
Speaker 2: where he's.
Speaker 3: Like, hey, Barbi, what your mind?
Speaker 1: She's cleaning up and clean and he's like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: problem is cass.
Speaker 3: It's cute.
Speaker 2: And so that's a nice half scene with her, and
Speaker 2: then Clark immediately comes here, we'll do it her Bart.
Speaker 1: Clark is yeah, He's like cut the cut, the act.
Speaker 2: Clark is so like but I like him and Superman's
Speaker 2: like means no means business. No, he's no nonsense. It
Speaker 2: means storming into places. He's treating everybody like lex AND's
Speaker 2: episode storms in accusing Bart storms in accused Oliver.
Speaker 1: Yeah, tries to do. He tries to do with the
Speaker 1: Lionel too, but then Lionel hits it with the information
Speaker 1: and that Bart's been stealing from Mexico.
Speaker 3: Storms my call. I know, Well Clark been at Lionel.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Linel. So where suspenders.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's old man, Lionel man, and he's getting older.
Speaker 2: It's just funny to see him with suspenders. He's wearing
Speaker 2: glasses too, which is which is new. I thought they'd
Speaker 2: given him the glasses after he got his eyesight back.
Speaker 2: That's not because I mean, like season one and stuff,
Speaker 2: he had glasses, but you don't only see him with
Speaker 2: glasses much after that. But I mean he had him
Speaker 2: like when he's in prison in season four though. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but they randomly decide to have lionelhigh glasses, which is
Speaker 2: like probably John Overs.
Speaker 3: He needs something to do. That's probably why he has
Speaker 3: the class.
Speaker 2: Probably Sean Glover's actual classes.
Speaker 3: He just brings some layers.
Speaker 1: Hey man, dude's a beast.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Lionel playing all the angles in this episode, right,
Speaker 2: because he's like, you know, he knows about thirty three
Speaker 2: point one alexis doing trying to stay on that side,
Speaker 2: investigating stuff lectures from this picture. He thinks it's Clark,
Speaker 2: as he would, you know, because who else would you
Speaker 2: have super speech?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't know anybody else that doesn't you know?
Speaker 2: Interesting that Clark protects park secret with everybody, because the
Speaker 2: episode starts and Chloe gets a gun pulled on and
Speaker 2: bart saves her.
Speaker 3: Correct Clark shows up, He's like, oh, what happened?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was on before when I got.
Speaker 2: Here, and so he sees Barton. He chases him, but
Speaker 2: he doesn't know.
Speaker 3: Cool. He's like, oh, you're got faster than me.
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, well he tells her later.
Speaker 3: He finally comes cleaning, right, but he's keeping a secret.
Speaker 2: He's keeping a secret. Linel was like, oh is spurs? Yeah,
Speaker 2: of course Clark doesn't tell him. It's nice that he respects,
Speaker 2: you know, the secret.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, well, well that's kind of one of the
Speaker 1: bigger things with this episode for me. Why it resonates
Speaker 1: with me, like after seeing it again recently, you know,
Speaker 1: for this podcast. You know, a big thing that goes
Speaker 1: on in this episode is Clark joins the fraternity essentially
Speaker 1: in this episode, right, And you know, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: how many of you out there are in a fraternity
Speaker 1: or in a sorority, but like there's something special about
Speaker 1: a group of individuals coming together with the same common goal,
Speaker 1: same thing, similar to like, you know, very similar to
Speaker 1: like a sports team. Like they refer to themselves as
Speaker 1: like you know, the team, right, and they all played
Speaker 1: their role, they all sorted to function, you could see,
Speaker 1: like Clark even like falls in line and like follows
Speaker 1: Oliver's lead and a lot of aspects. And so when
Speaker 1: you think about the Justice League, the Avengers, the X Men, whatever,
Speaker 1: they are a family. They're a team. And you know,
Speaker 1: especially the ones that where it's you know, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: the male dominated ones, like it's a fraternity, right, and
Speaker 1: like it and it represents the good aspects of it.
Speaker 1: I understand all the you know this this you know
Speaker 1: the stereotypes and the stuff that go along with it
Speaker 1: because you know a lot of that it's true, but
Speaker 1: there are even those moments in this as well, like
Speaker 1: like them ripping on each other, like you know for all, yeah, everybody,
Speaker 1: Like everybody's ripping on each other. Like you know the
Speaker 1: fact that everybody has nicknames these little tiny things, right,
Speaker 1: but like.
Speaker 3: It makes it different jackets to say a com Well,
Speaker 3: we'll see.
Speaker 1: We'll see they don't have line jackets, but they all
Speaker 1: have they all have have uniforms, right and so and
Speaker 1: like and also like the color coordination for everybody, so
Speaker 1: good gets.
Speaker 3: A lot of crap for these hoodies and stuff.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it's very reasonable. I agree
Speaker 2: because okay, because Oliver he's the first one. He's like, look,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you a costume that kind of looks
Speaker 2: like mine. It makes sense, yes, but it's true. Hoods
Speaker 2: interfere with facial id software. That's why when you see
Speaker 2: people go on the run they put hoodies on because
Speaker 2: it messes up you know, facial identification software.
Speaker 3: So it's really smart.
Speaker 2: And then eyes, I mean, like, yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna wear like masks and stuff because I
Speaker 2: think a Domino mask. Everybody knows that Robin Dick Grayson,
Speaker 2: Yes exactly, Yeah, that's what And that's why one of
Speaker 2: the more recent Robin costumes has a hood.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that's why Damian Wayne has a hood. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Although in Batman Dark Victory, he's like, lose the hood,
Speaker 2: you're Robin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no, not. It was an all star Batman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, yes, I think it's Victory.
Speaker 1: It's not all right, but yeah, Clark basically joining a
Speaker 1: fraternity here is pretty cool. Just the superhero action of
Speaker 1: this whole thing. I loved there.
Speaker 3: We are having my hands Dark Victory.
Speaker 1: It's not gonna be in there.
Speaker 2: Jeff Loobe and Tim sayle it's.
Speaker 1: All star Batman and Robin Frank Miller. I'm telling you
Speaker 1: right now what it is. See, this is what this is.
Speaker 1: Listeners pull, you know, pulling back the curtain even further.
Speaker 1: This is what happens a lot. I'm right about something.
Speaker 1: He goes to check, and then it proves that I'm right.
Speaker 2: You can't find the page at this time.
Speaker 1: Because it's not in Dark Victory.
Speaker 2: And on page three seventy nine, Batman says, what is
Speaker 2: that you're wearing?
Speaker 1: That's all He's says, rob keep one. It's not in
Speaker 1: Robin ear one. I love this. Speaking of hoods, Robin
Speaker 1: does have a hood in the Arkham Games, and you
Speaker 1: know you're speaking about like the Domino mass. I think
Speaker 1: the appropriate thing for Robin to wear would be something
Speaker 1: like what the Winter Soldier wore, like if he had
Speaker 1: something to coming with his face or the black goggle
Speaker 1: things that he was wearing, that would be more appropriate.
Speaker 1: He's looking again now he has Now he has his
Speaker 1: copy of Robin Year one, which, by the way, they
Speaker 1: don't really they don't sell this anymore, does not because
Speaker 1: it's not it's in all Star Batman and Robin.
Speaker 3: You know what.
Speaker 2: I don't own also Batman Robin because I like comic books,
Speaker 2: all right, you.
Speaker 1: Know, and it's a funny thing. I don't own it either,
Speaker 1: but I know what it's from.
Speaker 2: Did you sell your shoes? Yeah, because I've read your
Speaker 2: that you're the because in college I read your that's
Speaker 2: right out with part two of that. No, explain why
Speaker 2: Grayson turned to a mutant and strikes again. No, anyway,
Speaker 2: we're getting way off face here.
Speaker 1: So it ends with them prying at like at the grave.
Speaker 1: That's what That's what it ends. Well, anyway, I'm right,
Speaker 1: everybody back.
Speaker 2: On the show. Hoods right, Oliver Queen in this Justin Hartley.
Speaker 2: It's just doing his Justin Harlly thing. He doesn't what
Speaker 2: who does best?
Speaker 3: Right? And that's one of my favorite friends lying in
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 1: Right, what I'll do best? I think I say that
Speaker 1: to you like in like text, like all the time,
Speaker 1: I'll send that for like Shorthand. It's it's again feeling
Speaker 1: about the curtain.
Speaker 2: More this episode. It is his last appearance on the
Speaker 2: show for a while. He makes one appearance in season
Speaker 2: seven to set up his romance with the black canary,
Speaker 2: Yes Siren, and then they decide not to do that
Speaker 2: because it's a live action adaptation of Greener. Oh, so
Speaker 2: he doesn't end up with a black canary. Small hold
Speaker 2: did it first? So he winds up with a blonde
Speaker 2: tech girl. I love the scene where he's like, well
Speaker 2: we should go on a break and she's like, well
Speaker 2: do you what do you mean like to you other people?
Speaker 2: And and I think he really didn't mean going to break.
Speaker 2: He's like, oh, she took you wrong. I'm gonna pivot
Speaker 2: you friends references.
Speaker 3: Pivot we were all all break we were all all
Speaker 3: break friends references for all you out there.
Speaker 2: And he's like, oh, well, I meant like you and
Speaker 2: me want to break together and we go to vacation.
Speaker 2: It's great, that's classic. I do this stuff all the time.
Speaker 3: Put them out there. It doesn't go well.
Speaker 2: Just you spin, you pivot, you adapt, turn your handicap
Speaker 2: into a handy able to go jeff lie. So anyway,
Speaker 2: that was just a funny scene. And yeah, and so
Speaker 2: he and He's gone. They go to save the world
Speaker 2: after this. Yes, and then you're like, oh, well, surely
Speaker 2: they'll show up in the season finale to fight phantom
Speaker 2: z Owners. You know, yeah, but but but no, there's
Speaker 2: a tightian comic book that shows their adventures. Also, I
Speaker 2: love how you know, Oliver's like, what the hell are
Speaker 2: we doing?
Speaker 3: Clark?
Speaker 2: Basically I had something else going on.
Speaker 1: Okay, I had another problem.
Speaker 2: I do love the exposition dumpson here and watching these
Speaker 2: out of context, it is helpful. I'm not gonna lie like.
Speaker 2: I'm all about arc storytelling. Smavel had a pretty good
Speaker 2: balance of the continuing the story but yet episodic where
Speaker 2: you can watch things in a vacuum. They still work,
Speaker 2: right Because Clark and Chloyer catch up in the barn,
Speaker 2: He's like, well, you know, with.
Speaker 3: The Phantom's owners, and like, oh yeah, coming.
Speaker 2: On, and you know, a couple of reverences Salana and
Speaker 2: Lex being engaged. So whenever Clark has interact with other
Speaker 2: heroes is great. They lean heavily on his relationship with Bart. Yes,
Speaker 2: you know, they spent a lot, like the first part
Speaker 2: of the episode is about that, which is great because
Speaker 2: that was such a.
Speaker 1: Well, it was a strong relationship. But also like they
Speaker 1: had to like reconnect because they haven't seen him in
Speaker 1: two years, right, and I doubt they've like kept in
Speaker 1: touch and like sent emails or anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it shows like this when characters show up,
Speaker 2: it's like they're like sometimes they've been in contact. Both
Speaker 2: times they haven't because if they had been in contact,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be thinking, oh what have you been doing?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: But you need that on screen, you do so.
Speaker 1: And like and he has that moment like quickly like
Speaker 1: you know, like with the other heroes later, like when
Speaker 1: they're in in the Oliver's loft, My.
Speaker 3: Team's already on it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, team team, and like you know, and then you know,
Speaker 1: the famous Jet Jackson shows up and and uh you
Speaker 1: know Hawk, Yeah, like he shows up and he has
Speaker 1: a little moment with them, like each of them, like.
Speaker 3: And they say how they came to Oliver.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like at the same time, it's like it's establishing
Speaker 1: the fact that, like, oh, Clark knows them. It's like
Speaker 1: when you meet somebody who's like, oh, but like I
Speaker 1: was friends with them, and then but you're friends with them. Also. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's worlds colliding.
Speaker 2: It's pretty Steven Us Tonight went on to Your Daredevil
Speaker 2: after this. Obviously Spartacus the TV show. Yes, all right,
Speaker 2: much acclaim over there a lot of Arrow actors like
Speaker 2: Trina Law and man who did it?
Speaker 3: Actors like that.
Speaker 1: I sent the a Die Robinson to.
Speaker 2: The third best live action Amanda Walter. Yeah, really smart storytelling,
Speaker 2: really efficient, you know, and uh but yeah, Steven has
Speaker 2: Tonight one of the best writers on Small Villain director too.
Speaker 3: This is well directed EISO.
Speaker 2: A lot of low angle shots of the heroes and
Speaker 2: all that stuff, Like, there was a lot of cool
Speaker 2: visuals here.
Speaker 3: Obviously, of course, the.
Speaker 2: Cool guys don't look at exposure. Absolutely right, go google
Speaker 2: that the great snl skit from quite a few years ago.
Speaker 2: You know, every action movie of all time has the
Speaker 2: guy slowly walking away. Absolutely the most iconic shots in Smallville.
Speaker 2: It really is like whenever it's like, whenever there's some
Speaker 2: kind of like article about Smallville in a magazine.
Speaker 3: Or a website, they use this image.
Speaker 2: This is this is the image, and it's all them
Speaker 2: first of all, though their hood should still be up
Speaker 2: because clearly someone gets to see them like one of
Speaker 2: likes his people. Why is it Oliver in the middle,
Speaker 2: I don't know. Reminds me of our small Lit cast picture.
Speaker 1: I know you're gonna say that. I know you're gonna
Speaker 1: say that.
Speaker 2: Last night I got the photo was the rolled Austin Yes,
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen with the cast of Smallville. Yes, And you
Speaker 2: know he was the line first, so he got kind
Speaker 2: of were in front of me. Yeah, and he's in
Speaker 2: the center of the picture. Like I'm gonna have to
Speaker 2: get my own picture with no one else for me
Speaker 2: in it. I'm the star of this show.
Speaker 3: See got today.
Speaker 2: You think you're Clark, but he really lacks everybody, all right,
Speaker 2: So that's what it's all about there. But anyway, I
Speaker 2: thought about that, it was like, why is Clark in
Speaker 2: the middle. It's Oliver's team, right? Talking about getting recognized though, yeah, right,
Speaker 2: because like Lex talks and line all day and He's
Speaker 2: like the card described someone very much like Clark kid.
Speaker 2: I'm thinking to myself, what do they say, Like it
Speaker 2: was like a dog. He's like six du like a
Speaker 2: red jacket and a blue shirt, kind of a dopey
Speaker 2: looking guy from the top and he sells line is
Speaker 2: like Clark, oh, Martha.
Speaker 1: Last night, it's so good. That's one of my.
Speaker 3: Favorite three and you know stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So anyway, and like, I just love Lex's face of that,
Speaker 1: Like he's so defeated. The fact that Lex believes it,
Speaker 1: in the fact that Lionel just had that ready to
Speaker 1: go to use is brilliant.
Speaker 2: Well he doesn't think that. Why would Lionel at this
Speaker 2: point in the show, right, protect Clark over me? Right,
Speaker 2: He's like, well, he has no reason to lie to
Speaker 2: me about it exactly. And I know he's all about
Speaker 2: the kids. So I guess that does track.
Speaker 1: Uh huh gets so close? Yeah, so close, so good.
Speaker 2: So but yeah, yeah, the the green Arrow Oliver Queen
Speaker 2: Lex Uth rival.
Speaker 3: He continues here.
Speaker 1: I liked how they showed Oliver like using like an actual.
Speaker 3: The little arrow gun. I was like, did he not?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Too many times in Smallville, Like he uses the
Speaker 1: like the little crossbow gun and it's like, it's annoying.
Speaker 1: This is one of the things that you got to
Speaker 1: give Arrow tons of credit for. And Steven mil like
Speaker 1: he's using a bow and arrow.
Speaker 2: I mean he's Batman light in this and I'm small
Speaker 2: that's the green Arrow row.
Speaker 3: But that's the character character.
Speaker 2: That's it's it's meta because it works because green Arrow
Speaker 2: was a ripoff of Batman looking at an arrow car
Speaker 2: and an arrow k which makes no sense.
Speaker 3: Of aeroplane aero plane arrow signal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so whenever cycles Batman.
Speaker 2: They use green Arrow, and I'm fine with that because
Speaker 2: of the inception of the character. But yeah, Justice right,
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously one of the greatest episodes of Smallville
Speaker 2: set the tone for lots of superhero things to come. Uh,
Speaker 2: there is a Green Arrow show, now, Yes, there is
Speaker 2: a Flash TV show. There is an Aquaman movie that
Speaker 2: made a billion dollars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a there's Cyborg in a Justice League film.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cyberg in the Justice League film, Cyborg and the
Speaker 2: Team Titan show Cyborg of course, and all the Team
Speaker 2: Titans cartoons already. Yeah, but Cyborg in the in the
Speaker 2: new fifty two Justice League, Like this.
Speaker 3: Really puts in Setrol and you know, oh, that's what
Speaker 3: I meant.
Speaker 2: The teen Titan showed Doom Patrol, right, But this put
Speaker 2: in Cyberg more in the mainstream because people well, of
Speaker 2: course he been on small before, which helped, but then
Speaker 2: him along with these character just kind of elevated him
Speaker 2: to the status because he was a Team Titan and
Speaker 2: now he's up here with the flash quote unquote, Yeah.
Speaker 3: He could to pick his name either, right, that's really good.
Speaker 2: It's like meta, well done, yep, WB with his name.
Speaker 3: Black Salutor's building an army. You can't let that happen.
Speaker 6: Don't worry.
Speaker 7: My team's on it.
Speaker 6: Your team, not everybody.
Speaker 1: Blay Solo can.
Speaker 7: Let's go save the world.
Speaker 6: Smallville followed by Supernatural. All the episodes this Thursday at
Speaker 6: eight seventh Central on the new CW.
Speaker 4: Hello everyone, it's Victoria here to share my thoughts on
Speaker 4: everyone's number two favorite episode of Smallville, Justice and I
Speaker 4: can totally see why this is everyone's, you know, one
Speaker 4: of everyone's top faves after rewatching it just now, I
Speaker 4: think it's the perfect balance and small though they don't
Speaker 4: always hit strike this, but when they do it is
Speaker 4: so good. It's the perfect balance of you know, this
Speaker 4: world that we've built in small Vell, this pre Superman world,
Speaker 4: and also balancing it with Superman and all the things
Speaker 4: we love about Superman, and one of the things we
Speaker 4: love about Superman is.
Speaker 9: The Justice League.
Speaker 4: And I think they did such a good job here
Speaker 4: in this episode of showing it in its nascent stages.
Speaker 4: I also realized while I was watching it just how
Speaker 4: brilliant it was, and I have to commend them, And
Speaker 4: I think this is one of the great parts of
Speaker 4: television that sometimes movies they don't have this luxury unless
Speaker 4: you're the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which wasn't even I don't
Speaker 4: think really conceived of at this time. I think this
Speaker 4: episode came out in like two thousand and six, two
Speaker 4: thousand and seven. Was they really took their time with
Speaker 4: introducing every member of the Justice League, and every member
Speaker 4: of the Justice League had their own episode, and you know,
Speaker 4: obviously in Oliver's case, there was more, he had a
Speaker 4: whole half season arc. But I think that was great
Speaker 4: that they made us really wait for it, and they
Speaker 4: laid the groundwork so none of the characters, you know,
Speaker 4: when when you brought them all together, none of them
Speaker 4: felt like caricatures or incomplete characters. You had the time
Speaker 4: to get to know them throughout the duration of the series,
Speaker 4: so that when they all came together, we could just
Speaker 4: really enjoy how they played off each other and their
Speaker 4: dynamic working together. That was my I think what we
Speaker 4: all love about it, And I think they did it
Speaker 4: in a way where you get to see everyone's powers,
Speaker 4: but still you know they're bouncing it with the word
Speaker 4: world of small thol where they're not. No one is
Speaker 4: really operating at full power, which is great, which is
Speaker 4: what you want. I mean, you don't. It's you know,
Speaker 4: it's no flight snow tight Superman before he was Superman.
Speaker 4: I think if they'd kind of gone all out and
Speaker 4: everyone was you know, peak Awquaamen, peak Cyborg, peak flash
Speaker 4: peak Superman, it almost would have felt jarring. So I
Speaker 4: just have to commend the writers and the directors and
Speaker 4: everyone involved in that episode on really keeping things like
Speaker 4: coherent and cohesive.
Speaker 9: To the show.
Speaker 4: You know something, though, I think it was great that
Speaker 4: they did a really good job of showing everyone's talents.
Speaker 4: I almost wish there was more Clark in this. I
Speaker 4: feel like Clark was kind of passive and I wish
Speaker 4: he had had a more active role. And I get it,
Speaker 4: you want like the guest stars to shine like Clark's.
Speaker 9: Here every week.
Speaker 4: But I think that was one thing I was lacking
Speaker 4: when I was watching the episode, is I wish that
Speaker 4: Clark would have been able to work with them more.
Speaker 4: And I know that's like also the Justice Leagues complaint
Speaker 4: that they were like Clark, we wish you would work
Speaker 4: with us more. We wish you were more of a
Speaker 4: team player. But yeah, that was like my one small
Speaker 4: kind of structural complaint. I always I love Bart Allen.
Speaker 4: I love him, and this depiction of the character. I
Speaker 4: think my love for Kyle Gallener's performance of him is
Speaker 4: like a big reason why I don't think I could
Speaker 4: ever totally like commit to the Flash. I also think
Speaker 4: it's because I knew Grant Gustin from Glee and I
Speaker 4: was like, wait, no, this is You're not Sebastian, You're
Speaker 4: not acting like this character I originally knew you as
Speaker 4: I just love him. It was heartbreaking to see Lee
Speaker 4: Thompson Young, another actor who I knew from another TV show,
Speaker 4: but I thought he did a great job playing Cyborg
Speaker 4: and Victor. I knew him from the famous Judd Jackson.
Speaker 4: I don't know if anyone else remembers that, like deep
Speaker 4: cut Disney Show and then you know again, it just
Speaker 4: cracks me up with Justin Hartley because he will always
Speaker 4: be my green arrow and nothing against Steven Emmel, but
Speaker 4: he was such an achievement. The fact that they were
Speaker 4: able to pull off a crossover it like this, and
Speaker 4: I think, you know, up until then, people thought it
Speaker 4: couldn't be done. I'm thinking like now, like I'm just
Speaker 4: thinking of superhero movies that were out the time. I
Speaker 4: think that was really when people were running into like
Speaker 4: two villainitis, and people were trying to outdo the last movie,
Speaker 4: outdo the last sequel, and make it bigger and bigger
Speaker 4: and bigger, and it didn't always work. I think of
Speaker 4: one of my like my favorite superhero trilogy of all time,
Speaker 4: spider Man The Og spider Man like that. This is
Speaker 4: a small Bull podcast, not a spider Man three podcasts,
Speaker 4: so we won't really dive into that. That was a
Speaker 4: big problem with I think that movie is that they
Speaker 4: tried to do too much. And I think it's the
Speaker 4: huge achievement of this episode and of this series up
Speaker 4: until this point that they really took the time laying
Speaker 4: out these characters, and then when they brought them together,
Speaker 4: they really did it well, and I absolutely love that. Also,
Speaker 4: one thing that it was kind of missing, and I
Speaker 4: get that it's kind of it was Chloe. Really this
Speaker 4: was Chloe's like first real step into being watch Tower,
Speaker 4: and I definitely clocked that this was like the first
Speaker 4: time that I called her it. But I wished that
Speaker 4: she could have been in the action more. I wish,
Speaker 4: honestly that Lois could have been in the action war.
Speaker 4: I was kind of frustrated that she was just on
Speaker 4: the sidelines, being like, I'm gonna pack for a trip
Speaker 4: with Oli her, like, just because they do such a
Speaker 4: good job on the series of making Lois when she's
Speaker 4: in the action, she's in the action and she's not
Speaker 4: sitting on the sidelines. So I was slightly frustrated that
Speaker 4: she was on the sidelines for this. And I'd forgotten
Speaker 4: that this was like the episode that kind of wrapped
Speaker 4: up Green Arrows aark in small Ville season six, and
Speaker 4: that this is the episode that him and Love was
Speaker 4: split up in.
Speaker 9: But I thought it was done.
Speaker 4: It was so CW acting, but like on the spectrum
Speaker 4: of CW acting. It wasn't like heinous like they did
Speaker 4: they you know, stuck in the genre without doing it,
Speaker 4: without overdoing it, because I think Erica and Justin are
Speaker 4: both fantastic actors. But yeah, it was funny. It was
Speaker 4: very kind of like just a tad like, oh no, oh,
Speaker 4: we could never be together. This is the moment when
Speaker 4: I'm throwing I'm gonna regret.
Speaker 9: For the rest of my life, isn't it.
Speaker 4: I was like, oh my god. But I also think
Speaker 4: it was good kind of foreshadowing and precursor to the
Speaker 4: big conundrum, to this conundrum of Lois's life and her
Speaker 4: love life and her biggest romantic relationships she will have
Speaker 4: in her life is with a superhero and facing this
Speaker 4: problem of I did love Oliver's line when he mentioned
Speaker 4: that he's like, there are bigger things than what I
Speaker 4: want and what I love and trying to reconcile that.
Speaker 4: I think this was like a good little microcosm of it.
Speaker 4: I just think it wasn't quite as satisfying to me
Speaker 4: because it wasn't Lois and Clark, who are my DC
Speaker 4: endgame for sure. I also think another thing that I
Speaker 4: really enjoyed about this was the Luthers obviously, but I
Speaker 4: felt like, because who doesn't enjoy the Luthers when they're own?
Speaker 4: Also the fact there was no Lana like bless because
Speaker 4: this is when I again I was I had to
Speaker 4: be reminded, like, oh right, season six, this is like
Speaker 4: the season of Lexana. And I loved that Lana was
Speaker 4: wedding dress shopping and like not in the picture for
Speaker 4: this for this since because I feel like this was
Speaker 4: the season that Lana really just tanked as a character
Speaker 4: and this was someone who loved her in the first
Speaker 4: season and second season and third season, and I think
Speaker 4: season four is really when we started running into some problems.
Speaker 4: But I think that's another fun thing is we really
Speaker 4: get to see the heroes being the heroes, and we
Speaker 4: really get to see Lex being the villain. And when
Speaker 4: he trapped Bart in that like weird prison thing where
Speaker 4: the tank with the or cage or whatever you want
Speaker 4: to call it, with the with the heated or like
Speaker 4: the shocking floor, I thought to myself, I was like,
Speaker 4: that's so comic book, But it was so fun and
Speaker 4: satisfying to see, and it was smart and had this
Speaker 4: level of ingenuity that you want from Lex Luthor, like again,
Speaker 4: we were going kind of full comic book crossover with this,
Speaker 4: and they did it in a way that was super
Speaker 4: fun but still like grounded and felt appropriate to the show.
Speaker 4: And it was fun to see Lionel kind of be
Speaker 4: the double agent on each side and provide the that
Speaker 4: all important alibi at the end of the episode to
Speaker 4: Lex saying that he was having dinner with Clark and
Speaker 4: that's why he there was no way he could have
Speaker 4: been involved with the little the rendezvous that Justice League
Speaker 4: had had. Yeah, I just thought it was I get it, like,
Speaker 4: it's a super fun episode we get to see, you know,
Speaker 4: the series, you know, teases out these moments of like
Speaker 4: full on superheroing, and this was a moment that really
Speaker 4: felt earned and was super fun and satisfying to watch,
Speaker 4: And I just I had a blast watching it, And again,
Speaker 4: I was reminded of a lot of the reasons why
Speaker 4: I love this show and and why I remember being
Speaker 4: totally exhilarated watching it. I think I watched I did
Speaker 4: watch it on TV you know when it aired, and
Speaker 4: it was just totally fun and it recaptured some of
Speaker 4: that nostalgia for me. And yeah, I do wish Clark
Speaker 4: would have been a little more active, but I do
Speaker 4: understand why they they ultimately chose not to, And it
Speaker 4: also felt like like congruous with this character, like he
Speaker 4: was alone, he's very used to being a lone wolf,
Speaker 4: and he had trust issues which are founded. And also
Speaker 4: I think what really helped was that he had when
Speaker 4: he had to say, like, no, guys, I can't come
Speaker 4: with you.
Speaker 9: It wasn't just because he's like, I'm a lone wolf
Speaker 9: and this show is called Smallville and I'm not allowed
Speaker 9: to really leave Smallville. But I think also having the
Speaker 9: Phantom Zone kind of overarching plot really helped ground and
Speaker 9: kind of substantiate the no from Clark. For me, when
Speaker 9: he had to say no, I'd be like, guys, I
Speaker 9: can't go with you, Like there's I have like my
Speaker 9: own personal fish to fry that fell real to me.
Speaker 9: And also like I do wish there had been something
Speaker 9: more with Bart and Chloe, because I feel like Chloe
Speaker 9: has suffered so long that she deserves some like wholesome
Speaker 9: for real like superhero wooing. So they're a ship that.
Speaker 4: I guess I will continue to ship, unsuccessfully or not,
Speaker 4: out of a non kinonship that I will continue to
Speaker 4: Captain Bart and Chloe. But yeah, I thought I get it, guys,
Speaker 4: Like it was a super fun episode. It was great
Speaker 4: to revisit, and I think it's an example of the
Speaker 4: show very much at its best. That's all I got
Speaker 4: to say about it. All right, this has been Victoria
Speaker 4: signing off.
Speaker 3: Lex Salutter's building an army.
Speaker 8: We can't let that happen.
Speaker 5: Don't worry.
Speaker 4: My team's on it.
Speaker 1: Your team, not everybody who was so low Kate.
Speaker 7: Let's go to save the world Smallville.
Speaker 6: All new episode next Thursday on the New CW.
Speaker 5: Hey everybody, Matt Trix here. Sorry I couldn't join for
Speaker 5: this episode. Very sorry honestly, because this is I mean,
Speaker 5: I'm sure it's been covered, but this is one that
Speaker 5: feels so pivotal to Smallville, and especially kind of like
Speaker 5: a backdoor pilot for later seasons. I did want to
Speaker 5: just throw out some favorite things and do a little
Speaker 5: personal story here, so as far as favorite things go,
Speaker 5: First of all, the episode, especially when it gets going
Speaker 5: at the Ridge Facility, looks so good, like they really
Speaker 5: took the extra time of the cinematography on this. I
Speaker 5: was just rewatching that whole Ridge Facility sequence and it's
Speaker 5: really impressive. Like I really love the moments where like
Speaker 5: Oliver or Clark are like smoking in or smoking out,
Speaker 5: like literally through the fog that seems to be always
Speaker 5: pumping through a Luther Corp hall away like those. So
Speaker 5: that's just a very random detail that I think I
Speaker 5: helped the episode a lot. Lex is full on villain here,
Speaker 5: and I know at this point he has held various
Speaker 5: members of our little Justice League captive like this before.
Speaker 5: But just watching him, like his banter with Bart and
Speaker 5: the whole like, you know, I want a ponytail of
Speaker 5: it all is really cool. And then the confrontation again
Speaker 5: with Oliver is also exactly what it should be, especially
Speaker 5: as Oliver like Batman's out of the scene at the
Speaker 5: end and hits him just enough to like clip his
Speaker 5: cheek like that with the arrow.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 5: Also love the introduction of Chloe as Watchtower of course,
Speaker 5: and all the code names you know, boy Scout and
Speaker 5: all that. Also just crazy to hear Oliver straight up
Speaker 5: saying like Cyborg and Aquaman, it's cool that they kind
Speaker 5: of got to that. And the banter between the heroes
Speaker 5: here is straight out of something like Justice League International
Speaker 5: or even some of the current stuff with just like
Speaker 5: you know, Ken Opener and look good in a bag
Speaker 5: of green beans. Like I love that Justin Hartley takes
Speaker 5: a moment to like smile at that line when Cyborg
Speaker 5: says her because it's just it feels like work friends,
Speaker 5: you know, like it feels like they've done this before.
Speaker 5: I also love Clark having to hear like one hundred
Speaker 5: percent assurance from Chloe before he agrees to letting the
Speaker 5: facility blow. But even more than that, like one missed
Speaker 5: opportunity I feel in this is like as she's watching
Speaker 5: the heat signature and she's watching that facility go up
Speaker 5: in flames, I so wish there had been five, just
Speaker 5: like slowly walking heat signatures escape in the building, like
Speaker 5: watching them slow mo out of there, Like what she
Speaker 5: must have thought if she saw them walking so slowly
Speaker 5: as this thing like erupts into hell, you know anyway,
Speaker 5: And also, like beyond the superhero stuff, I really really
Speaker 5: love the Lois and Allie breakup scene. Say what you
Speaker 5: want about the fact that Lois has made out with
Speaker 5: most of the Justice League at this point, but I
Speaker 5: really liked the writing here and Oliver is like this
Speaker 5: is the moment, isn't it like that whole line exchange
Speaker 5: always stuck with me, like since the first time this
Speaker 5: episode aired. Really it's stupid and it's it's melodramatic and
Speaker 5: all that, but it's good. It just kind of stuck
Speaker 5: in my head. Anyway. The hype around this episode was
Speaker 5: so real at the time, and then the fact that
Speaker 5: it resulted in a new wave of action figures and
Speaker 5: you know, the whole team like that was very cool.
Speaker 5: I remember those photos coming out of Comic Con of
Speaker 5: like Justin Hartley leaning down with I think they were
Speaker 5: just unpainted prototypes at the time of the figures, but
Speaker 5: I'm pretty sure that hip crypt on site that summer
Speaker 5: and excited all of us. On that note, the action
Speaker 5: figures just a small thing. Like I grew up in
Speaker 5: Jersey and my comic book store was Jay and Silent
Speaker 5: Bob's secret stash before it became the secret stash of
Speaker 5: comic book men, and I wasn't able to get up
Speaker 5: there when the figures released, But like a few months
Speaker 5: later I got up there and was asking about them,
Speaker 5: and Mike Zapsick made like a big hairy deal and
Speaker 5: gave me a huge eye roll and ran down to
Speaker 5: the basement and pulled up the figures and I bought
Speaker 5: it wasn't the whole team. Sorry to impulse in Cyborg,
Speaker 5: but I just got Clark and Oliver and Ac. I'll
Speaker 5: just always remember that. For whatever reason, every time I
Speaker 5: watch Colic Book Man, I just think of like Mike's
Speaker 5: eye roll, as this young kid is coming into his
Speaker 5: Collic Book store and just asking for action figures of
Speaker 5: not even like Colic Book stuff of just like this
Speaker 5: Smallville action figures please or anyway, such a great episode,
Speaker 5: and again kind of heralds what volume three of Smallville's
Speaker 5: really like when we get to the Metropolis years and
Speaker 5: watch Tower in full effect and all that. But look
Speaker 5: forward to the end of our Smallville countdown here and
Speaker 5: thanks for listening. Take it away, Zach and Panel.
Speaker 8: The Superman legend begins in a place called Smallville.
Speaker 5: Do you ever feel like your life was supposed to
Speaker 5: be something different?
Speaker 8: Secrets?
Speaker 1: I don't want any record that I was here.
Speaker 8: Loyalty, I never bet against Claire Kent betrayal.
Speaker 6: What do you want the world?
Speaker 8: Missus Kent Yestiny.
Speaker 5: Maybe it's time I stop running from who I really am.
Speaker 8: Now you can every Action Pack Episode two. Are you
Speaker 8: plus never before seen Bonus features small Ville pone seasons
Speaker 8: one through six on DBD.
Speaker 7: Hello everyone, this is Matthew Rocca and I'm here to
Speaker 7: discuss the incredibly epic episode of season six Smallville, that
Speaker 7: is Justice. It's great to be here, even from my
Speaker 7: fortress of solitude. I just had a few, well a
Speaker 7: lot of things to discuss with the episode Justice. I
Speaker 7: love it. It's one of my favorite Smallville episodes. So one
Speaker 7: of the first things that hit me when I was
Speaker 7: rewatching it was, well, I mean, this is something that
Speaker 7: I always think about when I ever watched this episode,
Speaker 7: and even when I saw it the way back in
Speaker 7: I think it was two thousand and six or seven
Speaker 7: when it aired, this hit occurred to me even back then.
Speaker 7: It's just the idea that Smallville had really come into
Speaker 7: its own as a comic book show at this point.
Speaker 7: And what I mean by that is that, you know,
Speaker 7: season one through season two was more about the relationships.
Speaker 7: It was more about Clark and his parents, Clark and Laana,
Speaker 7: Clark and Lex and all these beautiful relationships that formed
Speaker 7: the foundation of the show. So it was more of
Speaker 7: a relationship drama, and it was more it happened to
Speaker 7: have superpowers in it, But that wasn't like the draw
Speaker 7: I guess. I mean, maybe it was for a lot
Speaker 7: of people. For me, it wasn't because, as I've said
Speaker 7: numerous times, I didn't know anything about comic books at
Speaker 7: that time. But as a show progressed, I found this
Speaker 7: really interesting progression. And me and my buddy, who love
Speaker 7: you know, he's not so into comic book stuff anymore.
Speaker 7: I still am, but we grew up loving this stuff.
Speaker 7: And me the observation while ago that when the show aired,
Speaker 7: had just the way that Smallwood kind of become like
Speaker 7: a niche comic book thing for comic book fans. And
Speaker 7: because when you get to I guess you could say
Speaker 7: past season four, and you start getting into like season five,
Speaker 7: you get you know, Brainiac, and you get all these
Speaker 7: different sci fi elements and Linel Possessed and you know
Speaker 7: Zod and you know, all these different things that tap
Speaker 7: really into the mythology. Well like that the Fortress of Solitude.
Speaker 7: I've said this before, but season five was kind of
Speaker 7: like this huge turning point in that way. So then
Speaker 7: you get around into season six and it's like Clark
Speaker 7: is going out there, He's fighting phantoms, owners, dealing with
Speaker 7: Oliver Queen, and here we finally have the formation of
Speaker 7: the Justice League. And I feel like this episode just
Speaker 7: really it felt like this understanding from the show almost
Speaker 7: that this is what they are here now on television
Speaker 7: to do, Like they had their own niche thing to
Speaker 7: do back when it was like the beginning of the
Speaker 7: show and the WB and all the wholesome magic of
Speaker 7: that which was so beautiful. And now the show has
Speaker 7: evolved so much, and the network had evolved, and the
Speaker 7: times had started to, you know, shift a little bit
Speaker 7: a little bit more in favor of comic books, though
Speaker 7: not that much. Small Ville was still kind of paving
Speaker 7: the way for that, but it seemed like at this point,
Speaker 7: Justice was like this revelation almost of like, Aha, this
Speaker 7: is what Smallville's role is right now, this is what
Speaker 7: we do best now, better than anyone on TV or
Speaker 7: at that time, better than even anything in the movies
Speaker 7: in terms of comic books in my opinion. So it
Speaker 7: was like it there was no Lana in this episode.
Speaker 7: And I don't say that to disparage Christian Kruic or
Speaker 7: Lana or anything like that. I know a lot of
Speaker 7: people like pick On Lana as a character, but it
Speaker 7: did feel kind of like, you know, in season six,
Speaker 7: she was kind of her character was shoehorned into a
Speaker 7: lot of plots, and it became a little bit tiresome,
Speaker 7: especially with the whole you know, lex of it all,
Speaker 7: because for Lexo, it's like his development was he had
Speaker 7: this great downward spiral in season five that was really
Speaker 7: paving the way for comic book lex and it was awesome.
Speaker 7: And then he's with Lana in season six, and at
Speaker 7: the beginning of season six it is kind of like,
Speaker 7: I don't know where this is going, but just then
Speaker 7: you get Justice. It's like, Okay, Lana's in Paris with
Speaker 7: Nell shopping for a wedding dress. You know, lex just
Speaker 7: has that little throwaway line, and it just to me
Speaker 7: is kind of like the writers just being like, all right,
Speaker 7: none of the Laana nonsense, none of the drama, you know,
Speaker 7: relationship drama. Nope, that's not what this episode is about.
Speaker 7: This whole thing. It's all about the comic bookness of
Speaker 7: it all. We've got the Justice League, got the evil
Speaker 7: lex Luthor thirty three point one, like boom, let's go.
Speaker 7: I love that this episode brings back Bart and it
Speaker 7: brings back Arthur, and it brings back Victor, and that
Speaker 7: Oliver is the leader of this whole thing, and it
Speaker 7: really struck me as very batman esque in that way,
Speaker 7: you know, Oliver being the man with the resources and
Speaker 7: you know, sort of the do whatever it takes kind
Speaker 7: of mentality like that, you know, And so I really
Speaker 7: loved that about the episode. I loved that again so
Speaker 7: all it was so ahead of its time, and I
Speaker 7: just love to point that out. This was way like
Speaker 7: before MCU, right, and you had Smallville doing this concept
Speaker 7: of slowly introducing characters in different episodes and slowly building
Speaker 7: up to the formation of the team. They did that
Speaker 7: way before MCU. They did that way before or you know,
Speaker 7: anything like that was really being done in movies or TV.
Speaker 7: It was really just such an interesting, like exciting time
Speaker 7: to be a fan of all this stuff and for
Speaker 7: Smallville to really be like the trail Blazer like that,
Speaker 7: it was really incredible. It was also great because every
Speaker 7: episode that introduced one of the heroes before, you really
Speaker 7: got to know the character, and I felt like each
Speaker 7: actor was perfectly cast as that role, and you know,
Speaker 7: you almost felt like they were family, like you really
Speaker 7: got to know them in just in one episode. For
Speaker 7: each of them, you got to kind of love their character,
Speaker 7: and so when they all came together, it was like, Oh,
Speaker 7: this is so cool. It's like that, you know, a
Speaker 7: family for a family outside of a family for Clark,
Speaker 7: like people who have abilities like him, who aren't meteor freaks,
Speaker 7: who aren't going off and killing people. You know, it's
Speaker 7: a bunch of like minded people who want to help
Speaker 7: the world, and that was really awesome. I love that
Speaker 7: Lex is the threat that they all have to come
Speaker 7: together to stop. To me, it really solidified the idea
Speaker 7: that Lex is officially the villain of the story at
Speaker 7: this point in the series, and that was so much fun.
Speaker 7: You know. Thirty three point one plot was one of
Speaker 7: my favorite subplots of the show, and I'm really glad
Speaker 7: that they didn't just drop it in season four like
Speaker 7: they originally planned to, but they brought it back and
Speaker 7: had Lex be really like the start of like evil
Speaker 7: mad scientists mastermind. Lex was thirty three point one to me,
Speaker 7: and just seeing the psychopathic neglect of human lives, even
Speaker 7: if they're meteor freaks, the callousness that he was had
Speaker 7: to just throw them in these cells and be building
Speaker 7: like an army, as Oliver says, to start a war.
Speaker 7: It was just like, Wow, he's gone off the deep end.
Speaker 7: And I love it because it's totally comic book Lex,
Speaker 7: and I love that. That's what brought the Justice League
Speaker 7: together for this mission. On that note, rewatching it, one
Speaker 7: of the things struck me as really comical and you know,
Speaker 7: kind of a disservice in a way to Clark, but
Speaker 7: was just how Clark was written in the episode at
Speaker 7: times that he was kind of a jerk to you know,
Speaker 7: he didn't give Bart a chance, just like, oh, you're
Speaker 7: stealing from Lex, you know, and like Clark knows what
Speaker 7: Lex is like now, you know, So he was kind
Speaker 7: of sanctimonious to him a little bit, and then you know,
Speaker 7: he then storms in and yells it all over, and
Speaker 7: then Oliver puts him in his place and reminds him
Speaker 7: about thirty three point one, and later on Clark kind
Speaker 7: of just barges into thirty three point one right into
Speaker 7: the media rocks. The group has to save him, and
Speaker 7: then even after they save him, he's kind of like,
Speaker 7: I don't know, he kind of has this attitude where
Speaker 7: it's like only if he says, it's okay, well, they
Speaker 7: blow up the building, you know, even though he hasn't
Speaker 7: been part of the team. So me and my mom
Speaker 7: were rewatching it and we were kind of laughing, like,
Speaker 7: who does Clark think he is? You know, he hasn't
Speaker 7: even been part of this team, you know, But it's fine,
Speaker 7: it's funny. It is keeping in character with Clark as
Speaker 7: we've seen him in the show. And you know, he
Speaker 7: is still young, he's still kind of immature at certain points.
Speaker 7: He's trying to do the right thing, but he's flawed,
Speaker 7: you know, He's views the world and still this kind
Speaker 7: of black and white way.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 7: I like that, you know, it foreshadows some of the
Speaker 7: conflict that they'll have amongst him and Oliver and the
Speaker 7: Justice League later in the show, which is nice. And
Speaker 7: I do think that Clark's naive way of looking at
Speaker 7: the world is very much like Superman's strength and his weakness.
Speaker 7: So I really did like that this episode really promised
Speaker 7: something big with Clark in the Justice League, and it
Speaker 7: is too bad that in season seven, like that kind
Speaker 7: of just didn't turn into anything for much of it,
Speaker 7: because the end of this episode is like, oh yeah,
Speaker 7: you know Clark's gonna join them soon and then we
Speaker 7: had to wait like a whole other season for anything
Speaker 7: with that. But it's cool, you know, as an episode
Speaker 7: just self contained, it works really well. You know, when
Speaker 7: we got to see the teamwork of all of them
Speaker 7: as they break into three three point one, to see
Speaker 7: to remind the audience what each of their abilities is
Speaker 7: and how they're each an asset to the team, was
Speaker 7: really cool and it was done very like effortlessly, it seemed,
Speaker 7: which as a writer myself, I don't know, it's kind
Speaker 7: of difficult to showcase. Okay, here's what this character does
Speaker 7: really well, here's what this character does. This is how
Speaker 7: it helps the plot, This is how it helps their mission,
Speaker 7: and just showing it like boom, boom boom like that.
Speaker 7: It's actually kind of difficult to do, and I love
Speaker 7: that the episode just did that so effortlessly, like, Okay,
Speaker 7: here's why Aquaman works in this universe. Here's what he does. Boom,
Speaker 7: Here's what Cyborg does. He you know, is able to
Speaker 7: shut down the electricity and this and that, you know,
Speaker 7: it's great. I love that, you know, going back to
Speaker 7: the Luthers for a second, I also love Lionel's role
Speaker 7: in the episode. Big surprise coming from me, I know,
Speaker 7: but I really love how Lionel is working with Lex.
Speaker 7: At the beginning of the episode, there's this this really awesome,
Speaker 7: like this great little, like subtle character moment. Lionel is
Speaker 7: chastising Lex for being careless about thirty three point one
Speaker 7: if it ever came out that people with abilities were
Speaker 7: being tested at Luther Court, and then Lex completely dismisses
Speaker 7: him and shows him that photo of what you know,
Speaker 7: Lionel thinks as Clark, but it's the flash and Lex
Speaker 7: has that great faster than a sweeding bullet line and
Speaker 7: he's so cavalier and just like he's gonna make a
Speaker 7: great test subject for thirty three point one, don't you think.
Speaker 7: Come on, let's go protect our asset. And he walks out,
Speaker 7: and it's such a great moment because it's like, to me,
Speaker 7: it just again shows the audience how far the tables
Speaker 7: have turned with these characters. Lex is completely in control,
Speaker 7: no lot the master, and he's surpassing the Master now
Speaker 7: in a way, and it's like Lionel is the one
Speaker 7: who's nervous, not sure if they're gonna get away with
Speaker 7: this all of that stuff. I love that. I also
Speaker 7: love how Lionel is in this difficult sort of position
Speaker 7: where he's protecting Luther Corp. You know, his company, like
Speaker 7: that he still doesn't want I think he doesn't want
Speaker 7: public shame or disgrace about what thirty three point one
Speaker 7: is all about to get out there. It's like he's
Speaker 7: protecting his company. He's kind of protecting Lex in a way,
Speaker 7: but he's also protecting Clark, so he's kind of doing
Speaker 7: this double agent thing. And I love how that comes
Speaker 7: back later in Full Circle. You know, there's that moment
Speaker 7: when Clark barges in, he yells at Lionel he like usual,
Speaker 7: and then Lionel has that moment where he tells Clark like,
Speaker 7: we don't need to play games, Clark, or you know,
Speaker 7: if you're gonna keep playing games like this, And it
Speaker 7: seems like it would be a normal like Lionel threat,
Speaker 7: but then instead he's very fatherly and just like you
Speaker 7: should be more careful, and he's giving Clark that warning
Speaker 7: don't mess with Lex kind of thing. And then at
Speaker 7: the very end, the very end scene between Lionel and
Speaker 7: Lex is one that me and my mom quote endlessly
Speaker 7: because We think it's one of the funniest scenes when
Speaker 7: Lionel pulls out that lie out of nowhere, when Lex
Speaker 7: is questioning him about Clark, and Lionel just out of
Speaker 7: nowhere says, Clark was with Nea Martha last night. We
Speaker 7: had new potatoes and teeny tiny little baby carrots. Pot
Speaker 7: roast was delicious. Clark, he had three helpings, and Lex
Speaker 7: just has that face like, WTF is he telling the
Speaker 7: truth or is this another BS lie from Lionel. You know,
Speaker 7: It's just such a great moment. It's hilarious. So yeah,
Speaker 7: I love all the character interactions of this episode. There's
Speaker 7: a lot of big stuff happening. There's a lot of
Speaker 7: set pieces and action and comic book stuff, but it's
Speaker 7: counter balanced really well with the characters that we love
Speaker 7: in the show and the character moment. It's like that.
Speaker 7: So I think that's why this is such a great episode.
Speaker 7: It balances the action with the characters nicely. It develops
Speaker 7: Clark further in his journey and develops Lex further in
Speaker 7: his journey. It just reminds us really like what the
Speaker 7: show is about now in the more adult direction, the
Speaker 7: more comic book direction too, that it's starting to take.
Speaker 7: So I think Justice worked really well. Got to give
Speaker 7: it up to everyone involved with the episode, the direction
Speaker 7: of it, the writing, the acting. So thank you so
Speaker 7: much for letting me be part of this episode podcast.
Speaker 7: It's a wonderful episode, and thank you guys for listening.
Speaker 1: Small vill Season six on DVD Tuesday. The forces of
Speaker 1: evil are gathering. I will let you destroy her and
Speaker 1: the fight.
Speaker 6: For Justice begins with bonus features that take you deep
Speaker 6: into the legend.
Speaker 8: A Small Villa own season six on DVD and high
Speaker 8: Depth Tuesday.
Speaker 2: All right, I hope you all enjoyed our discussion on justice.
Speaker 2: And we never see these guys again in this configuration,
Speaker 2: even in this configuration plus others past this episode, which
Speaker 2: makes it so unique and iconic, and yes we do
Speaker 2: get obviously, the Green Arrow goes on to be a
Speaker 2: main character for the last three seasons of the show.
Speaker 2: We see Cyborg on a screen in season nine. We
Speaker 2: do see a little bit more of Acca Man in
Speaker 2: a couple more episodes, and Impulse is unfortunately just in
Speaker 2: doomsday after this, and then his picture appears a lot.
Speaker 2: All these guys pictures appear a lot on screens and
Speaker 2: in files. But to have this team go on a
Speaker 2: superhero adventure altogether, something that we never see again on Smallville,
Speaker 2: so Justice stands alone. But we've been tracking the bangers.
Speaker 2: The needle drops right. The pop music of Smavel just
Speaker 2: as important as anything else on this show, at least
Speaker 2: to me watching it at the time. And I know
Speaker 2: to any of you the music was there one in
Speaker 2: this episode, And had you asked me back in two
Speaker 2: thousand and seven when this episode came out, I would
Speaker 2: have said, I don't know. But revisiting it for the
Speaker 2: podcast proper and rewatching it over the years. High and
Speaker 2: Low by Greg Laswell, the song that plays during Oliver
Speaker 2: and Lois's breakup scene. It's kind of funny that we
Speaker 2: had these independent voice messages from three of our panel
Speaker 2: numbers and to hear them talk about certain scenes, and
Speaker 2: some of them say one thing about a scene, and
Speaker 2: some of them say the total opposite about a scene.
Speaker 2: But I think about Lois and Oliver's breakup scene, Victoria
Speaker 2: was a little amused by it and Matt was very
Speaker 2: emotionally moved by it, but I think they both came
Speaker 2: to the same conclusion that you know at CW. But
Speaker 2: it really works for the two of them, But this
Speaker 2: song plays in the background of that scene, and it's
Speaker 2: one that you know, I've added to my playlist and
Speaker 2: listened to now since I've recovered the episode, and it's solid.
Speaker 2: You know, I get it's not one that I put
Speaker 2: on a burn CD back in the day. That's kind
Speaker 2: of my litmus test for if it was one of
Speaker 2: those back in the day. But it's the only song
Speaker 2: that plays in this episode. But it's a very good
Speaker 2: pop song, very melancholy, captures the feel of what that
Speaker 2: scene was between Oliver and Loewis breaking up, and to me,
Speaker 2: that counts as a banger for our list keeping track.
Speaker 2: So again, I hope y'all enjoyed our conversation. Stay tuned
Speaker 2: next week to find out which episode is the number
Speaker 2: one episode of Smallville as voted by you the listeners.
Speaker 2: Our pedal discussion format will return for that conversation, but
Speaker 2: until then, Always hold on to Smallville, Always to Smallville
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