WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:07.099 You are listening to Something Rather Than Nothing. Creator and host, 2 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:12.259 Ken Velante. Editor and producer, Peter Bauer. 3 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:17.579 Hey, everybody. 4 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:21.390 This is Ken Velante with the Something Rather Than Nothing podcast. 5 00:00:21.769 --> 00:00:25.250 And I am very pleased to have Jay Webster Sharp 6 00:00:26.230 --> 00:00:35.479 reaching Gemma from New York. And Gemma is an illustrator 7 00:00:35.539 --> 00:00:39.600 that I encountered on Instagram that had such a visceral 8 00:00:39.780 --> 00:00:44.359 impact on me, the illustrations. 9 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:45.840 And powerful images. 10 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:49.670 And I just kind of got drawn into these images, 11 00:00:50.049 --> 00:00:52.369 which is why I reached out to you, Gemma. 12 00:00:52.390 --> 00:00:54.189 And I'm just so pleased to have you on the show. 13 00:00:54.229 --> 00:00:56.649 Welcome on to Something Rather Than Nothing. 14 00:00:57.429 --> 00:01:01.009 Thank you for having me. I, uh. 15 00:01:02.229 --> 00:01:05.140 There's, there's a couple like bigger typical questions that I 16 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:08.379 tend to ask guests, um, that I like to explore, 17 00:01:08.420 --> 00:01:13.019 like their identity as artists. And, uh, my first question is, 18 00:01:13.379 --> 00:01:16.180 was there a moment you saw yourself as an artist 19 00:01:16.340 --> 00:01:19.180 and identified as an artist? Was it, did it happen 20 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:22.599 as a moment or has that happened or what's your 21 00:01:22.620 --> 00:01:23.299 feelings on that? 22 00:01:24.099 --> 00:01:25.859 I feel that it was something that I just kind 23 00:01:25.909 --> 00:01:31.109 of grew into from being a kid and, um, knowing 24 00:01:31.549 --> 00:01:34.069 like when you're about seven or eight wow i'm really 25 00:01:34.109 --> 00:01:36.989 good at drawing because it's better than all my classmates 26 00:01:37.049 --> 00:01:40.769 drawings and paintings and stuff and being worried if a 27 00:01:40.810 --> 00:01:43.310 new kid joined the class who could draw pretty well 28 00:01:43.390 --> 00:01:48.390 because it meant that my place in that class has 29 00:01:48.430 --> 00:01:51.790 been the good drawer it was in jeopardy and that 30 00:01:51.829 --> 00:01:54.420 makes me sound mean but i i wasn't at all 31 00:01:54.859 --> 00:01:58.299 i think um I think I decided when I was 32 00:01:58.359 --> 00:02:00.519 about 13 that I was going to be an artist 33 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:03.480 because that was about the age that I realized that, oh, 34 00:02:03.500 --> 00:02:05.120 this is something that you could do as a living. 35 00:02:05.140 --> 00:02:09.889 And I would read a lot of artists' biographies and 36 00:02:11.030 --> 00:02:16.069 get taken to art galleries in the nearest cities and things. 37 00:02:16.689 --> 00:02:19.259 So it kind of felt like it was something that 38 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:23.439 was doable. And that's kind of what I aimed for 39 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:26.259 from about 13. 40 00:02:26.780 --> 00:02:29.000 So when you're in, when you're in class, when you're younger, 41 00:02:29.060 --> 00:02:34.259 was there something like you were intuitively drawing or processing out? 42 00:02:34.340 --> 00:02:38.680 Like for myself, I do geometric geometric patterns like in repetition. 43 00:02:38.740 --> 00:02:40.300 And that started when I was a kid. It's just 44 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:42.659 something I like to do. Was there, was there a 45 00:02:42.699 --> 00:02:44.919 types of things that kind of emanated from you when 46 00:02:44.939 --> 00:02:45.580 you were younger? 47 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:47.840 Uh, just like flowing out of you. 48 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:51.419 I think you talk about repetition. I think I was 49 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.270 very good at the way I taught myself was, um, 50 00:02:55.729 --> 00:02:59.669 to copy things that I found, copy drawings. And I 51 00:02:59.710 --> 00:03:03.610 had colouring books that were... I had a great colouring 52 00:03:03.669 --> 00:03:07.340 book that was a fellow's name, Russo, did all those 53 00:03:07.409 --> 00:03:09.780 jungle scenes. And there was a page and it had 54 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:12.539 the tiger coming out of the jungle and the tiger's 55 00:03:12.580 --> 00:03:15.240 got this manic look on its face. And you're drawing 56 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:18.439 it as a kid and thinking, wow, you know, this 57 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:25.849 looks crazy. And also... I come from a working class 58 00:03:25.909 --> 00:03:31.139 background and I would get a lot of praise if 59 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:37.080 I could, if I copied something and got it as 60 00:03:37.159 --> 00:03:39.919 correct as I could, I'd get praise for that. 61 00:03:40.060 --> 00:03:40.340 Yeah. 62 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:43.039 Because I, you know, I came from a family that 63 00:03:43.060 --> 00:03:47.659 was more responsive to, you know, more of the kind 64 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:52.669 of like realist looking stuff, not so much abstract work. 65 00:03:53.300 --> 00:03:57.719 and sculpture and things. And so I felt that looking 66 00:03:57.780 --> 00:04:02.189 back now, that was the direction I was encouraged in 67 00:04:02.229 --> 00:04:05.789 because that was the kind of artwork my family could understand. Yeah. 68 00:04:07.969 --> 00:04:08.810 It was like that. 69 00:04:08.830 --> 00:04:12.870 There was like a value within. I, I, I think 70 00:04:12.930 --> 00:04:15.770 I know in my mind, what, what you mean is 71 00:04:15.830 --> 00:04:20.009 like within the kind of, um, um, work in that 72 00:04:20.069 --> 00:04:22.089 like you had done it really well like you had 73 00:04:22.170 --> 00:04:25.540 done the work really well like as opposed to something 74 00:04:25.629 --> 00:04:29.360 in the environment where it's like super you know imaginative 75 00:04:29.459 --> 00:04:32.399 creative like you did the work well what was like 76 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:35.660 what was like when you when you uh were you 77 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.519 know doing art when you're younger like what was the 78 00:04:38.899 --> 00:04:41.850 reaction like what was your environment like even in school 79 00:04:41.889 --> 00:04:45.449 did you feel like there were positive cultivations of it 80 00:04:45.689 --> 00:04:49.290 or it was like your secret your secret love. 81 00:04:50.310 --> 00:04:53.089 No, it was very, I mean, knowing what I do 82 00:04:53.170 --> 00:04:57.470 now about art lessons in British schools, I think I 83 00:04:57.529 --> 00:05:00.120 was very lucky to get the art education I had 84 00:05:00.769 --> 00:05:04.199 in the primary school and secondary school that I went to. Um, 85 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:11.959 it was way more involved, um, very encouraged. Um, you've 86 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:18.490 got to look at lots of different artists and, um, Now, 87 00:05:20.189 --> 00:05:23.490 it isn't like that at all. It didn't feel like 88 00:05:23.550 --> 00:05:26.889 something I had to keep secret. It didn't feel like 89 00:05:27.009 --> 00:05:32.100 something that wasn't considered proper. And I never met anyone 90 00:05:32.180 --> 00:05:38.560 who didn't take me seriously in my career goals. I 91 00:05:38.620 --> 00:05:41.420 never had anyone tell me that I couldn't do it 92 00:05:42.259 --> 00:05:45.439 or that it was unrealistic, even though I never knew 93 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:50.319 anyone who had gone that direction it to them, I 94 00:05:50.379 --> 00:05:53.360 seemed capable of doing it. So I was encouraged. 95 00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:04.500 You moved into, um, I believe like portrait, uh, painting, uh, and, and, 96 00:06:04.579 --> 00:06:11.480 and for context to the listeners, um, uh, Gemma's Gemma's work, uh, 97 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:12.100 moving more. 98 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:15.970 Into kind of, uh, general sequential, uh, sequential art. 99 00:06:17.540 --> 00:06:24.339 And I'd read more from a portrait painting. Within that 100 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:33.529 period of your art, were you enjoying that? Was that 101 00:06:33.629 --> 00:06:36.649 exactly how you saw yourself? And related to that, what 102 00:06:36.670 --> 00:06:39.750 was the transition to the type of thing where I 103 00:06:39.790 --> 00:06:42.649 can find your book in the comic book store and 104 00:06:42.829 --> 00:06:46.009 just be like, whoa, who is this? Which was my experience. 105 00:06:46.769 --> 00:06:50.230 So from the work that you were doing into more 106 00:06:50.250 --> 00:06:52.009 of the comic space? 107 00:06:54.439 --> 00:06:58.480 Well, I'd had exposure to comics when I was a kid. 108 00:06:59.259 --> 00:07:03.180 When I was a teenager, that turned into Dan Clowes 109 00:07:03.779 --> 00:07:07.540 and the like. Oh, yes. Even though I was a painter, 110 00:07:08.019 --> 00:07:15.399 I did see comic work and graphic work and paint 111 00:07:15.500 --> 00:07:19.519 work as kind of belonging to different worlds, really, when 112 00:07:19.790 --> 00:07:22.810 that wasn't the case. But I'd gone to university with 113 00:07:22.850 --> 00:07:26.310 the aim of being a portrait painter. That was what 114 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:30.350 I was interested in and what I could do well. 115 00:07:31.529 --> 00:07:35.860 But I just didn't have the personality, the confidence to 116 00:07:35.889 --> 00:07:37.920 carry off that kind of career. And, of course, I 117 00:07:37.959 --> 00:07:41.220 didn't know that until I'd left university and tried to 118 00:07:41.259 --> 00:07:43.939 make a go of it. And it just didn't work. 119 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:47.579 because I wasn't the type of person to push myself 120 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:53.779 forward or make connections and it kind of I really 121 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:56.370 tried to stay on that track for a long time 122 00:07:57.110 --> 00:08:00.810 and I kind of tried my hand at like textile 123 00:08:00.889 --> 00:08:04.709 sculpture and and then I kind of dip into drawing 124 00:08:04.730 --> 00:08:07.129 and think oh no I shouldn't be doing this I 125 00:08:07.170 --> 00:08:10.819 should be doing painting because that's what I went to 126 00:08:10.899 --> 00:08:14.459 university for and take took out a student loan for 127 00:08:15.100 --> 00:08:17.720 and I'd always go back to the painting and then 128 00:08:17.740 --> 00:08:21.500 that wouldn't work and I just spend I spent a 129 00:08:21.540 --> 00:08:26.399 good few years kind of yo-yoing back between drawing and 130 00:08:26.459 --> 00:08:29.110 painting because I couldn't do and I still can't I 131 00:08:29.990 --> 00:08:33.250 can't do the two things both at the same time 132 00:08:33.269 --> 00:08:36.570 two different things so I can't paint and draw it's 133 00:08:36.610 --> 00:08:39.500 got to be one or the other And I had 134 00:08:39.539 --> 00:08:42.279 a go at making comics back in about 2009. And 135 00:08:42.620 --> 00:08:49.259 it kind of worked. And people liked it. And then 136 00:08:49.379 --> 00:08:53.210 I fell out of that and went back to painting. 137 00:08:54.750 --> 00:08:57.830 From where I am now is where I began back 138 00:08:57.950 --> 00:09:07.549 in May 2021. And now I've just made this my career. 139 00:09:09.230 --> 00:09:14.320 And it feels like it's kind of worked. Yeah. 140 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:17.100 Yeah, thank you. 141 00:09:19.179 --> 00:09:24.080 The book you put out, The Scrapbook of Life and Death, 142 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:29.820 first of all, in my experience in reading it, I 143 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:32.470 just really try to, you know, in talking aloud, like 144 00:09:32.909 --> 00:09:36.769 in audio and speaking with you about death, Um, you know, 145 00:09:36.830 --> 00:09:39.110 the world of illustration that you do, I just want 146 00:09:39.149 --> 00:09:42.370 to say like my art experience, like my experience of 147 00:09:42.429 --> 00:09:45.929 that recently and going through that, it pulled me so 148 00:09:46.009 --> 00:09:51.000 deeply into a text, into, uh, into the pages, into 149 00:09:51.009 --> 00:09:54.980 the lines, into the illustrations that, uh, it just, I 150 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:56.899 don't have the words to describe it, but it was, 151 00:09:57.750 --> 00:10:03.200 really moving into that world. I think there's this fascinating, 152 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:09.799 deep eccentricity that I didn't know other people enjoyed or 153 00:10:10.139 --> 00:10:14.799 would enjoy about the idea of what people collect or 154 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:19.440 collect a lot of or what they pick out from 155 00:10:19.460 --> 00:10:23.320 the environments around them and like the curious, the strange 156 00:10:23.419 --> 00:10:26.830 of like, I can't believe that happened. And, and, and 157 00:10:26.889 --> 00:10:32.350 it's in that world, um, uh, that you do, you know, 158 00:10:32.389 --> 00:10:36.980 the recent work scrapbook of, uh, life and death. Um, and, 159 00:10:38.710 --> 00:10:45.240 What is it about what people collect, or in the 160 00:10:45.299 --> 00:10:52.720 instance of this book, what somebody else collects that launched 161 00:10:52.740 --> 00:10:59.090 you into this project, the eccentricity of collection? What brought 162 00:10:59.110 --> 00:10:59.889 you to that space? 163 00:11:01.370 --> 00:11:06.090 Well, my book is kind of from a book that 164 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:11.100 which was filled with all these newspaper clippings, this fellow, 165 00:11:11.899 --> 00:11:20.509 George Ives had compiled. You get hoarders, you get collectors 166 00:11:20.610 --> 00:11:27.710 of baseball cards and film memorabilia and autographs and things. 167 00:11:29.029 --> 00:11:38.389 And it's like people... people trying to find an anchor 168 00:11:40.909 --> 00:11:44.720 for themselves in a world that isn't maybe particularly as 169 00:11:44.820 --> 00:11:50.960 friendly to them as it could be. It's about not 170 00:11:51.220 --> 00:11:57.100 having control maybe over parts of your existence, but then 171 00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:00.759 you can come home to this world you've made of 172 00:12:00.820 --> 00:12:08.870 your own and filled with things of yours. Um, Spaces. 173 00:12:08.889 --> 00:12:14.350 I'm interested in spaces. I'm interested in what I can 174 00:12:14.429 --> 00:12:18.450 show in the space in a panel. I'm interested in 175 00:12:24.110 --> 00:12:27.590 the spaces people inhabit, the worlds of their own that 176 00:12:27.629 --> 00:12:33.250 they make. And that's really interesting because it says so 177 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:34.889 much about the people. 178 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:43.340 Yeah i really like oh sorry no no go ahead 179 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:44.460 please no. 180 00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:46.299 Not that this has anything to do with hoarding or 181 00:12:46.350 --> 00:12:49.830 collecting but i think about i think about the documentary 182 00:12:50.110 --> 00:12:55.789 and by the mazels um gray gardens a lot and 183 00:12:55.809 --> 00:13:01.690 the space that um little edie and big edie inhabited 184 00:13:02.169 --> 00:13:07.570 with all those cats and raccoons and Their house falling 185 00:13:08.289 --> 00:13:14.649 down around them and it's just filled with trash and rubbish. 186 00:13:15.070 --> 00:13:15.870 Yeah, yeah. 187 00:13:17.149 --> 00:13:22.320 I think about them and that world. That's a great documentary. 188 00:13:23.500 --> 00:13:29.500 I watch that so much. 189 00:13:29.740 --> 00:13:33.299 Thanks for the recommendation. Have you ever seen that? 190 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:35.019 I haven't. 191 00:13:35.929 --> 00:13:37.710 Oh, it's on YouTube. You should go watch it. 192 00:13:38.830 --> 00:13:42.299 I definitely will, right after this. 193 00:13:44.379 --> 00:13:46.799 How'd you get into Fatty Arbuckle, right? I could say 194 00:13:46.820 --> 00:13:47.679 that for myself. 195 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:53.669 I don't even know. It's kind of like the life 196 00:13:53.750 --> 00:13:56.269 I've had and just picking up bits and pieces here 197 00:13:56.309 --> 00:13:58.970 and there and kind of knowing that I know of 198 00:13:59.070 --> 00:14:02.769 people and events before I even really know of them 199 00:14:02.850 --> 00:14:06.399 just because I've I encountered them by chance, just like, 200 00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:11.299 it's like I've always known who he was without knowing 201 00:14:11.379 --> 00:14:14.000 anything about him. So I obviously went to an antiques 202 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:18.179 fair and saw something or read something on the internet 203 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:21.059 when I was, you know, probably reading about Buster Keaton 204 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:26.889 or something. Mostly it was, I was watching, there's a 205 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:30.850 documentary series on YouTube that's about eight episodes long and 206 00:14:30.889 --> 00:14:33.860 it was made in the late 70s, early 80s. And 207 00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:39.610 it was about the beginning of Hollywood, back when silent 208 00:14:39.710 --> 00:14:45.909 filmmaking moved from rooftops in New York across to California 209 00:14:45.929 --> 00:14:50.190 because the sun was out all the time. And everything 210 00:14:50.230 --> 00:14:55.419 that's Hollywood now used to be like orange groves. And 211 00:14:55.580 --> 00:15:00.700 there's an episode of that. Most of the episode is 212 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:05.929 about Fatty Arbuckle. It's a story that I've definitely heard 213 00:15:06.009 --> 00:15:10.120 snippets of over the years, because if you like true crime, 214 00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:17.200 you probably know something about it. If you like old Hollywood, 215 00:15:17.799 --> 00:15:19.740 you're going to know about it from that. 216 00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:21.279 Scandal, scandal. 217 00:15:21.700 --> 00:15:22.019 Yeah. 218 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:23.320 Media. 219 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:28.500 Yeah. Trial by media. Practically one of the first ones 220 00:15:28.580 --> 00:15:33.409 as well, and and just his associations with other people 221 00:15:33.429 --> 00:15:38.750 of the time, like Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin. And 222 00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:43.000 I just thought it was such a, it's still a 223 00:15:43.059 --> 00:15:50.399 story that people have very strong feelings about, you know, today, 224 00:15:50.419 --> 00:15:55.950 a hundred years down the line, practically. And I just 225 00:15:56.029 --> 00:15:59.019 wondered if I could tell it in the way that I, 226 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:03.539 you know, cause I make wordless work. So this guy 227 00:16:03.580 --> 00:16:06.960 was the star of silent films. And I, I thought, 228 00:16:07.820 --> 00:16:11.000 I thought I'd have a go at kind of telling 229 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:12.500 this story in a silent way. 230 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:21.230 Your depictions that I've seen on, on Instagram are, they're beautiful. 231 00:16:22.450 --> 00:16:29.549 They're beautiful. They're, they're, they're absolutely beautiful. Um, there's a, 232 00:16:29.889 --> 00:16:36.070 there's a reality, there's a deep reality to the expression in, in, in, 233 00:16:36.269 --> 00:16:39.070 in the face. I think like when I think about 234 00:16:39.110 --> 00:16:42.240 that case and I don't, I've been throughout my life, 235 00:16:42.269 --> 00:16:44.379 I've dipped in and out of it. I've been fascinated 236 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:49.480 by the idea of Hollywood and that brightness and like 237 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:51.980 the underbelly. And I know that's been like, at least 238 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:55.909 in our American culture, been like, really develop, but I 239 00:16:55.950 --> 00:16:58.649 grew up working class kid in Rhode Island. And for me, 240 00:16:58.750 --> 00:17:01.600 Hollywood like is the other side of the U S 241 00:17:01.669 --> 00:17:04.859 and actually represented like, cause I love movies so much, 242 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:09.240 these kind of like unreal fantastical elements. 243 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:13.859 Like it was so far away. It was bright. The, it, 244 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:14.700 it did. 245 00:17:14.619 --> 00:17:20.259 Glitter and people were different, you know, it's a, so 246 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:24.319 it had that compelling piece, but I'm also, I, drawn 247 00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:28.339 by the tragic and dark and, um, the black Dahlia 248 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:33.829 murders and the, the, the way you look at these 249 00:17:33.930 --> 00:17:37.109 stories and even the way they were written about, which, um, 250 00:17:37.829 --> 00:17:41.529 you know, say in the clippings and stuff, uh, the 251 00:17:41.569 --> 00:17:44.750 way they're written about is so different and feel so 252 00:17:45.990 --> 00:17:50.890 different words and, and, and sensation that, and it's so 253 00:17:50.970 --> 00:17:53.670 long ago, um, Where, like you said, there's still this 254 00:17:53.730 --> 00:17:55.109 controversy around Fatty. 255 00:17:55.130 --> 00:17:55.710 You are buckling. 256 00:17:55.750 --> 00:17:58.559 You think about it's a century ago and we're thinking 257 00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:06.269 about video, right? And, and, and, and film, um, I'm 258 00:18:06.329 --> 00:18:12.150 telling you directly, I'm most excited for. 259 00:18:13.329 --> 00:18:14.650 The Fatty Arbuckle work. 260 00:18:15.569 --> 00:18:17.750 Are you talking about it at this point as far 261 00:18:17.789 --> 00:18:21.539 as timetable or general aspirations for that work? 262 00:18:21.670 --> 00:18:24.160 Because if you do, I'd love for you to indulge me. 263 00:18:24.779 --> 00:18:30.500 Oh, well, there is someone who wants it. I don't 264 00:18:30.539 --> 00:18:34.559 know if I can talk about that, but yeah, it's... 265 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:38.140 It should be available at some point. 266 00:18:39.029 --> 00:18:39.690 That's good. 267 00:18:40.049 --> 00:18:43.509 I've nearly finished. I mean, it's taken... I was actually 268 00:18:43.529 --> 00:18:47.589 quite shocked when a few weeks back, I looked to 269 00:18:47.630 --> 00:18:51.390 see that I actually began this. It'll be like two 270 00:18:51.450 --> 00:18:54.680 years ago in November. So I've been working on it 271 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.440 for longer than I thought that I had been, actually. Wow. 272 00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:01.759 What was that feeling like when that hit you, given 273 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:03.859 the length of time and what was in your head? 274 00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:04.720 What did that feel like? 275 00:19:05.420 --> 00:19:09.559 Well, actually, I was like, oh, I should have done more, actually. 276 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:12.529 It should be longer if I've really been working on 277 00:19:12.549 --> 00:19:14.890 it for this long. But the way that I draw, 278 00:19:16.009 --> 00:19:19.390 it's great because it looks so great. But at the 279 00:19:19.450 --> 00:19:21.849 same time, I work as fast as I can, but 280 00:19:21.890 --> 00:19:23.369 it's just not quick enough. 281 00:19:29.059 --> 00:19:34.259 I'm so excited. And you said somebody wants it. Absolutely. 282 00:19:34.859 --> 00:19:39.200 Just for any, in general, any publisher, anybody thinking about 283 00:19:39.259 --> 00:19:43.309 the space for this. I see the, just, you know, online, 284 00:19:43.329 --> 00:19:45.470 I don't, you know, and I've talked to other folks 285 00:19:45.529 --> 00:19:47.849 who are fans of yours. I'm in the kind of 286 00:19:47.910 --> 00:19:52.059 like Portland, Oregon, around college. and comic book stores. So 287 00:19:52.779 --> 00:19:57.880 like deeply excited and, and, and fascinated base of like, 288 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.710 even people that I know out here. And I've seen that, um, 289 00:20:00.990 --> 00:20:04.710 I mean, at least online through the reaction to work 290 00:20:04.789 --> 00:20:10.710 where it's like considering, uh, something significant. And, and, I 291 00:20:10.730 --> 00:20:13.759 feel blessed in the Portland, Oregon area because I've been 292 00:20:13.779 --> 00:20:18.700 a huge comics nerd my entire life. And I didn't 293 00:20:18.779 --> 00:20:20.599 know when I came out here, I was like moving 294 00:20:20.660 --> 00:20:25.990 to a Mecca of like multiple comic book shops, multiple 295 00:20:26.069 --> 00:20:30.710 like creators and zine and independent culture. So it's been 296 00:20:30.750 --> 00:20:33.789 a real thrill. Can I tell you one thing about 297 00:20:33.869 --> 00:20:36.150 my collecting Gemma of comic books? 298 00:20:36.539 --> 00:20:36.650 Yeah. 299 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:42.200 So I, for years I've had my comic books and 300 00:20:42.740 --> 00:20:47.009 I got enthralled by the idea of like, I'm turning 301 00:20:47.009 --> 00:20:50.829 54 next month. And like, I was getting comic books 302 00:20:50.890 --> 00:20:53.230 since I was in diapers. So the idea is something 303 00:20:53.250 --> 00:20:58.779 like in a half century, an obsessive type who loves 304 00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:05.220 his comics for comfort, imagination, tactile enjoyment. How many have 305 00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:09.460 I acquired? So, I get this app where I'm taking 306 00:21:09.619 --> 00:21:12.940 photos of the covers and then adding a little detail 307 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.740 of what issue I own. So I'm going issue by issue, 308 00:21:15.819 --> 00:21:20.539 snap by snap by snap. And I think the total 309 00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:24.220 amount for my estimation right now, I'm about a quarter 310 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:29.579 of the way through my collection, is $ 6, 500. individual issues. 311 00:21:29.660 --> 00:21:31.559 And you could say, Jim, I was like, Oh, you know, 312 00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:34.589 I've seen some people collect some, you know, I love 313 00:21:34.700 --> 00:21:38.450 that as a fact or like a material piling up. 314 00:21:38.650 --> 00:21:41.329 I'm fascinated by my piling up because as I go 315 00:21:41.410 --> 00:21:44.369 through it, I can tell you that my therapist told 316 00:21:44.390 --> 00:21:47.890 me it was my number one form of meditation. So 317 00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:50.650 as I'm going step by step, touching and feeling the 318 00:21:50.710 --> 00:21:52.849 things that are like the worlds I've had since a 319 00:21:52.890 --> 00:21:58.609 little kid, like, It's all good for me. The other piece, though, Gemma, 320 00:21:59.269 --> 00:22:03.609 is I got two bookshelves that are filled with properly 321 00:22:03.670 --> 00:22:08.740 bound and collected graphic novels. So it isn't like those 6,500 322 00:22:08.740 --> 00:22:11.279 issues were enough when I had a little more resources 323 00:22:11.339 --> 00:22:14.700 maybe over the last 10 to 15 years to indulge 324 00:22:14.740 --> 00:22:19.400 in manga and graphic novels. I'm like... I didn't replace 325 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:23.140 one with the other. They just both compiled to such 326 00:22:23.180 --> 00:22:26.380 a massive degree. So as I'm talking to you, you know, 327 00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:28.660 and in doing this interview, I think it's kind of 328 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.579 funny because at about midnight last night, I'm over there 329 00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:36.869 sitting on my recliner with my happy pile of comic books. 330 00:22:42.190 --> 00:22:43.990 So that was my experience. 331 00:22:45.789 --> 00:22:50.920 Well, I wish I owned that many. um uh alas 332 00:22:51.099 --> 00:22:54.609 i i don't have the funds to uh buy everything 333 00:22:54.650 --> 00:22:59.769 that i want to buy um but god that sounds 334 00:22:59.849 --> 00:23:04.269 like that's an amazing number to own that's great. 335 00:23:05.619 --> 00:23:09.920 If the uh shipping rates rates weren't so high and 336 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:13.690 these things didn't weigh a thousand pounds i'd I don't 337 00:23:13.710 --> 00:23:15.410 know if people put them out by freight or ship, 338 00:23:15.430 --> 00:23:18.390 but maybe that sounds like a curious adventure that we 339 00:23:18.410 --> 00:23:22.029 could create related to the podcast. Let's see if the 340 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:23.940 freight sent across the seas. 341 00:23:25.230 --> 00:23:25.759 Arrives. 342 00:23:25.990 --> 00:23:29.839 I've got to ask you one of the big conceptual questions. Gemma, 343 00:23:30.220 --> 00:23:32.200 it can be annoying, but I think it's a cool question. 344 00:23:34.099 --> 00:23:34.660 What is art? 345 00:23:36.339 --> 00:23:36.410 Um. 346 00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:45.900 Oh, it's freedom. 347 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:57.720 Um.... 348 00:23:59.289 --> 00:24:04.849 It's a search for and indulging in an identity and 349 00:24:04.950 --> 00:24:08.799 finding yourself. Um.... 350 00:24:25.950 --> 00:24:30.490 Do you think the role of art has changed at all? 351 00:24:30.809 --> 00:24:36.369 The world feels different now. 2026, sometimes when I'm talking 352 00:24:36.410 --> 00:24:38.799 on the show, it's like a lot of times human 353 00:24:39.130 --> 00:24:43.900 beings create meaning out of the dangers that they're around. 354 00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:47.440 But politically and otherwise, in conversations I have with people, 355 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:51.329 things feel different. And it caused me to wonder, is 356 00:24:51.349 --> 00:24:56.299 the role of art any different now than it's been, 357 00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:59.099 or is it just doing its thing like it has? 358 00:24:59.980 --> 00:25:06.799 I think it's more important now that people have access 359 00:25:06.819 --> 00:25:16.420 to the ability for self-expression and understand art being used 360 00:25:17.230 --> 00:25:27.859 for protest. and art art is what you know teaches 361 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:33.299 you about the soul and how to have empathy and 362 00:25:36.059 --> 00:25:41.339 with what's happening in the world you know there's a 363 00:25:41.380 --> 00:25:46.349 lot more if art was a person there's a lot 364 00:25:46.390 --> 00:25:50.099 more on its shoulders now hmm It has a bigger 365 00:25:50.140 --> 00:25:54.720 job to do. And it feels like there's never been 366 00:25:54.980 --> 00:25:58.920 less resources in the way of, like what I was 367 00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:04.890 talking about, schools here do not, I mean, you know, 368 00:26:04.930 --> 00:26:07.829 there's been prime ministers we've had here in this country 369 00:26:07.869 --> 00:26:13.539 lately who just, they don't see the value in an 370 00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:19.500 art education. There's universities here where certain courses have just 371 00:26:19.579 --> 00:26:25.420 been removed and those courses are creative writing and even 372 00:26:27.220 --> 00:26:30.640 i was going to do a comics phd uh maybe 373 00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:32.180 about a year and a half back and i was 374 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.640 there's not many universities in this country that do it 375 00:26:35.269 --> 00:26:39.250 and i was contacting the ones that did and um 376 00:26:39.529 --> 00:26:45.549 the professor of a university down south i um i 377 00:26:45.609 --> 00:26:47.410 gave her a kind of outline of what i was 378 00:26:47.950 --> 00:26:51.430 planning to do and she said oh this is great 379 00:26:52.049 --> 00:26:54.630 but we're gonna have to put this on the back 380 00:26:54.690 --> 00:26:57.900 burner because i might not have a job in a 381 00:26:57.940 --> 00:27:01.720 few months and this course might not be here um 382 00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:11.920 yeah the role of art yeah it's got a lot 383 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:14.019 on its back and it's probably going to be fighting 384 00:27:14.059 --> 00:27:15.259 to survive. 385 00:27:17.380 --> 00:27:23.410 Yeah The loss of artists and creatives and seeing the 386 00:27:23.450 --> 00:27:30.829 attack upon the education system in general, higher ed. It's 387 00:27:30.869 --> 00:27:32.890 also good for somebody to tell you what's going on. 388 00:27:32.950 --> 00:27:34.799 I remember when I was applying for. 389 00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:41.779 By day, I'm a union organizer. When I was applying 390 00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:46.240 for programs, master's studies at the level of doing research, 391 00:27:46.690 --> 00:27:50.559 labor representation you know just being smart labor rep i 392 00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:53.559 contacted one of the programs that was in milwaukee wisconsin 393 00:27:53.579 --> 00:27:55.980 he was like yo ken they you know this is 394 00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:59.640 this is turning over to management sided hr program so 395 00:27:59.660 --> 00:28:01.720 don't even apply you know what i mean it's like 396 00:28:01.740 --> 00:28:05.180 yeah it's nice for somebody to like you know it's 397 00:28:05.259 --> 00:28:08.279 it's sad right like that wasn't happy news but it's 398 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:13.440 like where somebody just says hey um prognosis not good 399 00:28:13.480 --> 00:28:16.220 it doesn't mean like you shouldn't try or figure out 400 00:28:16.279 --> 00:28:18.779 your way but here's what i know from where i 401 00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:22.680