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<v Speaker 1>What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. In

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<v Speaker 1>this episode, we're going to get back to the Tyler

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<v Speaker 1>Robinson Day one preliminary hearing, and we're picking up exactly

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<v Speaker 1>where we left off at two hours, seventeen minutes and

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen seconds. Chad Grunnander Officer Bagley, Will you describe what

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<v Speaker 1>it is that we're looking at here? Answer? Yeah. On

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<v Speaker 1>top of the photo, you have the mountain range on

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<v Speaker 1>the back that's going to be looking west. You have

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<v Speaker 1>Utah Lake which is towards the top of it. As

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<v Speaker 1>you come down towards the center. On the top, you've

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<v Speaker 1>got a pond, which is the pond over at Utah

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<v Speaker 1>Valley University. I've come down from that from where the

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<v Speaker 1>water meets the red brick part more towards the center

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<v Speaker 1>in the Hall of Flags. And just below that where

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<v Speaker 1>you can see the grass and the white tent is

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<v Speaker 1>where Charlie Kirk was sitting looking west. And we're on

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<v Speaker 1>top of the lo See building. Question and is this

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<v Speaker 1>depicting a particular corner of the loci rooftop Answer? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>it is. Question and this is the top rooftop? Answer yes,

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<v Speaker 1>question is it the same level where we observe the

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<v Speaker 1>atrium that's to the north. Answer the atrium's up just

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit higher. So this is the top level

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<v Speaker 1>of four. Question level four? Okay? And what area of

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<v Speaker 1>the rooftop are we looking at here as far as

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<v Speaker 1>the gravel? Answer southwest side of the Locie building. Question

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<v Speaker 1>southwest side. Okay? Is there a line of sight down

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<v Speaker 1>into the courtyard? Answer yes, there is? Question in that area? Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>What else do you observe on this exhibit that significant

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<v Speaker 1>to you? Officer? Answer, there are some disturbances in the

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<v Speaker 1>gravel and around the area where the yellow marker is.

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<v Speaker 1>There were some disturbances that caught my eye there. Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>And does this photograph do a justice? Answer? No? Question

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<v Speaker 1>and how so? Answer you can't really see the impression

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<v Speaker 1>I saw at the time when I was up there

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<v Speaker 1>on that day, I saw a distinct impression in the

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<v Speaker 1>and this does not show that. Question okay, So you

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<v Speaker 1>said you could see more with the naked eye. Answer yes,

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<v Speaker 1>Question okay, I'm going to refer to witness to state

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<v Speaker 1>exhibit four on your monitor there and let me know

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<v Speaker 1>when you can see that. Answer okay, I can see it.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and do you recognize that exhibit. Answer, I do question,

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<v Speaker 1>and what is that? Answer? This is a nighttime view

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<v Speaker 1>of the same photo. This was just the last view

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<v Speaker 1>looking west that I can see the disturbance in the gravel.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and what tells you that this is the same

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<v Speaker 1>photograph as the last one as Exhibit three two? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>You can see the hall of Flags that's directly almost

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<v Speaker 1>on top of the photo. In the middle. You got

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<v Speaker 1>the hall of flags. You can see the tent in

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<v Speaker 1>the grass area, the direct line of sight with the

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<v Speaker 1>Sorenson building, and I'm on top of the gravel of

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<v Speaker 1>the low Ce building southwest side. Question is there also

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<v Speaker 1>an LDS temple that's depicted in that photograph? Answer? There is.

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<v Speaker 1>It's going to be on the top of the left

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<v Speaker 1>of the photo. It's lit up. Okay, do you know

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<v Speaker 1>who took this photo? Answer? I do question? And who

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<v Speaker 1>took the photo? Answer Melissa Richards? Question? And who is

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<v Speaker 1>Melissa Richards? Answer? She's the lead forensic for the State

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<v Speaker 1>of Utah examiner. Question and how do you know that

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<v Speaker 1>she took the photograph? Answer? I spoke to her. Question. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>Kathy Nester jumps in your honor. We just renew the

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<v Speaker 1>objection to hearsay. That's in our standing objection. Judge graph

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, mister Grunader. Do you want to respond to

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<v Speaker 1>the objection about hearsay? Answer? Yeah, Judge. Under rule eleven

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<v Speaker 1>oh two, hearsay is admissible to establish the foundation four

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<v Speaker 1>or or the authenticity of any exhibit that's found in

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<v Speaker 1>eleven oh two sub b. Sub three. I would also

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<v Speaker 1>point out for the Court that under rule eleven oh one,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the applicability of the rules in sub section

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<v Speaker 1>C one, the determination of questions of fact preliminary to

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<v Speaker 1>admissibility of evidence. When it's determined under rule one oh four,

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<v Speaker 1>which are preliminary questions, the rules of evidence do not apply.

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<v Speaker 1>One O four speaks directly to providing Blaine foundation for

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<v Speaker 1>an exhibit, So even at trial, hearsay is admissible to

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<v Speaker 1>establish the foundation of an exhibit. I would also just

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<v Speaker 1>point the court to State versus Griffin. This is the

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<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen Utah Supreme Court case. The citation is three

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<v Speaker 1>eighty four Pacific third one eighty six, which stands for hearsay,

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<v Speaker 1>evidence is admissible to establish the foundation of an exhibit

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<v Speaker 1>even at trial. And we're at the preliminary hearing today Judge,

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Graph, all right, anything further, Miss Nestor before I

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<v Speaker 1>issue a ruling answer No, your honor, Judge Graph, all right,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to overrule the objection to hearsay. I note

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<v Speaker 1>the standing objection by defense. I also note Rule eleven

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<v Speaker 1>oh two, and I also look to Article one, section

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<v Speaker 1>twelve of the Utah Constitution, which states, nothing in this

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<v Speaker 1>Constitution shall preclude the use of reliable hearsay evidence as

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<v Speaker 1>the mind by statute or rule, in whole or in part,

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<v Speaker 1>at any preliminary examination to determine probable cause, or at

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<v Speaker 1>any pre trial proceeding with respect to release of defendant,

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<v Speaker 1>if appropriate discovery is allowed as defined by statute or rule.

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<v Speaker 1>For those reasons, I'm going to overrule the objection as

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<v Speaker 1>it relates to reliable hearsay. In this instance, you may

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<v Speaker 1>proceed back to the prosecution question, Officer Bagley, did you

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<v Speaker 1>ask Miss Richards if this was a fair and accurate

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<v Speaker 1>depiction of the scene on the Loci Building on the

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<v Speaker 1>night of September tenth, twenty twenty five. Answer? Yes, question,

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<v Speaker 1>and what did she tell you? Answer? She said yes. Question. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>your honor. The state offers State's exhibit number four. Miss

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<v Speaker 1>Nestor jumps in, just object to relying on what Miss

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<v Speaker 1>Richards told them in terms of creating foundation, and refer

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<v Speaker 1>back to our standing objection prosecution. The state will submit it.

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<v Speaker 1>Judge Graff, all right, Well, as I look at State

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<v Speaker 1>Exhibit four, and again I'm just looking at it before me,

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<v Speaker 1>I said it was fair and an accurate representation, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a notation. I mean in previous exhibits there's a marker

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<v Speaker 1>exhibit marker, and I see two, but it also appears

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<v Speaker 1>to be other artifacts on this image that I haven't

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<v Speaker 1>heard any testimony about. And so to that, Grunander jumps in.

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<v Speaker 1>I will follow up, Judge Judge Graff, all right, Grunander,

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<v Speaker 1>Officer Bagley, do you see any evidence tags in that exhibit?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer yes, I do. Number two. Question a number two

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<v Speaker 1>and that's yellow and black. Answer yes. Question do you

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<v Speaker 1>see other evidence markers that are red in color? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes to me, they're orange, but they're triangular shaped. Question okay,

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<v Speaker 1>for those markers the evidence tag two as well as

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<v Speaker 1>the orange or red markers present when you observe that

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<v Speaker 1>scene that day? Answer no, question okay? Were they present however,

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<v Speaker 1>when Miss Richards took this photograph. Answer yes, question, and

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<v Speaker 1>she indicated to you that this is a fair and

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<v Speaker 1>accurate representation of what she observed that night. Answer yes, question.

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<v Speaker 1>State would move to admit exhibit number four. Judge, Judge Graf,

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<v Speaker 1>Miss Nestor Kathy Nester objections, your honor, Judge Graff, thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Miss Nestor. I'm going to go ahead and

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<v Speaker 1>overrule the objection, noting that the marker evidence marker, as

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<v Speaker 1>well as the red or orange markers, I can't tell

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<v Speaker 1>which color it is, it was not present originally. And

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<v Speaker 1>with those included information, State's exhibit four is admitted into

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<v Speaker 1>evidence and may be published. Question. Thank you. State would

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<v Speaker 1>move to publish that. Judge Graf, all right, question, and

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<v Speaker 1>I would ask for the witness to come down to

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<v Speaker 1>explain the exhibit. Judge Graff, all right. Officer, if you'd

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<v Speaker 1>like to step down, use the microphone, and as previously noted,

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<v Speaker 1>describe when you're describing something on the image where it's

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<v Speaker 1>located on the image for the benefit of our recording. Question, So, officer,

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<v Speaker 1>will you describe for the court what it is that

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking at? Answer? So, what I'm looking at is

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<v Speaker 1>I'm on the top of the Locie building, which is

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<v Speaker 1>where the gravel is on towards the bottom center. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>looking west towards the tent, which is the upper center.

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<v Speaker 1>That you got a white tent. You can see the

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<v Speaker 1>grass down there in the amphitheater. You got the hall

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<v Speaker 1>of flags. That's more towards the top center, and behind

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<v Speaker 1>that you've got the I fifteen. But what I'm looking

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<v Speaker 1>at is in the disturbance of the gravel is what

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<v Speaker 1>I saw that day. Question okay, and can you describe

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<v Speaker 1>for the record that disturbance? Answer to me? When I

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<v Speaker 1>got up there and I could see the disturbance of gravel,

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<v Speaker 1>to me, it looks like a sniper pad a person

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<v Speaker 1>that's been laying in a prone position, and you've got

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<v Speaker 1>markings of elbows, knees, and feet to where somebody was

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<v Speaker 1>in line of sight of where Charlie's tent was. Question

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<v Speaker 1>thank you, And if we could again, if we could

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<v Speaker 1>publish state exhibit number two. You recognize that, right officer? Answer? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I do. Question we're on the Loci rooftop. Did you

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<v Speaker 1>observe this disturbance in the gravel? Can you point to that?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer if you go to the center of the picture

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<v Speaker 1>in the darker gray part of it on the left side,

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<v Speaker 1>so the south side of the Lozi building. It would

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<v Speaker 1>be right in line of sight of the Charlie Kirk

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<v Speaker 1>tent that's straight in front of it on the southwest

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<v Speaker 1>side of the roof. Question, thank you, you can take

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<v Speaker 1>your seat. And finally, I would direct the witness's attention

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<v Speaker 1>to state exhibit number five on the monitor. Let me

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<v Speaker 1>know when that's there. Answer it is? Question is it there? Answer? Yes?

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<v Speaker 1>Question do you recognize that exhibit? Answer? I do? Question

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<v Speaker 1>and what is it? Answer? That's going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>picture of the side profile of the last photo we

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<v Speaker 1>looked at with some red or orange markers and a

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<v Speaker 1>number two with also a tape that's on the top

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<v Speaker 1>of the Loesi building. Question what was that tape that

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<v Speaker 1>you said? Answer, there's a measuring tape. It looks like question, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>are you able to tell which direction that photo is

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<v Speaker 1>the photographer was facing? Answer? Yes, Question what direction is that?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer it's facing south? Question this is a night time photograph?

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<v Speaker 1>Correct answer yes. Question do you know who took the picture? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>I do? Question and who took the picture? Answer it

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<v Speaker 1>was Melissa Roger or Richard's question, the same individual that

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<v Speaker 1>you spoke about before. Answer yes, question, did you ask

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<v Speaker 1>her whether this is a fair an accurate depiction of

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<v Speaker 1>what she observed that night? Answer yes, question? And what

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<v Speaker 1>did she say? Answer? She said it was question with

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<v Speaker 1>respect to what you observed that day, apart from the

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<v Speaker 1>evidence tag, the yellow tag as well as the orange

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<v Speaker 1>or red markers, is this a fair an accurate depiction

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<v Speaker 1>of what you observed? Answer? Yes, question what's different about

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<v Speaker 1>what you observed as far as what's on the photograph

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<v Speaker 1>the previous exhibit compared to this answer, you can see

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<v Speaker 1>more of a length of an individual, so you can

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<v Speaker 1>see that more of theirs two elbows, two knee areas,

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<v Speaker 1>plus Also towards the far right of the photo is

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<v Speaker 1>also a marker where somebody laid a gun down. Question okay, answer,

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<v Speaker 1>it's like a prone position question, your honor. Pursuant to

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<v Speaker 1>Rule eleven oh two, as well as other authority that's

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<v Speaker 1>been cited today, the state offers State Exhibit five into evidence.

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<v Speaker 1>Kathy Nester, your honor, we renew the same objections we

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<v Speaker 1>made about Exhibit four. Judge Graf, thank you, given the

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<v Speaker 1>foundation that has been laid and the witness has testified

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<v Speaker 1>that this is a fairer and accurate representation of the scene,

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<v Speaker 1>noting the tape as well as the markers. In that state,

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<v Speaker 1>Exhibit five is admitted into evidence and may be published.

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<v Speaker 1>Grunander State moves to publish Exhibit five. Judge Judge graf

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<v Speaker 1>all Right, question before turning on what you did next

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<v Speaker 1>on that day, taking you back to the daytime of

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<v Speaker 1>September tenth, twenty twenty five, did you secure the rooftop

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<v Speaker 1>of the Locie building that day? Answer? Yes, I did.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and how did you do that? Answer? I put

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<v Speaker 1>yellow crime scene tape around a portion so that nobody

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<v Speaker 1>else would disturb the area. Question and when you say

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<v Speaker 1>that area, what area are you talking about? Answer on

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<v Speaker 1>talking about the roof where it was the southwest side

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<v Speaker 1>of the roof where I found the disturbed gravel where

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<v Speaker 1>it looked like somebody had been proned out in the

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<v Speaker 1>line of sight of the tent somewhere there. Question did

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<v Speaker 1>you secure the area as far as any entrance area

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<v Speaker 1>up onto the roof with police tape? Answer? Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>where that natural guardrail is. That was the other barrier

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<v Speaker 1>where they were advised not to go any further from

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<v Speaker 1>there other than police officers. All right, folks, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to wrap up right here, and then the next episode

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up where

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<v Speaker 1>we left off, and that's at two hours and thirty

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<v Speaker 1>one minutes of Day number one. All the information that

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<v Speaker 1>goes with this episode can be found in the description box.