WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.480
<v Speaker 1>We're outside the Travel Agency, a cannabis store that's got

2
00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:04.200
<v Speaker 1>everyone buzz them.

3
00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:06.240
<v Speaker 2>I've been to dispensers all over the United States, but

4
00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:08.320
<v Speaker 2>I've never seen one this unique, so.

5
00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:11.560
<v Speaker 3>Nice, amazing vibe, some of the best customer service I've

6
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:12.199
<v Speaker 3>had in a store.

7
00:00:12.279 --> 00:00:13.759
<v Speaker 4>Blows my expectations out of the water.

8
00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Come down to the Travel Agency and see for yourself.

9
00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:17.719
<v Speaker 1>For use only by adults age twenty one an older.

10
00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:19.440
<v Speaker 1>Keep out of breach of children and pets. In case

11
00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:22.280
<v Speaker 1>of accellent ingestion or over consumption, contact the National Poison

12
00:00:22.280 --> 00:00:23.879
<v Speaker 1>Control Center Consumer spots.

13
00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:27.640
<v Speaker 3>It is Ryan here, and I have a question for you.

14
00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:29.839
<v Speaker 3>What do you do when you win?

15
00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Like?

16
00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:33.479
<v Speaker 3>Are you a fist pumper, a wooo, a handclapp or

17
00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:35.320
<v Speaker 3>a high fiver. I kind of like the high five.

18
00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:37.119
<v Speaker 3>But if you want to hone in on those winning moves,

19
00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:40.359
<v Speaker 3>check out Chumbuck Casino at chumbacasino dot com choose some

20
00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:43.119
<v Speaker 3>hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to

21
00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:46.920
<v Speaker 3>redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly,

22
00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:49.880
<v Speaker 3>plus free daily bonuses. So don't wait start having the

23
00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:52.640
<v Speaker 3>most fun ever at Chumbuck Casino dot com.

24
00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:54.640
<v Speaker 5>No, we're just necessary day Ripoid wherever if I lost

25
00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:56.799
<v Speaker 5>the terms conditions eighteen plus? Have you got more debt

26
00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:59.200
<v Speaker 5>than you can handle? Are you confused by all of

27
00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:01.719
<v Speaker 5>the ads that promised to help you become debt free?

28
00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:04.959
<v Speaker 5>Who can you trust? I'm Doug Hoys of Hoysmichaelis Licensed

29
00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:08.599
<v Speaker 5>Insolvency Trustees. We've help thousands of people just like you

30
00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:12.079
<v Speaker 5>eliminate their debt. Many have posted reviews and testimonials about

31
00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:13.359
<v Speaker 5>our people and our service.

32
00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:14.280
<v Speaker 6>Check us out.

33
00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:17.079
<v Speaker 5>Helping people deal with their debt is all that we do.

34
00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.120
<v Speaker 5>No tricks, no gimmicks. We get the job done. Give

35
00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:22.319
<v Speaker 5>us a call at three ten plan or visit Hoys

36
00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:25.599
<v Speaker 5>dot com. That's h O yes dot com and let's

37
00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:26.159
<v Speaker 5>get started.

38
00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:36.760
<v Speaker 6>You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking

39
00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:39.879
<v Speaker 6>killers in true crime history and the authors that have

40
00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:46.040
<v Speaker 6>written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker VTK

41
00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:50.760
<v Speaker 6>every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking

42
00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:54.959
<v Speaker 6>and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with

43
00:01:55.079 --> 00:02:08.360
<v Speaker 6>your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. Serial

44
00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:12.360
<v Speaker 6>Slaughter is the story of the infamous Zodiac Killer, the

45
00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:16.960
<v Speaker 6>killer Rome California, especially Northern California, for decades, he announced

46
00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:20.439
<v Speaker 6>himself for dramatic flair, corresponding with law enforcement in the

47
00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:23.759
<v Speaker 6>media in order to gain the attention he craved. This

48
00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:26.800
<v Speaker 6>is the Zodiac speaking, and this is the murderer of

49
00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:29.479
<v Speaker 6>the two teenagers last Christmas at Lake Kerman and the

50
00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:32.400
<v Speaker 6>girl on the fourth of July, making sure they knew

51
00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:36.159
<v Speaker 6>his kills, connecting the dots for them. Fading away as

52
00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:39.639
<v Speaker 6>promised in nineteen sixty nine, he continued to kill and

53
00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:43.120
<v Speaker 6>ceased to help those who would hunt him. Details now

54
00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:47.919
<v Speaker 6>included are new. The crimes are looked at, thoroughly researched, investigated,

55
00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:51.000
<v Speaker 6>and written about with a new perspective, great new finds

56
00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.759
<v Speaker 6>of information. At last, to add to the story, the

57
00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:56.280
<v Speaker 6>cases of murdered women and girls are brought back to

58
00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:59.360
<v Speaker 6>the surface as the author works to bring attention once

59
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:01.919
<v Speaker 6>again to their cases. A book that we're featuring this

60
00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:05.599
<v Speaker 6>evening is Serial Flauters Zodiac Killer, with my special guest

61
00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:08.759
<v Speaker 6>journalist and author and Penn. Welcome to the program and

62
00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:10.960
<v Speaker 6>thank you for this interview, and Penn.

63
00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:12.360
<v Speaker 2>Hi Dan, thank you for having me.

64
00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.400
<v Speaker 6>Thank you so much. An incredible story and incredible timing

65
00:03:17.479 --> 00:03:20.479
<v Speaker 6>for this, especially in light of just a recent post

66
00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:25.159
<v Speaker 6>on Facebook regarding a certain Gary post and the claim

67
00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:30.680
<v Speaker 6>that the Zodiac was finally named. Let's talk about how

68
00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:34.400
<v Speaker 6>you first became involved with this, why you wanted to

69
00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:37.280
<v Speaker 6>tell this story, and what this story is really about.

70
00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:41.919
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's just further research, deeper dive into what is

71
00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:46.120
<v Speaker 2>out there to be found about the Statisica Killer. There's

72
00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:48.439
<v Speaker 2>just so many murders in the state of California. Being

73
00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:52.919
<v Speaker 2>California native, it's important to solve cold cases.

74
00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:55.240
<v Speaker 6>You say that you have to go back to the beginning.

75
00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:58.039
<v Speaker 6>You say there was more than one serial killer roaming

76
00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:01.759
<v Speaker 6>California in the sixties and the seventies, and you want

77
00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:05.000
<v Speaker 6>to answer the question what happened to the Zodiac killer?

78
00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:07.919
<v Speaker 6>And you say, in what in reality, what could be

79
00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.240
<v Speaker 6>true about what happened? So that was your goal and

80
00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:14.719
<v Speaker 6>that's your intent of this book. You say that in

81
00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:18.360
<v Speaker 6>nineteen sixty nine that there was more than what happened

82
00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:22.040
<v Speaker 6>with the Zodiac. After sixty nine, people say he walked away,

83
00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:25.319
<v Speaker 6>and you say he just walked away from aspects of

84
00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:26.839
<v Speaker 6>the Zodiac persona.

85
00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:29.959
<v Speaker 2>Correct, he continued to kill the Psychi said he would,

86
00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:32.879
<v Speaker 2>and he did go too far away to do it.

87
00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:38.160
<v Speaker 2>And many a serial killer when it comes to how

88
00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:42.720
<v Speaker 2>he drove into areas and committed crimes and drove out.

89
00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.120
<v Speaker 2>And that's what he did at Zodiac. As we know

90
00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:49.360
<v Speaker 2>anybody that's familiar with the story. Each kill was usually

91
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:52.079
<v Speaker 2>during a weekend or a holiday, and he would just

92
00:04:52.360 --> 00:04:54.759
<v Speaker 2>decide that he was going to do this particular kill

93
00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.399
<v Speaker 2>after he'd talked to someone most likely, and drive off.

94
00:04:57.879 --> 00:05:01.639
<v Speaker 2>And that's what he did over and over and it

95
00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:03.959
<v Speaker 2>was almost like a testing ground for him for that

96
00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:04.480
<v Speaker 2>one year.

97
00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:07.040
<v Speaker 6>Yes, you say that he said, I shall no longer

98
00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:09.600
<v Speaker 6>announced anyone when I commit my murders. They show look

99
00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:13.079
<v Speaker 6>like routine robbery's killings of anger and a few fake accidents,

100
00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:16.040
<v Speaker 6>et cetera. Early in this book you talk about some

101
00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:19.000
<v Speaker 6>of the evidence that you've on Earth in terms of

102
00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:22.600
<v Speaker 6>you say that the Zodiac was an avid reader and

103
00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:26.319
<v Speaker 6>would read newspapers. Tell us what you found in your

104
00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:30.120
<v Speaker 6>theory about articles and him reading articles and then his

105
00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:31.000
<v Speaker 6>list right.

106
00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:35.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, what it looks like in researching in depth is

107
00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.600
<v Speaker 2>that one of the things we know that he did

108
00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:40.759
<v Speaker 2>was like to get media attention law enforcement, and he

109
00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:44.959
<v Speaker 2>liked to have not only his information posted in the newspapers,

110
00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.519
<v Speaker 2>but he wanted to see what he could find out

111
00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.040
<v Speaker 2>about his crimes and what they said about him. And

112
00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:52.959
<v Speaker 2>you know, he was a media hog, and so what

113
00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:55.800
<v Speaker 2>he did he was absolutely addicted, in my opinion, to

114
00:05:55.959 --> 00:06:00.079
<v Speaker 2>reading the newspaper. And when I researched further into to

115
00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.639
<v Speaker 2>different people who were murdered over time from nineteen sixty

116
00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:07.800
<v Speaker 2>nine moving forward, what it looks like happened from the

117
00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:11.240
<v Speaker 2>research was that if someone was on his list, like

118
00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:15.000
<v Speaker 2>for example, there's a Leona Roberts who was murdered, and

119
00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:18.759
<v Speaker 2>she had had her announcement in the newspaper for getting married,

120
00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:22.759
<v Speaker 2>and it looks really suspicious that here a few months

121
00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:25.399
<v Speaker 2>later she's murdered. And this is in December of nineteen

122
00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:28.519
<v Speaker 2>sixty nine. And so there were lots of different things

123
00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:31.759
<v Speaker 2>that happened over time where there were murders decade after

124
00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:34.519
<v Speaker 2>decade where if you look back and you go, Okay,

125
00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:37.839
<v Speaker 2>what happened prior to this person being murdered. Were they

126
00:06:37.839 --> 00:06:40.199
<v Speaker 2>in the newspaper a lot? Did they get a lot

127
00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:43.920
<v Speaker 2>of attention? What is the connection? And so that's what

128
00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:47.360
<v Speaker 2>I went after in many many of these murders that

129
00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.439
<v Speaker 2>happened over time in different areas, and a lot of

130
00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:54.040
<v Speaker 2>those are around the Sacramento area, and interestingly enough, it

131
00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:56.800
<v Speaker 2>appears that there were a lot of times where law

132
00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:59.759
<v Speaker 2>enforcement would talk amongst themselves and even mentioned it in

133
00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:02.879
<v Speaker 2>the new newspaper that maybe these murders were the Zodiac

134
00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:03.920
<v Speaker 2>in Sacramento.

135
00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:08.360
<v Speaker 6>Right. You talk about these crimes in California, and you

136
00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:10.560
<v Speaker 6>talk about the crime wave that was happening in the

137
00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.959
<v Speaker 6>sixties and seventies regarding rape and murder, you say that

138
00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:16.600
<v Speaker 6>there was a lot of rapes and murders, but there

139
00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:20.160
<v Speaker 6>was a lot of similarities in a lot of the

140
00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:22.399
<v Speaker 6>rapes and murders that were never solved.

141
00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, what it shows is there was a serial killer.

142
00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:28.920
<v Speaker 2>There was more than one. Of course, there were several

143
00:07:28.959 --> 00:07:32.759
<v Speaker 2>actually during the eighties in particular, but there were others

144
00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:36.680
<v Speaker 2>out there killing people and picking up hitchhikers and dumping

145
00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:39.600
<v Speaker 2>bodies and so on. But what the pattern around Sacramento

146
00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:43.720
<v Speaker 2>looked like was that there were murder after murder where

147
00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:47.199
<v Speaker 2>women were picked up and dumped right across the county

148
00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:50.639
<v Speaker 2>line from Sacramento County into Sutter County, for example. There

149
00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:52.800
<v Speaker 2>were so many of them that were picked up in

150
00:07:52.839 --> 00:07:56.720
<v Speaker 2>the North Highlands area and driven right across into less

151
00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.399
<v Speaker 2>than miles and dumps in that same area. And this

152
00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:03.040
<v Speaker 2>also went decade after decade, and there were just so

153
00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:06.439
<v Speaker 2>many of them. It's amazing to me that the task

154
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.639
<v Speaker 2>force wasn't put together in a very serious way to

155
00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:13.639
<v Speaker 2>figure out who was doing this, because what it appeared

156
00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:17.079
<v Speaker 2>was not only did the detectives talk about what it

157
00:08:17.160 --> 00:08:20.279
<v Speaker 2>might be and that eventually Donna Last might be connected

158
00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:23.399
<v Speaker 2>to the Takari murder, and did the Vnole murder and

159
00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:25.800
<v Speaker 2>so on, they would talk about it, and then nothing

160
00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:28.240
<v Speaker 2>would come of it. They just wandered off and didn't

161
00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:29.199
<v Speaker 2>talk about it anymore.

162
00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:33.159
<v Speaker 6>In the news, you talk about the descriptions of Zodiac

163
00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:36.679
<v Speaker 6>as well, what were you What does your investigation on

164
00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:39.320
<v Speaker 6>Earth about the conflicting descriptions.

165
00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, composites are pretty awful. You can't really tell.

166
00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:45.960
<v Speaker 2>But back in the nineteen sixties I have a chapter

167
00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:49.919
<v Speaker 2>about just composites. Every guy in the world looked just

168
00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:53.080
<v Speaker 2>like Zodiac with their glasses and their crew cut hair

169
00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:55.840
<v Speaker 2>and so on. And it's really kind of funny. But

170
00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:59.320
<v Speaker 2>some of the descriptions that came about from some of

171
00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:02.799
<v Speaker 2>the victims, actually we're pretty close to composites that were

172
00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:06.799
<v Speaker 2>drawn later on about another serial killer, and they were

173
00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:09.639
<v Speaker 2>pretty close. And these are again from the victims like

174
00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.279
<v Speaker 2>Mike Majeu and then also from Cecilia Shepherd. So one

175
00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:17.399
<v Speaker 2>of the things that Mike talked about or identified as

176
00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:22.519
<v Speaker 2>the perpetrator eventually was Arthur. And what's interesting about the

177
00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:24.879
<v Speaker 2>way Arthur looked at the time, and I have pictures

178
00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:28.080
<v Speaker 2>of what he looked like, is how similar he looked

179
00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:31.120
<v Speaker 2>to another serial killer that would know of and that

180
00:09:31.279 --> 00:09:35.279
<v Speaker 2>he identified. But then also we know that the witnesses

181
00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:38.039
<v Speaker 2>to the paul Stein murder didn't think he looked like

182
00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:41.759
<v Speaker 2>Arthur at all. They said, no, that's not him. But

183
00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:45.639
<v Speaker 2>Robert Graysmith did not interview them because that would have

184
00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:49.240
<v Speaker 2>changed his story and his narrative. So it's all interesting

185
00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:51.120
<v Speaker 2>how it all sort of crisscrossed.

186
00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:56.039
<v Speaker 6>You talk about this paul Stein being very important murder,

187
00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:00.720
<v Speaker 6>and also that Robert Graysmith fictionalized one aspect of it,

188
00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.440
<v Speaker 6>at least in terms of that it was a foggy,

189
00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.559
<v Speaker 6>misty night, which would prevent or inhibit witnesses from getting

190
00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:10.159
<v Speaker 6>a good look at the perpetrator. But you say that

191
00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:13.480
<v Speaker 6>in fact that maybe police should have relied on those

192
00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:16.159
<v Speaker 6>descriptions more so. Oh yeah, for sure explained.

193
00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:19.399
<v Speaker 2>What's interesting about the composite that came from the actual

194
00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:23.720
<v Speaker 2>witnesses of the Stein murder is that they saw him

195
00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:26.320
<v Speaker 2>in really good light. It wasn't foggy internesty, and it

196
00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:28.519
<v Speaker 2>was it was right below their window, really and there

197
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:30.440
<v Speaker 2>was a lot of light. He had the door opened

198
00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:34.159
<v Speaker 2>to the cab. What's interesting about who they saw was

199
00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:38.120
<v Speaker 2>originally they described him as the younger version of himself.

200
00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:40.039
<v Speaker 2>I think it was twenty eight to thirty or twenty

201
00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.559
<v Speaker 2>five to thirty, and later on when the police put

202
00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:46.840
<v Speaker 2>out posters and composits, they ended up revising that and

203
00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:50.519
<v Speaker 2>making him older somewhere more around forty five, and that

204
00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:54.000
<v Speaker 2>was their narrative. And I didn't understand why that was so,

205
00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:57.440
<v Speaker 2>because the actual witnesses saw him and he was the

206
00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:59.559
<v Speaker 2>younger version. That would be about the right age. He

207
00:10:59.639 --> 00:11:02.279
<v Speaker 2>was probably around twenty four at the time, right, The

208
00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:04.759
<v Speaker 2>guy with the that they just tried to identify a

209
00:11:04.759 --> 00:11:06.639
<v Speaker 2>week or so ago, and it was like, oh, look,

210
00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:09.120
<v Speaker 2>he has the same lines in his forehead as the composite,

211
00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:11.240
<v Speaker 2>so what you know.

212
00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:15.600
<v Speaker 6>So yeah, let's just briefly touch on that, not to

213
00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:18.080
<v Speaker 6>give it too much credence. But for those people that

214
00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:21.600
<v Speaker 6>didn't see the follow up story that has uh it

215
00:11:21.639 --> 00:11:24.840
<v Speaker 6>had looked like it had some potential because of the headlines,

216
00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:27.639
<v Speaker 6>but in reality, there's not much to this at all.

217
00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:28.519
<v Speaker 6>To Gary, I.

218
00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Had people contact, Yeah, I have people contacting and asked me, Hey,

219
00:11:32.200 --> 00:11:34.679
<v Speaker 2>what's the story, And I said, it's not him, it's

220
00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:36.559
<v Speaker 2>not real, it's not it's you know. And a few

221
00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.360
<v Speaker 2>days later, the FBI came along and there's an article

222
00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:42.000
<v Speaker 2>on the paper that said that they did not give

223
00:11:42.039 --> 00:11:45.799
<v Speaker 2>any credence to that id either. And the thing that

224
00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.320
<v Speaker 2>you know, immediately stood out to me, Well, there were

225
00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:52.039
<v Speaker 2>a couple of things. One was the discussion about Cherry

226
00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:56.039
<v Speaker 2>Jobates and the Zodiac did not kill Cherry Jobates. And

227
00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:58.759
<v Speaker 2>if you know it in the articles, the Riverside PD

228
00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:01.519
<v Speaker 2>didn't even talk to me these guys. It appears it

229
00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.480
<v Speaker 2>sounded like they really didn't want to discuss that case.

230
00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:06.440
<v Speaker 2>And of course they didn't want to be in aid

231
00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:09.039
<v Speaker 2>a test and so on. And the reason is because

232
00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:12.240
<v Speaker 2>the Riverside already has a full profile of Scherry Joe

233
00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Bates killer. They've had it for years and years. They

234
00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:17.559
<v Speaker 2>feed it into code. Is it's not him? It's not

235
00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:20.759
<v Speaker 2>the Zodiac. It's a completely different killer. The story just

236
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:22.799
<v Speaker 2>took on a life of its own and it's remained

237
00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:24.720
<v Speaker 2>there all these years. So that's the first thing that

238
00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:26.960
<v Speaker 2>was wrong with the story that came out with these

239
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.600
<v Speaker 2>guys that said they idd them. They don't even realize

240
00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:33.000
<v Speaker 2>that Cherry Joe Bates was not killed by Zodiac. And

241
00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:35.159
<v Speaker 2>the second thing had to do with a story about

242
00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.679
<v Speaker 2>Donna Last hanging from a tree and trying to find

243
00:12:38.679 --> 00:12:41.200
<v Speaker 2>her in the forest. That just this seems too far

244
00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:45.080
<v Speaker 2>fetched to me, because I've actually talked to the detectives

245
00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:47.679
<v Speaker 2>up here in the Tahoe I say, up here in

246
00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:50.600
<v Speaker 2>the mountains in the Tahoe area. I've spoken to him

247
00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:53.080
<v Speaker 2>and made him pull out all the files and all

248
00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:57.039
<v Speaker 2>the microfilm, and unfortunately a lot of these files are

249
00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:00.519
<v Speaker 2>so old. They mentioned that the birds got into files

250
00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:02.679
<v Speaker 2>or something happened to him, and they had to pull

251
00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:06.159
<v Speaker 2>reports for microfish for me, and the story is not

252
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:07.159
<v Speaker 2>like what they tell.

253
00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:10.679
<v Speaker 6>Let's get to your idea of what happened to the

254
00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:14.360
<v Speaker 6>Zodiac after nineteen sixty nine, after supposedly police and the

255
00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:17.879
<v Speaker 6>media believed that he had walked away, but he had

256
00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:22.039
<v Speaker 6>made this promise. So how did authorities approach that promise

257
00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:25.480
<v Speaker 6>and what did you find in terms of what you

258
00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:29.000
<v Speaker 6>believed the Zodiac did after saying that he was going to.

259
00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Walk away, Well, he told them exactly what he was

260
00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:33.120
<v Speaker 2>going to do. He told them every step of the

261
00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:35.440
<v Speaker 2>way what he was doing and what he was going

262
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:38.159
<v Speaker 2>to do. And I believe every word of what he said.

263
00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:40.200
<v Speaker 2>He said he was going to walk off and not

264
00:13:40.440 --> 00:13:43.320
<v Speaker 2>tell them, not connect for them the murders, and what

265
00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:45.279
<v Speaker 2>he also said was he was going to make them

266
00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:49.519
<v Speaker 2>look like accidents. He was going to use knives and whatever.

267
00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:52.320
<v Speaker 2>He had a different menagerie of things he was going

268
00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:54.360
<v Speaker 2>to use to tail and not tell them about it.

269
00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:58.600
<v Speaker 2>And that's exactly what he did. Because he knew that

270
00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.399
<v Speaker 2>if he went across the jurisdics no lines, and if

271
00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:05.320
<v Speaker 2>he killed people by bludgend by knife, by shooting them

272
00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:07.759
<v Speaker 2>by you know, he changed up his them all across

273
00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:10.480
<v Speaker 2>time and space, that his chances were pretty slim that

274
00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:13.279
<v Speaker 2>they would figure out who he was. And that's exactly

275
00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:15.200
<v Speaker 2>what he did. It was like he drew him a

276
00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:16.960
<v Speaker 2>map and said, Okay, here's what I'm going to do.

277
00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.080
<v Speaker 2>And it even says in some of the hidden messages

278
00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:23.919
<v Speaker 2>that we have discovered in the letters that he sent,

279
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:27.879
<v Speaker 2>there are hidden messages that all the misspelled words actually

280
00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:31.320
<v Speaker 2>spell out hidden messages, and they are about some of

281
00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:34.279
<v Speaker 2>the things he said, like, for example, wig I like,

282
00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:38.240
<v Speaker 2>he likes wigs. He liked wigs, He used disguises, and

283
00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:41.320
<v Speaker 2>he did anything he felt like. And so that's what

284
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.399
<v Speaker 2>you see moving forward, that that's what he continued to do.

285
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:46.919
<v Speaker 2>He wasn't kidding. He continued to kill.

286
00:14:47.919 --> 00:14:52.320
<v Speaker 6>In your investigation, you looked at all kinds of rapes

287
00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:59.320
<v Speaker 6>and murders, abductions, offented abductions, what was the mo the

288
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:03.919
<v Speaker 6>victim all and more importantly, just the thing that you

289
00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:09.399
<v Speaker 6>felt signified that this was a zodiac continuing to perpetrate.

290
00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:12.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, he mostly killed women, and that was his thing.

291
00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:15.559
<v Speaker 2>He killed couples. He continued to do that in different ways,

292
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:19.360
<v Speaker 2>by blegend by shooting them. They're different murders that you

293
00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:22.519
<v Speaker 2>can tell they have to be him. He just continued.

294
00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:25.480
<v Speaker 2>He and one of the threats he did make was

295
00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:29.120
<v Speaker 2>that he was going to pick off kiddies coming off buses. Well,

296
00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.679
<v Speaker 2>he never blew anyone up, but what he did do

297
00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:35.840
<v Speaker 2>was make people vanish into thin air. For example, kids

298
00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:38.120
<v Speaker 2>getting off the bus, fourteen year old, fifteen year old,

299
00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:40.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, twelve year old, you name it. I mean

300
00:15:40.559 --> 00:15:43.840
<v Speaker 2>he had a menagerie of you know, younger girls and

301
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.879
<v Speaker 2>then and he also killed women. But with the ones

302
00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.919
<v Speaker 2>that he took after school off the bus or going

303
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.200
<v Speaker 2>to the bus in the morning, they were there one

304
00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:53.799
<v Speaker 2>second and gone the next, and most of the time

305
00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.879
<v Speaker 2>no one saw anything. He was like a phantom. But

306
00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.519
<v Speaker 2>their bodies would turn up and want lot of times

307
00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.080
<v Speaker 2>in the same jurisdiction. You know, he liked to dump

308
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:07.320
<v Speaker 2>them where fishermen would find them. And he just continued

309
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:10.320
<v Speaker 2>on and on. And what's interesting moving forward too, is

310
00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:14.360
<v Speaker 2>that the famous Paul Avery ended up in Sacramento doing

311
00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.960
<v Speaker 2>crime writing for the Sacramento Bee, and he ended up

312
00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:20.879
<v Speaker 2>running across the case. The first case actually right after

313
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:23.240
<v Speaker 2>he was hired. Within three days after he was hired,

314
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:28.320
<v Speaker 2>he got involved with the murder of Catherine Harlan. She

315
00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:31.480
<v Speaker 2>was nine years old, disappeared from the bus. And also

316
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:35.039
<v Speaker 2>they decided after a while to charge him with abducting

317
00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:38.679
<v Speaker 2>someone called Katherine Hagen Bush. And eventually those charges were

318
00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.559
<v Speaker 2>dropped against this guy, who had an IQ of about

319
00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:45.240
<v Speaker 2>sixty three named Fred, but Paul Avy was very instrumental

320
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:47.679
<v Speaker 2>in that case. He wrote a huge story about it,

321
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:51.639
<v Speaker 2>the biggest story that Sacronabe had ever had about a crime.

322
00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:53.480
<v Speaker 2>That was almost like they tried to say he was

323
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:57.399
<v Speaker 2>trying the case in the paper, but what he said

324
00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.279
<v Speaker 2>ended up being absolutely true, and he was in to

325
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:03.679
<v Speaker 2>getting talent in that world. Did you know arrest a

326
00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:06.720
<v Speaker 2>guy with the sixty three IQ for these murders are

327
00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:09.880
<v Speaker 2>too compact? So long story short, he was there in

328
00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.920
<v Speaker 2>Sacramento writing about the crimes around Sacramento and all the murders.

329
00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:16.160
<v Speaker 2>He had to know something was going on down there.

330
00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:22.279
<v Speaker 6>You talk about the Zodiac contacting law enforcement and media

331
00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:25.960
<v Speaker 6>after this, obviously he said he wasn't going to communicate

332
00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:31.599
<v Speaker 6>with the media. But it's interesting that he would not

333
00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:35.599
<v Speaker 6>crave that kind of attention. And you say that there

334
00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:39.400
<v Speaker 6>about crimes, you're saying that he moved on to a

335
00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:40.880
<v Speaker 6>different type of taunting.

336
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Right exactly. He changed too. He contacted and he stopped

337
00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:46.720
<v Speaker 2>calling the media for the most part. What he did

338
00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:50.039
<v Speaker 2>instead was he I think he wrote letters to crime

339
00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.480
<v Speaker 2>beasts and said did you guys solve this? And they

340
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:55.440
<v Speaker 2>would write in the paper Crime Watches that know, it

341
00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:58.000
<v Speaker 2>hadn't involved, it's an open case and so on. The

342
00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:00.240
<v Speaker 2>Other thing that he did was call people. But what

343
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:02.559
<v Speaker 2>he did was call the victims. He called the victims

344
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:05.680
<v Speaker 2>and the victims' family. There are murders where he calls

345
00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.079
<v Speaker 2>and calls and says, you know, they're like, you know

346
00:18:08.119 --> 00:18:10.599
<v Speaker 2>where she is and he just laughs and hangs up,

347
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, like I or I killed her and things

348
00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:17.039
<v Speaker 2>like that. Just really obnoxious, rotten things that he would

349
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.400
<v Speaker 2>do to the families and the victims themselves. So he

350
00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:21.240
<v Speaker 2>found a way to half people.

351
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.000
<v Speaker 6>You talk about the progression and some of his behavior

352
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:31.400
<v Speaker 6>when he started off. Let's talk about how you connect

353
00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:34.880
<v Speaker 6>some of these crimes to another serial killer.

354
00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:37.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, just what do they say about coincidences? There's too

355
00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:40.680
<v Speaker 2>many to be coincidences. To me, thinks they're the same.

356
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:44.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, there was a serial killer in Sacramento for

357
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:48.680
<v Speaker 2>forty years basically in surrounding areas. And admittedly, some of

358
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:53.680
<v Speaker 2>the crimes that I have investigated were so exactly, so

359
00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:58.359
<v Speaker 2>absolutely the same with bludgeoning, knocking somebody's teeth out, bashing

360
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.079
<v Speaker 2>their faces and their heads in different things that were

361
00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:05.720
<v Speaker 2>done were so exactly the same as far as his time,

362
00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:08.359
<v Speaker 2>you know what he found, he liked to do the best,

363
00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:11.039
<v Speaker 2>et cetera. But also some of the things he said

364
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.119
<v Speaker 2>over time about how he had to get to Mexico,

365
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.680
<v Speaker 2>different things that he said to the victims themselves. There

366
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.160
<v Speaker 2>are people who actually survived and could tell you what

367
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:26.160
<v Speaker 2>was said. I spoke to Brian Hartnell at one point.

368
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:30.000
<v Speaker 2>I've spoken to different other people that were involved in

369
00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:35.680
<v Speaker 2>a story, and it's interesting how similar this serial killer was,

370
00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:39.640
<v Speaker 2>the one that morphed into what he became later on.

371
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.720
<v Speaker 6>So when you talk about the Zodiac over the years,

372
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:47.279
<v Speaker 6>there have been a number of suspects that have surfaced,

373
00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:52.000
<v Speaker 6>and in this book you go through those and you

374
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:54.759
<v Speaker 6>ask the question or you tell why that they were

375
00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:57.240
<v Speaker 6>a suspect in the first place, and then why it

376
00:19:57.319 --> 00:19:59.839
<v Speaker 6>was dismissed. Can you talk about a couple of those

377
00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:04.519
<v Speaker 6>more primary suspects and it might have looked good to

378
00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:06.799
<v Speaker 6>some people, and why they were dismissed.

379
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, a lot of people realize a time why

380
00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:13.799
<v Speaker 2>most of the suspects of the Zodiac Killer of being

381
00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:16.599
<v Speaker 2>the Zodiac Killer were dismissed because there really was no

382
00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:20.559
<v Speaker 2>real evidence and there's no fingerprints, there's no you know, DNA.

383
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:25.119
<v Speaker 2>There's there's nothing to actually connect someone to the Zodiac.

384
00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:28.720
<v Speaker 2>The profiles that they have are partial profiles at best.

385
00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:31.960
<v Speaker 2>A criminalist on a show that I was watching was

386
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:36.039
<v Speaker 2>basically going through that and saying why it's not really useful. Meanwhile,

387
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.759
<v Speaker 2>in twenty eighteen, I think it was the LAYOPD announced

388
00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:42.440
<v Speaker 2>they were going to do retesting and we should have

389
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:45.680
<v Speaker 2>some results soon. And here it is three years later

390
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.160
<v Speaker 2>and you haven't heard a word from them because they

391
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:52.319
<v Speaker 2>really don't have any usable DNA in my opinion, and

392
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:56.039
<v Speaker 2>they don't have any fingerprints that tie anyone to the

393
00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:59.200
<v Speaker 2>crimes of you know, the Zodiac when he killed Paulp's time.

394
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.680
<v Speaker 2>People like to argue about the fingerprints left cab, there's

395
00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:07.200
<v Speaker 2>any usable anything. The only thing I would test for,

396
00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:09.839
<v Speaker 2>if I were to be the one to do it,

397
00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:12.200
<v Speaker 2>would be to see if the shirt that he ripped

398
00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:15.440
<v Speaker 2>in the cab has any touch DNA or anything. But

399
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.599
<v Speaker 2>everything is just so degraded after fifty some years that

400
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:22.240
<v Speaker 2>it's probably not going to be usable. And that's what

401
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:22.960
<v Speaker 2>they say.

402
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:28.559
<v Speaker 6>You talk about Arthur Lee Allen and why he was included. Obviously,

403
00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:32.119
<v Speaker 6>there's a movie Believe two thousand and seven I believe

404
00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:36.519
<v Speaker 6>or to anyway, the movie Zodiac, Why is Arthur Allen

405
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:38.319
<v Speaker 6>Lee not a viable.

406
00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:42.279
<v Speaker 2>Suspect, Well, they cleared him with DNA eventually before he died,

407
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:46.559
<v Speaker 2>I believe, or was it right after, But basically the

408
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:50.720
<v Speaker 2>DNA that they have it, they can not the DNA

409
00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:52.920
<v Speaker 2>they have that we were able to figure out that

410
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.319
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't him. Whatever profile they have, their partial profile.

411
00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:03.119
<v Speaker 2>And also he is a pedophile only really the Zodiac

412
00:22:03.559 --> 00:22:07.240
<v Speaker 2>would continue on and he didn't seem to discriminate between

413
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:10.720
<v Speaker 2>children nine year old, twelve year olds, fifteen year olds,

414
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:13.559
<v Speaker 2>and then women that were twenty eight thirty. Didn't seem

415
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:16.160
<v Speaker 2>to matter the age of the victim. It was just

416
00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:20.039
<v Speaker 2>the ease of taking them and ledging them to death

417
00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:24.000
<v Speaker 2>or shooting them or whatever he felt like. There are

418
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:26.839
<v Speaker 2>a couple of instances later on too, where people just

419
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:29.200
<v Speaker 2>danished from their home, vanishing the thin air.

420
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:33.200
<v Speaker 6>What about other suspects like Ross Sullivan.

421
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, he had mental health issues. But you know, one

422
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:38.559
<v Speaker 2>of the things about the serial killer is that he

423
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:42.519
<v Speaker 2>was organized, he was methodical. He was I think he

424
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:45.960
<v Speaker 2>had OCD in that he kept track of everything he did.

425
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:47.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't think some of the people with mental health

426
00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.920
<v Speaker 2>issues that were brought forward as suspects really could do

427
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.400
<v Speaker 2>you know what he did and sustain it, you know,

428
00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:58.839
<v Speaker 2>So Russ Sullivan, to me, he just was not a

429
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:02.240
<v Speaker 2>viable suspect. And it might people feel that way about him,

430
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:04.960
<v Speaker 2>even if his name isn't any kind of cipher, or

431
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:07.599
<v Speaker 2>if it isn't, he's really not a viable suspect in

432
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:08.160
<v Speaker 2>my opinion.

433
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:11.960
<v Speaker 6>And were there any other suspects that you dealt with

434
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:16.720
<v Speaker 6>in your book and dismissed.

435
00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:18.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, one of them, I figure out how to pronounce

436
00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:23.799
<v Speaker 2>his name's mister bell Qvel. She was in micro Deeli,

437
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:28.640
<v Speaker 2>his book, and I found that fascinating, more fascinating than

438
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:30.680
<v Speaker 2>most actually, and it's really the only book that I've

439
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:33.000
<v Speaker 2>looked at. But he thought that it was him, and

440
00:23:33.079 --> 00:23:36.079
<v Speaker 2>I can see why in a particular way because he

441
00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:38.680
<v Speaker 2>was an older gentleman and he lived in the presidio.

442
00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:45.079
<v Speaker 2>But I don't believe it it's him either, for many reasons.

443
00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.160
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, and it was a fascinating read because of

444
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.000
<v Speaker 2>the fact that his suspect was an older gentleman. He

445
00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:54.920
<v Speaker 2>was old enough to have been in World War Two.

446
00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.079
<v Speaker 2>But he actually knew that they were looking at him

447
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.599
<v Speaker 2>while he was so alive as a suspect for the Zodiac,

448
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:01.519
<v Speaker 2>and he and he sort of sat across the table

449
00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:05.119
<v Speaker 2>from the author and an investigator and you know, went

450
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:06.640
<v Speaker 2>through it and said, well, why do you think I'm

451
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:11.000
<v Speaker 2>the suspect? So but I don't, you know, I believe

452
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.680
<v Speaker 2>what I believe for many many reasons, and the circumstantial

453
00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:18.200
<v Speaker 2>evidence that I've collected makes my logical sense to me.

454
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:22.319
<v Speaker 2>And also, mister Tuvall was too awful to the Zodiac

455
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:23.039
<v Speaker 2>in my opinion.

456
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:26.359
<v Speaker 6>Before we talk about who you really believe the Zodiac

457
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:30.400
<v Speaker 6>killer morphed into, let's talk about Richard Marshall and why

458
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.799
<v Speaker 6>he was suspected, because this is a very interesting suspect,

459
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:39.359
<v Speaker 6>and just be I'd like to fascinating again coincidence.

460
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:42.960
<v Speaker 2>A coincidence that one I'm not as familiar with off

461
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:45.559
<v Speaker 2>the top of my head because there's so many details

462
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:48.200
<v Speaker 2>and so many different suspects. I just brought forth the

463
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:53.279
<v Speaker 2>first five or six different suspects over time that were possibilities,

464
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:56.640
<v Speaker 2>but there were ones that were one in particular that

465
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:59.319
<v Speaker 2>really kind of caught my attention, and I thought, why

466
00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:02.240
<v Speaker 2>would anybody I think Ted Kaczynski was a Zodiac killer,

467
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:05.480
<v Speaker 2>but it was because he tarted to blow up people.

468
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:09.000
<v Speaker 2>But his manifest was way different in what his causes

469
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:11.680
<v Speaker 2>were than what the Zodiac. The Zodiac did this just

470
00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:14.119
<v Speaker 2>for fun, just because he wanted to and because he

471
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:17.160
<v Speaker 2>could so and as far as he said, Richard Marshall,

472
00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:18.519
<v Speaker 2>Marshalls you wanted to talk.

473
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:21.400
<v Speaker 6>About, Yeah, Richard Marshall was the well what he was

474
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.799
<v Speaker 6>just a projectionist. But what I thought was very interesting

475
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:26.720
<v Speaker 6>is that he became a suspect. It looks like because

476
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.079
<v Speaker 6>he liked these old movies, including The Red Phantom, which

477
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:33.480
<v Speaker 6>was mentioned in a nineteen seventy four Zodiac.

478
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Letter, right, So yeah, it was kind of interesting the

479
00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:38.400
<v Speaker 2>circumstantial evidence that they brought forward because he was in

480
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Riverside in nineteen sixty six and he was near where

481
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:44.359
<v Speaker 2>Sign was murdered and things like that, so I can

482
00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:46.400
<v Speaker 2>see why they took a look at him. And that

483
00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:48.240
<v Speaker 2>was also The Red Pantom. He's just kind of a

484
00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:51.359
<v Speaker 2>weird guy, so and he had a typewriter and it's hell,

485
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:54.559
<v Speaker 2>it's similar to what the Zodiac was using apparently at

486
00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:54.920
<v Speaker 2>the time.

487
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:56.160
<v Speaker 6>So very interesting.

488
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:59.839
<v Speaker 2>They ruled him out though, Yeah, that is with their suspects,

489
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.720
<v Speaker 2>especially back in before the DNA.

490
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:07.200
<v Speaker 6>Were these suspects suspects of the police or were they

491
00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:12.519
<v Speaker 6>suspects for people online? Because this has garnered so much

492
00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:13.759
<v Speaker 6>attention over the years.

493
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:15.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, these were, you know, originally people they looked at

494
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.920
<v Speaker 2>in the beginning of different people brought other people forward,

495
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:21.119
<v Speaker 2>like giving the case of Arthur al and you know,

496
00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:23.880
<v Speaker 2>somebody else said well look at this guy. He's been

497
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:25.680
<v Speaker 2>in trouble for this, or he's done this or that,

498
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:29.279
<v Speaker 2>and so other people were usually instrumental and bringing a

499
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:30.359
<v Speaker 2>suspects forward.

500
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:32.759
<v Speaker 6>Right this, This is an opportunity to stop for a

501
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.160
<v Speaker 6>second for these messages.

502
00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:36.680
<v Speaker 5>Have you got more debt than you can handle? Are

503
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:39.079
<v Speaker 5>you confused by all of the ads that promise to

504
00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:41.599
<v Speaker 5>help you become debt free? Who can you trust? I'm

505
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.480
<v Speaker 5>Doug hoys of Hoyse michaelis licensed insolvency Trustees. We've helped

506
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.720
<v Speaker 5>thousands of people just like you eliminate their debt. Many

507
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.000
<v Speaker 5>have posted reviews and testimonials about our people and our service.

508
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:52.839
<v Speaker 6>Check us out.

509
00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:55.720
<v Speaker 5>Helping people deal with their debt is all that we do.

510
00:26:56.039 --> 00:26:58.799
<v Speaker 5>No tricks, no gimmicks, We get the job done. Give

511
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:01.000
<v Speaker 5>us a call at three ten plans or visit hoys

512
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:04.839
<v Speaker 5>dot com. That's h yes dot com. And let's get started.

513
00:27:05.079 --> 00:27:07.720
<v Speaker 6>Now. What we were talking about is you have put

514
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:12.039
<v Speaker 6>together an analysis of the crimes of Zodiac and then

515
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.880
<v Speaker 6>what happened afterwards in the crimes that you attribute to

516
00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:18.359
<v Speaker 6>the Zodiac. But again you believe that there's another serial

517
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.119
<v Speaker 6>killer that he morphed into. So before we name that person,

518
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:26.680
<v Speaker 6>give us some more information on the similarities that struct

519
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:31.920
<v Speaker 6>you as more than coincidence. And then your analysis and

520
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:35.079
<v Speaker 6>research and further investigation have made you, as you write

521
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:38.240
<v Speaker 6>in the book, one hundred and ten percent sure of

522
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:39.039
<v Speaker 6>your conclusions.

523
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Right. Well, like I said, when you see serial killers

524
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:45.640
<v Speaker 2>and the murders that happen in the Sacramento area in

525
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:49.559
<v Speaker 2>particular over time, and then also around the surrounding areas,

526
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:52.319
<v Speaker 2>the geography is really close. The layout is not far

527
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:55.839
<v Speaker 2>from Sacramento. Everything around the area in San Francisco is

528
00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:58.240
<v Speaker 2>not very far. It's just really close by. And so

529
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:00.759
<v Speaker 2>I kind of get an analysis of each one of

530
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:03.160
<v Speaker 2>the murders at the beginning with Zodiac just a little

531
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:05.240
<v Speaker 2>bit of information at the beginning, and then I talk

532
00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:08.480
<v Speaker 2>about all the different murders that happened quite a few

533
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:11.200
<v Speaker 2>of them are in here from seventies to sixties, and

534
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:15.400
<v Speaker 2>what kept happening over time was that people were killed

535
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:19.440
<v Speaker 2>in various ways and they were dumped across jurisdictional lines.

536
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Instead of killing in a jurisdiction and then moving to

537
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:26.599
<v Speaker 2>another jurisdiction and killing, what he was doing was killing

538
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.279
<v Speaker 2>in what particular county and then dumping bodies in another county.

539
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.200
<v Speaker 2>Or he would move from you again, county to county,

540
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:36.640
<v Speaker 2>different jurisdictional lines, very aware of what he was doing,

541
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:39.240
<v Speaker 2>and would attack a lot of times in the same

542
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:43.160
<v Speaker 2>exact ways. Sometimes he would sexually assault people and sometimes

543
00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:47.119
<v Speaker 2>he wouldn't. Sometimes the mood was I'm going to go

544
00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:49.920
<v Speaker 2>kill somebody that some of the dates are the same.

545
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:53.160
<v Speaker 2>He really, really really seemed to like over and over

546
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:56.200
<v Speaker 2>to kill on Labor Day weekend. September sixth was a

547
00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:59.720
<v Speaker 2>date that heard over and over again. And the disappearance

548
00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:03.519
<v Speaker 2>of Elast was September sixth, nineteen seventy, and this is

549
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:06.000
<v Speaker 2>a date that comes up over and over again. So

550
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:10.039
<v Speaker 2>the anniversaries of dates that he liked to kill was

551
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:14.160
<v Speaker 2>a consistent it's a consistent over time. I don't want

552
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:18.079
<v Speaker 2>to say the fact that John Alas was taken after

553
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:20.680
<v Speaker 2>work the way that I see it, and I talked

554
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:22.640
<v Speaker 2>to the detective about it, I said, you know, he

555
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:25.640
<v Speaker 2>was looking at well G back in nineteen seventy. This

556
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:28.279
<v Speaker 2>is new new information. By the way, is that a

557
00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:31.039
<v Speaker 2>lot of people thought that she didn't finish her her

558
00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:33.640
<v Speaker 2>call logue that night, that she was taken maybe from

559
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.119
<v Speaker 2>the casino. She wasn't she finished her call log. I

560
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:41.039
<v Speaker 2>have that in my possession. They thought possibly that she

561
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:43.519
<v Speaker 2>had been taken right out of work. They weren't sure

562
00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:46.720
<v Speaker 2>if she was taken in California or Nevada. About when

563
00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:49.480
<v Speaker 2>we look at the Nevada records of the crime, it

564
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.799
<v Speaker 2>appears that she was taken from there and then vanished.

565
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:55.920
<v Speaker 2>But what's interesting is is that her car was parked

566
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:59.559
<v Speaker 2>in the parking lot of her apartment. And this happened also,

567
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:01.680
<v Speaker 2>by the way, over and over again, over time, and

568
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.920
<v Speaker 2>every single jurisdiction, there are murders of women where their

569
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:07.880
<v Speaker 2>car is parked where it was supposed to be, but

570
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.799
<v Speaker 2>they're gone, They're absolutely vanished. There's a lot of murders

571
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:15.759
<v Speaker 2>that happened where people were taken, like for example, in

572
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Granite Bay, California, where the women are taken and they're

573
00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:22.640
<v Speaker 2>found dead in their cars, So you know, again he

574
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:25.440
<v Speaker 2>changed up what he was doing to try to confuse

575
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:30.519
<v Speaker 2>people over jurisdictional lines. Over and over he killed by bludgeends,

576
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.839
<v Speaker 2>by nighte by gun, by strangle, you name it. And

577
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:36.519
<v Speaker 2>the other thing that he did over and over was

578
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:38.960
<v Speaker 2>try to set other people up for what he had done.

579
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:43.599
<v Speaker 2>There are examples of people who got put away because

580
00:30:43.599 --> 00:30:46.799
<v Speaker 2>of circumstantial evidence, and I'm sure he thought it was

581
00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:49.799
<v Speaker 2>extremely funny. The other thing he did was attack in

582
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.480
<v Speaker 2>areas where he had particular grudges with people. If people

583
00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:56.319
<v Speaker 2>had been in the news a lot, for example, a

584
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.880
<v Speaker 2>police person was in the news, a police officer maybe

585
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:03.079
<v Speaker 2>would make their family member go missing or something like

586
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:06.599
<v Speaker 2>that would happen. So there's just I've checked it really well,

587
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.400
<v Speaker 2>and I think I've explained it pretty well in this book.

588
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:11.279
<v Speaker 2>How he operated.

589
00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:14.759
<v Speaker 6>Why is it you believe that he was able to

590
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:18.640
<v Speaker 6>operate undetected that some of the things that you looked at,

591
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:19.720
<v Speaker 6>some of the things that.

592
00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:23.680
<v Speaker 5>With lucky land slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere.

593
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:27.279
<v Speaker 6>Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen

594
00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:27.920
<v Speaker 6>the bride and.

595
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:30.279
<v Speaker 1>Broom sorry, sorry, we're here.

596
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.319
<v Speaker 4>We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost

597
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:32.880
<v Speaker 4>track of time.

598
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:36.440
<v Speaker 6>No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up

599
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:38.960
<v Speaker 6>quicker than a guess registered in. In that case, I

600
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:40.079
<v Speaker 6>pronounce you Lucky.

601
00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:43.119
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for free. At lucky landslots dot com.

602
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.599
<v Speaker 4>Daily bonuses are waiting.

603
00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:47.200
<v Speaker 5>No purchase necessary board We're prohibited by Lot eight team

604
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:50.079
<v Speaker 5>plus terms and conditions of applak see website for details.

605
00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:55.079
<v Speaker 3>Okay, round two, name something that's not boring.

606
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:59.480
<v Speaker 6>Laundry, a book club, computer solitaire.

607
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:06.640
<v Speaker 4>Huh oh, Sorry, we were looking for Chumbuck Casino. Chum,

608
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:09.559
<v Speaker 4>that's right, Chubbuckcasino dot com as over one hundred casino

609
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:11.720
<v Speaker 4>style games joined today and the play for free for

610
00:32:11.799 --> 00:32:13.799
<v Speaker 4>your chance to redeem some serious prizes.

611
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.039
<v Speaker 3>Chum Chumbucasino dot.

612
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:19.720
<v Speaker 4>Com over eighty plus or condition.

613
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:23.480
<v Speaker 6>To Busy Whatsy retails seem eerily similar, especially in light

614
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:26.039
<v Speaker 6>of the last few years. As you write about forensic

615
00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:31.319
<v Speaker 6>technology and DNA advances. Why didn't they see some of

616
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:33.880
<v Speaker 6>the things that you're seeing? Why you was your particular

617
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:35.279
<v Speaker 6>perspective more crucial?

618
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:38.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that what's interesting is this is such

619
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:41.319
<v Speaker 2>a huge story. Let's go back and say, gee, first

620
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:44.480
<v Speaker 2>year Zodiac that we knew of him, that we actually

621
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:47.839
<v Speaker 2>formerly knew of him. From nineteen sixty eight to sixty nine,

622
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:51.400
<v Speaker 2>he contacted the media, he showed them how he was

623
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:53.880
<v Speaker 2>going to do this. He killed couples, and then he

624
00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:56.720
<v Speaker 2>killed Paul Stein, who was the outlier. And then what

625
00:32:56.920 --> 00:32:59.319
<v Speaker 2>happened is he says, I'm not going to do it

626
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:01.279
<v Speaker 2>like this anymore because he knew he had to move

627
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:03.839
<v Speaker 2>on because if he continued doing what he was doing,

628
00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>sooner or later, they're going to figure out what he

629
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:10.000
<v Speaker 2>was doing. Well, as he continued on later on, if

630
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:14.519
<v Speaker 2>they had looked at him as thoroughly as they maybe

631
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:17.359
<v Speaker 2>could have. Because there were so many murders in Sacramento

632
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:20.359
<v Speaker 2>and the surrounding areas, I mean, it's insane. That's why

633
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.240
<v Speaker 2>it's named Cereal Slaughter. Because there are so many dead

634
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:26.160
<v Speaker 2>bodies showing up. I'm sure that they must have been

635
00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:30.680
<v Speaker 2>overwhelmed in every jurisdiction. Sometimes people in Cutter County would

636
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:34.440
<v Speaker 2>be taken to the more there into the medical exameter there,

637
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:36.559
<v Speaker 2>or they'd switched him back and forth to Sack County,

638
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:38.759
<v Speaker 2>and so some kinds of different things were going on

639
00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:42.039
<v Speaker 2>but a lot of times it seems as though they

640
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:45.680
<v Speaker 2>had so many murders that they either were so overwhelmed

641
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:48.400
<v Speaker 2>that they didn't really a case would go cold, and

642
00:33:48.440 --> 00:33:50.440
<v Speaker 2>then they'd go to the next one and so on.

643
00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:54.519
<v Speaker 2>They just didn't either have the manpower or I don't

644
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:58.359
<v Speaker 2>know what to continue through to find this guy. Because

645
00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:01.119
<v Speaker 2>if they had, if a task had been put together,

646
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:04.079
<v Speaker 2>like what they did with said Bundy, for example, where

647
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:06.559
<v Speaker 2>they worked together and they said, we're going to figure

648
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.159
<v Speaker 2>out who the heck this guy is. And of course

649
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:10.920
<v Speaker 2>he was kind of stupid when it came to said Bundy,

650
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.079
<v Speaker 2>was kind of a little bit more careless as he

651
00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:15.840
<v Speaker 2>went on in time. Sure he ended up, you know,

652
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:17.920
<v Speaker 2>being a lot more careless than he got himself caught.

653
00:34:18.039 --> 00:34:21.480
<v Speaker 2>But this guy the Zodiac, he was meticulous, and he

654
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:23.639
<v Speaker 2>knew exactly what to do and what not to do

655
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:26.119
<v Speaker 2>to call attention to himself, and he threw a lot

656
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:29.079
<v Speaker 2>of confusion into every murder that he did. There's a

657
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:34.239
<v Speaker 2>couple murders in Sacramento in nineteen seventy eight and nineteen eighty, respectively,

658
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:37.280
<v Speaker 2>where the women who were killed were right there a

659
00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:40.960
<v Speaker 2>green belt area. They were in the easter a rapist

660
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:43.559
<v Speaker 2>attack zones, and they were killed. You know, one of

661
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:46.920
<v Speaker 2>them jumped off of a balcony and he got hurt

662
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:49.719
<v Speaker 2>somewhere along the way. So they have DNA, they have

663
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:52.840
<v Speaker 2>in some of these murders. They still have DNA if

664
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:55.679
<v Speaker 2>they've kept it in evidence and if it's still viable

665
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.679
<v Speaker 2>to be able to test to see who in the

666
00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:01.079
<v Speaker 2>heck killed these women for real. And some people were

667
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:04.760
<v Speaker 2>put away for these murders. I think probably because law

668
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:08.519
<v Speaker 2>enforcement wanted to solve some of these crimes. They wanted

669
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:10.400
<v Speaker 2>to a piece of public and tell them, hey, these

670
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:13.199
<v Speaker 2>are solved. It makes people feel a little less uneasy.

671
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:18.079
<v Speaker 2>But the sheer volume of murders was insane, and Sacramento

672
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:19.960
<v Speaker 2>has some of the highest murders in the country. To

673
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:21.960
<v Speaker 2>tell you the truth, and they did then and they

674
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:25.280
<v Speaker 2>do now. So he had to live somewhere and he

675
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:29.719
<v Speaker 2>had to He's not dead. He didn't get incarcerated, you know,

676
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:30.920
<v Speaker 2>he was still out there.

677
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:33.280
<v Speaker 6>So this is an opportunity to stop to hear from

678
00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:37.880
<v Speaker 6>our sponsor, which is ritual. Gaps in the diet shouldn't

679
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:41.599
<v Speaker 6>be ignored. Over ninety seven percent of women age nineteen

680
00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:44.119
<v Speaker 6>to fifty or not getting enough vitamin D from their

681
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:47.440
<v Speaker 6>diet and ninety five percent are not getting their recommended

682
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:52.199
<v Speaker 6>daily intake of key omega threes. Ritual's Essential for Women

683
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:56.440
<v Speaker 6>eighteen plus multivitamin was formulated by exhaustive research to help

684
00:35:56.519 --> 00:36:00.800
<v Speaker 6>fill nutrient gaps in the diets of women ages eighteen plus.

685
00:36:01.719 --> 00:36:05.320
<v Speaker 6>Is formulated with nutrients to help support brain health, bone health,

686
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:11.760
<v Speaker 6>blood health, and provide antioxidant support. But ritual didn't stop there.

687
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:15.639
<v Speaker 6>They invested in a gold standard university led clinical trial

688
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.800
<v Speaker 6>to prove the impact of Essential for Women eighteen plus multivitamin.

689
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:24.280
<v Speaker 6>The results Essential for Women eighteen plus was shown to

690
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:28.320
<v Speaker 6>increase vitamin D levels by forty three percent in omega

691
00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:34.199
<v Speaker 6>three dhh DHA levels by forty one percent in twelve weeks.

692
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:38.360
<v Speaker 6>My wife Lisa started taking Rituals Essential for Women eighteen

693
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:42.599
<v Speaker 6>plus multivitamin over two and a half years ago, and

694
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:45.960
<v Speaker 6>she has been impressed with how taking the multivitamin Ritual

695
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:49.519
<v Speaker 6>Multiminum has made her feel, and so I decided to

696
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:52.800
<v Speaker 6>take Ritual Essential for Men fifty plus when it became available.

697
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:56.199
<v Speaker 6>It's been almost a year now and I am convinced

698
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.280
<v Speaker 6>ritual has made it a significant difference in how I

699
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:03.599
<v Speaker 6>feel every day. Right now, ritual is offering my listeners

700
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:07.679
<v Speaker 6>ten percent off your first three months. Visit ritual dot

701
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:11.599
<v Speaker 6>com slash murder and turn healthy habits into a ritual

702
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:16.440
<v Speaker 6>that's ten percent off at ritual dot com slash murder. Now.

703
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:20.199
<v Speaker 6>And we were talking about all of the information that

704
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:23.280
<v Speaker 6>led you to believe that you were looking at another

705
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:27.880
<v Speaker 6>serial killer, and that serial killer was Joseph DiAngelo, former

706
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:33.360
<v Speaker 6>Easterio rapists original nightstalker, as we found out in twenty

707
00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:37.920
<v Speaker 6>eighteen Vasalia Ransacker. So tell us how you came to

708
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:41.039
<v Speaker 6>this conclusion. Tell us more about this conclusion.

709
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:44.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, like I said, reading the news of what was

710
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:47.159
<v Speaker 2>going on in detail, and I have included a lot

711
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:49.800
<v Speaker 2>of the detail in this book about the different murders

712
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.760
<v Speaker 2>that were occurring, but one in particular really struck me.

713
00:37:53.320 --> 00:37:55.920
<v Speaker 2>And if I can, I'd like to read a little

714
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:59.760
<v Speaker 2>excerpt from this. It has to do with students. Takari

715
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:03.400
<v Speaker 2>her body right. It was reported that she died from

716
00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:06.679
<v Speaker 2>a combination of strangulation and a savage beating about the face.

717
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:09.199
<v Speaker 2>Her nose had been smashed to a pole, her jaw

718
00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:12.119
<v Speaker 2>had been broken in at least two places, several teeth

719
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:15.159
<v Speaker 2>had been knocked out. The hyoid bone at the base

720
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:18.440
<v Speaker 2>of her tongue had been fractured, probably by the stocking garage.

721
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:21.079
<v Speaker 2>She had been sexually attacked. She was the victim of

722
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.800
<v Speaker 2>one of the most god awful assaults I've ever investigated,

723
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:27.480
<v Speaker 2>said Chief's Deputy Coroner, Captain E. R. Presley. And then

724
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:30.480
<v Speaker 2>what would I flash forward to. This was in nineteen

725
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:33.960
<v Speaker 2>seventy seventy one, flashboard in nineteen eighty six, and if

726
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:36.760
<v Speaker 2>you read the murder of Janelle Cruise in Irvine, California,

727
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:39.559
<v Speaker 2>it was also brudal. I said, it sound so much

728
00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:42.039
<v Speaker 2>like the murder of Miss Takari that one could place

729
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.519
<v Speaker 2>the story one over the other as if to trace them.

730
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:48.599
<v Speaker 2>They're connected by the same perpetrator, although it was sixteen

731
00:38:48.679 --> 00:38:51.559
<v Speaker 2>years later. Janelle was beaten in the face and the head.

732
00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:54.800
<v Speaker 2>The perpetrator demolished her face, knocked out her teeth, which

733
00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:57.199
<v Speaker 2>were found around the room, and in Miss Cruise, she

734
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:00.239
<v Speaker 2>was so brutally murdered the dental records had to be

735
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:02.639
<v Speaker 2>obtained in order to make sure it was in fact now.

736
00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:06.039
<v Speaker 2>And the difference is just in location in the murders,

737
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:08.920
<v Speaker 2>but the way that he was so brutal. The absolute

738
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:11.599
<v Speaker 2>horror of his rage was the same.

739
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:15.599
<v Speaker 6>What else I mean, obviously when you see that that

740
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:18.559
<v Speaker 6>it's the same clime, you have the same mo But

741
00:39:18.679 --> 00:39:20.880
<v Speaker 6>what are the things that you see as a progression,

742
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:24.639
<v Speaker 6>Like we mentioned that at first he was he obviously

743
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:29.159
<v Speaker 6>famously reached out to the Sacramento b and to the law,

744
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:33.000
<v Speaker 6>to law enforcement. But then after it's less known because

745
00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:35.639
<v Speaker 6>we have this movie where that goes on, but less

746
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:39.440
<v Speaker 6>known about the punting and the significance of the anniversaries

747
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:43.440
<v Speaker 6>of something happening and him calling and tormenting, which is

748
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:46.719
<v Speaker 6>far more horrifying than contacting the media or law enforcement.

749
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:47.880
<v Speaker 6>Certainly right and in.

750
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:50.199
<v Speaker 2>Our case is where he called the families that I

751
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:52.400
<v Speaker 2>point out in the book, where he would call the

752
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:55.440
<v Speaker 2>victim's family the girl would be missing, and he would

753
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:58.559
<v Speaker 2>call them every week on a Wednesday, for example. He

754
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:02.039
<v Speaker 2>called every single week and a for her, just taunting

755
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:04.679
<v Speaker 2>the victims and the victims' families over and over again.

756
00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:06.519
<v Speaker 2>That was one of the ways he got his kicks.

757
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:08.559
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this guy used to call people on the

758
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:11.760
<v Speaker 2>phone and try to get together with them to you know,

759
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:14.039
<v Speaker 2>Pat was missing. There was an ad in the paper

760
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:17.760
<v Speaker 2>he found a way to hassle people on the phone

761
00:40:17.800 --> 00:40:21.000
<v Speaker 2>over and over again and in many many different ways,

762
00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:24.519
<v Speaker 2>and that never stopped, never stopped. He was still doing

763
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:27.760
<v Speaker 2>stuff by the time they arrested him. He wore a wig.

764
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:29.960
<v Speaker 2>There's a picture of and with a wig on where

765
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.440
<v Speaker 2>he was on somebody's porch. I mean, there's there's just

766
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:34.679
<v Speaker 2>so many things that he did that were so much

767
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.599
<v Speaker 2>the same. And the conversation that Brian Hartner had with

768
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:39.960
<v Speaker 2>him that day at Lake Berry as he heard his

769
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:42.639
<v Speaker 2>voice and a lot of people had heard his voice,

770
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:44.639
<v Speaker 2>I know that some of the things he said to

771
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:47.719
<v Speaker 2>Brian that day he repeated over and over. The things

772
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:51.440
<v Speaker 2>that he took and didn't take for years were the same.

773
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:56.519
<v Speaker 2>He's you know, different other things like miscellaneous jewelry, one earring,

774
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:59.039
<v Speaker 2>it was the same. So some of the things he

775
00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:02.159
<v Speaker 2>took from the cab today that he killed paulse time.

776
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:05.039
<v Speaker 2>You know, he was just very meticulous and he had

777
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:07.599
<v Speaker 2>to have kept some sort of record to keep everyone

778
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:10.519
<v Speaker 2>straight and call them up on the anniversary of somebody's

779
00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:14.360
<v Speaker 2>death or somebody's rape. He did this over and over again.

780
00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:18.039
<v Speaker 6>You realized that as a police officer he knew quite

781
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:21.440
<v Speaker 6>a bit about jurisdictions and how the police worked and

782
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:24.239
<v Speaker 6>how the failings of police because he was a police

783
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:26.960
<v Speaker 6>officer for a few years. How much did that How

784
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:28.920
<v Speaker 6>much was that a light bulb on top of your

785
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:31.519
<v Speaker 6>head when you realized that that made a lot of

786
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:33.800
<v Speaker 6>sense and answered a lot of questions.

787
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, a lot of people thought that he was military

788
00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:41.960
<v Speaker 2>and or a police person. Then the ballistics involved way

789
00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:45.719
<v Speaker 2>early on would have told anyone that he was for cops.

790
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:49.639
<v Speaker 2>For the access to the ammunition that they used only them,

791
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.239
<v Speaker 2>They knew early on that it had to be somebody

792
00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:55.840
<v Speaker 2>who had access to that. So there were just many

793
00:41:56.000 --> 00:42:00.119
<v Speaker 2>clues that tell you that he had particular types of

794
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:02.880
<v Speaker 2>ammunition liked, or different things that he used. He never

795
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:07.000
<v Speaker 2>used the forty four, He very rarely used anything larger

796
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:09.880
<v Speaker 2>than at thirty eight, So just different guns that he

797
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:12.360
<v Speaker 2>stole over time in different things. He was a very

798
00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:15.239
<v Speaker 2>good cat burglar. He was probably one of the most

799
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:17.440
<v Speaker 2>brilliant serial killers I've ever tracked.

800
00:42:17.559 --> 00:42:20.360
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, but it would be particularly helpful to be a

801
00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:24.320
<v Speaker 6>police officer and also intimate, Like you say, he's in

802
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:28.760
<v Speaker 6>these small towns. They're very small, like Auburn and Glass Valley,

803
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:31.880
<v Speaker 6>so he has the opportunity to be able to know

804
00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:34.519
<v Speaker 6>people or know people related to these people that end

805
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:38.239
<v Speaker 6>up being his victims. But being a police officers particularly helpful,

806
00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:39.119
<v Speaker 6>wasn't it.

807
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:42.360
<v Speaker 2>And you're right he had connections to people in Drafts,

808
00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:45.239
<v Speaker 2>Valley and Newcastle, in different places that are small towns

809
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:48.599
<v Speaker 2>all around the Auburn area where he was as a teenager.

810
00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:51.199
<v Speaker 2>He ended up back there as an adult as a

811
00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:54.199
<v Speaker 2>police officer there some of the murders I think personally

812
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:57.280
<v Speaker 2>that he did to keep Nick Willet busy in Auburn.

813
00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:00.119
<v Speaker 2>He had a bone to pick with him because he

814
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:02.960
<v Speaker 2>was fired from the Auburn Police Department. And you find

815
00:43:03.079 --> 00:43:06.519
<v Speaker 2>murders that are connected, you find media people that are

816
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.599
<v Speaker 2>from that area, who came from San Francisco who ended

817
00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:12.440
<v Speaker 2>up owning the Foster Herald for example. There's just some

818
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:15.800
<v Speaker 2>interesting stories and connections to all of these people. And

819
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:18.639
<v Speaker 2>if he if he wanted to kill, Let's say he

820
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:21.159
<v Speaker 2>killed Paul Stein because he was pissed off at something

821
00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:23.719
<v Speaker 2>in the Sign family, or he killed Mary Lloyd in

822
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:27.159
<v Speaker 2>Auburn because she was pissed off at her brother's bost

823
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:31.199
<v Speaker 2>Harold and had come from San Francisco. Because so many connections,

824
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:35.840
<v Speaker 2>because this man was out there and he was drawing

825
00:43:36.039 --> 00:43:38.320
<v Speaker 2>a little map of what he wanted to do. And

826
00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:41.880
<v Speaker 2>he really did write down things, and he did have lists.

827
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:45.639
<v Speaker 2>And if you don't list, to kill you sometimes he

828
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:49.119
<v Speaker 2>would do it for happy with some.

829
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:51.119
<v Speaker 6>Book.

830
00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:54.480
<v Speaker 2>There's a couple of people where it was five years here,

831
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:58.519
<v Speaker 2>it's a news article. Show what happened to these people?

832
00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:01.039
<v Speaker 2>Were they in the news prior to these murders? And

833
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:04.920
<v Speaker 2>most often ninety nine percent of the time they were

834
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:07.760
<v Speaker 2>in the news. That one of the murders of games,

835
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:12.000
<v Speaker 2>kimball her Son was in the news constantly as a

836
00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:18.559
<v Speaker 2>Roseville Police Department official, and somehow his wife get his

837
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:23.280
<v Speaker 2>mother gets killed. So it's interesting the way he drew

838
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:26.199
<v Speaker 2>his connections to play his games, and that was one

839
00:44:26.199 --> 00:44:28.719
<v Speaker 2>of the things he did that was also consistent. He

840
00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:32.239
<v Speaker 2>played games as the Zodiac, he played games as the

841
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:35.960
<v Speaker 2>Golden State killer, as the East Ay racist. This love

842
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:36.960
<v Speaker 2>to screw with them.

843
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:41.320
<v Speaker 6>You write about a what almost can be considered a

844
00:44:41.320 --> 00:44:44.280
<v Speaker 6>close call when you mentioned the police chief that he

845
00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:48.039
<v Speaker 6>was mad at because he was fired. Tell us what

846
00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:51.119
<v Speaker 6>you write about in the book about what almost happened

847
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.039
<v Speaker 6>in this regard with the police chief. And his anger

848
00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:55.599
<v Speaker 6>towards him well.

849
00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:58.639
<v Speaker 2>As the story most people know about D'Angelo was that

850
00:44:58.679 --> 00:45:02.360
<v Speaker 2>when he was a officer, he was arrested in the

851
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:05.639
<v Speaker 2>attacks zones of the Easteri rapist in nineteen seventy nine

852
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:10.559
<v Speaker 2>and he ended up being ultimately fired from being a

853
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:13.880
<v Speaker 2>police officer at that point, but he was never investigated

854
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:16.639
<v Speaker 2>in depth at that point. They just kind of let

855
00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:20.360
<v Speaker 2>him wander off. He paid his fines and whatever needed

856
00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:22.880
<v Speaker 2>to be done. But he went after Nick Willock a

857
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:25.679
<v Speaker 2>little bit. He threatened him really, and then he showed

858
00:45:25.719 --> 00:45:28.519
<v Speaker 2>up a few months later, is the story. That's what

859
00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:32.719
<v Speaker 2>was told, that he stopped him and actually ended up

860
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:36.159
<v Speaker 2>outside of his house. So there was definitely bad blood

861
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:40.280
<v Speaker 2>between Nick Willock and Joseph DiAngelo. Joseph DiAngelo had actually

862
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:44.079
<v Speaker 2>even said Nick Willicks doesn't like me, and he didn't.

863
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:46.960
<v Speaker 2>There'd been quite a few complaints about how he got

864
00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:49.519
<v Speaker 2>too close to people when he was working and the

865
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:52.880
<v Speaker 2>different things that they didn't like about how he handled things.

866
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:56.840
<v Speaker 2>So there was bad blood between them. And interestingly enough,

867
00:45:56.920 --> 00:46:00.320
<v Speaker 2>there were bodies that showed up around the Auburn. Now, yeah,

868
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:03.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there's still some in Forest Hill. So he

869
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:07.039
<v Speaker 2>dunked the body across the street practically from the Auburn

870
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:09.719
<v Speaker 2>PD and he kept him, kept him busy. So there's

871
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:13.039
<v Speaker 2>stories about that what went on in Auburn after the

872
00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Zodiac left in nineteen sixty nine in the Bay area.

873
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:20.039
<v Speaker 6>I found it very interesting when you talk about and

874
00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:24.039
<v Speaker 6>their sband talked about early on about abuse to dogs,

875
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:26.960
<v Speaker 6>and then you have this. You write about that a

876
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:32.079
<v Speaker 6>homemade dog repellent would be garlic onions, a couple other things,

877
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:35.559
<v Speaker 6>soap one of those things. But you reprote that there

878
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:39.480
<v Speaker 6>was people that said the Zodiac and the eastereoapists both

879
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:42.320
<v Speaker 6>had the smell of rotting onions.

880
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

881
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:45.400
<v Speaker 6>I thought that was interesting. How far your investigation anyway?

882
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:48.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I also speculate I kind of went through

883
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:51.960
<v Speaker 2>the Palstein murderer that some people thought that he had

884
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:55.119
<v Speaker 2>stayed in the park, or if he didn't stay in

885
00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:57.920
<v Speaker 2>the park. I talk about how he left the park,

886
00:46:58.039 --> 00:47:00.440
<v Speaker 2>but when in the presidio, when he you know, he

887
00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:03.239
<v Speaker 2>spent He wrote a letter after the fact about what

888
00:47:03.320 --> 00:47:04.719
<v Speaker 2>he had done and he said, all you had to

889
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:06.239
<v Speaker 2>do was sit and wait for me to come out.

890
00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:10.320
<v Speaker 2>And so I talked about both scenarios. Whether he sat

891
00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:12.480
<v Speaker 2>in the park and what he might have done to

892
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:15.719
<v Speaker 2>avoid detection, which is to have lots of dog recount

893
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:19.360
<v Speaker 2>and hide in a particular place. He really did have

894
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:22.679
<v Speaker 2>some of the same mo as the later Easy rapist

895
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:26.320
<v Speaker 2>when it came to watching people scurry around and try

896
00:47:26.360 --> 00:47:28.280
<v Speaker 2>to figure out what happened and where he went.

897
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:32.119
<v Speaker 6>So, and you say, what's really important too, because this

898
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:36.199
<v Speaker 6>is somewhat rare, is that they both targeted couples in there.

899
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they did. DeAngelo admitted to killing the Maggiori couple,

900
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Brian and Katie Maggiori in nineteen seventy eight, and what

901
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:45.599
<v Speaker 2>he basically did was kill them in cold blood. He

902
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:49.079
<v Speaker 2>ran after him and shot them. Both of them died

903
00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:52.519
<v Speaker 2>that night, and I think he stocked them ahead of time.

904
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:57.199
<v Speaker 2>There's connections to Katie having been at Presnell State. Sharon

905
00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:00.159
<v Speaker 2>Huddle was at Presne State. Look, you can see the

906
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:03.719
<v Speaker 2>connections that he could have found someone in one place

907
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:06.719
<v Speaker 2>and know them that they weren't in his ase when

908
00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:10.360
<v Speaker 2>they ended up in Sacramento. So he tracked people. He

909
00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:13.719
<v Speaker 2>was a great stalker. He just was meticulous and he

910
00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:15.960
<v Speaker 2>never gave up. If he wanted to go after you,

911
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:18.000
<v Speaker 2>he would go after you if you want. If he

912
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:20.599
<v Speaker 2>wanted you to be a victim, he would be his victim.

913
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:24.079
<v Speaker 2>And Palstein, for example, I think that he wanted to

914
00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:26.320
<v Speaker 2>kill Paul Stein. It just happened to be that he

915
00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:28.639
<v Speaker 2>was a cabby made it easy for him to do it.

916
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:32.280
<v Speaker 2>And I think that even if Paul wasn't seeing it,

917
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:34.360
<v Speaker 2>wasn't out there. He was supposed to have been hired

918
00:48:34.760 --> 00:48:38.679
<v Speaker 2>by the San Francisco newspaper and was about to change jobs.

919
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.199
<v Speaker 2>I think that if he had not been in the

920
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:43.960
<v Speaker 2>cab that night, that D'Angelo would attract him and killed

921
00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:47.199
<v Speaker 2>them anyway, somewhere else, I said, di'angelo, but that means

922
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:50.760
<v Speaker 2>equals Zodiac. I think he was stalking them. I think

923
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:51.679
<v Speaker 2>he was going to kill him.

924
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:56.480
<v Speaker 6>Is the the idea of craving for celebrity makes sense

925
00:48:56.480 --> 00:48:59.239
<v Speaker 6>to you in terms of the zodiac. Craved that celebrity

926
00:48:59.400 --> 00:49:02.559
<v Speaker 6>and then said I'm going away. But this what he

927
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:05.679
<v Speaker 6>morphed into again created that notoriety.

928
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of course, yeah, he wanted to be known, and

929
00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:12.199
<v Speaker 2>he was, like I said, he found different ways to

930
00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:16.159
<v Speaker 2>satisfy his being able to be known. I mean his

931
00:49:16.480 --> 00:49:19.440
<v Speaker 2>sheer volume of attacks no matter where he was, if

932
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.239
<v Speaker 2>he was the Vicelia around soacker if he was the

933
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:26.079
<v Speaker 2>EASTERI rapist, no matter what he was doing, he you know,

934
00:49:26.119 --> 00:49:29.280
<v Speaker 2>the sheer volume of it was how he terrorized everyone

935
00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:32.159
<v Speaker 2>so so much, and that was what would have got

936
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:34.039
<v Speaker 2>off on the power and control there.

937
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:39.320
<v Speaker 6>Many people have looked at this geographical profile, geographical profiling,

938
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:42.960
<v Speaker 6>and you write that there was three places. Three main

939
00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:48.559
<v Speaker 6>places that connected Zodiac and the Golden State Killer Joseph'angelo

940
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:51.800
<v Speaker 6>was Tulaire County, Sacramento and Garden Grove.

941
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:54.679
<v Speaker 2>Right, there were so many murders of women in Garden Grove,

942
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.039
<v Speaker 2>which is where his brother lived. There were so many

943
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:01.159
<v Speaker 2>murders really in the Auburn Air up and down Highway

944
00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:06.280
<v Speaker 2>eighty and then also Sacramento County. So it's really close geographically,

945
00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:08.000
<v Speaker 2>all of it is. So it was not a far

946
00:50:08.079 --> 00:50:11.519
<v Speaker 2>stretch to look at what happened when Zodiac left and

947
00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:14.000
<v Speaker 2>where he could have gone, what he was doing. It's

948
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:14.480
<v Speaker 2>really not.

949
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:22.400
<v Speaker 6>You Also you talk about the similarities in again obviously geography,

950
00:50:22.599 --> 00:50:27.400
<v Speaker 6>but also VMO as well in terms of these murders,

951
00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:31.119
<v Speaker 6>But tell us about the ones that you think are

952
00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:35.280
<v Speaker 6>the most I guess controversial that you've uncovered in this

953
00:50:35.599 --> 00:50:40.000
<v Speaker 6>and you offer the proof that they're one and the same.

954
00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:43.519
<v Speaker 2>Well, one of the things is that his own base

955
00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:47.679
<v Speaker 2>really was around Sacramento for a very very long time,

956
00:50:48.039 --> 00:50:52.719
<v Speaker 2>for lifetime. And what happened is that he was able

957
00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:54.760
<v Speaker 2>to He loved to drive. He originally wanted to be

958
00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:58.480
<v Speaker 2>a California arbitral and that didn't work out. So it's

959
00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:01.000
<v Speaker 2>probably smarter for him to be just police officers so

960
00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:02.760
<v Speaker 2>that he could come and go and not be tracked

961
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:06.480
<v Speaker 2>quite as easily. But he was, you know, in and

962
00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:09.239
<v Speaker 2>around the areas, up and down the highways. He knew

963
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:14.559
<v Speaker 2>the areas very intimately, and he just repeated what he

964
00:51:14.679 --> 00:51:19.119
<v Speaker 2>was doing over and over. But he changed it up

965
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:23.559
<v Speaker 2>enough and threw enough confusion into the marriative always that

966
00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:26.559
<v Speaker 2>somehow they seem to not connect it. What's what was

967
00:51:26.599 --> 00:51:29.679
<v Speaker 2>really fascinating to me was reading about the crimes, the

968
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:32.920
<v Speaker 2>murders and Sacramento and the discussions that law enforcement had

969
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:36.920
<v Speaker 2>amongst themselves about maybe the by sailor manseckers of easter

970
00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:43.000
<v Speaker 2>A rapists. Nope, they let that go. Maybe the zodiac is,

971
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:46.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, here in Sacramento and he's killing these women

972
00:51:46.119 --> 00:51:50.000
<v Speaker 2>in Sacramento. No, never mind, So and then I'm not

973
00:51:50.039 --> 00:51:52.559
<v Speaker 2>being critical really of law enforcement. I know they had

974
00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:56.159
<v Speaker 2>their hands full, incredibly full with all the murders, but

975
00:51:56.719 --> 00:51:59.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's sort of like, why didn't anyone pursue

976
00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:03.800
<v Speaker 2>it more? Why was this guy allowed? If he killed

977
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:07.000
<v Speaker 2>five people the very first year, and he tried to

978
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:12.199
<v Speaker 2>kill seven that we know of, then he killed in

979
00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:15.119
<v Speaker 2>fifty years, he killed five a year. It's over two

980
00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:18.480
<v Speaker 2>hundred people. And that's the worst serial killer I've ever

981
00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:22.159
<v Speaker 2>heard of. But it shows in the records. You know,

982
00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:25.440
<v Speaker 2>there's so many primes out there that were committed that

983
00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:28.760
<v Speaker 2>they do have DNA. They should have DNA, they should

984
00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:30.760
<v Speaker 2>be testing them, and as far as I can tell,

985
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:34.440
<v Speaker 2>some of the jurisdictions are, but they are very silent

986
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:38.719
<v Speaker 2>and they're not telling anyone anything about what they're doing.

987
00:52:39.039 --> 00:52:42.159
<v Speaker 2>And my opinion is they might want to wait until

988
00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:44.320
<v Speaker 2>there's nobody to prosecute anymore.

989
00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:48.079
<v Speaker 6>You say that there was some use of this this

990
00:52:48.280 --> 00:52:55.039
<v Speaker 6>breakthrough genealgical advance of DNA advance used for the DiAngelo conviction,

991
00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:59.599
<v Speaker 6>and you say that since twenty eighteen it has been

992
00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:03.480
<v Speaker 6>used or since that time, has been used to convict.

993
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:07.599
<v Speaker 6>So tell us more about your idea about how the

994
00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:12.960
<v Speaker 6>Zodiac may be linked to DeAngelo overall through this forensic technology.

995
00:53:13.239 --> 00:53:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Well, like I said, with the Zodiac, there's really not

996
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:19.119
<v Speaker 2>anything that I'm aware of, and I'm sure that there

997
00:53:19.159 --> 00:53:22.280
<v Speaker 2>are people who have studied these cases for twenty thirty

998
00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:25.800
<v Speaker 2>forty years who may know of some sort of DNA

999
00:53:26.079 --> 00:53:30.079
<v Speaker 2>or something that could be tested for the Zodiac personally, don't.

1000
00:53:30.440 --> 00:53:33.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that because the criminalist that I listened

1001
00:53:33.880 --> 00:53:37.000
<v Speaker 2>to said that there really isn't any usable DNA. They

1002
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:39.880
<v Speaker 2>don't see that there will be any. People talk about

1003
00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:43.159
<v Speaker 2>a mustache here that was supposedly stuck underneath the stamp

1004
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:45.400
<v Speaker 2>and things like that, and you never hear of anything

1005
00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:51.280
<v Speaker 2>being tested. Now it's twenty twenty one, there's there everybody's silence.

1006
00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:54.079
<v Speaker 2>The FBI will say no, it's not him, but they

1007
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:57.159
<v Speaker 2>don't tell you who they think it is. I've talked

1008
00:53:57.199 --> 00:54:00.119
<v Speaker 2>to other jurisdictions who say, well, you're not You know

1009
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:02.840
<v Speaker 2>when who's thought that this? And of course, you know,

1010
00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:07.159
<v Speaker 2>anybody who is from California knows what went on, has

1011
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:09.320
<v Speaker 2>to have thought and they said it in the nineteen

1012
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:12.480
<v Speaker 2>seventies in the newspaper, maybe it's Zodiac who did this,

1013
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:17.320
<v Speaker 2>But they just didn't seem to pursue it and didn't

1014
00:54:17.320 --> 00:54:20.000
<v Speaker 2>come to resolve on so many cases. There's so many

1015
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:22.239
<v Speaker 2>cold cases. I can't even begin to tell you.

1016
00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:26.000
<v Speaker 6>Right, So, if there isn't any DNA from Zodiac, then

1017
00:54:26.119 --> 00:54:30.599
<v Speaker 6>what how do you expect anybody to check what you've done?

1018
00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:33.480
<v Speaker 6>I mean, you've done that again. This is an exhaustive

1019
00:54:33.519 --> 00:54:36.159
<v Speaker 6>investigation that you've done. But what do you expect from this?

1020
00:54:37.239 --> 00:54:39.400
<v Speaker 2>They can see, well, what they can see from it

1021
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:44.760
<v Speaker 2>is the patterns, the circumstantial evidence is there the same

1022
00:54:44.960 --> 00:54:48.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, types of attacks and what occurred. We can

1023
00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:52.320
<v Speaker 2>compare it and completely compare it to what D'Angelo did.

1024
00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:55.039
<v Speaker 2>We can track him and see where he was. Plenty

1025
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:58.119
<v Speaker 2>was someplace that he was available. And that's the other thing.

1026
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:00.920
<v Speaker 2>You see that he was available. You can track him

1027
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:03.039
<v Speaker 2>and see where he was and what he could have done.

1028
00:55:03.079 --> 00:55:06.840
<v Speaker 2>There's even one one disappearance and murder and the rape

1029
00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:11.679
<v Speaker 2>all the same night in September, the September attack, and

1030
00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:14.320
<v Speaker 2>we can see that there's an attack and I believe

1031
00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:17.199
<v Speaker 2>it was stucked in and he raped somebody and then

1032
00:55:17.239 --> 00:55:19.320
<v Speaker 2>he drives up the road a few hours a couple

1033
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:21.760
<v Speaker 2>hours actually wasn't in that far, probably that hour and

1034
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:25.400
<v Speaker 2>a half, and then somebody's abducted and murdered. So it's

1035
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:29.000
<v Speaker 2>not unusual for something like that to happen. He did that,

1036
00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:32.239
<v Speaker 2>as the story rapists, he would attack somebody and then

1037
00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:35.239
<v Speaker 2>a few hours later attack somebody else. One wasn't enough

1038
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:38.280
<v Speaker 2>for that night. And so there's so many things that

1039
00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:42.039
<v Speaker 2>are circumstantial that can be seen that you know, you

1040
00:55:42.039 --> 00:55:44.239
<v Speaker 2>can see that he was available, you can track where

1041
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:47.840
<v Speaker 2>he was when he was doing something, what area he

1042
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:50.519
<v Speaker 2>was in. You can see it. And monfersman can see it.

1043
00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:53.960
<v Speaker 2>They know it. They have to have him on their

1044
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:57.480
<v Speaker 2>suspect list for the Zodiac. They have to, and some

1045
00:55:57.559 --> 00:56:01.000
<v Speaker 2>of them that I've talked to do so it's just

1046
00:56:01.039 --> 00:56:03.440
<v Speaker 2>that nothing is forthcoming. Do you want of people don't

1047
00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:06.079
<v Speaker 2>want to see why? I just think that they don't

1048
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:09.599
<v Speaker 2>want the negative attention. It's huge. I mean, can you

1049
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:12.760
<v Speaker 2>imagine leaving a guy out there to kill five people

1050
00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:15.880
<v Speaker 2>a year or more for fifty years? Yeah, I mean

1051
00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:18.079
<v Speaker 2>why would you want to say, oh, he was a

1052
00:56:18.079 --> 00:56:21.079
<v Speaker 2>previous police officer and he killed all these people and

1053
00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:22.159
<v Speaker 2>he got away with it.

1054
00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:26.119
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I guess it's enough right now. The shame that's

1055
00:56:26.239 --> 00:56:30.199
<v Speaker 6>been brought to the profession from him as it is,

1056
00:56:30.639 --> 00:56:33.920
<v Speaker 6>and he wouldn't be the first serial killer that ended

1057
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:36.920
<v Speaker 6>up being a former police officer in this putting this

1058
00:56:37.000 --> 00:56:41.199
<v Speaker 6>incredible investigation in an analysis together, do you expect that

1059
00:56:41.280 --> 00:56:45.480
<v Speaker 6>some police haven't put everything together like you have and

1060
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:49.440
<v Speaker 6>have the ability to put things together so it's readable

1061
00:56:49.639 --> 00:56:52.280
<v Speaker 6>like yourself? And do you expect some police to take

1062
00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:53.840
<v Speaker 6>a look at what you've done?

1063
00:56:54.079 --> 00:56:55.880
<v Speaker 2>And yes, I do expect them to take a look

1064
00:56:55.880 --> 00:56:58.480
<v Speaker 2>at what I've done. Definitely, they're all going to get

1065
00:56:58.519 --> 00:57:01.239
<v Speaker 2>a copy of this MAC. I have an appoint with

1066
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:04.880
<v Speaker 2>one tomorrow in person to deliver it. But what I

1067
00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:08.159
<v Speaker 2>expect is is that they will be able to see

1068
00:57:08.159 --> 00:57:10.880
<v Speaker 2>it if they haven't already. But one of the problems

1069
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:14.239
<v Speaker 2>is is that one is the time involved. I'm able

1070
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:17.199
<v Speaker 2>to investigate twenty four to seven if I want to.

1071
00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:21.320
<v Speaker 2>They don't have the resources. They don't have the manpower,

1072
00:57:21.400 --> 00:57:26.000
<v Speaker 2>the woman power whatever to be able to, you know,

1073
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:29.239
<v Speaker 2>and investigate in depth like this. I mean, when you

1074
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:31.440
<v Speaker 2>sit for hours and hours and hours and look at

1075
00:57:31.480 --> 00:57:35.280
<v Speaker 2>what happened. They don't have the luxury of that. Typically.

1076
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:38.400
<v Speaker 2>I know that there's a couple of private investigators out

1077
00:57:38.400 --> 00:57:42.320
<v Speaker 2>there that do. And I think that eventually the story

1078
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:46.119
<v Speaker 2>will be told and it will be connected, and there

1079
00:57:46.159 --> 00:57:48.719
<v Speaker 2>are people that know parts of the story that they

1080
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:51.880
<v Speaker 2>don't know the whole story, and so I'm trying to

1081
00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:56.360
<v Speaker 2>make this cohesive and understood, and hopefully that that's what

1082
00:57:56.400 --> 00:57:56.840
<v Speaker 2>I've done.

1083
00:57:57.360 --> 00:57:59.519
<v Speaker 6>I think you really have. I want to thank you

1084
00:57:59.559 --> 00:58:02.159
<v Speaker 6>so much and for coming on and talking about your

1085
00:58:02.199 --> 00:58:07.760
<v Speaker 6>new book, very explosive book, Serial Slaughter, Zodiac Killer. Thank

1086
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:10.800
<v Speaker 6>you so much. And is there for people that might

1087
00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:13.800
<v Speaker 6>want to take a look at this work? Do you

1088
00:58:13.880 --> 00:58:17.519
<v Speaker 6>have a Facebook page, website, anything where people might find

1089
00:58:17.559 --> 00:58:18.280
<v Speaker 6>out more about this.

1090
00:58:18.639 --> 00:58:22.719
<v Speaker 2>Yes, there's a WordPress site, there's a Facebook page, there's Twitter.

1091
00:58:23.599 --> 00:58:26.880
<v Speaker 2>It's on Amazon and Barnes and Noble. And it was

1092
00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:29.519
<v Speaker 2>interesting the first day of published that I had it

1093
00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:32.559
<v Speaker 2>listed for free and quite a few people downloaded it.

1094
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:35.719
<v Speaker 2>So hopefully they have an opinion about it, and that's

1095
00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:37.760
<v Speaker 2>really what this is about. It's sort of like getting

1096
00:58:37.760 --> 00:58:39.760
<v Speaker 2>the word out and saying, hey, what do you think?

1097
00:58:40.239 --> 00:58:43.199
<v Speaker 2>What do you think about what's been presented here? And

1098
00:58:43.719 --> 00:58:45.280
<v Speaker 2>what will we do about it? Yeah?

1099
00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:48.119
<v Speaker 6>Absolutely, thank you so much and it's been a pleasure.

1100
00:58:48.440 --> 00:58:53.599
<v Speaker 6>Thanksal Slaughter A Killer. Thank you, good Night Pleasures, bybye,