WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Dark Cast Network. Welcome to the dark Side of podcasting.

2
00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:12.439
<v Speaker 2>On July sixth, nineteen eighty three, eighteen year old Tammy

3
00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Lynn Leppert left her home in Rockledge, Florida, with a

4
00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:18.120
<v Speaker 2>friend for what was supposed to be a fun day

5
00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:21.440
<v Speaker 2>at the beach. Tammy was a budding actress who had

6
00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:25.199
<v Speaker 2>landed small roles in movies like Scarface and spring Break,

7
00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:27.679
<v Speaker 2>but in the weeks leading up to that summer day,

8
00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:31.239
<v Speaker 2>she had been acting strangely. She told her mother that

9
00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:35.119
<v Speaker 2>she'd seen something awful and even feared that someone was

10
00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:38.439
<v Speaker 2>trying to kill her. That afternoon, she got into an

11
00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:42.719
<v Speaker 2>argument with her friend and he dropped Tammy off alone

12
00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:47.000
<v Speaker 2>near Coco Beach's landmark Glass Bank building. She made a

13
00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:49.640
<v Speaker 2>few urgent phone calls from a nearby payphone, and then

14
00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:54.039
<v Speaker 2>vanished without a trace. Decades have passed without any sign

15
00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:58.960
<v Speaker 2>of the teenager. What happened to Tammy Lynn Leppert? When

16
00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:00.759
<v Speaker 2>a person goes missing, the it's a special kind of

17
00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:02.799
<v Speaker 2>pain and then not knowing. I want to tell the

18
00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:05.920
<v Speaker 2>stories of those who never came home. Today, I want

19
00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:09.200
<v Speaker 2>to tell you the story of Tamil and Leopard. I'm

20
00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:12.760
<v Speaker 2>ConA Gallagher and flick and this is and then they

21
00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:32.280
<v Speaker 2>were gone.

22
00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:35.280
<v Speaker 3>Welcome back, everyone, Welcome back.

23
00:01:35.159 --> 00:01:37.640
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for joining us once again. I'm ConA and

24
00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:41.000
<v Speaker 2>I and we're the husband and wife team behind this podcast.

25
00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:43.560
<v Speaker 2>Each week, I tell you the story of an unsolved

26
00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:46.959
<v Speaker 2>missing person's case. Ethan doesn't know anything about the case

27
00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:49.560
<v Speaker 2>going into the episode and is here to provide his

28
00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.200
<v Speaker 2>reactions and questions in real time, hopefully asking some of

29
00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:56.319
<v Speaker 2>the same ones you have at home. This story is

30
00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:58.760
<v Speaker 2>one that's been kind of on my radar for a while.

31
00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Me was young, talented, and according to some on the

32
00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:07.640
<v Speaker 2>cusp of stardom, and then she disappeared. It's one of

33
00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:13.199
<v Speaker 2>those stories though, that seems to have endless possibilities. So

34
00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:16.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious to get your take on it because I

35
00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:18.199
<v Speaker 2>think I have a theory, but like I could be

36
00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:22.319
<v Speaker 2>easily persuaded, you know, Okay, I'm not. I don't feel

37
00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:23.520
<v Speaker 2>very confident in it.

38
00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:26.879
<v Speaker 3>All right, Well, you've piqued my curiosity for sure.

39
00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

40
00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:30.840
<v Speaker 3>Also shout out to one of our fans who has

41
00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:34.319
<v Speaker 3>the same last name. Probably not related though, I know.

42
00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:37.159
<v Speaker 2>But it's funny because I talked in this episode about

43
00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:41.000
<v Speaker 2>how this was an unsolved Mysteries episode and it was

44
00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:46.360
<v Speaker 2>actually the season five premiere. Ooh, Robert Stack called her

45
00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:51.080
<v Speaker 2>tamy Lynn leepert ah and I was like, that can't

46
00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:54.000
<v Speaker 2>be right because it's definitely spelled Leopart, and then everything

47
00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:56.120
<v Speaker 2>else I saw pronounced it Leopert.

48
00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:56.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

49
00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:59.000
<v Speaker 2>So I'm just gonna chalk that up to just Robert

50
00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:00.199
<v Speaker 2>Stack doing his own thing.

51
00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

52
00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:04.039
<v Speaker 3>I mean he probably didn't even read the script at

53
00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:06.360
<v Speaker 3>that point. I mean you said season five, he was

54
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:08.960
<v Speaker 3>probably just reading off a teleprompter at that.

55
00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Point, yeah, and just was going for it.

56
00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:11.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

57
00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:13.319
<v Speaker 3>And who's going to correct Robert Stack.

58
00:03:13.479 --> 00:03:16.319
<v Speaker 2>Nobody? And that's what I love. So, you know, if

59
00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:18.599
<v Speaker 2>he says it's Liebert, but I am going to go

60
00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:21.879
<v Speaker 2>with Leopert for this episode. Before we get started, we

61
00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:24.159
<v Speaker 2>want to take a moment to think our amazing Patreon

62
00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:29.840
<v Speaker 2>supporters Danny B, Alicia A, Stephen L. Aaron Sarah S,

63
00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:34.439
<v Speaker 2>Amelia R. Kristin M and Riley s. We are so

64
00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:35.719
<v Speaker 2>grateful for your support.

65
00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:36.840
<v Speaker 3>Thank you all so much.

66
00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:39.599
<v Speaker 2>If you'd like to join them, you can head over

67
00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:42.520
<v Speaker 2>to our Patreon and sign up at any level and

68
00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:47.400
<v Speaker 2>you'll get access to ad free episodes and a free

69
00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:49.960
<v Speaker 2>copy of the e book that I wrote, can we

70
00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:53.280
<v Speaker 2>reemphasize ad free ad free episodes starting at just two

71
00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:54.039
<v Speaker 2>dollars a month?

72
00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:55.479
<v Speaker 3>So stop with the reviews.

73
00:03:57.599 --> 00:03:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Now, with that out of the way, let's get into

74
00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:04.240
<v Speaker 2>the disappearance of Tammy Lynn Leppert. Tammy Lynn Leppert was

75
00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:08.080
<v Speaker 2>born on February fifth, nineteen sixty five, in Rockwidge, Florida.

76
00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:11.000
<v Speaker 2>She was the youngest of five children and grew up

77
00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:14.319
<v Speaker 2>with her mother, Linda Curtis, who was a theatrical and

78
00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:19.279
<v Speaker 2>modeling agent. From a very early age, Tammy seemed destined

79
00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:22.800
<v Speaker 2>for the spotlight. She entered her first beauty contest at

80
00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:26.199
<v Speaker 2>the age of four and went on to compete in

81
00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:29.879
<v Speaker 2>over four hundred pageants.

82
00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:34.519
<v Speaker 3>Well, I mean, certainly easy to get into that many

83
00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:36.639
<v Speaker 3>when your mom is the talent agent.

84
00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:38.959
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, but I think she became the talent agent

85
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:42.199
<v Speaker 2>to represent her daughter. Oh okay, yeah, Like I don't

86
00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:46.560
<v Speaker 2>think she was established before that. But what's crazier is

87
00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:50.800
<v Speaker 2>that she won about two hundred and eighty crowns.

88
00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:51.759
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

89
00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:54.360
<v Speaker 2>So it's like not only a wild success rate, but

90
00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.560
<v Speaker 2>just I did not know there were that many pageants

91
00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:01.360
<v Speaker 2>in general. Isn't that crazy that by the time. She

92
00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:04.519
<v Speaker 2>was a teenager. So she started at four and she

93
00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:06.800
<v Speaker 2>did them. I don't know when she stopped. Well, let's

94
00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:09.319
<v Speaker 2>just say like, I mean, she disappeared when she was eighteen.

95
00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:13.120
<v Speaker 2>So at most fourteen years you can do four hundred pageants.

96
00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:17.920
<v Speaker 3>I guess I don't know anything about the child pageant world.

97
00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:22.639
<v Speaker 2>I just think that's absolutely fascinating. So, yeah, she was

98
00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:25.600
<v Speaker 2>a big deal in the pageant world, and she was

99
00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:29.120
<v Speaker 2>such a star early on that a local newspaper once

100
00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:34.240
<v Speaker 2>dubbed her Bervard's answer to Shirley Temple, and Bervard is

101
00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:38.600
<v Speaker 2>Bervard County where she lived. But yeah, she was definitely

102
00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:42.800
<v Speaker 2>a local celebrity. Linda Curtis devoted herself to managing Tammy's

103
00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.920
<v Speaker 2>blossoming career. She wasn't just a pageant queen. Tammy also

104
00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:50.279
<v Speaker 2>did some modeling and even grace the cover of CoverGirl

105
00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:54.360
<v Speaker 2>magazine in October nineteen seventy eight, when she was thirteen.

106
00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:58.360
<v Speaker 2>By her mid teens, she began landing small roles in movies.

107
00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:02.120
<v Speaker 2>She was a party girl in the teen film Little Darlings,

108
00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:06.560
<v Speaker 2>into bikini contestant in the comedy spring Break. Now, these,

109
00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:09.240
<v Speaker 2>of course weren't you know, high art or anything like that.

110
00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:14.160
<v Speaker 2>But even though she had like small parts her body,

111
00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:18.079
<v Speaker 2>like her hips specifically ended up being the movie poster

112
00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:19.160
<v Speaker 2>for spring Break.

113
00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:20.319
<v Speaker 3>Oh no, kidden.

114
00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so that's a huge deal.

115
00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:23.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's really cool.

116
00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:23.879
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

117
00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.519
<v Speaker 2>But her most notable role, and why people listening may

118
00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:29.360
<v Speaker 2>have heard of her because this is kind of always

119
00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:34.199
<v Speaker 2>brought up, was a brief appearance in Scarface, And.

120
00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:36.879
<v Speaker 3>She've seen Scarface many times, so I'm curious.

121
00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:39.720
<v Speaker 2>It's a blink and you'll miss her kind of role, Like,

122
00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:43.680
<v Speaker 2>she doesn't have any lines. Basically, it's the chainsaw scene

123
00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:48.800
<v Speaker 2>and she is a blonde in a blue bikini who

124
00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:52.319
<v Speaker 2>leans into the car and acts as a distraction during it.

125
00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:53.560
<v Speaker 3>Interesting.

126
00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:57.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it was obviously a bit role, but

127
00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:00.480
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't a major film, so well, you know, it

128
00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:05.480
<v Speaker 2>was a step up. It opened up new doors, new possibilities, everything. Yeah,

129
00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:09.240
<v Speaker 2>Tammy had big dreams of moving to Hollywood and becoming

130
00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:11.560
<v Speaker 2>a star, and by nineteen eighty three it looked like

131
00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.279
<v Speaker 2>she was on her way. So that summer, Tammy was eighteen,

132
00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:17.720
<v Speaker 2>and by then she was the only child who was

133
00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:21.160
<v Speaker 2>still living with Linda. Linda sometimes took in other young

134
00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:24.800
<v Speaker 2>people who were involved in show business. One such person

135
00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:29.920
<v Speaker 2>was a guy named Wing Flanagan. What, Yeah, which is

136
00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:30.759
<v Speaker 2>just an amazing name.

137
00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:32.279
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's got to be a stage name, right,

138
00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:34.639
<v Speaker 3>I have no idea that's Wing flann Yeah.

139
00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:36.920
<v Speaker 2>And he was also an unsolved mysteries he was interviewed

140
00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.759
<v Speaker 2>and he's a character and yeah, Wing Flanagan. So Wing

141
00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:44.319
<v Speaker 2>was eleven when he started living with them, so he

142
00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:48.720
<v Speaker 2>was more like a younger brother figure to Tammy, and

143
00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:52.879
<v Speaker 2>the two definitely had like a sibling kind of relationship, gotcha. So,

144
00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:57.319
<v Speaker 2>by all accounts, Tammy was a happy, outgoing girl. Linda

145
00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:59.839
<v Speaker 2>described her daughter as someone who quote woke up with

146
00:07:59.879 --> 00:08:02.839
<v Speaker 2>a smile and went to bed with a smile end quote.

147
00:08:03.560 --> 00:08:07.759
<v Speaker 2>But in the summer of nineteen eighty two, Tammy started

148
00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:12.680
<v Speaker 2>to change, and it had everyone around her worried. That year,

149
00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:16.279
<v Speaker 2>after filming wrapped on spring break, Tammy attended a weekend

150
00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:19.680
<v Speaker 2>party by herself out of town. Now no one knows

151
00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:23.279
<v Speaker 2>exactly what happened at this party, but according to Wing,

152
00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:28.639
<v Speaker 2>Tammy quote came back a different person end quote. The

153
00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:34.000
<v Speaker 2>bubbly and extroverted teen returned home sullen, withdrawn and deeply shaken.

154
00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:37.919
<v Speaker 2>Wing would ask her something was wrong, and Tammy would

155
00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:42.320
<v Speaker 2>be evasive, she'd changed the subject or insists that nothing

156
00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:44.399
<v Speaker 2>was bothering her and then try to laugh it off,

157
00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:50.840
<v Speaker 2>but something had clearly rattled her. Over time, Tammy also

158
00:08:51.159 --> 00:08:55.879
<v Speaker 2>began to become increasingly paranoid. At one point, she said

159
00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:58.679
<v Speaker 2>to her mom, quote, Mom, what would you say if

160
00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.720
<v Speaker 2>I told you someone was trying to kill me? End quote?

161
00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:05.279
<v Speaker 2>Linda of course asked Tammy for more information.

162
00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:08.600
<v Speaker 3>Is someone trying to kill you? Yeah? Right?

163
00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:14.240
<v Speaker 2>But Tammy refused to say anything specific. But on another occasion,

164
00:09:14.600 --> 00:09:17.120
<v Speaker 2>she told her mom that she had seen something really

165
00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:20.799
<v Speaker 2>awful that she wasn't supposed to have seen. In the

166
00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Unsolved Mysteries episode that I mentioned earlier, Wing told a

167
00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:27.279
<v Speaker 2>story of how the phone rang one day and Tammy

168
00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:29.759
<v Speaker 2>told him to answer it and tell whoever was calling

169
00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:34.399
<v Speaker 2>that she wasn't there. So Wing did it, and you know,

170
00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:36.679
<v Speaker 2>he thought it was weird, like she was just being

171
00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:40.360
<v Speaker 2>super intense about it. I guess like the impression that

172
00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:43.440
<v Speaker 2>I got was that it wasn't like, oh, this guy's

173
00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:45.440
<v Speaker 2>calling me, who I'm not interested? Just tell him I'm

174
00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:48.679
<v Speaker 2>not home. Like it seemed like it was more than that,

175
00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:49.279
<v Speaker 2>you know.

176
00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:50.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

177
00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:54.080
<v Speaker 2>In another incident, Tammy pulled Wing over to a window

178
00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:56.840
<v Speaker 2>and pointed out a new van that was parked across

179
00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:02.279
<v Speaker 2>the street. The van had like mirrored reflective windows, and

180
00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:06.679
<v Speaker 2>she whispered to Wing, look, they can see us, but

181
00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:11.159
<v Speaker 2>we can't see them. She was convinced that someone was

182
00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:11.919
<v Speaker 2>spying on her.

183
00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:13.480
<v Speaker 3>Creepy.

184
00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:17.519
<v Speaker 2>As weeks went by, Tammy's fear and anxiety seemed to grow,

185
00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:21.480
<v Speaker 2>but you know, she still pushed ahead with her acting ambitions.

186
00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:25.600
<v Speaker 2>In March nineteen eighty three, she got the opportunity to

187
00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:28.559
<v Speaker 2>film the small part in Scarface, which was shooting down

188
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:32.159
<v Speaker 2>in Miami. She went there and stayed with a family friend,

189
00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:36.559
<v Speaker 2>Walter Leebowitz. During production. For the first few days, everything

190
00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:39.279
<v Speaker 2>was fine, but then there was a scene with an

191
00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:45.039
<v Speaker 2>execution that used fake blood and it triggered Tammy in

192
00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:51.480
<v Speaker 2>a major way. She suddenly broke down on set, crying hysterically,

193
00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:54.120
<v Speaker 2>to the point that the crew had to take her

194
00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:57.039
<v Speaker 2>and put her in a trailer because she couldn't calm down.

195
00:10:57.279 --> 00:10:57.639
<v Speaker 3>Wow.

196
00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and she had bit part, like, you know, she

197
00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:03.840
<v Speaker 2>did not have her own trailer, like they put her

198
00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.480
<v Speaker 2>in somebody's trailer because she was like hysterical.

199
00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:10.759
<v Speaker 3>I feel like I need the like IMDb scarface and

200
00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:12.879
<v Speaker 3>see if that like pops up in the trivia.

201
00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I think it does. Yeah, it pops up a lot.

202
00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:20.759
<v Speaker 2>Walter Leibowitz rushed to check on her and found Tammy

203
00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.240
<v Speaker 2>in what he described as quote a tremendous state of

204
00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.960
<v Speaker 2>fear and anxiety end quote. She was shaking and sobbing.

205
00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:32.000
<v Speaker 2>In the midst of this panic, Tammy said something about

206
00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:36.080
<v Speaker 2>money laundering and kept repeating that they were going to

207
00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:39.679
<v Speaker 2>kill her and she didn't know where to hide. Walter

208
00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:42.120
<v Speaker 2>had no idea what could have caused her to be

209
00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:46.639
<v Speaker 2>so afraid, so from his perspective, her fear was very

210
00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:51.919
<v Speaker 2>real and extremely intense, but he didn't know if what

211
00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:55.759
<v Speaker 2>she was afraid of was real or if she was

212
00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:57.720
<v Speaker 2>like having some sort of mental breakdown.

213
00:11:57.960 --> 00:11:59.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

214
00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:01.799
<v Speaker 2>He was so concerned learned that he called Linda and

215
00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:05.080
<v Speaker 2>urged her to get Tammy professional help. He told her

216
00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:07.720
<v Speaker 2>that she should take Tammy to see a doctor and

217
00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:10.320
<v Speaker 2>also go to the police to figure out if this

218
00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:13.720
<v Speaker 2>was like all psychological or if Tammy actually had something

219
00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:17.159
<v Speaker 2>she needed to be worried about. After Tammy returned home

220
00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.200
<v Speaker 2>to Rockwodge, Linda arranged for her to speak with a

221
00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:24.679
<v Speaker 2>Brevard County Sheriff's deputy about her fears. However, when the

222
00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:27.919
<v Speaker 2>officer came to talk to Tammy, she downplayed the situation.

223
00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:31.159
<v Speaker 2>She never mentioned that she felt that her wife was

224
00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:35.279
<v Speaker 2>in danger, and the conversation didn't really reveal much of

225
00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:39.639
<v Speaker 2>anything that police could work with. Maybe Tammy was too

226
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:42.519
<v Speaker 2>scared to tell the police what she thought was happening,

227
00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.840
<v Speaker 2>or perhaps by that point she was unsure what was real.

228
00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:53.360
<v Speaker 2>In any case, her erratic behavior continued. Tammy became extremely

229
00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:57.000
<v Speaker 2>cautious about what she ate or drank. According to Linda,

230
00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:00.000
<v Speaker 2>she was convinced that somebody was trying to poison her.

231
00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:03.320
<v Speaker 2>She would refuse any food or drink from open containers

232
00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:07.399
<v Speaker 2>and even made other people like Wings, sample her food first.

233
00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:10.679
<v Speaker 3>Which like killing. Yeah.

234
00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.919
<v Speaker 2>Some days Tammy would seem almost normal, but other days

235
00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:18.200
<v Speaker 2>she was jumpy, edgy, and looked, as Wing put it,

236
00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:22.399
<v Speaker 2>like a wild, scared version of herself. Things continued in

237
00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:25.240
<v Speaker 2>that vein until they came to a head on July first,

238
00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:29.840
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty three. That day, Tammy was at home with Wing.

239
00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.159
<v Speaker 2>According to him, he was sitting on the couch reading

240
00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:36.279
<v Speaker 2>when Tammy suddenly accused him of staring at her. He

241
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:40.639
<v Speaker 2>hadn't been and he denied it, but Tammy gragitated. She

242
00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:44.159
<v Speaker 2>stepped outside, but almost immediately she tried to come back in,

243
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:48.440
<v Speaker 2>only to find that the front door had blown shut

244
00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:50.240
<v Speaker 2>and had locked behind her.

245
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:51.120
<v Speaker 3>Oh no.

246
00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.559
<v Speaker 2>Unable to get back inside, Tammy began to panic. She

247
00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:58.399
<v Speaker 2>pounded on the door, yelling to be let in, and

248
00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:01.519
<v Speaker 2>when that didn't work quickly enough, she grabbed a baseball

249
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.799
<v Speaker 2>bat and smashed a window to reach the lock and

250
00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:08.039
<v Speaker 2>let herself in. Wing opened the door and told her

251
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:11.799
<v Speaker 2>to stop, but Tammy was in a frenzy. She actually

252
00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.120
<v Speaker 2>lunged at Wing and attacked him with her fists, screaming

253
00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:19.440
<v Speaker 2>and accusing him of deliberately locking her out.

254
00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:21.279
<v Speaker 3>And how old was Wing at this point?

255
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure. I mean, she was eighteen, so he

256
00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:25.960
<v Speaker 2>was probably like fourteen.

257
00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:29.240
<v Speaker 3>I think, geez, yeah, it's gotta be terrifying for.

258
00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Him, I know. Wing later said that Tammy's eyes had

259
00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.279
<v Speaker 2>a crazy look and he wasn't even sure that she

260
00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:40.399
<v Speaker 2>recognized him. In that moment, Linda ran into intervene, desperately

261
00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:44.519
<v Speaker 2>repeating Tammy, it's mother, I love you, over and over

262
00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:47.919
<v Speaker 2>until Tammy seemed to snap back to reality. And calm

263
00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:52.039
<v Speaker 2>down now. As you can imagine, this outburst was very

264
00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:56.360
<v Speaker 2>alarming to Linda, so that same day she brought Tammy

265
00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.159
<v Speaker 2>to the Brevard County Mental Health Center, where they put

266
00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:02.759
<v Speaker 2>her on a seventy two two hour psychiatric holt. Doctors

267
00:15:02.840 --> 00:15:06.039
<v Speaker 2>ran a full battery of tests, and through that we

268
00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.080
<v Speaker 2>learned that drugs were not the cause of all of this.

269
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.600
<v Speaker 2>They found no evidence of drug or alcohol use, which

270
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:16.480
<v Speaker 2>backs up what friends have said about Tammy. They said

271
00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:19.039
<v Speaker 2>that she wasn't into drugs and that she didn't even drink.

272
00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:23.720
<v Speaker 2>But somewhat frustratingly, doctors weren't able to diagnose Tammy with

273
00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:27.440
<v Speaker 2>any clear mental illness or condition in those three days.

274
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.799
<v Speaker 2>So at the end of seventy two hours, with no

275
00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:34.720
<v Speaker 2>firm answers about what was wrong, Tammy was released back

276
00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:39.000
<v Speaker 2>home on July fourth, nineteen eighty three. Tammy's family still

277
00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:41.879
<v Speaker 2>didn't know what had caused her drastic change in behavior.

278
00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:46.120
<v Speaker 2>Was it a psychological break, possibly the onset of a

279
00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:51.240
<v Speaker 2>mental illness like schizophrenia, or was Tammy truly terrified for

280
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:54.879
<v Speaker 2>legitimate reasons, having seen or heard something that put her

281
00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:56.960
<v Speaker 2>life in danger. We still don't know.

282
00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:02.759
<v Speaker 3>It seems as though it was the third option. You know,

283
00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:06.039
<v Speaker 3>she goes to that party and then comes back changed

284
00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.840
<v Speaker 3>and then starts having all of these episodes and right,

285
00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:11.120
<v Speaker 3>so clearly she saw something.

286
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:12.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, something happened.

287
00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:17.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, And I'd be curious you said that they

288
00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:21.360
<v Speaker 3>didn't find any evidence of drug use, but that party happened,

289
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.919
<v Speaker 3>however long ago. Most drugs only stay in your system

290
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:29.320
<v Speaker 3>for seventy two hours, most hard drugs, I should say, right, So, like,

291
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.679
<v Speaker 3>had she taken any drugs at that party, it all

292
00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:34.480
<v Speaker 3>would have been out of her system by them, oh

293
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:35.000
<v Speaker 3>for sure.

294
00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:39.080
<v Speaker 2>But what that proved was that there wasn't ongoing drug use,

295
00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:42.480
<v Speaker 2>or there wasn't drug use that directly, you know, was

296
00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:45.639
<v Speaker 2>contributing to these outbursts, right or anything like that.

297
00:16:45.960 --> 00:16:46.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you're right.

298
00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:48.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, she very much could have taken drugs at

299
00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:50.240
<v Speaker 2>the party. She could have been slip drugs at the party.

300
00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:52.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's more of what I was thinking, exactly. Like,

301
00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.279
<v Speaker 2>we have no idea. I just think that, you know,

302
00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:58.000
<v Speaker 2>some people may want to write off this behavior as

303
00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:01.720
<v Speaker 2>like drug induced paranoia or something like that, and it

304
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:04.799
<v Speaker 2>was it definitely does not seem like that is the

305
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:07.240
<v Speaker 2>case at all. So what we do know is that

306
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.039
<v Speaker 2>even after her short hospital stay, Tammy remained on edge.

307
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.160
<v Speaker 2>Linda later said that upon coming home, Tammy asked Linda

308
00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.799
<v Speaker 2>to promise that if anything happens to me, get even

309
00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:24.400
<v Speaker 2>with that person for me. Linda, of course tried to

310
00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:26.559
<v Speaker 2>ask four questions like who is that person? What do

311
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.480
<v Speaker 2>you think is going to happen, But Tammy still wouldn't say.

312
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.799
<v Speaker 2>She just told her he is still going to try

313
00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:36.599
<v Speaker 2>and kill me. Now, at one point, Timmy did mention

314
00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:38.559
<v Speaker 2>to her mom that a friend of hers had bragged

315
00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:41.240
<v Speaker 2>about a big drug and money laundering scheme going on

316
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:45.920
<v Speaker 2>in the area, involving some prominent local figures. So one

317
00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:49.599
<v Speaker 2>interpretation is that Tammy thought that this friend or the

318
00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.279
<v Speaker 2>people involved in that criminal scheme might come after her

319
00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:56.920
<v Speaker 2>since she knew too much. And again like this is

320
00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.799
<v Speaker 2>not confirmed, of course, but it's something to keep in mind.

321
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:01.119
<v Speaker 3>We go on.

322
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:04.359
<v Speaker 2>On July fifth, nineteen eighty three, the day after Tammy

323
00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:07.160
<v Speaker 2>got out of the hospital, she spent time with her

324
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.200
<v Speaker 2>close friend Rick Adams. Now, Rick was perhaps one of

325
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:13.880
<v Speaker 2>the last people aside from family, to really talk with

326
00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:17.599
<v Speaker 2>Tammy before she disappeared. Now, Rick and Tammy had been

327
00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:21.039
<v Speaker 2>friends for years and he too was aware that something

328
00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:25.119
<v Speaker 2>had been troubling her. In fact, earlier on, Tammy had

329
00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:27.599
<v Speaker 2>also told Rick that she believed somebody was going to

330
00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:30.359
<v Speaker 2>kill her, so, like he was well aware of everything

331
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.039
<v Speaker 2>that had been going on with her. So that day,

332
00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:35.200
<v Speaker 2>on the fifth, when they were hanging out, Tammy broke

333
00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:38.200
<v Speaker 2>down to Rick and repeated that she had seen something

334
00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:41.960
<v Speaker 2>that she shouldn't have seen. Now, she still wouldn't tell

335
00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Rick exactly what it was, but she was clearly very upset.

336
00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Tammy asked Rick to take her to church, so they

337
00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.200
<v Speaker 2>went to a local evangelical temple in Rockledge to pray.

338
00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:57.279
<v Speaker 2>While they were there, Tammy burst into tears and cried

339
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:01.720
<v Speaker 2>inconsolably for several minutes. The way he described it, he

340
00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:04.359
<v Speaker 2>said she cried harder than he's ever seen anyone cry.

341
00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.759
<v Speaker 2>Rick did his best to comfort her, and when he

342
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:10.839
<v Speaker 2>drove Tammy home afterward, they actually made plans to go

343
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:14.319
<v Speaker 2>back to church together the next day. As Tammy got

344
00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:16.240
<v Speaker 2>out of Rick's car, she told him that she loved

345
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.200
<v Speaker 2>him and then said that she might be going away

346
00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:21.799
<v Speaker 2>for a while. Now Rick didn't know what she meant

347
00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:25.319
<v Speaker 2>by that, but at the time he assumed that she

348
00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:29.279
<v Speaker 2>was talking about an upcoming trip to California for movie rules.

349
00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:33.000
<v Speaker 2>But obviously, looking back, he wonders if maybe she meant

350
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:38.519
<v Speaker 2>something completely different. The next morning, July sixth, nineteen eighty three,

351
00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.559
<v Speaker 2>Linda said that Tammy seemed calmer and more like her

352
00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:44.559
<v Speaker 2>old self. She also said that it was a very

353
00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:47.799
<v Speaker 2>normal morning. Linda began to think that maybe the worst

354
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:52.079
<v Speaker 2>was behind them. In fact, she actually thought that Tammy

355
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:56.960
<v Speaker 2>might have been purposely acting extraordinarily normal that day, as

356
00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.200
<v Speaker 2>if she was trying to reassure her mom that she

357
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:03.839
<v Speaker 2>was okay, now okay. Around eleven am, Tammy decided to

358
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.359
<v Speaker 2>go out with another friend of hers, twenty year old

359
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Keith Roberts. Tammy told her mom that she and Keith

360
00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:12.759
<v Speaker 2>were going to spend the day in Cocoa Beach, which

361
00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.519
<v Speaker 2>was a favorite hangout spot of hers. Cocoa Beach is

362
00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:18.119
<v Speaker 2>only about a twenty minute drive from their home in Rockledge,

363
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:22.039
<v Speaker 2>and Tammy loved it there. She once said, quote, ever

364
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:24.400
<v Speaker 2>since I was a little girl, I've always dreamed of

365
00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.279
<v Speaker 2>having a house on Cocoa Beach and living happily ever

366
00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:31.039
<v Speaker 2>after end quote, Tammy got dressed to go out. She

367
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:33.640
<v Speaker 2>put on a light blue denim shirt with flower apple

368
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:37.200
<v Speaker 2>cats on the shoulders, a matching denim's skirt, and flipflops.

369
00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:40.119
<v Speaker 2>She grabbed her gray purse and headed for the door.

370
00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:45.799
<v Speaker 2>Linda did, however, notice one odd detail. Tammy left without

371
00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:50.200
<v Speaker 2>combing her hair, which is very unlike her. Tammy was

372
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:54.319
<v Speaker 2>usually meticulous about her appearance, so Linda found it strange

373
00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:58.279
<v Speaker 2>that she'd rush out with messy hair. In fact, Tammy's

374
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:00.319
<v Speaker 2>friend Rick said that it was one of the things

375
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:04.039
<v Speaker 2>about her that drove him crazy. Tammy took forever to

376
00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.440
<v Speaker 2>get ready and wouldn't go anywhere unless she looks perfect.

377
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:10.519
<v Speaker 2>As Tammy went out the front door, she called back

378
00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:13.240
<v Speaker 2>to her mom, quote by Mommy, I'll see you in

379
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:17.119
<v Speaker 2>a little bit end quote, and those were the last

380
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:20.839
<v Speaker 2>words that Linda ever heard her daughter say. She would

381
00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:23.920
<v Speaker 2>later say that she watched Tammy get into Keith's car

382
00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:28.359
<v Speaker 2>as she felt a sudden gut feeling of dread. For

383
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:30.759
<v Speaker 2>some reason, she felt that it might be the last

384
00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:35.519
<v Speaker 2>time she would ever see Tammy, and tragically that intuition

385
00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:49.000
<v Speaker 2>turned out to be true.

386
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:54.000
<v Speaker 3>So up to this point, I was thinking that maybe

387
00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:59.519
<v Speaker 3>Tammy was overacting the day before because she was planning

388
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:03.400
<v Speaker 3>on running away to escape whoever might be after her,

389
00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:04.559
<v Speaker 3>that kind of thing.

390
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.279
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm, you mean overacting like when she was.

391
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:10.519
<v Speaker 3>At the church, No, no, no, overacting with her mom.

392
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.799
<v Speaker 2>She was good, yeah, fine, yeah, okay, yeah yeah, And I.

393
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:19.039
<v Speaker 3>Was thinking that that, you know, after she said goodbye

394
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.519
<v Speaker 3>to her friend saying you won't see me for a while,

395
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:28.319
<v Speaker 3>that maybe she was planning on disappearing to avoid whoever

396
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:33.319
<v Speaker 3>was after her. Okay. The hair thing has thrown me

397
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:33.680
<v Speaker 3>off though.

398
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:35.440
<v Speaker 2>It's a weird detail and I don't know what to

399
00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:35.839
<v Speaker 2>make of it.

400
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:39.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, same, because she was dressed nicely.

401
00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:42.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like that's why I described her outfit, you know.

402
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:47.880
<v Speaker 3>Very eighties outfit. Oh yeah yeah right, denim skirt. Yeah,

403
00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:51.000
<v Speaker 3>but yeah, the hair being messy, Now it's thrown me

404
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:53.720
<v Speaker 3>for a liop and making me think another mental health

405
00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:58.079
<v Speaker 3>issue or potentially a psychotic break of some sort. But yeah,

406
00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:01.519
<v Speaker 3>like it doesn't seem and I'm sure you'll go into it. It

407
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:04.720
<v Speaker 3>doesn't seem like her behavior was the same as like

408
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:06.640
<v Speaker 3>her kind of manic episodes.

409
00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Right yeah, so yeah with the hair, I don't know,

410
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:16.599
<v Speaker 2>because yeah, like all morning apparently it was uneventful. She

411
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.200
<v Speaker 2>was acting completely fine. But yeah, so like why would

412
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:23.480
<v Speaker 2>she be acting completely fine, get dressed, look nice, you know,

413
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:29.200
<v Speaker 2>make plans, and then not brush her hair. Like that's

414
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:29.920
<v Speaker 2>so strange.

415
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't know. I'm gonna have to think on this.

416
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:36.200
<v Speaker 3>As the story progresses.

417
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:37.839
<v Speaker 2>Well, it gets weirder, you know, like there's more to

418
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:41.599
<v Speaker 2>it obviously. So what happened next, though, comes only from

419
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:44.960
<v Speaker 2>Keith Roberts's account, since he was the last known person

420
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:48.359
<v Speaker 2>to be with Tammy. According to Keith, he picked her

421
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.680
<v Speaker 2>up from her house and they headed toward Cocoa Beach

422
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:55.640
<v Speaker 2>in his car. Sometime around early afternoon. They started arguing

423
00:23:55.839 --> 00:23:59.160
<v Speaker 2>while they were driving. Keith later told police that Tammy

424
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.559
<v Speaker 2>had been acting real paranoid and talked about wanting to

425
00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:06.720
<v Speaker 2>leave home. He claimed that Tammy asked to borrow three

426
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.839
<v Speaker 2>hundred dollars and wanted him to drive her down to

427
00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:14.440
<v Speaker 2>Fort Watterdale to stay with some friends. Now Fort Waterdale

428
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.160
<v Speaker 2>is over one hundred and seventy miles south of Cocoa Beach,

429
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:20.960
<v Speaker 2>which is not just a short trip. Yeah, now it

430
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:24.759
<v Speaker 2>sounds and of course I can't verify this, but I

431
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:27.920
<v Speaker 2>do believe that. Keith said he gave her the money,

432
00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:31.240
<v Speaker 2>but said, listen, I can't drive you to Fort Waterdale

433
00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:32.119
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of the day.

434
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:35.119
<v Speaker 3>If we are to believe Keith, that does back up

435
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:38.279
<v Speaker 3>my thought that she was planning on disappearing for a

436
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:38.640
<v Speaker 3>little bit.

437
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:39.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah exactly.

438
00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:41.279
<v Speaker 3>Still doesn't explain the hair.

439
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.440
<v Speaker 2>No, but this whole thing about him refusing to drive

440
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:50.319
<v Speaker 2>her to Fort Laderdale apparently set Tammy off. According to Keith,

441
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:54.359
<v Speaker 2>she became irrationally upset and demanded that he stopped the

442
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:58.000
<v Speaker 2>car and let her out immediately. So Keith says that

443
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:01.920
<v Speaker 2>he complied, and sometimes around three pm that afternoon, he

444
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:05.000
<v Speaker 2>pulled over a few blocks away from the Glass Bank

445
00:25:05.079 --> 00:25:08.160
<v Speaker 2>in Cocoa Beach and let Tammy out of the car.

446
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:12.680
<v Speaker 2>The Glass Bank was a distinctive multi story building along

447
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:15.920
<v Speaker 2>State Road A one A. It was a local landmark,

448
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:18.519
<v Speaker 2>and right next to it was an Excellon gas station

449
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:22.079
<v Speaker 2>and like a strip mall. This spot was roughly five

450
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:24.559
<v Speaker 2>miles from Tammy's home. Just to give you an idea

451
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:28.640
<v Speaker 2>of where we were. Keith then drove away, leaving Tammy there,

452
00:25:29.000 --> 00:25:32.599
<v Speaker 2>and according to him, he never saw her again. Now

453
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:37.759
<v Speaker 2>this is fishy, obviously, Like I never trust it when

454
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:41.160
<v Speaker 2>somebody says, oh, yeah, I got into a fight with

455
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:46.920
<v Speaker 2>this person, but they were fine. They just happened to disappear, yeah,

456
00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:51.000
<v Speaker 2>right afterwards, and we're never seen again. Because he's certainly

457
00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:53.960
<v Speaker 2>not the first person in a story that we've covered

458
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:57.359
<v Speaker 2>to have a story that's similar to that, right, But

459
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:02.039
<v Speaker 2>in this case, we have some evidence that corroborates his story.

460
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:04.599
<v Speaker 3>I was gonna ask, Yeah, I mean, you're talking about

461
00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:10.039
<v Speaker 3>a gas station and a famous landmark. Yes, it's nineteen

462
00:26:10.039 --> 00:26:12.640
<v Speaker 3>eighty three. Yees, cameras did exist.

463
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:17.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I've heard rumors of CCTV, but I don't

464
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:19.319
<v Speaker 2>know if there actually is any in this case.

465
00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:21.079
<v Speaker 3>Oh okay, So what was the evidence though.

466
00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, the evidence is that almost immediately after Keith dropped

467
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:27.799
<v Speaker 2>her off, Tammy used a nearby pay phone, I think

468
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:31.000
<v Speaker 2>the one at the gas station, to make a series

469
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:34.920
<v Speaker 2>of phone calls. She made three calls in quick succession

470
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:38.519
<v Speaker 2>to her aunt, Ginger Coolsch, who owned a costume shop

471
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:43.200
<v Speaker 2>in Cocoa Beach. Unfortunately, Ginger was out of town, so

472
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:47.359
<v Speaker 2>she didn't pick up. Tammy left urgent messages for aunt

473
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:50.720
<v Speaker 2>Ginger asking her to call back. She said it was important.

474
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:54.839
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Well, I mean so that does kind of corroborate

475
00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:55.359
<v Speaker 3>his story.

476
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:59.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, At least like the timeline. You know, Tammy also

477
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:03.440
<v Speaker 2>placed called to her friend Ron Abeles, who owned a

478
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:08.240
<v Speaker 2>nearby video store on a one A. Ron unfortunately also

479
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.039
<v Speaker 2>wasn't available to answer when Tammy called. So it seems

480
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:15.279
<v Speaker 2>that within a short span, Tammy was desperately trying to

481
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.960
<v Speaker 2>reach someone she trusted who could possibly come get her

482
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:23.160
<v Speaker 2>or help her. And these are people who had businesses

483
00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:26.680
<v Speaker 2>close to where she was at the time, So it

484
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:29.480
<v Speaker 2>seems like that's why she chose those two particular people

485
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:30.039
<v Speaker 2>to call.

486
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, as opposed to her mom, right, And.

487
00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, I don't know how Linda's health was at

488
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:41.279
<v Speaker 2>the time. I know later on her health failed drastically

489
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:46.119
<v Speaker 2>and she had trouble walking and things like that, So

490
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how her health was at this point.

491
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:51.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if she was driving, if she was

492
00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:54.720
<v Speaker 2>even in a position where she could have come to

493
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.519
<v Speaker 2>get Tammy. So it could have been purely logistical that,

494
00:27:58.599 --> 00:28:01.680
<v Speaker 2>like she didn't even bother to call her mom because

495
00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:04.599
<v Speaker 2>maybe her mom wasn't even able to help, so she

496
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.880
<v Speaker 2>was just trying people who are nearby. And Ginger would

497
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.759
<v Speaker 2>later say, quote, Tammy was definitely afraid of somebody. End

498
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:15.640
<v Speaker 2>quote that was her impression upon hearing that Tammy had

499
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:19.160
<v Speaker 2>tried so hard to reach her. Now we don't know

500
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:22.200
<v Speaker 2>as something specific spook to Tammy in those moments after

501
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Keith drove off, or if her general fearfulness was at

502
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.519
<v Speaker 2>a peak, but it's clear that Tammy did not want

503
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:33.680
<v Speaker 2>to be alone and was scared of someone or something.

504
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Despite those urgent calls, Tammy unfortunately did not manage to

505
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:44.119
<v Speaker 2>connect with anyone, and after that, Tammy Lynn Leppert seemingly vanished.

506
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:47.799
<v Speaker 2>No One who knew her saw or heard from her again.

507
00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:52.839
<v Speaker 2>After roughly three pm on July sixth, nineteen eighty three,

508
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:55.880
<v Speaker 2>when night fell and Tammy still hadn't returned home or

509
00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:59.799
<v Speaker 2>contacted her family, Linda knew that something was very wrong.

510
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:02.759
<v Speaker 2>Tammy had promised to be back in a little bit,

511
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:05.559
<v Speaker 2>and she was typically good about checking in. In the

512
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:08.880
<v Speaker 2>early morning hours of July seventh, Linda contacted the Cocoa

513
00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:13.200
<v Speaker 2>Beach Police Department to report her daughter missing. Now I'm

514
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:17.359
<v Speaker 2>assuming that that July seventh date is correct. I mean,

515
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:20.079
<v Speaker 2>it does make sense. After all, like we know, Linda

516
00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:23.680
<v Speaker 2>was already concerned about Tammy, so if she didn't come home,

517
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:25.720
<v Speaker 2>it would make sense that she would report her missing

518
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:30.119
<v Speaker 2>the next morning, right, But I have seen the police report,

519
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.000
<v Speaker 2>which is two pages long and has almost no information

520
00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:35.599
<v Speaker 2>on it, and it stated July eleventh.

521
00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:39.359
<v Speaker 3>Oh that's a big difference right now.

522
00:29:39.400 --> 00:29:43.759
<v Speaker 2>I haven't found a definitive explanation for the discrepancy in

523
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.559
<v Speaker 2>my research, but based on everything we know about how

524
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:49.519
<v Speaker 2>cases like this are handled.

525
00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:53.519
<v Speaker 3>I guess he's an adult. Yeah, she can be out

526
00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:57.559
<v Speaker 3>on her own exactly, call back in forty eight hours,

527
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.839
<v Speaker 3>and yeah, if she hasn't come home, then we'll yeah.

528
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So it sounds like that's exactly what happened. My

529
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:06.400
<v Speaker 2>guess is that Linda did call police on July seventh,

530
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.799
<v Speaker 2>but they just didn't do an actual report until the eleventh.

531
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:11.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that makes sense.

532
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:13.160
<v Speaker 2>And this is borne out by the fact that we

533
00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:16.720
<v Speaker 2>do know Cocoa Beach police initially classified Tammy as a

534
00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:22.640
<v Speaker 2>possible runaway. Now, in their defense, there were a few

535
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:25.079
<v Speaker 2>reasons why they leaned toward that theory.

536
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:27.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that was my theory already.

537
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:31.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, exactly right, and in their case, a few of

538
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:35.039
<v Speaker 2>Tammy's close friends, when interviewed, mentioned that Tammy had been

539
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:39.400
<v Speaker 2>having conflicts at home. There were rumors that Tammy and

540
00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:45.519
<v Speaker 2>her mom, Linda, argued about Tammy's career and independence. In fact,

541
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:49.359
<v Speaker 2>one friend recalled Tammy saying, man, when I hit eighteen,

542
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm out of here now. If that's true, it could

543
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:55.160
<v Speaker 2>indicate that Tammy had at least talked about leaving home

544
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:59.960
<v Speaker 2>on our own terms. Another friend, Rona Bellis, the video

545
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.079
<v Speaker 2>store owner that Tammy had tried to call, told her

546
00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:06.640
<v Speaker 2>reporter that when he first heard Tammy was missing, he said, quote,

547
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:11.440
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't too surprised. I remember Linda as being very well.

548
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:16.319
<v Speaker 2>How should I put this aggressive about Tammy's acting career?

549
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:20.359
<v Speaker 2>I always wondered if there were problems there? End quote.

550
00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Now that said, Linda has insisted that Tammy would never

551
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:29.359
<v Speaker 2>have left without staying in touch. She always let Linda

552
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:31.359
<v Speaker 2>know where she was going and would call if she

553
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:35.799
<v Speaker 2>was late. And Ginger put it this way, quote the

554
00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:38.559
<v Speaker 2>only way Tammy wouldn't call Linda is if something bad

555
00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:42.599
<v Speaker 2>happened to her, or if she was under someone else's control.

556
00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:47.319
<v Speaker 2>End quote. Plus, as Linda pointed out on Unsolved Mysteries,

557
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:50.559
<v Speaker 2>Tammy already had plans to go to California for three.

558
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:54.640
<v Speaker 3>Months, right, So how unsupportive was her mom?

559
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:55.519
<v Speaker 1>Really? Well?

560
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:57.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and if she just wanted to get away from

561
00:31:57.319 --> 00:31:59.519
<v Speaker 2>her mom, like she was already going to be getting

562
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:02.960
<v Speaker 2>away from her start to California, literally across the country.

563
00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:07.559
<v Speaker 2>You cannot get further away really in America than Florida

564
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:10.960
<v Speaker 2>to California, you know, So, like it was fine, she

565
00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:13.000
<v Speaker 2>could have just gone. She didn't need to do this

566
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:15.000
<v Speaker 2>whole vanishing.

567
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:17.920
<v Speaker 3>Act unless she was running away from somebody else.

568
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.279
<v Speaker 2>Right, And then of course there's the fact that Timmy

569
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:25.200
<v Speaker 2>left everything behind, all of her clothes, makeup, and her

570
00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:29.559
<v Speaker 2>personal items. She even left twenty thousand dollars in her

571
00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:33.480
<v Speaker 2>bank account and her hairbrush and her hair brush. But

572
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:35.759
<v Speaker 2>twenty grand in nineteen eighty three.

573
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:36.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's a lot of money.

574
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.640
<v Speaker 2>That's a shitload of money. And if you're going to

575
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.000
<v Speaker 2>start a new life, it seems like you would want that.

576
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.119
<v Speaker 3>But she did have her purse, because you said that

577
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:45.400
<v Speaker 3>she walked out with her purse.

578
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:47.480
<v Speaker 2>She had her purse. But I mean her bank account

579
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.279
<v Speaker 2>was never used or whatever. And she asked Keith to

580
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:51.400
<v Speaker 2>borrow three hundred bucks.

581
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:56.599
<v Speaker 3>Maybe she was thinking that if she had accessed that money,

582
00:32:56.920 --> 00:32:58.160
<v Speaker 3>it would have been traceable.

583
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean sure, but it's still wild. They keep

584
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:05.640
<v Speaker 2>in mind, this girl's eighteen years old too, you know.

585
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:06.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

586
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.400
<v Speaker 2>So despite the families, please, police did not launch an

587
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:14.640
<v Speaker 2>intensive search. They did take a missing person's report and

588
00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:19.119
<v Speaker 2>spoke to Keith, Roberts and other friends. However, by all accounts,

589
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:23.400
<v Speaker 2>Keith was not interrogated. He was more questioned in a

590
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:27.720
<v Speaker 2>cursory way, despite being the last person with Tammy and

591
00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:30.960
<v Speaker 2>him admitting that they had had an argument right before

592
00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:31.880
<v Speaker 2>her disappearance.

593
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:34.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, he should have been suspect number one

594
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:35.160
<v Speaker 3>for sure.

595
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:39.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh and also her other friend Rick, the one who

596
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:42.160
<v Speaker 2>she's with the night before. He said that police never

597
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:45.400
<v Speaker 2>talked to him, despite the fact that they were together

598
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:47.079
<v Speaker 2>the night before she disappeared.

599
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:51.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this does not sound like they're taking this seriously.

600
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:54.039
<v Speaker 2>Not at all. Koco Beach police have said that Keith

601
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:58.759
<v Speaker 2>cooperated and that they found no evidence to implicate him. However,

602
00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:03.000
<v Speaker 2>Linda strongly disagreed. She said over the years that she

603
00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:06.440
<v Speaker 2>felt the police blew the investigation early on by not

604
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:11.960
<v Speaker 2>treating Keith as a serious suspect. According to Lieutenant Jim Scraggs,

605
00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:15.639
<v Speaker 2>the original detective assigned to Tammy's case, Keith spoke to

606
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:19.480
<v Speaker 2>them only by phone, Scraggs said that Keith actually broke

607
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.119
<v Speaker 2>two appointments to come down to the station for a

608
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:26.480
<v Speaker 2>face to face interview. So it appears that Keith avoided

609
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:29.400
<v Speaker 2>meeting with police in person, which is, you know.

610
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.360
<v Speaker 3>A little suspicious. That's not the best look.

611
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:37.079
<v Speaker 2>Scragg's never got the chance to interview Keith properly. After

612
00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:41.000
<v Speaker 2>a couple of phone conversations, Keith basically ghosted the investigators,

613
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:45.440
<v Speaker 2>but still the police publicly stated that Keith Roberts was

614
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:49.599
<v Speaker 2>not considered a suspect due to lack of evidence, so

615
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:52.400
<v Speaker 2>they essentially just took his story at face value.

616
00:34:53.079 --> 00:34:57.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean even if even with the phone calls

617
00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:01.840
<v Speaker 3>that she made, yes, that corroborates his timeline, right, But

618
00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:07.400
<v Speaker 3>I mean unless he presented some sort of alibi, you know,

619
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.639
<v Speaker 3>almost immediately after.

620
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Dropping, it doesn't mean that he didn't startle him back, right,

621
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:16.119
<v Speaker 2>He could have come back for sure. So yeah, I mean,

622
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:19.159
<v Speaker 2>it was so strange to me that they're just like, oh, okay,

623
00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:21.360
<v Speaker 2>well if you said you didn't do anything like all

624
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.760
<v Speaker 2>right now. For his part, Keith later spoke to the

625
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:28.159
<v Speaker 2>media to defend himself. He claimed that he had never

626
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:30.559
<v Speaker 2>been asked to take a polygraph and that he was

627
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:34.480
<v Speaker 2>never invited to the station for an interview, which does

628
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:38.960
<v Speaker 2>contradict the detective's account. Keith said that he did everything

629
00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:42.679
<v Speaker 2>the police asked and that he was fully cooperative. What

630
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:46.599
<v Speaker 2>did happen in the early investigation was something rather bizarre

631
00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:51.039
<v Speaker 2>mystery phone calls. Within the first couple of weeks after

632
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Tammy disappeared, Cocoa Beach Detective Harold Lewis received two separate

633
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.840
<v Speaker 2>phone calls from an anonymous woman, and the first call,

634
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:03.000
<v Speaker 2>this woman claimed that Tammy was alive and well and

635
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:05.800
<v Speaker 2>that she would make contact with her family when she

636
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:09.599
<v Speaker 2>was ready. The caller basically told police, don't worry, she's okay,

637
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:14.079
<v Speaker 2>she just needs some time. Then, not long after, a

638
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:18.719
<v Speaker 2>second call came from presumably the same woman, and in

639
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.119
<v Speaker 2>that one, she said that Tammy was doing what she

640
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:25.800
<v Speaker 2>always wanted, going to school to become a nurse. What

641
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:30.880
<v Speaker 2>right now? This was obviously odd on many levels. For one,

642
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Tammy had never expressed any interest in becoming a nurse.

643
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:37.920
<v Speaker 2>In fact, she was actually afraid of blood, according to

644
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:41.760
<v Speaker 2>her mother, so that career path would be extremely out

645
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:44.840
<v Speaker 2>of character, and this led Linda to believe that the

646
00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:46.400
<v Speaker 2>calls were bogus.

647
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:47.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Probably.

648
00:36:48.519 --> 00:36:51.880
<v Speaker 2>The detective Lewis interestingly kind of took them to heart.

649
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:55.159
<v Speaker 2>He was quoted as saying, quote, I have a gut

650
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:59.400
<v Speaker 2>feeling that Tammy just split end quote. In other words,

651
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:02.440
<v Speaker 2>his instinct was that Tammy left on her own, and

652
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:05.320
<v Speaker 2>these calls seemed to confirm that she was out there somewhere.

653
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Police were never able to trace those calls or identify

654
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:11.360
<v Speaker 2>the woman, and to this day we don't know if

655
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:14.159
<v Speaker 2>they were cool prank, a friend of Tammy's trying to

656
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:16.400
<v Speaker 2>mislead investigators.

657
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:18.159
<v Speaker 3>Or Tammy herself. Exactly.

658
00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:22.679
<v Speaker 2>From the family's perspective, every moment the police assumed Tammy

659
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:24.880
<v Speaker 2>was a runaway was a moment that was wasted in

660
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:28.400
<v Speaker 2>finding her. Over the years, Linda was very vocal that

661
00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:31.239
<v Speaker 2>the Cocoa Beach pat did not do enough early on.

662
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:34.360
<v Speaker 2>She even alleged that Tammy had told her that she

663
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:39.360
<v Speaker 2>was afraid of Keith Roberts. Linda felt that Keith should

664
00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:43.000
<v Speaker 2>have been thoroughly interrogated and even considered a suspect and

665
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:46.840
<v Speaker 2>foul play, but police maintained that they did look into

666
00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:50.599
<v Speaker 2>Keith and simply found no evidence tying him to wrongdoing.

667
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:54.599
<v Speaker 2>It's one of those situations where something definitely could have

668
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:57.440
<v Speaker 2>been done. They could have searched his car or given

669
00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:01.000
<v Speaker 2>him a polygraph, but it just didn't have. With no

670
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:03.960
<v Speaker 2>trace of Tammy turning up in those critical first weeks,

671
00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:08.239
<v Speaker 2>various theories started to emerge, both within law enforcement and

672
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:11.639
<v Speaker 2>among Tammy's family and friends. So let's go through the

673
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:12.280
<v Speaker 2>main theories.

674
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

675
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:27.159
<v Speaker 2>The first theory is that Tammy ran away to start

676
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:27.519
<v Speaker 2>a new.

677
00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:32.000
<v Speaker 3>Life, right which I you kind of thought, well, I

678
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:35.920
<v Speaker 3>can definitely see it. There's behaviors and things that she

679
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:40.719
<v Speaker 3>said that would indicate to me that she wanted to

680
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:42.039
<v Speaker 3>disappear for a little while.

681
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:46.719
<v Speaker 2>And it was essentially the initial police theory. Some investigators,

682
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:50.039
<v Speaker 2>like Detective Lewis, thought that Tammy's erratic behavior was a

683
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:53.119
<v Speaker 2>sign of a mental health crisis, and that maybe she

684
00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:56.719
<v Speaker 2>voluntarily left to get away from her fears or her problems.

685
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:01.760
<v Speaker 2>The anonymous calls bolstered this idea by suggesting that Tammy

686
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:04.559
<v Speaker 2>was alive and just didn't want to be contacted for

687
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:07.920
<v Speaker 2>the time being, and there were a few reported sightings

688
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:10.599
<v Speaker 2>of Tammy in the years after, but of course none

689
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:14.840
<v Speaker 2>were ever confirmed. The problem though with the intentional disappearance

690
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:18.360
<v Speaker 2>theory is that it doesn't really fit Tammy's personality or

691
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:23.880
<v Speaker 2>her habits, although her personality and her habits had really

692
00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:26.719
<v Speaker 2>changed in the year prior to her disappearance. So even

693
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:30.719
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of hard to say. You know, her entire family,

694
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, of course, has consistently said that she would

695
00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:36.199
<v Speaker 2>never do that, and as the years went by with

696
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:39.039
<v Speaker 2>no word from her, the idea that she's out there

697
00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:43.679
<v Speaker 2>living happily somewhere kind of became a little harder to believe. Still,

698
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:46.440
<v Speaker 2>some in law enforcement kept their runaway theory on the

699
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:49.039
<v Speaker 2>table for a long time, even as late as the

700
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.719
<v Speaker 2>mid nineties. A Brevard County sheriff spokesperson said that some

701
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:56.519
<v Speaker 2>authorities quote continue to think that foul play was not

702
00:39:56.800 --> 00:40:01.440
<v Speaker 2>involved end quote in Tammy's case. Now, the second theory,

703
00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:06.719
<v Speaker 2>of course, is that foul play was involved, specifically that

704
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:08.119
<v Speaker 2>Keith Roberts harmed her.

705
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:11.519
<v Speaker 3>The only issue that I would have with that is

706
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:17.519
<v Speaker 3>the timing. Yeah, so we know that he dropped her

707
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:23.119
<v Speaker 3>off outside of the glass building. She goes and uses

708
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:27.119
<v Speaker 3>a payphone, possibly at the gas station next to this.

709
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:30.679
<v Speaker 3>This is three o'clock in the afternoon, right, So even

710
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:33.760
<v Speaker 3>if he circles back to try and find her. It's

711
00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:38.480
<v Speaker 3>the middle of the afternoon, like broad daylight, right, Yeah,

712
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:42.840
<v Speaker 3>so yes, I suppose in theory he could have waited

713
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:46.119
<v Speaker 3>until nightfall. But then how would he have found her.

714
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:48.320
<v Speaker 3>He has no idea where she was going.

715
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:50.840
<v Speaker 2>He's going to follow her in his car all day like.

716
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:54.360
<v Speaker 3>Right, but go go ahead. I just I think that's

717
00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:55.320
<v Speaker 3>a little far fetched.

718
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:58.599
<v Speaker 2>But well, yeah, but you know, he was the last

719
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:02.880
<v Speaker 2>person to see Tammy. They got into an argument. You know,

720
00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:06.480
<v Speaker 2>maybe it escalated into violence, Like could he have snapped

721
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.159
<v Speaker 2>and hurt her and then lie about dropping her off?

722
00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Like maybe he didn't actually drop her off. Maybe she

723
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:14.719
<v Speaker 2>just said, hey, let me pull over. I need to

724
00:41:14.760 --> 00:41:17.360
<v Speaker 2>make some phone calls. Yeah, he waited for her, and

725
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:21.239
<v Speaker 2>she willingly got back in the car, and then something happened.

726
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:25.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, certainly a possibility. I mean, either way, I think

727
00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:27.239
<v Speaker 3>that he should have been investigated a little bit more.

728
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:31.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh and you know, so Keith was a known person

729
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:35.199
<v Speaker 2>to Tammy's family, and according to Linda, Tammy was afraid

730
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:36.920
<v Speaker 2>of him. But again, if she was afraid of him,

731
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:38.480
<v Speaker 2>why would she have gone out with him that day

732
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:41.639
<v Speaker 2>in the first place. I don't know. But going back

733
00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:45.559
<v Speaker 2>to the supposed drug money laundering scheme. If Tammy had

734
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:49.800
<v Speaker 2>seen something illegal, or if she feared someone in her circle,

735
00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:53.559
<v Speaker 2>it's possible that Keith could have been involved in that somehow.

736
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:59.920
<v Speaker 3>So I am curious, do we know anything about this party? No?

737
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:04.400
<v Speaker 3>So perhaps Keith was at this party. He could have been.

738
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:06.440
<v Speaker 3>Keith was the one that took her to the party, he.

739
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:10.880
<v Speaker 2>Could have been. Absolutely. Now, Keith does appear to have

740
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:15.760
<v Speaker 2>at least like one drug arrest, so he does have

741
00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:20.159
<v Speaker 2>some connection to drugs, but nothing that would necessarily indicate

742
00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:22.400
<v Speaker 2>that he was involved in some big like drug money

743
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:26.159
<v Speaker 2>laundering scheme. Now, the third theory is basically what Tammy

744
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:28.920
<v Speaker 2>had been saying in the months leading up to her disappearance,

745
00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:33.079
<v Speaker 2>that she was killed because of something she knew and

746
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:35.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe that didn't have anything to do with Keith.

747
00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:40.360
<v Speaker 2>So this is the theory that Linda Curtis firmly believed. So, remember,

748
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Tammy had told her mother about this laundering operation. She

749
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:49.079
<v Speaker 2>also mentioned that cops, bankers, and other prominent citizens were involved.

750
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:53.239
<v Speaker 2>Tammy implied that knowing about this put her in danger,

751
00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:56.880
<v Speaker 2>and so Linda thinks that Tammy might have been eliminated

752
00:42:57.079 --> 00:43:01.159
<v Speaker 2>by people who were involved basically, you know, she's just

753
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:03.760
<v Speaker 2>saying that, yeah, maybe what Tammy had been saying for

754
00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:08.320
<v Speaker 2>the past year was actually true. Now, of course, there

755
00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:10.840
<v Speaker 2>is also a little bit of a basis. This is

756
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:13.880
<v Speaker 2>the early eighties in Florida, and there was a ton

757
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:18.199
<v Speaker 2>of drug trafficking going around. Cocaine was booming at the time.

758
00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:19.800
<v Speaker 2>That was like the whole point of Scarface.

759
00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:21.400
<v Speaker 3>Was the entire point of Scarface.

760
00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:26.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and yes, there were also several money laundering investigations

761
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.920
<v Speaker 2>going on in the area at that time, so it's

762
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:33.440
<v Speaker 2>not completely impossible that Tammy could have overheard or seen

763
00:43:33.559 --> 00:43:36.840
<v Speaker 2>something related to that. Now, if this theory is true,

764
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:40.199
<v Speaker 2>then the likely scenario is that someone Tammy knew, maybe

765
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:42.719
<v Speaker 2>the French who bragged or an associate of that friend,

766
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:46.519
<v Speaker 2>lured her or ambushed her after she left Keith's car.

767
00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:49.880
<v Speaker 2>Unless you believe that Keith is related to this right

768
00:43:50.199 --> 00:43:54.000
<v Speaker 2>right now, you can't imagine that if she was truly frightened,

769
00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:56.760
<v Speaker 2>she might have agreed to meet someone who promised to help,

770
00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:01.239
<v Speaker 2>only to be betrayed. This is obviously allative, but Linda

771
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:05.599
<v Speaker 2>Felter was too coincidental that Tammy disappeared, you know, after

772
00:44:05.719 --> 00:44:08.320
<v Speaker 2>being paranoid about just this thing happening.

773
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:09.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

774
00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Now, another theory that's not related to any of this

775
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:16.480
<v Speaker 2>is that a serial killer abducted Tammy.

776
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:17.239
<v Speaker 3>Of course.

777
00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:20.559
<v Speaker 2>Now, the early eighties saw a number of serial killers

778
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:25.079
<v Speaker 2>operating in Florida, so naturally Tammy's case was compared against

779
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:29.519
<v Speaker 2>their patterns. The most prominent of these was Christopher Wilder,

780
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:34.199
<v Speaker 2>who's sometimes called the Beauty Queen Killer. Wilder was an

781
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:38.559
<v Speaker 2>Australian born serial killer who lived in South Florida. In

782
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:42.760
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty four, the year after Tammy's disappearance, he embarked

783
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:46.559
<v Speaker 2>on a brutal cross country spree of abducting, raping, and

784
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:51.440
<v Speaker 2>killing young women. His mo was to lure aspiring models

785
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:55.840
<v Speaker 2>by offering photography gigs, which made people immediately think of him.

786
00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:59.639
<v Speaker 2>In Tammy's case, Yeah, after all, she was a model

787
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:02.920
<v Speaker 2>and actor and was exactly the type of girl who

788
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:06.320
<v Speaker 2>he would target. Now, even though his killing spree wasn't

789
00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:09.599
<v Speaker 2>known to have started until the next year, one of

790
00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Wilder's earliest suspected crimes was the abduction of a girl

791
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:18.400
<v Speaker 2>from a mall in Cocoa Beach in nineteen eighty three,

792
00:45:18.639 --> 00:45:22.599
<v Speaker 2>which is the town and the year that Tammy went

793
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:26.199
<v Speaker 2>missing from Yea. Wilder wasn't caught for anything then, but

794
00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:30.119
<v Speaker 2>once his nineteen eighty four spree was identified, people retroactively

795
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:34.519
<v Speaker 2>linked him to earlier disappearances in Florida. Now Linda Curtis

796
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:38.719
<v Speaker 2>initially latched onto Wilder as a possible culprit. She even

797
00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:42.039
<v Speaker 2>claimed that Wilder had met Tammy on the set of

798
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Spring Break in nineteen eighty two. Interesting, Linda said that

799
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:52.239
<v Speaker 2>a man resembling him visited her modeling agency multiple times

800
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:56.320
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen eighty three looking for models. Now, of course

801
00:45:56.320 --> 00:45:59.079
<v Speaker 2>we don't know if it was actually Wilder, but that's

802
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:03.960
<v Speaker 2>what Linda said believed. Linda even filed a one million

803
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:09.599
<v Speaker 2>dollar wrongful death lawsuit against Wilder, accusing him of abducting

804
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:14.280
<v Speaker 2>and likely killing Tammy. However, after Wilder was killed in

805
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:18.039
<v Speaker 2>a police shootout in nineteen eighty four, she dropped the lawsuit.

806
00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:21.400
<v Speaker 2>She later admitted that she never truly thought that Wilder

807
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:24.480
<v Speaker 2>was the person who took Tammy. She was just desperate

808
00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:27.280
<v Speaker 2>and hoped that by sewing she might get leads or

809
00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:31.159
<v Speaker 2>force information out. But in the end police couldn't link

810
00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:35.199
<v Speaker 2>Wilder to Tammy. His crime spirit was well documented once

811
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:38.039
<v Speaker 2>it ended, and none of the known evidence tied him

812
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:42.159
<v Speaker 2>to Tammy's case. Another serial predator that came up was

813
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:47.760
<v Speaker 2>John Brennan Crutchley, known as the Vampire Rapist. He was

814
00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:51.639
<v Speaker 2>a convicted kidnapper slashed rapist in Brevard County who in

815
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:56.360
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty five abducted a woman, assaulted her, and drained

816
00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:57.079
<v Speaker 2>her blood.

817
00:46:57.920 --> 00:46:59.920
<v Speaker 3>Jesus Crutchley was his.

818
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Affected in as many as thirty women's murders. He had

819
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:08.400
<v Speaker 2>moved to Bervard County in nineteen eighty three, shortly before

820
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:12.039
<v Speaker 2>Tammy disappeared. Naturally, when he was arrested in eighty five,

821
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:15.119
<v Speaker 2>police looked at him for any unsolved cases, including Tammy's,

822
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:19.519
<v Speaker 2>but ultimately the Brevard County Sheriff's Department stated that Crutchley

823
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:23.599
<v Speaker 2>is not a suspect in her disappearance. They never found

824
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:26.960
<v Speaker 2>any link, and he died by suicide in prison in

825
00:47:26.960 --> 00:47:27.760
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and two.

826
00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:31.280
<v Speaker 3>See. The only problem that I have with the serial

827
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:37.440
<v Speaker 3>killer aspect is it's a huge coincidence that if a

828
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:41.639
<v Speaker 3>serial killer did kill Tammy, that all of this stuff

829
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:43.679
<v Speaker 3>beforehand was also going on.

830
00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:45.800
<v Speaker 2>And didn't have anything to do with that at any

831
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:49.119
<v Speaker 2>rate to do with it. Yeah, and I've said many

832
00:47:49.159 --> 00:47:52.079
<v Speaker 2>times on the show. I do believe in coincidences.

833
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:55.880
<v Speaker 3>But that's a little that's a lot far fetched, right, Yeah, Like, I.

834
00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:58.480
<v Speaker 2>Cannot believe that she spent a year being completely paranoid

835
00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:00.840
<v Speaker 2>that somebody who's going to kill her and it's related

836
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:03.719
<v Speaker 2>to some like drug trafficking, money laundering scheme, and then

837
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:07.519
<v Speaker 2>it's just a random serial killer going after models, right, Like.

838
00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:11.400
<v Speaker 3>I can't. I don't buy that. Yeah, personally, I think

839
00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:14.239
<v Speaker 3>it was. It was probably a mix of several of

840
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:17.440
<v Speaker 3>these theories, like, well, hold on, I'm not done yet.

841
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:21.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, okay, Yeah, so I've got another one. Because

842
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:24.400
<v Speaker 2>there have been rumors of something else entirely, like an

843
00:48:24.519 --> 00:48:28.480
<v Speaker 2>accident or amnesia. Some people wondered if Tammy might have

844
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:32.239
<v Speaker 2>been pregnant and perhaps died from complications or a back

845
00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:36.440
<v Speaker 2>alley abortion. Now this came up because there was a

846
00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:40.800
<v Speaker 2>rumor that she was three months pregnant when she vanished. However,

847
00:48:41.079 --> 00:48:44.400
<v Speaker 2>no evidence ever surfaced to confirm a pregnancy, and it

848
00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:49.920
<v Speaker 2>remains an anecdote from the family that is unverified her family. Yeah, yeah,

849
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:52.039
<v Speaker 2>so I haven't talked about her older sister yet, but

850
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:53.960
<v Speaker 2>I'll get into her in a little bit. But Apparently

851
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.000
<v Speaker 2>this came from like a post that her sister had

852
00:48:56.039 --> 00:49:00.039
<v Speaker 2>made on something somewhere on the internet that says that

853
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Timmy might have been pregnant when she disappeared, and you know,

854
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:09.320
<v Speaker 2>she asked to borrow three hundred dollars, Like sure, who knows,

855
00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:09.719
<v Speaker 2>you know.

856
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:10.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

857
00:49:11.119 --> 00:49:13.320
<v Speaker 2>Now, over the years, there were also a few tips

858
00:49:13.400 --> 00:49:16.800
<v Speaker 2>that Tammy might be living with amnesia somewhere. Now, none

859
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:20.519
<v Speaker 2>of the tips panned out, But just because they didn't

860
00:49:20.920 --> 00:49:23.679
<v Speaker 2>turn into anything to me, doesn't mean that we can

861
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:27.119
<v Speaker 2>rule them out completely. I think it's very possible that

862
00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:30.480
<v Speaker 2>Tammy didn't meet with foul play, at least not on

863
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:34.039
<v Speaker 2>July sixth, nineteen eighty three. I think that she could

864
00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:38.559
<v Speaker 2>have had a psychotic break and took off completely of

865
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:41.559
<v Speaker 2>her own volition. And maybe she did have amnesia, or

866
00:49:41.559 --> 00:49:45.119
<v Speaker 2>maybe she didn't. Maybe she was just convinced that she

867
00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:48.280
<v Speaker 2>couldn't go home or or whatever, that she had to leave.

868
00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:50.880
<v Speaker 2>And so this is kind of like the theory of

869
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:54.119
<v Speaker 2>her running away to start a new life. But I

870
00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:57.760
<v Speaker 2>don't think it was necessarily like a decision that she made,

871
00:49:58.519 --> 00:49:59.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, Like, I don't think that it was necess

872
00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:03.920
<v Speaker 2>the plan that she had when she set out that morning, right,

873
00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:04.679
<v Speaker 2>if you know what I mean.

874
00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:07.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Yeah, perhaps she had.

875
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:12.079
<v Speaker 2>A psychotic break, did take off, and then eventually became

876
00:50:12.119 --> 00:50:14.760
<v Speaker 2>homeless and just kind of disappeared that way.

877
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:18.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean, that's that's believable.

878
00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:22.639
<v Speaker 2>That was kind of what I was leaning toward. That

879
00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:28.239
<v Speaker 2>her disappearance was absolutely related to the fears that she

880
00:50:28.320 --> 00:50:33.320
<v Speaker 2>had had over the past year, but not necessarily, that

881
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:37.639
<v Speaker 2>the fear was real, that not necessarily somebody was coming

882
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:40.400
<v Speaker 2>to kill her. I think that is possible that something

883
00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:44.559
<v Speaker 2>did happen at the party, perhaps an assault, perhaps something

884
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:51.960
<v Speaker 2>involving drugs, and that triggered something within her mentally, and

885
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:55.239
<v Speaker 2>we saw that kind of bear out over the next year.

886
00:50:56.320 --> 00:50:58.360
<v Speaker 3>I think something happened to her at the party.

887
00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:01.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's what I mean. I think that she was

888
00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:04.119
<v Speaker 2>assaulted at the party. Yes, maybe she was drugged at

889
00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:05.440
<v Speaker 2>the party, maybe both.

890
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:08.360
<v Speaker 3>I think that she was drugged and raped.

891
00:51:08.679 --> 00:51:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think that's very much a possibility, and that's

892
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:14.840
<v Speaker 2>why she changed so much and was withdrawn and sullen

893
00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:17.840
<v Speaker 2>and all of that when she came back, and that

894
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:22.400
<v Speaker 2>it also triggered a mental break basically, Yeah, and that

895
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:26.039
<v Speaker 2>everything we saw for the next year was just the

896
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:31.960
<v Speaker 2>fallout from what happened to her at that party, not

897
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:36.400
<v Speaker 2>necessarily what she saw or what she overheard or whatever.

898
00:51:36.760 --> 00:51:38.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, totally.

899
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:41.079
<v Speaker 2>So, I mean that's that's my general theory. Like, I

900
00:51:41.079 --> 00:51:42.639
<v Speaker 2>don't know, what are your thoughts on this.

901
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:47.840
<v Speaker 3>Well, I completely agree with that. I think that I

902
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:52.960
<v Speaker 3>think something that directly happened directly to her, not necessarily

903
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:57.360
<v Speaker 3>her seeing somebody get murdered or rape, yeah, and that

904
00:51:57.519 --> 00:52:00.039
<v Speaker 3>was triggering all the erratic behavior. I think that it

905
00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:03.800
<v Speaker 3>did trigger some sort of psychotic break and maybe the

906
00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:08.719
<v Speaker 3>person that did this to her at the party was

907
00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:13.159
<v Speaker 3>somebody that was connected, which is why in her mind

908
00:52:13.239 --> 00:52:17.400
<v Speaker 3>and when she had those episodes, she was saying things

909
00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:22.199
<v Speaker 3>about him being somebody of importance or you know whatever,

910
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:26.880
<v Speaker 3>and that spurred on the paranoia, thinking that whoever this

911
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:30.480
<v Speaker 3>important person was that had raped her and drugged her

912
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:35.079
<v Speaker 3>or assaulted her or whatever, had connections and was following her.

913
00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:39.559
<v Speaker 2>That's interesting because I haven't even really given any thought

914
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:43.480
<v Speaker 2>to like who could have done it, you know, But

915
00:52:43.519 --> 00:52:45.880
<v Speaker 2>I think that does make a lot of sense, and

916
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:48.119
<v Speaker 2>it makes sense, you know, Listen, there are a lot

917
00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:53.199
<v Speaker 2>of reasons why somebody wouldn't report an assault. Oh yeah,

918
00:52:53.239 --> 00:52:55.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean a hundred million reasons.

919
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:57.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, I wasn't even going down that rum.

920
00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:03.199
<v Speaker 2>No, But but if that person was either important or

921
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:07.480
<v Speaker 2>connected to something nefarious, I mean, those are two very

922
00:53:07.480 --> 00:53:11.559
<v Speaker 2>good reasons right there. Yeah, right, And so I think

923
00:53:11.559 --> 00:53:13.119
<v Speaker 2>that does make a lot of sense. And I and

924
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:15.880
<v Speaker 2>I just hadn't thought of that at all.

925
00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:21.239
<v Speaker 3>Now, what happened to her afterwards is what I'm a

926
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:26.079
<v Speaker 3>little unsure. Yeah, yeah, you know, I don't. I don't

927
00:53:26.079 --> 00:53:27.159
<v Speaker 3>buy the serial killer.

928
00:53:28.039 --> 00:53:30.159
<v Speaker 2>No, that not in July, because to me, it's just

929
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:34.000
<v Speaker 2>too much of coincidence. Yes, it is very weird that

930
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:37.039
<v Speaker 2>they were so close, that they were kind of in

931
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:42.800
<v Speaker 2>the same orbit as her, But yeah, I just I don't.

932
00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:43.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't buy it.

933
00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:50.239
<v Speaker 3>But I'm not entirely sure that I completely buy into

934
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:54.880
<v Speaker 3>her having a psychotic break and then amnesia then disappearing,

935
00:53:55.559 --> 00:53:55.840
<v Speaker 3>you know.

936
00:53:55.960 --> 00:53:57.639
<v Speaker 2>Right, And that's why I'm saying, like, I don't know

937
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:01.119
<v Speaker 2>that it was amnesia, right, I think it was maybe

938
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:04.000
<v Speaker 2>more of she just thought she couldn't go home. But

939
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:08.199
<v Speaker 2>you would think that after some amount of time would

940
00:54:08.239 --> 00:54:09.000
<v Speaker 2>go by, that.

941
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:12.159
<v Speaker 3>Maybe maybe I would change. But maybe her episodes got

942
00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:13.119
<v Speaker 3>worse and worse.

943
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:15.760
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, maybe they got worse and worse, and maybe she

944
00:54:16.360 --> 00:54:20.239
<v Speaker 2>did meet with foul play in an unrelated event later on,

945
00:54:20.679 --> 00:54:22.599
<v Speaker 2>which you know I mean, and I don't mean anything

946
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:25.119
<v Speaker 2>like a serial killer. I mean just run of the mill,

947
00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:28.280
<v Speaker 2>like when you're living on the streets. Just bad shit

948
00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:32.119
<v Speaker 2>happen sometimes, yeah, kind of way, And that maybe she

949
00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:34.719
<v Speaker 2>ended up in a completely different state. And again, this

950
00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:38.800
<v Speaker 2>is the early eighties. You know, we didn't have name us,

951
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:41.559
<v Speaker 2>we didn't have the DNA dough network, like, there were

952
00:54:41.599 --> 00:54:46.280
<v Speaker 2>a lot of unidentified bodies around. And yes, now today

953
00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:50.079
<v Speaker 2>with technology like we're still identifying people from back then

954
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:53.679
<v Speaker 2>and even older, you know. So I think she very

955
00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:57.679
<v Speaker 2>well could be out there not alive right now and

956
00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:00.320
<v Speaker 2>just nobody knows that it's her.

957
00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:05.079
<v Speaker 3>Or she could have followed through on her plan to

958
00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:09.719
<v Speaker 3>disappear and she started a new life and is still

959
00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:10.639
<v Speaker 3>in hiding.

960
00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:14.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's just not interested in any of it, in

961
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:18.440
<v Speaker 2>letting anybody know about her, and is just living her

962
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:22.920
<v Speaker 2>new life and completely put her pass behind her, because

963
00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:25.760
<v Speaker 2>you'd only be sixty right now. It's not like she

964
00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:28.039
<v Speaker 2>would be incredibly old or anything.

965
00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:30.559
<v Speaker 3>Like that, right And if you think like she she

966
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:36.519
<v Speaker 3>got away, she she was whatever in hiding somewhere. I mean,

967
00:55:36.559 --> 00:55:38.719
<v Speaker 3>who's to say she didn't meet somebody and start her

968
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:42.920
<v Speaker 3>own family and just go with that, because you know, yes,

969
00:55:43.079 --> 00:55:46.519
<v Speaker 3>she I guess she has a sister, but like it's

970
00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:49.599
<v Speaker 3>not like she had you know, a husband kids that

971
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:53.400
<v Speaker 3>she ran out on, you know, right, So I don't know.

972
00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:56.639
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's it's that's certainly a possibility too.

973
00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but do you see why I said at the

974
00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:02.159
<v Speaker 2>beginning that like, I do have a theory, but I

975
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:04.400
<v Speaker 2>could be easily sweet because I just think there are

976
00:56:04.599 --> 00:56:07.880
<v Speaker 2>so many different possibilities as to what happened to her

977
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:10.360
<v Speaker 2>that like, this is in a situation where I'm like,

978
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:13.599
<v Speaker 2>oh no, come on, there's one thing that could have

979
00:56:13.639 --> 00:56:16.280
<v Speaker 2>happened to her. We all know what it is, Like, Yeah,

980
00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:19.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's not that story. I'm not even sold

981
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:21.840
<v Speaker 2>that that Keith really had anything to do with this,

982
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:27.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, yeah, despite despite his being shady.

983
00:56:26.599 --> 00:56:29.199
<v Speaker 3>I mean, he was also a twenty year old kid

984
00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:31.840
<v Speaker 3>that probably just didn't want to talk to the cops. Yeah,

985
00:56:31.880 --> 00:56:37.000
<v Speaker 3>you know right, So I don't know, there's a tremendous

986
00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:40.679
<v Speaker 3>amount of possibilities of where she could have gone throughout

987
00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:41.159
<v Speaker 3>the years.

988
00:56:41.239 --> 00:56:44.239
<v Speaker 2>Tammy's mother, Linda continued to search for answers and her

989
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:49.239
<v Speaker 2>daughter's disappearance. Sadly, she passed away on October fifth, nineteen

990
00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:50.960
<v Speaker 2>ninety five, at the age.

991
00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:52.920
<v Speaker 3>Of fifty four. Oh that's young.

992
00:56:53.239 --> 00:56:57.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, without ever learning what happened to Tammy. An article

993
00:56:57.719 --> 00:57:00.000
<v Speaker 2>after her death said that she died without an ante

994
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:04.119
<v Speaker 2>her to the mystery of her missing daughter. Now and again,

995
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:06.880
<v Speaker 2>she did have I think she had cancer, she had

996
00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:09.760
<v Speaker 2>heart failure, she had like all sorts of things happening,

997
00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:12.519
<v Speaker 2>and I think she had been sick for a while.

998
00:57:12.519 --> 00:57:14.679
<v Speaker 2>And so that's why I was like questioning whether she

999
00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:17.159
<v Speaker 2>was either driving at that point or you know what

1000
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:21.000
<v Speaker 2>it was. She was on the Insult Mysteries episode and

1001
00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:23.119
<v Speaker 2>she looked like she was in relatively good health at

1002
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:26.960
<v Speaker 2>that point. But you know, who can say her mom

1003
00:57:27.079 --> 00:57:33.320
<v Speaker 2>dying twelve years after Tammy's disappearance really kind of makes

1004
00:57:33.320 --> 00:57:36.400
<v Speaker 2>me think that, you know, if she did choose to leave,

1005
00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:38.760
<v Speaker 2>I feel like with her mother dad, because that was

1006
00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:40.840
<v Speaker 2>like her closest family.

1007
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:43.719
<v Speaker 3>Oh, it solidifies that she wouldn't come back.

1008
00:57:44.079 --> 00:57:46.199
<v Speaker 2>You think, so, you think she wouldn't just like pop

1009
00:57:46.199 --> 00:57:49.159
<v Speaker 2>her head out and be like, okay, well I'm here,

1010
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:51.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm okay, Like don't worry about me. Everybody just leave

1011
00:57:51.639 --> 00:57:52.039
<v Speaker 2>me alone.

1012
00:57:53.199 --> 00:57:54.559
<v Speaker 3>No, I think the exact opposite.

1013
00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:56.599
<v Speaker 2>Really, yeah, you think that now that her mom says,

1014
00:57:56.599 --> 00:57:57.679
<v Speaker 2>she's like, well, there's.

1015
00:57:57.519 --> 00:58:00.719
<v Speaker 3>Nothing, no reason to come out of hiding or go

1016
00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:04.119
<v Speaker 3>back and say yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, especially after twelve years.

1017
00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:07.840
<v Speaker 3>You know, she had probably started a new life if

1018
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:09.400
<v Speaker 3>we are if that's what happens.

1019
00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Of course, Well, since Linda's death, Tammy's case has largely

1020
00:58:13.800 --> 00:58:18.480
<v Speaker 2>been championed by her older sister, Suzanne. Suzanne created online

1021
00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:21.360
<v Speaker 2>pages and forums, even back in the early days of

1022
00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:25.679
<v Speaker 2>the Internet, to keep Tammy's story alive. She ran a

1023
00:58:25.719 --> 00:58:29.320
<v Speaker 2>website and now a Facebook page titled My Missing Sister

1024
00:58:29.480 --> 00:58:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Tammy Leppert, where she shares memories and pleads for information.

1025
00:58:34.559 --> 00:58:37.480
<v Speaker 2>In one post, she wrote, quote, please help me find

1026
00:58:37.480 --> 00:58:40.960
<v Speaker 2>out what happened to my sister. Is she alive or dead?

1027
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:45.599
<v Speaker 2>I just want to know? End quote. That simple please

1028
00:58:45.800 --> 00:58:49.559
<v Speaker 2>encapsulates with Tammy's family and so many other families of

1029
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:53.480
<v Speaker 2>long term missing people have won it all along. Not revenge,

1030
00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:58.440
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily even prosecution, just the truth. And you know,

1031
00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:00.679
<v Speaker 2>we kind of talked about this a little before, but

1032
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:03.320
<v Speaker 2>what gives me a little bit of hope in this

1033
00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:08.079
<v Speaker 2>case is modern technology. All it takes is one hit

1034
00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:12.079
<v Speaker 2>in a DNA database or one person with knowledge deciding

1035
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:15.519
<v Speaker 2>to speak up. We've seen several cases as old as

1036
00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:18.599
<v Speaker 2>Tammy's or older that have been solved in recent years

1037
00:59:18.599 --> 00:59:23.159
<v Speaker 2>through genetic genealogy. There's no known crime scene, DNA here

1038
00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:27.119
<v Speaker 2>or anything like that, but if Tammy's remains are out

1039
00:59:27.159 --> 00:59:30.639
<v Speaker 2>there unidentified, there's a chance that they could be matched

1040
00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:34.360
<v Speaker 2>to her someday with a DNA profile that's on file.

1041
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.920
<v Speaker 2>And again, I don't know if Tammy's DNA profile is

1042
00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:40.519
<v Speaker 2>on file, but at the very least we do have

1043
00:59:40.599 --> 00:59:43.119
<v Speaker 2>her relatives. Whether it's her mom or sister, I'm not sure,

1044
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:46.239
<v Speaker 2>but I do know that there is DNA in the

1045
00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:51.440
<v Speaker 2>national database, so if somebody does pop up, they do

1046
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:54.840
<v Speaker 2>have something to test it against. Over the years, every

1047
00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:57.719
<v Speaker 2>once in a while, a new lead will surface, but

1048
00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:02.519
<v Speaker 2>then fade. Yet tammy siblings and extended family have never

1049
01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:06.639
<v Speaker 2>given up hope of finding answers. They continue to push

1050
01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:10.400
<v Speaker 2>for the truth. Even the community in Bervard County remembers her.

1051
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:14.400
<v Speaker 2>She's something of a local legend, the beautiful girl who

1052
01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:38.559
<v Speaker 2>vanished and left a haunting mystery behind. Timmy Lynn Leopard

1053
01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:41.599
<v Speaker 2>has been missing from Cocoa Beach, Florida, since July sixth,

1054
01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:45.280
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty three. She's a white female with blonde hair

1055
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:48.079
<v Speaker 2>and hazel eyes. She was last seen wearing a blue

1056
01:00:48.159 --> 01:00:51.199
<v Speaker 2>denim skirt, a light blue shirt with flower applicats on

1057
01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:54.639
<v Speaker 2>the shoulders, and flip flops. She was carrying a gray

1058
01:00:54.679 --> 01:00:58.320
<v Speaker 2>purse at the time of her disappearance. She was approximately

1059
01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:01.079
<v Speaker 2>five foot four and one hundred five to one hundred

1060
01:01:01.079 --> 01:01:04.920
<v Speaker 2>and fifteen pounds. Tammy was eighteen when she went missing.

1061
01:01:05.320 --> 01:01:08.559
<v Speaker 2>She would be sixty today. If you have any information

1062
01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:11.800
<v Speaker 2>about the disappearance of Tammu Ln Leopard, please contact the

1063
01:01:11.800 --> 01:01:15.679
<v Speaker 2>Cocoa Beach Police Department at three two one eight six

1064
01:01:15.800 --> 01:01:19.519
<v Speaker 2>eight three two five to one. You can see all

1065
01:01:19.559 --> 01:01:21.880
<v Speaker 2>the sources for this episode on with photos and videos

1066
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:24.239
<v Speaker 2>at our website and then they Were Gone dot.

1067
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:26.800
<v Speaker 3>Com and be sure to follow us on social and

1068
01:01:26.840 --> 01:01:30.880
<v Speaker 3>then they Were Gone Pod on Facebook and at attwgpod

1069
01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:33.519
<v Speaker 3>on Instagram and TikTok. If you like what we're doing,

1070
01:01:33.559 --> 01:01:36.239
<v Speaker 3>please subscribe and consider leaving a five star review on

1071
01:01:36.280 --> 01:01:39.840
<v Speaker 3>Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It will help new listeners find

1072
01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:42.719
<v Speaker 3>us and the more people that listen, the more chances

1073
01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:44.119
<v Speaker 3>we have of bringing someone home.

1074
01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:46.559
<v Speaker 2>And we'll see you here next week for a brand

1075
01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:47.199
<v Speaker 2>new episode.

1076
01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:48.280
<v Speaker 3>See you next week.

1077
01:01:48.920 --> 01:01:51.239
<v Speaker 2>And Then They Were Gone as hosted by Kona Gallagher

1078
01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:54.039
<v Speaker 2>and Ethan Flick. Our research, writing and editing is done

1079
01:01:54.039 --> 01:01:58.280
<v Speaker 2>by me ConA Gallagher. The music is The Stork by Ketza.

1080
01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:01.599
<v Speaker 2>Additional music is provided by High Angle. And Then They

1081
01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:03.880
<v Speaker 2>Were Gone is a little Monster production.

1082
01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:06.079
<v Speaker 3>Hey you could do it.