1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,480
Speaker 1: Why do sail ads have to be so over the top.

2
00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,599
Why can't they be more relaxed, more like the air

3
00:00:07,719 --> 00:00:11,560
Lingus January Sale. Sure, great savings on flights to Europe

4
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,560
and North America are worth shouting about, but that wouldn't

5
00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,239
be very air Lingus, would it. Sale ends twentieth of January.

6
00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:19,960
Book now at airlingus dot com.

7
00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,320
Speaker 2: My daughter Ellie had this ankle pain. We went to

8
00:00:23,359 --> 00:00:26,719
see VGI Orthopedics that they actually picked up on her

9
00:00:26,719 --> 00:00:31,160
fatigue issues, so they brought in a rheumatologists and just

10
00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:34,439
a few small tests, they realized that Ellie was sediac.

11
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,359
So what was brilliant was that VGI had a pediatric

12
00:00:38,399 --> 00:00:41,119
dietitian ready to help manage her diet.

13
00:00:43,039 --> 00:00:48,000
Speaker 3: Really felt shameless, VGI, because your health means.

14
00:00:47,759 --> 00:00:59,920
Speaker 4: Everything on the go, NonStop gym sessions, deadlines, homework with ava,

15
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:06,439
more soups, comforting, flavorful taste, It all just hmmm, with

16
00:01:06,519 --> 00:01:09,879
a range of different flavors. We've been perfecting soup for

17
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,519
over thirty years, so you can have a moment of

18
00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:19,439
delicious pleasure. So whatever it is, soup it with Avon.

19
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:24,920
Speaker 5: Moore meaning a live man like this man you letting

20
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,680
butterfly flapping his wing. Dig down in the forest, man,

21
00:01:27,719 --> 00:01:30,959
it gonna cause the tree fall, letting five thousand miles away.

22
00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:39,200
Speaker 6: Man, nobody, see nobody. You don't need no man.

23
00:01:39,359 --> 00:01:41,920
Speaker 5: Don't they plug you with a little story?

24
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,319
Speaker 7: And you got like to like that. That's the point.

25
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:46,760
Speaker 5: Man, don't black it down on the pane right now.

26
00:01:46,799 --> 00:01:47,920
Speaker 7: You don't don't matter.

27
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:48,680
Speaker 5: Man.

28
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:58,280
Speaker 8: Okay, all right, mister Chris Fish, welcome to the Jay

29
00:01:58,280 --> 00:01:59,319
Burton Show. How are you doing.

30
00:01:59,799 --> 00:02:02,000
Speaker 9: I'm very well and I'm glad to be with you.

31
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,480
Speaker 8: So I know your son. We have some friends in common,

32
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,240
but I had not been exposed to your work until

33
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,759
you wrote an article in the most recent edition of Chronicles.

34
00:02:14,039 --> 00:02:16,000
Quite good. I'll have it linked on the description for

35
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,840
those interested. But if you could before we get into

36
00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,719
your article, could you describe who you are and what

37
00:02:21,759 --> 00:02:22,199
you do.

38
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,280
Speaker 9: Well. I am seventy one. I was born in Belgrade

39
00:02:29,439 --> 00:02:36,599
in Tito's heyday. My primary and secondary education was in Yugoslavia.

40
00:02:37,759 --> 00:02:42,520
It was good quality education because, believe it turned up,

41
00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:48,639
even though Tito's brand of communism was not typical real

42
00:02:48,719 --> 00:02:52,240
socialism of the Soviet type, it was still pretty oppressive.

43
00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:57,400
But education was good unless of course it dealt with

44
00:02:57,479 --> 00:03:01,840
things like sociology and political economy, and in that case

45
00:03:01,879 --> 00:03:07,000
you had to parrot the platitudes and ideological cliche days.

46
00:03:07,719 --> 00:03:11,759
But I had always been interested in world affairs, and

47
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:20,319
so after the grammar school and the fifteen months army service,

48
00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,039
I went to England to study international relations at the

49
00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:29,400
University of Sussex. At that time, fees for foreign students

50
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:34,960
were still quite low, and my family could afford it.

51
00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:39,719
But also I wanted to live in the West because

52
00:03:39,759 --> 00:03:45,120
at that time I was actually younger, naive and pro Western,

53
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:51,159
because frankly, Tito's culture personality always got onto my nerves,

54
00:03:51,919 --> 00:03:57,560
and I believed that all that the West came to represent,

55
00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:04,039
as conveyed in the movies, popular literature, and of course

56
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:11,319
goods such as genes and electronics, had a certain magnetism

57
00:04:12,039 --> 00:04:14,680
that was quite strong at the time. I must say.

58
00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:21,000
Also in nineteen seventy two, I was seventeen eighteen at

59
00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:25,199
the time, when I spent some months first in France

60
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,800
then in England, I really decided that I didn't want

61
00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:34,839
to live in what used to be Yugoslavia, that this

62
00:04:35,079 --> 00:04:39,279
was much more dynamic, much more interesting part of the world.

63
00:04:39,519 --> 00:04:47,079
And much more promising, both professionally and material So I

64
00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,959
started my Western career as a radio journalist with the

65
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,199
BBC World Service, both in what used to be the

66
00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,920
Yugoslav Service at the time and later in the news

67
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,399
room and talks and features department, moving to the Voice

68
00:05:04,439 --> 00:05:08,199
of America, where he stayed only very briefly in eighty

69
00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:16,120
six eighty seven. It was a very bureaucratic and stifling organization,

70
00:05:17,319 --> 00:05:22,519
and then I became a freelancer reporting from Belgrade for

71
00:05:23,079 --> 00:05:27,360
US News and World Report eighty nine to ninety one.

72
00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,079
It was the time of Yugoslavia's gradual disintegration and slide

73
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:37,160
into civil war, and in ninety one ninety two I

74
00:05:37,199 --> 00:05:42,319
spent a year as a postdoctoral researcher at the Hoover

75
00:05:42,439 --> 00:05:47,040
Institution at Stanford on a State Department grant. And that

76
00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:52,199
was my swan song, as shall we say, kosher member

77
00:05:52,800 --> 00:06:01,279
of the establishment, because with the Western campaign of quessaimoralistic

78
00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,360
malignment of the Serbs during the civil war in Yugoslavia

79
00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:10,879
boilth in Bosnia and in Kosto. Later I became not

80
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,759
only dissillusioned but utterly discussed it with the media machine

81
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:23,079
and accepted the post of informal and unofficial representative of

82
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:30,519
the Bosnian Serb Republic based in London, and also I

83
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:37,000
started writing very critical pieces, especially on the Hague Tribunal

84
00:06:38,199 --> 00:06:43,399
more athletes would be called Inquisition, the International Tribunal for

85
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:48,759
the former Yugoslavia, and the farce known as the Strebnitzer genocide,

86
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,240
where if you have genocide at the level of a

87
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,519
municipality of twenty thousand people, then of course we are

88
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:05,439
entering the grays zone of postmodern semantic games, which can

89
00:07:05,519 --> 00:07:10,199
lead us anywhere. And in the late nineties I spent

90
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:14,720
some years, one year at the University of Saint Thomas

91
00:07:14,759 --> 00:07:20,839
in Houston, Texas and two and a half the now

92
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:29,040
defunct rose Hill College in aken, South Carolina, which was

93
00:07:29,079 --> 00:07:32,680
the first attempt and the only one so far as

94
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:38,920
to my knowledge, to start a great books college based

95
00:07:38,959 --> 00:07:44,319
on Orthodox faith. It was supposed to be broadly speaking,

96
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:50,079
the Orthodox censor to Saint Thomas, Aquinas, but it ran

97
00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,519
out of steam due to lack of funds and mismanagement.

98
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,759
It's a sad story. And since ninety nine I've been

99
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:08,279
affairs editor of the Chronicles. It has been what twenty

100
00:08:08,319 --> 00:08:13,279
seven years now, with two breaks In two thousand and

101
00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,519
nine I took a year's break and last year two

102
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,800
thousand and five ten months break. But basically I provide

103
00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:29,759
one editorial for the print edition, two page editorial of

104
00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,639
about eighteen hundred words every month and two to three

105
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:41,000
online articles on the subjects of the day. Parallel bit

106
00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:46,240
that I teach international relations at the University of Banyaluca,

107
00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,799
which is the capital of the Republic of Srpska, the

108
00:08:49,879 --> 00:08:58,759
Serbian Republic in Bosnia Herzegovina, and currently I'm writing a

109
00:08:58,759 --> 00:09:05,159
book called Space and Power. It's the working title which

110
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:10,200
looks at the entire human history through the prism of geopolitics,

111
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:15,759
primarily of the interaction between the spatial dimension of international

112
00:09:15,799 --> 00:09:24,000
relations and the propensity of states in all times, culture,

113
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:30,480
civilizations and geographic spaces to use a force on the

114
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,600
threat or the threat of force as the primary means

115
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:40,559
of achieving their objectives. So that's a summary of it.

116
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,919
I spend most of my time now in the small

117
00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,679
town of Petrovats on the Montenegrin coast of the Adriatic Sea,

118
00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,600
but I also divide my time between Belgrade Banie Luca,

119
00:09:55,840 --> 00:10:00,320
where I still teach postgraduates and Zurich, were my wife.

120
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:08,360
I still has business engagements. I travel a lot through Europe.

121
00:10:08,879 --> 00:10:12,000
I visit the US on average once a year, but

122
00:10:12,799 --> 00:10:18,320
in Europe I love traveling through Italy and France and

123
00:10:18,519 --> 00:10:22,679
Spain primarily, but also very often to the Pannonia lands

124
00:10:22,799 --> 00:10:29,879
of Hungary, Slovakia and southern Germany. Northern Germany doesn't interest me.

125
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:35,080
And also of course Holland, where I have two daughters,

126
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,960
one son in law and two granddaughters. And you mentioned

127
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:44,759
my son, he and his wife and their daughter in

128
00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,639
suburban Washington, d c. So I occasionally visit there too.

129
00:10:49,279 --> 00:10:52,639
I'm a US citizen, but I'm dual citizen. I also

130
00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:58,879
have Serbian passport and permanent residents in the United Kingdom.

131
00:10:59,399 --> 00:11:02,960
So that's just about as far as I can go

132
00:11:03,039 --> 00:11:06,080
with a disclosure of private interests.

133
00:11:06,879 --> 00:11:11,159
Speaker 8: Well fair enough. So your piece for Chronicles most recently

134
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,120
is titled the Tump the Trump Doctrine, and is sort

135
00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,360
of comparing the foreign policy of the Trump administration to

136
00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,919
the Monroe Doctrine. So two things. One, the Monroe doctrine

137
00:11:24,159 --> 00:11:28,879
is a term that gets thrown around quite often. It

138
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,080
might be useful for my audience to define that what

139
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,720
was that historical doctrine, how does it apply to what

140
00:11:35,759 --> 00:11:39,960
the Trump administration is doing? And then also, I imagine

141
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,559
a great deal has happened since you wrote that piece, Right,

142
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,879
there's a little bit of air gap between when you

143
00:11:45,919 --> 00:11:47,679
send off a piece and when it appears in print.

144
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,639
So what do you make? And I realize I'm throwing

145
00:11:50,639 --> 00:11:52,279
out a lot of questions at you all at once,

146
00:11:52,279 --> 00:11:54,480
but it is an interview show. What do you make

147
00:11:54,519 --> 00:11:58,279
of both the actions in Venezuela and then also sort

148
00:11:58,279 --> 00:11:59,919
of saber rattling with Iran.

149
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:09,639
Speaker 9: The main thing that makes the difference between Trump and

150
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:16,519
his predecessors is a cooling of relations with the European

151
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:22,000
Union and its key member countries. And I think it's

152
00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:26,720
a very very good thing because if you look at

153
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,159
the National Security Strategy, which was revealed on December seventh

154
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:37,519
of last year, even though about one half of that

155
00:12:37,879 --> 00:12:42,240
thirty two page document is devoted to the Western hemisphere,

156
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,240
to my mind, the most important part is towards the end,

157
00:12:47,399 --> 00:12:56,320
where it warns of the civilizational threat to Europe's survival

158
00:12:57,279 --> 00:13:02,759
if it's ruling elites continue what it terms and are

159
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:09,399
quoting from memory, cell defeating or suicidal immigration policies, excessive

160
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:16,559
censorship and deficit of democratic uh, and also attempts to

161
00:13:16,639 --> 00:13:22,919
stifle sovereignist and patriotic anti immigration political parties such as

162
00:13:23,039 --> 00:13:24,519
the Alternative for Germany.

163
00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:26,080
Speaker 7: It didn't Actually.

164
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:32,000
Speaker 6: Every neighbor got deaf lavor? Did somebody say, see if

165
00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,480
them kids? Nine three little words, it's dinner time? Head

166
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,039
sets down for some higher brow as the olgy we

167
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,080
all that smell have rig I think he's made a

168
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,759
new sun and tasty up and nine from the menu.

169
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,679
Speaker 10: Rav whoever you are, whatever your flavor.

170
00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:54,679
Speaker 6: Every neighbor got their flavor. If somebody says.

171
00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,320
Speaker 10: A cecil, a steering contest, a high five. Some things

172
00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:03,240
are hard to do on your own in business, becoming

173
00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:06,519
more sustainable can be one of them. That's why Bank

174
00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:10,399
of Ireland has introduced the Sustainable Business Coach. This free

175
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,120
digital platform gives you guidance, support and a practical plan

176
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,720
to help you take your next sustainability steps. To get

177
00:14:17,799 --> 00:14:23,799
started today, search Bank of Ireland Sustainable Business Coach. Bank

178
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,919
of Ireland is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

179
00:14:26,279 --> 00:14:30,000
Speaker 9: Mentioned any of them, but it's obvious what they had

180
00:14:30,039 --> 00:14:35,279
in mind. Well, Monroe Doctrine came into being in eighteen

181
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:41,120
twenty three, at the time when the liberation of Spain's

182
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:48,159
colonies in Central and South America was fruitfully ended by Bolivar,

183
00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:53,519
and when the United States was primarily interested in keeping

184
00:14:53,679 --> 00:14:58,399
other European powers away from the Western Hemisphere from the Americas.

185
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:04,240
Primarily it was aimed at Great Britain, which was of

186
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:09,559
course the dominant global naval power at the time and

187
00:15:09,759 --> 00:15:15,200
all the way until the Second World War. But at

188
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:20,240
that time the young American Republic was still relatively weak,

189
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,960
both militarily and economically, and it had limited means of

190
00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:31,440
enforcing this until the period of manifest destiny at the

191
00:15:31,559 --> 00:15:35,480
end of the nineteenth century, and of course the Spanish

192
00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:38,559
American War of eighteen ninety eight, when the last two

193
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,919
Spanish possessions of Cuba and Puerto Rico came under US control.

194
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:51,840
The modern day reincarnation primarily has the objective of keeping

195
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,919
other powers away not only in political and military terms,

196
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,600
which was the primary focus of the original, but also economic,

197
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:10,559
and this is primarily directed against China rather than Russia,

198
00:16:10,879 --> 00:16:16,720
because even though Russia signed an agreement on strategic cooperation

199
00:16:16,879 --> 00:16:20,600
with Venezuela in May of last year, and it was

200
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:26,519
ratified by the Russian Duma in October of last year.

201
00:16:27,639 --> 00:16:32,919
It didn't move one little finger to and its protest

202
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:41,120
of Nadura's captures, shall we say restrained. It was utterly meaningless,

203
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:46,080
especially considering the fact that this was theoretically their strategic

204
00:16:46,159 --> 00:16:50,639
partner in the Americas. And I think this is because

205
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,879
since Putin has always insisted on the need to recognize

206
00:16:55,879 --> 00:17:02,720
the legitimacy of spheres of interest, and obviously Russia sees

207
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,440
Ukraine as a sphere of interest as well as other

208
00:17:06,559 --> 00:17:10,880
parts of it's near abroad in the former Soviet Union,

209
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,359
that in return, put In would be more than happy

210
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,799
to recognize Trump's own sphere of interest, which is of

211
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:24,200
course the Western Hemisphere. But Russian investment in Venezuela was

212
00:17:24,279 --> 00:17:31,759
pretty minor anyway, even though they had this agreement and

213
00:17:31,759 --> 00:17:42,960
and military extu even though they had this strategic agreement

214
00:17:43,039 --> 00:17:47,559
and military cooperation which antedates this agreement, they had never

215
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,960
tried to build in Venezuela, for instance, an equivalent of

216
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,640
the naval base at Tartus in Syria, which was their

217
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:02,279
foothold in the Mediterranean. On the other hand, the Chinese

218
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:06,200
are present and have been present for about fifteen years

219
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:11,559
now with major infrastructure projects all over Central and South

220
00:18:11,599 --> 00:18:17,680
America from the Panama Canal to especially in Brazil, but

221
00:18:17,799 --> 00:18:24,000
also in Venezuela. And I think that Trump's policy will

222
00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:29,480
make some of these states look again at their cooperation

223
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,480
with China in the economic sphere, and that they will

224
00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:40,680
probably think twice before signing fresh agreements, because it is

225
00:18:40,759 --> 00:18:47,119
obvious that with the return to what can be described

226
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:54,359
as imperialist policy, imperialists in the nineteenth century sense, that

227
00:18:54,680 --> 00:19:00,000
Trump is determined to speeze the Chinese out from the hemisphere.

228
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:06,640
So what is refreshing is that his rhetoric is not

229
00:19:06,799 --> 00:19:16,599
based on making Venezuela safe for democracy and LGBTQ community,

230
00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:25,240
or for the recovery of human rights and establishment of

231
00:19:26,079 --> 00:19:30,400
democratic credentials. He is talking about oil. He is talking

232
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,599
about US interests. He is talking about what one might

233
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:40,440
say HOBBSI and politics based on frankly, power relations and

234
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,079
reison detta, which is the French term which is loosely

235
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:52,079
translated as state reason, but fundamentally means the perception of

236
00:19:52,279 --> 00:19:56,440
the decision maker of what is the national interest of

237
00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:57,319
the given country.

238
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,160
Speaker 8: Can you contrast this sort of new pragmatic or new

239
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:09,519
Hobbesian style of international relations, with the way that the

240
00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:13,680
United States Empire interacted, for instance, with the Serbs. You

241
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,839
mentioned that earlier in the late nineties as part of

242
00:20:15,839 --> 00:20:19,640
the reason that you left sort of kosher discourse, if

243
00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,119
you will, so, if you could, you describe one state

244
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,920
versus the other and why that transformation is significant.

245
00:20:27,039 --> 00:20:33,359
Speaker 9: I think it's highly significant because in the context of

246
00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:40,759
policy which claims to be based on US exceptionalism, and

247
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:46,079
medleyne Olbright made a famous remark in the nineties when

248
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,480
she became Secretary of State and the Clinton we are America,

249
00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:55,880
we stand taller, we see further, We are the indispensable mate.

250
00:20:58,279 --> 00:21:01,720
Almost equally famous is the that the death of half

251
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,240
a million Iraqis was the price well worth pay. But

252
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:12,720
it goes one with the other. Whenever you postulate a

253
00:21:12,839 --> 00:21:20,000
moral principle as your guiding light, any form of compromise

254
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,880
becomes very hard. It goes hand in hand with the

255
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,400
irrational belief in the right and wrong side of history,

256
00:21:29,079 --> 00:21:33,400
and the rhetoric of the right side of history has

257
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,359
been a regular feature of the Obama years, unfortunately also of.

258
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:40,799
Speaker 7: George W.

259
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,599
Speaker 9: Bush Is. But after all that's the period when we

260
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:50,960
had the jelling of the neo conservative neoliberal duopoly, so

261
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:56,000
that essentially there was very little difference in the assumptions

262
00:21:56,319 --> 00:22:02,039
and in the character of foreign interventions between the Neo

263
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:09,039
Conservative dominated administrations of trade George W. Bush between two

264
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:12,359
thousand and one and two thousand and nine and Obama

265
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,960
for the ensuing eight years. And in his first term,

266
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:23,200
Trump was hardly able to function because of catastrophic appointments

267
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:28,119
of traders inside the gates which hindered him. And also

268
00:22:28,519 --> 00:22:31,319
at that time I think he was still lacking the

269
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:37,519
know how the Sabola fair, the ability to translate some

270
00:22:37,559 --> 00:22:42,000
of still rudimentary ideas into concrete policies.

271
00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:44,440
Speaker 7: And then of course we had.

272
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:51,039
Speaker 9: Four years of Team Biden, which really brought this rules

273
00:22:51,079 --> 00:22:56,200
based international order quote unquote, which means what I say

274
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:02,839
is the order of the day, to almost rxism. It

275
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,839
was most visibly difficult, most visible in the way that

276
00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:13,240
they cajoled Russia into attacking Ukraine, by turning Ukraine, by

277
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:20,480
weaponizing Ukraine into the factor anti Russia. When you claim

278
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,039
that your actions are not guided by self interest but

279
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,440
by some higher principle, that means that your enemy needs

280
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:34,279
to be demonized, because if it is communicated in terms

281
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:40,359
of right and wrong and good and evil, then every

282
00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:47,319
enemy is reduced to Hitler Reduxia at Hitlererum applied at

283
00:23:47,319 --> 00:23:53,480
different times to Slavodamlosovitch in Serbia, to Saddam Hussein in Iraq,

284
00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:56,799
and of course the blademic put In in the Kremlin

285
00:23:57,799 --> 00:24:04,359
and the It is the international relations equivalent of the

286
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:10,160
domestic use of the term fascist, where everyone left disagrees

287
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:16,640
with becomes a fascist and the term ultimately becomes meaningless.

288
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:19,640
Of course, we can discuss at length if there is

289
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,599
irreducible core or what it means to be fascist, but

290
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:29,920
most certainly neither the national socialists nor the European conservatives,

291
00:24:30,039 --> 00:24:34,559
who want to stop uncontrollable immigration and who want to

292
00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:39,119
revive pride in their communities and their culture and legacy

293
00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:48,480
are not fascists. So in the nineties there was a

294
00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:53,119
great deal of willingness on behalf of the Western powers,

295
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,079
led by the United States and the Clinton at that time,

296
00:24:56,839 --> 00:25:02,359
to prove to the Islamic world that they are Muslim friendly,

297
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:09,880
which they thought would somehow compensate for the many decades

298
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:17,720
of uncritical and unreserved support of Israel, most notably after

299
00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:21,400
the Sixt Year War in nineteen sixty seven, and so

300
00:25:22,839 --> 00:25:27,079
the Bosnian Muslims were construed to be the pro Western

301
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:33,079
multicultural tolerance blah blah blah Muslims, the ones we can

302
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:39,440
work with, the ones we can treat as if necessary,

303
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:42,880
an example for the reform of the Muslim world as

304
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:48,279
a whole in the direction of this collective West as

305
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,519
it existed back in the nineties, and Sir were the

306
00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:56,279
victims of it. What is worse, they openly talked about

307
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,480
preventing the establishment of an Islamic state in the heart

308
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:06,400
of the Bulkans, thinking that it would appeal to the

309
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:12,200
Western is Exactly at the time when both the European

310
00:26:12,319 --> 00:26:16,880
Union in its postmas Strift period and the United States

311
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,079
and the Clinton were moving rapidly in the post national

312
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,839
and the globalist direction, and especially in Europe, there was

313
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:28,400
a determined push.

314
00:26:28,839 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 11: Whatever you're working towards, a Volkswagen commercial vehicle is with

315
00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:35,319
you all the way. It might be the crafter or

316
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,680
transporter for carrying tools and the drive that goes with them,

317
00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:41,559
the caddy, cargo or amarok for when the job and

318
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,680
the journey matter equally or the id Buzz cargo to

319
00:26:44,759 --> 00:26:48,319
get excited for the future, then benefit from HP finance

320
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,119
from zero percent and purchase contributions up to three thousand europe.

321
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:57,160
Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles Space for Needs and Dreams. Terms and

322
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,759
conditions apply. Finance provided by way of hire, purchase agreement

323
00:26:59,799 --> 00:27:02,759
from Lkswagen Financial Services Ireland and subject in any criteria.

324
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:05,680
Volkswagen Financial Services Areland Limited is regulated by the Central

325
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,720
Bank of Ireland. Visit Volkswagen bands dot for further information.

326
00:27:08,839 --> 00:27:11,279
Speaker 12: If he makes mean a free guess, come at lardlas.

327
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,279
Speaker 9: Okay bandymitrilas.

328
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 13: Ten vol dolent to the foste tetro martunkar agand nicotine,

329
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,599
a reinord agola agus very numero hoco is moshanskagashi at

330
00:27:26,599 --> 00:27:29,960
the back an shine fresh and Martin taring and oil

331
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:34,799
rhine August lauerlo Enov find a fiery kiel nicotine to

332
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,680
a quarter HC punkai tall flash beeping on HC.

333
00:27:39,319 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 9: With a series of agreements, the Shangan Agreement, Amsterdam Threat,

334
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:51,279
Lisbon threat away from national sovereignty and in the direction

335
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:56,720
of this construct where the European Union is supposed to

336
00:27:56,759 --> 00:28:02,119
be based on values and principles. Just as the exceptionalists

337
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,200
in the US claimed that somehow the United States was

338
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:12,920
not really based on the legacy of European primarily West

339
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:19,960
and Northwest European early settlers and British institutions, that it

340
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,200
was somehow the shining city on the hill. So if

341
00:28:24,279 --> 00:28:27,599
Trump is going to overturn this, and at least with

342
00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:32,039
the NSS we have a promise that this might be

343
00:28:32,079 --> 00:28:38,039
the case, then we may be witnessing the beginning of

344
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:44,359
a revolutionary change. And I insist that there is not

345
00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:51,960
a sign of equality between Trump and his globalist predecessors,

346
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,160
even though I dislike foreign interventions, even though I think

347
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:02,680
that US never interests is not visibly served by the

348
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:08,839
removal of Madura. There is a new intellectual and legal

349
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:15,200
and propagandistic justification for this. It is returned to the

350
00:29:15,319 --> 00:29:20,799
old relations of amend nations based on power, on space

351
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:25,200
and resources, and that in itself is well come. If

352
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:31,279
this also means that the European Union and the doors

353
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:37,440
such as Chancellor Mertz and President Macron, and outside the

354
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,559
EU the Labor Prime Minister in London will be left

355
00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:45,799
to their own devices, and the US will no longer

356
00:29:45,839 --> 00:29:52,279
be part of this experiment in self annihilation that done

357
00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:58,079
so much better. I am not a trumpion. I'm simply

358
00:29:58,119 --> 00:30:03,960
trying to evaluate his impact on America's position in the

359
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:09,200
world and America's policies on the basis of the results

360
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,960
of his actions. As the Bible says, you'll know them

361
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,920
by the fruits and in the fullness of time. If

362
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,319
this means that power politics is back, at least it

363
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,119
will be easier for other powers, primarily China and Russia,

364
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,400
to negotiate with the US on the basis of clearly

365
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:34,759
defined interests and not some nebulous values. Because if your

366
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:39,799
objective is to make the Red Square safe for Pride parades,

367
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,440
then there is nothing to negotiate. If you start with

368
00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:51,119
the assumption that Russia needs to fundamentally change its character,

369
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,599
or that it would be preferable for Russia to be

370
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,279
democratic if it were to disintegrate it into twelve or

371
00:30:58,319 --> 00:31:02,920
twenty entities, as suggested by the lads big new Ruzhinski,

372
00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:06,599
then of course, again there is nothing to negotiate if

373
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:13,240
you start lambasting the Chinese, as Anthony Blincoln did a

374
00:31:13,359 --> 00:31:18,519
Tnchorage four years ago over the treatment of Wigurs and

375
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,680
democracy movement in Hong Kong. Then again, there is nothing

376
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:29,680
to negotiate with Trump in the White House. I think

377
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:37,079
that the return to the kind of predictability of international

378
00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:40,920
relations in the context of a global balance of power

379
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:47,880
system will be both safer for the world and surprisingly

380
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:55,079
more morally sustainable, because moral absolutism of the globalist neo

381
00:31:55,160 --> 00:32:01,839
con neolib clique is in fact deeply more and hypocritical,

382
00:32:02,319 --> 00:32:07,160
as well as dangerous and laden with the possibility for

383
00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:14,160
uncontrollable escalations.

384
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:16,759
Speaker 8: Several things there. What is your retort Because many people

385
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,759
who I consider sort of compatriots, right, people pulling in

386
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,799
roughly the same direction, are out and out anti war.

387
00:32:25,119 --> 00:32:28,480
They view war as illegitimate they do they view any

388
00:32:28,519 --> 00:32:34,839
sort of aggressive foreign policies on its face immoral and wrong.

389
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,000
And many of them are reacting to this pivot to

390
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,119
sort of focusing on the hemisphere, which is hysterics. They're

391
00:32:46,119 --> 00:32:51,160
absolutely beside themselves because it is not full isolationism. And

392
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,559
these are people I consider friends, Scott Horton, a few others.

393
00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:58,480
So what is your response to that position? The true isolationists,

394
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:06,799
the true Because you could say anti war, I guess base, Well.

395
00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:09,839
Speaker 9: Some wars have to be fought, but we really need

396
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:18,799
to start with some clarity. In theoretical terms, conflict is

397
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:26,480
imminent to human nature, and the use of force or

398
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:32,680
threat of the use of force is present in all

399
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:39,559
eras and all geographic spaces, all cultures and all civilizations.

400
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:47,079
From the Sumerians and Heatites, and the Mesopotamian hydraulic states,

401
00:33:47,319 --> 00:33:56,039
the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Egyptians onwards, we have certain

402
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:03,119
regularities which absolutely determined relations between states. The first true

403
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:09,360
historian as well as theoretician of geopolitics, even though geopolitics

404
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,760
is term, only came into being in nineteen hundred. The

405
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:20,559
historian of the Polar Permission War, to Kiddidis gave us

406
00:34:21,519 --> 00:34:26,920
the famous definition of the conflict between Athens and Sparta.

407
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:32,119
The rise of Sparta and the fear that this created

408
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:37,000
sorry the rise of Athens as maritime trading empire, and

409
00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:41,159
the fear of Sparta that its position would be jeopardized,

410
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:44,360
and the desire to preserve the set of scroll made

411
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,800
the war inevitable. Now, he did not mention the fact

412
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:54,440
that Athens was a democracy and Sparta was an aristocracy,

413
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,679
because he DMed it irrelevant and the deed it is

414
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:07,960
the notion that domestic order somehow determines or justifies the

415
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:13,079
posture of a country in world relations is simply not true.

416
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:20,119
It's not supported by evidence. But what we have in

417
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:22,880
the case of the Roman Republic, for instance, is the

418
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:28,159
Punic War against the Cartoginians, who are the descendants of

419
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:33,760
Phoenicians who colonize North Africa and the Iberian Peninsula. It

420
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:39,559
was the struggle of central Mediterranean, the space between Tunisia,

421
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,840
Sicily and Calabria. It was really a matter of who

422
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:53,440
gets home. There was nothing ideological, nothing ontological about it.

423
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,480
It was geopolitics, plain and simple. Only one of those

424
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:04,599
two stay would emerge victorious. It was not a conflict

425
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:09,280
amenable to compromise. It was an existential conflict, and the

426
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:15,519
victorious power simply destroyed the losers to the point of

427
00:36:16,519 --> 00:36:22,000
raising their capital and plowing it with salt, so that

428
00:36:22,639 --> 00:36:24,079
even memory of it is.

429
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 7: Erased.

430
00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:33,119
Speaker 9: Similar situations have risen ever since, and I would only

431
00:36:33,159 --> 00:36:38,880
mention that in the modern era, after the Piece of

432
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,400
Asphalia of sixteen forty eight, which ended the Thirty Year War,

433
00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:46,440
we have an interesting period in Europe. It's the period

434
00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:50,480
of the classical balance of power. System, and it was

435
00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:56,159
the system that provided Europe with a long period of

436
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:01,199
relative stability, which was only interrupted in a major way

437
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:09,800
by the French Revolutionary Wars, and by Napoleon's seventeen years

438
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:15,519
of meteodic rise and then sudden fall after his Russian adventure,

439
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,800
and then again in eighteen fifteen at the Congress of Vienna,

440
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:25,119
the balance of power system was renewed and provided Europe

441
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:29,599
with another ninety nine years of relative peace, when it

442
00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:38,519
flourished into arguably the most successful, both scientifically, technologically and

443
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:45,000
artistically richest, and the most brilliant civilization known to mankind.

444
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:51,920
So I do believe that both the bipolar world of

445
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:55,400
the Cold War and the monopolar moment of the post

446
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:01,679
Cold War American global dominance were temporary aberrations, and that

447
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:06,400
in the long term, some form of balance of power system,

448
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,480
and we do have emerging multipolarity that is obvious, is

449
00:38:11,559 --> 00:38:22,159
both as I said, politically more manageable and philosophically more

450
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:28,320
logical and morally more sustainable. Of course, this is anathema

451
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:36,960
to globalists and exceptionalists of all colors, but their refusal

452
00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:43,000
to acknowledge the emerging multipolarity was in fact probably the

453
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:48,280
most destabilizing and the most dangerous element in the foreign

454
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:53,800
policy mix of the old bipartisan Washington establishment, because the

455
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:59,800
refusal to accept reality and the insistence to persevere in

456
00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:05,920
trying to continue with full spectrum dominance was in fact

457
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,480
the most stabilizing and the most dangerous strategy that the

458
00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:12,480
United States would possibly devise.

459
00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:17,679
Speaker 8: The fly in the ointment, and you've already mentioned this

460
00:39:18,159 --> 00:39:23,079
is our relationship to the State of Israel, both in

461
00:39:23,159 --> 00:39:26,320
the who is the first mover in that relationship? Obviously

462
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:30,159
you have reports coming out about Operation Midnight Hammer, some

463
00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:34,280
sources claiming that mister Netahu made the decision and then

464
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,679
informed us and we were forced to react. But how

465
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:44,360
does a generalized pivot towards the hemisphere interact with our

466
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:49,599
stated or actual obligations to this Middle Eastern democracy.

467
00:39:50,639 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 12: When does exceptional design stop and true art begin? Perhaps

468
00:39:55,559 --> 00:39:59,960
when it moves you Coopra. We're bold design, smarter technol

469
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,239
and pure performance come together in perfect harmony. It's why

470
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,119
we're one of Arland's fastest growing car brands with a

471
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,440
range of advanced petrol, diesel, plug in hybrid and all

472
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,440
electric models. Explore our latest offers, including the Coopra five

473
00:40:14,519 --> 00:40:19,079
year warranty at Coopra Official dot Ie Coopra design that

474
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,639
moves Ugh.

475
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: January Yes, Sky January Sale time. What It's great You

476
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:27,519
get Sky TV with exclusive shows like a Knight of

477
00:40:27,519 --> 00:40:29,960
the Seven Kingdoms, Love a Man in Armor, Netflix with

478
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,400
The Stranger Things Finale and super liable Sky Broadband paring

479
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,880
it all SkyTV, Netflix and Sky Broadband YEP forty four

480
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,679
year own month for twelve months in the Sky January sale.

481
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,519
Speaker 5: I love January.

482
00:40:41,159 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 3: Search, skysale availability subj the to location New customers only

483
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:46,639
twelve month minimum terms TV and broadband cells every all

484
00:40:46,639 --> 00:40:49,599
content available by January nineteen. Terms of life more embosskyt

485
00:40:49,599 --> 00:40:50,760
e slash speeds.

486
00:40:51,039 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 9: Well, First of all, there are now real obligations and

487
00:40:56,039 --> 00:41:05,199
the myths of our Anshynco aircraft carrier being the reliable

488
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:11,079
and essential and the existentially important ally is just that

489
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,559
a myth. Now. Who can blame the Israelis for wanting

490
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:26,559
to keep Washington completely committed to their defense and the

491
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,199
Apollosia for whatever policies they conduct in the region. But

492
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:37,199
oddly enough, ironically, even this is the one area where

493
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:44,159
both Israelis and Arabs agree that they both want the

494
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:49,159
United States to remain committed to the Middle East, and

495
00:41:50,079 --> 00:41:53,960
I think that the best answer to that is that

496
00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:01,800
the region has no longer any tangible, vital interests to

497
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,280
the United States, and I was encouraged that in the

498
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:12,000
National Strategic Document issue last month this is actually stated

499
00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:17,559
point when that with the diversification of energy sources, the

500
00:42:17,679 --> 00:42:20,480
United States does not have the same degree of interest

501
00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:24,679
in the Middle East as before. Now, de mythologizing the

502
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,960
relationshipship with Israel is both possible and necessary, and it

503
00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:37,360
is unfortunate that so far we still have this curious,

504
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,159
passionate attachment in the White House, which is at odds

505
00:42:43,639 --> 00:42:48,719
with MAGA assumptions and also at todds with what one

506
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:56,960
might term foreign national interest guided foreign policy. Demutologization, however,

507
00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:03,079
must not veer into the kind of leftist moral condemnation

508
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:10,239
for its own sake, which is both irrational and hypocritical,

509
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,360
because at the same time it is completely intervious to

510
00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:18,280
the condemnation of the Islamic world for its treatment of

511
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:27,400
Christians and for its general dysfunctionality and its inability to

512
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:35,159
create either sustainable and viable economies or productive and harmonious societies.

513
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:41,599
So In answer to your question, I think that perfect

514
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:50,480
detachment from the region with equidistant attitude to both parties,

515
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:58,519
especially when they use mythological or religious arguments in support

516
00:43:58,639 --> 00:44:03,440
of their aims, is the way to go. For instance,

517
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:10,480
it's a regular feature of the Israeli discourse to claim

518
00:44:10,599 --> 00:44:15,559
that there is the biblical basis for Judea and Samaria

519
00:44:15,679 --> 00:44:19,519
as they call them to belong to them. And at

520
00:44:19,679 --> 00:44:23,159
same time, on the Muslim side, and this is less

521
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:30,519
known any part of the Umma, the collective community of

522
00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:34,239
the Muslim faithful, which used to be under the Muslim

523
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:41,000
control and then falls to infidel must never be recognized

524
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:47,960
as legitimately theirs. And that's why the late Yasser Arafat

525
00:44:48,039 --> 00:44:50,639
in the end refused to sign the Camp David deal

526
00:44:51,079 --> 00:44:55,480
offered by Clinton in December two thousand, which was the

527
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,360
best off of the Palestinians had ever got since nineteen

528
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:06,199
forty seven eight, because he couldn't bring himself to sign

529
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:11,280
something that would have permanent character. In the Muslim world,

530
00:45:11,599 --> 00:45:16,639
everything is based upon analogy with the early period of

531
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:22,920
Muslim expansion and in the lifetime of Muhammad and his

532
00:45:23,079 --> 00:45:26,719
first four successes as they called him the Four rightly

533
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:34,599
guided halifs, and Muhammad signed or agreed to a temporary

534
00:45:34,639 --> 00:45:40,840
truce with Mecca, which he later violated. And this model

535
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,320
of temporary truths has been present in the period of

536
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:51,000
the Ottoman Empire's decline in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

537
00:45:51,639 --> 00:45:56,000
But the Ottomans never gave up on the hope, however

538
00:45:56,119 --> 00:45:59,639
unrealistic at that time of returning to Some of that

539
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,599
was sessions in the Balkans and around the Black Sea,

540
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,400
so that in Arabic, for instance, Spain is still known

541
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:16,079
as al Andalus, and in Turkish Serbia is still Serbistan

542
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:24,800
and Montenegris Karadag. So biblical claims of the Israelis for

543
00:46:25,199 --> 00:46:29,639
are at Israel from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean Sea,

544
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:34,679
and the Muslim claims to the return of the Uma

545
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,599
and the world of faith dar al Islam from the

546
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:44,960
world of war. These claims should be simply ignored by

547
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:50,599
the United States, regarded as quaint, as anthropologically interesting, but

548
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,440
totally irrelevant to the American interests. And of course, in

549
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,599
that context the problem we have is with Christian Zionists.

550
00:46:58,599 --> 00:47:03,679
But I think it is a community declining in both

551
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:08,920
size and influence. Mercifully because they are difficult people to

552
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,679
deal with in rastural terms.

553
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,159
Speaker 8: Well to that point, and you mentioned de mythologizing, I

554
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,079
realized this is somewhat outside of the scope of our conversation.

555
00:47:20,159 --> 00:47:23,679
I promise I'll bring it back around to international relations.

556
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,920
But the rapid de mythologization of both the State of

557
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:33,840
Israel and of to talk around it a certain prominent

558
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,400
twentieth century event which is responsible for much of our

559
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:43,079
attitudes towards Israel. That's been incredibly rapid. And look, as

560
00:47:43,119 --> 00:47:46,760
a young person in a heavily Protestant area, I see

561
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,880
this transformation very interestingly. It is very much a generational divide.

562
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,480
Obviously baby boomers get the worst rap there's maybe some

563
00:47:55,679 --> 00:47:59,000
to that as regards Zionism, but even once you get

564
00:47:59,039 --> 00:48:02,679
down really halfway through Generation X into millennials, it is

565
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:07,559
at best a certain indifference, if not kind of harsher

566
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:10,559
attitudes towards the State of Israel. Conversation for another day,

567
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,719
but I want to return to the subject of Iran.

568
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:20,000
We mentioned Operation Midnight Hammer, which was targeting their nuclear program,

569
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,320
but also it seems as if there is and it's

570
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,880
very hard to get data out for any number of reasons.

571
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:28,800
But it seems as if there is a color revolution

572
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,440
in the offing currently going on in Iran. What do

573
00:48:32,519 --> 00:48:37,199
you make of our relationship to the Islamic Republic? How

574
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:41,800
does that, I guess, mesh with your your previous analysis.

575
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 9: I would put Iran in the same context of the

576
00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:54,920
Israeli Arab conflict in our previous segment. Let us keep

577
00:48:55,119 --> 00:48:58,920
away from it because no much of what it does

578
00:48:59,599 --> 00:49:05,719
visa its Arab neighbors in the Golf or Israel, will

579
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:10,800
affect the United States In the slightest degree. Iran is

580
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,880
not a threat to either the United States or US

581
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:19,320
interests in the region. Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself.

582
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,519
It has nuclear weapons, It has the military that, as

583
00:49:24,559 --> 00:49:28,960
we've seen time and over again ever since the nineteen

584
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:35,679
forty seven forty eight War, is superior to any coalition

585
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,679
that its real or potential enemies can put together against it,

586
00:49:41,199 --> 00:49:45,039
let alone Iran by itself, which is of course viewed

587
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:49,960
with grad deal of suspicion or worse by the Sunni

588
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:56,320
Arab monarchies in the Golf. It is also ridden with

589
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:04,199
domestic discontent and we an economic crisis which makes its

590
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,800
infrastructure barely functional. So I think it would be completely

591
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:13,760
absurd to regard Iran as either a threat or as

592
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,400
a potential, let alone real target for the repeat of

593
00:50:17,519 --> 00:50:22,360
this lamentable episode from last summer, which I think shook

594
00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:25,960
Trump's base pretty badly, and if it were to happen again,

595
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,960
I think the whole Marga edifice might start showing cracks

596
00:50:31,559 --> 00:50:36,840
equivalent to those that domestically were created with the mismanagement

597
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,400
of the Epstein affair.

598
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 8: Well, thank you so much, mister Trivivick. This was very interesting.

599
00:50:43,639 --> 00:50:46,280
If people are interested in you and your work, I

600
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:51,360
know you've mentioned your routine appearances in Chronicles. You've also

601
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,119
written a popular book. Where can people find that?

602
00:50:56,079 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 9: Well, the sort of the profit which I still be

603
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:03,000
leave is not because I've written.

604
00:51:02,639 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 14: It, but probably the most readable summary of what Islam

605
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:14,880
is really all about, including its doctrine and its historical record.

606
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:21,199
Speaker 9: Unfortunately, it can only be found secondhand on Amazon dot

607
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:25,480
com because Regina Wanted Express, the publisher has gone out

608
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,880
of business, but my current output can be found on

609
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:36,400
Chronicles website Chronicles Magazine dot org. I also have Substa

610
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:44,760
Trifkovic dot substec dot com and as for and by

611
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,599
the way, my substanct articles often deal with little known

612
00:51:49,679 --> 00:51:56,800
aspects of Balkan history as well as world affairs. And finally,

613
00:51:57,199 --> 00:52:02,960
for those who speak Serbia or Creation or other post

614
00:52:03,039 --> 00:52:08,320
Yugoslav languages, Bosnia and Montenegrin, you name it. On YouTube,

615
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:14,480
they can find my many appearances on local TV and

616
00:52:14,679 --> 00:52:22,000
podcasts in Southeast Europe. I'm afraid we've only touched on

617
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:26,800
so many issues that are yet to be covered, so

618
00:52:27,599 --> 00:52:29,639
I hope in the fullness of time we will have

619
00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:31,320
an opportunity to talk again.

620
00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:36,760
Speaker 8: Well, definitely, this was incredibly educational, and I enjoy having

621
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:41,880
returning guests, especially those who have actual expertise on a topic, because,

622
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,119
as you can probably tell by my inability to pronounce

623
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,519
your last name or really any word that isn't in

624
00:52:48,599 --> 00:52:51,840
the King James Bible, I'm sorely uneducated on the topic,

625
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:53,920
and so we'll have to have you on again again.

626
00:52:54,079 --> 00:52:55,920
It was great speaking to you and everyone at home.

627
00:52:56,159 --> 00:52:57,920
Keep your head up. I can't last forever.

628
00:52:58,039 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 7: Good night, God bless.

629
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:35,599
Speaker 13: Most do Maho founderd fiber Arrator must mean la Emmert

630
00:53:36,039 --> 00:53:39,199
Yard of the Kree has been with differdy and of

631
00:53:39,519 --> 00:53:45,760
Labartish Fibilinis far is to a gear her kin must

632
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,440
mean that too, Sorry the Winters, the Ridge Skillinger, Concured

633
00:53:50,199 --> 00:53:58,159
Post and it's the Raim Space. It's killing a sula

634
00:53:58,440 --> 00:53:59,280
or public jobs.

635
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:00,119
Speaker 2: Punk you