WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:10.279 You're listening to something. Creator and hosts Canvalent, editor and 2 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:11.679 producer Peter. 3 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:20.879 Hey, everybody, this is Something rather than Nothing podcast And 4 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:25.320 I have Victor V. Gerbo here, uh from New York 5 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:31.079 musician Victor. I've I've I've listened and watched a bunch 6 00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:34.640 of music, really love it, really enjoy it. Excited to 7 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:38.159 talk to you and you know, to talk about art 8 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:41.719 and the music you create. But first of all, welcome 9 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:43.280 to the Welcome to the podcast. 10 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:45.679 Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure 11 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:47.640 to be here. That is awesome. 12 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:51.560 What one of the one of the first questions I 13 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:55.640 ask is uh, and I know you've been doing music, 14 00:00:55.719 --> 00:00:58.840 are and creating uh for for quite some time? 15 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:00.359 Uh Uh? 16 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:03.399 Was there a moment? Was there a moment when you 17 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:07.120 were going along and you felt that you were an artist? 18 00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:10.599 You knew that you were an artist? Was it an 19 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:11.640 event or a moment? 20 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:17.840 I'm very fortunate to have been raised in an environment 21 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:23.760 where art is really accepted. My my father is a photographer, 22 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:28.799 and he ended up working for a fairly famous photographer 23 00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:32.280 named Andrea Cartez and has ended up his his his 24 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:36.200 his day job, which is now slowly becoming my day 25 00:01:36.280 --> 00:01:39.799 job as well, has been sort of managing his archive. 26 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:42.879 So I've grown up around art. My father has brought 27 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:45.760 his work home his entire life, so I've gotten to 28 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:52.680 be raised around really incredible pieces of art. And on 29 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:57.359 my mom's side, they were all traveling. My middle name 30 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:01.239 is Vocally and that's my mom's last name, and they 31 00:02:01.239 --> 00:02:06.519 were all traveling opera singers and violin players. And uh so, 32 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:12.879 certainly on on on both sides, art is your thing. 33 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:18.919 So I I was never discouraged. I've had this conversation 34 00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:21.680 with other artists and they've you know, I have said, 35 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:23.919 you know, like, oh, you know, I told my parents 36 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:26.800 I wanted to be a guitar player, a painter, writer. 37 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:31.080 It was received poorly, and I'm I'm I've I've we 38 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:34.199 all I got, you know, lots of faulty wiring, but 39 00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:39.400 so have you know. It's but that, But that being said, 40 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:42.599 have never that that that has not been my That 41 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:44.919 has never been my problem. And I'm very fortunate that 42 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:49.840 I've always been encouraged to be an artist. I I 43 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:52.960 I never expected to be a musician. 44 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:53.520 Uh. 45 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:57.719 When I was younger, I mostly painted, I drew, I wrote, 46 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:02.840 and at some point towards the end of my tenure 47 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:07.680 in college, I started writing songs and something just eventually clicked, 48 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:11.800 and I realized that playing music was going to be 49 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:17.919 my main thing and it has been ever since. 50 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:26.800 Love it, Love it incredible too. The dad you said, cretez, Oh, 51 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:31.879 my goods, I mean I I incredible. Photographer. 52 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:34.879 Oh yeah, no, I'm really glad that you. You know 53 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:40.599 is photography is never a It's not really a household 54 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:44.840 name for artists. So whenever I meet someone that actually 55 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:49.080 knows who he is, I'm always very impressed and very happy. 56 00:03:49.960 --> 00:03:54.000 My father knew him. This is I'm now telling his story, 57 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:55.800 and I hope when he hears this he doesn't feel 58 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:00.360 he doesn't feel too bad. He says that at the 59 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:06.080 age of fifteen, his brother gave him a camera and 60 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:09.039 a copy on Reading, and my dad said that he 61 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:13.800 switched from Mad magazine to photo books and flashed forward. 62 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.639 He was in something called the set Of Project, which 63 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:20.519 was an arts rehabilitation program in the guess it's probably 64 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:25.480 the late seventies, and he's being interviewed for a project 65 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:28.240 and after the interview, the woman says, all right, what 66 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:30.600 gives your photos? Like Eastern European? But here in the 67 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:33.879 Brooklyn accent, and he just went on and on about 68 00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:37.120 how much he loved Cortez, and she said, this is adorable. 69 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:39.639 I know him. I have to bring you to him, 70 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:44.160 and they began working together. My dad was a carpenter. 71 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:48.160 He built, He built shelves and furniture for him and 72 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:51.480 developed film for him. Was a bodyguard in the city, 73 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:56.759 walking around taking pictures, and when Cortez passed away, the 74 00:04:56.839 --> 00:04:59.759 people that were in charge asked him if they were 75 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:02.079 for a so he helped take apart his apartment. And 76 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:04.040 then after that they said, would you like to be 77 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:06.439 the curator of his estate? And my father said, I'll 78 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:08.839 do it for a year so it doesn't interfere with 79 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:12.199 my own art. And about forty something years later, here 80 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:17.079 we are, and all my childhood he's been bringing the 81 00:05:17.079 --> 00:05:21.519 work home because I was born slightly after he took 82 00:05:21.560 --> 00:05:26.600 on that job, and my parents didn't want to have babysitters, 83 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:28.839 so they both worked part time when I was very young, 84 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:32.439 and he's told the story. I have no memory of this, 85 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:35.519 but it does go into art, so I think it's 86 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:39.839 a relevant story. My father is laying out a show. 87 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:43.959 I forget where the exhibition was supposed to go. But 88 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:49.639 he realized that the dimensions of our living room was 89 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:52.040 the same as the gallery space. So he brought the 90 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:55.319 photographs home and he laid them out. Apparently, I'm like five, 91 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:57.000 and I toddled in. I say, what are you doing? 92 00:05:57.399 --> 00:05:59.480 And he says, I'm laying out this show. And apparently 93 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:01.600 I walked around the show and I turned to him 94 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:04.240 and I don't remember this, but I believe it. And 95 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:06.680 I said to him, you've got it all wrong. He said, 96 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:09.160 excuse me, And I said, well, this photograph talks to 97 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:12.519 this photograph and this piece looks like this, and I 98 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:16.959 apparently I moved five pictures around and he said, all right, 99 00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:20.319 and that's how he hung the show. So, and my 100 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:24.680 argument for that is good art, great art, amazing art 101 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:26.879 is so intuitive that even a five year old can 102 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:29.959 understand it. Having the context and the history and the 103 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:35.600 life experience. Certainly, you know will will embellish your understanding 104 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:38.519 of it. But and this is a quote from my father, 105 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:40.800 it's not mine, but the job of an artist is 106 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:44.439 to be a sponge and a mirror. It's to observe 107 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:47.439 the world around you, to synthesize it through the self, 108 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:50.079 and then create it in a way that other people 109 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:55.079 can walk around inside of it. And I think, you know, 110 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:58.639 a great, a great Critez photograph. I wasn't born and 111 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:02.480 you know, in in in Hungary in the eighteen hundreds. 112 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:05.720 I didn't serve in World War One. But when I 113 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:07.600 look at when I look at some of those pictures, 114 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:11.319 you can you can just you can find yourself in them. 115 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:14.920 And and it's the same thing for a good song. 116 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.279 I mean, I love Bob Dylan, and I haven't lived 117 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:19.519 Dylan's life, but some of those songs they just rip 118 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:24.360 right through your soul. So so yeah, that's sort of 119 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:26.759 my my take. I know that one of the one 120 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:28.439 of the questions you asked is what is the role 121 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.800 of an artist? And that's that that that, yeah, immediately 122 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:33.519 came to mind. 123 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:39.959 Yeah, thank you, thank you for the telling a spot. 124 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:42.040 I mean, I just found it just the point where 125 00:07:42.040 --> 00:07:44.959 you said that there was it really just struck me, 126 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.560 like that intuitive piece where you said, you know, there's 127 00:07:47.560 --> 00:07:49.439 a lot of fuzz as we get older, but you 128 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:52.240 just you know, it's the eye you see, it's like wait, 129 00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:55.680 a second soul auto order, and uh, you're walking around 130 00:07:55.680 --> 00:08:02.279 and it's just a beautiful story walking around and the calory. 131 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:07.439 Yeah, yeah, no, no, it was now and and I'm 132 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:11.160 I'm very lucky that that that that now I get 133 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:13.920 to look at the pictures. You know. Again, he my 134 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:17.279 father often says, you know, he's accidentally become a Cotez 135 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:20.519 expert night, and I too have accidentally become one as well, 136 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:23.160 looking at my whole life, and now I'm doing work 137 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:26.120 for the In addition, my day job is now that 138 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:29.600 and by night I play music and build guitars. And 139 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:34.360 that's that's become my that's become my my saga at 140 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:37.399 the moment. But I wouldn't have it any other way. 141 00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:42.559 If one must, if an artist must have a day job, 142 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:47.200 which we all need, because art doesn't make enough for 143 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:49.519 any of us to survive. Unless you crack that amazing 144 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:53.440 threshold looking at great art, he gets more art. And 145 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:56.120 it doesn't matter if it's a photograph and you play music, 146 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:58.360 or you're looking at a painting and you're you know, 147 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:02.960 and you take photos it it. There's a great series 148 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:07.000 which I hope someone was discussing doing a book on 149 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.600 it at some point. But Kretez in the twenties was 150 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:14.320 hanging out with a lot of his He had a 151 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:18.399 his roommate. I think he also lived across the hole 152 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:20.600 at some point. His name was Laos Tiani. He was 153 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:27.320 a mute Hungarian painter and etcher and printmaker. And they 154 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:30.120 have this great series back and forth where Chretez would 155 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:32.360 take a photograph and then he would make a painting, 156 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:33.799 and then he would make a painting and you take 157 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:35.559 a photograph, and it didn't matter that they were doing 158 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:38.480 different forms of art. But you can see this. It's 159 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:41.279 not when I when I when I say it's competitive. 160 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:43.480 It's not competitive in a bad way. It doesn't have 161 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:48.360 to be a negative. But good art begets more art, 162 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:52.519 and art's a conversation. It doesn't happen alone. If it's 163 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:55.960 your experience that you're synthesizing as someone else's art, you 164 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:59.960 can you can write a song in response to the geometry. 165 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.159 You have a photograph, you can find how that functions 166 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:06.240 in a different form. And that's something that would never 167 00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:10.320 happen if you were only listening to music, or if 168 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.360 you were only doing blank. In this, I don't think 169 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.799 art is it's it's it's it's broad stroke. It doesn't 170 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:21.600 have to be rete I mean, I have one story 171 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:24.360 that I when I was in college. I took a 172 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:28.399 it was a computer design class, and one of the 173 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:33.039 assignments was to make a flyer, a business card, and 174 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.679 a brochure or something. And I made a business card 175 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:37.759 for my music I was writing at the time. I 176 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:39.639 did one of those, and then the other one I 177 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:41.919 did for I think was painting or something, and the 178 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:44.759 professor looked at it and kind of laughed and said 179 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:46.919 to me, you know, you're gonna have to pick one eventually. 180 00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:49.360 And at the time I found that so offensive. I 181 00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:51.440 was like, what do you mean I have to pick one? Yeah, 182 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:54.000 And then then as time is gone, I was like, oh, yeah, 183 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:57.919 that guy was right. I wish I could find the 184 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.720 card and say, yeah, yeah, you where you were right 185 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:01.279 on the money. 186 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:03.679 But that being said, well, one. 187 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:06.080 Thing always, you know, sort of does emerge as your 188 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:13.639 main creative outlet. Having connections to everything that you can 189 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:21.120 have connections to certainly helps your art improve. Yeah. 190 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:26.519 I really appreciated your point of like the interacting, interacting 191 00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:30.840 with art and be getting more art. I wanted to 192 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:36.120 ask it. It's somewhat standard, somewhat standard question, but like 193 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:38.200 it my mind, my mind goes towards it. And it 194 00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:41.440 was talking about like the generation of your art and 195 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:45.159 time I read about musicians, you know, there's always this 196 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:49.039 kind of like categorization, right, like the way we talk 197 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:51.559 about it. Music can be so expansive and we use 198 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:55.799 you know, terms to try to like try to place it, 199 00:11:56.440 --> 00:12:02.200 and and listening to music in your band you feel 200 00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:04.679 a lot of different influences and to see other people 201 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:08.200 you know, describing it folk like you know, spanding a 202 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:12.919 long range of time. M hm is their way? Is 203 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:15.559 there way you would put it as far as those 204 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:19.559 influence you mentioned Bob Dylan, but like the the stuff 205 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:22.039 that really like rattled you and you could feel like 206 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:25.440 their life and kind of like in your development in 207 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:26.120 your music. 208 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:31.919 Well, I yeah, I mean I I love using the 209 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:35.840 umbrella of folk rock Americana or folks singer songwriter because 210 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:39.559 you can get away with so much. Yeah yeah, right 211 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:43.320 right right, yeah yeah, I I you know, I don't 212 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:49.759 like I put this genre specific to perhaps perhaps to 213 00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:52.639 my own detriment, because you know, certainly it's so easy 214 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:55.000 to walk in and say, you know, I'm an indie 215 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:57.279 artist or I'm this or I'm that. And the folk 216 00:12:57.360 --> 00:12:59.120 rock Americana you can do it, blues, you can do 217 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:01.759 a country song you can you can lean on all 218 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:06.639 of those, you know, sort of American roots, and I, 219 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:09.840 you know, I love the diversity of that. And I 220 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:12.480 in addition to Bob Dylan, I mean, I love the 221 00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:16.320 you know, Alan Lomax, Smithsonian collection, stuff like that. I 222 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:22.879 I you know, certainly with some of that material, there 223 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:26.279 is an anchor into the time that they were created, 224 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:30.120 whether it is the quality of the recording. And of 225 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:32.360 course an artist can never really get away from the 226 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:34.879 time period that they are in. But I love creating 227 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:41.399 art that isn't really stuck in a time. I was 228 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:43.519 talking to someone not too long ago. I can't I 229 00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:45.919 can't remember what the context was, but I was saying 230 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.720 that there's a lot of like a lot of modern 231 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:53.159 pop music that makes me really sad like when I 232 00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.840 hear it, because it is so anchored in like we are, 233 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:58.159 we are young, we're going to set the world on fire, 234 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:01.639 which you know, I'm still theoretic theoretically young for another 235 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:06.480 five and a half minutes now now for but that, 236 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:09.279 you know, but that, but that I've always been so 237 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:13.519 conscious that like that that goes away like that's that's 238 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:18.919 it's such a fleeting part of your life and I 239 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.000 don't know though, those just some of those songs just 240 00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:23.519 just they make me want to cry, and I don't 241 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:25.960 quite know why I don't even like them that much. 242 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:30.240 But when, but like when, when you listen to a 243 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:32.919 Frank Sinatra song, like the ones that just sort of 244 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:38.840 have entered into that like immortal category, it doesn't matter 245 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:42.159 when he was singing them or why he was singing them. 246 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:45.759 You can play them in any time period and they 247 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:49.720 they work for you. And that's always what I've sort 248 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:53.679 of tried to tried to aim for, is to not 249 00:14:54.399 --> 00:15:00.960 get too bogged down in and where I am and 250 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:03.879 just make something that I would hope that in the 251 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:09.000 event that it that it lasts, that someone you know, 252 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:12.480 one hundred years from now, could in theory listen and 253 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:16.720 find their way find their way through it. Well, of course, 254 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:19.159 you know, I think I was listening to what was 255 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.279 it Why I try to change me now? And I 256 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:23.759 know that like even you know, there's the line I 257 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:25.559 leave my keys in the door, and I'm like, well, 258 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:27.440 you know, keys are starting to go away a little bit. 259 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:29.120 You know, you have car keys, you. 260 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:31.840 Like it. 261 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:36.519 It's really like there's things that you wouldn't even realize 262 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:40.159 will become become antiquated. The one one one thing that 263 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:41.919 really freaks me out, which will do a best to 264 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:44.879 describe because I realized the video is not saved, is 265 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:49.559 if you ask a child to pantomime taking a picture, 266 00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:51.559 and many of them will raise their hand like it's 267 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:54.080 a phone, whereas mine is always going to be as 268 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:57.759 if you're holding a physical camera the same. Yeah, a phone, 269 00:15:57.840 --> 00:15:59.919 you put your hand up. I always do the two fingers. 270 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:02.480 And then there's they you know, they do like it's 271 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:06.279 a cell phone. That's just part of this part of 272 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:07.919 the part of the journey, you. 273 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:13.080 Know, yeah, I no, go ahead, no, no, that was 274 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:16.440 I think the end of the the. 275 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:19.679 The weird rambling thread that I just had. No. 276 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:22.879 You know, one of the things when you're talking about 277 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:25.840 you know, I don't want to use these words that 278 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.519 used a lot, but like through time or timeless. I'm 279 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:34.799 a union activist, union organizer and folk music and those 280 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:38.879 embedded songs, uh, you know, like they have it right. 281 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:41.480 So like I'm a worker in like you know, nineteen 282 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.080 twenty seven. 283 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:43.919 Guess what, the boss got. 284 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:46.600 Their boot on my neck, and you know, like you know, 285 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:50.200 there's there's these there's these conditions and there's this kind 286 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:51.039 of like sound. 287 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:55.360 I think, yeah, there is a you know, a primal, 288 00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:01.879 a primal sound that comes from those the experiences, and 289 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:08.799 recently just with the world in the place that it's 290 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:11.480 in in politics, that the place that it's in, I've 291 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.880 been starting to look at I've sort of stayed away 292 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.680 from protest music. I love it, and I love playing 293 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.559 it for myself, and I love listening to it. But again, 294 00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:25.480 like I've always personally strove to, you know, for my 295 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:27.759 own writing and for the stuff and the songs that 296 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:30.920 I cover to be again like not anchored in a 297 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.240 specific time, and a lot of protest music is anchored 298 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:39.079 in a specific moment. But as I've sort of begun 299 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.839 sort of studying it more critically lately in an attempt 300 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.319 to sort of synthesize it and figure out how I 301 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:52.799 can participate, I've been amazed at how even when stories 302 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:58.400 are specific to a time period, how they can still 303 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:04.240 resonate and be so relevant today. With Marcus Serta, who 304 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:10.480 I collaborate with him for my home recordings, I sort 305 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:12.799 of I have multiple projects that I work on, one 306 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:16.359 as my full band, which Mark is also a part of. 307 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:19.160 He plays bass in that project, But when I'm by myself, 308 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.880 Mark has been a multi instrumentalist, predominantly guitar, and he 309 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:26.359 mixed and masters the home recordings that we do. And 310 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:30.200 recently we've sort of done a foray into protest music, 311 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:35.599 and I've experimented with writing, and we've been opening up 312 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:39.160 our sets with a Woody Guthrie toon called Deport, which 313 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:43.480 is the plane wreck of Los Gatos, and it's a 314 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:47.400 song that Guthrie wrote about in the late nineteen forties. 315 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:51.119 The state rounded up a bunch of migrant workers that 316 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:52.960 they deemed illegal, and they put them on a plane 317 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:57.759 and the plane crashed over the mountains, and the response 318 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:00.839 on the radio was very black life uster. They didn't 319 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:02.640 you know, it's just so you know, a bunch of 320 00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:05.319 immigrants died, and then they just went on the news 321 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:08.079 and it upset him so much that he wrote this song. 322 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:11.359 And I mean again, there are moments in the song 323 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.400 that are specific to the plane wreck, but the the 324 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:20.400 but the the subject matter is still so relevant today 325 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:25.640 and it's both amazing from the standpoint of Guthrie as 326 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:29.680 an artist, also tragic that we're still dealing with the 327 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:36.279 same problems and the same missteps but that that being said, yeah, 328 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:39.720 with Union music, it's it's absolutely incredible. There's so much 329 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:44.240 material to go through. And again, I'm sure you encountered 330 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:46.960 this every day that they that even even even if 331 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:51.240 it's specific to a moment, there's still broad strokes relevance 332 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:54.920 to to what you're doing. And two and to necessary 333 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:55.880 activism today. 334 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:02.839 Well, the singing, singing and bringing people uh together, you 335 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.759 know there there's incredible components of you know where people like, yeah, 336 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:09.799 we are together, and they don't have to see it. 337 00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:12.960 They don't have to see it like on the strike line, 338 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:16.160 or they can they can feel it and the words 339 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:18.559 of everybody around them. And I think it's such a 340 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:20.960 beautiful thing. All right, I got a different I get 341 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:26.799 a different question. So in New York City, I've seen 342 00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:32.960 some of you live videos beautiful venues for you. Tell 343 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:38.240 us about like your favorite venue there that you play? 344 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:41.200 What, what's it, what's it feel like? 345 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:42.880 Uh? 346 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:43.640 Where is it? 347 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:45.960 Where is it in the city. I'd like to get 348 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.599 a little bit of a feel of one of my 349 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.759 favorite cities in the entire world. 350 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:57.200 Well are our biggest shows that we've done, which, of 351 00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:02.160 course those venues come to mind, and first and foremost 352 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:07.200 just as sort of like we did Carnegie Hole about 353 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:12.000 two or three years ago now, and a bit longer 354 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:15.119 ago we did one of the smaller stages at Brooklyn 355 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.880 Academy of Music, and certainly just the history in those 356 00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:23.240 stages it was incredible to be a part of. But 357 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:28.359 recently we did now two shows at Cafe Wah, which 358 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:34.640 igor connected me with you in part because I cut 359 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:39.680 a Gerbo twenty five live album and we and we 360 00:21:40.279 --> 00:21:43.759 recorded it at Cafe Wa. And I mean obviously a 361 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:49.640 much smaller venue comparatively to Carnegie Hole, but I would argue, 362 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:53.319 you know, as far as the history of folk and 363 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:57.519 rock music in New York City, quite a heavyweight contender 364 00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:02.279 in terms of importance. Dylan when he first came to 365 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:05.640 New York, the first place that he went to wash 366 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.640 was was Cafe WA. I believe many of early Hendrick 367 00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:13.480 sets where we're there, it's the wall is lined with 368 00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:19.519 photographs of the pivotal artists in our culture. That we're there, 369 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:23.720 and it's amazing that not only does it still exist 370 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:28.400 because so many venues, especially during COVID, just went belly 371 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:33.400 up the bitter end. Also incredibly important almost almost died 372 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:37.279 during that period and there was a bunch of artists 373 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:43.799 came together and did a zoom zoom show in addition 374 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:49.400 to the owner launching a launching a GoFundMe, and it 375 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:52.200 raised enough money to keep it to keep it afloat. 376 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:55.960 And I just one of my one of one of 377 00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:59.240 my idols is George Carlin, and he opened up the 378 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:03.279 previous Bitter End uh save the Bitter End show, And 379 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:06.680 I'm just thrilled that in the the one following it 380 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:10.160 that my name is in the list of people that 381 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.680 yeah where I had a when I was in college 382 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:17.000 at a philosophy class and the professor asked me who's 383 00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:19.559 your who's your favorite philosopher? And I said George Carlin 384 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:21.680 and he said, all right, that makes a lot of sense. 385 00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:26.400 And but uh, but but the but the fact that 386 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.400 both the Bitter End End Cafe while not just or 387 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:34.240 still in existence, but they're still taking chances on acts 388 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:35.480 that are that. 389 00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:40.279 Are new, that are unknown, that are independent. That's a 390 00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:43.000 great thing. I mean the fact that you know, not 391 00:23:43.240 --> 00:23:46.000 only myself, but you know many artists that I know 392 00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:48.759 that are just starting out get to say, like, you know, 393 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:51.960 I got to play the same sace, the same stage 394 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:54.240 as Jimmy Hendricks. I got to play the same stage 395 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:56.319 as Bob Dylan. I got to play the same stage 396 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:59.160 as it was a Lady Gaga and Taylor Swift some 397 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.200 of their early shows at the Bitter End. That's great, 398 00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:04.519 and it sort of puts us all in the same 399 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:06.960 like we're all in the same we're all on the 400 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:11.640 same staircase, we're all in the same Yeah. And I 401 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:13.200