Speaker 1: Hi everyone, thanks for watching with me.
Speaker 2: Today we have the connoisseur of the occult, Andy Mercer, Andy,
how are you?
Speaker 3: I am pretty good?
Speaker 2: And also with me is the master of high strangeness,
Steve Ward.
Speaker 1: Steve, how's it going?
Speaker 3: Very good?
Speaker 4: It's it's great to be the master at something.
Speaker 2: And I'm Susie in case anyone didn't know. So today
we're here to talk about Passport to Magonia by Jacques Vallet.
Speaker 1: Jack Valley.
Speaker 4: If you're some Americans, if you're a philistine, right, okay.
Speaker 1: So by all accounts, a book that is about.
Speaker 2: UFO pilots potentially be in the fay would be right
up my alley.
Speaker 1: However, I did not like the book.
Speaker 4: Yeah, listen, I have to I have to go work
on my transmission right now.
Speaker 2: I think at least part of its generational, to be honest,
And while I know, you know, it's a different time,
different mentality, I don't care really, because you know, I
was raised by someone that was really progressive and was
you know, from the same generation, if not a little
bit older than him. And also I think it's kind
of and I know again I can hear the booing,
but it's kind of like Star Wars for me, I
didn't see it as a kid.
Speaker 1: I when I.
Speaker 2: Finally watched it, which was only a few years ago,
I'm like, this has crappy graphics in the plot full
of holes because I didn't have like I didn't see
it when it was new, when the graphics were like
advanced for the time or special effects, I should say.
And I don't have like any like childhood fondness for it.
But I'm hoping maybe the two of you can kind
of reel me back.
Speaker 4: But well, if I don't fix that transmission, I'm not
going anywhere.
Speaker 3: And you'd be more specific about what you want to
particulated great to join.
Speaker 2: So the stories in it were good. There's a couple
of my favorite stories ever in it.
Speaker 1: I feel like he made a lot of.
Speaker 2: Assumptions that he expects people to just accept because he's
an expert. It was a little bit he go forward,
but I maybe, like so I've been trying to like
justify it in my brain and like soften it for myself.
But I think maybe probably at the time he was
and there is I don't disagree with his assumptions.
Speaker 1: Usually I just feel like it's.
Speaker 2: It's it's not the best presenting research to not present
the reasonings behind your assumptions.
Speaker 1: Knowing a little bit more about some of.
Speaker 2: These stories, I understood where he was coming from, but
he doesn't explain that in there. And another thing I
didn't like is he was very eurocentric.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you gotta watch those eurocentric types, right, I'm
on the lookout every day for those guys.
Speaker 2: He did he did, I think briefly mentioned Native American story,
but there are so many other stories throughout the world.
There's a ton from Africa, a ton from the Philippines
that he could have used, and it makes it more compelling,
more interesting when you show it's all around the world
throughout time.
Speaker 1: And then the last thing that.
Speaker 2: I don't really say it is the reason I didn't
like it. But he cites his sources, which is great.
But then I looked into some the sources and I
it's it's not that I think he was lying, it's
just that I can't back it up because some of
the sources no longer exist, Like one of them was
a magazine from I believe it was six I want
to say sixty five, and I'm not sure if that's right,
which I just can't find. But like I'm thinking, like,
is this a magazine like the fourteen Times or what
kind of magazine was this? Like he just it's it
was a bit weird to see a magazine listed, I.
Speaker 1: Suppose, but I did. I did like that he had
his sources in there.
Speaker 3: It is always the rest, of course of you, because
there's lots of sources, but I'm not no one's able
to find them. But it's not what it's used to you, unfortunately,
if you think it was more than perhaps it was
a lot of assumed pre knowledge of the topic before
reading it. It wasn't the beginner's butuy.
Speaker 1: Say, yeah, it's definitely.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you could pick it up not
knowing anything and enjoy it if you don't think about.
Speaker 1: It too hard.
Speaker 5: I thought about it very hard, Susie, and I enjoyed it.
Just so you know, now I have I have some
rebuttals here. He started out as a very nuts and
bolt skuy his first two books that.
Speaker 4: Challenge to science and an enemy of phenomenon.
Speaker 5: He was he was looking at it as you know,
et and trying to look at it very very logically,
and then he admits when he writes going he says, look,
this is not a scientific book, but he is like
one of these guys that keeps hitting the brick wall
when they try to put these things in the physical.
So and and also his his focus was more in
the Celtic realm uh he wasn't he wasn't I don't
think interested in going.
Speaker 4: He could have gone.
Speaker 5: Everywhere all over the world, but he it was more
your centric I think on purpose. So uh you know,
I think that uh uh. And and also his uh
uh that this was one as as everybody here knows.
Uh I you know then named John Keel ring a Bell. Okay, well,
the the the the two books that just completely changed
my thinking was first Operation Trojan Horse by Keel and
then shortly followed up by Magonia Passport to Magonia. And
I it just it just changed everything for me. And
so I I don't I don't agree with your your criticisms.
I think that uh uh he uh he started out
with uh with maybe the more eurocentric view, which which
is is great because you know, if you look at
at Celtic folklore and so forth, and modern day some
modern day UFO experiences, the patterns are are phenomenal. I
mean with with missing time and and the way that
some of these entities looked and so forth.
Speaker 4: So I disagree with your.
Speaker 5: Initial I'm not going to say diatribe because it was
not a diatribe. It was a very well reasoned it
was a very well reasoned diatribe.
Speaker 4: Let's port of that one.
Speaker 2: And so my criticians criticism is kind of a catch
twenty two because I liked that there were varied stories,
like there is a lot of stories, but at the
same time, I feel like he could have gone into
more depth on some of them and you know, analyze
them a.
Speaker 1: Little bit further. But then it would have been like
like a ten volume.
Speaker 4: Well staking of a ten volume set.
Speaker 5: If you go to hear the trilogy he wrote about
twenty years later, the Dimensions, Revelations and Confrontations, he he
revisits some of the mcgonia's stuff because at that time
mcgonia had been out of print for maybe a couple decades,
I don't know, But he does expand more. I think
he might appreciate more of his writings and his viewpoints
if you go through those books, and especially if you
get into Messengers of Deception, that sort of thing. I
mean to me, Valay is brilliant. He's almost as brilliant
as John Keel. Okay, I mean just just a hair,
just a hair different, But yeah, I was blown away
by Macgonian, So.
Speaker 3: There you go.
Speaker 2: I will say it is like a great source to
kind of use as a jumping off point to find
interesting stories and look deeper into them.
Speaker 4: And that's what he did in that trilogy, also one
of them.
Speaker 3: It was probably one of the first books that looked
at the whole world he's flown from that respective had
been as you said, his earlier works of predominant nuts
and bolts uphones. At the time, most books were nuts
about UFOs. There was nothing, It wasn't a lot around
that approached it this subject this way. So it was
kind of discovering in the darker bitual because there was
no kind of ways had been done before. And I
get the idea something he was looking for Lots and
lots of stories that are many Europeans, you say, of
examples of high strangers, very weird occurrences that don't fit
the usual windows. And you suppose you have to rely
on what texts are available to access at the time
when he wrote it. Before being a European mean from France.
Of course, he had a lot of access to French material,
to European material, to English language material, which would have
covered obviously Europe and the English speaking countries at the
areas of Prince. He was writing for an English speaking audience,
so it was probably going to be focused on all
of those European areas. But yeah, you could have written
a multi volume edition that were covering stories and other
parts of the world. I'm kind of in the middleized,
but I think it's a good book. It does have
its flaws nothing, because he's right, it does kind of
blow by a little bit because it's hitting this one's.
Speaker 5: Men. There is a sequel that he wrote with Chris
Aubeck as well, so they dealt more into that. So
and again, when you when you read Lay as a whole, uh,
you know, it's it's it's pure genius. And the one
of the most fascinating things that I read are his
uh Forbidden Signs series. You know, he covers the decades
of the sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties, and I think.
Speaker 4: You go to the next one anyway, I wait to breathlessly.
Speaker 5: For the next one because he he goes through his uh,
his thinking process and the and the people he's met
a lot of the way, and and some of the
comments he makes about certain individuals in the UFO field
are quite amusing. But he talks about the episode with
with his friend j L and heinig with the uh
the swamp gas fiasco, and then uh, he gets into
the Morrow mystery, which we've talked about before, the two
guys with the lead masks, and uh, it's just it
just endlessly faster.
Speaker 4: So I would I would definitely keep pursuing.
Speaker 5: Jacques Filat and uh, maybe maybe reread Passport to Magonia
and you the Light may dawn Susie, and you may
have a little different.
Speaker 2: Well, it sounds like that book is kind of what
I'm looking for, Like I want him to explain his
thought process. I don't just want to like hear a
story and hear his assumptions, like how did you get
from A to B? There is kind of what I
wanted a little bit more of.
Speaker 3: There's the logical us of the argument. You mean, the
title itself, the first stop read the Pastport to Magnolia.
I thought, that's very strange. Talk abound and what's make
of the talk itself. I mean, it's an interesting choice.
You know.
Speaker 5: John Keel used to say that, uh, that Jacques fil
A would uh was inspired by his It was like
Jacque was kind of rewriting some of his stuff, because
early on Lay was very nuts and bolts, and then
all of a sudden he was a little more Killian
in some RECEI but uh, that was always quite amusing.
Speaker 2: Well, a lot of people are a little bit more
a Killian after they read some Keel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so.
Speaker 4: It's sort of like a chink in your blood. You know,
there's no snow cure for the snow.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: What's the word. I want any biotics to get rid
of it.
Speaker 3: I've got confess I haven't readly for quite some time.
I've been in other things which pree mediate for the show.
But it does seem like a sudden kind of gear change,
change of thinking, change of direction from his previous works
to what's in again? Do you know why he's had
this sort of change is in the book? Explain why
this change of thinking about the source of these awflomena?
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't recall him explaining that at.
Speaker 1: All, So maybe we do have Keel to thank for.
Speaker 3: That, and that's where where it comes from.
Speaker 5: Well, I have a room full of photographs of Keel
with candles with you know, all the time.
Speaker 4: So uh, you know, and not really not really.
Speaker 3: I just thought, did you think that was influence made
changes thinking?
Speaker 5: Then?
Speaker 3: What was the reason that change of thinking? Do you
think you know I did.
Speaker 4: With the lay?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, why he changes?
Speaker 5: But I don't know, he just he just just kind
of it was I think it was like so many
so many me Well for me too, I was a
very happy each guy. And uh, I didn't didn't want
to hear anything else about the weird stuff, you know.
And but you know, you if you're exposed enough to
the if you're if you're listening to the experiencer and
you're reading the the the history of the what's happened
and what people have experienced, you you know, you either
come to think a little bit differently or you just
keep ignoring it, you know. Yea, And if you keep
ignoring it, you're not much of a Not that I'm
a scientist, but you know, you try to be a
clear thinker. You trying to entertain new ideas that are
presented to you that it seemed to have some validity,
and so I think maybe that that was it, you know,
I mean he remembered in early in uh.
Speaker 4: I don't know it was if he mentions in Agonia.
Speaker 5: Or another book, but he was that they were he
was with some scientists somewhere. They were observing phenomena uh
on some on a radar or some kind of screen
or whatever, and there's something that didn't fit. So the
the the scientist just destroyed it. He didn't want to
deal with it. And then I wish I could remember
the specific details. But that's that's one of the things
that triggered of Valay into uh you know, took to
look into some of this stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to his credit, I'm not a Valat hater.
Just for their record, Oh that's.
Speaker 4: That's a really I didn't want to work on my transmission.
Speaker 2: Anyway, because I love when somebody can change their mind
when presented with new evidence. And I do think that
you know, he probably as he's doing more research, talking
to more experiencers, he's making connections and you know, eventually
he's like, oh that you know, that reminds me of
that story I heard as kid from folklore, and he
probably started putting that together from there. I mean, when
I first started looking into Puck Wedgies, I was an atheist,
didn't believe in ghosts, didn't I didn't not believe in UFOs.
Speaker 1: I just didn't care. They weren't weren't interesting.
Speaker 2: And then you know, I started reading the eyewitness accounts
and that started to kind of intrigue me, and I got,
you know, more into it, and I started seeing like
these similarities and things I couldn't you know.
Speaker 1: A lotly explain.
Speaker 2: And then you know, from there started you know, seeing
the connections like Puck Wedgy sightings with orbs and bigfoot sightings,
and then okay, where there are other places with orb sightings,
maybe I can find some puck Wedges there. And then
you look, and you know, you end up in you know,
looking into Mothman from Puckwages eventually, right, So you know,
it's like unraveling a sweater when you start looking into phenomena.
Speaker 1: Sometimes, of course, we'll go ahead.
Speaker 5: He of course, he was the inspiration for the French
Scientist and Close Encounters with the Third Kind by Franz
Wat And it's interesting because Jacques Filet was trying to convince.
Speaker 4: Spielberg not to make it et. He wanted it to
make it more ambiguous something, because at that point time
he didn't think it was necessarily e g. Of course
he failed miserably, but you know, so.
Speaker 3: Straightforward, having this little literally little agreement or little of color.
They were often being kind of either come from the
mountain or they're coming from the spaceship.
Speaker 5: Great soundtrack, though better than Further by the Creek.
Speaker 3: Coincidence. Actually, this isn't true story. It was very recently.
I was watching a documentary There's Unsold Mystery Programs that
was the UF of event on and I think it
was to watch it again, so I just perfect to
see from the TV guide on the TV C if
it's actually on, And it was actually on that movement
on Channel four in the UK. That is a weird
coincidence after how you're thinking about it actually on TV.
But yeah, it's very cult. That is who the character
is based upon.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was just put it on the side.
Speaker 5: I was very disappointed and closing Cameras of the Third
Kind it was so uneven. Could have been such a
great film, but they went crazy with this building them
out and thing that they just focused way too much
on that, and there are elements of the lake.
Speaker 3: But I'd agree that the first sort of if you
see is react film the first act with the UFO
phenomenous first hat to happen. That's quite chilling, quite spooky.
That's pretty good, and it does kind of descend into
this like world. There's very slow paced third act, especially
with the UFO arriving and all the scenes of that,
which it's like over's a good movie. Certainly, Yes, you
say that he is the references, the character is his
valet literally in the film, in the form of that friendship.
I always thought that it was a logical progression to
move into that kind of territory because we have different
kinds of phenomena that reported around the world, different forms
of strange strange to call it to just how can
a UFOs, the spaceships and other planets can't be ghosts phenomena,
you know, it's all that kind of stuff, and there's
no meeting of the two. It makes sense when you
think the vast, arranged and variety of these things, I
mean almost two UFO experiences are like you look at all
the hundreds of different shapes and forms of actual space
of UFOs. They're all the different kinds of suppose aliens,
and hundreds of them. It's like, well, can we all
be so different? Why a few reports of the same
creature being seen over an real apartment, as we could say,
But certainly the wide variety. The big question of are
these hundreds of different alien life ones all come to
Earth and going again or something else that's going on
is the high strangers, there's manifestation of extreme it's a
water terrestrial kind of area. Instead that we are talk
about these kinds of things that do take on certain forms,
that are here to different cultural ideas, and that to
me is what the way is really kind of expressing
these and the examples of these altnates appearing in a
certain way, in a certain form to the culture that
was identified or seeing them. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, as I said many times before, in the olden.
Speaker 5: Days, we had we had the coolest aliens, humanoids whatever
they were, you know, Kelly Hopkinsville, uh flat Woods, the
Cisco Grove aliens.
Speaker 4: And on and on, and then.
Speaker 5: You know, toward the end of the seventies we had
close encounters and then we had that uh that cover.
Nobody will ever forget of Whitney Streemer's communion.
Speaker 4: And then and.
Speaker 5: Then the grays kind of well you used to be
able to find a gray once in a while, and uh,
but uh, and then they sort of took over. I
contend a lot of people think that, uh, Betting Barney
Hill were taken by grays. But if you look at
the illustrations, uh, they to me, they don't look like grays.
Speaker 4: A gray looks like a you know.
Speaker 5: When we you have a uh, human being and you
make a simplified version of them. Uh, that's what the
grays look like to me. Compared to the Betty and
Barney Hill aliens. It's almost like a like a toy,
like a blow up toy.
Speaker 4: Maybe, yeah, or to the actual whatever Betty and Barney
Hill actually experienced.
Speaker 2: And you have the same thing with little people sightings
throughout the world. They all have similar characteristics, similar behaviors
and traits, but they all look different in different areas,
and you know, you have ones that are you know,
more common. There's nothing like the grays with little people,
but you do kind of like, you know, see things
being more prevalent. But it's very similar to different alien sightings.
You know, you have the Nordics and the Grays and
then the one offs. It's the same thing with little
people as well, which you could throw in the fay
bucket for the argument here, but it's.
Speaker 1: It's very similar, just looked at through a different lens,
I think.
Speaker 3: I mean a good example is the coal from US
European underground dwellers that you look similar to, that kind
of small, aggressive looking creature. There's a similarity there. But
I think as you talked that before, back in the
sort of Victorian times and those times earlier, these things
came from the ground. They came underground, I came from hills,
came from the mountains. Now they come from the sky.
But it's almost like they've come from somewhere because the
appear in front of us. But are the bright light
spaceships that we see today or have they come from
underground dwellings that we would have seen in the past.
I mean a lot of folkow material which I have written about,
and a lot of these descriptions are to it about
hillside and forests, and those are the places these things
emerged from. So they kind of appear from different places
is modern times, so have the use of appear I
think it's just again it's a cultural thing. It's a change,
and it is say, highlight those the real oddities. It's
the it's almost like passable. Magori is almost like deconstruction,
the philosophical approach where you'd take apart what is known
and find the bits that don't fit the anomally to
the ideas, and when you're dealing with predominant nuts a
bolt spaceships are ideas of those times, and he's finding
those stories that just don't fit those theories at all.
The philodopically deconstructing the whole notion of UFOs and covering
this whole mass of strangeness that is historic but also
is of its time as well. So that's another I
find fascinating, this whole idea of just looking between the
lines to see what else is gone, what's being ignored almost.
I mean, the whole idea of nutsuports UFOs sounds crazy
to the average public anyway, So for us to say
well that's that, probably not it's even weird stuff going
on a bit too much, perhaps, Uh, you have to
put forward those ideas. In a sense, it's quite brave
because he was to be outside the moon.
Speaker 5: World see that's okay, John Keele, he uh, well, actually
I think it may have been AFRO, the Area of
Phenomenal Research Organization, the Lorenzos.
Speaker 4: That started talking about, you know, humanoid encounters.
Speaker 5: I know that, uh Donald Keiho, he didn't want to
talk about it. They were happy to talk about, uh,
the flying saucers chasing aircraft all day.
Speaker 4: Didn't want to hear about the guys, you know inside.
Speaker 5: And then John Keel around that time for True Magazine
wrote an article called never mind the saucer?
Speaker 4: Did you see the guys who were driving?
Speaker 5: And the the edit the uh, the publisher of True
brought on in one time to his office and he
shows them these six giant uh postal bags filled with
letters people that had had claim some kind of an encounter.
Speaker 4: So, man, it really triggered something.
Speaker 5: And I think that's around the time that Kiel was
thinking about window areas.
Speaker 4: You know, what, what are these?
Speaker 5: They seem to pop in and pop out, including cryptids.
They come in, scare the crap out of people, maybe lead,
some footprints, hair.
Speaker 4: Samples, and then they're gone.
Speaker 5: So there is there is something, whether we you know,
follow Keel's transmodification of energy or you know or or
whatever it seems like. Perhaps, but Susie was saying, perhaps
these things simply manifest differently, and I can't help but
think that. So Arthur Conan Doyle in the Coming of
the Fairy saying that the appearance of the fairies that
determined isn't determined largely by the person viewing them.
Speaker 4: And he said that a long time ago, and I
think he was right.
Speaker 3: I went off and such the example of marginal Chronicles
of Mars as I remember as a kidding. We had
quite an influence on the obviously, but that's the same idea.
The guy was the vicar was seeing Christ at the
back of the church, and the march was saying, stop
doing this to me. It hurts. I'm appearing how you
want me to appear. That's not my appearance, but I'm
getting it from you, and you're inforcing that upon me.
And they don't want to feel like this, And you know,
that's one of the things I think that when you
approach these kind of experiences throughout your normal, if you've
got an idea what you think you're supposed to be like,
then you might see the UFO as it's supposed to appear.
To be. But if you don't have any preconceptions of
what this is just weird, you know, you get the product.
Just the lighted normally has been the first kind of
experience that people have is just a strange light then
becomes something else has been a common initial experience of.
Speaker 1: Steve.
Speaker 2: Did Vallet in any of his other books get into
any of his theories behind what this phenomena was, where
it was coming from. Kil kind of did a lot
of work in trying to, like, you know, talk about
radio signals and the light spectrum and sound spectrum and
trying to explain it.
Speaker 1: Did will I ever get into that?
Speaker 5: Well, there is a but I just find it here
really quickly a brief, little little passage towards the end
of the book. He says, I won't read the whole thing,
but he says, there exists a natural phenomenon whose manifestations
order on both the physical and the mental.
Speaker 4: There is a medium in which human dreams can be implemented,
and this is the mechanism by which UFO events are generated,
needing no superior intelligence to trigger them. It goes on further.
So I don't know if that's it, you know, is
full I mean, that's that book was written back in
the sixties.
Speaker 5: So I don't know if you still that is the
full scope, but it sounds a lot like Carl Jung.
Speaker 4: It sounds a lot like Keel's co creation with whatever
this this energy or intelligence is. And so it may
be that.
Speaker 5: And then you know, we've got Albert Rosales his incredible database.
Speaker 4: You go through those fifteen books from one ad to
what twenty fifteen, and my god, we talk about a
variety of entities humanoids or beings or whatever they are.
So it suggests that.
Speaker 5: Unless this is an incredible grand central station for all
kinds of entities that just flow through here for some reason.
Speaker 4: I don't know why they'd want to flow through here.
Speaker 5: Maybe it's cheaper to go through the planet Earth in
some other places, I don't know, save a few pounds,
save a few bucks. So I that's the only thing
that comes to mind at the moment, is that you
seem to think there was something something to do with
I guess human consciousness. But as you know, even even
Keel backtrack a little bit later on he with the
et idea. He said, look, I the the my ultra
terrestrial idea of the or whatever is just he thinks
that there's more than one.
Speaker 4: Answer to these things, and I guess there it seems
like there has to be more than one answer to
these things, that one one answer doesn't fit all, you
know for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as we were talking, I'm kind of like realizing
maybe that's what left something to be.
Speaker 1: Desired for me with this book. What I liked about
fil is like.
Speaker 2: No one, no one's going to solve this, right, It's
just kind of like the nature of the phenomena is
it doesn't want to be solved. It seems like, but
Keil really tried. He gave you a lot to think about,
and even like when you put that book down, you
keep thinking right And Passport to Magonia didn't do the
same thing for me. It was just kind of like
a compilation of cool stories and that was the end.
Speaker 1: Like, once I finished it, I was done.
Speaker 4: Oh I'm so depressed. I'll get over it.
Speaker 3: Get The big part of that is that he was
one of the first of that kind of thing to
find that there's a highest strange I mean, you say
he's quoting from magazines because there's are sort of like
you need to find those of the stories and there
was nobody who sat down a really kind of compiled
and when you put me that's really what Agonia does
is a compilation of all these really old events that
just don't fit even the more normal paranormal understandings, you
know what I mean. He was going beyond that as well,
But it wasn't the last week now the chance because
we're working on the things, But it was there's all
those books that didn't strike me as being really quite
impressive for me first, and my first acquired it to be.
Speaker 5: I don't know, she vanished mysteriously. Maybe maybe she maybe
she's ashamed.
Speaker 4: Of all the horrible things she said about past coort.
Speaker 3: It's usually cut her off.
Speaker 5: But the one thing that I really really like, but
you know, you know, it's a good point, Andy, this
is this is an early book, back in the nineteen
sixties and even even later on. He I think when
he in an introduction to the follow up, he or
what did some interviews or whatever, He said that, you know,
some some mistakes.
Speaker 4: Were made in the first one that he would have
like to correct it.
Speaker 5: I don't know which which ones, but it was like,
you know, you do the sequel and you can straighten
some things out. One of the things I just absolutely
love about Ligonia is his I would have never known
about Walter Evans Wentz and the fairy faith in Celtic
Countries if it hadn't been for Jacques Fillet, that the
idea that this this theosophist, this irishman went through Ireland
in the early nineteen hundreds and talked to people about
their experiences like we do talking about people about their
bigfoot signing or real Pimo signing. And this wasn't just
you know, a whole Ebenezer from one hundred years ago
talking about the fairies.
Speaker 4: These are people that had what they believe, real experiences
in real time. And so yeah, really, and so I did.
I do have the book and I've read parts of it.
Speaker 5: But of course the fairy faith in Celtic Countries is
almost as big as a ASP, maybe not quite.
Speaker 4: The big No No book is as big as.
Speaker 1: It's half drying. So I did it too much credit?
Speaker 3: Fair enough.
Speaker 4: The thing I love about OASP is the charts. Man.
They've got these phenomenal charts. They may not mean anything.
It could be the ravings of a man man or
a genius. I don't know, but any book that has
charts in it like that is cool.
Speaker 3: In my book, one section that really stuck I have,
the one that I have read again at failure recently,
was when Vale's talking about the Secret Commonwealth Kirk's book.
Because I'm actually working on a new edition of that
particular book. It's got obviously the original book itself. There
came across an analysis of the text written about the
nineteen twenties, so it's it's sound of copyrights, very useful.
It will be part of the yes, because what I
found is this an analysis this guy has done of
the text, which was probably in the nineteen thirties, I
think it was the twenties, and it's the only time
I've been published. It's not been done again. I has
to find an early copy of it. So it's so
I'm actually working for another print of mine runs Troy Books.
I'm not working on this for them because they're doing
a lot of series of these older folklore books, so
hopefully about next year. So that's so. Of course I've
reread the section where they talks about this Cordworth material,
and Kirk's view is very developed, we say, for some
writing in the sixteen hundreds, it's very clearly developed in
his ideas that we're talking about an underground common wealth.
There's a whole host of these beings that are living there,
that are all part of this literally underground as well
as metaphorically hidden away underground that He's obviously a lot
of research himself at the time. So I've been working
on they say you should be out, hoping we'll probably
next year again Kee it worked on. But I'd say
it's a combination of the original text is very good
analysis which has not seeing the light of those it's
nineteen twenties, actually assume that that was an are again.
It's it's this idea of this otherness that was always there,
has always been with us, perhaps more so today we
tend to ignore even more because they always become very
maturistic based sort of the pointed world does anything that's real,
and as we know, people can begin to explore the
stranger stuff tend to get laughed at, even though we
know that the American government, for example, is this is
you ees is interesting stuff they actually are researching that
happened for a number of years, but still the average
person the street would would not but at the same
time tell stories of their own, of their own strange experiences.
You know, they might say, I don't believe in this stuff.
I have this happens, that happened to me. And often
when you talk to these people who don't believe in market,
we draw down with them. They're more afraid than anything else.
They don't want the idea of there being strange things
going around them all that they don't notice. They'd rather
not know about it rather pretend none of its. GMA
finds a psychological fascinating condition to take. It's like, well
it's real, deal with it. No, I don't want to
do no, no, no, no, I don't know's.
Speaker 5: It is still here with us, even though some modern
d UFO experiences are are very are almost carbon copies
of the with a few embellishments of some of the
o old encounters. Rosemary Ellen Guiley, who great researcher we
lost a few years ago. She was in I don't
know she was in Ireland or England, but she was
sitting down across Legon and she looked across and there
was this little man with a you know, sitting across
Legan with the hat and the beard and everything.
Speaker 4: They kind of looked at each other for a while,
and eventually he faded away.
Speaker 5: Uh you know, Uh Paul Devereaux, who writes all the
books on he talked about an experience he had. He
was there with his wife and he saw this this
little little being and it was kind of hard to
see him at first, because it's almost like he was
camouflaged with a sort of like looked a little bit
like bark, like part of a tree or whatever. I mean,
he kind of blended in and then again he just
kind of faded away.
Speaker 4: So people are still having the classic.
Speaker 5: Fade the fairy experiences today. I don't know what the
hell I do if, like, if it happened to me,
I might I might be I might be heading for
the next county line.
Speaker 3: I don't know happening you did. That's whole idea, want
you to have this experience. Just a very quick bridge
plug for second. There then the Parallem, the UK network,
the YouTube channel I Wrong, which has got our shows on.
I recently re uploaded our hours his long time ago
KTPS interview Roosevel and Guy. So that's actually on there
as a recent new addition. So I want to pop
along take you can listen to her talking about going
to the Gin. I think became a real kind of
focus for towards towards the end been these the Middle
East and Islamic, well they became Islam, that they predated Islam.
But the Gin spirits where the genie idea comes from. Again,
that's the same kind of creature, this kind of living
amongst us, particularly Gin. The either of these sort of
the fire being even in fire that are around. We
said that they're present all the time, which as you
don't notice and being, and she'd become quite interested in those.
That's what the end of the life they were. So
the interview there is on our and the Paranam UK
radio and a panel UK network, the YouTube Chantecle radio.
It's more than just that you want to have listened
to that if she's on there.
Speaker 2: So were there any of the stories that were either
particularly compelling towards or were there any that you were
like this hogwash, just throw the whole thing away.
Speaker 1: Anything to stick out to you either way?
Speaker 3: Well, for me it would be the Thing of Commonwealth
because it's quite in the sixties and fifty is a
pretty obscure book that actually sort of tracked it down
and it was publicly sixteen a long time ago. There
was nine Times edition, but it wasn't well known. It's
quite a short little book. So the Fact even found that,
and then I was quite impressed for that obously so.
Speaker 2: And I know I keep comparing him to Keel, but
there there was one story in there where, you know,
Keel in Mothman.
Speaker 1: Prophecies, talks about.
Speaker 2: Only men get symptoms of STDs after UFO sightings.
Speaker 1: And I said, that is a load of horse crap.
When I read that, I had the same experience reading this.
There was one story where married man was gone.
Speaker 2: I think it was six days and he uh, just disappeared,
and then he came home and said.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I was out playing my flute. I was
only gone half an hour.
Speaker 2: There were these weird little men that were there, but
I swear I was only gone half an hour. And
I think that the evidence he used to make it
compelling was that the man was clean shaven after six days.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, he shaved at his mistress's house before
he came home.
Speaker 3: Like, big deal, I can tell aliens.
Speaker 4: Well, I confess I've never had to use that excuse.
Speaker 3: Just popped my head. Punk watches. You you're the expert
in that particular. Are they and female or you? You
can't tell?
Speaker 2: So I have never heard of any that seemed to
not be male, for punk wedges specifically, but I have
heard of little people sightings. Actually what a woman I
just spoke to a few weeks ago said she had
seen about a dozen of them together, and you, there
were definitely some female and some male, But I've only
ever heard of as appearing to be male.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm. It seemed to be the majority of UFO
figures being cited or even asexual old men doesn't tend
to be a blue female aliens, which is.
Speaker 4: Interesting to imagine a feminine I don't really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the thing about punk weadges, they have the
big pot belly that everyone says like you can't tell
if they have pants on or not because the pot
belly hangs down too low, so they could be.
Speaker 5: Sexual pot bellies. They're male that pregnant polity.
Speaker 2: But I think my favorite story he talks about is
and Jeffries, which I think is perfect for both of
you because it has some parallels with the Shaver mystery.
Speaker 1: It's also I have a theory to explain it.
Speaker 2: Partially with psychology, but just you know, a quick reminder
and Jeffries this was it would would have been around
sixteen forty because she got thrown in prison around the
time of the English Civil War, so she had basically
become an indentured servant around the age of twelve.
Speaker 1: And she actually, by.
Speaker 2: Her account, she sought out the fae and she would
go into the woods. And I don't think he gets
into this much detail in passport, but there's a lot
of information about it out there. She there's there's different
accounts of how big they were, but in a lot
of the time she describes them as like fitting and
sitting in her hand, so very small and multiple of them, but.
Speaker 1: There was one main one.
Speaker 2: That she had a more more of a connection with.
But she had an intimate physical relationship with these beings
and they would give her this magical bread and eventually
she got healing powers. But she was through this, she
actually became more involved and passionate about the church at
the time, and I believe she was Catholic, but there
because of the time period, it was very there was
a lot of back and forth between Protestants and Catholics,
and she got herself in trouble and thrown in prison
at one point, and instead of having her sit in prison,
they actually took her to stay with I believe the
mayor or you know, the authority figure of the town
at that point, and without food. They weren't allowing her
to eat for whatever reason, but she did fine because
the little people were bringing her the bread, and at
one point she gave someone the bread I believe was
with her brother, who said it was the best bread
he'd ever have. I don't know how good bread was
around sixteen forty, but it could have been great.
Speaker 1: I don't know. But what I what it feels like
to me is that.
Speaker 2: She experienced some kind of abuse and this was kind
of a like psychological getaway for her. But the trauma
from whatever abuse she was going through maybe opened her
up to be able to tap into something because she
was very much known to be a healer and pretty successfully.
Because this was, you know, sixteen forty, she didn't get
like locked up for witchcraft and executed or anything.
Speaker 1: Right, she was.
Speaker 2: Still in the good graces of the church. Even though
she spoke openly about this, and she even talks about, well,
everyone in town loved me.
Speaker 1: It's I don't. It just seems weird, like the time.
Speaker 2: Period, and then she's getting the special treatment staying with
the mayor instead of in prison.
Speaker 1: I think that might have partially been because she was kind.
Speaker 2: Of like starting citing religious fights in the prison. And
she's a woman too, so you know, having a woman
in prison can be problematic.
Speaker 1: But I don't it's there. I think there was a
lot going on in her real life.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what's some of her experiences in a trance state
where she didn't leave her bed, but she had all
these imaginary experiences with the fairies.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if it wasn't for that very physical, tangible bread,
you could write it off as just you know, delusions
or dreams or what have you. But the bread and
the healing, there's something else going on there.
Speaker 5: I think there's another incident that Lay talks about Knock Ireland,
the UH where they see the uh it's raining and
they see this this light up above and the three
figures I think were the Virgin Mary, John the Baptist,
and I can't remember what the third one was. But
people were seeing these images there and they would go
up and one woman went to put her arms around Mary,
and it just went right through and the rain wasn't
touching the area it was.
Speaker 4: But the thing is the the if this was seen
in a different.
Speaker 5: Context, I mean, if they were if there were aliens,
you know, in the little silver suits, it would have
been it could have been the same type of phenomena
only viewed differently, but in this way in a very
religious context.
Speaker 4: And I always thought that was a fascinating experience.
Speaker 3: It was the kind of idea that it's maybe that
they present themselves in that form or that sent me
what you see it as. It's the kind of thing
your brain seeing something he doesn't understand to form into
something that makes sense. So you're seeing that religious figure
even though what is actually there it doesn't look at
all because a brain can't recomprehend it. I mean there
always up with power story the American Natives, and if
the Westerns first arrive, they've seen from the American Native
stories they have geared on the shore from nowhere because
the ships are out there, but they see nothing even
remotely like that. The brain couldn't even see it. It
was like almost deleted out. So if you've got this
kind of amorphous thing that you can't make sense of
your brain latches into what makes sense follow you. I mean,
it's it's a human psychological phenomena. You alder all the time.
You take anything that's got two dots on the line
and you see a face, even though it's just two
dots on the line. Our brains are geared to pattern recognition,
So of course they see If the religious, religiously minded
they see this thing, they start seeing as a religious figure,
bit version, Marria, Jesus, whoever, because that's the brain's geared
to see it. People seeing visions of Siva or or
Christian in Indian culture, because again they're geared to seeing
those kinds of things. That's how their minds are working.
So you can say that these things take on those forms,
or they actually don't. They stay at morphless blobs, but
our brains see them as That goes back to you
said before about the young Gin concept, that it's archetypal.
Their forms are in our subconscious and the things don't
even form into that imagery, but that we still see
them being like that, because that's our brains are geared
to work.
Speaker 5: You think, because the context of it was a a
Catholic belief system. Yeah, but but again you wonder what
generated this in the first place. Yes, you know, even
I mentioned Dubard whales many times, a double enigma by
Puman Halliday. They had all these bizarre more stuff going on.
But initially when they were having a caravan a trailer
by the by the sea, they were having some mild
poltergeist phenomena.
Speaker 4: They would look out the window, through the window only
at ten o'clock PM every night, they would see the
Virgin Mary.
Speaker 5: Would form all dressed in white with a rosary, and
eventually it would morph into the image of Jesus and
then fade away. Several hundred people's saws and uh, you know,
people that that aren't from a Catholic tradition would say, oh,
it's got to be something else, because you know.
Speaker 4: It's it's the Virgin Mary with the with the rosary
and so forth.
Speaker 5: Others from the Catholic tradition would say, well, yeah, this
is an actual manifestation of the Virgin Mary. But again,
you wonder what triggers these things. Is it that is
that Carl Young's collective unconscious bubbling up every once in
a while and just kind of leaking out, and and uh,
and uh and and uh manifesting some well.
Speaker 3: Yes, well yes and no in a sense that that
if the thing is actually present to us as a
phenomena before us, and then our brains are giving it
a form, but it's coming from that collective identity, the
idea the same before. Now they were all the Catholics
are seeing the Virgin Mary out of the window. If
he had a bunch of Hindus sitting out there, they
went to the Virgin Mary, they see that the woman.
Now Lutch me it's the female. Kind of a version
would be from Hindu bethold you with that kind of imagery,
but what they would see so they would get a
different image. But what's actually out there is neither the
Virgin Mary nor Lutchy. It's just amorphous thing that is
taken an identity because it's what we're projetting onto it.
But it doesn't even form that identity. It's just what's
in our heads.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I think the brother and sisters sheepherders in
the eighteen hundreds, I'm not sure. In France they saw
in kind of a ravine. There's sort of a sort
of like a ufo, sort of like an egg shaped object,
or some kind of a round glowing object, and when
the door opened or whatever they saw, the Virgin Mary
was in there, you know, all dressed in robes and
so forth. And I thought, Wow, Virgin Mary showing up
in a spaceship.
Speaker 4: That's pretty darn cool.
Speaker 3: I would sell you fit that kind of again. That
philemen that what you see is what you're you're not
even consciously expecting to see, but it is adhering to
what your belief system is.
Speaker 5: But sometimes even people like me, who can be dumber
than dirt when it comes to this stuff, well, all
of a sudden, I mean, people that are hard to
know skeptics will all of a sudden see some.
Speaker 4: Kind of a craft land in front of them, or
or have some kind of bizarre experience. And that's always
interesting that someone that is just it's not on the radar,
they don't believe it, and then all of a sudden, bam,
it's right in front of them.
Speaker 2: That's why the Bill Russo Puck sighting is one of
my favorites, because you know, when I talked to him,
I asked him, you know, have you had any other
experiences or you know, anyone else you know, He's like,
I'm not into this stuff at all.
Speaker 1: I just saw a weird thing once, was that? And
he really like he didn't know anything.
Speaker 2: About puckwags when he saw them, which made it more
interesting to me.
Speaker 1: It was you know, someone else that posited, Oh, I.
Speaker 2: Think that's what you saw, and he just went with
that because he didn't know anything else. So, but it
is weird, and uh, the story I believe it's in
Germany of the army that disappeared into a cloud.
Speaker 1: That all I talked about.
Speaker 2: You know, they're it's the same time period, they're from
the same place. Maybe they all have the same beliefs.
But what kind of beliefs me can disappear into a cloud?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Whatsoever? The mental gateways opened.
Speaker 4: Up later smissing four one one.
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, it's parallel to that. They do simply literally
to disappear and occasionally took them very strange spacis miles
away from where they've disappeared from. But I think just
get out a certain steward saying before. I think, with
our modern mindset, even if you don't believe in ufold
to or anything, you have been exposed to the idea.
It kind of not been it's been on TV, been
a newspaper or whatever. The idea is in the psychic
effective psyche. But if you look at the older Victorian
pre Victorian folkloric storage we're talking about before, they never
come from the spy. They've never come from spacehops, never
get from these lights, because there was no conception of that,
the idea of ailing to other planets, there was no
idea of that. So these things were never described like that.
They were described as they coming from the ground, from mountains,
from the woods. So you know there is this Even
if you're a skeptic non believer, you do have in
your mind an idea of things like UFOs because it's
in the general psyche, the modern psyche now, and it's
a kind of parallel with something I have a lot
of research into as well, which is sleep paralysis and
hypotic dreaming phenomena where people have these experiences of things
being in the room with them and they can't move,
won't go on a lot. So many times you'll get
boredly talking about it, but you get a certain image
comes into mind of what's in the room with you,
and it is definitely based on your belief systems. My
research show people were interested in the paranormal ghosts. Even
just horror films would have what called the Old Hag,
which pigure in the room sitting on their chest in
the UFOs or just starter or just space generally typically
the aliens and have abduction experiences instead. And even these
real experiences, I believe there were psychological experiences because those
who had no interest at all in either would see
things about family members. You know, it was definitely geared
to what you believed. And if you have a strange
aera like phenomena, you're going to think ufhone because it's
what you believe in these it's what's in the mental
in the psyche a general populist, where if it was
in the Victorian times, you wouldn't have think that for
a moment. When some of the stuff I've come across
directed these strange encounters. They sometimes appear from nowhere, much
like American enter in the ships. They're literally popping out
of nowhere. And so these figures in front of them
and Matt Gray's actually take a moment with the two
young men that were seen that were grace into children,
and we seem to magic a cow off a cliff
and back up again. Pretty bizarre. So there is that
kind of you can't if you don't have an idea
of where you think these things are coming from. It's
not in a psyche at all. They did shoal appear
from nowhere. But if you have been even slightly exposed
to anything like Star Trek Star Wars, you still have
a science fiction idea. Then you see a ufone.
Speaker 2: Steve, you have to stop believing that you don't experiences
things because maybe if you if you just tell yourself
you do, that's when you're gonna see a for UFO.
Speaker 4: Susie.
Speaker 5: It could be because I just might be a little slow,
you know when I was in grade school.
Speaker 4: Early in grade school, they thought I was a little slow,
and they were probably right, But you know, I got
I got faster later on.
Speaker 5: But one of the things that really fascinated me was
the mushrooms sprouting up around flying saucer landing areas. He
talks about, I think it's a necochia.
Speaker 4: In UH three.
Speaker 5: Hundred and ten miles south of Buenos Eras, a civilian
pilot was passing overhead. He sees this strange pattern on
the ground and so the he hurts the military, and
they go they check it out, and it's a place
where I'm alleged flying saucer had landed and there was
a circle of nine yards in diameter of eight white
giant mushrooms growing there, and I thought, holy cow. And
then they mentioned there was supposedly some other places, and
then I went to my archives.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 5: This is the old Skylook magazine which became the New
Fund Journal.
Speaker 4: And there was another incident. Let's see. It was the
two technicians from the National Highway Department, two inspectors there, uh,
what is it, qul to Xanta with their their jurisdiction
and some some shield.
Speaker 5: There was a school to buy and some children said
if they had been working on the other side of.
Speaker 4: The hill there, and they thought, what are they talking about?
Speaker 5: And it turned out there was supposed to be some
strange lights or whatever had come down. But so they
go over there and they find that there's there're actually
tripod marks, uh and burn marks, suggesting perhaps some kind
of landing, perhaps some kind of hopes, who knows.
Speaker 4: But then they found.
Speaker 5: Around the tripod marks were these mushrooms growing, and there
were about seven of them all together, and they were
about the heads of them were about eight inches in diameter,
and they're growing in this like it's a very kind
of a barren rocky area. I mean, there's no no
reason a mushroom should be growing there, And so I thought, wow,
is that weird? I mean, we always associate the little
people with the with fairy rings, and of course fairy
rings are oftentimes because of the It's just a natural phenomena,
because you know the way the well, I can't explain
it because I'm not very good explaining natural phenomenon But
it's not not supernatural.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 5: I just thought the venue of a few cases where
and supposedly in one of these cases they even could
if they if they came back after.
Speaker 4: A while, they could still see these things growing a
little bit. So what the heck mushroom growing near a
landing site and trying to figure that one out. Those
are two different sources.
Speaker 2: If mushrooms are related to ultra terrestrials at all, or
or they can be controlled by ultraterrestrials, we are screwed
because they're.
Speaker 1: Like every every inch of the ground almost here is
a micro hizal network.
Speaker 2: Because for every mushroom you see, there is like an
underground megacity of like fungus, basically my cilium.
Speaker 1: So like they're they're everywhere.
Speaker 2: So if we ever go too far and really tick
off the older terrestrials and they can control the mushrooms,
we're goners.
Speaker 5: As as much as I go to a village pizza
here in town which used to be Chinese restaurant, or
a famous mothman signing a tribute, I never order a mothman.
Speaker 4: Pizza because its wings are made out of mushrooms. Way
the hell away from that, certainly, cause.
Speaker 3: The mushrooms should definitely stay well away from sure, very nasty.
I think someone very eis affect.
Speaker 1: You might see a little man if you ate those.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't. I just cannot do it.
Speaker 4: Certain certain things I cannot consume.
Speaker 3: Well made mushroom. But yes, I can see the.
Speaker 1: Risk, all right.
Speaker 2: So I have to to say I do feel a
little bit less scrouchy about the book after talking to
you guys, which I knew I would good.
Speaker 3: If we were to score it out of ten, what
would you say?
Speaker 1: Four point five?
Speaker 3: Okay? Enough to quote another show Steve two Paige and
he fell off.
Speaker 4: Then I'm just not gonna sleep well then I.
Speaker 2: I think we just got video evidence for Mac that
your hair is real.
Speaker 5: Though, Oh good video evidence from Mac, Yeah, because he's
always saying you have a hair piece.
Speaker 2: But the way you just put your head down after
I said five proofs because it would have flown off
if you had.
Speaker 5: The horrible truth is they desperate, But I don't know
why I'm going to have time to do it.
Speaker 3: So well, I wish I had that problem with earlier.
I'd give it probably more more generous, sort of seven
to seven and a half, only because again, it was
one of the earliest ones I read of that kind
of I mean, it was kind of a bit pompous
and over that was my thinking already when I started
to discover people like Villain, and I'm not the one
to think like this, and I didn't know you guys
at that one obviously.
Speaker 2: Well we're back to my Star Wars comparison. So like
if you if Star Wars is one of the first
sci fi movies that you watch, real impressive, Probably it
was not the first.
Speaker 1: For me, and neither was this book. So you know,
I'm going to believe me for you know, ruining it
for me.
Speaker 3: I mean, I would compare to things on The Exorcist,
and those are sort when it first came out at
the top of that horrified vibe, but now it's pretty
tame competitor fort of mongl films. But yeah, it's your
perspective as if it is your first week experience of
that kind of stuff, like for me, then it is
a good, solid seven. I do get what you said.
I do agree that it does seem to be jump
all over the place. There's lots of not really following
through his stuff, lots of good examples, but the example
that I found fascinatingly yep, what you giving out of ten?
Speaker 5: Susie, The forest will be with you always. Now have
you seen The Empire Strikes Back?
Speaker 3: It was a superior film.
Speaker 4: It wasn't it was. That's the best of the original three.
Speaker 5: Ironically, the sequel, which has a cliffhanger at the end,
is the best. It is a superbly done film. You
should check out The Empire Strikes Back.
Speaker 1: Now make you guys more mad at me.
Speaker 2: The only bit of anything Star Wars related that I've
enjoyed was the Mandalorian, So.
Speaker 1: I just like the Baby Yoda that was it.
Speaker 3: Also, I am more of the Star Trek than Star
Wars Now which, Okay, Andy, which which Star Trek uh?
Speaker 4: The which which version? The original? The follow ups?
Speaker 3: The actually to be perfectness. My favorite, I get told
this is actually Voyager. I really enjoyed Voyager element to
the original starter, being out there on their own, with
much more so up to the technology of the time
in terms of the special effects. Yeah, I particularly enjoyed
the Voyager said, decideration and the movies. I'm not a
mad big femily the original because again, it's of its time.
It has aged particuly well in some episodes, but it's
an age thing. Maybe the series.
Speaker 4: Is the best they could take the rest of them.
I know that they've done a nice job on them.
Speaker 5: They could bury them in a shallow grave for all
I care, and that would be That would be fine.
Speaker 3: I think each one of its audience shows so. I mean,
there's a particular version called Wards Discovery, which I think
is dreadful. It's one of the topic a bit, but
one of the things always noticed with Star Wars is
about want and need, about feelings, Star treks a little
bit about success and abundance and things are good. Voyager
trust to be Star Wars it tends to be sort
of lots of licit things going on in the background.
Things are what they seem, and that's what Star Trek's about.
Start tanks about unity, about success, about caring for each other,
and Discovery doesn't fit that into kind of framework. And
I think on some mistake, complete off topic, I know,
but I just want to get that in there.
Speaker 4: Well, let me give you the best line of the
entire Star Wars series. Of course it's the original series. Here,
it gives the best line. Are you ready?
Speaker 5: I endeavoring man to construct a nemonic memory circuit using
stone knives and bear skins.
Speaker 4: Spock said that to uh.
Speaker 5: Edith Keeler in uh Sitney on the Edge Forever. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 3: Foster wrote that.
Speaker 5: Ellison and okay yea, And there was a huge pissy
match where where Ellison uh that they they had to
actually change it because it was getting too long and
too expensive. And the Dorothy Fontana, who just has nothing
to do with Passport, but Dorothy Fontana, who became kind
of a story editor. She was given the task to
rewrite some of it, and she made them swear to
not tell Hartland Alison that she did the rewriting. Because
I actually met him once. Oh, and I didn't. I
didn't say much anything to him. I was completely intimidated.
I knew his reputation, so I boy he was.
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna I've got one more thing to make
make you mad with Steve.
Speaker 4: Oh God, here here we go.
Speaker 2: The first time I saw an episode of the original,
I said, why is the guy from in Search Of
on this show.
Speaker 4: From in Search Of? And why are his ears pointed?
Do you remember the episode?
Speaker 2: Just just out of curiosity, I if I saw it again,
like I could recognize the planet they were on, probably.
Speaker 1: Unless they all look the same.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I was I was young. I must have
been like seven eight years old.
Speaker 1: Thing like that.
Speaker 4: Well, go to the.
Speaker 5: First season, toward the end, A City on the Edge
of Forever, John Dollar, Uh, it's it's just uh, it's
a very very well crafted episode with.
Speaker 3: John Collins of course as well. Yeah, come saying that
you're not gonna your start of ten yet the Passport
I'm sorry, what's your score out of ten for Passport Forgaria?
Speaker 4: Ten?
Speaker 5: It was ten because I had uh awakening happened with
the Trojan Horse and then uh, shortly after I read
this and I thought, you know, I thought, oh my god,
you know that this is making those connections between some
elements of uh. And of course it was mostly killed
the folkmore, but UH and Monernya for experiences, and it
was just it was it was sort of like, uh,
I don't know, Uh, I could get a little biblical here,
Paul on the Road to Enlightenment, you know, like, uh,
why why why are you persecuting me believing in terrestrials
all the time?
Speaker 4: You dummy? You know. So I had the I.
Speaker 2: Don't know what that brings our average to, but you know,
I think mine, my work could come up if.
Speaker 1: Maybe I read another Valet book.
Speaker 5: Oh you listen, Susie, Susie, you have to you have
to read Dimensions. It's a conference Dimensions, Confrontations and Revelations.
Speaker 4: You've got to read those three books.
Speaker 5: But also with your your view of the of the
Trickster and all the steaky stuff going on, you have
to read.
Speaker 4: Messengers of Deception also. It's and oh and listen, they're expensive,
but if you can ever get out enough check to
afford the Forbidden Science series. I don't know.
Speaker 5: If I'd start with the sixties, it's I would start
with the seventies. Seventies is probably more interesting, and then
the eighties and and then that's all fascinating.
Speaker 4: And so you know.
Speaker 3: Well, to answer the question that would give us an
average of seven out of ten, I think that's fair,
not too bad. Good thing.
Speaker 5: I'm here to get the average up. God, thank god
I didn't take the night off.
Speaker 4: That's all I can say.
Speaker 2: Definitely, well, I will cease on bringing us down and
we'll call it a night. Now that you guys have
you know, raised my hopes for Valat a little.
Speaker 4: Bit, a little bit, oh enough for our audience to
track it out down themselves and already it.
Speaker 3: Before that, we'll go out and try and have a past.
It is definitely worth reading. If you are listen to
this you were absolute had not some baltz Ufoe guy
still read it, it might change your mind.
Speaker 2: Great stories, if nothing else, very interesting because the.
Speaker 5: Thing is that people I actually talk to people at
the Michigan Upon Symposium in nineteen seventy six when I
was a pariah for that, you know, talking about tel
there were people when I would talk them about the
la and the folklore and so forth, they said, well,
you know, they probably were just aliens, but they viewed them.
Speaker 4: In a different context. They couldn't see clearly. What do
you mean they couldn't see their little red cap and
green tunic.
Speaker 1: Come on, buddy, how who are you to say?
Speaker 2: Who is the one that's seeing it clearly? M oh right,
because you know that's your that's your lens.
Speaker 1: You don't your line is true of all of us.
Speaker 3: That's the saying that would be true of all of us.
See it based on our beliefs and my own ideas,
we might have shared unconscious notion of what these things
are there see something similar? Yeah, I don't think they
have a set identity. I mean you read reports of
people groups people had UFO experiences, and they do often
describe something slightly different, because that's how our minds work.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 5: And and the and the caption for tonight under tonight's
show should be what's the guy doing on Star Trek?
Speaker 4: That should have been on what was it right that's.
Speaker 1: Doing on the show?
Speaker 5: I was little, Okay, you're still a little right in
a way as all.
Speaker 2: I've been the same height into fifth grade. Really, yeah,
I was the tall kid.
Speaker 5: And now I think I'm shrinking. So before long I'll
probably be about your hype.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm afraid you're probably right. You probably are shrinking.
Must be the very last time I got measured at
the hospital. For different reasons. According to the measurement, I
dropped below six foot. I've been six, I was fourteen,
and now was SA was five ft eleven and a half.
Well that's like, okay, five ft eleven and a half.
That's much sure than six foot was half an inch? Definitely, Oh,
I am aging. Obviously I am shrinking.
Speaker 4: That would be a great movie, Honey, I shrunk any mercer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the years shrunk, but the years of tailer than pressure.
Speaker 2: I've shrunk all right, before Andy shrinks so much he disappears,
let's say good night to everyone. Yeah, and thanks everyone
for watching, and well you will see you next time
in
Speaker 3: The see you, na,