Speaker 1: It might be time that we retire the bit.
Speaker 2: It might be time because it started out as a
Speaker 2: funny thing, and I know Zach is going to come
Speaker 2: on and pretend that he likes pit Pull. But Zach
Speaker 2: has been traveling, He's been busy. If you follow him
Speaker 2: on Instagram, he's been doing a bunch of things. So
Speaker 2: we haven't had him on for a while. And now
Speaker 2: I'm just remembering that the bit just ruins my day.
Speaker 2: I think it's time that we retire the pit bull
Speaker 2: a bit because you think that, well, Zach doesn't really
Speaker 2: like him. He's gonna come on and pretend that he does,
Speaker 2: but there's no way like in reality, he actually does.
Speaker 1: We'll leave it up to him. It's his walk up song,
Speaker 1: Zach off Air, how often are you rocking pit Pull?
Speaker 3: Every day? Then? He has at least four songs in
Speaker 3: My Favorite Songs playlist on Spotify.
Speaker 1: Do you feel me? Do you feel okay about yourself
Speaker 1: when you come on?
Speaker 3: Aaron?
Speaker 1: Just lie like this?
Speaker 3: You're lying, iereat I feel great about myself. I feel
Speaker 3: great about myself when I tell the truth about mister
Speaker 3: three h five, mister Worldwide. You're tapping your toe. I know,
Speaker 3: like I can't see you. And that's why you feel
Speaker 3: comfortable lying about this. It's a bit for you to
Speaker 3: be like, Oh, I don't like pitbull. I know it's
Speaker 3: in your car. I know it's I know it's on
Speaker 3: your on your pill at home.
Speaker 2: Come on, it's very much not. But how you been, man,
Speaker 2: it's been a while. Tell us give us an up date.
Speaker 2: You've been all over the place.
Speaker 3: I've been good. I feel like, Uh, there's been a
Speaker 3: how do I put this, there's been a pregnancy with
Speaker 3: my schedule. I don't mean that it's like a I
Speaker 3: just that there is. It's my schedule is growing constantly
Speaker 3: and I'm just waiting for that to to just explode
Speaker 3: and just not have that anymore. And I feel like
Speaker 3: now that we're down to one game a night, I
Speaker 3: feel like that birth has happened.
Speaker 1: So your water has broken. You're no longer traveling broken?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it's just like now I'm like, I'm like,
Speaker 3: what do I even do with my time? Now? There
Speaker 3: one game a night, one game a night. I feel
Speaker 3: like I don't even have a job anymore. This is incredible.
Speaker 1: Where are you right now?
Speaker 3: I'm in my apartment. This is crazy. I just been
Speaker 3: a week in a norns and trying to do my
Speaker 3: job and have fun at the same time was insane.
Speaker 1: Did you behave yourself even kind of?
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I mean I got my work done.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's all that matters. As long as you get
Speaker 1: the work done, you can do whatever you want, all.
Speaker 2: Right, Zach, We got to start here. The lottery's rigged.
Speaker 2: Everyone hates utah, no one loves jazz. Okay, So the
Speaker 2: fixes and what's going on? Man?
Speaker 1: How do we fix this?
Speaker 3: Uh? Well my my My solution is simple. Is one
Speaker 3: one we we we we lament tanking all year, right
Speaker 3: or at least half the year, or like this is bad,
Speaker 3: this is a bad it's bad for the product. And
Speaker 3: then the teams that tank don't get rewarded the last
Speaker 3: at least the last three years, and they're like, well,
Speaker 3: this is this is unfair. They did all this tanking,
Speaker 3: then you get rewarded and that's not that's not how
Speaker 3: that's supposed to go. So to eliminate tanking and to
Speaker 3: make this a more fair process, just it's a it's
Speaker 3: an unwined lottery one and fourteen chance you miss a
Speaker 3: playoff one fourteen. That way, there's no incentive to be
Speaker 3: as bad as the Wizards and the Jazz and the
Speaker 3: Hornets were this year. And in order to kind of
Speaker 3: try to stack the odds in your favor, is you know,
Speaker 3: to get that fourteen percent one in fourteen, like I just,
Speaker 3: I think it's a simple solution. I will never believe
Speaker 3: that teams are going to tank out of the playoffs
Speaker 3: in order to get a one in fourteen chance at
Speaker 3: the number one pick, Like I just, I think that
Speaker 3: is so ridiculous and fails to understand how NBA teams operate.
Speaker 3: And I think it will bring a better product to
Speaker 3: the to the last couple months of the season.
Speaker 2: Certainly, well while we're in the space, even though I
Speaker 2: am risking insulting your intelligence, and I find the conversation
Speaker 2: intellectually embarrassing. We do live in the modern day and
Speaker 2: age where if your guy doesn't win an election, you
Speaker 2: cry that it's stolen and you storm the capitol. And
Speaker 2: if your guy, if your team, if your team, I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's not I mean, let's be clear,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that wasn't the right thing to do.
Speaker 2: I'm just painting a picture. If your team didn't win,
Speaker 2: the ref got paid. If your kid doesn't make the team,
Speaker 2: the coach doesn't like you, Like, we cannot take l's
Speaker 2: in our society. So I am doing radio in a
Speaker 2: city full of people that believe this thing is rigged.
Speaker 1: Can you help us understand why it very much is not?
Speaker 3: Well? I mean, look, I can't be certain that it's not.
Speaker 3: I do know that there.
Speaker 1: Are you don't know what you just did. Oh no, hey, Porter,
Speaker 1: shut the tax line down. I don't want to hear
Speaker 1: from anybody.
Speaker 3: Oh I know. All I know is that I know
Speaker 3: several people that were in the room that that the
Speaker 3: lottery happened in. They believe it's on the up and up.
Speaker 3: They watched it, they experienced it. I got to take
Speaker 3: their work for it. I don't think that, you know,
Speaker 3: maybe we should check their bank accounts, but I don't
Speaker 3: think that, you know, there was some large sum of
Speaker 3: money or some you know, unmarked bills and a Duffel
Speaker 3: bag given to them. Like I like, we've had this
Speaker 3: process viewed by the media for a long time, and
Speaker 3: they write about it, they talk about it every year,
Speaker 3: and so you know, based on on knowing that, you know,
Speaker 3: I maybe I need to see it myself, but I
Speaker 3: feel like I feel like at this point, it's it
Speaker 3: seems it seems like pretty hard to rig. At the
Speaker 3: same time, there are some very coincidental, you know, moments
Speaker 3: in this lottery history that seem hilariously you know, pointed
Speaker 3: in one direction. I think it's I think it's funny.
Speaker 3: It also doesn't affect me negatively, so it's easy for
Speaker 3: me to find it funny. I understand why certain fan
Speaker 3: bases are upset. I just, man, it's hard to imagine
Speaker 3: you could rig that. But you know, everything's rigged these
Speaker 3: days if it doesn't go your way, like you said.
Speaker 2: Well, if I could speak for jazz fans, I just
Speaker 2: was hoping Mike Pence would do the right thing.
Speaker 1: That's where I'm at with it.
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I think maybe he should be in
Speaker 3: the room for the lottery.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm an idea.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: Look, here's the deal.
Speaker 2: The one team that could not win the thing to
Speaker 2: not inspire conspiracy theories won the thing.
Speaker 1: Like that's that's that's what.
Speaker 3: Happens for sure. And we had the same thing with
Speaker 3: New Orleans twice, right with the Anthony Davis draft and
Speaker 3: the Zion Williamson draft, and you know Cleveland wins it
Speaker 3: the year Lebron leaves, Like I mean, look, you have
Speaker 3: these moments where it does seem awfully coincidental Lebron, you know,
Speaker 3: the Lebron Draft, when you know Cleveland gets the number
Speaker 3: one pick, the Chicago gets it, when Derrick Rose is uilable, Like, yes,
Speaker 3: there are times where it seems impossible for this stuff
Speaker 3: to happen, and and you can point towards whatever, like
Speaker 3: it feels like those things where if you want to
Speaker 3: believe it, you can find a way to twist it right.
Speaker 3: It is so funny. I mean I was doing I
Speaker 3: was doing a you know, video or something for the
Speaker 3: athletic and we're doing this thing of like the best
Speaker 3: like who I wanted to see when the lottery and
Speaker 3: who I didn't want to see when the lottery of this,
Speaker 3: and I almost put in the top five of teams
Speaker 3: I want to see the lottery Dallas, And then I thought,
Speaker 3: now that's ridiculous, sense that could happen. And then of course,
Speaker 3: like as it gets down to there in the top four,
Speaker 3: I thought, oh my god, like they won this thing
Speaker 3: before I even saw the top like who won? Who
Speaker 3: was positioned in the top four, you just knew, like,
Speaker 3: of course they won this, like it's it's too funny. Well,
Speaker 3: I guess it's not funny to a few fan bases,
Speaker 3: but to me, it was too funny for it not
Speaker 3: to be them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for comedic purposes, not just Dallas at one,
Speaker 2: but the freaking Spurs it too, like give me a break?
Speaker 1: Bad?
Speaker 3: But all right, would it have been what do you
Speaker 3: would it have mattered? But I mean, I guess Jazz
Speaker 3: fans getting getting fifth like it sucks no matter what.
Speaker 3: But would they have felt better if it was the
Speaker 3: Spurs at one in Dallas at two or it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: I don't think it matters.
Speaker 2: I mean, as much as it's stinging folks around here
Speaker 2: that the Jazz fall to five. The other thing that
Speaker 2: you look at is you're already if you're the Jazz,
Speaker 2: you're already a mile behind OKC. You're already a mile
Speaker 2: behind even Houston and all the You know, you're a
Speaker 2: mile behind most of the teams in the West, but
Speaker 2: maybe some of the other teams are within shouting distance. Now,
Speaker 2: two of your Western Conference piers will will add two
Speaker 2: really good players to two rosters that already have a
Speaker 2: lot of really good players on them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that I mean that's fair. I mean I
Speaker 3: think the good news and maybe this is being mean,
Speaker 3: but like the good news is like you get out
Speaker 3: of the Ace Bailey situation, right, we think Like I
Speaker 3: think that, like, if you finish in that top two
Speaker 3: or three, you probably end up having to take him
Speaker 3: if you don't get the number one pick. And so
Speaker 3: maybe you, like I everything you read about and see
Speaker 3: about him, like it just seems like that's a guy
Speaker 3: like you kind of have to take in that zone.
Speaker 3: But I don't think he'll fallow. I mean, maybe we'll
Speaker 3: fall the five. I don't know. He just measured it
Speaker 3: like six seven. Yeah. I thought he was six to
Speaker 3: ten this whole time.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And if you fall I mean, maybe you view that
Speaker 2: as a win. Yeah, I think you do.
Speaker 1: I mean unless you fall in. I mean, look, you
Speaker 1: know the.
Speaker 2: Deal around here, folks are like, well, we can't get
Speaker 2: Cooper Flax, so let's get Conkinepple. It's like, let's not
Speaker 2: just do the best white guy possible, maybe get the
Speaker 2: best player.
Speaker 1: Who do you think? Who do you think is realistic
Speaker 1: at five?
Speaker 3: Though? It's a good question, Like, I mean the contint
Speaker 3: thing is like, yeah, like you could get a six
Speaker 3: five guy who plays like a six to one Like like,
Speaker 3: I like, he's good, he's skilled, but he plays so small. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I like, I don't understand the draw of a guy
Speaker 3: who plays so small for for what his height actually is.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess in the five range, like I've
Speaker 3: seen Trey Johnson, Like, I think Trey Johnson's really good,
Speaker 3: Like I don't. I don't think you want Derek Queen.
Speaker 3: I definitely don't think you want Conkiniple. I don't think
Speaker 3: Jeremiah Fears is like the right guy there. I'm a
Speaker 3: big Now you watch guy, like, I think there's so
Speaker 3: much potential there. And I know you have Walker Kessler
Speaker 3: as the center, but like, I just think that there
Speaker 3: is so much raw potential there and it's not like, oh,
Speaker 3: you've got to teach this guy's skill. He has great touch,
Speaker 3: he has great feel for the game. He's a good defender,
Speaker 3: he's a good rebounder, he's a good offensive player. His
Speaker 3: teammates rave about him, Like, I think that that is
Speaker 3: the guy with the highest upside outside of Cooper Flag
Speaker 3: and Dylan Harper. Now he may not reach that, but
Speaker 3: if your whole organization for a decade plus has been
Speaker 3: about we get guys and we developed them, and we
Speaker 3: bring that out of him. To me, that's the guy
Speaker 3: to develop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's an intriguing point. And yeah, the Walker
Speaker 2: stuff might be a little bit redundant. But I wonder
Speaker 2: if you think the Jazz have what it takes to
Speaker 2: I don't think it, you know, And even Tim McMahon
Speaker 2: reported this week that the ownership in Dallas has handed
Speaker 2: the edict down, like Nico, you're not allowed to trade it. Okay,
Speaker 2: we are keeping it and we are drafting Cooper Flag,
Speaker 2: So stay out of the room. But do you think
Speaker 2: there's any world where san Antonio looks at Daron Fox
Speaker 2: and Stefan Castle and says, Dylan Harper is a little
Speaker 2: redundant and maybe somebody can grab number two. Do you
Speaker 2: think the Jash get involved in something like that.
Speaker 3: I think they absolutely absolutely should. I mean, I think
Speaker 3: with their with their you know, kind of treasure trove
Speaker 3: of picks and their young guys, and even I mean,
Speaker 3: if I'm I know, this sounds maybe a little ridiculous,
Speaker 3: or maybe it doesn't. I don't know, if I'm Utah,
Speaker 3: maybe this isn't getting enough back, and you've got to
Speaker 3: figure out a way. I would dangle out Larry marka
Speaker 3: then like hey you want this guy next to Wenby.
Speaker 3: Here's a shooter that will spread the floor. We got
Speaker 3: we go get the number two bad and you really
Speaker 3: start like, all right, you believe in Dylan Harper, Like
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I know the marketing and everything. Dylan
Speaker 3: Harper is way better than Isaiah Collier and can't George
Speaker 3: just went way better, way better, right, Like you don't
Speaker 3: have to do that thing anymore where it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: you pass John Stockton's record, like like he's legit, He's
Speaker 3: a legit point guard prospect, and so like you need
Speaker 3: more back than just the number two pick. Lowry is
Speaker 3: obviously awesome, but like you maybe have to get aggressive
Speaker 3: in that. And since you're now accepting that you're in
Speaker 3: a rebuild one year into a three year rebuild, now
Speaker 3: you can actually lean into it and and go get
Speaker 3: whatever that is and maybe bring in you know, whether
Speaker 3: that's a Kelton Johnson, maybe it's maybe you. I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know if they would do two and Stephan Castle,
Speaker 3: like that seems aggressive. I don't think they would do that,
Speaker 3: but like you, they have a lot of pieces that
Speaker 3: you can go get and maybe get involved in three
Speaker 3: seen deals. Like I just I think there, I think
Speaker 3: it would make sense for the Jazz to be very
Speaker 3: aggressive with trying to go grab a higher pick in
Speaker 3: this while still holding on to the to the fifth
Speaker 3: pick where you can still get a very good player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think one of the main issues
Speaker 2: that you could run into there is san Antonio could
Speaker 2: probably get a lot for two, right and do they
Speaker 2: write you know, do.
Speaker 1: They do they?
Speaker 2: And look, Lowry's really good. So I'm not trying to
Speaker 2: disparage litar marketing. But you call san Antonio and you
Speaker 2: offer them five in marketing for two they also have fourteen,
Speaker 2: You get a late lottery pick and maybe a piece
Speaker 2: from them, and then you reset and you start over
Speaker 2: with a legitimate piece because they're not going to be
Speaker 2: able to get to one to get Cooper Flag. I
Speaker 2: have all these friends like, hey, they should trade to one,
Speaker 2: they should trade up to one and get Flag. I'm like,
Speaker 2: they should do that, but you need two people to
Speaker 2: agree to such transactions. So could you get two and
Speaker 2: fourteen and a piece from san Antonio for five in marketing,
Speaker 2: or could san Antonio get a lot more than that
Speaker 2: for two because so many people love doing Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Just I don't know if I just don't know if
Speaker 3: you need to include five, Like I don't know that
Speaker 3: those players are going to be out on the market.
Speaker 3: Like I know there's the talk of Kevin Durant. Do
Speaker 3: we know that they want to go sell a bunch
Speaker 3: of assets for a couple of years of Kevin Durant?
Speaker 3: I don't think that doesn't seem like the move that
Speaker 3: they would do, Like, you know, for what we know
Speaker 3: about that organization, I don't really believe that Giannis is
Speaker 3: going to be on the table. I don't really believe
Speaker 3: that Booker is going to be on the table. Like
Speaker 3: if we're starting to look at you know, star and
Speaker 3: maybe I'm wrong about all that stuff, but if we're
Speaker 3: starting to look at like stars who could be available,
Speaker 3: you know, a player like marketing might be as good
Speaker 3: as a gift. Now, it doesn't mean you have to
Speaker 3: make a trade if you're if you're San Antonio, but
Speaker 3: I don't I don't know that you have to if
Speaker 3: I'm Utah, I'm not really dangling that fifth pick in
Speaker 3: that trade unless it is a very aggressive trade market.
Speaker 3: They do have all these teams throwing that in, and
Speaker 3: then you do have to include.
Speaker 1: That, do you think. I mean?
Speaker 2: Look, I would sound like the biggest hypocrite in the
Speaker 2: world if I sat here and said, man, there was
Speaker 2: the wrong approach this year to intentionally lose because I
Speaker 2: believed it was the right thing to do, and I
Speaker 2: believed it was the right thing to do when women
Speaker 2: Yama was available. After you move on from Mitchell and Gobert,
Speaker 2: but I also have to acknowledge at this point that
Speaker 2: since the odds were flattened in twenty nineteen, literally zero
Speaker 2: of the teams that the Jazz that did what the
Speaker 2: Jazz tried to do this year have been rewarded with
Speaker 2: the number one overall pick. Tim Bontemps had a piece
Speaker 2: up on the dot com for ESPN citing a number
Speaker 2: of different front office executives that all seem to be
Speaker 2: in lockstep that they're glad that the Jazz and the
Speaker 2: Wizards were not rewarded for having a lack of integrity
Speaker 2: of trying to build a team that actually competes for real?
Speaker 2: Are we moving into a space where you no longer
Speaker 2: want to lose intentionally, even though in a city like
Speaker 2: Saul Lake, it does feel like the only way to
Speaker 2: get a Cooper flag or a generational piece is to
Speaker 2: have the top one or two picks in the draft.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting to consider.
Speaker 2: The vote for flattening the odds was twenty nine to one,
Speaker 2: and the one dissenting vote was Sam Presting in Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City because his point was, we're in Oklahoma City, Like,
Speaker 2: it's not easy to get stars here. Obviously they've done it,
Speaker 2: But does the approach change at some point now that
Speaker 2: the data is in that losing intentionally guarantees you nothing.
Speaker 3: I mean it guarantees you nothing. But did anybody watch
Speaker 3: that twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three's first team. They
Speaker 3: were pretty terrible.
Speaker 1: They were worked out for them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they weren't the worst, but I mean no, Like,
Speaker 3: the process is the process. Not to go off Sam
Speaker 3: Hanky on it, you know, but like the process is
Speaker 3: the process. Like it it is still the best avenue
Speaker 3: towards getting one of those guys in the draft. Just
Speaker 3: because it hasn't worked the last three years in terms
Speaker 3: of the worst team getting that doesn't mean the other
Speaker 3: teams who have tried you know, have tried to to
Speaker 3: to tank and improve their position. I mean, Washington was
Speaker 3: terrible last year they had with the two pick, you know,
Speaker 3: Like I mean this year, it was a it was
Speaker 3: a high profile class and you had two good teams. Well,
Speaker 3: I mean san Antoni wasn't good, but they were supposed
Speaker 3: to be good, right, and because Wendy's injury and everything,
Speaker 3: but you had two good teams or you know, supposedly
Speaker 3: good team with a lot of talent end up at
Speaker 3: the top of the draft. I still believe, Like to me,
Speaker 3: this is this is reminiscent of like a few years ago,
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, it was like, hey, I don't
Speaker 3: know if you want a Big three, you know, I
Speaker 3: don't know if teams want three superstars instead of two
Speaker 3: super superstars. And this was before the CBA got changed everything.
Speaker 3: It's like, no, they want as many stars as they
Speaker 3: can get, like they like this. We can sometimes overthink
Speaker 3: this stuff because of the results. The process is still
Speaker 3: to get the best odds in your favor. And so
Speaker 3: until they change it, I still believe that's going to happen.
Speaker 3: Like if if I'm going to butcher the kid's name,
Speaker 3: but the you know, aj the kid for that's going
Speaker 3: to BYU. If he is, you know, the one everyone
Speaker 3: tanks for next year, and one of those teams tanks
Speaker 3: and gets him, it's just going to reinforce the tanking process.
Speaker 3: Like unless the NBA truly is rigging this thing to
Speaker 3: get the non tanking teams to to get that top
Speaker 3: pick to dissuade, you know, anyone from from trying this process,
Speaker 3: Like that's that's the only thing that's going to make
Speaker 3: that painting option not actually look attractive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And obviously the reaction this week is President of
Speaker 2: the moment with what happened Monday night. But what what
Speaker 2: what does Philly do at three? I mean we've talked
Speaker 2: Dallas and San Antonio. I mean, technically, they have two
Speaker 2: really good players that I'm gonna say went healthy because
Speaker 2: you have to are still kind of game changers. Do
Speaker 2: you do you think they could move that pick to
Speaker 2: try to get Embiid and Paul George and MAXI veteran
Speaker 2: help or have they seen enough that these dudes just
Speaker 2: don't stay healthy and we've got to move on.
Speaker 3: Yeah? I don't think they move on. I think they're
Speaker 3: kind of pot committed, at least for another year because
Speaker 3: who I mean, who knows what you know, what operations
Speaker 3: or procedures that they'll they'll hope work on embiid for
Speaker 3: getting him ready for next playoffs. But yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: it's a it's a weird position because they can't get
Speaker 3: a really good talent, right if you do believe that
Speaker 3: you can develop Ace Bailey into something, if you do believe,
Speaker 3: you know, one of these other guys is someone who
Speaker 3: can become a star of Trey Johnson, someone like that.
Speaker 3: You know, I've seen bj edgecom kind of get uh
Speaker 3: mocked there. I you know, I like him. I don't
Speaker 3: know if that's like number three, pick good crazy athlete,
Speaker 3: decent shooter, doesn't really move the ball, you know, I
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't really know that there's a good,
Speaker 3: you know, natural fit there at three. So I would
Speaker 3: say you either swing for the guy with the highest potential,
Speaker 3: and if you think that's Ace Bailey, then you just
Speaker 3: you do it, and you hope Paul George is an
Speaker 3: incredible influence in terms of you know, development and professionalism
Speaker 3: and everything. Because look, we can make a lot of
Speaker 3: jokes about Paul George, He's still an incredible player, right,
Speaker 3: Like like, yes, he can be he can be a
Speaker 3: punching bag atizer, but he's still an incredible player. And
Speaker 3: so you do put him, you know, ace under his wing,
Speaker 3: like you you maybe get a great just mentorship there
Speaker 3: to to set him on the right path. Darryl Morey
Speaker 3: said that they plan to keep it. So if you're
Speaker 3: James Harden, you know, elsewhere in the world, you believe
Speaker 3: that he's lying, you know. I don't know, but I
Speaker 3: think they should explore it. Like I think you that
Speaker 3: team needs as much better in help as possible. They need,
Speaker 3: like they need they think guys who can play. Now
Speaker 3: this isn't a two timeline situation, like they need guys
Speaker 3: who can who can play and be helping actually play now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure.
Speaker 2: All right, remaining a few minutes to talk about teams
Speaker 2: that are actually still playing basketball, and we'll start out east.
Speaker 1: You know, Zach, you like dogs, I do, all right.
Speaker 2: So I've come to the conclusion that Donovan is a
Speaker 2: golden doodle. And you love golden doodles, and you can
Speaker 2: bring them to the dog park and sometimes they drop fifty, right,
Speaker 2: and sometimes they'll win a dog show. And but Indiana's
Speaker 2: got pit bulls. I mean they just Hey, look, Donovan
Speaker 2: had plenty of really good playoff games, and he always does.
Speaker 2: It's just when the moments demand toughness and physicality. We
Speaker 2: saw it here and we're seeing it in Cleveland. There's
Speaker 2: just something about him that doesn't exude that toughness when
Speaker 2: the moment is is requiring toughness. And he can do
Speaker 2: a postgame press conference where he drops f bombs and
Speaker 2: you guys are gonna write this and I'm getting.
Speaker 3: In the gym.
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, your takeaways from Indiana taking care
Speaker 2: of Cleveland.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny, like I like the past few years,
Speaker 3: I've been banging this drum of like his playoff reputation
Speaker 3: is not earned, you know, like this is outdated. I
Speaker 3: didn't feel that way after this series. I felt like
Speaker 3: he was making a lot of like the good decisions
Speaker 3: and the good plays of what he's supposed to do.
Speaker 3: And then eventually was looking around halfway through a game,
Speaker 3: you know, the last one excluded or whichever one they
Speaker 3: were down forty at, you know, at halftime, like looking
Speaker 3: around like you know and going, hey, is anyone going
Speaker 3: to join me here?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Because anyone wanted to play and then he would just
Speaker 3: kind of have to take this on himself and either
Speaker 3: run out of gas or he just didn't have it
Speaker 3: or you know, like you said, like sometimes he's gonna
Speaker 3: drop fifty and sometimes he's just gonna be a golden
Speaker 3: doodle that is just there. And and I just that
Speaker 3: team is just mentally week. We've seen it for three
Speaker 3: straight years and every time they have an excuse every time,
Speaker 3: and when you're on year three, it's like, yeah, but
Speaker 3: his toe hurt, or yeah but they had this, or
Speaker 3: yeah but that Like Okay, great, you can't. Yeah but
Speaker 3: your way to the championship. You just can't. And you're
Speaker 3: on year three and this year, none of those guys
Speaker 3: could hit a shot. None of those guys won the ball.
Speaker 3: I saw like Donovan just go like, Okay, I guess
Speaker 3: I have to do this, you know, like you know
Speaker 3: to like, yeah he can everything you just said is
Speaker 3: is one hundred percent correct, Like he he can do
Speaker 3: all those quotes and all that stuff, and it kind
Speaker 3: of turns you into like the guard version of Karl
Speaker 3: Anthony Towns in Minnesota, right where like yeah that all
Speaker 3: that speak is great, but you got to got to
Speaker 3: deliver at some point, and but I looked around and
Speaker 3: like Mobley shriveled up. Darius Garland. I know he had
Speaker 3: the toe injury and everything. Man, that dude's never been
Speaker 3: that dude in the playoffs. I'm sorry, like he just
Speaker 3: like I was having this argument with a couple of friends,
Speaker 3: like if they had Andrew Nemhart and stead Darius Garland,
Speaker 3: they win that series. Like you're right, like Indiana's a
Speaker 3: bunch of dogs. Like those guys are tough, those guys
Speaker 3: are fearless. Those guys are ready to play in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: Nobody on Cleveland was ready to play. And I just
Speaker 3: I look at that and I think, I think, yeah,
Speaker 3: you can run it back, and the whole Tatum injury
Speaker 3: changes things, but they're still gonna be soft next year
Speaker 3: when it comes to the postseason. I'm still like, what changes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, do the Knicks get it done? It
Speaker 2: feels like they have to get it done tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's a great question. I do kind
Speaker 3: of just think that was like, are you going to
Speaker 3: get that game where you rally around the Tatum injury
Speaker 3: and you're at home and shots fall? But man, it
Speaker 3: is the Knicks, right if anybody was gonna do it,
Speaker 3: it's the Knicks. And this is still a really good team.
Speaker 3: Like I actually thought the offense flowed really well and
Speaker 3: it helps when the shots are falling for Boston, but
Speaker 3: they were forced to play a more team oriented thing.
Speaker 3: They didn't have like two guys who could just go
Speaker 3: one on one and create stuff. They really had to
Speaker 3: get into the lane and make that ball move and
Speaker 3: and and you know we saw that in the second
Speaker 3: half especially, And so if they can play that way
Speaker 3: Ian Madison Square Garden, whether the shots fall or not,
Speaker 3: if they play that style of ball, it's going to
Speaker 3: frustrate the Knicks. But like I mean, I gotta take
Speaker 3: the Knicks here, come on, Like I just like I
Speaker 3: even the Knicks got to close this one out. We
Speaker 3: got to get Knicks pacers like round two for this
Speaker 3: they just I man, I would feel so bad as
Speaker 3: the Knicks fans if this one goes that way. That
Speaker 3: can't happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I said, I feel like that if they
Speaker 2: don't get it done tomorrow, man, Sunday is going to
Speaker 2: be nerve racking tough. Yeah, all right, let's move over
Speaker 2: to you know, I feel like I was just waiting
Speaker 2: for Jimmy Butler to be who he was a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago when he carried the Heat to the
Speaker 2: finals by himself after Steph went down. But then you
Speaker 2: look at everything Minnesota can throw at him, and I
Speaker 2: don't know, I still was kind of waiting for him
Speaker 2: to take over in a way that just never happened.
Speaker 2: And you know, Boston can look really connected without Tatum,
Speaker 2: and Golden State is just lost without Steph.
Speaker 1: So takeaways from Minnesota taking care of our Golden State.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they just you know, it's that Miami
Speaker 3: team was built a certain way to play around Jimmy
Speaker 3: and maybe if there's more familiarity throughout a season or
Speaker 3: a couple of seasons, maybe you can find that. But One,
Speaker 3: there just there's not a lot of shooting on that
Speaker 3: team when STEP's not there, you know. And and two,
Speaker 3: like I just I don't know that he was ready
Speaker 3: to do that, you know, I don't know that. You know,
Speaker 3: he's got Jade McDaniels and Jullis Randall's playing the best
Speaker 3: ball of his life, and they've got you know, Nikkel
Speaker 3: Alexander Walker, They've got at like, they've just got a
Speaker 3: lot of guys that they like, like you said that,
Speaker 3: they can throw at Jimmy and and there's just not
Speaker 3: a lot of spacing there. And you know, Minnesota's you know,
Speaker 3: Minnesota might be the better team even when Steph is there.
Speaker 3: Like Minnesota is good. Yeah, is a good team. They
Speaker 3: turned the ball over a lot and they you know,
Speaker 3: if they play okay see in the next round, they
Speaker 3: have to clean that up. But that is a team
Speaker 3: that can't like they're good enough to win a champ.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah they are.
Speaker 2: No, I agree, probably should have been paying more attention
Speaker 2: to them than most people were.
Speaker 1: All Right, final thing.
Speaker 2: I won't write Denver off until they're done because of
Speaker 2: the respect to have for Jokic, But man are they
Speaker 2: thin and Jamal Murray is questionable with an illness. Okay see,
Speaker 2: is a five point favorite in Denver Tonight does it
Speaker 2: end or does it go to seven?
Speaker 1: In OKC.
Speaker 3: It feels like this series deserves a game seven right now.
Speaker 3: I also feel like that Game seven could be a
Speaker 3: forty five point win for the Thunder. Like I don't
Speaker 3: think we're I don't think we're guaranteed a great finish,
Speaker 3: but I do feel like we're guaranteed a Game seven
Speaker 3: I think we're gonna get a great jokicch game. Regardless
Speaker 3: he had three miserable games, and he was he was
Speaker 3: fantastic last game, even though his teammates let him down.
Speaker 3: Is I just the role players at home? They got
Speaker 3: to play better. They at least got to hit a
Speaker 3: couple of shots in the fourth quarter they hit. If
Speaker 3: they hit like four shots in the fourth quarter, Denver
Speaker 3: wins that game. Like they hit one, they hit one
Speaker 3: around him. If they hit four more, they like, they
Speaker 3: win that game. And so I don't think that's asking
Speaker 3: a lot. I think, okay, see on the road might
Speaker 3: struggle a little bit there. So I'm gonna say they
Speaker 3: get it done. But I have zero confidence in anybody
Speaker 3: not named Nikolijokic.
Speaker 2: I'm with you there, Zach. Good to talk to you, man,
Speaker 2: it's been too long. Glad the travelers went well, and
Speaker 2: enjoy the games. We'll chat too, ballet Oh dear nine
Speaker 2: to do it. It was such a good interview until
Speaker 2: the end.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: The Great Zach Harper at tak hoops on Twitter writes
Speaker 2: for the Athletic covers the NBA. He has a newsletter
Speaker 2: called The Bounce and then does a couple of different podcasts,
Speaker 2: including Cinfo, which is a fun movie podcast.
Speaker 1: He works his tailoff so support his work.