WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.439 Imagine the place where you can escape for a day, 2 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:08.800 get immersed in a world of rooms, inspiration, and expertise, 3 00:00:09.359 --> 00:00:12.480 where you can lay in luxury accommodation. 4 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:19.359 And kids can fees from ninety five sets. Tickets are 5 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:19.800 free to. 6 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:25.079 Everyone and include all the attractions you've just imagined. 7 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:29.760 A day out at the kia Ikia the Wonderful every Day. 8 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:35.119 Oh hi, Hi, it's your weird coworker, the one who 9 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:38.759 brings in lemons from their tree but also sometimes microwaves 10 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:43.240 fish alley board for another episode of Ologies. Okay, so 11 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:46.560 guess I'm there. Ight Now, I'm using a big glob 12 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:49.240 of fat in nerves that I keep in a bone 13 00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:53.759 bowl behind my eyes to make noises to represent my thoughts, 14 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:56.960 and then I beam those grunts to a satellite using 15 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:01.159 invisible data transmission, and then your nerve fat glob is 16 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:04.359 like totally yeah, I get it. So my brain to 17 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:05.000 your brain. 18 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:06.040 It's magic. 19 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:09.280 People. So today we're gonna be speaking about speaking. I'm 20 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:12.120 pumped as heck about it, but first let's grunt about you. 21 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:14.680 So hello to all the new listeners who heard about 22 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:17.640 Ologies through my friends on Forever thirty five and Chris 23 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:22.519 Hardwick's ID tent t podcasts. Welcome to the dusty clubhouse 24 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:26.879 of oligites. Come on in. Thank you to everyone who's 25 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:29.799 out there in the world strutting about in wares from 26 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:32.719 ologiesmerch dot com, where you can go if you want 27 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:35.439 a twenty dollars science t shirt. A tip of the 28 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:39.280 cap to all of the patrons who submit questions for 29 00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:42.079 the podcast and support the podcast for as little as 30 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:45.719 twenty five cents an episode. I'm my Heart is that cheap? 31 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:48.040 Twenty five cents an episode gets you into that club. 32 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:51.079 And thanks to everyone who tosses some free love my 33 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:53.519 way just by tweeting or gramming about the podcast and 34 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:56.159 getting the word out, and for subscribing and rating on 35 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.400 iTunes and Stitcher, which is super important and helps so much, 36 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:02.400 and getting the show seen. Are you guys ready for this? 37 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:06.640 So this week Ologies number six on the iTunes Science charts, 38 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.439 like up there with like Invisibilia and Radio Lab and 39 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:14.919 Hidden Brain, all like respectable podcasts, ones that don't use 40 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:17.719 the F word about neuroscience or talk about duc dicks 41 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:20.479 as much. So thank you so much for the reviews. 42 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:22.520 I creep them all. I read every single one, and 43 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:25.039 to prove it each week I read one aloud. So 44 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:27.520 this week I'm going to say thanks Brooke bisone for 45 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:29.599 saying Ali, thanks so much for making a podcast that 46 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:32.800 makes scientists seem like rock stars. Your interviews are fun 47 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:35.759 and interesting and go into the science while still managing 48 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:39.759 to remain a little goofy. I think she's being generous 49 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:42.439 with that. But okay, let's get into this topic. So 50 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:48.199 intenational phonology, what do those sounds together even mean? So 51 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:52.000 it has nothing to do with international telecommunications. So phonology 52 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:54.479 is a branch of linguistics that deals with sounds. So 53 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:59.800 what are emotional word grunts sound like? And intenational means 54 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:02.360 that pitches we use to convey different things like ask 55 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.840 a question or be sarcastic. So this week we are 56 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:08.120 taking something that you do every day, which is talk 57 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:12.319 with all the hidden cues and meanings and signifiers, and 58 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:14.680 we're breaking it down a little bit. So how do 59 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:18.960 things like gender identity and racial background play a role 60 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:22.520 in how we signal and bond and communicate with other people? 61 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:27.080 It turns out it's fascinating and so complex. So this 62 00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:30.960 ologist has both a bachelor's and a master's in linguistics 63 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:35.000 and has studied the nuances of speech in everyone from 64 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:41.280 pop stars to professors and people in both politics and prisons, 65 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:44.520 which I feel like there's a Venn diagram. Those things 66 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:47.120 are just getting closer and closer together. She got a 67 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:53.360 PhD from NYU with a dissertation entitled Intonational Variation, Linguistic 68 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:57.680 Style and the Black Biracial Experience. She's now an assistant 69 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:00.360 professor of linguistics at Pomona College and we set a 70 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:02.400 date for me to come out to her office on campus. 71 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:04.639 It's about thirty five minutes away from where I live, 72 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:09.240 and because I am very smart and also responsible, I 73 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:11.240 gave myself an hour and a half to get there. 74 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:13.639 I started out driving, all was well, and then my 75 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:17.639 GPS just kept tacking on more minutes. It was horrifying. 76 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:19.439 Suddenly it was like, you're going to be four minutes late. 77 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:20.000 I was like shit. 78 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:21.560 I sent her a message. I was like I'm so sorry. 79 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:24.399 A few miles down the road, my GPS is like, nah, 80 00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:26.040 you gonna be fifteen minutes late. I was like what, 81 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:28.639 And then twenty minutes late, and I just kept sending 82 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:32.079 her emails from stop and go traffic, being like dude, 83 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:36.199 I don't like maybe there's like a dinosaur in the 84 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:40.319 road or a tanker truck exploded. Anyway, I hadn't realized 85 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:44.399 that the Friday evening Los Angeles traffic on Memorial Day 86 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:48.120 weekend would start before noon, so I was in the 87 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.639 car for over two hours to go thirty miles and 88 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:55.560 I was just sweating in so many places. So by 89 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:58.079 the time I arrived, I was one hour late. I 90 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:01.879 was the most mortified ever, and I was wishing I 91 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:04.800 had been fitted with a catheter for the drive. So 92 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:07.279 I started rolling tape in the car and just ran 93 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:09.480 into her office. I'm proud to report I went the 94 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:14.800 whole interview without having a potty accident. But this ologist 95 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.120 was as gracious as a human being could have been, 96 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:20.000 and in the forty five minutes we had to talk, 97 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:22.680 she gave me one of the most frank and enthralling 98 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.600 interviews I could just ever hope for. I had about 99 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:27.879 ten hours worth of questions to ask her. But I've 100 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:30.480 included more info on her work at the end of 101 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:33.800 this because we had limited time, and it's also up 102 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:36.480 on my website, so feel free to tenderly stalk her 103 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:40.120 to continue learning about this field. Also, if there's anything 104 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:43.279 language wise I can improve on. Feel free to reach 105 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:45.800 out to me. I really wanted to learn more about 106 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:48.240 this work because I knew nothing about it, and I 107 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:50.360 wanted to kind of open up the discussion and just 108 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:53.839 get people thinking about these experiences, both their own and others. 109 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:57.040 So in this episode, we cover the origins of our 110 00:05:57.079 --> 00:06:02.399 own voices through socialization, code switching, Obama's voice, Twitter grammar, 111 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:07.519 questions that linguistics hate getting, and how difficult it is 112 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:11.279 to change your identity to fit in. Also what not 113 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:14.199 to wear in Paris, and how I'm a shape shifting 114 00:06:14.199 --> 00:06:17.519 lizard member of the Illuminati. So tell your brain glob 115 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:21.240 to please listen up to the significant and brilliant word 116 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:45.879 machinations of international phonologist doctor Nicole Holiday. Oh god, this 117 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:46.600 is the nightmare. 118 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:49.560 All right. 119 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:52.959 I've arrived at the college. I'm an hour late. This 120 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:57.600 is my nightmare. Oh god. So everything is a red zone, 121 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:00.959 all right. I'm parking in some parking lot. It doesn't 122 00:07:00.959 --> 00:07:04.519 say I can't, so I'm doing it Friday afternoon and 123 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:08.519 holiday weekend. I have to pee so fucking bad. Two 124 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.800 hours in the car. I am over an hour late 125 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:16.680 to this interview. This doctor is like, hmmm, it's waiting 126 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:19.279 in her office for me on a holiday weekend. 127 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:20.279 I think was day. 128 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:25.160 Heavy breathing. 129 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:37.240 S, buildings empty, doctor holiday good. I'm already rolling. I'm 130 00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:38.279 like ready to go. 131 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:40.759 Why how are you good? 132 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:41.279 How are you? 133 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:44.319 I'm so sorry that you had such a traffic tram. 134 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:48.199 This is so embarrassing. I'm just. 135 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:51.759 I was like, I started running it in the car. 136 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:54.839 I was like, I'm gonna roll in there. Hi, I'm 137 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:56.079 so excited to talk. 138 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.600 I'm glad you made it. I'm sorry the traffic. 139 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.040 No, it's me. I should have left yesterday. I should 140 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:01.720 have left in camp. 141 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.000 We should have thought about the fact that it was Friday. 142 00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:05.120 We really idired it up. 143 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:06.920 Didn't even think about that or the holiday weekend. And 144 00:08:06.920 --> 00:08:10.399 I was like, oh my gosh. So first off, so 145 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:14.439 now you are a linguistics professor here, now, yes, I am. 146 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:17.399 Now you've been a linguistics professor here pretty recently. 147 00:08:17.480 --> 00:08:20.040 Right. This is my Actually I was a post doc 148 00:08:20.120 --> 00:08:22.040 for one year here and then I just finished my 149 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.399 first year as faculty, so like a baby professor. That's 150 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:27.360 so exciting. Yeah. 151 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:31.079 Now I understand that you started studying Spanish in high school, right, 152 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:32.759 Can you tell me a little bit about when you 153 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.080 started becoming so interested in language. 154 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:37.519 Yeah. So I was always a kid that was like 155 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:40.919 super interested in maps and geography. And then I think 156 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:43.039 when I was in fifth grade, we had like three 157 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:44.799 weeks of French or something, and I was like, this 158 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:46.519 is so cool. But like you know, in the US, 159 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:48.919 kids don't really learn second languages. Yeah, So it wasn't 160 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:51.360 until you know, I get to high school, basically eighth 161 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:53.960 grade when I started taking Spanish, and I had was 162 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.759 a kid that was good at school, but I wasn't 163 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:59.279 like super good at anything in particular. Until we started 164 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:01.399 doing Spanish. It was like, oh, this is the easiest 165 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.039 thing for me, Like this must be the thing. 166 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:06.080 Side note, I'm learning Spanish on dual lingo in case 167 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.879 anyone wants to be my friend on it. I'm not 168 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:16.039 very good at it, which means I cheated and made 169 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:17.120 the computer say this. 170 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:19.559 So when I went to college, I was like, I'm 171 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:21.360 just gonna study a bunch of languages. I'm gonna study 172 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:24.559 Spanish and Arabic and whatever. So I got into it, 173 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:27.120 and I was studying Arabic and it was harder than Spanish, 174 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:28.600 obviously for an English speaker. 175 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:32.039 Quick question, how much harder is Arabic than English? I 176 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:34.919 was curious from everything I just read about it. It 177 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:38.039 is hella fucking hard. So, though there are twenty eight 178 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:41.000 characters in the Arabic alphabet, the vowels are totally left 179 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:44.919 out or represented as these wee little dots and swishes 180 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:48.320 around the consonants. So, in one study, neuropsychologists found that 181 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:52.120 the left hemisphere of the brain, which handles like linear 182 00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:58.200 reasoning like grammar, tends to analyze these intricate little letter 183 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:02.720 freckles and swoops Arabic writing. So learning other languages with 184 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:05.440 simpler alphabets, like English or Hebrew, the left and the 185 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:09.080 right brain both help you decipher the meaning and the emphasis. 186 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.080 But in Arabic, even native speakers, the left brain kind 187 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:14.919 of rolls up its sleeves and is like, oh man, 188 00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:18.440 this shit is complex, I gotta analyze this. Also, Arabic 189 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:23.240 has a bunch of pronunciations that are unfamiliar to English speakers. 190 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:26.720 It's got some next level grammar, not to mention tons 191 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.639 of regional dialects. So if you can read or speak Arabic, 192 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:33.759 please accept my robust, cosmic high fives. That is life 193 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.039 in the fast lane. Linguistically, so Nicole was studying that 194 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:38.159 and then and. 195 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:41.159 Then somebody suggested my friend's dad suggested I should take 196 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:44.240 Introduction to Linguistics, thought I would like it, and I 197 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:45.960 took it, and I got to day one and I 198 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:47.840 was like, yeah, this is the thing. Like, it was 199 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:50.840 never the languages. It was like the theory beneath the 200 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:53.320 languages that I was interested in. But I didn't really 201 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:55.480 have a way to talk about that, because who learns 202 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:57.480 about linguistics in high school, right, Like almost no one, 203 00:10:57.679 --> 00:10:58.320 zero people. 204 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.200 Yeah, it's never it's not something that's thought of, even 205 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.200 though it's something that we do all day every day. 206 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:06.159 Yeah. And the way that we teach this kind of 207 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:09.159 anything allied, right is like we teach grammar, which everyone 208 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.039 hates because we teach it so poorly and it's so prescriptive. 209 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:15.360 There's so many rules and so many limitations, and so 210 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:18.600 people are just like, oh, sentence structure. I want to 211 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:21.200 run away from that. So even when people do hear 212 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:23.799 about linguistics, they're like, oh, you're just diagramming sentences. It 213 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:25.320 must be horrible. I'm like, no, I don't do that 214 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:26.960 at all. I'm actually horrible at that. 215 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.679 Now, tell me what about it? Did you love so much? 216 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:34.600 Is it because you love communication? Is it because you 217 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:37.720 love how thought is shaped by language? 218 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:40.240 Yeah? So I like the structure. So some one of 219 00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:44.360 my students last semester describe linguistics as like language plus math. 220 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:47.120 So there's a lot of there's a lot of like 221 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:49.879 procedure and theory and like ways that you go We 222 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:53.399 do problem sets right when we're teaching students, So there's 223 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:57.320 like a very orderly way about going about analyzing this 224 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:00.879 thing that doesn't necessarily seem really like rule to us. 225 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.200 Just as people who are walking around speaking you don't 226 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:04.960 think about like all of the things that you have 227 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:07.639 to know in your mind sort of cognitively to be 228 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:10.159 able to use your first or second language, I know, 229 00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:14.399 but also socially. Right, So we teach It's a subfield 230 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:17.360 of linguistics called pragmatics that I teach about, you know, 231 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.440 when I teach introductory level classes, and I will just 232 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:23.720 say things that strike the students as absurd. So I 233 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:25.279 told that, Like one of the examples is like what 234 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:27.240 happens if I walk in here and I'm like, Drake 235 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:29.519 is the greatest rapper of all time. It's like the 236 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:32.039 first thing I say in class today, like what? And 237 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:34.000 they laugh, right, And I said, why is it funny? 238 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.519 They're like, oh, it's like not appropriate. I'm like, but 239 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:39.080 why do you know? Like why, like you know all 240 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:40.679 these social things that make you know that this is 241 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:43.440 not like a thing that you can do right, right, 242 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:44.799 but nobody ever taught you that. 243 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:48.120 Do you ask them? Why? Do you ask them their 244 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:50.360 opinions on why was that not appropriate? Like what are 245 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:51.960 what are some of the responses that they. 246 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:53.960 Get, right, So they get well, it's not the theme 247 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.039 of the class, right, Okay, so they know what class 248 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:58.919 they're in. It's not what they would expect from me 249 00:12:59.120 --> 00:13:01.440 as a professor to come in and talk about hip hop. 250 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:04.600 I guess right. So all of these and also like 251 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:06.799 it's a formal setting, right, We're in a classroom, so 252 00:13:06.919 --> 00:13:09.399 it's like not the type of thing that you expect 253 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.600 here from a professor in a classroom. So that's why 254 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:14.360 it's comical, right, because all of these things are unexpected. 255 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:16.320 They expect me to come in and say, today, class, 256 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.000 we're going to do, you know, whatever they need. And 257 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:20.120 also it's weird because it's the first thing, like we 258 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:23.600 don't make statements apropos of nothing usually, and when we do, 259 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:26.000 we apologize like, oh sorry, I was just thinking about right, 260 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:27.399 we have to kind of couch. 261 00:13:27.159 --> 00:13:30.039 It, right, And then it does a discussion follow of 262 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:32.120 who the greatest rapper of all time really is? And 263 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:33.639 do you ever settle on that? 264 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:37.039 No? No, they have a lot of opinions. People used 265 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.759 to say Nas, but he's like on the Blacklist now, so. 266 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:43.600 It's really okay, it's not good. Okay, so perhaps not Nas. 267 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:45.440 Yeah, Okay, I had to look this up. 268 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:48.120 I was like, huh. So Nas was married to Calise, 269 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:51.639 a hip hop artist and a chef, two talents which 270 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:54.399 blended beautifully in one of her hits that we've all 271 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:56.720 sang despite our personal lactose intolerances. 272 00:13:57.399 --> 00:13:58.559 Shape brings all the voice. 273 00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:02.080 So Nas and Coe divorced in two thousand and nine, 274 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:04.279 but just a few months ago she divulged that they 275 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:10.240 had a terrible physically and mentally abusive relationship. So Na's 276 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:14.279 not good. So who is the greatest rapper? I was like, 277 00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:16.799 I gotta know what is the consensus? So I did 278 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:19.440 some digging and I got lost down a very deep 279 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:22.960 tunnel of opinion, an abyss of thoughts, and a lot 280 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:26.080 of people say Kendrick Lamar and then I found a 281 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:29.480 list on MSN of the top twenty rappers of all times. 282 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:31.440 I was like, I wonder what they say, just so 283 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:32.879 you know how much I love you all. It was 284 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:36.360 a click through article twenty slides to get to number 285 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.080 one with ads in between, but I still clicked all 286 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:42.200 the way through and it named NAS's number three, Biggie 287 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:45.240 Small's runner up and at the top. Tupac now Rickim 288 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:47.600 and jay Z were also in the top five, but 289 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:51.840 according to MTV's Top MC's in the Game, Nicki Minaj 290 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:54.559 by the way, only female rapper to ever appear on it. 291 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:58.480 Kanye and Drake frequently hover in first and second place 292 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.519 on that list, although some people, especially pusha Tea right Now, 293 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.679 may dispute Drake's ranking. Also one more thing. If you 294 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:09.399 love beautiful pastries and frosting calligraphy of hip hop lyrics, 295 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.480 I highly suggest following the Instagram account Drake on a 296 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.639 Cake by the Wonderful joy the Baker. I love it 297 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:19.480 so much. But any who's als best rapper? Big debate 298 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:22.919 not something you would expect your professor to profess straight 299 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:25.240 out of the gate before laying down the syllabus is 300 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:28.159 the point here when you really started to go down 301 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:30.519 the line and get your PhD in this, by the way, congratulation, 302 00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:33.519 thank you, Like how did you choose what your dissertation 303 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:34.159 subject was? 304 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:34.279 Like? 305 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:35.399 Essentially steer your boat. 306 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:38.519 I think I have an unusual story because I remember 307 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.080 the moment when I figured out my dissertation topic, and 308 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:42.759 it was when I was in college. I wasn't even 309 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:45.240 I think I had just decided on my linguistics major, 310 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:47.279 and I was. I grew up in Ohio, I was 311 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.440 undergrad at Ohio State, and I had been in Peru 312 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:54.279 studying abroad. I was initially kind of interested in the 313 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.159 language rights of indigenous people in India and South America, 314 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:58.960 and I do some research on that too, like Peru 315 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:02.480 and Bolivia. So i'd come back. But I started to 316 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:04.519 have all these thoughts about like language rights in the 317 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:07.399 United States, right, like who gets discriminated against right, and 318 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.519 particularly like being black, thinking about the ways in which 319 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.240 that kind of contributes to racism. So I came back 320 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:15.399 and I wanted to This was two thousand and eight, 321 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:17.799 and I wanted to volunteer in the Obama campaign. So 322 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.120 I walked into the Obama field office and they told 323 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:21.639 me to like sit down, and some guy was going 324 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:23.919 to come talk to me. So I'm watching this guy 325 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:26.720 who reads to me is by Rachel, which he was 326 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.320 right like me too, and he's on the phone, presumably 327 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:33.120 with some you know, wealthy donor, presumably like a white guy. 328 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:35.559 He's like, excuse me, sorry, like we really need you. 329 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:39.639 Obama really could use your support, and the senator is 330 00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:42.279 counting on folks like you to contribute rate this very 331 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:44.960 formal kind of register, and I guess the guy gave 332 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.440 him money so he hung up. Five seconds later, like 333 00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.320 a young black guy teenager comes in and he's like 334 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:52.399 what up, dog Like, yeah, yeah, Obama, you know, he 335 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.120 could really use your support. We're looking for volunteers to 336 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:57.879 go knock out some doors. And I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, 337 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:03.399 whoa whoa. And I said, somebody has to know about this, 338 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.079 like there has I need to read about it, like 339 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:07.720 because it just was so clear to me. 340 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:10.079 Right, what a moment. And also in terms of the 341 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:13.079 Obama campaign, I think a lot of people observe that 342 00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:15.400 Obama is really deaf with that as well. Right, does 343 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:16.440 that click for you as well? 344 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:18.839 Yeah? And I have maybe not exactly at that point. 345 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:22.240 But I have a few papers about Obama because Obama 346 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:24.000 is also one of my research interests. 347 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:28.039 So I'm just casually in a hotel room perusing doctor 348 00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:31.559 Nicole Holidays one hundred and eighty five page PhD dissertation 349 00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:33.839 I found online. I was super tickled to see the 350 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.799 forty fourth president mentioned right in the opening paragraph. She 351 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:39.720 notes up top that Barack Obama is a masterful code 352 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:44.599 switcher between mainstream US English and African American language. Aar. 353 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:47.960 So some of doctor Holiday's other papers who they're great 354 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:54.319 influence of super segmental features on perceived ethnicity of American politicians. 355 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:57.960 Super a sigmental features, by the way, are things like loudness, pitch, 356 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:01.000 length of vowels, et cetera. So she also wrote a 357 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:05.960 paper examining Barack and Michelle Obama's rates of CSD and CSD. 358 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:08.119 Of course I look that up. No, I did not 359 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:10.680 know what it meant at first. It stands for coronal 360 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:14.720 stop deletion or leaving off the hard D or T 361 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:19.200 at the end of words like didn't or hard. Now, 362 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:22.119 if I were to attempt to give a rundown of 363 00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.880 phonological features of African American language, which Some scholars on 364 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:31.200 the subject have also called African American Vernacular English. This 365 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:36.000 episode would stretch like into next week. So Nicole's work 366 00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:40.319 involves changing the perceptions and fostering appreciation for a dialect 367 00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:43.400 of American English that has a super complex and very 368 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:46.960 specific set of grammatical rules as well as a bunch 369 00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:51.359 of social and socio linguistic functions. There are so many 370 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:55.039 nuances to it that the seminal reference book on the 371 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:58.640 matter is called the Oxford Handbook of African American Language, 372 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:02.400 was published in twenty fifteen. It weighs in at a 373 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:06.519 hefty nine hundred and forty four pages. So the study 374 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:10.119 of the dialect isn't just about coronal stop deletion or 375 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:12.279 dropping a G at the end of a word. She 376 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:15.240 does a lot of research on code switching, and this 377 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:18.480 is a term that originated almost seventy years ago from 378 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:21.640 a study of Norwegian villages, and it means to switch 379 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:24.599 into different conversational tones depending on who you're speaking to 380 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.880 or to whom you're speaking, and it applies to so 381 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:32.519 many different cultures and languages. I hadn't heard of the 382 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:35.480 term until recently when my bilingual Latina friend Dalen told 383 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.279 me about it, and she was like, yeah, dude, of 384 00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:40.920 course this happens all the time. And while I'm in Detroit, 385 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:42.799 I met up with some Ologies listeners and I told 386 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.559 him I was working on this episode. And one listener, 387 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:47.720 Paul was raised in England but came to America during 388 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:49.960 grade school, and he says he switches back and forth 389 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.960 between a British accent when he talks to his parents 390 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:57.319 versus his American friends just boo Bob boop, and another ologite, 391 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.400 Ron grew up in Detroit and said, of course switches 392 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:02.200 tones if he's talking to his friends he grew up with, 393 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:06.640 or people in business settings. So it happens all the time, 394 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:11.000 but the pressure within ethnically diverse communities is particularly heavy. 395 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:15.079 So either you've never considered this before or you're like 396 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:20.160 duh dur, Yeah, this is daily life for me. 397 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:22.519 I am, you know, sort of very interested in this 398 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:25.240 idea of what it means to sound black, sort of 399 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:27.880 from the perspective of something that you can perform as 400 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:30.480 part of your identity, but also when people make that 401 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.079