WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:03.799 I want to welcome everyone back to the Pecana Show 2 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:07.080 after a little bit of a break. Thomas is back. 3 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:10.800 Are you doing, Thomas, I'm very well. 4 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:14.839 Thanks for giving me the opportunity to collaborate on some 5 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:20.320 stuff before the big Portland basket weaving event. And this 6 00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:23.120 is an important subject area. I mean, for just on 7 00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:28.440 its own terms, but it dovetails rather splendidly and kind 8 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:32.000 of like indexes with the long form stuff I'm working on, 9 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:36.359 and it's especially timely with kind of the trajectory I've 10 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:38.960 been trying to steer things, at least in our kind 11 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:41.679 of intellectual circles, like not I don't like vanity or 12 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:46.240 just because I've got a hobbyist interest in this stuff, 13 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:50.399 but it's it's fundamentally important and I'll get into that 14 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:51.960 as we roll out this subject. 15 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:57.479 Yeah, are our buddy, uh mister Rimbo, who was on 16 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.520 the episode where you were you guys were talking about 17 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:02.759 being on the ground of the d n C. He's 18 00:01:02.799 --> 00:01:05.760 the one who recommended this, so shout out to him 19 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:06.439 and everything. 20 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:11.920 So he's an essential He's an essential part of homeland fiction, 21 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.879 even though he's even though he's not truly local, and 22 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.560 he's like an essential part of like my entourage. Like 23 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:21.000 he's he's uh, he's going to be hitting Portland with me, 24 00:01:21.079 --> 00:01:21.799 which is awesome. 25 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:25.680 Yeah, what when you said how much you guys hung 26 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:27.840 out and everything, I figured he was local to And 27 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:29.480 then when he told me where he was from, I 28 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:30.599 was like, holy shit. 29 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:35.280 No, he's a good dude, and he he's builting fairm 30 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:38.079 in a vacation time, so he traveled a fair amount 31 00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:41.439 and I'm lucky he's he likes Chicago and like a 32 00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:45.040 lot of like Wallbanger and Hunger that Die Merchant. They 33 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:47.319 were in town last week and we had a great time. 34 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:50.000 But you know, they hadn't been to Shytown before. And 35 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:52.599 I think people think it's either really grimy because of 36 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:54.879 what they see on the news and all that kind 37 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:57.359 of cap about how awful it is here, or they 38 00:01:57.359 --> 00:01:59.799 think it's just kind of like other things, just kind 39 00:01:59.799 --> 00:02:02.280 of like New York City was smaller, Like they they 40 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:06.200 really impressed it how cool it is, and so Rimbau. I, Yeah, 41 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:07.719 we we have a lot of fun here man, and 42 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.919 he's he's a really good dude. I owe him a lot, 43 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:13.479 and I mean I will have that fellas a lot. 44 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:17.680 But he he especially he's he sends a huge amount. 45 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.759 He's like a research machine. And I mean, i'd like 46 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:23.639 to think guy him too, But I'm not as young 47 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:25.840 as I once was, and I'm surely not as young 48 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:29.199 as he is. And he he's always finding like really 49 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:33.439 really great sources that I've never I've never come across. 50 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:38.240 Cool. Well, the wife and I talked about this this 51 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:41.080 past year and it didn't happen. But we're gonna have 52 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:42.719 to drive up and hang out with you like when 53 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:45.319 the when the weather breaks, once winter breaks, come up 54 00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:46.759 for like the spring or something like that. 55 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:49.280 Yeah, that'd be great, man, You'll have a lot of fun. 56 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:54.319 And so well, uh, missus Q. There's a there's a 57 00:02:54.360 --> 00:02:56.560 lot of there's a lot of stuff I can show you, 58 00:02:56.599 --> 00:02:58.879 guys that you'll really dig. Man. Everybody has fun when 59 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:01.039 they come here, and i'd like to think I'd like 60 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:03.240 to think I'm a pretty decent tour guide. 61 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:09.360 Mean, all right, let's get into it. Uh, mister Eric Hobsbaum, 62 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:11.280 A lot of people probably have never heard of him, 63 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:15.400 but you mentioned him all the time, usually in passing, 64 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:21.719 usually just quoting him something like that. So let's do 65 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:22.360 the deep dive. 66 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:34.479 Well, I'm he was a true left Heglien. People invoked 67 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:39.199 that signifier or designation rather to talk about any any 68 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:44.639 Marxist aconemic because in the public mind and kind of 69 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:49.840 in academic culture, you know, any any Marxist historian or 70 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:52.879 a historical writer is you know, exiomatically a left hag Alien. 71 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:58.919 I I think exception to that descriptor for a few reasons. 72 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:03.560 I mean, you can't, like, in its own terms, dialectical materialism, 73 00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:07.599 it can't be Hegelian because it removes you know, providential 74 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:19.839 causation from it's h from from from its historicism, and 75 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:26.920 you know, there's a arguably it abolishes metaphysics, you know 76 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:29.399 what I mean obviously, So I mean that's it's it's 77 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:32.480 something of as our Marxist friends themselves would say, a 78 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:38.959 fatal contradiction. But HOBSBAUGHM. Hobsbam really was like a left 79 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:41.800 he Gaelian in the purest sense. And I think his 80 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:44.920 take on things, I mean, obviously we don't know, and 81 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:51.879 I've read Imperialism by Lenin many times, but I mean 82 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:56.600 Lenin wasn't Lenin was kind of the consummate political soldier. 83 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:58.399 You know, It's not like he was something prolific. I 84 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.160 mean it was. He was prolific for the roly and 85 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:02.959 in terms of his academic output. But you know, it's 86 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:05.360 not like he was. It's not like he was like 87 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:11.639 Angles or something and putting out you know, endless, endless 88 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:14.920 manuscripts or something. But I see hobbs one On probably 89 00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:18.079 was like the most like Lenin himself, you know, in 90 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:22.879 terms of his kind of political ontology as well as 91 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:29.480 in terms of how he characterize historical processes and you know, 92 00:05:29.560 --> 00:05:32.399 how outcomes they're in should be judged, you know, whether 93 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:38.680 they are whether they advance the revolutionary imperative and in 94 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:44.240 a progressive sense, or whether they are self defeating, you know. 95 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:46.480 And so Hobsbam he was I think of him too, 96 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:48.560 is he was really much kind of like a counterweight 97 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.480 to arn SOINOLDI. They had a lot of similarities, Like 98 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.879 their backgrounds very different. You know, Hobsbaum was a Polish 99 00:05:55.959 --> 00:06:02.680 Jew whose father was an English subject. But there's there's 100 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:07.240 commonalities to their I mean, they're very they're very much 101 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:12.759 opposites or were opposites, but there's seat of a common 102 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:16.160 frame of reference in terms of what they would have 103 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.560 viewed as authoritative and you know, what they considered to 104 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:25.920 be sort of the essential canon of political philosophy and 105 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:30.160 Hasbom Also, he got this reputation people haven't really read him, 106 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:33.639 so they veeve him as like this unreconstructed quote unquote Stalinist. 107 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:37.680 That's not really true. But he did refuse he had 108 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:42.399 contempt for the New Left, and he refused to abandon 109 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.240 allegiance to the Soviet Union in fifty six and in 110 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.319 sixty eight. You know, he was he was an orthodox 111 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.399 in Culdmart terms in orthodox Marxist Leninists, which meant he 112 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:57.680 was in the Soviet camp and in the sun of 113 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:02.399 Soviet split. He had great disdain for China for various reasons. 114 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:06.120 So these like schismatic tendencies, the fact he opposed all 115 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:10.600 these schismatic tendencies and the fact he was somewhat critical 116 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:14.279 a cruse chief like that didn't make him some hardline Stalinists, 117 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:16.759 you know, Like he wasn't the kind of guy who 118 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:20.759 would say sit there and say like Eric Honnecker was 119 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:24.240 like a great general secretary or that like the DDR 120 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:26.600 had like a perfect system, and there were guys who 121 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:32.199 thought that way, you know. But so the key to 122 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.480 the key to this does kind of require like a 123 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:41.759 deep dive and I find myself. You know what, so 124 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:44.040 people might ask themselves, you know, what does this have 125 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.120 to do with the present? I mean a couple of things. 126 00:07:46.839 --> 00:07:48.720 You know, if you want to understand the twentieth century, 127 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:52.680 you've got to understand marcsist Leninism. You understand Marsus Leninism, 128 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.759 that you got to understand the body of theory and 129 00:07:55.959 --> 00:08:00.360 his theory of history that you know, kind of frame 130 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:05.759 the conceptual horizon that you know, nourish the it's it's 131 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.279 revolutionary imperatives, you know. And if if you understand the 132 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:11.680 twenty first century, you got to understand the twentieth century 133 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:18.759 and that entire dialectical process bus today, this kind of thought, 134 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:22.519 this kind of true left to Gaian thoughts made a comeback. 135 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:24.759 Like guys think that guy Jackson Hinkel and a lot 136 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:28.040 of people need he's a crank. He's really not, you know, 137 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:31.040 and like he's I think he's partly funded by the 138 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:36.799 same kinds of elements that fund like Zuganov's like reconstituted 139 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:41.120 Communist Party. I'm not saying that, sinister, you know, I 140 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:45.399 shouted out about this on social media, but you know, 141 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:49.759 these guys aren't woke you know. That's why when Hank 142 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:53.759 goldenfines himself as like a social conservative, that's not inconsistent, 143 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:59.440 you know. And that's one of the reasons when people 144 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:03.080 drop this bullshit calling everything they don't like Marxist. It's 145 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:06.799 like that's it's not like Kamala Harris isn't a Marxist, 146 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.840 you know, Obama is not a Marxist like American uh, 147 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:16.039 American style social engineering and all the kind of bizarre 148 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:19.720 stuff that goes into that isn't isn't Marxism, you know. 149 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:23.639 So I think I think this stuff is more timely 150 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:26.960 than a lot of people willing to acknowledge, you know, 151 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:31.360 even if even if political theory is not really you know, 152 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:37.120 in your proverbial wheelhouse or something. But I'm gonna jump 153 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:41.879 around a bit if it's too scatter shot or if 154 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:44.600 or or if something is not clear, like please stop 155 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:45.279 me and I'll. 156 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:52.440 I'll kind of adjust. Uh, no problem, go ahead, no problem, 157 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:54.879 I'll uh, I'll interrupt if I have something. 158 00:09:55.080 --> 00:10:02.360 Oh yeah, yeah, no for sure. In nineteen ninety four, Hobsbam. 159 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:06.080 Hobsbam had a certain degree of prominence, especially in the UK, 160 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:10.159 you know, throughout his kind of academic career, even though 161 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:13.080 he didn't really involve himself in public policy debates, with 162 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:16.919 the exception of the Thatcher era, and we'll get into 163 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.399 that in a minute. But in nineteen ninety four, when 164 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:23.440 a lot of kind of retrospective stuff on the Cold 165 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:26.799 War was popping up in media, you know, that's when 166 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.480 like Nixon was I mean, Nixon died I think in 167 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:33.000 ninety four, like ninety four, ninety five, but you know, 168 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:35.720 Nixon have been making the rounds in nineteen ninety nineteen 169 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:40.240 ninety two, there there was a lot of a lot 170 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:43.919 of a lot of colder academics who were being asked, 171 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:46.960 you know, for their to render kind of their their 172 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:53.759 their diagnosis of the events the preceding half decade and stuff. Hosbam, Uh, 173 00:10:54.360 --> 00:11:02.720 he's being interviewed by Michael Ignattu, you know, an Ignocatave 174 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:05.879 was very much try to put him in the hot 175 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:15.759 seat and asking him loaded questions. And Hosmum famously said 176 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:20.360 that had the Soviet Union succeeded in realizing a communist 177 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:25.600 society and had it been able to fulfill its ambition 178 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:35.360 of you know, facilitating a world historical revolutionary imperative, Hobsam 179 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:39.320 said that the deaths of twenty million people or however 180 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:43.159 many perished in Stalin's death camps, would have been worth it. 181 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:46.559 So ignoctave, you know, famously like being clutching at his 182 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:53.399 pearls verbially speaking. And Hobswom's rebuttal was, you know, Marx 183 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:57.559 himself said that no rate movement has been born without, 184 00:11:57.799 --> 00:12:01.159 you know, the shedding of blood. And you know, Haze 185 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:03.879 fought it up by saying, you know, self sacrifice isn't 186 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.559 the only kind of sacrifice that was in the contemplation 187 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:11.480 of Marx or Lenin or anybody else. You know, but 188 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:16.159 this wasn't the standard maya culpa or whatever. Like a 189 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:19.639 lot of like a lot of kind of like normany 190 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:21.440 cohns think, as well as a lot of kind of 191 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.799 new left types. This this wasn't just Hobbswaen being deliberately 192 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.039 callous or something. But you got to understand the vantage 193 00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:36.159 point from where he's speaking, Like historical processes aren't. They're 194 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:42.360 not the result of conspiratorial designs by like criminal actors. 195 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:46.200 You know, they're not. Even even if you're a true vanguardist, 196 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:49.519 even if you kind of accept Rousseau's if you with 197 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:53.799 a general will and Hobswell very much. Did you know, 198 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:58.799 of course the General Will doesn't speaks, he's not. Rousseau 199 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:01.279 wasn't referring to like the body politic as a whole, 200 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.679 like it could be just like narrow discrete elements within 201 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:11.720 the political organism who's uh, whose commitments and whose conceptual 202 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:15.759 horizon like indexes very strongly, you know, with a revolutionary 203 00:13:15.879 --> 00:13:21.559 leadership element, you know, But uh, that does. But these 204 00:13:21.600 --> 00:13:25.440 people are still what they're doing is they're they're engaging 205 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:31.480 very intimately in psychological and political terms, with historical processes. 206 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:35.840 They're not creating these conditions. So if you ask, you know, 207 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:38.080 so so trying to trying to put Nolty on the 208 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:40.440 hot seat like this, we're trying to put on the 209 00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:43.159 hot seat like this. It's similar to what haramaz and 210 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:46.399 his his acolytes and allies we'll try to do to Nolty, 211 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.799 you know, like, oh, you're you're justifying these monstrous crimes. 212 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:53.840 You know, and always said, no, nobody's justifying anything. But 213 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:56.600 if you're talking about the historical process, and you're talking 214 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:02.080 about warfare at massive scale, at literally planetary scale, where 215 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:05.480 we're not talking about decisions made by discrete individual actors. 216 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:08.440 We're not talking about people committing crimes, you know, we're 217 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:13.279 we're talking about events that are truly providential or you know, 218 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:17.600 if you're an atheist like Cosbomb, truly providential, okay. And 219 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:21.120 even if you assign a purely material the conslation of 220 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:25.559 purely material causes, you know, to these things. It's a 221 00:14:25.559 --> 00:14:30.960 constellation of variables, so myriad, so complex at such scale, 222 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:36.960 nobody can be said to be like responsible as a 223 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:42.759 as a as a causative agent in approximate terms. So 224 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:45.799 who was who was? Who was Eric Hosbom? I thought 225 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:49.519 it was actually born in Egypt? You know, his father 226 00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:56.919 was Leopold Percy Hobsbamb. It's believed that the original surname 227 00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:02.720 was a ups Bomb, but uh, a combination of deliberate 228 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:08.159 anglicization of the surname and clerical error led to it 229 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:16.799 becoming Hobsbamb. His father had been some kind of merchant 230 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:19.240 who was originally from the East End of London. But 231 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:24.519 he but he was a Polish jew. His mother, uh 232 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:31.120 was a Jewish woman named Nellie Gruen who had come 233 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:34.799 from a middle class family. And then then you know, 234 00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:36.679 and then had what was then you know, the Hapster 235 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:43.879 Empire in Austria. Howamerlaye that like he was self consciously 236 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.639 Jewish because his parents conveyed to him, you know, the 237 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.360 like like to take his though seriously. But he said 238 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.919 he was raised in basically like an atheist household. He's like, 239 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.600 it was a very Jewish household, but it wasn't religious, 240 00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:59.960 you know, And that that wasn't really strange for a 241 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:02.399 hob Thom was born in nineteen seventeen. I mean, that 242 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:04.919 was that's very much a twentieth century thing. You know. 243 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.240 I everatize the people again and again, like nobody thinks 244 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.919 this way anymore, Like the remaining the remaining self declared 245 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:16.000 atheists who have any kind of public profile, like nobody 246 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:19.320 nobody takes them seriously anymore, you know. And I mean 247 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:22.960 really that kind of thing was dead by you know, 248 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:26.879 by the end of the nineteen nineties, but there was 249 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:31.399 some there's some peculiar holdouts, and it had something of 250 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.600 it had something of a media profile, particularly in new 251 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:41.080 media right before it's kind of final death as a 252 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:47.720 culturally relevant quantity. But you know, so hot One had 253 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:50.879 a fairly cause of pol and upbring. You know, he 254 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:54.360 wasn't he wasn't some ghetto wise Jew who was sitting 255 00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:56.639 around reading Marx and Engels and kind of like nursing 256 00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:59.080 these grudges and stuff. I mean, like, don't get me wrong, 257 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:03.559 I'm sure that his ethnos and the you know they 258 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:09.319 kind of conceptual biases and intrinsic to that sort of 259 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:14.400 household like absolutely informed his perspective. But you know, he wasn't. 260 00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:18.119 He wasn't some guy from you know, the Pale Settlement 261 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:21.359 or something, or from or from some impoverished the you 262 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:25.920 know tenement in Poland. And I've heard people speculate that 263 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.599 the effect who want to throw shade out of him 264 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:32.359 like that, that's just like not accurate. But he, uh, 265 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:38.319 he was a teenage he ultimately his father died when 266 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:40.240 he was when he was quite young. I think when 267 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:46.279 he was twelve or thirteen years old, he was sent 268 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:49.960 to Uh he was sent to live with his aunt. 269 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:52.440 A couple of years later and his sister, and when 270 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:58.119 his mother died as well, his maternal aunt and uh, 271 00:17:58.279 --> 00:18:01.680 they settled in Berlin. And then when ah, when the 272 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:06.599 National Socialist revolution kicked off or whatever, remember when the 273 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:12.119 National Socialists got their uh parliamentary plurality, which may you know, 274 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.759 became a problematic majority after the KPD was was outlawed 275 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:19.920 owing to the attack on the Reichs the Reichstag fire. 276 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.680 You know, they they they had an absolute majority. But 277 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:28.480 Hobswam returned to the United Kingdom. When I say returned, 278 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:32.640 his father was an English subject, so young Hoswallm wasn't 279 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:35.799 considered like he was considered. He was also considered to 280 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:39.240 be a subject of the Empire, you know, and not 281 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:46.799 subject to laws regarding alienage and things like that. He 282 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:52.559 attended King's College at Cambridge. You know, he became UH. 283 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.200 He joined the Communist Party of Great Britain basically as 284 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:56.640 like as soon as he was of age. You know, 285 00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:58.559 I think when he was nineteen years old. I think 286 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:02.920 you had to be eighteen to join in those days. 287 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:07.720 But you know, he got He took his doctorate from 288 00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:13.160 a from Cambridge, and I believe his thesis, his PhD 289 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:15.920 thesis is on the history of the Fabian society and 290 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:22.960 Fabian socialism, you know, and Hobsbaum's commitments as well as 291 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:33.480 his his particular kind of brand of UH of Marxist thoughts. 292 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:37.279 It was very much it was ver much derivative of 293 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:41.160 that of the of the English Communist Party, the Communist 294 00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:44.519 Party in Great Britain. Okay, Like when I say derivative, 295 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:47.000 I don't mean that in punitive terms. But what I 296 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.119 mean is hobs Bom quite literally identified himself as a 297 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:54.200 quote Red Tory, you know. And we'll get into what 298 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:58.720 they had means the implications that add. But guys like 299 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:01.519 Kim Philby and the Cambridge they they were cut from 300 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:06.200 the same kind of cloth, you know. The the commun 301 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:10.279 is probably a Great Britain. They were very much a 302 00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:12.799 fifth column during the Cold War in a way that 303 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:17.960 other similar elements weren't on the continent because they were 304 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:20.279 they they they were Orthodox marcus a lot in this 305 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.200 They unconditionally supported the Soviet Union, you know, they so 306 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:27.519 they they were very much in the Cold War. You know, 307 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.240 there's more of a bunch of Trotskyists, you know, trying 308 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:36.920 to trying to cultivate electoral respectability. No were they uh 309 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.200 you know, no were they were they like active as liberals, 310 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:44.559 the kinds who find themselves in and n geosynecures who 311 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:47.720 who were kind of Communists in name only, like they're 312 00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:53.039 they're the genuine article. They're pro Soviet. They were loyal 313 00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:55.640 to Stalin. Subsequently, they were loyal to his memory. But 314 00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.480 they were not uncritical, you know. They they they very 315 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:04.400 much viewed the situation as you know, for all of 316 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:11.359 its frailties and for all of it's less than ideal 317 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.640 characteristics and situatedness. You know, the Soviet Union is what 318 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:18.000 we have in this world, and this world is all 319 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:26.799 there is, you know, So it's suicidally short sighted, you know, 320 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:35.359 and and in political terms, to divorce oneself from the 321 00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:40.599 ambitions and the destinies of of the Soviet system. But 322 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:53.519 and interestingly, Hobsbaum he served as a comet engineer during 323 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:57.920 World War Two, and he caught some flak at the 324 00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:02.960 time and in decades subsequent because when the Molotov Ribbon 325 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:11.119 Trot Pact was signed, Hobsbaum and and his ideological fellows 326 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:16.119 and comrades, they they'd shout down people who are critical 327 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:21.480 of the Third Reich because he said, you know, alliance 328 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:26.359 of convenience this may be, or you know, whatever however 329 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:30.680 contrived this non aggression pact may be. You know, this 330 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:35.400 is uh, this is the way things must be, you know, 331 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:38.880 in order for the revolution to be consolidated in situ. 332 00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:45.400 So anybody opposing the Reich or calling for its destruction 333 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:50.920 or calling for Moscow to preemptively assault it, which Moscow 334 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:53.400 is absolutely planning on doing. But people didn't know this 335 00:22:53.559 --> 00:23:00.640 outside of you know, Cadres approximate to the reds are Stalin, 336 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:04.839 you know. But he considered this to be like a 337 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:10.599 kind of revolutionary tendency, which was the orthodox perspective, the 338 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:19.559 orthodox Merci's perspective. But other than that, Hosbaum was very 339 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.000 much like a doctrinal anti fascist, like not not in 340 00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:28.839 Nuremberg terms. But and we'll get into this probably in 341 00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:32.359 the second episode. Hobsmam's take on fascism and national socialism 342 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:38.160 is interesting. It's not it's by no means, you know, dismissed, 343 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:44.279 totally dismissive and some punitive capacity. He says that the 344 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:47.720 strength of fascism was that it mastered technics and technology. 345 00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:53.559 It uh, it was able to imbue people with like 346 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:58.000 a fervent kind of energy to realize its objectives. But 347 00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:03.759 he considered it to be quote phyllis impoverished. And he 348 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:08.400 didn't really seem to understand, uh, he didn't really understand 349 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:17.119 the kind of trajectory of uh, Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Heidegger, you know, 350 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:22.039 to national socialism. Now that some people who have like 351 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:26.400 a punitive like thunderbag like take on Germany and the 352 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.559 Germanis and people in the German state. That's not That's 353 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:32.000 not what Osbon was. That's not what I'm saying, and 354 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:37.880 that's not you know. And Hosbom wasn't prone to that 355 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:44.640 kind of moultive thought either, But like a lot of 356 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.400 doctair and Marxists, he couldn't really see the forest of 357 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.200 the trees. I don't think he understood the enduring power 358 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.920 of continental philosophy outside of Marxist a jacent thinkers, you know, 359 00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:02.759 and informing what what what? What was going on in Italy, 360 00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:05.079 what was going on in Germany, you know, in the 361 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:07.839 inner Warriors. I don't think he understood this. I think 362 00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:10.599 it was one of his blind spots, owing to adherence 363 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:18.279 to you know, uh An ideology and Marxism that that 364 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.160 that that quite literally inundates people with like a missionary 365 00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:28.279 zeal that sometimes uh these were kind of tunnel vision. 366 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:39.200 But you know at uh and again, like I said, 367 00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:44.839 I believe like the Red Tory uh Moniker, you know, 368 00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:48.400 they became kind of bandied about in the UK about 369 00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:51.559 even a lot of these like labor types. You know, 370 00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:54.440 back of the Labor Party was a real party. You know, 371 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:57.200 there were there were these guys who were basically like 372 00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:59.559 we consider them in America to be like you know, 373 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:03.279 we get sided to be like like like right wing 374 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:11.880 type type of figures. But for the fact that you know, 375 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:15.640 they uh, they were very much uh socialists in there 376 00:26:16.039 --> 00:26:19.359 in their orientation. You know, they believe in state socialism 377 00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:22.279 both as like an ethical postulate as well as a 378 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:27.279 kind of inevitability if if if the modern state was 379 00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:31.240 to survive, you know, with any kind of with any 380 00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:36.680 kind of legitimacy. So yeah, how long you're going to 381 00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:41.200 like Tory communists? Uh, not a red Tory, but uh 382 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:46.359 that uh And again that seems paradoxical to people, but 383 00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:52.160 again it's I I refer to you know, Zugonov's Communist Party, 384 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:55.559 you know, to Jackson Hinkle. But even you know, in 385 00:26:55.920 --> 00:27:00.400 historical capacities, this this resonated with people who had a 386 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:06.240 developed understanding of political theory, the Marxism of the Frankfurt School, 387 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.440 people like oswohand contempt for that. You know, they were like, 388 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:15.359 this is degenerate garbage, This is this is uh, this 389 00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.839 is therapy for people who uh want to strike some 390 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:23.559 kind of protest pose, you know, but are basically imbibing uh, 391 00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:29.359 you know, the kind of alienation uh that's deliberately engineered 392 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:33.559 by by capitalist societies and saying like, oh, but this 393 00:27:33.680 --> 00:27:37.079 can be mitigated if you know, we have unrestricted access 394 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:40.759 to the sexual hedonism, or if we can you know, 395 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.960 partake of these uh material rewards, or you know, if 396 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:50.000 we can if the state becomes a kind of if 397 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:52.960 the state becomes kind of kind of ersos like aristote 398 00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:57.359 like therapeutic mechanism or or or a kind of rabbinic 399 00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:01.920 panel or or or like a like a or like 400 00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:06.640 an Aristot's like church, whereby like the declaratory judgments, that's 401 00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:11.519 not how like validate these these like contrived like postmodern identities, 402 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:17.359 you know. And I mean that's that that's anybody who's 403 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:21.839 the true communist partisan. What you know is it was 404 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.599 disgusted by this, you know. I mean, I'm not I'm 405 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:28.079 not saying Marxism is good. I'm not saying it's like 406 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:31.839 good qualities because it doesn't. But they were and they 407 00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:36.799 are serious guys. And if you understand, and we'll get 408 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.039 into this in a minute, if you understand that kind 409 00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:42.839 of like marcist Lenin is like view of the historical process, 410 00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:49.400 you know, basically basically they view like a lot of 411 00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:53.640 liberalizing tendencies to have resulted in a kind of reactionary 412 00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:56.640 ethos among people and to then their estimates that's where 413 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:00.720 nationalism comes from. Like nationalism, isn't this really organic thing? 414 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:03.799 And I'm not talking about nationalism meaning like caring about 415 00:29:03.799 --> 00:29:07.119 your race or your ethnos. I mean like nationalism in 416 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:09.839 the form of, yeah, this is the country of Poland. 417 00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:13.559 So like you know, according to this raitrary criteria, like 418 00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:17.039 whoever speaks Polish is like part of the body politic 419 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:22.920 and anybody outside of that, you know, is not. And uh, 420 00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:29.319 you know, despite the fact that you know the existence 421 00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:33.839 of this government is deleterious to you know, the kind 422 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:38.920 of organic uh, the variables that constantly like an organic 423 00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:42.440 communitarian life. You know, if we like fly the flag 424 00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:45.480 and you know, make make this language the state language. 425 00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:49.279 You know, we're we're somehow you know, guarding tradition or 426 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.839 something like. That's what they're talking about. And in their view, 427 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:57.400 it's an effort by people whose lives are totally disrupted 428 00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:02.440 by future shock based we you know, and by the 429 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:06.920 advanced and a productive processes such that you know, labor 430 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.799 is no longer a complete process that people partake of 431 00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:16.160 in order to see through you know, the creative development 432 00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.200 of of a of an object or a thing, or 433 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:25.319 a necessary activity from start to finish, you know, and 434 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:32.160 it just becomes an artifact of a mechanization, you know, 435 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:36.279 the discrete aspects of which you know, humans are still 436 00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:40.559 required or needed to perform. But I mean, you're performing 437 00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:47.200 these activities in endless repetition without any meaningful experience of 438 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.839 the totality of its fruitfulness. You know, in the company 439 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:59.200 of total strangers. You know, who's only who's only the 440 00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:01.839 only affinity between you and them is it's kind of 441 00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:06.279 accident of locale or whatever. You know, that that's what 442 00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:11.039 they're talking about. But you know, and so people like Cosbon, 443 00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:17.240 even if they didn't do things like religious observances as 444 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:21.759 particularly positive or laudable, you know, they viewed it as 445 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:26.039 a you know, an anthropological feature of the historical process, 446 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.359 you know, whose time arrives and then passes. But they 447 00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.920 but they did view you know, communitarian bonds of whatever 448 00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:35.759 they may be. You know whether they're like you know, 449 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:42.240 promised on culture or sectarian affinity or what have you. 450 00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:44.759 You know, like in the historical moment in which those 451 00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:48.519 things are relevant, they consider those things valuable, you know, 452 00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:50.799 because at the end of the day, to a Marcus 453 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:53.440 Lenin and it's like the individual doesn't matter, you know, 454 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:59.119 So whatever facilitates, like the dignity of you know, the 455 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:03.559 laboring class or classes, you know, is basically like a 456 00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:09.079 social good. Okay, so somebody like Cosbomavi, you know, seeing 457 00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:12.720 a bunch of people saying like, uh, you know, marriage 458 00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:15.880 or like pair bonding isn't important. All that matters is 459 00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:19.359 like sterile sex and you know the catharsis you get 460 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.519 from from engaging that kind of stuff, or you know, 461 00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:25.519 all that matters is you know, people being liberated from 462 00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:30.720 obligations to others or obligations to history. You know, you know, 463 00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:35.799 the highest good is being free, like you know, spill 464 00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:39.400 out wealth on yourself and and cultivate these these kinds 465 00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:45.039 of distractions that that that facilitate ledgend gratification like he 466 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:49.680 had contempt for that. And basically any orthodox Marxist does, 467 00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:53.160 you know, they're like again, they're not woke at all 468 00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:58.079 if you want to race and if you want race too, 469 00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:03.079 like it's not I'm just pointing again again too like 470 00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:07.960 Marxists don't think race is important, but they're not anti racist, 471 00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:10.240 Like there's no reason they don't think there's anything wrong 472 00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:13.319 with a bunch of immigrants like swamped like a formerly 473 00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.359 Western country, but they don't think that should be a 474 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:20.200 priority either, you know. And this idea that this idea 475 00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:25.839 that they're you know, this idea that racial identity needs 476 00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:28.440 to be like socially engineered out of existence, like they 477 00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:32.039 have no like truck with it, you know. Like Stalin 478 00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:36.000 did try to like, uh, what do you called the 479 00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:40.039 nationalities problem? That definitely tracks you know with like ethnic 480 00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:43.200 cleansing under us because the civil rights in America. But 481 00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:47.279 that's because the quote nationalities were causing problems for the 482 00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:50.880 party and for the Central Committee, you know, and if 483 00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:53.599 they weren't causing problems, like it wasn't so much a priority, 484 00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:55.200 wasn't it. 485 00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:58.319 Because the like, the the nationalities that he had a 486 00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:02.279 problem with he considered to be the aspara person nationalities 487 00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:05.599 that could possibly collude with their home countries. 488 00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.280 That was part of it. Yeah, definitely, that's part of it, definitely, 489 00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:13.320 and that's why that's one of the reasons why, uh, 490 00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.000 one of the reasons the Soviets assaulted Poland. I mean 491 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:18.960 it was it was obviously because you know, there was 492 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.079 a geostrategic imperative to be able to deploy in depth 493 00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:24.360 and things like that. But also there was like an 494 00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:29.800 active like Ruthenian minority there that Stalin was convinced we're 495 00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:32.440 gonna try and like reinforce the Ukrainians like an event 496 00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:34.800 of open war. Yeah, it was all that stuff. And 497 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:36.800 don't get me wrong. Also, like I'm not I'm not 498 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:40.079 I'm not sitting here defending the concept of like new 499 00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:47.920 Soviet man like eventually like identitarian characteristics relating to historical memory, 500 00:34:48.280 --> 00:34:51.960 like weren't we're slad for annihilation under like a communist system. 501 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:54.639 And Hoswam would have absolutely agreed with that. But my 502 00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:58.079 point is guys like Hobbam weren't sitting around saying, like, 503 00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:02.719 you know, we need to settle like African people in 504 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.679 Ireland because it's not right that it's one hundred percent Irish, 505 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:10.920 Like they view that as like it's nonsensical, you know, 506 00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:15.760 just like people like Hobsbamb when Nuremberg kicked off the proceedings. 507 00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:19.679 You know, the view from Moscow wash, why are we 508 00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:21.639 gonna why are we gonna like declared Jews? Maybe this 509 00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:24.599 like murdered population. You know, we lost twenty five million 510 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:27.199 people fighting the fascists. You know, like you're not there. 511 00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:29.639 And plus there are no Jews in the Soviet Union. 512 00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.920 You know, there's like Soviet citizens. You know, there's the 513 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.880 body politic, and there's like our ops, and there's the 514 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:38.199 most people outside of that, you know, and then there's 515 00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:42.239 and then there's like the Zionists and other like other 516 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:47.519 vanguard tendencies trying to exploit you know, grieven since the 517 00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:50.599 nationality used to undermine socialism, like that was their view 518 00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:53.840 of it, you know, and even today, like that's why 519 00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:56.519 this carries over into today, like the way the Russian 520 00:35:56.599 --> 00:36:00.840 Federation views things, like the Russians are always he's always 521 00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:05.679 gonna view their enemies as Nazis and fascists. How would 522 00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:10.119 they not? Okay, But when they talk about that, they're not. 523 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:12.360 They're not they're not saying it like the way like 524 00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:15.960 like like the way Chuck Schumer uses you're not or 525 00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:19.280 they're not saying that. You know, these people are like 526 00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:23.239 anti gay or they're or these people don't respect, you know, 527 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.239 the heerent dignity of all people. And they're not into diversity. 528 00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:29.159 That's not what they're saying at all. Like they mean 529 00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:34.400 something very specific by it, and you know that's that. 530 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:39.119 It's it's uh, it's both uh a uh it both 531 00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:42.159 alos you know, the Ancestral Memory and the Great Patriotic 532 00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.159 War as well as there's still like a lot of 533 00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:48.400 there's still a lot of like leftag alien thought like 534 00:36:48.519 --> 00:36:52.400 in Russia. You know, even somebody like Dugan, and I 535 00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:57.639 like Dugan, I I mean a lot of Russian academic 536 00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.639 culture I find kind of alien just because I'm like 537 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.199 very much an Anglophone person. And that's not I'm not 538 00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:06.079 putting shade on like the Eastern Slavic people's or something. 539 00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:09.880 But uh, I don't find it. I mean they're very 540 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:14.920 much like a different people. Okay, But even a guy 541 00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:19.960 like Dugan, there's very much like left to Gaelian strains 542 00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:23.400 of like letting his thought like and stuff that he postulates. 543 00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:27.239 And he's like very much like a I mean, he's 544 00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:31.119 he's very much a committed Christian, you know, like Eastern Christian, 545 00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:35.960 you know, that's a bit of a tangent. Forgive me 546 00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:39.360 if that was a kind of outside the scope. But 547 00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:42.360 but I mean this sust important, uh you know, not 548 00:37:42.519 --> 00:37:46.840 just to clarify what we're talking about and my my 549 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:50.639 kind of primary wheel outs this political theory, but you know, 550 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:54.440 just structuring the kind of conceptual landscape and which were 551 00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:58.599 remired just declaring anybody on the left be a Marxist 552 00:37:58.679 --> 00:38:02.159 like that, that doesn't make any sense. It's like that 553 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.719 that says that's just that's just fucking retarded as saying 554 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.559 that like Donald Trump is a fascist or like the 555 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:11.440 p there were like people who avidly like follow his 556 00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:16.559 you know, media and political career and and and support him, 557 00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:20.239 you know, are like fascists. Like it's it's just as 558 00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:24.639 ridiculous and and at odds and the reality is is 559 00:38:24.719 --> 00:38:29.119 saying that. But yeah, I'll try to I'll try to 560 00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:33.679 pick it up a little bit worse the tangents, but uh, 561 00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:41.599 it's kind of magnum opus. There's a four volume uh 562 00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:48.840 study called the Age Revolution Age Revolution seventeen eighty nine 563 00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.960 to eighteen forty eight, and the first volume dropped in 564 00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:58.159 nineteen sixty two. This is a seminal work of historicism. 565 00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:05.519 In my opinion, you can find the abridged uh, this 566 00:39:05.719 --> 00:39:08.119 version of it in a series of PDF files if 567 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:11.000 you dig around, if there, if people are really interested, 568 00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:14.559 I'll i'll, I'll throw it up on my on my 569 00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:25.280 sub stack. But you know, basically it uh the cosbomb, 570 00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:35.199 like modernity really arrived with the French Revolution, Okay, and 571 00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.199 what do he what I mean by that? And like 572 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:41.719 what he conveys in the first volume of this Age 573 00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:46.199 of Age of Revolution is that you know, the overlong 574 00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:51.159 majority of people in Europe in seventeen eighty nine, they 575 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:54.679 still they still lived like people did in the medieval period. 576 00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:58.719 You know, there was you had this kind of very 577 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:04.000 very slim I already of dedicated urbanites, you know, and 578 00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:09.559 people who were close to technology and productive processes facilitated 579 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:15.159 by technology. But almost everybody they were living, you know, 580 00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:23.360 basically as subsistence farmers or as people you know, laboring 581 00:40:23.480 --> 00:40:27.599 with the household as the local production, you know, and 582 00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.719 essentially bartering and trading on things they could make, you know, 583 00:40:32.360 --> 00:40:36.960 within the household. You know, this wasn't I think people 584 00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:42.679 this idea that you know, after like upon the ansen 585 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:45.719 of the Age of Discovery or whatever, like suddenly things 586 00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:48.440 became moderate and everybody lived in a city or like 587 00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:53.239 a town, but just things were low tech compared to today, 588 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:57.159 Like that wasn't Most people in seventeen eighty nine lived 589 00:40:57.239 --> 00:40:59.840 not much different than they did in thirteen eighty nine. Okay, 590 00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:07.400 And this is fundamentally important, And that's kind of where 591 00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:10.760 hobsbamb It's subtle, but it's very much there, and I 592 00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:13.920 consider it's a set. I consider it essential to understanding 593 00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:20.360 something of his political of something of his ontological claims 594 00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:26.599 about politics. As I said a minute ago in a 595 00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:30.159 slightly liment context, you know, when Rousseau talks about the 596 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:33.639 General Will, and I highly recommend Rousseau to anybody on 597 00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:38.840 the right. He's very important. I first read him when 598 00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:47.039 I was about sixteen, and that completely changed my perspective 599 00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:50.599 on political theory. But you know, part of it's uh, 600 00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:55.559 part of it's because things are lost in translation, particularly 601 00:41:56.960 --> 00:42:00.199 French to English. There's a lot of cot there's a 602 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:05.480 lot of subtle concepts intrinsic to the French language, particularly 603 00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:08.639 if you're talking about metaphysics or politics or anything conceptual 604 00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:14.320 that really that really doesn't translate. But the General Will, 605 00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:18.679 like Russell Again, Rousseau's not talking about some majoritarian consensus 606 00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:24.000 of like the whole body politic describing it as general. 607 00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.079 The way to understand that is to mean something bigger 608 00:42:28.199 --> 00:42:34.840 than like a discrete individual actor or actors. You've got 609 00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:37.920 to think about it as inextricably bound up to Zeitgeist, 610 00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:42.599 like as a concept. Okay, so the general will it 611 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:45.159 might only be like one hundred guys out of a 612 00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:49.800 population of like five million people, but for whatever reason 613 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:54.559 they astride to Zeitgeist. They've got like the gumption sort 614 00:42:54.599 --> 00:43:03.800 of the intelligence and politic mobile terms, and the motivation 615 00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:11.840 and the balls to see through purely historical and irrevolutionary imperatives, 616 00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:19.679 you know, in a way that has a formative effect, 617 00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:26.159 you know, either as like a reformist tendency or alternatively, 618 00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:31.039 it can be a tendency towards creative destruction and oblivion. 619 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:40.920 But basically, the general will describes this like intangible tendency 620 00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:56.159 or sensibility that animates this this cadre at in deeply 621 00:43:56.199 --> 00:44:01.559 psychological terms and animates and motivates them to realize a 622 00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:08.760 revolutionary imperative. Okay, often too, this dovetails and peculiar ways 623 00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:11.960 with whoever the leadership element is of the state as 624 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:22.039 it exists, you know, in situ okay. But that's so 625 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:26.199 Habma makes a lot of that in Age of Revolution, okay, 626 00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:30.559 because a lot of court history that is now and 627 00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:34.280 for that's the jaguin revolution. It's a combination of like 628 00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:37.320 goofy stuff. I think people filled from stuff like like 629 00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.239 like late news or something where it's like, oh, everybody 630 00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:44.199 who was living in poverty and the crushing misery of 631 00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:48.039 these slums. So there was like this uprising, like that's 632 00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:54.079 not what happened. And again, you know, the material conditions 633 00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:59.719 of seventeen eighty nine, the purely material conditions weren't radically 634 00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:06.880 than centuries past. Okay, conceptually they were totally different. And 635 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:12.239 that's that's what I mean when I point out that 636 00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:18.599 Hosbaum was a was a true left to Galien. Psychological 637 00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:25.440 variables stand in for providential ones. Okay. But people are 638 00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:29.840 familiar with the subject area in general terms understand exactly 639 00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:37.119 what I'm talking about and why that's important. The succeeding 640 00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:42.119 valume in this four volume study was was Age of Capital, 641 00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:49.840 you know, and Age of Capital I think it's kind 642 00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:55.239 of it's kind of a counterpart the Shupiter's business cycles. Okay, 643 00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:59.639 and it's interesting to me that this kind of Simpleton's 644 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:06.039 off like Keenes, even people who are pretty outside the 645 00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:11.079 mainstream and pretty far left, they still cite that kind 646 00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:13.880 of stuff. You know, I would think that Age of 647 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:18.320 Capital would be their kind of go to, you know. 648 00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:21.760 And it's highly it was. It was a highly respected, 649 00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:29.559 uh treatise because it it showcased a genuine understanding of economics, 650 00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:35.039 you know, and I I generally agree with Burnham. There's 651 00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:39.199 not a quote Marxist economics because Marxism isn't a science. 652 00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:46.039 It's not a theory of economics, you know. It's uh, 653 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:51.519 it's a series of sociological postulates and claims about the 654 00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:55.559 historical process, you know. But there's not quote Marxist economics. 655 00:46:56.960 --> 00:47:01.719 You know, like like a Marxist economist, you know, he 656 00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:08.639 arbitrarily way inputs, you know, based on his own conceptual 657 00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:17.360 biases about what, in particular concrete terms, is like driving this, 658 00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:20.719 you know, the stage of the historical process you know 659 00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:27.199 that he finds himself in or that was the you 660 00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:30.360 know at Bock in which the the data being coded 661 00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:36.960 and interpreted occurred. You know, it's uh, it begins with 662 00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:44.880 the conclusion about the human condition as it relates to 663 00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:51.199 historical and political phenomena, and then and and then and 664 00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:58.840 then seeks out variables that that can substantiate it and uh, 665 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:03.639 in part in terms you know, and there's some of 666 00:48:03.679 --> 00:48:06.880 that and a lot of Hosmon's writing, but he but again, 667 00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:10.039 he understands puer economics of such a thing that he 668 00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:15.599 said to exist better than most people, I mean, including uh. 669 00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:17.480 I don't think academics are any great shakes, but I 670 00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:23.840 mean including people who were you know, were in you know, 671 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:30.159 his his peer group as a as a as a 672 00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:35.880 political uh partisan, and as a as a political theorist, 673 00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:43.239 and you know what can and this is also is 674 00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:48.719 what explains hosmons like lifelong dedication to communism, because it's 675 00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:52.400 a total theory of history. You know, it's not something 676 00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:57.400 you take on for because you're alienated and and like 677 00:48:57.519 --> 00:48:59.880 want some protest identity. I mean, yeah, I'm sure some 678 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:02.159 people do that, but they they're not serious people and 679 00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:05.840 they're certainly not they're certainly not writing stuff, you know, 680 00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:08.079 like on a par with the Age Revolution of the 681 00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:14.280 age of capital. And Hosmon've never hid that, you know it. 682 00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:20.000 But he also one of one of Hobswe's collaborators on 683 00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:24.519 a on a lot of scholarship and a lot of 684 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:31.360 his work product was this guy Eric Forearner Foreigner was 685 00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:33.920 was known. He became like firebrand who was like constantly 686 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:38.039 bashing garbage off and you know, and and and issuing 687 00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:41.239 these these these punitive declarations about a garbage off is 688 00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:44.679 is forsaking the revolution. And he's a trader the the 689 00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:49.920 Sovietism and you know, into and of the socialist Communitian 690 00:49:50.000 --> 00:49:53.840 nations as well as the UH. It's most of the 691 00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:58.679 political parties that are you know, behind you know who 692 00:49:58.760 --> 00:50:01.880 exists in in in the capitalist world as well. Like 693 00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:04.880 Hoson ever did that. And it's not because he was 694 00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.559 worried about his public image. I mean he would defend 695 00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:11.320 Shnalin publicly. It's because if you are a true Mercus 696 00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:15.000 Leninist like he was, like the failure of the Soviet 697 00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:21.239 Union was ordained by that same process, you know, in 698 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:26.239 Hosbom's his unconditional loyalty to the Soviet Union contrary its enemies, 699 00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:31.599 that didn't entail some like slavish like uncritical view of it. 700 00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:41.719 You know, when when Kruse Chef was assailing Stalin's memory 701 00:50:43.159 --> 00:50:49.480 and you know by name, attempting to impeach the personality cult. 702 00:50:51.119 --> 00:51:02.559 You know, obviously after a after nineteen sixty, after after 703 00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:05.880 nineteen fifty four, four fifty six there, and you know 704 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:11.480 how Hosmom said to his comrades, you know, at cadre level, 705 00:51:12.559 --> 00:51:15.840 you know, we we we we need to we we 706 00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:19.440 need to take a hard look at at at Stalin's tenure. 707 00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:24.559 And you know what what what was laudable and what 708 00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:27.599 went wrong and what you know was in fact a 709 00:51:27.679 --> 00:51:33.440 kind of revolutionary tendency, because otherwise, you know, the the 710 00:51:33.480 --> 00:51:37.559 revolution won't survive. And and has I was honest too. 711 00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:40.480 Osmon obviously had a lot of respect for the Russians 712 00:51:40.599 --> 00:51:49.239 of people, but he you know, he was always he 713 00:51:49.400 --> 00:51:54.519 was a Soviet partisan, but with with with reservations, because 714 00:51:54.639 --> 00:51:58.760 he was the first to make the point, you know, uh, 715 00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:05.719 the revolutionary imperative didn't spark in the most hyper advanced 716 00:52:06.360 --> 00:52:09.760 capitalist country. It didn't happen in Germany, it didn't happen 717 00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:15.119 in the UK. It happened in Russia, where the capitalist 718 00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:19.840 class was on very tenuous ground, you know, And were 719 00:52:19.880 --> 00:52:26.119 they the opponent's revolution were really the Tsarist elements. So 720 00:52:26.119 --> 00:52:29.360 we're incredibly hard guys. They were god hearing people, they 721 00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:35.880 were patriots, but they were thrown in altered reactionaries. I 722 00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:38.719 don't mean that putatively at all, but that's what they were. 723 00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:43.639 You know, they weren't there weren't some capitalist element that 724 00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:48.840 you know, could draw upon this great power available to 725 00:52:48.920 --> 00:52:55.360 them by you know, the productive processes that can literally 726 00:52:55.480 --> 00:53:00.159 extract wealth out of the dirt. You know. That's not uh, 727 00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:03.159 that's none of the Bolsheviks were facing down and murdering, 728 00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:07.320 you know. So they they they kind of knocked down 729 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.960 a house of cards in what became the Soviet Union, 730 00:53:12.079 --> 00:53:17.280 you know. And Hoswell never lost sight of that. So yeah, 731 00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:21.559 on the one hand, you know, you must stand with 732 00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:25.119 the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is the it is 733 00:53:25.159 --> 00:53:30.000 the beating heart of the socialist community of nations and 734 00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:35.320 of the revolution, you know, but that doesn't mean that, 735 00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:42.840 you know, one must uncritically accept every feature of of 736 00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:48.039 the Soviet state. And uh, Hoswell was critical of state 737 00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:51.639 socialism from day one, like he considered it a necessary stage. 738 00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:54.960 But he wasn't. That's what the reasons I object to 739 00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:57.760 people saying, oh he was like the Stalinist, like a 740 00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:07.320 true Stalinist was uh was or is uh you know 741 00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:09.800 somebody who looks at the Soviet state as like the 742 00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:13.039 zenith of stay craft and then and and they view 743 00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:17.079 that as like a positive thing, you know, basically uh, 744 00:54:19.639 --> 00:54:25.320 you know, based basically uh basically this this this this 745 00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:31.880 mighty empire of uh you know that like leads the 746 00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:38.760 world in in in in terms of how like you know, 747 00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:42.840 the industrial proletariat is valued. You know, it's a superpower 748 00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:46.320 because of its military might and it's mastery of technics, 749 00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:49.880 including nuclear weapons and the ability to deploy into orbital 750 00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:53.480 space and things like that. You know, like these and 751 00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:56.400 these guys do exist, you know, I mean like that 752 00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:58.840 is now like Hosman was not at all one of 753 00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:08.320 those guys. Okay, to be clear, let me see, I'm 754 00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:12.360 in my outline, like I'm not uh, I'm not an 755 00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:14.320 F A G, G O T who like you know, 756 00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:18.599 I gotta stick to the outline. But I but it 757 00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:24.000 doesn't like a like a conceptual map so I know 758 00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:26.920 where we're at. They don't want to. Yeah, let's uh 759 00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:33.199 hoss problem. Well, I want to get this biographical sort 760 00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:35.320 of info out of the way to the lay foundation. 761 00:55:35.840 --> 00:55:42.320 We'll get into the substance of Hobsbaum's you know, intellectual 762 00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:45.920 canon in episode two. But I want to I want 763 00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:47.800 to get and we need to get into the dual Revolution, 764 00:55:50.559 --> 00:55:53.360 which is a it's it's a it's a political theoretical 765 00:55:53.400 --> 00:55:59.840 and a sociological postulated concept that was coined, uh that 766 00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:03.800 quite by Hosbam and now in scholarship on the French Revolution, 767 00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:07.039 it's it's just kind of taken, it's just kind of accepted. 768 00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:12.960 It's accepted as like an essential aspect of of that 769 00:56:13.840 --> 00:56:16.519 body of scholarship. But if I, but if I, that's 770 00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:19.000 going to take an hour to dive into. So let's 771 00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:22.760 let's hold off on that. And I think we're coming 772 00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:25.760 on about an hour anyway. So yeah, I think this 773 00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:31.320 would be a natural stopping point if that's acceptable, perfect. 774 00:56:31.239 --> 00:56:36.519 All right, do plugs and we'll talk about the next episode. 775 00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:45.639 Yeah. Man, I strongly advise, or I mean not advise, 776 00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:47.840 I suggest. It would make me happy if people would 777 00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:50.239 check out my substack. And it's in addition to there 778 00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.800 being like my podcast there and like some longer form 779 00:56:52.880 --> 00:57:00.559 stuff and a pretty active like chat platform that's where 780 00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:03.840 when I shout out stuff like you know events and 781 00:57:04.719 --> 00:57:08.360 inactivities were up on it. It shows up there. It's 782 00:57:08.440 --> 00:57:12.119 a real Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com. 783 00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:17.679 This Saturday, we're meeting at Rosewood Cemetery for our Halloween 784 00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:20.880 Cemetery Walk and we're gonna lay some flowers at Confederate 785 00:57:20.960 --> 00:57:26.000 Mound to like honor our forebears and their sacrifice and 786 00:57:26.199 --> 00:57:30.159 for the Orthodox guys and girls. Mercia Eliadi is buried 787 00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:33.800 at the same uh cemetery and we're gonna pay respects 788 00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:36.519 to him. And Eliatti has had a huge effect on 789 00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:44.039 impact on my intellectual development. So we're uh, it's it's 790 00:57:44.079 --> 00:57:47.559 it's gonna be a very positive day, you know, uh 791 00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:51.559 if somber. But last last year we went to Graceland 792 00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.000 Cemetery up on the North Side and it was it 793 00:57:54.119 --> 00:57:57.599 was fantastic and a lot of people showed up. But uh, 794 00:57:58.239 --> 00:58:02.599 you'll find me on social media. I meant capital r 795 00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:06.719 e A L underscore number seven hl mes seven seven 796 00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:09.840 seven and I'm there just like check the pinned uh 797 00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:14.800 like post I you can find like merge that like 798 00:58:14.920 --> 00:58:18.880 my dear friend here Kreig produces. You can find a 799 00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:23.360 links my instagram, my t gram, the my website, like 800 00:58:23.440 --> 00:58:26.960 all kinds of stuff. So just uh and if you 801 00:58:27.079 --> 00:58:29.280 if you include some of this stuff in the description, man, 802 00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:30.360 that would be a great help. 803 00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:33.840 I got it all ready to go. I just copy 804 00:58:33.920 --> 00:58:36.679 and paste from the last episode and uh put it 805 00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:40.320 right over so your merch and uh links to the 806 00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:44.000 gum Roads. So yep, that's it until the next time. 807 00:58:44.199 --> 00:58:45.199 Thank you very much, Thomas. 808 00:58:45.760 --> 00:58:46.519 Yeah, thank you, buddy. 809 00:58:48.679 --> 00:58:51.239 I want to welcome everyone back to the Pecanana Show. 810 00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:54.280 Thomas is here. We're going to go into part two 811 00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:58.679 of Eric Hobsbamb. Are you doing Thomas, I know it 812 00:58:58.760 --> 00:59:02.960 pretty well. Thanks for hosting me, of course. So what 813 00:59:03.039 --> 00:59:04.599 are we going to look into today When it comes 814 00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:05.519 to mister Hobsbam. 815 00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:14.599 I was going to expand upon his historical perspective and 816 00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:23.559 why in substance terms he opposed the schismatics, the schismatic 817 00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:26.800 tendency is and the standard bearers of those things after 818 00:59:26.920 --> 00:59:30.920 nineteen sixty eight, and people have every superficial understanding of 819 00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:36.039 Mersus Leninism and of what Sovietism was generally. You know, 820 00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:40.920 That's why I object a lot of people banning the 821 00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:48.079 phrase cultural Marxism, like there's an appropriate context to apply 822 00:59:48.199 --> 00:59:51.320 that phraseology I'm not going to say there's not, but 823 00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:55.639 generally people don't apply it in those contexts, and they 824 00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:59.000 seem to discern anything or identify anything that's at all 825 00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:06.039 like radic goal or you know, progressive and orientation, or 826 01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:10.239 that's related to the ongoing social engineering regime and like 827 01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:14.280 the paradigm that he gives rise to in like discursive terms. 828 01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:18.199 That's identify that as Marxism. I mean, that's that's grossly incorrect, 829 01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:21.159 you know. And it's not I'm not just playing word 830 01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:24.280 games or being like a pedant or something. You know. 831 01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:26.920 It's important to be clear about what we're talking about. 832 01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:30.679 Particularly we're dealing with something as kind of abstract and 833 01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:34.480 conceptual as political theory, you know, and a guy like 834 01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:37.280 Hobbs will almost a real Marxist, you know, and he 835 01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:42.360 actively disdained the standard bearers of the sorts of tendencies 836 01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:44.679 I just mentioned, you know, not because he was like 837 01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:46.840 a good guy, you're because he was correct in his 838 01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:52.599 assessment of historical phenomenon and the approximate causes of you know, 839 01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:58.119 these punctuated developments in the twentieth century. But he did 840 01:00:58.199 --> 01:01:03.599 have certain insights into history processes. You know, he's the 841 01:01:03.639 --> 01:01:06.719 one who coined the phrase the quote quote the short 842 01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:10.880 century to refer to the twentieth century. I mean, Nolty 843 01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:16.599 agreed with it. You know, the short century being the 844 01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:23.360 cycle of events that were emerged in nineteen fourteen and 845 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:27.159 that ended on November ninth, nineteen eighty nine, you know, 846 01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:34.079 contra the long century, you know of after water after 847 01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:38.960 Waterloo until nineteen fourteen, I mean after Waterloo, other than 848 01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:42.159 the Crimean War and the Franco Prussian War, both of 849 01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:44.840 which were very localized conflicts and both of which were 850 01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:51.760 brief and neither of which really had some destructive impactfulness 851 01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:54.559 at scale on the continent. One of the reasons why 852 01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:57.480 so many mercenaries from Europe fought in the war between 853 01:01:57.519 --> 01:02:03.880 the States and even you know Henry Henry Werez, the 854 01:02:04.039 --> 01:02:08.519 commandant of Andersonville, who was unceremoniously hanged. So that's a 855 01:02:08.679 --> 01:02:13.719 that's a really grim and macabre story, everything about Andersonville 856 01:02:14.119 --> 01:02:17.320 and his demise. But he was a Swiss national who 857 01:02:17.360 --> 01:02:20.920 found his way in the United States, you know, because 858 01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:23.400 that's where the action was. You know, don't get me wrong, 859 01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:26.800 Like all kinds of punctuated things were happening in Europe 860 01:02:27.719 --> 01:02:32.159 of a technological nature of a developmental nature. But like 861 01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:37.519 power political affairs weren't really happening there, you know. I mean, 862 01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:40.639 and and if you take a long view, yes, okay, 863 01:02:40.760 --> 01:02:44.000 that kind of thing is always underway. But in Warren 864 01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:48.480 peace terms, they were not punctuated crises. There were not 865 01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:56.559 you know, crisis modalities that were emerging that you know, 866 01:02:56.719 --> 01:03:01.039 generated a need for men under arms and men with 867 01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:05.159 adjacent sorts of skill sets, you know, to participate in 868 01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:11.119 in those sorts of those sorts of uh happenings. But 869 01:03:11.199 --> 01:03:14.280 in America, obviously you better believe that was underway. And 870 01:03:14.400 --> 01:03:19.039 it's some this is a tangent. I'll make it brief, 871 01:03:19.159 --> 01:03:24.639 but you know McLellan who was famously sex by Lincoln, 872 01:03:26.199 --> 01:03:29.920 you know, and he you know Lincoln, I'm paraphrasing, but 873 01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.599 you know, Lincoln family said, you know, I've got I've 874 01:03:33.639 --> 01:03:37.920 got a commanding general who refuses to assault, you know. 875 01:03:38.079 --> 01:03:43.239 And uh so his detractors and not just among not 876 01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:47.679 just among radical reformers and abolitionist but even pretty moderate 877 01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:50.400 people either band they branded him some kind of coward 878 01:03:50.480 --> 01:03:53.960 who was like afraid of being under fire or this, 879 01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:57.000 or he was some kind of like secret Copperhead. He 880 01:03:57.079 --> 01:03:59.119 was in neither of those things. He'd been on the 881 01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:01.320 ground in prime me because before the war in the 882 01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:04.800 States kicked off, other than the Indian Wars, which were 883 01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:09.519 utterly savage, but we're not. But in scope and scale, 884 01:04:09.519 --> 01:04:15.679 we're very limited, you know, other than that, like conventional 885 01:04:17.840 --> 01:04:20.760 combined ours what was then emerging combined arms, you know, 886 01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:23.760 indirect fire, like the only way you really I mean 887 01:04:23.840 --> 01:04:26.920 liaising with foreign militaries was like something that was done 888 01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:29.920 in the Western world anyway. But it's also like if 889 01:04:29.960 --> 01:04:33.480 you wanted to, you know, if you wanted to, if 890 01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:36.320 you wanted to cut your teeth in a combat zone. 891 01:04:37.199 --> 01:04:40.719 You know McClellan's generation, Well, you went to Europe, you know, 892 01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:44.000 you drilled with the Prussians, or you know, you you 893 01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:47.320 were a liaison to the French or the British. And 894 01:04:47.800 --> 01:04:50.480 McClelland saw what was happening on the ground in Crimea, 895 01:04:51.440 --> 01:04:53.360 and you saw the Master artillery and what it was 896 01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:56.760 doing to the human body, and he's like, this is horrific. 897 01:04:57.519 --> 01:05:00.119 So he's like, if we if we we started it, 898 01:05:01.239 --> 01:05:04.239 if we start if we start cavalry charging like masks, 899 01:05:04.280 --> 01:05:08.159 Confederate artillery, like this is gonna be a slaughter, and 900 01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:12.840 that's what happened, you know. But uh, this is sort 901 01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:18.360 of an aside when any event, you know, uh, to 902 01:05:18.440 --> 01:05:21.719 bring it back to where we should be at. I 903 01:05:25.159 --> 01:05:28.199 I did it right up years back of Paul Godfrey's 904 01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:31.159 talk and his paper. You know how the left won 905 01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:33.440 the Cold War? Because the Left did win the Cold War. 906 01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:40.559 The people like Hobsbaum lost the Cold War, you know, 907 01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:45.800 the standard bearers of Sovietism and of uh. I don't 908 01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:48.480 think Hosmam was a stalinist in the sense that somebody 909 01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:51.039 like Dougan kind of is, or in the way more 910 01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:52.920 and more properly. He's not a stalinist in the way 911 01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:56.960 that guys like Jackson Hinkle are. But I mean he wasn't. 912 01:05:57.199 --> 01:06:02.079 He wasn't opposed to that tendency either, you know. And 913 01:06:02.239 --> 01:06:05.719 like we got into he stated and know un certain terms, 914 01:06:06.000 --> 01:06:10.880 you know, after after the energym and border came down 915 01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:17.400 that you know, whatever happened in the Soviet Union, but 916 01:06:17.599 --> 01:06:22.840 it had the had the Communist revolution been realized, it 917 01:06:22.880 --> 01:06:24.800 would have been worth it in his opinion, you know. 918 01:06:24.840 --> 01:06:29.239 And that's so he was. He was honest about, you know, 919 01:06:31.480 --> 01:06:34.360 about that perspective. And I mean, that's the way every 920 01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:38.280 that's the way every Marcist Leninists thought, you know, and 921 01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:40.920 and such that they still exist today. I don't think 922 01:06:40.920 --> 01:06:44.199 guys like Hankle when like the kind of reconstituted American 923 01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:47.239 Communist Party, they've also got a presence on the East 924 01:06:47.320 --> 01:06:51.400 Coast these days. They're distinct from like whatever this vestigial 925 01:06:51.800 --> 01:06:53.679 Communist Party USA, which are just like a bunch of 926 01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:55.960 liberals who don't know what the fuck they're talking about. 927 01:06:56.079 --> 01:06:59.840 But kind of like the reconstituted American Communist Party, I mean, 928 01:06:59.880 --> 01:07:03.159 they believe that too, but they're kind of they're they're 929 01:07:03.199 --> 01:07:06.360 kind of like a dialectical offshoot of what was the 930 01:07:06.440 --> 01:07:10.599 Marcus Lennon's perspective. I think that they uh, I think 931 01:07:10.599 --> 01:07:13.880 they're big on guys like Emmanuel Wallerstein and like they 932 01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:18.320 they subscribed like global systems theory, which is serious stuff. 933 01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:21.719 But but they are like stylinists, like they don't you know, 934 01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:25.679 they're they tolerate religious people these days, they're not. They're 935 01:07:25.719 --> 01:07:30.079 not these like doctrinal atheists who view themselves as being 936 01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:34.000 at war with established churches and things like. They're tolerant 937 01:07:34.039 --> 01:07:37.400 to that, but they're they remain like atheistic, Like what 938 01:07:37.599 --> 01:07:41.880 was it matter if you killed twenty million people to advance, uh, 939 01:07:42.679 --> 01:07:45.679 you know the realization of true communism, Like it doesn't 940 01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:48.480 matter because well you know that that that's that's just 941 01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:52.079 creative destruction and and human if humans are just so 942 01:07:52.199 --> 01:07:55.960 much mentioned material and mentally more valuable than you know, 943 01:07:56.159 --> 01:08:01.320 animal livestock or material things that may be as they 944 01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:04.000 may be, there there's still just like so much you know, material, 945 01:08:04.719 --> 01:08:08.039 you know, and that uh, that's important to keep in mind. 946 01:08:08.079 --> 01:08:11.280 I mean, I'm not not just I'm not being you know, not, 947 01:08:11.360 --> 01:08:13.559 I'm not like moralizing here saying like and this is 948 01:08:13.639 --> 01:08:17.399 why the communists are a bunch of slavery bees. I 949 01:08:17.479 --> 01:08:21.920 think that their worldview in addition to being kind of 950 01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:27.399 laughably up to and it's there, Yeah, I believe it's 951 01:08:27.479 --> 01:08:31.359 like highly corrupt morally, But that's that's not at base. 952 01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:35.479 It's not really why people like me like object to 953 01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:39.239 their perspective, you know. But at the same time, you know, 954 01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:43.199 I uh, for some reason the kinds of people people 955 01:08:43.279 --> 01:08:45.359 looks like Chompsky all the time. And don't get me wrong, 956 01:08:45.439 --> 01:08:47.319 like I think Chomsky wrote some pretty good stuff on 957 01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:53.439 linguistics and he he he uh. He'd be pretty handily 958 01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:56.720 treated people like Fuco, who considered to be kind of 959 01:08:56.800 --> 01:09:00.600 unserious degenerates. But I mean Chompsky, Chomsky's basically like a 960 01:09:00.680 --> 01:09:03.640 moralizer and a polemicist, and I don't think he's got 961 01:09:03.760 --> 01:09:06.520 to really develop view of political theory. But I mean, 962 01:09:06.560 --> 01:09:08.520 I mean guys on the right, or at least guys 963 01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:12.119 kind of adjacent they don't have data, say Chomsky, but 964 01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:14.319 then they act like I'm some weirdo where like it's 965 01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:17.520 being like dev and I said, hobbsbamb you know, like 966 01:09:17.600 --> 01:09:20.760 Howsong was a serious historian man like unlike Chomsky, he 967 01:09:20.920 --> 01:09:24.760 like drops polemic about like you know, America is doing 968 01:09:24.920 --> 01:09:29.159 mean things but the electonomy wrong, like America is there 969 01:09:29.199 --> 01:09:32.600 to be savage. But the day Chompsky, you know, he's 970 01:09:32.840 --> 01:09:35.279 he comes off like some handwringing old woman. And I don't, 971 01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:38.840 I don't. I don't think he's a real political theorist, 972 01:09:38.960 --> 01:09:41.359 you know, like it's I don't it's not just me 973 01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:46.520 kind of guarding my own proverbial wheelhouse. I you know, 974 01:09:47.640 --> 01:09:52.279 at the level of deep analysis like Nolt and Hosbom 975 01:09:52.439 --> 01:09:56.000 and like economy political economs, like Joseph Schumpeter, the suits 976 01:09:56.039 --> 01:09:59.079 of insights they were capable of, like in the moment. 977 01:09:59.279 --> 01:10:02.760 Most people can't do that, you know. And I meet 978 01:10:02.760 --> 01:10:06.920 a lot of guys whoever this idea that you know, 979 01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:09.680 oh you're like a mathematician or like you sell insurance 980 01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:14.279 or like you're, you know, some kind of molecular biologists. 981 01:10:14.319 --> 01:10:16.680 But oh, anybody you can have a take on putical theory. 982 01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:18.680 It's like, what the fuck are you talking about? You know. 983 01:10:18.760 --> 01:10:20.840 And that's these guys that would no insight. It's not 984 01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:23.000 even made like IQ man, Like these guys are like 985 01:10:23.079 --> 01:10:26.039 way smarter than I am, you know, and but they 986 01:10:26.199 --> 01:10:28.760 they're but they're like conceptually illiterate. It's because they can't 987 01:10:29.279 --> 01:10:33.319 discern the relevant patterns and things, you know, Like it's 988 01:10:33.439 --> 01:10:35.560 it's not like an intelligence thing. Yeah I don't you can. 989 01:10:35.960 --> 01:10:38.760 I mean, I accuse of religion. Now on the right, 990 01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:42.319 on some parts of the right. I mean, if you 991 01:10:42.479 --> 01:10:46.840 mentioned IQ and you do anything to like take one 992 01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:50.800 step to say, well, you know, it really doesn't matter 993 01:10:50.880 --> 01:10:53.359 with this, they just oh, that's cope, that's cope, Bro, 994 01:10:53.920 --> 01:10:54.520 that's cope. 995 01:10:55.560 --> 01:10:58.640 Well, no, they're retards and that's like outmoded thinking. You know, 996 01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:02.159 like I was making the point like Bill Gates, I 997 01:11:02.239 --> 01:11:06.439 guarantee you has a higher IQ than Muhammad, Promo, Napoleon 998 01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:10.079 or Hitler. He's also like a total shithead. He's totally 999 01:11:10.119 --> 01:11:13.880 devoid of any creativity and in somebody's the fucking idiots, 1000 01:11:14.479 --> 01:11:18.079 and like nobody is gonna die for Bill Gates. Okay, 1001 01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:20.880 I mean it's like, okay, great, Like there's some there's 1002 01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:23.279 some Chinese guy who'd like faint. Have you ever saw 1003 01:11:23.399 --> 01:11:25.760 like a girl naked and lives with his mommy And 1004 01:11:25.880 --> 01:11:28.720 he's got an IQ of like two hundred. Okay, that's awesome. 1005 01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:31.760 If I need somebody to do like math problems nobody 1006 01:11:31.800 --> 01:11:33.720 can do, I'll hire him to do that. But I 1007 01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:36.359 don't understand why I should give a fuck, you know, 1008 01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:40.840 like it's basically, you know what IQ is, man, IQ 1009 01:11:41.159 --> 01:11:44.600 is a it's like it's it's cold or managerialism, whereby 1010 01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:48.279 it's like, look, we basically like like we need like 1011 01:11:48.399 --> 01:11:51.600 widget makers, and we need guys who manage the widget factory, 1012 01:11:51.920 --> 01:11:54.520 and we need some criteria where can identify people who 1013 01:11:54.600 --> 01:11:58.239 below a certain threshold are basically subnormal and useless. That's 1014 01:11:58.239 --> 01:12:01.640 what IQ is. It's not like you know, oh, if 1015 01:12:01.640 --> 01:12:05.239 you're like Q was this high, you know, you're you're 1016 01:12:05.279 --> 01:12:07.920 you're gonna like lead like a revolution and conquer the 1017 01:12:07.960 --> 01:12:11.600 Arabian Peninsula. Or if like your iqes like within these parameters, 1018 01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:15.079 like you're Adolf Hitler, or I mean it's fucking retarded, 1019 01:12:15.199 --> 01:12:17.760 like it doesn't and I mean for people I've been 1020 01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:20.199 meaning someone vod Measy and sort of like that, and 1021 01:12:20.279 --> 01:12:25.199 it's like you're basically taking you're basically taking, uh, this 1022 01:12:25.399 --> 01:12:28.880 kind of ridiculous sort of like bureaucrats fetish from the 1023 01:12:28.920 --> 01:12:31.800 public school system and like deciding it's like some like 1024 01:12:31.920 --> 01:12:35.119 holy criteria, like and they don't even realize that's what 1025 01:12:35.119 --> 01:12:38.840 they're doing. So but yeah, we'll get into the substance 1026 01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:41.880 of what we need to talk about today. I uh, 1027 01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:48.199 I didn't mean to uh whip off about about tangents, 1028 01:12:48.239 --> 01:12:51.439 but I made the point before you know, Hobsbam, he 1029 01:12:51.479 --> 01:12:53.800 talked a lot about the origins of nationalism, and to 1030 01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:56.159 clarify because I don't want people jumping over my shit. 1031 01:12:56.760 --> 01:13:00.680 We're not talking about believing in one's knows. We're not 1032 01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:03.279 talking about caring about your race, We're not talking about 1033 01:13:03.279 --> 01:13:05.640 any of that. We're talking about this kind of like 1034 01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:11.560 progressive modernist like political modality, like organizing modality called nationalism, 1035 01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:15.800 which is the base of liberal idea. And it basically 1036 01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:20.119 arbitrarily says, you know, kind of the classical view of sovereignty, 1037 01:13:20.640 --> 01:13:24.680 whether it invests in like a royal dynasty, or whether 1038 01:13:24.760 --> 01:13:28.720 it invests in you know, you know, men who are 1039 01:13:28.840 --> 01:13:31.439 kind of like you know, for all parate parsons, an 1040 01:13:31.439 --> 01:13:35.319 elected king by the police in lieu with that, it says, 1041 01:13:35.520 --> 01:13:39.439 like all these people in this geographic area who happen 1042 01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:43.640 to have linguistic fluency, and like we've declared the national dialect. 1043 01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:47.159 You're part of this nation now, you know, it doesn't 1044 01:13:47.239 --> 01:13:50.119 matter what religion you are, It doesn't matter where your 1045 01:13:50.199 --> 01:13:54.479 loyalties lie in terms of things that supersede you know, 1046 01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:59.039 administrative politics. This is just like the French nation, or 1047 01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:03.000 this is the polar nation. And famously Hitler said that 1048 01:14:03.159 --> 01:14:06.600 was about the biggest obstacle to Germany being able to 1049 01:14:06.640 --> 01:14:10.279 project power on the world stage. As people internalize this 1050 01:14:10.439 --> 01:14:15.479 nonsense and it became this kind of like self defeating imperative, 1051 01:14:16.479 --> 01:14:22.079 like whereby people mired in this kind of alienated circumstance 1052 01:14:22.239 --> 01:14:27.000 wrought by industrial urban modernity. They kind of like clung 1053 01:14:27.079 --> 01:14:30.520 to this idea of like a nationalist like political model. 1054 01:14:30.760 --> 01:14:33.680 And again we're not talking about real like belief and 1055 01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:37.199 what's ethnos, We're talking about a contrivance, you know, and 1056 01:14:37.319 --> 01:14:40.960 the and it's also Habswam made the point and we're 1057 01:14:41.039 --> 01:14:45.319 so made the same point. Nationalism it based as individualistic. 1058 01:14:45.479 --> 01:14:48.560 It emerged as a liberal idea and entailed the notion 1059 01:14:48.680 --> 01:14:52.119 of Okay, here's this nation based on these arbitrary criteria. 1060 01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:55.079 They generally have to do with the ability to communicate 1061 01:14:55.359 --> 01:14:59.279 and mutual intelligibility. But it's made up in the estimation 1062 01:14:59.479 --> 01:15:04.920 of people who contrived the cityology of individual citizens, and 1063 01:15:05.079 --> 01:15:09.520 every individual is recognized by the nation, you know, as 1064 01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:14.800 as some kind of like sovereign decision maker unto himself, 1065 01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:18.359 like obviously the rubber meets the road, and nobody abides 1066 01:15:18.439 --> 01:15:21.960 that who's actually in power. But that's the theory, and 1067 01:15:22.039 --> 01:15:25.520 that's kind of like the moral mythology of it. You know, 1068 01:15:27.880 --> 01:15:31.439 this is extremely at odds with the past, you know, 1069 01:15:32.319 --> 01:15:36.319 where your responsibility was to your monarch or to the 1070 01:15:36.399 --> 01:15:40.880 local lord and above him and ultimately like to you know, 1071 01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:45.119 your your faith and the representatives of your confessional heritage 1072 01:15:46.000 --> 01:15:50.600 and your rights and privileges accrued from your profession or 1073 01:15:50.720 --> 01:15:54.399 from you know, the social and collective or corporate corporative 1074 01:15:54.479 --> 01:15:57.880 groups that you belong to. You know, the whole point 1075 01:15:57.920 --> 01:16:01.319 of nationalism is it tears all that you know, these 1076 01:16:01.399 --> 01:16:05.439 kind of natural ancient communitarian bonds. No, no, no, that's 1077 01:16:05.439 --> 01:16:09.560 the illegitimate. Now you're just an individual, but you're part 1078 01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:12.439 of this body politic because you happen to speak French, 1079 01:16:12.880 --> 01:16:15.439 or you happen to speak Polish, or like, you know, 1080 01:16:16.039 --> 01:16:19.000 you happen to be somebody who speaks like High German, 1081 01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:22.119 but you live in Belgium. Like that's that's what we're 1082 01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:25.239 talking about. That's what he was talking about, you know. 1083 01:16:25.439 --> 01:16:29.960 And that's Cobsbohmb's take, which was well placed, was that 1084 01:16:30.079 --> 01:16:33.920 conservatism is just it's just like it's just like liberal individualism. 1085 01:16:34.760 --> 01:16:38.760 That's basically a kind of class war against aristocracy by 1086 01:16:38.880 --> 01:16:43.199 like a thirsty and kind of covetist like capitalist class 1087 01:16:43.800 --> 01:16:47.520 go on to like discredit everything that came before, say no, no, no, 1088 01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:51.000 all these things that are important, you know, relating to 1089 01:16:51.159 --> 01:16:54.439 national identity, Like we're the ones who are the managers 1090 01:16:54.479 --> 01:16:58.920 those things. And you know, everybody's an individual, but you 1091 01:16:59.079 --> 01:17:02.840 need us to like guard these individual rights. Like that's 1092 01:17:03.199 --> 01:17:06.680 what nationalism is in the capital end sense. It's not 1093 01:17:06.880 --> 01:17:09.640 saying I don't live in multiculturalism. It's not saying I'm 1094 01:17:09.640 --> 01:17:12.520 proud to be white. It's not saying, you know, I 1095 01:17:13.319 --> 01:17:15.199 want my country to be owners and Catholic. There has 1096 01:17:15.239 --> 01:17:17.960 nothing to do with it. Nothing. And that's one of 1097 01:17:17.960 --> 01:17:21.560 the reasons why these quote unquote nationalist governments they like 1098 01:17:21.640 --> 01:17:24.760 never lead anything, you know, and the moment they go away, 1099 01:17:26.079 --> 01:17:29.560 you know what little kind of concessions there were, the 1100 01:17:29.720 --> 01:17:33.359 kind of preserving normalcy, just like evamplites, because it's a 1101 01:17:33.760 --> 01:17:37.920 it's a house, it's a paper house, you know. And 1102 01:17:40.239 --> 01:17:44.720 Hobsbaum was very big on what he called the Dual Revolution. 1103 01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:47.159 I mean, my stay was big on it. I mean 1104 01:17:47.239 --> 01:17:52.319 he identified he identified the dual Revolution as a historical 1105 01:17:52.399 --> 01:17:56.600 phenomenon that came to shape governmental imperatives and came to 1106 01:17:56.680 --> 01:18:01.840 kind of frame everything related to do you know the 1107 01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:07.520 political sphere of activity, both you know, in theoretical capacities 1108 01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:10.399 as well as in terms of praxis and what actually developed, 1109 01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:14.079 Like what do you mean by the dual revolution specifically? 1110 01:18:14.199 --> 01:18:16.800 And as we got into before last time, and we're 1111 01:18:16.840 --> 01:18:20.439 talking about Hobbsbom's kind of like four value magnum opus, 1112 01:18:20.680 --> 01:18:22.640 you know, dealing with the age of the Age of 1113 01:18:22.720 --> 01:18:30.000 Revolution between seventeen eighty nine eighteen forty eight. House Slamp's 1114 01:18:30.039 --> 01:18:33.279 take is that, okay, you know, the jacob and Revolution 1115 01:18:33.439 --> 01:18:36.199 and all this kind of radicalism and all this all 1116 01:18:36.239 --> 01:18:39.840 this abchieval. You know, He's like that was inextricably bound 1117 01:18:40.000 --> 01:18:44.720 up with like technological and economic changes that they constituted 1118 01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:47.079 this kind of grand future shock, you know, really like 1119 01:18:47.119 --> 01:18:50.199 the first industry revolution. So is that you can't extricate 1120 01:18:50.279 --> 01:18:54.399 these things. You know that they're very Marxist len in 1121 01:18:54.439 --> 01:18:58.960 this view of it, but they're not wrong. You can't 1122 01:18:59.000 --> 01:19:02.960 really you can't really identify like what came first or 1123 01:19:03.039 --> 01:19:05.439 what was the Pride move on. It was both of 1124 01:19:05.520 --> 01:19:08.479 these things, you know, kind of like inextriguably tethered doing 1125 01:19:08.560 --> 01:19:15.199 another a combination of like dialectical process and conceptual activity 1126 01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:19.520 as well as you know, kind of the the binding 1127 01:19:19.680 --> 01:19:23.239 up of of economic imperatives with political life in a 1128 01:19:23.279 --> 01:19:30.479 way that hadn't happened before. So, you know, these Enlightenment ideas, 1129 01:19:30.680 --> 01:19:34.800 which on the one hand are kind of hollow ideological phraseology, 1130 01:19:36.119 --> 01:19:39.079 these kinds of you know, democracy like but not real 1131 01:19:39.199 --> 01:19:46.000 democracy like you know, procedural procedural democracy like nationalism and liberalism. 1132 01:19:46.880 --> 01:19:50.000 This kind of stuff gained traction because people were getting 1133 01:19:50.119 --> 01:19:53.319 crushed by these new economic modalities that nobody knew how 1134 01:19:53.359 --> 01:19:58.560 to manage, you know, and old wealth was being wiped 1135 01:19:58.600 --> 01:20:04.880 out handover fists, you know, So there was charistrotic effects 1136 01:20:04.960 --> 01:20:08.359 to this. So like people looking for remedies, you know, 1137 01:20:09.359 --> 01:20:13.039 they were uniquely susceptible to this kind of thought. But 1138 01:20:13.159 --> 01:20:16.119 they also people develop these kinds of ideas based on 1139 01:20:16.520 --> 01:20:19.479 these disruptions, you know, because they were kind of ripped 1140 01:20:19.520 --> 01:20:25.479 out of environs where they had meaningful reference points beyond 1141 01:20:25.560 --> 01:20:29.600 their own lives, you know, and uh, people's lives are 1142 01:20:29.640 --> 01:20:35.279 comparatively short then, you know. And so this this this 1143 01:20:35.439 --> 01:20:40.439 kind of taken together, this developed its own momentum. It 1144 01:20:40.520 --> 01:20:43.880 was like both a process and an animating principle as 1145 01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:49.119 well as uh, you know, like a key like framing 1146 01:20:50.880 --> 01:21:00.399 a key framing device of of of the zeitgeist, you know. Now, 1147 01:21:01.159 --> 01:21:05.760 when the French Revolution was defeated, you know, and and 1148 01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:09.680 particularly after you know, Waterloo, I mean, because Napoleon. Uh, 1149 01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:15.079 Napoleon was a lot like Cromwell and a lot like Hitler. 1150 01:21:17.720 --> 01:21:20.479 I agree with Russell Stoffley. I think Hitler was more 1151 01:21:20.560 --> 01:21:25.399 like Mohammad than he was anybody. But and Napoleon didn't 1152 01:21:25.479 --> 01:21:31.239 have that messianic uh sensibility. I'm talking in political terms, 1153 01:21:31.319 --> 01:21:37.119 not in like theological ones. But what happened in the 1154 01:21:37.439 --> 01:21:39.760 I mean, what happened in the Reign of Terror and 1155 01:21:39.800 --> 01:21:44.199 what happened in the aftermath when Napoleon literally trying to 1156 01:21:44.319 --> 01:21:49.560 conquer the continent and you know, become Emperor of Europa. 1157 01:21:52.039 --> 01:21:56.520 The view from what remained, like the royal courts in Europe, 1158 01:21:57.840 --> 01:22:00.239 and the view from kind of like the nas and 1159 01:22:01.039 --> 01:22:06.720 political managerial class was this can never ever happen again. Okay, 1160 01:22:08.479 --> 01:22:13.079 So the Congress of Vienna Metternich kind of first and 1161 01:22:13.199 --> 01:22:17.399 foremost among this type, you know, kind of like the 1162 01:22:17.479 --> 01:22:21.319 whole raison deetra of state craft became like balance of power, 1163 01:22:22.279 --> 01:22:27.439 you know. E. Michael Jones makes the point that all 1164 01:22:27.560 --> 01:22:32.840 rationalist perspectives partake in some way of like Newtonian physics, 1165 01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:35.920 you know, this kind of like perfect balance of like 1166 01:22:36.119 --> 01:22:40.079 dynamic but totally controlled motion. It's more complicated than that, 1167 01:22:40.239 --> 01:22:42.159 and Jones is its own as a very like punitive 1168 01:22:42.239 --> 01:22:43.920 view of like Newton. I don't want to get into that, 1169 01:22:45.520 --> 01:22:50.199 but he's right about what I just indicated, okay, And 1170 01:22:50.439 --> 01:22:55.279 balance of power politics, that's where it comes from, okay, 1171 01:22:56.479 --> 01:22:59.199 And that's why it's misguided when a lot of these 1172 01:22:59.279 --> 01:23:04.000 people it's kind of like the mantra of the Midwidth that, oh, 1173 01:23:04.239 --> 01:23:10.000 Churchill wasn't crazy, and Churchill wasn't totally corrupted, you know, 1174 01:23:10.159 --> 01:23:15.159 by alien interests. He was just trying to maintain the 1175 01:23:15.319 --> 01:23:19.039 balance of power and no European power can become too strong. 1176 01:23:19.359 --> 01:23:22.720 That's not at all what he was doing. And that 1177 01:23:22.880 --> 01:23:25.960 was obsolete anyway by the twentieth century. That got shot 1178 01:23:26.039 --> 01:23:30.840 to pieces in nineteen fourteen, and nobody thought that way anymore, okay. 1179 01:23:31.720 --> 01:23:33.760 And that's why the reasons why it was apocalyptic thinking 1180 01:23:33.880 --> 01:23:36.680 came about in the twentieth century, because what had been 1181 01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:42.399 the return to like rationalist normalcy that died in the 1182 01:23:42.479 --> 01:23:45.600 trenches along with millions of guys who got blown to bits. 1183 01:23:45.640 --> 01:23:48.119 It died like buried beneath like the mud and shit 1184 01:23:48.279 --> 01:23:50.880 and all of their body parts. Nobody thought that way, 1185 01:23:51.920 --> 01:23:55.039 and that's not what Churchill was doing. And even if 1186 01:23:55.079 --> 01:23:59.439 it was, that's that that be a ridiculous mission to 1187 01:23:59.520 --> 01:24:02.279 take on in nineteen thirty nine, It would make no sense. 1188 01:24:03.439 --> 01:24:09.560 But that's the uh, that's the source of this kind 1189 01:24:09.600 --> 01:24:14.399 of like reactionary stance. And Hoswam calls it reactionary equals 1190 01:24:14.439 --> 01:24:18.600 the Matrinage perspective reactionary because it's not truly conservative. It's 1191 01:24:18.680 --> 01:24:23.000 literally a reaction. It's saying, how do we deal with 1192 01:24:23.119 --> 01:24:28.279 future shock? How do we deal with the disruption of 1193 01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:33.279 this kind of like rational balancing of furies? How do 1194 01:24:33.399 --> 01:24:38.399 we restore something manageable and something that is primarily governed 1195 01:24:38.439 --> 01:24:40.800 by reason? You know, here is how we do it. 1196 01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:44.359 We do it by like managing power, you know, like 1197 01:24:44.439 --> 01:24:47.439 it's some kind of like it like it's some kind 1198 01:24:47.439 --> 01:24:50.079 of quantity of energy you know that can be like 1199 01:24:50.239 --> 01:24:53.600 redirected and or kind of purpose towards this or you know, 1200 01:24:53.600 --> 01:24:58.079 almost like an engineering problem. Okay, that's that's what is 1201 01:24:58.199 --> 01:25:02.760 meant by reactionary. Because it wasn't nobody, not Metterniche, not 1202 01:25:02.960 --> 01:25:07.960 the people in the Congress at Vienna, not not you know, 1203 01:25:08.039 --> 01:25:10.840 not the people who later opposed the eighteen forty eight revolutions. 1204 01:25:11.079 --> 01:25:13.880 Nobody was saying we're gonna go back to having you know, 1205 01:25:14.039 --> 01:25:17.880 like a king holds absolute sovereignty. Nobody was saying, we're 1206 01:25:17.920 --> 01:25:19.840 gonna go back to you know, the pope being the 1207 01:25:19.920 --> 01:25:23.439 true like Emperor of Europe is God's emissary. Nobody was 1208 01:25:23.479 --> 01:25:27.439 saying that. It wasn't even they would have like scoffed 1209 01:25:27.479 --> 01:25:30.359 at that prospect, but it wasn't even within their contemplation. 1210 01:25:31.119 --> 01:25:33.800 You know. It was a reaction, okay, and the fact 1211 01:25:33.800 --> 01:25:38.039 that it had some trappings of what came before that 1212 01:25:38.239 --> 01:25:41.680 really had more to do with an interest in stability 1213 01:25:41.800 --> 01:25:47.439 moving forward and like Enlightenment ideology, conceptual biases than it 1214 01:25:47.479 --> 01:25:50.000 did with any like, oh, we gotta guard tradition and 1215 01:25:50.039 --> 01:25:54.039 we got to guard like the organic basis of national 1216 01:25:54.159 --> 01:25:57.399 life or so this is really important. Okay. This is 1217 01:25:57.439 --> 01:26:00.399 one of the reasons I cite Hosba because conservative are 1218 01:26:00.479 --> 01:26:04.399 not traditionalists. They're not trying to like preserve like the 1219 01:26:04.640 --> 01:26:07.560 integrity of your race, if that's important to you or whatever. 1220 01:26:07.840 --> 01:26:10.279 They're not trying to that. They're not they're not trying 1221 01:26:10.319 --> 01:26:13.359 to undo modernity. They're not trying to I mean, I'm 1222 01:26:13.359 --> 01:26:15.239 not even saying that's good, but that they're not doing that. 1223 01:26:15.960 --> 01:26:19.199 You know, they're they're they're they're arch modernists. They're arch 1224 01:26:19.279 --> 01:26:23.600 modernist liberals who are trying to manage revolutionary imperatives and 1225 01:26:23.720 --> 01:26:26.319 stop them from happening. Whether they're from the left or 1226 01:26:26.319 --> 01:26:28.920 whether they're from the right, you know, no matter where 1227 01:26:28.960 --> 01:26:32.039 they come from, that is their notion. That's why conservatism 1228 01:26:32.239 --> 01:26:37.439 is bullshit, you know. And this is uh you know again, 1229 01:26:37.560 --> 01:26:40.880 that's if people, I know, not everybody wants to sit 1230 01:26:40.920 --> 01:26:45.960 around reading politable theory like I do. But it's like, okay, 1231 01:26:46.760 --> 01:26:48.800 this is why you should beat Hobsbaum just as like 1232 01:26:48.840 --> 01:26:53.079 an educated partisan, Okay, because he's right about those things, 1233 01:26:53.840 --> 01:26:58.399 like his conclusions in terms of like applied UH efforts 1234 01:26:59.359 --> 01:27:03.000 and his conclusions in terms of what's desirable are wrong, 1235 01:27:03.720 --> 01:27:09.560 but his diagnostic process isn't wrong, and his observations aren't wrong. 1236 01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:17.920 They're generally correct, you know. And again the Marxist over 1237 01:27:18.039 --> 01:27:23.760 emphasize this. But you know, the degree and the degree 1238 01:27:23.840 --> 01:27:28.920 to which suddenly production got taken out of like a 1239 01:27:28.960 --> 01:27:33.119 communitarian shop or like your household, to go from being 1240 01:27:33.199 --> 01:27:37.039 like I'm a farmer, and you know, I'm a subsistence farmer, 1241 01:27:37.239 --> 01:27:39.880 but I have enough surplus to trade with other farmers, 1242 01:27:40.720 --> 01:27:42.880 or going from being like a blacksmith where you're part 1243 01:27:42.920 --> 01:27:45.399 of some collective with like three other guys and you 1244 01:27:45.560 --> 01:27:48.520 like make stuff people need, getting ripped out of that 1245 01:27:50.079 --> 01:27:52.279 and going to work in a factory where you're literally 1246 01:27:52.399 --> 01:27:56.640 pulling a lever or like manhandling some dangerous machine for 1247 01:27:56.760 --> 01:28:01.760 ten hours a day. That's probably that's about the most 1248 01:28:01.800 --> 01:28:06.039 disrupted thing that's ever happened to people at scale, you know. 1249 01:28:06.399 --> 01:28:09.680 And it's and on top of that too, the introduction 1250 01:28:09.800 --> 01:28:14.720 of money at scale, like anything, all all indicators of 1251 01:28:14.920 --> 01:28:20.359 wealth that for forty thousand years quite literally, like people 1252 01:28:20.399 --> 01:28:22.239 were habituated to. No no, no, no no. Now you 1253 01:28:22.319 --> 01:28:25.880 get a paper certificate and it's fungible, and you can 1254 01:28:25.960 --> 01:28:28.560 find somebody who like has stuff you need, they'll accept 1255 01:28:28.600 --> 01:28:32.600 that this is this is insane. This is totally insane, 1256 01:28:33.239 --> 01:28:38.279 you know. And it took decades for people to adapt 1257 01:28:38.359 --> 01:28:41.960 to that, you know, And it really wasn't until people 1258 01:28:42.039 --> 01:28:44.760 born in the nineteen twenties and thirties were totally habituated 1259 01:28:44.800 --> 01:28:48.039 to that. But it took that long, you know. So 1260 01:28:48.199 --> 01:28:52.720 the degree to which this disrupted everything that everybody had 1261 01:28:52.760 --> 01:29:00.439 taken for granted, and you know, just created unmanageable conditions. 1262 01:29:01.960 --> 01:29:03.760 You know, I mean think about too, like trying to 1263 01:29:03.920 --> 01:29:07.760 manage economic imperatives. I'm not even talking about a planned economy. 1264 01:29:08.079 --> 01:29:10.359 I'm saying just being able to balance the proverbial like 1265 01:29:10.399 --> 01:29:15.119 a Ledger books, there's a factory that employs twenty thousand people. 1266 01:29:15.560 --> 01:29:18.079 I'm using a pencil and paper and an advocates to 1267 01:29:18.159 --> 01:29:21.439 try and figure out, like what our outlays are, like 1268 01:29:22.079 --> 01:29:25.239 what we need to produce to be profitable, like what 1269 01:29:25.399 --> 01:29:27.520 we need, how much we need to earn to like 1270 01:29:27.640 --> 01:29:32.640 stay afloat, like what debts we owe to who? At 1271 01:29:32.680 --> 01:29:34.880 some point that's going to collapse on itself and people 1272 01:29:34.880 --> 01:29:37.640 are gonna starve. And then happened over and over and 1273 01:29:37.720 --> 01:29:43.880 over again, and most punctuatedly, it happened in a great depression. 1274 01:29:45.239 --> 01:29:47.800 And it wasn't because of like bankers or whatever like 1275 01:29:47.920 --> 01:29:50.159 von Meesian's think. It was because of what I just said. 1276 01:29:50.760 --> 01:29:55.399 That could never happen now because it's been rubberized, because 1277 01:29:55.479 --> 01:29:58.520 data management. Now it's as simple as turning on a machine. 1278 01:29:59.159 --> 01:30:02.560 Now that's an incredibly corrupt people make half with that 1279 01:30:03.039 --> 01:30:06.520 wealth is wiped out owing to malfeasans in greed. But 1280 01:30:07.159 --> 01:30:09.159 there's not gonna be like the stock market is not 1281 01:30:09.239 --> 01:30:13.000 going to plummet five thousand points because of some like 1282 01:30:13.119 --> 01:30:16.560 air because of like some accounting error at scale, or 1283 01:30:16.640 --> 01:30:19.319 because of like a lack of situational awareness that has 1284 01:30:19.399 --> 01:30:23.399 like a catastrophic impact that could never happen again. Okay, 1285 01:30:24.920 --> 01:30:28.520 so when people talk about that, that's stupid. But this 1286 01:30:28.720 --> 01:30:33.680 was like an everyday reality really from like the close 1287 01:30:33.760 --> 01:30:37.279 of the eighteenth century until like like really until like 1288 01:30:37.279 --> 01:30:40.119 the nineteen seventies, you know what I mean. It's uh 1289 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:42.880 so basically people were like costing on the precipice of 1290 01:30:42.960 --> 01:30:47.079 some kind of like disaster, you know. And that's why 1291 01:30:47.159 --> 01:30:50.680 people became communists, like the man in the street, and 1292 01:30:50.760 --> 01:30:52.880 that's why guys like Ernst Tollman, who's kind of the 1293 01:30:52.960 --> 01:30:58.720 consummate like like uh like aryan German like Burger type 1294 01:30:59.079 --> 01:31:01.800 Like that's why though those guys like fact like like 1295 01:31:01.960 --> 01:31:07.239 like factory floridais being communists like communist I theology and 1296 01:31:07.399 --> 01:31:10.840 it's it's foundation and like a Jewish revolutionary spirit or 1297 01:31:11.119 --> 01:31:16.520 like sectarian antipathy or like ethnosectarian hostility like yes, that 1298 01:31:16.720 --> 01:31:22.680 at at scale of at dialectical scale and process like, yes, 1299 01:31:22.800 --> 01:31:25.159 that is where it comes from. But where the rubber 1300 01:31:25.199 --> 01:31:27.119 meets to the road. What I just said is why 1301 01:31:27.840 --> 01:31:32.760 it became this. There's there's animating imperative that swept up 1302 01:31:32.800 --> 01:31:35.760 millions and millions of people. Like that's why you know, 1303 01:31:36.000 --> 01:31:39.399 now it's a bit different. There's other reasons why. I mean, 1304 01:31:39.560 --> 01:31:41.439 it would never become a mass movement again, you know, 1305 01:31:41.560 --> 01:31:45.840 even though when I say that like Marxist Leninism or 1306 01:31:46.039 --> 01:31:49.920 like it's it's dialectically altered in variant. When I say 1307 01:31:49.920 --> 01:31:52.359 that it's like enjoyed something of resurgence, I mean like 1308 01:31:52.399 --> 01:31:55.960 in terms of like fringe elements, okay, And there's like 1309 01:31:56.000 --> 01:31:59.319 a small, very small and absolute terms like vanguard of 1310 01:31:59.399 --> 01:32:01.800 those guys who are somewhat impressive and kind of had 1311 01:32:01.840 --> 01:32:05.319 their shit together and moving forward like this century. They 1312 01:32:05.359 --> 01:32:08.119 were probably able to carve out some semi sovereign space 1313 01:32:08.159 --> 01:32:10.680 as locally, but were small and scale. But that's what 1314 01:32:10.760 --> 01:32:12.960 I mean. I don't mean that like, oh, this is resurgent, 1315 01:32:13.039 --> 01:32:17.159 and there'd be like some sort of highly scaled variant 1316 01:32:17.199 --> 01:32:22.760 of this again but one a second, but hosbo, I'm 1317 01:32:22.760 --> 01:32:27.399 also like moving on a bit. You know, all these 1318 01:32:27.520 --> 01:32:34.720 things this basic a storicism. This is kind of what 1319 01:32:35.800 --> 01:32:39.039 this is kind of what separated Hoswoon from the schismatics, 1320 01:32:39.079 --> 01:32:42.520 like initially, okay, because there were always schismatics. I mean 1321 01:32:43.560 --> 01:32:47.319 the sixty eight ers were basically the ideological descendants of Trotsky. 1322 01:32:47.760 --> 01:32:49.600 Even if a lot of them were just kind of bandwagoning, 1323 01:32:49.680 --> 01:32:52.520 I didn't realize that's what they were, you know, at 1324 01:32:52.560 --> 01:32:59.479 the cadre level of of the leadership element, that's what 1325 01:32:59.600 --> 01:33:06.880 they were about, you know, And uh, this is important, 1326 01:33:07.239 --> 01:33:15.600 and you hosbom his later his later output especially, and 1327 01:33:17.039 --> 01:33:19.439 you know, after people are about forty or fifty, they 1328 01:33:19.479 --> 01:33:24.239 don't like really radically change their viewpoint. That's what I 1329 01:33:24.319 --> 01:33:28.319 mean in a moment in condext But hosbom Uh his 1330 01:33:28.479 --> 01:33:31.880 later output in like especially in the nineteen nineties, it 1331 01:33:32.000 --> 01:33:34.600 dealt a lot with what he perceived is like cultural decadence, 1332 01:33:35.439 --> 01:33:40.640 like the kind of corruption is social democracy, the intellectual 1333 01:33:40.720 --> 01:33:43.640 and moral poverty of the new left, you know, the 1334 01:33:43.680 --> 01:33:49.319 ability of capitalism as he perceived it to resist historical 1335 01:33:49.439 --> 01:33:55.000 processes and endoor beyond. In his estimation, it's what should 1336 01:33:55.039 --> 01:33:59.159 have been. It's kind of viable, it's sort of viable 1337 01:33:59.439 --> 01:34:03.720 life as a conceptual model, so people kind of said, like, oh, 1338 01:34:03.800 --> 01:34:06.039 haw's w again this second bittered old guy after the 1339 01:34:06.119 --> 01:34:08.119 Cold War it saying No, I don't. I don't believe 1340 01:34:08.159 --> 01:34:10.680 that he always thought this, but it would have been 1341 01:34:10.720 --> 01:34:13.600 pointless to kind of bandy that like during the Cold War, 1342 01:34:13.840 --> 01:34:16.239 there was just there just wouldn't have been a context 1343 01:34:16.279 --> 01:34:19.439 and it would have gone without saying. And also even 1344 01:34:20.560 --> 01:34:23.720 much as uh like the orthodox left, you know, the 1345 01:34:23.800 --> 01:34:27.520 pro Soviet left, much as they kind of despised the schismatics, 1346 01:34:28.079 --> 01:34:30.199 I mean they they were they were literally at war 1347 01:34:30.439 --> 01:34:35.039 with America and NATO, and it's a Jason elements. They weren't. 1348 01:34:35.119 --> 01:34:37.880 They weren't gonna pick like some sectarian fight with a 1349 01:34:37.880 --> 01:34:40.199 bunch of sixty eight ers who were like voting in 1350 01:34:40.359 --> 01:34:44.840 like the sweetest Green Party. When you know there's there's 1351 01:34:44.840 --> 01:34:46.680 a good possibility at some point there's gonna be a 1352 01:34:46.760 --> 01:34:49.000 nuclear war with their ops. They're not. That was just 1353 01:34:49.159 --> 01:34:54.279 was not even within their contemplation. But in uh, in 1354 01:34:54.319 --> 01:34:57.520 the early nineties, Hosbon dropped a book that's I think 1355 01:34:57.560 --> 01:34:59.039 this might have been as I should know this. I 1356 01:34:59.079 --> 01:35:01.680 think this was his last. He wrote essays something only, 1357 01:35:01.680 --> 01:35:04.359 but I think this is his last, Like like published book. 1358 01:35:05.920 --> 01:35:08.800 It was called the Age of Extremes, The Short Century, 1359 01:35:08.960 --> 01:35:15.359 The Short Century nineteen fourteen to nineteen ninety one identify 1360 01:35:15.359 --> 01:35:17.359 at the end of the Short Century as nineteen eighty nine, 1361 01:35:17.439 --> 01:35:19.760 Hobbs what nineteen ninety one with the formal dissolution of 1362 01:35:19.800 --> 01:35:23.319 the Soviet Union, So over clarity, that's what he meant. 1363 01:35:23.520 --> 01:35:29.239 But he kind of on popular culture a lot, you know, 1364 01:35:29.319 --> 01:35:32.600 and he said, look, he's like in the sixties, popular 1365 01:35:32.640 --> 01:35:36.279 culture totally changed. He was like before that. He's like 1366 01:35:36.359 --> 01:35:38.359 the kind of pop culture icons, whether they were talking 1367 01:35:38.399 --> 01:35:42.640 about like pet Boone, or they were talking about John Wayne, 1368 01:35:42.720 --> 01:35:47.079 or whether they were talking about somebody like even even 1369 01:35:47.119 --> 01:35:52.640 somebody like Steve McQueen or or some of these guys. 1370 01:35:53.479 --> 01:35:56.880 You know, they they might have represented kind of adalized 1371 01:35:56.960 --> 01:36:00.520 vision of Americana. But he's like just and he's and 1372 01:36:00.560 --> 01:36:03.279 those very deliberate and there's something very corporate about that. 1373 01:36:03.720 --> 01:36:06.119 But at the same time, these kinds of figures and 1374 01:36:06.199 --> 01:36:09.960 these motifs, they basically mirrored the way that like people 1375 01:36:10.000 --> 01:36:12.560 had always kind of thought, you know, like simple minds 1376 01:36:12.600 --> 01:36:16.600 that maybe to some people, you know, in the nineteen sixties, 1377 01:36:19.079 --> 01:36:22.760 the kind of like rock star identity which, don't get 1378 01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:26.279 me wrong, had always you know, uh, there is a 1379 01:36:26.319 --> 01:36:28.680 lot of like old rock and blues guys would always 1380 01:36:28.720 --> 01:36:31.359 talk about selling your soul to the devil because guys 1381 01:36:31.399 --> 01:36:33.680 in that life did die young and they ended up 1382 01:36:33.720 --> 01:36:36.439 and totally fucked up circumstances. But kind of like the 1383 01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:39.960 mass murdering of this to like Bougie's and like and lanes. 1384 01:36:40.800 --> 01:36:44.439 You know, he had tonified like Janis Joppelin, Brian Jones, 1385 01:36:44.520 --> 01:36:49.319 Bob Marley, you know, and all and all this kind 1386 01:36:49.359 --> 01:36:52.920 of hippie garbage. You know, He's like, Okay, these people 1387 01:36:53.000 --> 01:36:57.279 weren't just viewed as pop culture figures. Like people decided 1388 01:36:57.399 --> 01:36:59.960 these these people stood in for like literal cultural icon. 1389 01:37:00.640 --> 01:37:01.920 You know. Thus you have like the kind of like 1390 01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:04.720 stereotypical like boomer idiot or things like the Beatles are 1391 01:37:04.760 --> 01:37:07.800 like uttering like like sacred truths or something. You know, 1392 01:37:08.000 --> 01:37:13.960 like and this idea that being old is bad. You know, 1393 01:37:14.159 --> 01:37:16.960 life is horrible after you're like twenty eight or thirty. 1394 01:37:17.920 --> 01:37:23.520 You know, uh, there's something glorious about not getting beyond 1395 01:37:23.640 --> 01:37:27.319 that stage and like dying from partying. You know. Cosmon 1396 01:37:27.439 --> 01:37:29.239 Via was like, Okay, first of all, this is a 1397 01:37:29.279 --> 01:37:32.079 way of kind of like dumbing people down. And it's 1398 01:37:32.239 --> 01:37:35.159 it's a way of kind of like capitalism artificially sustaining 1399 01:37:35.199 --> 01:37:38.600 itself by selling this kind of like lifestyle image that's 1400 01:37:38.640 --> 01:37:42.119 pretending to be radical or pretending to be like at 1401 01:37:42.239 --> 01:37:45.399 odds of what came before, and it is but not 1402 01:37:45.760 --> 01:37:49.079 in you know, the post seventeen eighty nine sense, you know. 1403 01:37:49.119 --> 01:37:51.560 And he said that like this basically, this kind of 1404 01:37:51.600 --> 01:37:55.600 passive nihilism turns any turns everybody you know basically into 1405 01:37:55.640 --> 01:38:00.039 sort of like a comatose like consumer, you know, And 1406 01:38:00.800 --> 01:38:04.000 it's kind of contempt for older people. He's like, you know, 1407 01:38:04.880 --> 01:38:07.359 if you're gonna say that like everything is shit basically 1408 01:38:07.399 --> 01:38:10.319 after not ruled by your hormones, and I don't. I 1409 01:38:10.359 --> 01:38:12.359 don't have content for young people, and I don't think 1410 01:38:12.439 --> 01:38:15.079 Osmon did either. But he's saying this kind of caricature 1411 01:38:15.079 --> 01:38:18.800 a youth that was presented, you know, by like capitalist media. 1412 01:38:19.680 --> 01:38:22.840 In his estimation, you know, he's like, basically you're saying 1413 01:38:22.960 --> 01:38:26.560 that anyone who has lived long enough, they're gonna develop 1414 01:38:26.800 --> 01:38:30.960 like an evolved in view of what of the system 1415 01:38:31.000 --> 01:38:33.920 we live under and scale they're bad or they're like 1416 01:38:34.000 --> 01:38:36.039 the police, or they're trying to tell you to do 1417 01:38:36.239 --> 01:38:38.800 things you don't want to do. So it's kind of 1418 01:38:38.840 --> 01:38:42.880 just like deliberate dumbing down under auspices of rebellion. And 1419 01:38:43.039 --> 01:38:46.359 that's insightful because that really is true. And this kind 1420 01:38:46.399 --> 01:38:50.000 of weird preaching, you know, he's like rocketbelly guys like 1421 01:38:50.159 --> 01:38:59.239 Eddie Cochrane, like Elvis, like Buddy Holly, like uh you know, 1422 01:38:59.359 --> 01:39:03.039 like like like like Richie Valens. These guys weren't trying 1423 01:39:03.039 --> 01:39:05.680 to sell people on some lifestyle. You know. They were 1424 01:39:05.760 --> 01:39:08.479 like poor. They were poor redneck guys in balance case 1425 01:39:08.520 --> 01:39:11.840 you know, you're poor, like East La Spanish guys, you know, 1426 01:39:12.119 --> 01:39:14.920 and there was a real like energy there. They had 1427 01:39:15.039 --> 01:39:17.319 kind of a dark side that was exemplified by people 1428 01:39:17.399 --> 01:39:20.880 like stark Weather. I mean unfortunately, but these guys were 1429 01:39:20.920 --> 01:39:24.119 never going out like preaching some weird sociology of people 1430 01:39:24.319 --> 01:39:27.159 that wouldn't even occurred to them because that's not what 1431 01:39:27.359 --> 01:39:30.680 musicians do. Like the fact that this became part of 1432 01:39:30.720 --> 01:39:36.319 the package in Hobswam's view, that was totally ideological. You know, 1433 01:39:36.479 --> 01:39:38.800 that was not some accident, that wasn't just people nitting 1434 01:39:38.840 --> 01:39:43.239 with the zeitgeist. It wasn't just some kind of weird 1435 01:39:43.439 --> 01:39:46.279 feedback loop owing to sort of like the integration and 1436 01:39:46.399 --> 01:39:50.840 narratives because of TV. No, this was very deliberate, you know, 1437 01:39:51.279 --> 01:39:57.199 and so in his view, in his view like basically 1438 01:39:57.279 --> 01:40:00.680 American pop culture from about nineteen sixty four sixty five 1439 01:40:01.279 --> 01:40:03.840 to like the then president, which was like nineteen ninety 1440 01:40:03.880 --> 01:40:06.159 three when he wrote this, he's like, this is basically 1441 01:40:06.239 --> 01:40:10.159 capitalist propaganda, you know. And you obviously in our view 1442 01:40:10.279 --> 01:40:13.199 it's social engineering at hobbs I baby pictually care about 1443 01:40:13.199 --> 01:40:16.720 that on its own terms. But again he opposed that 1444 01:40:16.840 --> 01:40:19.079 stuff because he's like, this is basically trying to get 1445 01:40:19.119 --> 01:40:22.640 you drunk on sex or taking drugs or like cloud chasing, 1446 01:40:23.720 --> 01:40:26.159 so that you basically never mature in like a rational 1447 01:40:26.239 --> 01:40:29.600 adult and you never contemplate like why you're in the 1448 01:40:29.640 --> 01:40:34.039 condition you're in, and you never contemplate like why there's 1449 01:40:34.119 --> 01:40:38.239 not like any economic justice in his view, you know. 1450 01:40:38.279 --> 01:40:40.439 And again it's these conclusions really have nothing to do 1451 01:40:40.600 --> 01:40:44.119 with our perspective. But the process he describes and what 1452 01:40:44.760 --> 01:40:51.239 these what this sort of like pop cultural uh product represents, 1453 01:40:51.560 --> 01:40:53.720 like he is right about that or he wasn't right 1454 01:40:53.760 --> 01:40:56.880 about that, you know, and he and he said this 1455 01:40:57.000 --> 01:41:02.199 stuff had like real he said, he said that the 1456 01:41:02.279 --> 01:41:05.840 true like he said that was truly different about this, 1457 01:41:06.720 --> 01:41:10.039 this sort of this sort of propagandas pop culture is threefold. 1458 01:41:11.039 --> 01:41:14.159 You know, he's like, first, he's like, youth was always seen, 1459 01:41:14.399 --> 01:41:16.760 even even in cultures that like revered youth are you're 1460 01:41:16.760 --> 01:41:19.319 talking about like classical Greece or the Third Reich or 1461 01:41:19.319 --> 01:41:22.000 even like going Soviet Union, it was still views like 1462 01:41:22.039 --> 01:41:25.760 a preparatory stage for adulthood in some sense. As you know, 1463 01:41:26.239 --> 01:41:28.760 youth is important. The youth are vigorous. We need them 1464 01:41:28.880 --> 01:41:31.560 to protect us, to fight our wars, to you know, 1465 01:41:31.720 --> 01:41:35.000 develop passionate ideas that they can later build upon and innovate. 1466 01:41:35.800 --> 01:41:39.720 But you know, this is important because it's a critical 1467 01:41:39.800 --> 01:41:43.479 stage for it's the final phase of full human development. 1468 01:41:44.319 --> 01:41:46.760 That that all was like done away with. It's like, no, 1469 01:41:47.000 --> 01:41:49.560 youth is some end in itself being old as shit, 1470 01:41:50.520 --> 01:41:53.640 you know, being a young being a teenager or a 1471 01:41:53.760 --> 01:41:57.920 young person, that is the zenith of life, and your 1472 01:41:58.000 --> 01:42:00.239 life is miserable after that. So you've got to try 1473 01:42:00.319 --> 01:42:02.760 and hang on to those aspects as much as you can, 1474 01:42:03.319 --> 01:42:06.399 whether it's through taking drugs or like you know, including hormones, 1475 01:42:06.800 --> 01:42:08.960 whether it's like refusing to get married so you can 1476 01:42:09.119 --> 01:42:11.720 like have sex a lot of girls. Whether it's you know, 1477 01:42:12.359 --> 01:42:17.399 refusing to behave in a responsible way, whether it's you know, 1478 01:42:17.479 --> 01:42:21.079 refusing to take on a real political perspective because that's like, oh, 1479 01:42:21.199 --> 01:42:24.920 that's like you know, that's that square stuff. This all 1480 01:42:25.319 --> 01:42:27.760 is very deliberate, and this is very This is an 1481 01:42:27.800 --> 01:42:31.600 odds basy with every human culture that ever existed. Secondly, 1482 01:42:33.439 --> 01:42:36.399 it became dominant in market economy. It's like every single 1483 01:42:36.479 --> 01:42:38.720 one of them. It's not just like in America or 1484 01:42:38.800 --> 01:42:42.159 in the UK there's this weird kind of youth obsessed 1485 01:42:42.239 --> 01:42:45.119 tendency owing to kind of the population boom at World 1486 01:42:45.119 --> 01:42:49.399 War two. No, this happened like everywhere that America like 1487 01:42:50.079 --> 01:42:52.439 was able to like plan its footprint. You know, they're 1488 01:42:52.439 --> 01:42:54.720 talking about Japan with you know India, whether you're talking 1489 01:42:54.760 --> 01:42:58.840 about you know, France, whether you're talking about you know 1490 01:42:59.560 --> 01:43:02.520 the then you know East Block formerly his Block that 1491 01:43:02.600 --> 01:43:04.800 was like opening up. But you're talking about Finland where 1492 01:43:04.800 --> 01:43:08.199 they talk about you know, Latin America. That they can't 1493 01:43:08.319 --> 01:43:15.560 just be like some spontaneous homogenization. Okay, like uh, pop 1494 01:43:15.640 --> 01:43:18.760 college doesn't just developed this kind of like homogeneous ideological 1495 01:43:18.800 --> 01:43:23.079 imperative just by complete accidents, especially like pre internet that 1496 01:43:23.199 --> 01:43:29.119 was that was laughable. And the third thing you identified 1497 01:43:29.479 --> 01:43:32.000 was that it became truly international in a way that 1498 01:43:32.159 --> 01:43:34.479 didn't really make sense. You know. He's like if you 1499 01:43:34.560 --> 01:43:37.600 take stuff like the Beatles, or if you take stuff uh, 1500 01:43:38.279 --> 01:43:40.920 you know, like some of these movies that like pop 1501 01:43:41.000 --> 01:43:44.159 so much on the production code got done away with, 1502 01:43:44.319 --> 01:43:46.119 like the graduate. A lot of times the stuff wasn't 1503 01:43:46.119 --> 01:43:49.119 even translated, like people don't even understand like what they 1504 01:43:49.159 --> 01:43:51.920 were hearing because it was you know, and it wasn't. 1505 01:43:52.000 --> 01:43:54.479 It's not there was some program where you could upload 1506 01:43:54.560 --> 01:43:59.960 subtitles to release a movie in India or China. But nevertheless, 1507 01:44:00.159 --> 01:44:04.199 there was this constant stream of mostly radio then but 1508 01:44:04.279 --> 01:44:08.840 also TV and like the richer developing world that said 1509 01:44:08.920 --> 01:44:11.279 like this is cool, this is how you should be. 1510 01:44:12.439 --> 01:44:15.079 So people kind of like ate up the visual aspect 1511 01:44:15.560 --> 01:44:20.399 and you know kind of in congress with you know, 1512 01:44:20.600 --> 01:44:24.760 the the overly ideological kind of like radio media stuff. 1513 01:44:24.760 --> 01:44:27.800 There's all model in radio for Europe of course. You know, 1514 01:44:28.000 --> 01:44:33.319 it's like this became this international kind of it became 1515 01:44:33.359 --> 01:44:41.319 this uniform, ideologically motivated international subculture without even being linguistically diverse, 1516 01:44:41.920 --> 01:44:48.239 you know, and it was, uh, it's not like it's 1517 01:44:48.279 --> 01:44:50.680 not like this was happening at gunpoint, you know, like 1518 01:44:50.760 --> 01:44:54.600 it's not like, uh, it's not like American soldiers were 1519 01:44:54.640 --> 01:44:57.600 going into like Angola and like blowing away and a 1520 01:44:57.680 --> 01:45:00.479 guy who ran like the local radio state and saying, 1521 01:45:00.479 --> 01:45:03.279 you're gonna listen to this, You're gonna play this. You know, 1522 01:45:03.520 --> 01:45:07.439 it ability to like insinuate itself kind of along with 1523 01:45:07.880 --> 01:45:10.840 you know, the the illusion of wealth. He's like, that's 1524 01:45:10.960 --> 01:45:17.319 rare in terms of trying to insinuate a social sensibility 1525 01:45:18.079 --> 01:45:20.279 within people or try to get them to develop sort 1526 01:45:20.279 --> 01:45:23.840 of like a covetist sense of self and how they 1527 01:45:23.920 --> 01:45:26.159 want their life to be. You know. He's like, that's 1528 01:45:26.199 --> 01:45:28.960 kind of the strength of capitalism. Capitalism is really, really, 1529 01:45:29.079 --> 01:45:32.119 really good. And again I don't use terms of capitalism 1530 01:45:32.199 --> 01:45:35.600 to describe what he's describing, but we're talking about Hobsbaum, 1531 01:45:35.760 --> 01:45:39.199 so I'm using his vernacular. In his view, he said, 1532 01:45:39.760 --> 01:45:43.399 other ideologies, whether you're talking about state socialism, you know, 1533 01:45:43.439 --> 01:45:46.199 whether you're talking about some kind of a you know, 1534 01:45:46.319 --> 01:45:48.560 some kind of anti modernist but at the same time, 1535 01:45:48.680 --> 01:45:54.039 like futurist fascism, nothing is as effective as this and 1536 01:45:54.159 --> 01:45:59.239 like insinuating itself globally now is a buddle of that. Obviously, 1537 01:45:59.319 --> 01:46:01.000 it's like, well, you know, if you're dealing with like 1538 01:46:01.199 --> 01:46:04.359 poor mentioned material, or you know, if the rest of 1539 01:46:04.399 --> 01:46:06.760 the world's laying in ruins and all that exists is 1540 01:46:06.800 --> 01:46:10.079 America in the Soviet Union as producers of you know, 1541 01:46:10.279 --> 01:46:14.600 mass culture, you're gonna have perverse outcomes. Yeah, that's true, 1542 01:46:15.159 --> 01:46:17.479 but that's not really what he's talking about. He's saying, like, 1543 01:46:17.560 --> 01:46:21.520 in absolute terms, you wouldn't think that this stuff would 1544 01:46:21.560 --> 01:46:23.560 have like gone what we consider it by the face 1545 01:46:23.680 --> 01:46:27.279 terms like viral, but he did. And in Hobswong's view, 1546 01:46:27.600 --> 01:46:31.680 that's what keeps capitalism alive because it's not like it's 1547 01:46:31.720 --> 01:46:34.199 not like just like great outcomes from people like yeah, 1548 01:46:34.239 --> 01:46:39.239 if you're in America, you're basically rubberized. If you're like 1549 01:46:40.079 --> 01:46:43.520 if you're rich comparatively you're middle class or amazing middle class, 1550 01:46:43.880 --> 01:46:47.600 you're basically rubberized against like true catastrophes. Now, there are 1551 01:46:47.640 --> 01:46:49.560 people in America who really struggle, and they are not 1552 01:46:49.920 --> 01:46:53.000 but they're not the majority. Hobswam is talking more in 1553 01:46:53.119 --> 01:46:56.840 terms of like planetary scale. Most people in the world. 1554 01:46:56.920 --> 01:47:00.199 They're not really there's anything to offer you for I'm 1555 01:47:00.279 --> 01:47:02.880 like what he called the capitalist system. I mean, yeah, 1556 01:47:03.119 --> 01:47:08.079 you can. You know, shortages as you may have known 1557 01:47:08.119 --> 01:47:11.760 in your lifetime have been largely mitigated. But that probably 1558 01:47:11.760 --> 01:47:14.760 would happen in any way. That doesn't explain like why 1559 01:47:15.279 --> 01:47:18.520 in like in brass Tacks terms, like white people in Africa, 1560 01:47:18.560 --> 01:47:21.760 white people in Latin America, white people in Asia have 1561 01:47:21.960 --> 01:47:25.399 just like internalized this perspective. It doesn't explain why some 1562 01:47:25.680 --> 01:47:29.640 like Jackass in Liberia like decided in nineteen ninety fives 1563 01:47:29.640 --> 01:47:32.000 he wants to be a gangster rapper like that. That 1564 01:47:32.079 --> 01:47:33.880 doesn't make any sense in terms of kind of most 1565 01:47:33.920 --> 01:47:37.199 precedented sociology. I think it makes a lot of sense 1566 01:47:38.800 --> 01:47:43.039 according to certain criteria that we're not present before that 1567 01:47:43.119 --> 01:47:45.760 are a bit outside the scope. But that's kind of 1568 01:47:45.760 --> 01:47:50.640 hobs On's point, okay. And there were not many true 1569 01:47:50.720 --> 01:47:54.079 sociologists on the left. There was Seawright. Mills wasn't really 1570 01:47:54.119 --> 01:47:57.239 a leftist. I mean he he was viewed as like 1571 01:47:57.279 --> 01:47:59.920 a progressive by like by you know, by like eyes 1572 01:48:00.039 --> 01:48:05.520 now we are standards, but he was an he was 1573 01:48:05.560 --> 01:48:07.840 more kind of like an economic sociologist who was like 1574 01:48:08.199 --> 01:48:13.399 hostled uh, like what was consideredly a cabalist perspective. He 1575 01:48:13.640 --> 01:48:17.720 but Hoswaon was a genuine you know again it's I 1576 01:48:18.720 --> 01:48:23.199 this is not an absolute signifier that in Capsulate twenty was. 1577 01:48:23.279 --> 01:48:26.239 But he was like a Stalinist of its height, and 1578 01:48:26.479 --> 01:48:29.119 very few of those guys were like real sociologists. He 1579 01:48:29.359 --> 01:48:31.960 was Christopher Lash, ironically hime in a lot of the 1580 01:48:32.039 --> 01:48:37.239 conclusions hoswa did, and his final book it was called 1581 01:48:37.399 --> 01:48:41.079 progress That true only heaven It' dropped in like nineteen 1582 01:48:41.159 --> 01:48:45.159 ninety four, so over last died now. Of course, Lash 1583 01:48:45.239 --> 01:48:47.520 had been some kind of peculiar freto Marxist in his 1584 01:48:47.640 --> 01:48:49.840 younger days, like the kind of guy who'd been on 1585 01:48:50.359 --> 01:48:53.960 a gism drawn mark. He'd been very much influenced by 1586 01:48:53.960 --> 01:48:59.520 marcusa in that school, I thought. And then Lash gradually 1587 01:48:59.640 --> 01:49:02.159 became like one more kind of conservative in his thought, 1588 01:49:02.359 --> 01:49:08.199 like literally conservative. So I'm not sure if you really count. 1589 01:49:08.279 --> 01:49:13.439 So Hoswem kind of stands not quite alone, but it's 1590 01:49:13.479 --> 01:49:18.760 a it was a very small fraternity of revolutionary Marxist 1591 01:49:18.800 --> 01:49:23.239 Leninists who who had, you know, like a sociologist that 1592 01:49:24.079 --> 01:49:27.800 that was both methodologically as well as intellectually rigorous in 1593 01:49:28.079 --> 01:49:36.159 terms of you know, in terms of output. So that's 1594 01:49:36.159 --> 01:49:39.720 another reason why UH people should take him seriously if 1595 01:49:39.760 --> 01:49:43.920 I haven't convinced the subs and other people who like 1596 01:49:44.000 --> 01:49:48.760 what we do. Hosbon did say, though, with a big 1597 01:49:48.880 --> 01:49:54.600 shortcoming of of capitalism or the capitalist perspective is he 1598 01:49:54.720 --> 01:49:58.520 says that owing to this inherently conservative tendency. Now again 1599 01:49:58.560 --> 01:50:01.479 we're talking about conservatism and post seventeen eighty nine cents. 1600 01:50:01.520 --> 01:50:04.399 We're not talking about belief and tradition. We're not talking 1601 01:50:04.439 --> 01:50:08.279 about you know, reverence for for for customs. We're not 1602 01:50:08.359 --> 01:50:11.760 talking about people want to preserve old ways or preserve Harriot. 1603 01:50:11.760 --> 01:50:14.560 We're not talking that at all. We're talking about ideological conservatism, 1604 01:50:15.319 --> 01:50:19.399 which again is U is a product of enlightenment liberalism 1605 01:50:19.439 --> 01:50:22.239 one hundred percent. Hosom says that the thing that these 1606 01:50:22.520 --> 01:50:25.479 that these capitalists ideologues are really, really, really bad at 1607 01:50:26.439 --> 01:50:29.000 is predicting the future, not putting the future like a 1608 01:50:29.079 --> 01:50:32.359 gypsy of the crystal ball, but kind of diagnosing the 1609 01:50:32.439 --> 01:50:37.479 trajectory of politics and UH an economic phenomenon. You know, 1610 01:50:37.560 --> 01:50:39.560 That's why he said that, Like he said that, like 1611 01:50:39.640 --> 01:50:43.119 people like Fukiyama are laughable, you know what they're like 1612 01:50:43.359 --> 01:50:46.960 theories of everything, like, oh, you know they'll be they'll 1613 01:50:47.000 --> 01:50:51.000 be no more armed conflict because you know, they'll be prosperity. 1614 01:50:51.199 --> 01:50:54.960 And you know, people will will naturally like reject religion 1615 01:50:55.119 --> 01:50:58.000 because they'll they'll have all these like hedonistic outlets that 1616 01:50:58.439 --> 01:51:01.680 no longer force them to sublimate. Like Hobson's like, that's ridiculous, 1617 01:51:01.720 --> 01:51:04.680 that's nonsense, you know, and he's like, basically, nobody has 1618 01:51:04.720 --> 01:51:07.800 a worst track record speaking in the nineteen nineties. He's like, 1619 01:51:07.920 --> 01:51:10.039 nobody had the worst Nobody has the worst track record 1620 01:51:10.079 --> 01:51:13.359 of the preceding forty years. So basically probably a post 1621 01:51:13.399 --> 01:51:16.039 war era in like the nineties than like, you know, 1622 01:51:16.159 --> 01:51:21.520 the capitalists. You know, He's like, they're spectacularly bad at 1623 01:51:21.600 --> 01:51:24.239 predicting what's going to happen, and that's also why they 1624 01:51:24.279 --> 01:51:27.560 got utterly blindsided by like the implosion of the Soviet Union. 1625 01:51:28.479 --> 01:51:35.039 You know. Hobbs arm reserve a particular contempt for Calvin Coolidge. 1626 01:51:35.760 --> 01:51:37.880 He did. Coolie is kind of like a Reagan figure, 1627 01:51:38.159 --> 01:51:43.520 which isn't I mean, Reagan himself like lionized the Coolidge, 1628 01:51:43.560 --> 01:51:48.359 but I think Reagan is more like Eisenhower frankly, but interestingly, 1629 01:51:48.479 --> 01:51:51.000 George Kennan had a similar contempt for Reagan. He thought 1630 01:51:51.039 --> 01:51:53.560 he was an idiots. I mean, I got love for 1631 01:51:54.680 --> 01:51:56.520 Kennan old day, but I think he had some blind 1632 01:51:56.560 --> 01:52:01.520 spots in his own right. But what what Osbom said 1633 01:52:01.640 --> 01:52:06.199 in one of his later books Coolidge in nineteen twenty eight, 1634 01:52:07.359 --> 01:52:09.359 I think it was his is like a holiday message. 1635 01:52:09.800 --> 01:52:11.800 You know, there's nothing even a great depression. They had 1636 01:52:11.880 --> 01:52:15.760 not the kind of terrors in ainety twenty nine, obviously 1637 01:52:15.800 --> 01:52:20.479 had not sit in yet, but there was there was, 1638 01:52:20.560 --> 01:52:24.199 there was an ominous air about things. So Coolidge's message, 1639 01:52:24.319 --> 01:52:26.880 like in Holiday Season ninety twenty eight was quote, the 1640 01:52:26.960 --> 01:52:30.159 country can regard the present with satisfaction and anticipate the 1641 01:52:30.239 --> 01:52:35.399 future with optimism. That's fucking meaningless. That's like saying like 1642 01:52:37.560 --> 01:52:41.079 things are great because my McDonald's lunch today, you know, 1643 01:52:41.239 --> 01:52:46.800 cheeseburgers taste good and it's Friday, and you know, I 1644 01:52:47.000 --> 01:52:51.159 like pussy like. It's I think a crancer version of 1645 01:52:51.199 --> 01:52:56.359 what Coolidge dropped. Okay, I mean that's that's like almost Clintonian, 1646 01:52:56.520 --> 01:53:06.079 and it's superficial, supervisionally moronic, you know, uh essence. You know, 1647 01:53:08.760 --> 01:53:14.760 so like That's why Hobswom says that like capitalism, it's 1648 01:53:14.880 --> 01:53:19.840 got a permanent alibi for its failures because it creates 1649 01:53:19.880 --> 01:53:23.640 this climate. It basically just this dumb down climate of 1650 01:53:23.840 --> 01:53:28.680 cloud chasers and people thirsty and desperate for youth and 1651 01:53:28.880 --> 01:53:32.760 the kind of pleasures that supposedly attend youth. And they're 1652 01:53:32.840 --> 01:53:35.880 told that the experts. And you're always supposed to trust experts, 1653 01:53:35.960 --> 01:53:38.600 you know, like no Ball's Wall says, we trust doctors. 1654 01:53:39.119 --> 01:53:41.800 You're always supposed to trust the experts, whether they're an economists, 1655 01:53:41.840 --> 01:53:45.479 whether they're you know, some Pentagon whiz kid. I'm beating 1656 01:53:45.520 --> 01:53:49.119 myself with that phraseology, I realize, or whether they're you know, 1657 01:53:49.199 --> 01:53:53.720 some medical doctor like doctor Fauci. And the experts always say, 1658 01:53:54.439 --> 01:53:57.000 you know something in the same thing as what Coolidge said, 1659 01:53:57.520 --> 01:54:00.640 there's just nothing but progress ahead. There's nothing press spirity head. 1660 01:54:01.119 --> 01:54:05.880 So oh, when there's natural when there's natural hiccups so 1661 01:54:06.079 --> 01:54:10.239 to speak, you know, in markets, or when there's problems, 1662 01:54:11.479 --> 01:54:15.600 or when a combination of malfeasance and badly coded inputs 1663 01:54:15.680 --> 01:54:17.479 lead to something like a two thousand and eight crisis 1664 01:54:17.880 --> 01:54:20.319 where billions of dollars are wiped out, Like oh, the 1665 01:54:20.439 --> 01:54:23.960 alibi the capitalists, and who in a hoplit view is like, oh, 1666 01:54:24.039 --> 01:54:26.600 this was an unforeseen crisis, almost like a terrorist attack, 1667 01:54:27.000 --> 01:54:28.920 you know, but darn it, like we got the gumption 1668 01:54:29.119 --> 01:54:32.079 to get through it. And these things just can't be predicted. 1669 01:54:32.399 --> 01:54:34.359 You know. It's a hosba on this nonsense. This is 1670 01:54:34.439 --> 01:54:39.600 absolutely foreseeable, you know, Like, granted, there's always something of 1671 01:54:39.840 --> 01:54:45.720 a there's always something of a mystics belief in augury 1672 01:54:46.279 --> 01:54:49.359 to Marxist Lenin is, it's like dressed up as like, oh, no, 1673 01:54:49.520 --> 01:54:53.720 we're just diagnosing, you know, through a scientific method, the 1674 01:54:53.760 --> 01:54:57.880 world historical process. But they do they are right when 1675 01:54:57.920 --> 01:55:00.880 they say, like, no, history does not peat itself. That's 1676 01:55:00.920 --> 01:55:05.399 something morons say. But there are patterns too advance, particularly 1677 01:55:05.520 --> 01:55:08.079 crises of like an economic or military nature, and this 1678 01:55:08.239 --> 01:55:11.039 idea like we're just being blindsided because this this can't 1679 01:55:11.039 --> 01:55:14.279 be predicted, you know. Like that he's right about that, 1680 01:55:14.439 --> 01:55:17.640 and that that is the ongoing alibi of capitalism. Again, 1681 01:55:17.680 --> 01:55:23.960 this is his phraseology he calls capitalism. I think I'm 1682 01:55:23.960 --> 01:55:25.159 want to take part three in it's some of a 1683 01:55:25.199 --> 01:55:27.319 different direction, and I think we're coming up in the hour, 1684 01:55:27.520 --> 01:55:31.319 so I'm gonna cease if that's okay, because if I, 1685 01:55:31.399 --> 01:55:34.439 if I start in on what I want to start 1686 01:55:34.479 --> 01:55:37.119 in on it, we're just gonna have to abrogate it. 1687 01:55:37.199 --> 01:55:38.000 And I don't want to do that. 1688 01:55:39.279 --> 01:55:41.720 No problem at all, No problem at all. And getting 1689 01:55:41.720 --> 01:55:44.880 ready for a trip and everything. So yeah, yeah, you 1690 01:55:44.920 --> 01:55:48.039 don't want to don't want to keep you here forever. Yeah, 1691 01:55:48.119 --> 01:55:49.359 two plugs, we'll get out of here. 1692 01:55:50.079 --> 01:55:52.159 Yeah. No, my my, my good buddy. I don't want 1693 01:55:52.159 --> 01:55:54.239 to name check him because he's a very private person. 1694 01:55:54.399 --> 01:55:57.680 But like my homie and my erstwhile, like tech Frog, 1695 01:55:57.920 --> 01:56:00.920 who maintains my website, it's back up and running time 1696 01:56:00.960 --> 01:56:04.039 at seven seven seven dot com number seven h seven 1697 01:56:04.079 --> 01:56:06.800 seven seven dot com. It's up to date, it's current. 1698 01:56:07.399 --> 01:56:09.600 You can find the archives of everything I do, and 1699 01:56:09.760 --> 01:56:12.800 like the alerts automatically kick on, Like when this gets uploaded, 1700 01:56:12.840 --> 01:56:16.279 it'll automatically pop up. So it's current. I know it 1701 01:56:16.399 --> 01:56:19.640 was down for a few days. I'm gonna retool some stuff, 1702 01:56:19.880 --> 01:56:22.000 or rather my guy is gonna retool it. I've no 1703 01:56:22.039 --> 01:56:23.479 idea how to do that, but there's some things I 1704 01:56:23.560 --> 01:56:25.960 want to change. I'm not gonna I can't do that 1705 01:56:26.079 --> 01:56:28.479 until I get back from this trip. I'm going to 1706 01:56:28.600 --> 01:56:32.840 Portland tomorrow tomorrow being Halloween, a happy Halloween. I'll be 1707 01:56:33.000 --> 01:56:36.479 back on November seventh. I'm gonna need a few days 1708 01:56:36.479 --> 01:56:39.239 to recover, so realistically, it's probably gonna be like November 1709 01:56:39.319 --> 01:56:42.359 tenth before, like I'm I'll be, I'll be streaming and 1710 01:56:42.359 --> 01:56:45.920 stuff from the road. But I this stuff's not gonna 1711 01:56:45.920 --> 01:56:49.439 get done other than that, so there's good. It's gonna 1712 01:56:49.439 --> 01:56:51.840 be about three weeks before a new pot of as 1713 01:56:51.840 --> 01:56:55.920 ode is is is uploaded. But speaking of the pod, 1714 01:56:56.199 --> 01:56:59.119 you can and I'm gonna retool the website around mid 1715 01:56:59.239 --> 01:57:02.279 month of so they'll it'll be a lot easier to 1716 01:57:02.399 --> 01:57:04.840 use and navigate. They'll be I want that to be 1717 01:57:04.920 --> 01:57:08.399 like an archival library where everybody can find everything for free, 1718 01:57:08.560 --> 01:57:12.960 of course, and that's that. But you can find the 1719 01:57:13.039 --> 01:57:16.640 pod at real Thomas seven seven seven at subsec dot com. 1720 01:57:16.920 --> 01:57:19.960 It's the mind Phaser podcast. We've also got a pretty 1721 01:57:20.000 --> 01:57:24.159 active forum. There's also like there's a combination like short 1722 01:57:24.199 --> 01:57:27.760 and medium forum stuff, and that's the best way to 1723 01:57:27.840 --> 01:57:30.319 keep up with me, Like hit me up there or 1724 01:57:30.439 --> 01:57:33.479 hit me up on t Gram. I got a t 1725 01:57:33.640 --> 01:57:39.279 gram channel. I don't fuck with dms on Twitter and stuff. 1726 01:57:39.319 --> 01:57:42.000 I had too many bad experiences and I I cannot 1727 01:57:42.079 --> 01:57:45.239 keep up with like capitals and DM systems. But I'm 1728 01:57:45.279 --> 01:57:48.560 on social media at Capital r e a l underscore 1729 01:57:49.920 --> 01:57:52.880 number seven him as seven seven seven on Instagram, on 1730 01:57:53.000 --> 01:57:55.640 t Gram, I got a merse shop and yeah, man, 1731 01:57:55.640 --> 01:57:57.720 if you plug like the merse shop and the description, 1732 01:57:57.840 --> 01:57:59.560 that would be tremendous. I'd appreciate it. 1733 01:57:59.640 --> 01:58:03.920 Bringlind absolutely, it's all set up and just copy and 1734 01:58:03.960 --> 01:58:08.960 paste it over safe travels man. Thank you. Yeah, an Ayboddy, 1735 01:58:11.439 --> 01:58:14.119 I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekanana Show. 1736 01:58:15.039 --> 01:58:18.479 Thomas seven seven seven is back end. Do you think 1737 01:58:18.560 --> 01:58:20.800 this will be the last Hobbs Bomb episode or do 1738 01:58:20.840 --> 01:58:21.880 you think there's another one in. 1739 01:58:21.960 --> 01:58:25.000 This I mean, it's up to you because it's I mean, 1740 01:58:25.039 --> 01:58:27.119 it's your platform and we can go as long as 1741 01:58:27.159 --> 01:58:29.479 you want on it. I think that I think three 1742 01:58:29.560 --> 01:58:36.000 part series are are a good it's sort of I 1743 01:58:36.039 --> 01:58:38.840 think it's a good model to this kind of content. 1744 01:58:39.840 --> 01:58:42.199 But I'll go as long as you want on whatever topic. 1745 01:58:44.199 --> 01:58:47.159 I I was basically going to conclude what I have 1746 01:58:47.199 --> 01:58:49.600 to say on the subject today, but we. 1747 01:58:50.119 --> 01:58:51.960 Let's do it that way and then it gives us 1748 01:58:52.000 --> 01:58:53.079 a chance to start something new. 1749 01:58:53.880 --> 01:58:59.359 Yeah, indeed, yeah, no before if that's informant, why I 1750 01:58:59.359 --> 01:59:01.560 don't if you want were today? So I started repeating 1751 01:59:01.600 --> 01:59:07.000 myself for whatever, please advise me of that. And we're 1752 01:59:07.000 --> 01:59:10.159 hopping around it. But in terms of the timeline, and 1753 01:59:10.439 --> 01:59:12.720 but I think people have been okay with following it. 1754 01:59:15.760 --> 01:59:20.479 The what's important to me, especially in terms of at 1755 01:59:20.560 --> 01:59:24.159 least what I the kind of real value I find 1756 01:59:24.199 --> 01:59:28.319 in Hobbsball. I mean, obviously it's his twentieth century historiography, 1757 01:59:28.760 --> 01:59:31.680 but especially World War One because it's so ill understood 1758 01:59:32.560 --> 01:59:36.680 and it's such a critical event, you know, Like I 1759 01:59:37.479 --> 01:59:41.079 this is something of a tangent like the other week. 1760 01:59:41.399 --> 01:59:43.479 I'm not gonna name names because I don't have people 1761 01:59:43.520 --> 01:59:45.800 to think I'm being mean or I'm not even trying 1762 01:59:45.840 --> 01:59:48.920 to like suggest something humitive. But I've done this panel 1763 01:59:48.960 --> 01:59:52.680 with if you guys, and I was talking about how people, 1764 01:59:52.880 --> 01:59:56.840 especially in America, but also basically like across anglophone countries 1765 01:59:57.000 --> 02:00:00.239 and like their academic culture and stuff, they have this 1766 02:00:00.359 --> 02:00:04.960 idea they reject historicism of the continental type, but they 1767 02:00:05.039 --> 02:00:08.119 fall back in this kind of like midwid idea of oh, 1768 02:00:08.319 --> 02:00:12.319 history repeats itself or alternatively they like a show that, 1769 02:00:13.399 --> 02:00:15.640 but then they claim that you know, well there's not 1770 02:00:15.760 --> 02:00:18.680 really press it into extrapolate, so you can't make a 1771 02:00:18.800 --> 02:00:22.479 search an xyz. So like I was making the point 1772 02:00:22.520 --> 02:00:25.560 of the twentieth century, basically, there's nothing you can glean 1773 02:00:25.640 --> 02:00:28.640 from that moving forward ether in terms of the strategic 1774 02:00:28.800 --> 02:00:31.800 landscape or power political development. And this guy's like, well 1775 02:00:31.840 --> 02:00:34.880 you can't say that. I'm like, actually, I can you 1776 02:00:35.159 --> 02:00:37.399 tell me World War one is gonna happen again? That 1777 02:00:37.640 --> 02:00:41.039 never ever happens, you know, like that's that's the equipment 1778 02:00:41.119 --> 02:00:44.479 of like a meteor strike, you know. I mean so, 1779 02:00:46.119 --> 02:00:50.760 but this side Hobsbaum was interesting, especially the way he 1780 02:00:50.920 --> 02:00:54.479 characterized the Great War. I mean, obviously because he was 1781 02:00:54.880 --> 02:01:00.920 at base a doctor and near Marxist Leninists, he overstated 1782 02:01:01.079 --> 02:01:04.800 material and economic causes. But there is nuance there that 1783 02:01:05.279 --> 02:01:09.439 I think warrants attention, you know. But first, I mean 1784 02:01:09.479 --> 02:01:12.840 a little bit of background in terms of like what 1785 02:01:13.119 --> 02:01:16.279 laid the foundation for his sort of breakdown of the 1786 02:01:16.319 --> 02:01:22.520 Great War. Hasboum was very much he very much proposed 1787 02:01:22.560 --> 02:01:26.560 the theory of what's now called the general crisis. Okay, 1788 02:01:29.880 --> 02:01:32.760 with the what what what? The general crisis refers to 1789 02:01:33.640 --> 02:01:37.239 is this is this odd period in the nineteenth century 1790 02:01:39.399 --> 02:01:43.319 whereby on the one hand, there's this kind of running 1791 02:01:43.399 --> 02:01:48.680 stability in terms of power, political activity, and interstate warring. 1792 02:01:48.920 --> 02:01:54.479 You know, after Waterloo. After Waterloo, not much happened in Europe. 1793 02:01:54.760 --> 02:01:56.399 I mean, I mean a lot happened, but I mean 1794 02:01:56.439 --> 02:02:00.159 the in terms of war and peace developments. You know, 1795 02:02:00.199 --> 02:02:03.000 there was the Crimean War, which is very much restricted 1796 02:02:03.720 --> 02:02:09.560 to the theater, to the primary battle space, you know, uh, 1797 02:02:10.640 --> 02:02:16.399 which you know, very much spared the continent. And there's 1798 02:02:16.439 --> 02:02:21.000 the Franco Prussian War, which really that's kind of what 1799 02:02:21.159 --> 02:02:23.520 started to knock France out of the game as like 1800 02:02:23.640 --> 02:02:27.840 a true like bourgoning superpower in my opinion. But that also, 1801 02:02:28.439 --> 02:02:30.399 I mean that was that was kind of the the 1802 02:02:30.520 --> 02:02:34.680 most that was one of the greatest like Prussian victories 1803 02:02:34.720 --> 02:02:36.760 of all time. But that also, I mean that was 1804 02:02:36.840 --> 02:02:39.399 kind of the first blitzkrieg in some ways, you know, 1805 02:02:39.520 --> 02:02:42.920 and there there wasn't large scale civilian nutrition in it, 1806 02:02:43.520 --> 02:02:45.199 you know. But other than that, I mean, some of 1807 02:02:45.199 --> 02:02:47.239 the reasons I think, like I mentioned before, so many 1808 02:02:47.399 --> 02:02:51.079 European mercenaries like streamed into the United States so like 1809 02:02:51.840 --> 02:02:55.279 to take up to take up arms for pay for 1810 02:02:55.720 --> 02:02:57.800 you know, the Union or the Confederacy, because there just 1811 02:02:57.960 --> 02:03:00.520 wasn't there wasn't a lot going on. You know, if 1812 02:03:00.600 --> 02:03:05.000 you were if war fighting was your hustle, you know, 1813 02:03:05.159 --> 02:03:07.680 either because that's just what you like to do, you know, 1814 02:03:07.800 --> 02:03:10.000 you were an action junkie, or like that's how you 1815 02:03:10.079 --> 02:03:11.960 made a living. Like well, you've kind of had to 1816 02:03:12.000 --> 02:03:14.960 look abroad if you wanted to apply your trade, you know. 1817 02:03:15.800 --> 02:03:21.479 But there was a lot of social instability, and there 1818 02:03:21.560 --> 02:03:24.319 was a lot of there was a lot of sociological 1819 02:03:26.279 --> 02:03:30.079 there's a lot of punctuated disturbances, you know, like in 1820 02:03:30.199 --> 02:03:36.119 the social structure of the main European countries. And like 1821 02:03:36.239 --> 02:03:39.760 this started really after the Thirty Years of War. You know, 1822 02:03:40.840 --> 02:03:44.119 a huge Trevor Roper is another guy. He was very 1823 02:03:44.239 --> 02:03:47.000 very different than a Hobsball, but he basically abided this 1824 02:03:47.119 --> 02:03:50.760 as well. Okay, Like basically in the middle of the 1825 02:03:50.840 --> 02:03:55.640 seventeenth century, there's this total breakdown in politics and in 1826 02:03:55.760 --> 02:04:00.439 social order and economics and everything else, and this need 1827 02:04:00.640 --> 02:04:04.600 in you know, the Thirty Years War, you know, then 1828 02:04:04.640 --> 02:04:08.840 there's the English Civil War. Then in France what they 1829 02:04:08.920 --> 02:04:13.239 call like the Frond, which was basically like this running 1830 02:04:13.319 --> 02:04:17.039 civil unrest, you know, and in some cases just like 1831 02:04:17.239 --> 02:04:20.960 violent criminality that didn't even really have a political raizon detro. 1832 02:04:21.079 --> 02:04:23.039 It was just like guys kind of like clicking up 1833 02:04:23.520 --> 02:04:26.680 and like robbing, raping and killing people under some like 1834 02:04:26.800 --> 02:04:35.039 loose auspices of economic justice by violence, you know. The 1835 02:04:35.479 --> 02:04:39.800 the Holy Roman Empire, which uh, which was actually a 1836 02:04:39.880 --> 02:04:44.039 really important political structure. You know. I know that there's 1837 02:04:44.560 --> 02:04:47.680 a lot of Anglophone historians. They they're kind of like, 1838 02:04:47.720 --> 02:04:50.640 ohioly declared like it was a neither Holy nor Roman 1839 02:04:50.720 --> 02:04:53.560 nor an empire. It's like, okay, that's great, but it 1840 02:04:54.399 --> 02:04:59.039 the reason why like it took on that Moniker was 1841 02:05:00.000 --> 02:05:02.560 suggest that, you know, this is a transfer of sovereignty 1842 02:05:02.640 --> 02:05:05.680 to Europe central like from what was like the just 1843 02:05:05.840 --> 02:05:10.840 public on a romanum you know, I mean it does track. Okay, 1844 02:05:13.079 --> 02:05:18.439 there was revolts against the Spanish crown in Portugal, there 1845 02:05:18.600 --> 02:05:22.479 was there there were secessionist movements in Naples and Catalonia, 1846 02:05:23.199 --> 02:05:25.479 like and this also just like jumping off like at 1847 02:05:25.520 --> 02:05:29.199 the same time. You know, it wasn't coincidental that something 1848 02:05:29.359 --> 02:05:35.960 was happening, you know, and when when the dust kind 1849 02:05:36.000 --> 02:05:40.079 of settled, you had this increasing centralization at governments. Okay, 1850 02:05:41.079 --> 02:05:44.880 Like we talked about last session, there was this kind 1851 02:05:44.920 --> 02:05:47.880 of like nationalism that kind of took rude, but it 1852 02:05:47.960 --> 02:05:50.720 was like very March something Enlightenment phenomenon. Like again we 1853 02:05:50.800 --> 02:05:53.279 say like nationalism, We're not talking about some return to 1854 02:05:53.359 --> 02:05:58.039 sort of like tradition or or some adamistic tribalism. We're 1855 02:05:58.079 --> 02:06:00.000 saying that like kind of the court in these country 1856 02:06:00.199 --> 02:06:02.720 is consolidated. And it's like, okay, look, you know, like 1857 02:06:02.960 --> 02:06:06.119 within these sovereign parameters, like we are the only sovereign 1858 02:06:06.640 --> 02:06:08.399 we have the power to tax you, you and you 1859 02:06:09.279 --> 02:06:13.199 you know, the only the only legitimate men under arms 1860 02:06:13.239 --> 02:06:16.039 the ones weach are you know, stuff like that, Okay, 1861 02:06:18.359 --> 02:06:20.680 And it's kind this kind of like central bureaucracy like 1862 02:06:20.760 --> 02:06:23.600 developed to kind of prevent this chaos that have been happening. 1863 02:06:23.800 --> 02:06:26.000 And this is like one hundred and fifty year cycle 1864 02:06:26.119 --> 02:06:28.880 from like the end of like the Thirty Years War 1865 02:06:29.159 --> 02:06:31.319 and the Peace of Westphalia until like the start of 1866 02:06:31.359 --> 02:06:36.239 the nineteenth century. You know. But throughout the nineteenth century, 1867 02:06:36.359 --> 02:06:40.239 despite these this this kind of basic stability in terms 1868 02:06:40.239 --> 02:06:44.720 of like power political activity, there was this increasing tension 1869 02:06:45.279 --> 02:06:47.199 because you like a lot of these, A lot of these, 1870 02:06:47.279 --> 02:06:52.640 like you know, otherwise progressive states that its centralized, you know, 1871 02:06:52.920 --> 02:06:54.760 despite that they were they were most of them were 1872 02:06:54.800 --> 02:06:58.000 like run by absolute monarchs, or they were run by 1873 02:06:58.560 --> 02:07:03.680 a court that was essentially staffed by you know, like 1874 02:07:03.720 --> 02:07:10.439 an upper house of landed aristocrats. Okay, and obviously, you know, 1875 02:07:10.560 --> 02:07:12.880 clergy people still had a lot of cloud. You know, 1876 02:07:14.319 --> 02:07:19.640 the Roman Church couldn't assert itself in an absolute way 1877 02:07:20.359 --> 02:07:23.840 over sovereign governments anymore, but it still had great power. 1878 02:07:24.600 --> 02:07:26.920 So there's this weird disconnects. On the one hand, like 1879 02:07:27.039 --> 02:07:30.279 structurally you had the structure of the modern state like 1880 02:07:30.359 --> 02:07:33.359 as we know it today, but it was populated basically 1881 02:07:33.960 --> 02:07:39.600 by these aristocrats and and clerical types and people who 1882 02:07:39.920 --> 02:07:43.359 derived their mandate from sort of traditional modalities that were 1883 02:07:43.399 --> 02:07:47.560 ceasing to exist. Okay, I want to hosbal the big points. 1884 02:07:47.600 --> 02:07:50.039 And a lot of people don't understand this about Marxists. 1885 02:07:51.399 --> 02:07:55.279 Marxists don't look at aristocrats and the bourgeoisie is the 1886 02:07:55.399 --> 02:07:58.479 same thing. They look at them as opposing classes, which 1887 02:07:58.560 --> 02:08:04.439 they are, and the first revolution before the proletarian revolution 1888 02:08:04.560 --> 02:08:09.039 can happen, like basically the bourgeoisie have to annihilate the aristocracy, 1889 02:08:09.800 --> 02:08:13.039 and when that doesn't or can't happen, there's this kind 1890 02:08:13.039 --> 02:08:17.479 of stagnation and like the Marxist Leninist worldview, like nothing 1891 02:08:17.560 --> 02:08:21.680 is progressing, you know, there's not like innovation. Government kind 1892 02:08:21.720 --> 02:08:24.159 of it has this monopoly on power off there's something 1893 02:08:24.239 --> 02:08:27.199 dynamic about it. And this is critically important because I've 1894 02:08:27.239 --> 02:08:31.199 heard people talk about and especially because I understand why 1895 02:08:31.199 --> 02:08:35.560 people develop that impression based on the rhetoric as well 1896 02:08:35.600 --> 02:08:40.279 as the experience historically of the Russian Revolution. They view 1897 02:08:40.399 --> 02:08:43.640 like Bolsheviks's guys who like want to kill kings or 1898 02:08:43.640 --> 02:08:46.600 who like view like them as guys who just want 1899 02:08:46.640 --> 02:08:48.920 to burn down the churches because they view the church 1900 02:08:49.000 --> 02:08:51.119 as the repressor. That's not the way they look at it. Yeah, 1901 02:08:51.119 --> 02:08:53.800 they want to do those things, but their whole notion 1902 02:08:54.079 --> 02:08:58.720 is that the bourgeoisie is a revolutionary element too. It's 1903 02:08:58.760 --> 02:09:01.239 got to annihilate like the thrown an altar and like 1904 02:09:01.399 --> 02:09:05.720 the European court as it's existed for you know, millennia, 1905 02:09:05.840 --> 02:09:09.439 and it's now consolidated under the trap things of the 1906 02:09:09.520 --> 02:09:12.720 modern state. And then like when the bourgeoisie is able 1907 02:09:12.760 --> 02:09:16.159 to consolidate control of this modern means of production you know, 1908 02:09:16.319 --> 02:09:20.199 that can be applied to you know, basically resolving shortages 1909 02:09:20.279 --> 02:09:23.800 and poverty. Like that's like when the proletariat rises up 1910 02:09:24.079 --> 02:09:26.560 and then like takes over those means, and that's like 1911 02:09:26.640 --> 02:09:29.640 the final revolution. Then there's like no more class, there's 1912 02:09:29.680 --> 02:09:32.800 no more cast, you know, and like life can be 1913 02:09:32.920 --> 02:09:36.640 like socially homogenized, like in circumstances of plenty, and there's 1914 02:09:36.680 --> 02:09:40.319 not material need anymore. And because there's not contradictions anymore, 1915 02:09:40.359 --> 02:09:43.800 and there's not there's not material deprivation, like there's not 1916 02:09:44.039 --> 02:09:47.359 war anymore, and like all the superstructural features that cause 1917 02:09:47.399 --> 02:09:50.439 those things, you know, like like like racial problems and 1918 02:09:50.520 --> 02:09:54.359 things like those are all like annihilated because they can 1919 02:09:54.439 --> 02:09:58.640 no longer be exploited, either deliberately by design or or 1920 02:09:58.800 --> 02:10:01.640 or just by you know, or just you're just owing 1921 02:10:01.640 --> 02:10:06.079 to intrinsic tensions that that that that caused us stillity 1922 02:10:06.159 --> 02:10:09.920 owing to the internal contradictions of of a non vorestic paradigm. 1923 02:10:10.039 --> 02:10:15.920 Like that's what they're talking about. Okay, So Hobsbaum's view 1924 02:10:16.479 --> 02:10:19.239 and Roper's view, albeit for ay different reasons and a 1925 02:10:19.279 --> 02:10:22.880 lot of like Aanglo historians, was that this phenomenon I'm 1926 02:10:22.960 --> 02:10:26.560 talking about it basically kind of it created this like 1927 02:10:26.640 --> 02:10:33.159 weird stagnation, and these tensions kept on developed this sort 1928 02:10:33.199 --> 02:10:37.199 of unsustainable momentum, and then by the time of the 1929 02:10:37.359 --> 02:10:41.520 Great War, what it essentially happened was you had this 1930 02:10:41.680 --> 02:10:46.920 kind of like hyper competitive capitalist paradigm between the major 1931 02:10:46.960 --> 02:10:53.119 European powers, but it was kind of inconsistent across national 1932 02:10:53.239 --> 02:10:57.279 frontiers and uneven. Okay, so you had the Germans that 1933 02:10:57.319 --> 02:11:00.520 were absolutely killing it, and they were eclipsed in the UK, 1934 02:11:00.760 --> 02:11:02.960 which had previously been you know kind of like the 1935 02:11:04.159 --> 02:11:06.520 like like like like the like the factory of Europe, 1936 02:11:06.600 --> 02:11:10.000 you know, and and and and British products that they 1937 02:11:10.039 --> 02:11:12.399 had been like flooding the planet and markets far and wide, 1938 02:11:12.479 --> 02:11:15.920 like that was over with. But the but the newly 1939 02:11:16.039 --> 02:11:20.239 consolidated like German state like it was cash poor, you know. 1940 02:11:20.279 --> 02:11:21.920 And then he had the French, who, like I said, 1941 02:11:21.960 --> 02:11:24.199 they'd been kind of like knocked off of their pedestal, 1942 02:11:25.439 --> 02:11:28.279 you know, by the Franco Prussian War and never really recovered, 1943 02:11:28.600 --> 02:11:32.119 you know, frankly from like Waterloo and stuff. You know. 1944 02:11:32.239 --> 02:11:34.479 So they were like realizing that like they were gonna 1945 02:11:34.680 --> 02:11:37.119 like the future basically was them being like a junior 1946 02:11:37.199 --> 02:11:40.159 partner kind of in this like German dominated continent as 1947 02:11:40.199 --> 02:11:45.279 Europe becomes a superpower. Okay. And hobbs On view is like, look, 1948 02:11:45.359 --> 02:11:49.239 with the great equalizer raises and military power, and he's right, 1949 02:11:50.239 --> 02:11:53.359 and if you don't believe that, I mean, I'll relieve this, okay. 1950 02:11:54.560 --> 02:11:58.239 Like at peak, I'm talking in the era of like 1951 02:11:59.119 --> 02:12:04.119 undeniable strategy parody, like after nineteen seventy seven, the Soviet 1952 02:12:04.279 --> 02:12:09.239 Union at peak, it it's GDP was like one fifth 1953 02:12:09.319 --> 02:12:14.560 out of the United States. Okay, its annual growth was 1954 02:12:14.600 --> 02:12:17.279 like one point two percent or like something that would 1955 02:12:17.279 --> 02:12:22.560 be like viewed as pathetic by you know, by the UH, 1956 02:12:23.399 --> 02:12:26.640 by the Buddhist Republic or by the United States, but 1957 02:12:26.840 --> 02:12:32.560 they were probably like the strongest UH military power that's 1958 02:12:32.600 --> 02:12:37.439 ever existed on this planet. Okay. So in a Hosbo 1959 02:12:37.680 --> 02:12:41.359 his view like, look, if you're being if you're if 1960 02:12:41.359 --> 02:12:44.359 you're basically being merked, like in the game of UH, 1961 02:12:44.600 --> 02:12:48.319 in the great game of of of capitalist commerce, and 1962 02:12:49.479 --> 02:12:52.840 you know, the kind of zero sum competition before European 1963 02:12:52.880 --> 02:12:58.119 integration was a reality. Your trump card is essentially that 1964 02:12:59.079 --> 02:13:03.159 you can defer your enemies on the battlefield, you know, 1965 02:13:03.720 --> 02:13:08.119 and there was a certain conveinence here because again, you know, 1966 02:13:08.199 --> 02:13:14.319 the Crimean War resolved pretty rapidly. Okay, the Franco Prussian 1967 02:13:14.359 --> 02:13:18.000 War resolved pretty rapidly. The war between the states here 1968 02:13:18.039 --> 02:13:21.119 in America was a blood bath. But that, oh, just 1969 02:13:21.239 --> 02:13:27.239 peculiar conditions. Okay, So going into World War One, the 1970 02:13:27.319 --> 02:13:30.640 combatant states like, yeah, I mean there was there's complex 1971 02:13:30.760 --> 02:13:34.800 historical factors that conspired to make it happen. But the 1972 02:13:34.880 --> 02:13:40.880 major combatants figured that, well, you know, this is going 1973 02:13:40.920 --> 02:13:46.880 to resolve pretty rapidly, you know, and the British especially 1974 02:13:47.000 --> 02:13:54.760 thought that. And you know, I this is a discussion 1975 02:13:54.840 --> 02:13:58.640 for another series, but I said during the World War 1976 02:13:58.720 --> 02:14:01.760 One series that a whole Vegg think was, I mean, 1977 02:14:01.800 --> 02:14:05.600 here's the really sympathetic figure in the Great War, and 1978 02:14:07.920 --> 02:14:11.319 that that perfect exemplifies like what Howl was talking about, 1979 02:14:11.720 --> 02:14:13.840 the kind of the dynamic between like a wholeveg the 1980 02:14:13.960 --> 02:14:19.479 conseler and and and the Kaiser. You know, Wilhelm was 1981 02:14:19.560 --> 02:14:23.199 not a good man, and he he did not have 1982 02:14:23.359 --> 02:14:27.359 good command aptitude, but even if he had, there was 1983 02:14:27.439 --> 02:14:32.920 like this bizarre kind of tango where you had you 1984 02:14:33.039 --> 02:14:35.960 had like you know, the leader of government in a Wholveg. 1985 02:14:36.319 --> 02:14:38.600 Then you had literally the Kaiser who was the king. 1986 02:14:39.680 --> 02:14:42.800 Then you had these industrialists, and both Holeveg and the 1987 02:14:42.920 --> 02:14:47.479 Kaiser they had to organize like purchasing you know, arms, munitions, 1988 02:14:49.239 --> 02:14:55.840 figuring out some way to appropriate manufacturing and means to 1989 02:14:55.960 --> 02:15:01.279 sustain battlefield demands, but also compensating these price actors or 1990 02:15:01.359 --> 02:15:04.800 like you know, their outlays and things. So it's like 1991 02:15:04.840 --> 02:15:07.439 you got kind of like three bases of sovereignty that 1992 02:15:07.520 --> 02:15:11.399 are that are basically at odds and have competing interests, 1993 02:15:12.520 --> 02:15:19.199 but they're all profiting or at least you know, surviving 1994 02:15:19.600 --> 02:15:24.239 by virtue of this war enterprise, you know, and it 1995 02:15:24.399 --> 02:15:27.840 leaves us conditions where like nobody's really in charge. And 1996 02:15:27.960 --> 02:15:31.520 like hod made that point too, you know, and that's 1997 02:15:31.560 --> 02:15:35.119 why I put him kind of head and showers above 1998 02:15:35.199 --> 02:15:37.760 most most Marxists who just say, like, oh, well, world 1999 02:15:37.760 --> 02:15:41.680 War want to happen because you know, of overproduction, you know, 2000 02:15:41.760 --> 02:15:44.159 like and that that's that's ridiculous, Like, well, WAN didn't 2001 02:15:44.279 --> 02:15:47.119 happen because there was some conspiracy of capitalists like well, 2002 02:15:47.159 --> 02:15:49.399 we got to kill off, you know, our workers because 2003 02:15:49.399 --> 02:15:51.600 there's you know, we can't employ them, and and well, 2004 02:15:51.720 --> 02:15:53.720 you know we we don't. We don't we don't have 2005 02:15:53.800 --> 02:15:56.199 a destination for these or produced goods, so we're just 2006 02:15:56.239 --> 02:15:58.640 gonna blow them up on the battlefield. Like nobody thinks 2007 02:15:58.720 --> 02:16:01.279 that way, and that's all and not why wars happened. 2008 02:16:02.520 --> 02:16:04.920 And if that was the case, like if that was true, 2009 02:16:05.840 --> 02:16:09.199 like basically anytime there was a major recession, like the 2010 02:16:09.279 --> 02:16:12.439 president would just like devise a war like that, That's 2011 02:16:12.479 --> 02:16:16.000 not how things happen, you know, like if if there's 2012 02:16:16.039 --> 02:16:19.399 a huge financial crisis next year and America and the 2013 02:16:19.560 --> 02:16:22.039 Chinese would be like, let's like let's pretend to have 2014 02:16:22.119 --> 02:16:24.239 a war and sink each other's navies, Like well, what 2015 02:16:24.239 --> 02:16:26.279 would that accomplish? You know? That's I mean, I'm being 2016 02:16:26.359 --> 02:16:29.520 up too deliberately, But this is an important point because 2017 02:16:29.520 --> 02:16:32.760 they're refrain even a guys should know better, like well, 2018 02:16:32.840 --> 02:16:35.719 war's about big business or it's about money. It's like, no, 2019 02:16:35.840 --> 02:16:38.319 it's not, man Like, how is it about money? Like how? 2020 02:16:38.959 --> 02:16:43.520 I mean, yeah, people definitely find ways to profit from war, 2021 02:16:43.680 --> 02:16:46.680 but you can profit from literally anything, you know. I mean, 2022 02:16:46.760 --> 02:16:50.120 that's that doesn't tell us anything, you know, but that's 2023 02:16:51.239 --> 02:16:55.879 this is fundamentally important, and this not not just the 2024 02:16:55.920 --> 02:16:58.440 catach to feel the Great War, and you know the 2025 02:16:58.520 --> 02:17:02.040 fact that it kind of deformed the entire generation, I mean, 2026 02:17:02.159 --> 02:17:05.159 and put an entire generation in the grave as well. 2027 02:17:05.280 --> 02:17:09.799 But it these these these tensions and these uncertainties, this 2028 02:17:10.000 --> 02:17:12.959 is what uh, this is what facility. This is what 2029 02:17:13.120 --> 02:17:17.920 expedited the Bolshevik Revolution, which very easily, by the way, 2030 02:17:18.040 --> 02:17:21.200 could have prevailed europe wide. You know, I mean it's uh. 2031 02:17:23.280 --> 02:17:26.600 I'm the first to acknowledge, as any serious student in 2032 02:17:26.600 --> 02:17:32.879 the twentieth century, is it's strange that, uh, the the 2033 02:17:33.479 --> 02:17:40.639 literal heart of the of the Communist International was was Russia. 2034 02:17:40.840 --> 02:17:46.399 That's that's weird. But people conveniently forget or they just 2035 02:17:46.479 --> 02:17:51.280 don't know because they they're subjected to bad history, you know. 2036 02:17:51.319 --> 02:17:53.879 I mean, there was a communist revolution in Germany, there 2037 02:17:54.000 --> 02:17:56.719 was a communist revolution in Hungary, there almost was in 2038 02:17:56.799 --> 02:18:00.360 the UK. You know, this stuff was stopped by forrest arms. 2039 02:18:00.760 --> 02:18:04.079 It didn't just fizzle out or something, you know. But 2040 02:18:05.760 --> 02:18:08.280 this is the way to understand the twentieth century and 2041 02:18:08.399 --> 02:18:13.200 the degree to which you know, the twentieth century was 2042 02:18:13.360 --> 02:18:20.079 basically a reaction to communism. I mean, they can't be overstated, 2043 02:18:21.040 --> 02:18:24.920 you know, in power political terms, I mean, like, obviously, 2044 02:18:25.000 --> 02:18:29.879 if we're talking about human life at scale, in any book, 2045 02:18:30.000 --> 02:18:35.120 there's an entire myriad of factors across a broad spectrum 2046 02:18:35.200 --> 02:18:43.280 that go into that. But the kind of key takeaway is, uh, 2047 02:18:45.360 --> 02:18:51.440 you know what Osbon called the age of capitalism like 2048 02:18:51.559 --> 02:18:57.120 facilitated this and like that's he actually he wrote an 2049 02:18:57.239 --> 02:18:59.760 essay that became a book called The Age of Capital 2050 02:19:00.000 --> 02:19:06.159 eighteen forty eight to eighteen seventy five, and he makes 2051 02:19:06.200 --> 02:19:09.680 the point the word capitalism it first entered like the 2052 02:19:09.799 --> 02:19:13.680 let the academic lexicon in the eighteen sixties, you know, 2053 02:19:15.000 --> 02:19:19.639 from eighteen forty eight, like after the revolutions in Europe 2054 02:19:19.719 --> 02:19:25.200 were quashed in both Europe and America, there was this 2055 02:19:25.399 --> 02:19:30.120 there's this kind of like massive economic boom okay, And 2056 02:19:30.239 --> 02:19:33.239 that's one of the things that meant that there wasn't 2057 02:19:33.239 --> 02:19:38.479 another like eighteen forty eight like revolutionary sentiment because like 2058 02:19:38.559 --> 02:19:43.079 there's a lot of wealth being produced, you know. But 2059 02:19:43.239 --> 02:19:47.079 again there was these kinds of like obsolete social structures 2060 02:19:47.200 --> 02:19:52.680 that were sort of organizing people's lives. Nonetheless, yet these 2061 02:19:52.760 --> 02:19:57.760 societies were flooded with capital. But it was it wasn't 2062 02:19:59.360 --> 02:20:02.479 it was it was much like funnel into specific channels, 2063 02:20:02.559 --> 02:20:06.920 you know, not by conspiracy of design or something, but uh, 2064 02:20:08.319 --> 02:20:11.479 there just was not like a free like like individual 2065 02:20:11.600 --> 02:20:13.920 people and not a lot of person power, and this 2066 02:20:14.040 --> 02:20:19.079 created like weird disparities, you know, like there wasn't there's 2067 02:20:19.120 --> 02:20:22.959 a lot of like if you're a if you're a 2068 02:20:23.040 --> 02:20:26.680 neoliberal economic economist, you look at this as like basic 2069 02:20:26.799 --> 02:20:31.000 marketing efficiencies. You know, this is why like banking is 2070 02:20:31.040 --> 02:20:35.520 so important to like the monitorist view. And then they're 2071 02:20:35.600 --> 02:20:40.520 right about that. You know, the the availability of capital 2072 02:20:40.719 --> 02:20:46.600 and you know, uh competence and financial instruments like that. 2073 02:20:46.959 --> 02:20:49.840 That's that's the regulatory mechanism that's essential. But beyond that, 2074 02:20:49.959 --> 02:20:52.920 you basically need like capital flow like where it's going 2075 02:20:53.000 --> 02:20:58.000 to be most efficiently allocated in order to produce produce wealth. 2076 02:20:58.120 --> 02:21:00.559 And that that wasn't really happening, despite the fact that 2077 02:21:00.680 --> 02:21:04.479 you had you know, you had kind of at the 2078 02:21:04.600 --> 02:21:09.200 top and also kind of like unevenly distributed like sort 2079 02:21:09.239 --> 02:21:13.920 of throughout the sociological spectrum. You know, you had some 2080 02:21:14.159 --> 02:21:17.280 like some incredible innovations that were like aldering people's lives, 2081 02:21:17.799 --> 02:21:21.079 and there was like government could simply do things that 2082 02:21:21.159 --> 02:21:23.319 it couldn't before. I mean like lot World War One, 2083 02:21:23.440 --> 02:21:26.399 Like that's totally insane. Like the ability to mobilize like 2084 02:21:26.520 --> 02:21:29.799 five million men, arm them, equip them, feed them, then 2085 02:21:29.879 --> 02:21:32.840 like turn them loose to like assault your ops like 2086 02:21:33.920 --> 02:21:36.040 that that would be like unthinkable even in like the 2087 02:21:36.159 --> 02:21:41.000 Napoleonic era, you know. And it's not just modern command 2088 02:21:41.040 --> 02:21:43.399 and control. It was like transportation, it was you know, 2089 02:21:44.399 --> 02:21:47.479 it was more efficient fuel sources. It was like more 2090 02:21:47.520 --> 02:21:49.840 efficient killing technology, and it was like it was all 2091 02:21:49.920 --> 02:21:56.520 these things. But the uh, something else that's important too, 2092 02:21:56.639 --> 02:21:59.600 is Hoblom said. And he was writing this in the fifties. 2093 02:22:00.040 --> 02:22:01.639 See first rod As I say, like in the fifties, 2094 02:22:03.239 --> 02:22:05.559 but this age of capital this was like the first 2095 02:22:05.719 --> 02:22:10.559 This was like the NACA early stage of global globalization. Okay, 2096 02:22:12.680 --> 02:22:16.120 because if you were a major capitalist power, you know, 2097 02:22:16.159 --> 02:22:19.200 and again I involved in our capitalists and within the 2098 02:22:19.319 --> 02:22:21.680 terms Hoswam doesn't, I don't use those kinds of terms, 2099 02:22:23.000 --> 02:22:29.680 but you know, you the British Empire held equity basically 2100 02:22:29.799 --> 02:22:35.399 at every continent, you know, and America was not yet 2101 02:22:35.440 --> 02:22:39.559 a superpower, but you'd find American goods basically all over 2102 02:22:39.600 --> 02:22:48.079 the world, okay. And there wasn't a there wasn't a 2103 02:22:48.200 --> 02:22:54.760 unified banking structure, but lending across national frontiers at scale 2104 02:22:54.920 --> 02:23:01.120 with governments guaranteeing financial instruments, that started blowing up, you know, 2105 02:23:01.440 --> 02:23:04.600 and that that would have been unthinkable before. You know, 2106 02:23:05.719 --> 02:23:08.920 in a lot of countries, it was literally illegal for uh, 2107 02:23:09.520 --> 02:23:13.159 national banks to you know, to trade across the national 2108 02:23:13.239 --> 02:23:17.840 frontiers or to or to issue financial instruments in foreign markets. 2109 02:23:19.159 --> 02:23:22.319 But a lot of countries simply wouldn't deal in your currency, 2110 02:23:22.799 --> 02:23:24.920 like even if it was uh, even even if it 2111 02:23:24.959 --> 02:23:28.120 was viewed as you know, a desirable currency and speculators 2112 02:23:28.120 --> 02:23:30.920 would invest in it. Oh and and and purising foreign 2113 02:23:31.000 --> 02:23:33.399 currencies at this time was also largely illegal. It was 2114 02:23:33.440 --> 02:23:36.319 quote unquote currency speculation. It was like literally a crime, 2115 02:23:36.600 --> 02:23:40.239 which is crazy, but that that that that was the norm, 2116 02:23:40.479 --> 02:23:50.159 you know. But this uh but because of that, like 2117 02:23:50.280 --> 02:23:53.399 in the early stages of any economic system or any paradigm, 2118 02:23:53.639 --> 02:23:57.120 not system, but like paradigm, there's gonna be like really 2119 02:23:57.239 --> 02:24:02.799 really uneven growth, okay, and that's gonna lead to certain disparities. 2120 02:24:02.840 --> 02:24:06.600 I'm not talking like social justice disparities. I mean like 2121 02:24:06.719 --> 02:24:12.280 between enterprises, a lot of capital is being created, but 2122 02:24:12.399 --> 02:24:16.040 a lot is being wiped out like we just mentioned 2123 02:24:17.879 --> 02:24:22.040 across national frontiers, this kind of development is uneven. But 2124 02:24:22.280 --> 02:24:28.120 also certain industries develop a kind of outside cloud. Okay, 2125 02:24:29.319 --> 02:24:38.159 and not the arms industry per se, but the the 2126 02:24:38.319 --> 02:24:43.520 kind of a terrestrial manufacturing enterprises that facilitate the arms industry. 2127 02:24:44.840 --> 02:24:51.200 They developed outside power like as did again you know, uh, 2128 02:24:51.559 --> 02:24:55.479 financial institutions. This wasn't some conspiracy and that's not why 2129 02:24:55.520 --> 02:24:57.959 World War went happened, but it was a but it 2130 02:24:58.040 --> 02:25:04.159 facilitated resorting to military he measures to remedy power political imbalances. 2131 02:25:04.360 --> 02:25:08.840 Uh at scale. Okay, there was a perfect storm at things. 2132 02:25:09.200 --> 02:25:14.479 And again that's that's really important, you know. And in 2133 02:25:14.600 --> 02:25:17.440 my own like manuscript to try and emphasize this point 2134 02:25:18.559 --> 02:25:21.840 and has well, I don't. It's not like my primary 2135 02:25:22.200 --> 02:25:28.840 authority on it, but I do cite. But uh yeah, 2136 02:25:29.799 --> 02:25:37.520 moving on, it's also too domestically, whether you're talking about 2137 02:25:38.079 --> 02:25:42.840 the United States, the UK, France, or Germany, the way 2138 02:25:43.239 --> 02:25:45.799 such things I've got to mention were characterized kind of 2139 02:25:45.879 --> 02:25:51.120 differed along the you know, local custom and cultural differences 2140 02:25:51.200 --> 02:25:54.760 and convention, but kind of like the link the lingua 2141 02:25:54.879 --> 02:25:59.040 franc of government became you know this like there's like 2142 02:25:59.159 --> 02:26:04.440 this resurgence sort of like Enlightenment shivelus. So whether you're 2143 02:26:04.479 --> 02:26:07.879 in Berlin, London, Washington, Paris, all your heart from government 2144 02:26:08.000 --> 02:26:10.120 is oh see, like this is like an age of 2145 02:26:10.280 --> 02:26:14.319 unprecedented plenty, you know, it's the age of reason and 2146 02:26:14.520 --> 02:26:19.959 science and progress. But people were getting like ground into dust, 2147 02:26:20.639 --> 02:26:23.600 you know, and like working in a factory or a slaughterhouse. 2148 02:26:24.040 --> 02:26:28.520 That was like hell, you know, it's not I tell 2149 02:26:28.840 --> 02:26:31.360 a lot of guys in the right who they you know, 2150 02:26:31.440 --> 02:26:34.600 they throw shade on stuff like Upton Sinclair's the Jungle 2151 02:26:35.200 --> 02:26:37.959 and I'm like, okay, I'm like, yeah, I don't agree 2152 02:26:38.000 --> 02:26:41.319 with those kinds of conclusions either. But what he describes, 2153 02:26:41.920 --> 02:26:46.079 that's that's that's one hundred percent accurate. You know. There'd 2154 02:26:46.120 --> 02:26:50.000 be guys, uh, there was no welfare state. You couldn't 2155 02:26:50.040 --> 02:26:52.200 just get like a link card. So if you were 2156 02:26:52.239 --> 02:26:56.840 out of work, like you weren't eating, and basically your 2157 02:26:56.920 --> 02:27:00.000 ability to make a living depended on your ability to 2158 02:27:00.159 --> 02:27:04.440 physically like perform, you know, and guys would die on 2159 02:27:04.559 --> 02:27:07.280 the job like there's like ten percent like attrition and 2160 02:27:07.760 --> 02:27:10.440 like a steel mill or like a slaughterhouse, you know, 2161 02:27:10.520 --> 02:27:12.760 and if God for bidding, get injured or like you 2162 02:27:12.879 --> 02:27:17.399 lose three fingers on your hand in some machine. You know, 2163 02:27:18.680 --> 02:27:21.680 they're the big the biggest surplus in any major city 2164 02:27:21.719 --> 02:27:24.040 at this time was like that of like evil bodied 2165 02:27:24.120 --> 02:27:25.000 men who want to work. 2166 02:27:25.760 --> 02:27:29.760 So did did hobs Im have anything to say about 2167 02:27:29.799 --> 02:27:34.879 the move from agrarianism to basically employment where you're providing 2168 02:27:34.959 --> 02:27:38.079 for yourself with your own with your own hands. And 2169 02:27:38.159 --> 02:27:40.760 then all of a sudden, it seems in the span 2170 02:27:40.840 --> 02:27:43.920 of a decade, people are moving to cities to get jobs. 2171 02:27:44.959 --> 02:27:48.159 Yeah he uh yeah, yeah, he got he got a 2172 02:27:48.200 --> 02:27:53.159 lot into that. I mean, the the extrapolation of you know, 2173 02:27:53.239 --> 02:27:58.360 the household being the center of production to people being 2174 02:27:58.440 --> 02:28:02.760 forced to sell their lab as some sort of factory worker. Like, yeah, 2175 02:28:02.840 --> 02:28:08.879 that was tremendously disruptive, and you know it also, I 2176 02:28:08.959 --> 02:28:14.239 mean how mom was insightful in his sociological takedown because 2177 02:28:14.360 --> 02:28:18.200 unlike a lot of people, you know, show Schumpeter's big 2178 02:28:18.280 --> 02:28:21.719 critique of the Marcus paradigm and I'm gonna bring this back, 2179 02:28:21.760 --> 02:28:25.159 I'm going somewhere with this was like, look like Marcus 2180 02:28:25.200 --> 02:28:28.399 aren't really talking about class, Like the job you do 2181 02:28:28.760 --> 02:28:31.760 isn't your class, you know, like your class is what 2182 02:28:31.799 --> 02:28:36.920 you're born into and it's defined by how you relate 2183 02:28:37.079 --> 02:28:40.319 to other people similarly born to this kind of like 2184 02:28:40.440 --> 02:28:46.920 social stratum that isn't really mobile, you know. So in 2185 02:28:47.079 --> 02:28:51.079 Schumpeter's view, which is the traditional view, it doesn't matter 2186 02:28:51.159 --> 02:28:53.719 what job you're doing around which money you have, Like, 2187 02:28:53.799 --> 02:28:55.639 that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a class, 2188 02:28:56.360 --> 02:28:58.959 and class isn't something you can just like jump up 2189 02:28:59.000 --> 02:29:03.639 from or down from, like within a generation. And Osbom 2190 02:29:03.719 --> 02:29:06.520 accepted some of those premises. He's like, yeah, you know, 2191 02:29:07.719 --> 02:29:10.360 one of the reasons why the working class exists is 2192 02:29:10.520 --> 02:29:16.200 because the social capital, the kind of facilitated no blessedge 2193 02:29:16.360 --> 02:29:18.959 oblige as well as you know, kind of the communitarian 2194 02:29:19.360 --> 02:29:24.239 impulse that you know, stood in for the welfare state 2195 02:29:24.559 --> 02:29:28.920 and antiquity and things. He's like, capitalism like rips all 2196 02:29:28.959 --> 02:29:31.399 that apart, and it makes every man like a stranger, 2197 02:29:31.680 --> 02:29:35.319 and it enshrines the war of all against all not 2198 02:29:35.559 --> 02:29:40.280 only as like an an implacable reality, but as like 2199 02:29:40.360 --> 02:29:44.399 a positive good. Almost so the only thing you have 2200 02:29:44.479 --> 02:29:47.879 in common with like your neighbors figuratively and literally is 2201 02:29:47.959 --> 02:29:51.280 that you're all being crushed like in these in this 2202 02:29:51.479 --> 02:29:55.760 like industrial labor environment, and you know, you've got to 2203 02:29:55.799 --> 02:29:59.319 stand together or all die. And that's like what the 2204 02:29:59.399 --> 02:30:02.200 working claim is. You know, it's not it's not a 2205 02:30:02.280 --> 02:30:05.239 class in like the traditional sense, or there's not some 2206 02:30:05.399 --> 02:30:11.360 like basic affinity between between people, like they're your comrades 2207 02:30:11.520 --> 02:30:14.879 because you're you're like in the same way you are 2208 02:30:15.120 --> 02:30:17.559 like with the guys you're like unjustly locked in prison 2209 02:30:17.639 --> 02:30:21.639 with you know, it's it's circumstances that like drive you together, 2210 02:30:22.719 --> 02:30:26.040 so and that and that that actually tracks with like 2211 02:30:26.079 --> 02:30:28.920 what marsh was talking about in dos Capital, Like if 2212 02:30:30.479 --> 02:30:33.079 when you talk about alienation, he's not just talking about 2213 02:30:33.120 --> 02:30:37.040 the process of whereby labor is not personal anymore. You 2214 02:30:37.120 --> 02:30:40.879 don't create things. You're not a producer. You're just doing 2215 02:30:40.959 --> 02:30:43.799 this like pointless process, like over and over and over again. 2216 02:30:43.879 --> 02:30:48.239 It's dangerous and dirty and painful, but it's alienation from 2217 02:30:48.280 --> 02:30:50.520 your fellow man. And even if you haven't to be married, 2218 02:30:50.639 --> 02:30:52.639 like you never see your wife. She she's stuck with 2219 02:30:52.719 --> 02:30:56.399 some dangerous, dirty job like you have. You know at 2220 02:30:56.440 --> 02:31:00.200 the end of the day, like maybe you like get 2221 02:31:00.200 --> 02:31:02.879 to sleep by saying betisar And occasionally you collide in 2222 02:31:03.319 --> 02:31:07.760 intimacy and have children but he's like that that alienation 2223 02:31:08.200 --> 02:31:12.360 touchs and concerns every aspect of the workers existence. It's 2224 02:31:12.399 --> 02:31:14.959 not it's not. It doesn't just like remove his labor 2225 02:31:15.079 --> 02:31:19.879 from his own domain and creative power. It alienates him 2226 02:31:19.959 --> 02:31:22.440 from like what should be his community. It alienates him 2227 02:31:22.440 --> 02:31:24.680 from his ethnos, it alienates him from his wife, It 2228 02:31:24.799 --> 02:31:28.200 alienates him from you know, he doesn't have neighbors anymore. 2229 02:31:29.200 --> 02:31:33.719 You know that this all tracks and yeah, so he 2230 02:31:33.879 --> 02:31:36.319 makes a lot out of that, and that's one of 2231 02:31:36.360 --> 02:31:43.520 the reasons why this process whereby the Vestigel aristocracy, he's 2232 02:31:43.559 --> 02:31:48.920 able to like hang on to power because people were 2233 02:31:49.079 --> 02:31:53.799 people like bonded in pee andage. They are dependent upon 2234 02:31:54.879 --> 02:31:57.440 like the lord of the manner. And this is a 2235 02:31:57.520 --> 02:32:03.959 deeply psychological process and it's enduring. It's in a Hosmon view, Okay, 2236 02:32:04.239 --> 02:32:07.760 this alien this this this alienation that is a matter 2237 02:32:07.799 --> 02:32:09.440 of life and death. In a lot of cases, it 2238 02:32:09.479 --> 02:32:12.079 sounds a matter of clodial life, like it stands to 2239 02:32:12.239 --> 02:32:16.479 kill you. He's like, really, the only remedy these people 2240 02:32:16.600 --> 02:32:19.079 have is like appeal to the church or to like 2241 02:32:19.159 --> 02:32:22.799 appeal to traditional social elements that are kind of like 2242 02:32:22.840 --> 02:32:25.440 the guardians of the culture. If you want to think 2243 02:32:25.440 --> 02:32:29.079 about it that way. So they appeal to aristocrats and stuff, 2244 02:32:29.639 --> 02:32:32.280 you know, for justice. And that's one of the things 2245 02:32:32.280 --> 02:32:35.639 that keeps these guys like if not relevant, like able 2246 02:32:35.719 --> 02:32:37.559 to remain like in situ. 2247 02:32:38.719 --> 02:32:38.879 You know. 2248 02:32:39.600 --> 02:32:41.399 That's why hosbal it. 2249 02:32:41.479 --> 02:32:44.719 Keeps it keeps the revolution in stasis. There's no there's 2250 02:32:44.760 --> 02:32:46.280 no chance of having a revolution. 2251 02:32:46.440 --> 02:32:50.280 Yeah, exactly, And so guys like a Hosball. And he 2252 02:32:50.319 --> 02:32:53.559 said this was the big problem in during like this 2253 02:32:53.799 --> 02:32:58.159 the long crisis he talked about, because uh, there was 2254 02:32:58.200 --> 02:33:01.680 always like technological innovation in this kind of future shock 2255 02:33:01.799 --> 02:33:06.959 and disturbance, but political cultures were like frozen, you know, 2256 02:33:07.440 --> 02:33:10.479 and that was I mean, that's that's the point of 2257 02:33:10.600 --> 02:33:14.600 like any revolutionary Marxist in the twentieth century, but Cosmon 2258 02:33:14.760 --> 02:33:20.000 especially because I think that he had a particular emphasis 2259 02:33:20.040 --> 02:33:23.360 as well as insight into sociological questions. He's like, we've 2260 02:33:23.360 --> 02:33:25.760 got to educate people to break them of these things, 2261 02:33:26.000 --> 02:33:28.280 of these tendencies. We've basically got to like break them 2262 02:33:28.319 --> 02:33:32.079 on their short term self interest or their attachment to it, 2263 02:33:32.600 --> 02:33:35.959 because we've got to literally kill the aristocracy. We've got 2264 02:33:36.000 --> 02:33:39.079 to allow the bourgeoisie to conquer everything. We've got to 2265 02:33:39.159 --> 02:33:42.200 let them consolidate, We've got to let them create conditions 2266 02:33:42.239 --> 02:33:46.680 of plenty before we kill them figuratively and literally. You know, 2267 02:33:47.600 --> 02:33:52.559 it's a very brutal view of a struggle processes, but 2268 02:33:52.959 --> 02:33:58.799 within the bounded rationality of Marxist Leninism that tracks, you know, 2269 02:33:59.360 --> 02:34:04.479 and there is like a kernel of truth to it, 2270 02:34:04.799 --> 02:34:08.120 not in terms of its ethical conclusions, but I mean, 2271 02:34:08.239 --> 02:34:12.079 like today this is a bit of a tangent, but 2272 02:34:12.200 --> 02:34:15.799 I'm was making the point to guys, this has died somewhat, 2273 02:34:15.959 --> 02:34:20.920 but it's it won't die completely. This is a favorite 2274 02:34:20.920 --> 02:34:24.559 refrain of of dissident people as well. There's gonna be 2275 02:34:24.559 --> 02:34:27.280 a massive financial collapse and a great depression. That's never 2276 02:34:27.319 --> 02:34:31.920 going to happen again, Okay, because it can't happen in 2277 02:34:32.000 --> 02:34:37.000 the state of information awareness. Like to the second information awareness, 2278 02:34:37.959 --> 02:34:41.040 that kind of stuff only happens long to uncertainties. There's 2279 02:34:41.079 --> 02:34:44.319 not uncertainties anymore. Like that doesn't mean the dollar can't 2280 02:34:44.440 --> 02:34:47.200 like bottom out, But even if it did, that doesn't 2281 02:34:47.239 --> 02:34:51.159 mean like you're not gonna be able to buy food. Okay, Now, 2282 02:34:52.559 --> 02:34:56.120 there could absolutely be shortages. I don't believe in climate 2283 02:34:56.280 --> 02:34:59.280 change in the sense of these crazy people who think 2284 02:34:59.399 --> 02:35:04.239 who are stand in like apocalypse cult for them. But 2285 02:35:04.760 --> 02:35:09.280 I'm certain that there's all kinds of environmental factors that 2286 02:35:09.840 --> 02:35:13.639 just owing to God's will or the nuances of of 2287 02:35:15.200 --> 02:35:19.600 of this planet, I I could easily see famines coming back. 2288 02:35:19.959 --> 02:35:22.639 I mean, uh, and you know, I mean it's if 2289 02:35:22.680 --> 02:35:26.120 they're if it suddenly became impossible to grow certain kinds 2290 02:35:26.120 --> 02:35:29.360 of crops, that would fool oar everything. I mean, so 2291 02:35:29.520 --> 02:35:32.840 I absolutely do not say like crises can't happen. But 2292 02:35:32.920 --> 02:35:38.200 this idea that you know, like owing to miscalculation or 2293 02:35:38.360 --> 02:35:44.000 owing to like a gap in you know, information awareness, 2294 02:35:45.040 --> 02:35:48.600 you know of hours or days, like you know, like 2295 02:35:48.959 --> 02:35:51.040 like billions of dollars is gonna be like wiped out 2296 02:35:51.079 --> 02:35:53.799 overnight in the stock market. That would never happen again. 2297 02:35:53.879 --> 02:36:00.760 That's retarded, you know. And guys like how One predicted 2298 02:36:00.840 --> 02:36:03.760 that he said, stuff's gonna largely be rubberized moving forward. 2299 02:36:03.920 --> 02:36:06.520 There's not gonna be like food shortages. You know, there's 2300 02:36:06.559 --> 02:36:09.120 not gonna it's gonna be very easy to produce things 2301 02:36:09.200 --> 02:36:12.879 that today him talking in like nineteen fifties are hard 2302 02:36:12.920 --> 02:36:15.440 to produce. You know, you're gonna like a lot of 2303 02:36:15.440 --> 02:36:18.399 these problems are gonna go away, you know, and that 2304 02:36:18.559 --> 02:36:21.399 and that happened, you know, and that's one of the 2305 02:36:21.440 --> 02:36:25.799 reasons why this is I mean, this is probably not 2306 02:36:25.879 --> 02:36:28.520 the scope, but one of the ways you can tell, 2307 02:36:28.639 --> 02:36:31.159 like our government is like full of like crackheads and 2308 02:36:31.280 --> 02:36:36.120 insane people is because if they didn't overreach and remotely smart, 2309 02:36:36.959 --> 02:36:40.799 they could basically hold on to power indefinitely. Because this 2310 02:36:40.920 --> 02:36:44.399 isn't the nineteen twenties, because because people aren't going hungry, 2311 02:36:44.959 --> 02:36:47.319 because there's not a military draft or we're respected to 2312 02:36:47.399 --> 02:36:50.520 like sacrifice your son in a meat grinder. You know, 2313 02:36:50.639 --> 02:36:55.040 there's not a Soviet Union whereby you know, at any 2314 02:36:55.159 --> 02:36:59.479 at any time basically, you know, some enemy society that's 2315 02:36:59.520 --> 02:37:02.840 like mobile lies a massive scale could decide to like 2316 02:37:02.959 --> 02:37:09.200 sue for war to remedy the kind of uneven power paradigm, 2317 02:37:09.799 --> 02:37:12.680 you know. Like so so it's it's you can tell 2318 02:37:12.680 --> 02:37:15.319 these people are insane because like they're they're basically burning 2319 02:37:15.399 --> 02:37:17.719 the house down when there's no reason to do that. 2320 02:37:19.079 --> 02:37:24.200 But you know that the degree to which, uh that 2321 02:37:24.319 --> 02:37:26.280 that's also why too. I mean, like I said, I 2322 02:37:26.840 --> 02:37:30.280 I it's it's it's dumb for people to claim that 2323 02:37:30.559 --> 02:37:34.600 people like Missus Harris are Marxists anyway, But it's Marxism, 2324 02:37:34.680 --> 02:37:37.760 isn't just Marxism, isn't wokeism, it's not it's not it's 2325 02:37:37.799 --> 02:37:43.959 not liberalism. It's it's it's it's a very discreete uh 2326 02:37:44.520 --> 02:37:49.319 like claim and series of claims about historical processes. And 2327 02:37:50.600 --> 02:37:54.920 in the short term, Marxists absolutely want capitalists to succeed. 2328 02:37:55.280 --> 02:37:57.360 They don't want it to fail, they want it to 2329 02:37:57.520 --> 02:38:00.479 fully succeed. They wanted to conquer every thing, and then 2330 02:38:00.520 --> 02:38:02.680 they want to kill the people at the helms of 2331 02:38:02.719 --> 02:38:09.120 the apparatus. Like that's whole point. You know what, what's 2332 02:38:09.200 --> 02:38:14.000 strange about how it developed in terms of actual practice 2333 02:38:15.559 --> 02:38:21.120 is that it did it did again like the like 2334 02:38:21.360 --> 02:38:23.840 like the the quite literally like the heart of the 2335 02:38:24.120 --> 02:38:26.680 of the Bolshevik Revolution in the real world was a 2336 02:38:26.760 --> 02:38:30.639 place that really had no like industrial working class. You know. 2337 02:38:30.920 --> 02:38:35.840 It was just like basically backwards monarchy that ruled over 2338 02:38:35.959 --> 02:38:38.879 this this this this is this massive territory you know, 2339 02:38:38.920 --> 02:38:40.639 like the Russian Empire had more in common with the 2340 02:38:40.680 --> 02:38:43.840 Ottomans than it did with Europe. Okay, I'm not saying 2341 02:38:44.120 --> 02:38:47.159 like racially or whatever, Like I'm not taking a position 2342 02:38:47.239 --> 02:38:49.639 on that. So I don't know, people get mad, but 2343 02:38:49.879 --> 02:38:51.799 in terms of the way it was structured, and in 2344 02:38:51.920 --> 02:38:55.600 terms of it being like an anachronism in the twentieth 2345 02:38:55.680 --> 02:38:58.920 century when it finally got brought down, it's really really 2346 02:38:59.079 --> 02:39:03.520 strange that this is where the bullshrep Revolution was consolidated 2347 02:39:03.559 --> 02:39:06.559 and truly succeeded. You know. That's why. That's one of 2348 02:39:06.600 --> 02:39:11.799 the reasons why when I talk a lot to these guys. 2349 02:39:12.520 --> 02:39:15.559 I'm not Jackson Hinkle himself. I don't know him, but 2350 02:39:15.840 --> 02:39:18.319 I know guys in his orbit and guys who describe 2351 02:39:18.319 --> 02:39:21.040 to that kind of worldview. So like, there are a 2352 02:39:21.040 --> 02:39:23.280 lot of there. Like rebuttals to people like me are like, well, 2353 02:39:23.360 --> 02:39:27.280 you can't extrapolate a lot from the Soviet Union. It's like, well, 2354 02:39:27.319 --> 02:39:30.239 I can, but even if I accept that postulate, well, 2355 02:39:30.319 --> 02:39:33.959 I can't extrapolate a lot, even by your own criteria, 2356 02:39:34.040 --> 02:39:36.959 from East Germany. Okay, you know, and it's well there 2357 02:39:37.000 --> 02:39:38.399 you go, Okay, you tell you tell me, like East 2358 02:39:38.479 --> 02:39:42.440 Germany wasn't an industrial state like it. I I mean, 2359 02:39:42.440 --> 02:39:45.079 if you want to perfectly realize, like marcis Alana state, 2360 02:39:45.159 --> 02:39:47.680 it was the DDR, I mean that they can't be argued, 2361 02:39:48.559 --> 02:39:50.600 I mean, I suppose like they're I suppose they're like 2362 02:39:50.799 --> 02:39:53.000 rebuttal of that would be like, well, that was an 2363 02:39:53.079 --> 02:39:56.879 artificial state that emerged out of like military exigencies, and 2364 02:39:57.760 --> 02:39:59.719 you know the fact that it was beliguered and threatened, 2365 02:40:02.360 --> 02:40:06.680 you know, owing to conditions imposed by capitalists, like is 2366 02:40:06.920 --> 02:40:10.680 somehow like takes off at table as as a pure 2367 02:40:11.319 --> 02:40:15.799 example of practice, but because it may you know, the 2368 02:40:17.159 --> 02:40:21.000 to bring it back again, I forgive m from ramblings. 2369 02:40:21.040 --> 02:40:26.319 I don't feel good, but the uh, the degree of 2370 02:40:26.399 --> 02:40:30.200 which again like marked actual Marxists viewed these things as 2371 02:40:30.319 --> 02:40:34.639 necessary processes like can't be denied. Like Marxist will not 2372 02:40:34.799 --> 02:40:38.040 be in the street saying like we need we need, 2373 02:40:38.319 --> 02:40:42.520 we need Acne Widget Company to hire more women because 2374 02:40:42.559 --> 02:40:44.840 it's bad not to And they wouldn't be saying like 2375 02:40:45.239 --> 02:40:47.879 we need to text these people more like none of 2376 02:40:47.959 --> 02:40:51.239 that would be like in their horizon. They'd be like, 2377 02:40:51.360 --> 02:40:54.000 we want Acne Widget Company to become like as massive 2378 02:40:54.079 --> 02:40:57.559 as possible. We wanted to insinuate itself into everything. We 2379 02:40:57.680 --> 02:41:01.280 wanted to be able to produce everything we needed, you know, 2380 02:41:02.479 --> 02:41:04.920 almost like magic, and then we want to kill the 2381 02:41:05.040 --> 02:41:07.040 people who own it and we want to take it 2382 02:41:07.360 --> 02:41:10.440 and we want to make it the public domain of 2383 02:41:10.520 --> 02:41:15.239 the workers. That's what they want or want it. Like 2384 02:41:15.360 --> 02:41:18.959 I said, I I white guy like Jackson Hinkel. I 2385 02:41:18.959 --> 02:41:21.600 think they're playing an important role right now if you're 2386 02:41:21.959 --> 02:41:25.120 any kind of dissident or in any kind of actual 2387 02:41:25.200 --> 02:41:26.079 resistance actor. 2388 02:41:26.200 --> 02:41:30.120 But the really interesting, the interesting thing about that is 2389 02:41:31.520 --> 02:41:33.680 it's the way, you know that these people who call 2390 02:41:33.760 --> 02:41:39.879 themselves Marxists or call themselves communists nowadays aren't because they 2391 02:41:39.959 --> 02:41:44.120 would want Elon to succeed and take over and become 2392 02:41:44.600 --> 02:41:47.639 you know, like my friend Matt says his own hensiatic league. 2393 02:41:47.920 --> 02:41:50.559 They want him to do that so then they could 2394 02:41:51.200 --> 02:41:54.879 take it over by force. But they shit all over him, 2395 02:41:54.920 --> 02:41:56.600 and oh you know, yeah. 2396 02:41:57.639 --> 02:41:59.879 Well, the point that the degree in which these people 2397 02:42:00.239 --> 02:42:03.120 today they're just like goofy envy crats who are like 2398 02:42:04.120 --> 02:42:06.520 it's just they're just like people who are like that 2399 02:42:06.639 --> 02:42:08.879 guy's a big shot. I don't like him. It's like 2400 02:42:08.920 --> 02:42:11.639 that basic, you know, and it's like it doesn't and 2401 02:42:11.760 --> 02:42:14.760 like you can only that too is a symptom of 2402 02:42:14.840 --> 02:42:18.440 prosperity as well, because even yeah, you read, Ernest Younger 2403 02:42:18.600 --> 02:42:21.600 was a fascinating guy in all kinds of ways, but 2404 02:42:21.760 --> 02:42:25.399 he lived through this stuff, and you know, he kind 2405 02:42:25.440 --> 02:42:28.040 of he was kind of a strass arrist man, you know, 2406 02:42:28.159 --> 02:42:31.719 like he he was very much a socialist. And if 2407 02:42:31.760 --> 02:42:34.239 you read something like The Glass Bees, the character of 2408 02:42:34.399 --> 02:42:37.719 Zapperoni likes he's obviously like kind of a matchup. But 2409 02:42:37.799 --> 02:42:42.959 like Howard Hughes and Andrew Carnegie and and like Walt Disney. 2410 02:42:44.079 --> 02:42:47.399 But uh, you know, and like that, guys like Zapperoni 2411 02:42:47.479 --> 02:42:51.639 are real type. But you know, guys like Younger thought 2412 02:42:51.719 --> 02:42:54.760 these guys were historical giants. They're like, these guys are 2413 02:42:54.799 --> 02:42:57.479 gonna change the world. They're gonna change everything, and they're 2414 02:42:57.520 --> 02:43:01.040 playing an essential role in this historical process. You know. 2415 02:43:03.000 --> 02:43:07.360 That's it's not I mean, I'm I'm as anti communist 2416 02:43:07.399 --> 02:43:09.959 as it's possible to be. I don't think that should 2417 02:43:09.959 --> 02:43:14.200 be in dispute. But communists, they're they're not dummies, or 2418 02:43:14.239 --> 02:43:16.360 they weren't dummies who were just like I'm I don't 2419 02:43:16.520 --> 02:43:18.639 like that guy because he has more stuff than me. 2420 02:43:18.840 --> 02:43:21.399 It has nothing to do with that, you know, Like, 2421 02:43:21.479 --> 02:43:23.840 it's not it's not just like dumb a lumping bullshit 2422 02:43:24.079 --> 02:43:28.120 or like guys who think like gangster rappers, or something 2423 02:43:28.200 --> 02:43:31.879 like that's not like that, that's fucking retarded, you know, 2424 02:43:32.000 --> 02:43:38.280 and this, uh, the these it's it's these like internet 2425 02:43:38.319 --> 02:43:39.920 guys who have never read a book in their life 2426 02:43:40.000 --> 02:43:44.319 like calling people. It's like goofy as fuck. But but no, 2427 02:43:44.479 --> 02:43:47.399 I think, you know, and today I REALI wasn't going 2428 02:43:47.440 --> 02:43:49.799 aside the scope. Don't forgive me for that if it's 2429 02:43:51.440 --> 02:43:58.840 boring people. But guys like Emmanuel Wallerstein, guys who uh, 2430 02:44:00.120 --> 02:44:03.319 these kinds of post Marxist types who do like talk 2431 02:44:03.399 --> 02:44:07.840 about you know, social justice within globalism. I mean, yeah, 2432 02:44:07.920 --> 02:44:10.760 obviously I don't like have common cause with those guys, 2433 02:44:11.319 --> 02:44:15.200 but they're really the only like intelligent aspect of the left. 2434 02:44:15.280 --> 02:44:17.520 And I think those guys are making a comeback because 2435 02:44:17.520 --> 02:44:20.959 everybody hates the fucking regime and like literally everybody hates liberals, 2436 02:44:21.159 --> 02:44:23.680 like everybody fucking hates liberals and things. They're like awful 2437 02:44:23.719 --> 02:44:27.639 pieces of shit, you know. That's why, like I said, 2438 02:44:27.760 --> 02:44:29.520 like people, I mean, he'll throw shite on me all 2439 02:44:29.520 --> 02:44:31.159 the time, and I don't care, like I'm not here 2440 02:44:31.200 --> 02:44:34.920 to make friends and I'm used to it. But you know, 2441 02:44:35.079 --> 02:44:38.520 the uh they get mad at me, whether it's because 2442 02:44:38.840 --> 02:44:41.680 you know, I got respect for Moslims and view them 2443 02:44:41.719 --> 02:44:44.319 as like an essential part of the new resistance. Or 2444 02:44:44.360 --> 02:44:46.959 they get mad at me for like retweeting like Jackson 2445 02:44:47.079 --> 02:44:52.040 Hinkle or something. But it's like they don't understand part 2446 02:44:52.079 --> 02:44:56.959 of bringing down the regime and discrediting it is like 2447 02:44:57.079 --> 02:44:59.600 pointing out not just how morally bankrupt it is, but 2448 02:44:59.719 --> 02:45:03.280 how like staggering like ignorant it is. And it's acolytes 2449 02:45:03.319 --> 02:45:07.479 are you know? And if there's if there's a serious 2450 02:45:07.639 --> 02:45:11.639 left wing with revolutionary ambitions, that's not a bunch of 2451 02:45:11.719 --> 02:45:14.799 degenerate natural slaves, Like that's that's a good thing, man, 2452 02:45:14.920 --> 02:45:16.920 Like how is that bad? You know, like you got 2453 02:45:16.959 --> 02:45:19.399 people can't like take their like personal feelings out of stuff. 2454 02:45:19.440 --> 02:45:21.280 It's pathetic. It's like talking to a bunch of like 2455 02:45:21.879 --> 02:45:23.719 it's like talking to about a little kids or like 2456 02:45:24.159 --> 02:45:30.760 modeling old women or something. But the but that's you know, 2457 02:45:30.840 --> 02:45:35.879 and that's also why you know again the like I said, 2458 02:45:36.000 --> 02:45:38.680 we started out like that that dude I'm not gonna name, 2459 02:45:39.879 --> 02:45:44.200 you know, acting like uh, I was dropping cap when 2460 02:45:44.200 --> 02:45:49.120 I was saying, like, you know, the it's as nine, 2461 02:45:50.840 --> 02:45:56.760 you know, to arrange force structure or to conceptualize grant 2462 02:45:56.799 --> 02:45:59.840 strategy in like twentieth century terms, you know, like the 2463 02:46:01.520 --> 02:46:04.040 like like twentieth century wars can never happen again. That's 2464 02:46:04.079 --> 02:46:06.840 never going to happen again. You know, it's not gonna 2465 02:46:06.879 --> 02:46:10.280 happen again in a thousand years, you know, like that 2466 02:46:12.440 --> 02:46:16.600 that the end of the uh the uh the changing 2467 02:46:17.159 --> 02:46:20.799 like like everything these days is changing, like I you know, 2468 02:46:20.879 --> 02:46:23.239 like I mean the point before about like just today 2469 02:46:23.280 --> 02:46:24.840 I was talking to some of the fellas about like 2470 02:46:24.920 --> 02:46:29.079 public education is dying and nobody believes anymore. Like those 2471 02:46:29.159 --> 02:46:32.600 law enforcement like a couple of months back, they're like 2472 02:46:32.639 --> 02:46:36.079 I see in Chicago now, like I said, even you know, 2473 02:46:36.239 --> 02:46:39.479 like like policing is gonna be privatized. It's you know 2474 02:46:39.559 --> 02:46:41.680 in the South, Like I mean you're in I'm sure 2475 02:46:41.719 --> 02:46:43.879 you see this, you know how Like they're still trying 2476 02:46:43.879 --> 02:46:46.079 to fight the run drugs like it's nineteen eighty two 2477 02:46:46.280 --> 02:46:50.319 or something. And like there was this ridiculous press conference 2478 02:46:50.399 --> 02:46:54.559 and they like the Tennessee Threau of Investigation they held 2479 02:46:54.600 --> 02:46:59.600 this like press conference. It was them Homeland Security atf FBI. 2480 02:47:01.280 --> 02:47:04.440 There's this whole mass investigation to literally bust these like 2481 02:47:04.639 --> 02:47:08.600 two like outlaw bikers like sligging meth and they're like 2482 02:47:08.959 --> 02:47:11.760 we've were taking drugs off the street. And the comments 2483 02:47:11.799 --> 02:47:14.520 were like you people are idiots, you know, they're like 2484 02:47:14.559 --> 02:47:16.079 what what do you think this is? You know, it's 2485 02:47:16.159 --> 02:47:19.280 like like there wasn't like a single positive comment, man, 2486 02:47:20.200 --> 02:47:22.520 And it's like this is like a time warf. It's 2487 02:47:22.559 --> 02:47:24.760 like what the fuck are these people doing? You know, 2488 02:47:24.959 --> 02:47:27.680 like nobody believes in that garbage anymore. Now now you 2489 02:47:27.760 --> 02:47:31.920 got homeland security like shaken down, like trailer park meth heads. Really, 2490 02:47:32.760 --> 02:47:36.040 you know, like that's like that's pathetic, man. You know, 2491 02:47:36.120 --> 02:47:42.920 this whole apparatus, the people sustaining it, they're these like 2492 02:47:43.000 --> 02:47:46.719 increasingly aged parasites who can't like adapt to the twenty 2493 02:47:46.760 --> 02:47:49.440 first century, you know. And that's one of the things 2494 02:47:49.520 --> 02:47:52.479 that swept Trump into power. It's the kind of stuff 2495 02:47:52.559 --> 02:47:56.479 hobsbamb and Franklin, the Marxist we're talking about, Like like 2496 02:47:56.760 --> 02:47:59.479 they the way they would have viewed Trump is like 2497 02:48:00.600 --> 02:48:02.360 you know this, They wouldn't viewed him a some like 2498 02:48:02.479 --> 02:48:04.559 arch reaction area. They would have been like, well that 2499 02:48:04.680 --> 02:48:06.680 this guy is basically a con man. But he's saying 2500 02:48:06.680 --> 02:48:10.000 he's gonna like sweep away these obsolescent aspects of of 2501 02:48:10.239 --> 02:48:14.079 of state that people like don't think serves their interests anymore. 2502 02:48:14.920 --> 02:48:16.840 And that and that's why a lot of people voted 2503 02:48:16.840 --> 02:48:19.040 for Trump. It's not I mean, yeah, there's like people 2504 02:48:19.040 --> 02:48:23.120 who just like love Trump. There's people who you know, 2505 02:48:23.360 --> 02:48:26.559 like uh, who would have voted for RFK Junior, who 2506 02:48:26.600 --> 02:48:29.399 are just like protest voters, but like your average like 2507 02:48:29.520 --> 02:48:34.079 man or lady, like it's not particularly politically sophisticated or inclined. 2508 02:48:34.159 --> 02:48:38.440 Like they voted for Trump because their instincts are basically 2509 02:48:38.600 --> 02:48:40.760 sound and they're like what what what the hell is 2510 02:48:40.760 --> 02:48:43.559 going on here? Like we they'll put together that's a 2511 02:48:43.639 --> 02:48:47.120 regime they live under. It's like this twentieth century obsolete structure. 2512 02:48:47.920 --> 02:48:49.920 They don't tink a out on those turns, and they realize, 2513 02:48:50.000 --> 02:48:52.159 like this is like a zombie regime, like it doesn't 2514 02:48:52.200 --> 02:48:57.360 make sense anymore, like why you know, like it's it's 2515 02:48:59.360 --> 02:49:03.079 and then you know, it's, uh, it's really interesting to 2516 02:49:03.120 --> 02:49:05.360 see this develop in real time, man, you know. And 2517 02:49:05.479 --> 02:49:09.520 that's why one of the things like part of my 2518 02:49:09.639 --> 02:49:12.600 vetting process, the people who I kind of take on 2519 02:49:12.719 --> 02:49:17.000 as allies. I mean, that's a complicated process. I can't 2520 02:49:17.040 --> 02:49:19.600 really break it down into like criteria. But one thing 2521 02:49:19.639 --> 02:49:21.920 that's essential was like if like we do not want 2522 02:49:22.000 --> 02:49:24.079 reaction areas, we do not want people who think the 2523 02:49:24.159 --> 02:49:26.479 good old days were dope, or that we need to 2524 02:49:26.559 --> 02:49:29.639 like turn back time or that, or people who think 2525 02:49:29.639 --> 02:49:33.680 that like n Segue is like making things like where 2526 02:49:33.719 --> 02:49:36.479 we take over the government and can like manage its puireaucers. 2527 02:49:36.600 --> 02:49:39.959 It's like people like that are not with the program. 2528 02:49:40.440 --> 02:49:42.319 And I mean now that not only is that like 2529 02:49:42.399 --> 02:49:45.239 not at all what we're about, but that's that's got 2530 02:49:45.319 --> 02:49:48.520 nothing to do with the trajectory of history and stuff 2531 02:49:48.600 --> 02:49:53.479 like that. I don't mean to be I don't mean 2532 02:49:53.520 --> 02:49:55.440 to like abrogate this, but I really don't feel good. 2533 02:49:55.520 --> 02:49:58.920 So if we could, like if we could, if we 2534 02:49:58.959 --> 02:50:01.559 could wrap it up, that'd be And if you want to, 2535 02:50:01.680 --> 02:50:03.879 if you want to do another episode because this wasn't 2536 02:50:04.079 --> 02:50:07.280 up to snuff, we can absolutely do that. No. 2537 02:50:07.520 --> 02:50:10.760 I appreciated the conversation at the ending because I think 2538 02:50:10.840 --> 02:50:13.639 that's a conversation that people on the right need to hear. 2539 02:50:14.520 --> 02:50:14.559 That. 2540 02:50:15.120 --> 02:50:17.959 Yeah, I think there's too much of a jump towards 2541 02:50:18.920 --> 02:50:22.440 capitalism solves everything, you know, And I've been reading some 2542 02:50:22.559 --> 02:50:26.360 of List's letters lately, and it's really opening up my 2543 02:50:26.440 --> 02:50:36.239 eyes to just how damaging the especially the overseas, the globalism, 2544 02:50:37.280 --> 02:50:41.959 just what it does to you know, the vult and oh. 2545 02:50:41.959 --> 02:50:44.879 Yeah, what's also why it's crazy these people with like 2546 02:50:45.000 --> 02:50:47.479 think they hate Maslims for no reason because some like 2547 02:50:47.639 --> 02:50:50.000 Zionists on TV told them to, or because they think 2548 02:50:50.040 --> 02:50:53.760 that because they think that like some like shitbig immigrants 2549 02:50:53.760 --> 02:50:55.559 who did something to do to them is like Islam. 2550 02:50:55.719 --> 02:50:57.760 It's like, man, you want to know, like darl Islam 2551 02:50:57.799 --> 02:51:01.239 has been getting crushed man by globalism for decades. I mean, 2552 02:51:01.319 --> 02:51:02.920 like they're on the front lines of this shit. Like 2553 02:51:02.959 --> 02:51:04.559 what's happening to them is as bad as what was 2554 02:51:04.559 --> 02:51:06.959 done to Europe. Like you're you think that's cool, Like 2555 02:51:07.079 --> 02:51:09.360 these guys you're ops because they're like fighting back against 2556 02:51:09.399 --> 02:51:11.959 that shit. It's like, get the fuck out of here. 2557 02:51:12.159 --> 02:51:14.639 I mean people actually think that way, are my ops? 2558 02:51:14.920 --> 02:51:18.959 You know, Like it's yeah, yeah, but it's also too 2559 02:51:19.079 --> 02:51:25.079 like they it's probat of internalizing like enemy conceptual vocabulary, 2560 02:51:25.799 --> 02:51:30.120 like people who they they just like mirror like that 2561 02:51:30.239 --> 02:51:32.920 they use terms like racist or like they think like, oh, 2562 02:51:33.000 --> 02:51:35.479 I'm a capitalist because that's who my ops like say 2563 02:51:35.559 --> 02:51:38.799 I am. It's like, so you define yourself, I will 2564 02:51:38.879 --> 02:51:41.479 like somebody like Missus Harris or Joe Biden says, or 2565 02:51:41.639 --> 02:51:44.559 like what some like idiot whet professor says like, I 2566 02:51:45.639 --> 02:51:48.000 I mean, how basic are you? You know? I don't 2567 02:51:48.079 --> 02:51:49.799 use the kind of terms because they again we're talking 2568 02:51:49.799 --> 02:51:53.879 about people like Osbam. I kind of have to use 2569 02:51:53.920 --> 02:51:57.680 a shorthand you know, it's like, but I don't, there's 2570 02:51:57.760 --> 02:52:04.000 not there's not really I'm not like a Kazinski guy. 2571 02:52:04.040 --> 02:52:05.680 I like a lot of like I know, a lot 2572 02:52:05.719 --> 02:52:08.639 of like disient type dudes really like head k. I mean, 2573 02:52:08.639 --> 02:52:10.360 there's nothing wrong with like being into him. 2574 02:52:11.200 --> 02:52:14.120 I've cited him extensively. 2575 02:52:14.159 --> 02:52:17.600 I've read about Yeah, but what you called industrial society, 2576 02:52:17.799 --> 02:52:20.920 that's a lot more accurate, you know, like. 2577 02:52:23.399 --> 02:52:26.719 And industrial people think that that book. People think that 2578 02:52:26.840 --> 02:52:29.319 book is like I have a friend who says, oh, 2579 02:52:29.440 --> 02:52:31.920 you can take an al Gore book and hold it 2580 02:52:32.079 --> 02:52:34.079 right up next to it and it's the same exact thing. 2581 02:52:34.319 --> 02:52:36.879 It's like, No, he's writing about the human condition. He's right, 2582 02:52:37.280 --> 02:52:41.959 what you know, what the what the industrial revolution did 2583 02:52:42.079 --> 02:52:43.319 to the human condition. 2584 02:52:43.280 --> 02:52:47.200 Is And I read outdoor, No, that's fucking retarded. Well, 2585 02:52:47.239 --> 02:52:48.920 I mean, these guys are just like say things like 2586 02:52:48.920 --> 02:52:50.719 they don't I guarantee these guys like never read a 2587 02:52:50.799 --> 02:52:55.079 book except maybe like some fucking airport paperback. But I no, 2588 02:52:55.200 --> 02:53:00.920 I remember when the Manifesto dropped in ninety ninety six. 2589 02:53:01.639 --> 02:53:02.879 I think it was. I think it was like late 2590 02:53:02.920 --> 02:53:04.319 summer ninety five, but like when. 2591 02:53:04.239 --> 02:53:06.920 It ran in that page summer late summer ninety Yeah. 2592 02:53:07.000 --> 02:53:09.319 Yeah, when I ran in the papers, like I made 2593 02:53:09.360 --> 02:53:11.719 sure like I I read it, you know, and it 2594 02:53:11.840 --> 02:53:15.840 was it was, Uh, it was insightful stuff. I mean, 2595 02:53:15.879 --> 02:53:18.200 he's got some blind spots, like especially a lot of 2596 02:53:18.239 --> 02:53:20.319 like Mas Samon types do like a lot of those 2597 02:53:20.319 --> 02:53:24.200 guys don't really fully grasp like politics. But uh, the 2598 02:53:24.239 --> 02:53:27.680 stuff when when he was talking about technological development and 2599 02:53:27.760 --> 02:53:30.920 the impact of production and labor and like how man 2600 02:53:31.200 --> 02:53:34.719 like individually and collectively interfaces with that, that was pretty 2601 02:53:35.159 --> 02:53:37.360 That was that was pretty insightful. And like I said, 2602 02:53:38.200 --> 02:53:41.079 the term industrial society, that that there's a lot more 2603 02:53:41.159 --> 02:53:45.239 meaningful than capitalism, you know, and it's and obviously too 2604 02:53:45.360 --> 02:53:48.799 like a terms inherently reduction. It's like like the capitalist 2605 02:53:48.959 --> 02:53:51.719 is everything he does. It's just like stack up capital 2606 02:53:51.840 --> 02:53:53.719 and like assets like that's not that's not the way 2607 02:53:53.719 --> 02:53:56.520 people think. Like even some guy in Wall Street who's like, 2608 02:53:56.639 --> 02:53:58.559 you know, kind of a stereotypical walk her Huster, that's 2609 02:53:58.600 --> 02:54:01.959 not like the way he thinks. Like he's you know, 2610 02:54:02.120 --> 02:54:05.399 he and and Bay. It's the reason he, Like the 2611 02:54:05.440 --> 02:54:07.799 reason a guy like that his world is defined by 2612 02:54:07.920 --> 02:54:10.879 money is because that's like power activity in his world. 2613 02:54:11.159 --> 02:54:13.000 And that's like a way, that's a way he can 2614 02:54:13.120 --> 02:54:17.799 like engage in power activity congruous like his discrete capabilities 2615 02:54:17.879 --> 02:54:21.040 and and like psychology. It's not like it's not like 2616 02:54:21.200 --> 02:54:23.760 money is like this ending itself to everybody like in 2617 02:54:23.840 --> 02:54:27.479 the capitalist system. But I mean that's these these things 2618 02:54:27.520 --> 02:54:30.040 are important. But yeah, like again, man, like I said, 2619 02:54:30.120 --> 02:54:31.719 sorry if this was not the par but I this 2620 02:54:32.120 --> 02:54:33.760 it's been. I'm not trying to be a martyr. But 2621 02:54:34.040 --> 02:54:37.360 just because like I do have responsibility to people, I 2622 02:54:38.280 --> 02:54:40.879 thinks this week has not been great in terms of. 2623 02:54:41.280 --> 02:54:43.719 I think people. I think people like this episode more 2624 02:54:43.799 --> 02:54:44.239 than you think. 2625 02:54:44.719 --> 02:54:45.959 Okay, that makes me happy. 2626 02:54:46.159 --> 02:54:48.719 Uh do do plugs real quick? 2627 02:54:49.479 --> 02:54:54.920 Yeah? Man? As always, Uh, try and direct people to 2628 02:54:55.000 --> 02:54:59.239 my website. It's Thomas seven seven seven dot com. It's 2629 02:54:59.360 --> 02:55:02.399 number seven and h O a s seven seven seven 2630 02:55:02.440 --> 02:55:04.719 dot com. I'm gonna tweak that some man. I was 2631 02:55:04.719 --> 02:55:06.920 gonna trying on top of it this week, but it 2632 02:55:07.079 --> 02:55:09.639 but what it's it's dope, the kid who put it together. 2633 02:55:09.799 --> 02:55:14.600 He's great. And anytime I drop anything new, it pops 2634 02:55:14.680 --> 02:55:17.079 up there on like the feed. So that's like a 2635 02:55:17.120 --> 02:55:19.200 good way to keep up with stuff if you like 2636 02:55:19.319 --> 02:55:25.399 the stuff I do. I'm on social media at Capital 2637 02:55:25.559 --> 02:55:29.200 r e A L underscore number seven h o A 2638 02:55:29.360 --> 02:55:33.440 s seven seven seven. The best place to find me 2639 02:55:33.680 --> 02:55:39.280 is substack. That's from my pod is and stuff. It's 2640 02:55:39.399 --> 02:55:44.360 uh real Thomas seven seven seven at subsec dot com. 2641 02:55:44.920 --> 02:55:50.520 And yeah, if in the description, if you could include 2642 02:55:50.639 --> 02:55:53.840 uh the Merse wings too. You know, I'm like a 2643 02:55:53.920 --> 02:55:58.440 big like T shirt and clothes and merse guy, and 2644 02:55:58.680 --> 02:56:02.319 uh that's actually been selling pretty well, which makes me 2645 02:56:02.479 --> 02:56:06.520 very happy. But yeah, that's that's what I've got. 2646 02:56:07.639 --> 02:56:09.360 I'll take care of that for you, all right, Thank 2647 02:56:09.399 --> 02:56:10.280 you appreciate it. 2648 02:56:10.760 --> 02:56:11.760 Yeah, likewise, man,