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<v Speaker 1>With laurn Sagoland from London and Gerard Reed from Berlin.

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<v Speaker 1>This is redefining energy today.

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<v Speaker 2>On referring energy, this is a subject very close to

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<v Speaker 2>my heart, is the fight for proper carbon accounting and

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four seven green power. Now j'are my usual co

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<v Speaker 2>host is not there, but thanks God I found a

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<v Speaker 2>replacement another Irish guy. Welcome Killian Daily.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks very much for having me along. I'm happy to

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<v Speaker 1>fly the flag of Ireland. Enjoyed as absent.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is in partnership with a company I've invested

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<v Speaker 2>into called Renewable, and Renewable is a procurement and sustain

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<v Speaker 2>meety platform for temporal match renewable energy. Now we'll discuss

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<v Speaker 2>a bit later, but first I want to look back.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the Greenhouse Guest protocol, how important it is and

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<v Speaker 2>how we are really Killian at a cross road right

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<v Speaker 2>now because the version three is in debate. Now you

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<v Speaker 2>are executive director of Energy Tech. Can you explain a

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<v Speaker 2>bit what Energy Tag is.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So, Energy Tag is a nonprofit. Basically, we advocate

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<v Speaker 1>for reforms in clean electricity markets and carbon accounting, ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>with the end goal of delivering clean power around the clock.

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<v Speaker 1>Today's markets and accounting structures just basically don't do that.

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<v Speaker 2>Now Companies cooking their books and trying to transform reporting

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<v Speaker 2>into a pr exercise. That's not new. For instance, if

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<v Speaker 2>we look back before the nineteen twenty nine crash, companies

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<v Speaker 2>were reporting their financials the way they wanted. So every

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<v Speaker 2>time there's a crisis, there are standards that come in.

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<v Speaker 2>So now, of course the financial standouts are pretty established

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<v Speaker 2>and accepted by everybody. Now, what happened is that in

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<v Speaker 2>the nineties, as the whole conversation around climate change and

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<v Speaker 2>emission tradings out to appear, what we realized and what

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<v Speaker 2>government realized is that company were reporting their C two

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<v Speaker 2>emission in a very disorganized, self serving way. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think the government toold the industry. Look, guys, whether you

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<v Speaker 2>come with a common standout to report your CEO two

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<v Speaker 2>or we'll do it ourselves. So in nineteen ninety eight,

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<v Speaker 2>two NGO one in the US called the World Resource Institute,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know one in Switzerland called the World Business

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<v Speaker 2>Council for Development put together a task force to write

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<v Speaker 2>that first Greener's Gas Protocol.

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<v Speaker 1>I fully agree, In fact, I have sort of personal

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<v Speaker 1>experience of this. So before energy tag, what I used

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<v Speaker 1>to do was buy electricity, wholesale electricity for a French

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<v Speaker 1>company called aeri Quid, which consumes more electricity than my

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<v Speaker 1>home country of Ireland forty two an hours a year.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is big stuff, right, And one day I'll

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<v Speaker 1>be buying electricity where obviously you have to match your

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<v Speaker 1>demand on an hourly basis and electricity markets with real power,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the next day I would go and do

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<v Speaker 1>the carbon accounting. And this world is it is a

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<v Speaker 1>bit of a parallel universe. You can claim to be

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<v Speaker 1>solar powered at night, you can claim that you're consuming

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<v Speaker 1>icelandic hydro for your operations in Italy. It's really something

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<v Speaker 1>that is detached from reality and unfortunately that's where we're

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<v Speaker 1>at today with carbon accounting. It's rules that were set

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<v Speaker 1>up maybe twenty years ago when we were kicking off

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<v Speaker 1>the renewable energy revolution, but now it's just simply not

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<v Speaker 1>really fit for purpose anymore when we need to think

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<v Speaker 1>about storage, flexibility and ultimately all the solutions we need

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<v Speaker 1>to integrate renewables around the clock.

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<v Speaker 2>The task force was composed of about thirty forty people,

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<v Speaker 2>and I wasn't one of them at the time I

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<v Speaker 2>was working at PwC. We brought the accounting expertise into

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<v Speaker 2>the building of the gunas GAES Portocol, which took probably

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<v Speaker 2>three years to put together. That the interesting thing is

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<v Speaker 2>it started by the shell of reporting SHELL as an

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<v Speaker 2>extraordinary technical seal two reporting standards. And they arrived and

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<v Speaker 2>they just say, oh, you know, we're Shell, We're so good.

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<v Speaker 2>We're just going to remove SHELL reporting and we're gonna

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<v Speaker 2>put global reporting. He said the guy, wait, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we need to figure out and look, on one hand,

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<v Speaker 2>it was technically extraordinary, and on the other was extremely

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<v Speaker 2>self serving because at the time, and of course now

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<v Speaker 2>everybody knows scope one scope too scop through. But at

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<v Speaker 2>the time it was direct and indirect, So you had

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<v Speaker 2>direct emissions which were like your responsibility, and indirect were

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<v Speaker 2>like other people's problem. And the whole game of Shell

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<v Speaker 2>was just to spend his time taking some of their

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<v Speaker 2>direct emission and doing a lot of explanation where in

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<v Speaker 2>fact they should be indirect. We start publishing a first

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<v Speaker 2>draft and a certain number of companies were volunteer to

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<v Speaker 2>execute the first draft, and everybody would report the same way,

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<v Speaker 2>which was already a big progress. And I was in

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<v Speaker 2>charge of the aluminium sector, so all the aluminium sector

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<v Speaker 2>companies were supposed to use the protocol. And I end

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<v Speaker 2>up twenty five years ago a Tomago, which is the

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<v Speaker 2>biggest aluminium smelter in Australia. It's a great you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the tour and you know, they welcome me and it's

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<v Speaker 2>a beautiful plant. It's newcastles with between Sydney and Brisbane,

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<v Speaker 2>and the tour around, mister Segalen and now we're so clean,

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<v Speaker 2>We're so clean. We saw like, oh, your protocol is

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<v Speaker 2>going to show that we are so clean. So I

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<v Speaker 2>said great. You know, after like an hour and a

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<v Speaker 2>half of propaganda, I go back on the parking lot

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<v Speaker 2>and then above my head I'll see all those wires

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<v Speaker 2>and literally across the fence. So it was not an expression,

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<v Speaker 2>it was for real. There was eight hundred megawat coal

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<v Speaker 2>plants running twenty four seven for a Tomago smelter. And

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<v Speaker 2>I said, what about those emissions? And I said, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they're not mine, yeah, but indirectly they're yours. And the

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<v Speaker 2>guy at this wonderful sentence, he say, of course I know.

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<v Speaker 2>If I report my direct emission, that's two ton of

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<v Speaker 2>sew two aluminium. But if I include the cold plant,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm up to twenty ton of sew tube aluminium. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not an idiot. I'm not going to report it. And

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<v Speaker 2>then the guy put me back into taxi. I say,

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<v Speaker 2>I was so pissed off that when we're the next

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<v Speaker 2>iteration of the conversation around the glass Parker, that's the

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<v Speaker 2>verse of the scoop two. Otherwise they just put everything

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<v Speaker 2>in direct So thank you, mister Tomago plant manager. You

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<v Speaker 2>have created the SCOP two.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've heard the story. I really love it, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's an honor to talk to the originator of sculpture

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<v Speaker 1>accounting and to see where we're at with it today. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>Obviously it's been a huge stet. Let's also realize that

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<v Speaker 1>it was very very important to have the protocol set

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<v Speaker 1>up to start to track these emissions. Now, I guess

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<v Speaker 1>where we're at today now the protocol is being revised.

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<v Speaker 1>We're in this phase where ninety six or seven percent

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<v Speaker 1>to the S and P five hundred are using this now.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a huge success. Companies reporting publicly based on

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<v Speaker 1>the protocol consume more power than India annually. Right, So

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<v Speaker 1>this is big stuff. And the incentive structures. We must

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<v Speaker 1>get them right for the next couple a decade of

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<v Speaker 1>the carbonization, and now we're really at this fork in

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<v Speaker 1>the road. There's an update process going on. There's people

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<v Speaker 1>that don't necessarily agree on the direction of travel.

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<v Speaker 2>The interesting thing is that the protocol, the original one,

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<v Speaker 2>did not really address green power because there was simply

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<v Speaker 2>no wind or no solar indus twenty five years ago.

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<v Speaker 2>And in fact, the old green power reporting came about

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen years ago in a bit of a disorganized way

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<v Speaker 2>through system of green certificates, and talk a bit about how,

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<v Speaker 2>in fact the reporting of green power had a bit

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<v Speaker 2>of a parallel truck to CO two and now they're

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<v Speaker 2>going to merge.

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<v Speaker 1>The reporting of green power initially evolved in a kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a simplistic way through man're bal anti tracking systems,

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<v Speaker 1>which are essential to make sure that you're the one

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<v Speaker 1>who's actually claiming that unit of energy and that's not

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<v Speaker 1>being claimed by three other people. The way the systems

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<v Speaker 1>were set up initially probably made sense, but they took

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<v Speaker 1>a very light consideration of how power markets work and

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<v Speaker 1>how the electricity flows through the system. So the way

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<v Speaker 1>today it's still the standard that the way we track

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<v Speaker 1>and claim green power is based on what we call

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<v Speaker 1>an annual matching. So you can claim solar power produced

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle of the day at three o'clock in

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<v Speaker 1>the morning, or you can claim to use green power

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<v Speaker 1>produced in Norway in Spain. For example, today Norway exports

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<v Speaker 1>five to ten times more green power certificates than it

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<v Speaker 1>does physical electricity. So the way we've set up the system,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not really properly tracking the real emissions being delivered

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<v Speaker 1>to consumers, and that's something that we urgently need to address.

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<v Speaker 1>We have companies, for example, all of the big tech

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<v Speaker 1>companies today, they're all already one hundred renewable. This just

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't make sense. They've made important investments and renewables, which

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<v Speaker 1>is great, but to say job done, this is really

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<v Speaker 1>not where're at right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Look I like what you say, because again first there's nothing,

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<v Speaker 2>then there's a standarud and then people try to dodge

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<v Speaker 2>the standard. You're right, in the past ten years will

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<v Speaker 2>do that ESG movement by green and so on. We've

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<v Speaker 2>seen extraordinary claim of people say we're one hundred percent renewable,

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<v Speaker 2>but as you say, a guy's gonna buy green certify

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<v Speaker 2>kids in Arizona and is reporting in Delaware. The grids

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<v Speaker 2>are not even connected together, but you know it's all

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<v Speaker 2>well and fine, which leads to the two main problems

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<v Speaker 2>that you have highlighted. The one is the temporality and

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<v Speaker 2>the second is the geography. And I know there's a

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<v Speaker 2>third one we called additionality. But additionality have heard additionality

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<v Speaker 2>for more than twenty five years. People still talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's impossible. So let's explain exactly what is the matching

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<v Speaker 2>from a geographical point of view and time point of view.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, these are like fundamentals to electricity. So what

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<v Speaker 1>we need is on a power system is to in

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<v Speaker 1>the temporal aspect to match ultimately demand with clean power

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<v Speaker 1>on an hourly basis. Right, that's how the power markets work,

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<v Speaker 1>that's how the grid works today. We're trying to do

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<v Speaker 1>that on an annual basis. So you can be one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred percent solar powered, that's not right. What we need

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<v Speaker 1>is to do it in an hourly basis. So, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to be powered renewable energy at night time,

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<v Speaker 1>well then you have to build a battery and put

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<v Speaker 1>that solar into it during the day and then put

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<v Speaker 1>it out at night. So we set up that incentive

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<v Speaker 1>structure for storage, something that is completely lacking today in

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<v Speaker 1>the standard. So that's number one. Number two is this

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<v Speaker 1>geographical boundary today we've just taken this really broad view,

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<v Speaker 1>especially in Europe and the United States, saying in the US,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll just consider it all completely interconnected. As we know,

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<v Speaker 1>hardly exports any power to the rest of the US.

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<v Speaker 1>But you could be one hundred percent power by Texas

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<v Speaker 1>wind in New York, while in reality you're pulling gas

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<v Speaker 1>from the grid in New York. So you have this disconnect.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not addressing grid congestion, you're not actually tackling the

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<v Speaker 1>hardest hours of decarbonization where you're consuming that power. And

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<v Speaker 1>we need to address these two things. This is not

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<v Speaker 1>a radical concept. This is literally how power markets work today, right.

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<v Speaker 1>We need to just bring that logical power markets and

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<v Speaker 1>bring it into the carbon and green world.

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<v Speaker 2>As usual, the fussy few lobbies say, I hear you,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's not possible, it's too costly. I've heard that

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<v Speaker 2>for twenty five years. So everything is impossible. That's the

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<v Speaker 2>role of energy Tag. Energy tag is really about putting

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<v Speaker 2>forward thinking companies together to demonstrate that technically those temporal

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<v Speaker 2>machine and geographical machine are possible. Now, of course you're

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<v Speaker 2>not going to get two hundred percent immediately unless you're

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<v Speaker 2>in Norway or Quebec or Brazil, but at least you know,

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<v Speaker 2>oh and at least you can track and you can

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<v Speaker 2>track pog guys, because otherwise, as you say, everybody wins,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, every ah, I'm clean, I'm clean, I'm clean,

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<v Speaker 2>which means nothing. So probably go a bit inside the

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<v Speaker 2>role of energy tag.

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<v Speaker 1>I suppose we have a couple of different functions. Obviously

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<v Speaker 1>one of them mentions is like being part of the

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<v Speaker 1>update processes for greenized gas protocol or in regulatory processes

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<v Speaker 1>saying we need to do accounting in this more granular

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<v Speaker 1>hourly way. But also we bring folks together and figure

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<v Speaker 1>out how do we do this tracking. We have open

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<v Speaker 1>source standards for example, how to do this hourly tracking.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is something that's now proven all over the

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<v Speaker 1>world on consumers of all different sizes. This can be

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<v Speaker 1>enabled directly by electricity suppliers like your Octopus Energy in

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<v Speaker 1>the UK, for example, have an hourly matching tariff for

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<v Speaker 1>their business customers. We've shown this working also in the

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<v Speaker 1>US in Asia Pacific region, because again, right, we're fundamentally

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<v Speaker 1>taking data as they're already and just matching that together

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<v Speaker 1>on an hourly basis. So the tracking and the accounting

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<v Speaker 1>is absolutely possible. Some companies like Google are already reporting

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<v Speaker 1>this voluntarily publicly across their global operations. So of course

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<v Speaker 1>once we change these rules, there'll be a kind of

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<v Speaker 1>a phase in period, etc. But we've shown that it's

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<v Speaker 1>technically feasible to do this accounting. Now, as you said,

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<v Speaker 1>is it going to be easy for everyone to be

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred percent renewable and one hundred percent clean everywhere?

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely not, because it's not easy to be that in reality.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's what we need to kind of take a

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<v Speaker 1>step back here and say, right, where are we actually

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<v Speaker 1>at and what investments do we need to make to

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<v Speaker 1>really get to being powered by clean power around the clock.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is kind of the paradigm shift we need

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<v Speaker 1>to have. We need to move away from feeling that

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<v Speaker 1>being one hundred percent renewable by fudging the rules is

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<v Speaker 1>the way forward, right, we need to take a step

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<v Speaker 1>back and think, well, obviously a plenty of solar and

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<v Speaker 1>wind demand response flexibility, clean firm technologies they all have

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<v Speaker 1>to come into the mix if we're going to actually

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<v Speaker 1>decarbonize the grid and deliver cheap power around the clock

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<v Speaker 1>and get rid of fossil fuels in all hours.

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<v Speaker 2>That's all when I'm fine, But that's to twenty one

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<v Speaker 2>and since then you've got the crazy rise of data centers,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course big tech has been a big proponent

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<v Speaker 2>of clean energy. Some play the game, as you name them, Microsoft, Google,

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<v Speaker 2>but others decide to break the thermometer and design their

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<v Speaker 2>own accounting system. And I'm going to name them it's

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<v Speaker 2>Meta and Amazon, Meta and Amazon. I've decided, like man

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<v Speaker 2>the twenty four seven. You know, it's just going to

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<v Speaker 2>show that I'm pouring all all my new data center

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<v Speaker 2>with gas turbines. So I invent a new self reporting protocol.

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<v Speaker 2>But like weworker used to do, and of course they're

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<v Speaker 2>going to show everything isthing's great. You know, data center

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<v Speaker 2>in West Virginia is going to be compensated by a

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<v Speaker 2>wind farm in India. They don't want to play the game.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, I'm saying it here, this is ridiculous,

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't make any sense, but they've put Pyre mooney. So

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<v Speaker 2>every time you hear somebody promoting Meta or Amazon Accounting

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<v Speaker 2>know that they're paid. They are paid all the consultants,

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<v Speaker 2>and every time I call them directly and guy say,

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<v Speaker 2>it's that's stupid, the guys say, yeah, I know, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, I got my check. Let's go back

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<v Speaker 2>to when we did the Scope two. We had very

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<v Speaker 2>very few data. Basically we say we're going to take

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<v Speaker 2>some averages and so on. But now, as you said,

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<v Speaker 2>with the digital we know what's going on every five minutes,

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<v Speaker 2>hour and so on. And the philosophy of the Greeners

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<v Speaker 2>gas potocol at the beginning is when a better measurement

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<v Speaker 2>is introduced, we're going to use the best. So now

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<v Speaker 2>probably explain what's going on on the Scope two, which

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<v Speaker 2>is basically power consumption.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically, we're at an inflection point and we've demonstrated that

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<v Speaker 1>people can can go further than the current rules alive. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So if you're building out a data center, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>you can actually measure where you're at on an hourly

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<v Speaker 1>basis and really which how are really supplying your data center,

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<v Speaker 1>not from some disconnected, faraway land room, like really in

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<v Speaker 1>the same grid region. The solutions are out there today

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<v Speaker 1>to do that. Then you obviously need to think about

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<v Speaker 1>how you're procuring electricity. There's the really interesting analysis done

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<v Speaker 1>by the IA a few months ago on how to

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<v Speaker 1>power data centers. There's a very interesting finding. Like a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the interesting stuff, it's very deep in the report,

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<v Speaker 1>page seventy or eighty how do we power data centers?

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<v Speaker 1>Then what they find in Europe and China is that

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<v Speaker 1>we can on an eighty percent hourly matching basis power

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<v Speaker 1>data centers with hybridized renewables. So with solar wind batteries

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<v Speaker 1>brought together, this can be cheaper than the standard industry

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<v Speaker 1>retail price of electricity in Europe and China. So this

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<v Speaker 1>is the future. Battery prices are collapsing, renewables are getting

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<v Speaker 1>cheaper and cheaper. This is the way forward to really

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<v Speaker 1>really power a data center or any other type of

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<v Speaker 1>large industrial load or facility. Right. So this is what

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<v Speaker 1>we need to do, and we need the accounting structure

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<v Speaker 1>and framework to incentivize that type of behavior. Luckily that

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<v Speaker 1>is happening right and so the Greenhouse Gas Protocol we've

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<v Speaker 1>been in the technical working Group, I'm a member of

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<v Speaker 1>that for the last year or so. The direction of

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<v Speaker 1>travel is very clear. It's towards this granularity. As you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>the tools are there now, we're going towards hourly and

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<v Speaker 1>local matching. That's in the proposal. Public comment coming in October.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a really exciting time.

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<v Speaker 2>What should people who think like us? How can we

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<v Speaker 2>support the inclusion of twenty four to seven granular accounting

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<v Speaker 2>inside the scoop too? Sorry it looks like a bit complex,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's where we're right right now. The people who

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<v Speaker 2>are against are all oil lobbyists. They just paid for that.

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<v Speaker 2>I've seen that crowd for twenty five years. The people

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<v Speaker 2>who are against our oil lobbyist period killian. Where do

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<v Speaker 2>we go and comment in favor of the inclusion?

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<v Speaker 1>So there's going to be a public common period in October,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's as you say, it's essential that everyone that

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<v Speaker 1>they be a company, an academic and NGO listening to

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<v Speaker 1>this spread the word. It's super important that you reply

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<v Speaker 1>to that public comment. And thankfully, the Technical Working Group,

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<v Speaker 1>the governance of the Greenhouse Cast Protocol are fully behind

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<v Speaker 1>this proposed direction of travel towards hourly local accounting for

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<v Speaker 1>our large consumers. This is not for SMEs that we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about right here, there's going to be a transition

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<v Speaker 1>into this stuff. As you say, it's definitely not impossible.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the only way to do the accounting accurately, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So it's super important follow energy tag on LinkedIn, follow

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<v Speaker 1>me on LinkedIn, sign up to our newsletter on our website.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll be communicating about this really widely and making sure

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<v Speaker 1>that you guys know when to comment and what to

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<v Speaker 1>say in supporting these rules.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this is fantastic. Killian. Also in London with gone Wable,

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<v Speaker 2>we're having this big day the tenth in October, so

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<v Speaker 2>that in two weeks time where we go also deep

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<v Speaker 2>into power purchase agreement linked into twenty four to seven.

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<v Speaker 2>And people say it's complex, No it's not, No, it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>And as you said, having some green certificate coming out

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<v Speaker 2>of Iceland, whereas Iceland is not connected to any greedy

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<v Speaker 2>in your job, that is ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 1>One hundred percent. And you know, we hear this, Oh

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<v Speaker 1>it's not possible, but you know why then, right. The

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<v Speaker 1>people who understand the grid the most and the power

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<v Speaker 1>markets the most are the system operators in Europe. They're

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<v Speaker 1>put out a paper a couple of years ago calling

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<v Speaker 1>for the exact changes that are being proposed right now.

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<v Speaker 1>They wouldn't be calling for things that were infeasible that

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<v Speaker 1>were bad for the system. They're independent, they don't have

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<v Speaker 1>a skin in the game and in corporate carbon accounting,

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<v Speaker 1>and they're very clear and so eat very clear this

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<v Speaker 1>is the direction of travel. We need to have to

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<v Speaker 1>integrate renewables more cost effectively into our system. So there

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<v Speaker 1>you have it. Obviously, there's companies doing this. There's IA Research,

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<v Speaker 1>Princeton Research, MIT Research showing that this approach will deliver

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<v Speaker 1>more grid decarbonization, will incentivize the technologies we need to

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<v Speaker 1>deliver clean power and the clock. It's a pretty broad

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<v Speaker 1>coalition of people who are in favor of these changes,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's key. It's not just one group, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>broad perspective. This has also already been adopted in regulations

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<v Speaker 1>in Europe and the US as well for things like

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<v Speaker 1>green hydrogen accounting and subsidies. So this is not coming

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<v Speaker 1>out of the blue. It's just common sense, and we

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<v Speaker 1>need to stay rational and kind of respond to some

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<v Speaker 1>of the criticism in the way that it needs to

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<v Speaker 1>be responded to.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Sorry, sometimes I get a bit to fight up.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I think a little bit of a missed

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity not to focus more on this approach, because at

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<v Speaker 1>the end of the day, the price of renewables combined

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<v Speaker 1>with storage is dropping super fast, and the price of

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<v Speaker 1>gas well, god only knows it's going up in the US,

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<v Speaker 1>it's extremely volatile and unpredictable. In Europe's that's your basically

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<v Speaker 1>your alternative in terms of electricity sourcing in a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of parts of the world. So that's the bet to

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<v Speaker 1>take in the long run. The hedging benefit we did is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, as part of a study done by your

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<v Speaker 1>electric tex Parker th Fe years ago showing the massive

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<v Speaker 1>hedging benefit to hepas that are more around the clock,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe matching eighty ninety percent of your demand. It's shielding

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<v Speaker 1>you against those high electricity price years and times. This

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<v Speaker 1>is not only about being transparent and green, it's also

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<v Speaker 1>just about smart business sense going forward and realizing that

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<v Speaker 1>round the clock renewables are going to be the more

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<v Speaker 1>competitive option in the decades to come.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Killiana, you're such a good Irish guy. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>sure I'm going to bring a job back on the show.

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<v Speaker 1>That's you saying that, not mea It was.

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<v Speaker 2>Great to have you. This is the pod. Guys, we're

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<v Speaker 2>going forward and thank you for your work, and we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to get that scoop two nailed.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much, Laura, thank you for listening to Redefining Energy.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't forget to rate the show and subscribe on Apple, Podcast, Spotify,

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<v Speaker 1>or the platform of your choice.