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Speaker 3: Here's your host, Robert Manny.
Speaker 5: Welcome to Guys Guys Radio. This is your host, Robert Manny,
Speaker 5: welcoming you to the show where men and women can
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Speaker 4: Guys Guys Radio.
Speaker 5: We're here to inform you, inspire you, empower you, and
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Speaker 5: act by virtue of the journeys, stories, experiences and sites
Speaker 5: of the guests I bring you each and every week
Speaker 5: to the show. Once again, this week is no exception.
Speaker 5: Today we're going to talk about kind of the different
Speaker 5: stages of aging. And I think this is a really
Speaker 5: good show for guys because our special guest is Kenneth
Speaker 5: Lacret's PhD. He's written a really wonderful book called Remembering
Speaker 5: Self Seasons of the Soul Rediscovered through Mystical Experience and
Speaker 5: depth Psychology. It's really about how to how to really
Speaker 5: go back and peel the layers away and learn and
Speaker 5: rediscover who you really are. And I think that's important
Speaker 5: particularly for us, for us boomer guys out there, because
Speaker 5: throughout our lives we're kind of told by the cultural narrative, well,
Speaker 5: you're this age and here's your role, and you're that
Speaker 5: age and here's your role, and eventually you're too old,
Speaker 5: get out.
Speaker 6: Of the way. Well, it doesn't have to be that way.
Speaker 6: And I'm sure you or you have.
Speaker 5: Friends if you are a boomer, no, a lot of
Speaker 5: different folks who really define themselves via their job and
Speaker 5: their wallet, if you will, And it gets to a
Speaker 5: certain point where they get a little bit concerned because
Speaker 5: they don't want to they don't want to leave that
Speaker 5: work they've done. And I have friends who are in
Speaker 5: their seventies and they put on the tie and sport
Speaker 5: code and they go to work every day and you know,
Speaker 5: they enjoy it, but also maybe maybe they're wondering what's
Speaker 5: next after this and they haven't really come to terms
Speaker 5: with their identity. So we're going to get into that
Speaker 5: and a lot more. It's really like, you know, what
Speaker 5: if midlife isn't a crisis, but it's a spiritual awakening,
Speaker 5: and I think that can happen for anybody at any time.
Speaker 5: But we're going to get into how to manage the
Speaker 5: life stages and how to kind of transcend from aging
Speaker 5: to eldering and really being.
Speaker 6: A beacon of light to help other people.
Speaker 5: So I think you're going to enjoy my conversation with
Speaker 5: doctor Ken Lacret's right here on Guys.
Speaker 4: Guys Radio. It's Guys Guy Radio.
Speaker 5: Okay, guys, guys Radio. It is the interview portion of
Speaker 5: our show. And hey, you know, guys, when we talk
Speaker 5: about growth, we usually focus on achievement, career, relationships, money, status.
Speaker 5: But what happens when life asks us to go deeper?
Speaker 5: What happens when the old starts calling louder than the ego?
Speaker 6: Sometimes that's a good thing.
Speaker 5: My guest tonight is clinical psychologist, Youngian analyst and author
Speaker 5: Kenneth R. Lacret's PhD, whose powerful new book Remembering Self
Speaker 5: Guidance for the Labyrinth of Life and Beyond explores a
Speaker 5: psychological and spiritual journey through midlife elderhood.
Speaker 6: And we'll get.
Speaker 5: Into that identity, attachment, soul evolution, and what it really
Speaker 5: means to become whole that's a big task, but we're
Speaker 5: going to get into it. We're going to talk about mind, body, spirit, young,
Speaker 5: shadow work, the four seasons of life, and the mysterious
Speaker 5: Guide at.
Speaker 6: The center of the book. Sheima.
Speaker 5: So, welcome to guys, guys radio Doctor Kenneth Lacretz, PhD.
Speaker 7: How are you, doctor, I'm doing well this morning. Thank
Speaker 7: you for inviting me on the show.
Speaker 6: Fantastic.
Speaker 5: So why do you think, doctor, so many successful people
Speaker 5: reach midlife feeling disconnected, restless, or spiritually emptied despite having
Speaker 5: it all. You know a lot of guys, particularly in
Speaker 5: the boomer airs, and I would, uh, I would take
Speaker 5: a chance and say, you're probably just about in the
Speaker 5: boomer age.
Speaker 6: I'm I'm a boomer and I know so many of
Speaker 6: my friends.
Speaker 5: Uh uh they you know, their their identity is tethered
Speaker 5: to their position.
Speaker 6: A lot of them won't retire. They don't need the money.
Speaker 5: They like to put the tie on and get on
Speaker 5: the train and go to work, and uh they.
Speaker 6: Just won't let it go.
Speaker 5: And I think a lot of it's about power and
Speaker 5: identity and and money and comfort and fear and all
Speaker 5: of the rest. But you're the you're this here, the
Speaker 5: young in psychoanalyst here, so tell us what we need
Speaker 5: to know.
Speaker 7: Well, you know what I'm going to do is I'm
Speaker 7: going to begin with a history lesson, okay, because I
Speaker 7: think that we we can't fully understand where we are
Speaker 7: without understanding history and what history has brought us to,
Speaker 7: particularly in the in the modern era, and we're kind
Speaker 7: of in a post modernest time is it's brought us
Speaker 7: into a peak differentiation of the ego from the ground
Speaker 7: of self or from the ground of being. And you
Speaker 7: could say, if you looked at it pictorially, that the
Speaker 7: ego is kind of at high noon in terms of
Speaker 7: its separation from the self. Now, what happens when it
Speaker 7: reaches high noon is we find ourselves in a period
Speaker 7: of alienation from the ground of who we are and
Speaker 7: symptoms start to emerge at that point, which starts to
Speaker 7: take us into midlife. But what happens is people find
Speaker 7: themselves so identified with the ego because they think that
Speaker 7: that's who they are, they think that that's all there is,
Speaker 7: that they're very resistant to make these kinds of shifts
Speaker 7: that we think are appropriate second half of life shifts.
Speaker 7: But why would we make a shift like that if
Speaker 7: we think this is who we are, and the ground
Speaker 7: of being is so silent, it is so distant, it's
Speaker 7: so detached that we in the modern era believe that
Speaker 7: there's nothing to shift into.
Speaker 6: Amazing.
Speaker 5: So, you know, young who you studied extensively, spoke about individuation,
Speaker 5: the process of becoming whole. How does your book Remembering
Speaker 5: Self expand upon or personalize that concept.
Speaker 7: What I try to do in the book is bring
Speaker 7: it into a story, because I think that a story particularly,
Speaker 7: and this is about a figure named Shemah who is
Speaker 7: at the end of his life. He's ninety three years
Speaker 7: old and he's reviewing his life, and he's able to
Speaker 7: see from a transcendent lens and also from a very
Speaker 7: imminent personal lens, and he's able to trace his life back. Now,
Speaker 7: what we see when we trace our lives back as
Speaker 7: we see the growth of the ego, which is an
Speaker 7: unfolding and a differentiating process. It is not about wholeness
Speaker 7: per se. It's about leaving a ground of unconscious, undifferentiated wholeness.
Speaker 7: It's about developing an articulated personality that functions in the
Speaker 7: human matrix of life. You know, that builds attachments to
Speaker 7: their lives attachments to their identity that becomes a student
Speaker 7: and a son or a daughter eventually an adult and
Speaker 7: someone who can function in the adult world hopefully. And
Speaker 7: that's the whole idea of building a solid vessel of ego,
Speaker 7: is that we can actually function in a world and
Speaker 7: build a structure in that world through career and marriage
Speaker 7: and family that can hold the depth of the task
Speaker 7: of adulthood. Now through the story, what we find is
Speaker 7: that there is also there's a phase a mid life,
Speaker 7: and we go through many transitional phases throughout life, but
Speaker 7: there's a phase of mid life in which this structure
Speaker 7: begins to collapse. And when the structure collapses, we begin
Speaker 7: searching in the kind of the dry soil or some
Speaker 7: new meaning. But it's very difficult to find at the
Speaker 7: level of ego, because the true source of meaning is
Speaker 7: the connection to the ground of being that we have
Speaker 7: spent our entire first half of life leaving correct And
Speaker 7: so we get to that point and we go through
Speaker 7: what the alchemists call it's a solvent phase or a
Speaker 7: disillusion phase, not disillusion but disillus, which means for things
Speaker 7: to kind of begin to dissolve and loosen up, and
Speaker 7: we start to get glimpses at what's underneath and what
Speaker 7: we move from a what I think of is a
Speaker 7: descending phase, which is we're descending into the body, into
Speaker 7: the life, incarnating fully into the human identity. And then
Speaker 7: what happens is we start shifting into what some believe
Speaker 7: is an ascension phase. And this ascension phase is emergence
Speaker 7: of the ground. It's emergence of the self. Now, when
Speaker 7: the self begins to emerge and wants to begin to
Speaker 7: have a central role in identity and in life, there
Speaker 7: has to be an integrative process, and some would call
Speaker 7: it reintegration. Okay, and this is what young talk a
Speaker 7: great deal about. An individuation is individuation means to be undivided.
Speaker 7: But what happens is we spend the first half of
Speaker 7: our life dividing. Okay, we divide into many dimensions of
Speaker 7: who we are. And and through this dividing process, we
Speaker 7: actually become so alienated from self for a lot of reasons,
Speaker 7: because the identity can't hold everything. And so what we're
Speaker 7: doing in the second half of life is we're beginning
Speaker 7: to recollect, not just memory. Recollection, that's part of it,
Speaker 7: and that's why the remembering title is there, but we
Speaker 7: start to remember and we start to recollect all of
Speaker 7: the dimensions and pieces and parts of self that have
Speaker 7: been split off and abandoned, and we start to move
Speaker 7: toward an undivided state, Okay, which is what you would
Speaker 7: many talk about is wholeness, and that's what individuation is.
Speaker 7: It means to be undivided.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 5: My special guest on this week's Guys Guys Radio, doctor
Speaker 5: Kenneth R.
Speaker 6: Lacret's PhD. The book.
Speaker 5: I'm holding it up right here for your YouTube and
Speaker 5: Rumble viewers, Remembering Self Seasons of the soul rediscovered through
Speaker 5: mystical experience and depth psychology. So this process and path
Speaker 5: that you're describing, doctor, is this something that is specific
Speaker 5: to our Western culture or is this a universal concept?
Speaker 7: You know, it's definitely a universal concept because what we
Speaker 7: we if you look collectively throughout history and you know,
Speaker 7: independent of geography, what we saw during the period of
Speaker 7: eight hundred BC to about five hundred you know AD,
Speaker 7: is we saw what we call the first axial age.
Speaker 7: And the first axial Age happened everywhere in the known
Speaker 7: world at once. It was a very mysterious process. It's
Speaker 7: when philosophy and religion started to emerge, and this was
Speaker 7: the first step in the differentiation of the ego and
Speaker 7: the kind of the birth of the ego from the
Speaker 7: self where began to start. We began reflecting on ourselves.
Speaker 7: So there was actually two dimensions. There's the ground of
Speaker 7: being and there's the reflecting ego, which is an extension
Speaker 7: of this ground to being. Was born from this ground
Speaker 7: to being, and it's what some would call an organ
Speaker 7: of the psyche and so being the first stage. What
Speaker 7: we've seen throughout Western civilization in particular, is we've seen
Speaker 7: constant differentiation up until the period of about nineteen hundred,
Speaker 7: where collectively we were going through the same process of
Speaker 7: this differentiation that we now go through in the first
Speaker 7: half of life. Okay, so this was happening everywhere all
Speaker 7: at once, and so different cultures looked at this differentiation
Speaker 7: and this separation from unity differently. They had different names
Speaker 7: for it, they had different processes. But I think that
Speaker 7: Eyung and the Western you know, movement of psychology, which
Speaker 7: really began during the nineteen hundreds and the twentieth century,
Speaker 7: was I think, you know, an attempt to make our
Speaker 7: way back through through the consulting room, you know, through
Speaker 7: the clinic, through the ground of who we are. Now.
Speaker 7: Other religions have done that through Buddhism has done that
Speaker 7: through meditation. Other religions have had many different ways. Yoga,
Speaker 7: the Yoga tradition had different their way of making their
Speaker 7: way back to the ground of being. In the West,
Speaker 7: we have looked at it from from kind of a
Speaker 7: psychiatric and psychological point of view, where we see it
Speaker 7: as a clinical process to make our way back to
Speaker 7: this unity.
Speaker 5: So it sounds like, you know, since all the cultures
Speaker 5: go through the same thing, and from my perspective, we're
Speaker 5: given roles. We're given a narrative by our culture, which
Speaker 5: basically is, as kind of you described, you're a student
Speaker 5: at a certain age and then you're the worker and
Speaker 5: you're learning things, and that creates some type of ego
Speaker 5: comfort for us. A vessel starts to get filled up.
Speaker 5: But then it can become too much because we're relying
Speaker 5: on the narrative to define who we are. There must
Speaker 5: be a balance there that we can find. So instead
Speaker 5: of waiting until you're eldering, if you will, to figure
Speaker 5: all of this out, or having that life changing incident
Speaker 5: happen that you start to look at things differently. What
Speaker 5: can people do on their path so they don't fall
Speaker 5: victim and quotes to the narrative and can be who
Speaker 5: they want to be yet kind of blend in with
Speaker 5: the culture.
Speaker 7: That's a beautiful question because when you think about balance,
Speaker 7: in some ways you have to defer to the psyche
Speaker 7: and how it provides that balance. You know, we could say, gee,
Speaker 7: I want that balance. But what happens is during the
Speaker 7: midlife process and transition. You know, the psyche is trying
Speaker 7: to restore balance. And what it does is as the
Speaker 7: self naturally starts emerging or I should say re emerging consciously.
Speaker 7: Then what happens is if the identity or the ecoidentity
Speaker 7: is too rigid, it presents itself every effort for the
Speaker 7: psyche to reconnect again. You know, we're talking about recollection,
Speaker 7: We're talking about reconnection. It presents itself in modern day
Speaker 7: as symptoms. So during Freud's era, there are particular types
Speaker 7: of symptoms that were presented. Today we see other kinds
Speaker 7: of symptoms. Everybody has anxiety, everybody has depression. You know,
Speaker 7: everybody's diagnosing themselves. But basically, what these symptoms are is
Speaker 7: the psyche's attempt to commute indicate to the you know,
Speaker 7: the egoic identity that there is something, there's a need
Speaker 7: for reconnection. And so what happens is people are oftentimes
Speaker 7: overwhelmed by these symptoms. They come in, they know if
Speaker 7: they're ignored, they present themselves physically after a while. This
Speaker 7: is what Freud called symptom compromises. In other words, what
Speaker 7: happened is, rather than coming up in direct awareness, it
Speaker 7: makes a compromise and it presents maybe as a chronic illness.
Speaker 7: And so we look at these symptoms, and you know,
Speaker 7: modern day medicine psychology oftentimes interprets these symptoms very concretely,
Speaker 7: and they try to address them. They try to ameliorate
Speaker 7: the symptoms. They try to treat the symptoms rather than
Speaker 7: understanding I think what Young understood, and I think what
Speaker 7: many mystics understand, which is this is to sell process
Speaker 7: of emergence and communication from a deeper layer to the
Speaker 7: psyche that maybe we don't understand very well. And it
Speaker 7: is attempting to integrate and to expand into consciousness. And
Speaker 7: if we don't have methodologies to midwife this expansion and
Speaker 7: this integration, what happens is it stays very much at
Speaker 7: the symptomatic level. It doesn't really begin to manifest as
Speaker 7: conscious change and transformation.
Speaker 5: So how can we help the next generations coming up
Speaker 5: so they don't have to mirror the same path and
Speaker 5: the problems along the path of challenges? Is there a
Speaker 5: way to kind of work around these things? Can we
Speaker 5: teach the kids today not to fall victim to You know,
Speaker 5: they need, they need to be part of the culture.
Speaker 5: But you know, this was saying, like, you watch too
Speaker 5: much news. If you don't watch the news, you're uninformed.
Speaker 5: If you watch the news, your missin form. So how
Speaker 5: do we teach our young people to be able to
Speaker 5: come up in a way that's different than what we
Speaker 5: didn't be able to kind of identify who they are
Speaker 5: and what's important at an earlier stage versus kind of
Speaker 5: the boomers. Now some of them don't don't even get
Speaker 5: it now because they're still I mean, listen, some people
Speaker 5: can still enjoy working their traditional corporate jobs in their seventies.
Speaker 6: They like to do that. That's fine, but it.
Speaker 5: Seems to be more than that. It seems to be
Speaker 5: a self identifier.
Speaker 7: Well, do you mind if I go deeper? Than the question.
Speaker 7: Sure is that? Okay, yeah, absolutely, So you know we
Speaker 7: are we're entering what some would call a second axial age. Okay,
Speaker 7: the first axial age was twenty five hundred years ago.
Speaker 7: We're actually entering the second axial age. And what this
Speaker 7: is is it's an ascension phase. Okay, what we're talking
Speaker 7: about with emergence, and so it requires a different model,
Speaker 7: a different way of thinking. And so what I would
Speaker 7: say about this about this time is it's a little
Speaker 7: bit like changing uh, you know, Copernicus's view that you know,
Speaker 7: the Sun revolved around the Earth, you know, and the
Speaker 7: Galileo took forward, you know, and shifting the heliocentric view.
Speaker 7: And I think in some ways we have a kind
Speaker 7: of an egocentric view psychology, you know, psychology has been
Speaker 7: you know, it's it's starts at the ego and it
Speaker 7: works down. So it's we we begin there. We we
Speaker 7: need a view that's more self centric, okay. And so
Speaker 7: I think this the axial the second axial age, is
Speaker 7: bringing us into a you know, kind of a new
Speaker 7: myth you know, which you don't called the myth of individuation,
Speaker 7: which is a more self involved view. And that our
Speaker 7: process is is not is to support the ego. It's
Speaker 7: not just to uh continue to do what we can
Speaker 7: to you know, to augment our coping with with many
Speaker 7: you know, toxic conditions that we're in, but to actually
Speaker 7: begin to use technologies they connect us directly with self
Speaker 7: and nurture, encourage and midwife this integration. And there's a
Speaker 7: lot that's going on in that regard. But again it
Speaker 7: requires a new model, a new kind of psychology, and
Speaker 7: a new kind of thinking. And so I think we're
Speaker 7: even going beyond the Jungian thinking. You know, we've we've
Speaker 7: had excuse me, we we we've seen trans personal psychology emerge,
Speaker 7: which goes even further beyond young into what some people
Speaker 7: call the unit unitive dimension. We see integrative or uh
Speaker 7: psychedelic integrated psychotherapy that's emerging is a very very powerful
Speaker 7: force in both both healing, awakening and therapy. And within
Speaker 7: the frame of what some people would call depth psychotherapy,
Speaker 7: we're also seeing you know, what some would call, you know,
Speaker 7: quantum approaches, because there are many that believe that the
Speaker 7: self or the unitary dimension is actually a quantum dimension.
Speaker 7: It operates on a very different physics than the ego.
Speaker 7: You know. I mean, from my point of view, the
Speaker 7: ego and the way we think about it operates much
Speaker 7: more from the old Newtonian model, which is a deterministic,
Speaker 7: very linear model as you move into the union model.
Speaker 7: And this is something that your viewers may find very interesting,
Speaker 7: is that Jung was actually a contemporary of Einstein and
Speaker 7: Wolfgang Pauli, and he used to have dinners with Einstein,
Speaker 7: and this was between two thousand or nineteen hundred and
Speaker 7: eight and nineteen hundred and twelve, and they would talk
Speaker 7: a great deal about the theory of relativity and its
Speaker 7: relationship to what he called synchronicity. And synchronicity from the
Speaker 7: Jungian view, is really looking at the causal relationship, but
Speaker 7: he called it a causal not causal, the relationship between
Speaker 7: consciousness and matter. And this is what the physicists are
Speaker 7: talking about with quantum entanglement at this point. So you're
Speaker 7: seeing quantum therapies, you know, the regression hypnotherapies that are
Speaker 7: connecting people on deep levels with this quantum field. You know,
Speaker 7: it's very similar to the psychedelic therapies. There's energy, body work,
Speaker 7: there's a lot of different approaches that are coming into
Speaker 7: the clinical field that I use very integratively in my practice.
Speaker 7: I have a village of practitioners that I bring in
Speaker 7: to assist me, assist me in opening up this quantum
Speaker 7: field and then helping me to do the integration in
Speaker 7: a psychotherapeutic process. So it's a different model of thinking.
Speaker 6: That's fantastic.
Speaker 5: Okay, my special guest once again, doctor Kenneth Lackritz the
Speaker 5: book Remembering Self. So in the book you blend uh spirituality, psychology, mythology,
Speaker 5: and personal development. Why was important to kind of bridge
Speaker 5: all those.
Speaker 7: Worlds because all of those worlds are the psyche. You know,
Speaker 7: I think what we've done is we've artificially separated them
Speaker 7: into metaphysics. And you know, in physics and psychology and
Speaker 7: metapsychology and spiritual psychology, they're not separate. They are just
Speaker 7: different fields of consciousness. And one of the great unions,
Speaker 7: Eric Neuman, who was protegee of Viewings, looked at the
Speaker 7: psyche as encompassing three basic fields. And one field is
Speaker 7: the physical reality field, the other the archetypal field, and
Speaker 7: the third the unitary reality field. Now what happens is,
Speaker 7: you know, as we go back to what I was
Speaker 7: discussing earlier. In the first half of life is all
Speaker 7: of these fields become separated, they become differentiated, and we
Speaker 7: become actually alienated from the archetypal and the unitary reality field.
Speaker 7: But they're all part of the of the psyche. There's
Speaker 7: nothing that isn't self. There's nothing that isn't psyche. But
Speaker 7: we think we are in the physical reality field and
Speaker 7: we think that's us and we think that's the endpoint. Okay,
Speaker 7: So this book brings into a unified model and a
Speaker 7: unified way of thinking all of the fields in a
Speaker 7: way that hopefully talks about that has just differentiated parts
Speaker 7: of the oneness, the unity, And so I felt it
Speaker 7: was extremely important to show how during the lifespan this unfolds,
Speaker 7: and then in the second half of life, how it
Speaker 7: starts to come back together again. You see, we dlink
Speaker 7: or we never d link. Let me correct it. We're
Speaker 7: always linked, we're just unconsciously linked. And then the second
Speaker 7: half of life we have an opportunity to consciously relink.
Speaker 7: And this is an incredibly important part of the unfolding.
Speaker 7: During the seasons of life and the lifespan, these are
Speaker 7: the opportunities in windows that open up.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 5: In the book, you talk about four stages of life
Speaker 5: and the importance of versus eldering versus aging, And I
Speaker 5: think that's very relevant for a lot of our boomer
Speaker 5: audience out there, and a lot of people like myself
Speaker 5: or yourself, or like my friends who are some of
Speaker 5: them are still working, some of them aren't, and I
Speaker 5: think they're all wrestling with Is that all there is?
Speaker 5: Talk to us about how the book addresses this this
Speaker 5: target group, if you will, and how they can navigate
Speaker 5: some of these challenges. In Layman's terms, what can these
Speaker 5: what can the boomers today?
Speaker 7: Okay, so now we get into Layman's terms. Yeah, so
Speaker 7: you know, an elder is someone that is connected with
Speaker 7: who they are, Okay, who knows the ground of who
Speaker 7: they are, who has remembered and relinked, and they can
Speaker 7: become a lighthouse to others who are searching for this path,
Speaker 7: and they can also become initiators and midwives. And so
Speaker 7: the eldering role is an incredibly important role to welcome
Speaker 7: others who are seeking transformation into deeper and more integrated
Speaker 7: ways of being. Does that make sense? Yes, absolutely, And
Speaker 7: it's different than an older and older is someone who
Speaker 7: is still identified with their pre midlife identity, and they
Speaker 7: are they're the ones that maybe never retire, that never
Speaker 7: want to give up. It's like the myth of Sissyphus
Speaker 7: where he refuses to die and so he puts death
Speaker 7: in jail and then ends up rolling the rock up
Speaker 7: and down the hill for all eternity, which is basically
Speaker 7: a way of saying, I refuse to give up my
Speaker 7: ego identity.
Speaker 5: Now, what happens to is some of these folks, I
Speaker 5: mean a lot of them. Maybe they you know, they
Speaker 5: they they're happy because they like what they're doing. And
Speaker 5: it just seems to me a little bit dysfunctional because
Speaker 5: these are narratives that we've been given at a certain point,
Speaker 5: you don't have to do that anymore.
Speaker 6: That they choose to go and do.
Speaker 5: It again and again and again, and then at a
Speaker 5: certain point, I've got to think they're going to wake
Speaker 5: up and say, oh, there's all this other stuff. I
Speaker 5: remember when I was in my thirties, I was living
Speaker 5: in New York City and I actually had to beat
Speaker 5: between jobs and I had worked. I'd never not worked
Speaker 5: since I was like seven years old. I had a
Speaker 5: paper out or nine years old paper out, and I
Speaker 5: was outside one day. I was walking along the west
Speaker 5: side and I couldn't believe how many people are outside.
Speaker 5: I'm like, how could these people not all be in offices.
Speaker 5: I've been in an office for like ten fifteen years
Speaker 5: straight now, and I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 6: Yet there's a whole other world out there.
Speaker 5: How does that relate to this challenge that I think
Speaker 5: a lot of boomers have where some of them don't
Speaker 5: want to let go because of ego, and some of
Speaker 5: them don't want to let go because of fear and
Speaker 5: money issues or whatever, because they keep spending and they
Speaker 5: have the more and more expensive toys.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 5: I have two different friends. One guy he loves to
Speaker 5: go to work, loves to put the.
Speaker 6: Tie on, feels really good.
Speaker 5: The other one likes to spend money, he likes his stuff,
Speaker 5: and he keeps working too. And I'm like, I watch
Speaker 5: them with love because I want the best outcome for
Speaker 5: both of them. But I'm sure that's a microcosm so
Speaker 5: many other people out there. And then I have a
Speaker 5: lot of other folks that I know that have kind
Speaker 5: of their semi retired or retired whatever, and they seemed
Speaker 5: a little more at peace with themselves.
Speaker 7: Well, you, you and I are old enough to see
Speaker 7: to have noticed how much longer people are living. Yeah,
Speaker 7: you know, you look back. Even forty years ago, people
Speaker 7: were old in their sixties. You know, it's sixty now,
Speaker 7: you and I you're in your seventies. I'm sixty eight.
Speaker 7: We don't think of it as old. Okay. So at
Speaker 7: the beginning of the twentieth century, the average lifespan was
Speaker 7: like forty So what happened is, you know, the model
Speaker 7: for life was a forty year life. You know, all
Speaker 7: the Hindu stages or students, householder, forest, elder, that was
Speaker 7: all done in thirty or forty years. Now what's happening
Speaker 7: is it's spread out over eighty or ninety years. But
Speaker 7: there's no model for the second half of life, especially
Speaker 7: in the Western culture. There's you know, where do you
Speaker 7: find models for transitioning into elderhood. Maybe in India there is,
Speaker 7: you know, there are other places where people perhaps live
Speaker 7: longer and have these models, but we don't.
Speaker 5: Right, and the society and the culture doesn't support it either.
Speaker 7: The culture doesn't support it.
Speaker 5: Don't want like get out of the way. They're not
Speaker 5: saying be a lighthouse. They're like to train your replacement
Speaker 5: and then here here's a package.
Speaker 7: Please, Well, you're saying, get out of the way and
Speaker 7: get a facelift, right, you know, find a way to
Speaker 7: to look like you're still in the game. But the
Speaker 7: thing is, in the second half of life, there's another
Speaker 7: game and most people don't know about it, and it's
Speaker 7: society at large does not value it. And so I
Speaker 7: think people find themselves. Why would they want to move
Speaker 7: into a stage of life where people are visible, you know,
Speaker 7: where they feel devalued and they feel like there's no
Speaker 7: meaning and nothing to do. You know, there's there's of
Speaker 7: importance in contribution.
Speaker 5: Now you work with a lot of boomers. I think
Speaker 5: I recall that from one of our conversations in general terms,
Speaker 5: directionally speaking, what are what do they come to you with?
Speaker 5: Is it what type of issues do they have? If
Speaker 5: obviously everybody's different, but there's some universals there that you know,
Speaker 5: the boomers are going to come to you with.
Speaker 6: What do you notice, Well.
Speaker 7: You know it depends on the boomer, okay, but but
Speaker 7: I think that you know, as themes, what I see
Speaker 7: at midlife are people feeling like the things that used
Speaker 7: to have meaning no longer have meaning. The things that
Speaker 7: used to have juice no longer have juice. Am I depressed?
Speaker 7: You know, I'm anxious, I'm feeling a loss of motivation,
Speaker 7: you know what's going on? And so and I think
Speaker 7: that so many people think of it as depression, and
Speaker 7: they don't realize that they're in a normal process of
Speaker 7: development and all of their symptoms are actually a sign
Speaker 7: of this transition and what I consider to be a
Speaker 7: potential for transformation. But what happens is what people from
Speaker 7: a psychiatric point of view, people are oftentimes, you know,
Speaker 7: this is when they start going on any depressants, people
Speaker 7: start drinking more, you know, they start masking what I
Speaker 7: call the emergence more, and they're in a liminal space,
Speaker 7: which means they're in a transitional space from one state
Speaker 7: of being to another state of being. That can take
Speaker 7: as long as ten years from many people, And so
Speaker 7: it can be a period of suffering where your sense
Speaker 7: of reality and your sense of meaning in life is
Speaker 7: completely shattering and breaking down, but you have no understanding,
Speaker 7: first of all, of the process and second of all
Speaker 7: where it's taking you. And so as a therapist, if
Speaker 7: I am not further on the other side of that
Speaker 7: and understand what the process is and where it's taking us.
Speaker 7: Then I'm of no use to that person, and I'm
Speaker 7: more likely to buy into the cultural and medical model
Speaker 7: that you're depressed. Let's give you some therapies for depression,
Speaker 7: let's support your ego, let's pull you out of it,
Speaker 7: Let's get you in this and that and the other thing,
Speaker 7: without really attending to what is happening at the sole level.
Speaker 7: And so it's very important to begin to articulate that
Speaker 7: to this group so that they understand the nature and
Speaker 7: meaning of what we think of as symptoms.
Speaker 5: Now, you also mentioned shadow work, and that's something that
Speaker 5: I don't think everybody understands really what shadow work is
Speaker 5: and why for it, and particularly for and people entering
Speaker 5: the eldering stages.
Speaker 7: So what is shadow You know, shadow is anything that
Speaker 7: is not acceptable to the consciousness of the psyche or
Speaker 7: to or alignes with our sense of who we are.
Speaker 7: So naturally, what happens is anything that's not culturally aligned,
Speaker 7: personally aligned. It gets pushed against, either suppressed or repressed
Speaker 7: into the unconscious. And so what happens again, you know,
Speaker 7: the soul wants to be whole, and so naturally the
Speaker 7: shadow material emerges at midlife and it kind of smacks
Speaker 7: us right in the face, you know. We find ourselves
Speaker 7: very much in the in the mud, in the swamp
Speaker 7: of all of the issues that have been segregated off, dissociated, abandoned, rejected,
Speaker 7: and the shadow wants consciousness. It won't wants acceptance, it
Speaker 7: wants reintegration. And so when we talk about shadow work,
Speaker 7: what we're talking about is finding a relationship with all
Speaker 7: of the dimensions of ourselves. Again going back to that
Speaker 7: model of the unitary psyche, all the dimensions of ourselves
Speaker 7: that want to be known, they want to be conscious,
Speaker 7: they want to be reintegrated, and they want to be
Speaker 7: received with love, you know. And so if we are
Speaker 7: not in a deep relationship with self, which is also
Speaker 7: a deep relationship with love, which is the foundation of
Speaker 7: who we are, it's very difficult to receive all of
Speaker 7: these abandoned elements of ourselves. So that's part of what
Speaker 7: we want to encourage in shadow work, and what is
Speaker 7: shadowed to one person may be something fully acceptable to
Speaker 7: another person. To do this work, we have to find
Speaker 7: a way to be accepting and compassionate with all aspects
Speaker 7: of our being.
Speaker 5: You also in the book Doctor talk about the difference
Speaker 5: and the importance of building conscious partnerships versus romantic relationships.
Speaker 5: I do a lot of shows and they're all about
Speaker 5: people over fifty dating and looking for relationships. And there
Speaker 5: it's like, I can't believe, like people still don't know
Speaker 5: how to date, but they they struggle with it, and
Speaker 5: you know, we try to do everything we can on
Speaker 5: the shows.
Speaker 6: I guessed on to help them.
Speaker 5: And you would think, wow, wow, you know, because people
Speaker 5: make they attract the same type of partners who were
Speaker 5: wrong for them over and over again, and they, you know,
Speaker 5: they're looking for the romance. And at a certain point,
Speaker 5: maybe it's not about romance. Maybe it's about compatibility in
Speaker 5: a lot of different areas. So how do you discuss
Speaker 5: that in your book, Doctor.
Speaker 7: We are in the first half of life driven. You know,
Speaker 7: our pattern are generally generated by early conditioning, and early
Speaker 7: conditioning is familial, and we are replicating the patterns that
Speaker 7: we grew up with, replicating the patterns of our parents,
Speaker 7: and so we're basically in an unconscious relationship with our relationships,
Speaker 7: and so awakening to who we are allows us to
Speaker 7: begin to mediate, and it allows us to actually choose
Speaker 7: ways of being that are not dictated by default by
Speaker 7: our conditioning. And so again going back to the notion
Speaker 7: of individuation, which is becoming a whole. You know, oftentimes
Speaker 7: what we do is we're looking for someone who completes us,
Speaker 7: so we may be half of a whole, all right.
Speaker 7: And in early relationships, what happens is we go through
Speaker 7: an individuation process where we start becoming a whole together.
Speaker 7: But many people don't aren't able to do that in
Speaker 7: their marriage, in their relationships, and so they find sometimes
Speaker 7: post divorce that they are doing their own personal individuation
Speaker 7: work and they're coming back and they want to be
Speaker 7: two holes in relationship rather than two halves becoming a whole.
Speaker 7: Does that make sense?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 7: And so and these are conscious and awake relationships where
Speaker 7: people are actually buildings dynamics together consciously, they're choosing how
Speaker 7: they want to relate with each other rather than by
Speaker 7: default relating in terms of unconscious condition patterns. Does that
Speaker 7: make sense?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, correct me if they're wrong.
Speaker 5: I always say that each partner has to have their
Speaker 5: own life, and then you have a separate thing when
Speaker 5: you bring the two together and that's.
Speaker 7: Exactly that's really great.
Speaker 5: But depend on one person to define yourself is a mistake.
Speaker 5: And you know the title of your book says it
Speaker 5: all remembering self, and it's to me everything I've learned
Speaker 5: about spirituality from all the thought leaders I've spoken to
Speaker 5: over the years, including yourself, which I think you've done
Speaker 5: a masterful job with. It is about rediscovering who we are,
Speaker 5: not looking externally for an answer, and that sometime is
Speaker 5: the biggest challenge that people have because they want to
Speaker 5: look out there and they don't want to look within,
Speaker 5: and they don't want to rediscover who they are.
Speaker 6: They don't realize that they are they are the answer.
Speaker 7: You know what. What's so what's so important about what
Speaker 7: you're saying is that you know, when we're born, we
Speaker 7: would not survive without the love from the other. So
Speaker 7: we we through most through the first half of our life,
Speaker 7: we see the other as the source of this love.
Speaker 7: And that's that's the fundamental mistake that we make because
Speaker 7: we started to realize over time that the other does
Speaker 7: not hold the key. The other may open up a
Speaker 7: door to ourselves, but they actually don't hold the key.
Speaker 7: And as long as we're still relying on what I
Speaker 7: call these horizontal ways of connecting. Then what we're doing
Speaker 7: is we're making the fundamental mistake of holding the other
Speaker 7: person as responsible for our needs rather than us vertically.
Speaker 7: And this is the vertical relationship, realizing that all the
Speaker 7: resources live within us. But until we remember all these pieces,
Speaker 7: we don't have the connections necessary to be whole, and
Speaker 7: so we still keep relying on the other for that
Speaker 7: oxygen supply of love.
Speaker 5: Amazing, And I've got to think that practices like meditation,
Speaker 5: and it could be you know, you sit to TM,
Speaker 5: or you go for a walk, or you go for
Speaker 5: a swim, those are all forms of meditation. But trying
Speaker 5: to find the quiet times where you can give yourself
Speaker 5: the opportunity to go inside must be incredibly important because
Speaker 5: we live in a very noisy world and people who
Speaker 5: were around a couple hundred years ago they didn't have
Speaker 5: to deal with the noise that we have to deal with.
Speaker 7: I think that that's absolutely true. You're creating spaces for
Speaker 7: ourselves to even listen into the subtlety, because the self
Speaker 7: is very subtle, and if we are not quiet, we
Speaker 7: can't hear it, we can't listen into it, we can't
Speaker 7: feel it. And I think meditation is one of the
Speaker 7: best ways of not only creating a quiet space, but
Speaker 7: quieting the mind enough to be able to perceive and
Speaker 7: experience the subtlety of being. And so I can't think
Speaker 7: of a better doorway into this process than meditation.
Speaker 5: Okay, we're getting towards the end of the show, and
Speaker 5: you've done such a wonderful job with this book, Elder
Speaker 5: and Guidance. What are some of the maybe three tips
Speaker 5: that our audience can start to implement right away to
Speaker 5: get themselves in a position to be able to make
Speaker 5: the best of the remaining time that they have and
Speaker 5: making those golden years the best years of their lives,
Speaker 5: which can very well could be. You know, you think
Speaker 5: about it. If you retire, let's say, quote unquote at
Speaker 5: sixty and you're healthy, you're blessed to be healthy. You
Speaker 5: could live another thirty years no problem, and you're free
Speaker 5: hopefully if you've done some good moves financially and you're
Speaker 5: in that type of space that those could be the
Speaker 5: most freeing, best years of your life.
Speaker 7: You know, I think number one, we need to know
Speaker 7: that we have a self. Okay, and I think a
Speaker 7: lot of people don't know that there is a self,
Speaker 7: you know, beneath all of the layers of persona, an
Speaker 7: ego identity. We have to know that we have to
Speaker 7: work toward relinking, and there are many ways to do that.
Speaker 7: There again, there's psychotherapy, and I think that during midlife,
Speaker 7: if we are not in some kind of a transformational process,
Speaker 7: it's a very difficult thing to do. That's our kind
Speaker 7: of modern day mechanism for doing that. Meditation, retreats, psychedelic
Speaker 7: assistant psychotherapy. There's just there's a number of different different
Speaker 7: approaches to this and understanding that we're in a universal
Speaker 7: process that underfolds in a relatively predictable way, and I
Speaker 7: think most people don't realize that we're in that process.
Speaker 7: So we have to awaken to the fact. And that's
Speaker 7: what the labyrinth is about. There. It shows that we're
Speaker 7: we're as we go through the seasons, we're in a
Speaker 7: universal process, and as we begin to awaken to that,
Speaker 7: we start to understand that there are different phases that
Speaker 7: we go through that have particular tasks that begin to
Speaker 7: open up. And again, if the culture doesn't have support
Speaker 7: for those tasks, then we need to sometimes look outside
Speaker 7: of the car culture or to look and I think
Speaker 7: that's why people come to unions and transpersonal psychologists and
Speaker 7: to reiki practitioners and et cetera, is to look for
Speaker 7: for other models that support these these deepening dimensions. And
Speaker 7: I think particularly in the Yogic realm, they you know,
Speaker 7: they have models who are looking at what what the
Speaker 7: eldering is about, and they refer to elders as sanyasis
Speaker 7: and so there is actually a Sanyasi phase in the
Speaker 7: Hindu culture.
Speaker 5: All right, great conversation again, rememberingself, Kenneth R. Lacret's PhD.
Speaker 5: Where can people find your book and learn more about
Speaker 5: you quickly?
Speaker 7: You can find my book on Amazon and Barnes and Noble,
Speaker 7: and you can find it on my website at doctor
Speaker 7: Kenneth R. Lacret's Phdcast.
Speaker 5: Great job, Thank you for being on Guys Guys Radio.
Speaker 5: A lot of the best of luck with the book
Speaker 5: and the work you're doing, which is so important.
Speaker 6: Thank you.
Speaker 7: You're quite welcome, and it's it's always it's a pleasure
Speaker 7: to see you.
Speaker 6: Hope to see you again.
Speaker 7: I hope to see you again too.
Speaker 4: It's guys guy Radio.
Speaker 5: Okay, what a fascinating conversation with doctor Lackritz doctor Ken
Speaker 5: about really aging, and we talked about so many different
Speaker 5: subjects today, but it's all about how we can kind
Speaker 5: of really figure out who we are before it's too late.
Speaker 5: And there's some of the practices about individuation and shadow
Speaker 5: work and meditation and all the things that help us
Speaker 5: get to a point where instead of just getting old,
Speaker 5: we've become eldering, and we've become beacons of information and
Speaker 5: teaching and education for the next generation is coming along.
Speaker 5: But we're not just tossed aside. As you know, our
Speaker 5: culture kind of has a narrative where they assign us
Speaker 5: roles at certain ages, and pretty much at a certain
Speaker 5: point they say, okay, time for you to move over.
Speaker 5: But with people living longer and longer lives, it doesn't
Speaker 5: the model doesn't work. The framework has to change. Putting
Speaker 5: that aside, it's all about going inside and really rediscovering
Speaker 5: who you are. And you can't let the external tell
Speaker 5: you who you are. You've got to go inside to
Speaker 5: figure out who you are. So with doctor Ken, we
Speaker 5: talked about YOUNGI in psychology, we talked about individuation, shadow work, eldering,
Speaker 5: how to trans form really from romantic relationships into more
Speaker 5: conscious partnering. We talked about ego, how ego can be
Speaker 5: our friend and our foe, and so much more. Just
Speaker 5: a lot of stuff at different stages of life, and
Speaker 5: a lot of it is guidance as to how we
Speaker 5: can begin the process of going inside to really fully
Speaker 5: realize who we've always been. And that's what doctor Ken's
Speaker 5: work in his book is all about. So I did
Speaker 5: my best to kind of bring this thing to a
Speaker 5: framework where everybody could understand and relate to some of
Speaker 5: these concepts, because when you get into YOUNGI in psychology,
Speaker 5: there's a there's a lot to chew on. So I
Speaker 5: hope you enjoyed our conversation. I think doctor Kent's terrific.
Speaker 5: He's doing great work, So check out his book Remembering Self.
Speaker 5: Ken Lacretz, thank you for listening to Guys Guys Radio.
Speaker 5: We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.
Speaker 8: And until then, like I always say, Guys Guys finish first.
Speaker 1: NBC News on CACAA Lomelad sponsored by Teamsters Local nineteen
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Speaker 4: Org NBC News Radio. I'm Scott Carr.
Speaker 9: The US has launched a second wave of strikes against
Speaker 9: Iran today, US Central Command Post on x The strike
Speaker 9: targeted at Iran's military capabilities used to threaten vessels really
Speaker 9: traveling through the straight offoor MOUs. This after the President
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Speaker 9: the Iranians right now. The Homeland Security Committee in the
Speaker 9: US House is asking for a briefing with ICE next week.
Speaker 9: Congressman from New York Andrew Garbarino tears the committee. He
Speaker 9: tells The Hill his panels already reached out to ICE
Speaker 9: for details on the status of its implementation of body
Speaker 9: camera requirements for officers. This after two ICE officers fatally
Speaker 9: shot and killed two men over the past week. One
Speaker 9: of those deadly ICE shootings happened in Houston. Now, Governor
Speaker 9: of Texas Greg Abbott's ordering an independent investigation into the
Speaker 9: shooting there.
Speaker 10: The Texas Rangers are now going to be involved in
Speaker 10: an investigation of this matter, working alongside federal officials to
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Speaker 9: An ICE agent shot and killed Lorenzo Salgado Araujo as
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Speaker 10: They're well known, not just in SA Texas but elsewhere.
Speaker 9: The first day of Todd Blanche's Senate confirmation hearing to
Speaker 9: become the next US Attorney General has wrapped up. He's
Speaker 9: President Trump's former personal lawyer, and he faced some tough
Speaker 9: questions from senators today on issues related to the so
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Speaker 9: convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Defending World Cup champs Argentina
Speaker 9: is headed to their second straight World Cup Final, scoring
Speaker 9: two late goals to beat England two to one in
Speaker 9: the semi final today in Atlanta. They'll face off with
Speaker 9: Spain and Sunday's final in New Jersey.
Speaker 4: Scott Carr, NBC News Radio.
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Speaker 12: There's never been a better time for men to be
Speaker 12: whoever they want to be, Yet it's never been less
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Speaker 9: One person is dead three are still missing after a
Speaker 9: fifty foot cabin cruiser capsized in the San Francisco Bay
Speaker 9: Tuesday afternoon. Rescue officials say the boat started taking on
Speaker 9: water while in rough seas between Alcatraz Island and the
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Speaker 9: board knew each other or were relatives. Three are hospitalized
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Speaker 9: possible source of a growing outbreak of cyclosporiasis.
Speaker 4: Here's Daniel Martindale.
Speaker 13: A report initially in The Washington Post says the outbreak
Speaker 13: may be tied with lettuce and other items in Taco
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Speaker 9: Economists and experts and artificial intelligence have issued a warning
Speaker 9: that governments and businesses better get prepared now for the
Speaker 9: rapid rise of AI.
Speaker 14: Researchers from Stanford University's Digital Economy Lab have released in
Speaker 14: open letters signed by more than two hundred economists and
Speaker 14: AI experts, including sixteen Nobel Prize winners. The group says
Speaker 14: artificial intelligence could become dramatically more powerful over the next decade.
Speaker 14: The researchers are urging policymakers and industry leaders to establish
Speaker 14: some safeguards and policies that ensure AI works alongside people
Speaker 14: and benefits society as a whole.
Speaker 9: I'm Monka Nelson, New Orleans has one of the nation's
Speaker 9: largest chairs of parkland, but the health of those living
Speaker 9: there is apparently trailing far behind other US cities. This week,
Speaker 9: the American College of Sports Medicine ranked the Big Easy
Speaker 9: number fifty seven among the country's one hundred biggest cities.
Speaker 9: Its community and environment did well, coming in twenty sixth,
Speaker 9: but residents' personal health was ranked seventy nine. Scott Carr,
Speaker 9: NBC News Radio.
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Speaker 1: thirty two, protecting the future of working families. Teamsters nineteen
Speaker 1: thirty two, dot.
Speaker 4: Org, NBC News Radio. I'm Scott Carr.
Speaker 9: The US has launched a second wave of strikes against
Speaker 9: Iranza day US Central Command posts on x The strike
Speaker 9: targeted at Iran's military capabilities used to threaten vessels freely
Speaker 9: traveling through the straight offoor moves. This after the President
Speaker 9: made a statement that he's not looking to negotiate with
Speaker 9: the Iranians right now. The Homeland Security Committee in the
Speaker 9: US House is asking for a briefing with ICE next week.
Speaker 9: Congressman from New York Andrew Garbarino tears the committee. He
Speaker 9: tells the Hill his panels already reached out to ICE
Speaker 9: for details on the status of its implementation of body
Speaker 9: camera requirements for officers. This after two ICE officers fatally
Speaker 9: shot and killed two men over the pastlast week. One
Speaker 9: of those deadly ICE shootings happened in Houston. Now, Governor
Speaker 9: of Texas Greg Abbott's ordering an independent investigation into the
Speaker 9: shooting there.
Speaker 10: The Texas Rangers are now going to be involved in
Speaker 10: an investigation of this matter, working alongside federal officials to
Speaker 10: get to the bottom of exactly what happened.
Speaker 9: An ICE agent shot and killed Lorenzo Salgado Araujo as
Speaker 9: he drove his construction crew to a job site. Abbott
Speaker 9: says there is an expectation that the nation's immigration laws
Speaker 9: will be enforced, though he says it can be done
Speaker 9: without gunfire, pointing to the state's own border security operations.
Speaker 7: They work independently.
Speaker 10: They're well known, not just in Stay Texas, but elsewhere.
Speaker 9: The first day of Todd Blanche's Senate confirmation hearing to
Speaker 9: become the next US Attorney General has wrapped up. He's
Speaker 9: President Trump's former personal lawyer, and he faced some tough
Speaker 9: questions from senators today on issues related to the so
Speaker 9: called Anti Weaponization Fund and the files connected to the
Speaker 9: convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. Defending World Cup champs Argentina
Speaker 9: is headed to their second straight World Cup Final, scoring
Speaker 9: two late goals to beat England two to one in
Speaker 9: the semi final today in Atlanta. They'll face off with
Speaker 9: Spain and Sunday's final in New Jersey.
Speaker 4: Scott Carr, NBC News Radio.
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Speaker 11: Local nineteen thirty two Training Center is designed to train
Speaker 11: workers for high demand good paying jobs and various industries
Speaker 11: throughout the Inland Empire. If you want a pathway to
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Speaker 11: to enroll today. That's nineteen thirty two Trainingcenter dot org.
Speaker 2: Ten fifty AM. Don't forget that number. And for you
Speaker 2: young people who got here by accidentally fat fingering your
Speaker 2: FM band select there. We're an AM radio station, and
Speaker 2: a M refers to more than just the time of day.