WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:06.879 The Bible doesn't say if you're a Protestant or Catholic 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:08.279 or art actually will be saved. 3 00:00:08.359 --> 00:00:09.880 It says you must be born again. 4 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:12.919 Now, But what does that mean because the rest of 5 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:15.960 the New Testament texts talk about that being baptism. 6 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:19.079 Yeah, well, born again is we have three kinds. 7 00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:19.839 Of death in the Bible. 8 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:22.960 When is it physical death, spiritual death, and eternal death 9 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:25.039 which is also called second death? 10 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:28.320 So that what does it have to do with baptism? 11 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:31.199 What I just said, baptism is an. 12 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:35.679 Outer you're just repeating Protestant Baptist doctrines. And I'm telling 13 00:00:35.679 --> 00:00:37.840 you in Titus three five it's called the washing of 14 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:38.799 the labor regeneration. 15 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:42.039 Yes, but that's in this speed's what happens. 16 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:44.000 How do you know that you're just asserting that when 17 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:46.240 Paul doesn't make that distinction. How do you know that 18 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:50.200 every time Paul talks about baptism is quote spiritual, Well. 19 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:52.320 The baptism was an outer confession. 20 00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:54.520 You're just restating the question I'm asking you, how do 21 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:56.439 you know that that's what Paul means and all those 22 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:58.840 passages about baptism. 23 00:00:58.359 --> 00:00:59.679 Because it's all over the Bible. 24 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:02.560 It's so the answer is it's all over when that's 25 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:04.959 the thing I'm asking you. So, in other words, so, 26 00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:06.840 why what are you for the third time going to 27 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:08.319 just tell me your interpretation again? 28 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:11.480 No, it's not my Interpretation's what the Bible says. 29 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:14.519 That's what you're saying. That's what the Bible says, and 30 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:16.719 I'm saying no. In John three, I think Jesus is 31 00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:19.719 talking about water baptism, and that's why Acts two Peter says, 32 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:22.400 repent and be baptized for the remission of sins? Is 33 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:24.599 it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine. 34 00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:27.359 What the bone again happens that repair? 35 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:31.400 Is it water baptism in Acts two thirty eight thirty nine. Yes, 36 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:33.519 oh it is. But that's where he says, is the 37 00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:34.480 remission of sins? 38 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:38.120 No, the remission of sins it doesn't happen with washing. 39 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:38.439 In the water. 40 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:40.840 It literally says that in X two thirty eight thirty nine. 41 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:43.760 No, nobody gets saved by being baptizing the water. 42 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:46.799 That's your Yeah, please keep asserting the Protestant doctrine, which 43 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.040 is what I'm challenging, which you said it is water 44 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:51.239 baptism in actually thirty eight and thirty nine, and he 45 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:53.200 says that that is the remission of sentence. 46 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:56.000 But listen, when I became a believer, I. 47 00:01:56.560 --> 00:01:59.359 This is your subjective interpretation. I don't. It doesn't matter 48 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:01.359 what you your personal experience was. 49 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:04.840 No, I'm telling you right now there are tens of 50 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:08.080 thousands of Iranians who have become believers in Jesus and 51 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:10.919 they are not able to get baptized because in Iran 52 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:14.080 there's not possibility to get arrested or but they love 53 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:16.400 the Lord and they're not even baptizing, but they're born again. 54 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:17.560 They're full of the Holy space. 55 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:20.039 Let's just lag in the question that I mean. They 56 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:22.240 may be in God's mind and that's fine, but the 57 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:25.039 normative means by which we do this is said to 58 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.280 be multiple times throughout the New Testament, actual baptism. So 59 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:30.680 you're just assuming Protestantism, which is the very thing that 60 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:33.360 I'm questioning about. So how do you prove Protestantism to me? 61 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:38.639 Well, as I said, I'm not a Protestant, was a basically. 62 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:41.319 You are a Protestant. Why are you acting like you're not? Okay, evangelical? 63 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:41.800 Is that better? 64 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:42.960 Yeah? 65 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:47.759 So basically, what happened with the Protestantism Martin Luther. It 66 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:52.280 was a protest against Catholic system of you know, justification 67 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:56.599 by works and punaware on faith plus works. And what 68 00:02:56.719 --> 00:03:00.280 all Protestant was was, no, we're justified again. 69 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:02.000 I don't need to I know the history of the 70 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:03.800 pros and Reformation. I'm not trying to be rude to you, 71 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:07.159 but I'm asking you about evangelicalism, which is what you're 72 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:15.080 part of, and I'm asking you why should we accept evangelicalism. 73 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:15.039 Again, It's not evangelicalism. 74 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:17.520 Or being dishonest because you just admitted that you weren't 75 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:19.039 evangelical like two minutes ago. 76 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:21.639 Yeah, evangelical What is evangelical? 77 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:22.199 The Christians. 78 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:24.319 I'm not going to argue with you over terms. Where 79 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:25.439 do you get your Bible from? 80 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:28.120 What do we? What are we? 81 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:30.159 Where do you get the Bible from? Did it just 82 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:32.080 fall out of the air into Iran? 83 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:37.520 No? I actually you run is illegal to a Bible. 84 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:39.479 So I don't live in your own now. 85 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:42.960 I live in Israel. But when I when I became 86 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:45.000 believer it, I started for a Bible for three months. 87 00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:46.439 We're moving on. 88 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:51.439 So you made a video a while bag talking about 89 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:54.560 Protestism and criticizing them a bit, and this open debate, 90 00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:56.560 perform plat format you do. 91 00:03:56.719 --> 00:03:58.120 And three issues you said you. 92 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:01.800 Stayed with it was it was a historical, it was 93 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:05.719 anti sacramental, anti mystical, and. 94 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:06.719 Just flat out done. 95 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:10.759 Yes, the problem that I have with that is specifically 96 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:14.680 a historical and the issues I have with that is 97 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:17.279 and some of the issues you gave for why protestant 98 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:22.360 is antihistorical was they don't follow the liturgical warship properly, 99 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:25.519 They don't do certain customs and traditions that were practiced 100 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:28.759 by the early Church, and don't have the exact same 101 00:04:28.759 --> 00:04:31.800 pieces of scripture or some example. 102 00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:34.120 Those are some examples. There could be many more listed 103 00:04:34.199 --> 00:04:34.560 for sure. 104 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:41.160 And the issue I have with that, if Protestantism. 105 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.800 Is a historical by those standards, I would say, so 106 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:44.800 is Orthodoxy. 107 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:46.279 And how is that. 108 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:54.279 Well for starters Constantinople fell in fourteen fifty three. 109 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:56.399 You can't be serious that this is an argument that 110 00:04:56.439 --> 00:05:00.319 you think this is an arguments the start of one. Yeah, 111 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:05.160 what does this have to do with the theology. This 112 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:07.600 is why I block this guy, because this is too 113 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:14.720 too dumb. I mean, are you the synoticon of Orthodoxy? 114 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:15.680 Yeah? 115 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:19.199 Because I believe in the Sonoticon of Orthodoxy, in one 116 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:22.079 of the statements you give Thanksgiving, and that is the 117 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:24.920 glorification and of the defenders of Orthodoxy. 118 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:29.199 Might not mistaken, probably I don't remember. It's a giant text. 119 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:34.839 It's a giant text that's different among different branches of Orthodoxy. 120 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:38.160 Right because different bishops can add their own personal For example, 121 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:41.639 Metropolitan saraphim A Preas adds the Joe's witnesses to the 122 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:42.839 condemnation texture. 123 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:47.720 And the problem I have with that is the statement 124 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:51.439 of the defender of Orthodoxy, which originally within the Church. 125 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:53.600 Was the Holy Roman Emperor. 126 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:58.399 As was stated by Anthony, Patriarch of Constantinople in thirteen 127 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.920 ninety three to a letter of to letter to Basle 128 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:06.240 the First, the Grand Prince of Moscow, saying, my son, 129 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.120 it is not possible for Christians to have a church 130 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:12.079 and not have an emperor. Church and Empire have a 131 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:15.439 great unity and community. It is not possible for them 132 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:18.079 to be separated from one another. For the Holy Emperor 133 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:21.519 is not as other rulers and the governors of other regions. 134 00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:25.399 And this is because the Emperor is from the. 135 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:31.040 Beginning establish and confirmed true religion Eustia in all inhabited 136 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:33.800 world okiomenia, they convolse. 137 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:37.680 Yeah, I don't know how to pronounce. 138 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:42.800 The word, obviously, And so orthodoxy is false because Byzantium fell, 139 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:44.959 I mean. 140 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:46.959 It's not just that Bonancium fell. 141 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:48.199 Puppet. 142 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:53.439 Now we see why I booted this guy, and I 143 00:06:53.600 --> 00:06:55.839 was right to boot that guy. This is too stupid 144 00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:02.160 to even entertain. So, guys, I know you want entertainment, 145 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:07.120 but when you asked me to bring back Banantium and 146 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:11.519 these kinds of goofballs, it's usually because they're booted for 147 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:14.480 a reason. So let's get on my banana phone and 148 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:18.519 let's call up Banantium and let's talk to the Bananantine 149 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:22.879 emperor and see if we can get any history about 150 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:26.360 why he's not ruling on an earthly throne to help 151 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:32.319 ensure Banantium. Hello, Hello, Can anyone else call in the 152 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:36.600 banana phone and see if they can get the Bananantine Emperor? Hello? 153 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:40.720 I just hear monkey is chirping. I think I called 154 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:43.839 the Matt Dila Monkey line accidentally. I got Mount Dila 155 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:45.079 Monkey on speed dial. 156 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:51.319 Does the Eastern or the Church think that Saint Augustine 157 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:52.000 is a saint? 158 00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:55.439 Yes, he's called a saint of the Fifth Act Medical Council. 159 00:07:56.839 --> 00:07:59.240 Okay, did the old heresies. 160 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:02.920 He held to errors? An error is not necessarily heresy. 161 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:06.199 Every church father, in some way has some error that 162 00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:07.439 doesn't make them all heretics. 163 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:12.920 Okay, So the philioque absolute divine simplicity or in heresies. 164 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.040 A heresy is something that's declared to heresy by the 165 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:20.120 Church eventually in a council. Augustine didn't believe anything erroneous 166 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:22.279 at his time that he knew was a heresy, so 167 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:24.879 I philioquay is not condemned until the Middle Ages. 168 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:30.399 Okay, So before the nice and kind of the Nicean Council, 169 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:32.879 if someone held that Jesus was in God or go 170 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:36.200 substantial with the Father, then they were inhertics, right according. 171 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:39.240 To that law. No, No, because some errors are significant 172 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:43.480 enough that the person that holds them. It's the attitude 173 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:45.960 that they have and the humility that they have. So 174 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.879 for example, when Augustine writes on the Trinity, he says, 175 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:52.200 in book three, I am speculating, and I give these 176 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:55.799 books to the judgment of the Universal Church, and if 177 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:58.799 there's anything wrong in them, they can be rejected. So 178 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:00.960 that's the attitude of humility to you. That, for example, 179 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:04.720 Origin didn't have. Origin was obstinate to the end of 180 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:07.279 his life in his heresies, and he did not submit 181 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:09.320 to the judgment of the Church, whereas Augustine did so. 182 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.679 Augustine's humility is what covers the theological speculations and mistakes 183 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:15.639 that he had, whereas for the people that you're talking about, 184 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:16.279 it's different. 185 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:18.480 Okay, gotcha. 186 00:09:18.919 --> 00:09:22.679 Was he later corrected though by other bishops and other theologians. 187 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:26.039 If he hands his book to the Church for judgment, 188 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:29.320 and Church that doesn't mean that it happens overnight, if 189 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:32.399 the Church doesn't in his lifetime judge it, but the 190 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:34.919 Church judges by the time of the Fifth Acumenical Council 191 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:37.120 that he's a saint. And by the way, do you 192 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:39.879 know what book the Fifth Actumdical Council lists as his 193 00:09:40.840 --> 00:09:45.000 pre eminent theological work. No, okay, it's none of those books. 194 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.360 It's against the Manicheans, so it's not on the Trinity 195 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:50.600 or See of God or any of these other works. 196 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:55.039 Okay, gotcha, that was my question. Thank you, all right. 197 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:57.840 So, heresy is a sin of will and obstinacy, not 198 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.759 just a sin of mistake or error, and not even 199 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:05.080 Roman Catholics believe that he got everything right. They think 200 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:08.279 he made all kinds of theological mistakes, which would mean 201 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:11.240 that Roman Catholicism is false if that's the criteria. Because 202 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:16.200 Augustine taught a pretty strict doctrine predestination that the Roman 203 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.960 cally Church eventually doesn't adhere to. So if that's the case, 204 00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:22.039 then the Roman Catholic system he's also a heretic. But 205 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:28.399 pretty much everybody has a degree of flexibility for saints 206 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:32.519 in the church, because no saint got everything as an 207 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:35.200 individual saint correct. Many of them got all kinds of 208 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.879 things wrong. Many of them got the canon of Scripture wrong, 209 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:40.159 and that's an important thing, But it doesn't make them 210 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:43.000 all heretics because they made a mistake. Making mistake is 211 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:46.440 not the essence of a heresy. Obstinacy and pride is 212 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:47.440 the essence of heresy. 213 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:54.279 Just had a couple of questions, like about Eastern Orthodox relationships. 214 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:58.559 I guess to the Reforms, Okay, so. 215 00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:02.120 I guess for starters, the main condemnation of the Reformed 216 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:04.320 would be their relationship to Roman Catholicism. 217 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:11.720 Correct, the Orthodox condemnation of the Reformed would be the 218 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:14.000 relation to Roman Catholicism. I don't know they even know 219 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:14.600 what that means. 220 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:17.879 Like I suppose I can qualify the question. 221 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:19.960 So the Reformed are going to try to make some 222 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:26.919 claim about their Apostolic succession, at least the High Reformed, right, 223 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:29.960 and they're going to trace that through Roman Catholicism. They're 224 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:33.240 not going to trace it through like either the East Split. 225 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:35.639 I've never heard of a Reform person who believes in 226 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:37.759 Apostolic succession, so I don't even know what that means. 227 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:40.559 Oh interesting, all right, maybe this is some niche view. 228 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:43.360 I guess the second question, I mean. 229 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:47.679 Maybe an Anglican Calvinist High Church Anglican Calvinists would try 230 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:48.799 to claim that's why. 231 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:50.879 I mean, yeah, yeah, I've heard that from High Church 232 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:53.279 Anglicans through Reformed Anglicans even, but I've heard it from 233 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:55.759 like OPC guys, right, Orthodox Presbyterians. 234 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:56.080 No. 235 00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:58.480 I mean, well, I mean, if they want to redefine 236 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.919 what the word a succession means, then that's what they're doing. 237 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:05.960 Because there's no Protestants who are Classical Reformation Protestants that 238 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:08.159 believe that there's a transmission of the gift of the 239 00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:10.799 Holy Spirit in the laying on of hands. 240 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:13.320 Kind of in the same way that a Lutheran is 241 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.279 going to argue for the historicity and apolasticity of the 242 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:17.000 Lutheran Church. 243 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.720 But that's not what I just said. 244 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:22.039 Right, No, I'm recognizing the distinction. 245 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:25.919 Then it's not apostolic accession. It's redefining the terms to 246 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.320 make Protestantism and continuity with some made up traditions, just 247 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.840 like they do the same thing with Niceno Constantapolitan Creed, 248 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:36.759 where it says one Holy Catholic Apostolic and they redefine 249 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:37.919 that to me an the invisible Church. 250 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.919 Yeah, I'll just can see that. It's like redefining No 251 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:43.240 problem there. So the second question would be. 252 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:47.559 I've seen maybe I obviously need to read more about 253 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:50.799 Eastern Orthodox resources on the sovereignty of God, but it 254 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:53.759 seems to me that like certain historic views within the 255 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:59.039 Eastern Orthodox can be consistent with like maybe four point 256 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:03.559 or three point five, you know, tool of affirming Calvinists. 257 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:04.960 Do you agree or disagree? No? 258 00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:08.960 Okay, which of the points, like, do you flat out 259 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.159 reject on all of them? 260 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:11.919 Fair enough? 261 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:14.320 All right, I'm not gonna take up too much time 262 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:16.120 if you ever want to have like a formal debate. 263 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:17.120 I DM. 264 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:18.600 Do you so? Thanks for the space? 265 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:19.639 Well how about right now? 266 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:22.399 No with me, I'm not good enough of this. I 267 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:24.200 have other people that I can talk to you or 268 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.480 link you up again I do. I mean what their names? 269 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:29.039 Is it? 270 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:31.919 Somebody with an audience over a few hundred followers? 271 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:35.279 Uh? Yeah, a couple of them. Jonathan Speaks would be 272 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:35.720 one of them. 273 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:37.720 And how big is his audience. 274 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.960 I'd probably guess around five six hundred? 275 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:45.240 No, thanks, thanks for your time. 276 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:51.919 Again. The Twitter spaces are for four or five hundred 277 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.320 two three five thousand. I'm not doing any formal debates 278 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:58.360 unless you have a large following. I didn't work my 279 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:03.559 butt off debating a thousand goobers to debate all the 280 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:06.360 top atheists and Muslims, to spend all my time debating 281 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:09.240 a bunch of five hundred follower people who want to 282 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.840 chase clout and grow their audience. So that's why you 283 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:15.440 get the Twitter space and they don't come here because 284 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:31.440 all they want is a big audience. Jud are you there? 285 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:31.799 Yeah? 286 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:35.600 I can hear you. It's real quiet, can you hear me? 287 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:38.440 Yeah? 288 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:41.120 Hey, I don't know why your volume is super long 289 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.919 on my phone, but I'm here, Okay. 290 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:44.919 I had a question for you. 291 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:49.919 So I'm a Protestant, I'm an Evangelical and I've been 292 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:53.919 inquiring it too Orthodoxy and it's really fascinating stuff. 293 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:55.600 I'm trying to learn as much as I can. 294 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:57.919 The thing that I am having a hard time really 295 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:03.159 understanding is your guys view on christ sacrifice and it 296 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.559 comes to the shedding of blood and the Old Testament 297 00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:09.879 sacrificial system. You know, that's really deep be ingrained in 298 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:12.519 Protestant view of salvation and. 299 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:16.120 Literally, so what I'm gonna say is, I'm gonna what 300 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:19.600 I'm gonna say is go watch the video Protestant Penal 301 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:22.919 Substitution Jay Dyer. So we've literally covered this probably five 302 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:26.240 hundred times. It comes up in every open space. So 303 00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:29.960 if you look at my clips channel, you'll find multiple 304 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:35.879 things on PSA. I try to be rude. I'm just like, 305 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:40.960 it's like probably a thousand times we've responded to that. 306 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:49.360 Go ahead, hello, yep. 307 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:54.919 Hey, So also Protestant here, very disgruntled Protestant. 308 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:55.200 Uh. 309 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:58.480 I would like to go east Orthodoxy, but my wife 310 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:05.000 has voice and concerns about y'all's mariology of Holy and 311 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:09.639 do y'all see her as totally sinless, like she has. 312 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:11.080 Never once in her life? 313 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:16.039 Or is that she is the most pure, most blessed 314 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:18.679 and and like, I get all that part, but y'all 315 00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:21.279 can make the contention that she's never sinned ever. 316 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.639 Yeah, she's a spatless virgin and God's grace preserved her 317 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:25.279 from sinning. 318 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:29.240 Gotcha. And so that would be a. 319 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:33.799 Stumbling block for my wife is that she would not 320 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:39.240 be comfortable saying that Mary only is sinless. 321 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:41.240 She would say that she's most. 322 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.039 Pure if that's fine, but she would have the issue 323 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:45.679 of making the jumpsy sinless. 324 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:49.559 What do you what do you recommend? 325 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:52.799 I mean, I made a whole video on the importance 326 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:54.960 of Mary, and I would say that, you know, I 327 00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:00.440 like if if all the other doctrines are true an Orthodox, see, 328 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:02.759 it doesn't make any sense to say, but I'm not 329 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:04.599 going to submit to this one that I don't like 330 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:08.160 or disagree with, like if it's a package deal. So 331 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:13.319 to me, it's perfectly befitting that if she's the new Eve, 332 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:17.440 she would be like Eve, and instead of being a 333 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:21.759 fallen creature in the sense of actual sin, she would 334 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:27.799 be preserved from that like Eve would have been had 335 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:31.720 she not sinned. So I think it's a consequence of 336 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:34.480 her as the mother of God, that she was preserved 337 00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:39.440 from that so that she could be in that intimate, 338 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.680 special role of being the one that gave birth to 339 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.799 the Son of God and gave to him his human 340 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:50.359 nature and so forth. But if we think about sin 341 00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:54.119 as a specific act and not as a state of being, 342 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:56.839 as most Calvinists and reform people do. They think of 343 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.880 sin as a state of being. It's not find is James, 344 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:03.079 excuse me by James, as an action of the will. 345 00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:07.680 That's another reason why infants aren't quote sinners, because infants 346 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:11.200 don't commit actual sins. They don't commit sins of the will. 347 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:14.160 The only sense in which an infant is a quote 348 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.039 center is that they are deprived of the grace of 349 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.240 Eden and they are fallen, and so they feel the 350 00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:23.799 effects of the sin. And sometimes Paul speaks of that 351 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.279 whole class of human beings under the descent of Adam 352 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:31.240 as in sin. That does not equate to them being 353 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:35.599 actual sinners. It equates to them having the effects of sin. 354 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:41.680 So this is and literally no one believes this anymore, 355 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:45.519 that infants are damned except Calvinists. Roman Catholics don't believe 356 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:50.039 that infants are have inherited guilt. Maybe Lutherans do, I'm 357 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:52.519 not sure, but there's literally no one else that believes 358 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:55.039 this except for Calvinists. So you're not gonna be Orthodox 359 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:58.079 or Catholic if you believe that infants have actual sin, 360 00:18:58.119 --> 00:18:59.920 which is kind of stupid if you think about it. 361 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:04.599 My first point is when we look at Jesus, did 362 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.920 Jesus use tradition in the way that you would envision 363 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:11.319 it in your definition of tradition? 364 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:17.920 Yes? Could you show us that well, he specifically. 365 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:21.559 Could you give us the Eastern Orthodox definition and then show. 366 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:24.640 Us he specifically said that the Word of God was 367 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:27.559 himself and not the books to the Pharisees. 368 00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:32.559 No, you're not listening to me. 369 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.920 Right here we go, I'm asking you to give me 370 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:37.920 the definition of Eastern Orthodox. 371 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:39.119 You understanding of tradition? 372 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:42.480 Yeah, it's the full revelation, whether containing the written text 373 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:47.759 or the oral preaching of the apostles. How's that okay? 374 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.960 The faith once we're all committed to the saints. 375 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:54.160 Yeah, no, I think you're still don't give it a. 376 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:57.119 Full definition, right, and so you go make more YouTube videos. 377 00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:04.920 I don't want to know your thoughts are fully ocal. Okay, 378 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:10.599 go ahead, yeah, so yeah, so do you what's the 379 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:11.839 Orthodox position? Do y'all? 380 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:15.799 Do y'all deny that there's any procession of the Holy 381 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:16.680 Spirit through the Sun. 382 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.519 No, there is a procession through the sun, but it 383 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.200 is not his existential hypostatic origin. 384 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:26.200 Okay. 385 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:30.359 But if it's the case that the Holy Spirit, if 386 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:36.480 it's the case that the Holy Spirit proceeds through the sun, right, 387 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:40.559 then then what really is any difference between the Orthodox 388 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:42.720 position of philioko are. 389 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.160 Not because that's not the position that's laid out of 390 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:48.079 the Council of Lions in Florence. That position says that 391 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:51.759 there's a double eternal hyposthetic principle from the Father and 392 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:55.200 the Son, who function as a single principle of the 393 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.839 origin of the Holy Spirit. And that's something that we 394 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.279 can never accept because it gets to the sun, the 395 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:01.680 unique property that identifies the Father. 396 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:04.720 Well, you would you would agree that there's going to 397 00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:08.000 be a distinction between being begonton and being preceded. 398 00:21:08.079 --> 00:21:11.599 Right, that has nothing to do with what I just said. 399 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:15.519 Well, yes it does, because the Catholic like like you said, 400 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.039 the Catholic position is going to be that the Father 401 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:20.200