WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:16.239 Ready, get ready for it May twenty five, allegedly, according 2 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:19.039 to that thing we call a calendar, and this is 3 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:22.960 the Ocelli effect. Now we're working on a brand new 4 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:26.280 platform when it comes to communication with guests and all 5 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:30.719 that good stuff, and hopefully sound is all good. I 6 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:34.200 guess we'll find out later. I know the sound will 7 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:37.479 be okay, but will it be as as it was 8 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:39.320 and as it has been for the past I don't 9 00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:42.640 know decade that I had Skype in the mix. We'll 10 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:46.679 find out pretty soon. Anyway, working on teams. I have 11 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:49.880 one of my familiar guests though, and glad that he 12 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:52.280 sorted it out, because a lot of people have had 13 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:55.039 problems with the transition. But anyway, do you want to 14 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:59.520 hear about this? Nah, Let's talk about something else, and 15 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:01.759 let's get into the thing that seems to be on 16 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:07.879 everybody's mind everywhere. Wars, rumors of wars. People are at war, 17 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:11.040 there's a tariff war. Nobody's even talking about the war 18 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:13.920 on drugs. But people keep talking about the possibility of 19 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:17.159 a civil war in the United States. What about the 20 00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:20.319 war in Gaza? What about the war you know Israel? 21 00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:23.439 Is it? This? Is it that? How about the ceasefire, 22 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:27.400 the war? Is it a war? Actually? Special military operation 23 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:32.439 going on in Ukraine? What about the removal of the 24 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:35.359 foreign enemies and all that good stuff. Wait a minute, 25 00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:40.159 that's deportation nation. That's more of a domestic thing. No, no, no, 26 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:43.760 hold on. Plenty of wars to go around, plenty of 27 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:47.040 rumors of wars, And just when you thought maybe you 28 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:51.079 understood all of what was happening, here comes cashmir once again. 29 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:54.079 Who do I have with me? Larry Hancock, who is 30 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:57.439 the author on a great many books, by the way, 31 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:00.000 that occupy a large bit of space on my shelf, 32 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:03.840 but I recommend them all. Who knows which book we're 33 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:05.959 gonna have to refer to tonight. Maybe we'll have to 34 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.800 talk a little shadow warfare. Perhaps we're gonna have to 35 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:12.719 talk a little surprise attack. Maybe we're talking creating chaos. 36 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:16.639 I don't know. Stay tuned because it's wars and rumors 37 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:20.199 of wars with Larry Hancock. Go to larrydsh Hancock dot 38 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.120 com and check out his blog and check out what 39 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:26.479 he's thinking about, what he's written about. I obviously want 40 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:28.879 you to get his latest book, which is The Oswald Puzzle. 41 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:34.240 But guess what we're not talking Kennedy assassination tonight, Larry, 42 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:36.000 How you doing, I'm. 43 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:38.199 Doing okay, Chuck. And I've got to say from your 44 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:41.800 your synopsis there, chaos kind of leaps to the fray. 45 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:44.439 Hell yeah, that's that's where we all are. 46 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:49.360 And I saved it for last because I'm sorry, we're 47 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:52.520 gonna have to talk about Putin, who plays a prominent 48 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:55.840 role in the book creating chaos. But uh, but what 49 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:58.759 we're gonna have to talk about the realistic situation, right, 50 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:02.919 I mean, we we've had the supposed Seaspire, We've had 51 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:06.159 the actions going on, and then the amping up of 52 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:10.759 what action going on in Ukraine, attacks in cities where 53 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:15.680 it wasn't before. Seems like Seaspire actually meant redirect your fire. 54 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:19.479 And did anybody take a pause? Maybe they did? Oh, 55 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:22.039 by the way, what's happening in Gaza? Like I said, 56 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.199 I can't even keep track of it all at this point. 57 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:30.080 But then India and Pakistan, two nuclear powered nations staring 58 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:33.800 down the barrel at one another as they actually do 59 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:38.120 on a daily basis. Kashmir a continuous problem as far 60 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:41.360 as I don't know the past since I've been alive. 61 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:47.439 Maybe longer, I mean, and isn't it apropos because after all, 62 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:51.360 Pakistan came into existence about the same time that Israel did, 63 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.520 about a two year difference. I think, what was it 64 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.159 forty seven and forty five or somewhere in there, in 65 00:03:57.280 --> 00:04:02.960 the late nineteen forties, both Pakistan and Israel became nation states, 66 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:07.199 right if I got my history correct. But anyway, pay 67 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:10.439 no attention to that. Let's get back to the hot wars, 68 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:14.120 the Cold Wars, and the lukewarm of what's happening. And 69 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:16.240 people are talking about it like we're about to go 70 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:19.560 into World War three or turn to a civil war 71 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:23.519 here at home, one the other or both, and we 72 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:26.240 also have a tire of war happening. Larry, how do 73 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:29.720 we snap this all into context and get I don't know, 74 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:34.040 rational about it and avoid hyperbole? What do you think? 75 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:37.680 Yeah, I think one of the things it does come 76 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:41.040 back to terminology to a large extent, and you can 77 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:43.920 really get carried away if you don't, if you're not 78 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:47.040 rugorous about that. I mean, we can look back at 79 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:52.920 the so called world wars and bottom line, world war 80 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:57.160 means exactly what it says. It means a participant or 81 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:01.680 a group of participants fighting in you know, venues all 82 00:05:01.720 --> 00:05:05.040 around the globe. Now, did world wars happen? Are they 83 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:08.439 a new thing? Did they start with World War One? No? 84 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.639 They did not. You know, the American Revolution happened to 85 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:18.040 have occurred during a world war between two empires, French 86 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:23.519 and British. You know, the the creation of global empires 87 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:27.040 really laid the foundation to be, you know, to fight 88 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:30.240 around the globe. You know where there it was four 89 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:35.279 territories in India and chinamantegration. French fought for territories and 90 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:42.199 basically imperial rights in India and China throughout the South 91 00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:48.040 Seas in Latin America. So we we literally had world wars, 92 00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:51.079 but you had to have global reach, you know, your 93 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:54.560 your combatant had to have global reach. And that when 94 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.879 the empires went away, that that sort of faded out 95 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:03.519 until we we we enter the state of alliances and 96 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:08.160 packs and whether it was you know, the alliance that 97 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:14.720 brought about World War One. So that's global warfare. Global 98 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:18.240 warfare means just that you've got parties, whether it's an 99 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:23.120 empire fighting another empire or an alliance fighting another alliance, 100 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:26.439 all the way around the globe. That's not what we're 101 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:30.319 seeing right now, and quite frankly not what we're likely 102 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:34.160 to see. What we're seeing are wars around the globe. 103 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:38.560 I'm mad around the globe by different parties for different purposes, 104 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:42.800 you know. And one of the reasons why you're probably 105 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:47.000 not going to see the world war thing again is 106 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:51.959 because of atomic weapons, because you know, moving to that 107 00:06:52.040 --> 00:06:56.160 scale of warfare amps up things. So I think the 108 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:59.839 first is a definition of terms chuck, and that's the 109 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:04.439 to separate world war from world wars well. 110 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:09.600 And it is difficult because the nuclear armed nations is 111 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:13.199 an issue at all times. Right there are people that 112 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:19.439 are desperately afraid of or leary of, say Iran becoming 113 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:23.839 an armed nation with nuclear weapons. At the same time 114 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:29.439 we have India and Pakistan. They're both nuclear armed nations 115 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:30.959 as far as I know, I mean, I know, they 116 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:34.319 don't have the largest arsenals or whatever, at least last 117 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:37.720 time I checked. But then again, is anybody checking on that? 118 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:42.560 And they are constantly at odds with one another over 119 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:46.800 this region called Kashmir, which now we have new action there, 120 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:49.160 or at least that's what they're reporting to us in 121 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:54.279 the news, and it is a huge population in India. Oh, 122 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:57.680 by the way, there's also a rather large contingent of 123 00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:02.759 economic warfare have on the planet. So you know, there's 124 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:06.199 different things going on here. Right. There's the and like 125 00:08:06.279 --> 00:08:08.879 I say, the tariff war there that Trump has launched, 126 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:14.560 but also there's been economic warfare for a long time forever, really, right, 127 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:19.600 I mean, so the struggles are there. There are imperial 128 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:24.319 entities out there. They're not quite as prevalent as they 129 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:28.480 once were, it seems like. But there's multiple fronts all 130 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:31.560 over the place. I mean the US right now, Yeah, 131 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:32.279 go ahead. 132 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:36.320 I was going to say that again. You talk venues. 133 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:40.639 You know, one is weapons oriented hot war combat. But 134 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:46.120 in terms of actually world war quite frankly, we are 135 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:51.600 now in a world war economically, right, and the United 136 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:54.519 States started it. You know, there's just no doubt about 137 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:57.440 that because we have engaged with it in the nations 138 00:08:57.720 --> 00:09:01.519 around the globe. This is not it is US basically 139 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:05.639 moving to economic warfare. Whether you like it, where you 140 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:09.000 don't like it, you could classify that truly as a 141 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:13.039 world war. It's not just US engaged with China, just 142 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:17.519 US engaged with Canada. It's basically US engaged with everyone 143 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:21.039 who trades with US, So in that sense, I would 144 00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:23.480 amp that one up to say, oh, yeah, okay, this 145 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:26.200 one really is a world economic war. 146 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:31.320 Right, So world economic war is a given, and we 147 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.399 do have hot shooting events going on in various places, 148 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:40.320 but it's not on as many fronts or between large 149 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:46.200 alliances and empires like it was in the previous quote 150 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:49.399 world wars, right. I mean, I'm asking these questions. I'm 151 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:52.399 not trying to press you on it. I'm literally looking 152 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:54.759 at this going, well, how do we classify this because 153 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:57.879 there's a lot of shooting going on. You know, again, 154 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:02.159 I mentioned Gaza, I definitely mentioned in Ukraine. I definitely 155 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:07.360 want to mention Yemen and the various other places. I mean, 156 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:09.639 there's a lot of places that the news doesn't touch 157 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:12.639 too where we find out later well, you know, for 158 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:15.200 the past two years there's been this going on and 159 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.519 that going on, you know, and it just suddenly comes 160 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:21.000 up the moment, say a few US troops get killed 161 00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:23.879 in in action when they had not been killed in 162 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:27.559 the previous eighteen months of conflict. You know, stuff like 163 00:10:27.639 --> 00:10:30.639 that goes on as well, and there's a couple of 164 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:34.279 disruptions where some governments have been overthrown, even in the 165 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:38.360 past few months. Nobody's paying attention because we're arguing about 166 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:40.240 the price of eggs and things in the US. But 167 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:44.600 that's still happening too, right, Yeah. 168 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:48.080 And there's I mean, and it makes the news for 169 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:50.639 one day and then it goes away. There's as much 170 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:55.399 fighting going on in North Africa, and it's at an 171 00:10:55.480 --> 00:11:03.600 amazing level. And fighting that's going on with jet combat aircraft, 172 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:08.000 advanced military weaponry. You know, that is going on between 173 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:13.519 nations on the African continent, which actually in some sense 174 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:17.000 scaled up. It's not at the level of Ukraine and Russia, 175 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:20.320 but certainly at the moment it would be far greater 176 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.240 than the exchanges that India and Pakistan are having in 177 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:29.320 terms of fatalities, certainly in terms of collateral damage civilian deaths. 178 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:35.039 But because those nations don't have the visibility in the media, 179 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:40.639 you know, you just periodically hear about that. So it's 180 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:45.720 a fair statement to say that military combat is going 181 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:49.279 on around the globe. It's just a matter of but 182 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:52.480 it's one party against together again, that's the point I 183 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:56.039 was trying to make. Yeah, they may be supported, this 184 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:59.919 is it feels a lot more like the fifties and 185 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.879 sixties where there were you know, you could look at 186 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:06.679 the Congo, you could look at Angola, you could look 187 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:11.960 at Latin America, and you would find revolutions and combat 188 00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:15.240 going on all around the place. This we had kind 189 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:18.120 of drifted away from that at the end of the 190 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:22.159 last century, and in the first part of the century, 191 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.080 you know, there was a period of it just wasn't 192 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:31.440 at this same level, It wasn't at this this widespread, 193 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:35.600 and now it's back again, which almost kind of leads 194 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.320 you to like, have we recycled back to where we 195 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.799 were at the height of the Cold War, which was 196 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:45.799 never really cold other than the fact that you didn't 197 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:47.960 have nuclear exchange. 198 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:51.279 Well, and there it is, right, why do people even 199 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:55.159 care about Indian Pakistan clashing with each other over this 200 00:12:55.279 --> 00:13:00.399 area called Kashmir. It's got a long history. But the 201 00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:03.720 truth is, I think they didn't care so much until 202 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:06.200 what was it ninete in the mid nineties, I guess, 203 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:09.039 or late nineties, when all of a sudden there was 204 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:11.799 sort of an announcement that hey, India and Pakistan both 205 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:16.360 have nuclear weapons, and then it became wait a minute, 206 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:21.960 they're constantly escalating hostilities between one another. Could it be 207 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.759 that a smaller circumstance that is not a global one 208 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:31.519 could be turned into one if people start to engage 209 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:34.759 with nuclear weapons. And isn't that a worry because we 210 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:36.440 hear about it all the time. We heard about it 211 00:13:36.440 --> 00:13:39.480 over Ukraine, We've heard about it. Well, we don't hear 212 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:42.960 about it over Gaza, because in Gaza they're throwing rocks 213 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:47.440 at the IDF and they're clearly outgunned there. But you know, 214 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:49.759 what are you going to do? You're not looking at 215 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:54.120 nuclear escalation, but everywhere else where somebody has the bomb. 216 00:13:54.279 --> 00:13:56.600 We got a problem here. I mean, even though Israel 217 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.559 is a nuclear armed nation as well, we're not worried 218 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:03.519 that someone else might engage with them in that just yet. 219 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:06.399 Oh wait a minute, that's why they're worried about Iran. 220 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:11.200 And there we go. Right, it's the potential versus the 221 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:17.679 actual possibility of escalation in something that's really a limited engagement, 222 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:19.360 and right. 223 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:23.240 Limited nuclear warfare makes the difference. I think that's that 224 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:26.960 that takes us back to mutual assured destruction. You know, 225 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:32.360 when both the United States and the USSR had twenty 226 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:38.600 thousand megaton class weapons, you know, insanity is right on 227 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:46.519 the horizon it's it's self destruction. When when Pakistan and India, 228 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:52.720 or Iran in Israel or somebody might say, well we 229 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:57.960 can Putin is saying weekly, I mean literally, Putin is 230 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:01.360 saying over and over again, it's Oria's senior political people 231 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.879 that we could use one or two nukes on Ukraine 232 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:08.919 and settle all of this. You know, it's just at 233 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:10.679 some point they're going to force us to do that. 234 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.360 You know, that's that's not mutual. It's your destruction. That 235 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:19.240 that's where temptation sets in, you know, And and what's 236 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:23.000 to stop that? Who Nobody has stepped up and said, well, 237 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:25.840 right now, nobody is stepping up and say if you 238 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:30.440 do that, you're done because we will respond. We can't 239 00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.120 trust you. You're too much of a threat. You know. 240 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:36.799 So there are now people in position of using a 241 00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:42.919 limited number of smaller yield nuclear weapons. It's tempting to 242 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.480 do it because if you do it, you just immediately 243 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:50.360 won you know, like we've got like you know, Israel 244 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:52.960 is going to say, we've just got to settle this nonsense. 245 00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:56.240 Now is the time to use them where front before 246 00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:01.080 Iran gets them in quantity. Uh, you know, temptation sets 247 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:05.039 in at a level now that's way beyond, way below 248 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:09.000 mutual assurured destruction. That's the most worrisome thing. 249 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:13.480 And what's funny is I'm reminded very much of a 250 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:17.120 lecture I once attended. Believe it or not, Robert McNamara 251 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:23.639 was at NYU and was giving a lecture on matt 252 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:27.879 mutually a short destructive deterrent, you know, the concept of 253 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:30.399 it and how it was going to play out in 254 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:33.639 the very near future. And what's funny to me is 255 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:41.000 I'm seeing what McNamara actually was giving lectures on what 256 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:44.639 we're looking at today in a weird way, like he 257 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:52.000 was very much prognosticating about the circumstance we find ourselves 258 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:55.320 in currently where we're getting close to a time when 259 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:59.159 I think there will be limited nuclear engagements and then 260 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:04.079 knows where that'll go, because the larger nations will look 261 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:06.400 at it and say, now, do we contain this or 262 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.839 do we get involved? Do we just let them radiate 263 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:12.759 their part of the planet, or you know, there are 264 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:16.839 various options that come up here for the nations with 265 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:22.279 the larger arsenal arsenals, let's say, right, and that becomes 266 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.519 a whole other topic that thankfully we have not actually 267 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:28.079 faced that scenario yet. 268 00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:33.519 Yeah. I think the ugly underside of MAD was the 269 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.680 fact that it did work. It worked for a couple 270 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:40.799 of decades, and then it almost didn't work because that 271 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:44.160 someone had the bright idea or the fear, call it 272 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:48.240 an idea, call it fear, whatever, that if you could 273 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:54.039 execute decapitation strikes and literally break the chain of command, 274 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:59.079 take out the leadership, you could eliminate MAD because you 275 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.880 did away with the you know, the controls that would 276 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:05.559 launch your counter strike, and there you could get away 277 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:08.000 with it. Basically, you could cheat. If we can, if 278 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:12.440 we can decapitate the adversary, we're clear, it's clean, there's 279 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.039 going to be no matrixchange, and we won. They will 280 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:18.079 be you know, remove the leadership and you're done. And 281 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:23.640 the Soviets were extremely scared of that. In the nineteen 282 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:27.319 eighties we found we found out a couple of times, 283 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:30.519 uh and later in the nineties the first time they 284 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:34.400 were scared when they learned about our stealth capability. And 285 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:38.039 this we only learned after the fact because we saw 286 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:42.039 found internal Soviet documents saying that they thought the whole 287 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:47.519 point of our F one seventeen stealth fighter bombers was decapitation. 288 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:52.039 We could get in, take out their leadership, take out 289 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:56.359 their command and control system, and we're done. And they 290 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:01.000 they actually almost went to preemption and A four with 291 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:04.039 a preemptive strike, thinking we were preparing to do that 292 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.160 later on. They even looked at the possibility that we 293 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.079 were going to use the space shovel for that sort 294 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:11.440 of thing. 295 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:13.519 And that was during a weird time when they were 296 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:17.559 actually extremely preoccupied with the concept of Star Wars, which 297 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:21.559 Reagan was talking about, and they thought we had gone 298 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:25.039 further ahead in that program than we actually had, and 299 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.599 they thought about preemptive strikes in order to deal with it. 300 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:31.279 What's funny is in the late nineties, I don't know 301 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:33.759 if you ever saw this movie, but I always find 302 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:37.920 it interesting when Hollywood expresses some of these things and 303 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:41.359 sort of puts them out there in a long movie 304 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:45.079 form to sort of demonstrate certain things that are in 305 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:48.799 the zeitgeist at the moment. And in nineteen ninety nine 306 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:51.759 a movie called Deterrence was released. Do you ever see it? 307 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:54.759 That one doesn't ring a bell it? 308 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.519 Kevin Pollock plays the President of the United States, So 309 00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.000 there you go. That's exclusive way to look it. Up, 310 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:02.799 because I'm pretty sure that's the only time he ever 311 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:06.400 did that. But Kevin Pollock places president of the United 312 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:12.240 States and ends up looking an American city because there 313 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:17.839 was an accidental destruction of a Soviet or Russian city 314 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:22.920 right by American nuclear weapons, and the only way to 315 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:26.720 deter a full on nuclear exchange was for the president 316 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:31.200 to turn around and sacrifice one of our cities. So 317 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:34.559 we knoked one of our own major population areas to 318 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:38.599 counter to balance the fact that there had been an 319 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:47.240 accidental strike, which was another worry in various governments throughout 320 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:50.640 the eighties, nineties and into the early two thousands, the 321 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:54.279 concept of the accidental strike. You know, if you take 322 00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:57.400 people out of the loop and this and that there 323 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.680 might be issues or you know, so on and so forth, 324 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.480 what happens if pa drill goes live and things like this? 325 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:07.400 Right, Yeah, that that actually that theme I'm looking at 326 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.160 right up my bookshelf here, and that that was the 327 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:13.920 scenario in a movie and a novel called fail Safe 328 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:19.519 Too from the early sixties. That uh, the literally the 329 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:22.920 president had to accept the destruction, and that one has 330 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.880 not only had to had to accept the destruction of 331 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:28.559 the American city where his wife happened to be at 332 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:32.200 the time on a political campaign tour. But uh yeah, 333 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:36.559 that's a that's a that's a scenario. And you know, 334 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:39.799 not that all these scenarios have not been exploded by 335 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:43.160 people thinking about them. But what the concerning thing right now? 336 00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:46.119 That's why I use the word temptation. You know, it's 337 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:52.119 pretty clear that Israel is tempted to resolve its whole 338 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:59.880 Iranian problem by decapitation with It's pretty clear that that 339 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:05.359 would be a temptation for both India and Pakistan. It's 340 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.920 certainly right now a temptation for Putin because he keeps 341 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:15.000 threatening to eliminate the political political leadership in giv Right. 342 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:17.960 I mean, the temptation that you can get away free 343 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.680 and solve all your problems and not bear any pain 344 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:25.839 for it is probably the most worrisome thing going right now. 345 00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:30.839 I mean, this is no longer mad, that's it's it's 346 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.559 a temptation to use your weapons to solve all your 347 00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:38.680 problems and it's done. There's no more stress, no more tension. 348 00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:40.680 You do it all at once. 349 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:45.079 And in the aftermath of that, right, theoretically, the trouble 350 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:48.240 then becomes what are the other nations going to do 351 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.759 about it? Then what can they possibly accomplish? Are they 352 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:55.720 going to now decapitate you know the Russian government in response? 353 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.000 Is that something? Well, nobody thinks that that would happen 354 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:04.599 in response to the literal like say, if Kiev was nuked, right, 355 00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:09.039 would somebody turn around and nuke Moscow? You know, in 356 00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:12.720 order to balance out the sheet so to speak? Right? 357 00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:17.079 Probably not, and that calculation might come into play. Look, 358 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:20.799 I can solve my problems and then I whether the fallout, 359 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:25.319 sorry to use the expression politically, you know, on the 360 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:30.200 world stage, what would that do? That would likely isolate putin, 361 00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:34.279 That would likely, you know, create a circumstance where you 362 00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:37.279 have a pariah nation temporarily, but at the end of 363 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:37.599 the day. 364 00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:41.960 Then what that was the problem that the alliances were 365 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:44.880 supposed to solve. I mean, you can look at the 366 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:47.920 downside of the alliances, which led to World War One, 367 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:50.079 but you can look at the f side of the 368 00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:55.039 alliances because they were developed just to address that particular problem. 369 00:23:55.279 --> 00:24:00.480 If Ukraine were NATO, this would not be a problem, 370 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:04.680 would not be an option. There's no alliance that extends 371 00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:08.359 to Israel. There's no alliance that extends to Iran. There's 372 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:14.720 no alliance that extends really to India and Pakistan. I mean, 373 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:20.559 they have partners who supply them weaponry, but China is 374 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:25.680 not going to step in to support Pakistan. Russia is 375 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:29.359 not going to check you know. That's drifting away from 376 00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:31.799 these alliances. In one way, you can say, oh, well, 377 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.119 this is good. Things are much better now than when 378 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:39.039 we had NATO and SETO, and they never accomplished anything anyway. 379 00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:41.960 But then when you think about it a little bit longer, 380 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.839 it's like, well, maybe they did accomplish something, because when 381 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:50.559 they were in existence, we didn't. Nothing that bad really happened. 382 00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:56.880 Well, it created a systemic understanding of restraint, right, and 383 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:01.640 also protection both of them simultane right, So there was 384 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:05.759 protection for the lesser nations so that they wouldn't be decapitated, 385 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:10.160 and there was restraint on the side of the larger, 386 00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:14.440 the bigger boogeyman who had the weaponry because there would 387 00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:18.519 be serious consequences. I mean literally, I think people don't 388 00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:22.640 quite appreciate the idea that if you attack one nat donation, 389 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.160 it is supposed to be taken as an attack on 390 00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.000 all and if that's the case, I mean, sorry, that's 391 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.759 like street level gang mentality. You know, you attack one 392 00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:36.799 of us, you've attacked all of us, so we will 393 00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:39.920 behave and respond as if you attacked all of us. 394 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:44.039 That's the kind of thing that makes most people step 395 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:47.400 back and not want to take the extreme measures. So 396 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:52.839 but without those alliances or the unaligned nations that have 397 00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:57.039 their own centers of power, but also many partnerships on 398 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:01.680 many different levels, what does this mean? It makes it 399 00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:04.960 much more difficult to navigate, right, it. 400 00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:07.319 Does, and it sort of like makes you step back 401 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:10.240