Speaker 1: This is a studio both and production. As you know,
Speaker 1: we are celebrating my tenth year in podcasting and we're
Speaker 1: capping that celebration off with a three day event here
Speaker 1: in the Berkshires over the weekend of September twenty fifth.
Speaker 1: There will be studio sessions, live shows, a Bravo town hall,
Speaker 1: Berkshire activities like foraging, wine tasting, museum visits and more,
Speaker 1: and tons of special guests. Will do the Karen and
Speaker 1: Ellen Letters Live starring Amanda Jacobson from Wine and Crime,
Speaker 1: Tawny plattis famous renowned voice actress, and Chris Brayton from
Speaker 1: the More Gooder Than podcast. I'll be doing a very special,
Speaker 1: first time ever live show of the Pact with special
Speaker 1: guest Patrick Hines from True Crime Obsessed. We'll do a
Speaker 1: panel discussion on Unsafe Spaces featuring me, Kaz, Charlie Wirrel
Speaker 1: from Crime Lines, and Justin and Aaron from Generation Why.
Speaker 1: There will even be a live episode of Our Americana
Speaker 1: and a very cool Playlist by TCB episode featuring me
Speaker 1: and the entire research team. Guests, we'll get to check
Speaker 1: out my new speakeasy, the green Room, tour the studio
Speaker 1: and get elbow deep in the research process. This is
Speaker 1: a once in a lifetime event where you'll get to
Speaker 1: enjoy the berkshers, share fun activities with the podcast hosts
Speaker 1: you love the most, and really dig into podcasting and
Speaker 1: all the shows I have produced along with my friends.
Speaker 1: Book your tickets today by clicking the link in the
Speaker 1: show notes. And if that doesn't work for you, why
Speaker 1: don't you think about? If not now when? For example,
Speaker 1: we are going to the Galapagos Islands January eleventh through seventeenth.
Speaker 1: Haven't you always wanted to go? And if not now,
Speaker 1: when will you go? And wouldn't you go during the
Speaker 1: winter here in the States to escape to the warmth
Speaker 1: with like minded new friends who love true crime bullshit
Speaker 1: as much as you do, but also love the experience
Speaker 1: of travel, seeing animals and getting away from it all.
Speaker 1: These Trova trips have made me lifelong friends. They are
Speaker 1: such a great way to meet new people, get out
Speaker 1: of your world and shake things up. And like I said,
Speaker 1: if you're not going to go to the Galopagos now,
Speaker 1: will you ever? Book your trip today by clicking the
Speaker 1: link in the show notes, And now here's the show.
Speaker 1: Listening to the first episode of True crime bullshit is
Speaker 1: an odd and often emotional experience for me. There was
Speaker 1: a lot going on in my life at the time,
Speaker 1: a lot that heavily impacted my work on the show
Speaker 1: and what the first episode would eventually become. Hell, who
Speaker 1: I would eventually become. I guess as a whole, I'm
Speaker 1: neither disappointed with nor proud of the episode. I think
Speaker 1: it asked some very tough and important questions, perhaps questions
Speaker 1: that people weren't really willing to challenge themselves with at
Speaker 1: the time, thus the very strong pushback I got. I
Speaker 1: think in the following ten years are feelings surrounding and
Speaker 1: the complexities of true crime have changed and become much
Speaker 1: more nuanced. But back in twenty eighteen, people recoiled at
Speaker 1: me asking whether Keys deserved empathy. People were incensed that
Speaker 1: I was deliberately referring to Keys as Izzy, the name
Speaker 1: he went by and was referred to, and people were
Speaker 1: annoyed that I was asking about the general public's interest
Speaker 1: in and commercialization of true crime, despite the fact that
Speaker 1: they were both things I was explicitly doing at the
Speaker 1: time and continue to. There was, also, of course, the
Speaker 1: fact that I was openly gay and discussed being assaulted,
Speaker 1: albeit very briefly. On the podcast. People made opportunities of
Speaker 1: this to unleash their most vile homophobia onto me in emails, comments,
Speaker 1: and podcast reviews. I was accused of being in love
Speaker 1: with and or wanting to fuck Israel Keys, a dead
Speaker 1: serial killer. I was told I was too much of
Speaker 1: a pussy to truly tell this story. The word faggot,
Speaker 1: very frequently misspelled, came up a lot on social media
Speaker 1: and in my email. But digging so deep into what
Speaker 1: true crime was and being so open about who I
Speaker 1: was were never part of the original outline of the show.
Speaker 1: When I made the decision to tell the Key story
Speaker 1: back in twenty sixteen, it was going to be exactly
Speaker 1: that a retelling. But then life made some unexpected changes
Speaker 1: to me and my approach. In mid twenty sixteen, I
Speaker 1: started pouring myself into the Keys case. I was spending
Speaker 1: about ten hours a day every day listening and re
Speaker 1: listening to his FBI interviews. When I wasn't doing that,
Speaker 1: I was on Namous in the Charlie Project for hours
Speaker 1: at a time. I was taking notes, making maps, reading
Speaker 1: about psychopathy and profiling and crime. We'd moved to Brooklyn,
Speaker 1: in October of twenty fifteen, and despite trying my hardest,
Speaker 1: I could never really make a life for myself there.
Speaker 1: What I'd learned years later in Therapy Betterhelp dot Com
Speaker 1: slash TCB was that New York City was essentially a
Speaker 1: powder keg for my CPTSD. Anytime I left our bedstae apartment,
Speaker 1: I was overcome by, sometimes even paralyzing anxiety. I started
Speaker 1: developing nervous tics, weird fixations on the zippers of my coats,
Speaker 1: picking at my fingernails, being hypervigilant when out in public.
Speaker 1: I was nervous all the time. So I stayed in
Speaker 1: and I worked on the podcast, and so the majority
Speaker 1: of my waking hours were spent with Israel Keys in
Speaker 1: his interviews, dissecting his words, searching for answers, looking for
Speaker 1: potential victims, trying to make connections day in and day out,
Speaker 1: often ten to fourteen hours a day, every day. And
Speaker 1: then I had a mental health emergency. I woke up
Speaker 1: in a hospital bed at Woodhall Hospital, and upon waking up,
Speaker 1: was almost immediately rushed to the psychiatric ward for what
Speaker 1: would be a twenty four hour hold. Of course, no
Speaker 1: one would tell me that at the time I didn't
Speaker 1: know where I was being taken or that I'd be
Speaker 1: there for the next twenty four hours. Those twenty four
Speaker 1: hours would easily become the worst twenty four hours of
Speaker 1: my life. The psych ward at Woodhall is essentially two
Speaker 1: giant rooms, one that is mostly empty and another with
Speaker 1: a TV and about ten beds. There were probably twenty
Speaker 1: or so other patients in there at the time, and
Speaker 1: there was nowhere to clean yourself, nothing to brush your
Speaker 1: teeth with. Bathroom use was observed, and the staff didn't
Speaker 1: talk to you other than a five minute meeting with
Speaker 1: a psychologist. On the television for the duration of my
Speaker 1: stay was a blind Spot marathon. Yes, they were blaring
Speaker 1: a psychological crime thriller in the psych ward. I took
Speaker 1: the soul available bed and waited, still not knowing how
Speaker 1: long I'd be there or even why I was there.
Speaker 1: I worried that at some point someone would try to
Speaker 1: take that bed from me. I closed my eyes, tried
Speaker 1: to block out the TV, and just listened to everything
Speaker 1: else happening around me. Out of both fear and self preservation,
Speaker 1: no one in the facility was allowed to take outside medication,
Speaker 1: and what that resulted in the absolute worst part of
Speaker 1: those twenty four hours was listening to people arrive in coherence.
Speaker 1: Although often coherent distress slowly devolve into madness, psychosis, paranoia.
Speaker 1: People who arrived lucid at hour one or two were screaming, crying,
Speaker 1: fighting by hour four or five. And this happened over
Speaker 1: and over again. I got out of my bed exactly
Speaker 1: three time, once to go to the bathroom, once to
Speaker 1: eat a cheese sandwich. I hate cheese, but knew if
Speaker 1: I did anything that could be perceived as abnormal or
Speaker 1: unhealthy that it would likely mean I'd have to spend
Speaker 1: even more time there. And then finally, when Andrew was
Speaker 1: given clearance to visit, I will never for the rest
Speaker 1: of my life forget how distressed and upset he looked.
Speaker 2: That night.
Speaker 1: I spent twenty four hours with an intimate view of
Speaker 1: both mental distress and our mental health system, specifically how
Speaker 1: broken it is. And when I finally got to leave
Speaker 1: at about eleven a m. The following morning, I left
Speaker 1: more shell shocked and distressed than I was when I entered.
Speaker 1: I stayed in bed for the next two days, and
Speaker 1: we never told anyone other than very close family. In fact,
Speaker 1: this is the very first time I'm publicly speaking about it,
Speaker 1: and it's the first time in years I've spoken about
Speaker 1: it at all. When I eventually got out of bed,
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time evaluating my life, my choices,
Speaker 1: my relationships, my priorities. I investigated how I could exist
Speaker 1: and thrive. I spent hours picking apart my past and
Speaker 1: all the decisions and roads that got me to where
Speaker 1: I was. I tried desperately to come to terms with
Speaker 1: how the me that I knew could be the me
Speaker 1: that ended up in that place. And when I started
Speaker 1: to get back to work on the podcast, I had
Speaker 1: some really tough questions for myself. How do I straddle
Speaker 1: the dichoticmy of my obsession as both a path toward
Speaker 1: personal fulfillment and one of self harm? Why was I
Speaker 1: Why are we so willing to let darkness in? How
Speaker 1: can I do this thing that simultaneously makes me so
Speaker 1: happy and so anxious? And that's how episode one became
Speaker 1: what it is. I needed to tell this story that
Speaker 1: I'd spent so much time with Gamble my mental health,
Speaker 1: for the work I'd invested myself in, but I also
Speaker 1: needed to understand and discuss our obsession with darkness. I
Speaker 1: needed to know what true crime was doing to us
Speaker 1: individually and writ large. I also knew that I needed
Speaker 1: to live with radical honesty and transparency. I couldn't hold
Speaker 1: things in anymore for fear of burdening or discomforting others.
Speaker 1: I couldn't live in shame anymore. I had to articulate
Speaker 1: my suffering in a way that emancipated me and inspired
Speaker 1: and empowered others. Less than a year later, I pressed
Speaker 1: publish on that first episode of True Crime. Bullshit. It
Speaker 1: belonged to the world. Now to a lesser extent, so
Speaker 1: did I, for better and worse, and now so does this.
Speaker 1: I am turning forty five this year, which is harder
Speaker 1: to say than it is to feel, because at this
Speaker 1: age you feel everything. You spend all day taking care
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Speaker 3: My concern the problem is nowadays, the more stuff my
Speaker 3: name is attached to, the more likely it is that
Speaker 3: somebody's going to try to do some kind of stupid
Speaker 3: frickin' TV special or you know, you know how it
Speaker 3: is nowadays like the oldest true crime bullshit that people
Speaker 3: are obsessed with.
Speaker 1: This is true crime bullshit. I'm your host, Josh Hallmark,
Speaker 1: and this is a serialized story of Israel Keys. It
Speaker 1: started when I was a kid, you see, I grew
Speaker 1: up in the San Francisco Bay area in the nineteen eighties,
Speaker 1: on the heels of the Zodiac, the massacre at Jonestown,
Speaker 1: the murderers of Leonard Lake and Charles Ing, back when
Speaker 1: unsolved mysteries and America's most wanted were becoming primetime staples.
Speaker 1: I guess you could say true crime has always been
Speaker 1: a cultural touch point for my generation. Of course, up
Speaker 1: until recently it was mostly only talked about with hushed
Speaker 1: tones in the backs of bars with your weird friends.
Speaker 1: And then podcasts and investigation discovery created a community. Who
Speaker 1: killed Hayman Lee? And what happened to Mora Murray became
Speaker 1: water cooler debates, and over time we all became more
Speaker 1: and more comfortable casually talking about murder. That's actually where
Speaker 1: I first heard about Israel Keys at the office coffeemaker.
Speaker 1: I had just started a new job in Seattle and
Speaker 1: quickly went about identifying my own weird murder friend. I
Speaker 1: don't exactly remember how we came out to each other,
Speaker 1: but we soon found ourselves deconstructing episodes of disappeared each
Speaker 1: Tuesday morning over our cubicle walls. We were both fascinated
Speaker 1: by disappearances, how someone could just vanish. We're trained to
Speaker 1: crave answers and tidy conclusions, and I think that's why
Speaker 1: these cases can so easily become obsessions. We need to
Speaker 1: know what happened. And that's how she knew I'd be
Speaker 1: just as terrified of Israel as she was. He'd just
Speaker 1: been arrested, and while his identity had been concealed from
Speaker 1: most of the world, his roots in Seattle led to
Speaker 1: enough local chatter that a story made his way to
Speaker 1: our desks. In an attempt to get information about his
Speaker 1: other crimes, the FBI made a deal with Israel that
Speaker 1: they wouldn't release his name to the media as long
Speaker 1: as he continued to work with them. We'll get into
Speaker 1: this deal more in futureppes. But if you hadn't heard
Speaker 1: of him before now, well this is probably why very
Speaker 1: little is actually known about Israel's crimes. As we'll explore,
Speaker 1: he was incredibly meticulous in concealing his activities and avoiding
Speaker 1: being caught. Essentially, we knew he was a serial killer
Speaker 1: with victims all across the country who killed it random.
Speaker 1: He had no victim profile. Israel contradicted a lot of
Speaker 1: what we know about serial killers, mostly because he had
Speaker 1: studied them.
Speaker 3: So I guess I identify most or my favorite, if
Speaker 3: you have to put it that way, would be the
Speaker 3: ones that I identify most with. Yeah, that's a fair
Speaker 3: way to say it. I don't know, maybe just going
Speaker 3: off of what I read Ted Bundy. Maybe I don't
Speaker 3: know because I don't have a lot of respect for
Speaker 3: someone line because because of the way they lived.
Speaker 2: I guess, I don't know. Did you like reading about
Speaker 2: all of them?
Speaker 4: But yeah, identify when you start reading about them, when
Speaker 4: did you realize I mean, did you start reading about
Speaker 4: them because you were curious about you or did you
Speaker 4: was it a study guide sort of speak.
Speaker 2: I mean that might be a weird question too. Did
Speaker 2: you learn things from to do not do?
Speaker 4: Or was it just curiosity of do you have anything
Speaker 4: in common with them?
Speaker 2: Is that you were looking for?
Speaker 3: If you think, Well, the first book I read was
Speaker 3: I think it was called mind Hunter, and it was
Speaker 3: written by an FBI profiler.
Speaker 2: John Douglass.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I read that years and years ago, probably
Speaker 3: when I was fifteen or sixteen, and I was, yes,
Speaker 3: somewhat disturbed by it, just because, Uh, I don't know,
Speaker 3: It's always been that way.
Speaker 2: It's always.
Speaker 3: Felt like I was kind of reading about myself in
Speaker 3: a lot of those.
Speaker 2: Books, most really interesting names. It's all interesting reading. Why
Speaker 2: didn't you like b TK? He was a hag number
Speaker 2: of years he seemed to get away. He got away
Speaker 2: with him for a long time. That was the most disappointing.
Speaker 3: Thing about him is that he never had to get caught, and.
Speaker 2: He just got bored so that he was too much.
Speaker 3: He was too soft in his old age to actually
Speaker 3: go out and do anything against me. He decided to
Speaker 3: go the publicity you're oute without actually.
Speaker 2: Doing anything again, That's what was disappointing. He was also
Speaker 2: pretty unusual in that he that he was able to stop.
Speaker 3: Plus I saw the live prison interview, and my impression
Speaker 3: of him.
Speaker 2: His personality is that.
Speaker 3: He was actually sorry, yeah, for the things that he
Speaker 3: had done younger, kind of like repented or thought he
Speaker 3: was trying.
Speaker 2: Repenting of his waist kind of thing. And I don't
Speaker 2: know I think it was for real, because I honestly,
Speaker 2: I don't think if it was, I don't think.
Speaker 3: If he really didn't believe that he was repenting of
Speaker 3: his sins, I don't think he ever would have stopped.
Speaker 5: Because he stopped for like twenty years.
Speaker 2: I don't know, my mind, that's impossible. But why why
Speaker 2: do you say that? Just because of the way he
Speaker 2: the way he killed people that you know, it's a
Speaker 2: pretty obsessive, compulsive act to kill someone that way. It's
Speaker 2: not it's not like your gang bang or doing a
Speaker 2: drive by or something.
Speaker 1: So Israel learned from their mistakes. He was incredibly controlled.
Speaker 1: He planned his murders well in advance, sometimes even years ahead.
Speaker 1: He had kill kits hidden all the United States, and
Speaker 1: rather than seeking out victims, he let his victims come
Speaker 1: to him. He would travel to remote areas all across
Speaker 1: the country, paying in all cash, flying into airports hundreds
Speaker 1: of miles away from his destination. Also as to leave
Speaker 1: no real trace of where he'd actually been, he tempered
Speaker 1: his urges by robbing banks, burglarizing homes, and committing random arsons.
Speaker 1: That's how he was able to stay so controlled in
Speaker 1: his killings. In fact, the only reason he was caught
Speaker 1: is because he eventually strayed from all that.
Speaker 3: Well, back when I was smart, I would.
Speaker 2: Do it. I would let them come to me. I
Speaker 2: don't understand just a remote area, you know, no.
Speaker 3: Kind of lay to a remote area that's not anywhere
Speaker 3: near where you live, but that other people go to
Speaker 3: as well, you might not get exactly what you're ls,
Speaker 3: not as much to choose from in a manner speaking.
Speaker 5: But there's also no witnesses. Really, there's nobody else around.
Speaker 5: So and then when they when they disappear a lot
Speaker 5: of times, nobody's really.
Speaker 3: Surprised, cause it happens all the time.
Speaker 6: But what I'm trying to take us So, but if
Speaker 6: somebody's camping in a remote spot, someone's gonna know that
Speaker 6: they didn't come home. Right, So, did you have other
Speaker 6: things that you looked for in a pictum.
Speaker 2: No, it was you know, it's just you asking me
Speaker 2: what type of people I would pick.
Speaker 6: Or yeah, what prop or whether there was a weddinarly
Speaker 6: habitype I had preference, but that it wasn't.
Speaker 2: What's the preference? Well, lightweight?
Speaker 7: Is that because of attraction or because of disposal?
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's kind of makes it easier, Okay, but you
Speaker 8: know it's not. It's not a deal breaker.
Speaker 1: The other thing that kept Israel under the radar for
Speaker 1: so long is he was very good at hiding bodies.
Speaker 1: In fact, as of today, only one of his victim's
Speaker 1: remains have ever been recovered, and that recovery only happened
Speaker 1: because Israel guided the FBI to her body. Even in
Speaker 1: multiple cases where he's told the FBI where the bodies are,
Speaker 1: they still haven't been able to recover them. I mentioned
Speaker 1: missing people before, how easy it is to become obsessed
Speaker 1: with missing persons cases. Well, it turns out Israel had
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Speaker 1: slash TCBs. In the FBI files, they found images of
Speaker 1: over forty missing persons on his computers, and a large
Speaker 1: majority of those missing persons can not be attributed to Israel.
Speaker 1: Either they happened during his adolescence or before he was born,
Speaker 1: or they have just been proven not to be him.
Speaker 1: One case in particular Susan Powell, whom we know was
Speaker 1: her husband, And I wonder why Israel would spend so
Speaker 1: much time looking into all these missing persons.
Speaker 9: Well, it certainly could be that he had developed a
Speaker 9: paraphilia or a sexual debiance regarding missing people.
Speaker 1: This is doctor Catherine Ransland, a renowned criminal psychologist best
Speaker 1: known for her work with Dennis Rader, the serial killer,
Speaker 1: better known as bt K. Catherine has studied Israel pretty extensively,
Speaker 1: and just last week appeared on Doctor Oz talking about him.
Speaker 1: We'll be hearing more from Catherine throughout the series.
Speaker 9: I think he was fascinated with it. He wanted to,
Speaker 9: you know, learn the details of it, not necessarily to
Speaker 9: assist what he was doing, so much as to fantasize
Speaker 9: about them and maybe even to imagine himself as being
Speaker 9: the one who was responsible for them missing, even though
Speaker 9: you know, in a number of cases clearly he's not.
Speaker 9: And we do have suspects, you know, very good suspects
Speaker 9: in some of them, like Susan Powell. But I do
Speaker 9: think that maybe there's something in his sexual fantasies that
Speaker 9: is related to missing people, such that he would collect
Speaker 9: these stories. It's kind of like people who are have
Speaker 9: a fascination with car crashes, so they have all leics
Speaker 9: car crash photos. In fact, we know a serial killer,
Speaker 9: Michael Swango, a medical serial killer who who had that
Speaker 9: fascination and he collected all kinds of photographs of car
Speaker 9: crashes from newspapers because that was his fetish. And I
Speaker 9: think I think it's fair to say that Israel Keyes
Speaker 9: had a fetish about missing people, which is why he
Speaker 9: wanted to ensure that his victims didn't get found. That
Speaker 9: fascination is unusual in paraphilias. Is a very unique area
Speaker 9: of study because we have thousands of paraphilias and these
Speaker 9: are things when someone is developing sexually, and especially males,
Speaker 9: they become attached to objects or experiences that become part
Speaker 9: of the arousal mechanism. That can range from anything from
Speaker 9: you know, having a fascination with high heeled shoes to
Speaker 9: reading the Bible to we had one serial killer at
Speaker 9: a fascination with how how sounded when metal hit you know, flesh,
Speaker 9: and so he developed this fetish for train wrecks and
Speaker 9: he would even you know, engineer train wrecks so you
Speaker 9: could sit on the hill and watch them and you know,
Speaker 9: have a ur gasmic type of experience. This sounds very bizarre,
Speaker 9: but it's it's all about what's going on during the
Speaker 9: person's development, and I firmly believe that Israel Keys had
Speaker 9: a fetish for missing people.
Speaker 1: All this is to say that when I first heard
Speaker 1: about Israel that day in the office break room, I
Speaker 1: was immediately fascinated. I set up Google alerts on him
Speaker 1: and waited and waited for seven months. The FBI's first
Speaker 1: press release came over a year after his capture. That's
Speaker 1: how committed they were to the deal they made with him.
Speaker 1: They kept their promise until the day he died. He
Speaker 1: killed himself after he was accidentally issued a razor in prison.
Speaker 1: And we'll get more into that incrediblealy bizarre event in
Speaker 1: a future episode. The FBI's press release reads as follows.
Speaker 10: Deedrefike's Special Agent in charge of the Federal Bureau of
Speaker 10: Investigation for the State of Alaska announced yesterday a timeline
Speaker 10: of events in the Israel Keys investigation to include information
Speaker 10: about possible on self homicides and other crimes. Anyone with
Speaker 10: information concerning Keys is encouraged to contact the FBI at
Speaker 10: one eight hundred call FBI. Based upon the investigation conducted
Speaker 10: following his arrest in March twenty twelve, Israel Keys is
Speaker 10: believed to have committed multiple kidnappings and murders across the
Speaker 10: country between two thousand and one and March twenty twelve.
Speaker 10: Keyes lived in Washington State from two thousand and one
Speaker 10: to March two thousand seven, at which time he moved
Speaker 10: to Alaska. While living in Alaska, Keys traveled extensively while
Speaker 10: working as a general contractor. In a series of interviews
Speaker 10: with law enforcement, Keys described significant planning and preparation for
Speaker 10: his murders, reflecting a meticulous and organized approach to his crimes.
Speaker 10: Keys admitted responsibility for robbing several banks during this time frame,
Speaker 10: two of which investigators have corroborated. Keys used the proceeds
Speaker 10: from his bank robberies to pay for his travel, along
Speaker 10: with money he made as a general contractor. Keys also
Speaker 10: admitted to traveling to various locations to leave supplies he
Speaker 10: planned to use in future crimes. Key stated that he
Speaker 10: buried cases throughout the United States. The FBI recovered two
Speaker 10: caches buried by Keys, one in Eagle River, Alaska, and
Speaker 10: one near Blake Falls Reservoir in New York. The caches
Speaker 10: contained weapons and other items used to dispose of bodies.
Speaker 10: Keys indicated that other caches he buried throughout the US
Speaker 10: contained weapons, money, and items used to dispose of victims.
Speaker 10: Investigators believe Keys did not know any of his victims
Speaker 10: prior to their abductions. He described several remote locations that
Speaker 10: he frequented to look for victims parks, campgrounds, troughheads, cemeteries,
Speaker 10: boating areas, et cetera. Keyes also admitted to frequenting prostitutes
Speaker 10: during his travels, and it is unknown at this time
Speaker 10: if he met any of his victims in this manner.
Speaker 10: Keys indicated the victims are male and female and range
Speaker 10: in age from late teens to the elderly. Keys told
Speaker 10: the investigators his victim's disappearance received little, if any media coverage.
Speaker 10: Investigators believed Keys is responsible for eleven homicides. Key stated
Speaker 10: his murders occurred in less than ten states, but did
Speaker 10: not disclose all of the locations. Keys described crossing into
Speaker 10: multiple states during the abduction, murder, and disposal of a victim.
Speaker 10: It is not unlikely that in some cases Keys abducted
Speaker 10: a victim from one state, transported the victim to another
Speaker 10: state where he or she was murdered, and potentially drove
Speaker 10: the victim to a third state to dispose of the body.
Speaker 10: Keys admitted to burglarizing twenty to thirty homes throughout the
Speaker 10: United States and talked about committing arson as a means
Speaker 10: to cover up a homicide. The following is a timeline
Speaker 10: that articulates the information provided by Keys and known to
Speaker 10: law enforcement about Keys's criminal activities. It also includes travel
Speaker 10: dates and locations that investigators believe Keys may have committed
Speaker 10: a homicide.
Speaker 1: The time line is a lengthy and broad list of
Speaker 1: Israel's travels over a fourteen year period, and will spend
Speaker 1: a lot of time pouring over it. A map of
Speaker 1: these travels has covered my dining room table for the
Speaker 1: past year. I've stared at it over meals and during
Speaker 1: research breaks. I've come to know this map very well,
Speaker 1: a sort of committed it to memory. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: After the press release, the Google alerts were few and
Speaker 1: far between and were mostly a whole lot of nothing.
Speaker 1: As time went on, I couldn't believe there were no updates,
Speaker 1: no bodies recovered, no theories, no witnesses. Much like as victims.
Speaker 1: It was as though the entire case of Israel Keys
Speaker 1: had just disappeared. But I couldn't get it out of
Speaker 1: my mind. And so two and a half years ago
Speaker 1: I decided to create this podcast. I began meticulously studying
Speaker 1: Israel Keys. I became well acquainted with every missing person
Speaker 1: in every place he'd ever been. I studied what I
Speaker 1: could of his childhood, his upbringing, his religious background. I
Speaker 1: submitted as many Freedom of Information Act requests as I
Speaker 1: could afford, and I became more and more obsessed with,
Speaker 1: at the very least, identifying his victims. Here is an
Speaker 1: ugly truth that I want to get out right from
Speaker 1: the start. We will probably never know for certain who
Speaker 1: his victims were. We can come to very informed and
Speaker 1: reasonable conclusions, and we will throughout this series, but without bodies,
Speaker 1: we will never know for sure. And in the almost
Speaker 1: seven years since his arrest, there's only been one. In
Speaker 1: the years that I've been investigating is and working on
Speaker 1: this podcast, my objective has evolved a bit. There have
Speaker 1: been moments that have drastically changed how I look at
Speaker 1: all this. There have been moments that have made me
Speaker 1: severely question the ethics in doing all of this, and
Speaker 1: we'll be exploring this throughout the podcast. True Crime Bullshit
Speaker 1: is as much about true crime in general as it
Speaker 1: is about Israel Keys. Here's a few examples of how
Speaker 1: researching this case has changed my perspective on the genre.
Speaker 1: About a year ago, I came across a post in
Speaker 1: a true crime related Facebook group. Someone had posted that
Speaker 1: their neighbor had been murdered the night before and they
Speaker 1: were watching through their window as the police investigated the scene.
Speaker 1: They would be giving Facebook updates as the case progressed.
Speaker 1: There was something so disturbing about the frenetic excitement of
Speaker 1: the post, how true crime had made actual murder somewhat titillating,
Speaker 1: to the extent that being around it or a part
Speaker 1: of it, was now so provocative and almost admirable, which
Speaker 1: made me question if my investigation into Israel was any different.
Speaker 1: Then there was the slow burn of going through the
Speaker 1: FBI files. There's over two thousand pages, which includes everything
Speaker 1: from chain of custody to warrants and searches, to interviews
Speaker 1: with friends and family, to tip line reports, basically everything
Speaker 1: from the truly mundane to case shattering evidence. In reading
Speaker 1: these files, I came to know everyone involved with the
Speaker 1: case quite well, and the story of Israel Key slowly
Speaker 1: started to include the stories of each of these people.
Speaker 1: The FBI agents, his friends and family, the friends and
Speaker 1: family of his victims and presumed victims, the people calling
Speaker 1: into the tip lines, and all the missing people in
Speaker 1: their families, whether related or not, who came up during
Speaker 1: the investigation. There was so much humanity in all of this,
Speaker 1: and over time I became just as compelled by that
Speaker 1: as I was by the case itself. And as I
Speaker 1: began reaching out to people, I started to wonder if
Speaker 1: it was even fair for me to be dredging up
Speaker 1: these dark and sometimes traumatizing pieces of their histories, of
Speaker 1: their histories, was it even mine to look into? My
Speaker 1: point is, the more time I spent with this case,
Speaker 1: the more it made me question everything I felt and
Speaker 1: thought I knew about true crime and how it affected
Speaker 1: everyone involved, including its observers and consumers. So I reached
Speaker 1: out to some friends who host true crime podcasts, along
Speaker 1: with some of their listeners, to get a sense of
Speaker 1: how this genre impacts us and why we're all so
Speaker 1: captivated by it. We'll be hearing from them throughout the series,
Speaker 1: but this is where we started. When did you develop
Speaker 1: an interest in true crime?
Speaker 11: Ooh early? I am definitely my grandmother's granddaughter. My mom's
Speaker 11: mom always loved like true crime books, and then obviously
Speaker 11: is that kind of genre evolved. She's very much into
Speaker 11: court TV and true crime television. She is in her
Speaker 11: late the ripe age of late eighties, so podcasting is
Speaker 11: not even close to being on her radar. But I
Speaker 11: just feel like this genre has exploded even more with
Speaker 11: the introduction of podcasts, which are such a weirdly intimate
Speaker 11: way to learn about true crime. And then there's all
Speaker 11: these other little communities that you can join, like through
Speaker 11: the podcasting world on social media. So I've been just
Speaker 11: kind of along for the ride as it's developed. I
Speaker 11: definitely got a thirst for it with the first season
Speaker 11: of Cereal, which I know is very much akin to
Speaker 11: what a lot of other people did, but I'm like
Speaker 11: an old school Forensic Files fan, and yeah, true crime
Speaker 11: novels are the jam.
Speaker 12: I think I've always sort of had an interest, at
Speaker 12: least a passing interest in society, the system, trials, and
Speaker 12: serial killers. I used to make dark ambient music back
Speaker 12: in the day when I was a teenager, and I
Speaker 12: would splice in news reports and serial killers talking into
Speaker 12: the music, So from my earliest memory I've had some
Speaker 12: sort of interest in there. But when I started the
Speaker 12: Generation Why, I actually went to jury duty for a
Speaker 12: first degree murder trial, and that's what really I guess
Speaker 12: set me off or opened me up to the idea
Speaker 12: of true crime in a podcast.
Speaker 13: So I think my very first interest was when I
Speaker 13: was really young and my mom used to take me
Speaker 13: to Barnes and Noble and let me pick out books,
Speaker 13: and I found this Jack the Ripper book and I
Speaker 13: was like, Ooh, I'm going to read this. And then
Speaker 13: after that, I think that my real love probably blossomed.
Speaker 13: I'd say three years ago when I was going on
Speaker 13: a cruise and I wanted to do a deep dive
Speaker 13: into that Titanic, and I found an episode that generation
Speaker 13: why I did on the Titanic. Then they did an
Speaker 13: episode on this girl who went missing on a cruise ship,
Speaker 13: and then I kept listening to their catalog and I
Speaker 13: was like, I forgot how much I loved true cried.
Speaker 13: Then I just started listening to more and more podcasts
Speaker 13: and then decided to start my own with a friend.
Speaker 14: As far back as Jonestown and which is what in
Speaker 14: the seventies. That was forty some years ago, and I
Speaker 14: saw I was nine when I got into that, but
Speaker 14: that just just floored me. The pictures, seeing all the bodies,
Speaker 14: it just it just struck a chord with me for
Speaker 14: some reason.
Speaker 15: I think I've always been kind of interested in those
Speaker 15: things that are mysterious. I come from a town where
Speaker 15: there was a very famous murder, so that really piqued
Speaker 15: my interests. I've just always been kind of interested in
Speaker 15: what makes people tick, and it is beyond me uy
Speaker 15: someone would kill someone.
Speaker 16: I was probably like I was born at eighty seven
Speaker 16: and so, and when John ban A Ramsey passed away,
Speaker 16: I was eight or nine, and I just remember being
Speaker 16: at the grocery store and seeing her picture everywhere and
Speaker 16: always ask my parents like what happened?
Speaker 17: Or you know, what is murder? And that's why they
Speaker 17: had to sit down for Chad had to explain to
Speaker 17: me what murder was. And I just remember finding I
Speaker 17: was like, what people do that. Since then, it's just
Speaker 17: been you know, all the big cases after cases, and
Speaker 17: being really young and making my parents true crime books
Speaker 17: that they would randomly read and probably not supposed to
Speaker 17: because I had more questions, but started when I was
Speaker 17: pretty young and it just kind of stuck to it.
Speaker 1: And what do you think is so captivating for people
Speaker 1: about true crime?
Speaker 11: People like a taboo subject and now there's this like
Speaker 11: intricate way to connect with other people that also like
Speaker 11: the taboo subject of true crime, and there's just something
Speaker 11: more titillating about like a delicious mystery that's true, where
Speaker 11: it's like it could happen to you. I know that
Speaker 11: sounds a little sick, but I think it's just human
Speaker 11: nature for people to be like, oh god, you know,
Speaker 11: I'm even more entrenched in this because it's real.
Speaker 12: That this might be a poor comparison, but I think
Speaker 12: that whether it be like a soap opera or some
Speaker 12: sort of fictionalized TV series where you get involved in
Speaker 12: these characters' lives, well, with true crime, it's real. It's
Speaker 12: real life stories that are hinged on life and death.
Speaker 13: I think people are obsessed with the why why do
Speaker 13: these people do the things that they do? And I
Speaker 13: think that the unknown is so fascinating to us, and
Speaker 13: most of us don't know what it's like to kill
Speaker 13: someone or to have that urge. So it's really interesting
Speaker 13: to look into true crime and try to figure out
Speaker 13: why they kill.
Speaker 15: It's the mystery and it's why someone would do that.
Speaker 15: I feel like I am an incredibly honest person, I
Speaker 15: you know, to fault, and I get myself in trouble
Speaker 15: because of how honest, I am so doing something like
Speaker 15: committing a murder and then going around having to hide
Speaker 15: it and lie constantly. I just can't wrap my head
Speaker 15: around it.
Speaker 8: I don't know.
Speaker 17: I think it's always been captivating. I think that now
Speaker 17: we just have a platform or talk about it, with
Speaker 17: social media being so popular, just even older cases that
Speaker 17: you hear about, you know, from different podcasts. It sounds
Speaker 17: like everybody's always been interested in it. There's just more
Speaker 17: of a platform.
Speaker 1: And is there a specific type of true crime story
Speaker 1: that's most interesting to you?
Speaker 12: I personally want to hook. I want to I want
Speaker 12: a story that's some kind of wacky detail in it,
Speaker 12: whether it be a lack of evidence or something the
Speaker 12: murderer does that's just completely out of line with what
Speaker 12: you would expect with Israel Keys. That guy, his mo
Speaker 12: and his motives were definitely not what we've seen from
Speaker 12: other serial killers.
Speaker 11: I mean, I've said this before, I'll say it again.
Speaker 11: Like the more taboo and like horrifying it is, the
Speaker 11: more I'm probably gonna be fascinated by it. For me personally,
Speaker 11: one of my favorite episodes that we did of Whining
Speaker 11: Crime is about cannibalism. It's something I could never imagine doing,
Speaker 11: and then learning about it was so fascinating and gross
Speaker 11: and creepy, and it just like did it for me.
Speaker 15: You know, I've always kind of liked the macabre, So
Speaker 15: the mysteries where we don't know who has committed these crimes,
Speaker 15: it peaked my interest, Like thinking about the more Murray case,
Speaker 15: like what happened there, what is the true story behind it?
Speaker 15: And stuff like that really interests me.
Speaker 14: Probably serial killers. Jeffrey Dahmer is an enigma to me
Speaker 14: because I think if he had had the sources to
Speaker 14: discuss his homesexuality, he may have found a better outlet,
Speaker 14: and he may not because he was very remorseful what
Speaker 14: he did. You know, I kind of feel bad for
Speaker 14: him at times because of that. But just the serial killer,
Speaker 14: how they can do it, how they can live their
Speaker 14: lives knowing that they've taken so many lives and seemingly
Speaker 14: be okay with it.
Speaker 13: I have a not favorite type. I hate unsolved cases,
Speaker 13: but if I had to pick a favorite, it would
Speaker 13: probably be the serial killer cases, just because you get
Speaker 13: to see them evolve and figure out their motive, and
Speaker 13: it's also sometimes easier to find out why they do
Speaker 13: the things that they do.
Speaker 1: Is there a serial killer who scares you the most?
Speaker 12: In Kansas City, there was the Kansas City Butcher and
Speaker 12: his name was Robert Burdella or Bob Burdella. I personally
Speaker 12: think that he was one of the most heinous, twisted
Speaker 12: serial killers out there.
Speaker 11: Gasey because clowns are the fucking worst.
Speaker 15: The Golden State Killer. I mean, he is caught now,
Speaker 15: but that's just absolutely chilling.
Speaker 14: Probably either Gasey the one to go after the young boy,
Speaker 14: John Wayne Gacy and Dean Coral. Anything against kids just
Speaker 14: is wrong.
Speaker 16: Ted Bundy, I always liked this a good obsession with.
Speaker 17: I mean, I could go out of people.
Speaker 13: Do Israel keys. He was so calculated with the burying
Speaker 13: kill kits and picking victims at random that I think
Speaker 13: that's what makes it so makes his cases so hard
Speaker 13: to solve, is that he had absolutely no tie to
Speaker 13: these people. He wasn't stalking them for days before like
Speaker 13: BTK did. He just picked people randomly. And if somebody
Speaker 13: is just randomly murdered, that's terrifying to me that I
Speaker 13: could just be picked for no reason, just because I
Speaker 13: was at the wrong place at the I guess wrong time.
Speaker 1: On March thirteenth, twenty twelve, at eleven forty five am,
Speaker 1: Israel Keys was pulled over were outside of Lufkin, Texas well,
Speaker 1: on his way to his sister's wedding.
Speaker 7: So you had done a really good job, though, of
Speaker 7: distancing yourself. I mean yeah, I mean even from reading
Speaker 7: the news articles, they they were on one totally different
Speaker 7: track from you know, So you had done a really
Speaker 7: good job of distancing yourself. Were you worried that you
Speaker 7: were gonna they were gonna connect it to you?
Speaker 3: No, I just my thing was always not to have
Speaker 3: anything in case anything ever was connected to me. But
Speaker 3: then yeah, I, like I said, I got kind of
Speaker 3: hooked on the publicity and I would be at home
Speaker 3: late at night or whatever and be like, well, I
Speaker 3: wonder if there's any morning story, you know, like a
Speaker 3: couple of glasses oft, and be like, I'm gonna check
Speaker 3: on that. And then I do the searches and read
Speaker 3: and you know, start commenting on stuff. And I knew
Speaker 3: that I was I knew that, you know, I was
Speaker 3: getting stupid, I guess so.
Speaker 2: But I didn't.
Speaker 3: I mean, I was still planning ahead. I never had
Speaker 3: intention of ever being caught, and.
Speaker 4: So if I could just go back to that when
Speaker 4: you're traveling in Texas, where you went. I know you
Speaker 4: went to you went to Houston, New Orleans, back to Dallas,
Speaker 4: and then you said you went south on the those
Speaker 4: days thirteenth, fourteenth, and did driving around south?
Speaker 2: Did you just stay in Texas? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I was, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what
Speaker 3: I was thinking. I was, like I said, I was
Speaker 3: kind of.
Speaker 2: Kind of out of control.
Speaker 1: This is where Israel's story ends and where our story begins, if.
Speaker 11: One step can get us back up all that time.
Speaker 1: Tomorrow on True Crime Bullshit, we'll discuss how Israel's final
Speaker 1: victim led to his arrest, how initially the FBI got
Speaker 1: it wrong, and the turmoil it brought to that victim's families,
Speaker 1: and who exactly Israel Keys was. If you enjoy True
Speaker 1: Crime Bullshit so far, stop by Apple Podcasts and rate
Speaker 1: and review it. I'd like to thank doctor Katherine Ramsland,
Speaker 1: Laney Hobbs from True Crime Fan Club for bringing the
Speaker 1: FBI press release to life, true crime podcasters and good
Speaker 1: friends Justin from Generation Why, Amanda from Wine and Crime,
Speaker 1: and Ailey from Murder Road Trip, along with true crime
Speaker 1: listeners Stephanie, Renee and Kendra. This episode was research, written,
Speaker 1: and produced by Me Your Host Josh Hallmark, with music
Speaker 1: by William Helfeier, Wife, Radical Face and Koshka The Cap All.
Speaker 2: The camps, that of Spain, lostenguri apprehension, and win
Speaker 1: Becomes clear