WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.480 --> 00:00:04.280 Special Operations. 2 00:00:05.639 --> 00:00:08.599 Cobert SB and I. 3 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:17.120 The Teamhouse with your hosts Jack Murphy and David bark. 4 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:22.000 Hey. 5 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:24.480 Folks, this is episode three hundred and fifty nine of 6 00:00:24.519 --> 00:00:27.280 The Team House. I'm Jack here with Dave and our 7 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:30.839 guest on tonight's show is Clayton Smith. He served as 8 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:35.719 a recon platoon leader in Afghanistan, recipient of the Purple Heart. 9 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:39.399 A whole bunch of different experiences over in Afghanistan that 10 00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:42.520 we'll get into. But he also works with an organization 11 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:46.320 called Beyond EBO Gain that is b E O N 12 00:00:46.520 --> 00:00:50.280 D I b O G A I n E dot 13 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:53.759 com that's helping veterans and part of this movement of 14 00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:57.880 psychedelics being used to treat veterans that are dealing with 15 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:01.759 PTSD and other ailments. And so we got a lot 16 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:04.319 to talk about. Clayton, thank you for joining us tonight. 17 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:08.480 Yeah, thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate 18 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:12.560 being here on behalf of the Beyond team, the Beyond 19 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:16.640 Service Team and Beyond team down in Mexico. Super appreciate 20 00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:19.040 the ability to talk about the program that we're building 21 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:21.920 uh and and what we're you know, what we're doing 22 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:24.840 for veteran mental health first responders and their family members. 23 00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:28.280 You know, it's it's something I try to lead with 24 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:30.079 is you know, we hear about twenty two a day, 25 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:32.760 and it's time to do something about it rather than 26 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:33.159 just do and. 27 00:01:33.079 --> 00:01:34.120 Push ups on Facebook. 28 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:37.280 You know, it's time to actually end or make a 29 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:39.719 significant difference in this veteran suicide. 30 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:42.480 And you know, we'll talk about the family side of it. 31 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:45.200 But oh, by the way, everything that the families carry. 32 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.560 So yeah, IM super grateful to be here. Thank you 33 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:50.959 to your viewers and your audience as well. Uh, and 34 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:53.799 I'm really excited to share what we're doing and share 35 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:56.280 a little bit about about this medicine and and the 36 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:57.239 process that that we do. 37 00:01:57.640 --> 00:01:59.959 So Clayton, I'm going to store off asking you about 38 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:03.239 personal story and how that leads into all this other 39 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:05.760 work that you're doing today. Can you tell us a 40 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:08.560 little bit about you know, your origin story and what 41 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:11.039 took you towards military service as a young man. 42 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:12.960 Yeah, for sure. 43 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:16.120 So I I didn't really grow up in a military family. 44 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:20.919 I grew up very rural, small town Maine, you know, 45 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.639 a town of seven hundred people. I think I had 46 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:28.319 eleven kids in my elementary school class and you know, 47 00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:35.560 I blue collar, blue collar entrepreneur parents and who you know, 48 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:39.000 worked real hard, gave gave us, you know, a good life. 49 00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:43.280 Growing up one of one of six brothers and sisters, 50 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:45.400 and I was the runt of the litter. 51 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:46.840 I was the sixth of six. 52 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:55.280 And you know, I I I ended up going to 53 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:59.919 a military college after after high school, found out that 54 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:02.840 a RTC and and you know, play an army and 55 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:04.960 doing RTC was something I was pretty good at. 56 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:09.280 Signed a contract my second year, and then in two 57 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:12.120 thousand and nine, I commissioned missions and second lieutenant. And 58 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:15.400 you know, for me, it was just it was for me, 59 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:17.199 it was about getting out of getting out of Maine, 60 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:20.080 doing something different, trying to trying to do something different 61 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:21.960 than the folks that I grew up with and and 62 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:23.879 didn't have, you know, didn't have the best high school 63 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:26.360 experience and wanted to do something different with my time. 64 00:03:26.439 --> 00:03:29.199 And I'm also an idealist, so I thought that, you know, 65 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:30.960 that was that was a way to make the better 66 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:34.680 the world a better place, you know, keep the nine 67 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:37.360 to eleven generation veteran and and you know, I watched 68 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:40.039 nine to eleven when when I was in middle school, 69 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:42.000 and you know, I thought that you know, doing this 70 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:44.520 and raising my hand was the way to keep you know, 71 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:47.719 America safe and and made me make a positive impact 72 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:49.840 in the world. So so that's where that's where we 73 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:52.840 ended up putting gold bars on in two thousand and nine. 74 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:56.599 And answered the higher calling of serving in the airborne Infantry. 75 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:01.520 Yeah. Yeah, so I I say this is you know, 76 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.360 kind of to my mother's chagrin. I graduated with a 77 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:07.759 mechanical engineering degree and decided to go be an army ranger. 78 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:11.199 And she, you know, really wanted me to be you know, 79 00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:13.479 in the Navy or at the Air Force and you know, 80 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:17.079 do something employable after and you know, I thought, you know, 81 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:19.120 girls might like it if I was an army ranger. 82 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:21.600 So that was that was the extent of the decision 83 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:24.680 making as pretty much you know, ninety five percent of 84 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:25.759 the guys that go that route. 85 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:30.399 Yeah, a tale as old as time. Yeah, exactly, exactly. 86 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:37.519 So you commission as a infantry lieutenant, what's the next 87 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:39.120 phase of your journey? I mean, they send you to 88 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:40.680 ranger school right away, right. 89 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:44.240 Yeah, So you know I didn't. I wasn't. I wasn't 90 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:46.480 a West Point guy. So all the West Pointers get 91 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:48.959 to go first, So I got to got to hang 92 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:51.519 out in limbo there at Fort Benning. So I spent 93 00:04:51.560 --> 00:04:53.439 about a year and a half at Fort Benning between 94 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.120 you know, the Infantry school and different officer leader courses 95 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:01.639 and then finally going to ranger. All real rangers recycle, 96 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:06.199 so I got to take the extended day. I got 97 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:09.079 to do Darby twice as a result of my own 98 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:12.600 ego and action, So I'll own that. And then you know, 99 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:16.160 eventually after eventually I made it through and headed up 100 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:18.720 to Alaska. So my my duty station was was it 101 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:22.879 Fort Richardson up and up in Alaska with the four 102 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:23.319 two five? 103 00:05:25.319 --> 00:05:28.360 And correct I correct me if I'm wrong, But that 104 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:31.759 unit was like relatively new as an airborne unit, wasn't it. 105 00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:36.240 Yeah? I think they stood up in six or seven, 106 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:39.079 and it was they they had an seven deployment to 107 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:42.399 Iraq and a twenty ten deployment to Afghanistan. And I 108 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:46.120 got up there followed twenty ten right after they pretty 109 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.720 soon after they got back from their first Afghanistan deployment. 110 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:52.360 You know, just I'm gonna probe a little bit more 111 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:54.759 about this, you know, do you know what the rationale 112 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:58.199 was of putting placing an airborne unit in Alaska. 113 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:00.680 Was was there like a strategic purpose for that? 114 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:04.920 Yeah, so, I mean I certainly wasn't making decisions. My 115 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:06.680 understanding is it was the you know, we were the 116 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:09.399 only airborne unit in user Pak, so in the in 117 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:12.680 the Pacific theater, we were the only you know, because 118 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:15.879 you add one hundred and seventy third in Sentcom and 119 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:18.319 Europe and of course the eighty second, but we were, 120 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:21.480 uh so there was like we were on a two 121 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:23.959 hour QRF even for like humanitarian missions. 122 00:06:23.959 --> 00:06:24.439 So I don't know if you. 123 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:27.600 Guys remember there was the tsunami and I think it 124 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:32.199 was the Fukushima nuclear plant probably you know, disaster in Japan. 125 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:34.839 We were on a two hour recall to go to 126 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:38.199 Japan on humanitarian because we were the closest you know, 127 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:40.319 we were the closest airborne unit that could get into 128 00:06:40.480 --> 00:06:42.920 the Pacific theater. So that's that's why they had us there. 129 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:44.920 That's interesting. 130 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:50.360 So tell us about kind of getting into your platoon, 131 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:53.480 meeting the guys, what that experience is like being a 132 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:55.319 new pl. 133 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:59.120 Yeah, so I definitely had you know, so I had 134 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:01.639 two different platoons that I had the privilege to lead. 135 00:07:01.959 --> 00:07:04.079 The first one I went to a like a standard 136 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:08.040 line unit and let A let A platoon had a 137 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:10.000 great group of n c os, you know, and and 138 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:12.399 I certainly, you know, tried to do my best to 139 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:14.319 listen to the n c os in all the officer 140 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:16.800 courses and just shut up, you know, just just shut 141 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:20.079 up and listen. Don't go in there and try to 142 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:22.879 put your stamp on anything. You know, what the the 143 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:24.959 guys are doing that, they've been doing it for a reason. 144 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:29.480 And I had a really just solid, you know, really 145 00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:31.319 my group of n c os that I came to 146 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:35.360 it for my first platoon was if you could have 147 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:39.920 you couldn't have a better group to mentor a lieutenant 148 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:42.279 who was you know. And and after about a month 149 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:44.319 of just showing up and saying teach me, they they 150 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:46.800 did and they schooled me up. And you know, I 151 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:49.000 wouldn't have been as successful in my career if it 152 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:52.120 wasn't for them. And then nine months later we did 153 00:07:52.120 --> 00:07:54.279 our e I BS. I was one of the lieutenants 154 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:57.399 to get their e I B Expert Infantry Badge and 155 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:01.639 I was moved over to the Scout Reconnisance Platoon. So 156 00:08:01.639 --> 00:08:04.600 there's one reconnaissance platoon in a in a I guess 157 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:06.879 in an airborne infantry battalion, and I had the privilege 158 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:11.560 to lead that. Woh, that was a different situation, man. 159 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:14.839 Like those those guys were those n c os. They 160 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:16.439 were not They didn't want to build you up. They 161 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:19.160 wanted to chew you, chew you up, and you know 162 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:23.319 you had to. It took it probably took six months 163 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:25.399 of proving myself day in day out. You know. 164 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:28.319 It was, uh, can you know you. 165 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:29.639 Go for a rock march and you got to put 166 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:31.920 a forty five pound plate in your pack because got 167 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:34.960 you know, there is no way that that sergeant Fenton 168 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:36.600 is going to have a lighter ruck than I am. 169 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:40.559 And oh man, you know that was a crucible of 170 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:46.039 those guys. But they they were fiercely passionate about their soldiers, 171 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:50.480 like incredible NCOs and and once you were in their trust, 172 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:53.240 it was it was a team that I I I 173 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:55.559 can't believe still that I had the privilege to be 174 00:08:55.639 --> 00:08:58.240 a part of. We did eighteen months of train up together, 175 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.559 which is abnormal for or for a lieutenant and uh, 176 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.000 you know in a at least a line platoon or 177 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:08.440 conventional military to have the eighteen months to train up 178 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:11.039 together and then go down range together like it was. 179 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:14.799 It was a it was a dream come true, and 180 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:17.320 I was exposed to so much more than I would 181 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:18.000 have normally. 182 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:20.840 I imagine you guys doing a lot of like snowshoe 183 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:21.679 training up there. 184 00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:26.080 Yeah, snowshoe a lot of You know, when you when 185 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:29.759 you jump in the winter in Alaska, you know it's 186 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:33.000 you have, especially a night jump, you have a fifty 187 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:34.639 to fifty chance you're either going to hit a snow 188 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:36.440 drift and it's going to be the softest landing of 189 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:38.440 your life, or you're going to hit the sheet of 190 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:42.200 ice that snow blew off of and it's going to 191 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:44.120 you know, it's going to hit you like a truck. 192 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:47.120 So a lot of that and then a lot of 193 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:48.960 cold walk back from. 194 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:49.919 The d Z. 195 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:50.320 You know. 196 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:53.320 The the way we trained our our platoon and the 197 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.200 way we did it was, you know, even if the 198 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:57.080 rest of the Italian was getting picked up on buses, 199 00:09:57.080 --> 00:10:00.360 we were walking our happy asses home and an you know, 200 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:02.720 that paid off downrange, and and it did because the 201 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:07.360 guys we really we really took the mentality of you know, 202 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:10.360 practice should be harder than the game, and and it 203 00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:13.120 paid off. You know when we when we went down range, 204 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:15.720 because it was honestly, it was nothing. If we had 205 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:17.000 to if we had to get out and walk for 206 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:19.639 eight miles, that was it was. It was what we 207 00:10:19.639 --> 00:10:20.279 were used to doing. 208 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:24.159 So and you know, as you're going through this extensive 209 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:26.320 train up, I mean, what is the mission that you're 210 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:28.399 training for? What what are you guys being brief at 211 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:30.360 that time that you're going to go into. 212 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.799 Yeah, so we were we were kind of our our 213 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:41.000 platoon was on paper supposed to we're a reconnaissance element, 214 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:42.519 but we were also supposed to be a bit of 215 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:46.559 a kinetic element at the battalion commander's discretion. Uh So 216 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:48.159 we were you know, we knew we were going to 217 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:52.039 be centrally located within the battalion's AO, and we were. 218 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:55.039 They were kind of two. We had a sister battalion 219 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:57.799 within the brigade, and we knew that, you know, our 220 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:01.879 reconnaissance platoon and and our sister one and the other battalion, 221 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:04.919 we're going to be a mix of kinetic and a 222 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:11.279 mix of reconnaissance work, which I mean in in twenty twelve, 223 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.519 you know, and even more so now reconnaissance work is 224 00:11:14.600 --> 00:11:16.799 kind of more just like train denial, using sniper teams 225 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:19.279 to do to do train denial. It wasn't you know, 226 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:23.519 we had as you guys know so much ir that 227 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:27.039 that it wasn't like we were going and just sitting 228 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:28.519 on a ridge line to see if there were trucks. 229 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:30.159 You know, we knew there were trucks, right. 230 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:34.600 It's also a very difficult area to do recky in 231 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:39.000 just because you know those little villages, everybody knows the train. 232 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:42.200 They're all out there walking around all the time, and 233 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:45.440 it's very hard to remain you know, you know, to 234 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:47.279 not get your not get blown. 235 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:51.799 Yeah, I mean it's not like there, you know, as 236 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:54.919 soon as those American trucks leave the gate or you know, 237 00:11:55.080 --> 00:11:57.279 it's kind of hard to hide a chinook in a 238 00:11:57.399 --> 00:11:59.679 in a high altitude desert when it when it's landing 239 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:01.840 on a rich line. Yeah, I get there. There is 240 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:04.679 really no such thing as a as an infiltration in 241 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.720 the in the classic WRECKI sense so. But a lot 242 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:10.799 of train denial, a little bit of kinetic work, that's 243 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:12.399 what we're that's what we were training up to do. 244 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:14.279 Hey, guys, it's your pal Jack. 245 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:15.679 I just want to take a moment to tell you 246 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:17.679 about the sponsor for this show, which. 247 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:18.240 Is stop Box. 248 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:25.000 Stop Box makes this very cool box to secure your 249 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:31.080 items in where your valuables or weapons could be a firearm, knife, 250 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:35.440 things that you want to keep away from kids. 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I had two rekie teams which were kind 277 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.440 of like six man. 278 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:13.840 Strong fire teams. 279 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:17.519 Light squads that were that were our kinetic element. Those 280 00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:20.879 guys were they were they they did eighty percent kinetic, 281 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:25.200 were twenty percent reconnaissance work. And then we actually we 282 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:27.399 this was this wasn't in the MTOE. This is something 283 00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:29.399 that we wanted to do and we brought in was 284 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:33.200 we had a kind of a heavy weapons team and 285 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:36.039 it wasn't a traditional infantry heavy weapons squad. 286 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:38.120 It was five guys, so. 287 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:41.399 Kind of a team leader, squad leader, and then to 288 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:43.799 two forties and you know, they carried, they were they 289 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:46.159 they were the boys with strong backs, and it gave 290 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.759 us gave us a lot more tactical flexibility when we 291 00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:53.000 could drop in, you know, whether we had our own 292 00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:56.200 mortars with us. We had heavy guns. You know, it 293 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:58.840 just gave us a lot more flexibility. We had long guns, 294 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:01.440 we had two forties, we had orders, and then we 295 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:03.840 had two kinetic teams that that could go do their things. 296 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:05.799 So it was fun. Like as as an as a 297 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:07.600 platoon leader, it was what you dreamed of, like you 298 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:13.039 had all the resources and you had hard charging n 299 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:15.200 c O s and then a bunch of E one 300 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.320 to E fours that were really strong and vollied orders 301 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.279 like it was. It was the ideal situation as a 302 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:21.159 as a platoon leader. 303 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.039 And so tell us about getting through Afghanistan, and I 304 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:28.679 believe you said earlier the mission changed. 305 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:28.919 A little bit. 306 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:32.919 Yeah, so about two months before we before we hopped 307 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:36.919 on planes, we are AO shifted and we covered down. 308 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:39.720 There was a we went. We ended up going to 309 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:42.879 the Paktia province and there was a National Guard unit 310 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:46.759 that was there before us, and they were having some struggles. 311 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:48.159 It was like two or three years of. 312 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:49.159 National Guard. 313 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:53.720 AO management and they were they're having some struggles. So 314 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:57.879 we were repurposed and Big Army sent us into Paktia. 315 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:01.360 And yeah, so we we kind of had to learn 316 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:03.519 the area. We had to learn the hot spots mostly 317 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:07.600 on the fly. And then we also what we were 318 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:10.320 not prepared for at all was we. 319 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:12.360 Were the because of the because of the. 320 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:14.840 Unit getting pulled out was infantry and MP, and we 321 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:17.320 were getting like an MP or excuse me, an infantry 322 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:20.879 and airborne infantry and a replacing We actually I had 323 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:24.840 to I was the only or my platoon, our reconnaissance 324 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:29.480 platoon was the only conventional element in our FOB because 325 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:31.960 everyone else was spread out. So we had to own 326 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.879 a partnership with the Afghan police, the AUP, and the 327 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:39.360 Afghan Army and the Afghan commandos that were across the 328 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:42.480 street with the s F guys. So about six weeks 329 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:44.360 before we went down range, we figured out where we 330 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:46.399 learned we were going to be training police officers and 331 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:48.840 we had to get you know, that was not at 332 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:51.039 all in the train ups. So we had to to 333 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:54.639 get smart on r OE and and you know the 334 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:56.679 things that that you when you have to train a 335 00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:01.120 foreign national force and also police and arm So. 336 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:06.119 Uh, tell us about your first night in combat and 337 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:06.759 what happened. 338 00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:13.960 Yeah, so first night, we truly truly first day ended 339 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:17.599 up getting off the helicopters. Half foot platoon is there. 340 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.279 We're starting our left seat, right seat with the so 341 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.480 that the unit that we're replacing where we're start starting 342 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:28.240 the process. So you know, we're we're laying out inventory 343 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:31.440 and looking at serial numbers. And then there was a 344 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:37.119 QRF response, so we were the quick Reaction Force assigned 345 00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:39.720 to our FOB for that time. And there was a 346 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:45.039 predator drone, an armed predator had crashed in Rao and 347 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:49.640 we had to go secure it, and so hoping trucks 348 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:51.920 and I mean, look, I did a lot of train up. 349 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:54.119 I was still a cherry lieutenant, so like, how do 350 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:56.640 you how do you get your headphone connected to the truck, 351 00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.400 where's the combat lock? How do you? Like? Look, I was, 352 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.200 I was a soup sandwich leaving the gate and and 353 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.480 I was like, holy cow, this is real. This is 354 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:10.519 this is getting getting real. Roll out the gate and 355 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.400 we you know, I mean, the first part of the 356 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.279 day was very boring, and as as you guys know 357 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:18.200 and probably a lot of your listeners know, it's it's 358 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.480 ninety boredom with with ten percent moments of chaos. 359 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:23.440 So we went out, we. 360 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:25.960 Secured this drone. The Air Force flew in their guys 361 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.319 and and also a couple other units came out to 362 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.880 help secure the site. Air Force flew in their people. 363 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:36.000 They cut out all the sensitive equipment. We recovered the 364 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:40.960 the missiles. Found the missiles, EO D went to go 365 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:41.960 dispose of them. 366 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:42.759 And. 367 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:49.240 Right before EO D set off the charge to destroy 368 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:52.640 the missiles that that were recovered, there was a like 369 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:57.839 a ground shaking explosion and as it turns out, one 370 00:18:57.880 --> 00:18:59.960 of our one of the units that was out there 371 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:05.000 there to recover this predator, they left early. And so 372 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.119 we had a whole route clearance package. We had EOD 373 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.480 and then you had us as a as the dismounted 374 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:15.319 security like we had a full convoy package that made 375 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:17.680 it out there. I mean, we were all sprinting to 376 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.319 get out there. We had we had our legit. We 377 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.440 had a logistics convoy that had to recover the drone 378 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:24.799 like we were. We were probably twenty twenty five trucks 379 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:26.960 at that point, and we were going to convoy home 380 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.839 and do a route clearance. Well a you know, this 381 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:33.640 other unit for whatever reason, they decided to leave early 382 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:38.200 and they went home the same way they came in, 383 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:40.359 and there was a three hundred and fifty pound id 384 00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:44.720 UH under the road and it was the same road 385 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:47.400 that we drove in on, same road we drove in on. 386 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.160 But you know, and at least in that time, in 387 00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:55.519 the area we were in, we could defeat the remote 388 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.440 detonated IDs. We had a way to defeat those, and 389 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:00.960 then pressure plate IDs. You could defeat those because we 390 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.039 had mine rollers on the front of all of our trucks. 391 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:07.440 But there was there was no way to defeat a 392 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:11.559 command wire. And so they, as we found out, they 393 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:14.720 ran a command wire three hundred yards away, you know, 394 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:17.559 and there was I'm sure a dude on a motorcycle 395 00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.799 just waiting waiting for the trucks to come by, and 396 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:23.559 he knew where his culvert was, he knew his aiming points, 397 00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:25.519 and the trucks were lit up with their marker lights. 398 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:29.680 And the blast crater was about six feet deep ten 399 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:34.480 feet wide. It flipped a max bro on its roof. 400 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:37.559 It actually flipped it twenty feet in the air. It 401 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:40.640 bounced off a kalot wall and then dropped down to 402 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:45.519 the bottom of the clot And you know, we instantly 403 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:49.039 responded to that because i mean, you had the like 404 00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:51.799 the blue force tracker display and then all of a sudden, 405 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:54.759 the radio blows up and one of the icons goes 406 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:57.720 gray like you kind of know, even without knowing, you 407 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:01.119 kind of know what's going on. And at that point 408 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:06.039 I ended up being the the facto ground force commander, 409 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:10.319 so we had to secure the crash site. Unfortunately, there 410 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.839 were three American k as, there were two or three 411 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.279 wounded that survived, so we were having to secure secure 412 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:24.720 an LZ callin medovax. We were uh NAFCAN and police 413 00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:26.920 are out there, so we could kick doors down and 414 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:28.880 go into buildings and try to find if we could 415 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:29.640 find the triggerman. 416 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:32.119 It was a it was a rough night. 417 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:33.799 It was a it was a rough night, and it 418 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.599 was definitely a baptism. I mean this was I was 419 00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:39.920 twelve hours into sixteen hours into being on the ground 420 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:44.359 at our FOB and hooking a change to a bumper 421 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:47.759 of a of a Ford Ranger and uh going into 422 00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:52.000 a Collot nods down rifle up with three of my 423 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:55.759 n c o's. So that was a hell of a 424 00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:59.079 hell of a start to to a deployment and it 425 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:02.559 and it really it was unfortunate that it happened. It 426 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:07.960 was preventable, and it really reinforced me just how quickly 427 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:10.640 things can go wrong if you're sloppy. 428 00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:17.319 And that turned into a pretty busy deployment for you 429 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:18.599 guys after that, didn't it. 430 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:23.160 Yeah, so we were we were outside the wire. I 431 00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:26.799 didn't as events happened later, I didn't. I didn't stay 432 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:29.880 as a stune leader the whole time, But our first 433 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.880 hundred days in country, I think we were outside the wire. 434 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:35.440 Ninety of those hundred days in some way, whether it 435 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:39.519 was multi day, single day, you know, convoys, logistical support, 436 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.759 we were. We were outside the wire. Yeah, ninety of 437 00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:43.720 one hundred days. 438 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.359 And you said that you had to respond to pretty 439 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.279 much every mascal situation in your sector that year. 440 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:57.279 Yeah. Personally, it just it just shook out. And I 441 00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:00.480 don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure that I 442 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.960 ended up being the ground force commander for the three 443 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:08.000 major mass casualties in RC East in twenty twelve. One 444 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:12.599 was that first night with the ied, The other was 445 00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:16.119 the day that myself and five others were awarded purple hearts, 446 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:22.039 and then the third was there was a suicide vehicle 447 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.160 ID in a marketplace that killed two or three Americans, 448 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.799 an interpreter, and about twenty local national afgcans in the market. 449 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.799 And I wasn't even supposed to be there. I was 450 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:38.680 on a convoy returning three vehicles. At that point, I 451 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:41.079 was an exo. I wasn't even leaving the wire. 452 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:41.960 I was an exo. 453 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:44.440 And we had to put nine guys together to go 454 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:47.759 return some trucks to a depot on the other side 455 00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:50.480 of a pass. And I was gonna drive there in 456 00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:54.880 a twenty vehicle thirty vehicle logistics convoy, drop off the trucks, 457 00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:00.319 take a helicopter home that next day, and ended up, uh, 458 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.240 you know, getting ambushed in the past and destroying a truck, 459 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:06.759 having to fight our way out of the past and 460 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:09.680 then respond to the suicide vehicle. 461 00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:13.720 So yeah, so the so the close, the close ambush 462 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:14.799 and the s V B I E. 463 00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:20.160 D thing, it's like all connected. Yeah yeah we should Yeah, okay, 464 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:20.680 can you. 465 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:22.640 Tell us so if you're okay, tell us a little 466 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:25.440 bit more like detail about you know, running into that 467 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:28.240 ambush and the rest of the events that day. 468 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:31.400 Yeah. So, I mean that's that day separate from when 469 00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:34.839 when the purple heart. Yeah. Yeah, those those were a 470 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:36.960 couple of months apart. So after after I got my 471 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.359 purple heart, and because it was you know, it was 472 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:44.440 it was a result of concussion TB I. I was 473 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:47.200 moved out of my platoon leager position like I couldn't. 474 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:49.799 I could. I was medically cleared to go on patrol. 475 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:52.519 But it was like a month or two and I was. 476 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:54.960 I was rotated out. So so yeah. 477 00:24:54.759 --> 00:24:56.359 Those are those are two separate incidents. 478 00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:00.279 But yeah, take us, Why don't you take us through 479 00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:02.000 the SVB I D first. 480 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:07.839 Yeah, So that day that was the the SVB I 481 00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.519 D was the was the logistics convoy where we were 482 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:14.319 turning trucks in and uh, you know, we had a 483 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:20.039 route clearance package. We had a I don't know, fuel 484 00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:22.240 had to get moved by local national trucks. So we 485 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:25.279 had a we had like a twenty truck fuel convoy 486 00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:28.839 with extra containers and food was moving and we just 487 00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:30.799 jumped in that with our trucks that had to go 488 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:35.359 get turned in to the supply depot Salerno. And so 489 00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:38.279 I just I grabbed. At this point, I was the 490 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.200 company executive officer. So I grabbed a handful of my 491 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:46.319 scouts who were they They were going on on midtor 492 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.880 leave and they were flying out of Salerno and I 493 00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:52.440 and I went and sold them, well, boys, sorry, you 494 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:54.640 don't get to take a helicopter there, you got to 495 00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:58.160 take an eight hour convoy. Uh glad I did. And 496 00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:00.400 then a couple of a couple of the other headquarters guys. 497 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:04.240 So we we did minimal manning, minimal radios, minimal you know, 498 00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:06.319 load out because everything we took there we had to 499 00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:09.559 fly home with. And so we took this minimal load out. 500 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.160 And then going through the KG pass the coast Guard 501 00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:19.240 does pass super windy mountain pass, get hit with an 502 00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:24.599 RPG ambush our trail truck. It's like, why did they 503 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:26.279 have to pick us? Man? There is a bunch of 504 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:30.440 other ones trail trail truck RPG straight through the radiator 505 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:35.839 disabled pass. This the driver this might have been his 506 00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:38.680 first time outside the wire driving. He was a supply 507 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:42.000 clerk and managed to get the truck kind of half 508 00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:43.720 into the ditch instead of going off the cliff. 509 00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:44.839 So that was helpful. 510 00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:48.160 And then you know, I mean, dude, we were like, 511 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:50.519 it's not like we weren't prepared, but like we had 512 00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:52.160 weapon systems on these trucks. 513 00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:52.240 That we had. 514 00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:54.599 There are the weapon systems that you use day and 515 00:26:54.680 --> 00:26:57.880 day out, and then there's the ones that you don't. 516 00:26:58.079 --> 00:26:59.799 And we were in the case that you don't. So, 517 00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.559 you know, sometimes we had like the remote weapons system 518 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:05.279 where you stay inside the truck and use like the 519 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:07.720 video camera to aim while that went down. So I've 520 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:10.240 got one of my NCOs is on the roof of 521 00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:14.160 a truck, and I mean, this is a knockdown, drag 522 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.000 out gunfight in the past, and he's on the roof, 523 00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:18.400 standing on top of the turret trying to manually aim 524 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:20.720 the two forty while the guy inside squeezing the trigger. 525 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:23.000 It was. It was chaos. 526 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.359 We could only communicate with air support using theft because 527 00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:30.799 we were in a hole with no radios. Satellites went down. 528 00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:32.440 It was just it was just one of those things 529 00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:36.240 where you just get out of there. So we hooked up, 530 00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:38.799 you know, another truck came back, We laid down covering fire, 531 00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:41.000 hooked up a tow rope, and then just dragged everyone 532 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:43.519 out of the pass and regroup a couple of miles 533 00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:44.039 down the road. 534 00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:48.240 And then and then you had to get to the market. Right. 535 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.079 Well that was so now we're we're dragging you know, 536 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:55.000 a destroyed truck into into town. 537 00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:57.119 We've got one destroyed truck. 538 00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.880 We've got you know, my truck is gon ricochets and 539 00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:05.000 holes in it. And you know they the like water 540 00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:07.319 drug was had a bullet hole. Like. It was just 541 00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:09.319 it was a firefighter, right like, So we're just limping 542 00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:10.279 our asses into town. 543 00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:11.480 Uh. 544 00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:15.920 And then you know when something's wrong when you get 545 00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:17.960 into town and all the doors are shut and there's 546 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:18.799 no one in the street. 547 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:22.599 It was that, you really something's wrong. 548 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.759 And and a mile later, the route clearance half mile 549 00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:29.720 later the route clearance uh stopped and it was like, 550 00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:31.519 you know, they called for all medics and the convoy 551 00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:34.160 to come up, and it was it was, it was bad. 552 00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:35.000 It was it was. 553 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:38.480 Really bad again like the the. 554 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:40.559 It was a it was I think an MP unit 555 00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:45.400 that was hit. They were totally combat and effective. You know, 556 00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.160 we had to they they lost enough of their leadership 557 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:51.519 that they were completely combat and effective. So we had 558 00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:54.720 to triage and get there. Fortunately, we were only five 559 00:28:54.759 --> 00:28:57.480 miles from the actual FOB, so we were able to 560 00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:02.279 get the wounded loaded and out. It would be quicker, 561 00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:04.000 you know, we did a vehicle e back instead of 562 00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:08.039 a helicopter. We got the wounded in the trucks and 563 00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:11.640 and got them out of there and uh, then we 564 00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:15.440 stayed and picked up the pieces, and it was it was. 565 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:16.960 It was messy, man, it was. 566 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:19.880 It was one of those days that you don't forget, 567 00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:25.359 and you know, when you're I'll never forget. 568 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:28.119 Having to climb in. We were in matt vs. 569 00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:28.880 So they were like. 570 00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:33.079 Souped up humbies. So two seats in the two seats. 571 00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:36.319 In the back, and a gunner in the middle, and 572 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.519 you know, I had to go in and and we 573 00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:40.240 ran out of room to put the casual, you know, 574 00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:44.000 the the k I A the deceased, and so I 575 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.079 had to climb in and tell my gunner and was like, hey, man, 576 00:29:46.119 --> 00:29:48.559 I'm sorry, but you have to you know, we had 577 00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:50.359 to fill these seats and you got to lift them 578 00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:50.680 in there. 579 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:53.559 And that was a that. 580 00:29:53.559 --> 00:30:00.119 Was a day you never forget. Just the complete, the 581 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:04.039 the complete, indiscriminate loss of life. 582 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:04.839 Yeah. 583 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:08.319 And just to contextualize this a little bit, you're a 584 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:11.000 how old XO at this point in time? 585 00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:14.960 Twenty six, yeah, twenty six years old, and. 586 00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:16.720 Your boys were like eighteen nineteen. 587 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:22.000 Yeah, man, I am in the in the yeah nine 588 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:23.880 eighteen nineteen, twenty twenty one ish. 589 00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:27.480 Yep, yep, yeah. 590 00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:29.759 You know the kid, the kid that the guy that 591 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:32.599 you know had to lift those two deceased bodies into 592 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:34.519 the back of our truck. Might have been twenty one 593 00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:35.920 years old, twenty two years old. 594 00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:37.599 Yeah, yep, YEA. 595 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:41.680 Our first night, we had a that that first night 596 00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:44.200 that I e that we were talking about and this 597 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:46.279 is this is why I'm so passionate about the work 598 00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:50.279 that I'm doing as well. That that first night we 599 00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:55.119 were pulling wounded and kia out of the out of 600 00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:57.440 the truck that was hit with the IE, and we 601 00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:00.160 got a call that we think we found were the building. 602 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.480 The trigger man we you know, ISR says, we think 603 00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:05.279 we've got something. So I had to to take my 604 00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:08.000 rt o my radio. My radio guy is kind of 605 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:09.960 supposed to be attached at the hip with me, and 606 00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:15.319 this was his first deployment, first twelve hours being down range, 607 00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:17.319 and I had to look him in the eye and say, 608 00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:19.799 hey man, you got to pull these bodies out because 609 00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:23.559 I have to go. And you know, I had to 610 00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:26.759 go lead the kinetic part of it, and to leave 611 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.599 this guy who, you know, his only crime in life 612 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.759 was being really good at running a radio, and now 613 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:38.720 he's he's exposed to what what has to be an 614 00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:43.680 incredibly traumatic event and the fortunately, you know that night 615 00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:48.279 and I tried to whenever possible put my NCOs in 616 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:50.720 the shittiest spots, and and there was a lot of 617 00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:53.200 respect for that, you know, mutual respect, Like they knew 618 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:54.400 I was going to take the shitty job, and I 619 00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:56.519 was gonna give them the shitty job. And the guys 620 00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:58.440 that were you know, privates and specialists were going to 621 00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:02.839 pull security instead of pull pulled out of trucks. But 622 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:05.359 there's just sometimes there's no walking back from that, you know, 623 00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:07.039 when you're twenty years old. 624 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:11.559 Yeah, hey, guys, our show is sponsored by ghost bed 625 00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:15.079 Check them out. Please to make awesome mattresses, awesome pillows, 626 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:19.680 awesome betting. Ghostpread provides high quality, is super comfortable, award 627 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:23.519 winning mattresses crafted in the US and Canada. Did you 628 00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:26.039 know that sixty percent of US adults report being too 629 00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:28.559 hot when they're trying to sleep? That's me, I'm a 630 00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:31.720 sweaty little baby. 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I love ghost Sped. 672 00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:40.119 Thanks guys. Tell us about that. 673 00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:43.719 Then the the urban ambush where you were awarded the 674 00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.280 Purple Heart and so were many of your soldiers. 675 00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:49.719 Yeah, that was it was tax day. Well, I'll never 676 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:52.440 forget it is April fifteenth, so you always remember his 677 00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:57.440 tax day and so you know we were we were 678 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.079 at a point at least in twenty twelve in the 679 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.400 AO that we were in. You know, we we would 680 00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:06.639 say that kind of all the dumb ones were dead, 681 00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:10.639 the dumb terrorists were dead. You know, these guys knew 682 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:14.199 that we outgunned them, they knew that we could hear them, 683 00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.079 they knew that we could see them, they knew we 684 00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:19.159 could reach out and touch them. And so we were 685 00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:24.239 mostly fighting, you know, an insurgency, a an i D insurgency, 686 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:30.119 and there was kind of a cadence to things, and 687 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:34.199 you know, we found several i DS by getting out 688 00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:34.960 of the trucks and walking. 689 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:36.360 They were waiting to blow us up. 690 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:38.440 And that was that was really if they could, if 691 00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:43.679 they could blow you up, then they'd engage. But there 692 00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:47.599 there were no ambushes in the region that were not 693 00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:51.320 just like i D induced. And then a firefight after 694 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:56.320 so we were again q r F and this a 695 00:35:56.440 --> 00:36:01.199 neighboring cop or FOB was getting some like harassing fire. 696 00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:04.639 So there was a PKM so like a light machine 697 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:08.159 gun was shooting at the SPOB from a building, and 698 00:36:08.239 --> 00:36:12.599 so we got spun up on QRF and at that 699 00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:14.440 point I was so. 700 00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:15.639 That the long version of this story. 701 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:18.239 At that point, I was already starting to do my 702 00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:23.960 replacement as EXO from platoon leader to XO, and the 703 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.199 guys were getting called out. Half the platoon was out 704 00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:29.599 on mission and they needed to have sixteen sixteen bodies 705 00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:31.719 in four trucks to be able to roll outside the 706 00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:34.599 wire or twenty I forget what it was, but it 707 00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:39.920 was something like that, and we had to fill the trucks. 708 00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:41.719 And so. 709 00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.480 I was in flip flops, ranger panties and a T 710 00:36:45.639 --> 00:36:48.199 shirt strapping a fifty cal onto the roof of the 711 00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:50.440 truck because we didn't have enough bodies and I could 712 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:52.920 at least help the boys get outside the wire and 713 00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:55.519 get out on time. So I was just on the 714 00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:57.760 roof and flip flops of a Max road getting the 715 00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:00.360 weapons systems hooked up and running and the guy that 716 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:02.960 was replacing me comes running up and he's like, hey, 717 00:37:03.079 --> 00:37:05.079 we need like we need more, go grab your ship. 718 00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:07.480 So I ran up to my room, threw my kid on, 719 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:10.239 and and met the trucks. You know, I was running 720 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:12.360 out the gate basically of the fob while the ramp 721 00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:14.559 was down, and they you know, hop in the back 722 00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:17.760 and off we go, and like we didn't have a medic, 723 00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:21.280 so we grabbed the the medic platoon leader who was 724 00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:23.320 an E eight Ranger or E seven at the time 725 00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:27.119 Region Ranger Regiment guy who then you know, went medical. 726 00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:30.800 So like our the back of my truck was just 727 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:34.800 like a hobbled fire team of our senior sniper team 728 00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:40.599 leader are the senior Battalion fo Ford observer, myself and 729 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:44.599 then an East seven Ranger medic and uh, you know, 730 00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:46.360 we're all just riding the truck like. 731 00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:48.119 Shit. 732 00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:49.440 Man, I was supposed to go to the gym in 733 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:52.559 an hour, like you know, because we knew how it worked. 734 00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:54.599 They they they get us. 735 00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:57.280 To come out and then we're going to drive to 736 00:37:57.320 --> 00:37:59.320 where it's happening. And by the time we get there, 737 00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:01.960 everyone's gonna be gone, and We're gonna get out of trucks. 738 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.320 I'm gonna hear it, and we're gonna, you know, do 739 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:06.000 bats and hides, and we're gonna look at all the 740 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:09.920 military age males and then everyone's gonna be gone because 741 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:12.079 as soon as those trucks leave the gate, they're they're 742 00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:14.960 gonna have someone on the phone telling them they're gone. 743 00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:18.719 So you know, it's not like we were complacent, like 744 00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:20.559 we were all kidded up. We were ready to go. 745 00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:24.119 But we had seen this movie before. 746 00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:29.280 And so it wasn't like this super adrenaline like, oh, 747 00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:30.960 we're gonna go get in a firefight. It was a 748 00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:33.280 like those sons of bitches. I was just gonna work 749 00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:36.960 out in an hour. And we get to the building 750 00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:38.559 and then all of a sudden, like you know, the 751 00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:40.559 popcorn starts going off on the sides of the truck. 752 00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:44.719 I was like, oh shit, like shoot back. So we 753 00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.679 you know, we the convoy goes up drives by fools 754 00:38:48.679 --> 00:38:50.719 of ui and now we know, okay, we're we're in 755 00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:53.000 a firefight. We're gonna something's going on. So we're gonna 756 00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:56.280 we're gonna get out of here a dismount and you know, 757 00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:59.800 see what's going on. And so and it was just 758 00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:04.280 a string of really bad luck. When we turned around, 759 00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:08.039 our mine roller hit us feedbump and like fell apart. 760 00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:09.800 So like our lead truck is just kind of like 761 00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:12.559 pushing the metal carcass of a mine roller down the 762 00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:17.920 road and it stopped a little short, so like they 763 00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.360 had to leave spacing for all four trucks to get 764 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:23.960 past the building. And it just so happened where the 765 00:39:24.039 --> 00:39:27.280 lead truck stopped. The trail truck. The fourth truck, which 766 00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:30.880 I was in, was in the kill zone and straight 767 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:32.880 in front of this building. And it was a three 768 00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:36.760 story concrete structure, probably three It was three stories high, 769 00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:40.360 probably one hundred and twenty one hundred and fifty feet long, 770 00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.840 so a fairly large like kind of what would be 771 00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:46.159 an apartment building. And we were square in the killson, 772 00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:50.480 like we were dead center in the killson. Ricochet start 773 00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:52.320 popping off the truck, and you know, we're in the back, 774 00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:55.719 just like, let us out, let us out because this 775 00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.880 goes nowhere good, like, you know, and the four of 776 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:01.440 us in the back we were, you know, we're light infantry. 777 00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:04.519 Where we wanted to get in the fight, like there 778 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.119 was no there was. The only argument in the back 779 00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:08.320 of the truck was who got to be the first 780 00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:10.800 one out the door? Not who had to be the 781 00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:14.000 first one out the door. And we get out, and 782 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.119 I just remember, man, like you know, those trucks are dark, 783 00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:19.639 they got little little porthole windows, and it was super 784 00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.599 bright and and I'm I'm running the ramp, so I 785 00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:23.920 couldn't be the first one out. I had to be 786 00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:26.119 the second one out. My fingers on the little button 787 00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:30.119 to drop the ramp down, and the world just goes 788 00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:33.880 super bright because the sun. And then as I'm running 789 00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:37.039 down the ramp, I see the asphalt just splintering all 790 00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:40.119 around me, and there's like little chunks of asphalt just 791 00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:44.679 flying up around my feet. And uh, I remember, like 792 00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:48.360 it's like oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck, Like I 793 00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:50.239 got to get behind cover because this is this is 794 00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:54.519 way worse than what we thought. We dove in a ditch. 795 00:40:55.039 --> 00:40:57.960 There was a little back hoe digging a utility ditch 796 00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:00.400 next to the road and it was piling up dirt. 797 00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:03.719 So we had a little like three foot ditch that 798 00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:08.599 we could get into and our we had a gunner. 799 00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:12.239 The gunner on my truck. He was he was the 800 00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:14.480 newest private to the platoon. So this is you know 801 00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:16.360 something he said before, like, you know, these are eighteen 802 00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:18.159 nineteen year old guys. Yeah, this is the nineteen year 803 00:41:18.159 --> 00:41:20.239 old guy. He was the newest member of the platoon. 804 00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:22.480 This is the first time he had been in a firefight, 805 00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:25.559 first time he had been in anything like this, And 806 00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:28.400 he had the only fifty calm in the fight. Because 807 00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:30.800 all the other trucks were parked outside and they couldn't 808 00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:31.880 really engage. 809 00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:32.800 One of the trucks could. 810 00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:37.039 And so you had four of us in a ditch, 811 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:41.679 realizing we are way outgunned like these guys. You know, 812 00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:43.559 as soon as we're in the get the ditch, like 813 00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:47.519 RPGs are flying over our heads. RPG hits the truck 814 00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:50.880 and it hit the hit the driver's door, the passenger door, 815 00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:55.159 the TC's door. So our TC has shrapnel all. 816 00:41:55.079 --> 00:41:56.559 Heat because he stayed in the truck. 817 00:41:57.159 --> 00:42:00.239 TC's got shrapnel all through his kit, you know, under 818 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:03.840 his kid. He's bleeding. So the medic runs out of 819 00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:06.679 the ditch. He runs out of the ditch, goes back 820 00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:09.480 to the truck to plug holes. And now there's three 821 00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:12.000 of us in the ditch. Thank god we had the 822 00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:15.440 FO because now we had Apache's coming on stations, and 823 00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:18.239 you know, so he's calling in apaches and there's you know, 824 00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:20.199 there's two of us trying to get a suppressing fire. 825 00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:24.920 Myself and my the Stiper team leader. We're trying to 826 00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:29.400 suppress We've got a Pachies coming on station and who 827 00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:32.400 fortunately we're in the AO because of the QRF call 828 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:35.760 and we had you know, I was like we're laying 829 00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:37.800 in the ditch watching, you know, so you lay on 830 00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:40.000 your back as the apaches coming. You watch these apaches 831 00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:42.480 come come over, you know, twenty feet off the ground. 832 00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:46.360 They peel off. Then you jump up and then the 833 00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:49.840 RPGs just start raining back down on you. Uh. You know, 834 00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:55.960 at one point everything went brown, dirts and rocks and 835 00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:57.119 shit went everywhere. 836 00:42:57.960 --> 00:42:58.199 It was. 837 00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:00.239 It was the time that our medic was coming back 838 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:02.400 into the ditch and I watched him fall over and 839 00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:05.079 I remember like, you stupid bastard, you can't even run, 840 00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:09.159 and uh, an RPG hit so close is what happened. 841 00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:11.159 I mean, there was an RPG that hit about five 842 00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:13.599 feet and it hit the dirt berm in front of 843 00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:16.519 us where the backo was piling the dirt for the 844 00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:21.159 utility trench. And you know, that was the one that 845 00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:24.280 that got us all pretty good as far as concussions 846 00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:28.079 and shrapnel. And you know, whether it's rocks or or everyone, 847 00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:29.880 everyone left that day with the tv I that was 848 00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:33.440 in the ditch at that point. So uh, you know, 849 00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:37.000 and I will you know, there's there's so many parts 850 00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:39.639 of this. Uh. One one that needs to be mentioned 851 00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:41.119 is that they're one of the guy that was in 852 00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:44.519 the in the truck in the turret. So when that 853 00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:46.800 the turret, when the truck got hit with the RPG, 854 00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:52.159 the whole smoke fire suppression system goes off, and our 855 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:55.480 turret gunner fell down all the way from the you know, 856 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:57.199 he was standing up in the turret. He fell down 857 00:43:57.239 --> 00:43:59.639 into the bottom of the truck. And again this said nineteen 858 00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:02.679 year old kid who's in his first firefight. And it 859 00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:04.639 was the it was the only it was a fifty 860 00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:06.480 cow and it was the only thing that was giving 861 00:44:06.519 --> 00:44:09.679 the four of us in the ditch any suppression and 862 00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:13.840 in any way to engage or maneuver. And you know, 863 00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:16.000 this kid could have laid in the in the bottom 864 00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:18.280 of the truck. He just fell eight feet onto his 865 00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:22.440 back and all the fire suppressions going off. He could 866 00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:25.039 have absolutely done that. And the only thing he did 867 00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:27.159 was he grabbed his pocket knife and he slashed all 868 00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:30.039 the ratchet straps on the AMMO cans and threw four 869 00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:32.000 ammo cans up on the roof, then crawled, you know, 870 00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:33.719 climb back up and re engaged. 871 00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:38.119 And you know, that's that's valor, that's. 872 00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:41.000 Bravery, and and your rank should have nothing to do 873 00:44:41.079 --> 00:44:44.559 with a with a valorous Award. You know, there's four 874 00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.360 of us that are alive because of Ian mcinty and 875 00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:51.760 and his actions that day. And you know, at by 876 00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:54.039 the end of it, after maybe I don't know, twenty minutes, 877 00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:57.679 we had two flights of apaches went full Winchester. They 878 00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:00.760 shot everything they had, rockets and rockets and and bullets, 879 00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:04.119 and then we eventually were able to get out of 880 00:45:04.119 --> 00:45:07.159 the ditch. And then it was a three hour firefight 881 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:10.800 we had. There was a Romanian special forces team with 882 00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:13.400 a with an Afghan attachment that was trying to get 883 00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:16.239 at the building. There was you know, us on our 884 00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:18.360 own trying to get at the building from another direction. 885 00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:22.159 We had two A tens come on station and went 886 00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:25.360 full Winchester with everything they had UH and the and 887 00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:27.679 these guys were like they were there to die that day. 888 00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:31.039 They were they were in the building to die. And 889 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:34.400 they reinforced both sides of the building so they could 890 00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.760 engage from either side. They had to have had hundreds 891 00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:41.800 of sandbags and stuff in there. So you know, two apaches, 892 00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:45.000 two or four apaches, two A tens UH, we did 893 00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:47.480 our best to get in the building. The Romanians tried 894 00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:50.880 to get in and then after a couple hours the 895 00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:54.199 decision was made. You know, we we requested authorization to 896 00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:58.400 drop a five hundred pound bomb, and it was it 897 00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:04.239 was danger close or sure that one the first one 898 00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:08.320 that dropped the detonation. Something happened with the detonation and 899 00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:12.800 it went through the building and never detonated. And then 900 00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:16.559 we dropped another from an F sixteen, another five hundred 901 00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:20.920 pound bomb, and the fin broke when it released, and 902 00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:23.800 it like dolphined on its way in and it missed. 903 00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:28.760 You know, we were so close. It's like the Romanians 904 00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:31.360 were here and we were here, and it you know. 905 00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:35.840 The bomb hits here. We were we were so lucky. 906 00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:40.840 And then finally they the I think the brigade commander 907 00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:43.000 it might have added to have been like a general 908 00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:46.880 authorized me to release a two thousand pound bomb from 909 00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:51.360 a B two, and we were like, from a concussion 910 00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:56.519 risk perspective, we were we were danger danger, danger close, 911 00:46:56.559 --> 00:46:59.039 you know whatever the one percent PI is like, yeah, 912 00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:01.519 we were. We were way. 913 00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:01.960 Inside of it. 914 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:07.079 So but it was effective and it certainly ended the firefight, 915 00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:10.639 and it certainly ended the structural integrity of that building. 916 00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:15.639 So yeah, that was you know, it was it was 917 00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:18.320 one of the fondest days because we won, like we 918 00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:21.199 were we were infantry men that were trained to go 919 00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:24.639 do that, and it wasn't That was not the traumatic 920 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:27.360 day of my deployment or and I can speak for 921 00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:28.880 most of the guys that were there, like that was 922 00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:30.639 what we trained to do and we got to go 923 00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:31.000 do it. 924 00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:33.239 You know, the other two. 925 00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:35.719 Events I told you guys about, we're certainly the much 926 00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:42.360 more traumatic than that day. But the part for me 927 00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:45.039 that that I didn't you know that that goes into 928 00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:50.480 kind of part two of this story is on the 929 00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:54.519 way home, my head hurts so bad that you know, 930 00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:56.599 I took my helmet off, I took my headphones off, 931 00:47:57.119 --> 00:47:59.280 and I just rode in the back of this truck 932 00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:03.599 with my hands cradling my ears because I had such 933 00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:08.280 bad headache, and I thought it was just adrenaline. Like 934 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:10.239 I justified it to myself as like, oh, I mean, 935 00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:12.639 you had so much adrenaline. Now it's leaving your body 936 00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:16.280 and you just have a headache. And then three days 937 00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:18.679 later I was trying to do Yeah, we took the 938 00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:21.280 concussion test. I cheated, I listened to someone else's answers 939 00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:24.719 and gave them as my own. And then three days later, 940 00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:27.719 we're doing inventory I'm back to my job as an 941 00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:30.960 XO and we're doing we're doing inventory checks and I 942 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:31.519 can't read. 943 00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:32.719 You know. 944 00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:34.320 A PFC is like, hey, Sar, do you want me 945 00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:36.880 to read those numbers for you? Because because you can't read? 946 00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:40.119 And that was like, oh man, I actually can't read, 947 00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:43.239 like letters and numbers were confusing, and then I had 948 00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:44.079 to go self report. 949 00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:50.559 Wow, I guess this involves you know, you're coming back 950 00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:53.920 home from Afghanistan and you know, getting out of the military. 951 00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:57.079 But I'd also like to ask you about you know 952 00:48:57.280 --> 00:48:59.920 that you got a purple heart for having a TV 953 00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:02.480 and I mean, was that kind of like a hard 954 00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:04.559 flat thing for you and the guys, because I mean, 955 00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:07.079 like the one soldier you mentioned who had shrapnel wounds, 956 00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:09.360 of course he's going to get a purple heart, but guys, 957 00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:12.039 who have you know this this invisible wound? You know 958 00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:14.079 that that is not readily apparent. Was that kind of 959 00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:15.119 a struggle for you guys? 960 00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:18.920 We had a. 961 00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:22.440 I don't know how other like how it would go 962 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:23.119 for other people. 963 00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:28.559 We had a a paho Is captain and he did 964 00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:32.159 a concussion analysis, like so three of the guys were 965 00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:34.440 clearly marked a concussions. 966 00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:36.840 Also a lot of the three of us also had 967 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:40.440 lung damage as well, So like we all had lung 968 00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:43.880 damage from the overpressure and the chemicals, like we had 969 00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:48.239 to we had to sit down. I would bring myself 970 00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:50.000 and one other guy, like we would bring stools with 971 00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:52.559 us for the for the four hundred meter walk to 972 00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:55.719 the chow hall, because we would get winded about halfway there. 973 00:49:56.239 --> 00:49:59.440 H So, like you know, the battalion Star Majors walking 974 00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:01.199 by and your in a stool just trying to get 975 00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:05.440 to the toow hall, like there's like something something's wrong there, 976 00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:09.079 and and we had the like everything was documented fortunately, 977 00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:13.440 and and everything was documented very clearly. So like the 978 00:50:13.480 --> 00:50:18.599 administrative part of the Purple Heart process was I wouldn't 979 00:50:18.599 --> 00:50:21.280 say any more difficult because it was it was combined 980 00:50:21.320 --> 00:50:22.880 with you know, there were there were two of the 981 00:50:22.880 --> 00:50:26.679 guys had shrapnel, five people had tv I s, like 982 00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:28.760 three of us had lung damage. Like it was, it 983 00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:33.079 kind of all just got looped into a well. They 984 00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:35.119 they dropped a two thousand pounds bond that day and 985 00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:36.159 watched it. 986 00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:40.000 So good good. What was was it difficult for you to. 987 00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:42.400 Go and self report because I know you guys as 988 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:45.559 young army officers are like thoroughly indoctrinated. 989 00:50:46.039 --> 00:50:47.960 And but it's true of all soldiers. 990 00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:49.840 I think like no one wants to say, like, hey, 991 00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:52.719 I have a problem. 992 00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:55.320 Yeah, I mean that's that's a part of the culture. 993 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:58.199 I wouldn't say it's it's just the the officer or 994 00:50:58.360 --> 00:51:01.199 or you know, and and certainly there's a part of 995 00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:05.199 it that is encouraged, exacerbated whatever you want to call 996 00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:10.039 by the ranger culture. You know, my my platoon sergeant 997 00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:12.960 who now is actually coaching, would beyond service as well. 998 00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:18.639 My platoon sergeant when with the reconnaissance platoon he broke 999 00:51:18.679 --> 00:51:21.440 his ankle on an insertion. We ran out of the 1000 00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:23.960 back of THEGE forty seven's He broke his ankle running 1001 00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:25.800 out of the back and I think we had a 1002 00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:30.320 twelve click something like that, twelve click X pill. It 1003 00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:32.119 was a three day mission with a twelve click X 1004 00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:34.960 fill to get to trucks to drive home. And no 1005 00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:37.199 one knew that he broke his ankle. He tied his 1006 00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:40.119 boot tighter, he just like cranked his boot. 1007 00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:41.800 Down and spent. 1008 00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:43.559 He knew that was you know, he was a senior, 1009 00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:45.960 he seven, He knew it was probably his last patrol. 1010 00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:47.960 He knew he broke his ankle. It was his last 1011 00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:51.079 patrol with the boys. And so he's not coming out 1012 00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:53.079 of the game. He's not getting a metavac called for mean, 1013 00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:57.280 he's certainly not going back on that helicopter. And so 1014 00:51:57.599 --> 00:51:59.840 he tied his boot tight and he walked twelve clicks 1015 00:51:59.880 --> 00:52:02.199 and full kid on a broken ankle across the desert. Now, 1016 00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:07.320 like that mindset is how you are in your tab 1017 00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:09.440 It's how you you lead soldiers. 1018 00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:12.119 It's how you you like. 1019 00:52:14.400 --> 00:52:15.880 There is there is no. 1020 00:52:17.920 --> 00:52:19.400 It's how you survive in combat. 1021 00:52:20.239 --> 00:52:27.519 Yeah, yeah, like you can put your body through physically, mentally, anything. Right, So, 1022 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:31.440 like you take that mindset, and and the mission is 1023 00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:34.840 more important, like how like you are taught, the mission 1024 00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:37.079 is more important. It's something you believe in. It's a 1025 00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:40.719 part of the culture. And you know, whether my mission 1026 00:52:40.760 --> 00:52:43.039 at that point was leading soldiers or whether it was 1027 00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:45.320 doing serial numbers for a change of command inventory, the 1028 00:52:45.400 --> 00:52:48.559 mission was the mission, and and the mission was more 1029 00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:53.400 important than me and and and it has nothing to 1030 00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:56.159 do with worthiness, It has nothing to do with self esteem, 1031 00:52:56.239 --> 00:52:59.639 Like there's there's just a cultural part that the mission 1032 00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:02.239 is more important than the man. The team is more 1033 00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:04.920 important than the man, and you just execute and do 1034 00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.320 your job. So yeah, it's it's hard to self report. 1035 00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:12.840 And also, you know, I had a path that I 1036 00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:15.679 was pursuing of, you know, going the Green Beret route, 1037 00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:17.960 and like you don't you don't self report anything. You 1038 00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:20.119 need to make sure your medical is clear and you're 1039 00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:24.000 good to go. So you know, the only reason I 1040 00:53:24.039 --> 00:53:26.360 self reported was because I couldn't read and I and 1041 00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:28.719 I knew there was a bigger problem that I had 1042 00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:30.440 to I had to say something right. 1043 00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:34.800 And after you did that, you know, what did the 1044 00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:37.800 out of the command respond and what kind of treatment 1045 00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:38.760 did you start to get? 1046 00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:42.440 Yeah, it was I mean we were we were in 1047 00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:45.920 a very remote part of Afghanistan. We didn't have like 1048 00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:51.159 level one or two right medical facilities. But I was 1049 00:53:51.159 --> 00:53:53.480 put on myself and and the other guys as well. 1050 00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:56.280 We were all put on like a cognitive rest, like 1051 00:53:56.320 --> 00:54:00.119 a ninety six hour hold for cognitive rest to assess. 1052 00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:04.280 And I, I swear to God, man, I think I 1053 00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:09.000 slept twenty hours a day and and I I would 1054 00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:10.920 wake up to go to the bathroom and to go 1055 00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:12.920 to the chow hall once or twice a day, and 1056 00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.239 I thought, you know, because you can't read, you can't 1057 00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:17.840 be on your computer, you can't you can't do anything. 1058 00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:20.199 And I thought, like what the hell am I going 1059 00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:22.239 to do with myself? And all I did was sleep, 1060 00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:27.000 you know, my my brain was trying to heal. And 1061 00:54:27.039 --> 00:54:29.480 then you know, and then after that, like I I 1062 00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:32.119 went back to work. I wasn't supposed to go outside 1063 00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:34.880 the wire except for you know, taking taking three trucks 1064 00:54:34.920 --> 00:54:37.199 to Sealerno to turn them in because I was just 1065 00:54:37.239 --> 00:54:41.199 going to be a day trip. And yeah, I mean 1066 00:54:41.199 --> 00:54:44.639 it was. Yeah. I would say, like command was generally supportive, 1067 00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:47.840 like there was no there was no like good command, 1068 00:54:48.039 --> 00:54:49.920 good command, like took care of the guys. 1069 00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:53.159 Yeah, yeah, it was good. Oh that's great. 1070 00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:57.440 And then talk to us about rotating back home after 1071 00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:59.639 that deployment and kind of what happened next. 1072 00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:03.559 Yeah, so I you know, I made the decision. 1073 00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:04.960 I was. 1074 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:07.199 I was at a timeline in my career that I 1075 00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:10.480 had to make a decision. I had to either accept 1076 00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:14.840 my position into the q CORUS s FAS and the 1077 00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:18.440 Green Beret route or I had to get out. And 1078 00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:21.599 and I I was kind of long in the tooth 1079 00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:27.519 in the in the four or five year officer initial commitment, 1080 00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:32.119 and so I quickly made the decision that I had done. 1081 00:55:33.679 --> 00:55:34.599 It was a hard decision. 1082 00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:37.599 It was a hard decision because because earning a green 1083 00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:40.280 floppy hat was the one thing that I hadn't done yet, 1084 00:55:40.519 --> 00:55:44.239 and I was it was that was the one thing 1085 00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:48.840 in my military career that I hadn't done. But I 1086 00:55:48.880 --> 00:55:54.320 had worked with green bereay teams. I led Afghan commandos 1087 00:55:54.480 --> 00:56:00.599 on you know, kinetic patrols in in coordination with green berets. 1088 00:56:01.280 --> 00:56:04.880 I trained local National soldiers. I'd been in firefights. I pulled, 1089 00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:08.079 you know, picked up pieces of people, wrote on a 1090 00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:10.559 lot of helicopters, jumped out of a lot of aeroplanes. 1091 00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:11.719 Like I felt like I had. 1092 00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:15.039 I had ninety eight percent from my personal journey, ninety 1093 00:56:15.079 --> 00:56:17.639 eight percent of my journey, and the things that I 1094 00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:20.639 wanted to do were complete. I knew I wasn't going 1095 00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:23.280 to be a lifer, and I made the decision to 1096 00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:26.679 pull my packet and get out, and that I that 1097 00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:29.000 I was married to my wife and not the military, 1098 00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:34.280 and and honestly, at that point, so I like I 1099 00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:36.800 have a view of leadership where it's a sacred privilege 1100 00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:40.760 and you know, sometimes sometimes we fail, but leadership is 1101 00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:45.119 a sacred privilege and I couldn't, in clear conscience step 1102 00:56:45.159 --> 00:56:48.880 in front of twelve other guys on a team and 1103 00:56:50.079 --> 00:56:52.239 I have one hundred percent of my heart and one 1104 00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:55.400 hundred percent of my brain there, you know, I felt 1105 00:56:55.400 --> 00:56:57.239 like I had checked the box. And if you're not 1106 00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:00.840 bringing one hundred percent as a lead, then you shouldn't 1107 00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:03.880 be there, not not in that way, not in you know, 1108 00:57:03.960 --> 00:57:07.599 taking guys down range into harm's way. So so yeah, 1109 00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:10.039 I got out, and my wife and I traveled. We 1110 00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:13.679 you know, in this whole process, I'm going to a 1111 00:57:13.719 --> 00:57:17.519 tv I clinic on on Fort Richardson, and you know 1112 00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:20.199 there's there's a whole tv I component there where I 1113 00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:22.880 basically had the what I would say is kind of 1114 00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:25.920 the vocabulary of a seventh seventh grader, seventh or eighth grader, 1115 00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:32.679 short term memory of a of a goldfish, irritability like 1116 00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:38.159 emotional instability and irritability. My hearing was affected, and it 1117 00:57:38.239 --> 00:57:43.599 wasn't just hearing damage from you know, from from like uh, 1118 00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:46.760 ear drum damage. It was it was my ability to 1119 00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:49.880 decipher noises that were coming in. My brain would get 1120 00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:54.079 confused with background noises, So you know, I had a 1121 00:57:54.559 --> 00:58:02.039 whole collection of tv I related response. I never self 1122 00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:05.639 reported with PTSD, and I never I never you know, 1123 00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:08.679 despite having gone through a lot of experiences that one 1124 00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:13.519 would consider traumatic, I never self reported or thought that 1125 00:58:13.559 --> 00:58:16.360 I had PTSD. But I went through a lot of 1126 00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:20.440 tv I work, and then summer fallow twenty thirteen, I 1127 00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:22.559 was a civilian, gave my last salute and walked out 1128 00:58:22.599 --> 00:58:22.880 the door. 1129 00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:26.079 And what did you do in the civilian world. 1130 00:58:28.760 --> 00:58:31.280 I worked as much as I had to to travel 1131 00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:33.760 as much as I could. So my wife and I 1132 00:58:33.800 --> 00:58:37.320 we took an eighteen month we through hike the Appalachian Trail. 1133 00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:39.599 We lived in New Zealand. We took a long road trip, 1134 00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:40.800 and then we ran out of money and had to 1135 00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:46.960 get jobs. So I've spent most of my career in entrepreneurship, startups, 1136 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:51.000 went back to grad school, got my MBA, worked a 1137 00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:57.000 lot of really cool projects, worked in tech, traveled again. 1138 00:58:57.480 --> 00:59:01.199 In twenty eighteen, we quit our job, sold literally everything 1139 00:59:01.239 --> 00:59:03.199 we owned except for two lamps because we couldn't sell 1140 00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:06.719 them on Facebook Marketplace, and moved into a Toyota Tacoma 1141 00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:09.800 and drove from Maine to the Arctic Ocean in the 1142 00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:13.480 Northwest Territories to Peru and a Toyota Tacoma over eighteen months. 1143 00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:15.599 Like I was, it was cool, man, it was it 1144 00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:19.039 was bucketless. But holy cow, did it bring up some 1145 00:59:19.159 --> 00:59:24.320 unresolved trauma around planning and security and your loved ones 1146 00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:26.639 being in harm's way in third world countries? 1147 00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:28.400 Yeah? 1148 00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:30.760 I mean, I think like something I'd like to ask 1149 00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:33.440 you about is that you know, on paper, from what 1150 00:59:33.480 --> 00:59:37.440 you're describing on paper, you're doing great, like you're kicking ass, 1151 00:59:37.039 --> 00:59:40.599 You're you're exploring the world, you're getting an advanced degree, 1152 00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:44.840 you're working these tech jobs. But there's something else going 1153 00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:47.440 on beneath the surface that is kind of eating away 1154 00:59:47.480 --> 00:59:47.760 at you. 1155 00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:50.400 It sounds like, one. 1156 00:59:50.400 --> 00:59:53.800 Hundred percent you could have had a better segue. Everything 1157 00:59:53.960 --> 00:59:57.280 on LinkedIn and Instagram was dialed. I was living a 1158 00:59:57.320 --> 00:59:59.800 life that I should have been fulfilled. I should have 1159 00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:07.239 been thrilled. I had an an incredibly loving wife who 1160 01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:10.960 told me and showed me that she loved me. I 1161 01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:18.440 had supportive friends and hobbies and everything. I should have 1162 01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:21.199 been happy. I should have been fulfilled. I should have 1163 01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:25.800 been happy, which then starts the cycle of why aren't 1164 01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:29.960 I have, How How damaged must I be? How broken 1165 01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:34.480 must I be? So this this inner monologue starts, and 1166 01:00:34.679 --> 01:00:37.719 I had been searching for purpose since I left the military. 1167 01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:42.760 I had been searching for healing. I had doing therapy 1168 01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:44.920 and self help. I mean, I walked six months on 1169 01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:47.760 the Appalachian Trail thinking I would discover who I am 1170 01:00:47.800 --> 01:00:49.920 and find myself and at the end I just had 1171 01:00:50.519 --> 01:00:54.239 some blisters and some clothes that smelled offul and and 1172 01:00:54.239 --> 01:00:57.800 and a ponytail, so like didn't find myself there. So 1173 01:00:59.239 --> 01:01:02.719 constantly doing things on paper that are supposed to be fulfilling, 1174 01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:07.119 things that you should be proud of, and just every 1175 01:01:07.239 --> 01:01:09.360 time I did something that I was supposed to be 1176 01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:11.840 proud of, I felt more and more hollow and more 1177 01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:16.679 and more empty. And then self medicated. That was you know, 1178 01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:19.639 that was that was where that was a portion of 1179 01:01:19.639 --> 01:01:23.079 where the alcoholism came in, of self medicating to not 1180 01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:24.679 feel that way. 1181 01:01:26.159 --> 01:01:28.800 And when did that sort of like reach a breaking 1182 01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:31.360 point for you that you had to go and get 1183 01:01:31.400 --> 01:01:32.400 some additional help. 1184 01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:37.280 Breaking point Memorial Day weekend of twenty twenty four, So 1185 01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:40.880 you know, it was a it was a situation where 1186 01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:42.519 it was kind of like a frog and a boiling 1187 01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:46.960 pot of water. And you know, as you guys know, 1188 01:01:47.079 --> 01:01:49.960 and I'm sure many of your listeners know, alcohol is 1189 01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:54.719 a celebrated part of military culture. Sure, it's how we celebrate, 1190 01:01:55.119 --> 01:01:58.280 it's how we grieve, it's how we fill boredom, and 1191 01:01:58.320 --> 01:02:00.639 it's how we bond. You know, it's it's pretty much 1192 01:02:00.679 --> 01:02:06.760 every powerful emotion can be associated with alcohol. And I 1193 01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:12.280 already had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. So whether it 1194 01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:15.400 was familial or just me in general, I already had 1195 01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:19.320 an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. And then over the course 1196 01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:23.000 of about ten years, it started being used more to 1197 01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:25.719 instead of feel good, it started being used as a 1198 01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:29.519 tool to not feel bad. And then really the last 1199 01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:35.159 two years of my addiction really like the slope started 1200 01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:38.320 getting steeper, and then the last six months was a 1201 01:02:38.760 --> 01:02:44.519 true fallof And so Memorial Day weekend of twenty twenty four, 1202 01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:50.480 I came clean to my wife about everything, everything. And 1203 01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:53.239 there's there's a lot of lying, in deceit and betrayal 1204 01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:56.480 that goes with being married to an alcoholic, and I 1205 01:02:56.880 --> 01:02:59.760 came clean about about all of it, all of it 1206 01:02:59.800 --> 01:03:04.000 that I that I could, that I knew, And so 1207 01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:06.679 that was on a Sunday, and on Monday, I moved 1208 01:03:06.679 --> 01:03:09.960 into an airbnb as a result of my own actions, 1209 01:03:10.039 --> 01:03:12.119 You're right, So, like I was no longer welcome back 1210 01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:13.599 at the house, So my dog and I went to 1211 01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:17.320 an airbnb. I had had the pleasure of detoxing from 1212 01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:22.760 an alcoholism there. Scheduled my first call with Beyond on a Tuesday, 1213 01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:25.000 and I went to my first AA meeting on a Thursday. 1214 01:03:25.480 --> 01:03:30.400 Wow, talk about cold turkey, Jesus. Yeah. 1215 01:03:31.119 --> 01:03:36.000 Yeah, So as far as you know, beginning the process 1216 01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:40.039 of your recovery, tell us about you know, AA beyond 1217 01:03:40.239 --> 01:03:42.960 anything else that you know helped you, you know, start 1218 01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:44.119 to take those steps forward. 1219 01:03:46.400 --> 01:03:49.119 Yeah. So, you know, the the first thing that I 1220 01:03:49.159 --> 01:03:50.400 had to do was. 1221 01:03:52.079 --> 01:03:53.280 I had to want to change. 1222 01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:59.679 Like. It wasn't because my wife wanted me to change 1223 01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:02.920 it that point, you know, I I didn't. I didn't know, 1224 01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:05.800 but I had come to terms that I destroyed a 1225 01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:08.519 thirteen year marriage to the love of my life. My 1226 01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:13.480 actions were the cause of that. And you know, but 1227 01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:16.480 getting sober was for me. It wasn't just for her. 1228 01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:21.480 You know, I wanted to show up better, but I was. 1229 01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:24.159 It was finally, you know, it was time to change, 1230 01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:26.920 and I decided to change it, and it was it 1231 01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:30.760 could have gone the other way. I at that point 1232 01:04:30.800 --> 01:04:34.320 in my life, you know, I had daily suicidal ideations, 1233 01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:40.519 and I daily suicidal ideations, and I would have gladly 1234 01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:43.880 have drank myself to death like that was a that 1235 01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:46.559 was a happy path for me. The only thing that 1236 01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:49.440 kept me from doing that is I promised my wife Lindsay, 1237 01:04:49.800 --> 01:04:52.760 that I wouldn't kill myself, that that I would never 1238 01:04:52.880 --> 01:04:55.039 kill myself. And I promised her. And there were times 1239 01:04:55.079 --> 01:04:57.639 where I was damn close. There were times where I 1240 01:04:57.719 --> 01:05:01.119 was on my motorcycle, and this was a Memorial Day weekend, 1241 01:05:01.159 --> 01:05:06.760 which are typically harder for me. I was on the motorcycle, 1242 01:05:06.840 --> 01:05:10.119 my helmet was unbuckled, and I premeditated all this. When 1243 01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:12.480 I stopped to get gas. It was raining, and we 1244 01:05:12.519 --> 01:05:15.800 lived in Oregon and it was rainy Zorini Spring roads 1245 01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:20.880 were wet, and the plan was to lay the bike 1246 01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:23.320 down in a tight corner with the guardrail, pop my 1247 01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:26.199 helmet off as I slid, and then the rest would 1248 01:05:26.199 --> 01:05:27.840 be history and it would look like I forgot to 1249 01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:31.440 buckle my helmet. But I knew. I knew that Lindsay 1250 01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:35.559 would know, and I knew that she knew me well 1251 01:05:35.679 --> 01:05:37.840 enough to she would know. So I couldn't do it. 1252 01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:42.199 And I was riding helmet unbuckled into the corner, like 1253 01:05:42.239 --> 01:05:44.519 I identified the corner that I was going to lay 1254 01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:50.079 it down. So, going back to the recovery side of it, 1255 01:05:51.400 --> 01:05:56.280 I couldn't kill myself, even though you know, if the 1256 01:05:56.360 --> 01:05:58.800 relationship was over, the relationship was over. But I couldn't 1257 01:05:58.840 --> 01:06:04.280 kill myself and at least not yet. And I wanted 1258 01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:07.360 to give her answers. So I went to AA as 1259 01:06:07.360 --> 01:06:11.480 A as a triage. My brother, My brother, I joke, 1260 01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:13.000 he taught me how to be an alcoholic, and he 1261 01:06:13.000 --> 01:06:15.079 taught me how to get sober. So he's a couple 1262 01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:17.320 of years ahead of me and his sobriety. And you know, 1263 01:06:17.360 --> 01:06:18.880 I talked to him in the parking lot of my 1264 01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:21.719 first meeting and and I just went, I went all in. 1265 01:06:22.880 --> 01:06:24.480 And you know, detox sucks. 1266 01:06:24.960 --> 01:06:29.880 Detox is not fun, and you know, owning those truths 1267 01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:32.679 aren't fun. But that first meeting that I went to, 1268 01:06:32.840 --> 01:06:34.559 there was an old timer with a lot of sobriety. 1269 01:06:34.599 --> 01:06:36.519 There were three of usk new guys there and there 1270 01:06:36.559 --> 01:06:38.599 was an old timer with a lot of sobriety, and 1271 01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:40.719 he got up for his share, and he looked at 1272 01:06:40.800 --> 01:06:44.320 us and he said, listen, no one comes here on 1273 01:06:44.360 --> 01:06:47.320 a winning streak, Like no one comes to AA on 1274 01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:50.440 a winning streak. You're all here as a result of 1275 01:06:50.440 --> 01:06:53.199 your own actions. And if you keep making the same choices, 1276 01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:56.119 you're not going to go anywhere else, and you're going 1277 01:06:56.159 --> 01:06:59.480 to constantly be showing up for your first meeting. And 1278 01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:03.920 you know, I really took that to heart, and honestly, 1279 01:07:04.159 --> 01:07:06.559 like that guy doesn't know that, he changed my life 1280 01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:09.840 forever because it took the mindset of that you keep 1281 01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:11.639 doing what you're doing, you're always going to be here. 1282 01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:13.280 So I was like, I can't keep doing what I 1283 01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:18.960 was doing. And then that brings in beyond. So a 1284 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:23.119 good friend of mine went to this IBA gain clinic 1285 01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:27.840 in Mexico. This civilian guy went for a cocaine addiction, 1286 01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:33.000 met some veterans, I think some Navy seal guys there, 1287 01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:37.079 and was talking about all the benefits of iv A 1288 01:07:37.159 --> 01:07:39.760 gain for veterans. And he came home and he told 1289 01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:42.840 me you need to go, You need to go, and 1290 01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:51.079 I I said, oh, that sounds great. Not now, in reality, 1291 01:07:51.239 --> 01:07:53.679 I was terrified. I was terrified of what I was 1292 01:07:53.719 --> 01:07:56.920 going to find I didn't feel worthy. My problems aren't 1293 01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:59.320 that bad. I can get on top of this alcohol. 1294 01:07:59.320 --> 01:08:00.960 I knew I was alco I knew I was an 1295 01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:03.559 alcoholic for the two years before I got sober. I 1296 01:08:03.559 --> 01:08:05.960 can get on top of it myself. I can control this. 1297 01:08:07.840 --> 01:08:12.800 Quintin didn't. And then eventually, at rock bottom, I said, well, 1298 01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:13.239 screw it. 1299 01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:14.679 I've got nothing else to lose. 1300 01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:17.399 I've already lost my wife. I've got nothing else to lose. 1301 01:08:18.199 --> 01:08:21.319 And she told me she would wait to see who 1302 01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:28.560 came back from Mexico. And so thirty days after coming clean, 1303 01:08:28.720 --> 01:08:31.439 thirty days after getting sober, I got on airplane to 1304 01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:36.640 go to Mexico, and I knew almost nothing about Ivagain, 1305 01:08:37.279 --> 01:08:41.720 I knew almost nothing about psychedelic medicine. I didn't look 1306 01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:44.439 at any other clinics in the United States or in 1307 01:08:44.479 --> 01:08:46.720 the world other than this one that came referred to. 1308 01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:48.960 Me, and I just said, let's you know, let's go. 1309 01:08:49.880 --> 01:08:53.600 And you know, I'd like to say that I was 1310 01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:56.920 doing this for healing, that I was doing it to 1311 01:08:57.039 --> 01:09:02.079 grow and become a better person. In reality, I wanted 1312 01:09:02.119 --> 01:09:08.319 to come home with answers for my wife for why 1313 01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:11.680 things happened? Why did I destroy our marriage? What happened 1314 01:09:11.680 --> 01:09:15.560 to me? And then, you know, I knew that I 1315 01:09:15.640 --> 01:09:18.279 was incurable because I had been trying to solve this 1316 01:09:18.399 --> 01:09:24.439 with VA meds and VA therapies, and I was trying 1317 01:09:24.479 --> 01:09:26.960 to solve this for ten years, and I knew I 1318 01:09:27.039 --> 01:09:29.640 was uncurable. But at least if I could give her 1319 01:09:29.680 --> 01:09:32.840 the answer so she could have closure, I could then 1320 01:09:32.920 --> 01:09:34.079 finally go kill myself. 1321 01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:35.039 And that was the plan. 1322 01:09:35.319 --> 01:09:37.600 I was going down there to get her the answers 1323 01:09:38.039 --> 01:09:42.800 so I could go kill myself. We were okay, financially 1324 01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:47.439 should be fine. Everything would be okay, and finally I 1325 01:09:47.479 --> 01:09:50.520 would stop burdening being a burden on the people around me. 1326 01:09:51.159 --> 01:09:53.960 They loved me because their life would be better with 1327 01:09:54.119 --> 01:09:54.880 me gone. 1328 01:09:56.239 --> 01:10:00.319 Person. And what was the process? 1329 01:10:00.039 --> 01:10:02.920 Says when you got down to this clinic, If you 1330 01:10:02.920 --> 01:10:06.279 can like walk us through what that you know what 1331 01:10:06.319 --> 01:10:08.600 that entails, because I know it's more than just you know, 1332 01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:12.680 taking you know, plant medicine and what that experience was like. 1333 01:10:12.680 --> 01:10:18.760 For you when you got there. Yeah, so thank you. Well. 1334 01:10:18.880 --> 01:10:22.000 So as a part of that commitment to killing myself, 1335 01:10:22.680 --> 01:10:25.760 I knew I couldn't do it without with it. I 1336 01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:28.000 had to have a clear conscience, and that clear conscience 1337 01:10:28.039 --> 01:10:30.319 meant I had to do all of everything in front 1338 01:10:30.319 --> 01:10:33.560 of me at this clinic one so like that same 1339 01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:38.239 that same willpower and drive that you know recycled Ranger 1340 01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:41.239 school and painted the curb with a one inch yellow 1341 01:10:41.359 --> 01:10:44.920 you know, paintbrush was the same. That's the same person, 1342 01:10:44.960 --> 01:10:46.880 That same person was in there. So if I was 1343 01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:50.079 going to to kill myself with a clear conscience and 1344 01:10:50.279 --> 01:10:52.399 know that nothing worked on me, I had to lean 1345 01:10:52.439 --> 01:10:55.119 into the process one hundred percent. I didn't know that 1346 01:10:55.159 --> 01:10:56.840 this didn't work for me, and I couldn't just finger 1347 01:10:56.920 --> 01:10:57.239 drill it. 1348 01:10:57.560 --> 01:11:00.159 So on the flame. 1349 01:11:00.199 --> 01:11:03.119 Down I read, you know, I buttoned up my work 1350 01:11:03.159 --> 01:11:07.640 because I was still working as a tech executive. So 1351 01:11:08.560 --> 01:11:13.520 my my my co founders and my company gave me 1352 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:16.560 the space to go do this and supported me, which 1353 01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:21.560 was incredibly important. I'm grateful for. You know. The only 1354 01:11:21.720 --> 01:11:23.760 It's funny, the only thing that didn't suffer was my work. 1355 01:11:24.640 --> 01:11:26.800 I let my family suffer, but I didn't let my 1356 01:11:26.840 --> 01:11:30.560 work suffer. What the hell is that about a lot 1357 01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:35.279 of alcoholics? Will we'll do that? And so I read 1358 01:11:35.359 --> 01:11:39.399 everything that they gave me. I went no contact with 1359 01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:42.600 everyone on the outside. Basically turned my phone off on 1360 01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:47.239 the when I arrived. And Beyond so Beyond iv A 1361 01:11:47.319 --> 01:11:51.079 GAIN is an iv A GAIN treatment clinic in Cancun, Mexico. 1362 01:11:52.720 --> 01:11:56.319 You typically go for seven to fourteen days, depending on 1363 01:11:56.359 --> 01:12:01.039 your treatment protocol. And Beyond is a is a mix 1364 01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:07.840 of Western clinical medicine and the Eastern, a more Eastern 1365 01:12:07.880 --> 01:12:10.800 holistic approach, and it's really like a fifty to fifty mix. 1366 01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:15.600 So I begain, will I again needs to be monitored, 1367 01:12:15.880 --> 01:12:19.279 so you do EKGs. There are effects on the heart 1368 01:12:19.279 --> 01:12:22.159 from my beginning, the effects that could happen from I 1369 01:12:22.199 --> 01:12:25.239 begin So you do EKGs. 1370 01:12:24.600 --> 01:12:25.439 For your heart health. 1371 01:12:25.760 --> 01:12:27.960 You'll do a lot of like blood urine tests or 1372 01:12:28.279 --> 01:12:30.960 urine drug tests and blood tests. You do all of 1373 01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:34.760 these clinical procedures. But at the same time, you're doing 1374 01:12:34.840 --> 01:12:38.880 daily meditations, and you're doing chakra work, and you're doing 1375 01:12:39.600 --> 01:12:43.560 sound healings, and you're doing you know, creative expressions, and 1376 01:12:44.199 --> 01:12:47.000 there's like every day there's a workshop just like a 1377 01:12:47.039 --> 01:12:50.239 group work workshop, and you're given a workbook. And it's 1378 01:12:50.279 --> 01:12:53.279 basically the way that I went down. It was a 1379 01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:55.159 it was a kind of a choose your own adventure 1380 01:12:55.520 --> 01:12:57.479 and lean into it. As hard as you want. Like, 1381 01:12:57.520 --> 01:12:58.960 if you want to talk to a coach, you can 1382 01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:00.520 talk to a coach. If you want to hide in 1383 01:13:00.560 --> 01:13:02.239 your room and play video games, you can hide in 1384 01:13:02.239 --> 01:13:06.720 your room and play video games. And and I now know, 1385 01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:09.359 you know it's for a reason, and you know I 1386 01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:12.520 self selected and I leaned in, and I went to 1387 01:13:12.720 --> 01:13:21.479 every therapeutic event. I went to every workshop. And you 1388 01:13:21.520 --> 01:13:24.039 know when I when I went to sit with this medicine. 1389 01:13:24.800 --> 01:13:26.399 The day that I that I went to sit with 1390 01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:31.439 this medicine, I was terrified. I was terrified. I wrote 1391 01:13:31.439 --> 01:13:33.720 a letter to my wife because I have I have 1392 01:13:33.760 --> 01:13:37.000 a totally normal heart, congenital heart defect that has nothing 1393 01:13:37.039 --> 01:13:38.680 to do with I have again and nothing to do 1394 01:13:38.760 --> 01:13:40.479 with how I beganin would affect a heart. But I 1395 01:13:40.520 --> 01:13:43.159 again ego. I was convinced that I was so special. 1396 01:13:43.159 --> 01:13:45.520 I was going to die. Uh So I wrote a letter, 1397 01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:47.680 left it on my pillow, and I walked in that 1398 01:13:47.800 --> 01:13:50.520 room ready to die, totally ready to die. 1399 01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:52.199 But I was also going to give it my all. 1400 01:13:52.439 --> 01:13:58.760 And so there's some some things with I begain. First 1401 01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:02.279 of all, I have again. It's a psychedelic, psychedelic experience. 1402 01:14:03.680 --> 01:14:07.199 It is not a recreation drug. So we think of 1403 01:14:07.479 --> 01:14:13.920 psychedelics and in our common colloquial am I going on 1404 01:14:13.960 --> 01:14:14.279 a tanta? 1405 01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:16.600 No, you're good? Yeah, okay. 1406 01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:21.159 So in our common like colloquial understanding of psychedelics, we 1407 01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:26.039 think of psilocybin or LSD, and typically in a recreational sense. 1408 01:14:26.439 --> 01:14:30.640 So it's the grateful dead, concert burning man, whatever, you know, 1409 01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:35.319 whatever recreational context you want to put to it, shiny colors, unicorns, 1410 01:14:35.720 --> 01:14:38.479 you know, woo, and it's all happy and good. It's 1411 01:14:38.479 --> 01:14:40.720 supposed to be all happy and good, right, So, like 1412 01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:44.199 that's the framing that ninety nine percent of the United 1413 01:14:44.199 --> 01:14:48.720 States has around the word psychedelic. So I will tell 1414 01:14:48.760 --> 01:14:52.319 you I've again is not a recreational experience. It is 1415 01:14:52.319 --> 01:14:57.560 a therapeutic experience. And it was hands down the most 1416 01:14:57.600 --> 01:15:00.119 profoundly positive experience in my life. 1417 01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:01.840 But it wasn't recreation. 1418 01:15:02.119 --> 01:15:04.359 Like you don't, no one is going to leave. 1419 01:15:04.680 --> 01:15:06.359 I mean I can't say no one. 1420 01:15:06.640 --> 01:15:08.760 Ninety nine point nine percent of the people aren't gonna 1421 01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:11.359 leave an IV again journey and be like let's do 1422 01:15:11.439 --> 01:15:14.079 another one tomorrow, Like hell yeah, I'm hooked, Like let's 1423 01:15:14.079 --> 01:15:16.439 trade one addiction for another. It's just it's just not 1424 01:15:16.640 --> 01:15:17.319 how it works. 1425 01:15:18.479 --> 01:15:22.319 I've remember someone saying that I've never tried it, but 1426 01:15:22.439 --> 01:15:26.399 that when you do eyebo GAIN, that like you have 1427 01:15:26.479 --> 01:15:30.279 this journey of like confronting every failure in life. And 1428 01:15:30.439 --> 01:15:32.960 it sounds like maybe not a very fun experience, which 1429 01:15:33.000 --> 01:15:34.920 maybe that's why you're saying no one would want to 1430 01:15:34.960 --> 01:15:35.439 do it again. 1431 01:15:37.279 --> 01:15:43.079 So everyone's journey is different, and everyone's journey is different. 1432 01:15:43.359 --> 01:15:47.239 There are some themes so and and since standing up 1433 01:15:47.239 --> 01:15:50.520 this program, you know, I've had the enormous privilege to 1434 01:15:50.560 --> 01:15:52.760 be associated with fifty people that have gone through and 1435 01:15:52.800 --> 01:15:55.079 done an iv A GAIN journey as a veteran first 1436 01:15:55.079 --> 01:15:59.239 responder or a spouse at no cost to them as 1437 01:15:59.279 --> 01:16:01.239 a as a non off it and we've been able 1438 01:16:01.279 --> 01:16:04.000 to open these doors for fifty people now to get 1439 01:16:04.039 --> 01:16:09.560 access to healing. There are some common themes. First of all, 1440 01:16:09.640 --> 01:16:12.000 the experience. So some people will ask, like, how long 1441 01:16:12.000 --> 01:16:15.439 does it last for My answer to that is twelve 1442 01:16:15.479 --> 01:16:18.880 hours to twelve years. And that depends on you, all right, 1443 01:16:19.039 --> 01:16:23.279 So there's an acute clinical observation window that lasts for 1444 01:16:23.319 --> 01:16:24.000 twelve hours. 1445 01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:26.399 In that twelve hours. 1446 01:16:26.239 --> 01:16:28.920 Because that's the effect on the heart that needs to 1447 01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:32.640 be monitored by a clinical team. So you're in a 1448 01:16:32.680 --> 01:16:35.479 bed on the side of a gain journey and you 1449 01:16:35.520 --> 01:16:37.439 have you're hooked up to an EKG and a pulse 1450 01:16:37.439 --> 01:16:40.720 ox cimeter and you have an electrolyte IV drip and 1451 01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:43.319 it's again it's not what you would think of like 1452 01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:52.439 doing psilocybin or LSD, and so you're going through this experience. 1453 01:16:52.560 --> 01:16:56.039 The first four hours are typically maybe the more visual 1454 01:16:56.319 --> 01:16:58.600 some people have visuals. For me, it was it was 1455 01:16:58.800 --> 01:17:02.359 like watching scene of my life through like a four 1456 01:17:02.479 --> 01:17:06.600 K ultra HD drone footage where I wasn't having flashbacks, 1457 01:17:07.399 --> 01:17:11.399 but I was I was reliving impactful moments in my life. 1458 01:17:11.560 --> 01:17:15.680 And then typically the next eight to twenty four hours 1459 01:17:15.840 --> 01:17:21.399 are like a deep introspective meditative You're really malleable and 1460 01:17:22.079 --> 01:17:24.840 gaining understanding for things, and a lot of times like 1461 01:17:24.880 --> 01:17:28.479 we can process trauma through acceptance and understanding, So it's 1462 01:17:28.479 --> 01:17:31.159 a really helpful way if you want to dig into 1463 01:17:31.159 --> 01:17:35.159 those discomforts. So like for me, the first hour of 1464 01:17:35.199 --> 01:17:39.640 my journey, I had to come to terms with a 1465 01:17:39.720 --> 01:17:43.960 childhood sexual assault that I never told anyone about, and 1466 01:17:44.199 --> 01:17:47.840 I had to accept that and I accept the person 1467 01:17:47.960 --> 01:17:53.560 that perpetrated me right, and I had to accept emotional 1468 01:17:53.600 --> 01:17:57.880 abandonment and emotion unfilled emotional needs from like childhood and family, 1469 01:17:59.720 --> 01:18:04.520 and I had to accept those very painful learnings. But 1470 01:18:06.199 --> 01:18:10.000 the journey was done with love. So like this journey 1471 01:18:10.039 --> 01:18:12.760 and the story, you know, I expected it to be 1472 01:18:13.640 --> 01:18:16.079 twelve hours. If you guys have ever seen the like 1473 01:18:16.159 --> 01:18:20.840 Netflix show Stranger Things. I expected to be trapped into 1474 01:18:20.840 --> 01:18:26.039 the upside down for twelve hours and all of the demons, 1475 01:18:26.159 --> 01:18:28.800 all of the things I hated about myself, all like 1476 01:18:28.960 --> 01:18:29.399 it was. 1477 01:18:29.399 --> 01:18:32.439 Just gonna be. I had to pay a penance, I 1478 01:18:32.479 --> 01:18:32.960 had to get. 1479 01:18:32.840 --> 01:18:35.000 Nailed to a cross to pay for my sins. Like 1480 01:18:35.079 --> 01:18:39.439 that's what I was taught. And what happened was I 1481 01:18:39.560 --> 01:18:42.359 was hugged and I was loved, and that little five 1482 01:18:42.439 --> 01:18:44.960 year old boy or nine year old boy was hugged 1483 01:18:44.960 --> 01:18:48.960 and loved and he was told that he's enough and 1484 01:18:49.000 --> 01:18:52.079 he was told that he's okay. And I was able 1485 01:18:52.159 --> 01:18:55.199 to love myself for the first time in my life. 1486 01:18:56.359 --> 01:18:57.399 I was able to. 1487 01:18:57.399 --> 01:19:00.960 Process anxiety for the first time in my life, like 1488 01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:05.960 first time in my adult life. I spent my entire 1489 01:19:06.000 --> 01:19:10.159 life looking at how things were gonna hurt me made 1490 01:19:10.159 --> 01:19:13.640 me a great infantry officer. Like most dangerous course of action, 1491 01:19:13.760 --> 01:19:17.159 most likely course of action, contingencies for contingencies man like 1492 01:19:17.720 --> 01:19:20.880 made me a great infantry officer, always looking at where 1493 01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:22.800 things can go wrong. It makes me a great corporate 1494 01:19:22.840 --> 01:19:26.039 leader in the role that I have of contingency planning. 1495 01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:28.359 Doesn't make you a great partner, doesn't make you a 1496 01:19:28.359 --> 01:19:32.920 great scuff And so this anxiety of where is where 1497 01:19:32.920 --> 01:19:35.039 am I going to get hurt? I was able to 1498 01:19:35.119 --> 01:19:38.720 release that and it wasn't comfortable, like and that's really like, 1499 01:19:38.760 --> 01:19:41.840 it's not recreation, Like this shit is not comfortable. But 1500 01:19:42.800 --> 01:19:46.279 one of the things that we coach our participants is like, 1501 01:19:47.119 --> 01:19:49.319 you know, using a physical train, Like you go to 1502 01:19:49.439 --> 01:19:51.920 a heavy squat day, it's probably gonna hurt to go 1503 01:19:52.039 --> 01:19:53.720 to the bathsand the next day, or it's gonna hurt 1504 01:19:53.720 --> 01:19:55.680 to walk up and down a flight of stairs. But 1505 01:19:55.840 --> 01:19:59.560 you know that discomfort is gross. So why can't we 1506 01:19:59.600 --> 01:20:03.319 apply I like veterans and you know I can only 1507 01:20:03.359 --> 01:20:08.439 speak for veterans, but veterans first responders, Like there's a 1508 01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:12.239 mindset elite acids, same idea, like you can push your 1509 01:20:12.319 --> 01:20:17.920 mind and your body through any sort of discomfort like 1510 01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:23.720 I will walk until I pass out, but like emotional discomfort, 1511 01:20:24.279 --> 01:20:27.039 no way, give me a bottle of bourbon. Give me 1512 01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:30.159 a bottle of bourbon before I feel emotional discomfort. So 1513 01:20:30.199 --> 01:20:32.479 we try to coach. What we try to coach with 1514 01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:36.479 the eye begain is like, you will encounter some discomfort. 1515 01:20:36.960 --> 01:20:41.159 I hope you do, embrace it, go through it, because 1516 01:20:41.159 --> 01:20:43.239 like on the other side of that is where the 1517 01:20:43.279 --> 01:20:45.039 healing happens. 1518 01:20:46.079 --> 01:20:47.439 I mean, it's unreal. 1519 01:20:48.079 --> 01:20:51.000 And so tell us about coming home from the clinic 1520 01:20:51.039 --> 01:20:54.359 then and being reunited with your wife and what was like, 1521 01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:56.560 what was the next steps like in your life, because 1522 01:20:56.600 --> 01:20:59.000 I mean you don't you don't get cured overnight. 1523 01:20:59.119 --> 01:21:00.680 Right, It's a it's a process, right. 1524 01:21:01.960 --> 01:21:04.560 No, So you know, I begain is not a magic pill, 1525 01:21:05.279 --> 01:21:07.079 and I've said it, I'll say that till I'm blue 1526 01:21:07.079 --> 01:21:11.319 in the face. It's a tool, and that tool is 1527 01:21:11.359 --> 01:21:12.600 incredibly transformative. 1528 01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:15.399 But it's not a magic pill. And like you said, 1529 01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:17.199 you don't get cured. You don't get cured. 1530 01:21:18.319 --> 01:21:22.199 What I realized is that by using this tool, I 1531 01:21:22.439 --> 01:21:24.640 could become the person I've always wanted to be. 1532 01:21:25.000 --> 01:21:25.720 Not go back. 1533 01:21:25.920 --> 01:21:27.880 It wasn't going to help me become the person I was. 1534 01:21:27.920 --> 01:21:30.000 I didn't want to be the person I was. I 1535 01:21:30.039 --> 01:21:31.640 wanted to be the person I wanted to be, and 1536 01:21:31.680 --> 01:21:33.600 I could use this tool to try to get there. 1537 01:21:34.680 --> 01:21:39.159 So on my last couple of days, I really started thinking. 1538 01:21:39.199 --> 01:21:40.680 So I was down there for ten days, my last 1539 01:21:40.720 --> 01:21:43.399 couple of days, after you stay with the medicine three times, 1540 01:21:43.960 --> 01:21:47.119 and after the last time, I really started feeling this 1541 01:21:47.239 --> 01:21:50.800 call to paying it forward because I knew that there were, 1542 01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:53.800 you know, soldiers of mine, and really I just wanted 1543 01:21:53.840 --> 01:21:55.319 to pay it forward to a couple of guys who 1544 01:21:55.359 --> 01:21:59.720 I knew had had some troubles from the same deployment 1545 01:21:59.760 --> 01:22:04.319 I went on. And so I sat down with the 1546 01:22:04.359 --> 01:22:08.000 CEO and co founder of Beyond, Tom Fiegel, and I said, Tom, 1547 01:22:08.159 --> 01:22:10.800 you know, if I were to put together, you know, 1548 01:22:10.800 --> 01:22:12.359 if I were to use some of my network and 1549 01:22:12.479 --> 01:22:15.039 venture capital and if I could raise some money, could 1550 01:22:15.079 --> 01:22:17.640 I bring a group of five guys down here and 1551 01:22:18.000 --> 01:22:21.520 I have it at a discount? And he like, straight face, 1552 01:22:22.399 --> 01:22:26.920 just stonefaced me. He's like no, Like all right, man, 1553 01:22:27.000 --> 01:22:30.159 Like you're running a business. I totally get it. And 1554 01:22:30.199 --> 01:22:32.119 then he was like, no, I want to treat two 1555 01:22:32.239 --> 01:22:35.640 hundred people a year for three but I don't know 1556 01:22:35.720 --> 01:22:39.680 how because I'm not a veteran and so you know 1557 01:22:39.760 --> 01:22:42.439 there and I wasn't the first person to think of 1558 01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:49.399 doing this, God though, I just fortunately have an operations 1559 01:22:49.520 --> 01:22:56.239 project management start up building background professionally and volunteered to 1560 01:22:56.239 --> 01:22:58.840 do it. So I volunteered to Tom and said, look, 1561 01:22:58.880 --> 01:23:00.640 can I can I help? Like, I'll work for free. 1562 01:23:00.680 --> 01:23:03.840 I just want to build this And my goal was 1563 01:23:03.880 --> 01:23:08.000 to treat to get one person access tiving. If we 1564 01:23:08.039 --> 01:23:11.199 could get one person access cybagain that couldn't have it. 1565 01:23:11.199 --> 01:23:14.439 It was called to it and couldn't have it. That 1566 01:23:14.560 --> 01:23:20.520 was that was enough. So I return home with this idea. 1567 01:23:21.960 --> 01:23:24.760 Now my wife and I were no contract, no contact, 1568 01:23:26.119 --> 01:23:28.680 and I texted her that I was, you know, coming 1569 01:23:28.720 --> 01:23:30.039 home when I was going to land and then I 1570 01:23:30.079 --> 01:23:31.239 was going to go to the house and I was 1571 01:23:31.279 --> 01:23:33.199 going to get the RV and I was going to 1572 01:23:33.239 --> 01:23:35.039 be gone like just so you know, like I'll be 1573 01:23:35.159 --> 01:23:36.920 home in town the sem She's like, well, i'll pick 1574 01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:37.640 you up at the airport. 1575 01:23:39.039 --> 01:23:39.720 That's surprising. 1576 01:23:40.399 --> 01:23:44.720 And she picks me up at the airport and five 1577 01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:48.199 minutes into their drive home, she's like, can you stop, 1578 01:23:48.439 --> 01:23:52.560 Like can you just can you just stop talking? I 1579 01:23:52.560 --> 01:23:55.319 thought I was toning it down, like I well, I 1580 01:23:55.399 --> 01:23:57.760 was toning it down. That was even very prompt, like 1581 01:23:57.800 --> 01:24:00.720 I was toning it down. But the person that left 1582 01:24:01.279 --> 01:24:12.800 was a alcoholic, anxiety filled, depressed, suicidal ideation asshole needed himself. 1583 01:24:13.199 --> 01:24:16.159 The most important part is I hated myself, and the 1584 01:24:16.159 --> 01:24:20.439 person that came home loved myself, loved who I am, 1585 01:24:20.720 --> 01:24:22.680 and like even told her, I was like, look, if 1586 01:24:22.720 --> 01:24:25.880 we don't if we don't end up together, that's totally fine. 1587 01:24:25.960 --> 01:24:28.039 Can we just be friends? Like you're my best friend? 1588 01:24:28.119 --> 01:24:30.439 Can we just be friends? Like it's okay if you 1589 01:24:30.439 --> 01:24:32.039 want to be with someone else, I just want to 1590 01:24:32.079 --> 01:24:35.279 be your friend. And she's like, who the hell is 1591 01:24:35.319 --> 01:24:40.560 this person? And uh, six weeks later she went to 1592 01:24:40.600 --> 01:24:46.039 Beyond for her own oh wow. And she comes home 1593 01:24:46.279 --> 01:24:48.239 six weeks later and she knew that I was working 1594 01:24:48.279 --> 01:24:51.319 on this idea with the tree veterans and first responders, 1595 01:24:51.640 --> 01:24:54.800 and before we even discussed anything that has to do 1596 01:24:54.840 --> 01:24:59.039 with our personal relationship, she's like, I'll sensor most of it. 1597 01:24:59.079 --> 01:25:02.000 She's like, screw you, guys. This isn't just for veterans, 1598 01:25:02.439 --> 01:25:05.560 this is for spouses too. We deal with your bullshit. 1599 01:25:05.880 --> 01:25:08.760 We deal with your trauma, We deal with hiding the gun, 1600 01:25:09.079 --> 01:25:11.279 We deal with thinking about are we going to come 1601 01:25:11.319 --> 01:25:13.000 home and find you dead in the bathtub? Are we 1602 01:25:13.039 --> 01:25:14.720 going to find you dead in the car. And we 1603 01:25:14.760 --> 01:25:17.359 deal with this shit day in day out when you're 1604 01:25:17.399 --> 01:25:20.479 having a bad time. And this isn't just this healing 1605 01:25:20.600 --> 01:25:23.119 is not reserved for veterans. The families deserve it too. 1606 01:25:24.239 --> 01:25:28.680 And that's amazing. Are we still together? Like are we 1607 01:25:28.720 --> 01:25:31.119 going to be in a relationship? He's like, yeah, we'll 1608 01:25:31.159 --> 01:25:35.199 figure that out. So we are. And I'll tell you 1609 01:25:35.279 --> 01:25:38.000 that it's been an incredible journey. And if it wasn't 1610 01:25:38.000 --> 01:25:42.159 for Lindsay, there wouldn't be a spouse's program, and she 1611 01:25:42.359 --> 01:25:43.399 really championed that. 1612 01:25:43.560 --> 01:25:45.119 And you know a big. 1613 01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:49.800 Part of Beyond Service is offering equal and equitable care 1614 01:25:50.199 --> 01:25:54.479 for spouses and family members. And we've had five husband 1615 01:25:54.520 --> 01:25:57.000 and wife go through on their own time, like we 1616 01:25:57.039 --> 01:26:00.600 do cohort genders gender cohorts, so like a group of 1617 01:26:00.600 --> 01:26:02.760 guys goes down, group of women goes down, but we've 1618 01:26:02.760 --> 01:26:07.239 had five couples now go through this process and then 1619 01:26:07.319 --> 01:26:12.239 it's incredible, like the healing that is needed and the 1620 01:26:12.279 --> 01:26:18.880 weight that is carried by the family is unimaginable and 1621 01:26:18.920 --> 01:26:20.840 I don't know how to explain it because I've never 1622 01:26:20.920 --> 01:26:25.119 felt it. But you combine that with the complete lack 1623 01:26:25.159 --> 01:26:29.199 of resources, so like all of these programs are for 1624 01:26:29.279 --> 01:26:34.840 veterans and there's not enough, and how many of them 1625 01:26:34.920 --> 01:26:35.920 for spouses and family? 1626 01:26:36.399 --> 01:26:40.000 Right, And you know that that goes back to here's 1627 01:26:40.000 --> 01:26:43.640 something we've talked about. Something that I recognized my relationships 1628 01:26:43.800 --> 01:26:46.279 was that what we did in the military. You know, 1629 01:26:46.399 --> 01:26:50.399 we didn't have a draft. We all volunteered, and you know, 1630 01:26:50.680 --> 01:26:54.239 and what we did it was kind of selfish. It 1631 01:26:54.279 --> 01:26:56.920 was it was what we wanted to do. It was 1632 01:26:56.960 --> 01:26:59.039 a calling that we answered. It was for a life 1633 01:26:59.079 --> 01:27:02.680 we envisioned, and we left our spouses behind, you know, 1634 01:27:02.760 --> 01:27:05.640 and we were out there going through the stuff but 1635 01:27:05.800 --> 01:27:06.800 living every day. 1636 01:27:07.279 --> 01:27:09.079 You know, it was what we wanted to do. 1637 01:27:09.600 --> 01:27:13.319 And meanwhile they're at home and worrying, you know, not 1638 01:27:13.439 --> 01:27:16.279 knowing what's happening to us, you know, not knowing what's 1639 01:27:16.319 --> 01:27:18.960 going on from day to day, dealing with our bullshit 1640 01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:23.000 when we come back. Like it's not just the post 1641 01:27:23.039 --> 01:27:25.680 service life that that they have to wrestle with, but 1642 01:27:25.720 --> 01:27:28.279 a lot of times it's it's it's that continuum. 1643 01:27:29.920 --> 01:27:31.520 Yeah, no, it started. 1644 01:27:32.439 --> 01:27:35.039 You know, it started for Lindsay when I went down revenge, 1645 01:27:35.359 --> 01:27:37.640 you know, or even before, you know, pressure from her 1646 01:27:37.680 --> 01:27:40.840 family to you know, should you not get married to 1647 01:27:40.840 --> 01:27:42.720 this guy because what happens if he doesn't come home? 1648 01:27:42.800 --> 01:27:47.920 Like it's you know, the families carry so much, and 1649 01:27:48.079 --> 01:27:51.479 I like, I don't I don't want to compare traumas 1650 01:27:51.520 --> 01:27:54.159 and I don't want to compare. But I think there's 1651 01:27:54.199 --> 01:27:57.119 a fair argument that could be made that the families 1652 01:27:57.600 --> 01:28:02.000 that the adult children who grew up with dad or 1653 01:28:02.079 --> 01:28:04.720 mom going to war and wondering if dad or Mom's 1654 01:28:04.720 --> 01:28:06.960 ever going to come home, and the spouses who had 1655 01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:09.319 to hold the fork down at home and then how 1656 01:28:09.359 --> 01:28:12.680 much worse can it get when we get home, they 1657 01:28:12.760 --> 01:28:15.359 might need access to this and to heal more than 1658 01:28:15.399 --> 01:28:19.039 the veterans. Like, there's an argument that could be made. 1659 01:28:19.239 --> 01:28:20.119 Yeah, it's fascinating. 1660 01:28:21.039 --> 01:28:24.840 And so the veteran component of Beyond Iba game that 1661 01:28:24.880 --> 01:28:27.680 you've helped set up is Beyond service. And you said 1662 01:28:27.680 --> 01:28:29.920 you've sent like fifty people down there so far. 1663 01:28:31.199 --> 01:28:31.439 Yeah. 1664 01:28:31.479 --> 01:28:35.760 So we started our first group in January and we'll 1665 01:28:35.800 --> 01:28:39.640 have actually this week will be our fiftieth, so our 1666 01:28:39.760 --> 01:28:42.920 tenth cohort, and we go in groups of five. So 1667 01:28:43.359 --> 01:28:46.439 you know, by the time your listeners and viewers see this, well, 1668 01:28:46.520 --> 01:28:48.880 we'll have put fifty people through the program. Our goal 1669 01:28:48.960 --> 01:28:51.039 is to do as close to one hundred as we 1670 01:28:51.079 --> 01:28:54.600 can this year. You know, funding, funding is certainly a 1671 01:28:54.640 --> 01:28:57.920 part of that to go to beyond and to sit 1672 01:28:57.960 --> 01:29:00.600 with this treatment as a civilian as about a fifteen 1673 01:29:00.640 --> 01:29:04.720 thousand dollars investment, I would say, hands down the best 1674 01:29:04.760 --> 01:29:09.520 investment I've ever made, bar none. But it's not cheap, 1675 01:29:09.680 --> 01:29:12.199 and it's because of the clinical safety. 1676 01:29:12.239 --> 01:29:14.760 It's because of all the components. 1677 01:29:14.239 --> 01:29:19.479 That go outside of the capsules and the clinical observation. 1678 01:29:19.520 --> 01:29:23.279 It's the coaching, it's the mentoring. Like there's a whole 1679 01:29:23.359 --> 01:29:28.399 ecosystem that goes with being successful long term integration. So 1680 01:29:28.479 --> 01:29:34.439 like we we are the probably the most structured program, 1681 01:29:34.960 --> 01:29:39.520 and our participants go through So our participants go through 1682 01:29:39.520 --> 01:29:42.359 a program, and you know, I think there's two things 1683 01:29:42.359 --> 01:29:44.720 that people are often missing most when they get out 1684 01:29:44.720 --> 01:29:49.159 of the military, and it's teamwork and structure, and we 1685 01:29:49.640 --> 01:29:50.439 try to offer. 1686 01:29:50.239 --> 01:29:50.840 Both of those. 1687 01:29:51.159 --> 01:29:54.800 So instead of going on this big experience by yourself, 1688 01:29:55.159 --> 01:29:58.239 you go with a team, you know, it's it's a 1689 01:29:58.279 --> 01:30:00.439 lot easier to run out the door of the airplane 1690 01:30:00.439 --> 01:30:02.479 when there's someone behind you who's going to push you out. 1691 01:30:04.119 --> 01:30:07.239 And then also the structures, so you have a peer 1692 01:30:07.279 --> 01:30:11.199 facilitator who is not a We're not therapist, and we're 1693 01:30:11.199 --> 01:30:13.000 not social workers, and we're not psychologists. 1694 01:30:13.279 --> 01:30:13.840 It's a peer. 1695 01:30:14.000 --> 01:30:16.800 It's someone like me who has sat with this medicine 1696 01:30:17.119 --> 01:30:21.720 who can say, hey, this was my experience. It's normaliz 1697 01:30:21.800 --> 01:30:24.000 things a little bit. So it's pure guided, but they 1698 01:30:24.039 --> 01:30:26.600 also give you homework. You have writing assignments, you have 1699 01:30:26.680 --> 01:30:30.000 reading assignments, you have video assignments. Like it's not a 1700 01:30:30.000 --> 01:30:32.199 free ride, you know, just because it doesn't cost you 1701 01:30:32.239 --> 01:30:36.039 anything financially besides the plane ticket. You do four weeks 1702 01:30:36.039 --> 01:30:39.560 of pretty intensive preparation to get ready for this experience. 1703 01:30:39.880 --> 01:30:42.039 You do eight days on site, and you do four 1704 01:30:42.039 --> 01:30:46.600 weeks of guided integration afterwards. And that's the most robust 1705 01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:50.119 preparation and integration program that I know of in the 1706 01:30:50.199 --> 01:30:51.159 in the ibanking space. 1707 01:30:53.279 --> 01:30:57.359 You already mentioned a handful of takeaways from the Eyebo 1708 01:30:57.439 --> 01:30:59.479 Gain experience. Are there any others that you want to 1709 01:30:59.800 --> 01:31:03.359 touch upon? Uh with this topic? 1710 01:31:04.399 --> 01:31:08.119 Yeah, I mean, it's look, it's it's everyone's you know, 1711 01:31:08.159 --> 01:31:11.399 there's there's a couple here. Everyone has a unique experience. 1712 01:31:11.920 --> 01:31:12.680 But it's effective. 1713 01:31:12.880 --> 01:31:16.359 Okay, so we see, you know, let's look at statistics. 1714 01:31:17.640 --> 01:31:18.520 We see, you. 1715 01:31:18.479 --> 01:31:22.920 Know, what's the problem. Well, the age adjusted suicide rate 1716 01:31:23.039 --> 01:31:26.279 for veterans is over twice the national average for non 1717 01:31:26.680 --> 01:31:31.079 veteran adults. We see almost two times the divorce rate 1718 01:31:31.359 --> 01:31:35.319 in military and veteran couples as we do in the 1719 01:31:35.479 --> 01:31:40.359 US standard. Twenty twenty four Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment 1720 01:31:40.840 --> 01:31:43.439 says that substance abuse among veterans is twenty to thirty 1721 01:31:43.479 --> 01:31:46.680 percent higher than the ag justin national average. Like there 1722 01:31:46.760 --> 01:31:51.560 is a problem, and this is it can work. It 1723 01:31:51.600 --> 01:31:54.159 does work for those who want to do this. So 1724 01:31:54.279 --> 01:31:57.760 like there's there's a couple parts here is like I 1725 01:31:57.840 --> 01:32:01.279 begain is not for everyone, but the fact that one's 1726 01:32:01.319 --> 01:32:05.000 clinically proven to work. So look up doctor Nolan Williams. 1727 01:32:05.000 --> 01:32:10.640 The Stanford University research that shows eighty percent, eighty percent 1728 01:32:10.920 --> 01:32:15.960 eliminate I believe it's elimination of moderate or severe PTSD. 1729 01:32:16.079 --> 01:32:18.840 Six months after sitting with ibagain, eighty percent of their 1730 01:32:18.880 --> 01:32:21.800 participants did not qualify for PTSD. On the p OF 1731 01:32:21.880 --> 01:32:28.359 I think it's PSQ nine. We do neurotransmitter testing. It's anecdotal, 1732 01:32:28.479 --> 01:32:32.560 but it's still data, and so it's not like brainscan. 1733 01:32:33.000 --> 01:32:37.560 It's it's qualitative, not anctdotal. It's qualitative research. This shows 1734 01:32:37.600 --> 01:32:41.159 a seventy percent increase in dopamine and serotonin reuptake a 1735 01:32:41.239 --> 01:32:45.239 month after sitting with this medicine. And that is that's 1736 01:32:45.319 --> 01:32:48.680 now across an average of about forty people who have 1737 01:32:48.760 --> 01:32:50.479 gone through and have been a month out of their 1738 01:32:50.520 --> 01:32:54.680 their treatment. Like this really works, but it's not a 1739 01:32:54.680 --> 01:32:58.279 magic pill. And so as we you know, right now, 1740 01:32:58.920 --> 01:33:02.720 I estimated of the post nine to eleven veteran community 1741 01:33:03.640 --> 01:33:06.520 point zero zero four percent have had access to IV. 1742 01:33:07.319 --> 01:33:08.119 It's never going to. 1743 01:33:08.039 --> 01:33:10.199 Be one hundred, and it doesn't have to be one hundred, 1744 01:33:10.479 --> 01:33:14.279 but we need to democratize access to this medicine. We've 1745 01:33:14.359 --> 01:33:17.960 partnered with a company Born Primitive, which is an apparel company, 1746 01:33:18.000 --> 01:33:21.359 and we did a fundraiser and we're trying to change 1747 01:33:21.359 --> 01:33:26.159 the paradigm and say to companies commercial ventures for profit 1748 01:33:26.199 --> 01:33:30.840 commercial ventures that instead of be a part of the movement, 1749 01:33:30.960 --> 01:33:32.920 be a part of the change. We don't want to 1750 01:33:33.039 --> 01:33:37.279 rely on philanthropic donations. We want to take companies like 1751 01:33:37.359 --> 01:33:40.439 Born Primitive who say, hey, we want to end veteran 1752 01:33:40.479 --> 01:33:45.359 suicide and do a corporate partnership to sponsor people. And 1753 01:33:45.399 --> 01:33:48.239 there's a cohort that's going down as a result of 1754 01:33:48.279 --> 01:33:55.640 their partnership. It's incredibly beneficial work. And yet it doesn't, 1755 01:33:55.720 --> 01:33:58.520 you know, it doesn't, it doesn't just happen overnight, like 1756 01:33:58.520 --> 01:34:01.359 we have to build to this. But one hundred people 1757 01:34:01.399 --> 01:34:04.720 this year is an incredible start, and it's it's a 1758 01:34:04.800 --> 01:34:07.920 drop in the bucket, and we know what we're trying 1759 01:34:07.960 --> 01:34:10.199 to do is get to a point where we can 1760 01:34:10.560 --> 01:34:15.600 you know, me having this conversation whoever listens hopefully destigmatizes 1761 01:34:15.640 --> 01:34:18.479 it destigmatizes psychedelics in some way. 1762 01:34:20.159 --> 01:34:20.720 You know, we don't. 1763 01:34:20.760 --> 01:34:23.800 We didn't talk about my experience because like my visuals 1764 01:34:25.159 --> 01:34:27.720 were unique to me, my learnings were unique to me. 1765 01:34:28.399 --> 01:34:29.960 If it come to be on service, I'll tell you 1766 01:34:30.039 --> 01:34:32.439 all about it. But like it's more of the theme 1767 01:34:32.520 --> 01:34:36.720 of like this healing does work and and wanting to 1768 01:34:36.760 --> 01:34:40.279 get that out there. But also it's not a magic pill, right, 1769 01:34:40.359 --> 01:34:43.640 So when we look at things like the Texas Ibagain Commission, 1770 01:34:43.920 --> 01:34:47.239 who you know, thank god, has committed fifty million dollars 1771 01:34:47.279 --> 01:34:51.880 to a private public partnership to research and hopefully get 1772 01:34:51.920 --> 01:34:57.039 FDA approval for I have again as a therapy. That's amazing, 1773 01:34:57.800 --> 01:35:02.239 but it doesn't happen in a sterile va hospital bed. 1774 01:35:03.479 --> 01:35:04.680 It's not a magic pill. 1775 01:35:05.279 --> 01:35:07.680 So we need to change the paradigm of how and 1776 01:35:07.720 --> 01:35:09.359 that's what we're trying to do with Beyond Service. We're 1777 01:35:09.359 --> 01:35:12.039 trying to set the gold standard of how this care 1778 01:35:12.159 --> 01:35:15.720 is given. And oh, by the way, in five years, 1779 01:35:15.760 --> 01:35:20.640 when the FDA does their clinical study and in collaboration 1780 01:35:20.720 --> 01:35:25.279 with Texas, they'll probably put twenty people through. Well at 1781 01:35:25.279 --> 01:35:28.279 the same time, why can't we put two thousand people 1782 01:35:28.319 --> 01:35:33.720 through by then? And you know, if we we have 1783 01:35:33.760 --> 01:35:36.479 a goal and it's it's it's a north star, but 1784 01:35:36.520 --> 01:35:38.560 we're like, I want to get there. Is if twenty 1785 01:35:38.560 --> 01:35:41.479 two veterans a day are dying from suicide, why don't 1786 01:35:41.479 --> 01:35:43.640 we treat twenty two people a day? Why don't we 1787 01:35:43.680 --> 01:35:46.079 treat six hundred and sixty people a month? Why not? 1788 01:35:46.760 --> 01:35:48.399 Yeah? 1789 01:35:48.560 --> 01:35:51.600 Did you I know that you before you didn't do 1790 01:35:51.640 --> 01:35:53.479 a lot of research and it you know, it was 1791 01:35:53.520 --> 01:35:55.359 your friend who had who had done the IBA gain. 1792 01:35:56.119 --> 01:35:58.399 But can you at all, can you speak at all 1793 01:35:58.439 --> 01:36:02.840 to like a perish into like, uh, people are doing 1794 01:36:02.840 --> 01:36:06.039 similar things with ayahuasca or psilocybin, you know, the like. 1795 01:36:06.079 --> 01:36:10.079 There are clinics popping up everywhere trying to help and 1796 01:36:10.119 --> 01:36:13.279 tackle this problem. 1797 01:36:13.319 --> 01:36:18.199 So there's there's no wrong way. I mean they're they're 1798 01:36:18.239 --> 01:36:22.800 wrong way, that's sure. They all have their place. So 1799 01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:25.279 so I am you know, I'll never say, oh, psilocybin 1800 01:36:25.279 --> 01:36:28.800 doesn't work. Still seven absolutely works and ayahuasca can you know, 1801 01:36:28.880 --> 01:36:31.000 does too? And five at B O d M T. 1802 01:36:32.199 --> 01:36:35.039 One of the benefits of ibogaine which you know, we 1803 01:36:35.159 --> 01:36:37.319 talked to some of the spirituality part of it, but 1804 01:36:37.439 --> 01:36:40.680 also there's the there's like the neurochemical part of it. 1805 01:36:41.119 --> 01:36:46.640 So I begains the longest period of neuroplasticity of any 1806 01:36:46.680 --> 01:36:50.359 of the plant medicines. Okay, So when we look at 1807 01:36:50.359 --> 01:36:54.520 so IV again, when you take the capsule, it metabolizes 1808 01:36:54.680 --> 01:36:57.560 and is stored in the body as nor ivgain as 1809 01:36:57.560 --> 01:37:01.199 the metabolite. Nor I gain is stored in the liver 1810 01:37:01.840 --> 01:37:04.600 and it's slowly released over sixty to ninety days. If 1811 01:37:04.600 --> 01:37:06.439 you take care of yourself and you get some sleep 1812 01:37:06.479 --> 01:37:09.600 and you you know, you don't drink. That's a huge 1813 01:37:09.600 --> 01:37:12.319 part of storing nor I begain in the liver and 1814 01:37:12.359 --> 01:37:17.399 it's slowly released. Nor I'VE again increases the production of 1815 01:37:17.439 --> 01:37:22.399 BDNF and GDNF in the brain and it is that 1816 01:37:22.560 --> 01:37:26.800 is one of the key parts of neuroplasticity. So people 1817 01:37:27.239 --> 01:37:31.479 leave I'VE again with about a sixty to day, sixty 1818 01:37:31.479 --> 01:37:34.760 to ninety day window of being able to learn like 1819 01:37:34.800 --> 01:37:37.359 you were a seven year old. Again, like your brain 1820 01:37:37.439 --> 01:37:40.720 becomes a sponge and if you nurture that, so like 1821 01:37:41.319 --> 01:37:44.640 you can whether you want to learn German start a 1822 01:37:44.720 --> 01:37:49.920 meditative practice. What if we want to rework trauma responses 1823 01:37:50.319 --> 01:37:54.239 and go through like your brain can literally learn faster 1824 01:37:54.920 --> 01:38:01.520 and retain learning more. So that is a unique difference 1825 01:38:01.560 --> 01:38:04.600 of iv A GAIN and other plant medicines. And what 1826 01:38:04.640 --> 01:38:07.000 we try to do is we try to like we 1827 01:38:07.079 --> 01:38:09.159 try to do everything we can, so we do this 1828 01:38:09.279 --> 01:38:14.199 preparation work so people can maximize their spiritual healing, but 1829 01:38:14.359 --> 01:38:17.000 then and their trauma healing and like the emotional side 1830 01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:20.399 of it. But then our integration work is based on 1831 01:38:20.439 --> 01:38:24.800 the neuroplasticity, like how do we change and the thought 1832 01:38:24.840 --> 01:38:28.439 process And we've got this ninety day window and how 1833 01:38:28.479 --> 01:38:32.039 do we make the most of it. So like there 1834 01:38:32.079 --> 01:38:36.199 are you know, many of these medicines are complementary, and 1835 01:38:36.439 --> 01:38:38.840 people will be called to different medicines at a different time. 1836 01:38:40.359 --> 01:38:42.399 But you know, one of the things for me that 1837 01:38:42.439 --> 01:38:46.279 made IV again so special is in a that ninety 1838 01:38:46.359 --> 01:38:51.520 day window to really like our military experience has hard 1839 01:38:51.560 --> 01:38:54.079 coded so many things in our brain and then to 1840 01:38:54.119 --> 01:38:59.479 have a ninety day window to recode our brains is 1841 01:38:59.680 --> 01:39:04.800 I think incredibly important to the longevity because we're trying 1842 01:39:04.840 --> 01:39:07.600 to build something that doesn't require a re up. We're 1843 01:39:07.640 --> 01:39:11.239 trying to build something that doesn't require a prescription. Like 1844 01:39:11.399 --> 01:39:14.640 one of our coaches sat with this medicine three years ago. 1845 01:39:15.760 --> 01:39:20.199 He hasn't relapsed, He hasn't gone back and sat with 1846 01:39:20.239 --> 01:39:23.760 it again. Like he took those learnings, made changes to 1847 01:39:23.880 --> 01:39:27.039 his life and is now running with it and doesn't 1848 01:39:27.079 --> 01:39:28.399 have to have a sustainment. 1849 01:39:28.960 --> 01:39:31.920 He is his sustainment. That's what we're trying to build. 1850 01:39:33.199 --> 01:39:35.399 And then how does it work with. 1851 01:39:36.920 --> 01:39:40.520 You know, so many other things, Like we had doctor 1852 01:39:40.560 --> 01:39:44.439 Chris free on last week talking about operator syndrome, and 1853 01:39:44.479 --> 01:39:47.439 it's such a compilation, right, It's not just the post 1854 01:39:47.479 --> 01:39:51.079 amount of stress or the blast injuries, you know, the 1855 01:39:51.199 --> 01:39:53.359 sleep deprivation or sleep apnea. 1856 01:39:53.600 --> 01:39:56.039 You know, all these different things that line up. 1857 01:39:56.640 --> 01:40:00.000 So how do you ensure that, like in those posts 1858 01:40:00.239 --> 01:40:04.600 ninety days, that there aren't other factors that may not 1859 01:40:04.760 --> 01:40:07.880 be you know, the sort of psychological factors or the 1860 01:40:07.880 --> 01:40:11.600 spiritual factors, but that they don't you know, sort of 1861 01:40:12.279 --> 01:40:16.399 put somebody in this neuroplasticity or you know, this kind 1862 01:40:16.479 --> 01:40:20.760 of phase where they don't sort of compound and you know, 1863 01:40:21.359 --> 01:40:22.920 uh revert people. 1864 01:40:23.279 --> 01:40:24.119 Does that make sense? 1865 01:40:25.039 --> 01:40:29.279 Absolutely? And they may, you know, and that's where where 1866 01:40:29.479 --> 01:40:34.000 they're you know, we're not we're not your parents, right, 1867 01:40:34.039 --> 01:40:36.319 and we're not therapists, right, So we can we can 1868 01:40:36.359 --> 01:40:38.560 show you a roadmap and then it's up to you 1869 01:40:38.640 --> 01:40:40.319 whether or not you want to you want to stick 1870 01:40:40.319 --> 01:40:42.800 to that roadmap. So those things do come up. Four 1871 01:40:42.880 --> 01:40:45.399 days after coming home, I was a dumpster fire and 1872 01:40:45.439 --> 01:40:48.439 I'm like, where did all these good things go? I'm 1873 01:40:48.479 --> 01:40:51.159 falling apart and in my coach and I want all 1874 01:40:51.359 --> 01:40:53.760 so we have access to one on one coaching, and 1875 01:40:53.840 --> 01:40:56.239 my coach is like, dude, you're doing exactly what you 1876 01:40:56.279 --> 01:40:58.199 were doing before you went down there. You have to 1877 01:40:58.239 --> 01:41:02.199 do something different and that like reset the learnings from 1878 01:41:02.239 --> 01:41:05.319 my first AA meeting, and I was like, wait, I 1879 01:41:06.279 --> 01:41:09.600 can't fall back into old habits if I want to change, 1880 01:41:10.760 --> 01:41:15.279 So that coaching is now brought into our into our 1881 01:41:16.479 --> 01:41:18.920 like the stickiness, the integration, the stickiness. 1882 01:41:19.760 --> 01:41:21.720 Do a lot of work with needs. 1883 01:41:21.840 --> 01:41:25.239 So you know, unknown needs are unmet needs. And I 1884 01:41:25.239 --> 01:41:27.399 can tell you as a thirty six year old man 1885 01:41:27.479 --> 01:41:29.680 or thirty seven when I went down there, I didn't 1886 01:41:29.720 --> 01:41:33.680 know what my needs were, right, I thought I did. 1887 01:41:33.760 --> 01:41:36.439 I thought it was shelter, food, security, you know whatever. 1888 01:41:36.800 --> 01:41:40.359 But I didn't understand my needs of community and my 1889 01:41:40.560 --> 01:41:44.279 needs of nature and like for needs. So we try 1890 01:41:44.279 --> 01:41:46.600 to do a lot of work with our participants if 1891 01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:49.159 they want to and if they choose to do the 1892 01:41:49.199 --> 01:41:53.239 work to identify needs. So that like when and it's 1893 01:41:53.319 --> 01:41:55.439 all and that's a tool, right, So it's a tool 1894 01:41:55.479 --> 01:41:59.079 to understand yourself a little bit better. So inevitably, when 1895 01:41:59.239 --> 01:42:01.239 all of those things you mentioned that are in the 1896 01:42:01.359 --> 01:42:06.600 very complex realm of operator syndrome, within the first seven days, 1897 01:42:06.920 --> 01:42:10.239 when you're home and you're by yourself and those things 1898 01:42:10.279 --> 01:42:14.239 are going to come in, do you have the tools 1899 01:42:14.960 --> 01:42:18.119 and a community to fall back on to navigate it. 1900 01:42:18.880 --> 01:42:21.920 If yes, then we might be successful. 1901 01:42:22.079 --> 01:42:26.520 Yeah, that's fantastic, interesting Clayton, Where can people go to 1902 01:42:26.560 --> 01:42:31.560 find beyond eyebo gain and beyond service People who want 1903 01:42:31.560 --> 01:42:35.039 to get involved or or want to get the treatment themselves, 1904 01:42:35.039 --> 01:42:35.840 where should they look? 1905 01:42:36.880 --> 01:42:40.800 Yeah, so beyond ivagain dot com is the website. Beyond 1906 01:42:40.840 --> 01:42:44.279 iv A, gain, B E O, n D. Beyond ivagain 1907 01:42:44.319 --> 01:42:49.039 dot com slash Beyond Service is our portion right now. 1908 01:42:49.079 --> 01:42:52.880 We are fully booked for twenty twenty six and we 1909 01:42:53.000 --> 01:42:55.960 are doing everything we can to grow the program to 1910 01:42:56.039 --> 01:42:59.479 double our capacity for next year. So there's a there's 1911 01:42:59.479 --> 01:43:00.960 just a component where you have to do a medical 1912 01:43:00.960 --> 01:43:03.399 screening within a certain amount of time. So admissions is 1913 01:43:03.439 --> 01:43:06.199 closed because we have a backlog that. 1914 01:43:06.199 --> 01:43:07.319 Extends three months. 1915 01:43:07.760 --> 01:43:10.720 But if someone goes there, you can put your information in, 1916 01:43:11.920 --> 01:43:14.119 submit your information, It goes to a real person, It 1917 01:43:14.159 --> 01:43:17.119 goes to me and other people on our team. And 1918 01:43:17.359 --> 01:43:19.800 as soon as we can open admissions again and we're 1919 01:43:19.800 --> 01:43:22.960 in that window to do the clinical questionnaires and the 1920 01:43:22.960 --> 01:43:24.439 clinical screenings. 1921 01:43:24.199 --> 01:43:26.279 To get people seated with the medicine. 1922 01:43:26.920 --> 01:43:28.479 We're going to reach out and we're going to do 1923 01:43:28.560 --> 01:43:33.239 another round of admissions. So look, we're growing this as 1924 01:43:33.279 --> 01:43:36.800 fast as we can. The need greatly outstrips the demand, 1925 01:43:36.800 --> 01:43:40.000 and the need greatly outstrips the resources. But we've got 1926 01:43:40.039 --> 01:43:42.239 a team of volunteers and the team of people that 1927 01:43:41.880 --> 01:43:46.159 are dedicating it sounds like hyperbole, we're dedicating our lives 1928 01:43:46.279 --> 01:43:49.479 to doing this to open one more seat. 1929 01:43:49.640 --> 01:43:51.439 Like that's it's still the mission. 1930 01:43:51.479 --> 01:43:53.279 If we can get one more person in a bed 1931 01:43:53.359 --> 01:43:55.600 that needs this treatment, we're going to do it right. 1932 01:43:56.680 --> 01:43:58.960 Clayton, thank you for sharing your story with us and 1933 01:43:59.039 --> 01:44:01.399 informing people about some of these, you know, kind of 1934 01:44:01.399 --> 01:44:03.199 cutting edge treatments that are coming about. 1935 01:44:05.079 --> 01:44:05.439 Thank you. 1936 01:44:05.720 --> 01:44:08.800 Yeah, there's you know one thing that I I really 1937 01:44:08.840 --> 01:44:10.399 I really appreciate it. And I know we went you 1938 01:44:10.399 --> 01:44:12.119 know this is this is long form. It was fun. 1939 01:44:12.159 --> 01:44:14.399 We didn't have to keep everything to dense to twenty 1940 01:44:14.439 --> 01:44:17.000 minutes the top talking point. And I appreciate you guys 1941 01:44:17.079 --> 01:44:21.000 letting me ramble. You know, there's there's one thing to 1942 01:44:21.079 --> 01:44:21.880 kind of leave you on. 1943 01:44:22.960 --> 01:44:26.520 And you know, our generation. 1944 01:44:28.000 --> 01:44:31.319 That we share as a generation at war and you know, 1945 01:44:31.439 --> 01:44:35.319 not not everyone went to war, but a lot of 1946 01:44:35.399 --> 01:44:41.640 us did and for twenty years, and this can't be 1947 01:44:41.800 --> 01:44:47.159 solved with just VA prescriptions and talk therapy. We've got 1948 01:44:47.159 --> 01:44:51.279 to do everything. We've got to do everything for our community. 1949 01:44:52.159 --> 01:44:55.239 We have an entire generation of men and women who 1950 01:44:55.760 --> 01:44:58.840 matured their brain, fully formed their frontal cortex. We were 1951 01:44:58.840 --> 01:45:00.880 talking about the eighteen to twenty two year olds that 1952 01:45:00.880 --> 01:45:04.600 were in firefights. You know, as men, we fully form 1953 01:45:04.640 --> 01:45:07.119 our brains between the ages of eighteen to twenty five. 1954 01:45:07.239 --> 01:45:10.520 Women mature a little sooner. We have an entire generation 1955 01:45:11.239 --> 01:45:14.800 that fully formed their executive function, their ability to understand 1956 01:45:14.800 --> 01:45:18.960 emotions at war or preparing to go to war, taking 1957 01:45:19.079 --> 01:45:21.960 life or fearing that their life. 1958 01:45:21.800 --> 01:45:22.439 Would be taken. 1959 01:45:23.760 --> 01:45:25.840 You think we have a problem of people that don't 1960 01:45:25.840 --> 01:45:27.960 know how to feel love, who don't know how to 1961 01:45:27.960 --> 01:45:32.439 feel forgiveness. It's an epidemic and this is a tool. 1962 01:45:32.760 --> 01:45:38.159 It's not for everyone, but it's a tool, and there's 1963 01:45:38.199 --> 01:45:41.840 an entire generation of men and women who can heal 1964 01:45:42.720 --> 01:45:45.720 and their kids don't have to take this trauma forward. 1965 01:45:46.760 --> 01:45:49.159 And that's what we're trying to do, is like, if 1966 01:45:49.199 --> 01:45:51.840 we can teach these men and women to love and 1967 01:45:51.920 --> 01:45:56.079 forgive and grow me included, Like I'm patient zero, Like 1968 01:45:56.159 --> 01:45:58.159 I am on the same journey as everyone else, and 1969 01:45:58.199 --> 01:45:59.960 I am certainly not a guru. I am just paid 1970 01:46:00.279 --> 01:46:01.640 zero and I was there a couple of months. 1971 01:46:01.479 --> 01:46:02.600 Before the rest. 1972 01:46:02.920 --> 01:46:07.199 And if we can continue this work, maybe kids won't 1973 01:46:07.239 --> 01:46:11.039 tell the story that our generation told of our Vietnam 1974 01:46:11.119 --> 01:46:13.960 alcoholic dads. I didn't have one of those, but certainly 1975 01:46:14.000 --> 01:46:16.800 there's a lot of those stories of oh my dad 1976 01:46:16.880 --> 01:46:18.960 didn't talk about it. He just got drunk and yelled 1977 01:46:18.960 --> 01:46:21.720 at my mom. We can stop that, and this is 1978 01:46:21.760 --> 01:46:24.159 a tool. So thank you guys for having me on 1979 01:46:24.720 --> 01:46:28.920 to raise awareness and to continue this mission and hopefully 1980 01:46:29.359 --> 01:46:32.600 share this with a few folks who wouldn't have considered 1981 01:46:32.640 --> 01:46:36.720 it because it's too fringe, it's too hippie. Look, I'm 1982 01:46:36.720 --> 01:46:40.279 a I'm a tech executive, uh with a with a 1983 01:46:40.319 --> 01:46:43.279 clean haircut. Like the ship's for everyone. It's not just 1984 01:46:43.359 --> 01:46:44.399 it's not just hippi stock. 1985 01:46:44.640 --> 01:46:48.000 Yeah, thanks Clayton. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, 1986 01:46:48.039 --> 01:46:48.520 we we. 1987 01:46:48.439 --> 01:46:50.840 Appreciate you coming on and sharing your story, your journey 1988 01:46:50.920 --> 01:46:53.000 and and you know in this kind of information. 1989 01:46:55.319 --> 01:46:58.119 And we'll see all of you guys later in the week. 1990 01:46:58.439 --> 01:47:03.680 So thank you again, Clayton, and we'll see you then. Hey, guys, 1991 01:47:03.680 --> 01:47:05.199 it's Jack. I just want to talk to you for 1992 01:47:05.239 --> 01:47:07.479 a moment about how you can support the show. If 1993 01:47:07.520 --> 01:47:10.119 you've been watching it, enjoying it, but you'd like to 1994 01:47:10.119 --> 01:47:12.359 get a little bit more involved and help us continue 1995 01:47:12.359 --> 01:47:15.159 to do this, you can check out our Patreon It 1996 01:47:15.279 --> 01:47:19.760 is patreon dot com slash the Teamhouse, and for five 1997 01:47:19.800 --> 01:47:22.199 dollars a month, you can get access to all of 1998 01:47:22.239 --> 01:47:26.239 these episodes of The Teamhouse ad free. The same goes 1999 01:47:26.279 --> 01:47:29.920 with our affiliated podcast eyes On with Andy Milburn, Jason 2000 01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:33.399 Lyons mcmulroy that one you will also get all of 2001 01:47:33.439 --> 01:47:38.000 those episodes add free. And you support the channel and 2002 01:47:38.039 --> 01:47:40.880 the show, and we really appreciate it. The Patreon members 2003 01:47:40.920 --> 01:47:45.600 are literally what has helped this company, this small business survive, 2004 01:47:46.560 --> 01:47:50.279 especially during our early years, and you are what continues 2005 01:47:50.319 --> 01:47:53.399 to help this thing going even as we navigate the 2006 01:47:53.880 --> 01:47:56.079 turbulent world of YouTube advertising. 2007 01:47:56.319 --> 01:47:58.119 So we really appreciate all of you guys. 2008 01:47:59.000 --> 01:48:00.840 There's going to be a link down the description to 2009 01:48:01.039 --> 01:48:04.359 that Patreon page, and there is also going to be 2010 01:48:04.439 --> 01:48:07.199 a link to our new merch shop, so if you 2011 01:48:07.199 --> 01:48:09.479 guys want to go and get some Team House merchandise, 2012 01:48:09.520 --> 01:48:13.079 we got stickers and we also have patches, and I 2013 01:48:13.119 --> 01:48:16.039 should mention if you sign up for Patreon at ten 2014 01:48:16.119 --> 01:48:18.640 dollars a month, we will mail you this patch as well. 2015 01:48:19.840 --> 01:48:21.600 So we really appreciate that. 2016 01:48:22.199 --> 01:48:24.520 But they're also for sale on the merch Shop and 2017 01:48:24.720 --> 01:48:29.079 additionally they got t shirts up there, water bottles, a 2018 01:48:29.119 --> 01:48:33.600 tote bag, coffee mugs, all that good stuff, so please 2019 01:48:33.640 --> 01:48:35.439 go and check them out and support the show. 2020 01:48:35.960 --> 01:49:00.000 We really appreciate it, guys. Thank you,