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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, thanks for watching with me.

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Speaker 2: Today we have the connoisseur of the occult, Andy Mercer, Andy,

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how are you?

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Speaker 3: I am pretty good?

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Speaker 2: And also with me is the master of high strangeness,

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Steve Ward.

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Speaker 1: Steve, how's it going?

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Speaker 3: Very good?

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Speaker 4: It's it's great to be the master at something.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Susie in case anyone didn't know. So today

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we're here to talk about Passport to Magonia by Jacques Vallet.

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Speaker 1: Jack Valley.

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Speaker 4: If you're some Americans, if you're a philistine, right, okay.

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Speaker 1: So by all accounts, a book that is about.

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Speaker 2: UFO pilots potentially be in the fay would be right

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up my alley.

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Speaker 1: However, I did not like the book.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, listen, I have to I have to go work

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on my transmission right now.

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Speaker 2: I think at least part of its generational, to be honest,

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And while I know, you know, it's a different time,

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different mentality, I don't care really, because you know, I

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was raised by someone that was really progressive and was

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you know, from the same generation, if not a little

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bit older than him. And also I think it's kind

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of and I know again I can hear the booing,

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but it's kind of like Star Wars for me, I

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didn't see it as a kid.

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Speaker 1: I when I.

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Speaker 2: Finally watched it, which was only a few years ago,

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I'm like, this has crappy graphics in the plot full

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of holes because I didn't have like I didn't see

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it when it was new, when the graphics were like

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advanced for the time or special effects, I should say.

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And I don't have like any like childhood fondness for it.

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But I'm hoping maybe the two of you can kind

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of reel me back.

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Speaker 4: But well, if I don't fix that transmission, I'm not

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going anywhere.

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Speaker 3: And you'd be more specific about what you want to

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particulated great to join.

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Speaker 2: So the stories in it were good. There's a couple

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of my favorite stories ever in it.

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Speaker 1: I feel like he made a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Assumptions that he expects people to just accept because he's

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an expert. It was a little bit he go forward,

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but I maybe, like so I've been trying to like

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justify it in my brain and like soften it for myself.

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But I think maybe probably at the time he was

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and there is I don't disagree with his assumptions.

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Speaker 1: Usually I just feel like it's.

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Speaker 2: It's it's not the best presenting research to not present

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the reasonings behind your assumptions.

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Speaker 1: Knowing a little bit more about some of.

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Speaker 2: These stories, I understood where he was coming from, but

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he doesn't explain that in there. And another thing I

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didn't like is he was very eurocentric.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and you gotta watch those eurocentric types, right, I'm

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on the lookout every day for those guys.

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Speaker 2: He did he did, I think briefly mentioned Native American story,

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but there are so many other stories throughout the world.

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There's a ton from Africa, a ton from the Philippines

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that he could have used, and it makes it more compelling,

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more interesting when you show it's all around the world

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throughout time.

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Speaker 1: And then the last thing that.

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Speaker 2: I don't really say it is the reason I didn't

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like it. But he cites his sources, which is great.

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But then I looked into some the sources and I

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it's it's not that I think he was lying, it's

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just that I can't back it up because some of

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the sources no longer exist, Like one of them was

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a magazine from I believe it was six I want

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to say sixty five, and I'm not sure if that's right,

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which I just can't find. But like I'm thinking, like,

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is this a magazine like the fourteen Times or what

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kind of magazine was this? Like he just it's it

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was a bit weird to see a magazine listed, I.

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Speaker 1: Suppose, but I did. I did like that he had

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his sources in there.

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Speaker 3: It is always the rest, of course of you, because

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there's lots of sources, but I'm not no one's able

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to find them. But it's not what it's used to you, unfortunately,

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if you think it was more than perhaps it was

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a lot of assumed pre knowledge of the topic before

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reading it. It wasn't the beginner's butuy.

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Speaker 1: Say, yeah, it's definitely.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think you could pick it up not

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knowing anything and enjoy it if you don't think about.

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Speaker 1: It too hard.

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Speaker 5: I thought about it very hard, Susie, and I enjoyed it.

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Just so you know, now I have I have some

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rebuttals here. He started out as a very nuts and

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bolt skuy his first two books that.

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Speaker 4: Challenge to science and an enemy of phenomenon.

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Speaker 5: He was he was looking at it as you know,

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et and trying to look at it very very logically,

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and then he admits when he writes going he says, look,

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this is not a scientific book, but he is like

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one of these guys that keeps hitting the brick wall

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when they try to put these things in the physical.

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So and and also his his focus was more in

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the Celtic realm uh he wasn't he wasn't I don't

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think interested in going.

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Speaker 4: He could have gone.

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Speaker 5: Everywhere all over the world, but he it was more

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your centric I think on purpose. So uh you know,

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I think that uh uh. And and also his uh

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uh that this was one as as everybody here knows.

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Uh I you know then named John Keel ring a Bell. Okay, well,

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the the the the two books that just completely changed

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my thinking was first Operation Trojan Horse by Keel and

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then shortly followed up by Magonia Passport to Magonia. And

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I it just it just changed everything for me. And

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so I I don't I don't agree with your your criticisms.

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I think that uh uh he uh he started out

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with uh with maybe the more eurocentric view, which which

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is is great because you know, if you look at

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at Celtic folklore and so forth, and modern day some

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modern day UFO experiences, the patterns are are phenomenal. I

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mean with with missing time and and the way that

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some of these entities looked and so forth.

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Speaker 4: So I disagree with your.

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Speaker 5: Initial I'm not going to say diatribe because it was

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not a diatribe. It was a very well reasoned it

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was a very well reasoned diatribe.

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Speaker 4: Let's port of that one.

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Speaker 2: And so my criticians criticism is kind of a catch

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twenty two because I liked that there were varied stories,

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like there is a lot of stories, but at the

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same time, I feel like he could have gone into

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more depth on some of them and you know, analyze

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them a.

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Speaker 1: Little bit further. But then it would have been like

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like a ten volume.

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Speaker 4: Well staking of a ten volume set.

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Speaker 5: If you go to hear the trilogy he wrote about

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twenty years later, the Dimensions, Revelations and Confrontations, he he

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revisits some of the mcgonia's stuff because at that time

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mcgonia had been out of print for maybe a couple decades,

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I don't know, But he does expand more. I think

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he might appreciate more of his writings and his viewpoints

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if you go through those books, and especially if you

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get into Messengers of Deception, that sort of thing. I

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mean to me, Valay is brilliant. He's almost as brilliant

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as John Keel. Okay, I mean just just a hair,

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just a hair different, But yeah, I was blown away

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by Macgonian, So.

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Speaker 3: There you go.

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Speaker 2: I will say it is like a great source to

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kind of use as a jumping off point to find

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interesting stories and look deeper into them.

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Speaker 4: And that's what he did in that trilogy, also one

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of them.

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Speaker 3: It was probably one of the first books that looked

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at the whole world he's flown from that respective had

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been as you said, his earlier works of predominant nuts

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and bolts uphones. At the time, most books were nuts

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about UFOs. There was nothing, It wasn't a lot around

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that approached it this subject this way. So it was

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kind of discovering in the darker bitual because there was

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no kind of ways had been done before. And I

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get the idea something he was looking for Lots and

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lots of stories that are many Europeans, you say, of

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examples of high strangers, very weird occurrences that don't fit

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the usual windows. And you suppose you have to rely

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on what texts are available to access at the time

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when he wrote it. Before being a European mean from France.

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Of course, he had a lot of access to French material,

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to European material, to English language material, which would have

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covered obviously Europe and the English speaking countries at the

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areas of Prince. He was writing for an English speaking audience,

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so it was probably going to be focused on all

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of those European areas. But yeah, you could have written

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a multi volume edition that were covering stories and other

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parts of the world. I'm kind of in the middleized,

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but I think it's a good book. It does have

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its flaws nothing, because he's right, it does kind of

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blow by a little bit because it's hitting this one's.

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Speaker 5: Men. There is a sequel that he wrote with Chris

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Aubeck as well, so they dealt more into that. So

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and again, when you when you read Lay as a whole, uh,

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you know, it's it's it's pure genius. And the one

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of the most fascinating things that I read are his

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uh Forbidden Signs series. You know, he covers the decades

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of the sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties, and I think.

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Speaker 4: You go to the next one anyway, I wait to breathlessly.

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Speaker 5: For the next one because he he goes through his uh,

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his thinking process and the and the people he's met

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a lot of the way, and and some of the

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comments he makes about certain individuals in the UFO field

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are quite amusing. But he talks about the episode with

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with his friend j L and heinig with the uh

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the swamp gas fiasco, and then uh, he gets into

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the Morrow mystery, which we've talked about before, the two

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guys with the lead masks, and uh, it's just it

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just endlessly faster.

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Speaker 4: So I would I would definitely keep pursuing.

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Speaker 5: Jacques Filat and uh, maybe maybe reread Passport to Magonia

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and you the Light may dawn Susie, and you may

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have a little different.

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Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like that book is kind of what

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I'm looking for, Like I want him to explain his

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thought process. I don't just want to like hear a

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story and hear his assumptions, like how did you get

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from A to B? There is kind of what I

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wanted a little bit more of.

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Speaker 3: There's the logical us of the argument. You mean, the

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title itself, the first stop read the Pastport to Magnolia.

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I thought, that's very strange. Talk abound and what's make

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of the talk itself. I mean, it's an interesting choice.

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You know.

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Speaker 5: John Keel used to say that, uh, that Jacques fil

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A would uh was inspired by his It was like

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Jacque was kind of rewriting some of his stuff, because

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early on Lay was very nuts and bolts, and then

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all of a sudden he was a little more Killian

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in some RECEI but uh, that was always quite amusing.

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Speaker 2: Well, a lot of people are a little bit more

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a Killian after they read some Keel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

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Speaker 4: It's sort of like a chink in your blood. You know,

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there's no snow cure for the snow.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: What's the word. I want any biotics to get rid

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of it.

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Speaker 3: I've got confess I haven't readly for quite some time.

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I've been in other things which pree mediate for the show.

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But it does seem like a sudden kind of gear change,

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change of thinking, change of direction from his previous works

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to what's in again? Do you know why he's had

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this sort of change is in the book? Explain why

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this change of thinking about the source of these awflomena?

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Speaker 4: I don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't recall him explaining that at.

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Speaker 1: All, So maybe we do have Keel to thank for.

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Speaker 3: That, and that's where where it comes from.

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Speaker 5: Well, I have a room full of photographs of Keel

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with candles with you know, all the time.

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Speaker 4: So uh, you know, and not really not really.

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Speaker 3: I just thought, did you think that was influence made

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changes thinking?

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Speaker 5: Then?

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Speaker 3: What was the reason that change of thinking? Do you

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think you know I did.

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Speaker 4: With the lay?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, why he changes?

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Speaker 5: But I don't know, he just he just just kind

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of it was I think it was like so many

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so many me Well for me too, I was a

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very happy each guy. And uh, I didn't didn't want

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to hear anything else about the weird stuff, you know.

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And but you know, you if you're exposed enough to

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the if you're if you're listening to the experiencer and

255
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you're reading the the the history of the what's happened

256
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and what people have experienced, you you know, you either

257
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come to think a little bit differently or you just

258
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keep ignoring it, you know. Yea, And if you keep

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ignoring it, you're not much of a Not that I'm

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a scientist, but you know, you try to be a

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clear thinker. You trying to entertain new ideas that are

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presented to you that it seemed to have some validity,

263
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and so I think maybe that that was it, you know,

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I mean he remembered in early in uh.

265
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Speaker 4: I don't know it was if he mentions in Agonia.

266
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Speaker 5: Or another book, but he was that they were he

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was with some scientists somewhere. They were observing phenomena uh

268
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on some on a radar or some kind of screen

269
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or whatever, and there's something that didn't fit. So the

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the the scientist just destroyed it. He didn't want to

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deal with it. And then I wish I could remember

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the specific details. But that's that's one of the things

273
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that triggered of Valay into uh you know, took to

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look into some of this stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and to his credit, I'm not a Valat hater.

276
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Just for their record, Oh that's.

277
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Speaker 4: That's a really I didn't want to work on my transmission.

278
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Speaker 2: Anyway, because I love when somebody can change their mind

279
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when presented with new evidence. And I do think that

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you know, he probably as he's doing more research, talking

281
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to more experiencers, he's making connections and you know, eventually

282
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he's like, oh that you know, that reminds me of

283
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that story I heard as kid from folklore, and he

284
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probably started putting that together from there. I mean, when

285
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I first started looking into Puck Wedgies, I was an atheist,

286
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didn't believe in ghosts, didn't I didn't not believe in UFOs.

287
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Speaker 1: I just didn't care. They weren't weren't interesting.

288
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Speaker 2: And then you know, I started reading the eyewitness accounts

289
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and that started to kind of intrigue me, and I got,

290
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you know, more into it, and I started seeing like

291
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these similarities and things I couldn't you know.

292
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Speaker 1: A lotly explain.

293
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Speaker 2: And then you know, from there started you know, seeing

294
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the connections like Puck Wedgy sightings with orbs and bigfoot sightings,

295
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and then okay, where there are other places with orb sightings,

296
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maybe I can find some puck Wedges there. And then

297
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you look, and you know, you end up in you know,

298
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looking into Mothman from Puckwages eventually, right, So you know,

299
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it's like unraveling a sweater when you start looking into phenomena.

300
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Speaker 1: Sometimes, of course, we'll go ahead.

301
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Speaker 5: He of course, he was the inspiration for the French

302
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Scientist and Close Encounters with the Third Kind by Franz

303
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Wat And it's interesting because Jacques Filet was trying to convince.

304
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Speaker 4: Spielberg not to make it et. He wanted it to

305
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make it more ambiguous something, because at that point time

306
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he didn't think it was necessarily e g. Of course

307
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he failed miserably, but you know, so.

308
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Speaker 3: Straightforward, having this little literally little agreement or little of color.

309
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They were often being kind of either come from the

310
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mountain or they're coming from the spaceship.

311
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Speaker 5: Great soundtrack, though better than Further by the Creek.

312
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Speaker 3: Coincidence. Actually, this isn't true story. It was very recently.

313
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I was watching a documentary There's Unsold Mystery Programs that

314
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,079
was the UF of event on and I think it

315
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,319
was to watch it again, so I just perfect to

316
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,480
see from the TV guide on the TV C if

317
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,319
it's actually on, And it was actually on that movement

318
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,160
on Channel four in the UK. That is a weird

319
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,680
coincidence after how you're thinking about it actually on TV.

320
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,720
But yeah, it's very cult. That is who the character

321
00:19:50,759 --> 00:19:51,359
is based upon.

322
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just put it on the side.

323
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Speaker 5: I was very disappointed and closing Cameras of the Third

324
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Kind it was so uneven. Could have been such a

325
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:05,039
great film, but they went crazy with this building them

326
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:07,519
out and thing that they just focused way too much

327
00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:11,279
on that, and there are elements of the lake.

328
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 3: But I'd agree that the first sort of if you

329
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,039
see is react film the first act with the UFO

330
00:20:18,079 --> 00:20:22,519
phenomenous first hat to happen. That's quite chilling, quite spooky.

331
00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:25,039
That's pretty good, and it does kind of descend into

332
00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:28,559
this like world. There's very slow paced third act, especially

333
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with the UFO arriving and all the scenes of that,

334
00:20:31,519 --> 00:20:35,440
which it's like over's a good movie. Certainly, Yes, you

335
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,960
say that he is the references, the character is his

336
00:20:39,039 --> 00:20:41,920
valet literally in the film, in the form of that friendship.

337
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,920
I always thought that it was a logical progression to

338
00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:51,960
move into that kind of territory because we have different

339
00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:54,839
kinds of phenomena that reported around the world, different forms

340
00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:00,920
of strange strange to call it to just how can

341
00:21:01,079 --> 00:21:06,000
a UFOs, the spaceships and other planets can't be ghosts phenomena,

342
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,680
you know, it's all that kind of stuff, and there's

343
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no meeting of the two. It makes sense when you

344
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,960
think the vast, arranged and variety of these things, I

345
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,960
mean almost two UFO experiences are like you look at all

346
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,599
the hundreds of different shapes and forms of actual space

347
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of UFOs. They're all the different kinds of suppose aliens,

348
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and hundreds of them. It's like, well, can we all

349
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:30,720
be so different? Why a few reports of the same

350
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,240
creature being seen over an real apartment, as we could say,

351
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But certainly the wide variety. The big question of are

352
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,079
these hundreds of different alien life ones all come to

353
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Earth and going again or something else that's going on

354
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is the high strangers, there's manifestation of extreme it's a

355
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water terrestrial kind of area. Instead that we are talk

356
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about these kinds of things that do take on certain forms,

357
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that are here to different cultural ideas, and that to

358
00:21:57,319 --> 00:21:59,119
me is what the way is really kind of expressing

359
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,160
these and the examples of these altnates appearing in a

360
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,119
certain way, in a certain form to the culture that

361
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,480
was identified or seeing them. Yeah.

362
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Speaker 4: Well, as I said many times before, in the olden.

363
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Speaker 5: Days, we had we had the coolest aliens, humanoids whatever

364
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,200
they were, you know, Kelly Hopkinsville, uh flat Woods, the

365
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:23,359
Cisco Grove aliens.

366
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Speaker 4: And on and on, and then.

367
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Speaker 5: You know, toward the end of the seventies we had

368
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close encounters and then we had that uh that cover.

369
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Nobody will ever forget of Whitney Streemer's communion.

370
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Speaker 4: And then and.

371
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Speaker 5: Then the grays kind of well you used to be

372
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able to find a gray once in a while, and uh,

373
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but uh, and then they sort of took over. I

374
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,480
contend a lot of people think that, uh, Betting Barney

375
00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:49,440
Hill were taken by grays. But if you look at

376
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,559
the illustrations, uh, they to me, they don't look like grays.

377
00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:57,640
Speaker 4: A gray looks like a you know.

378
00:22:57,559 --> 00:23:00,839
Speaker 5: When we you have a uh, human being and you

379
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:05,359
make a simplified version of them. Uh, that's what the

380
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,759
grays look like to me. Compared to the Betty and

381
00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:12,119
Barney Hill aliens. It's almost like a like a toy,

382
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:13,680
like a blow up toy.

383
00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 4: Maybe, yeah, or to the actual whatever Betty and Barney

384
00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:20,839
Hill actually experienced.

385
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 2: And you have the same thing with little people sightings

386
00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:32,000
throughout the world. They all have similar characteristics, similar behaviors

387
00:23:32,039 --> 00:23:36,480
and traits, but they all look different in different areas,

388
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,559
and you know, you have ones that are you know,

389
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,720
more common. There's nothing like the grays with little people,

390
00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:46,960
but you do kind of like, you know, see things

391
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:53,920
being more prevalent. But it's very similar to different alien sightings.

392
00:23:54,039 --> 00:23:57,400
You know, you have the Nordics and the Grays and

393
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,559
then the one offs. It's the same thing with little

394
00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:02,759
people as well, which you could throw in the fay

395
00:24:02,839 --> 00:24:07,680
bucket for the argument here, but it's.

396
00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 1: It's very similar, just looked at through a different lens,

397
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:11,519
I think.

398
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,599
Speaker 3: I mean a good example is the coal from US

399
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,200
European underground dwellers that you look similar to, that kind

400
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:23,400
of small, aggressive looking creature. There's a similarity there. But

401
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,720
I think as you talked that before, back in the

402
00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:29,039
sort of Victorian times and those times earlier, these things

403
00:24:29,039 --> 00:24:31,400
came from the ground. They came underground, I came from hills,

404
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,720
came from the mountains. Now they come from the sky.

405
00:24:34,079 --> 00:24:37,000
But it's almost like they've come from somewhere because the

406
00:24:37,079 --> 00:24:39,119
appear in front of us. But are the bright light

407
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,839
spaceships that we see today or have they come from

408
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,079
underground dwellings that we would have seen in the past.

409
00:24:44,079 --> 00:24:49,920
I mean a lot of folkow material which I have written about,

410
00:24:50,519 --> 00:24:52,279
and a lot of these descriptions are to it about

411
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,920
hillside and forests, and those are the places these things

412
00:24:56,599 --> 00:25:00,000
emerged from. So they kind of appear from different places

413
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,960
is modern times, so have the use of appear I

414
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,559
think it's just again it's a cultural thing. It's a change,

415
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,319
and it is say, highlight those the real oddities. It's

416
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,960
the it's almost like passable. Magori is almost like deconstruction,

417
00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:18,319
the philosophical approach where you'd take apart what is known

418
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,440
and find the bits that don't fit the anomally to

419
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,319
the ideas, and when you're dealing with predominant nuts a

420
00:25:24,319 --> 00:25:27,359
bolt spaceships are ideas of those times, and he's finding

421
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,519
those stories that just don't fit those theories at all.

422
00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:34,160
The philodopically deconstructing the whole notion of UFOs and covering

423
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,680
this whole mass of strangeness that is historic but also

424
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,440
is of its time as well. So that's another I

425
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,960
find fascinating, this whole idea of just looking between the

426
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,160
lines to see what else is gone, what's being ignored almost.

427
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,119
I mean, the whole idea of nutsuports UFOs sounds crazy

428
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:54,759
to the average public anyway, So for us to say

429
00:25:54,759 --> 00:25:57,559
well that's that, probably not it's even weird stuff going

430
00:25:57,559 --> 00:26:02,559
on a bit too much, perhaps, Uh, you have to

431
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:04,799
put forward those ideas. In a sense, it's quite brave

432
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:06,799
because he was to be outside the moon.

433
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:13,559
Speaker 5: World see that's okay, John Keele, he uh, well, actually

434
00:26:13,599 --> 00:26:17,160
I think it may have been AFRO, the Area of

435
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,720
Phenomenal Research Organization, the Lorenzos.

436
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 4: That started talking about, you know, humanoid encounters.

437
00:26:24,039 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 5: I know that, uh Donald Keiho, he didn't want to

438
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,880
talk about it. They were happy to talk about, uh,

439
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,680
the flying saucers chasing aircraft all day.

440
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 4: Didn't want to hear about the guys, you know inside.

441
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 5: And then John Keel around that time for True Magazine

442
00:26:39,519 --> 00:26:42,240
wrote an article called never mind the saucer?

443
00:26:42,599 --> 00:26:44,200
Speaker 4: Did you see the guys who were driving?

444
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 5: And the the edit the uh, the publisher of True

445
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,640
brought on in one time to his office and he

446
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:59,440
shows them these six giant uh postal bags filled with

447
00:26:59,559 --> 00:27:03,319
letters people that had had claim some kind of an encounter.

448
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 4: So, man, it really triggered something.

449
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,799
Speaker 5: And I think that's around the time that Kiel was

450
00:27:08,839 --> 00:27:10,720
thinking about window areas.

451
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 4: You know, what, what are these?

452
00:27:13,759 --> 00:27:17,039
Speaker 5: They seem to pop in and pop out, including cryptids.

453
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,640
They come in, scare the crap out of people, maybe lead,

454
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,039
some footprints, hair.

455
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 4: Samples, and then they're gone.

456
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,519
Speaker 5: So there is there is something, whether we you know,

457
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:34,039
follow Keel's transmodification of energy or you know or or

458
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:38,759
whatever it seems like. Perhaps, but Susie was saying, perhaps

459
00:27:38,799 --> 00:27:44,279
these things simply manifest differently, and I can't help but

460
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,119
think that. So Arthur Conan Doyle in the Coming of

461
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,480
the Fairy saying that the appearance of the fairies that

462
00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:55,559
determined isn't determined largely by the person viewing them.

463
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,319
Speaker 4: And he said that a long time ago, and I

464
00:27:58,319 --> 00:27:59,119
think he was right.

465
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,759
Speaker 3: I went off and such the example of marginal Chronicles

466
00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:05,880
of Mars as I remember as a kidding. We had

467
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,400
quite an influence on the obviously, but that's the same idea.

468
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:11,599
The guy was the vicar was seeing Christ at the

469
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,680
back of the church, and the march was saying, stop

470
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,319
doing this to me. It hurts. I'm appearing how you

471
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:18,960
want me to appear. That's not my appearance, but I'm

472
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,359
getting it from you, and you're inforcing that upon me.

473
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,839
And they don't want to feel like this, And you know,

474
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,559
that's one of the things I think that when you

475
00:28:26,599 --> 00:28:29,799
approach these kind of experiences throughout your normal, if you've

476
00:28:29,839 --> 00:28:31,759
got an idea what you think you're supposed to be like,

477
00:28:32,079 --> 00:28:34,799
then you might see the UFO as it's supposed to appear.

478
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:38,359
To be. But if you don't have any preconceptions of

479
00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:41,359
what this is just weird, you know, you get the product.

480
00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:44,440
Just the lighted normally has been the first kind of

481
00:28:44,599 --> 00:28:47,519
experience that people have is just a strange light then

482
00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:53,559
becomes something else has been a common initial experience of.

483
00:28:54,759 --> 00:28:55,079
Speaker 1: Steve.

484
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: Did Vallet in any of his other books get into

485
00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:03,599
any of his theories behind what this phenomena was, where

486
00:29:03,599 --> 00:29:05,799
it was coming from. Kil kind of did a lot

487
00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:09,759
of work in trying to, like, you know, talk about

488
00:29:10,359 --> 00:29:16,039
radio signals and the light spectrum and sound spectrum and

489
00:29:16,079 --> 00:29:17,000
trying to explain it.

490
00:29:17,039 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: Did will I ever get into that?

491
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,519
Speaker 5: Well, there is a but I just find it here

492
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:26,880
really quickly a brief, little little passage towards the end

493
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,519
of the book. He says, I won't read the whole thing,

494
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:36,079
but he says, there exists a natural phenomenon whose manifestations

495
00:29:36,319 --> 00:29:38,640
order on both the physical and the mental.

496
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,759
Speaker 4: There is a medium in which human dreams can be implemented,

497
00:29:43,279 --> 00:29:47,240
and this is the mechanism by which UFO events are generated,

498
00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:51,920
needing no superior intelligence to trigger them. It goes on further.

499
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,680
So I don't know if that's it, you know, is

500
00:29:56,759 --> 00:29:58,759
full I mean, that's that book was written back in

501
00:29:58,759 --> 00:29:59,279
the sixties.

502
00:29:59,319 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 5: So I don't know if you still that is the

503
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:06,039
full scope, but it sounds a lot like Carl Jung.

504
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 4: It sounds a lot like Keel's co creation with whatever

505
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,240
this this energy or intelligence is. And so it may

506
00:30:16,279 --> 00:30:16,799
be that.

507
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 5: And then you know, we've got Albert Rosales his incredible database.

508
00:30:24,039 --> 00:30:28,519
Speaker 4: You go through those fifteen books from one ad to

509
00:30:29,759 --> 00:30:34,640
what twenty fifteen, and my god, we talk about a

510
00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:39,640
variety of entities humanoids or beings or whatever they are.

511
00:30:40,319 --> 00:30:44,240
So it suggests that.

512
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,359
Speaker 5: Unless this is an incredible grand central station for all

513
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,319
kinds of entities that just flow through here for some reason.

514
00:30:55,319 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 4: I don't know why they'd want to flow through here.

515
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,119
Speaker 5: Maybe it's cheaper to go through the planet Earth in

516
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,720
some other places, I don't know, save a few pounds,

517
00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:12,039
save a few bucks. So I that's the only thing

518
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,279
that comes to mind at the moment, is that you

519
00:31:16,359 --> 00:31:18,559
seem to think there was something something to do with

520
00:31:19,039 --> 00:31:23,200
I guess human consciousness. But as you know, even even

521
00:31:23,319 --> 00:31:26,599
Keel backtrack a little bit later on he with the

522
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,440
et idea. He said, look, I the the my ultra

523
00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:34,400
terrestrial idea of the or whatever is just he thinks

524
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,000
that there's more than one.

525
00:31:35,839 --> 00:31:39,039
Speaker 4: Answer to these things, and I guess there it seems

526
00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:41,319
like there has to be more than one answer to

527
00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:44,480
these things, that one one answer doesn't fit all, you

528
00:31:44,519 --> 00:31:45,119
know for sure.

529
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, as we were talking, I'm kind of like realizing

530
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,160
maybe that's what left something to be.

531
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,079
Speaker 1: Desired for me with this book. What I liked about

532
00:31:58,279 --> 00:32:00,359
fil is like.

533
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 2: No one, no one's going to solve this, right, It's

534
00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:06,839
just kind of like the nature of the phenomena is

535
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,720
it doesn't want to be solved. It seems like, but

536
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,799
Keil really tried. He gave you a lot to think about,

537
00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:18,160
and even like when you put that book down, you

538
00:32:18,319 --> 00:32:23,160
keep thinking right And Passport to Magonia didn't do the

539
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,079
same thing for me. It was just kind of like

540
00:32:26,119 --> 00:32:30,400
a compilation of cool stories and that was the end.

541
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,559
Speaker 1: Like, once I finished it, I was done.

542
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,519
Speaker 4: Oh I'm so depressed. I'll get over it.

543
00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 3: Get The big part of that is that he was

544
00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:42,640
one of the first of that kind of thing to

545
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,720
find that there's a highest strange I mean, you say

546
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,720
he's quoting from magazines because there's are sort of like

547
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:49,960
you need to find those of the stories and there

548
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,839
was nobody who sat down a really kind of compiled

549
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,640
and when you put me that's really what Agonia does

550
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:58,200
is a compilation of all these really old events that

551
00:32:58,839 --> 00:33:02,799
just don't fit even the more normal paranormal understandings, you

552
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,839
know what I mean. He was going beyond that as well,

553
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,480
But it wasn't the last week now the chance because

554
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,119
we're working on the things, But it was there's all

555
00:33:11,119 --> 00:33:14,119
those books that didn't strike me as being really quite

556
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:19,079
impressive for me first, and my first acquired it to be.

557
00:33:20,119 --> 00:33:23,839
Speaker 5: I don't know, she vanished mysteriously. Maybe maybe she maybe

558
00:33:23,839 --> 00:33:25,240
she's ashamed.

559
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:28,359
Speaker 4: Of all the horrible things she said about past coort.

560
00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 3: It's usually cut her off.

561
00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:38,519
Speaker 5: But the one thing that I really really like, but

562
00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:42,359
you know, you know, it's a good point, Andy, this

563
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,039
is this is an early book, back in the nineteen

564
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:48,960
sixties and even even later on. He I think when

565
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,319
he in an introduction to the follow up, he or

566
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,799
what did some interviews or whatever, He said that, you know,

567
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:58,480
some some mistakes.

568
00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 4: Were made in the first one that he would have

569
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:00,680
like to correct it.

570
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 5: I don't know which which ones, but it was like,

571
00:34:03,079 --> 00:34:05,960
you know, you do the sequel and you can straighten

572
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,920
some things out. One of the things I just absolutely

573
00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:14,760
love about Ligonia is his I would have never known

574
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,199
about Walter Evans Wentz and the fairy faith in Celtic

575
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,519
Countries if it hadn't been for Jacques Fillet, that the

576
00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:27,880
idea that this this theosophist, this irishman went through Ireland

577
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,159
in the early nineteen hundreds and talked to people about

578
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:38,000
their experiences like we do talking about people about their

579
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,800
bigfoot signing or real Pimo signing. And this wasn't just

580
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:44,800
you know, a whole Ebenezer from one hundred years ago

581
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:46,079
talking about the fairies.

582
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,039
Speaker 4: These are people that had what they believe, real experiences

583
00:34:50,079 --> 00:34:55,880
in real time. And so yeah, really, and so I did.

584
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,840
I do have the book and I've read parts of it.

585
00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:02,519
Speaker 5: But of course the fairy faith in Celtic Countries is

586
00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:05,039
almost as big as a ASP, maybe not quite.

587
00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 4: The big No No book is as big as.

588
00:35:10,119 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: It's half drying. So I did it too much credit?

589
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 3: Fair enough.

590
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,679
Speaker 4: The thing I love about OASP is the charts. Man.

591
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,760
They've got these phenomenal charts. They may not mean anything.

592
00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:24,119
It could be the ravings of a man man or

593
00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:27,159
a genius. I don't know, but any book that has

594
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,280
charts in it like that is cool.

595
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:33,159
Speaker 3: In my book, one section that really stuck I have,

596
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,679
the one that I have read again at failure recently,

597
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,480
was when Vale's talking about the Secret Commonwealth Kirk's book.

598
00:35:41,199 --> 00:35:44,079
Because I'm actually working on a new edition of that

599
00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:48,639
particular book. It's got obviously the original book itself. There

600
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,519
came across an analysis of the text written about the

601
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:55,079
nineteen twenties, so it's it's sound of copyrights, very useful.

602
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:58,719
It will be part of the yes, because what I

603
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,039
found is this an analysis this guy has done of

604
00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:03,559
the text, which was probably in the nineteen thirties, I

605
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:04,920
think it was the twenties, and it's the only time

606
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:06,559
I've been published. It's not been done again. I has

607
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:09,719
to find an early copy of it. So it's so

608
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,920
I'm actually working for another print of mine runs Troy Books.

609
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,639
I'm not working on this for them because they're doing

610
00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:17,719
a lot of series of these older folklore books, so

611
00:36:18,119 --> 00:36:20,880
hopefully about next year. So that's so. Of course I've

612
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,800
reread the section where they talks about this Cordworth material,

613
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,800
and Kirk's view is very developed, we say, for some

614
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,000
writing in the sixteen hundreds, it's very clearly developed in

615
00:36:32,039 --> 00:36:35,400
his ideas that we're talking about an underground common wealth.

616
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,320
There's a whole host of these beings that are living there,

617
00:36:38,679 --> 00:36:41,519
that are all part of this literally underground as well

618
00:36:41,519 --> 00:36:44,960
as metaphorically hidden away underground that He's obviously a lot

619
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,920
of research himself at the time. So I've been working

620
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,639
on they say you should be out, hoping we'll probably

621
00:36:51,639 --> 00:36:55,159
next year again Kee it worked on. But I'd say

622
00:36:55,159 --> 00:36:58,199
it's a combination of the original text is very good

623
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,119
analysis which has not seeing the light of those it's

624
00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:04,239
nineteen twenties, actually assume that that was an are again.

625
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:09,840
It's it's this idea of this otherness that was always there,

626
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,440
has always been with us, perhaps more so today we

627
00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:16,079
tend to ignore even more because they always become very

628
00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:20,840
maturistic based sort of the pointed world does anything that's real,

629
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,360
and as we know, people can begin to explore the

630
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,519
stranger stuff tend to get laughed at, even though we

631
00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:29,719
know that the American government, for example, is this is

632
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,320
you ees is interesting stuff they actually are researching that

633
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,840
happened for a number of years, but still the average

634
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,880
person the street would would not but at the same

635
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,760
time tell stories of their own, of their own strange experiences.

636
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,519
You know, they might say, I don't believe in this stuff.

637
00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:46,119
I have this happens, that happened to me. And often

638
00:37:46,119 --> 00:37:49,239
when you talk to these people who don't believe in market,

639
00:37:49,559 --> 00:37:52,199
we draw down with them. They're more afraid than anything else.

640
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,679
They don't want the idea of there being strange things

641
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,400
going around them all that they don't notice. They'd rather

642
00:37:57,519 --> 00:38:01,239
not know about it rather pretend none of its. GMA

643
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,719
finds a psychological fascinating condition to take. It's like, well

644
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:07,360
it's real, deal with it. No, I don't want to

645
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,960
do no, no, no, no, I don't know's.

646
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:14,639
Speaker 5: It is still here with us, even though some modern

647
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,239
d UFO experiences are are very are almost carbon copies

648
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,320
of the with a few embellishments of some of the

649
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:28,480
o old encounters. Rosemary Ellen Guiley, who great researcher we

650
00:38:28,519 --> 00:38:31,719
lost a few years ago. She was in I don't

651
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,320
know she was in Ireland or England, but she was

652
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,519
sitting down across Legon and she looked across and there

653
00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:40,760
was this little man with a you know, sitting across

654
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,760
Legan with the hat and the beard and everything.

655
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,639
Speaker 4: They kind of looked at each other for a while,

656
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:46,360
and eventually he faded away.

657
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 5: Uh you know, Uh Paul Devereaux, who writes all the

658
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,519
books on he talked about an experience he had. He

659
00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:55,920
was there with his wife and he saw this this

660
00:38:56,039 --> 00:38:58,639
little little being and it was kind of hard to

661
00:38:58,639 --> 00:39:01,360
see him at first, because it's almost like he was

662
00:39:01,679 --> 00:39:05,239
camouflaged with a sort of like looked a little bit

663
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,239
like bark, like part of a tree or whatever. I mean,

664
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,039
he kind of blended in and then again he just

665
00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:12,559
kind of faded away.

666
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,679
Speaker 4: So people are still having the classic.

667
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 5: Fade the fairy experiences today. I don't know what the

668
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,079
hell I do if, like, if it happened to me,

669
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:29,480
I might I might be I might be heading for

670
00:39:29,519 --> 00:39:30,559
the next county line.

671
00:39:30,599 --> 00:39:33,159
Speaker 3: I don't know happening you did. That's whole idea, want

672
00:39:33,159 --> 00:39:35,320
you to have this experience. Just a very quick bridge

673
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,400
plug for second. There then the Parallem, the UK network,

674
00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:40,840
the YouTube channel I Wrong, which has got our shows on.

675
00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:44,320
I recently re uploaded our hours his long time ago

676
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,079
KTPS interview Roosevel and Guy. So that's actually on there

677
00:39:48,159 --> 00:39:50,039
as a recent new addition. So I want to pop

678
00:39:50,039 --> 00:39:52,280
along take you can listen to her talking about going

679
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,079
to the Gin. I think became a real kind of

680
00:39:54,079 --> 00:39:58,920
focus for towards towards the end been these the Middle

681
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,599
East and Islamic, well they became Islam, that they predated Islam.

682
00:40:02,679 --> 00:40:06,119
But the Gin spirits where the genie idea comes from. Again,

683
00:40:06,199 --> 00:40:09,039
that's the same kind of creature, this kind of living

684
00:40:09,039 --> 00:40:11,239
amongst us, particularly Gin. The either of these sort of

685
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,480
the fire being even in fire that are around. We

686
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,360
said that they're present all the time, which as you

687
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,960
don't notice and being, and she'd become quite interested in those.

688
00:40:21,199 --> 00:40:23,280
That's what the end of the life they were. So

689
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,000
the interview there is on our and the Paranam UK

690
00:40:26,199 --> 00:40:29,639
radio and a panel UK network, the YouTube Chantecle radio.

691
00:40:29,679 --> 00:40:32,159
It's more than just that you want to have listened

692
00:40:32,159 --> 00:40:33,159
to that if she's on there.

693
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:41,280
Speaker 2: So were there any of the stories that were either

694
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:49,239
particularly compelling towards or were there any that you were

695
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,519
like this hogwash, just throw the whole thing away.

696
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:54,159
Speaker 1: Anything to stick out to you either way?

697
00:40:54,519 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 3: Well, for me it would be the Thing of Commonwealth

698
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,360
because it's quite in the sixties and fifty is a

699
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,599
pretty obscure book that actually sort of tracked it down

700
00:41:01,679 --> 00:41:04,840
and it was publicly sixteen a long time ago. There

701
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:07,360
was nine Times edition, but it wasn't well known. It's

702
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,559
quite a short little book. So the Fact even found that,

703
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:16,280
and then I was quite impressed for that obously so.

704
00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:21,599
Speaker 2: And I know I keep comparing him to Keel, but

705
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,639
there there was one story in there where, you know,

706
00:41:25,039 --> 00:41:27,320
Keel in Mothman.

707
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: Prophecies, talks about.

708
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,559
Speaker 2: Only men get symptoms of STDs after UFO sightings.

709
00:41:36,159 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: And I said, that is a load of horse crap.

710
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,639
When I read that, I had the same experience reading this.

711
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:49,239
There was one story where married man was gone.

712
00:41:49,079 --> 00:41:53,639
Speaker 2: I think it was six days and he uh, just disappeared,

713
00:41:53,679 --> 00:41:56,559
and then he came home and said.

714
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,119
Speaker 1: Oh no, I was out playing my flute. I was

715
00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:00,400
only gone half an hour.

716
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 2: There were these weird little men that were there, but

717
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,679
I swear I was only gone half an hour. And

718
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,760
I think that the evidence he used to make it

719
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:16,400
compelling was that the man was clean shaven after six days.

720
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, he shaved at his mistress's house before

721
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:19,880
he came home.

722
00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 3: Like, big deal, I can tell aliens.

723
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 4: Well, I confess I've never had to use that excuse.

724
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 3: Just popped my head. Punk watches. You you're the expert

725
00:42:36,519 --> 00:42:40,639
in that particular. Are they and female or you? You

726
00:42:40,679 --> 00:42:41,239
can't tell?

727
00:42:42,519 --> 00:42:50,719
Speaker 2: So I have never heard of any that seemed to

728
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:56,559
not be male, for punk wedges specifically, but I have

729
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:02,840
heard of little people sightings. Actually what a woman I

730
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,280
just spoke to a few weeks ago said she had

731
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,199
seen about a dozen of them together, and you, there

732
00:43:09,199 --> 00:43:13,239
were definitely some female and some male, But I've only

733
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:18,119
ever heard of as appearing to be male.

734
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,559
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. It seemed to be the majority of UFO

735
00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:27,679
figures being cited or even asexual old men doesn't tend

736
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,679
to be a blue female aliens, which is.

737
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 4: Interesting to imagine a feminine I don't really.

738
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:40,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the thing about punk weadges, they have the

739
00:43:40,559 --> 00:43:43,719
big pot belly that everyone says like you can't tell

740
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,719
if they have pants on or not because the pot

741
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,000
belly hangs down too low, so they could be.

742
00:43:48,199 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 5: Sexual pot bellies. They're male that pregnant polity.

743
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:03,599
Speaker 2: But I think my favorite story he talks about is

744
00:44:03,679 --> 00:44:07,719
and Jeffries, which I think is perfect for both of

745
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,119
you because it has some parallels with the Shaver mystery.

746
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: It's also I have a theory to explain it.

747
00:44:18,679 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 2: Partially with psychology, but just you know, a quick reminder

748
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,519
and Jeffries this was it would would have been around

749
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:29,760
sixteen forty because she got thrown in prison around the

750
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:36,159
time of the English Civil War, so she had basically

751
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,719
become an indentured servant around the age of twelve.

752
00:44:41,079 --> 00:44:44,599
Speaker 1: And she actually, by.

753
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:48,599
Speaker 2: Her account, she sought out the fae and she would

754
00:44:48,599 --> 00:44:51,719
go into the woods. And I don't think he gets

755
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,239
into this much detail in passport, but there's a lot

756
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:02,000
of information about it out there. She there's there's different

757
00:45:02,599 --> 00:45:06,360
accounts of how big they were, but in a lot

758
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,840
of the time she describes them as like fitting and

759
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:13,800
sitting in her hand, so very small and multiple of them, but.

760
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:18,199
Speaker 1: There was one main one.

761
00:45:18,159 --> 00:45:23,119
Speaker 2: That she had a more more of a connection with.

762
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:28,880
But she had an intimate physical relationship with these beings

763
00:45:30,039 --> 00:45:36,880
and they would give her this magical bread and eventually

764
00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:41,599
she got healing powers. But she was through this, she

765
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:47,719
actually became more involved and passionate about the church at

766
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:54,079
the time, and I believe she was Catholic, but there

767
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,280
because of the time period, it was very there was

768
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:03,519
a lot of back and forth between Protestants and Catholics,

769
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,159
and she got herself in trouble and thrown in prison

770
00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:11,360
at one point, and instead of having her sit in prison,

771
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,599
they actually took her to stay with I believe the

772
00:46:13,679 --> 00:46:17,079
mayor or you know, the authority figure of the town

773
00:46:17,119 --> 00:46:24,159
at that point, and without food. They weren't allowing her

774
00:46:24,159 --> 00:46:28,719
to eat for whatever reason, but she did fine because

775
00:46:28,599 --> 00:46:32,159
the little people were bringing her the bread, and at

776
00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:35,199
one point she gave someone the bread I believe was

777
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:38,800
with her brother, who said it was the best bread

778
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:42,199
he'd ever have. I don't know how good bread was

779
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,440
around sixteen forty, but it could have been great.

780
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:57,119
Speaker 1: I don't know. But what I what it feels like

781
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,719
to me is that.

782
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:05,519
Speaker 2: She experienced some kind of abuse and this was kind

783
00:47:05,559 --> 00:47:13,079
of a like psychological getaway for her. But the trauma

784
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:19,400
from whatever abuse she was going through maybe opened her

785
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:24,679
up to be able to tap into something because she

786
00:47:25,119 --> 00:47:31,840
was very much known to be a healer and pretty successfully.

787
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,480
Because this was, you know, sixteen forty, she didn't get

788
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,159
like locked up for witchcraft and executed or anything.

789
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: Right, she was.

790
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 2: Still in the good graces of the church. Even though

791
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:47,679
she spoke openly about this, and she even talks about, well,

792
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:49,119
everyone in town loved me.

793
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: It's I don't. It just seems weird, like the time.

794
00:47:55,159 --> 00:47:58,639
Speaker 2: Period, and then she's getting the special treatment staying with

795
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,519
the mayor instead of in prison.

796
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 1: I think that might have partially been because she was kind.

797
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:12,039
Speaker 2: Of like starting citing religious fights in the prison. And

798
00:48:12,079 --> 00:48:14,400
she's a woman too, so you know, having a woman

799
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,000
in prison can be problematic.

800
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: But I don't it's there. I think there was a

801
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,480
lot going on in her real life.

802
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, what's some of her experiences in a trance state

803
00:48:28,119 --> 00:48:30,079
where she didn't leave her bed, but she had all

804
00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:33,719
these imaginary experiences with the fairies.

805
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

806
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if it wasn't for that very physical, tangible bread,

807
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:46,119
you could write it off as just you know, delusions

808
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,760
or dreams or what have you. But the bread and

809
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,280
the healing, there's something else going on there.

810
00:48:54,639 --> 00:49:01,320
Speaker 5: I think there's another incident that Lay talks about Knock Ireland,

811
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:04,960
the UH where they see the uh it's raining and

812
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,119
they see this this light up above and the three

813
00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:12,000
figures I think were the Virgin Mary, John the Baptist,

814
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,000
and I can't remember what the third one was. But

815
00:49:16,039 --> 00:49:19,079
people were seeing these images there and they would go

816
00:49:19,199 --> 00:49:22,440
up and one woman went to put her arms around Mary,

817
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,400
and it just went right through and the rain wasn't

818
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,000
touching the area it was.

819
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 4: But the thing is the the if this was seen

820
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:32,320
in a different.

821
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,639
Speaker 5: Context, I mean, if they were if there were aliens,

822
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:37,880
you know, in the little silver suits, it would have

823
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,280
been it could have been the same type of phenomena

824
00:49:40,559 --> 00:49:43,599
only viewed differently, but in this way in a very

825
00:49:43,639 --> 00:49:45,239
religious context.

826
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:48,079
Speaker 4: And I always thought that was a fascinating experience.

827
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,280
Speaker 3: It was the kind of idea that it's maybe that

828
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,360
they present themselves in that form or that sent me

829
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,360
what you see it as. It's the kind of thing

830
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,800
your brain seeing something he doesn't understand to form into

831
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:05,199
something that makes sense. So you're seeing that religious figure

832
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,639
even though what is actually there it doesn't look at

833
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:10,119
all because a brain can't recomprehend it. I mean there

834
00:50:10,119 --> 00:50:14,039
always up with power story the American Natives, and if

835
00:50:14,159 --> 00:50:18,119
the Westerns first arrive, they've seen from the American Native

836
00:50:18,159 --> 00:50:21,679
stories they have geared on the shore from nowhere because

837
00:50:21,679 --> 00:50:24,280
the ships are out there, but they see nothing even

838
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,000
remotely like that. The brain couldn't even see it. It

839
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:29,920
was like almost deleted out. So if you've got this

840
00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:32,400
kind of amorphous thing that you can't make sense of

841
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,000
your brain latches into what makes sense follow you. I mean,

842
00:50:36,039 --> 00:50:38,880
it's it's a human psychological phenomena. You alder all the time.

843
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,239
You take anything that's got two dots on the line

844
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:42,719
and you see a face, even though it's just two

845
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,920
dots on the line. Our brains are geared to pattern recognition,

846
00:50:46,639 --> 00:50:50,079
So of course they see If the religious, religiously minded

847
00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:53,320
they see this thing, they start seeing as a religious figure,

848
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,880
bit version, Marria, Jesus, whoever, because that's the brain's geared

849
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:00,199
to see it. People seeing visions of Siva or or

850
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,960
Christian in Indian culture, because again they're geared to seeing

851
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,159
those kinds of things. That's how their minds are working.

852
00:51:06,199 --> 00:51:10,480
So you can say that these things take on those forms,

853
00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:14,559
or they actually don't. They stay at morphless blobs, but

854
00:51:14,639 --> 00:51:16,880
our brains see them as That goes back to you

855
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:20,159
said before about the young Gin concept, that it's archetypal.

856
00:51:20,199 --> 00:51:24,400
Their forms are in our subconscious and the things don't

857
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:27,880
even form into that imagery, but that we still see

858
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,519
them being like that, because that's our brains are geared

859
00:51:30,599 --> 00:51:31,000
to work.

860
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,639
Speaker 5: You think, because the context of it was a a

861
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:42,440
Catholic belief system. Yeah, but but again you wonder what

862
00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:47,639
generated this in the first place. Yes, you know, even

863
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,000
I mentioned Dubard whales many times, a double enigma by

864
00:51:53,039 --> 00:51:58,480
Puman Halliday. They had all these bizarre more stuff going on.

865
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,119
But initially when they were having a caravan a trailer

866
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,239
by the by the sea, they were having some mild

867
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:06,320
poltergeist phenomena.

868
00:52:06,559 --> 00:52:09,320
Speaker 4: They would look out the window, through the window only

869
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:14,199
at ten o'clock PM every night, they would see the

870
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:15,480
Virgin Mary.

871
00:52:15,559 --> 00:52:18,480
Speaker 5: Would form all dressed in white with a rosary, and

872
00:52:18,639 --> 00:52:21,400
eventually it would morph into the image of Jesus and

873
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:26,039
then fade away. Several hundred people's saws and uh, you know,

874
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:31,119
people that that aren't from a Catholic tradition would say, oh,

875
00:52:31,159 --> 00:52:33,519
it's got to be something else, because you know.

876
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 4: It's it's the Virgin Mary with the with the rosary

877
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:36,559
and so forth.

878
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 5: Others from the Catholic tradition would say, well, yeah, this

879
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:44,840
is an actual manifestation of the Virgin Mary. But again,

880
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:49,360
you wonder what triggers these things. Is it that is

881
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:53,440
that Carl Young's collective unconscious bubbling up every once in

882
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:57,159
a while and just kind of leaking out, and and uh,

883
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,360
and uh and and uh manifesting some well.

884
00:53:02,199 --> 00:53:04,519
Speaker 3: Yes, well yes and no in a sense that that

885
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:07,599
if the thing is actually present to us as a

886
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:10,440
phenomena before us, and then our brains are giving it

887
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,719
a form, but it's coming from that collective identity, the

888
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,559
idea the same before. Now they were all the Catholics

889
00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:18,119
are seeing the Virgin Mary out of the window. If

890
00:53:18,119 --> 00:53:19,840
he had a bunch of Hindus sitting out there, they

891
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:24,360
went to the Virgin Mary, they see that the woman.

892
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,760
Now Lutch me it's the female. Kind of a version

893
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,840
would be from Hindu bethold you with that kind of imagery,

894
00:53:31,199 --> 00:53:32,719
but what they would see so they would get a

895
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,880
different image. But what's actually out there is neither the

896
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:39,840
Virgin Mary nor Lutchy. It's just amorphous thing that is

897
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,679
taken an identity because it's what we're projetting onto it.

898
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,159
But it doesn't even form that identity. It's just what's

899
00:53:45,199 --> 00:53:45,800
in our heads.

900
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 5: So yeah, I think the brother and sisters sheepherders in

901
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,639
the eighteen hundreds, I'm not sure. In France they saw

902
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,280
in kind of a ravine. There's sort of a sort

903
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,599
of like a ufo, sort of like an egg shaped object,

904
00:54:01,679 --> 00:54:05,280
or some kind of a round glowing object, and when

905
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:09,239
the door opened or whatever they saw, the Virgin Mary

906
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,559
was in there, you know, all dressed in robes and

907
00:54:12,639 --> 00:54:16,199
so forth. And I thought, Wow, Virgin Mary showing up

908
00:54:16,199 --> 00:54:16,920
in a spaceship.

909
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,280
Speaker 4: That's pretty darn cool.

910
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:22,559
Speaker 3: I would sell you fit that kind of again. That

911
00:54:22,639 --> 00:54:26,199
philemen that what you see is what you're you're not

912
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,159
even consciously expecting to see, but it is adhering to

913
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:30,559
what your belief system is.

914
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 5: But sometimes even people like me, who can be dumber

915
00:54:37,039 --> 00:54:39,880
than dirt when it comes to this stuff, well, all

916
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:41,840
of a sudden, I mean, people that are hard to

917
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,559
know skeptics will all of a sudden see some.

918
00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:47,039
Speaker 4: Kind of a craft land in front of them, or

919
00:54:47,159 --> 00:54:50,719
or have some kind of bizarre experience. And that's always

920
00:54:52,159 --> 00:54:55,400
interesting that someone that is just it's not on the radar,

921
00:54:55,639 --> 00:54:57,920
they don't believe it, and then all of a sudden, bam,

922
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:58,920
it's right in front of them.

923
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:04,639
Speaker 2: That's why the Bill Russo Puck sighting is one of

924
00:55:04,679 --> 00:55:07,639
my favorites, because you know, when I talked to him,

925
00:55:07,679 --> 00:55:10,440
I asked him, you know, have you had any other

926
00:55:10,599 --> 00:55:14,119
experiences or you know, anyone else you know, He's like,

927
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:15,719
I'm not into this stuff at all.

928
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 1: I just saw a weird thing once, was that? And

929
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:25,039
he really like he didn't know anything.

930
00:55:24,679 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 2: About puckwags when he saw them, which made it more

931
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:29,199
interesting to me.

932
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: It was you know, someone else that posited, Oh, I.

933
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,559
Speaker 2: Think that's what you saw, and he just went with

934
00:55:34,599 --> 00:55:38,760
that because he didn't know anything else. So, but it

935
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:43,760
is weird, and uh, the story I believe it's in

936
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:48,000
Germany of the army that disappeared into a cloud.

937
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,519
Speaker 1: That all I talked about.

938
00:55:52,559 --> 00:55:56,039
Speaker 2: You know, they're it's the same time period, they're from

939
00:55:56,079 --> 00:55:58,760
the same place. Maybe they all have the same beliefs.

940
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,280
But what kind of beliefs me can disappear into a cloud?

941
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:06,519
Speaker 3: Yeah? Whatsoever? The mental gateways opened.

942
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,639
Speaker 4: Up later smissing four one one.

943
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, it's parallel to that. They do simply literally

944
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,639
to disappear and occasionally took them very strange spacis miles

945
00:56:15,639 --> 00:56:18,039
away from where they've disappeared from. But I think just

946
00:56:18,039 --> 00:56:20,840
get out a certain steward saying before. I think, with

947
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:24,119
our modern mindset, even if you don't believe in ufold

948
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,920
to or anything, you have been exposed to the idea.

949
00:56:27,199 --> 00:56:30,199
It kind of not been it's been on TV, been

950
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,360
a newspaper or whatever. The idea is in the psychic

951
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,679
effective psyche. But if you look at the older Victorian

952
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,119
pre Victorian folkloric storage we're talking about before, they never

953
00:56:40,159 --> 00:56:42,320
come from the spy. They've never come from spacehops, never

954
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,360
get from these lights, because there was no conception of that,

955
00:56:45,559 --> 00:56:47,400
the idea of ailing to other planets, there was no

956
00:56:47,519 --> 00:56:50,039
idea of that. So these things were never described like that.

957
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,360
They were described as they coming from the ground, from mountains,

958
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,199
from the woods. So you know there is this Even

959
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,679
if you're a skeptic non believer, you do have in

960
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:04,599
your mind an idea of things like UFOs because it's

961
00:57:04,679 --> 00:57:07,679
in the general psyche, the modern psyche now, and it's

962
00:57:07,679 --> 00:57:09,719
a kind of parallel with something I have a lot

963
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,760
of research into as well, which is sleep paralysis and

964
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,880
hypotic dreaming phenomena where people have these experiences of things

965
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:17,840
being in the room with them and they can't move,

966
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,760
won't go on a lot. So many times you'll get

967
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:26,039
boredly talking about it, but you get a certain image

968
00:57:26,119 --> 00:57:28,159
comes into mind of what's in the room with you,

969
00:57:28,239 --> 00:57:31,559
and it is definitely based on your belief systems. My

970
00:57:31,639 --> 00:57:34,639
research show people were interested in the paranormal ghosts. Even

971
00:57:34,719 --> 00:57:37,119
just horror films would have what called the Old Hag,

972
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,679
which pigure in the room sitting on their chest in

973
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,800
the UFOs or just starter or just space generally typically

974
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,400
the aliens and have abduction experiences instead. And even these

975
00:57:48,519 --> 00:57:52,159
real experiences, I believe there were psychological experiences because those

976
00:57:52,199 --> 00:57:55,480
who had no interest at all in either would see

977
00:57:55,559 --> 00:57:58,519
things about family members. You know, it was definitely geared

978
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:01,239
to what you believed. And if you have a strange

979
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,079
aera like phenomena, you're going to think ufhone because it's

980
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:07,719
what you believe in these it's what's in the mental

981
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,960
in the psyche a general populist, where if it was

982
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:12,800
in the Victorian times, you wouldn't have think that for

983
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,679
a moment. When some of the stuff I've come across

984
00:58:15,679 --> 00:58:20,920
directed these strange encounters. They sometimes appear from nowhere, much

985
00:58:21,039 --> 00:58:23,679
like American enter in the ships. They're literally popping out

986
00:58:23,719 --> 00:58:25,719
of nowhere. And so these figures in front of them

987
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,679
and Matt Gray's actually take a moment with the two

988
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,159
young men that were seen that were grace into children,

989
00:58:32,639 --> 00:58:34,559
and we seem to magic a cow off a cliff

990
00:58:34,599 --> 00:58:37,840
and back up again. Pretty bizarre. So there is that

991
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,239
kind of you can't if you don't have an idea

992
00:58:41,239 --> 00:58:43,119
of where you think these things are coming from. It's

993
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:45,320
not in a psyche at all. They did shoal appear

994
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:48,159
from nowhere. But if you have been even slightly exposed

995
00:58:48,199 --> 00:58:50,840
to anything like Star Trek Star Wars, you still have

996
00:58:51,079 --> 00:58:55,480
a science fiction idea. Then you see a ufone.

997
00:58:57,239 --> 00:59:00,159
Speaker 2: Steve, you have to stop believing that you don't experiences

998
00:59:00,199 --> 00:59:05,719
things because maybe if you if you just tell yourself

999
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:09,840
you do, that's when you're gonna see a for UFO.

1000
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 4: Susie.

1001
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,119
Speaker 5: It could be because I just might be a little slow,

1002
00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:16,800
you know when I was in grade school.

1003
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,519
Speaker 4: Early in grade school, they thought I was a little slow,

1004
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,360
and they were probably right, But you know, I got

1005
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:23,679
I got faster later on.

1006
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:29,199
Speaker 5: But one of the things that really fascinated me was

1007
00:59:30,119 --> 00:59:38,719
the mushrooms sprouting up around flying saucer landing areas. He

1008
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,119
talks about, I think it's a necochia.

1009
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:45,679
Speaker 4: In UH three.

1010
00:59:45,639 --> 00:59:49,039
Speaker 5: Hundred and ten miles south of Buenos Eras, a civilian

1011
00:59:49,039 --> 00:59:52,920
pilot was passing overhead. He sees this strange pattern on

1012
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:56,599
the ground and so the he hurts the military, and

1013
00:59:56,639 --> 00:59:59,039
they go they check it out, and it's a place

1014
00:59:59,039 --> 01:00:03,519
where I'm alleged flying saucer had landed and there was

1015
01:00:03,559 --> 01:00:08,400
a circle of nine yards in diameter of eight white

1016
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:14,119
giant mushrooms growing there, and I thought, holy cow. And

1017
01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:17,639
then they mentioned there was supposedly some other places, and

1018
01:00:17,719 --> 01:00:20,199
then I went to my archives.

1019
01:00:20,239 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 3: Here.

1020
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 5: This is the old Skylook magazine which became the New

1021
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:25,559
Fund Journal.

1022
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:32,719
Speaker 4: And there was another incident. Let's see. It was the

1023
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:38,880
two technicians from the National Highway Department, two inspectors there, uh,

1024
01:00:39,119 --> 01:00:43,599
what is it, qul to Xanta with their their jurisdiction

1025
01:00:44,159 --> 01:00:45,239
and some some shield.

1026
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,159
Speaker 5: There was a school to buy and some children said

1027
01:00:47,519 --> 01:00:50,360
if they had been working on the other side of.

1028
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 4: The hill there, and they thought, what are they talking about?

1029
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:55,519
Speaker 5: And it turned out there was supposed to be some

1030
01:00:55,559 --> 01:00:59,159
strange lights or whatever had come down. But so they

1031
01:00:59,199 --> 01:01:04,400
go over there and they find that there's there're actually

1032
01:01:05,039 --> 01:01:10,159
tripod marks, uh and burn marks, suggesting perhaps some kind

1033
01:01:10,159 --> 01:01:12,440
of landing, perhaps some kind of hopes, who knows.

1034
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:17,559
Speaker 4: But then they found.

1035
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 5: Around the tripod marks were these mushrooms growing, and there

1036
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,199
were about seven of them all together, and they were

1037
01:01:24,239 --> 01:01:27,760
about the heads of them were about eight inches in diameter,

1038
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:31,440
and they're growing in this like it's a very kind

1039
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,719
of a barren rocky area. I mean, there's no no

1040
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:39,480
reason a mushroom should be growing there, And so I thought, wow,

1041
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,199
is that weird? I mean, we always associate the little

1042
01:01:43,199 --> 01:01:46,119
people with the with fairy rings, and of course fairy

1043
01:01:46,199 --> 01:01:51,840
rings are oftentimes because of the It's just a natural phenomena,

1044
01:01:52,199 --> 01:01:55,719
because you know the way the well, I can't explain

1045
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:58,800
it because I'm not very good explaining natural phenomenon But

1046
01:01:59,039 --> 01:02:00,800
it's not not supernatural.

1047
01:02:01,079 --> 01:02:01,159
Speaker 3: No.

1048
01:02:01,679 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 5: I just thought the venue of a few cases where

1049
01:02:05,519 --> 01:02:08,199
and supposedly in one of these cases they even could

1050
01:02:08,239 --> 01:02:10,280
if they if they came back after.

1051
01:02:10,079 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 4: A while, they could still see these things growing a

1052
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:17,320
little bit. So what the heck mushroom growing near a

1053
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:24,760
landing site and trying to figure that one out. Those

1054
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:26,039
are two different sources.

1055
01:02:26,719 --> 01:02:31,639
Speaker 2: If mushrooms are related to ultra terrestrials at all, or

1056
01:02:32,199 --> 01:02:36,039
or they can be controlled by ultraterrestrials, we are screwed

1057
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:38,920
because they're.

1058
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:44,519
Speaker 1: Like every every inch of the ground almost here is

1059
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,559
a micro hizal network.

1060
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:52,000
Speaker 2: Because for every mushroom you see, there is like an

1061
01:02:52,159 --> 01:03:00,639
underground megacity of like fungus, basically my cilium.

1062
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,639
Speaker 1: So like they're they're everywhere.

1063
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 2: So if we ever go too far and really tick

1064
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:11,199
off the older terrestrials and they can control the mushrooms,

1065
01:03:11,199 --> 01:03:14,519
we're goners.

1066
01:03:15,159 --> 01:03:17,119
Speaker 5: As as much as I go to a village pizza

1067
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:20,039
here in town which used to be Chinese restaurant, or

1068
01:03:20,079 --> 01:03:25,239
a famous mothman signing a tribute, I never order a mothman.

1069
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 4: Pizza because its wings are made out of mushrooms. Way

1070
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,559
the hell away from that, certainly, cause.

1071
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:37,960
Speaker 3: The mushrooms should definitely stay well away from sure, very nasty.

1072
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,639
I think someone very eis affect.

1073
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:43,760
Speaker 1: You might see a little man if you ate those.

1074
01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:48,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't. I just cannot do it.

1075
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 4: Certain certain things I cannot consume.

1076
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:56,559
Speaker 3: Well made mushroom. But yes, I can see the.

1077
01:03:56,599 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: Risk, all right.

1078
01:03:59,599 --> 01:04:02,719
Speaker 2: So I have to to say I do feel a

1079
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:09,880
little bit less scrouchy about the book after talking to

1080
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,320
you guys, which I knew I would good.

1081
01:04:13,639 --> 01:04:15,920
Speaker 3: If we were to score it out of ten, what

1082
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,800
would you say?

1083
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 1: Four point five?

1084
01:04:22,079 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 3: Okay? Enough to quote another show Steve two Paige and

1085
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:31,320
he fell off.

1086
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:38,199
Speaker 4: Then I'm just not gonna sleep well then I.

1087
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 2: I think we just got video evidence for Mac that

1088
01:04:43,079 --> 01:04:43,960
your hair is real.

1089
01:04:44,039 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 5: Though, Oh good video evidence from Mac, Yeah, because he's

1090
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:52,639
always saying you have a hair piece.

1091
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:56,599
Speaker 2: But the way you just put your head down after

1092
01:04:56,679 --> 01:05:00,719
I said five proofs because it would have flown off

1093
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:01,440
if you had.

1094
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 5: The horrible truth is they desperate, But I don't know

1095
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:08,719
why I'm going to have time to do it.

1096
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,119
Speaker 3: So well, I wish I had that problem with earlier.

1097
01:05:15,159 --> 01:05:18,239
I'd give it probably more more generous, sort of seven

1098
01:05:18,559 --> 01:05:20,960
to seven and a half, only because again, it was

1099
01:05:21,199 --> 01:05:23,280
one of the earliest ones I read of that kind

1100
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:25,159
of I mean, it was kind of a bit pompous

1101
01:05:25,159 --> 01:05:27,400
and over that was my thinking already when I started

1102
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:30,079
to discover people like Villain, and I'm not the one

1103
01:05:30,159 --> 01:05:31,599
to think like this, and I didn't know you guys

1104
01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:32,480
at that one obviously.

1105
01:05:33,519 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 2: Well we're back to my Star Wars comparison. So like

1106
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:41,599
if you if Star Wars is one of the first

1107
01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:45,360
sci fi movies that you watch, real impressive, Probably it

1108
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:46,599
was not the first.

1109
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:50,559
Speaker 1: For me, and neither was this book. So you know,

1110
01:05:51,159 --> 01:05:54,000
I'm going to believe me for you know, ruining it

1111
01:05:54,039 --> 01:05:54,400
for me.

1112
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:56,639
Speaker 3: I mean, I would compare to things on The Exorcist,

1113
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,519
and those are sort when it first came out at

1114
01:05:58,559 --> 01:06:00,760
the top of that horrified vibe, but now it's pretty

1115
01:06:01,239 --> 01:06:04,400
tame competitor fort of mongl films. But yeah, it's your

1116
01:06:04,440 --> 01:06:06,639
perspective as if it is your first week experience of

1117
01:06:06,679 --> 01:06:09,480
that kind of stuff, like for me, then it is

1118
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,480
a good, solid seven. I do get what you said.

1119
01:06:12,519 --> 01:06:14,280
I do agree that it does seem to be jump

1120
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,840
all over the place. There's lots of not really following

1121
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,039
through his stuff, lots of good examples, but the example

1122
01:06:20,079 --> 01:06:26,079
that I found fascinatingly yep, what you giving out of ten?

1123
01:06:27,239 --> 01:06:32,039
Speaker 5: Susie, The forest will be with you always. Now have

1124
01:06:32,119 --> 01:06:33,519
you seen The Empire Strikes Back?

1125
01:06:35,159 --> 01:06:36,519
Speaker 3: It was a superior film.

1126
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 4: It wasn't it was. That's the best of the original three.

1127
01:06:40,519 --> 01:06:44,239
Speaker 5: Ironically, the sequel, which has a cliffhanger at the end,

1128
01:06:44,719 --> 01:06:48,320
is the best. It is a superbly done film. You

1129
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:51,559
should check out The Empire Strikes Back.

1130
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,119
Speaker 1: Now make you guys more mad at me.

1131
01:06:55,679 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 2: The only bit of anything Star Wars related that I've

1132
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:05,320
enjoyed was the Mandalorian, So.

1133
01:07:07,719 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 1: I just like the Baby Yoda that was it.

1134
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:13,559
Speaker 3: Also, I am more of the Star Trek than Star

1135
01:07:13,639 --> 01:07:19,400
Wars Now which, Okay, Andy, which which Star Trek uh?

1136
01:07:19,519 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 4: The which which version? The original? The follow ups?

1137
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:27,719
Speaker 3: The actually to be perfectness. My favorite, I get told

1138
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:31,280
this is actually Voyager. I really enjoyed Voyager element to

1139
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:33,920
the original starter, being out there on their own, with

1140
01:07:34,119 --> 01:07:36,880
much more so up to the technology of the time

1141
01:07:37,079 --> 01:07:39,880
in terms of the special effects. Yeah, I particularly enjoyed

1142
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:43,559
the Voyager said, decideration and the movies. I'm not a

1143
01:07:43,599 --> 01:07:46,320
mad big femily the original because again, it's of its time.

1144
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:54,559
It has aged particuly well in some episodes, but it's

1145
01:07:54,639 --> 01:07:58,360
an age thing. Maybe the series.

1146
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,760
Speaker 4: Is the best they could take the rest of them.

1147
01:08:01,119 --> 01:08:03,159
I know that they've done a nice job on them.

1148
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 5: They could bury them in a shallow grave for all

1149
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,199
I care, and that would be That would be fine.

1150
01:08:09,239 --> 01:08:12,199
Speaker 3: I think each one of its audience shows so. I mean,

1151
01:08:12,239 --> 01:08:16,000
there's a particular version called Wards Discovery, which I think

1152
01:08:16,079 --> 01:08:19,720
is dreadful. It's one of the topic a bit, but

1153
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:22,279
one of the things always noticed with Star Wars is

1154
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:26,119
about want and need, about feelings, Star treks a little

1155
01:08:26,119 --> 01:08:30,159
bit about success and abundance and things are good. Voyager

1156
01:08:30,239 --> 01:08:32,920
trust to be Star Wars it tends to be sort

1157
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,199
of lots of licit things going on in the background.

1158
01:08:35,199 --> 01:08:38,000
Things are what they seem, and that's what Star Trek's about.

1159
01:08:38,039 --> 01:08:41,319
Start tanks about unity, about success, about caring for each other,

1160
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,840
and Discovery doesn't fit that into kind of framework. And

1161
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:46,960
I think on some mistake, complete off topic, I know,

1162
01:08:47,079 --> 01:08:48,279
but I just want to get that in there.

1163
01:08:49,319 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 4: Well, let me give you the best line of the

1164
01:08:52,119 --> 01:08:55,920
entire Star Wars series. Of course it's the original series. Here,

1165
01:08:55,960 --> 01:08:58,399
it gives the best line. Are you ready?

1166
01:08:59,800 --> 01:09:04,199
Speaker 5: I endeavoring man to construct a nemonic memory circuit using

1167
01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:06,319
stone knives and bear skins.

1168
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:09,119
Speaker 4: Spock said that to uh.

1169
01:09:09,239 --> 01:09:15,399
Speaker 5: Edith Keeler in uh Sitney on the Edge Forever. Yes, absolutely.

1170
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,079
Speaker 3: Foster wrote that.

1171
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:27,239
Speaker 5: Ellison and okay yea, And there was a huge pissy

1172
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:31,239
match where where Ellison uh that they they had to

1173
01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:34,880
actually change it because it was getting too long and

1174
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:39,560
too expensive. And the Dorothy Fontana, who just has nothing

1175
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:43,199
to do with Passport, but Dorothy Fontana, who became kind

1176
01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:46,560
of a story editor. She was given the task to

1177
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:50,439
rewrite some of it, and she made them swear to

1178
01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:55,439
not tell Hartland Alison that she did the rewriting. Because

1179
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:59,600
I actually met him once. Oh, and I didn't. I

1180
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,079
didn't say much anything to him. I was completely intimidated.

1181
01:10:02,239 --> 01:10:06,399
I knew his reputation, so I boy he was.

1182
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:11,640
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna I've got one more thing to make

1183
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:13,119
make you mad with Steve.

1184
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 4: Oh God, here here we go.

1185
01:10:15,399 --> 01:10:18,720
Speaker 2: The first time I saw an episode of the original,

1186
01:10:20,199 --> 01:10:23,119
I said, why is the guy from in Search Of

1187
01:10:23,319 --> 01:10:24,279
on this show.

1188
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:36,359
Speaker 4: From in Search Of? And why are his ears pointed?

1189
01:10:40,199 --> 01:10:41,840
Do you remember the episode?

1190
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:46,319
Speaker 2: Just just out of curiosity, I if I saw it again,

1191
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:51,000
like I could recognize the planet they were on, probably.

1192
01:10:53,039 --> 01:10:54,239
Speaker 1: Unless they all look the same.

1193
01:10:54,359 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was I was young. I must have

1194
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:59,239
been like seven eight years old.

1195
01:11:00,079 --> 01:11:00,560
Speaker 1: Thing like that.

1196
01:11:01,279 --> 01:11:02,319
Speaker 4: Well, go to the.

1197
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:05,279
Speaker 5: First season, toward the end, A City on the Edge

1198
01:11:05,319 --> 01:11:11,079
of Forever, John Dollar, Uh, it's it's just uh, it's

1199
01:11:11,119 --> 01:11:14,039
a very very well crafted episode with.

1200
01:11:14,159 --> 01:11:18,520
Speaker 3: John Collins of course as well. Yeah, come saying that

1201
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:21,760
you're not gonna your start of ten yet the Passport

1202
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:27,479
I'm sorry, what's your score out of ten for Passport Forgaria?

1203
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:28,119
Speaker 4: Ten?

1204
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:32,840
Speaker 5: It was ten because I had uh awakening happened with

1205
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,960
the Trojan Horse and then uh, shortly after I read

1206
01:11:36,039 --> 01:11:37,880
this and I thought, you know, I thought, oh my god,

1207
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:41,680
you know that this is making those connections between some

1208
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:44,279
elements of uh. And of course it was mostly killed

1209
01:11:44,279 --> 01:11:47,560
the folkmore, but UH and Monernya for experiences, and it

1210
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:52,279
was just it was it was sort of like, uh,

1211
01:11:52,399 --> 01:11:55,000
I don't know, Uh, I could get a little biblical here,

1212
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:59,079
Paul on the Road to Enlightenment, you know, like, uh,

1213
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:03,479
why why why are you persecuting me believing in terrestrials

1214
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:04,000
all the time?

1215
01:12:04,239 --> 01:12:07,479
Speaker 4: You dummy? You know. So I had the I.

1216
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:15,000
Speaker 2: Don't know what that brings our average to, but you know,

1217
01:12:16,039 --> 01:12:22,119
I think mine, my work could come up if.

1218
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:24,560
Speaker 1: Maybe I read another Valet book.

1219
01:12:25,119 --> 01:12:30,319
Speaker 5: Oh you listen, Susie, Susie, you have to you have

1220
01:12:30,399 --> 01:12:37,359
to read Dimensions. It's a conference Dimensions, Confrontations and Revelations.

1221
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:39,199
Speaker 4: You've got to read those three books.

1222
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 5: But also with your your view of the of the

1223
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:46,119
Trickster and all the steaky stuff going on, you have

1224
01:12:46,199 --> 01:12:46,880
to read.

1225
01:12:48,359 --> 01:12:56,800
Speaker 4: Messengers of Deception also. It's and oh and listen, they're expensive,

1226
01:12:57,319 --> 01:13:00,359
but if you can ever get out enough check to

1227
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:03,359
afford the Forbidden Science series. I don't know.

1228
01:13:03,399 --> 01:13:05,800
Speaker 5: If I'd start with the sixties, it's I would start

1229
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:09,199
with the seventies. Seventies is probably more interesting, and then

1230
01:13:09,239 --> 01:13:12,159
the eighties and and then that's all fascinating.

1231
01:13:12,359 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 4: And so you know.

1232
01:13:16,039 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 3: Well, to answer the question that would give us an

1233
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:22,119
average of seven out of ten, I think that's fair,

1234
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:26,920
not too bad. Good thing.

1235
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:30,399
Speaker 5: I'm here to get the average up. God, thank god

1236
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:31,520
I didn't take the night off.

1237
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:34,079
Speaker 4: That's all I can say.

1238
01:13:35,039 --> 01:13:41,840
Speaker 2: Definitely, well, I will cease on bringing us down and

1239
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:44,399
we'll call it a night. Now that you guys have

1240
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:48,560
you know, raised my hopes for Valat a little.

1241
01:13:48,319 --> 01:13:55,720
Speaker 4: Bit, a little bit, oh enough for our audience to

1242
01:13:55,760 --> 01:13:57,399
track it out down themselves and already it.

1243
01:13:57,399 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 3: Before that, we'll go out and try and have a past.

1244
01:14:00,239 --> 01:14:03,279
It is definitely worth reading. If you are listen to

1245
01:14:03,319 --> 01:14:06,199
this you were absolute had not some baltz Ufoe guy

1246
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:09,359
still read it, it might change your mind.

1247
01:14:10,039 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 2: Great stories, if nothing else, very interesting because the.

1248
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:16,439
Speaker 5: Thing is that people I actually talk to people at

1249
01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:21,800
the Michigan Upon Symposium in nineteen seventy six when I

1250
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:25,439
was a pariah for that, you know, talking about tel

1251
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,319
there were people when I would talk them about the

1252
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:31,319
la and the folklore and so forth, they said, well,

1253
01:14:31,359 --> 01:14:36,840
you know, they probably were just aliens, but they viewed them.

1254
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:40,359
Speaker 4: In a different context. They couldn't see clearly. What do

1255
01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:42,199
you mean they couldn't see their little red cap and

1256
01:14:42,239 --> 01:14:42,880
green tunic.

1257
01:14:43,039 --> 01:14:46,119
Speaker 1: Come on, buddy, how who are you to say?

1258
01:14:46,159 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 2: Who is the one that's seeing it clearly? M oh right,

1259
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,960
because you know that's your that's your lens.

1260
01:14:59,479 --> 01:15:02,119
Speaker 1: You don't your line is true of all of us.

1261
01:15:02,119 --> 01:15:04,279
Speaker 3: That's the saying that would be true of all of us.

1262
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:07,760
See it based on our beliefs and my own ideas,

1263
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:12,600
we might have shared unconscious notion of what these things

1264
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,600
are there see something similar? Yeah, I don't think they

1265
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:19,640
have a set identity. I mean you read reports of

1266
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:22,560
people groups people had UFO experiences, and they do often

1267
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:27,760
describe something slightly different, because that's how our minds work.

1268
01:15:29,399 --> 01:15:29,600
Speaker 4: Yep.

1269
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,760
Speaker 5: And and the and the caption for tonight under tonight's

1270
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:37,600
show should be what's the guy doing on Star Trek?

1271
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:42,560
Speaker 4: That should have been on what was it right that's.

1272
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:45,399
Speaker 1: Doing on the show?

1273
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:55,239
Speaker 5: I was little, Okay, you're still a little right in

1274
01:15:55,279 --> 01:15:56,760
a way as all.

1275
01:15:58,199 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 2: I've been the same height into fifth grade. Really, yeah,

1276
01:16:04,399 --> 01:16:06,159
I was the tall kid.

1277
01:16:06,359 --> 01:16:10,119
Speaker 5: And now I think I'm shrinking. So before long I'll

1278
01:16:10,119 --> 01:16:11,159
probably be about your hype.

1279
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:13,960
Speaker 3: Well, I'm afraid you're probably right. You probably are shrinking.

1280
01:16:14,079 --> 01:16:16,319
Must be the very last time I got measured at

1281
01:16:16,359 --> 01:16:19,720
the hospital. For different reasons. According to the measurement, I

1282
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:22,720
dropped below six foot. I've been six, I was fourteen,

1283
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:24,800
and now was SA was five ft eleven and a half.

1284
01:16:26,279 --> 01:16:29,479
Well that's like, okay, five ft eleven and a half.

1285
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:32,840
That's much sure than six foot was half an inch? Definitely, Oh,

1286
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:34,600
I am aging. Obviously I am shrinking.

1287
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:37,640
Speaker 4: That would be a great movie, Honey, I shrunk any mercer.

1288
01:16:38,159 --> 01:16:42,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, the years shrunk, but the years of tailer than pressure.

1289
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:50,720
Speaker 2: I've shrunk all right, before Andy shrinks so much he disappears,

1290
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:55,840
let's say good night to everyone. Yeah, and thanks everyone

1291
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:59,000
for watching, and well you will see you next time

1292
01:16:59,640 --> 01:16:59,680
in

1293
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 3: The see you, na,