Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to get back to the Tyler
Speaker 1: Robinson Day one preliminary hearing, and we're picking up exactly
Speaker 1: where we left off at two hours, seventeen minutes and
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds. Chad Grunnander Officer Bagley, Will you describe what
Speaker 1: it is that we're looking at here? Answer? Yeah. On
Speaker 1: top of the photo, you have the mountain range on
Speaker 1: the back that's going to be looking west. You have
Speaker 1: Utah Lake which is towards the top of it. As
Speaker 1: you come down towards the center. On the top, you've
Speaker 1: got a pond, which is the pond over at Utah
Speaker 1: Valley University. I've come down from that from where the
Speaker 1: water meets the red brick part more towards the center
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Flags. And just below that where
Speaker 1: you can see the grass and the white tent is
Speaker 1: where Charlie Kirk was sitting looking west. And we're on
Speaker 1: top of the lo See building. Question and is this
Speaker 1: depicting a particular corner of the loci rooftop Answer? Yes,
Speaker 1: it is. Question and this is the top rooftop? Answer yes,
Speaker 1: question is it the same level where we observe the
Speaker 1: atrium that's to the north. Answer the atrium's up just
Speaker 1: a little bit higher. So this is the top level
Speaker 1: of four. Question level four? Okay? And what area of
Speaker 1: the rooftop are we looking at here as far as
Speaker 1: the gravel? Answer southwest side of the Locie building. Question
Speaker 1: southwest side. Okay? Is there a line of sight down
Speaker 1: into the courtyard? Answer yes, there is? Question in that area? Okay.
Speaker 1: What else do you observe on this exhibit that significant
Speaker 1: to you? Officer? Answer, there are some disturbances in the
Speaker 1: gravel and around the area where the yellow marker is.
Speaker 1: There were some disturbances that caught my eye there. Question okay,
Speaker 1: And does this photograph do a justice? Answer? No? Question
Speaker 1: and how so? Answer you can't really see the impression
Speaker 1: I saw at the time when I was up there
Speaker 1: on that day, I saw a distinct impression in the
Speaker 1: and this does not show that. Question okay, So you
Speaker 1: said you could see more with the naked eye. Answer yes,
Speaker 1: Question okay, I'm going to refer to witness to state
Speaker 1: exhibit four on your monitor there and let me know
Speaker 1: when you can see that. Answer okay, I can see it.
Speaker 1: Question and do you recognize that exhibit. Answer, I do question,
Speaker 1: and what is that? Answer? This is a nighttime view
Speaker 1: of the same photo. This was just the last view
Speaker 1: looking west that I can see the disturbance in the gravel.
Speaker 1: Question and what tells you that this is the same
Speaker 1: photograph as the last one as Exhibit three two? Answer?
Speaker 1: You can see the hall of Flags that's directly almost
Speaker 1: on top of the photo. In the middle. You got
Speaker 1: the hall of flags. You can see the tent in
Speaker 1: the grass area, the direct line of sight with the
Speaker 1: Sorenson building, and I'm on top of the gravel of
Speaker 1: the low Ce building southwest side. Question is there also
Speaker 1: an LDS temple that's depicted in that photograph? Answer? There is.
Speaker 1: It's going to be on the top of the left
Speaker 1: of the photo. It's lit up. Okay, do you know
Speaker 1: who took this photo? Answer? I do question? And who
Speaker 1: took the photo? Answer Melissa Richards? Question? And who is
Speaker 1: Melissa Richards? Answer? She's the lead forensic for the State
Speaker 1: of Utah examiner. Question and how do you know that
Speaker 1: she took the photograph? Answer? I spoke to her. Question. Okay,
Speaker 1: Kathy Nester jumps in your honor. We just renew the
Speaker 1: objection to hearsay. That's in our standing objection. Judge graph
Speaker 1: Thank you, mister Grunader. Do you want to respond to
Speaker 1: the objection about hearsay? Answer? Yeah, Judge. Under rule eleven
Speaker 1: oh two, hearsay is admissible to establish the foundation four
Speaker 1: or or the authenticity of any exhibit that's found in
Speaker 1: eleven oh two sub b. Sub three. I would also
Speaker 1: point out for the Court that under rule eleven oh one,
Speaker 1: which is the applicability of the rules in sub section
Speaker 1: C one, the determination of questions of fact preliminary to
Speaker 1: admissibility of evidence. When it's determined under rule one oh four,
Speaker 1: which are preliminary questions, the rules of evidence do not apply.
Speaker 1: One O four speaks directly to providing Blaine foundation for
Speaker 1: an exhibit, So even at trial, hearsay is admissible to
Speaker 1: establish the foundation of an exhibit. I would also just
Speaker 1: point the court to State versus Griffin. This is the
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen Utah Supreme Court case. The citation is three
Speaker 1: eighty four Pacific third one eighty six, which stands for hearsay,
Speaker 1: evidence is admissible to establish the foundation of an exhibit
Speaker 1: even at trial. And we're at the preliminary hearing today Judge,
Speaker 1: Judge Graph, all right, anything further, Miss Nestor before I
Speaker 1: issue a ruling answer No, your honor, Judge Graph, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to overrule the objection to hearsay. I note
Speaker 1: the standing objection by defense. I also note Rule eleven
Speaker 1: oh two, and I also look to Article one, section
Speaker 1: twelve of the Utah Constitution, which states, nothing in this
Speaker 1: Constitution shall preclude the use of reliable hearsay evidence as
Speaker 1: the mind by statute or rule, in whole or in part,
Speaker 1: at any preliminary examination to determine probable cause, or at
Speaker 1: any pre trial proceeding with respect to release of defendant,
Speaker 1: if appropriate discovery is allowed as defined by statute or rule.
Speaker 1: For those reasons, I'm going to overrule the objection as
Speaker 1: it relates to reliable hearsay. In this instance, you may
Speaker 1: proceed back to the prosecution question, Officer Bagley, did you
Speaker 1: ask Miss Richards if this was a fair and accurate
Speaker 1: depiction of the scene on the Loci Building on the
Speaker 1: night of September tenth, twenty twenty five. Answer? Yes, question,
Speaker 1: and what did she tell you? Answer? She said yes. Question. Okay,
Speaker 1: your honor. The state offers State's exhibit number four. Miss
Speaker 1: Nestor jumps in, just object to relying on what Miss
Speaker 1: Richards told them in terms of creating foundation, and refer
Speaker 1: back to our standing objection prosecution. The state will submit it.
Speaker 1: Judge Graff, all right, Well, as I look at State
Speaker 1: Exhibit four, and again I'm just looking at it before me,
Speaker 1: I said it was fair and an accurate representation, there's
Speaker 1: a notation. I mean in previous exhibits there's a marker
Speaker 1: exhibit marker, and I see two, but it also appears
Speaker 1: to be other artifacts on this image that I haven't
Speaker 1: heard any testimony about. And so to that, Grunander jumps in.
Speaker 1: I will follow up, Judge Judge Graff, all right, Grunander,
Speaker 1: Officer Bagley, do you see any evidence tags in that exhibit?
Speaker 1: Answer yes, I do. Number two. Question a number two
Speaker 1: and that's yellow and black. Answer yes. Question do you
Speaker 1: see other evidence markers that are red in color? Answer?
Speaker 1: Yes to me, they're orange, but they're triangular shaped. Question okay,
Speaker 1: for those markers the evidence tag two as well as
Speaker 1: the orange or red markers present when you observe that
Speaker 1: scene that day? Answer no, question okay? Were they present however,
Speaker 1: when Miss Richards took this photograph. Answer yes, question, and
Speaker 1: she indicated to you that this is a fair and
Speaker 1: accurate representation of what she observed that night. Answer yes, question.
Speaker 1: State would move to admit exhibit number four. Judge, Judge Graf,
Speaker 1: Miss Nestor Kathy Nester objections, your honor, Judge Graff, thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Miss Nestor. I'm going to go ahead and
Speaker 1: overrule the objection, noting that the marker evidence marker, as
Speaker 1: well as the red or orange markers, I can't tell
Speaker 1: which color it is, it was not present originally. And
Speaker 1: with those included information, State's exhibit four is admitted into
Speaker 1: evidence and may be published. Question. Thank you. State would
Speaker 1: move to publish that. Judge Graf, all right, question, and
Speaker 1: I would ask for the witness to come down to
Speaker 1: explain the exhibit. Judge Graff, all right. Officer, if you'd
Speaker 1: like to step down, use the microphone, and as previously noted,
Speaker 1: describe when you're describing something on the image where it's
Speaker 1: located on the image for the benefit of our recording. Question, So, officer,
Speaker 1: will you describe for the court what it is that
Speaker 1: you're looking at? Answer? So, what I'm looking at is
Speaker 1: I'm on the top of the Locie building, which is
Speaker 1: where the gravel is on towards the bottom center. I'm
Speaker 1: looking west towards the tent, which is the upper center.
Speaker 1: That you got a white tent. You can see the
Speaker 1: grass down there in the amphitheater. You got the hall
Speaker 1: of flags. That's more towards the top center, and behind
Speaker 1: that you've got the I fifteen. But what I'm looking
Speaker 1: at is in the disturbance of the gravel is what
Speaker 1: I saw that day. Question okay, and can you describe
Speaker 1: for the record that disturbance? Answer to me? When I
Speaker 1: got up there and I could see the disturbance of gravel,
Speaker 1: to me, it looks like a sniper pad a person
Speaker 1: that's been laying in a prone position, and you've got
Speaker 1: markings of elbows, knees, and feet to where somebody was
Speaker 1: in line of sight of where Charlie's tent was. Question
Speaker 1: thank you, And if we could again, if we could
Speaker 1: publish state exhibit number two. You recognize that, right officer? Answer? Yes,
Speaker 1: I do. Question we're on the Loci rooftop. Did you
Speaker 1: observe this disturbance in the gravel? Can you point to that?
Speaker 1: Answer if you go to the center of the picture
Speaker 1: in the darker gray part of it on the left side,
Speaker 1: so the south side of the Lozi building. It would
Speaker 1: be right in line of sight of the Charlie Kirk
Speaker 1: tent that's straight in front of it on the southwest
Speaker 1: side of the roof. Question, thank you, you can take
Speaker 1: your seat. And finally, I would direct the witness's attention
Speaker 1: to state exhibit number five on the monitor. Let me
Speaker 1: know when that's there. Answer it is? Question is it there? Answer? Yes?
Speaker 1: Question do you recognize that exhibit? Answer? I do? Question
Speaker 1: and what is it? Answer? That's going to be a
Speaker 1: picture of the side profile of the last photo we
Speaker 1: looked at with some red or orange markers and a
Speaker 1: number two with also a tape that's on the top
Speaker 1: of the Loesi building. Question what was that tape that
Speaker 1: you said? Answer, there's a measuring tape. It looks like question, okay,
Speaker 1: are you able to tell which direction that photo is
Speaker 1: the photographer was facing? Answer? Yes, Question what direction is that?
Speaker 1: Answer it's facing south? Question this is a night time photograph?
Speaker 1: Correct answer yes. Question do you know who took the picture? Answer?
Speaker 1: I do? Question and who took the picture? Answer it
Speaker 1: was Melissa Roger or Richard's question, the same individual that
Speaker 1: you spoke about before. Answer yes, question, did you ask
Speaker 1: her whether this is a fair an accurate depiction of
Speaker 1: what she observed that night? Answer yes, question? And what
Speaker 1: did she say? Answer? She said it was question with
Speaker 1: respect to what you observed that day, apart from the
Speaker 1: evidence tag, the yellow tag as well as the orange
Speaker 1: or red markers, is this a fair an accurate depiction
Speaker 1: of what you observed? Answer? Yes, question what's different about
Speaker 1: what you observed as far as what's on the photograph
Speaker 1: the previous exhibit compared to this answer, you can see
Speaker 1: more of a length of an individual, so you can
Speaker 1: see that more of theirs two elbows, two knee areas,
Speaker 1: plus Also towards the far right of the photo is
Speaker 1: also a marker where somebody laid a gun down. Question okay, answer,
Speaker 1: it's like a prone position question, your honor. Pursuant to
Speaker 1: Rule eleven oh two, as well as other authority that's
Speaker 1: been cited today, the state offers State Exhibit five into evidence.
Speaker 1: Kathy Nester, your honor, we renew the same objections we
Speaker 1: made about Exhibit four. Judge Graf, thank you, given the
Speaker 1: foundation that has been laid and the witness has testified
Speaker 1: that this is a fairer and accurate representation of the scene,
Speaker 1: noting the tape as well as the markers. In that state,
Speaker 1: Exhibit five is admitted into evidence and may be published.
Speaker 1: Grunander State moves to publish Exhibit five. Judge Judge graf
Speaker 1: all Right, question before turning on what you did next
Speaker 1: on that day, taking you back to the daytime of
Speaker 1: September tenth, twenty twenty five, did you secure the rooftop
Speaker 1: of the Locie building that day? Answer? Yes, I did.
Speaker 1: Question and how did you do that? Answer? I put
Speaker 1: yellow crime scene tape around a portion so that nobody
Speaker 1: else would disturb the area. Question and when you say
Speaker 1: that area, what area are you talking about? Answer on
Speaker 1: talking about the roof where it was the southwest side
Speaker 1: of the roof where I found the disturbed gravel where
Speaker 1: it looked like somebody had been proned out in the
Speaker 1: line of sight of the tent somewhere there. Question did
Speaker 1: you secure the area as far as any entrance area
Speaker 1: up onto the roof with police tape? Answer? Yeah, so
Speaker 1: where that natural guardrail is. That was the other barrier
Speaker 1: where they were advised not to go any further from
Speaker 1: there other than police officers. All right, folks, we're going
Speaker 1: to wrap up right here, and then the next episode
Speaker 1: dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where
Speaker 1: we left off, and that's at two hours and thirty
Speaker 1: one minutes of Day number one. All the information that
Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.