WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.480 Why do sail ads have to be so over the top. 2 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:07.599 Why can't they be more relaxed, more like the air 3 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:11.560 Lingus January Sale. Sure, great savings on flights to Europe 4 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:14.560 and North America are worth shouting about, but that wouldn't 5 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:18.239 be very air Lingus, would it. Sale ends twentieth of January. 6 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:19.960 Book now at airlingus dot com. 7 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:23.320 My daughter Ellie had this ankle pain. We went to 8 00:00:23.359 --> 00:00:26.719 see VGI Orthopedics that they actually picked up on her 9 00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:31.160 fatigue issues, so they brought in a rheumatologists and just 10 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:34.439 a few small tests, they realized that Ellie was sediac. 11 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:38.359 So what was brilliant was that VGI had a pediatric 12 00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:41.119 dietitian ready to help manage her diet. 13 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:48.000 Really felt shameless, VGI, because your health means. 14 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:59.920 Everything on the go, NonStop gym sessions, deadlines, homework with ava, 15 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:06.439 more soups, comforting, flavorful taste, It all just hmmm, with 16 00:01:06.519 --> 00:01:09.879 a range of different flavors. We've been perfecting soup for 17 00:01:09.959 --> 00:01:13.519 over thirty years, so you can have a moment of 18 00:01:13.640 --> 00:01:19.439 delicious pleasure. So whatever it is, soup it with Avon. 19 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:24.920 Moore meaning a live man like this man you letting 20 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:27.680 butterfly flapping his wing. Dig down in the forest, man, 21 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:30.959 it gonna cause the tree fall, letting five thousand miles away. 22 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:39.200 Man, nobody, see nobody. You don't need no man. 23 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:41.920 Don't they plug you with a little story? 24 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:44.319 And you got like to like that. That's the point. 25 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:46.760 Man, don't black it down on the pane right now. 26 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:47.920 You don't don't matter. 27 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:48.680 Man. 28 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:58.280 Okay, all right, mister Chris Fish, welcome to the Jay 29 00:01:58.280 --> 00:01:59.319 Burton Show. How are you doing. 30 00:01:59.799 --> 00:02:02.000 I'm very well and I'm glad to be with you. 31 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:07.480 So I know your son. We have some friends in common, 32 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.240 but I had not been exposed to your work until 33 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:13.759 you wrote an article in the most recent edition of Chronicles. 34 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:16.000 Quite good. I'll have it linked on the description for 35 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:18.840 those interested. But if you could before we get into 36 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:21.719 your article, could you describe who you are and what 37 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:22.199 you do. 38 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:27.280 Well. I am seventy one. I was born in Belgrade 39 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:36.599 in Tito's heyday. My primary and secondary education was in Yugoslavia. 40 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:42.520 It was good quality education because, believe it turned up, 41 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:48.639 even though Tito's brand of communism was not typical real 42 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:52.240 socialism of the Soviet type, it was still pretty oppressive. 43 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:57.400 But education was good unless of course it dealt with 44 00:02:57.479 --> 00:03:01.840 things like sociology and political economy, and in that case 45 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:07.000 you had to parrot the platitudes and ideological cliche days. 46 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:11.759 But I had always been interested in world affairs, and 47 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:20.319 so after the grammar school and the fifteen months army service, 48 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:24.039 I went to England to study international relations at the 49 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:29.400 University of Sussex. At that time, fees for foreign students 50 00:03:29.400 --> 00:03:34.960 were still quite low, and my family could afford it. 51 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:39.719 But also I wanted to live in the West because 52 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:45.120 at that time I was actually younger, naive and pro Western, 53 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:51.159 because frankly, Tito's culture personality always got onto my nerves, 54 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:57.560 and I believed that all that the West came to represent, 55 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:04.039 as conveyed in the movies, popular literature, and of course 56 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:11.319 goods such as genes and electronics, had a certain magnetism 57 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:14.680 that was quite strong at the time. I must say. 58 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:21.000 Also in nineteen seventy two, I was seventeen eighteen at 59 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:25.199 the time, when I spent some months first in France 60 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:29.800 then in England, I really decided that I didn't want 61 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:34.839 to live in what used to be Yugoslavia, that this 62 00:04:35.079 --> 00:04:39.279 was much more dynamic, much more interesting part of the world. 63 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:47.079 And much more promising, both professionally and material So I 64 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:51.959 started my Western career as a radio journalist with the 65 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:56.199 BBC World Service, both in what used to be the 66 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.920 Yugoslav Service at the time and later in the news 67 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:04.399 room and talks and features department, moving to the Voice 68 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:08.199 of America, where he stayed only very briefly in eighty 69 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:16.120 six eighty seven. It was a very bureaucratic and stifling organization, 70 00:05:17.319 --> 00:05:22.519 and then I became a freelancer reporting from Belgrade for 71 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:27.360 US News and World Report eighty nine to ninety one. 72 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:32.079 It was the time of Yugoslavia's gradual disintegration and slide 73 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:37.160 into civil war, and in ninety one ninety two I 74 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:42.319 spent a year as a postdoctoral researcher at the Hoover 75 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:47.040 Institution at Stanford on a State Department grant. And that 76 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:52.199 was my swan song, as shall we say, kosher member 77 00:05:52.800 --> 00:06:01.279 of the establishment, because with the Western campaign of quessaimoralistic 78 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:06.360 malignment of the Serbs during the civil war in Yugoslavia 79 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:10.879 boilth in Bosnia and in Kosto. Later I became not 80 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:15.759 only dissillusioned but utterly discussed it with the media machine 81 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:23.079 and accepted the post of informal and unofficial representative of 82 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:30.519 the Bosnian Serb Republic based in London, and also I 83 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:37.000 started writing very critical pieces, especially on the Hague Tribunal 84 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:43.399 more athletes would be called Inquisition, the International Tribunal for 85 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:48.759 the former Yugoslavia, and the farce known as the Strebnitzer genocide, 86 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:53.240 where if you have genocide at the level of a 87 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:57.519 municipality of twenty thousand people, then of course we are 88 00:06:57.680 --> 00:07:05.439 entering the grays zone of postmodern semantic games, which can 89 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:10.199 lead us anywhere. And in the late nineties I spent 90 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:14.720 some years, one year at the University of Saint Thomas 91 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:20.839 in Houston, Texas and two and a half the now 92 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:29.040 defunct rose Hill College in aken, South Carolina, which was 93 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:32.680 the first attempt and the only one so far as 94 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:38.920 to my knowledge, to start a great books college based 95 00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:44.319 on Orthodox faith. It was supposed to be broadly speaking, 96 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:50.079 the Orthodox censor to Saint Thomas, Aquinas, but it ran 97 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.519 out of steam due to lack of funds and mismanagement. 98 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:59.759 It's a sad story. And since ninety nine I've been 99 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:08.279 affairs editor of the Chronicles. It has been what twenty 100 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:13.279 seven years now, with two breaks In two thousand and 101 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:17.519 nine I took a year's break and last year two 102 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:21.800 thousand and five ten months break. But basically I provide 103 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:29.759 one editorial for the print edition, two page editorial of 104 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:33.639 about eighteen hundred words every month and two to three 105 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:41.000 online articles on the subjects of the day. Parallel bit 106 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:46.240 that I teach international relations at the University of Banyaluca, 107 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:49.799 which is the capital of the Republic of Srpska, the 108 00:08:49.879 --> 00:08:58.759 Serbian Republic in Bosnia Herzegovina, and currently I'm writing a 109 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:05.159 book called Space and Power. It's the working title which 110 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:10.200 looks at the entire human history through the prism of geopolitics, 111 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:15.759 primarily of the interaction between the spatial dimension of international 112 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:24.000 relations and the propensity of states in all times, culture, 113 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:30.480 civilizations and geographic spaces to use a force on the 114 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:33.600 threat or the threat of force as the primary means 115 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:40.559 of achieving their objectives. So that's a summary of it. 116 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:46.919 I spend most of my time now in the small 117 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:50.679 town of Petrovats on the Montenegrin coast of the Adriatic Sea, 118 00:09:51.559 --> 00:09:55.600 but I also divide my time between Belgrade Banie Luca, 119 00:09:55.840 --> 00:10:00.320 where I still teach postgraduates and Zurich, were my wife. 120 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:08.360 I still has business engagements. I travel a lot through Europe. 121 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:12.000 I visit the US on average once a year, but 122 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:18.320 in Europe I love traveling through Italy and France and 123 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:22.679 Spain primarily, but also very often to the Pannonia lands 124 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:29.879 of Hungary, Slovakia and southern Germany. Northern Germany doesn't interest me. 125 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:35.080 And also of course Holland, where I have two daughters, 126 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.960 one son in law and two granddaughters. And you mentioned 127 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:44.759 my son, he and his wife and their daughter in 128 00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:48.639 suburban Washington, d c. So I occasionally visit there too. 129 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:52.639 I'm a US citizen, but I'm dual citizen. I also 130 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:58.879 have Serbian passport and permanent residents in the United Kingdom. 131 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:02.960 So that's just about as far as I can go 132 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:06.080 with a disclosure of private interests. 133 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:11.159 Well fair enough. So your piece for Chronicles most recently 134 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:15.120 is titled the Tump the Trump Doctrine, and is sort 135 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:19.360 of comparing the foreign policy of the Trump administration to 136 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:23.919 the Monroe Doctrine. So two things. One, the Monroe doctrine 137 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:28.879 is a term that gets thrown around quite often. It 138 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:32.080 might be useful for my audience to define that what 139 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.720 was that historical doctrine, how does it apply to what 140 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:39.960 the Trump administration is doing? And then also, I imagine 141 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.559 a great deal has happened since you wrote that piece, Right, 142 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:45.879 there's a little bit of air gap between when you 143 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:47.679 send off a piece and when it appears in print. 144 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:50.639 So what do you make? And I realize I'm throwing 145 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:52.279 out a lot of questions at you all at once, 146 00:11:52.279 --> 00:11:54.480 but it is an interview show. What do you make 147 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:58.279 of both the actions in Venezuela and then also sort 148 00:11:58.279 --> 00:11:59.919 of saber rattling with Iran. 149 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:09.639 The main thing that makes the difference between Trump and 150 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:16.519 his predecessors is a cooling of relations with the European 151 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:22.000 Union and its key member countries. And I think it's 152 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:26.720 a very very good thing because if you look at 153 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:32.159 the National Security Strategy, which was revealed on December seventh 154 00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:37.519 of last year, even though about one half of that 155 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:42.240 thirty two page document is devoted to the Western hemisphere, 156 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:46.240 to my mind, the most important part is towards the end, 157 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:56.320 where it warns of the civilizational threat to Europe's survival 158 00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:02.759 if it's ruling elites continue what it terms and are 159 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:09.399 quoting from memory, cell defeating or suicidal immigration policies, excessive 160 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:16.559 censorship and deficit of democratic uh, and also attempts to 161 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:22.919 stifle sovereignist and patriotic anti immigration political parties such as 162 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:24.519 the Alternative for Germany. 163 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:26.080 It didn't Actually. 164 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:32.000 Every neighbor got deaf lavor? Did somebody say, see if 165 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:35.480 them kids? Nine three little words, it's dinner time? Head 166 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:38.039 sets down for some higher brow as the olgy we 167 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:42.080 all that smell have rig I think he's made a 168 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:45.759 new sun and tasty up and nine from the menu. 169 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:49.679 Rav whoever you are, whatever your flavor. 170 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:54.679 Every neighbor got their flavor. If somebody says. 171 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:00.320 A cecil, a steering contest, a high five. Some things 172 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:03.240 are hard to do on your own in business, becoming 173 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:06.519 more sustainable can be one of them. That's why Bank 174 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:10.399 of Ireland has introduced the Sustainable Business Coach. This free 175 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:14.120 digital platform gives you guidance, support and a practical plan 176 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:17.720 to help you take your next sustainability steps. To get 177 00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:23.799 started today, search Bank of Ireland Sustainable Business Coach. Bank 178 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:25.919 of Ireland is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. 179 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:30.000 Mentioned any of them, but it's obvious what they had 180 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:35.279 in mind. Well, Monroe Doctrine came into being in eighteen 181 00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:41.120 twenty three, at the time when the liberation of Spain's 182 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:48.159 colonies in Central and South America was fruitfully ended by Bolivar, 183 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:53.519 and when the United States was primarily interested in keeping 184 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:58.399 other European powers away from the Western Hemisphere from the Americas. 185 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:04.240 Primarily it was aimed at Great Britain, which was of 186 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:09.559 course the dominant global naval power at the time and 187 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:15.200 all the way until the Second World War. But at 188 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:20.240 that time the young American Republic was still relatively weak, 189 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:25.960 both militarily and economically, and it had limited means of 190 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:31.440 enforcing this until the period of manifest destiny at the 191 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:35.480 end of the nineteenth century, and of course the Spanish 192 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:38.559 American War of eighteen ninety eight, when the last two 193 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:43.919 Spanish possessions of Cuba and Puerto Rico came under US control. 194 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:51.840 The modern day reincarnation primarily has the objective of keeping 195 00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:58.919 other powers away not only in political and military terms, 196 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:03.600 which was the primary focus of the original, but also economic, 197 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:10.559 and this is primarily directed against China rather than Russia, 198 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:16.720 because even though Russia signed an agreement on strategic cooperation 199 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:20.600 with Venezuela in May of last year, and it was 200 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:26.519 ratified by the Russian Duma in October of last year. 201 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:32.919 It didn't move one little finger to and its protest 202 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:41.120 of Nadura's captures, shall we say restrained. It was utterly meaningless, 203 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:46.080 especially considering the fact that this was theoretically their strategic 204 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:50.639 partner in the Americas. And I think this is because 205 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.879 since Putin has always insisted on the need to recognize 206 00:16:55.879 --> 00:17:02.720 the legitimacy of spheres of interest, and obviously Russia sees 207 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.440 Ukraine as a sphere of interest as well as other 208 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:10.880 parts of it's near abroad in the former Soviet Union, 209 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:15.359 that in return, put In would be more than happy 210 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:18.799 to recognize Trump's own sphere of interest, which is of 211 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:24.200 course the Western Hemisphere. But Russian investment in Venezuela was 212 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:31.759 pretty minor anyway, even though they had this agreement and 213 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:42.960 and military extu even though they had this strategic agreement 214 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:47.559 and military cooperation which antedates this agreement, they had never 215 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:52.960 tried to build in Venezuela, for instance, an equivalent of 216 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:57.640 the naval base at Tartus in Syria, which was their 217 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:02.279 foothold in the Mediterranean. On the other hand, the Chinese 218 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:06.200 are present and have been present for about fifteen years 219 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:11.559 now with major infrastructure projects all over Central and South 220 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:17.680 America from the Panama Canal to especially in Brazil, but 221 00:18:17.799 --> 00:18:24.000 also in Venezuela. And I think that Trump's policy will 222 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:29.480 make some of these states look again at their cooperation 223 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:34.480 with China in the economic sphere, and that they will 224 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:40.680 probably think twice before signing fresh agreements, because it is 225 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:47.119 obvious that with the return to what can be described 226 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:54.359 as imperialist policy, imperialists in the nineteenth century sense, that 227 00:18:54.680 --> 00:19:00.000 Trump is determined to speeze the Chinese out from the hemisphere. 228 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:06.640 So what is refreshing is that his rhetoric is not 229 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:16.599 based on making Venezuela safe for democracy and LGBTQ community, 230 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:25.240 or for the recovery of human rights and establishment of 231 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:30.400 democratic credentials. He is talking about oil. He is talking 232 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:34.599 about US interests. He is talking about what one might 233 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:40.440 say HOBBSI and politics based on frankly, power relations and 234 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:46.079 reison detta, which is the French term which is loosely 235 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:52.079 translated as state reason, but fundamentally means the perception of 236 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:56.440 the decision maker of what is the national interest of 237 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:57.319 the given country. 238 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.160 Can you contrast this sort of new pragmatic or new 239 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:09.519 Hobbesian style of international relations, with the way that the 240 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:13.680 United States Empire interacted, for instance, with the Serbs. You 241 00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:15.839 mentioned that earlier in the late nineties as part of 242 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.640 the reason that you left sort of kosher discourse, if 243 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:23.119 you will, so, if you could, you describe one state 244 00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:25.920 versus the other and why that transformation is significant. 245 00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:33.359 I think it's highly significant because in the context of 246 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:40.759 policy which claims to be based on US exceptionalism, and 247 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:46.079 medleyne Olbright made a famous remark in the nineties when 248 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:50.480 she became Secretary of State and the Clinton we are America, 249 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:55.880 we stand taller, we see further, We are the indispensable mate. 250 00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:01.720 Almost equally famous is the that the death of half 251 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:05.240 a million Iraqis was the price well worth pay. But 252 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:12.720 it goes one with the other. Whenever you postulate a 253 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:20.000 moral principle as your guiding light, any form of compromise 254 00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:24.880 becomes very hard. It goes hand in hand with the 255 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:28.400 irrational belief in the right and wrong side of history, 256 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:33.400 and the rhetoric of the right side of history has 257 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:38.359 been a regular feature of the Obama years, unfortunately also of. 258 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:40.799 George W. 259 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:45.599 Bush Is. But after all that's the period when we 260 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:50.960 had the jelling of the neo conservative neoliberal duopoly, so 261 00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:56.000 that essentially there was very little difference in the assumptions 262 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:02.039 and in the character of foreign interventions between the Neo 263 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:09.039 Conservative dominated administrations of trade George W. Bush between two 264 00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:12.359 thousand and one and two thousand and nine and Obama 265 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:16.960 for the ensuing eight years. And in his first term, 266 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:23.200 Trump was hardly able to function because of catastrophic appointments 267 00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:28.119 of traders inside the gates which hindered him. And also 268 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:31.319 at that time I think he was still lacking the 269 00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:37.519 know how the Sabola fair, the ability to translate some 270 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:42.000 of still rudimentary ideas into concrete policies. 271 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:44.440 And then of course we had. 272 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:51.039 Four years of Team Biden, which really brought this rules 273 00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:56.200 based international order quote unquote, which means what I say 274 00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:02.839 is the order of the day, to almost rxism. It 275 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:06.839 was most visibly difficult, most visible in the way that 276 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:13.240 they cajoled Russia into attacking Ukraine, by turning Ukraine, by 277 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:20.480 weaponizing Ukraine into the factor anti Russia. When you claim 278 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:24.039 that your actions are not guided by self interest but 279 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:28.440 by some higher principle, that means that your enemy needs 280 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:34.279 to be demonized, because if it is communicated in terms 281 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:40.359 of right and wrong and good and evil, then every 282 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:47.319 enemy is reduced to Hitler Reduxia at Hitlererum applied at 283 00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:53.480 different times to Slavodamlosovitch in Serbia, to Saddam Hussein in Iraq, 284 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.799 and of course the blademic put In in the Kremlin 285 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:04.359 and the It is the international relations equivalent of the 286 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:10.160 domestic use of the term fascist, where everyone left disagrees 287 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:16.640 with becomes a fascist and the term ultimately becomes meaningless. 288 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:19.640 Of course, we can discuss at length if there is 289 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:23.599 irreducible core or what it means to be fascist, but 290 00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:29.920 most certainly neither the national socialists nor the European conservatives, 291 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:34.559 who want to stop uncontrollable immigration and who want to 292 00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:39.119 revive pride in their communities and their culture and legacy 293 00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:48.480 are not fascists. So in the nineties there was a 294 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:53.119 great deal of willingness on behalf of the Western powers, 295 00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:56.079 led by the United States and the Clinton at that time, 296 00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:02.359 to prove to the Islamic world that they are Muslim friendly, 297 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:09.880 which they thought would somehow compensate for the many decades 298 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:17.720 of uncritical and unreserved support of Israel, most notably after 299 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:21.400 the Sixt Year War in nineteen sixty seven, and so 300 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:27.079 the Bosnian Muslims were construed to be the pro Western 301 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:33.079 multicultural tolerance blah blah blah Muslims, the ones we can 302 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:39.440 work with, the ones we can treat as if necessary, 303 00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:42.880 an example for the reform of the Muslim world as 304 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:48.279 a whole in the direction of this collective West as 305 00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:51.519 it existed back in the nineties, and Sir were the 306 00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:56.279 victims of it. What is worse, they openly talked about 307 00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:02.480 preventing the establishment of an Islamic state in the heart 308 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:06.400 of the Bulkans, thinking that it would appeal to the 309 00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:12.200 Western is Exactly at the time when both the European 310 00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:16.880 Union in its postmas Strift period and the United States 311 00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:21.079 and the Clinton were moving rapidly in the post national 312 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:26.839 and the globalist direction, and especially in Europe, there was 313 00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:28.400 a determined push. 314 00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:32.680 Whatever you're working towards, a Volkswagen commercial vehicle is with 315 00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:35.319 you all the way. 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Visit Volkswagen bands dot for further information. 326 00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:11.279 If he makes mean a free guess, come at lardlas. 327 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:16.279 Okay bandymitrilas. 328 00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:22.480 Ten vol dolent to the foste tetro martunkar agand nicotine, 329 00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:26.599 a reinord agola agus very numero hoco is moshanskagashi at 330 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:29.960 the back an shine fresh and Martin taring and oil 331 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:34.799 rhine August lauerlo Enov find a fiery kiel nicotine to 332 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.680 a quarter HC punkai tall flash beeping on HC. 333 00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:44.440 With a series of agreements, the Shangan Agreement, Amsterdam Threat, 334 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:51.279 Lisbon threat away from national sovereignty and in the direction 335 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:56.720 of this construct where the European Union is supposed to 336 00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:02.119 be based on values and principles. Just as the exceptionalists 337 00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:06.200 in the US claimed that somehow the United States was 338 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:12.920 not really based on the legacy of European primarily West 339 00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:19.960 and Northwest European early settlers and British institutions, that it 340 00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:24.200 was somehow the shining city on the hill. So if 341 00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:27.599 Trump is going to overturn this, and at least with 342 00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:32.039 the NSS we have a promise that this might be 343 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:38.039 the case, then we may be witnessing the beginning of 344 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:44.359 a revolutionary change. And I insist that there is not 345 00:28:46.359 --> 00:28:51.960 a sign of equality between Trump and his globalist predecessors, 346 00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:58.160 even though I dislike foreign interventions, even though I think 347 00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:02.680 that US never interests is not visibly served by the 348 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:08.839 removal of Madura. There is a new intellectual and legal 349 00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:15.200 and propagandistic justification for this. It is returned to the 350 00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:20.799 old relations of amend nations based on power, on space 351 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:25.200 and resources, and that in itself is well come. If 352 00:29:25.279 --> 00:29:31.279 this also means that the European Union and the doors 353 00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:37.440 such as Chancellor Mertz and President Macron, and outside the 354 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:42.559 EU the Labor Prime Minister in London will be left 355 00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:45.799 to their own devices, and the US will no longer 356 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:52.279 be part of this experiment in self annihilation that done 357 00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:58.079 so much better. I am not a trumpion. I'm simply 358 00:29:58.119 --> 00:30:03.960 trying to evaluate his impact on America's position in the 359 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:09.200 world and America's policies on the basis of the results 360 00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.960 of his actions. As the Bible says, you'll know them 361 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:15.920 by the fruits and in the fullness of time. If 362 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:20.319 this means that power politics is back, at least it 363 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:24.119 will be easier for other powers, primarily China and Russia, 364 00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:29.400 to negotiate with the US on the basis of clearly 365 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:34.759 defined interests and not some nebulous values. Because if your 366 00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:39.799 objective is to make the Red Square safe for Pride parades, 367 00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:44.440 then there is nothing to negotiate. If you start with 368 00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:51.119 the assumption that Russia needs to fundamentally change its character, 369 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:54.599 or that it would be preferable for Russia to be 370 00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:58.279 democratic if it were to disintegrate it into twelve or 371 00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:02.920 twenty entities, as suggested by the lads big new Ruzhinski, 372 00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:06.599 then of course, again there is nothing to negotiate if 373 00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:13.240 you start lambasting the Chinese, as Anthony Blincoln did a 374 00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:18.519 Tnchorage four years ago over the treatment of Wigurs and 375 00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:23.680 democracy movement in Hong Kong. Then again, there is nothing 376 00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:29.680 to negotiate with Trump in the White House. I think 377 00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:37.079 that the return to the kind of predictability of international 378 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:40.920 relations in the context of a global balance of power 379 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:47.880 system will be both safer for the world and surprisingly 380 00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:55.079 more morally sustainable, because moral absolutism of the globalist neo 381 00:31:55.160 --> 00:32:01.839 con neolib clique is in fact deeply more and hypocritical, 382 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:07.160 as well as dangerous and laden with the possibility for 383 00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:14.160 uncontrollable escalations. 384 00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:16.759 Several things there. What is your retort Because many people 385 00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:20.759 who I consider sort of compatriots, right, people pulling in 386 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.799 roughly the same direction, are out and out anti war. 387 00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:28.480 They view war as illegitimate they do they view any 388 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:34.839 sort of aggressive foreign policies on its face immoral and wrong. 389 00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:40.000 And many of them are reacting to this pivot to 390 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:46.119 sort of focusing on the hemisphere, which is hysterics. They're 391 00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:51.160 absolutely beside themselves because it is not full isolationism. And 392 00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:54.559 these are people I consider friends, Scott Horton, a few others. 393 00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:58.480 So what is your response to that position? The true isolationists, 394 00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:06.799 the true Because you could say anti war, I guess base, Well. 395 00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:09.839 Some wars have to be fought, but we really need 396 00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:18.799 to start with some clarity. In theoretical terms, conflict is 397 00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:26.480 imminent to human nature, and the use of force or 398 00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:32.680 threat of the use of force is present in all 399 00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:39.559 eras and all geographic spaces, all cultures and all civilizations. 400 00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:47.079 From the Sumerians and Heatites, and the Mesopotamian hydraulic states, 401 00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:56.039