WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:07.120 An important piece of theater premiered in Philadelphia. James Baldwin's 2 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:11.519 work is finally coming to life on the stage. We 3 00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:16.000 got to talk with two of the actors and then 4 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:21.000 we went and saw the performance. So here now is 5 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:27.519 our interview, followed by our talk about the show. 6 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:43.759 Enjoy. 7 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:50.719 Coming to you from the Dunion Table at East Arbury Lane. 8 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:55.320 Welcome to a very special Pride edition of Full Circle 9 00:00:55.679 --> 00:00:56.640 the podcast. 10 00:00:57.560 --> 00:00:59.359 I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr. 11 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:04.000 And I'm your Martha Mandrigal, and we have something really 12 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:07.799 special going on during Pride Month, incited, I know, to 13 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:13.840 Quintessant's theater world premiere adaptation of James Baldwin's groundbreaking novel 14 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:19.799 Giovanni's Room has been extended through June twenty ninth. It's 15 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:22.760 playing on stage at the Quintessant Theater at the Sedgewick. 16 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:26.879 And today we're going to talk to Midgneieth and Jada 17 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:31.920 von Reugersberg from the cast. Welcome to the Full Circle Table. 18 00:01:32.959 --> 00:01:38.239 Thank you for loving us. Look good. 19 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:42.760 That's a loaded question in it, well, right in this world, 20 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:47.519 in this it's a loaded question. But you're immersed in 21 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:51.560 something that I think is really important. James Baldwin, one 22 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:56.519 of my favorite queer writers ever. So much wit and 23 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:01.120 wisdom and grit, and I what time to revisit it 24 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:05.439 and be reminded of the stories he left behind. Yes, 25 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:06.560 how's it been? 26 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:10.560 It's been great. I mean, I think Midge and I 27 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:14.039 both actually get to eat. Correct me if I'm wrong. 28 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:20.039 My characters are droppers of wisdom in different ways. I 29 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:21.159 love that. Yeah. 30 00:02:21.599 --> 00:02:25.680 Yes, a lot of the structure of the play in 31 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:30.479 the way that it because the novel is all David's memory, 32 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:35.680 and so the structure of the adaptation really has a 33 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:41.280 lot of these voices and personalities that he encountered along 34 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:49.919 his journey re emerge in non non reality, but as 35 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:55.560 witnesses to what he's doing, as reminders to him and 36 00:02:56.039 --> 00:03:00.280 symbols of those lessons that they give him along the way. 37 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:08.120 Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, I love that. So, for those 38 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:12.280 of those in our audience who are not familiar, what 39 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:16.759 is the story of Giovanni's Room and who do each 40 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:18.639 of you portray in the story? 41 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:23.199 The story goes a little something like this. You know. 42 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:28.960 The spoiler alert is that nobody ends up very well. 43 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:34.120 It's kind of tragic in every dimension. But so there's 44 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:39.159 a young American named David, and he's kind of a 45 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:42.479 central character, but I would almost say he's in he's 46 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:50.120 the anti hero because he well you'll see, but he 47 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:54.639 is in Europe. He's on a journey to find himself. 48 00:03:56.039 --> 00:04:00.599 He's been in Paris about two years, and he considers 49 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:07.560 himself straight I think, and he's he's just asked his 50 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.800 girlfriend of two of I think about two years or 51 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.199 some amount of time that he's been in Paris. He 52 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:16.160 met this woman named Hella, and he asked her to 53 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:19.319 marry him before the action of the play starts. And 54 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:22.560 one of the mysteries that I don't really know the 55 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:27.279 answer to is she doesn't say yes. She says, I 56 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:29.839 have to think about it. I'm going to go to 57 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:34.920 Spain and think about it. While she's in Spain, David 58 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:41.279 has a little adventure at a bar called Guillomes and 59 00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:45.120 Guillom's Bar, where he's sort of I kind of am 60 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:48.680 the one. My character's name is Jacques. My character kind 61 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:51.319 of like ushers him in. Jack is an older gay 62 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:55.759 man and he he takes him to this bar that's 63 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:59.120 pretty much that's a gay bar, and at the bar 64 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:04.759 is the flag Princess pleaded by Midge and the bartender's 65 00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:10.240 name Giovanni, and Giovanni is an Italian man, and they 66 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:17.480 set they set eyes on each other, and everything stepped 67 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:24.680 off from there because he suddenly is deeply and profoundly falling, 68 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:30.759 founding himself falling Anni, And while still away, they spend 69 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:35.759 I think any number of weeks in bed together there 70 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:40.040 in love, and David is there, doesn't have a job, 71 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:43.439 so he's just there in this tiny apartment that they 72 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:46.279 end up sharing, and Giovanni only leaves, I think to 73 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:51.079 go to work, and they are having this beautiful affair. 74 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:56.399 But then through a series of letters, you learn that 75 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:01.720 he was going to come back, and the pressure is 76 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:08.839 on for Duvid to marry her because his father pressuring 77 00:06:08.920 --> 00:06:12.160 him to come back and start his real life in 78 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:16.160 this processed of what are you doing over the dream? 79 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:20.959 What are you doing finding it? And so that's where 80 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:26.399 the tragedy starts to happen because he sort of out 81 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:29.920 of this financial and obviously social pressure in the nineteen fifties, 82 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:33.199 he's like, maybe I can figure out a way Mary 83 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:37.720 Hella and to be with her, and he totally abandons Giovanni. 84 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:42.720 He does some bad things to Giovanni leaves him and 85 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:48.040 is with Hella without any wonder to Giovanni for a month, 86 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:54.879 and then they happened to me will Street, and everything 87 00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:58.480 goes bad from there and. 88 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:03.240 No one ends up happy high queer drawing. 89 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:09.199 Well right, and of the time, I mean, you know, 90 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.199 the book as I recall was written in fifty five 91 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:18.279 and published in fifty six, so you know, very typical. 92 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:20.199 Of the time. 93 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:24.920 You know, that time when anyone who could be closeted. 94 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:27.120 Was exactly exactly and it took a lot of break. 95 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:29.759 I mean, there were there have been examples through even 96 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:33.240 way before the fifties where people were kind of lived 97 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:38.360 out loud. But I would say the majority of people, 98 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:40.959 you know, there's a real fear of losing a job 99 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:45.240 or not. You know, okay, because that used to happen. 100 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:50.639 Regularly. And again, well some would have us go back there. 101 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:54.879 I have no intention, yeah, but you know, but it 102 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:59.639 was commonplace. So I'm okay with this being tragedy because 103 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.800 well a lot of it was. And you know, like 104 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:07.160 Dad saying time to grow up and leave all that behind, 105 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:14.199 it brings it rings just true. I'm also of a 106 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:17.720 certain age, and it's and you know this this stuff 107 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:21.040 rings true. I know when you said older gay man, 108 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:24.279 I'm like Jesus Christ, that's where we are. It's just 109 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:26.120 where we are, Like, yeah, okay. 110 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:30.680 You know what makes it like fel okay to be 111 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:34.639 a tragedy to me is that it's not a tragedy 112 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:39.399 because they're queer. It's not a tragedy because he is gay. 113 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:43.440 It is a tragedy because he refuses to acknowledge it. 114 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:49.399 And that refusal to admit to yourself who you are 115 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:55.000 and cutting yourself off from happiness is what ends up 116 00:08:56.480 --> 00:09:00.559 destroying your own life and all of these lives around you. 117 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:04.279 And at the end of the day, he will probably 118 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:11.240 be okay because he's he has the most going for 119 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:14.200 him going back to America or whatever he wants to do, 120 00:09:14.759 --> 00:09:17.360 and everybody in his path is the one that suffers 121 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:17.879 the most. 122 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:23.120 Yeah, there's there's there's a lot of letters throughout the show, 123 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:26.080 and the very last image of the show, which we 124 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:28.039 had to work on as a special for a movie 125 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:31.440 a long time, is that he he gets a final 126 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:38.360 letter from me from Jacques that he rips up and 127 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:44.279 he throws it away. But there's end and the and 128 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:49.519 the piece of letter blowback at him, which is a 129 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:53.840 sort of beautiful idea that you you can try to 130 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:59.399 destroy the evident, you can try to destroy what's happened, 131 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:02.559 and you can try to say I didn't I didn't 132 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:04.840 mess up anyone's life, I didn't lie to anyone. But 133 00:10:05.679 --> 00:10:07.080 truth is going to blow back to you. 134 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:09.559 Uh always does. 135 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:14.480 Yeah, Yeah. But I think part of what's so heartbreaking 136 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:21.639 and strange about what happens to David is that he 137 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:23.799 he ends up lying a lot, and you start seeing 138 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:28.559 through him more and more and more and and just 139 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.360 you start to see that those lies are destructive, and 140 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:35.279 him lying to other people, and him lying to all 141 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:37.000 of that treating up. 142 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:41.919 And sadly, that's a story that we've seen play out 143 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:46.159 in real life way too many times. People hold on 144 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:48.519 to the lie and eat you up inside and it 145 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:52.840 starts to extend out from inside of yourself and affects 146 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:57.679 everything around you and your whole life. Authenticity is the 147 00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:01.399 only healthy choice, but unfortunately it's not the available choice 148 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:02.200 for some. 149 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:06.879 People, and for some people's it was not encouraged in 150 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:11.399 our families how they were raised. It's a journey to 151 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.799 find how to speak authentically. 152 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:19.039 Which I always think about when people say, you know, 153 00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:21.679 hearkening back to the good old days talking about this 154 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:26.679 time period we think about like not even just queer people, 155 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:29.679 but like how everyone must have been walking around with 156 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:35.720 so much repression all the time, just like even like 157 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:40.639 your your cis had white folks, like because there's so 158 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:44.000 many constraints about what is a man, what is a woman, 159 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:48.799 and no one is those things like naturally, really I 160 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:53.000 don't believe. So it's like that's what we want. We 161 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:55.039 want to go back to this place of repression and 162 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:57.440 inauthenticity and lying to ourselves. 163 00:11:57.559 --> 00:12:01.399 Great, the people who want us to go back are 164 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:04.879 the ones that always worked out for mostly well, I 165 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:07.679 mean they're having the good old day. 166 00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:12.639 Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah. It's easy to be nostalgic because 167 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:15.919 because it's it's sort of imaginary. It's sort of like 168 00:12:16.039 --> 00:12:19.720 when I think back with time that is gone, I 169 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:22.320 think it was a great time, but there's no truth 170 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.320 that it was a great time. And as saying good 171 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:30.039 time in your particular right world. 172 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:32.879 Yeah, I mean I was really cute in the eighties, 173 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:35.240 but we were scared to death to have sex. We 174 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:37.919 didn't know what's fun, you know, I mean, like we 175 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:39.399 had great music, but. 176 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:44.480 Yeah, you can't desire a thing that you have. You 177 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.879 can only desire the thing that you either have yet 178 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:50.320 to achieve or the thing that you've lost. 179 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:53.600 There, Yeah, there is fair. 180 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:57.919 I just wanted to say I love the story of 181 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:00.480 how this kind of came to be, you know, starting 182 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:04.120 in two thousand and eight, so it's a seventeen year 183 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:09.600 journey bringing this to the stage. And I love the 184 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.240 fact that it looks like eventually Felicia Rashad was involved. 185 00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:16.600 How cool is that? Right? 186 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:22.360 She's creative Consultant, I think is her official title on 187 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:28.759 the project. Her and Paul Okball, one of the co 188 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:33.879 adaptors and the director have a close relationship, and we 189 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:37.679 were lucky enough to get to even have a little 190 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:43.159 chat with her in like the last couple previews in rehearsals. 191 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:47.200 Just check in with her and help us through some 192 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.080 difficult moments because some. 193 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:50.679 Of the language is. 194 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.879 Not modern in its point of view, and I think 195 00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:04.360 especially Hella has this speech about like let me be 196 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:09.200 a woman, let me be your little servant and be 197 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:12.879 your let me do the things that women are supposed 198 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:17.200 to do, quote unquote, And I'll give up cigarettes, I'll 199 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:19.840 wear my hair long, I'll throw away my books. I 200 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:24.559 will do anything to make this work. Let me be 201 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:31.039 a woman, and not to tell the actors story for her, 202 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.960 but she was having trouble making that makes sense today. 203 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:48.440 And Felicious said to let it be poetry that we've 204 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:52.840 all been in that situation where we want something so 205 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:57.840 badly that we would do anything, We would compromise our 206 00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:03.159 own desires and our own morals and our own humanity 207 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:08.000 in order to grasp at this thing that is being 208 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:16.720 pulled away from us. And we mentioned how like back 209 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:21.519 in the good old days quote how much of the 210 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:26.039 struggle of repression was about masculinity and about femininity. And 211 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:30.440 it's not just a struggle of whether to be you 212 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:33.480 can be gay or not, but it's also a struggle 213 00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:35.799 of what it means to be a man, what it 214 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:41.960 means to be a woman. David struggles with his manhood 215 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:44.879 and in a relationship with another man, he thinks that 216 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:48.440 he's being treated like a woman, and he struggles with 217 00:15:48.519 --> 00:15:53.240 that because it's so unfamiliar, and like, God forbid, I 218 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:54.639 get treated like a woman. 219 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:59.960 Uh huh, because we know how that goes. 220 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:07.240 The worst thing you can call someone, Okay, Mitch, tell 221 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:08.679 me a little bit about your character. 222 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:15.000 Yeah, flaming Princess is a which is a wonderful name, 223 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:20.879 and that, like in the novel, is not named. They 224 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:27.440 are a denizen of the bar that walks away like 225 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:33.240 a princess flaming. And that's kind of where that I've 226 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:38.200 done where the title comes from, I know. But in 227 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:44.000 the novel it's a much older character and it is 228 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:50.120 another kind of wise bend there, I know what you're 229 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:57.120 going through, voice using he and him and sometimes it 230 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:04.799 in the novel, and but but described as having eyes 231 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:10.160 gleaming with mascara and a mouth raging with lipstick, and 232 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:15.880 the shirt coquettishly open to reveal a hairless chest like 233 00:17:16.839 --> 00:17:24.519 it's and there's descriptions about this character's body being not 234 00:17:24.640 --> 00:17:28.079 quite round in the places that you'd think it would 235 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:32.240 be round in the way that they're presenting themselves. And 236 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:39.359 big language didn't exist, but it is a trans person. 237 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.559 It is right, Well, it's en, it's a queen, but 238 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:44.960 that's the language that exists. 239 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:52.000 And this character in the bar after she sees and 240 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:56.880 I'm gonna use she after she sees. Sorry, James, not 241 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:01.519 to defy you're your writing, James Baldwin, but I'm gonna 242 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:06.599 use she instead of he. She gives him a warning 243 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:12.079 that like, I see what you what this little flourishing 244 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.319 relationship that is starting. 245 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:16.279 And. 246 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:20.960 You're gonna go to hell for the way that you're 247 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:25.440 gonna treat this man. And it's not said so explicitly 248 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:29.440 as you're gonna cause a lot of people harm, but 249 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:33.799 it's a boy like that is dangerous for a boy like. 250 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:35.960 You, and. 251 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:43.400 You're gonna burn in a very hot fire. And he 252 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:49.079 tells her to go fuck herself, and she says, no, no, 253 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.039 I will be just fine because you can't touch me. 254 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:57.559 And he, even if he tries to, he gets ready 255 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:02.519 to go at her, and nobody else in that bar 256 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.680 is going to let you touch her. 257 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.599 Right, I love that? And he runs into on. 258 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:12.400 The street later and she's the one that in public 259 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:18.000 calls him a fag after he says, you're no, you're 260 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.559 no girl, You're a freak, and she says, and you 261 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:23.680 are a fag. 262 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:25.480 Not so different. 263 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.000 I feel like I've had this conversation, right. 264 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:36.039 So it's interesting because in the novel she would be 265 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:45.200 an older, wise kind of seer character, and in our adaptation, 266 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:53.519 by this is my understanding that the wise, older character 267 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:58.759 spot was kind of is already exists in the adaptation, 268 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.799 and and you can have multiple of those over hours 269 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.640 and hours and hours of a novel, but in a 270 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:12.319 two hour play, that role is there. And what is 271 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:18.039 really impactful is David looking and these two characters looking 272 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.960 at each other as possible reflections of what their lives 273 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:25.640 could have been, as they're in a very similar spot 274 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:32.920 in life, and Flaming Princess sees David as I. 275 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:33.680 Could have been you. 276 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:42.960 I could have been a beautiful, blonde, handsome man, and 277 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:47.519 I could have been privileged, and there could have been 278 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:50.480 successes in my life. My life could have been easy, 279 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:55.839 just like yours is. But I admitted to myself who 280 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:59.759 I am even though my life is harder, my life 281 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:04.839 is worth living now mm hmm. And that part, I 282 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:08.039 was brave enough to do it. And you are a coward. 283 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:11.079 And because you are a coward, you are going to 284 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:14.200 hurt yourself and you were going to hurt so many 285 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:15.599 people around you. 286 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:22.839 And that's so sad, it is, but that's real. Yeah, yeah, 287 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:24.960 she sees them as I told you so. 288 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:29.079 I tried to tell you, but nothing more I can do. 289 00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:35.680 I love that was that tell me? Was it? Easy, hard, fun. 290 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:42.640 It is all of those things, Okay. Coming into the process, 291 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:47.319 of course, it was very overwhelming to feel this like 292 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:52.839 weight on my shoulders of not only the words of 293 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:59.920 Baldwin and the pressure doing the novel justice, but all 294 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.680 so the pressure to do right by my community, in 295 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:10.079 our community and represent trans people with dignity and not 296 00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:16.759 as a caricature and not as some not a man 297 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:20.079 in address and not a joke, but as a person 298 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:27.680 with dignity and humanity and a person that deserves a 299 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:31.119 spot in the world, and a proof that we've always 300 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:34.759 been here. We didn't have the language for it, but 301 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:36.279 we've always been. 302 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:38.039 Here, of course. 303 00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:43.119 And then going into rehearsals, it becomes very fun to 304 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:49.359 then be oh so powerful and feel the flame and 305 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:55.680 the fire in that and like put on the accent 306 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:59.440 and suddenly you feel a lot sexier, I feel a 307 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:00.519 lot more woutful. 308 00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:06.039 Okay, it's it's a ride. Okay. 309 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:14.000 Was the part of the character who is still identified 310 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:15.599 as male? How did you deal with that. 311 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:17.599 For you? 312 00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:22.640 Yeah, she does get clocked on the street by another 313 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:28.319 character that it's like, what is that not spar off 314 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:34.000 to Phantom of the Opera, And it's it's about the 315 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:35.799 separation of the character in the acter. 316 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:42.839 That's about being h that is taking care of yourself 317 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:43.839 in the rehearsal process. 318 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:46.279 And that's something we had to make a distinction about 319 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:52.279 very early on in our agreements as a community, that like, 320 00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.599 that is not me, that is how you're treating that person, 321 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:01.480 but the person the actor that says that on stage. 322 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:06.400 I am that's my sister and we're friends and we're 323 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:09.960 in the same dressing room together and we giggle and 324 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:14.240 kiki and all of that. So I can protect my 325 00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:21.160 humanity person to person knowing that the character gets treated 326 00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:21.599 that way. 327 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:27.200 No, I love that, And yeah, it's storytelling from a 328 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.400 different era. And you know that you can do that 329 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:33.160 and do it well, good for you. 330 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:34.559 And I don't know. 331 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:36.400 I don't know if I could. At this point. I 332 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:38.200 feel like I have a hard time, right. 333 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:42.359 I definitely feel like, you know, if you come to 334 00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:49.160 the material from that place of honor and respect and authenticity, 335 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:54.039 it's going to ring true kind of no matter what happens. 336 00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:02.279 So I understand, you know, one to make sure that 337 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:07.440 certain things are are handled correctly, but when you come 338 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:09.519 from a place that place of honesty, I think I 339 00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:11.319 feel like that will always come through you know what 340 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:11.680 I mean? 341 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:13.440 And did know? 342 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.759 You know, I would be remiss if I didn't bring 343 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:22.400 the other Martha up because you've been known for from 344 00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:25.359 years as Martha Graham. 345 00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:30.200 Cracker from one mark, Yeah, did she make an. 346 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.079 Appearance from one Martha to another? 347 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:33.799 Did? 348 00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:37.759 Did did that inform this in any way? You've done 349 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.160 it for so long, and you've just got this amazing 350 00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:43.039 character that has got a part of She's part of 351 00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:43.799 you at this point. 352 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.680 I don't know. I mean, I played this character name 353 00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.200 who as as I said, like, is it like an elder, 354 00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:57.880 older gay statesman? And uh in that way he doesn't. 355 00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:01.359 I don't know. He dropped wisdom in a way that 356 00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:07.920 I hope Martha also does. But he's yeah, no, he 357 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:13.000 but he's a businessman. He's wearing a suit. He okay, 358 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:15.720 he's a Belgian guy who works. 359 00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:17.920 I was just trying to fit that in there. I mean, 360 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.559 I was just trying to make sure we got Martha 361 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:22.640 into the conversation. 362 00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:25.680 So one thing that I love about him that maybe 363 00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:30.640 Yeah did that because he dropped his these wisdom bombs. 364 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:39.000 But he's yeah, witty, like he said, he jokes in 365 00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:42.720 a very sophisticated way with David, and he's like he 366 00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:48.279 very clearly sees David the main character, and he kind 367 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:54.680 of knows how to both like poke at him and 368 00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:59.839 joke with him, and and yeah, I think he wants 369 00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:02.680 to flirt with David and be friends with him. But 370 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:08.960 he also like, I see how all this lying that 371 00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:18.519 I see you doing your downfall. Ah. So it's it's 372 00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:20.279 a fun character because he gets to do a lot 373 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:24.519 of different things, and in his wittedness, I would say 374 00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:28.200 he's related to Martha, but yeah, in other ways he's 375 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:33.440 he's just some dude. Okay, that's fair. And it's funny 376 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:39.200 because and I play I play both the dad in 377 00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:44.440 Letters Letters to Date one who kind of reinforces like 378 00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:47.359 what we're expecting is for you to marry a woman 379 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:51.119 so that I can release the me that you keep 380 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:56.279 asking for too, because until you married, I don't know 381 00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:57.680 what you're doing over there. I'm not gonna let you 382 00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:02.519 waste your money just sing around Europe. So there's this 383 00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:07.799 like father figure that is the data. And then there's 384 00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:12.240 this father figure it was just an older game, and 385 00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:18.319 who was trying to help lead David through the the 386 00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:21.839 CD Gay Underworld of Paris, you know. 387 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:24.720 And I gotta say, and I love to tell this 388 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:28.000 story because you know, some of these folks are still around, 389 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:31.440 like Sandy Beach. Sandy Beach was a bartender in Atlantic 390 00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:33.839 City when I was coming of age. You know, once 391 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.960 I had a driver's lace, my cousin and I would 392 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:39.839 go to New York Avenue and that's where we found community. 393 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:44.000 That's that's that was it. And you know people like 394 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.319 like sis Uh, Sonny and and Sandy and they looked 395 00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:51.079 out for us, you know, they they kind of warned 396 00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:53.480 us away from certain people or they told them, don't 397 00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:57.400 leave those kids alone. You know, they were they were 398 00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:01.680 that almost the oracles that kept us alive, and you know, 399 00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:04.920 said welcome. Nobody got carted back then. You know, if 400 00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:08.559 you could get your ass there, come on, come on in. 401 00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:12.640