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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Hello Sunday Podcast, the podcast for busy

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women who are ready to drink less and live more.

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I'm Casey Maguire Davidson, ex red wine girl turned life coach,

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helping women create lives they love without alcohol. But it

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wasn't that long ago that I was anxious, overwhelmed, and

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drinking a bottle of wine a night to unwind. I

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thought that wine was the glue holding my life together,

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helping me cope with my kids, my stressful job, and

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my busy life. I didn't realize that my love affair

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with drinking was making me more anxious and less able

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to manage my responsibilities. In this podcast, my goal is

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to teach you the tried and true secrets of creating

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and living a life you don't want to escape from.

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Each week, I'll bring you tools, lessons, and conversations to

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help you drink less and live more. I'll teach you

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how to navigate our drinking obsessed culture. I found a

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buzz how to sit with your emotions when you're lonely

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or angry, frustrated or overwhelmed, how to self sue without

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a drink, and how to turn the decision to stop

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drinking from your worst case scenario to the best decision

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of your life.

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Speaker 2: I am so glad you're here.

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Speaker 1: Now let's get started. Hi there, I am really excited

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for today's episode because the person I'm interviewing was actually

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a huge part of my story of quitting drinking in sobriety,

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long before she even quit drinking. Her name is Stephanie Wilder.

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She made a name for herself as a champion of

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a mom's right to booze. She wrote the now defunct

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column Make Mine a Double, Tales of Twins and Tequila,

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and books including Sippy Cups Are Not For Chardonnay and

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Naptime is the New Happy Hour. Today, Stephanie is sober.

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In her new book, Drunkish, Loving and Leaving Alcohol, Stephanie

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recounts the rise in the fall of her relationship with alcohol,

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from the liquor cabinet concoctions that got her started at fourteen,

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to her online fame as a wine loving mommy blogger,

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to the disastrous evening when she drove drunk with her

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kids in the car that marked the end of her drinking. Stephanie,

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thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Casey for having me, I'm really excited.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm excited too. And I mentioned to you just

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before we jumped on that, long before I think you

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even quit drinking. My son was born in two thousand

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and eight, and I was a little bit of a

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late mom. I didn't want to sort of give up

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my younger lifestyle. And when he was born, I found

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your book sippy cups are not for Charnay Now time

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is the new happy Hour, and I glommed onto those

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because I was fully in the my child will not

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define my life and I will still be fun. And

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sought out other moms who loved to drink at happy hour,

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and so I was fully bought into that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it's I think it's maybe

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not as common as the mommy wine culture would have

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you believe, but I think for people like us maybe

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who had that specific attitude or came into it a

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little later. I had ale a whole life, you know,

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I had my first daughter. I was in my late thirties,

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so I'd been a stand up comedian for years and

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years and years. I just had such a lifestyle of

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just doing whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted, and I

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was really one of those people who was on the

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fence about even having kids. You know, I knew, I

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knew I didn't not want to have a baby. Yeah,

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but it was really hard to wrap my mind around

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that big a change to my lifestyle. I thought I

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was pretty happy as is, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, but I definitely wanted to be a mom. Part

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of the reason, I think too, that I wanted to

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be a mom was not necessarily the right reason, but whatever.

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I absolutely I'm obsessed with my kids, so whatever got

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me there. But it was kind of like I didn't

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like the way I was parented, and I saw having

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my own child as a way to like a redo,

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you know, like I think I know how I would

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want to raise a kid. Of course, all that goes

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out the window when you have kids, and you're like,

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I'd have no idea what I'm doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I know what you mean. Because my husband

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and I had been together. We met when we were

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twenty two, and got married when we were twenty seven,

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and had our first kid at thirty too. And so

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my sister, you know, met she's a year and a

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half older than me, met her husband, got married and

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had kids pretty soon thereafter two her kids are a

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year apart, and my mother was very much like, when

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are you gonna have kids? And to the point where

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she was I mean I remember this vividly. She was like,

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you know, Casey, that you can drink red wine when

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you're breastfeeding because it helps the milk clet down. I mean,

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that's the old school thought pattern. But the fact that

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she said that to me as if she thought that

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was the barrier to me getting pregnant, in my mind,

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like looking back now, I was like, oh, wow, that's.

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Speaker 2: Kind of messed up.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's so interesting. Yeah, did you have I've

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found this to be true for me and quite a

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few women that I know that don't moms that I

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know that quit drinking. But when I was pregnant, it

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was very tricky because I did not really have the

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urge to drink that much. My I would not have

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said before I even got pregnant, I would not have

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said that I had a problem with alcohol. I thought

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I drink like everybody else. Yeah, and when I had

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to quit, but I did drink probably a lot. And

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you know, we'll get into it, but I mean I

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definitely there were of course, looking back a lot of

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signs that I had issues with alcohol, but I chose

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not to see those signs. And then when I got pregnant,

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I noticed that I didn't have a real problem not drinking.

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I think there was it's something about the hormones for

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some people, because I also I didn't. I did drink

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in my first pregnancy, But like my OB is back

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in the day that they were, like, my OB was

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very specific, like you can have two drinks a week, yeah, whatever, Yeah,

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you know it, but you have So I would go, Okay,

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I'm gonna have one glass of wine, you know, on

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a Tuesday, and then I'm going to have a glass

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of white on a Saturday. But some weeks I wouldn't

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even have any.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, with my.

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Speaker 3: Twins, I was sober at that time. But I also

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had no problem quitting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't have problems not drinking when I was pregnant.

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And we'll talk about this, but I think that's also

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part of the fact. Obviously, everywhere you look, it's like,

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you know, don't drinking when you're pregnant is dangerous, right,

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you go into the bathroom at a restaurant or bar,

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the sign is up there. And now looking back, I'm like, okay,

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so that's implying that drinking now called any other point,

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as long as you're not pregnant, is not bad for

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you at all. But also there is so much societal

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pressure to not drink when you're pregnant. Like if I

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was seven months pregnant and went out to a restaurant

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and ordered a glass of wine, people would look.

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Speaker 3: At me, you know, oh yeah, you had to do

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that at home, right.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't really drink until my third trimester, when

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I was sort of told like, oh, you can have

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half a glass of wine a week, and all my

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friends thought that too, But it was also like I

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sought out that information.

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, okay, cool. But when you're not drinking.

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Speaker 1: The the entire pressure is flipped to if you don't drink,

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people are like, why aren't you drinking?

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Speaker 3: People are very up in people's business about drinking or

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not drinking. As it turns out, yeah, and most other things, right,

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like how you parent, how much sleep you I mean,

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whatever you're doing, somebody has an opinion about it. I've

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had to learn to just have a very thick skin.

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Speaker 1: Well, especially when you have a baby, right, people will

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just come up unsolicited and give you parenting advice, or

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if you're pregnant, they will just come up and touch

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your belly and.

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Speaker 2: It's like, what the fuck? Yeah, you know no.

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Speaker 1: I finally decided, my husband and I decided that we

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would no longer judge anyone who had kids older than

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ours were. That was once we had a kid, because

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we were like, we used to be like, oh my god,

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I can't believe they're giving them an iPad in a restaurant,

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and then we our kids got you at that age,

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and we were like, have the damn iPad?

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know anything

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about parenting. I read no parenting books. I read pregnancy

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books when I was pregnant, because whatever wherever I am,

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that's what I want to know about. Like I'm not

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a person who's looking into the future, like what's that

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going to feel?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 3: So I did no pre planning when I was pregnant.

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I took a Did I take a breastfeeding class? I

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think I didn't. I think I thought, well, that'll that

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seems like a natural thing, like you just the baby

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sucks on your booth, Like how hard could it be?

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I don't need to take a class. That's ridiculous, you know.

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And I definitely didn't do anything regarding parenting until after

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I had a baby. And then every every moment is

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like an O ship moment, right, It's like, oh, now

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I have a baby. Now what what do they do?

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Speaker 2: What do you do with them?

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Speaker 3: How do you keep them busy?

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Speaker 2: I had a brillion questions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so two things. One I felt the same way,

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and I also like, was definitely not a stand up comedian,

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but was like thinking I was really funny at all times.

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So I was always being like, you know, like I

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went to the hospital even before. You know, they're those

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moms who don't want to have an epidural and God

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bless you, like Jesus Christ, I can't imagine. But like

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I would talk to my friends and I'd be like,

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I mean, I take recreational drugs. Why the hell wouldn't

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I take one? You know, but I'm like going through childbirth.

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So yeah, I thought I was very funny, but I

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particularly joked about and alcohol and stuff like that. Well,

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one thing I think is super interesting is you didn't

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read any parenting books, but then you wrote some, right,

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because even though sippy cups are not for Chardonnay, and

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naptime is the new happy hour. Weren't her se parenting books.

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They were commenting on what everybody was going through and

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like tongue in cheek giving advice kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: Well, the reason for that is because I started writing

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that book when my older daughter was only a few

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months old. So what happened is I was home with

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this baby. I was going crazy. I had a lot

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of anxiety, which I didn't I don't think I would

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have told you at the time it was anxiety. I

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think I just felt so uncomfortable that is this forever,

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like I'm home with a baby, she's you know, not

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sleeping a lot. This was in the first few months,

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day and night, trying to figure out what to do

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with her. My husband had was working, and I was

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very jealous that my husband got to continue having a job.

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And I was just feeling a drift, you know, I

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was like, what do I do. I'm not this person

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that enjoys just going to Target. Now I am, don't worry.

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I love going to Target. But at the time, I

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was like, I don't care about recipes or going to

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target or all the things that I feel like new

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moms are supposed to care about. So one night I

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was like, how do how can I connect with like

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my old life a little bit? And I'd heard of blogging.

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It was in the very early days, and I just decided, oh, well,

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maybe I can write something about this experience. And it

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was kind of a rant. I started this blog. It

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was so old school. It was blogspot dot com. It

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was very simple to like set up because you weren't

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like buying a domain or anything. It was literally a

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blog a service, right like anything.

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Speaker 2: I had one of those.

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Speaker 3: Too, okay, cool, so you get it. So one night

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I had a couple of glasses of wine and I

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just wrote this rant about how this was not for me,

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like I felt like I bought it. I was in

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a cult already, and you know, my daughter was young

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and I don't want to talk. I don't want to

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just go to Target. And it was because I'm a

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stand up. It was funny, you know, I wrote this

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funny thing. So then I was like, well, and now

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I need somebody to read it. I didn't know how

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to get actual readers, so I sent it to my

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friend at the time, Chelsea Handler, was a really good

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friend of mine and she book. But yeah, we knew

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each other from stand up. We were really good friends.

246
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She was. She was honestly like one of my closest friends.

247
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She threw my older daughter's my first baby's baby shower

248
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with my other friends. So I sent it to her.

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Oh and she and I had read each other's writing

250
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a lot, because well I'd read a lot of her writing.

251
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So she had a book that was not yet out yet.

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She just gotten a book deal, so she had an agent.

253
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And then I sent it to like my sister and

254
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a couple of my other friend and you know, so anyway,

255
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all of a sudden, I swear to God. The very

256
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next day, I got a call and it was an

257
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agent and it was Chelsea's agent, and he was away,

258
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I'm gonna get you a book deal. And I thought

259
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it was a crank phone call, so I almost hung

260
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up on him because Chelsea was known for being doing

261
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little pranks. And I was like, who is this who?

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And he was like, this is Chelsea's agent, and then

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he told me his name and then I was like, oh,

264
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and he's like, have you written anything else? Basically I

265
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had to just say I was like, yeah, of course

266
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I've written other things I had not This was my

267
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first try at writing anything about parenting. Anyway, he said,

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don't put anything else online, send it to me, and

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I'm going to get you a deal. So I never

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did a proposal, so I get this book deal. Like

271
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six weeks later, I had a book deal. So before

272
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my daughter was even six months old, I started. I

273
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had a deal to write a parenting book. Now I

274
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knew nothing about really about parenting, so all I could

275
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do was write about my experiences kind of as I

276
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was going through them. So I wrote funny chapter about

277
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going to mommy and me some of these things I

278
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would do just to write about them. Yeah, yeah, But

279
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then I had to kind of write the reason I

280
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was commenting on other aspects was because I hadn't gone

281
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through it. So, like my editor wanted me to write

282
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a chapter on potty training. I was like, I've got

283
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a six month old baby. I don't know what I'm

284
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going to say about potty training. So I just like

285
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would google potty training and then I would just try

286
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to write funny about all that stuff. But yeah, my

287
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mom made sure to point out to me that we

288
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don't have a good relationship, but she made sure to

289
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point out to me that it was ridiculous that I

290
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had a deal to write a parenting book when I

291
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barely had any experience having being a parent.

292
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Speaker 1: I well, my mother would say that too, and she

293
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,080
wouldn't totally be wrong, but I totally retonated with your

294
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books and love them to the point that my son

295
00:16:01,559 --> 00:16:05,799
was like twelve weeks old and we joined. Seattle has

296
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this like hepscroup. I think it's like parent early support program.

297
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And so what they did is they paired you with

298
00:16:13,919 --> 00:16:17,559
like six other couples who also had like six to

299
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,679
twelve week olds or whatever, and there was one leader

300
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,320
who maybe had a three year old, and you met.

301
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You met every week for like god knows how many weeks.

302
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And I went to the first one and it was

303
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,679
in the evening and the woman with the three year old,

304
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I mean, very nice, but I swear to god, she

305
00:16:37,399 --> 00:16:39,320
and I'm going to offence someone. She must have been

306
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,200
a woman who like put the sign on the door

307
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,480
that like, do not ring the doorbell because the baby's sleeping. Yeah.

308
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Speaker 2: I was just like, I'm never going to be that mom.

309
00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:49,519
I was so judgy.

310
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Speaker 1: And I went there and she literally served us goldfish

311
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and apple juice, and I was like, what the fuck

312
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,159
is this. It's seven pm. I'm with group of strangers.

313
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We have to sit here for an hour. And so

314
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,720
they put a piece of paper around like signing up

315
00:17:07,799 --> 00:17:08,799
for the next round.

316
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Speaker 2: And I am not a hoster.

317
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:15,119
Speaker 1: I signed up for the very first spot so that

318
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I could serve alcohols, so that I could show them

319
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:21,240
what this should be like for the next couple months

320
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,000
of my life. I was like, Oh, hell no, We're

321
00:17:23,039 --> 00:17:27,279
gonna like have a bar, and you know, it was crazy.

322
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So when I found your books, I was like, yes,

323
00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:33,519
you are my people. I'm gonna take notes from you,

324
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,519
and like I gave it as a baby shower present

325
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,440
to all of my friends, Like I was seriously attached

326
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to your right.

327
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Speaker 3: Well, the thing is, I you know, I still defend

328
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,039
I defend that book. It's not that it was the attitude.

329
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:55,039
It wasn't. I wasn't, you know, saying be drunk around

330
00:17:55,039 --> 00:17:57,920
your kids. It's just that it's what I thought was

331
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a funny, edgy attitude drinking.

332
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not that.

333
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Speaker 3: I was like, it's not and I'm sure the same

334
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,400
for you. It's not that I was really drinking so

335
00:18:09,559 --> 00:18:12,119
alcoholically at that time. It was just that it was

336
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,160
my sense of humor and it was a way to

337
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connect to my old life. And I think you probably

338
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:19,599
felt the same. It was a way to go like

339
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,359
just because I had a baby doesn't mean that I'm

340
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just a mom, Like I don't want to be called

341
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,440
Elbie's mom. Like at every playgroup I go to, like

342
00:18:28,519 --> 00:18:32,400
I'm still Stephanie, I'm still fun and funny, and like, yeah,

343
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I still have the same interests I had before I

344
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:37,200
had a baby. I didn't change, like I didn't have

345
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a lobotomy. That was kind of what the book was

346
00:18:39,799 --> 00:18:42,640
trying to say. I don't suddenly think it's a great

347
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idea to spend, you know, one thousand dollars on my

348
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kid's first birthday party. I was trying to say, like,

349
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let's all slow down and stop being ridiculous, Like our

350
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,400
whole being doesn't have to change. We don't have to

351
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just identify with mom shit. And that was what I

352
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was trying to say with that book, And I think

353
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that did resonate with a lot of people, and I

354
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:03,759
don't take it back.

355
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 1: No, Well, you know what I think is interesting is

356
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,119
I used to I mean, and for a lot of women,

357
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I think it's true, like drinking was part of my identity,

358
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but it was sort of a metaphor or shorthand for

359
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:21,599
like I'm fun or I'm more than a mom, or

360
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:23,759
you know, I used to describe myself.

361
00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:25,599
Speaker 2: I'd be like, Oh, I'm.

362
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,640
Speaker 1: Married, i have two kids, I work in marketing, I'm

363
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:30,759
a red wine girl.

364
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Speaker 2: I live in Seattle. Like it was.

365
00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,359
Speaker 1: It was part of who I was. And it also

366
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,000
when I stopped working because I was a director and

367
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a company. Like you said, my husband kept going to

368
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work and he would stop for like a latte on

369
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his way home, and I'd be so pissed because I'm like, what.

370
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,680
Speaker 2: The actual fuck, I've been.

371
00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:57,559
Speaker 1: Doing nothing but taking care of this screaming child for

372
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like twelve hours in your stock being for a latte,

373
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you know, like like somehow those ten minutes were really

374
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gonna like make or break me because I was so desperate.

375
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,640
Speaker 3: How about when you when you're sitting on the couch

376
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:14,160
with the baby and your husband gets up and goes

377
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,039
to take a shower, Oh my god, like, oh that

378
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:18,680
must must be nice.

379
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,319
Speaker 1: And you're trapped and you're like, I eat a class

380
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:25,160
of water, Like are you kidding me? Separately, like do

381
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,119
they spend more time in the toilet more than like

382
00:20:28,279 --> 00:20:31,519
ever before when they when you have a baby. And

383
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,799
also like I swear to God, when I had babies,

384
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,400
our lawn has never looked so good. Like the guy

385
00:20:37,559 --> 00:20:40,359
was out there with like the shoes, with the with

386
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,799
the little things underneath that so he could air rate

387
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,000
the fucking lod. I was like, you're air rating the lod,

388
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,039
Like this is ridiculous, but yeah, And I found that,

389
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:52,559
like I had.

390
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,759
Speaker 2: All these interests before I had my baby.

391
00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:59,279
Speaker 1: I could, like, you know, go to yoga and go kayaking,

392
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,240
and like go to pilates, and I went to therapy

393
00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:04,880
and I had guitar lethons. I mean I still trow

394
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,440
all these other things. And I had a baby and

395
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,519
I was just rushing home from work to get to

396
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,680
daycare pickup before it closed. And then you have the

397
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,720
baby food and the bath and the bed and so

398
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,480
like drinking, I could multitask, you know.

399
00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:24,039
Speaker 2: It was like the one fun thing that I could keep,

400
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,960
like you can play Legos with a glass of wine.

401
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 3: I agree with you. I agree with you. And I

402
00:21:31,759 --> 00:21:34,960
would say that it just wasn't a problem until it was.

403
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,240
And then for a lot of reasons, it was a

404
00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:41,200
problem for me, and then of course, and looking back,

405
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,599
you know, it was it. Alcohol was something that I

406
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,119
turned to for self medicating reasons and for relief and

407
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,680
for fun and for all those things. But it does

408
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:56,720
get exacerbated when you are home with your kid and

409
00:21:56,799 --> 00:22:01,440
you don't have any other outlets. I can see. I

410
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,599
wonder if I ever would have drank really alcoholically if

411
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,279
it wasn't for having a baby. I mean, I probably

412
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,880
would have, because if I look back at how I drank,

413
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,519
and of course I'm not blaming having a kid, but

414
00:22:14,559 --> 00:22:17,640
I'm blaming I'm not blaming anything. But I'm saying I

415
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:22,920
wonder if the way my habit became dangerous only came

416
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,400
to the surface, you know, once I was a parent.

417
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, so tell us your story. Tell us how

418
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,480
you went from writing nap Time is a New Happy

419
00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:37,599
Hour two then, which I cannot believe you did being

420
00:22:37,799 --> 00:22:43,279
so brave, to writing on your blog that you quit drinking,

421
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,480
like the Monday after the Friday you stopped.

422
00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:49,839
Speaker 3: Is that right in terms of yeah, it was a

423
00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:54,920
few days after. Well, what happened is I had been

424
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:57,240
keeping up with my blog even though I now had

425
00:22:57,319 --> 00:22:59,799
books coming out so I was writing and once I

426
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,640
had twins, but I didn't have my blog wasn't super successful.

427
00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:07,759
You know, some people think that I got this book

428
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:09,920
deal off of having a blog. I didn't. I got

429
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,000
the book deal because Chelsea Handler got me a book

430
00:23:12,039 --> 00:23:16,559
deal basically. So I kept writing on the blog and

431
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,640
people were reading it, and it was more for like

432
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,559
a sense of community. It was more because you know,

433
00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:24,160
it was that immediacy. I wasn't going out and doing

434
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,759
stand up, so blogging was a way that I could

435
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:29,920
express myself and then get immediate comments. And I was

436
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,759
one of those I lived for that kind of validation

437
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,440
for people to go like, oh, I'm going through the

438
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,720
same thing. And you know, at this point when I

439
00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:42,440
started getting a few more readers when I had twins,

440
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,960
because you know, I was going crazy and then my

441
00:23:47,079 --> 00:23:50,440
twin pregnancy was having some problems, so people were really

442
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,480
following along. So once when my twins were you know,

443
00:23:55,319 --> 00:23:58,200
newborns because I quit drinking, they were eighteen months. So

444
00:23:58,519 --> 00:24:01,839
suffice it to say that I was very in touch

445
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,160
with my readers. I was blogging quite a bit. Well

446
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:08,440
I don't know if I want to say even secretly,

447
00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:12,440
but I was definitely. I had tried to quit drinking

448
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,200
when my older daughter was two and a half. I

449
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,640
did quit drinking, and then I got pregnant with twins,

450
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,240
and I didn't get really any kind of proper help.

451
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,920
I just was like, I had a bad night and

452
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,000
I was like, I'm just not going to drink again.

453
00:24:27,079 --> 00:24:28,839
I'm not going to do that. I don't want to

454
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:29,839
when she.

455
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 2: Was two and a half years old. Was that right?

456
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 3: When she was two and a half years old, I

457
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,160
I went trick or treating and I got drunk trick

458
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,400
or treating. It's in the book. And it was funny

459
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,559
because I was like, do I talk about that part

460
00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:45,880
in the book because it's not when I actually really

461
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:51,400
quit drinking. But I really was committed to quitting drinking.

462
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:57,079
I got drunk with like some neighborhood friends and nobody

463
00:24:57,079 --> 00:24:59,079
else did. And it was one of those things where

464
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,359
like I couldn't remember what happened the next day, and

465
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,880
I was like, this is awful, and this is not

466
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,119
the parent I want to be. I do not want

467
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,559
to have blackouts hanging out with my kid, you know,

468
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,799
and embarrass myself in front of like other moms. And

469
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,440
the whole thing was felt humiliating. We were on foot,

470
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,359
just trick or treating in the neighborhood. But I I

471
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,240
went to a couple of like recovery meetings. I was

472
00:25:24,599 --> 00:25:26,960
kind of serious, but not that serious. If you know

473
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,079
anything about like, I didn't. I didn't do anything really

474
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,960
about it except for kind of set my intention that

475
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,440
I don't want to drink anymore. And then I got

476
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,920
pregnant with twins, and then I had twin and then

477
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,039
I didn't drink through that pregnancy. So when I had

478
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,519
my twins, I was like, oh, well, I didn't drink

479
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,920
for that whole pregnancy, which was they came a little early,

480
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,880
like one month early. So let's just say that was

481
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,640
like eight months plus another like month or two before that.

482
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:58,279
So like now I'm like, it's been almost a year

483
00:25:58,319 --> 00:26:01,319
and I didn't drink, so obviously I'm fine and I'm

484
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,079
not an alcoholic, and thank god, because now I really

485
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,240
need to drink because I got three I got babies

486
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:13,920
and a toddler. Basically, so I'm blogging and I'm drinking.

487
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,519
And if you know anything about alcoholism, which I think

488
00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:21,880
you do, it's progressive. When I started drinking again, I

489
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,400
was off to the races. I was like, I went

490
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,480
from I'm just going to have like a beer to

491
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,200
I'm just going to have like two drinks. I'm just

492
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,480
going to have a couple drinks a night, and then

493
00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:36,160
I started them trying to moderate. And then for those

494
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,400
I would say eight solid eighteen months, it was me

495
00:26:39,519 --> 00:26:41,799
trying to manage and control my drinking. It was like,

496
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:46,000
I don't want to have to quit drinking, but gosh,

497
00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:49,559
I'm really starting to feel dependent, and I was starting

498
00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:51,559
to feel like I couldn't take a night off. I

499
00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:55,119
was starting to realize that by five o'clock, I'm really

500
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,319
rationalizing that I'm making a lot of promises I don't

501
00:26:58,319 --> 00:27:00,279
want to I'm not going to drink anymore, and I'm

502
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:03,640
doing it. And then I'm trying to drink only only

503
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,279
every other day, only on weekends, only on weekdays. I

504
00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:09,359
was doing all those games in my head, and I

505
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,559
was fighting it and fighting it and fighting it. So

506
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,480
when you know what happened was I had reached a

507
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:21,519
point where I was like, you know what, trying to

508
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:25,480
control my drinking is so aggravating and it's so hard,

509
00:27:25,799 --> 00:27:30,480
and it's a losing battle. So rather than try this

510
00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:33,759
hard to control it. I'm just going to accept that

511
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,279
I'm a person who enjoys a cocktail.

512
00:27:36,519 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

513
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 1: I have seen that with like so many of my

514
00:27:39,799 --> 00:27:43,799
clients but myself too, where they're like, I'm tired of

515
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,319
thinking about drinking and maybe trying to control it is

516
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,799
the problem. So therefore I'm just going to stop trying,

517
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,519
and therefore i won't think about it and be so

518
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,039
obsessed with it, and therefore it'll be fine.

519
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 2: Like the rationalizations.

520
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought of it like dieting, where you're like, well,

521
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,359
if you're on a diet, then you're thinking about food

522
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,680
all the time and feeling deprived. So maybe the idea

523
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,119
is just to like let myself eat as much as

524
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,279
I want and you know, and then I won't whatever

525
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,920
that was. Yeah, I was like, I'm just gonna accept

526
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,240
the fact that, like, you know what, I'm just a

527
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,799
fun person who likes the cocktail, and I like that

528
00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:26,880
cocktail like every night, and I'm just gonna have a

529
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,680
couple of drinks every night. But I'm just never going

530
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,440
to do anything dangerous. I'm going to drink in the house,

531
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,279
and you know, so I had this real strong line

532
00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:38,680
in the stand if I'm going to be somebody who

533
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:40,680
drinks every night. I'm by gode, I'm going to stay

534
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,079
home every night. Yeah, until I didn't stay home and

535
00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:48,559
I went out somewhere with my with two of my kids,

536
00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:52,960
and I was at like everybody was drinking. I'm not

537
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,880
trying to like judge other people right now at this point,

538
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,279
because maybe other people can and I and many people

539
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:04,319
do have a drink when they're out somewhere and are

540
00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:07,440
able to drive home. I just never had the off switch,

541
00:29:07,519 --> 00:29:10,960
so I never knew I was drunk. So that's very dangerous.

542
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,079
So when I'm out somewhere and somebody's like, have a drink,

543
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,279
and then I have that drink, and I'm feeling relaxed

544
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:19,160
and fun, and this is a good time, and I

545
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,480
deserve to have a good time because like, parenting is hard,

546
00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:24,839
and I'm out with two of my kids and I've

547
00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:27,079
got an eighteen month in tow and a three year

548
00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:30,440
old a four year old, and we were having fun.

549
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,279
And then I had another drink, and then I had

550
00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:35,920
another drink, and then I still thought I was fine,

551
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,079
just having fun, just relaxed, and then I drove home

552
00:29:39,359 --> 00:29:42,880
and then my husband was like, you're drunk. And then

553
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,519
I was mad at him for how dare you?

554
00:29:45,839 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: Like?

555
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 3: I was just out, I had a couple of drinks.

556
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:51,680
My God, like, nothing to see here, leave me alone.

557
00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:55,160
But when I woke up the next day with a

558
00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:01,759
brutal hangover and realized, oh my god, like I just

559
00:30:01,839 --> 00:30:04,640
had such a moment of clarity of like, this is

560
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,880
what's happened. This is I could just kind of see

561
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,039
it all. I could see the progression. I could see

562
00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:12,759
all the rationalization I was doing. And I was like,

563
00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:16,359
I'm going to rationalize my way into driving drunk again

564
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,440
and having a car accident or god forbid, you know,

565
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,519
killing somebody whatever. I was like, this is really dangerous.

566
00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:29,839
So having made that decision that I knew was for

567
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,839
good in my mind, you know, And then of course

568
00:30:32,839 --> 00:30:34,680
I had to do a lot of work to make

569
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,160
sure that that decision was for good. But in my mind,

570
00:30:37,599 --> 00:30:42,680
I was like, I have to change and I can

571
00:30:42,759 --> 00:30:46,559
no longer be the person that was like drinking's fun

572
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,839
Like for me, I'm not going to say what other

573
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,839
people should do, but I had to be honest. If

574
00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:56,960
I wasn't going to be honest with myself, then all

575
00:30:57,079 --> 00:30:59,079
was going to be lost. I just knew I would go,

576
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,359
I would revert. So I felt very strongly that if

577
00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:05,960
I'm going to continue to blog, and I was known

578
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,599
for being really honest about how hard it was, how

579
00:31:08,599 --> 00:31:11,480
hard parenting was, and how you know, the struggles that

580
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:15,640
I had, So I thought, there there's no way that

581
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,359
I can just write it's a lie. That's how I felt.

582
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,759
I felt like I was going to be lying by

583
00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:26,200
omission to not admit that I'd made this decision. Now.

584
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:28,400
Was I ready to like tell the world that I

585
00:31:28,519 --> 00:31:31,960
driven drunk? No, I was not, because that was that

586
00:31:32,119 --> 00:31:34,559
was a bridge too far at that point. I mean,

587
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,480
it had been a few days. But I felt I

588
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,960
owed it to my readers, many of whom I felt

589
00:31:42,519 --> 00:31:46,240
also relied on alcohol and also thought drinking what I had.

590
00:31:46,319 --> 00:31:48,160
I felt like I owed it to them to say,

591
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,119
like I can't that I'm not going to drink anymore.

592
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that incredible. And I have to

593
00:31:57,079 --> 00:32:01,440
say that it made a huge impression on me, even

594
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,559
though it took me, I don't know, three and a

595
00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:08,400
half years later till I stopped for the first time,

596
00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:12,880
and even four years after that till I stopped eight

597
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:18,480
years ago. So I obviously had read all your books.

598
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,519
Speaker 2: I had loved them, I had gifted them.

599
00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: I was like bought in And it was not your

600
00:32:24,359 --> 00:32:26,680
fault that I drank like that, Like I was on

601
00:32:26,759 --> 00:32:31,920
board way before. I just was like, oh, yes, this

602
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,920
like she gets me, this is awesome, and also like

603
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:37,880
I'm not the only one, like.

604
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,319
Speaker 3: This is for real and get you.

605
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know right, I think there are a lot

606
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:49,599
of women listening to this who are like yep. But then, okay,

607
00:32:49,599 --> 00:32:53,480
my son was six months old and I somehow found

608
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,519
the book Drinking a Love Story by Carolyn Knapp.

609
00:32:57,119 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 3: I just wrote, I just wrote this thing where I

610
00:33:00,319 --> 00:33:02,640
mentioned that as like one of my favorite books about it.

611
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, and to the point where I was

612
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,720
so I desperately didn't want my husband to know how

613
00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:11,799
worried I was about my drinking, because first I didn't

614
00:33:11,839 --> 00:33:16,000
want to stop, and second I didn't want him watching me. Right,

615
00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:18,880
he knew I drank a ton, but I was just like,

616
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:21,119
I don't want him to be my parent. And every

617
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,160
time I open up a second bottle of wine on

618
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,680
a Tuesday, like what the fuck?

619
00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 2: And so.

620
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: I would read it on my kindle and then every

621
00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:33,440
time I finished reading it, I would open like five

622
00:33:33,559 --> 00:33:35,960
more books so it would be pushed down in my

623
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:40,160
queue in case he like randomly picked up my kindle,

624
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:44,759
which like is so paranoid and never would happen. And

625
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,279
from the first chapter, the first paragraph, she was talking,

626
00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:52,319
I mean there's a woman with a red wine glass

627
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:52,799
on the cover.

628
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 2: I was a red wine girl, and.

629
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: Like it was like I fell in love and because

630
00:33:59,119 --> 00:34:01,119
you know this thing was going to bring me down,

631
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,640
I had to stop. And so it was everything in

632
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,000
there was so close to home for me. I like

633
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:10,800
got out a word doc and like went to the

634
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,280
office my son six months old and typed up this thing,

635
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,239
titled it Someone something Else so no one could find it.

636
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,239
I mean, I was ridiculous and was like, I think

637
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,000
I have a problem with alcohol.

638
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 2: This is bad. I need to stop.

639
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,519
Speaker 1: And then literally two days later I came back to

640
00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:32,280
the word dock and over the top was like just kidding,

641
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,000
nothing to see.

642
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 2: Year like it was so messed up.

643
00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:42,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I relate. I mean there were many many times

644
00:34:42,559 --> 00:34:47,400
that I remember writing in a journal like from years before,

645
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,280
just like oh my gosh, I'm so drunk. I wonder

646
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:54,159
if I need to stop drinking. Like lots of little clues.

647
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then in that same office, I think a

648
00:34:58,119 --> 00:35:00,639
year later, so it was our in the back of

649
00:35:00,679 --> 00:35:03,639
my head, like this is not good, even though I

650
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,239
was giving away naptime is the new happy hour and

651
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,599
fully rationalizing this and drinking with all my friends with

652
00:35:11,639 --> 00:35:15,119
their kids. And then I saw the article. I went down,

653
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,119
got my cup of coffee in the coffee shop under

654
00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:20,840
my office and saw in the New York Times the

655
00:35:21,039 --> 00:35:27,559
story about you, and it was like heroine cocktail mom, cocktail,

656
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,800
I should know that the title do you.

657
00:35:31,119 --> 00:35:34,880
Speaker 3: Forgot heroin of cocktail Mom's sobers up or something like that?

658
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and yep, that's exactly it. And I bought

659
00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:45,199
the paper and was like, holy shit, because I knew you,

660
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,679
I knew your books. I was like, what wrote like honestly,

661
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,880
that's what I thought, Like hope, Right, And then I

662
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,400
went up to my office and I found the article

663
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,880
online and I freaking pos like copied and pasted it

664
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,320
into my word dot and.

665
00:36:02,039 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 2: Then I drank for another four years.

666
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:07,559
Speaker 3: Right, what happened? What was your bottom?

667
00:36:08,039 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 2: Okay?

668
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: The first time I had two times. The first time

669
00:36:12,639 --> 00:36:16,199
I was really worried about. I was angry and I

670
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,960
was upset, and I was like felt resentful, even though

671
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,519
I had this really good life and this adorable son,

672
00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:24,960
and I just felt overwhelmed, and I was mad at

673
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,400
my husband. I felt like he was like, you know,

674
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,960
would rather spend time with other people than me and

675
00:36:32,039 --> 00:36:34,039
go out with other friends, which, of course, like I

676
00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:36,199
was like passed out on the couch every night. I'm like,

677
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,760
what the hell, why does me want's.

678
00:36:37,599 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: Been time with me?

679
00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: And I got in a fight with my husband, which

680
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,119
I don't remember what it was about, and we were

681
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:49,719
not fight fighters, And I somehow went to sleep with

682
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,800
my five year old because I didn't want to sleep

683
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,679
in the bed with my husband, and passed out. And

684
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:00,039
I woke up this is a week day, and my

685
00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:04,760
husband was standing over me and looked so sad and

686
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,320
brought me a cup of coffee and was like, I

687
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,679
don't understand what's happening with us. I told you that

688
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,039
I wouldn't do whatever it was he was doing the

689
00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:19,039
night before. And I didn't even remember what the fight

690
00:37:19,159 --> 00:37:21,639
was about, Like whatever he told me he was going

691
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,599
to stop doing, I had no recollection, and I was

692
00:37:24,679 --> 00:37:29,000
just like, oh shit. So I got a therapist.

693
00:37:29,119 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 2: I looked it up.

694
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: I very specifically chose one that specialized in addiction and anxiety,

695
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,400
and then I went in there and was like, oh

696
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,679
my god, my husband, my job, my kid, my boss.

697
00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:45,880
I need help with my anxiety and overwhelm. And by

698
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:47,400
the way, I drank a bottle of wine at night

699
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,920
and he immediately was like, let's talk about your drinking,

700
00:37:51,159 --> 00:37:53,480
and I was like, no, let's.

701
00:37:53,159 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 2: Talk about my boss. But he was sober.

702
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,079
Speaker 1: He had been in a twelve step program, and so

703
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,920
he encouraged me to go to one. And then I

704
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,280
freaking found the BFB. Like I was following your blog,

705
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,960
which is the Booze Free Brigade, which is a group

706
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,719
you started, right, I read Don't Get Drunk Friday. Yeah,

707
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:17,639
tell me about this?

708
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,519
Speaker 3: Oh just that. So I was still I was blogging

709
00:38:21,559 --> 00:38:24,440
now all the time about not drinking now, and my

710
00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:28,480
husband was like, you gotta be careful, Like all you

711
00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:31,400
talk about now is being is sobriety, like it might

712
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,280
get on people's nerves. Well, I don't know if he

713
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,199
said it like that, but he was like, you know

714
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,559
you're gonna you're like rebranding yourself as like the sober person,

715
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,360
which I was like, you know what, maybe you're right.

716
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,920
So I decided I'm gonna make I'm just gonna on Fridays.

717
00:38:45,159 --> 00:38:49,480
Every Friday, I'll talk about alcoholism or my drinking or

718
00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:50,079
not drinking.

719
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 2: And then I.

720
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 3: Started getting friends to be guest bloggers on my site

721
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,159
and tell their story and I called it Don't Get

722
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,360
Drunk Friday. One of those friends, my friend Jane, and

723
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,800
I were like, all these people are trying to talk

724
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,119
to each other in the comments of the Don't Get

725
00:39:06,199 --> 00:39:10,079
Drunk Friday blog. So this was like early days of

726
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,400
kind of message boards and stuff, and we were like,

727
00:39:13,039 --> 00:39:17,239
we should start a message board, a Yahoo message board

728
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,199
where people can go join it and then talk to

729
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:20,639
each other.

730
00:39:21,039 --> 00:39:24,119
Speaker 1: I started when the Yahoo message board was going.

731
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we did. We started that together and we

732
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,559
both and we both were like letting people in or whatever.

733
00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:33,239
And that went on for a few years and people

734
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,599
found each other, and then somebody started it on Facebook.

735
00:39:36,639 --> 00:39:40,159
Somebody made a Facebook group of that group and everybody

736
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:45,760
you know, cause Facebook started like around I mean I

737
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,239
joined in nine, so it was still early days. But anyway,

738
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,639
somebody made it a Facebook group and it still exists.

739
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,000
I think there's a I'm in it.

740
00:39:54,199 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 2: I am still in it.

741
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: I told them that I was interviewing you, and I

742
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,519
cut and pasted something I found in the t Toronto's

743
00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:05,719
Star about how the group, I mean it is thriving still,

744
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:10,079
and I cut and pasted about like the origins of

745
00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:14,880
the BF or like that you had started it, and all.

746
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 2: These people were like, oh my god, I had no idea.

747
00:40:19,119 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean because it was so many years ago. Yes,

748
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,840
I think we started. That group started like in my

749
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,400
first year of I mean, hadn't been sober that long.

750
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: It's amazing. It is still like one of my favorite

751
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,960
places on the internet. The people there are so kind.

752
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,760
I think there's like two five hundred people in there

753
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,960
right now, and wow, thank you. You shouldn't pop in.

754
00:40:45,039 --> 00:40:47,159
I'm gonna share this episode there.

755
00:40:47,679 --> 00:40:50,679
Speaker 3: I will. So you okay, so you join that group

756
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,960
or you go on the Yahoo group. Yeah, but this

757
00:40:53,039 --> 00:40:55,519
is only your first try, it sobriety right.

758
00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:57,039
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, So I went on.

759
00:40:57,559 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: I was in the Yahoo group, and then pretty soon

760
00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:03,519
or after it became the Facebook group, which was helpful

761
00:41:03,519 --> 00:41:05,519
because it was so hard to follow the Yahoo group.

762
00:41:05,679 --> 00:41:08,320
It was just there's so many posts and email. I

763
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,480
got them all on email. So I joined Facebook and

764
00:41:11,559 --> 00:41:17,519
I remember sitting in my office and being so terrified

765
00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:19,840
it was going to somehow show up on my public

766
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,800
page right with my bosses and my mother and my coworkers.

767
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,079
And I put a picture of me and my five

768
00:41:26,159 --> 00:41:30,119
year old son. He was this little redhead on there,

769
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,639
and I just was like, I'm.

770
00:41:33,559 --> 00:41:36,639
Speaker 2: Ex years old, I have a five year old.

771
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:42,320
Speaker 1: I live here, I work here, and I'm terrified that

772
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,400
I drink too much. I drink a bottle of wine

773
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,960
a night. I'm like hungover every day. I keep trying

774
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,760
to moderate. I don't want to stop drinking, and like

775
00:41:53,519 --> 00:41:57,119
posted it. Freaked out, like went to my public page

776
00:41:57,119 --> 00:41:59,679
and like we're fresh seventeen times to make sure it

777
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,920
wasn't there, and then had to go to a meetie

778
00:42:03,599 --> 00:42:06,760
and I came back and there were like twenty eight

779
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,920
comments from people who were like, I'm just like you,

780
00:42:10,159 --> 00:42:12,639
It's gonna be okay. I was a white wine girl,

781
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:16,440
like I know how you feel. Your son is beautiful,

782
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,800
and I like started crying.

783
00:42:19,199 --> 00:42:21,559
Speaker 2: I was just oh my god, you know.

784
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, And then what happened.

785
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: And then I went to my therapist and he encouraged

786
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,079
me to go to a twelve step program. And I

787
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:35,119
really didn't want to, but I was sort of like

788
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,199
a bucket list. Never thought I'd do this, you know,

789
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,480
trying to make a joke of it all. And I

790
00:42:41,519 --> 00:42:44,400
found a woman on the BFB who lived in Seattle

791
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,920
and was lawyer and was my age and she was

792
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:51,079
four months sober and was like, I'll take you. And

793
00:42:51,159 --> 00:42:54,199
so I went to my first twelve step meeting and

794
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,639
it was a little weird, like there was an older

795
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,559
I mean it was nice, but there was like an

796
00:42:58,599 --> 00:43:02,639
older woman with like little guns on her glasses, like

797
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,239
who kept getting up and walking around. I was like, uh,

798
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,440
and you know, they gave me a book at like

799
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,519
I of course cried because like what was happening in

800
00:43:13,559 --> 00:43:16,079
my life? And I was glad I had my friend there.

801
00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:21,519
But like, so I went for about four months. I

802
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:24,599
went to mostly women's big book study meetings, which I

803
00:43:24,679 --> 00:43:27,360
wonder if that was a bad idea because I am

804
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:31,559
not religious and the God stuff, like there's a lot

805
00:43:31,559 --> 00:43:33,280
of God in the first twelve steps.

806
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 2: And I got a.

807
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: Sponsor and she told me to get on my knees

808
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,960
and prayed that my obsession was lifted every day. And

809
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,159
I'm like, oh, holy shit, no, you.

810
00:43:43,119 --> 00:43:47,199
Speaker 3: Know, I'm sober fourteen years, very involved in my twelve

811
00:43:47,199 --> 00:43:50,440
step groups. I'm still not into the God stuff.

812
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And I know everybody's like it's spiritual.

813
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,159
Speaker 2: I'm like, really, it's written like God.

814
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,119
Speaker 3: You know who was religious that when they when they

815
00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:02,679
started it, and now they've of course loose they try

816
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,239
to loosen it up so that it's more inclusive, but

817
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,119
I know tons of like atheists.

818
00:44:08,639 --> 00:44:10,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I don't like you.

819
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 3: One thing I love about twelve stuff is like there

820
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,280
really are no rules. There's people that want to pretend

821
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,480
there's rules and like want to tell you what to do,

822
00:44:18,559 --> 00:44:22,639
but there's there's no like, no one's you don't check in,

823
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,280
like unless you're court ordered, you don't. You know what

824
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,519
I mean. It's like it's kind of whatever you want

825
00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:29,880
to make of it. I look I look at it

826
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,639
as support, yes, and maybe accountability.

827
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: And I was glad. I was glad it was there.

828
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,519
So I have to say, this was almost eleven years ago,

829
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:44,639
and there really was, as far as I could tell,

830
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,800
not a lot else out there, like or at least

831
00:44:48,159 --> 00:44:49,800
not a lot of I mean, I had the BFB

832
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:53,639
and then I didn't know of much else.

833
00:44:54,519 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 2: And so.

834
00:44:56,679 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: Now the second time I quit drinking eight years ago,

835
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:04,760
go like the world had somewhat exploded by that time,

836
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,519
like more people had written blogs and books. There were

837
00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:12,000
sober coaches. I did, Hollywood, so can I.

838
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,559
Speaker 3: I don't want to interrupt you, but I need to

839
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:18,280
interview you. But fuck you already did. But when you

840
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,360
made the decision to go back to it, so that

841
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,239
was like you had another three years.

842
00:45:24,639 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: So okay, here's what happened. It's so much like your story.

843
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,679
So I did it for four months. Then I got

844
00:45:31,679 --> 00:45:34,519
a full time job again and it was a big commute,

845
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,199
and I was like, oh, I don't need this anymore

846
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,840
because I'm sober. And my boss, who I'd known for

847
00:45:41,039 --> 00:45:43,280
years and had worked with, was in AA and she

848
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,199
had been sober for like fifteen years at my new job,

849
00:45:47,519 --> 00:45:49,239
and so I was like, oh, I got this. I

850
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,800
got accountability. You know, my boss is sober, she knows

851
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,360
I'm sober. I'd talk to her about it. And so,

852
00:45:56,519 --> 00:46:00,000
and then I got pregnant and I didn't drink four

853
00:46:00,119 --> 00:46:02,440
a year. I mean, it's so similar. I didn't drink

854
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,000
for a year because I was pregnant, and I got

855
00:46:05,039 --> 00:46:06,960
to the end of it. And by the way, the

856
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,400
whole time I was trying to do this like slow

857
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,760
shuffle back from like maybe I overreacted, you know, like

858
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,480
I don't really have a problem. It was so then

859
00:46:16,519 --> 00:46:20,440
I felt latable, yeah, oh my god, right, and I

860
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,760
mean when you're talking, I was like, oh shit, this

861
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,480
is me. And so I got to the end of

862
00:46:25,519 --> 00:46:28,159
the year, and of course I was like, my marriage

863
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:32,039
is better, my anxiety is better, my life's better. I'm happier,

864
00:46:32,159 --> 00:46:36,119
I'm less stressed at work. In no way associating all

865
00:46:36,159 --> 00:46:38,440
of that with the fact I was no longer drinking.

866
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,599
I was like, course, imagine it was situational right that

867
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,800
I was drinking too much, and now I'm better. And

868
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,920
so like two weeks after I had my daughter, I

869
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,280
was like, went out to drink, you know, dinner with

870
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:56,800
my husband. I was like, I'll just have a drink

871
00:46:57,079 --> 00:46:58,000
on a date night.

872
00:46:58,480 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 2: I had one.

873
00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: I immediately, so I had another. But then I was like, whoa,

874
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,360
that's it. And then like maybe two weeks later, I

875
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,480
was like, oh, it's a Friday night, why don't you

876
00:47:08,519 --> 00:47:10,280
pick up a bottle of wine to come home.

877
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,039
Speaker 2: Within a month, I was back to.

878
00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: A bottle of wine or a couple glasses every night,

879
00:47:16,639 --> 00:47:19,119
and very quickly I went back to a bottle of

880
00:47:19,119 --> 00:47:22,360
wine a night or more. The whole time, I knew

881
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,480
it was a trouble like thought. I was still on

882
00:47:24,519 --> 00:47:28,079
the BFP, but I didn't post because I was so embarrassed.

883
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,119
I would go to the grocery store, and because I'd

884
00:47:31,159 --> 00:47:35,239
been to local aas, I'd buy my like six pack

885
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,800
of wine because you get the ten percent discounts, so

886
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,440
it's like just makes sense, you know, I'm putting.

887
00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 2: It in quotes and being sarcastic since Noah could see.

888
00:47:44,039 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 3: You're being smart, right.

889
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,519
Speaker 1: And then I would go in the lie and I

890
00:47:47,559 --> 00:47:50,880
would literally lie the bottles of wide at the bottom

891
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,760
of my cart, put my fucking bags over it, and

892
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,719
then check behind me who was getting in line in

893
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,320
case someone from AA.

894
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 2: I mean it was it was ridiculous.

895
00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:06,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I drank till my daughter was twenty two

896
00:48:06,039 --> 00:48:10,000
months old, and I finally stopped again. But the reason

897
00:48:10,039 --> 00:48:12,320
I stopped the second time was like death of a

898
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,920
thousand cuts, Like my anxiety was off the charts. I

899
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,519
tried to moderate and I couldn't. I woke up with

900
00:48:18,599 --> 00:48:22,920
horrible hangovers. I was passing out on the couch and

901
00:48:23,159 --> 00:48:25,960
like once you stopped drinking for a while the whole

902
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,199
time I was like I knew. I was like, my

903
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:33,519
drinking's unsustainable. This is not situational, it's the fucking alcohol

904
00:48:34,039 --> 00:48:35,199
and I'm going to.

905
00:48:35,239 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 2: Have to stop. It was just a question of when you.

906
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,760
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, yeah, so what did you do? Did you

907
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:42,639
go back to a meeting?

908
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:46,760
Speaker 1: I hired a sober coach? I did I found which

909
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,000
I'm a sober coach now. I found this woman Bell.

910
00:48:50,519 --> 00:48:53,760
She had this blog called Tired of Thinking About Drinking.

911
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,880
She lived in Paris, and she had a hundred day challenge.

912
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,840
So the idea was don't drink for one hundred days

913
00:49:00,039 --> 00:49:02,599
and if you sign up with her in her program,

914
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,920
you got a sober pen pal for a year. And

915
00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:09,079
I freaking was a gold star girl. I wrote her

916
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,960
five times a week for like two years straight and

917
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,639
I was in the BFB. I posted again on day five.

918
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,199
I was so embarrassed because they knew I had a year,

919
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,760
and was like all raw rah, And then I like

920
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:28,159
went radio silent for two years and I was like, ooh,

921
00:49:28,199 --> 00:49:31,519
I'm on day five, and like of course they welcomed

922
00:49:31,599 --> 00:49:34,599
me back with like so much love, and I posted

923
00:49:34,639 --> 00:49:39,239
their freaking daily for like they had this thirty sixty

924
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:43,519
ninety day challenge. I was there day forty you know,

925
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:45,639
day four hundred and forty two.

926
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:46,679
Speaker 2: I was like.

927
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,519
Speaker 1: Ridiculous, But that's how I stopped, and I just kept going.

928
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,719
Speaker 3: Yeah. When I when I first got sober, like for real,

929
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:00,440
for real, for real, fourteen years ago, I yeah, every

930
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,840
day I counted days. I mean, I was so sad

931
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,239
when I almost hit a year because I was like, well, now,

932
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,719
what what happens when it it's a year? Then I

933
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,559
don't then I don't get all the collapse and and

934
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:17,039
like you know, accolades for another whole year. Like because

935
00:50:17,079 --> 00:50:19,360
at the beginning, when you're in a twelve step program,

936
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,599
you're like thirty days. When your first thirty days, you're

937
00:50:23,599 --> 00:50:27,480
a newcomer, so you can constantly raise your hand and

938
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:30,039
say you're new, and people are like, you know, you're

939
00:50:30,079 --> 00:50:32,199
just noticeable. And people come over to you and they

940
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,599
offer your phone their phone number, and they you know,

941
00:50:34,639 --> 00:50:38,159
they like attack you. They they because sober people love

942
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,559
to help other sober people. Oh yeah, included. I get

943
00:50:41,639 --> 00:50:45,840
super excited when somebody's new, you know, and that's how

944
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,800
we stay sober as we help another person stay sober.

945
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:52,559
So you know, I didn't really understand that at the beginning.

946
00:50:52,679 --> 00:50:55,559
I was just like, Wow, these people really want me

947
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:59,840
to stay sober, you know. So I thought, oh, every

948
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:02,719
day every so the first thirty days, then you get

949
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,280
your next thirty. Then you have sixty days and you

950
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,079
get to raise your hand for that and come up

951
00:51:07,119 --> 00:51:09,000
and get a chip, and then you have ninety days

952
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,320
and people are like going crazy for you. You know. I

953
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:13,519
thrive on that kind of thing.

954
00:51:13,599 --> 00:51:17,639
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like like cause your reinforcement and like attention

955
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:19,880
and yeah, I know it.

956
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,079
Speaker 3: Likes on my Facebook posts, I like claps for my

957
00:51:23,199 --> 00:51:25,880
sobriety days, like I'll I eat it up. You know.

958
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,239
So then you get like six months, then you get

959
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,199
nine months, and that's what I'm saying is then I

960
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,599
was like, oh no, Like I get I'm going to

961
00:51:33,679 --> 00:51:35,920
have this birthday and people are going to be so

962
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,760
happy for me. But then what's going to happen between

963
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:39,880
year one and year two?

964
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:44,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like sixteen months every like yeah whatever.

965
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,639
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I had a lot of like friends by then.

966
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:51,800
I had you know, my we call it, I called

967
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,400
it my posse, and I had a bunch of girls

968
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,119
and we were all, you know, doing the deal together

969
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,880
and that really helped. You know, I had my right

970
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,239
meetings and my go to Fatburger after my meeting and

971
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,480
hang with my girls, and like life started happening, and

972
00:52:07,679 --> 00:52:12,440
you know, things started to feel better. And but I

973
00:52:12,519 --> 00:52:17,159
always stayed close. You know, I'm not I didn't. I

974
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,039
definitely didn't do it perfectly at the beginning. I I

975
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,519
you know, I did it perfectly. I didn't drink, but

976
00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:25,239
there were a lot of times, you know, I don't

977
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,840
want to make it seem like like looking back, there

978
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,440
were still those thoughts. I had a lot of that,

979
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:35,159
like feeling sorry for myself and maybe this was a mistake,

980
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,800
and comparing my story to other people's stories and like god,

981
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,639
like okay, yes I drove drunk, Like I know that's terrible,

982
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,280
but like look at this guy just had four DUIs,

983
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,760
Like of course he's here, but how do I don't

984
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:54,239
fit in here? Like I'm like a responsible mom, like.

985
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, or being like well that was just bad luck.

986
00:52:57,639 --> 00:53:00,760
Speaker 1: Or I mean in your book, you and you didn't

987
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,679
rationalize it to your husband at all, but you were like,

988
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,199
well I didn't eat anything and maybe X and maybe

989
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,320
why and like she was pouring too many of the

990
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,960
of the martinis or I mean, yeah a million times.

991
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 3: Rand wants to protect yourself and you're drinking.

992
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: And your ego like yes, yeah, Well so okay, I'm

993
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,599
dropping ahead because I know your story so well. But

994
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:32,559
will you tell people about like the New York Times

995
00:53:32,679 --> 00:53:34,480
and Katie Couric and.

996
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,199
Speaker 3: Like, oh okay, all this right? So I so that

997
00:53:39,119 --> 00:53:42,400
I make that blog post. This is just about why

998
00:53:42,519 --> 00:53:46,280
I started having all these things happen at the beginning,

999
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,559
which is crazy. So I have this blog post. Well,

1000
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:56,119
this New York Times parenting columnist named Lisa Belkin wrote

1001
00:53:56,159 --> 00:54:00,400
an article about me. Somehow she saw that. So my

1002
00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:04,480
blog was This might sound like not a small amount

1003
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,079
of people, but I only had like maybe five hundred

1004
00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:09,960
people reading my blog. It was not even thousands. It

1005
00:54:10,039 --> 00:54:13,679
was a small readership, but out of I don't know

1006
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,360
how she found it. But this parenting writer who had

1007
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,599
a parenting column called The mother Load.

1008
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 2: Well she might have been on your blog, right, was

1009
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:22,239
she following you?

1010
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 3: Possibly? I didn't recognize her name. So what happened is

1011
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,920
I was it was like ten days now I was

1012
00:54:30,039 --> 00:54:33,559
like sober ten days and I had done it doesn't

1013
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:36,679
really matter. All of a sudden I started getting these

1014
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:40,480
calls and these emails asking me to do TV appearances,

1015
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:44,199
and I was like, what, Like, how do people know

1016
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,679
that I stopped drinking? It's been ten days? So I

1017
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,559
got a call. Now I had been on the Doctor

1018
00:54:49,599 --> 00:54:54,599
Phil show before, so a Doctor Phil producer had gotten

1019
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,199
hold of me. And I was like, I don't understand

1020
00:54:58,199 --> 00:55:00,360
what's happening. How are these people fight? How did these

1021
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,360
people know? So I googled myself and I found out

1022
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,159
that there was a column in the New York Times,

1023
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,039
not the article that you read, but just somebody wrote

1024
00:55:09,039 --> 00:55:12,840
a column without consulting me, without saying I'm writing about

1025
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:13,800
you quitting drinking.

1026
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 2: It kind of it sucked and I still get uncool.

1027
00:55:17,039 --> 00:55:19,599
I mean, I'm not in the meeting like that's not okay.

1028
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 3: I don't think it's cool.

1029
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,280
Speaker 1: Because usually they'd ask you to comment, right, You would

1030
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,039
think she would have reached out to me and been like, Wow,

1031
00:55:28,079 --> 00:55:29,280
this is really interesting.

1032
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,159
Speaker 3: You decided to quit drinking. I'd like to make a

1033
00:55:31,159 --> 00:55:34,000
column about it. Do you want to comment? Right? You?

1034
00:55:34,519 --> 00:55:36,800
Speaker 2: And you would have been like, no, please don't do that.

1035
00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 3: I absolutely would have said please don't, even though I

1036
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,239
mean she basically outed me. Even though you could say

1037
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:47,639
I outed myself, but I.

1038
00:55:47,519 --> 00:55:51,280
Speaker 1: Didn't like telling your girlfriends or something right or like

1039
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:52,480
I don't.

1040
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:58,679
Speaker 3: Know what, yeah, kind of, so I felt very embarrassed.

1041
00:55:59,159 --> 00:56:01,880
I felt like, now all of these strangers know this

1042
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:05,320
about me. And also the comments were horrendous, like on

1043
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,880
her column, Like once I found the column and read

1044
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,719
it and was just like, and she excerpted my blog,

1045
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:14,679
so yes, I tell I have a whole chapter in

1046
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,559
my book and I call it outed that tells this story.

1047
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:22,119
But basically she used my words in her blog, which

1048
00:56:22,119 --> 00:56:25,079
I was like, it's kind of lazy. But anyway, all

1049
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:27,800
these people were like, oh, this woman never should have

1050
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:32,519
had kids, like she's horrible. Mind you. I hadn't even

1051
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,119
admitted the part about driving drunk. So these were people

1052
00:56:36,119 --> 00:56:38,199
that were just mad that I said that I had

1053
00:56:38,199 --> 00:56:40,400
a drinking problem and I drink too much and I'm

1054
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:41,280
quitting and I quit.

1055
00:56:42,159 --> 00:56:44,599
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like it was a pot or mad

1056
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,000
I stopped or whatever.

1057
00:56:47,519 --> 00:56:48,079
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1058
00:56:48,199 --> 00:56:51,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why it's so important to tell people who

1059
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,760
get it, like in the BFB, because like, they don't

1060
00:56:55,840 --> 00:57:00,000
judge you for being the worst mom ever, They're just like, yeah,

1061
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,559
of course you got addicted to this addictive substance, and

1062
00:57:03,599 --> 00:57:07,239
you were so fucking brave to like look at that

1063
00:57:07,639 --> 00:57:08,800
and try to stop.

1064
00:57:09,199 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 2: And so most people are like, so judgy.

1065
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,559
Speaker 3: So judgy, And most of those people were not of

1066
00:57:15,599 --> 00:57:17,760
the You're so brave. There were a few of those,

1067
00:57:18,239 --> 00:57:20,719
but a lot of them. But this is just the Internet.

1068
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,960
It's toxic, you know. So I kind of go into

1069
00:57:26,199 --> 00:57:29,159
not hiding, but like I'm like, I don't respond to

1070
00:57:29,199 --> 00:57:32,679
any That's how all these media people found it because

1071
00:57:32,679 --> 00:57:34,519
it was in the New York Times. So that's why

1072
00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:36,599
I was getting all these calls. So I refused. I

1073
00:57:36,639 --> 00:57:39,599
was like, absolutely not. I've been sober ten days. I

1074
00:57:39,599 --> 00:57:44,800
have nothing to share with anybody. But the New York

1075
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,760
Times reached out to my book publishing company a different

1076
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,880
like an actual New York Times writer, and she told

1077
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,880
them I want to do an interview with her, and

1078
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:58,719
I will make sure that it's like fit like a balance.

1079
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,320
I just wanted to I want to give her a

1080
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:02,880
chance to tell her story. And this was now I'd

1081
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:07,000
been sober like four months, so I just thought, you know,

1082
00:58:07,519 --> 00:58:11,519
I'm already outed. I might as well be able to

1083
00:58:11,599 --> 00:58:15,079
say my side on a bigger platform, you know what

1084
00:58:15,079 --> 00:58:17,320
I mean? Like, I don't want to just be what

1085
00:58:17,519 --> 00:58:21,719
somebody else's interpretation. So I was like, okay, I'll be interviewed.

1086
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,719
So she interviewed me, and I didn't At the time,

1087
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,079
I was like making I was still trying to be funny,

1088
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:31,639
like it was a serious interview. But at the very

1089
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:33,840
end of it, I was like, hey, but like I

1090
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,400
could still I made a joke about but vicodin is

1091
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,599
still like and I of course I wasn't taking vicodin.

1092
00:58:41,039 --> 00:58:44,320
I thought I was being funny. I was sober four months.

1093
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,719
I didn't know that you can't make a joke about that.

1094
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,800
And so people were like, oh my god, she's probably

1095
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:53,039
gonna be popping pills. And I was like, oh my lord, whatever.

1096
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:57,119
But I didn't get a bunch of emails or like

1097
00:58:57,199 --> 00:59:01,679
Facebook messages from women and I was like oh, like

1098
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,480
and I did not go like, oh, let me help you.

1099
00:59:05,599 --> 00:59:08,199
I was just like, yeah, I get it. I feel

1100
00:59:08,239 --> 00:59:12,239
for you. I'm right there with you. Like it's hard,

1101
00:59:12,679 --> 00:59:16,360
but you know. So then after that I got people

1102
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,079
reached out like I did Doctor Oz and I did

1103
00:59:19,079 --> 00:59:23,199
a couple of TV appearances. Then when I was nine

1104
00:59:23,199 --> 00:59:26,960
months sober, I got asked to do twenty twenty, and

1105
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:31,360
I was interviewed by Elizabeth Fargus. So each of these things,

1106
00:59:31,559 --> 00:59:34,400
so many women were reaching out to me and saying

1107
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,760
thank you for sharing your story and relating. And I

1108
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:43,119
felt like I felt not like it wasn't that I

1109
00:59:43,199 --> 00:59:45,920
enjoyed the attention at all, because I didn't. You know,

1110
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:49,639
it's like negative attention in a way, right, You're getting

1111
00:59:49,679 --> 00:59:54,000
attention for something you feel humiliated about. Yeah, But I

1112
00:59:54,119 --> 00:59:57,840
also knew that I was helping people in much a

1113
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,880
way that I felt like telling the truth, my truth

1114
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,400
about having a baby, and that I didn't fall in

1115
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:06,800
love at first sight, and that I didn't, you know,

1116
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:09,840
care about my baby's first birthday that much, and all

1117
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:13,000
these things that I was admitting that other women were like,

1118
01:00:13,039 --> 01:00:14,840
oh my god, thank god, because I thought I was

1119
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,320
the only one. I was like, well, maybe maybe me

1120
01:00:18,719 --> 01:00:21,719
feeling humiliated is a small price to pay for women

1121
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,400
to see themselves. Because at the time, I there was

1122
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,960
no it was not there was no like sober zeitgeist.

1123
01:00:27,079 --> 01:00:30,360
At the time. It was still like very secretive and

1124
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,400
kind of a weird thing that I was saying. The

1125
01:00:33,519 --> 01:00:37,159
rose all day was still going very strong at the beginning.

1126
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,639
Speaker 1: Still going strong. I'd work out with women and they're

1127
01:00:39,639 --> 01:00:42,800
wearing Rose all day T shirts and I'm a little

1128
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,159
bit like youw But yeah, I don't say that because

1129
01:00:46,199 --> 01:00:48,679
I used to have those. I mean, I didn't own

1130
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,519
that one, but I would have, you.

1131
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 3: Know, right right right. I mean it was an odd

1132
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:58,880
thing because you know, I wasn't telling people that I

1133
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,559
drove drunk because I I had a lot of excuses

1134
01:01:01,559 --> 01:01:03,960
for that. In my head, it was like, well, if

1135
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:04,800
I say that.

1136
01:01:05,559 --> 01:01:08,599
Speaker 2: And they're not required to tell everyone.

1137
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm not required. It's my personal story. Also

1138
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:16,559
in my mind, I was like, well, I'm not required,

1139
01:01:16,639 --> 01:01:20,119
it's not lying. I'm still I'm telling a lot of things.

1140
01:01:20,159 --> 01:01:22,840
I'm just omitting that one thing. In my mind, I

1141
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:24,960
was like, women are going to hear that, and they're

1142
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,960
going to be like, well, I would never do that,

1143
01:01:27,199 --> 01:01:30,320
so therefore I must have yeah problem. That was my rationalization.

1144
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:35,119
So cut to four years later, I get I hadn't

1145
01:01:35,159 --> 01:01:39,239
done much. I had kind of long since stopped doing

1146
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:43,400
TV appearances about quitting drinking. But I got asked to

1147
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,719
do Katie Kor's talk show, and at first I said no,

1148
01:01:49,119 --> 01:01:50,960
and I was like, I just don't want to keep

1149
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,519
being known for this. But they were like, listen, you know,

1150
01:01:53,719 --> 01:01:56,880
we're going to have on we just want to talk

1151
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,679
about the mommy drinking culture. And I was like, okay,

1152
01:01:59,679 --> 01:02:02,119
but you're not going to get what you think you

1153
01:02:02,199 --> 01:02:04,679
want out of it, because I'm not like trying to

1154
01:02:04,679 --> 01:02:11,079
reinstate prohibition. Like I believe that many women, including moms,

1155
01:02:11,599 --> 01:02:14,400
don't drink alcoholically, and that's great for them, and they

1156
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,239
should be able to drink, like, let's stop judging everything

1157
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:21,960
people are doing, and you know, and I still believed

1158
01:02:22,119 --> 01:02:26,079
that the drinking, the mommy drinking stuff is also like

1159
01:02:26,159 --> 01:02:28,719
how I wrote about it, like kind of a us

1160
01:02:28,719 --> 01:02:31,360
being rebellious and going like we're still fun and we're

1161
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:34,119
still funny. And I don't believe that every woman that

1162
01:02:34,159 --> 01:02:37,400
wears a rose all day t shirt is drinking rose

1163
01:02:37,639 --> 01:02:38,719
all day. No.

1164
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:43,000
Speaker 1: I don't either, although I feel like all those jokes

1165
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:49,079
encourage binge drinking, you know, like some of the stuff

1166
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:54,519
that like, you know, you see stuff that like dish

1167
01:02:54,559 --> 01:02:59,880
towels that are like I'm not slurring, I'm speaking in cursive,

1168
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,320
you know, and I'm just kind of like, ew, yeah.

1169
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 3: But what I kind of came to realize too is

1170
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,960
that a lot of women that are like making all

1171
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,800
these drinking jokes are kind of like I was, except

1172
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:18,079
minus the drinking problem, because I would be around these

1173
01:03:18,079 --> 01:03:20,199
women that are like, let's grab a bottle of wine

1174
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,840
before the This is when I was sober. A lot

1175
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:25,599
of moms at like like my kids elementary school, they

1176
01:03:25,639 --> 01:03:28,760
talked a good game about how much they all loved wine,

1177
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:30,360
and then they would have like a half a glass

1178
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,039
of wine and be like, oh, I'm good, I have to,

1179
01:03:32,199 --> 01:03:36,559
you know, drive, And I was like, everybody's so responsible, like,

1180
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:40,679
you know, so my I guess my point is, like,

1181
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:47,480
do I think it's great that we advertise alcohol as

1182
01:03:47,519 --> 01:03:53,679
a solution to new mom's genuine anxiety and lack of support? No, Like,

1183
01:03:53,679 --> 01:03:57,320
would it be better if we encouraged women to find

1184
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:01,920
actual support, or we helped women, or we each other's village. Sure,

1185
01:04:02,519 --> 01:04:04,840
but I also don't necessarily think that, like we're not

1186
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:09,440
allowed to make jokes about drinking. So my position was,

1187
01:04:10,039 --> 01:04:12,440
I haven't done a one eighty, and I'm not going

1188
01:04:12,519 --> 01:04:15,719
to sit there and judge women who have a glass

1189
01:04:15,719 --> 01:04:19,199
of wine. I'm but I am willing to tell my story.

1190
01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 1: And you're also not judging women who struggle with alcohol. Right,

1191
01:04:22,559 --> 01:04:27,719
that's the great things. You get it and you understand it,

1192
01:04:28,239 --> 01:04:30,760
and you understand how it happens, and you don't think

1193
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,280
that the worst people in the world the way, like

1194
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:36,960
the judgment is the issue in addition to a bunch

1195
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:38,320
of other stuff, you know.

1196
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,599
Speaker 3: Really. Yeah, So so in my mind, I'm like, Okay,

1197
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:46,000
I'll just do I'll do this show. But I told

1198
01:04:46,039 --> 01:04:49,199
them straight up, I'm not gonna like, I'm not going

1199
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,840
to sit there and say, don't try to pit me

1200
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,400
against somebody. Yeah, because you were going to have this

1201
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:57,400
woman who had a face book group called like I

1202
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,960
Forgot now, but it was like mommy needs or something,

1203
01:05:01,159 --> 01:05:03,760
you know. And I was like, I'm not gonna Oh

1204
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:06,480
that's fine, but I'm not gonna I'm not your girl

1205
01:05:06,559 --> 01:05:08,400
if you think that's what I'm gonna do. And they

1206
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:10,320
were like, no, no, no, that's fine. You just tell

1207
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:15,800
your story. Well I had done this like a I

1208
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,199
had done this show called Listen to Your Mother, and

1209
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:24,039
I had told the story about driving drunk, and it

1210
01:05:24,159 --> 01:05:26,840
was the only time I had ever sort of publicly

1211
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:31,280
told that story. Well I didn't know. I genuinely didn't

1212
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:34,400
know that they had recorded it and it was on YouTube.

1213
01:05:34,679 --> 01:05:37,280
So I get this call from a producer like a

1214
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:39,239
couple of nights before I was flying out to New

1215
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:41,639
York to do the show, and the producer's like, hey,

1216
01:05:42,199 --> 01:05:44,920
we found this thing and she tells me what it is,

1217
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:47,880
and like my heart dropped and she was like, where

1218
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:50,840
you told this story about drinking and driving and Katie

1219
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,440
wants to ask you about it? And I was like, oh,

1220
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:58,960
absolutely not no, and she was like I really, she

1221
01:05:59,039 --> 01:06:02,079
really thinks it's gonna help help people, and you know,

1222
01:06:03,159 --> 01:06:05,760
I mean, and you did you know it is on YouTube?

1223
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:08,679
And I was like, well, I didn't know it was

1224
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:11,880
and I don't feel comfortable talking about that on national

1225
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,119
television and no, I'm not going to talk about it.

1226
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:19,480
And I said, now, I'd done a lot of TV

1227
01:06:19,559 --> 01:06:23,960
at this point, so I was not like, I'm not

1228
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:26,519
trying to like brag, but I'm saying I wasn't like

1229
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:28,480
impressed that I was going on Katie Cork. I was

1230
01:06:28,519 --> 01:06:31,519
only like half into it anyway. So I was like,

1231
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:34,480
if if that's what's gonna happen, I would rather I don't.

1232
01:06:34,519 --> 01:06:38,320
I'm not coming and she was like so she was

1233
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,039
like no, no, no, no, we please come, like, we

1234
01:06:41,079 --> 01:06:43,639
won't ask you about it. Well, then Katie asked me

1235
01:06:43,639 --> 01:06:48,039
about it, and I felt sabotaged. It was terrible. It

1236
01:06:48,079 --> 01:06:51,239
was a horrible feeling. But I was like, what am

1237
01:06:51,239 --> 01:06:55,320
I what I'm not gonna lie like, yeah, I'm not

1238
01:06:55,320 --> 01:07:00,519
gonna So it was a very uncomfortable moment and I felt,

1239
01:07:01,119 --> 01:07:04,719
you know, all the feelings of just I felt exposed

1240
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:11,480
and scared and embarrassed. And I was just like, yeah, yeah,

1241
01:07:11,519 --> 01:07:14,840
I did that, and then I said and then I

1242
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:18,639
that was my moment. And I haven't had a drink since,

1243
01:07:18,719 --> 01:07:20,840
which was true, and I had been like like four

1244
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:25,039
years at that point. Yeah, and I felt I was

1245
01:07:25,079 --> 01:07:28,880
so mad afterwards, Casey, I was like freaking out. I

1246
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:33,480
was really pissed. And my publicist was there because I

1247
01:07:33,519 --> 01:07:35,360
was doing a show at the time. I was on

1248
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:38,679
a TV show, and the publicist for the TV show

1249
01:07:38,679 --> 01:07:42,079
it was a show for parents for moms. It was

1250
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:47,360
on Nickelodeon Nick at Night, and I the publicists didn't

1251
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:50,519
really understand what had just happened, and she wasn't even upset,

1252
01:07:50,599 --> 01:07:52,840
Like I was like, that wasn't supposed to happen, and

1253
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,039
I wasn't going to say that, and she was like, whatever,

1254
01:07:56,079 --> 01:07:59,280
it's fine. I felt like, oh my god, I'm gonna

1255
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:02,360
get kicked off this TV show, you know, But like

1256
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:07,039
nothing bad happened, basically, and what I thought was going

1257
01:08:07,119 --> 01:08:10,440
to be just I don't know what I thought. I

1258
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:12,760
thought I was gonna get the TV show taken away.

1259
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:14,920
I thought parents, you know, people were gonna just be

1260
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:18,119
judging so harshly. But what I got was a bunch

1261
01:08:18,199 --> 01:08:22,000
of moms again going oh my god, I relate to

1262
01:08:22,039 --> 01:08:26,199
your story really a problem too, And that was a

1263
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:29,439
very ended up in retrospect being very freeing.

1264
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: Because this out there story, you were terrified that people

1265
01:08:35,319 --> 01:08:36,840
like you would be found out.

1266
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:37,359
Speaker 2: Kind of thing.

1267
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:39,119
Speaker 3: I felt like I had a secret.

1268
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you still got to be pissed right like

1269
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:44,199
I I was just.

1270
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 3: Katie Cork sucks. She really, like I mean, she told

1271
01:08:51,039 --> 01:08:53,000
I didn't want to talk about that, and she was

1272
01:08:53,039 --> 01:08:56,079
like exposing me, and it wasn't you know what I mean,

1273
01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:59,880
Like why, yeah, yeah, what's the reason for that?

1274
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: So did you cause of course I don't, like, I

1275
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:07,880
know a ton of your story and I've followed it

1276
01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:09,159
and I didn't know about the.

1277
01:09:09,199 --> 01:09:10,199
Speaker 2: Katie Kurrk thing.

1278
01:09:11,239 --> 01:09:17,239
Speaker 1: Did you have any hesitation about putting that in this

1279
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:21,079
book in Drunkish and cause you're obviously doing a lot

1280
01:09:21,079 --> 01:09:23,119
of press for it, like did you want to bring

1281
01:09:23,159 --> 01:09:23,880
that up again?

1282
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 2: And you know all that.

1283
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,520
Speaker 1: Crap, because it's in your intro right when I was

1284
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:29,279
reading it.

1285
01:09:29,199 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, okay, I mean in your bio

1286
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:33,960
right for the book.

1287
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:39,079
Speaker 3: The thing is, I feel like it's all my story is.

1288
01:09:39,199 --> 01:09:42,960
There's like a progression to the quitting drinking. You know.

1289
01:09:43,159 --> 01:09:46,159
The book is basically I made it into kind of

1290
01:09:46,159 --> 01:09:51,159
two parts, so it's you know, what happened, what it

1291
01:09:51,239 --> 01:09:54,479
was like, and my childhood and all these things that

1292
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:56,760
I think people can see the writing on the wall,

1293
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:01,479
the addiction. The food addiction started with, you know, feeling

1294
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:05,000
obsessed with sugar, like all the all the ways that

1295
01:10:05,079 --> 01:10:07,880
I couldn't see until later that I could look back

1296
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,680
and go, oh, look, I had a father, a biological father,

1297
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,680
who was a pill addict his whole life. I had

1298
01:10:15,239 --> 01:10:18,479
issues with food from a really young age. Like all

1299
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,199
of these things I could go back, because I think

1300
01:10:22,199 --> 01:10:25,039
when people write books when they've only been sober a

1301
01:10:25,039 --> 01:10:27,199
couple of years, it's a little tougher. But I had

1302
01:10:27,279 --> 01:10:30,359
a lot of sobriety under my belt a lot.

1303
01:10:30,239 --> 01:10:33,600
Speaker 2: Of fourteen years right like right by the.

1304
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:37,359
Speaker 3: Booking, Yeah, I mean, by the time the book comes out,

1305
01:10:37,359 --> 01:10:39,840
I'll be almost fifteen years sober. So I've had a

1306
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:44,600
long time of doing the work of looking at my

1307
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:48,159
life and looking at the things that have happened that

1308
01:10:48,359 --> 01:10:50,479
I could I could look back and see all that.

1309
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,680
So once I got sober, the next part of the

1310
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:59,680
book I felt was unraveling that shame and embarrassment and

1311
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:04,000
get to like the freedom, right So part of that

1312
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:08,039
I felt was how I got out it and how

1313
01:11:09,199 --> 01:11:12,279
different ways that I had accountability in different ways that like,

1314
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:14,880
and that was part I felt like that was part of,

1315
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:17,680
for lack of a better word, the journey in sobriety.

1316
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:21,920
It's like holding onto that secret and thinking like, well,

1317
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,159
if only people don't know about this part of it,

1318
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,960
I'll be safe. And then having people find out that

1319
01:11:28,159 --> 01:11:31,720
part of it, I felt like was a big moment

1320
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:35,199
where my sobriety opened up even a little bit more

1321
01:11:35,239 --> 01:11:39,199
because I had less I was less hiding.

1322
01:11:40,119 --> 01:11:42,520
Speaker 1: Well, and you have this big secret and it's out

1323
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,079
there and then the world doesn't end, you know, and

1324
01:11:45,119 --> 01:11:49,119
that's a relief, right it was a relief, and I

1325
01:11:49,199 --> 01:11:53,479
didn't I don't think I did many other appearances or

1326
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:54,680
talked about it that much.

1327
01:11:54,760 --> 01:12:00,319
Speaker 3: But you know, years went by, and you know there's

1328
01:12:00,359 --> 01:12:02,760
a lot of like twelve step stuff in the book.

1329
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:06,760
But part of that is not really that I'm promoting

1330
01:12:07,239 --> 01:12:09,720
being in a twelve step program. It's that some of

1331
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:13,319
the work of the twelve steps helped, like helps me

1332
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,399
some of those tools, like apologizing, like learning to see

1333
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:22,159
my part. Yeah, it's so important to my sobriety and that,

1334
01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:25,560
like regardless of whether you're doing that work in a

1335
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:29,520
twelve step program like that. To me, the book is

1336
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:34,359
like like looking like the last chapter, which I call

1337
01:12:34,439 --> 01:12:38,600
sorry about your Bachelorette Party, and this is you know,

1338
01:12:39,159 --> 01:12:42,479
was apologizing to this friend of mine who I like

1339
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:46,560
fucked up her bachelorette party. But for years I held

1340
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:48,920
on to like, oh my god, what what's the big deal?

1341
01:12:49,279 --> 01:12:52,159
Like it would be ridiculous if she was mad about

1342
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:57,920
this and I got drunk and like left her the

1343
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,159
dinner with like a married guy. I mean, my behavior

1344
01:13:01,279 --> 01:13:05,520
was bad. It was bad, but for so long I

1345
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:09,600
was defiant and like defensive ways that I acted, and

1346
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:12,239
like that was a flop and here's all the reasons

1347
01:13:12,279 --> 01:13:15,760
for that, and he was separated and he was you

1348
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:18,760
know what I mean, and like, it's not. It wasn't

1349
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:22,479
until getting sober that I realized, like part of the

1350
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:25,319
part of staying sober for me had to be like

1351
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:27,920
just taking responsibility.

1352
01:13:28,399 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, from total Oh oh my god. My sister's

1353
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:36,239
like wedding. I was super young and I'd just broken

1354
01:13:36,319 --> 01:13:39,239
up with my boyfriend, and then I got Bell's palsy, which,

1355
01:13:39,279 --> 01:13:42,760
if anyone doesn't know that I was like twenty five,

1356
01:13:43,159 --> 01:13:45,720
in theory, its stress related, but also just like you

1357
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:48,600
get a sinus. In fact, like half of my face

1358
01:13:49,239 --> 01:13:52,920
was paralyzed. I looked like Mary Joe but afuco you know,

1359
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:55,520
if nobody knows.

1360
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:58,640
Speaker 3: I do, and that just lend me Holy shit.

1361
01:13:59,039 --> 01:14:00,960
Speaker 1: If I knew I was gonna at Bell's palsy, I

1362
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:04,119
wouldn't been so quick to break up with my college boyfriend,

1363
01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:08,279
like what the hell? And so then I was the

1364
01:14:08,399 --> 01:14:13,359
mad maid of honor in my sister's wedding and I

1365
01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:15,359
was way too young to be that she should have

1366
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:19,640
chosen her best friend or something. And I brought my

1367
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:22,920
two best friends because I had no date, and I

1368
01:14:23,039 --> 01:14:25,439
freaking got so dry. I mean I looked horrible in

1369
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,560
the pictures. Half my face was paralyzed, Like it was humiliating.

1370
01:14:29,159 --> 01:14:31,479
And so I got so drunk that I like jumped

1371
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:35,119
up on the stage to like give a toast, was

1372
01:14:35,159 --> 01:14:38,560
going to hug her afterwards, like trip slid across the

1373
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:41,119
dance floor on my knees and then tried to like

1374
01:14:41,239 --> 01:14:44,159
pop up and play it off like I meant to

1375
01:14:44,239 --> 01:14:44,560
do it.

1376
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:46,720
Speaker 2: And then at the end of the night, I like.

1377
01:14:47,159 --> 01:14:50,720
Speaker 1: Was trying to convince my best friends to like go

1378
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:53,640
swimming in the river by where she was getting married,

1379
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:55,840
and they were like, you're gonna fucking die like that

1380
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,680
river it's fout, Like come on, we could do it.

1381
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,359
I woke up the next world like so hungover. Didn't

1382
01:15:02,399 --> 01:15:04,399
remember a decent part of it, you know when people

1383
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:06,720
tell you like I didn't remember wanting to swim in

1384
01:15:06,720 --> 01:15:10,119
the river, and like my whole family was there, like

1385
01:15:10,159 --> 01:15:13,600
my grandparents, my great uncles, Like I was just like,

1386
01:15:14,399 --> 01:15:16,920
holy shit, she know that. I was like, well, my

1387
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,359
boyfriend broke up or I broke up with him, and

1388
01:15:19,399 --> 01:15:22,760
I have bell all the and like right right wedding.

1389
01:15:22,399 --> 01:15:26,239
Speaker 2: Why are these people so uptight? It was beyond inappropriate?

1390
01:15:27,079 --> 01:15:28,039
Speaker 3: Was your sister mad?

1391
01:15:28,560 --> 01:15:32,079
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, who wouldn't be mad? Like what the fuck? Right?

1392
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 1: And like I also planned the worst bachelorette party ever.

1393
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:38,840
I decided to take her to a strip club and

1394
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,640
I didn't realize it was a gay strip club for men,

1395
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:46,039
Like I just should not. I mean, you nobody should

1396
01:15:46,119 --> 01:15:48,039
pick a twenty five year old to be your maid

1397
01:15:48,079 --> 01:15:51,439
of honor in a wedding, Like it's you have no idea? Yeah,

1398
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:52,239
it was terrible.

1399
01:15:53,079 --> 01:15:57,319
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that is so funny and relatable. Yeah

1400
01:15:57,439 --> 01:15:58,039
as well?

1401
01:15:58,319 --> 01:16:00,520
Speaker 2: Is it relatable? And do a lot of try to

1402
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,960
go swimming in the river people?

1403
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:06,520
Speaker 3: Well, people that end up sober. A lot of us

1404
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,439
have these kind of stories. Isn't that I.

1405
01:16:09,239 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 1: Love sober people because they have the best stories, right?

1406
01:16:13,199 --> 01:16:16,560
Speaker 3: I always say, like I don't necessarily like people that

1407
01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:18,960
just don't drink because they just never really like the

1408
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,439
taste of alcohol, Like I, if you don't drink, it

1409
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:23,479
should be because you've drank way too much.

1410
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:27,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh my god. I know. Like I have

1411
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,800
friends who like, I'm always like, did you drink? Because

1412
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:31,560
you seem so.

1413
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:34,840
Speaker 1: Like responsible and they're like, oh my god, I met

1414
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:38,199
this musician who was famous back in the day, and

1415
01:16:38,239 --> 01:16:41,680
we went to Paris for two months and I'm like, really,

1416
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:48,680
you know, right, incredible, Well, so what's next for you? You

1417
01:16:48,439 --> 01:16:52,840
wrote this book and you're by the way, you're gonna

1418
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:56,199
help so many people, and you helped me, and Carolyn

1419
01:16:56,279 --> 01:17:00,600
Knapp helped me like that. Those books are so and

1420
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:04,920
you don't know that, like a decade later, someone's hiding

1421
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:08,039
this book on their Kindle being like, holy shit for

1422
01:17:08,079 --> 01:17:09,800
the first time, you.

1423
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:13,600
Speaker 3: Know, well, you know the book that helped me, even

1424
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,000
though I read it way but well, Carolyn Napp's book,

1425
01:17:16,079 --> 01:17:20,239
but also Augustin burrows book Dry Love. That book one

1426
01:17:20,239 --> 01:17:24,560
of the first books I read about alcoholism that was

1427
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:26,960
so laugh out loud funny to me, you know that

1428
01:17:27,039 --> 01:17:29,239
I could relate to that. I was like, oh my god,

1429
01:17:29,319 --> 01:17:32,000
I have thought that way, even though I was snowhere

1430
01:17:32,119 --> 01:17:35,600
near getting sober. I just thought he was a hilarious writer.

1431
01:17:36,239 --> 01:17:39,560
And I have revisited that book so many many times,

1432
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,840
and now I just see how much I relate to it.

1433
01:17:43,159 --> 01:17:47,680
But yeah, that was a book that helped me. When

1434
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:50,680
I got sober. I reread the book from cover to

1435
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:53,000
cover and yeah, I mean, that's what I'm that's what

1436
01:17:53,039 --> 01:17:56,159
I'm hoping. I'm hoping that this book is something that

1437
01:17:56,239 --> 01:18:01,159
helps people. I'm hoping that my honesty, while embarrassing, because

1438
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:04,800
there are so many I mean, I you know, I teach,

1439
01:18:05,039 --> 01:18:08,079
I teach. Memoir writing is one of the main things

1440
01:18:08,119 --> 01:18:10,840
that I do. And I feel like if you're not

1441
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:14,279
making yourself uncomfortable and exposing things about yourself, then you're

1442
01:18:14,319 --> 01:18:17,680
not doing your job writing a memoir. So I always

1443
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,039
have to just forget that anybody's going to read it

1444
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:24,840
and like tell the secrets. So I'm hoping that me

1445
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:28,279
humiliating myself a bit in this book and telling some

1446
01:18:28,399 --> 01:18:31,720
things that like are not like really proper to talk

1447
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:33,880
about or tell helps people.

1448
01:18:34,079 --> 01:18:37,239
Speaker 1: I mean, that's will help people who've done that or

1449
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:40,640
done something similar or feel like they're headed in.

1450
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 2: That way and being like, oh, she.

1451
01:18:45,039 --> 01:18:49,039
Speaker 1: Was there and it's okay, and she got out of

1452
01:18:49,079 --> 01:18:52,840
it and she's happier now, and like, you know.

1453
01:18:53,239 --> 01:18:56,319
Speaker 3: And I wanted to also, though, talk about the real

1454
01:18:56,479 --> 01:19:00,000
way that my brain worked after I quit drinking, because

1455
01:19:00,359 --> 01:19:02,720
I'd never want to give the impression that I was

1456
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:05,760
immediately like, well, best decision of my life. I feel

1457
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:08,800
great now, like no problem. Nothing to see here, Like, no,

1458
01:19:09,039 --> 01:19:12,479
it was a process and it was miserable at times,

1459
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:15,359
and it was hard. And I want people to understand

1460
01:19:15,359 --> 01:19:17,880
that if they're newly sober, they're trying to do this

1461
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,159
and they have anxiety, Like so did I. You know,

1462
01:19:21,319 --> 01:19:23,920
because a lot of times at the beginning of my sobriety,

1463
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:26,600
I thought everybody else was doing sobriety better than me,

1464
01:19:27,079 --> 01:19:30,439
you know that, Like, and that's that's like a recurrent

1465
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:32,640
theme with me. It's like when I was a new parent,

1466
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:34,439
I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Everybody's

1467
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:36,800
doing it better than me. People are judging me. And

1468
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:39,520
I felt that way, you know, I always feel that way.

1469
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:41,760
I feel that way about writing. I'm like, oh, I'm

1470
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:44,800
not a great writer like other people are so much.

1471
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:47,279
Speaker 1: O that way when I became like a coach, I

1472
01:19:47,319 --> 01:19:49,800
became a life coach, and then I decided to work

1473
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:52,439
with women in sobriety and went back to you know,

1474
01:19:52,920 --> 01:19:57,520
get that expertise. But I also when I started a podcast,

1475
01:19:57,560 --> 01:19:59,840
like even on the BFB, I was like, what are

1476
01:20:00,039 --> 01:20:02,760
people going to think who've been sober longer than me? Like,

1477
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,880
who the hell am I to like start that you

1478
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:09,079
know like that is so normal.

1479
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 3: I think I feel that way about a lot of

1480
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:15,800
like old timers, people that have been sober like thirty years.

1481
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,920
They're probably going to think it's very annoying that I'm

1482
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:22,279
writing a book. But all I can do is write

1483
01:20:22,319 --> 01:20:25,600
about my experience. I'm not trying to teach anybody anything

1484
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,000
in this book. It's that's why I told my publisher

1485
01:20:29,399 --> 01:20:32,359
I would like to write it as a memoir, sort

1486
01:20:32,399 --> 01:20:37,399
of like I wrote Sippy Cups, you know, about my experience.

1487
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:40,000
It's not gonna it's an anti advice book. I'm not

1488
01:20:40,039 --> 01:20:43,960
telling anybody to do. This is like my what happened

1489
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:46,079
to me and how I felt, And if you can

1490
01:20:46,159 --> 01:20:49,680
relate to the feelings and feel less alone, then I've

1491
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:51,239
done my jo. Then I've done what I see.

1492
01:20:51,279 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 2: People will relate to your feelings.

1493
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:56,960
Speaker 1: And I think just my two cents on the old timer,

1494
01:20:57,000 --> 01:20:59,560
because trust me, I felt I feel that too, and

1495
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:02,640
I'm like, uh, who's gonna you know? But I always

1496
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:07,840
tell people it is sometimes way more helpful to someone

1497
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:11,600
in early sobriety to hear from someone at four months

1498
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:14,039
or six months or even two months than it is

1499
01:21:14,079 --> 01:21:17,399
to hear from me at eight years, they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1500
01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:18,439
you're fucking happy.

1501
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:20,439
Speaker 2: I get it, you know what I mean. But if

1502
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:22,399
someone's like, I'm at.

1503
01:21:22,319 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 1: Forty days and like it completely fucking sucked. But here's

1504
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:30,479
the one thing that I'm really proud of, then that's

1505
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:33,319
more relatable to them because it's more achievable.

1506
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:39,239
Speaker 3: I agree. In fact, when I go to meetings, I

1507
01:21:39,439 --> 01:21:41,680
like to I like to be around people that are

1508
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:44,840
brand new. I don't want I don't I don't get

1509
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:48,439
anything from people that have been sober a million years

1510
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:50,680
that are just quoting the Big Book and you know

1511
01:21:51,319 --> 01:21:52,520
all about the gratitude.

1512
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:53,560
Speaker 2: Who cares.

1513
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:55,359
Speaker 1: I want to hear from somebody to tell the same

1514
01:21:55,399 --> 01:21:59,159
stories all the fucking time, right, Yes, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1515
01:21:59,159 --> 01:22:01,159
I've heard your No I'm terrible.

1516
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:04,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's you know what, it's helpful to hear.

1517
01:22:04,319 --> 01:22:06,520
It's helpful to go like, oh my gosh, that was

1518
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:09,920
me not that long ago. It feels like people that

1519
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:10,920
are struggling, you know.

1520
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:13,880
Speaker 1: Well, two more things I wanted to mention because I've

1521
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:16,680
kept you way, way, way too long, but I love

1522
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:22,640
loved talking to you. Okay, Elizabeth Vargas interviewed you before

1523
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:26,119
she admitted she was struggling with drinking in before she

1524
01:22:26,199 --> 01:22:27,359
went to rehab.

1525
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:28,279
Speaker 2: By the way, she has.

1526
01:22:28,159 --> 01:22:34,159
Speaker 1: A fantastic book Between Breasts about anxiety but and drinking.

1527
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:37,279
Speaker 2: But how is that? Did you know what I mean?

1528
01:22:38,439 --> 01:22:38,520
Speaker 1: So?

1529
01:22:40,079 --> 01:22:44,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I believe the timeline though, was like,

1530
01:22:44,239 --> 01:22:47,000
I think it was two years after I was on

1531
01:22:47,039 --> 01:22:49,560
her show that she came out as an alcoholic, And

1532
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:53,920
I was like wow, because she was such a great

1533
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:59,720
interviewer to me, she was so locked in and interested,

1534
01:23:00,199 --> 01:23:03,520
and part of me was like, is she really really

1535
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:06,600
good journalist or is she way too interested in this topic?

1536
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:09,359
You know? And it was only when she came out

1537
01:23:09,399 --> 01:23:12,359
as an alcoholic that I was like, oh, okay, she

1538
01:23:12,560 --> 01:23:15,239
was soaking up stories.

1539
01:23:15,399 --> 01:23:19,359
Speaker 1: Was from reading her book, really really struggling at that point, you.

1540
01:23:19,319 --> 01:23:24,600
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, yeah she was yeah so and then and

1541
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:27,319
then she relapsed and then she went back to rehab,

1542
01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:30,239
and I felt I felt terrible.

1543
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:34,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I bet you helped her just by having

1544
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:37,439
your story out there and having her interview you, you

1545
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:38,039
know what I mean.

1546
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:42,079
Speaker 3: So the author Mary Carr, who wrote the book lit,

1547
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:45,960
who's uh, like a best selling author and she's written

1548
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,239
a lot of books and she's so she was also

1549
01:23:49,359 --> 01:23:52,960
interviewed at the same time. I was so I think

1550
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:56,319
we were interviewed in a row. And then I found

1551
01:23:56,359 --> 01:23:59,760
out later that Elizabeth Fargus went out to lunch with

1552
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:03,279
my Carr after the interview, and I was so bummed.

1553
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:08,359
Speaker 2: Oh, you're kiddings. She didn't invite you. Oh oh my god.

1554
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:11,119
Speaker 3: Mary Carr had been sober like twenty years and I've

1555
01:24:11,159 --> 01:24:15,399
been sobered nine months. But still I was like, if

1556
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:17,279
she's going to go out to lunch with somebody to

1557
01:24:17,359 --> 01:24:19,720
like pick their brain or whatever, like of course she

1558
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:22,279
picked like the best selling halfor.

1559
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:25,640
Speaker 1: Oh my god, well, does every sober person like read

1560
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:27,520
every single quick lip book out there?

1561
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:29,520
Speaker 2: Because I feel like I have.

1562
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:33,359
Speaker 1: I've read every freaking book out there and I love them.

1563
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a great genre. I know. You interviewed

1564
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:40,760
Laura Cathcart Robinson. My god, her book is so Bash

1565
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:41,600
is really.

1566
01:24:41,479 --> 01:24:43,119
Speaker 2: And brave Dash.

1567
01:24:43,199 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 1: I will link to it in the show notes. Yeah,

1568
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:52,920
because it's so brave and so relatable and amazing, and

1569
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:54,960
I was so psyched to meet her in person. She

1570
01:24:55,079 --> 01:24:58,760
came up to Seattle to give a book talk about Stash,

1571
01:24:58,800 --> 01:25:00,760
and it was after I'd inter viewed her on the

1572
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:01,760
podcast and it.

1573
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:02,439
Speaker 2: Was so cool.

1574
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:04,560
Speaker 3: That's awesome.

1575
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1576
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:08,840
Speaker 1: Okay, so I've taken like way, way way more time.

1577
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:12,279
Thank you so much, truly, this has been on my

1578
01:25:12,319 --> 01:25:13,920
bucket list to talk to you forever.

1579
01:25:14,279 --> 01:25:17,399
Speaker 3: This was really fun. This is like my most fun podcast.

1580
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:22,319
Speaker 1: Oh cool, cool, Well, I'm sure you'll have a ton more.

1581
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:25,520
Tell everyone how they can follow you. Find the book,

1582
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:28,359
all the good stuff, watch your listen to your podcast.

1583
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:31,439
Speaker 3: So I do a podcast called for Crying Out Loud.

1584
01:25:32,399 --> 01:25:36,920
That's every Tuesday and Friday everywhere you find podcasts with

1585
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:40,479
my co host Lynette Corolla, and we talk about parenting

1586
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:45,079
and I talk a lot about sobriety. There too. My

1587
01:25:45,199 --> 01:25:48,600
website Stephanie wildertailor dot com. You can find everything. You

1588
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,239
can find my classes on there if you want to

1589
01:25:51,279 --> 01:25:54,600
take a memoir writing class. Yeah, and the book Drunkish

1590
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:58,039
is out everywhere. Yeah, and so Noble.

1591
01:25:58,239 --> 01:26:02,359
Speaker 1: A lot of sober people are new sober people. Take

1592
01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:05,560
your memoir writing class, because I feel like that's something

1593
01:26:05,640 --> 01:26:07,720
that a lot of people, even if they never want

1594
01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:09,319
to published, kind of explore.

1595
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. I get a lot. I get a lot of

1596
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:14,399
sober people. I just get a lot of women. It's

1597
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:16,920
only for women cool. I just been a lot of

1598
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:20,520
people that have always wanted to try writing. And it's

1599
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:23,840
a nice safe I keep my classes really small. It's

1600
01:26:24,119 --> 01:26:28,159
very loving and encouraging, and I just make it fun,

1601
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:32,359
a safe place, a safe place for people to just

1602
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,880
like tell a little bit of their story, whatever that

1603
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:37,279
story is. And I help people figure out what story

1604
01:26:37,319 --> 01:26:39,600
they have to tell. So yeah, a lot of times

1605
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:42,359
if people are sober, I'm like, well tell me, why

1606
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:43,760
let me hear that story.

1607
01:26:44,399 --> 01:26:47,399
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I kind of like that. It's just women too,

1608
01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:51,239
because I don't know, writing a memoir is very vulnerable.

1609
01:26:52,279 --> 01:26:53,359
Speaker 3: It is, it is.

1610
01:26:53,640 --> 01:26:54,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1611
01:26:54,319 --> 01:26:58,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, thank you truly, thank you, Thank you so much,

1612
01:27:00,359 --> 01:27:03,840
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Hello

1613
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:08,000
Sunday podcast. If you're interested in learning more about me,

1614
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:12,359
the work I do, and access free resources and guides

1615
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,680
to help you build a life you love without alcohol,

1616
01:27:16,279 --> 01:27:22,199
please visit Hellosdaycoaching dot com. And I would be so

1617
01:27:22,279 --> 01:27:25,560
grateful if you would take a few minutes to rate

1618
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:29,159
and review this podcast so that more women can find

1619
01:27:29,199 --> 01:27:34,079
it and join the conversation about drinking less and living more.